Defence Business Services

Liam Fox Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

As part of the process of departmental reform, today we are announcing the commencement of consultation on a significant organisational change within the Ministry of Defence, with the proposed establishment of a defence business services organisation.

Defence business services will deliver corporate services —human resources, finance, information, commercial and vetting—from a single structure to all areas of the Department. This new single organisation will allow us to provide high-quality professional services more efficiently and with fewer civil servants. We are exploring options to strengthen our ability to manage this change, including the possibility of bringing in outside professional management expertise to lead and direct the new organisation.

By making these changes we expect to reduce the overall civilian work force by about 2,000 corporate services posts with a net saving of £73 million per annum by 2014. This will make a significant contribution to the civilian staff reductions set out last October in the strategic defence and security review.

These proposals are a development of the recommendations made in Gerry Grimstone’s independent review into the use of civilians in defence in 2010. Along with the creation of a new defence infrastructure organisation, which I announced to Parliament on 16 February 2011, the corporate services reforms are the first changes arising out of the work of the defence reform unit chaired by Lord Levene on restructuring the Department. There will be more such changes as we receive and consider further proposals.

Armed Forces' Pay Review Body

Liam Fox Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

The 2011 report of the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body (AFPRB) has now been published. I wish to express my thanks to the chairman and members of the review body for their report. I am pleased to confirm that the AFPRB’s recommendations are to be accepted in full, with implementation effective from 1 April 2011.

In line with the Government’s 2010 emergency Budget, which announced a two-year pay freeze for all public sector employees, the AFPRB basic military salary recommendations are only for those personnel earning £21,000 or less where the recommendation is for an increase of £250. The AFPRB also recommended a number of targeted measures, including the introduction of financial retention incentives to retain personnel essential to delivering key operational capability. The Government have also accepted the AFPRB recommendations to increase food and some accommodation charges.

Copies of the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body report will be available in the Vote Office.

RAF Brize Norton

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

I wish to inform the House that repatriation ceremonies for those killed in operational theatres will move from RAF Lyneham to RAF Brize Norton by 1 September 2011.

The Ministry of Defence is committed to recognising the sacrifice made by service personnel on operations and part of that commitment is to ensure there is a formal repatriation ceremony, which is a solemn occasion to provide the appropriate level of dignity and respect when the body returns to the UK.

For the last three and a half years, repatriation ceremonies have taken place at RAF Lyneham. The Ministry of Defence announced in July 2003 that RAF Lyneham will be closing as part of defence estate rationalisation and therefore, following a detailed option study, it has been decided that the most appropriate air base for future repatriation ceremonies would be RAF Brize Norton. This move will take effect by 1 September 2011, before the cessation of flying operations at RAF Lyneham.

I would like to thank RAF Lyneham for its excellent work in supporting the important task of repatriation ceremonies. I am certain that RAF Brize Norton will maintain the standard of solemnity, dignity and respect to our service personnel killed on operations as shown by the personnel at RAF Lyneham. I would also like to record publicly my thanks to the people of Wootton Bassett who have chosen to pay their respects in a unique and special way. It is such spontaneous public support that captures the spirit of the British people.

I am very grateful for those who have participated; such gestures do not go unnoticed by those deployed on operations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Liam Fox Excerpts

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

1. What recent assessment he has made of the security situation in Afghanistan; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

The whole House will want to join me in paying tribute to Lance Corporal Stephen McKee, from 1st Battalion The Royal Irish Regiment, who was killed in Afghanistan on 9 March. The House will want to join me in paying tribute also to the station commander of RAF Northolt, Group Captain Tom Barrett, who was killed in a road traffic accident on the evening of Thursday 10 March. Many members of the current and former Governments will have known him well. Both men served their country with honour and distinction, and our thoughts and prayers are with their friends, colleagues and families at this very difficult time.

The security situation in Afghanistan varies significantly across the country. About 64% of violent incidents take place in just three of Afghanistan’s 34 provinces, Helmand, Kandahar and Kunar, which have about 11% of the total population. The insurgency’s heartland remains in the south. The increases in the international security assistance force and Afghan national security force have helped us to make real progress over the winter in all aspects of our counter-insurgency operations: security, governance, and development.

[Tom Brake]

I join the Secretary of State in his tributes to our fallen soldiers.

The security situation in Afghanistan may have a permanent impact on service personnel after the conflict. Taking into account valuable lessons learned from previous conflicts, such as the Falklands, whereby more servicemen took their own lives afterwards than died during fighting, what measures are in place to support servicemen and women who experience mental health or social problems either during or after the conflict?

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend makes a very valuable point. It is all too easy to see the physical scars of war; it is much more difficult to see the mental scars of war. It is because of the importance given to the matter by the Government that, cross-departmentally, we are making more funding available to mental health projects for our armed forces. We are looking at the scientific evidence available to see whether we can better target that help, but the measures that we are putting in place include the new phone line for service personnel.

[Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State will recall that on 14 February he made a moderate and encouraging statement to the House, saying that he thought that the second half of this year would be a good time to make a political push towards a settlement. He also said that we would pay a heavy price if we failed to take the opportunity that would then occur. He has since no doubt seen the Defence Committee’s report, which says that at the moment the Americans seem disinclined to pursue a political settlement. Can he assure the House that he will use his best endeavours to encourage the Americans to take the course that he has recommended?

[Dr Fox]

I am not sure that I am required to make efforts to get the Americans to make such a change in their posture, as the hon. Gentleman describes it. In fact, I spoke to Secretary Gates at the ISAF meeting in Brussels at the weekend, and it is very clear that we are all now moving together. The process of transition, including which parts of Afghanistan will undertake that transition, will be announced by President Karzai on 21 March.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

The Defence Secretary brings a welcome dose of realism to his post, but given that counter-insurgency operations in the past, such as in Malaya, suggest that not one of the pre-conditions for success exists in Afghanistan today, why does he think this is going to be different, and why does he think that we are going to beat the Taliban?

[Dr Fox]

Our aim in Afghanistan has been to create a stable enough Afghanistan so that it is able to manage its own internal and external security without the need to rely on the international community. We have put in place improvements in governance, as well as an improvement in the security position. We have seen a big increase in the size and capability of the Afghan national security force, which should enable Afghanistan to maintain that position when the international community leaves in an active role.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

2. What recent assessment he has made of the potential role of UK armed forces in north Africa.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

The Government keep plans for the use of our armed forces under constant review, and planning with our NATO partners is also ongoing. A number of contingency plans with respect to Libya are being considered by NATO, including further humanitarian assistance, enforcing an arms embargo and the implementation of a no-fly zone. No decisions have yet been taken and no assets have yet been committed.

[Mr Hanson]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that, prior to any no-fly zone in Libya being undertaken, he will get the support of the United Nations and the Arab League to achieve that objective? Will he also look at the resources in the strategic defence review to ensure that our troops and our aircraft have the support of air force personnel and aircraft to meet those objectives?

[Dr Fox]

The Government have made it clear, alongside our NATO allies, that in relation to a no-fly zone, three criteria have to be met: there has to be a demonstrable need; there has to be a clear legal basis; and there has to be involvement of the countries in the region. Clearly, we would not be planning if we did not have the assets readily available for the task.

[Mr James Arbuthnot (North East Hampshire) (Con)]

On Friday, the BBC carried a report that two Nimrod R1 aircraft, which had been due to come out of service at the end of this month, had been reprieved, at least until June. Was it true? Are there any other recent decisions that are being reconsidered or perhaps should be reconsidered as events in the Arab world unfold?

[Dr Fox]

As I have just said, we always ensure that the assets are available. I asked the armed forces to look at whether we could have a temporary extension for the R1 until we were sure that we had sufficient alternative assets to be able to provide us with the same capability. That work is being undertaken at the moment.

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

We all pay tribute to the work that our forces are carrying out in and around Libya at the moment, and we support the Government’s work in attempting to achieve a no-fly zone. However, there remain serious issues about earlier decisions, not least on HMS Cumberland, which has done so much off Benghazi, but whose next journey will be to be decommissioned. Also, some Nimrod aircraft that were previously bound for scrap may have won a temporary reprieve. Given that the National Audit Office report says that the RAF currently has only

“eight pilots who are capable of undertaking ground attack missions on Typhoon”,

and that that will not be sufficient in future, why does the Secretary of State think it is right to sack almost 200 trainee pilots?

[Dr Fox]

As I have said repeatedly in the House, we have had to reduce the number of aircraft available for the future as part of the strategic defence and security review, not least because of the budgetary position that we inherited. It does no good whatsoever to the credibility of the Opposition to complain about reductions made as a result of their budgetary incompetence when they will not tell us what their budget would be or what cuts they would support or not support.

[Mr Murphy]

The Secretary of State should spare us the lecture. This from a Government who allow soldiers to be sacked by e-mail, whose actions mean that this week, for the first time in decades, we do not have the ability to put an aircraft carrier to sea, and who will not guarantee that anyone currently serving in Afghanistan will be exempt from being sacked. The defence review was rushed; it has not survived the first contact with world events. Three words missing from it were Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. Many experts are worried about new gaps in capability. Will the Secretary of State guarantee that there will be no future cuts in military capability in the lifetime of this Parliament?

[Dr Fox]

The word missing from the right hon. Gentleman’s comments was “sorry”—sorry for the position in which he left our armed forces, with an MOD budget massively over-committed at £158 billion. What Labour Members still have not recognised is that their own economic incompetence is a liability for this country’s national security in the long term. We are taking the measures to put this country back on a firm footing in a way that they never could and never had the courage to do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

7. What progress he has made on the implementation of the Trident replacement programme.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

The programme to replace the Vanguard submarine completed the initial concept studies, and we expect an announcement on initial gate approval in the coming weeks. There remain ongoing discussions, which have simply taken longer than it was anticipated a few months ago. It is important, given the size of the project, that we get the decision right.

[Dr Lewis]

At a press conference organised by the anti-nuclear deterrent front organisation, the British American Security Information Council, a Liberal Democrat Defence Minister stated that a very thin paper trail had led to the last Government’s decision to renew Trident. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the White Paper produced by his Department and the last Government was actually a first-class piece of work, was recognised as such by my right hon. Friend who is now Prime Minister and gave every good argument for why we went into the Division Lobby with the Labour Government to support that renewal?

[Dr Fox]

The White Paper was a thorough piece of work. It was the basis on which the House made a considered decision on the issue, and I still believe that for the long-term well-being and security of the United Kingdom, a continuous at-sea, submarine-based, minimum-credible nuclear deterrent in the form of the replacement for the Trident programme is the best way forward.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

There seems to be a non-sequitur on the funding of the construction of this new weapon of mass destruction. In answers to me, the Secretary of State has pointed out that £300 million has been spent on advance orders for new steel and other things. In answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) a few moments ago, however, the Government talked of a figure of £25 million. Where exactly has the authority come from, other than the honeyed words “custom and practice”, for the expenditure of apparently up to £1 billion on preparation for the development of this new weapons system?

[Dr Fox]

On the broad picture, if we choose to go ahead on the dates set out since the White Paper—we have changed them slightly since coming into government —long-lead items need to be ordered. The Government have set out clearly that we believe that that is the best course for the UK. The main gate decision will be taken some time after 2015.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm whether UK nuclear submarines rely on back-up power supplies to run their coolant pumps, just like Japanese nuclear power stations? Is that why Commodore MacFarlane, the defence nuclear safety regulator, recently said that UK submarine reactor safety falls

“significantly short of benchmarked…good practice”?

[Dr Fox]

One decision in the Trident replacement will be whether we move to pressurised water reactor 3 for improved nuclear safety. The Government’s view is that that is the preferred option, because those reactors give us a better safety outlook. That is a debate on both sides of the Atlantic, but we believe that in terms of safety, the case is very clear-cut.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

8. What recent assessment he has made of progress in the reform of NATO.

--- Later in debate ---

[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

13. What resources his Department has allocated to strategic planning in 2010-11.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

At departmental level, strategic planning is overseen by the director general, strategy. He has 51 military and 75 civilian staff, and an overall budget for 2010-11 of some £12 million. If my hon. Friend is interested, I recommend that she should read the excellent report by the Select Committee on Administration.

[Laura Sandys]

I have certainly read the executive summary. Does the Secretary of State agree that we should continue to maintain a focus on building our risk assessment strategic planning and scenario capacity, to ensure that we can anticipate the future in a changing environment and the threats to our national interest?

