Touring Hauliers: Arts Organisations

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Wednesday 18th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clement-Jones]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to their announcement on 6 May regarding “dual registration” for specialist touring hauliers, what assessment they have made of the impact this will have on artists and organisations which tour in their own vehicles and operate under “own account”; and whether they have considered support for smaller hauliers operating which do not have the resources to operate dual registration.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, specialist touring hauliers operating under “own account” can utilise the dual-registration measure if they have a standard international operator licence, which they must apply for, and a base in Great Britain and another country. Operators will need to make their own decisions on whether they choose to do so based on business need and resources available to them.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, this is all very much half a loaf. If a comprehensive solution is not found, the damage to the UK music industry and the events support industry will be massive. The Prime Minister has assured us that the Government are working “flat out” on the touring issue. Can the Minister assure the House that her department is urgently working on finding a wider solution, such as an exemption from cabotage for all trucks engaged on cultural events?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Certainly, the department has worked incredibly hard on this and continues to do so. We had a public consultation back in February, and we are deeply engaged with the industry, particularly the specialist haulage industry, which is so important. We know that about one in five hauliers has already set up within the EU, and many more have plans to do so. We recognise that the dual-registration system will not benefit absolutely everybody. However, it is the case under the TCA that many hauliers will be able to make use of their two cross-trades within the bilateral EU-UK movements that they can make. So it does not mean that all touring is off the table. We believe that, at the moment, we have the best possible solution, in light of the current response from the EU.

[Baroness Bull (CB)]

The Minister will be aware that, alongside cabotage, CITES and carnet regulations are adding further cost and complexity to post-Brexit touring. Last week at the EU-UK Parliamentary Partnership Assembly in Brussels, there was welcome support for my argument that, given that both sides say that they offered a deal that the other rejected, it means that we have common cause—and it is an issue that we could, in fact, resolve quickly, unlike some of the more complicated issues on the table. Does the Minister agree and, if so, will the Government consider a cultural exemption for all three Cs—cabotage, carnets and CITES—as the most practical solution to a problem that we all want to resolve?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises some important points, and I shall ensure that my department and the Government make sure that we make the most of the areas where we already have agreement. However, I am afraid that we know that the EU will not accept greater amounts of cabotage.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister acknowledge that there is a precedent in the temporary cabotage exemption negotiated for international hauliers working in the UK to provide support for supply chains while addressing the shortage of HGV drivers? At the very least, an own account exemption could be negotiated, which would be a great help.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Those two things are not the same, in that the cabotage easement that we put in place was for EU hauliers coming to the UK, which meant that they could do unlimited cabotage within the 14 days. The EU did not reciprocate; it did not change its cabotage arrangements at all for UK- registered hauliers, who can do only one cabotage movement within the EU, and one cross-trade.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

I am sure that the Minister is aware that those performers most affected are those at the lower and middle part of the industry. How will they be helped by these cabotage provisions, which will be of use only to the biggest specialist hauliers?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The cabotage conditions will, of course, apply to everybody, unless they have an EU base. As for the smaller hauliers and those operating on their own account, as I said previously, they can operate if they have the standard international operator licence. They can also get an ECMT international road haulage permit, which gives an extra cross-trade. So an organisation based in the UK could travel to the EU and do events in three separate countries, all within the current regulations.

[Lord Aberdare (CB)]

My Lords, further to the Minister’s reply to the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, many orchestras have their own vehicles for touring in Europe, specially fitted out at considerable expense to meet their specific needs. As I understand it, these are now virtually unusable as a result of the own account exemption being excluded from the trade and co-operation agreement. Can the Minister enlighten me? She seemed to imply that that was not the case, whereas the orchestras concerned feel that they cannot use their own vehicles for touring in Europe.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

