English Devolution

Jim McMahon Excerpts

Monday 16th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Local Government and English Devolution (Jim McMahon)]

With permission, I would like to make a statement on the publication of the Government’s English devolution White Paper.

This Government were elected on the promise of change, and we are determined to transform our economy and our country through a decade of reform and national renewal that reverses the chaos and decline that we inherited. We will rebuild Britain from the ground up, so that it works for working people, through a mission-led plan for change that unlocks growth and raises living standards in every region. We will deliver new homes, jobs and opportunities for all by matching investment with reform to improve local services, and to maximise the impact of every penny we spend.

The British people deserve an economy that works for the whole country, and to have control over the things that matter to them. That is why we are moving power out of Westminster and putting it back into the hands of those who know their area best. The White Paper that we have published today sets out the means through which we want to achieve that, backed up by our landmark English devolution Bill, which will finally redress the imbalance of power between this place and communities up and down the country.

This change cannot be delivered soon enough, because for all the promises of levelling up, after 14 years, our nations remain economically divided, with living standards in many parts of the country stagnating. We have an economy that hoards potential and a politics that hoards power. As a former councillor and council leader, I have seen the immediate and tangible difference that local leadership can make. However, I also recognise the frustration that local leaders face in delivering the change that their areas need. In fact, it mirrors the frustration that local people feel when they cannot effect change in their neighbourhood or on their high street. That hits at the heart of what it means to live a decent life. Pride of place and security are rights too often denied in the places that need them the most. This Government are determined to end the top-down approach to decision making in this country, and to replace it with a principle of partnership.

The last Labour Government began the process of change by creating the London Mayor, the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Senedd and the Northern Ireland Assembly. I saw the transformational impact of empowered local leadership in Greater Manchester when in 2014, a decade ago, I was one of the local council leaders who worked in co-operation to agree the first English devolution agreement outside London—an agreement that created the combined authority, which has delivered genuine change under the leadership of an elected Mayor, working hand in glove with local leaders.

Crucially, none of the now 12-strong mayors would claim that they act alone. Whether they are attracting investment in clean carbon and renewable energy, growing digital and creative industries, bringing buses back under public control, or tackling violence against women and girls, all would point to solid local partnerships and the importance of local government in delivering change, but the truth in England is that the process of devolution remains unfinished. Today, we are introducing to the House the measures to finally get the job done.

At its core, this White Paper sets out how the Government will strengthen and widen the mayoral model of devolution across England, shifting power, decision making and money away from Westminster in a completely new way of governing and driving growth. We are empowering more Mayors by introducing integrated funding settlements, and by giving them a statutory role in the rail network, and greater control over strategic planning, housing funding and skills training, so that they can deliver change that local people can see and benefit from. Ultimately, our goal is mayoral devolution that means that powers can be used to shape local labour markets, integrated transport systems, clusters of businesses, and housing development. That is the sort of strategic decision-making that is not possible over a smaller geographic area. By creating strategic authorities—a new tier of local government—we will give our cities and regions a bigger voice in getting the resources and support that they need.

The Government will shortly set out their devolution priority programme for areas that stand ready to progress devolution on an accelerated timescale, and a plan for inaugural mayoral elections to take place in May 2026. Each of those areas will have an elected mayor sitting on the Council of the Nations and Regions. We will work with those areas that are already in discussions with the Government to confirm their position. To those areas that are ready to move at pace, we say: come forward now. Be part of this movement. Be part of this moment.

We understand that devolution is a journey, and that some areas will need time to decide what course to follow. We want to walk alongside all areas—areas defined locally, not from those at the centre with a map—as they take the first step to realising the potential of devolution, for instance through a foundation agreement to unlock new powers. Our ambition is clear; we will legislate for a new power of ministerial directive that allows the Government to create strategic authorities where absolutely necessary, if local agreement has not been possible, to achieve full coverage of devolution across England. We will deliver a new constitutional settlement for England that makes devolution the default setting, with an ambitious devolution framework secured in law, guaranteeing powers for each level of devolution. All that will be underpinned by improvements to accountability, including an outcomes framework for integrated settlements, so that the system remains fit for purpose as we devolve more powers and funding.

None of this reform can be achieved without strong local government. Councils are the bedrock of our state. They are critical to driving growth and delivering local public services that people can rely on, but they have been neglected for too long. That is why we are establishing a proper partnership with local leaders through multi-year funding settlements, and moving away from farcical bidding wars for limited ring-fenced funding pots. We will give councils the respect and powers that they deserve and need to deliver the missions and the plan for change, so that change is keenly felt in every community. We said that we would reset the relationship between central and local government, and we meant it. We will give councils the certainty and stability that they need to plan ahead and prioritise their budgets, and to tackle local issues through public sector reform and prevention, rather than through more expensive crisis management, for which taxpayers are paying more and more, often for worsening outcomes. We have to tackle that head-on.

It is important that councils be the right size and shape to serve the people they represent, with simpler structures that people can better understand. Through our bold programme of unitarisation, as announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Budget, we will ensure that local government reorganisation and devolution can be delivered in tandem as soon as possible. We look forward to areas coming forward with their own proposals. This statement gives the clear direction that local governments have been asked for, and my door is always open for discussions with colleagues about how that will look and feel in their area. Although I recognise that this will be a challenging process for some, for many there is growing agreement that the time has come for change.

I am under no illusion about the scale of the task that we face in delivering more power into the hands of local leaders, but we are committed to resetting the relationship with local and regional government, and to working with local leaders to deliver the change that the country voted for; that is what the electorate will judge this Government on. Placed alongside the work that we are progressing on fixing the broken audit system, rebuilding the standards regime, and bringing forward plans for community power, this plan shows that the Government are determined to get our house in order and ensure a top-to-bottom redistribution of power in England, as we reset our economy, restore local government, and rebuild our country from the ground up, so that it works, finally, for working people. That is what it means to take back control, and that is what we will deliver. I commend this statement to the House.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim McMahon]

I will come to some of the questions raised, but let nobody in the Chamber take lessons and lectures from the Conservatives when it comes to the perilous state that local government has been left in. Let us talk about the councils that were going bust left, right and centre on their watch. Let us talk about the fiscal discipline on 1,000-audit backlogs. What does that mean? It means £100 billion of public money that they could not account for, which held up the signing off of the national accounts. That was their legacy, and they talk about being custodians of public money—they did not even know where the money was.

What about the crisis that was building up in adult and children’s social care and in homelessness? At a time when we should have been thinking about prevention and reform and getting ahead of the problem, essentially the previous Government were making matters worse, not better. When Conservative Members talk about their legacy and being on the side of councillors, we should ask which Government it was that eroded the standards regime—its teeth were put completely to one side—leaving councillors open to abuse and intimidation and turning council chambers into hostile, toxic environments. Which Government was it that made councillors publish their home addresses when they were facing death threats?

