Draft Data Protection (Charges and Information) (Amendment) Regulations 2019

Margot James Excerpts

Monday 4th February 2019 General Committees

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Data Protection (Charges and Information) (Amendment) Regulations 2019.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone.

The purpose of the amendment regulations is to implement a new exemption from the annual data protection charge for elected representatives, candidates for election and Members of the House of Lords. Any individual or organisation that decides what happens with the personal data of others is considered a data controller under the Data Protection Act 2018, and that includes many of us in this room, as we have responsibility for often highly sensitive personal information about our constituents.

This House debated the Data Protection (Charges and Information) Regulations 2018 in March 2018 and they came into force on 25 May 2018. The new charging structure they introduced provides increased funding for the Information Commissioner’s Office, which supports the office’s vital work in protecting the information and privacy rights of individuals. Individuals’ personal data is increasingly becoming a commodity in its own right and it is therefore more important than ever that we have a strong and adequately resourced regulator to investigate any data controllers who fail in their data protection responsibilities.

Under the regulations, all data controllers are required to pay an annual data protection charge, unless a relevant exemption applies. There are three levels of charge: micro-organisations, including individuals, pay £40; small and medium organisations pay £60; and large organisations pay £2,900. It is not always appropriate or fair for data controllers to be subject to a charge, which is why the Government have created a number of exemptions. The exemptions ensure that we maintain a fair and flexible framework and do not impose undue financial burdens on, for example, small and medium-sized businesses.

When the 2018 regulations were debated, the Government committed to holding a public consultation on the exemptions, which included the consideration of a new exemption for elected representatives. The consultation, which took place last summer, also sought views on exempting prospective candidates for election as well as Members of the House of Lords, and the Government response was published in November 2018. The consultation exercise was a success, with the Department receiving 430 responses from the public, private and third sectors, as well as from individuals. The consultation demonstrated that there was public support for the current exemptions. It also demonstrated broad public support for the proposed new exemption for elected representatives, prospective candidates and Members of the House of Lords, and it is that exemption that is the subject of the amendment regulations before the Committee.

Dealing with personal and often highly sensitive data is central to the role of elected representatives. A vital part of our duties is to help individuals, and that inevitably involves receiving and using personal data. That is applicable not just to those of us who serve in Westminster or the devolved Parliaments, but to local representatives—councillors, police and crime commissioners—and representatives across all tiers of Government. The Government believe that imposing an annual data protection charge on individuals who are fulfilling their democratic duties to the public is wrong and could present a barrier to democracy and disincentivise people from putting themselves forward for election. Similarly, the Government do not think that prospective or nominated candidates for elected offices should be liable to a charge for the processing of personal data undertaken in support of their candidacy. If incumbents would not have to pay the charge, that would be undemocratic and unfair.

The Government also accept the value-for-money concerns raised by hon. Members during last year’s debates on introducing the charge structure. Many representatives reclaim the charge, either through the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority or, in the case of local government, from their local authority. That creates an inefficient and duplicative charge on the public purse and does not represent value for money for taxpayers.

As I have mentioned, there was support for the exemption proposed today in the consultation responses. Some responses recognised that processing personal data was an important function of elected representatives.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I presume that the Minister will come on to this point, but she keeps on talking about elected representatives, and I do not understand why Members of the House of Lords are included. They do not have responsibility for constituencies and they are not elected. Why are they included?

[Margot James]

The issue was debated and it was felt that although Lords are clearly not elected, they handle personal data in the course of their work, or they may do so if they are involved in the passage of legislation or a campaign. People may well contact them and reveal personal data in the course of the campaign, or they may reveal their views on particular legislation in which their lordships are engaged.

Some responses to the consultation recognised that processing personal data was an essential function of our work. The regulations therefore propose a new exemption from payment of the data protection charge for the processing of personal data by Members of the House of Lords; elected representatives, as defined in paragraph 23(3) of schedule 1 to the Data Protection Act 2018, where that processing is in connection with the discharge of their respective functions; and candidates —prospective and validly nominated—seeking to become elected representatives.

The proposed exemption only refers to payment of the annual data protection charge. It does not exempt elected representatives and others from adhering to data controller responsibilities under current data protection legislation. We all have a fundamental duty to uphold and protect the information rights of the individuals whom we serve. The ICO can and will still take enforcement action for non-compliance against any data controller, including those covered by exemptions from charges.

The Government have a duty to ensure that the ICO is adequately funded to deliver on its incredibly important remit. Approximately 18,000 data controllers will fall within the new exemption, which will lead to a loss of approximately £720,000 in the ICO’s total income for any given year. However, I am confident that the impact is manageable. The effects will be mitigated by an increase of approximately £18 million in the ICO’s income in 2018-19 alone, with further growth predicted for future years.

We have of course engaged with the Information Commissioner and her office on the introduction of the exemption. I can report that the ICO is content that the exemption will not impact on its ability to effectively deliver its remit. The ICO will continue to be a staunch protector of individuals’ information rights and continue to provide essential guidance and support to data controllers across the UK. I conclude by assuring the Committee that the Government are committed to maintaining a strong data protection framework, reflecting not only the needs of data controllers and individuals, but also providing a fair and flexible funding model for the important work of our regulator. That includes an exemption structure that ensures that charges are paid only where it is appropriate and proportionate.

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[Margot James]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his questions, and his support for the amendment regulations. With regard to the issues that all Members had with the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority’s guidance last year, in the immediate aftermath of the passage of the legislation, Members were rightly very concerned about the guidance that some of their staff members were receiving from officially sanctioned courses and training. For a period, there seemed to be something of a debacle around that issue, but we were able to clarify it.

I think the problem arose because the courses were designed before the legislation had fully progressed through both Houses, so they did not take account of the various amendments that we debated and passed—notably, the exemption for people in elected office to use the lawful basis of democratic engagement to process personal data. I think we have clarified that.

I was not aware, but the right hon. Gentleman has made me aware, that there was similar confusion about charges. Before we created the exemption, elected officials and all the other categories that we have discussed this afternoon were, strictly speaking, liable in law to pay a charge to the ICO. That is why we have introduced the exemption. We debated the exemption during the passage of the Bill, but we have been able to bring it into law only today.

There should be no further confusion about charges. We, as elected representatives, are data processors. Candidates are also data processors as soon as they start dealing with people’s inquiries in their constituencies or wards.

[Liam Byrne]

The Minister uses the word “candidate”, which elides two important definitions. One is that set out in the regulations:

“a person seeking to become (or remain) an elected representative”.

The second is that of an individual who is in that position and has been nominated by a political party. Most Members present think of a candidate as someone who has been validly nominated, rather than the definition in the regulations.

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[Margot James]

I was going to come to that, because the right hon. Gentleman made that point clearly in his earlier remarks. I will look into the discrepancy in the language. He has raised an important point. I agree that valid nomination is the definition that we want, and if that is not in the amendment regulations, I will look into that and write to him. I should also point out that the Information Commissioner herself is developing a code of practice for political parties regarding their use of data, and this matter may well be something that she touches on during that work.

[Liam Byrne]

The Minister has sought a test that is not in the regulations, so she is inviting the Committee to approve them using a definition that is not in the regulations, but in her speech. Will she undertake, before she concludes her remarks, to write to me and provide an assurance that she will re-present the regulations if necessary? I am happy to give them our leave this afternoon, but I am also happy for her to re-present them if she thinks the definitions need tidying up to bring them within the definition that she set out in her remarks.

[Margot James]

I will certainly write to the right hon. Gentleman. Since I last rose to speak, I have been informed that the regulations apply to both prospective and validly nominated candidates. We have kept it deliberately broad to prevent unfairness between incumbents and those starting out on the democratic process. I think I have already covered that point.

[Liam Byrne]

I am grateful to the Minister for being very generous and giving way again, but that is not good enough, because anyone could seek to stand for elected office. If she and the Information Commissioner want to avoid a very large number of people seeking those exemptions and destroying the economic base of the ICO, the Minister must act, because otherwise that is what she will get. I think she will have to re-present the regulations, but let us just get something in place now to ensure that there is no lacuna in the law. However, please introduce stronger proposals.

[Margot James]

I will certainly write to the right hon. Gentleman. If it is clear that we need to tighten the definition up, I am happy to re-present the regulations.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Margot James Excerpts

Thursday 31st January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

1. What steps his Department is taking to ensure that company directors are held responsible for nuisance calls originating from their companies.

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

The Government have taken firm action against nuisance calls, which cause untold stress and anxiety to older people and vulnerable groups in particular. In December last year, we introduced new rules. Directors of companies found to be in breach of those laws against nuisance calls can now be held personally liable and face fines of up to half a million pounds. That liability will extend to directors of companies that have gone into liquidation.

[Bob Blackman]

Like your constituents, Mr Speaker, my constituents are fed up to the back teeth of receiving scam phone calls from companies trying to get people’s savings, forcing them to get their pensions transferred and almost any other telemarketing. It is good news that the Government have taken action to set the rules so that the Information Commissioner can take action, but what are they going to do to ensure that the rules are enforced, so that company directors lose the ill-gotten gains acquired as a result of these activities?

[Margot James]

The Information Commissioner has powers to require companies to address unlawful practices and issue monetary penalties, including, now, against directors. Figures available for the past 12 months show that fines worth over £1.9 million have been issued to 23 companies. We have also increased substantially the resources available to the Information Commissioner’s Office, so she will be able to pursue more irresponsible and reckless companies.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Bearing in mind the fact that nuisance calls make up some 40% of calls to elderly residents, have the Minister and the Department given consideration to putting in place a system whereby people have to opt in to allow their number to be shared?

[Margot James]

Opting in is a potential solution. In the past 12 months, we have extended opt-in as the means of controlling calls from pensions providers and claims management companies. I trust this will make a significant difference as they are a significant proportion of the problem.

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

Why is the liability limited to only half a million pounds?

[Margot James]

It was decided, after much deliberation, that half a million pounds was a sum of money that would be a disincentive to the majority of individuals. I accept that there may be exceptions to that, but they are relatively few and far between.

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

2. If he will make it his policy to maintain free TV licences for people over the age of 75 after the end of the current scheme in 2020.

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[Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)]

11. What steps he is taking to improve broadband and mobile phone coverage in rural areas.

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

The Government have invested £1.8 billion of public money to ensure that more than 95% of premises in the UK have access to superfast broadband. UK broadband operates voucher schemes, and we are introducing a universal service obligation that will give everyone the right to a minimum speed of 10 megabits per second. These interventions are designed especially to help people in rural areas.