They can use their own vehicles for touring in Europe if they have a standard operator licence. They still have to remain within the requirements set out in the TCA, which is either two cross-trades or one cross-trade and one cabotage. However, as I have said previously, they can get an ECMT permit to do three cross-trades. We recognise the challenges for those operating on their own account, because they have to operate within those particular requirements. However, if they are of a significant size, they may wish to set up an organisation in the EU, and then they would have slightly greater, although not unlimited, flexibility—but it might be helpful.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, it seems to me that the Minister is saying that the Government have done as much as they intend to do. It is equally clear from the industry press that the industry feels that this is a really serious problem for small and medium-sized performers. I do not understand the industry very well, but I would imagine that big bands come from little bands and that the importance of the industry over time is that the small successes are able to grow. Surely this whole situation is sufficiently serious for the department to continue pressure to try to devise a system that works for the smaller operators.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I reassure all noble Lords that we have thought long and hard about this. We have engaged with the EU but, when we did so, the exemption for specialist hauliers was rejected. Our door remains open for discussing alternative exemptions. There is a limit to what we can do on a unilateral basis. This was the best idea that came up both from my officials working on this and from our consultation with industry—68% were in favour of this. When it comes to smaller operators and those operating on their own account, the other option would be for them to go into partnership with an EU haulier and thereby provide that continuity across the system.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, I back up what the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, was saying about a good body of opinion among the MEPs that we met at the Parliamentary Partnership Assembly last week, which was very sympathetic to this problem. It is very much a problem designed to be discussed by the trade-specialised committees of the trade and co-operation agreement. Can the Minister tell us which specialised committee will be tackling it and when that committee will next meet?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Unfortunately, I will have to write to the noble Earl; I do not have that with me today.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister suggests that things are getting better, but we are starved of any information about the damage that has been done to this sector over the last two or three years. Would she be so kind as to provide the House with some statistics showing how many of these operators have been able to tour and have got cabotage rights, carnets and so on over the last, say, four years? That would be a great help.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

It is a very complex picture. As I mentioned earlier, one in five has already set up with an EU base and a further 6% plan to do so. However, as I also mentioned, it is the case that many tours can already go ahead depending on how many different stops that particular event will have within the EU. If I can find any further details from the industry, I will certainly write to the noble Lord.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, further to the Minister’s answer to the noble Lord, can she give any encouragement or hope to youth orchestras? It is not just professional orchestras that are finding it difficult to tour. Youth orchestras are vital for the experience gained by the young people—I admit that both my children spent years touring and playing all over Europe and had enormous experience with the Stoneleigh Youth Orchestra—but I fear that these in particular are falling completely by the wayside. Can the Minister offer any hope or encouragement for them?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am not aware that there is a particular issue here for youth orchestras. Like any orchestra, if a youth orchestra does not have its own vehicles, it can of course contract with an appropriate haulier which is able to operate within the regime that is set up in the UK and in the EU. It will depend on the sort of tour that youth orchestras want to do and how many countries they will be visiting as to the rules and regulations and which licences will need to be held by the haulier with which they choose to contract.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, is the gist of what the Minister has said today that everything is satisfactory and nothing further needs to be done?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I completely reject that—that is not what I am saying at all. The Government absolutely recognise that the measures that we have put in place help the sector and mean that a large proportion of the UK industry can continue to operate, but we acknowledge that not all specialist operators will be in a position to establish a base overseas. As I have said before, our door remains open; we would wish to discuss this with the EU but so far, unfortunately, it has not wanted to do so.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Wednesday 11th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury]

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:

“Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which was addressed to both Houses of Parliament”.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton)]

My Lords, on behalf of your Lordships’ House, I thank His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales for delivering the gracious Speech, and I am grateful for the privilege of opening today’s debate on the Motion for an humble Address.

Today, I shall outline the Government’s plans for a world-class transport network and our plans to spread opportunity across our country by using landmark legislation to level up jobs, homes and high streets. My noble friend Lord Greenhalgh will close what I am sure will be a lively debate, full of important contributions from all sides of this House. I am particularly looking forward to the maiden speech of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Guildford.

Even before Covid-19 disrupted lives and livelihoods, the Government made it clear that the economic divides which exist across the country have persisted for too long and that while talent is universal, opportunity is not. Levelling up means changing this once and for all so that we can meet these challenges head on and achieve greater prosperity and connectivity after the pandemic. Only by building on the unique strengths of every city, town and village in the UK can we grow our economy and address the cost of living, and few things transform the prospects of an individual, a community and, indeed, an entire nation more than a modern, well-functioning transport network. Transport gives people the opportunity and means to get on and access jobs, education and training. Transport investment can be the spark which regenerates entire regions, attracting businesses and boosting housing development across the country, and given that transport is the biggest source of our domestic greenhouse gas emissions, the entire sector will play a crucial role in achieving our 2050 net-zero target.