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend is entirely right, and that is why in the strategic defence and security review we chose an adaptable posture for the UK’s defence and security. We specifically rejected the concepts of fortress Britain or an over-committed Britain, which would result in a lack of agility. The events of recent days have shown how unpredictable the external environment can be. That is why we were correct to maintain that flexibility and agility in our armed forces.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

A week ago 50 senior military figures called for the SDSR to be reopened. They signed a letter saying that the SDSR

“seems to have been driven by financial rather than military considerations”.

However, when the Secretary of State gave evidence to the Defence Select Committee last week, he refused to deny reports that the Ministry of Defence was facing another £1 billion of cuts. Is it not becoming clear that it is the Chancellor of the Exchequer who is in the driving seat in the MOD, not the Secretary of State?

[Dr Fox]

If we have financial difficulties in the MOD or elsewhere in the Government, we know where they came from. When we look across what we do in the Ministry of Defence—and, indeed, in the rest of Government —we look to see what risks the UK may face and how we might best mitigate them. We have decided that the United Kingdom needs an adaptable posture, and we have therefore decided to build flexibility into the programmes leading to Future Force 2020, which I believe provides the best security for this country.

[Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)]

14. If he will assess the merits of placing currently unrequired defence equipment in reserve.

--- Later in debate ---

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

15. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of his Department’s contribution to the operation to evacuate UK nationals from Libya; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

My right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have already paid tribute to the members of the armed forces and the diplomatic service and all those who put themselves in harm’s way to help our people to leave safely. I would like to add my thanks to all those involved, in particular the members of the armed forces and civilian personnel, who demonstrated courage and professionalism in the co-ordinated effort to rescue British and other nationals from the crisis. The Ministry of Defence utilised a range of assets to support the Foreign Office-led operation to recover UK and other citizens from Libya. We successfully transported 926 entitled persons, of whom 286 were British nationals.

[Toby Perkins]

I would like to associate myself with the Secretary of State’s comments on the work done by our armed forces in Libya. Will he tell the House who in the Ministry of Defence authorised the use of special forces in the operation that started on 2 March, and what advice led to that decision?

[Dr Fox]

The Foreign Secretary has already set out the circumstances in which—[Interruption.] I have no intention of commenting further on special forces. I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has joined me in thanking those who took part in that work. I visited HMS Cumberland in Malta at the weekend to thank on behalf of the Government and the House of Commons the crew for their tremendous work. The fact that we were able to take 926 citizens, of whom only 286 were British, shows just how far we were ahead of the curve and doing our utmost to help those of other nations as well.

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the successful evacuation of several hundred of our own nationals, together with large numbers of overseas nationals, with not a single casualty among those people or our armed services, should be an occasion for rejoicing and congratulation, rather than for the negative party politicking that we have heard from the Opposition?

[Dr Fox]

It is interesting to compare the coverage that the operations led by the United Kingdom, including the command and control organisation in Malta, gets in the United Kingdom with the coverage that we get in other countries in Europe and beyond, where there cannot be high enough praise for our armed forces and for the organisation put forward by the United Kingdom. Perhaps this is a time to praise our people rather than to condemn them.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

18. What assessment he has made of the likely date for HMS Illustrious to return to service; and if he will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

19. What recent assessment he has made of the implications for his Department’s policies of the security situation in the middle east and north Africa.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

In response to the changing security situation in the middle east and north Africa, work is under way to understand the implications that the changing environment will have on our policies in the wider region.

[Stuart Andrew]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that answer. Will he give an assurance that our regional basing and overflight rights will ensure that we can effectively deploy ground attack aircraft in the region if necessary?

[Dr Fox]

The assumption that we made in the SDSR was that we had sufficient basing and overflight rights to be able to project air power where required. Nothing has happened in recent days to change that assumption.

[Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con)]

The Secretary of State has rightly focused on Libya and the excellence of our operations there, but can he assure the House that his policies, in regard to resource and planning, are also focused on what might happen in other north African countries if evacuations or operations were required there?

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend is of course correct. We are looking not only at what is happening in Libya but at other countries in the region where there has been instability in recent times. They include countries such as Yemen, where we already have forward positioning of assets, should we be required to evacuate any British nationals.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

20. What recent representations he has received on the implications for airfields on the defence estate of the outcome of the strategic defence and security review; and if he will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

My departmental responsibilities are to ensure that our country is properly defended now and in the future, that our service personnel have the right equipment and training to allow them to succeed in the military tasks, and that we honour the armed forces covenant.

[Jack Dromey]

Will the Secretary of State explain in detail and publish in full his views on the unfunded liability—supposedly left by the last Labour Government —on equipment, procurement and support programmes over the next 10 years?

[Dr Fox]

I will not be the only one to set out that information, as I am sure the National Audit Office and the Public Accounts Committee as well as the Select Committee on Defence will want to make it perfectly clear. I have made it clear, including in the evidence I gave to the Select Committee last week, that I would like to see greater transparency in how the Department makes its information available. As for the unfunded liability we inherited from the previous Government and the damage it has done to our ability to plan for the future—

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Where has the £38 billion gone?

[Dr Fox]

The hon. Gentleman asks where the £38 billion has gone; he should know; he left it behind. It was his Government who were responsible for it. We shall diminish that unfunded liability and put the Department back on a sound footing—something that Labour Members were incapable of doing.

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

T2. The United Nations Secretary-General’s special representative on children and armed conflict recently reported on the Afghan national police’s recruitment of children to fight and on the sexual exploitation of young boys by Afghan police and military commanders. Given this disturbing evidence, will the Secretary of State explain what guidance is given to British military and police trainers when they encounter children in the Afghan national security forces?

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

T3. I am not sure that the Secretary of State’s earlier answer was entirely clear, so perhaps he will try again. Will he tell us who specifically in his Department authorised the involvement of special forces in Libya on 2 March?

[Dr Fox]

I have already made it clear that the Foreign Secretary set out the exact details, as far as we are able to disclose them, on that particular operation. When force protection is to be offered to the sort of diplomatic mission that was undertaken, it is quite usual for the Ministry of Defence to be asked and to agree to do it.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

T5. The Secretary of State and his Department regularly meet the Royal British Legion and other veterans organisations. At those meetings, how much emphasis is placed on the fact that the military covenant is enshrined in law and, critically, on determining in what form and when that military covenant will be met?

--- Later in debate ---

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

T6. As well as supporting the movement opposing Gaddafi in Libya, what steps can my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State take to support the democratic movements in Bahrain and Yemen, especially in view of the events of recent days?

[Dr Fox]

I think there is a difference between the two cases that my hon. Friend has cited. There is great concern about the possibility that the collapse of the Yemeni state would lead to an increase in the influence of al-Qaeda. It is therefore of great importance to the United Kingdom’s national security that we do what we can to stabilise the situation, while ensuring that we can evacuate United Kingdom citizens safely if the regime cannot hold.

[Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

T4. Given that Wales contains a fifth of the United Kingdom’s population but 8% of its military population, does the Secretary of State accept that the consequences of cuts that come too fast and go too deep will affect Wales disproportionately? What will he do to ensure that loyalty is repaid not with penalties but with respect?

[Dr Fox]

Decisions on the footprint of the United Kingdom’s armed forces are made primarily on the basis of military effectiveness. However, notwithstanding the level of cuts that must be made in order to balance the books, I personally ascribe great importance to maintaining a footprint throughout the Union. [Interruption.] What we are hearing is a very boring record. The difference between the main parties and the nationalists in the House is that we believe in maintaining a footprint throughout the Union, whereas they do not believe in having UK armed forces at all.

[Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

T10. I am sure that the Minister will agree that while our British forces are in Afghanistan, it is important for them to contribute to the development of a strong humanitarian legacy of basic health care, education and clean drinking water for the people of Afghanistan. What steps is his Department taking, in conjunction with the Department for International Development, to help to secure that legacy?

[Dr Fox]

We work very closely with DFID on all those issues. As my hon. Friend correctly implies, if we are to have a sustainable legacy in Afghanistan, it cannot simply involve the strength of the armed forces or the police; there must also be strong governance and a strong infrastructure.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

T9. Given the consideration in recent weeks of no-fly zones over Libya, do the Government still intend to make 170 trainee pilots redundant?

[Dr Fox]

The number of trainee pilots is designed to mirror the number of airframes that we intend to be able to fly in future. That was set out in the SDSR. As I remind hon. Members on every occasion, one of the reasons that we are having to make reductions in the budget is the £158 billion deficit left behind by the Labour Government, on which the interest payments alone are greater than next year’s defence, Foreign Office and aid budgets put together.

[Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

The House rightly pays tribute to our military personnel who are serving in Afghanistan. On Friday the Minister for the Armed Forces visited the Colchester garrison, where he will have seen on one side of the road former Army housing that is now social housing, on which millions of pounds are being spent by one arm of Government. Can the Minister explain why the same amount cannot be spent on housing on the other side of the road, where the fathers and husbands of military personnel in Afghanistan live?

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware of the widespread concern at Defence Support Group in Sealand about ongoing job losses—and, indeed, the Government’s proposals to find a buyer for the business. Why, therefore, has he barred me from visiting the site?

[Dr Fox]

I am not aware of any such condition, but if the hon. Gentleman wants to come and see me about it, I will be very happy to discuss it with him.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

Given that the Batch 3 Type 22s have recently proved their value in both evacuating British nationals and vital intelligence gathering, and that no other platforms have such persistence, would it not be prudent to keep them intact during the current uncertain times in the world?

[Dr Fox]

It would be very attractive to be able to maintain a great deal of capability but, sadly, we are unable to do so because of financial constraints. It would be wonderful in a perfect world for us to be able not only to retain these assets but to invest in future assets as well, but if we are to be able to make investments in the future to deal with the threats we may face, we have to disinvest from some of the capabilities of the past, albeit with regret.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State will know of the commitment of the people of Plymouth to keeping the Royal Navy at sea, using all the skills we have in Plymouth. However, we need to know what is going to happen with regard to the Type 23s and the replacement for Endurance. What is the time scale for telling the people of Plymouth whether or not any of those ships will be base-ported in our city?

[Dr Fox]

It gives me great pleasure to be able to commend the people of Plymouth for the great commitment they have made over many years. We will have announcements to make in the very near future on some of the issues the hon. Lady mentions, and I will ensure she is made aware of them before we make them available to others.

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

Given the unique relationship between the sovereign and members of the armed forces, will the Secretary of State update the House on what his Department intends to do to commemorate next year’s diamond jubilee?

[Dr Fox]

The Government will cross-departmentally set out their proposals on the diamond jubilee in the near future. The House will be informed in the usual way.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling), exactly how are the public supposed to maintain confidence in our programme to replace the Trident deterrent when the president of one of the governing parties is apparently given carte blanche to cheer up his battered activists by telling them it probably will not go ahead at all?

[Dr Fox]

The coalition agreement made it very clear that the Liberal Democrats within the coalition would be free to advocate alternatives to the replacement programme. The overall Government policy remains the replacement of the Trident programme however, and, as I said earlier today, the best solution for the United Kingdom is a submarine-based, continuously-at-sea, minimum-credible nuclear deterrent that protects the UK while contributing to overall reductions in international nuclear arsenals.

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

It is a sorry state of affairs when calls for a no-fly zone from the interim national Libyan council are endorsed by the Arab League but the European Union fails to back them. What is the Secretary of State’s assessment of the security risk of inaction, should the international community fail to take responsibility to protect the Libyan people from Gaddafi?

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend makes a useful point. The Government’s aim is very clear: we want to see the isolation of, and a diminution in the size and effectiveness of, the regime in Libya, which we believe has lost legitimacy. The aim is for the international community to speak with a single voice, and the more we are united, the more we send a signal to Colonel Gaddafi that the game is up and he has no friends and no future in Libya or beyond.

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State now answer the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn): how much has so far been spent on the Trident replacement?

[Dr Fox]

I have set out on a number of occasions the different areas in which we spend. We have to spend in advance because there are long-lead items that need to be spent on in order to make sure we are able to take the decisions at the points we have set in initial gate, and main gate when we get to 2015.

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

Last week, we saw evidence that Iran continues to supply the Taliban with weaponry. Has the Secretary of State had any discussions with our allies to ensure that weapons intended for the Taliban are being actively intercepted?