[Antoinette Sandbach]

A number of Eddisbury residents have been denied superfast broadband because Openreach refused to connect them to their nearest cabinet as, for historical reasons, they are connected to one many miles away. What can the Minister do to ensure that common sense applies?

[Margot James]

I understand the frustration of Eddisbury residents. Wherever possible, Openreach network planners seek to ensure that customers are connected to the nearest cabinet, but this is not always possible. Businesses and communities may apply for a voucher through one of our schemes to contribute towards the cost of reconnecting to a closer cabinet. I would be happy to facilitate a meeting between my hon. Friend and officials in my Department to establish the best way forward for Eddisbury residents.

[Tom Pursglove]

With more and more business being carried out online, superfast broadband connections are vital. What progress has been made on rolling out this technology so that rural businesses, in particular, can thrive?

[Margot James]

The Government are investing £67 million in the gigabit broadband voucher scheme, which provides small and medium-sized enterprises with vouchers worth up to £2,500. We are focusing on rolling out full fibre where there is a strong case for public investment. Our strategy is to prioritise rural areas.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Will the Minister answer the second part of the question tabled by the hon. Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach), which was about mobile phone signals? What are the Government doing about that? Large swathes of my constituency in south Wales still do not have basic mobile phone access—some of them do not have 3G access, never mind 4G. The Government really must start resolving mobile phone signal issues.

[Margot James]

I can answer the hon. Gentleman’s question by referring to the new spectrum auction, which is taking place this year, on which Ofcom is consulting. Ofcom’s duty is to manage the use of spectrum efficiently, and we expect it to deliver on our manifesto commitment to provide 95% of the country, geographically, with signal.

[Dr David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister have a word with the planning Minister to make sure that when there is a new development in a rural area, it does not cause the existing IT capability to deteriorate?

[Margot James]

Our Department’s priority is to make sure that new-build properties and developments are all built with full fibre, wherever possible. If I have not answered the rest of the hon. Gentleman’s question with regard to the impact on the rest of the technology, I would be happy to write to him.

[Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)]

10. What steps his Department is taking to ensure that the UK remains a world leader in the field of artificial intelligence.

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

The UK is a world leader in AI. Our AI and data grand challenge, as part of the industrial strategy, is a major collaboration, with up to £950 million of industry and government funding driving measures for innovation, and attracting and retaining global talent to maintain our position as a global leader in AI.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Eddie Hughes]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. What assurance can the Minister give me that work to develop AI is being co-ordinated across not just government, but the whole public sector?

[Margot James]

We have established an Office for Artificial Intelligence across the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport. Its job is to encourage strong dialogue between Departments and the wider public sector, including academia. For example, The Alan Turing Institute’s specialist public sector AI unit is involved in this process.

[Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Staffordshire University has one of the best AI robotics courses in the country. What role does the Minister see the universities that are training the AI robotics engineers of the future playing in ensuring that the AI technology of today is working?

[Margot James]

I congratulate the university in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency on its great work. The Government have invested £50 million in AI fellowships and £100 million in 1,000 new PhD places, of which I hope his local institution will be able to take advantage.

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

12. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Education on the provision of music education in schools.

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[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

Ofcom’s code on television access services sets out broadcast requirements on accessibility for the visual or hearing impaired. Since the code’s introduction, 84 UK channels have been required to provide access services. In December 2017, the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport asked Ofcom to provide recommendations on making on-demand services more accessible. This Ofcom has done, and we are considering our response.

[Marion Fellows]

Despite there being more than 2 million people with visual impairment and approximately 400,000 registered blind people in the UK, broadcasters are mandated to supply audio description for only 10% of programmes. Does the Minister agree that TV broadcasts should be enjoyed by everyone? Will she review legislation to end this discrimination?

[Margot James]

I am aware of the 10% statistic that the hon. Lady cites. The situation is kept under review, as are the requirements for on-demand providers, which could do a lot better than they are doing in respect of access for visually and hearing disabled people.

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Draft Broadcasting (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Margot James Excerpts

Tuesday 29th January 2019 General Committees

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Broadcasting (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon. The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport has worked hard to prepare for the UK’s departure from the EU and to ensure that our statute book continues to function. The draft regulations will achieve three broad aims and were laid before the House on 13 December 2018.

First, the regulations will ensure that Ofcom, as the UK’s audiovisual regulator, can continue to regulate broadcasters effectively. If the UK leaves the EU without an agreement in place, the EU’s audiovisual media services directive will no longer apply. The directive provides for freedom of reception and re-transmission for audiovisual services such as television and video on demand. It also establishes minimum content standards and provides that a service that is regulated in one member state can adhere to that country’s rules while being available across all the EU. This is known as the country of origin principle.

The audiovisual media services directive underpins several pieces of UK primary legislation, including the Communications Act 2003. We are therefore using section 8 powers in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to fix deficiencies and inoperabilities in primary legislation to ensure that Ofcom continues to have jurisdiction over services that are available to UK audiences or established in the UK. The draft regulations also ensure that cross-border services that originate from Europe under the Council of Europe convention on transfrontier television can broadcast to the UK. Services from countries that are not parties to the convention will be regulated by Ofcom.

We are not amending the current standards or restrictions placed on UK broadcasters through this instrument; they will continue as before. Should the Government wish to make any changes to the standards or restrictions in the future, that will be subject to consultation and the parliamentary process as normal.

Secondly, the draft regulations will implement the aforementioned Council of Europe treaty in UK law. The European convention on transfrontier television was signed and ratified by the UK in 1993, but it has not been implemented in the UK because the treaty provides that EU member states must apply the relevant EU legislation in their mutual relations instead. The ECTT provides for a similar system of freedom of reception and transmission between the parties to the convention. Both the AVMSD and the ECTT provide that a majority of transmission time on a television channel must be reserved for works of European origin. The AVMSD references the ECTT in its definition of European works, and that in turn safeguards the UK’s status as a producer of European works. The quota system provides a preferential market for the UK’s excellent content across other European states and has benefited our production sector enormously in the last decade.

Finally, the draft regulations will ensure that services with Irish-language content—RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TG4—will continue to be available in Northern Ireland. The UK made those commitments in the Good Friday agreement and later through the European charter for regional or minority languages. Because those services are established in Ireland, which is not a party to the ECTT, they would need to be licensed by Ofcom under the changes introduced through the draft regulations, but that would not be in the spirit of the Good Friday agreement, so the UK has decided unilaterally to exempt the services from the requirement to hold an Ofcom licence.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Before the Minister concludes, paragraph 7.3 of the explanatory memorandum states that the instrument will remedy the deficiency by amending the Communications Act 2003

“to require that any television service that is available in the UK, whatever its country of origin, is required to be licensed by Ofcom”.

How many businesses that have not required a licence from Ofcom will now have to get one?

[Margot James]

I know what the hon. Gentleman is driving at concerning the risk to businesses that transmit and will require a new licence from Ofcom. I will try to cover that in my concluding remarks, if I may.

My officials have worked closely with Ofcom to ensure that the regulatory regime remains operable and effective in the case of no deal. I believe that the draft regulations are necessary to ensure that the UK statute book works and that audiences are protected from harm.

I can now give the hon. Gentleman something of an answer to his question. Approximately 50 to 60 channels have been identified that may need a licence from Ofcom to continue to be received in the UK. They are mostly specialist minority language channels, religious channels or adult services. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

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[Margot James]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s scrutiny of what he rightly calls a complex area post Brexit. The 50 or 60 companies that will for the first time require licences from Ofcom are foreign owned, which is why there is no requirement for an impact assessment, as impact assessments are designed to consider the cost implications of changes in regulations to UK-based companies.

The hon. Gentleman rightly describes the UK’s performance in film, broadcast and television as a great success. A sector that grows at 25% more than the average rate of the economy is certainly a success. In part, that success is indeed down to the very beneficial regime, the AVMSD. As he said, to comply with the requirements of one regulator allows transmission across the entire European Union. The entire European Union’s production in that sector grows by about 18% per annum, following the introduction of the directive. The UK constitutes 21% of the entire European television market, with 1,200 out of 3,000 European channels emanating from the UK. That sector is indeed a great success.

The hon. Gentleman talked about jobs transferring, and some companies have already started to seek licences elsewhere within the European Union. Discovery Channel, NBC, Sony and Turner are all seeking licences elsewhere. Of those four channels, only Sony proposes to move its European headquarters out of the UK. The other companies are content to seek a licence elsewhere, whether in the Netherlands, Ireland or Germany, and move a number of editorial staff so that they have a meaningful presence in the country that entitles them to the country of origin broadcasting privileges. At the moment, it is not possible to assess the number of jobs that are transferring and what will constitute a meaningful presence in a market to get the benefits of the European directive, but the signs are that the majority of companies will continue to operate in the UK, with a presence outside the UK should they need one to qualify for country of origin privileges.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the advertising of junk food and other such issues, which he is right to say that we are looking at, and the question of on-demand services licensed in the EU respecting UK rules on advertising foods high in fat, sugar, salt and so on. The UK has been unable to insist on country of destination rules up until now, either under AVMSD or through country of origin services that adhere only to host country rules. However, the existing standards will continue to apply.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned Netflix and other video-on-demand providers, which are currently regulated differently. In practical terms, Netflix will still be regulated under AVMSD because, as he says, it is based in the Netherlands. The same content standards will apply after exit as now. We recognise that after exit we may need to consider a long-term and future-proofed approach to video-on-demand regulation.

I think that deals with most of the hon. Gentleman’s questions. I hope that the Committee has found the sitting informative.

[Kevin Brennan]

I also asked whether the Minister could tell us about the likelihood that countries that are party to the Council of Europe ECTT would choose to use its provisions? If she needs to write to me, I am happy for her to do that, because I realise that that is a technical question, I would be interested to have an answer. Perhaps she should to other Committee members as well, if that is acceptable to them.

Secondly, which Irish language services are exempted from licensing in the UK by the regulation? Again, if that information is not immediately to hand, I am happy for the Minister to communicate that to me and the rest of the Committee later.

[Margot James]

The hon. Gentleman is very generous. I will write to him with any further information. The ECTT guarantees similar content standards and freedom of reception between signatories, but as he will know, approximately six EU member states are not signatories to it. We will therefore not be relying on that, but I will write to him with any further technicalities associated with the ECTT. The Irish channels exempted from the requirement to seek Ofcom licences for continued transmission are the three that I mentioned: RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TG4.

I commend the regulations to the Committee. I hope that Members will join me in supporting the draft regulations. I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman has already indicated that he will do so.

Question put and agreed to.