We are doing the work now to repair the foundations of local government, giving it the funding that is needed. After a decade of year-by-year funding, we have given local government a multi-year financial settlement so that it can get its house in order as part of the rebuilding work. That is what is needed now: grown-up politics, a plan to fix the country and a plan to put local government back on its feet. But just doing that is not enough; we have to break the centralising system.

If a local authority wanted £1 million for a local project, the previous Government made them compete with their neighbouring council for a limited supply of money. The bidding wars that took place wasted millions of pounds of public money, and in the end they did not deliver on their core promise of levelling up. That was the agenda, and it has got to change. We have to change that cap-in-hand, parent-child relationship where power is hoarded at the centre.

The people queuing up to have conversations about reforming public services and devolving powers to mayoral combined authorities may not be Conservative Front Benchers, but they are Conservative council leaders who recognise that they finally have a Government on their side, willing to work in partnership to make the changes where the previous Government failed.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Chair of the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee.

[Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for the statement. It is about how we bring local leaders back to the agenda and back to the central aims that they have been complaining about over the last 14 years. It is important that any devolution reforms build trust among local people, who rely on vital services from housing and planning to social care; the Minister must keep that in mind as he is going through the reforms.

Ultimately, some councils may fear that residents’ voices in smaller district areas will be lost if they are absorbed into larger unitary authorities. Will the Minister outline how he will ensure that residents do not feel disenfranchised by losing representation in their community? Will he assure the House that, should residents choose not to adopt a mayoral model, they will not be disadvantaged?

We know that our frontline services are at breaking point, as the Minister outlined, and many will welcome the multi-year settlement, but we do not want to see adult social care and temporary accommodation—all those areas—becoming stuck between a disbanding district authority and a nebulous unitary authority. Will the Minister assure the House that there will be proper accountability during the reorganisation and that we will not see local residents and councillors left in limbo?

[Jim McMahon]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for that very important point about how we maintain public trust and confidence in a period of change. First, local government representations to Government will be self-organised within counties, and we will receive the recommendations and requests that come forward. We will write to all 21 areas in scope to invite them to make representations to be part of the first wave priority programme. From the conversations that we have had, we expect a significant number of local authorities to want to be part of that reorganisation. But to be clear, that is not something that we are imposing. We are writing out and local areas are self-organising, because they understand that reform and modernisation are central.

When it comes to not losing a local voice, the White Paper makes it very clear that the devolution offer is not just about creating new structures, and it is certainly not about creating new politicians. This has to be a genuine shift of power. There is a big section on community power, because a lot of people—and this may even transcend the previous Government—do not feel power in the places where they live. Quite often they feel that things are done to them and, when they see the decline of high streets and town centres, they feel that the change is going one way, and it is not good. The paper is about rebuilding local community power. Our expectation in the White Paper is clear that, regardless of the size of local authority, every council—including existing unitaries—will work out a way of getting to those local communities at neighbourhood level, and reflect in a democratic way and a public service way how best to give local people a voice.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that time is at a premium, and I want to be able to get everybody in.

[Jim McMahon]

I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for her question, and for her service as an elected council member for a period. I understand that there will be concerns about the move to larger unitaries, but the fact is that there is a two-tier premium that the taxpayer is paying. At a time when resources are limited, we have a responsibility to take money from councils’ overhead costs in the back office and bring them to the frontline to give people good neighbourhood services. I suspect that if people were asked, “Would you prefer the existing two-tier system or more money being directed at local public services?”, most would want the money to go into local public services. However, there is a balance here, and it is for local areas to find it.

We are very clear in the White Paper that we want to move away from councillors being perceived as back-bench. We want to reform them, essentially, as frontline councillors —as the conveners of a community, with greater power and influence and the ability to get things done.

On social care, an additional £4 billion was provided in the Budget, with the provisional settlement to be announced this week. Of that amount, £600 million is for a recovery grant to go to areas with high deprivation but low tax bases, to ensure that we rebalance fairness in the system.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Wyre) (Lab)]

Although the Minister said in his statement that the proposal was the end of a top-down approach from central Government, to many of my constituents it looks like a one-size-fits-all model that works for Greater Manchester, which he represents quite ably, but does not necessarily work for the rural English counties. What assurances can the Minister give my constituents—and me, frankly—that this approach will not be imposed on local areas against their will? How will he measure consent from a local area that this is the approach they want?

[Jim McMahon]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and for securing a Westminster Hall debate on this very issue. The Government do not accept the one-size-fits-all argument any more than an argument that councillors work in some areas but not others, and that Members of Parliament work in some areas but not others. In the end, when given the powers and resources, mayors can achieve change in partnership with local leaders.

We are not creating super-councils. We are creating a strategic authority that will give power from this place downwards, giving councillors far more power. On how we will do it, I can say that in Lancashire, in our drive to widen devolution across the country, the principle is for foundation authorities; of course, Lancashire has already agreed to a level 2, which, in the White Paper, would be the equivalent of a foundation authority. In that sense, it already has devolution in place.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

The Government say that they want to end the top-down approach. How does that square with a district council such as West Lindsey in Lincolnshire being denied any say in massive solar farms or wind turbines? Will the Minister do me a favour and confirm that his aim is to pass more power back to district councils? Indeed, will he promise that he will not unilaterally abolish them just because we have a new mayor for Lincolnshire?

[Jim McMahon]

It would be a bit rude to diminish the powers of the Mayor of Greater Lincolnshire before they are in place, especially as I will move the order enabling the election to happen, and we want them to be a success. We could have taken a different view—it was a legacy agreement that was carried over from the general election—but I recognise genuinely that the leaders there, who are leaders of different parties from my own, worked in good faith to reach an agreement with the previous Government that we felt needed to be honoured. That needs to be the tone of all such conversations. We need to take party politics out of the conversation, which can be difficult to do in this place. Those are not the conversations that I have with council leaders and councillors across the country, who genuinely want to put party politics to one side and to work in the interests of their local community. On the question of power over local planning decisions, if local councils want power, they must have a plan.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

Decisions taken in this place are subject to rigorous scrutiny and accountability, but recent history in several areas shows that that is not always the case with local decision making—not all councillors and mayors are paragons of virtue. As we dissolve more powers, can my hon. Friend explain what levels of scrutiny and accountability will be built into his plans?

[Jim McMahon]

It is a very important point, and we were mindful of that concern because devolution in England has been developed by deal, rather than with a clear framework from the outset, so there are natural gaps. I do not decry, by the way, the progress made previously in filling in the map of the midlands and the north of England, but we need to reconcile that now.

If we give more powers and resources downwards, we need to ensure that the checks and balances are robust. There is a lot that we need to do. There are recommendations in the White Paper on the principles of a local public accounts committee, for example, so that public spending can be brought into scope. We are also looking at oversight for the bodies that strategic authorities establish, such as trading companies or joint ventures, to see whether they should be in scope of best value. We are also looking at checks and balances for the officer structure and whether to bring in an accountable officer structure, as in a local authority, to ensure a clear difference between the political and operational leaderships and the powers that each has.