[Dr Fox]

At the weekend’s NATO summit in Brussels and at the subsequent international security assistance force meeting we raised with our allies our concerns about the arming of the Taliban by Iran. This is a clear example, if we needed any, of the potentially malign influence that Iran can have in the region and it should be a warning to us all about its potential intent.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

I recently visited the Merseyside garrison headquarters, where I met Territorial Army soldiers. Does the Secretary of State share their concerns that changes to the home-to-duty travel allowance will mean that by 2013 a TA soldier who lives 9 miles or more from their TA centre will receive £4 less every time they attend their place of duty for training?

[Dr Fox]

It is with a great deal of regret that one of the savings we are having to make in the Ministry of Defence is in the level of allowances available to service personnel. However, I must say to the hon. Lady that financial remuneration and allowances will be part of the picture of the wider review being undertaken of the Territorials and the reserves. We will want to look at that in the totality of the review of the reserves to make sure we get better value for money and more effective reserves.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

As my right hon. Friend concludes his consultation on the security and technology Green Paper, will he ensure that he does not make the previous Government’s mistake of allowing MOD prime contractors to obstruct small and medium-sized enterprises in getting their fair share of the defence procurement pie?

[Dr Fox]

It has been an aim of the Government from the outset when looking at defence technology and the procurement process to ensure that SMEs are given more than a fair crack of the whip. For too long, this has been about the prime contractors, with too little consideration given to the SMEs, which represent in this country not only vibrancy in technology and innovation but a major source of employment.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

On the arms trade, does the Secretary of State agree with Mr Tom Porteous of UK Human Rights Watch that our country is being made to “look stupid” because of the conduct of our special trade representative? Should we not be employing trade representatives on the basis of their knowledge of industry, ethics and human rights, rather than on the hereditary principle?

[Dr Fox]

Mr Speaker, you made it very clear last time that because members of the royal family cannot answer back we should be very careful what we say in this House about them. It is fair to say that not only do we follow the legislation set down by the previous Government, but we have some of the tightest regulations on arms trading in the world.

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, Henry Smith.

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

We are entering a time of increasing geomagnetic solar flare activity. Will the Secretary of State say what mitigating effects are being considered to protect military communications?

[Dr Fox]

This issue is being looked at globally. I may have responsibility for many things, but solar activity is not one of them.

Support for UK Armed Forces and Veterans

Liam Fox Excerpts

Thursday 3rd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Donaldson]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that comment.

I would like to make another point that has been raised before in the House and is the subject of early-day motion 484: the question of the rank that a soldier holds at the time of his death and the impact on the pension paid to his family and surviving spouse. There is a rule that pensions on promotion are payable only after a new rank has been held for a year, which means that the families of some of our armed forces personnel who have been killed on active service have received a pension below the level that is consistent with the rank held at the time of death. I am thinking, in particular, of the case of Sergeant Matthew Telford from Grimsby, who was promoted to the rank of sergeant in June 2009 and killed that November. His family were paid a pension below the level that would have been payable to that rank.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

In such cases, we have instructed that compensation should be paid to increase the pension to the same financial level. The Government intend to change the law so that in future it will be much clearer that pensions should be paid at the level of the acting rank at the time any member of the armed forces is unfortunately killed. I think that that is what the country would expect us to do in order to be fair.

[Mr Donaldson]

I warmly welcome the Secretary of State’s comments and the fact that the Government are committed to dealing with the problem, in the short term through the payment of compensation and in the longer term by changing legislation. That will be widely welcomed within the armed forces community.

I want to mention briefly the pensions payable to Gurkhas. The Secretary of State will be aware of the campaign that the Gurkhas have been pursuing on the level of pension they are paid. I recently met some of their representatives, who told me that there are 10,000 former Gurkhas in Nepal living in poverty—their figures, not mine—and that although those Gurkhas who live in the UK qualify for pension credit, that costs more than would a proper pension. If we are subsidising their pensions with pension credit, why not just pay them an equal pension? I hope that the Secretary of State and his colleagues will look at that. The Gurkhas have made an enormous and valiant contribution to our armed forced over the years. I know that improvements have been made in the level of welfare and support that they receive, but I hope that the Government will seek to address this issue.

I welcome the opportunity to have this debate. We stand ready to support the Government in taking forward the military covenant and want to see them honour all the commitments they have made. I look forward to hearing what the Secretary of State has to say.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

The Government support the terms of the motion on the Order Paper and will support it in the Lobby if necessary, which should give some comfort to my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash). The debate gives us another opportunity to express our support for those who have given, and continue to give, so much to this nation in service and sacrifice.

I would like to pay tribute to Lance Corporal Liam Tasker from 104 Military Working Dog Support Unit, the Royal Army Veterinary Corps, who was killed in action on Tuesday 1 March while on patrol attached to 1st Battalion the Irish Guards. He and his working dog, Theo, who also died, undoubtedly saved the lives of many—military and civilian—by their tireless efforts to find improvised explosive devices.

As the motion has been tabled by the Democratic Unionist party, I also want to pay particular tribute to those men and women from the Province who have served their country around the world with great distinction. As we hold this debate, the Royal Irish are making an enormous contribution to our efforts in Afghanistan, and paying a high price.

The men and women of our armed forces are volunteers. That is what makes their bravery and selfless service so special. They choose to serve, but they do not choose where that service will take them. Whether in Afghanistan, north Africa, as in recent days, or on other current operations around the world, they apply their considerable skills in the national interest to keep the citizens of this country safe. They do not serve for an easy life; they risk life and limb on our behalf, and they sacrifice some of the freedoms that many of us take for granted.

Their families also play a vital role in supporting their loved ones and must deal with some of the hardships of service life. The whole nation, not just the Government, has a moral obligation to those who serve in our armed forces, past and present, and their families. We owe them our gratitude and respect. But we owe them more than kind words; we owe it to them to make sure that they are treated fairly and receive the support they need.

There is no doubt about the general desire in this country to improve and develop the military covenant, the timeless bond between the whole nation and the armed forces. It encompasses those of all ages and social groups in all parts of the UK, those with different politics and those with none at all. On behalf of the Government, we placed at the heart of our programme for government our commitment to rebuild the military covenant. For the first time, a tri-service armed forces covenant is being drafted after wide consultation and is being recognised as existing in the law of the land. We are taking steps to ensure that we will make a real difference to the lives of serving personnel, their families and veterans by putting in place the practical help, which is how that covenant will be judged. In the nine months that we have been in office, we are well on the way to delivering on our commitment, and I will set out some of that progress today.

But let me also be clear about the challenge we face, because we must be balanced and realistic in our aspirations. In the difficult economic circumstances that the coalition inherited, with all parts of society having to make sacrifices, repairing the covenant will not be easy or straightforward. The previous Government left us not only a record national debt that is increasing day in, day out because of the deficit, but a hole in the defence budget itself. However, because of the priority we place on security, the defence budget is making a more modest contribution to deficit reduction than almost all other Departments.

We have still had to take difficult decisions in the comprehensive spending review and the strategic defence and security review that will have repercussions for some members of the armed forces and their families. These include, for instance, decisions on pay and allowances and, as we discussed in the House yesterday, the decisions to reduce the size of the armed forces establishment. I regret that we have had to take some of these measures, just as I regret the need to cut the defence budget as a whole and some of the measures that we are having to take across Government to pull the nation back from the brink of bankruptcy.

The previous Government’s disastrous economic legacy means that there is simply not the money and flexibility to do all that we would like to do as quickly as we would like to do it, but where we can act early to repair the covenant we are doing so. In our nine months in office we have already made great strides in improving the conditions for those who serve on the front line. One of the first actions taken by the new Government was the doubling of the operational allowance that had been paid under the previous Government to over £5,000 for a typical six-month tour. We have changed the rules on rest and recuperation so that any days of leave lost due to delays in the air bridge or any other operational requirements will be added to post-tour leave.

We will provide university and further education scholarships, from the academic year that began in September 2010, to the children of members of the armed forces who have been killed since 1990. We have included 36,000 service children as part of the pupil premium, recognising the uniqueness of service life and its effect on service children and service communities. Because the unseen mental wounds of war have too often gone undiagnosed and untreated, and because the pace and nature of operations over the last decade mean that more could be suffering in silence, we have made mental health care a key priority. We have committed an extra £20 million in the SDSR for health care and are pressing ahead with implementing the recommendations made by my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison).

The Department of Health is commissioning 30 whole-time equivalent veterans mental health professionals to deliver improved NHS mental health services to veterans, including introducing structured mental health surveillance inquiries to routine service medical examinations and to all discharge medicals. They will work under the direction of the armed forces networks and forge links with health and other statutory agencies and with the voluntary sector.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

On the subject of those returning from Afghanistan and Iraq with emotional problems and trauma, it is all very well to have a system in place, but is there a monitoring system so that someone can follow up on a person who is at home on their own and who sometimes faces all that trauma and horror on their own?

[Dr Fox]

Indeed. As I say, those professionals will work under the direction of the armed forces networks and forge links with health and other statutory agencies and with the voluntary sector. I was going on to say that they will also undertake outreach work to identify cases and refer individuals to veterans organisations and to other professionals. In addition, a new 24-hour veterans mental health helpline is now being switched on and will be formally launched later this month.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct, because the safety net will not be of full value unless people know how to access it. That means advertising what is available, ensuring that there are joined-up networks throughout government and that, at the point of discharge from the armed forces and later on through outreach work, we are able to look at those who are most at risk.

The previous Government and the American Government have done a great deal of work on how to identify individuals who are at risk, and that is an ongoing scientific project. Western Governments in general are trying to grasp the issue to see whether they can clearly find those who might be at higher risk and put in place additional checks to follow them through the system. As that information becomes available, the Government will take it forward.

[Andrew Percy]

I thank the Secretary of State for his comments, and for his action on mental health support. Organisations such as the one I mentioned, the national Gulf Veterans and families association, which is based in east Yorkshire, will welcome that news, but will he confirm what I think he is saying, which is that that service will be provided not just for recent veterans but for veterans of older conflicts, and that the Department will work as hard as possible to identify such people, many of whom are difficult to identify?

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, and that is the exact aim behind what the Government are doing. As more evidence comes to light about how we can follow up on people who might be at higher risk, we might stop people falling through the net that is meant to be there to protect them. When we look at the issues of homelessness, the prison population and so on, we need to ensure that we make available the appropriate care at the time that it is needed in the cycle, so that we can obtain the best outcomes for service veterans.

[Mr David Hamilton]

I agree wholeheartedly that the after-care service needs to be upped; that is important. The health service in Scotland is devolved, however, so will the right hon. Gentleman take care to ensure that there is no disconnect between the MOD, the devolved Parliaments and the health service?

[Dr Fox]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. The armed forces represent the whole United Kingdom, and it would be a dereliction of duty if we did not ensure that the same service were available throughout the United Kingdom. It is therefore incumbent on the devolved Administrations to work with the Government to ensure that those mechanisms are put in place. My colleagues and I will certainly take opportunities to talk to the devolved Governments, as we do, and on that issue we will want to be as close to uniformity as possible, given of course their freedoms to put different mechanisms in place. He makes a very good point, however, and I shall ensure that I reinforce it when I next meet the devolved bodies.

As I said, we are about to launch formally the new 24-hour veterans mental health helpline, which will be operated by the Rethink charity on behalf of Combat Stress and funded by the Department of Health. We believe that it will help to tackle one of the most difficult aspects of mental health care by creating an environment where those who fear that they are suffering from mental problems can get in touch with someone who understands not only the problems themselves, but the stigma that some veterans still feel is attached to coming forward. This goes back to the point that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) made. We have to ensure that there are services, and that those who need them are willing and able to access them, because that is what ultimately determines the outcome. Such initiatives show how we are working effectively with other agencies—whether Government or charities—to provide the services that people need.

The role of service personnel families is not always so visible, but it too is crucial to our defence effort. Service families bear a lot of the pressure. From the five years that I worked as a doctor with service families, I know the pressure that they can be under, and it is often invisible to those outside the armed forces. They share the burden of frequent moves, sometimes at short notice, with disruption to careers and to children’s education. They often share the experience of service accommodation, and when their loved one is away on operational service, sometimes in dangerous circumstances, they in particular deserve our understanding and support, given their vital role in ensuring that our operations are a success.