The Government were elected on a reforming platform and our proposed legislation is bold and ambitious. Our transport Bill will deliver new, modern and more sustainable railways fit for the country that created them. Despite the enormous benefits of privatisation which saw the doubling of passenger numbers and the quadrupling of government investment, it has long been clear that major, industry-wide change is needed. This Bill will give us the powers to deliver the Williams-Shapps plan for rail, the biggest reform to our railways in a generation. It will create Great British Railways—GBR—a single national leader and the new guiding mind for the railways, which will contract private operators to run train services for passengers. GBR will drive efficiencies and economies of scale, while arresting the spiralling costs associated with the current model. The Bill will allow GBR to replace franchising with new passenger service contracts, which will free up and incentivise operators to focus on improving the passenger experience and delivering reliable services.

Importantly, the transport Bill will not only improve the railway journeys of today but pave the way for the travel choices of tomorrow. Take electric vehicles, or EVs. The number of EVs sold in April was 40% higher than in the same month last year. EVs are often cheaper to own, run and maintain than their petrol and diesel equivalents, which can save drivers hundreds of pounds a year. They are also our best bet to help reduce the source of around 20% of domestic emissions.

But the success of this transition will depend on the rollout of charging infrastructure. The Bill will help achieve the aims of our recently launched EV infra- structure strategy. It will ensure that local authorities not only plan and deliver EV charging strategies but address private charging for those living in multioccupancy buildings.

Another emerging trend is automation. The Bill will place the UK at the forefront of self-driving vehicle safety. It is a market set to be worth nearly £42 billion by 2035, creating 38,000 skilled jobs. But this is possible only through comprehensive legislation, which will enable the Government to set new safety standards and assign legal responsibilities to protect users of self-driving vehicles, as well as those on the streets around them.

We will establish new legal entities to take responsibility for vehicles that drive themselves. In the event of any issues, this will prevent the occupants of the vehicles being unfairly held to account. The legislation will also ensure that the vehicles remain safe throughout their lives, and that they serve all parts of society when used in public transport networks.

Technology has also led to changes in how the taxi and private hire vehicle industry works—for example, through booking apps available on mobile phones. We will modernise the law to ensure that the same minimum standards are met by drivers across England to gain or retain a taxi or private hire vehicle licence, and we will enhance licensing authorities’ existing compliance and enforcement powers. These changes will create a level playing field and make journeys safer for all passengers.

Safety is also at the heart of our plans to create a regulatory framework for smaller, lighter, zero-emission vehicles, sometimes known as e-scooters. Their popularity is clear, and new rules are needed to improve safety and crack down on illegal use while unlocking innovation and growth in this emerging multi-billion pound industry. To that end, it is our intention that the Bill will create a low-speed, zero-emission vehicle category that is independent from the cycle and motor vehicle categories. New powers would allow the Government to decide the vehicles that fall into this new category in future and how they should be regulated to make sure that they are safe to use. We hope that e-scooters will be the first of these vehicles.

The areas of the transport Bill that I have highlighted only scratch the surface. Our Bill will go far beyond road and rail; it will cover important proposals for maritime and aviation too.

All noble Lords will be aware of the recent shocking actions of P&O Ferries in sacking 800 of its workers without notice or consultation, via a Zoom call. The Secretary of State for Transport pledged to bring in new legislation to close the loopholes that P&O Ferries exploited and ensure that seafarers earn a fair wage. The harbours (seafarers’ remuneration) Bill will give UK ports new powers to make it a condition of entry for ferry services to pay the equivalent of the national minimum wage to seafarers while in UK waters. That includes surcharging operators that cannot prove that they pay such a wage and ultimately suspending them from access to the port.

The Bill will also require ferry operators to have access to all relevant details of employment terms, even if they do not employ the crew directly. For too long, workers at sea have lacked the benefits and rights of those working on land. This legislation will finally put that right.

Transport is just one way of reducing inequality and narrowing economic divides. Levelling up requires a government-wide mobilisation to refocus on the communities and people left behind for too long, and to lift all underperforming areas closer to the UK average. We can now set out exactly how we will deliver on this defining pledge.

The Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill will enshrine into law the 12 levelling-up missions, covering themes such as pay and productivity, eradicating child illiteracy and innumeracy, and getting more people into skills training. We will allocate billions of pounds of investment via our shared prosperity, levelling-up and towns funds to improve local services, support high streets and upgrade local transport. Through this Bill, we will lay the foundations for all of England to have the opportunity to benefit from a devolution deal by 2030, giving local leaders the powers they need to drive real improvement in their local communities. We will hold our own feet to the fire, with accountability and transparency at the heart of the Bill. It will introduce a duty on government to report on the progress of these missions every year until 2030.