[Mr Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con)]

I welcome the Minister to his place; this is the first opportunity I have had to do so. As the Department will be aware, both Dacorum borough council and Three Rivers district council in my constituency do not have a local plan in place. They are both controlled by the Liberal Democrats. Will the Minister confirm what would happen in the case of his proposed plans? Separate to that, we have local county elections next May. What are his intentions for them? Do they still go ahead? There is a lot of uncertainty. In 2026, how many mayoral elections does he anticipate?

[Jim McMahon]

On local plans, if any areas at this point have failed to get a local plan in place, they are leaving the door open for development to take place without any checks and balances, and in a way that really does take away local power. We are trying to reconcile that and get a balance. I hear quite often about the housing targets that have been set—the 1.5 million new homes. I should say, by the way, that there are a lot of good skilled working-class jobs that go with that 1.5 million new homes. There are 150,000 kids in temporary accommodation who need a home. There are 500 kids in hotels in my constituency who deserve a secure, affordable place to live. There is a bigger crisis here, which is why local plans are so important. Where they are not in place, we will have to look at strategic plans in those areas. We are out to consultation on a number of those points.

On county elections, the letter will go out today to county councils inviting them to make a submission in January. Subject to that submission being robust, it can be part of a priority programme. We will do what the previous Government did and accept the view that if a local authority will not exist in the near future, it makes no sense to have an election to it. However, we will very soon after want to have an election for the shadow authority that will follow, so further detail will follow on that.

[Oliver Ryan (Burnley) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for his White Paper. At the back of it, there are five pages of powers that are not currently enjoyed by Lancashire, as a foundation authority. Will he agree to work with partners in Lancashire to ensure that we can get a deal done and over the line for a mayoral and a reorganisation package? Lancashire’s time is now and, in his words, can we grasp this moment and this movement?

[Jim McMahon]

Well, I am glad somebody was listening! There are huge opportunities in Lancashire. If we think about the work that has been done to secure a mayoral combined authority in Hull and East Yorkshire, and if we think about the opportunities in Cumbria, Cheshire and Lancashire, that completes the map of the north. Our leaders there are already self-organising through the Great North project, chaired by Mayor Kim McGuinness, to lead from the front on inward investment. It would be a shame, given Lancashire’s economic success, particularly on energy and other issues, if it is not part of that agenda. On the organisation, I think most people in Lancashire accept that, after 20 years or more of talking about it, the time had probably come. But it is for local areas to come together and have a plan that is right for their place, and to make a submission to the Government. It is not for the Government to redraw the map of England and impose it on every community. But our ambition is clear and the direction is clear: we absolutely welcome areas making that submission and we want to work towards more mayoral combined authorities.

[Lewis Cocking (Broxbourne) (Con)]

I place on record my thanks to my two district councils, which I wholeheartedly support: Broxbourne and East Herts. Page 17 of the White Paper states that the Government want to create unitary councils of “500,000 or more”. What does “or more” mean? Does that mean I could end up with a “super council” for Hertfordshire covering 1.2 million people, which is not a proposal that I would support?

[Jim McMahon]

In some ways we have to give direction. What we heard during the consultation stage with local government—that includes, by the way, the County Councils Network and the District Councils’ Network—is that the more clarity on a framework that can be provided by central Government upfront, the better for local government to be able to organise. We are very clear that on an efficiency level—if the drive is for efficiency—the 500,000 is roughly the population needed to draw out those efficiencies. In the example that the hon. Gentleman gave, it would not be 1.2 million. It might be two or even three councils, because in areas in discussions about a mayoral combined authority, we have accepted—it is outlined in the White Paper—that there will need to be some flexibility in terms of scale and size of the local authorities that sit under it.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Derbyshire already has a mayor, but we have a two-tier authority. If we cannot get agreement on the size of the unitary authority, will Derbyshire and similar authorities still hold elections next May, and how will my hon. Friend break the impasse if those at county level want one Derbyshire and those in the districts want two or three?

[Jim McMahon]

The assumption is that elections in counties will take place as planned, unless authorities actively approach us to say that they want reorganisation discussions and have proposals that they can work up. In those circumstances, we will take the view that elections to an authority that will not exist should be postponed so that an election for a shadow authority can follow. On Derbyshire, we need to be careful: the Government’s role is to invite and to receive, not to draw the maps, which is for local authorities to do. As my role is quasi-judicial and I will need to take a view on potentially competing proposals, I cannot comment on what individual counties may or may not look like.

[Mr Lee Dillon (Newbury) (LD)]

Councils are clearly on their knees, and I welcome multi-year funding settlements and changes in the grant programme, but will the Minister confirm that the Government will support devolution so that not a penny of councils’ budgets is spent on it and they can focus on frontline services? In his statement, the Minister said that councils could

“take their time to decide on the course they wish to follow”,

but went on to say that the Government would

“legislate…to create strategic authorities”

where they felt that was necessary. How does the Minister square those two sentences?

[Jim McMahon]

This is about partnership, about tone and about how we can work together. Because there has been a fair amount of talk in the sector about reorganisation and devolution, even before the White Paper a number of authorities had approached the Government saying that they wanted to have a conversation about local government reorganisation and/or devolution. We have had to respond that we cannot have a hundred hares running all over the place without a transparent plan and timescale that can be understood so that people can make a judgment about whether this option is right for their area or not. What we will have is a proposal to double-run a devolution priority programme alongside a local government reorganisation, with a key point where those two pieces of work must come together for joint decision making. That will at least mean that every authority knows what stage it has reached, and can make a choice: is it at the right point in the process to opt in, or will it need more time?

The point about the backstop is very important. As I have said, there is no map that we are intending to impose anywhere. Let us suppose that within a region we have an agreement to compile every county bar one, and we reach the end of the current Parliament. In that event, I think it legitimate to say, “Well, there is nowhere else to go.” It is fairly self-explanatory that there will be a fundamental strategic authority in that area, and that is the type of process that we are considering. We are not considering redrawing the map of England and imposing this in one fell swoop. It is about partnership and working with local areas, and so far those conversations have been very fruitful.

[Andy MacNae (Rossendale and Darwen) (Lab)]

I hugely welcome the White Paper. For us who are in the frontline trying to deliver services to our residents under the dysfunctional two-tier system that exists in Lancashire, this is a breath of fresh air. It is exactly what we have been requesting for years. Does the Minister agree that now is the time for Lancashire leaders to put aside short-term personal and political considerations, not to wait for the Bill to be published, and to work with urgency in drawing up proposals for new local government structures that are focused on the needs of residents and, ultimately, bring the highest level of devolution to Lancashire?