[Bob Russell]

Families not only need our understanding and support, but decent houses in which to live. Does the Secretary of State agree that the quality of some family housing is not acceptable, and that it is one area in which the Government have to find the money? If we are to send soldiers to put their lives on the line in Afghanistan, the least we can do is ensure that their families back home have decent accommodation.

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend makes a useful point, which I shall come to in a moment.

The wide range of welfare support for families is being expanded. As set out in the defence and security review, the Ministry of Defence is starting work on developing options for a new employment model. Its aim is to provide an overall package, including career structure, pay, allowances and accommodation policies, that offers greater domestic stability, helping spouses to pursue their own careers and supporting children’s education, while still allowing for mobility when it is essential to defence requirements.

We would dearly like to do more, for example on improving service family accommodation, which my hon. Friend mentions and we know to be one of the greatest concerns to service families. About £61.6 million has been allocated in the current financial year for the upgrade of, and the improvement programmes for, service accommodation. That will include upgrading some 800 service family homes to the top standard, with a further 4,000 properties benefiting from other improvements such as new kitchens, bathrooms, double glazing and so on.

It would be dishonest of me, however, if I were not to say that we must recognise that we cannot go as far or as fast as we would like to, given the economic situation that we have inherited, but we can and will do what we can, when we can.

[Ian Paisley]

I thank the Secretary of State for giving way on the important issue of housing. On a related issue, service personnel ultimately could be made redundant and return to the private sector, putting pressure on the private sector housing market. People might then want to get on to the Housing Executive’s list in Northern Ireland. Could some effort be made to ensure that former Army personnel are entitled to additional points, so that they can obtain public housing? It is crucial to ensure that our military personnel are not turned down or moved down the list when they should be entitled to public housing.

[Dr Fox]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very compelling point, with which I have some strong personal sympathy. I shall take the issue back and have it looked at on a cross-government basis to see whether it is indeed possible to make the general change that he mentions. If there is a specific problem relating to Northern Ireland, I am very willing to talk to Members about it to see whether there needs to be anything specific to Northern Ireland in any changes that might be made. He makes a good, valid and reasonable point that will probably get fairly widespread support across the country as a whole.

Another part of the UK’s defence capability, and thus the armed forces community, is our reserve forces. The Ministry of Defence is responsible for ensuring that reservists are treated fairly and with respect, and that they are valued. In the drafting of the armed forces covenant, reserves have been considered equally alongside regulars. That will set the tone for Government policy aimed at improving the support available for serving and former members of the armed forces, and the families who carry so much of the burden, especially, as we remember today, in the event of injury or death.

Rebuilding the military covenant is not just a matter for the Ministry of Defence. Supporting the men and women of our armed forces, during and after their service, is very much the business of the whole Government—and indeed, as my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) said, of the whole of our society. The measures that I have described show how my colleagues the Secretaries of State for Health, for Education and for Business, Innovation and Skills—to name but three—are fully engaged in this wider endeavour. The devolved Administrations, local authorities, and even individual GPs all have an important role to play. The public sector does not do all the work; the service and ex-service charities are, rightly, also part of that network of support that the former service person has a right to expect.

We need to ensure that progress is made year on year. That is why we have brought forward measures in the Armed Forces Bill requiring the Defence Secretary to present an armed forces covenant report to Parliament every year. I hope to deliver the first of those reports in the autumn. It will not simply be about the relationship between the Government and the armed forces but, as I have set out, a wider picture of how the covenant is being respected across the whole of our society, including, as has been pointed out in this debate already, the charitable sector, which has a role to play. The right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) asked about that specific element. We have decided that a tri-service covenant should be developed along with the armed forces, the charitable sector and interested parties, including veterans, and that the Secretary of State will be answerable for how that is put into practice.

There is a genuine debate to be had about other ways of doing this, and it is fair that we consider those today. Some believe that we should have definable rights, enshrined in law; if so, they should make that clear. However, when rights are defined in law, they become justiciable. There are potentially complex and expensive legal implications for that, right up to interpretations by the European Court; Members would not expect me to go into private grief on that particular subject. If one were to apply rights in law, one would need to consider, given that the military covenant is not delivered only by Government, the implications for the charitable sector in terms of its legal obligations for delivery.

It is a complex argument, and there are perfectly reasonable points of view to be expressed on either side. The Government have decided that the best way to ensure that this is recognised in law is to develop the tri-service covenant and for the Secretary of State to make a statement so that Parliament as a whole can assess how it is being delivered. Ultimately, although we in this House will have a lot of debate about process, what matters is outcome and whether service personnel and veterans are getting an improvement in what society as a whole has promised to deliver, and wants to deliver, to them.

I welcome the support in this House for members of the armed forces community. That is why the Government support this motion, just as I hope the House supports the positive measures we are taking. The coalition Government will continue to rebuild the armed forces covenant. I wish we could go faster, but we will go as fast as we can.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

I believe the Confederation of British Service and Ex-service Organisations is working with the Veterans Minister to consider how we can get better co-ordination between those charities, which will be very important, especially when the clientele of some of the smaller charities pass away over the next few years. I am thinking, for example, of the Association of Wrens, which I believe has an end-date by which it will wind itself up and merge with other naval service charities. I put on record again my thanks to the individuals involved in such charities.

The right hon. Member for Lagan Valley mentioned the covenant, which it is important to consider. The previous Government were quite clear in our Command Paper about where our work on that would go next, and the Green Paper that I produced in 2008 considered ways of embedding in law the covenant and other matters covered in the Command Paper. I am sad that the Government are not following through on that work, and I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the Prime Minister’s commitment on the deck of the Ark Royal is in sharp contrast with what has happened in practice.

The opportunity provided by the Armed Forces Bill is being missed, because the covenant is not being enshrined in law. Members have mentioned the Royal British Legion, which clearly feels let down. It saddened me that when I tabled an amendment to the Bill in Committee a few weeks ago, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats voted against it. That was a missed opportunity, and we need to revisit the matter.

[Dr Fox]

rose—

[Mr Jones]

If the Secretary of State is rethinking the matter, I will very much welcome it.

[Dr Fox]

This has been a very open debate so far. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can explain to me whether, in his eyes, putting the military covenant into law means creating specific, definable rights for certain members of society. Will he give us an example of what sort of rights those might be, and what legal advice the Opposition have been given about the justiciability of such rights?

[Mr Jones]

If the Secretary of State has looked at our Green Paper, he will have seen what I was proposing. I agree that we should not create a feast for lawyers, but we wanted to ensure, for example, priority access in the health service, which we believed could be legally enforceable. My recent amendment suggested that the local government ombudsman should be responsible, as was suggested in the Green Paper. I accept that there is resistance to that, not from the Ministry of Defence but from other Departments. However, people ask whether veterans should get special treatment, and, in my opinion, they should.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I want to talk about what the military covenant really means. Obviously, it is a contract between the state and individuals who put on uniform in its service, but what does the state require of our servicemen and women? Let us be quite clear. When required, the state directs those who are in the armed forces to obey orders and advance against the enemy, even when there is a high chance of their being killed. They are not allowed to debate the matter, and they are under compulsion. If they refuse, they may be court-martialled—in the past, they may even have been shot or ended up on a gibbet.

May I remind hon. Members of my hero, Wing Commander Guy Gibson? On the night of 16 May 1943, 19 specially modified Lancasters from 617 Squadron, led by Guy Gibson, attacked the three dams in the Ruhr on Operation Chastise. They did so from 60 feet, at 220 mph, in darkness and against considerable Nazi opposition. Of those 19 Lancasters, eight were lost, and 56 RAF personnel were killed. Along with Gibson, who won the Victoria cross, 32 airmen received decorations.

Not one of those 56 men wanted to die, and I suspect that very few—if any—wanted to get into the aircraft that night in May 1943. Any man or woman who has been in combat would be the very last person to say that they were not frightened sick when it happened, but the state required Guy Gibson and his gallant men to overcome their natural instincts, move their feet, which must have felt like lead, and get into those aircraft and fly. They knew that their chances of survival were not great—42% of them lost their lives—but they did what was required by the state.

My old battalion, 1st Battalion the Cheshire Regiment, which is now called 1st Battalion the Mercian Regiment, returned from Afghanistan last autumn. Its casualty rate was pretty horrific: 12 dead and nearly 100 wounded, and seven triple amputees now have two legs between them. In the front sections of an infantry battalion in Afghanistan, the chances of being killed or wounded are 25% to 30%—I am talking about the people who do the business of our military in Afghanistan at the front.

The right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) might not be allowed technically to be my friend in this Chamber, but he is certainly my friend when we are outside. He reminded the House of the Ballykelly bomb on 6 December 1982, when I was a company commander, but may I remind the House that 35 soldiers under my command were wounded, as well as civilians? They too remain our responsibility—I feel that acutely.

[Dr Fox]

Like all right hon. and hon. Members, I am extremely impressed and moved by what my hon. Friend is saying. However, it is not the state alone—meaning the governors of the state—that required sacrifices either in the second world war or in Afghanistan; it is the people of the United Kingdom as a whole. That is why the military covenant exists not only between the state and the armed forces, but between the whole nation and the armed forces.

[Bob Stewart]

I certainly accept my right hon. Friend’s endorsement. Our nation requires our armed forces to do things that they would not normally do as civilians.

Sometimes, our front-line soldiers in Afghanistan chuck up as they load their weapons. I understand that, having been semi-paralysed with fear myself on occasions, and most certainly on front lines in Bosnia. I suspect that that feeling of paralysis and hopelessness was also felt by the dambuster squadron as they climbed into their Lancasters. However, that is the nation’s requirement of our servicemen and servicewomen. To me, it is pretty stark—it is the ultimate uncompromising requirement—but what should our service personnel get back? The state has always had a clear duty to look after service personnel or personnel who are killed or wounded in its service. That duty may not have been fulfilled in the past, and sometimes, even if it was, it was not done very well, but the requirement has always existed.

Early formal recognition of that duty was the establishment by Charles II of the Royal hospital in Chelsea in 1681. Today, we think of Chelsea pensioners as magnificent old soldiers in red coats—the boys of the old brigade—but that hospital was established specifically to look after wounded soldiers regardless of their age. By March 1692, the 476 so-called in-pensioners were mainly the wounded, not necessarily the old. The state—or the nation, if the Secretary of State will forgive me—has recognised its side of the bargain for a long time, which obviously continues to this day.

The military covenant is now widely recognised as a term that refers to the mutual obligation between the people—I am being careful now—and its armed forces. It was possibly first officially coined in an MOD pamphlet entitled, “Soldiering: the Military Covenant”, which I first saw in April 2000.

The covenant covers a lot of ground, some of which we have debated today, but in essence it fundamentally means that service personnel should be treated fairly and properly. I want to concentrate on what happens if a serviceman or servicewoman is killed or hurt, rather than on the softer aspects of the covenant. I know I speak for the House when I say that we want nothing but the best for those personnel, but let me emphasise what I consider to be our nation’s duty to those who are killed or wounded in its service.

First, on those who make the ultimate sacrifice, the mortal remains of our service personnel who are killed must be treated with the greatest dignity and respect, which I think they are. Our system is now fully supportive of grieving relatives, which includes helping, if required, with funerals as sensitively as possible.

We are also getting better at looking after families when the funeral is over. Service widows and families must have proper financial provision and guidance for as long as they need it thereafter. That also extends to the children. I am very pleased that the Secretary of State has emphasised the setting up of an educational scheme and the attempt to look carefully at how families are looked after, but we have to keep on top of this, because as time goes by we tend to forget.

Secondly, I want to talk about the wounded. The ratio of killed to wounded on service in Afghanistan—this is based on my old battalion—was about one dead to nearly 10 wounded. I am told that the Americans’ figure is higher. That is an incredible improvement since the days when I first put on the uniform in 1967. When I was at the Royal Military Academy, I was taught that when planning a military operation, we should expect about one person to be killed for every three wounded—survival rates were not great. That was the case right the way through the early years in Northern Ireland, but now we have a much better survival rate. The ratio of dead to wounded now is—let us not be exact—one in 10 or 11. The precise figure does not matter; what matters is that we are recovering people from near-death experiences and getting them off the battlefield properly.