We will also provide a much-needed shot in the arm for the millions of people who are living in damp, cold and dangerous rented homes. They deserve a much fairer deal, and our renters reform Bill will, for the first time, apply the decent homes standard to privately rented homes to require landlords to ensure the homes they rent out are fit for purpose. It will also go further, by giving tenants the security needed to raise a family and plan their life without the looming threat of unfair no-fault Section 21 evictions.

It will not surprise your Lordships’ House that our social housing sector is in urgent need of reform as well. The introduction of the social housing regulation Bill could not be more timely. Social tenants deserve a better settlement, and the Government are committed to giving it to them, with an overhaul to tip the balance in their favour. Through the Bill, we will introduce new, stronger regulations that deliver the kind of consumer regulatory regime which can increase the quality and safety of homes. The Bill will also prioritise transparency so that social housing landlords can be properly held to account by the Regulator of Social Housing and by tenants who have, for too long, had their complaints ignored. The social housing regulation Bill is a key part of our plan to level up housing across the country and deliver for tenants by halving the number of non- decent rented homes by 2030.

In addition, the Government are committed to reviewing and simplifying the business rates system in the country. The non-domestic rating Bill will deliver that and help businesses and employees grow their productivity by making improvements to their places of work.

We will also deliver another manifesto commitment of this Government: to stop public bodies adopting their own approach to international relations through the foreign affairs (economic activity of publicly funded bodies) Bill. This Bill does exactly what it says on the tin, preventing public bodies pursuing boycott, divestment or sanctions campaigns against foreign countries or territories, with the obvious caveat being when these campaigns align with UK Government foreign policy. Ukraine has made clearer than ever the need to present a united front when it comes to foreign policy, so through this Bill we will prevent that being undermined by independent foreign policies sponsored by taxpayers’ money.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Can the Minister indicate whether that will apply to the Scottish Government?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am probably not going to be drawn into that matter right at this moment, but I am sure that my noble friend Lord Greenhalgh has taken that comment to heart—and the buck has been passed. My noble friend will get back to the noble Lord.

The legislation we have set out will allow us to build a world-class transport system that delivers, day in, day out, for passengers while supporting our wider economic recovery. It also fundamentally reorientates the whole of government’s focus on those communities and places that for too long have been left behind to give people the economic and political tools to improve the places in which they live, to build a fairer country and to ensure that all parts of the UK can fire on all cylinders.

High Speed Rail (Crewe–Manchester) Bill

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

That if a High Speed Rail (Crewe–Manchester) Bill is brought from the House of Commons in the next session of Parliament the Standing Orders of the House applicable to the bill, so far as complied with or dispensed with in this session, shall be deemed to have been complied with or (as the case may be) dispensed with in the next session.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I would like to speak very briefly to this Motion. I emphasise that I am not suggesting that I oppose it; it is a normal procedure Motion, and it should in my view carry over. However, I want to raise two issues of some concern about the progress of a Bill that will start in the other place and eventually come here.

First, I detected serious disagreements between different authorities in the Midlands and the north about what is in the integrated rail plan and the present Bill, which concerns Crewe to Manchester. There were quite public disagreements, and I am not sure how they can be resolved, but they clearly do need resolving to meet the objective—which the Government have rightly followed —of prioritising east-west improvements in the Midlands and the north. I am hoping that the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, who has just been appointed chair of Transport for the North, will be able to help with this.

My other concern is over budgets. The integrated rail plan budget of £96 billion was designed to set out the rail improvements that need doing as well as HS2, but it includes the HS2 budget. If you deduct from that £96 billion what is already going to be spent on HS2 from London to Crewe, there is actually no money left at all for other projects. That is really serious from the point of view of the people in the north and Midlands who want improved east-west connections. One of the main questions is whether the Manchester terminal for HS2 should be a surface station or underground so that you can carry on through to other places. I think the second option is more important and modern. But that is not the point; it needs agreement between all the parties.

One of the problems with a hybrid Bill is that once Second Reading has been agreed in the other place, it is very difficult—in fact, almost impossible—to make any changes. I know that some colleagues from all parts of the House of Commons would like to kill the Bill. This would be a very great shame. I am not saying I support what they are doing. It would be a shame to kill it, because so much work has gone into it.