[Jim McMahon]

I entirely understand that there are local tensions in Lancashire, to put it mildly, but my experience of council leaders in all parties and at county, district and unitary level has been positive. Even when there are differences, they are shared in a respectful way. I would not underestimate the progress of the level 2 agreement that we have in Lancashire, which will see a devolution of powers relating to, for instance, skills and compulsory purchase orders as a first step towards overall devolution. The agreement contains a commitment that by autumn next year a proposal for a mayoral combined authority will be submitted to the Government, with or without local government reorganisation. We have been very clear about our direction on local government reorganisation, and our expectation is that those in Lancashire and other places have heard about that direction and will act accordingly. In the end, times change. My son’s primary school in Oldham had the Lancashire education committee plaque on it; in Lancashire county hall, there is the Oldham plaque. Times change and boundaries change, but people and communities do not, and the Government who represent them have to be fit for purpose.

[Mr James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con)]

If devolution means anything, it means giving local leaders the right to do things differently. If a future mayor of Essex wants to compete with London by creating a less heavily regulated or less heavily taxed business environment, would that individual have the power to do so under the proposals put forward by the Government?

[Jim McMahon]

It is in the eye of the beholder. If the right hon. Gentleman wants to turn Essex into Monaco, I suspect that it will not happen. But if he is asking for genuine freedoms and flexibilities so that local leaders can make the right decisions to attract investment, assemble sites, invest in infrastructure, and remove barriers to planning and infrastructure, that is absolutely where we are going. On the issue of tax and fiscal devolution, we are very clear that the White Paper represents a moment in time; it is very much the start, not the end. What should be read in the White Paper is an ambition to provide certainty across Government and to make sure that the level of ambition is raised. When the right hon. Gentleman sees the schedule of devolution across the programme and the competencies—which are very important for economic development and regeneration—he will see that there is a lot of scope there.

[Matt Rodda (Reading Central) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome the prospect of the further devolution of powers over transport, housing and other important economic matters. Can the Minister outline the greater scope for using those powers? In Berkshire, we would like to see a western rail link to Heathrow, which would dramatically improve connectivity between Reading, Slough and Heathrow airport. Unfortunately, many other strategic projects have been held up, such as a third bridge for Reading. Will he comment on the potential benefits of devolving these issues?

[Jim McMahon]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I said that this is less about structures and politicians, and more about outcomes, and those are exactly the types of examples that we need to look towards. The real test for many people is, “If I’m standing at the bus stop on a miserable Monday, when it’s raining, does the bus turn up or not?” Having more control over local bus services, through franchising or even public ownership, is part of the offer on the table, but buses alone do not fix the transport system; we also need rail devolution. The White Paper points to an ambitious schedule of devolution when it comes to rail and multimodal transport, and particularly to single ticketing, because, in the end, even if we have co-ordination of transport, it needs to be affordable for people, and different modes of transport need to be linked when it comes to single ticketing. There are definitely opportunities on the transport agenda.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

The Minister will know that in Cumbria we are still going through the process of a reorganisation that happened just 18 months ago. For better or worse, all reorganisations are massively distracting and take people’s eyes off the ball. Does he understand why residents, businesses and everybody else in both parts of Cumbria—we now have two local authorities—are outraged at the thought that a mayoral model might be imposed on us? Is that not the opposite of devolution? Is it not right that local communities should be able to have the devolution that we want? We are up for all the devolution that the Minister will give us, but we do not see why we have to have a top-down mayoral model and be told that we have to have a reorganisation again, five minutes after the last one.

[Jim McMahon]

I pay tribute to leaders in Cumbria for the engagement that we have had with them; I recognise that they have just been through a local government reorganisation and that there has been a lot to settle in the area. They have embraced our conversations with great maturity, and those conversations have been fruitful, but we recognise that different places are at different points. Different places have different pressures that they need to reconcile, which is why we are looking at a priority programme for the areas that will soon be ready to go. We need to get the legislation and consultation in place and make the case to the public. We accept that some areas will need longer.

On mayors, I have been here long enough to see a number of Members stand up and protest against the idea of a mayor, only to pop up a bit later as the candidate for the same position, so I say to people in Cumbria: be careful what you wish for.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I remind the House that we have around 40 minutes, and around 40 Members wish to speak, so please keep answers and questions succinct.

--- Later in debate ---

[Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)]

I welcome the move to devolve to every corner of the United Kingdom, but in relation to the upcoming Cornish devolution discussions, what is the Minister’s vision of how the Government will put into practice the legal obligations to protect and support Cornish national minority status in the same way that minority status is protected for our Celtic cousins in Wales and Scotland?

[Jim McMahon]

I thank Members in Cornwall and the leaders in Cornwall for the discussions that we have had. I know that devolution is an issue that is strongly felt, and that identity in particular is an issue that is strongly felt. We recognise that we need to strike the right balance, so the White Paper will point to a population size that is optimal in our view—in terms of economic footprint, public service alignment and reconciling public service delivery boundaries—but we recognise that in Cornwall, as in Cumbria, we might have to take a more nuanced approach. I will be clear that our view is to have established powers related to integrated settlements and devolved powers of significance. That will come with a mayor, but of course Cornwall has agreed to a level 2 deal and in the current White Paper, that would be a foundation deal as a starter for that journey.

[Dame Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

Whatever our views on the different flavours of local government, surely we in this House can all agree that good local services are delivered when there are excellent, hard-working local councillors who have been democratically elected. At the moment in counties up and down the land, county councillors are campaigning for re-election for four-year terms next May. The matter before us is an important decision for local people to make and it should be part of the discussions in the election campaign next year, so can the Minister take this opportunity to rule out any suggestion that he is cancelling any county council elections next year?

[Jim McMahon]

In all things I try to be direct, and I have been direct in saying that if those councils that come to the Government with a request for reorganisation meet the test and have a credible programme in place, the elections will likely not take place until the year after, because they will be postponed to elect the shadow authority that would replace the county and the districts. We are clear on that. To give the hon. Lady assurance, there will not be a mass cancelling of elections for the sake of it, in the hope and prayer that some councils might come forward for reorganisation. There has to be a balanced and proportionate approach, and that is what we intend to take.

[Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Stoke-on-Trent is already a unitary authority, but it is surrounded on either side by a two-tier district system of Newcastle and Staffordshire Moorlands, who are our friendly neighbours and proud communities but fundamentally different places. Can the Minister set out what will happen to existing unitary authorities? Can he also say how, as part of this review, he will protect the identities of communities who look to a place rather than to a compass point and a county name? And if we are going to have new mayors with new powers, can he set out what the corresponding reduction of Ministers in this place will be to reflect the reduced number of services they will provide?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim McMahon]

On the question of whether we will reduce the number of Ministers, I can easily answer that by saying that that is well above my pay grade, but I hope there will always be a need for a Local Government Minister to oversee, to hold people’s hands and to be a well-wisher. The identity question is really important, and any devolution or reorganisation has to get the balance right. The tests that will be applied are in the White Paper. This is about getting the balance right between ensuring: that the economic footprint, which is the real economy, is recognised; that, as much as possible, there is public service boundary alignment to services across policing, the health service and others; and that we capture identity as much as possible. There will be a trade-off in some cases, but it is for local areas to come forward with the right proposal for their area after due consideration.