Tremendous advances have been made in keeping our wounded alive. That was a great achievement of the previous Government, some of whose members who helped to engineer it are here. We can blame the previous Government for many things, but on the medical front I take my hat off to them. The way in which we deal with our casualties is terribly important. It is also important when they take their uniforms off. That is something else we have to keep an eye on—they have to be looked after for the rest of their lives.

I am especially interested in the long-term care of the disabled. I accept that the NHS has responsibility and does its best, but that system still requires attention and help. I understand and accept now—with some emotional reluctance, I have to say—that the days of exclusive service hospitals are over. Our war disabled require the very best care until the end of their days, and I, for one, will spend all my time in the House doing my best to improve the long-term care of our wounded.

I will stop there. I am very grateful to the House authorities and the Democratic Unionist party for continuing to bring the matter of the military covenant before the House. It is a matter very dear to my heart. However, looking around the Chamber, I can see that I am certainly not alone; I know that there is tremendous support for it on both sides. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak.

Armed Forces (Redundancies)

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on redundancies in the armed forces.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

On 19 October last year, in the strategic defence and security review, the Government announced reductions in the size of the armed forces, reducing the Army by 7,000, the RAF by 5,000 and the Navy by 5,000. This was to reshape the armed forces for Future Force 2020 and also to respond to the budgetary pressures resulting from the need to reduce the inherited deficit and deal with the black hole in the Ministry of Defence’s finances.

Following the announcement, normal procedure for proceeding with the redundancies was followed. Let me briefly describe this. The armed forces modelled the manpower that they needed for Future Force 2020 and consulted their own people on the best methods and time scales for achieving that. The families federations have been kept fully informed. Yesterday’s announcements were simply part of that process. Following yesterday’s announcement of the RAF programme, the Army and Navy will follow on 4 April with their programmes. The Army and RAF will give individuals notice that they will be made redundant on 1 September, followed by the Navy on 30 September. The exact timing of further tranches has not yet been decided.

Afghanistan is the Government’s defence main effort. Decisions in the SDSR were therefore weighted towards the protection of capability for the mission in Afghanistan, which, as the Prime Minister has said, will see us transition to full Afghan lead in 2014.

Redundancy is never a painless process, whether in the armed forces or elsewhere, and it is sad to see committed and patriotic men and women lose their jobs. But in that process, it is essential that they are made fully aware of the options available and the time scales involved, which means that a timetable needs to be adhered to, for the sake of themselves and their families. It would simply be wrong to alter that timetable for the convenience of the Government. Personnel were expecting the announcement this week, and to delay it for political expediency would have been to betray their trust. Difficult though it may be, under this Government political convenience will not be the final arbiter of our decisions.

[Mr Murphy]

I start by associating myself with the Prime Minister’s condolences regarding Private Dean Hutchinson and Private Robert Wood.

This is the second time in recent weeks that the Secretary of State has had to come to Parliament in this way. Surely it is not too much to ask that when he is making announcements about 11,000 armed forces redundancies he should volunteer to come here, and not have to be summoned to appear.

Yesterday there was a written ministerial statement, which contained a fraction of the information that was briefed to the media. Some will think that that was because, on the day when the Government were discussing a no-fly zone over Libya, they did not want to defend in the Commons the 2,700 redundancies in the RAF—but I think it is more serious than that. In November the Secretary of State said at the Dispatch Box:

“no one currently serving in Afghanistan, or on notice to deploy, will face compulsory redundancy.”—[Official Report, 8 November 2010; Vol. 518, c. 13.]

I always try to give the Secretary of State the benefit of the doubt, as he knows, so I believed him. More importantly, the armed forces and their families believed him. In making that promise he gave his word, and in breaking his pledge he is playing with words.

Why did the Ministry of Defence brief the media yet keep Parliament in the dark? How many people who have served in Afghanistan will be made redundant, and will the Secretary of State repeat his guarantee that no one currently serving in Afghanistan will be sacked on their return? Unless he can answer those questions and give that guarantee, it is disgraceful that some of our forces taking on the Taliban today will be welcomed home as heroes by the public, and sacked by their Government.

[Dr Fox]

First, as I have just explained to the House, this is not a new announcement but simply procedure following on from the announcements made in the SDSR. Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman is correct to say that this is the second time that we have had an urgent question on this subject, and I noticed that when the Opposition last had the opportunity to ask a question, they were not asking for details about these particular schemes but wanted to talk about e-mails and other peripheral issues. For them suddenly to come forward with a new-found interest in this particular issue strikes me as the most sad and cynical opportunism.

I have repeatedly made it clear that we have compulsory redundancy schemes in the armed forces because we need to maintain the rank structure and skills base required. When compulsory redundancies are announced, they will not affect those in receipt of the operational allowance, those within six months of deploying or those on post-operational tour leave, as I made clear in the House.

[Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

Sadly, the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition have to refer to the fallen on occasions. As we speak, a military funeral is taking place at St Peter’s church in Colchester, so the statement that we have been given is very important.

The Secretary of State has twice now given the House assurances that members of 16 Air Assault Brigade from my constituency serving in Afghanistan will not be made compulsorily redundant. Does he agree, however, that the manner in which the Ministry of Defence is handling matters causes concern not only to serving personnel in Afghanistan but to their families back home?

[Dr Fox]

The processes being followed are those that the armed forces would normally follow when setting out redundancies. There is never a good time to announce redundancies. It is particularly politically difficult when our armed forces are in combat in Afghanistan. However, if we are to keep faith with our personnel, we must follow the timetables that we have set out for them. It would be easy to delay announcements at the inconvenience of our service personnel simply for the convenience for politicians. That is entirely the wrong way to proceed.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

The Secretary of State knows that Moray is the most defence-dependent constituency in the UK, that a great many people at RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Kinloss have just learned that they are to be made redundant, and that 14 Squadron has just returned from Afghanistan, had a homecoming parade, and is now being disbanded early. Does he understand that that bad news is compounded by the delayed decision and announcement about the future of RAF Lossiemouth?

[Dr Fox]

At the risk of repeating and repeating myself, I say that the hon. Gentleman makes the point well about the basing review. It will report when we have decided on the best balance across the United Kingdom for the wider interests of UK defence.

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

What impact will the reviews have on the current terms of reference for the review of the reserves?

[Dr Fox]

The review of reserves continues, looking at the financial and capability implications and the wider footprint. It is not directly affected by the results, but on implementation, we would of course have to take into account the shape of the armed forces resulting from the SDSR decisions.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State is trying to tell us that all the decisions spring from his strategic defence review—but is that true? He did not tell us about the cuts to the Tornado when he cut the Harrier. When the Prime Minister told us that he would protect the infantry, he did not tell us that he would cut the Royal Marines. The Secretary of State, many other Members and I know that decisions are still being made on further cuts in the Ministry of Defence. He criticised us for not having a strategic defence review, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that we still have not had one. He must open up the decision and take some proper, publicly accountable strategic decisions about the shape of our armed forces.

[Dr Fox]

If I may correct one minor inaccuracy, I said that we had decided to cut 17,000 jobs in the armed forces. In fact, the work that the armed forces carried out means that the figure is considerably smaller. Instead of 7,000, it is 5,000 for the Army; instead of 5,000, it is 3,300 for the Navy.

Of course, the budgetary pressures continue. As any Labour politician knows, the previous Government left Ministry of Defence finances in an absolute shambles. The problem will not be tackled overnight.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

No one should doubt my right hon. Friend’s commitment to the welfare of our armed services, but there is a concern that the resources devoted to the Ministry of Defence are top-heavy relative to our troops on the ground. Will he remind the House of the measures that he is taking to ensure that the Ministry of Defence is streamlined?

[Dr Fox]

It is worth remembering when we discuss those matters that although we have had reductions of some 11,000 in the armed forces, we are looking at reductions of 25,000 in the civil service to bring the MOD into a much better and more efficient shape and to help control the budget. My hon. Friend is correct that we will also look at rank structure to ensure that we are not making reductions in the more junior ranks while maintaining those at a higher level in the armed forces.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State tell the House what the cost to the Department of the redundancy payments in his announcement will be?

[Dr Fox]

I am not able to give that figure yet, because the armed forces themselves have not decided which posts will be lost. When we can provide a figure to the House, we will certainly do so.

[Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con)]

I know how angry the nonsense in the Army a couple of weeks ago, when sergeant-majors and warrant officers were sacked by e-mail, made the Secretary of State. Newark, my constituency, will feel the effect of the RAF redundancies, in particular. Will my right hon. Friend assure me that there will be no further such nonsense when the next announcements are made?

[Dr Fox]

What I set out today is the correct procedure that should be followed. What we discussed on a previous occasion is what happens when it is not followed. It would have been easy for the Government to say, “We will not go ahead with this programme this week; we will not have those face-to-face interviews with the personnel concerned because it is politically inconvenient for us at this time.” That would be the wrong way to proceed. We have a duty of care to those who are being made redundant to ensure that processes and timetables are followed, and that they and their families get the maximum certainty in the circumstances.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I am sure that the Secretary of State draws no pleasure from this painful process, but further to the point made by the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson), I and many others struggle to understand why the redundancies are not included in a single package with the base closure programme in July. Would it not have made more sense to do this in a more joined-up way?

[Dr Fox]

Work will always be ongoing. As well as the basing review, we have the Army returning from Germany and reform of the procurement process, on which I last week set out some additional measures. This is an ongoing process and there will be second and third order changes as a result of the SDSR for some time to come. The Department requires huge downsizing—it has an inherited budgetary deficit of £38 billion—and we cannot expect to do that overnight. Had we done things more quickly, I would no doubt have been accused of rushing the base review as well.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

In the past when we have managed headcount through redundancies, we have also turned off the tap on recruitment and training, with disastrous long-standing consequences. Will my right hon. Friend assure me that we will continue to try to attract the highest-quality young people to our armed forces and to train them properly?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Fox]

We will continue to recruit the highest calibre possible. Some reductions in redundancies have been achieved by slowing down the number of those coming into the armed forces, but we cannot avoid redundancies through that process, because we need to continue to recruit, not least for the campaign in Afghanistan.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

In the light of the Secretary of State’s announcement that 170 trainee pilots will not be retained by the RAF, will he say how much it costs to train such a pilot in the first place?

[Dr Fox]

I am not sure that that figure is available, but I will try to find out. It is important that when we are unable to continue training, we will offer those concerned alternative careers inside the RAF where possible. However, it is inevitable that if we reduce the number of aircraft, we will have a reduced requirement for pilots. Those trainees will not continue to the end of their traineeship because there has been a reduction in the size of the aircraft fleet, which, as I said, is a necessary part of the spending reductions required to bring the budget into balance. We did not create that budget; we inherited it.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

My constituency is home to most of the Salisbury plain garrison towns. We will wait with eager anticipation to see the final numbers in September, but can the Secretary of State assure the House, first, that those who are injured in the line of duty will not be in the first line for redundancies, and secondly, that we will do all we can to support those who leave the armed forces in moving into other roles, particularly in teaching and in mentoring young children?

[Dr Fox]

My hon. Friend makes two very important points. First, clearly, when those who have been injured are still recovering, there will be no question of redundancy. Secondly, it makes a great deal of sense to encourage such mentoring programmes. We often hear that young people do not have sufficient role models, and getting people from the armed forces into our schools will provide young people with the sort of role models that will be of real value to them.

[Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (Lab)]

Can the Secretary of State repeat his previous pledge that no member of the armed forces who is currently serving in Afghanistan will be made redundant?

[Dr Fox]

When we finally get to the point when redundancies are announced—that is some way off yet—nobody who is in pre-deployment training, or deployed and in receipt of the operational allowance, or recovering from injuries sustained on operations, or on post-operational leave, will be made compulsorily redundant.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

It is sad news that 13 Squadron at RAF Marham is to be disbanded, although I understand that this will not lead to automatic redundancies. Further to earlier questions about the basing review, which the Secretary of State has said will be announced in the spring or summer, can he confirm that it will not only cover the short term and the Tornado, but look at where the joint strike fighter will be based, to provide long-term security for the armed forces personnel in my constituency?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Fox]

The basing review, when it is announced, will examine what we require in line with Future Force 2020 and the strategy set out in the SDSR, and it is only appropriate that it should do so. It is much better that we should have a clearly set out aim-point of 2020 and be working towards that. Given the shambolic budget and the deficit that we inherited, we all recognised that we would not be able to make changes overnight. In 10 months we have gone quite far in returning that budgetary imbalance to a more sustainable position, and we intend to do the same with the basing review.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The scale and pace of the cuts that the coalition has decided to implement go far deeper and faster than is necessary to deal with the deficit. Can the Secretary of State say whether those cuts are permanent?