Draft Electronic Communications and Wireless Telegraphy (Amendment etc.) (EU EXIT) Regulations 2019

Margot James Excerpts

Monday 7th January 2019 General Committees

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Electronic Communications and Wireless Telegraphy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

I wish you a happy new year, Mr Hosie; it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

The draft regulations were laid before the House on 29 November. If the UK were to leave the EU without an agreement in place, they would provide legal clarity and consistency for the regulator and telecoms operators. They are being introduced, under powers set out in section 8 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, to correct deficiencies in the statute book that result from the UK’s exiting the EU. They will make a number of amendments, mostly minor and technical, to telecoms law by removing obligations that would no longer apply if no agreement were reached with the EU.

A technical notice was published on 13 September to reassure telecoms businesses, consumers and the regulator, Ofcom, that irrespective of the outcome of negotiations between the UK and the EU, we would not expect a significant impact on how businesses operate under the telecoms regulatory framework or on how consumers of telecoms services are protected in the UK.

The draft regulations cover only corrections made to the body of telecoms regulatory law; other matters of relevance to the sector, such as legislation on roaming, spectrum or cross-border data flows are covered by separate instruments. By way of background, the domestic telecoms framework establishes key principles for the regulation of the sector: the promotion of competition between operators, the protection of consumers of telecoms services, the efficient use of radio spectrum, and the independence of the regulator, Ofcom, whose functions it outlines. These rules derive from a set of EU directives and regulations that have already been implemented in UK law, predominantly the Communications Act 2003 and the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006.

The purpose of the draft regulations is, first, to make good deficiencies such as EU procedures designed to ensure the harmonised application of the regulatory framework across the EU, and secondly to ensure that such corrections enable the continuity of the current regime in a no-deal scenario. These EU rules have been implemented in UK law since 2003 and cover a variety of matters in telecoms law.

The deficiencies that have been identified are mostly minor and technical. All the changes that the draft regulations will make have been considered on a case-by-case basis and discussed with the regulator and stakeholders where possible. An example of a minor amendment to the Communications Act is the removal of the duty for Ofcom to ensure that its

“activities contribute to the development of the European internal market.”

In some places, technical amendments are needed to ensure the continued effect of certain obligations whose interpretation currently relies on direct references to EU directives in UK law. For instance, the obligation for Ofcom to have regard to the desirability of ensuring the security and availability of telecoms networks and services when performing its duties currently has effect as a result of a form of cross-reference to the relevant EU directive, but the draft regulations will insert it specifically into the Communications Act to ensure continuity from the current regime.

With respect to the UK’s compliance with the EU regulatory system, the draft regulations will remove the requirement for Ofcom to notify, consult or provide information to the European Commission and other EU bodies. The information requested by EU bodies is generally provided to enable the European Commission to monitor compliance with the EU framework or to ensure harmonisation of measures across the EU. However, sharing information with the Commission, with EU bodies or with other regulators in the EU may well remain beneficial to the UK after exit. It can help to foster co-operation on regulatory matters. That is why the instrument makes amendments to make it clear that Ofcom may notify or share information, where it considers it appropriate, for matters such as security breaches affecting communication networks or services. In such cases, however, Ofcom will continue to be subject to statutory duties relating to confidentiality and data protection.

Certain deficiencies were identified in provisions relating to the making of universal service orders. It is important to make the preliminary point that the corrections do not affect the services that are required to be made universally available across the UK under the existing universal service orders. An amendment is made to remove the requirement to comply with EU obligations when the Secretary of State makes future universal service orders. That incidentally will provide more flexibility to consider what service provision is most appropriate for the UK.

As is currently the case, the Communications Act will continue to require that consultation takes place before a universal service order is made, providing an opportunity for representations to be made about the requirements or form of any new universal service obligation. Ofcom has put in place various rules to ensure the protection of consumers of telecoms services, some of which implement specific requirements of EU law. The instrument makes provision to ensure that Ofcom can continue to maintain consumer protection measures that are currently required under the relevant EU directive. That will ensure that current levels of consumer protection are maintained.

Moving on to corrections relating to the regulation of communication providers with significant market power, SMP regulation is based on competition law principles, and enables Ofcom to impose regulatory remedies on providers with significant market power to address competition issues in a particular market. Under the EU regulatory framework, SMP is equivalent to the concept of dominance in EU competition law. The Communications Act provides that SMP is to be construed in accordance with the requirements of the EU regulatory framework. The instrument amends the Communications Act to ensure that, after exit, references to dominance in a market are to be construed consistently with the concept of market dominance in the Competition Act 1998. That approach aims to ensure that there will be a single concept of market dominance across domestic competition law and regulation of the telecoms sector post-exit.

[Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)]

On the issue of significant market power, did Ofcom have those powers previously, or is it just because we are leaving the EU that we have to implement them? Did Ofcom have the power to control market dominance before this process, or will the instrument put in place the opportunity for us to do that?

[Margot James]

I reassure my hon. Friend that Ofcom has those powers, and the purpose of the statutory instrument is to ensure that Ofcom is in a position to continue in the exercise of them.

With regard to Ofcom’s powers to make regulations when spectrum licences are required, and to attach conditions to those licences, the instrument removes requirements that derive from the EU authorisation directive while maintaining an obligation on Ofcom to ensure that licences and conditions are objectively justifiable, non-discriminatory, proportionate and transparent.

The body of telecoms law includes directly applicable EU regulations that require correction. The instrument revokes the regulations that provide for financial assistance for the EU Connecting Europe Facility to support projects in the field of trans-European networks in the area of telecoms infrastructure. That includes funding to install wi-fi equipment in public spaces. In the unlikely event of a no-deal exit, UK organisations will no longer be eligible for such funding. If the EU stops making payments to UK organisations delivering CEF-funded projects after exit, the Government guarantee will support UK organisations to meet their obligations, including continued project delivery until completion. This Government guarantee will also cover successful applications that have been submitted to the EU before exit day, but with an award made after exit.

This instrument makes minor corrections to the eCall legislation, so that it will continue to operate effectively after exit. eCall is an initiative established by the European Commission as part of the intelligent transport system project. It enables a mobile transmission to be sent to emergency services by a vehicle when it is involved in an accident. The eCall legislation refers in parts to technical standards, and regulation 5 of this instrument confers a legislative power on the Secretary of State to make provision to replace the standards listed, which will enable the standards to be updated should that be necessary to ensure continued public safety and effective operation of the eCall technology.

Finally, this instrument revokes the regulation establishing the Body of European Regulators for Electronic Communications, the body of national regulators from EU member states. Ofcom is currently a member. The main purpose of BEREC is to ensure the consistent implementation of the EU regulatory framework; BEREC’s membership is therefore limited to the regulators of EU member states. Ofcom will no longer be a member after exit, but as the UK will no longer be part of the EU regulatory framework, this will have no significant effect on regulation in the UK. However the Government recognise that Ofcom would benefit from the continued exchange of best practice with other regulators, and from the exchange of information about telecoms matters more generally. In this respect, we should note that the new BEREC regulation, in force since 20 December 2018, provides that BEREC should be open to the participation of regulators of third countries, where those countries have entered into agreements with the EU to that effect.

Ofcom intends to seek observer status after the UK has exited the EU, in the way in which other regulators of states in the European economic area, such as Norway and EU candidate countries, currently participate. Although observer status would remove Ofcom’s right to vote, the likely impact would be fairly minimal, as this is more of a co-operative forum.

In conclusion, the Government are committed to ensuring that the regulation of telecoms markets remains functional post-exit, and these regulations will help to achieve that by making minor and technical changes to existing legislation. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margot James]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his questions and remarks. I will reassure him on the question of adequacy, as far as I am able. In the event of a deal, the Commission has agreed to start adequacy discussions at the beginning of the transition period, which will last two years. He made the point that, once the Commission starts adequacy discussions, they usually take an average of two years. I am optimistic that we will have concluded adequacy decisions and got an adequacy agreement by the end of the implementation period.

In the event of no deal, that is less easy to predict. I have no doubt that the Commission will wish to start adequacy discussions if the country leaves without a deal. The right hon. Gentleman and I agree—I hope, anyway—that that is unlikely, but it is possible, hence the need for this statutory instrument. In that event, it is harder to predict, but the Government’s absolute intention is to secure an adequacy agreement. We will co-operate with the Commission as soon as it initiates discussions.

[Liam Byrne]

I want to make sure I have understood this correctly. Is the Minister saying to the Committee that, in the event of no deal, it is harder to predict whether an adequacy agreement will come into force?

[Margot James]

No. I am sorry if I gave that impression. It is harder to predict the timing of the adequacy decision. I am confident that we will get an adequacy decision whether we leave with a deal or with no deal, but I feel more confident that it will be a swift process if it takes place in the context of our implementation period and our discussions about the future framework, in line with the political declaration. There is a framework, which is highly beneficial to the swift agreement of an adequacy decision if we leave with the deal that the Prime Minister has negotiated. I urge the right hon. Gentleman to support that deal, if he is so concerned about the timing of an adequacy decision.

Let me move on to supervisory powers. The draft regulations will not introduce new powers; they will merely facilitate the smooth operation of existing powers by the regulator in accordance with UK legislation, without the need to consult the EU or to satisfy, report to or consult the Commission. They will allow the regulator to pursue its existing powers without needing to do things that are required by our membership of the European Union but that will no longer apply once we have left.

I absolutely concur with the right hon. Gentleman and reassure him that the draft regulations are not a race to the bottom in terms of consumer protection, regulation of the telecoms industry or support for the regulator. We are introducing them because we wish to maintain existing powers, rights and protections. The UK has a robust telecoms regulatory framework; the draft regulations will make no changes to that regime, beyond correcting deficiencies in retained EU law. I think we can all agree that it is essential for the regulations to be in place in the unlikely event of a no-deal outcome.

Question put and agreed to.

Leaving the EU: UK Orchestras

Margot James Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2018 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) on securing a debate on this very important matter. I thank him for advance sight of his speech and questions.

The Government take extremely seriously our responsibility to champion and support our world-leading orchestras, which connect us to more than 400 years of creativity from across the world—particularly within Europe. I agree profoundly with the right hon. Gentleman about the value, success and soft power that our orchestras represent. They help to educate young people and contribute significantly to our cultural life and economy. We take none of that for granted, and we have a range of policies that support our orchestras.

In England, the Arts Council invests more than £25 million a year in orchestras, and related classical music organisations and activities, through the national portfolio. In 2017-18, Arts Council England awarded more than £2.8 million to a range of classical music projects across England through its lottery-funded Grants for the Arts programme, and more than £10 million through strategic funding programmes.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about new tax reliefs. Although that is a matter for the Treasury, I will comment on it as much as I can. The Government keep all tax reliefs under review. Any proposal for a new tax relief must be assessed for its effectiveness, wider economic impact, ability to stand up against abuse, and cost to the Exchequer. I am pleased to note that the orchestra tax relief, available across the UK, was introduced in April 2016. The most recent statistics for the relief show that, since its introduction, 205 productions have benefited and have received £6.6 million-worth of support from the Government.