[Layla Moran (Oxford West and Abingdon) (LD)]

Of the 42 councils across the country that have increased social homes, four are in Oxfordshire. South Oxfordshire district council has doubled the number of social homes it has delivered over the last 10 years. Meanwhile, Oxford city council next door has halved its number. There are district councils that are doing incredible work, so why should they face finding themselves lumped in with underperforming councils? Surely, rather than having a distracting reorganisation, proper devolution to those councils that are doing well is the way to deliver for local people.

[Jim McMahon]

There is nothing in the White Paper that is about decrying the work that has gone before. In fact, there is a great deal that celebrates the work done by local government, such as the community leadership provided by frontline councillors, council leaders and council executives on a range of issues. They are the builders of devolution, so this is not about something being done to them from the top; it is about local areas coming together and making a request to the Government for local government reorganisation and/or devolution. As a Government, we will work as partners in that development, but we fully appreciate that district councils across England are doing a very good job of delivering good public services, but there also has to be an acceptance that this is not the most efficient way of delivering public services; there are other ways.

[Chris Curtis (Milton Keynes North) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for the ambition he has shown in his statement, particularly on how we can get local authorities to support the building of the 1.5 million homes that this country needs.

Before the White Paper’s publication, the Department saw expressions of interest from various areas. However, some of those initial submissions may no longer reflect the scale of ambition or the devolution options that we now know are available. Can the Minister reassure me that authorities with greater ambition, which are ready to act swiftly in line with the powers and vision outlined in the White Paper, will be given the opportunity to revise their proposals and to fast-track a mayoral model on geographies better suited to delivering results for their residents?

[Jim McMahon]

There were three types of programme on the transition to the new Government. The first were the legacy devolution agreements that were agreed under the previous Government but had not yet passed through Parliament, which we wanted to reconcile. The second were the areas that we wanted to target—by and large, areas in the north of England to complete the map of the north and to populate that area. The third was a write-around from the Deputy Prime Minister to get a real sense of where different areas might be on their approach to partnerships, to the type of scale and to the type of geography. We saw the expression of interest process very much as a temperature check, so the proposals that came forward are certainly not binding either on local areas or on the Government. We expect further proposals to come forward, including from the same areas.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

What guarantee can the Minister give that there will be new money from the Treasury to fund the costs of any local government reorganisation in Essex, to avoid the costs of that reorganisation resulting in cuts to public services or increased council taxes?

[Jim McMahon]

That question was raised earlier, and I apologise for not addressing it. The Government will provide capacity to enable both devolution and local government reorganisation through discussions with local authorities. Some of that might be funding, and quite a lot might be support through workforce development. Last week, we launched the workforce development group —a joint project between MHCLG, other Government Departments and bodies such as the Local Government Association—to make sure that we are addressing the workforce issues. Even before the reorganisation, we know that many counties are struggling to recruit to jobs like adult social care and many districts are struggling to recruit to jobs like planning, so there is a bigger issue here that we are looking to address.

[Dave Robertson (Lichfield) (Lab)]

I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, which lists me as a member of Lichfield city council and Lichfield district council.

I want to touch on the future of parish and town councils, as the White Paper talks in two places about stronger engagement between the new authorities and parish councils. Can the Minister go further by saying how that will work, particularly given their importance in places like Staffordshire? Staffordshire has almost 1 million people, is 3% of the length of England, and has real centres of community and a lot of population centres that are not currently reflected in their district councils but are very much reflected in their town councils in places like Burntwood.

[Jim McMahon]

Again, we say in the White Paper—I also referenced this in my opening remarks—that it was a Labour Government who introduced quality status for parish councils to recognise that that tier of government has a very important role to play and can do far more if trusted and given the power to do so.

We see that town and parish councils have an important role to play but, in the end, that is notwithstanding reorganisation. Reorganisation will need to take place in many areas, and parish and town councils could or could not do more, but I would say that that is a slightly separate issue.

As to the proposal for individual areas to take account of issues like identity, belonging and the different units of government, we are happy to have those conversations on a one-to-one basis. I can assure the House that there will be ample opportunity to meet me and my fellow Ministers on a one-to-one basis, as well as for drop-in sessions, to make sure that matters that are not picked up on the Floor of the House can be picked up later.

[Manuela Perteghella (Stratford-on-Avon) (LD)]

I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests as a district councillor. Real devolution means empowering local communities, not centralising power into regional super-unitary councils. Residents in my constituency of Stratford-on-Avon would be best represented by a south Warwickshire unitary council, rather than a remote Warwickshire-wide unitary council, which will have five different local plans. Does the Minister agree that a top-down minimum target population of half a million people risks dividing existing communities and forcing together communities with no shared identity?

[Jim McMahon]

That is a fair point. I am losing track of the number of MPs who are standing up to declare they are still councillors, although I recognise there is a transition—I went through it myself—and there may be an overlap between being a councillor and a Member of Parliament. On the detail of individual counties, it is for local areas to make a submission to Government, and for the Government to assess the proposals that come forward. The Government do not have a plan on a map for the hon. Lady’s county, but we expect that the county and the district will get together to work out a proposal that they can accept and submit to Government, which we can then review.

[Jayne Kirkham (Truro and Falmouth) (Lab/Co-op)]

Cornwall will welcome further devolution. We are a long way from London, but I want to build on the question about town councils. In places like Cornwall, cuts to unitary councils have meant town councils have already taken on a lot of responsibility, so how does the Minister see those town councils continuing in the future?

[Jim McMahon]

When Labour was last in government, we brought forward landmark legislation to create the Mayor of London, Parliaments in Scotland and Wales and the Assembly in Northern Ireland. The quality council status was introduced for parish and town councils, and powers on wellbeing and other matters were given to local government. The previous Labour Government recognised, just as this Government recognise, that devolution has to work from the top to the bottom and the right powers have to be in the right places. At a neighbourhood level, we see town and parish councils playing a critical role in devolution, and we look forward to further discussions with the sector.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

There is much to commend in the White Paper and, broadly, the Minister is to be congratulated. However, he knows as well as I do, as welcome as the multi-year settlement announcement is, it is predicated on an outdated and effectively broken funding system. I understand the Treasury is not keen to revisit that in any meaningful way, but may I urge him to consider a rural-proofing mechanism to the funding formula, to ensure that the additional costs of delivering local services in rural areas are recognised? Change is scary, but I do not recognise the picture painted by the hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Vikki Slade). In Dorset, we became a unitary authority, and no sane person would ever want to go back to a two-tier system, but we benefited from the excellent skills of Paul Rowsell, who died earlier this year and is much missed. Will the Minister ensure there are expert teams within his Department to work alongside those councils that wish to make that important change, which will deliver savings and better services to local people?