[Dr Fox]

The fact is that there has not been even a hint of an apology from the Opposition about the appalling situation that they left behind. Nobody on the Government Benches came into politics to see cuts in our armed forces; they were forced on us by the utter incompetence of the Government who went before us. I also noticed that in the question asked earlier by the right hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy), there was no hint of what Labour policy is, or what the Opposition might do to reverse any of the cuts.

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

Will any of the changes affect our ability to assist in any potential no-fly agreement over Libya?

[Dr Fox]

As of this moment the changes are being considered—they will be announced later in the year—so obviously none will impact on any short-term decision about a no-fly zone in Libya.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

At a time of enormous uncertainty—not just about Libya, but about the middle east and northern Africa—does the Secretary of State agree that making long-term strategic reductions in our capabilities for short-term cost reasons will hearten the Taliban and encourage their resurgence in future years, in the knowledge that we are in disarray over piecemeal successive cuts to our strategic capability?

[Dr Fox]

The idea that these are short-term cuts for short-term reasons beggars belief. Next year we will spend more on debt interest than on defence, the Foreign Office and aid put together. Even if we eliminate the deficit in this Parliament, the debt interest will still go up, so future generations will still be living with the legacy of Labour’s economic incompetence. This is not something short term; this is long-term pain imposed on the British people by the economic incompetence of another socialist Government.

[Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con)]

The Secretary of State will be aware that Defence Medical Services have for some time struggled to maintain the correct numbers of certain clinical specialists. Can he assure the House that any potential reduction in size of Defence Medical Services will not jeopardise its ability to grow and retain those key clinical personnel?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Fox]

It is a key point that we have those appropriate personnel. Indeed, in the review of the reserves, which has already been mentioned, I am particularly concerned to ensure that we retain full access to medical specialties. However, although we may be saturated in terms of secondary care, there is still scope to improve the primary care offered in the armed forces through the reserves.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

What assurances can the Secretary of State give senior military personnel who have expressed their opinion on this matter that, following the announcement of the decisions, we will have the capability to deal with the potential threat in the near future?

[Dr Fox]

The hon. Gentleman asks a good question—and as I have explained, that is why we have compulsory redundancies in the armed forces. We cannot simply accept the people who volunteer for redundancy, because we have a duty to maintain the rank structure and the appropriate skills. That is why we will allow people to volunteer for the scheme, but ultimately we may not be able to accept all who volunteer, and may have compulsory redundancies elsewhere instead. It is for the very reason that the hon. Gentleman raises—because we have to maintain the skills and structures involved—that we have a compulsory scheme in statute in this country.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

As a former RAF officer who took advantage of a previous redundancy scheme, I was pleased to visit 1466 Air Cadet Squadron in Holmfirth recently. Many of the young people there aspire to serve in the Royal Air Force. They are the potential brave servicemen and women of the future, so will the Secretary of State confirm that we will keep their morale up?

[Dr Fox]

It is always worth pointing out to those who wish to have a career in the armed forces that there is a bright future for them. Under Future Force 2020, not only will Britain have the fourth biggest defence budget in the world, but the RAF will see the number of Typhoons grow and the introduction of the new joint strike fighter, and we will also upgrade our lift capability through the introduction of the A400M. I would certainly encourage anyone who wants to continue with their careers to do so, but I also warn Opposition Members that playing politics with redundancies or other issues that have a clear impact on morale is extremely dangerous.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Yesterday the Secretary of State tabled a statement outlining his plans for members of the armed forces and their redundancies. He told the House that nobody preparing to deploy in Afghanistan, serving in Afghanistan or recently returned from Afghanistan would be made redundant. Within minutes the media were reporting that this was not the case. He seems to be dodging the issue today, so will he now repeat that exact pledge on the Floor of the House?

[Dr Fox]

I will say it for the third time in the House, although I should say to the hon. Gentleman that I can only explain it to him; I cannot understand it for him. At the point where any compulsory redundancies are made—that will be some time later in the year, as I have made clear in the timetable already set out by the armed forces—no one serving in Afghanistan in receipt of the operational allowance, no one preparing to go there, nobody on post-deployment leave and nobody who is recovering will be made compulsorily redundant.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

Can my right hon. Friend explain why 2 Tornado Squadron was earmarked for removal from service this week?

[Dr Fox]

The squadrons that were removed from service were not covered by the SDSR announcement; what happened was the result of the previous Government’s decision in the 2009 planning round, which is now being implemented.

[Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab)]

We must not forget that 11,000 of our bravest men and women have lost their jobs because of the Secretary of State’s decision. Many of them, and their families, watching or listening will find his tone rather distasteful and smug at this time. We must remember that they are men and women who risk their lives every day in defence of this great country. They deserve a lot more respect than they are being shown in the Secretary of State’s answers.

[Dr Fox]

Clearly we are going to disagree on our approach, because what the hon. Gentleman calls smug, I would call angry. We are very angry indeed that we were left with a £38 billion hole in the Ministry of Defence and a massive national deficit, the interest payments on which are bigger than our defence budget. We are angry, but we are absolutely determined to get the situation under control, and then we will urge the British people never again to elect such an economically incompetent Government as the previous one.

[Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend was kind enough to write to me yesterday following his statement, knowing that RAF Cranwell is in my constituency. All serving RAF personnel in my constituency well understand the £38 billion hole that we were left with by the last Government. However, RAF Cranwell is considered the home of the Royal Air Force. Can he give me an assurance today that it will always be considered the home of the Royal Air Force?

[Dr Fox]

That is the tide of history, and nothing I could say or do would change it. However, I reiterate to my hon. and learned Friend that we must go through the proper processes where redundancies are concerned. We must stick to the timetables concerned, because that is part of our duty of care to the men and women who serve in our armed forces. We cannot have arbitrary dates set to suit a political timetable, at the expense of our armed forces. That would be quite wrong.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

I understood from yesterday’s statement that 170 RAF trainee pilots would not be retained. In his response to my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock), the Secretary of State seemed to imply that they would be redeployed in the RAF. Can he confirm whether we are talking about cuts, with those pilots leaving the RAF, or whether they will be used for something else?

[Dr Fox]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady. The reductions are a consequence of reducing the number of aircraft in the RAF, so there is also a reduction in the number of pilots needed, and therefore a reduction in the number of pilots in training. If alternative employment within the RAF can be found for those individuals, we will attempt to provide it.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State be kind enough to outline the terms of a typical redundancy package? What is the reserve liability for those unfortunate enough to be made redundant?

[Dr Fox]

Because there is such a wide range of individuals who might be leaving the armed forces, it is difficult to say what a typical package would be. It will also range across the three services, as well as depending on seniority. I will attempt to get for my hon. Friend an indication of what the numbers might look like, although I cannot guarantee that will be able to do so with any great accuracy.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

The Secretary of State’s commitment to armed services personnel who will be deployed in the future is welcome. However, does that commitment extend to armed service personnel currently deployed in Afghanistan, such as the Royal Irish Regiment, and what consultation will the right hon. Gentleman carry out with the regional representatives of those armed forces personnel?

[Dr Fox]

In looking at their personnel, the armed forces will want to consider a range of issues, not least which personnel they want to retain and which personnel they might accept for compulsory redundancy. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to raise any specific issues with any of the service chiefs, I am sure that they would be happy to listen to his representations.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

Has my right hon. Friend given any consideration to providing extra support for personnel made redundant, to help them move out of the military and secure jobs in alternative employment?

[Dr Fox]

As I said some time ago in the House, it takes time to transform a civilian into a member of the armed forces, and it takes time to transform a member of the armed forces back into a civilian. It is absolutely necessary to give our full support to all individuals who are leaving. We have set out some particular programmes relating, for example, to those who could move into teaching or mentoring, and we will continue to look at how many programmes we can bring in to ensure that the transition back to civilian life is as smooth and productive as possible.

[David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)]

I am staggered by the short memories of Labour Members about the scale of the economic challenges facing the country and the Department as a result of the incompetence of the last Government. Will my right hon. Friend tell us whether other trusted allies are also realigning their military forces in the light of economic challenges and changing strategic priorities?

[Dr Fox]

All countries need to continue to do so. The fact that the United Kingdom, with the world’s fourth biggest defence budget—still above 2% of GDP spend, which is our NATO commitment—has been able to do so, and to announce investment in programmes ranging from our submarine programme, our lift capability and our fast jets while making changes to Army structure, is a testament to the skills in our armed forces. Notwithstanding the horrendous financial situation that we inherited from the previous Government, the skills of our armed forces are contributing hugely to our ability to reach a path in 2020 whereby this country can hold its head high on defence.

[Mr Speaker]

I must thank the Secretary of State and all right hon. and hon. Members for their succinctness, which enabled every colleague who wanted to take part in these exchanges to do so.

Armed Forces Pay Review Body (Public Appointments)

Liam Fox Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

I am pleased to announce that I have appointed Mr Paul Kernaghan CBE QPM, Vice-Admiral Sir Richard Ibbotson KBE CB DSC and Professor Peter Dolton as members of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body, each for a three-year term of office commencing on 1 March 2011. The appointments have been made in accordance with the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments code of practice.

Armed Forces Redundancy Process

Liam Fox Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

The strategic defence and security review (SDSR) set out in October 2010 long-term plans for our armed forces, based on a detailed analysis of the future risk and threats to our national security, but also recognising the dire fiscal situation inherited by this Government. That new 2020 force structure will be more agile and flexible, better able to respond to new threats such as cyber-warfare, terrorism and managing the consequences of failed or failing states. As the SDSR made clear, however, that force structure will require fewer people: the combined size of the Royal Navy, the Army and the Royal Air Force will fall by some 17,000 by 2015. These changes are about delivering the future force we need, not about today’s operational capabilities.

Some of this reduction will be achieved by slowing down recruitment—but the long-term health of the services requires that we maintain a steady influx of new recruits. And so we estimate that up to around 11,000 personnel will need to be made redundant. In formal terms, redundancy schemes for the armed forces are compulsory. But there will be scope for individuals to volunteer to be considered for redundancy and where possible we will meet our manpower target through volunteers. But some difficult choices are sadly inevitable.

The SDSR set out some changes to our long-term requirements for fast jets, multi-engine aircraft and helicopters. As a result, our future requirement for pilots has reduced. Some 514 individuals currently being trained are potentially affected by these changes. Starting today and over the next 10 days, those trainee pilots will be informed of their future in the RAF. Some 344 will continue with their pilot training. But I very much regret to inform the House that up to 170 will not. Some of those individuals will be offered alternative appointments. But sadly many will have to be made redundant.

Today, the RAF will also publish in some detail the specialist trades in which reductions in numbers need to be achieved, and in which it will be seeking volunteers for redundancy. Detailed information on the terms on offer, including the compensation package, will be made available online. Similar information will be published for the Army and Navy on 4 April 2011.

Once the deadline for response has passed, selection boards will sit for each of the three services to determine whether those who have volunteered should be released and which other individuals should also regrettably be made redundant to enable the manning targets to be achieved. We aim to inform all those individuals selected for redundancy of that decision in September 2011—on 1 September for the Army and RAF, and 30 September for the Navy. Those voluntarily leaving the armed forces will do so within six months, non-volunteers will do so within a year.

The Department will need to balance extremely carefully the needs of the individual with the needs of our armed forces. And I am determined that this very difficult process will be handled with the utmost sensitivity and professionalism. No one who is deployed on operations, recently returned from operations or is preparing to deploy on operations will be made redundant unless they have volunteered. Nor will those undergoing rehabilitation from injury be considered. But inevitably some incredibly difficult decisions will have to be made to ensure the long-term health and balance of our armed forces.

In Afghanistan, and as has been seen in recent days in Libya, our armed forces constantly perform great acts of heroism, selflessness and valour to keep us safe. As a country, we have an absolute responsibility to ensure that those who risk their lives in that way are properly looked after while they serve our country but equally importantly when they return to civilian life. For all those leaving the armed forces as a result of these changes, every effort will be made to assist in what can often be a difficult transition. A comprehensive package of support and advice on housing, finance and finding a job will be made available. Over the coming months. Ministers will scrutinise those plans in detail, working closely with domestic Departments, to ensure they are as good as can be achieved. Our people deserve nothing less.