I think it would be useful if the progress of the Bill were paused until there were proper agreement between all these authorities and the Department for Transport about what is really wanted. Is there a sufficient budget to achieve it? If that were to delay things by a few months, so much the better. It is difficult to start a Bill in the other place at this stage when one, if not more, of the major mayors in the area is highly critical of what is being done. I hope that this can be resolved. I am sure the Minister will have some views on this and I look forward to her comments.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, I simply do not recognise many of the noble Lord’s concerns, particularly around things such as budgets. I am well aware of his feelings about the HS2 project. We have had many conversations and debates, both in your Lordships’ House and beyond, about it. His views are well known. I am not surprised that the noble Lord has raised these issues in the manner in which he has done, and I am sure that he would like to see the Bill paused—but it is not going to be.

This hybrid Bill will probably take three to four years to complete its parliamentary passage, which is perfectly normal for a hybrid Bill. The noble Lord raised important issues about getting people to agree and understand. The petitioning process is part of that process, to ensure that we make people as happy as we possibly can in the context of building a very substantial transport infrastructure project. So, no, the Bill will not be paused and I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

West Coast Main Line

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Snape]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have, if any, to replace Avanti Trains as the principal operator on the West Coast Main Line.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the department is currently in discussions with Avanti West Coast, as per the prior information notice first issued in October 2020, about a subsequent direct award. A decision will be made later in the year.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that not-too-helpful response. Does she regret the replacement of Virgin Trains by this particular organisation? Does she agree with me that the problem of national rail contracts is that, under the present system, they are, in effect, cost-plus contracts? There is no incentive on train operating companies either to run trains or to provide a decent service, something this particular company has taken advantage of. Will she send Avanti a short message—how about, “Arrivederci”?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that. I also am aware that he has written to Avanti West Coast citing his concerns. It has no record of any correspondence from him; however, the managing director is very happy to speak to the noble Lord—perhaps he can say that Italian word at that meeting. It is the case that both for the ERMAs and the national rail contracts, there are very firm incentivisation elements. For example, Avanti earns a fee based on performance and, for the six months to March 2021, it was judged as getting a score of one for customer experience—that is the lowest, not the highest. Therefore, because it got the lowest, it got no fee for that element. So there is incentivisation, and we hope to make it better because we want to see excellent customer service across our railways.

[Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD)]

My Lords, I shall ask the Minister a straight question. If she came to this Chamber 17 minutes late to answer these questions, how does she think the House would feel? If she was summoned again at 9 pm with a Statement from the other place and she was 38 minutes late, does she think that we would be impressed with that performance? Those were the train delays on my journey from Stockport to London on the Thursday before we broke for Easter. That is by no means a one-off—the timetable is fantasy island. The morale of staff is at an all-time low. Until last week, they were wearing Virgin uniforms—three years on—with the badge cut off. The morale of staff is down, the service to customers is poor and I see no reason for carrying on with this franchise.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, had I turned up late to the Dispatch Box, obviously I might have had to resign—but not today. It should be remembered that we understand that there have been various issues relating to services. We work extremely closely with all the train operating companies, as the customers come back to the railways, to make sure that they run on time. There has been an issue around cancellations regarding staff-related absence, but we are working through that and things are improving. Of course, part of having these contracts in place means that we will be able to get better service for customers.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I have heard the same stories as my noble friend about the pretty appalling customer service from Avanti, and I reflect on the fact that the present structure seems to require the Treasury to micromanage everything—even if Network Rail wants to paint the railings on a station, it has to get Treasury approval. This is probably not a very efficient way of working. Can the Minister assure the House that, when we hear details of the Great British Railways, which is going to save us all from appalling services, that will be taken into account and somehow there will be some delegation and authority for the railways to run on their own with incentives and not too much bureaucracy?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I absolutely agree with what the noble Lord has just said. Of course, the Great British Railways transition team is already focused on delivering improved services for customers and driving revenue recovery. At the moment we know that passenger demand is about two-thirds of what it was pre-pandemic. It is looking very closely at boosting strategic freight again which is really important and developing this whole 30-year vision for how we want our railways to operate in the longer term.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

If my noble friend had time during the period of the Prorogation, perhaps she could think of undertaking a journey, heavily disguised, on this unfortunate and benighted railway and reporting her experiences to the House when we resume.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am always very happy to take the train. When I take my local train, I am actually always pleased with the service, although I look around and see that there are not as many passengers on it as I would like to see. I think that is one of the biggest challenges we face. We have the railway infrastructure and operating companies which have historically been operating at much higher passenger levels and we have to look at how we are going to adjust the railway in the future, maintaining excellent customer service but also good value for money for the taxpayer.