On other future funding, the spending review will set the first funding envelope after the UK has left the EU, and will look at all Government spending. It gives us the opportunity to look at UK priorities and argue significantly for the hugely important area of culture, including, of course, performing orchestras. The Government have made clear our intention to undertake that spending review in 2019. Leading up to the review, we will continue to listen to the concerns of the sector, and of course we will consider any spending in the light of implications following our exit from the European Union.

The UK Government value the UK’s thriving cultural landscape and have listened to the sector’s concerns about the European market. We will continue to be in close dialogue with the sector, and we will seek a far-reaching relationship on culture and education with the European Union that is mutual beneficial for the UK, the EU, our cultural communities, including orchestras, and our citizens.

Some leading classical musicians have expressed concerns about the future as we leave the European Union, and those concerns have been represented in this debate. I assure them that their voices are being heard. My Department is working hard to ensure that Departments across Whitehall understand what our orchestras need from our future relationship with the EU, and what they need in terms of contingency planning in the unlikely case that we leave the EU without a deal. In either case, we are confident that the creativity and resilience of our orchestras will continue and thrive.

Right hon. and hon. Members have touched on a range of challenges for orchestras, and I will address them in turn. It is tragic that some orchestras have lost bookings on account of Brexit, as we heard from the right hon. Gentleman and my right hon. Friend the Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey). The movement of people is important. A key challenge for our orchestras is how the rules about the movement of people might change. Those concerns have been raised, and I want to address some of them, particularly in the light of the White Paper, which was published this afternoon.

The White Paper is an invitation to interested parties to express their views. I trust that the right hon. Member for East Ham will make his views on the issues pertaining to orchestras apparent during the consultation inspired by the White Paper. In the future, it will be for the UK Government and Parliament to determine the domestic immigration rules that will apply. The Immigration Bill will bring migration from the EU under UK law, enabling us to set out future immigration system in domestic legislation. The movement of people is clearly important to the orchestras of our country. We will continue to work with the Arts Council, and we will look at the proposals it is making for visa waivers in this sector.

In the immigration White Paper, we set out further detail on the system, taking into account the recommendations of the Migration Advisory Committee’s report on European Economic Area migration in the UK. The future system will focus on high skills and welcoming talented and hard-working individuals who will support the UK’s economy, enabling employers to compete on the world stage. The Home Office is launching a year-long engagement to enable business and other stakeholders, such as orchestras, to shape the final details of policy and process.

The right hon. Gentleman asked whether my colleague, the Minister for Arts, Heritage and Tourism, would meet with the Association of British Orchestras. Following the publication of the White Paper, he will certainly be able to meet the right hon. Gentleman and the Association of British Orchestras to discuss this matter in greater detail.

Orchestras have expressed concern about the salary threshold. Indeed, the right hon. Gentleman mentioned the Migration Advisory Committee threshold of £30,000. We will discuss with businesses what a suitable salary threshold should be. If a skilled job is considered to be in shortage in the UK, a lower salary threshold is likely to apply. The right hon. Gentleman mentioned that skills do not necessarily relate to salary, and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is well aware of that.

Sir Christopher, should I allow a little time for the right hon. Gentleman to sum up?

[Sir Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

If you allow any time, it will be wasted. Under the rules, there is no right of reply for a Member introducing a short debate.

[Margot James]

I apologise. I am never clear on that point.

As hon. Members pointed out, it is not only the movement of people, but the movement of objects, that is important to orchestras. They move a huge amount of equipment around with them, much of it valuable, historic or both. They work on tight timeframes and are under pressure not to separate musicians from their instruments for long periods. I am aware that some musicians are worried that new customs processes will lead to increased cost, delay and inconvenience, which could disrupt touring schedules.

Hon. Members will know that the Government’s plan for EU exit aims to preserve frictionless trade for the majority of UK goods. Furthermore, in the political declaration, the UK and the EU recognise the importance of the temporary movement of objects and equipment in enabling co-operation in the cultural and education sectors. That, of course, includes musical instruments.

Orchestras are also concerned about customs processes in the unlikely case that the UK leaves the European Union without a deal. I hope hon. Members will understand that the issue of customs processes in the event of no deal is a broader, but no less important, issue than the one before us today. My Department has been working closely with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to understand the pressures on our orchestras to ensure that we are prepared and that communications reach the right people and contain the information they need to allow orchestras are prepare.

Another challenge that was raised is the importance and value of EU funding programmes to the UK’s cultural sector, including orchestras. Creative Europe provides support for international cultural relations and creative projects. Collaboration is vital for culture to thrive. Creative Europe has demonstrated that international partnership enables the cultural sectors to share expertise, build relationships and produce exemplary creative works.

As the Prime Minister made clear in the White Paper on our future relationship with the EU, the UK wants to build on our long history of working together to continue to produce and promote excellent culture.

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).

Digital Economy

Margot James Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

I beg to move,

That the draft Online Pornography (Commercial Basis) Regulations 2018, which were laid before this House on 10 October, be approved.

[Mr Speaker]

With this we shall consider the following motions:

That the draft British Board of Film Classification Guidance on Ancillary Service Providers 2018, which was laid before this House on 25 October, be approved.

That the draft British Board of Film Classification Guidance on Age-verification Arrangements 2018, which was laid before this House on 25 October, be approved.

[Margot James]

The Digital Economy Act 2017 introduced the requirement for commercial providers of online pornography to have robust age-verification controls in place to prevent children and young people under 18 from accessing pornographic material that is made available on a commercial basis.

Section 14(2) of the Act states:

“The Secretary of State may make regulations specifying…circumstances in which material is or is not to be regarded as made available on a commercial basis.”

So, in a sense, this is a small part of the legislative jigsaw needed to implement age verification. It is the last piece. I therefore ask that the draft Online Pornography (Commercial Basis) Regulations 2018, and the two pieces of guidance published by the British Board of Film Classification on age-verification arrangements and on ancillary services providers be approved.

I should bring to the attention of the House the concerns of the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments and the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which I thank for their work. I will address their concerns in a moment but, before coming to the specific points related to this debate, I remind the House why we are introducing this requirement.

In the offline world, there are strict rules to deter children from accessing adult content. A large amount of pornography is available on the internet in the UK, often for free, with little or no protections to ensure that those accessing the content are old enough to do so.

[Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con)]

This legislation is long overdue and I really welcome it. I ask the House to indulge me for a second. A parent came to my surgery soon after I was elected to discuss how their child had suffered a sexual assault in a school. During the conversation, the mother mentioned to me, at some length, the ready availability of online pornography at school, how this was a motivating factor—or at least a contributory factor—to the assault and the fact that it just damages our relationships with one another, particularly in young minds.

[Margot James]

I thank my hon. Friend for that heartfelt intervention. I am very sorry indeed to hear about that case. There is great validity to the concerns the mother expressed to him.

[Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)]

In the Women and Equalities Committee, as a response to the awfulness of the #MeToo campaign, we took evidence that showed that the consumption of pornography is associated with higher levels of violence, including rape and sexual harassment. I therefore thank my hon. Friend for introducing age verification and for making sure that it works.

Public places are not age specific, and the Committee also suggested that viewing online pornography in public places, such as on buses and trains, should be restricted. Do the Government intend to go further by introducing a restriction on viewing online pornography in public places?

[Margot James]

I must congratulate the Women and Equalities Committee on its extremely valuable work in this area. It exposed some very concerning issues and backed up its recommendations with evidence. Although the regulations do not touch on the viewing of pornography in public places, we have heard the recommendation of the Committee and what my hon. Friend has just said about that problem. That might be an indirect way of making such material accessible to the very children and young people whom the regulations are designed to help.

[Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)]

I understand that, in 2015, Ofcom said that that was the pivotal time when we switched from people viewing the internet on desktop computers to more people viewing it on handheld devices such as smartphones. The potential for people to view such things inadvertently in public, which has been identified by my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford), has therefore increased dramatically, as has the potential for children to be exposed to it.

[Margot James]

I follow my hon. Friend’s logic. That was the conclusion that Ofcom reached. It is definitely worth considering the recommendation that he and my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) have made on reviewing the law on viewing pornography in a public place.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sure that there is consensus across the House about protecting young people under the age of 18 from illegal or inappropriate material. What steps are being taken to ensure that, in any of the regulations or any of the wider efforts the Government are taking, we do not accidentally prevent young people from accessing age-appropriate material about sex and relationships education? I am aware of material for young lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people on YouTube and other platforms that has been erroneously caught up in age filters and other restrictions. That prevents young people from finding out in a healthy and age-appropriate way about their sexuality and the key things they need to understand as they are growing up.

[Margot James]

The hon. Gentleman makes some very good points. I am aware of some of the cases to which he refers. When I explain the detail of the regulations, it should reassure him that we are seeking to catch the commercial provision of pornography on sites where at least two thirds of the content is of an adult nature. I think that should allay his concerns. However, we should keep the issue he raises closely under review.

[Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)]

I very much welcome today’s debate and the Government’s proposals, but parents who are listening to this debate may go away with the impression that everything on the internet will be subject to an age barrier. Will the Minister be clearer, for the benefit of parents who are listening, that the regulations will not include social media? What is she doing to ensure that social media platforms do not inadvertently become the way that young people under the age of 15 access pornography in the future?

[Margot James]

I welcome the intervention from the Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee. Let me clarify here and now that the regulations are a very important step forward in preventing children from viewing pornography online. In particular, we are closing the loophole whereby children can stumble across such material inadvertently. However, my right hon. Friend is right that the regulations do not extend to social media platforms that contain pornographic content that is a relatively small minority of the content that they provide. This is not a foolproof guarantee that young people and children will not be exposed to pornography online. It is a significant step forward, but there is, as my right hon. Friend points out, the potential for people to access material on social media platforms, which do not fall within the scope of the regulations unless more than a third of their average content is pornographic.

[Rachel Maclean (Redditch) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Margot James]

I am sorry that I am taking a long time to answer my right hon. Friend’s point, but it is an important one. I will finish with the last intervention before I take more interventions.

The Government are keeping a weather eye on the availability of pornography on social media platforms. I shall talk more about that, but I reassure my right hon. Friend that we will introduce further measures. My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, who is in the Chamber, has a duty to report back on the impact of the regulations 12 to 18 months after their commencement and he will look at just the issues my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) has raised. I will make a little progress before taking further interventions.