Defence Infrastructure Organisation

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 16th February 2011 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

I am announcing today that I intend to set up a new defence infrastructure organisation (DIO) on 1 April this year. We will now launch a consultation process with the MOD trade unions.

The new organisation will bring together some 7,000 staff currently working on construction, maintenance and utilities management and the disposal of land and buildings across the Department.

By making these changes we expect to save about 2,500 posts by 2014 and some £1.2 billion over the first four years alone, without reducing the effectiveness or reliability of the service we deliver. This measure will make a significant contribution to the civilian staff reductions and efficiency measures set out last October in the strategic defence and security review.

This is the first such change emerging from the work of the defence reform unit under Lord Levene designed to overhaul the structure of the Department. It is a significant change, and demonstrates the radical approach to reorganisation and resourcing which we are taking to ensure that we maximise the amount of the defence budget made available for the front line. I hope to announce further such changes in the near future.

Military Covenant

Liam Fox Excerpts

Wednesday 16th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Murphy]

I do not wish to reopen that debate, but my hon. Friend is free to make that point whenever he wishes to do so.

It is clear that to date, the Government’s policy on the covenant and their policy on the RPI-CPI switch are policies without a patron. No Government Minister has defended them, yet Ministers expect Back-Benchers to suspend their consciences and their sense of right and wrong to vote through a policy that they have not backed.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

If the change from RPI to CPI in relation to the armed forces is so iniquitous, will the right hon. Gentleman give an unequivocal guarantee that Labour will reverse it?

[Mr Murphy]

I remember being in the Government and playing that game of saying to the Opposition, “Name your next manifesto,” but it is a desperate tactic. It took me 10 years to use that tactic, but it has taken the Defence Secretary only a few months. Today, he is at the Dispatch Box but will not even stand up for his own policy. Let me give him another opportunity to do so. Does he think it fair that when the deficit is temporary, this cut should be permanent? I am giving him a chance to articulate his own policy.

[Dr Fox]

This merely proves the economic illiteracy of the Labour party. Even when the deficit is going down, the total debt is going up and the debt repayment is going up. It will take a very long time, even when we are into positive growth, to see the debt coming down. The Labour party knows no more about economics in opposition than it knew in government.

[Mr Murphy]

This comes from the right hon. Gentleman who, when in opposition, demanded more spending on absolutely everything; even in the midst of financial crisis, he was demanding more and more spending. If this move is driven by deficit reduction, the Government should come forward with a temporary measure rather than a permanent change.

Finally, the military covenant goes to the heart of the relationship between the military, society and the Government. It should never be the exclusive property of one political party, but these permanent cuts undermine the Government’s claim to be honouring the military covenant. Sir Michael Moore, chairman of the Forces Pension Society has said:

“I have never seen a government erode the morale of the Armed Forces so quickly.”

That is a worrying position—one that we all hope to see reversed.

The truth is that this Government have lost the courage of the conviction and conscience they had in their manifesto. One day in June last year summarises this Government’s approach to the covenant. On 25 June 2010, the Prime Minister stood on the decks of the Ark Royal, surrounded by members of the Royal Navy, with Harrier jets as a backdrop, and promised a new military covenant that was written into the law of the land. Parliament did not get a vote on the decision to scrap the Ark Royal and Parliament did not get the chance to express its view on the grounding of the Harrier fleet. Today, however, Parliament has the chance to make its voice heard. We should say it loud and clear, fulfil the Conservative party manifesto pledge and define the military covenant in law.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox)]

Let me too begin by expressing our condolences to the family and friends of Private Lewis Hendry, 3rd Battalion the Parachute Regiment; Private Conrad Lewis, 4th Battalion the Parachute Regiment; Lance Corporal Kyle Marshall, 2nd Battalion the Parachute Regiment; Private Dean Hutchinson, 9th Regiment the Royal Logistic Corps; and Private Robert Wood, 17th Port and Maritime Regiment the Royal Logistic Corps, all of whom have died in action in Afghanistan. Every death is a personal tragedy; they are not simply numbers, and their loss is felt by families and friends. We in this House remember them all in our thoughts and prayers.

There is no doubt about the general desire in this country to improve and develop the armed forces covenant. It encompasses those of all ages and social groups, those with different politics and those with none. It does not and cannot exist in the abstract, however. It cannot be a wish list separated from the economic reality in which we find ourselves. A covenant between the armed forces and the British people cannot ignore the financial predicament in which the British people and their Government find themselves.

The starting point of this debate has to take account of the economic situation inherited by the coalition Government and the state in which the armed forces and the Ministry of Defence find themselves at the end of 13 years of Labour Government. In short, the issue for the Opposition, as set out in their motion, is one of credibility, so we should examine the credibility of Labour Members on the issues that the shadow Defence Secretary described as important.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Dr Fox]

In a moment.

There are three charges that still hang around the necks of Labour when it comes to defence, the armed forces and the military covenant. In 13 years of power, their response to equipping our forces was often too little, too late; their spending priorities were wrong; and there was too much waste and inadequate budgetary control.

We have learned from the Chilcot inquiry—an independent inquiry—that it was purely for political reasons that the Labour Government failed to order enough equipment, including body armour, for troops in the lead-up to the Iraq war. They did not want to send the message that they were preparing for war, and the result was under-prepared, under-equipped forces sent into conflict.

In 2006, they failed to send enough troops and equipment into Helmand province and were painfully slow at providing more capable armoured vehicles to counter improved explosive devices. That led to a number of high-profile subsequent resignations from the Army, as has been pointed out. They went 12 years without a defence review, even though, according to numerous former Defence Ministers and service chiefs speaking at the Chilcot inquiry, the 1998 SDR was never properly funded. They overstretched our armed forces by fighting two wars on a peacetime budget.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

rose—

[Dr Fox]

I will give way in a moment.

The Labour Government overspent and overheated an equipment programme that contributed to a £38 billion black hole in the defence budget. In Labour’s final year in power, the MOD saw a record overspend of £3.3 billion in the equipment programme. In fact, we inherited an equipment programme that has its top 15 projects £8.8 billion over budget and a cumulative delay of 32 years. When we were fighting two wars, their idea of commitment to defence and our armed forces was to appoint four different Defence Secretaries in four years, including one who served simultaneously as Defence Secretary and Secretary of State for Scotland.

Labour left a situation in which 42% of service single living accommodation in the UK, and 52% of overseas single living accommodation, was in the worst grade on a four-point scale—although in a speech that lasted half an hour, the shadow Defence Secretary did not once mention the quality of accommodation for our armed forces.

With all that going on, Labour Defence Secretaries spent almost £250,000 on modern art for the Ministry of Defence. As former Chief of the General Staff General Sir Mike Jackson said in his autobiography, they

“preferred to spend on abstract art money which might otherwise have directly benefited soldiers and their families. It may seem a small point, but to me it was so indicative of the cultural divide in the MoD”.

The list goes on. In this country, we judge politicians not by their words but by their actions. The Labour Government had 13 years to put matters right; we have had nine months so far, and I will set out what we have done already.

[Mr MacShane]

I am glad to give the Secretary of State a moment to calm down from his election speech. On 11 January last year, he wrote to Mr Yeomans in Clevedon that the Conservative Government would review the rules on awarding medals, particularly the proposed national defence medal, which has been supported by nearly 200 right hon. and hon. Members in an early-day motion. Earlier this week, however, the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, Lord Astor of Hever, stated in the other place that the Ministry of Defence would not review the role or membership of the committee that would award the national defence medal if it is granted. That is a remarkable U-turn in one year. Will the Secretary of State address that point and discuss it with his ministerial colleague?

[Dr Fox]

I can give the right hon. Gentleman the news that we have completed the review on military medals, and today I signed off the report, which will be published, and no doubt discussed in the House, before Easter. He will get a clear answer to his questions.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

I would like to judge the Secretary of State by his actions rather than his words. What progress is he making towards the establishment of a Government-funded post-traumatic stress treatment programme as promised in the armed forces manifesto?

[Dr Fox]

In a moment I shall set out how we have made progress on all the manifesto commitments. The hon. Gentleman will be pleasantly surprised.

[Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con)]

Did the Secretary of State know about the evidence given by officials who served the Labour Government that it was the ministerial decision to delay the SDR that made the black hole that was left so big and the difficulty of getting matters in order so much greater?

[Dr Fox]

We could spend a great deal of time detailing the failures of the previous Government. Labour Members constantly talk about making changes as though we were in a vacuum or, as my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) said, at year zero. We are in a very difficult economic predicament largely of their making, yet they talk about not only the military covenant but almost everything else as if there were no financial cost and as if we should not take what is happening in the economy into account when it comes to pensions and programmes in the Ministry of Defence.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that in the short term, while the economic situation is so bad, top priority should be given to the education of the children of those who have fallen in action or who have been so grievously wounded that their future earning power will never be restored?

[Dr Fox]

As I might have expected, my hon. Friend makes a very good point. In the programme for government, we listed a number of measures that will start the process of rebuilding the covenant, and I am pleased to be able to set out to him those that we have already accomplished.

As I have said on a number of occasions in the House, no decisions taken in the strategic defence and security review will have a negative impact on our mission in Afghanistan. In fact, we have already made great strides in improving the conditions for those serving on the front line. In our nine months in office, we have doubled the operational allowance that was paid under the previous Government to over £5,000. Labour could have done so, but did not. We have changed the rules on rest and recuperation, so any lost days of leave—due to delays in the air bridge or any other operational requirements—will be added to post-tour leave. The previous Government could have done that, but they chose not to. We have also pledged to provide university and further education scholarships to the children of members of the armed forces who have been killed since 1990. The previous Government could have chosen to do so, but in 13 years they did not. The current Government have now included 36,000 service children as part of the pupil premium, recognising the uniqueness of service life and its effect on service children and service communities. Labour could have done so, but did not in 13 years.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

rose—

[Dr Fox]

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will tell us why not.

[John McDonnell]

I want to concentrate on a more serious issue, which I would like the Secretary of State to—[Interruption.] May I complete what I am saying? The Secretary of State has focused on the past Government’s record, of which I have also been critical, but last week the current Government introduced an immigration fees order which I objected to, and which I see has been carried on a deferred Division today. The explanatory notes explain that it introduces for the first time the power for the Government to charge fees for the registration as British citizens of the children born to British armed forces personnel serving abroad. It cannot be right that we are penalising the children and families of service personnel serving abroad on our orders. I ask the Secretary of State to liaise with the Home Secretary to ensure that she exercises her discretion to waive these fees.

[Dr Fox]

I am also aware of some of the implications of that, and my officials have already had discussions about the issue with my Cabinet colleagues. I will write to the hon. Gentleman when I have some progress to report.

[Chris Bryant]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Dr Fox]

Not at the moment.

I have set out a number of areas where the Government have already acted in just nine months. Some £61.6 million has been allocated in the current financial year for the upgrade of, and improvement programmes for, service accommodation. That will include upgrading some 800 service family homes to the top standard, with a further 4,000 properties benefiting from other improvements such as new kitchens and bathrooms.

Of course, in the current tight financial situation priorities must be established. My welfare priority will be mental health. We have accepted in full the mental health plan for service personnel and veterans set out in the report by my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison). That will provide a range of improvements in mental health care, including increasing the number of mental health professionals from mental health trusts looking out for veterans and introducing structured mental health surveillance inquiries into routine service medical examinations and all discharge medicals.

The Government are committed to improving health care for our service personnel and have committed an additional £20 million in the SDSR for this purpose, part of which will be used to deliver further enhanced military mental health care services. I believe this must be our priority because it is all too easy to see the physical wounds of war, but the unseen mental wounds of war have too often gone undiagnosed and untreated, and all our society demands that we do not allow a mental health time bomb to be created.

[Chris Bryant]

rose—

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

rose—

[Dr Fox]

I give way to the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan).

[Jim Sheridan]

The right hon. Gentleman is explaining the promises or pledges in his party manifesto. Do they include his pledge to compensate Christmas Island veterans, many of whom will be watching this debate and wanting an answer?

[Dr Fox]

That was not a commitment in the Conservative manifesto, but Ministers will constantly review the issue, as happened under previous Governments.