[Lord Jones (Lab)]

Will the Minister acknowledge the great importance to the Welsh economy of the Holyhead to London Euston route, acknowledging that there are not many highly skilled or well-paid jobs in north-west Wales? Can the Minister indicate when the pre-Covid rate of service might be reconstituted, particularly the hourly service that existed from Chester to Euston which has been much emaciated? Can she help?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not think that I would be able to stand here and commit to every single service coming in the same form as it was pre-pandemic, because life has changed and the reasons why people are travelling by rail have also changed. Avanti West Coast started off with four trains per hour plus extra peak trains. Back in February, that went up to six trains per hour—on 28 February—and then as we approach the summer timetable which comes in in May, we will be up to seven trains per hour and eight on key hours. That will improve the service to Chester and, I hope, to north Wales.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, it is always easy to complain and make comments, but yesterday I was on an Avanti train from Euston to Liverpool, where my mother was having an operation. I waited until she was conscious and therefore I missed my train, which I had booked at 2.47 pm. I would like the Minister to agree with me and call out the train manager at Liverpool Lime Street on the 3.47 pm Avanti train. When I explained my situation, that I had missed my train, he said, “Don’t you worry whatsoever. Go and sit down.” It was great customer service, and I would like to call that out.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that contribution and I have nothing further to add.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, can we go into this Avanti contract a little more? Modern Railways magazine, which tends to be an authoritative magazine in the industry, says that Avanti will be taking over the service on a national rail contract on 16 October. Can the Minister confirm that that is true? When does she expect to actually conclude the contract with Avanti? Can she explain what revenue risk, if any, Avanti will be taking? Will she perhaps illustrate what other risk Avanti will be responsible for? The key question, I think, given that there is not going to be a competitive process, is: how do we know we are getting value for money?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Avanti already has an emergency recovery measures agreement, which was awarded to First Trenitalia, which is Avanti, in August 2019. That was initially for seven years, so the national rail contract we are currently negotiating with Avanti will replace that. It will start on 16 October if negotiations reach an appropriate point. We will not award the contract if it is not right to award the contract, because, of course, there are alternatives. As for the revenue risks, obviously these contracts operate as all rail contracts do, whereby the Government take on the revenue and the costs; however, the train operating companies do annual business planning every year, which has to be agreed with the department. On that basis, within that, there are various performance measures that have to be met, and that is how we are able to control the railway and ensure companies are delivering value for money.

[Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB)]

My Lords, I use the Avanti West Coast every week and, frankly, the customer service is pretty good. It has introduced standard premium, which is a vast improvement, with at-seat ordering, et cetera—I think it is pretty good. But can the Minister tell me about what is laughably called TransPennine Express, which has been on strike for weeks now every Sunday? What are the Government doing to bring the strike to an end?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Yes, I am aware that the TransPennine Express is subject to some industrial action. Of course, we are working very closely with the train operating companies, and we hope to bring that strike to a resolution as soon as possible.

Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Disabled Persons) Bill

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

3rd reading
Tuesday 26th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I pay compliments to my right honourable friend Jeremy Wright MP, who started this Bill off in the House of Commons. I was privileged to serve with Jeremy in the Whips’ Office in the Commons from 2007 to 2012. He then went on to become Attorney-General, so this Bill will perhaps have had more legal pondering than most Private Members’ Bills put before the House. It makes an important contribution and I hope it gives some comfort to disabled people that they will be treated the same throughout the whole of the United Kingdom, irrespective of whether their local authority has done, or been able to do, the registration in the past. The Bill is the right move forward; I am just very sorry that it was not done in the four years that I was Secretary of State.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, about one in five of us is disabled and we know that disabled people rely on taxis and private hire vehicles more than most. That is why the Bill is so important and why the Government have given it their full support. If disabled people are more likely to rely on taxis and private hire vehicles for everyday journeys, instances of discrimination will have a much greater impact. The Bill goes a long way in helping to reduce that impact. I am enormously grateful to all those who have made it happen: my noble friend Lord McLoughlin, for his leadership in your Lordships’ House; my right honourable friend Jeremy Wright, for his expertise in leading it through the other place; all noble Lords who contributed to the debate; and, of course, the team of dedicated officials in my department. The Bill has received cross-party support and I am very grateful that it should pass today.

Bill passed.

Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 7 March be approved. Relevant documents: 29th and 34th Reports from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 25 April.

Motion agreed.

Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Monday 25th April 2022 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.