There is no doubt, going back to the work of the Women and Equalities Committee, that the large amount of pornography available on the internet in the UK, often for free and with no protections to ensure that those accessing it are old enough to do so, is leading to a change in the way that young people understand healthy relationships, sex and consent. I know that that is a major issue of concern to everybody across the House. A 2016 report commissioned by the Children’s Commissioner and the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children made that absolutely clear. More than half of the children sampled had been exposed to online pornography by the age of 15, nearly half of the boys thought that the pornography they had seen was realistic, and just under half wished to emulate what they had seen.

The introduction of a requirement for age-verification controls is a necessary step in tackling those issues and it contributes towards our commitment to make the UK a safer place to be online, particularly for children and young people.

[Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that, when children have such experiences at a very young age, it can affect them for the whole of their life and have a big impact on their relationships as they grow up and get married? Indeed, it can affect not just their relationship with their partner, but their relationships with their children as well.

[Margot James]

I very much agree that, if children see hardcore pornography when they are too young to understand it, it can have long-lasting and very negative impacts on their development and future relationships. My hon. Friend is absolutely right.

The draft Online Pornography (Commercial Basis) Regulations set out the basis on which pornographic material is to be regarded as

“made available on a commercial basis”.

The regulations cover material on websites and applications that charge for access. They also cover circumstances where a person makes available pornographic material on the internet for free, but then receives payment or reward for doing so, for example, through advertising revenue.

It was clear from the debates in this House during the passage of the Digital Economy Act that it was not Parliament’s intention that social media sites on which pornography is only a small part of the overall content should be required to have age verification.

[Neil O’Brien]

As a member of the Science and Technology Committee, I have been involved in our ongoing report on smartphones, social media and young people’s mental health. Absolutely central to that report is the whole issue of age verification for access not just to pornography but to gambling, violent material and things like that. Does the Minister share my strong view that many large social media companies—some of the world’s largest companies, with almost unbelievably sophisticated granular data on their users—have to be raising their game? In the run-up to the online harms White Paper, which goes beyond what we are talking about today, companies in the industry absolutely need to raise their game, because they are allowing their own terms of use to be violated, and they know that is happening but are doing nothing about it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margot James]

My hon. Friend raises some important points. We do have rising expectations of social media platforms; we expect at the very least that they enforce their own terms and conditions. Some enforce to a greater extent than others, especially in terms of this particular issue. Facebook takes down posts that include nudity, which is its way of enforcing its own terms and conditions, but what about the private groups that operate on that platform? There is much more to be done. We expect social media platforms to uphold their terms and conditions across their platforms, not just in the public-facing parts of it.

[Rachel Maclean]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech dealing with this critical issue that any of us who are responsible for young people will feel very strongly about. Does she agree that there is a rapid evolution in the technology sector? She talked specifically about pornographic sites that charge for access. Will she say a bit more about how she would deal with those sites that offer slightly different business models—for example, the premium model, where it is free to go on to the site and it then captures people’s details and makes them pay a subscription fee later? I am sure that she has considered that as part of her response, so I would be grateful if she could update us on it.

[Margot James]

These regulations will apply even to pornographic sites that make their initial offer free of charge. The rule is that, if a site offering a service where more than 30% of its content is pornographic does so on a commercial basis—which can be free of charge if it is backed up by advertising revenues—it comes within the scope of these regulations, whether or not it provides those services free of charge. These draft regulations will capture such sites as are of concern to my hon. Friend.

[Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)]

I chaired the UK Council for Child Internet Safety for two and half years. While I applaud the regulations that the Minister is bringing forward, this is scratching the surface. The problem is that these days very few young people pay to access hardcore pornography on the internet. Unless we have some form of verifiable, age-based permission such as the use of a credit card—even if that is not charged for—we are not going to prevent this from happening. Actually, the much bigger problem is on social media, with sexting and everything else that goes on. Social media companies, including ones that we have had in front of the Home Affairs Committee, are turning a blind eye to the hosting of exceedingly dangerous material that young people are accessing and normalising, and then they are transferring that to their relationships during impressionable years. We really have got to do so much better than this.

[Margot James]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on the work that he has done while chairing that important body, the UK Council for Child Internet Safety. I have already made clear in my answer to my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke, the Chair of the Select Committee, that we do recognise that these regulations are a first step. Although we have high expectations of what they can achieve, we are fully aware that they do not go as far as to be able to satisfy the vast majority of our concerns where social media platforms are concerned, where the majority of content is not pornographic.

I would like to reassure the House, however, that I do believe that these regulations will be more effective than my hon. Friend fears, because they will cover sites that make pornography available free of charge. As he rightly points out, the majority of young people access pornography without paying for the service. However, if they access it from a site that is predominantly pornographic and is offering a pornographic service on a commercial basis, then, whether it is free of charge or paid for, the regulations will capture both. I would like to reassure him that these regulations will bring into scope the sites about which he is concerned that currently provide these services free of charge.

My hon. Friend will also be reassured to know, when I go on to explain a little more about the actual process of age verification, that it is not simply a matter of being able to offer a credit card. The rigour of age verification provision will be stricter than that. That will also help to counter the growing trend of young people accessing pornography before they attain the age of 18.

[Stephen Doughty]

Further to the comments by my colleague on the Home Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton), we have raised a series of concerns with social media companies and other technology companies about access to inappropriate, violent or extreme content, as well as the content that we are discussing today. Will the Minister and the Government look much more closely at peer-to-peer sharing sites like Snapchat and closed messaging groups on Instagram, Kik and other messaging sites? It is my understanding, from speaking to a lot of young people in my constituency, that that is where a lot of this content is. No age verification goes on, and it is simply done in encrypted sharing. Some of it is self-generated content where people are doing revenge porn, sexting and sharing types of images that not only constitute committing an offence because they are creating child pornography, but are well outside the scope of what one would find on a commercial site. Will she reassure us that serious work will be undertaken to look at that area?

[Margot James]

I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that serious work is being undertaken as we speak, as we prepare the online harms White Paper. We are looking at encryption within the context of that White Paper. He will appreciate the difficulties of privacy versus the public need to reduce the exposure of young people to pornographic material. We are looking at this very seriously. We will be bringing forward the White Paper in the new year and will welcome his input on that.

We have set a threshold of 30% to ensure proportionality where material is made available free of charge. Thus there is an exemption for people making available pornographic content on a website where it makes up under one third of that content. This will ensure that websites that do not derive a significant proportion of their overall commercial benefit from pornography are not regarded in these regulations as commercial pornographic websites. Nevertheless, should a website or app be marketed as making available pornographic material, a person making such material available on that site will be considered to be making it available on a commercial basis even if it constitutes less than one third of the total. This is a proportionate way to introduce the new policy.

I am confident that these measures represent the most effective way to commence this important new policy, but our Department will of course keep it under review. Indeed, as I said, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be reporting on the regulatory framework within 12 to 18 months of commencement of the regulations. In addition, as I just mentioned in response to the hon. Gentleman, the forthcoming online harms White Paper will provide us with another opportunity to review the wider context of this policy.

In conjunction, we have laid two pieces of British Board of Film Classification guidance—first, on age verification arrangements and, secondly, on ancillary service providers. The first piece of guidance sets out the criteria by which the BBFC will assess whether a person has met the requirements of section 14 of the Digital Economy Act 2017 to ensure that pornographic material is not normally accessible to those under 18. The criteria mandate four things: an effective control mechanism at the point of access to verify that a user is aged 18 or over; strict requirements on age verification data; a requirement to ensure that revisits to a site do not permit the bypassing of age verification controls; and the prevention of non-human operators—for example, bots—from exercising the age-verification regime.

[Rachel Maclean]

Does the Minister believe that the BBFC has sufficient resources and skills to do what the regulations require of it?

[Margot James]

I would like to reassure my hon. Friend that I certainly think it has the experience, expertise and resources to undertake this role. It has more than a century of experience in the control of film content. It has additional resources and moneys with which it can hold to account age-verification providers and, most importantly, the websites that are providing the pornographic content.

In addition to the criteria that the BBFC will use to verify the effective control of age-verification arrangements, it has provided typical examples of features that it would regard as non-compliant in the arena of age verification.

The second piece of guidance provides a non-exhaustive list of ancillary service providers that the BBFC will consider. That list is not exhaustive, to ensure that the policy remains flexible to future developments. The BBFC has published draft versions of both pieces of guidance and has run a public consultation for four weeks on their content. The draft guidance laid before the House takes account of comments received from affected companies, age-verification providers and other interested parties.

I have been clear that age verification is not a silver bullet, and we know that what we are doing is difficult. Indeed, we are the first country in the world to introduce such a measure. I am aware of the concerns expressed by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments about the drafting of the Online Pornography (Commercial Basis) Regulations 2018. I have considered its concerns carefully, and we are grateful for its work, but we do not believe that the variation in the legislation between the terms “met” and “applied” will be difficult for a court to interpret.

The Committee expressed concerns about the content threshold because it anticipates difficulty with the application and interpretation of the regulation. As I have said, the regulation will not apply in a case where it is reasonable for the age-verification regulator to assume that pornographic material makes up less than one third of the content of such a site. As stated in the BBFC guidance, the BBFC will seek to engage and work with a person or company who may be in contravention of the requirement in advance of commencing enforcement action.

I am aware that the Committee has also drawn the special attention of both Houses to these draft pieces of guidance because, in its view, they fail to contain the guidance required by section 25(1) of the 2017 Act and contain material that should not have been included. Section 3, paragraph 5, of the age-verification guidance sets out the criteria that the regulator will treat as complying with age verification. The guidance goes on in paragraph 6 to give examples of features that, in isolation, do not comply with the age-verification requirements. That approach ensures fairness and is product-neutral. Rather than recommending a particular solution, the guidance sets out principles that will encourage further innovation.

[Neil O’Brien]

I wonder whether I could press the Minister on the robustness of age verification, which is of interest to the wider debate. It seems that certain types of checks, such as those that run off a credit card, are extremely robust, but younger people do not have access to credit cards, so that becomes more difficult, although we can layer up different types of information to give a best guess. Of the long list of checks that she has mentioned, which is favourable in terms of robustness and quality?

[Margot James]

Age-verification providers will have to demonstrate that they have a foolproof system of identifying whether somebody is aged 18 or over. The sort of effective control mechanisms they are considering are credit cards, passports and driving licences—items that a lot of 18-year-olds will have at least one of. My hon. Friend rightly points out that a great deal of work is going on to improve age-verification systems. That is precisely because the sorts of items I have mentioned are, in general, only held by people who are aged 18 or over—with the exception of driving licences, which can be obtained at the age of 17.