[Chris Bryant]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Dr Fox]

We have waited a long time, so I hope it’s a cracker.

[Chris Bryant]

I want to ask the Secretary of State about 160 Brigade. As he knows, it is the Welsh brigade based in Brecon. Secret discussions have been going on over the last few weeks about collapsing the brigade and joining it with the West Midlands, which would mean there was no longer a Welsh brigade. Can he give an absolute assurance that that will not happen?

[Dr Fox]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, there are ongoing discussions in the armed forces, but as he has heard me say on a number of occasions, I am very keen that we have United Kingdom armed forces and that we maintain the footprint as widely as possible across the UK. If he wants to talk to me directly about that, I shall be happy to meet him.

Labour’s legacy means that there is not enough to do all that we would like to do, but we can make a start. None of it alone will instantly rebuild the covenant, but it is a step in the right direction. In the difficult economic circumstances the coalition Government have inherited, where all parts of society are making sacrifices, repairing the covenant will not be straightforward. The armed forces are subject to the difficult decisions we have had to make on pay, pensions and allowances across Government.

Neither the Prime Minister nor I came into politics to see cuts in the armed forces, but we have to deal with the reality of the legacy. Every Department has to make a contribution to deficit reduction and the Ministry of Defence can be no exception. We have to put the economy on the right track for the sake of our national security.

The coalition agreement recognises that we have to do more to ensure that our armed forces and their families have the support they need, and are treated with the dignity they deserve. Some of what we need to do will cost money, and with budgets squeezed, we may not be able to go as quickly as we want, but we will make progress where we can. The recent report on the covenant commissioned by the Prime Minister from the military historian Professor Hew Strachan suggests a number of ways to move forward. We are implementing some of them now and will announce in the near future the other recommendations we support.

As Members know, the military covenant was conceived as an expression of the mutual obligations that exist between the nation, the Army and each individual soldier. In consultation with service charities and others, the Government are rewriting the covenant as a new tri-service document—the armed forces covenant—which expresses the enduring, general principles that should govern the relationship between the nation, the Government and the armed forces community as a whole. It will include all three services, veterans, family members and local communities, thereby broadening the scope of the covenant. We shall publish it in the spring.

The reserve forces form an intrinsic part of the UK’s defence capability and thus the armed forces community. The Ministry of Defence is responsible for ensuring that reservists are treated fairly and with respect, and that they are valued. In the drafting of the armed forces covenant, reserves have been considered equally alongside regulars. That will set the tone for Government policy aimed at improving the support available for serving and former members of the armed forces, and the families who carry so much of the burden, especially, as we remember today, in the event of injury or death.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is an extraordinary situation for the Opposition to call a debate on the military covenant, which by their own admission they cannot define, yet we have heard from my right hon. Friend a clear definition of the covenant, which is being written into the law of the land?

[Dr Fox]

It is surprising that the Opposition should be so desperate for a definition of the military covenant in law, yet fail to produce one themselves. It is just as absurd as their claim that they are trying to implement the Conservative manifesto on the subject. I happen to have the Conservative manifesto of 2010 in my hand and I see no commitment whatever to writing the military covenant into law. Indeed, we have gone further than our manifesto commitment in the coalition agreement by trying to take that forward. It is one of the elements that shows that the coalition Government were able to work together to go further than either party had done in the manifestos that we issued at the general election.

We need to ensure that progress is made, year on year. That is why we have brought forward legislation in the Armed Forces Bill requiring the Defence Secretary to present an armed forces covenant report to Parliament every year. I hope to deliver the first of those reports in the autumn.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Is the Secretary of State saying that his party never made a commitment to enshrining the principles in law? If he is not saying that, will he set out why his position has changed on this difficult subject?

[Dr Fox]

We are for the first time recognising the covenant in law. We are setting it out in law in the Armed Forces Bill that the Secretary of State for Defence will be required to come to the House of Commons, and when we have published the tri-forces covenant, the House of Commons will be able to decide whether the Government have lived up to their part of the bargain. I find it extraordinary that nine months into the new Government, when we are writing that into the law, we get complaints from the Opposition, who did not once try to do so in 13 years in power.

The covenant will set out how we are supporting our armed forces, their families and veterans in key areas such as health care, housing and education. It will be the first time the existence of the armed forces covenant has been recognised in statute. For that, I think all fair-minded people would believe that the coalition Government deserve some credit.

[Mr Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con)]

Although I applaud what the Secretary of State is saying about his support for veterans and former members of the armed forces, may I draw to his attention the case of my constituent, Ann Dexter, whose son Richard Coombes is suffering from dire mental health problems as a consequence of his injury on active service? The Ministry of Defence was ordered by a judge to pay him £130,000 compensation but still, three years later, not all of that compensation has been paid. Will my right hon. Friend look into that case urgently and get back to the family to explain why the Ministry of Defence has not paid the compensation that it was ordered to pay?

[Dr Fox]

I am very surprised that three years after it was ordered by a judge to be paid, that compensation has not been paid. I will certainly look into the case that my hon. and learned Friend mentions.

The Government alone cannot provide all the support required so we are determined to strengthen the links with the charitable sector, which does so much good work, often unsung. In many ways those organisations are also heroes in our countries when it comes to the armed forces. Involving the charitable sector is the only way we can make a reality of the armed forces covenant, because the duty of care is on all of us, not simply the Government.

From now on, however, the Government are obliged to report progress on the covenant to Parliament annually. That will ensure that this Government, and indeed all future Governments, are held to account by Parliament. I made it clear last month on Second Reading of the Armed Forces Bill that the external reference group, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne), will also continue to monitor Government progress. But it is about progress on the covenant on all sides, not just the Government’s. The covenant is not just between the Government and the armed forces. It is a covenant with the whole of society. That is why I find the external reference group to be of such value. It will bring independence and clear-mindedness.

[Sandra Osborne]

When the Secretary of State refers to communities, does that include local communities where there are currently armed forces bases? What about the contribution that they have made over the years, and what about the economic impact on those communities of the closure of bases?

[Dr Fox]

As the hon. Lady knows, we are spending a great deal of time and effort getting the balance of the bases correct, primarily for our national security needs, but we will also take into account the social and other impacts that the changes will have. The hon. Gentleman from the Scottish National party who is normally in his seat usually intervenes at this point. We are aware of the changes—

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

[Dr Fox]

Wrong one.

The point is well made by the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock. We understand the problems that we face, but it was inevitable when we had to make reductions under the SDSR that there would be changes to the basing. We are sympathetic to the local needs that she mentions.

[Bob Russell]

The Secretary of State will join me in mentioning a body that, as far as I recall, has not yet been referred to—the reserves and Territorials, without whom our actions in Afghanistan would be all the poorer.

[Dr Fox]

I realise that I might have a soporific effect on Members, so perhaps the hon. Gentleman missed my reference to the importance of the reserves. The Government are acutely aware of their importance and the part they play in the wider security of our country.

[Jim Shannon]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Dr Fox]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, as I rather ignored him a moment ago.

[Jim Shannon]

I speak not as an Irish or Scottish nationalist, but as a Northern Ireland Unionist. I know that the Secretary of State has already responded on the need to look after those with health and mental health conditions, but I have recently met people who had lost limbs, whether legs or arms, so will he indicate what help will be available for those people, because they have had the trauma of the physical disablement and of the resulting mental disablement? I am keen to hear what he will do to help those people.

[Dr Fox]

Those who suffer traumatic amputations, and often multiple traumatic amputations, increasingly get very high-quality care in this country, both from what the military and the NHS are doing. [Interruption.] Members on the Opposition Front Bench say that that is thanks to the previous Government, and I acknowledge their work on that front. With regard to the interface between the NHS and other services, we are again working increasingly to ensure that we get constructive action between them. Any Member who has visited the medical service or Headley Court will realise just what a high-quality service our armed forced get in this country. It is something of which the whole country, irrespective of politics, should be proud.

Looking after people who are currently serving is only part of the covenant; the duty of care does not end when active service ends. The community of veterans in Britain is estimated to be around 5 million strong. The vast majority of men and women who serve make the transition to civilian life successfully. Many of the skills they learn in the armed forces are highly sought after, as are their character traits: self-discipline, self-reliance and leadership. However, for a small number the transition is not so easy. Some find it difficult to get work or struggle to fit in. Others may suffer more serious problems, both physical and mental, as a result of their service, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) has pointed out. Those are the people who most need our help.

First, we need to give people the help they need when they leave. It takes time to turn a civilian into a soldier, so we should take time to turn a soldier into a civilian. Our resettlement programme helps service leavers to navigate civilian life; everything from finding a job, to benefits, education and retraining. We are making sure that it is focused on those who need it most.

For example, ex-service personnel now get more support to study at university. The Department for Education is drawing up plans to create a new programme called “Troops to Teachers” to get experienced, high-quality ex-service personnel into the teaching profession. In a country where it is often claimed that there are not enough role models, believe me there are plenty in the armed forces.

Secondly, when a veteran falls on hard times, there should be somewhere to turn. The problems can result from debt, homelessness, addiction or mental illness resulting from their service. Such difficulties can occur years after leaving the services, so we need a proper partnership between all arms of government, national and local, and with the NHS. That means ensuring that veterans get fair access to local housing schemes, providing more money and more nurses for mental health and working with the charitable sector to get the right support to the right people at the right time.

Having worked as a doctor for some years with service personnel and their families, I have seen at first hand some of the difficulties and stress surrounding service life. Many of the pressures are the same faced by ordinary families up and down the country, but others are unique. Those have to be dealt with sensitively and appropriately.

[Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State is being very gracious, and I do appreciate him letting me in.

Will the right hon. Gentleman be a little clearer with me about the definition of “military covenant”? In the Bill Committee last week, the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the right hon. Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan) said that he thought the military covenant was a “conceptual” thing, a “philosophical statement”, and that it would have

“the same legal position as the service Command Paper”.––[Official Report, Armed Forces Public Bill Committee, 10 February 2011; c. 22.]

Is that the case? Can the Secretary of State give me his definition of the military covenant, so that he might explain to his Minister what it is?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Fox]

I have already set out that what my right hon. Friend says is true. There is a concept of what the covenant means in terms of the relationship between the armed forces and the people of this country, and the responsibility that the people of this country have not only to those serving in the armed forces, but to their families and to veterans. As I said very clearly, however, we are setting out and will publish in the spring a tri-service covenant for the first time. It has to go beyond the traditional covenant, which related to the Army; we are discussing the issue with the charitable sector and the armed forces; and we will publish that new tri-service covenant in the spring.

I am aware of the time constraints, Mr Speaker, so let me just remind the House of the point with which I began. This year, the £43 billion that the UK will spend on debt interest payments—the debt that the previous Government left behind—amounts to more than the Ministry of Defence, Foreign and Commonwealth Office and international aid budgets combined. If we did not have it hanging around our necks, how much more could we do on service housing, health care or allowances? Instead, we will get absolutely nothing back for that money. We cannot sustain that level of deficit and debt without losing our influence in the world or being forced to limit our foreign policy and defence options. If we learned anything as a country from the cold war, it was that the stronger our economy, the better our national security and the more we can do for our service personnel.

Labour’s economic policies created a national security liability that goes behind the hard end of national security and impacts on how we treat our armed forces, their families and the veterans through the covenant. Labour wants to, but cannot, wash away its legacy by ignoring its actions while in government—a Government of whom Opposition Members were a part.

There is no point in the people who left us broke complaining that we are not doing enough. There is no point in the people who had 13 years to deliver, but failed to, telling us that we have not done enough in nine months. The shadow Defence Secretary is a very decent man, but he represents a party that failed in its duty to the armed forces. It has no creditability on the issues that should have been dealt with when the money was available in earlier years.

Because of the nation’s dreadful finances, we as a Government are being forced to take some tough decisions—including on allowances and on pensions. We do not do so because we want to; we do so because we have to. We do so because, as the outgoing Labour Chief Secretary to the Treasury actually said in his note, “Sorry, there is no money left”. Perhaps it was a joking matter for Labour, but it is deadly serious for the armed forces.

The coalition Government are taking the difficult decisions required to deal with Labour’s legacy, and we will continue to rebuild the armed forces covenant. I wish we could go faster, but we will go as fast as we can. Opposition Members got us into this mess; this Government will get us out of it.