Relevant documents: 29th and 34th Reports from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the regulations before the Committee today meet a commitment made by the Prime Minister in the 2020 policy statement Gear Change: A Bold Vision for Walking and Cycling to give local authorities outside London powers conferred in Part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 to enforce contraventions of moving traffic restrictions. These powers are being commenced to coincide with these regulations, which are due to come into force on 31 May. The regulations before the Committee today form part of a package: an affirmative statutory instrument and a negative one. I shall refer to the former as the appeals regulations, and it is these are being considered by the Committee today.

The appeals regulations consolidate the rights of representation and appeal which have been in place England-wide since 2007 for vehicle owners who are or may be liable to pay penalty charge notices—PCNs—in respect of parking contraventions. They also extend those rights to disputed bus lane and moving traffic PCNs outside London. However, noble Lords should also note the negative procedure instrument: the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022. This instrument includes wider provisions for evidence, penalty charge notices, adjudication, penalty charge levels, and income and expenditure.

This regulatory package, introduced under Part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004, consolidates existing legislation. At the same time, it makes powers available to local authorities outside London to issue PCNs for contraventions of safety-critical moving traffic restrictions, such as no entry, banned turns and unlawful entry into box junctions. From now on, local authorities wanting to undertake moving traffic enforcement may apply for formal designation of these powers to enable enforcement to begin in practice by using CCTV cameras that have been certified by the Secretary of State. We plan to lay an order designating the first group of LAs as soon as practicable and will lay further orders as demand dictates.

When using these powers, local authorities have a duty to act fairly. These regulations therefore make provisions entitling drivers who are or may be liable to pay penalty charges for contravening certain traffic restrictions, including the moving traffic restrictions, to make representations to the enforcement authority and, if their case is rejected, to appeal to an independent adjudicator against the penalty charge. The regulations prescribe the information that must be given when a penalty charge is imposed about the right to make representations or appeal against that charge. The regulations also prescribe time limits for each stage of these processes, within which both the motorist and the local authority must respond, and create an offence of knowingly or recklessly making false representations under these regulations or in connection with an appeal.

I assure noble Lords that these regulations merely extend long-established provisions for motorists wishing to dispute parking penalties to the forthcoming civil enforcement regime for moving traffic contraventions. To create parity across the board outside London, we have also used this opportunity to repeal the bus lane enforcement regime, in place since 2005 under the Transport Act 2000, to create a single enforcement regime under the 2004 Act; that includes bus lane enforcement. It was always envisaged that this would happen soon after the 2004 Act was introduced.

By doing so, we have removed some of the inconsistencies in the legislation. Motorists challenging bus lane penalties will therefore benefit from representations and appeals provisions not previously available to them. These will apply to all contraventions. For example, they can challenge a penalty charge on the grounds of “procedural impropriety”. There will also be an express duty on local authorities to consider any “compelling reasons” that the motorist gives for the cancellation of the charge; express powers for adjudicators to refer cases back to the local authority where there are no grounds to allow the appeal but the adjudicator considers that the authority should reconsider whether the appellant should pay all or some of the penalty; and a requirement for the authority to respond to representations within 56 calendar days.

Bringing bus lane powers under the 2004 Act also has an allied benefit, in that it enables Ministers to publish for local authorities, for the first time, statutory guidance to cover all contraventions to which local authorities must have regard. This will simplify the system for the local authority so that it does not have lots of different types of enforcement considerations when it plans how to operationalise them.

However, I am clear that civil enforcement of moving traffic contraventions—or, indeed, of any traffic contraventions —should be a last resort. If contraventions are preventable through other means, such as improvements to road layout or traffic signing, I expect this to be done before enforcement is considered. We will issue statutory guidance to ensure that local authorities use these powers correctly.

Before enforcement can begin in practice, local authorities must apply to the department for an order by means of a letter to the Secretary of State. To ensure due diligence, designation of a local authority will be conditional on them having already consulted local residents and businesses on where existing restrictions have been earmarked for enforcement, and due consideration must have been given to any legitimate concerns.

Local authorities will also be expected to issue warning notices for first-time moving traffic contraventions at each camera location for six months following enforcement going live. This will apply to any new camera location in the future. These requirements will be enshrined in the statutory guidance to ensure that enforcement is targeted only at problem sites, that road users clearly understand the new powers and that enforcement is carried out fairly.