For those reasons, it is much more difficult to ascertain how we can require age verification in other areas. For example, in the Data Protection Bill, we set the qualifying age at which someone can consent to a contract with a social media platform as 13, but it is very difficult for someone to prove that they are 13, because those items are normally held by people aged 18 or over.

[Eddie Hughes]

Should I be concerned by reports that a company called AgeID, which operates the ID verification system for Pornhub and YouPorn, is considering the idea of “porn passes”, which could be bought from a newsagent and would allow people to access porn online anonymously, so that they do not have the embarrassment of their credit cards being recorded against such a site?

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

The Minister is being very generous in taking a great many interventions, and I appreciate that she is giving thorough answers to the questions she is being asked, but we only have 58 minutes left, and many Members want to take part in the debate. She might want to bear that in mind.

[Margot James]

Thank you for your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker, which I will take on board, but I will just deal with the point raised by my hon. Friend. The measures that will be acceptable to the BBFC will be of greater rigour than the examples he gave. I hope that I will be able to satisfy his concerns, but I may write to him, rather than dwell at length on the important issue he raises.

I now turn to the guidance on ancillary service providers. Paragraph 3 of section 3 provides a non-exhaustive list of classes of providers that the age-verification regulator may consider as within scope. However, to ensure that this policy remains flexible for the benefit of future developments, it is necessary that this is a non-exhaustive list. Where new classes of ancillary services appear in the future, the BBFC’s guidance explains the process by which these services will be informed.

The guidance includes additional material, as this is a new policy and the regulator considered that it was important for its stakeholders that the guidance set out the wider context in which the age-verification regulator will carry out regulation. This includes valuable guidance on matters such as the BBFC’s approach, powers and material on data protection.

We are aware of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s special interest report. The Committee raised similar concerns to the JCSI—for example, on the content threshold—and the responses to the SLSC’s concerns on these points are the same as the responses we have given to the JCSI reports. However, the SLSC also suggested that the House may want to ask what action the Government will take to tackle pornographic material available on a non-commercial basis. We have already debated these issues during my remarks.

I appreciate that pornography is of course made available by means not covered by the regulations. We have already covered those issues, but they were also the subject of extensive discussion during the passage of the Digital Economy Bill. In particular, concern has been expressed about social media platforms. As I have said in response to hon. Members’ interventions, we expect those platforms to enforce their own terms and conditions and to protect children from harmful content. Indeed, the Government have been clear that online platforms must do more to protect users from such harmful content.

[Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)]

How do the Government intend to ensure that these regulations can keep up with technological advancements and developments within these markets so that the legislation and regulations this place passes are not obsolete by the time they come into force?

[Margot James]

My hon. Friend raises a very important point. The principal way in which we are future-proofing these regulations is by making the specificities that the BBFC operates by and the guidance sufficiently flexible and not too prescriptive. As technology advances, it will be able to adapt such regulations and guidance without the need for this House continually to bring in further legislation.

Before I conclude, I would add in response to my hon. Friend that, as I have said, this is not a silver bullet and it is only one of the measures we are taking. We are working on the online harms Bill to tackle issues and concerns in the area of the provision of pornography that are not captured by these regulations. I trust that my hon. Friend is reassured.

As I have said, I recognise that the age-verification regulations are not a panacea, but I am proud that we are leading the way internationally in the action we are taking to give far more protection to children and young people than is currently available.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Margot James]

With the leave of the House, Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Liam Byrne) for his support for the regulations. I agree with him that—as I said in my opening remarks—they are a contribution to the greater security of children and young people online, but, as I think the whole House agrees, they are not a total solution.

The right hon. Gentleman asked what further steps we were taking, and asked about their timings. I reassure him that the Secretary of State will review the performance of the regulations within 12 to 18 months of their taking effect. As part of that review, and in response to the deep concern that has been expressed by many Members in all parts of the House this evening about the extreme nature of pornography, we will look at the fact that this being behind age verification should not be a licence for the production of that sort of material. The Secretary of State will also be empowered to reconsider the definitions of extreme pornography. I thank him for remaining in the Chamber throughout the debate. I am sure that he has noted the will of the House that we revisit those definitions, which do not appear to me to be fit for purpose.

A White Paper on online harms will be published early in the new year. The right hon. Gentleman raised the issue of the desirability of placing a duty of care on social media platforms, which are relevant to the debate and which have a far wider impact than the issue that we are debating tonight. I reassure him that we are considering a duty of care as part of the development of that White Paper. I look forward to his further contributions on how to make such a duty effective in this context.

My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) mentioned the risk that pornographic sites would flood themselves with non-pornographic material in order to evade the scope of the regulations. We have considered that. My Department and the British Board of Film Classification have held discussions with commercial providers of pornography sites, and we have encountered a great willingness on the part of those operators to fall in line with age-verification measures. Indeed, they are setting up arrangements to do so. We consider it unlikely that sites will go to the trouble of being flooded with non-pornographic content but, if we turn out to be over-optimistic on that front, my hon. Friend can be assured that that would weigh heavily with the Secretary of State when he reviews the operation of the regulations.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller), the Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee, mentioned the Lords amendments that had facilitated the availability of extreme pornography involving violence, and even involving children, if generated via technology as opposed to human actors. That strikes me as a grotesque loophole. I agree with my right hon. Friend and others that Baroness Howe’s Bill, which seeks to render this activity illegal, is worthy of our consideration, and I commit the Government to considering it as a potential means of combating that sickening loophole.

The hon. Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), who has huge expertise in this area, mentioned the predominantly coercive, violent and gendered basis of the grotesque abuse of women in much of the content, and the effect that that could have on the minds of young people as they develop into adulthood. Let me reassure her, as I reassured my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke, that we will definitely consider her comments. She made a number of worthwhile suggestions, and I will write to her, as time does not permit me to go through all of them in turn.

I am sure I was not alone in my surprise when the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) declared that the Liberal Democrats would oppose the regulations, on the broad basis that they do not go far enough. I think that the rest of the House agrees that they do not yet go far enough in tackling the problem before us. She must agree, however, that certain aspects of this are very difficult. Tackling pornographic content on a site like Twitter is very difficult, because to introduce a blanket ban on anyone under the age of 18 accessing a social media platform of that nature would have serious unintended consequences. We need to get these matters right and, rather than the Liberal Democrats just opposing these measures, they would do well to contribute to the debate. I urge the hon. Lady’s party to reconsider its position, which if unchanged will lead it into disrepute.

I am grateful for the comments from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). He reminds me of my party’s manifesto commitment to end the access of children and young people to pornography sites. I agree with him that we need to go further, but I commend these regulations to the House as a very good start and I thank hon. Members for their support this evening.

Telecommunications Council

Margot James Excerpts

Thursday 13th December 2018 Written Statements

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

The telecommunications formation of the Transport, Telecommunications and Energy Council took place in Brussels on 4 December 2018. The deputy permanent representative to the EU, Katrina Williams, represented the UK.

The Council began with the formal adoption of legislative “A” points, during which the Council adopted the European electronic communications code (EECC) and body of European regulators of electronic communications (BEREC) proposals. The Austrian presidency then secured a partial general approach on the digital Europe programme, which the UK supported. A progress report and policy debate then took place on the European cybersecurity industrial, technology and research competence centre and the network of national co-ordination centres proposal. Following this, a progress report and exchange of views took place on the ePrivacy regulation.

Afterwards, the Austrian presidency provided information on the progress of current legislative proposals, namely: the recast public sector information directive; the .eu top level domain regulation; and the Cybersecurity Act. The Austrian presidency also provided an update on the state of play of the digital single market. The Council ended with a presentation from the incoming Romanian presidency on their work programme for the first half of 2019 and their priorities for the digital single market. These were: innovation; cybersecurity; skills; and women in tech.

[HCWS1182]

Oral Answers to Questions

Margot James Excerpts

Thursday 13th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con)]

4. What steps his Department is taking to improve the security of data for people and companies.

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

The Government take the protection of data extremely seriously and want the UK to be the safest place to live and work online. The Data Protection Act 2018 makes our data protection framework fit for the digital age, with increased powers and funding for the Information Commissioner. Additionally, we have invested almost £2 billion in our national cyber-security strategy and opened the world-leading National Cyber Security Centre to protect the public and industry.

[Mary Robinson]

Last month, I held my first ScamSmart event in my constituency, bringing together police, charities and banks to inform residents and discuss with them the dangers of online scamming and the importance of data protection. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that my constituents’ data is safe from these unscrupulous companies and that they are informed about how they can protect themselves?

[Margot James]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on holding that event, which is a very important thing to do. The new legislation strengthens people’s rights to access their data, to object to the way it is being processed, and to seek erasure of data where appropriate. For those that break the rules, we have increased the fines to 4% of global turnover—a dramatic increase. We have also substantially increased the resources available to the Information Commissioner to investigate scams like those that she seeks to eradicate.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Some years ago, the addresses of my staff in this House were released due to a data breach. The danger to safety posed by these breaches demands that we address this issue, so will the Minister do so in the strongest terms? Will she also outline the funding that has been allocated to cyber-security and to the personal safety and security of people in this House?

[Margot James]

The hon. Gentleman will be reassured to know that had that breach occurred since the Data Protection Act was put into law, the Information Commissioner’s Office would have had substantially increased additional powers to take measures to address it. The Government are investing almost £2 billion in cyber-security, and the National Cyber Security Centre is there to help individuals, Members of Parliament and businesses.

[Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con)]

Documents published last week by the Select Committee show that Facebook was offering privileged access to user data to some commercial partners without those users’ knowledge, and was cutting off some other companies’ access to data altogether. Does the Minister feel that this should be a matter of investigation not only for the Information Commissioner but for the competition authorities?

[Margot James]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. I congratulate him and his Committee on the work that they have done. His exposure of the information that Facebook engineers have reported the mass harvesting of data since 2014 is certainly worthy of continuing investigation.

[Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)]

5. What steps his Department is taking to support public libraries.

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[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

6. What steps the Government are taking to protect consumers from misleading broadband advertising.

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

The Government are working with industry and regulators to ensure that consumers receive clear and accurate information to help them make informed choices about their broadband. The Advertising Standards Authority has recently strengthened its rules on broadband advertising to ensure that speed claims in adverts are not misleading. A new Ofcom code of practice on broadband speeds will come into force next March.

[Ian Murray]

I am grateful to the Minister for that answer, but a High Court case has been raised today to try to overturn the Advertising Standards Authority’s decision to allow broadband to be advertised as fibre when large parts of it are of copper. Given that Edinburgh, where my constituency is, has just become a fibre city and that the Minister herself has called this advertising “misleading”, what can the Government do to ensure that when fibre broadband is advertised, it is indeed fibre end to end and does not have copper?