[Jim McMahon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, who is my predecessor, for his question and for the tone with which he dealt with us in opposition; I honour that in return. The fair funding review is absolutely critical. We are committed to a multi-year financial settlement, which is about giving security, but we all know there is no security if the money is insufficient to meet demand. The hon. Gentleman and the House have absolute assurance that all the cost factors, including the cost of rural service delivery, will be taken into account in a fair funding review.

[Mr Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) (Lab)]

In comparable countries, a city like Southend would generate £55 billion more across the country. Will the Minister explain what powers the English devolution Bill will give to mayors, so they can drive local growth and areas can fulfil their financial potential?

[Jim McMahon]

I remember when the Greater Manchester devolution deal was signed in 2014. Its principles were to reform public services, so we could focus on prevention rather than crisis management, which is more expensive and has worse outcomes, and grow the local tax base, because the area would become more productive through investment. I will be honest and say that we did not see the investment in prevention reform, so growth was stunted. However, even in that context, growth in Greater Manchester has outperformed that of other areas, in large part because of the devolution agreement and the leadership and co-ordination involved. Even by independent assessments, allowing our regions to realise their full potential would be worth between £30 billion and £50 billion to the economy that is not currently being realised, so there is an alternative and we have to grasp it.

[James McMurdock (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Reform)]

Yesterday, a former Labour deputy leader referred to my party as a “threat to democracy”. I am sure that that was a cute turn of phrase for television, but given that the framework that the Minister has laid out allows elections next year to be gamed so easily, is the real threat not potentially the Labour party?

[Jim McMahon]

I would not characterise the hon. Gentleman’s party as a threat to democracy, but it might be a threat to sanity. We are all tested on a too-regular basis by fairly ridiculous statements that try to drive a wedge and divide people instead of bringing them together. One thing about devolution is that, regardless of party politics, across Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives what we have seen in local areas is that when it comes to people, places and putting communities first, party politics are put to one side. I extend that invitation to the Reform party, too.

[Jim Dickson (Dartford) (Lab)]

It is instructive to hear a former local government Minister on the Opposition Benches, the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), describe the current system as “broken”. That is probably why we need the White Paper. My constituents have grown weary and frustrated at non-delivery by various tiers of local government in Kent, particularly when it comes to failures to provide special educational needs and disabilities support for pupils, and poor bus services compared with neighbouring ones in London. What hope for better delivery across all services—schools, social care, health, transport and roads—might we have from the White Paper?

[Jim McMahon]

It was previously very difficult for the Government to have an honest conversation with local government about what an adequate level of public service provision should be in a given place, because they knew full well that they were not providing the resources to enable that to happen in a fair way across the country. When we fix the financial foundations of local government through the fair funding review and the multi-year settlement, and build rigour around it, we will move away from the hundreds, and in some cases thousands, of top-down metrics that central Government expect councils to report on. We will look to simplify the funding system to end unnecessary ringfences that act as shackles on local government, but there has to be governance, accountability and a very clear responsibility to deliver the outcomes that the Government want in return for those freedoms, flexibility and fair funding.

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

My constituents will be waiting to see how the Department’s plans for local government reorganisation affect Wokingham borough council. They will want to ensure that their voices are listened to if we are to be shuffled around, merged or abolished by Whitehall. Importantly, they will want to know whether the Government’s plans will hit their wallets. Can the Minister commit to ensuring that funding for any changes will come from his Department, not from council tax, which should instead be used to fund vital local services?

[Jim McMahon]

Only this week are we seeing a genuine redistribution of money in the local government system so that it goes to the areas that need it the most. For far too long, the funding formula did not recognise deprivation or that some tax bases are weaker at a local level than others. The £600 million recovery grant is intended to get to those areas. On value for money for public services, and getting them down to a neighbourhood level, as I said, there is a two-tier premium that is paid by local taxpayers to the tune of around £2 billion, which could be better used for local public services, and by central Government through the floor protections that we give to district councils, and that frankly could be used in better ways in areas of high deprivation and need.

[Alice Macdonald (Norwich North) (Lab/Co-op)]

I hope that Norfolk will be part of the devolution priority programme so that we can unlock the powers and funding that we need on areas from transport to housing. May I ask the Minister specifically about the role of key cities? Norwich is a key national and regional economic power, but it needs devolution to fully unlock its potential. It is vital that we have a key role and voice in the process of devolution and reorganisation. Can he assure us that that will be the case, and set out the process for cities in particular to do that?

[Jim McMahon]

Obviously, we inherited the plans for Norfolk and Suffolk from the previous Government. I will be clear that we could not progress with that deal because it would have seen directly elected council leaders assume the role of a mayor, but without the framework in place to support that, which we did not support. We have been working constructively with both counties to look at a mayoral combined authority over a bigger footprint, and we hope they will come forward as part of the programme. That is a matter for them. They may decide now is not the right time, but there is huge potential.

On devolution in Norwich and also Ipswich, it is important that reorganisation is strongly anchored in terms of place and the economy. Of course, in this case, Norwich would be central to that.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

What say will voters in the New Forest have if there are proposals to remove either their district council or their county council?

[Jim McMahon]

Local government reorganisation is a statutory process, so it requires local areas to produce plans, as does devolution. Both are required to go to public consultation to solicit views—that is part of the process. When the formal process starts, the Government’s role is to assess the proposals and the consultation as submitted. We do not take a view on geography and form until we make the final decision.

[Andrew Cooper (Mid Cheshire) (Lab)]

The biggest issues holding back economic growth in Mid Cheshire are long-term under-investment in our transport infrastructure and the lack of a joined-up skills agenda, working with businesses across local authority borders. That is not unique to my constituency. The reality is that, in 2010, east Germany’s economy overtook northern England’s, and that trend has accelerated over the past 14 years. What new powers will the English devolution Bill give strategic authorities to drive improvements in local transport and to take control of their sub-region’s skills agenda?

[Jim McMahon]

This was one of the reasons why we were so keen to complete the map of the north of England. Most would accept that strategic transport, certainly, crosses county boundaries. If we think about connectivity in the north of England, how Lancashire, Greater Manchester, the Liverpool city region, Cheshire, Cumbria and the rest are joined up, and then even into Yorkshire, requires co-ordination. We want mayors and strategic authorities to work together across that pan-region, so that even more powers can be devolved to address the type of issues that my hon. Friend talks about.

[Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)]

According to the White Paper, a constituency like mine will see Cambridgeshire county council and Huntingdonshire district council merged into a unitary council as the principal authority, under Cambridgeshire and Peterborough combined authority as the strategic authority. How will unitary councillors fulfil the roles of multiple district and county councillors in a part-time capacity, and what does it also mean for the forthcoming combined authority mayoral election in Cambridgeshire and Peterborough?

[Jim McMahon]

The forthcoming election for Cambridgeshire and Peterborough will go ahead as planned. There is no proposal to change the boundary of what is currently a combined authority that will move to being a strategic authority. Local government reorganisation where there is an existing mayoral combined authority, providing that it is coterminous in terms of the review it has undertaken, will not have an impact at all. All that happens is the membership of the combined authority will change to reflect the new council structures as they appear.

[Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)]

As a former councillor of 10 years who sought election to this place to give power back to communities, I am absolutely thrilled by this devolution White Paper, and I congratulate the Minister on bringing it forward. I have two points. On page 16, there is an ambition to make the mayor the chair of the integrated care partnership and also the police and crime commissioner, as in South Yorkshire. I commend that and would like to hear more about it. On page 94, there is a proposal for a right to buy community asset. Hengistbury Head outdoor centre in my constituency just found out that it will be a community benefit society with a lease for 99 years, but it has taken far too long to get to that place. I invite the Minister to come to Hengistbury Head outdoor centre—it may involve getting in a kayak—to find out more about what this right to buy could involve at the ground level. I would love to know more about the Government’s intent on the matter.

[Jim McMahon]

I know many Labour and Co-operative Members of Parliament have been campaigning hard on the extended community right to buy. That is about giving communities the power to take over those important community assets on their high streets and in their town centres in a meaningful way. The Minister for local growth, my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham North and Kimberley (Alex Norris), is working hard on a communities White Paper, which will provide far more detail. In the end, it is not just about that community right to buy; it is about a genuine shift where people feel far more control, power and agency in the places where they live.

[Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)]

Trying to create multiple unitary authorities in Essex will not work, will not have public support, will take the best part of a Parliament to implement and will not save money—in fact, quite the opposite—and there is a risk that local government will grind to a halt in the meantime. As for mayors, in 23 years of canvassing in my constituency, I have never once had a constituent say to me on the doorstep, “I want a mayor of Essex.” Indeed, looking up the road to London, the last thing on earth that we in Essex want is another Sadiq Khan.

[Jim McMahon]

I will put the right hon. Gentleman down as undecided.

[Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)]

I welcome the Minister’s ambitious announcement and the opportunities that devolution could bring the people of Pompey, and I thank him and his team for the time that they have given Members of this House and for his offer of an open door. Portsmouth is one of the most densely populated parts of the country, so alongside the commitment to desperately needed affordable housing, will the Minister commit to using the English devolution Bill to empower my communities with the right to buy beloved community assets, such as empty shops, pubs and much-needed community spaces, to ensure that cities such as mine, and the people in them, feel the pride of ownership once again?

[Jim McMahon]

That is a good point. When we talk about important community assets, we see from an economic point of view that it is far better for them to be used and productive, but in the end we also recognise that they are hugely important to community identity and pride. In a lot of working-class areas, including Oldham, Chadderton and Royton, which I represent, the local civic building, local pub and local church are not just buildings but part of people’s story, and people really care about them.

[Caroline Voaden (South Devon) (LD)]

Top-down reorganisation of a failing council such as Conservative-run Devon county council is a bit like shuffling the deck chairs on a sinking ship. We know that years of chronic underfunding have made it impossible for councils to fulfil their obligations, so I welcome the multi-year funding settlement. However, creating larger regional authorities does not devolve power; it shifts power and responsibility away from local communities to a distant, higher-tier authority that will feel remote to towns and parishes in places such as Devon. We must have the opportunity in May to pass our verdict on Conservative-run Devon county council, which has been failing our most vulnerable children for over a decade. Will the Minister assure me that those elections will go ahead as planned in 2025?

[Jim McMahon]

It would be rude to deny the good people of Devon a spat between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. But in all seriousness, it is for local areas to decide whether they want to apply to the Government to be part of the reorganisation programme. If we receive a request from that area, we will administer it in a fair way, as we would any other.

[Steve Race (Exeter) (Lab)]

I welcome the huge opportunity in the White Paper for cities such as Exeter, which is also held back by Tory-run Devon county council—the upper-tier authority. Can the Minister confirm that devolution and reorganisation will work hand in hand to help Exeter, a key economic growth city, to retain, enhance and expand its historic self-governance, and to unleash its economic potential as an equal partner in a strategic authority?

[Jim McMahon]

Absolutely. One keenly felt problem with the previous devolution framework was that it did not have due regard for the role of district councils in primary cities, university cities and economic hubs. Reorganisation gives those places the ability to grow, become unitary authorities, and take their place in the new strategic authorities.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

Fifteen years ago, just before I joined this House, we saw the reorganisation of Wiltshire county council into the unitary Wiltshire council, and the abolition of several district councils. It seems that another reform in the heart of Wessex will be the probable outcome of these proposals for Somerset, Dorset and Wiltshire. Can the Minister assure the people of Salisbury, who still have some difficulty accepting the abolition of Salisbury district council, that the proposed changes will be positive in terms of the combination of resources for strategic investment in transport and other such services?

[Jim McMahon]

In any local government reorganisation, there is always a fine balance between trying to create a cohesive new council and respecting the strong local identities that people feel—identities that are unique. When that is done right, the council can be confident in its own standing, because it knows that it is delivering outstanding services; when it is done wrong, it is trying to impose an identity on a place through the form of a council that does not reflect the local identity. For those of us in towns such as Oldham that went through the 1974 reorganisation, that is felt as keenly as in other areas, but that is not about the type of government; it is about culture and approach. When it is done well, it can work.

[Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to all the district councillors in the loyal and ancient borough of Newcastle-under-Lyme, including the Tories who tried and failed to defeat me—I will be nice to them. On page 10 of the White Paper, the Minister notes that:

“We must end the top-down micromanaging”.

I agree. Notwithstanding how much of this announcement was trailed in the press and on social media in recent days, can I press the Minister on the point raised by my neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell)? The Minister has said that there will be trade-offs when it comes to local identities. Who will ultimately decide on those trade-offs, and when will people in the real world be able to have their say on these proposals?

[Jim McMahon]

People in the real world had their say at the ballot box, because devolution and taking power out of this place was a manifesto commitment that we are absolutely clear-eyed about delivering. The White Paper is about delivering that commitment. As for process and consultation, first, it is for local areas to determine what proposal they will submit to the Government—the Government do not have a proposal that we are submitting to local areas. Secondly, it would be ideal if local areas could get around a single proposal so that the Government’s only role is to receive it and say, “Thank you very much,” rather than choosing between alternative proposals from the same area.

[Alison Bennett (Mid Sussex) (LD)]

I thank the Minister for the time he made available to me at one of his surgery appointments recently and welcome the announcement of something that we discussed then: the ending of bidding for discrete funding pots, which was a trademark of the last Conservative Government. How will we ensure that these announcements do not impinge on the announcements his Department made last week? My hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) eloquently set out the challenges of reorganisation in Cumbria. How are we going to make sure that those housing targets can be delivered during this period of uncertainty?