[Margot James]

I have great sympathy with the hon. Gentleman’s point. As we know, the judicial review of the ASA’s decision, brought by CityFibre, is expected imminently, and we will continue to monitor that issue. In the meantime, however, I hope he can take comfort from the new Ofcom code that comes into effect next March, which will considerably strengthen the situation.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

Good broadband services are essential for so many businesses throughout Taunton Deane. Sadly, however, owing to the difficulties with Gigaclear, many are still not getting the services they deserve. While Infracapital has revised the plan for the roll-out, it is going to be much longer and slower. Its success will depend on extending the rate for state aid beyond the March 2020 deadline. If we do not do this, many businesses will be jeopardised and homes affected, so will the Minister meet me to discuss the issue?

[Margot James]

I am aware of the issues raised by my hon. Friend. Indeed, I will meet her and the companies she is concerned about in the new year to discuss the issues she has raised.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

We call it t’internet in Yorkshire. Broadband suppliers are responsible for the universal service obligation. Will they be required to use wireless technologies where those are the most cost-effective solutions?

[Margot James]

We are aware that, no matter how successful our full fibre programme—and we have our target, as my hon. Friend will know, of full fibre coverage across the UK by 2033—there will be premises for which fibre will never be the optimum route of connection. We will of course consider and urge others to consider wireless technologies where full fibre is not effective.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

7. What steps his Department is taking to support the broadcasting of women’s sport.

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[John Mc Nally (Falkirk) (SNP)]

10. What recent discussions he has had with broadcasters on the provision of balanced political coverage.

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

The regulation of broadcasters’ political coverage is a matter for Ofcom, the independent media regulator. Any televised material is subject to the provisions of Ofcom’s broadcasting code and Ofcom has strong rules in place to ensure the impartiality and accuracy of political coverage.

[John Mc Nally]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Many of my Falkirk constituents complained to me that the now doomed Brexit debate would have placed two leaders in a head-to-head format, with no input from any of the devolved Administrations. At a time when politicians often complain that the public are not getting the full, balanced picture, does the Minister really believe that this helps to dispel or remove that belief?

[Margot James]

The debate that the hon. Gentleman referred to did not happen, but it was going to be just between the two main parties—that is true. With regard to Scotland, the BBC will be launching its Scotland channel next year to improve the coverage of Scottish life and Scottish affairs. As regards impartiality, the code will guarantee impartiality across the United Kingdom.

[Gillian Keegan (Chichester) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

T4. What importance does the Minister for Digital and Creative Industries attach to ensuring the digital security and integrity of elections by protecting secret ballots from digital or photographic interference?

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

I think I know what has driven my hon. Friend’s question. I should like to take this opportunity if I may to apologise to the chairman of the 1922 committee. He apparently issued a rule about last night’s election, news of which did not reach me. It appears that I may have been in breach. I apologise to my hon. Friend if that is the case.

[John Mc Nally (Falkirk) (SNP)]

T2. Team Scotland, the national dance and cheerleading team, will participate in the 2019 international cheerleading world championships in Florida. More than 100 athletes from across Scotland will travel to Orlando—some travel from as far away as Stornoway to participate in training sessions. A future foundation is being built to participate in the Olympic games, in which the sport has been fully recognised. Will the Secretary of State join me in the fundraising attempt to keep costs minimal and be inclusive? Will he also join me in wishing them and other nations well in next year’s championships?

[Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)]

T6. Residents in my constituency who live in Gustard Wood near the village of Wheathampstead have continually complained to me about the lack of mobile and broadband access. What can the Minister say from the Dispatch Box that I can take back to them to let them know that this problem will improve very soon?

[Margot James]

I assure my hon. Friend that many measures are being taken. The forthcoming universal service obligation should ensure that households that have a speed below 2 megabits per second have the right to request high-speed broadband of at least 10 megabits per second. That will come into effect in 2020. There is more to be done through Broadband Delivery UK—there are numerous voucher schemes. If my hon. Friend wants further information, I am happy to meet him to discuss the options available to him.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

T3. Scotland’s land mass is two thirds the size of England’s, and Scotland clearly has many more islands. What needs analysis was carried out that resulted in Scotland’s receiving a fifth of England’s broadband budget?

[Margot James]

I am not aware of the report to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but I am aware that the UK and Scottish Governments are working together to bring about better speeds and access to superfast broadband, which is already at 93.5% in Scotland.

[Sir Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con)]

T7. Soft power is one of the golden assets that this country possesses, but it is not nearly well enough co-ordinated; indeed, it is badly co-ordinated. This should be done better. Will my hon. Friend consider what steps his Department could take to ensure that co-ordination is greatly improved?

Telecommunications Council

Margot James Excerpts

Tuesday 4th December 2018 Written Statements

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

The telecommunications formation of the Transport, Telecommunications and Energy Council will take place in Brussels on 4 December 2018. The deputy permanent representative to the EU, Katrina Williams, will represent the UK.

The Council will begin with the Austrian presidency seeking to secure a partial general approach on the digital Europe programme. A progress report and policy debate will then take place on the European cyber-security industrial, technology and research competence centre and the network of national co-ordination centres proposal. Following this, a progress report and exchange of views will take place on the e-privacy regulation

Afterwards, the discussion of AOB items will follow, including the adoption of the European electronic communications code (EECC) and Body of European Regulators of Electronic Communications (BEREC) proposals. Information from the Austrian presidency will be given on the progress of current legislative proposals, namely: the recast public sector information directive; the .eu top level domain regulation; and the Cybersecurity Act. The Austrian presidency will also provide an update on the state of play of the digital single market. The Council will end with a presentation from the incoming Romanian presidency on its work programme for the first half of 2019.

[HCWS1139]

Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation

Margot James Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries (Margot James)]

With permission, I would like to make a statement on the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation.

The UK has a proud history of supporting the use of open data. Indeed, there has been a huge programme of work in recent years to make sure we are promoting the open and transparent use of data. The Government are in a privileged position, as we collect a vast quantity of high-quality data while delivering public services. As the UK moves rapidly towards a data-driven economy, we have an opportunity to improve decision making in many areas. The Government have already published over 44,000 datasets. Indeed, I pay tribute to the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for West Bromwich East (Tom Watson), who was an early pioneer of open data while a Minister in the Cabinet Office.

This unprecedented openness has created many benefits. First, it has made the Government more accountable and transparent. Secondly, it can improve the effectiveness of public services. Thirdly, it has created the potential for new businesses to thrive. By making our data available to the public, we have been able to fuel businesses and applications that make life better and easier, and all this has paid dividends. We are now ranked joint first in the world on the open data barometer—an achievement of which we can be justly proud.

While open data is something we must aspire to, we also need to use it in a safe and ethical manner. The rise of artificial intelligence-driven products and services has posed new questions that will impact us all. What are the ethical implications of using technology to determine someone’s likelihood of reoffending? Is it right to use a programme powered by AI to make hiring decisions? Can it ever be right to have an algorithm influence who should be saved in a car crash? These are no longer questions for science fiction but real questions that require clear and definitive answers, where possible, from policy makers.

That is why we have recently established the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation—ethics and innovation are not mutually exclusive, as strong ethics can be a driver of innovation. It is our intention that the centre becomes a world-class advisory body to make sure that data and AI deliver the best possible outcomes for society, in support of their ethical and innovative use. Following a consultation over the summer on the activities and work of the new centre, we are pleased to publish our response today.

This is the first body of its kind to be established anywhere in the world and represents a landmark moment for data ethics in the UK and internationally. Throughout the consultation, respondents recognised the urgent need for the centre, and there was widespread support for its objectives: to advise the Government on the necessary policy and regulatory action and to empower industry through the development of best practice. In turn, we can build public trust in data-driven technologies and make the most of the opportunities they present for society.

We have announced that Roger Taylor will chair the board. Roger has a background in consumer protection, founded Dr Foster, a healthcare data company, and is a passionate advocate for using data to improve lives. I know that he will do an excellent job. We have today announced the board members who will support Roger in this essential work. The board will include Lord Winston, a world-renowned expert in fertility and genetics, Kriti Sharma, vice president of AI at Sage and a leading global voice on data ethics, and Dame Patricia Hodgson, who was chair of Ofcom and brings a wealth of experience of regulatory affairs. The board will bring together some of our greatest minds and their immense and varied expertise to tackle these important issues.

Data is the fuel of any digital economy, and trust in that data is fundamental. As a nation, we have always been pioneers and advocates for transparency and freedom, and we will keep applying those values as we examine how we can make the most of data that is multiplying in scale and sophistication. The great challenge of the digital age is to ensure that data is used safely, ethically and, when possible, transparently. If we do that, we can help to power new technologies that will make life better and solve issues that are currently of grave concern. This truly is within our grasp, and if we work together, we can make it happen. I commend my statement to the House.

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

This Government tend to have ambitious plans for us to be an also-ran in the data age. We have an infrastructure that is hopelessly out of date, an education system that most teachers think is not fit for the future and a voluntary approach to regulation that will not ensure that the online world is a world of trust or a safe space for our children.

We welcome the Minister’s statement, and I thank her for advance sight of it. I also thank her for her words of praise for my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich East (Tom Watson), the shadow Secretary of State, who was indeed a pioneer of open data and the Open Data Institute and the Power of Information Task Force. However, if the new centre is to be an establishment that simply writes voluntary codes and publishes best practice, it will not stop the online hate speech, the data breaches, or the risk of new algorithms coding old injustices into new injustices and inequalities. The centre joins 12 other regulators and advisory bodies with some oversight of the internet, so we now have 13 different regulators and advisers, and this one lacks any statutory basis for either its independence or its focus.

As a test case, will the Minister tell us whether the centre will advise her on the Google DeepMind deal, whereby British health data and its control were transferred to California despite all the assurances that were given to the Government and the public at the time? Will she tell us what specific guidance she is seeking on algorithmic unfairness, given that she voted down the amendments that we had proposed to create a legislative basis in the Data Protection Act 2018? Will she tell us what advice she is seeking on reforming the competition regulation regime, given that more companies, like Amazon, are using data to create monopolistic practices in this country? Finally, will she tell us what steps she will take to ensure that the centre builds on our proposal for a digital rights Bill in a new clause earlier this year?

We are not living through an era of change; we are now living through a change of era, and it is time that the Government rose to the challenge.