[Jim McMahon]

We are very mindful that there is a lot of change in the system quite early on. That is deliberate. We believe strongly that when the next general election comes, people will make judgments based on whether they feel better in their own financial security—whether they have money in their pocket and feel like they are getting on in life—and feel secure in the place where they live. Local public services are part of that. As such, we have made a deliberate decision to make the necessary structural changes early on in the Parliament, through the White Paper and other measures, so that we can get them out of the way and people can really see the benefits towards the end of the Parliament.

[John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)]

I declare an interest as a member of Rugby borough council. Page 16 of the White Paper speaks about

“Reforming and joining up public services”,

and says that,

“Over the long term, the government is announcing an ambition to align public service boundaries”.

Will my hon. Friend expand on how these reforms can enhance people’s ability to hold public service leaders to account through their elected representatives, and to exercise greater democratic control over such services?

[Jim McMahon]

We talk quite a lot about how sufficient funding was not provided over a decade of underfunding, but that does not mean there were not growing costs in the system. We have found that in the end, local government is where all the demand presents itself—whether it likes it or not—when there is failure in other parts of the system, whether that is the failure of developers to build enough properties, the NHS not quite being able to co-ordinate with community services, or the private sector exploiting its audience and charging eye-watering sums, such as in children’s services. We have to redesign local public services around people, place and communities, and public sector reform and prevention are part of that. The alignment of public service boundaries is critical; if people do not have democratic control and oversight over things such as integrated care boards or police and crime commissioners, aligned to strategic authorities, we will not make the progress that we need to make.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge) (Con)]

I welcome the intention to reorganise local government that the Government have set out. Clearly, this has been in play for a while, but the Minister will know that the independent and sovereign kingdom of Kent has had an identity of its own for about 2,000 years. The exact borders of that identity are open to some debate even today—quite extraordinarily, but they are. Will he please tell us what priorities he will use in the devolution priority plan? Will he be championing size—the 500,000-plus—the transport infrastructure or the historical affiliations? How is he going to understand this, and how will he prioritise for the priority plan?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim McMahon]

I think the right hon. Member has outlined exactly the balance we are trying to get. One priority is about size for efficiency through both devolution to strategic authorities and local government reorganisation, if that follows in the same area. The second is about how the real economy is functioning, because in the end this is about growth and making sure that a functioning economy can be identified and can grow. Those will, of course, be mixed in with identity to make sure that it works. It follows, I think, that in most places the historic counties will be the building blocks for that, but I know that some boundaries are quite hotly contested, as we have seen in Cumbria. However, we are not going back 2,000 years.

[Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) (Lab)]

Parts of Britain such as Cornwall that have national minority status have been working towards devolution for decades, if not centuries. Given that the Minister has outlined a certain pace and ambition in this White Paper, will he work with Cornwall council, town and parish councils, and ourselves to ensure that that pace and ambition are delivered on and secure Cornwall its rightful place on the Council of the Nations and Regions in due course?

[Jim McMahon]

There have been a number of competing proposals. I do not believe in elephants in the room, but one was an explicit proposal to have a Devon and Cornwall combined authority with a mayor. It was by and large proposed by Devon, but it was met with what I would describe as quite animated resistance from Cornwall for different reasons. It is not our intention—and, frankly, there are not enough hours in the day—to keep getting involved in local disputes about boundaries and identity. What we want, and this is genuine, is for the local area to self-organise, come up with a proposal that is right for the area, and make that proposal to the Government so that we can work in partnership and deliver the outcome of getting powers out of this place and into places such as Cornwall.

[Ellie Chowns (North Herefordshire) (Green)]

I welcome the elements of this White Paper that are about devolution, but we have to recognise that some elements are about concentration. The Minister has talked about the two-tier premium, but the reality is that his proposals mean that in some places a local tier will be replaced by a more distant mayoral tier. Does he recognise that this risks creating a bit of a democratic deficit? Surely, we should be trying to keep the “local” in local government as much as possible. Given that average turnout in the last lot of mayoral elections last year averaged 30%, what will he do to address the risk of democratic deficit? In particular, will he introduce a fair and proportional system for local elections?

[Jim McMahon]

The truth is that these strategic authorities are about taking power from this place and moving it down to communities. Every Minister gets hundreds of sign-offs every single day, but as Conservative Members will remember, they include Ministers having to sign off whether cyclists can pass through a local park because the parish council has to apply to central Government for permission. That is part of the centralising nature of the state that we have to change.

[Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

I welcome the statement and the White Paper. Centralisation is part of the reason why we are one of the most regionally unequal advanced economies, as IPPR North has set out, but it is important that these strategic authorities are run well. What steps will the Minister take to ensure that they are funded fairly, and what assurances can he give that strategic authorities must demonstrate responsible stewardship of the public finances?

[Jim McMahon]

That is why there is a proposal in the paper to regularise the mayoral precept process. Where combined authorities exist and do not apply a precept, it is not that mayors and combined authorities do not cost money—of course they do—but that local authorities pay for them through a levy or a contribution outside the precept system. Our view is that, for transparency, accountability and political accountability, when mayors and combined authorities or strategic authorities are spending money, the public have a right to see that identified in their council tax, and they can make a judgment about whether that money is being spent wisely.

[Dame Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

The residents of Staffordshire Moorlands do not want to be subsumed into Stoke-on-Trent. Can the Minister guarantee that they will not be forced into a devolution deal against their will, and that decisions that matter to them will continue to be taken in the Moorlands and not in Stoke-on-Trent?

[Jim McMahon]

I do not want to get myself into neighbourhood disputes—there are not enough hours in the day. I hope that it will be clear from reading the White Paper that this is not a forcing together, but a genuine distribution of power from a centralising state to communities where it really matters. My hope is that local disputes, some of which I am sure are well rehearsed and go back a long time, are put to one side. In the end, the prize is the greater good, which is for the benefit of all.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

I welcome the Minister’s recognition that unitary authorities deliver for residents. Bracknell Forest council is an example of a unitary authority promoting a strong sense of place and delivering economic growth. Although it is small, it is mighty. Will my hon. Friend agree to work with Bracknell Forest council to develop a plan that works for Bracknell?

[Jim McMahon]

We are absolutely committed to working in partnership, giving capacity and time to ensure that those local nuances are reflected in whatever follows.

[Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)]

The Minister has just concluded the Greater Lincolnshire devolution deal, which I welcome and support. As he will know, there were two unitary authorities in the north of the county and the rest is a two-tier system. Do the Government expect that two-tier area to come forward with proposals for unitary authorities? If so, may I remind him that the sparsity factor plays with Lincolnshire, and the target of 500,000 is far too high. Prior to 1974 there were three county councils to cover the whole county.

[Jim McMahon]

We do not have a proposal for reorganisation for Greater Lincolnshire, but that is not to say that conversations are not taking place locally about making a representation to Government. When that letter goes out later today, we expect areas that are currently not on our list will come forward on that basis. In the end, it is for local areas to determine what submission they want to make, but in terms of sparsity and having an anchor that makes sense, I completely understand the hon. Gentleman’s point.