[Margot James]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his questions. First, I should make it clear that the centre is not a new regulator. It will be an advisory body, which, for its first year or so, will be in the business of advising the Government and leading public debate on serious ethical issues associated with artificial intelligence. However, I can give a positive response to his question about its independence. It will become independent, and it will be placed on a statutory footing as soon as parliamentary time is available for us to introduce the necessary legislation. We fully intend this body to be totally independent of the Government in due course. Only on that basis, I believe, will it become the world-leading authority on data ethics and innovation that we want it to be in the future.

The right hon. Gentleman asks what the centre will do about online hate speech and other well-known online harms, which my Department and, indeed, the whole Government take extremely seriously. Earlier this year, we published a response to the Green Paper on internet safety, in which we stated that we were working on a White Paper that would explore various options, including legislation and statutory regulation to hold internet companies, particularly social media platforms, to account, and that we intended to produce legislation when parliamentary time permitted. We regard that area as separate from the ethical issues on which the new centre will advise public debate and the Government.

The right hon. Gentleman mentions data protection. As he knows, that is regulated by the Information Commissioner, who has been involved in the development of the centre. He also mentions competition and the concentration of huge amounts of market power in the hands of a few companies. I am sure that many Members on both sides of the House share that concern, but it is very much a matter for the Competition and Markets Authority rather than for the new centre.

The right hon. Gentleman asks whether the centre will advise on Google’s decision to move parts of the healthcare practice of DeepMind to its Californian headquarters. As DeepMind and Google are private corporations, it is not up to the Government to pass comment on how they manage their affairs, but it is, of course, up to the new centre to opine on the practices and code of corporate governance of companies with which public services and Government contracts might work in the future. So there is a connection for the centre, albeit a rather tenuous one.

[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

I hope that the centre will work in collaboration with the Open Data Institute, founded by Sir Nigel Shadbolt and Sir Tim Berners-Lee. Work on open data can make a significant difference both to people with new industries and to us in the House. The Leasehold Knowledge Partnership, of which I am a patron, can use open data in a way that makes the Government start to change its approach to residential leasehold. I am sure that we can use information of this kind to make our job better, and to make a better economy.

[Margot James]

I thank my hon. Friend for his suggestions. The Open Data Institute is just the sort of organisation that the new centre will work with and consult.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)]

I thank the Minister for her statement, although this data seems to be under particular protection. I did not receive an advance copy, although I am sure that that was an oversight on the part of her Department.

The Scottish National party welcomes the announcement of the establishment of the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation. In the age of big data and tech firm power, it is vital for users to be confident that their data is being used in a safe and ethical manner. It is excellent—I hope I am right about this—to see a gender balance on the board, along with racial diversity. I hope that we may see appointments that ensure that LGBTI people and people with disabilities are properly represented and reflected.

I also hope that the Minister will do her best to ensure that the board makes every effort to bridge the gender data gap. I am sure that she is well aware of “Invisible Women”, a recent book by Caroline Criado-Perez. She may also be aware of the comments made by Mayra Buvinic, a United Nations Foundation senior fellow who is working on Data2X, an initiative aimed at closing the gender data gap. She has said:

“The dearth of data makes it difficult to set policies and gauge progress, preventing governments and organizations from taking measurable steps to empower women and improve lives”.

I am sure the Minister agrees that if our Governments are to design the right policies, we must ensure that we collect data on all parts of our society; otherwise, how can we track progress and evaluate developments? Will the Minister discuss those matters with the board and report back on progress? Will she also explain how the centre will work with the devolved nations and Governments on these issues?

There have been reports this week that airline booking algorithms are identifying families with the same surname who are travelling together on the same flight and then deliberately seating them in different parts of the aircraft, with the aim of encouraging them to pay extra to sit together. Does the Minister agree that that is an example of practices that constitute an unethical use of data and target poorer families, and will she confirm that it is exactly such practices that the centre will examine? Perhaps that is a starter for 10.

[Margot James]

I thank the hon. Lady for her questions and apologise that she did not have advance sight of the statement. I agree with many of her points. It is essential that users can have confidence about what is done with their data. That was one of the driving forces behind the introduction of the new data protection legislation earlier in the year. I am glad that she has noted the better diversity on the board of the new institute; in my view that is vital for the very reasons she sets out. It is extremely important that gender, LGBTI and other groups are well represented during the decision-making processes on how data are used as well as on the board of the new body. I will certainly discuss those matters with the new board, which I meet for the first time at its meeting on Monday next week.

Yes, we must continue our discussions with devolved Administrations, and I have already condemned in the strongest possible terms the practices of some airline companies on which she updated the House just now; that is outrageous. These are questions of corporate governance as well as the use of AI. One of the reasons we have set the centre up is to make sure that AI is a force for public good, rather than manipulation in such a cynical attempt at profiteering.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

I strongly welcome the statement. The Select Committee on Education is conducting an inquiry into the impact of the fourth industrial revolution and AI on skills, education and our economy. Does my hon. Friend agree that studies suggesting that 28% of the jobs done by young people could be lost to AI reveal one of the most important challenges facing our nation? Should we not have a royal commission to look at the overall impact of AI, automation and robotics?

[Margot James]

I know my hon. Friend and his Select Committee are looking into these matters and I look forward to engaging with him on them. I encourage Roger Taylor and his team to do so as well. My hon. Friend is right. A recent NESTA report looking forward at the workforce of 2030 found that 20% of our current workforce are in occupations that are likely to be subject to automation and 10% are in occupations that are likely to expand, so this is an important issue and is right at the top of our agenda.

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

The scandals of Cambridge Analytica and AggregateIQ show just how far behind Governments are in tackling data ethics and the manipulation of data. Does the Minister agree that such issues are often best tackled at EU level, and that this is precisely the wrong time for the Government to walk away from the EU if we are serious about addressing these problems?

[Margot James]

The matters to which the right hon. Gentleman refers were recently the subject, and continue to be the subject, of an Information Commissioner’s Office inquiry. I am confident that the ICO has the necessary resources and expertise to undertake these inquiries. Leaving the EU does not mean that we will be abandoning our data protection standards. We fully expect to maintain them and develop them further over time.

[Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con)]

Will the centre have the scope to look at AI and data usage in political campaigning and quasi-political campaigning?

[Margot James]

The inquiry I referred to in the previous answer has been reported on by the Information Commissioner, and she is setting forth a code of practice for political parties to sign up to on their use of data and how data are processed.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

A dating service that optimises short-term relationships to ensure repeat business. A taxi service that charges people more when their phone battery is low. A recruitment service that prioritises men for higher paid vacancies. I welcome the new centre but, with respect, those examples do not require ethical investigation; they require regulation and enforcement. When will we get that?

--- Later in debate ---

[Margot James]

In my answer to the shadow Minister, I set out that the Government are working on a White Paper that will be the precursor to various proposals and options for regulatory and legal reinforcement. Some of the examples the hon. Lady gives may well be the subject of that future legislation.

[Paul Masterton (East Renfrewshire) (Con)]

This area presents huge challenges for society in the future, but also real opportunities, particularly in highly skilled and well-paid jobs. How will the new centre assist in taking forward the AI sector deal, which is potentially of huge benefit across the country?

[Margot James]

This centre will play its part, but I also draw my hon. Friend’s attention to the AI Council—recently launched, and chaired by Tabitha Goldstaub, founder of CognitionX—which is charged with taking forward the AI sector deal so we have an industry that lives up to its potential.

[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

I too welcome the new centre, but will it be accountable to the Government, or perhaps to Parliament through the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee? Will the Minister also tell us a little more about its relationship with the ICO and rerun the answer to the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Liam Byrne) on DeepMind, because to suggest that because these are private companies there is no role for Government is, frankly, a complete abrogation of responsibility?

[Mr Speaker]

There were three inquiries there, but just one aggregated response is required.

[Margot James]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) for giving me the opportunity to clarify the last point he raised. Obviously private companies are subject to law and regulation. They are subject to the current laws and regulations on corporate governance, which have been strengthened by this Government in the last 18 months. I did not see that as a prime issue for the new centre, but corporations are of course subject to rules on corporate governance and so forth.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

This sounds like a good idea, but we used to have a policy of reducing the number of quangos, so which quango is the Minister getting rid of to establish this new one?

[Margot James]

I thank my hon. Friend for his helpful question. This is being done in response to a new and growing need which perhaps was not anticipated when we established the policy to reduce the overall number of advisory bodies to the Government.

[Paula Sherriff (Dewsbury) (Lab)]

I was delighted to welcome Google to my constituency last Friday, when it delivered internet safety training and training on the appropriate use of data at Boothroyd Primary Academy. What specific ethical provisions will the board take into account in considering the impact of new technology on children?

[Margot James]

The impact of new technology on children is being examined by various other organisations. For example, the chief medical officer has been instructed by the Department of Health and Social Care to examine that matter, and the Children’s Commissioner is also looking into it. It is a vital subject, which our White Paper will also address.

[Gillian Keegan (Chichester) (Con)]

I welcome the establishment of this centre here in the UK. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is vital to ensure that the public have confidence in how their data are being used online, particularly with regard to algorithms for AI and deep machine learning?

[Margot James]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question, which goes to the heart of what we expect the new centre to be examining and advising on. She raises crucial questions, which are definitely within the remit of the new centre.

[Norman Lamb (North Norfolk) (LD)]

As Chair of the Science and Technology Committee, I can confirm that it warmly welcomes the establishment of the centre. One of the issues the Government response to the consultation did not really cover was whether the centre’s remit will include the ability to advise on the need for clearer guidelines on the sharing of public sector data, so that the enormous datasets within the NHS and other public services can be shared for the public benefit while also maintaining trust.

[Margot James]

I thank the Chair of the Science and Technology Committee for his question, particularly as it has reminded me of something I overlooked in my answer to the previous one. It is absolutely essential that public trust is earned and reinforced, because surveys that I have seen indicate that the public have something of a crisis of trust in the way in which personal data is currently being analysed—

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

And shared.

[Margot James]

And shared, exactly. This is going to be a vital question for the new centre, but it also comes under the regulatory purview of the Information Commissioner.

[James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)]

Can my hon. Friend assure me that rural communities will have a voice at the centre, especially given the role that AI will play in driving up productivity for farms as we take back control of our agricultural policy when we leave the EU?

[Margot James]

I certainly think that rural areas have a key role to play and a voice that must be listened to as we develop policy in this area. If you will allow me, Mr Speaker, I also want to emphasise the fact that rural areas need better connectivity. Farms need to be able to connect to the coming 5G networks, so that they are able to take advantage of the internet of things and all the other positive benefits that AI will allow.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Minister and colleagues. I think that there is a lurking point of order, and if the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) can overcome his natural shyness and leap to his feet, we will hear it.