I stress that traffic enforcement must be aimed at increasing compliance and not raising revenue. Local authorities will not have a free hand in how any resulting surplus is used, which will be strictly ring-fenced for covering enforcement costs or specified local authority funded local transport schemes or environmental measures. Neither will local authorities have a free hand in setting penalty charge levels for moving traffic contraventions, as these are banded and set out in the regulations in line with existing penalties for higher-level parking contraventions. As moving traffic and bus lane contraventions are of a type, we are increasing bus lane penalties by £10 to align with contraventions of moving traffic and higher-level parking contraventions —for example, parking in a disabled bay.

These regulations support the enforcement of moving traffic contraventions and play a key role in reducing congestion, with consequent benefits to air quality and to well-being. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I have just two brief points to make. I thank and congratulate my noble friend on bringing forward the regulations this afternoon. First, I understand that there was a delay and that the statutory instruments had to be withdrawn and re-laid. I would very much like to understand why that was the case and have an assurance that that will not happen with future SIs.

My second concern relates to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s 29th report, dated 10 February 2022. At paragraph 40 it says:

“To free up police officers’ time, these Regulations extend the range of offences that can be dealt with by civil enforcement officers acting on behalf of local authorities, or in some cases traffic cameras.”


I would like to understand from which budget the civil enforcement officers will be taking on this work. I am mindful of the extent to which local authorities’ budgets are under severe pressure at this time.

Who will be responsible for the traffic cameras? In north Yorkshire and County Durham we have very few fixed cameras; the traffic cameras are mostly mobile. When I was an MP in north Yorkshire, I was informed, on the quiet, that in many instances there is no film in static cameras in north Yorkshire—they are just there to alarm people, in the hope that their behaviour will be reformed because they see a traffic camera in front of them. Are we relying on mobile traffic cameras, which are still the province of the police, or are there some other traffic cameras of which I am not aware?

With those few remarks, I wish the SI good speed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for bring forward these regulations, which I welcome. They will extend the rights of representations and appeals in parking, bus lane and moving traffic cases. I will not seek to detain the Committee for long, given that there is broad consensus on the basic principles. However, I welcome any details as to why it has taken so long to introduce these changes, given that they relate to a policy statement from two years ago.

A colleague was going to be doing this debate today so I came against the regulations only at 11.30 am. My understanding is that this is really a package made up of a commencement order that has no parliamentary procedures, a negative order that nobody has prayed against—so it will go through—and this measured affirmative order, or whatever the right term is. I hope that these regulations do a simple, uniform thing and bring the powers and appeal rights in England and Wales into a uniform piece of legislation. There are lots of nods but I would like to hear the Minister say yes to that because it would simplify how one thinks about this.

I wonder whether the Minister can offer a timeline for what flows from this package. I recognise that she may have done that in her speech but the impressive speed of her delivery was beyond my comprehension in places; I am not suggesting that she was not right and accurate, so I apologise for that. The reason I would like to see a timeline is because, as the Minister knows, the commencement of this order depends on the commencement of the negative order but I do not know when that is proposed to be. It would be useful to have on record when that will happen and when the consultation on the guidance will complete. I got the impression that the guidance might be published on the same day as the commencement. That would be unfortunate but it goes to the general issue of how motorists will know about both the offences and their appeal rights at the same time. I think the Minister said a little about how motorists will know about the offences, but knowledge about their appeal rights seems equally important.

The Committee hopes that these regulations will contribute to making the system of road traffic contraventions fairer and more effective. On broader road traffic issues, the Minister will be aware that the Government recently published an updated private parking code of practice, which caps fines at £80 in London and £50 elsewhere. Welcome as that is, unfortunately, the new code will not come into force fully until 2024. In the meantime, many parking firms are charging more than those caps permit. Does the Minister believe it is right that they are able to charge extortionate amounts before the new code of practice fully comes into force?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for contributing to this short debate. I apologise at the outset for my speed of delivery. I must slow down; I will slow down. I promise the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, that, next time I give an opening speech, I will slow down, enunciate and break for breath every now and again.

Some important points have been raised, which I hope to cover. I will write, of course, because I suspect that I will not be able to answer a couple of things in full. I am grateful for the broad welcome for these regulations. I accept that they have been a long time coming, particularly given that the Traffic Management Act was enacted in 2004. Then there was the issue of commencing Part 6. The delay in commencing that part and in putting these regulations before the Committee is partly down to the pressures of the pandemic; it has been a little busy in the Department for Transport. We wanted to get this right, recognising that it will be up to local authorities to put this into operation. They, too, have been suffering from a lack of time and resources during the pandemic.

We did crack on with it when we felt that things looked a little more positive but we had an issue with the JCSI, which was alluded to by my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering. An error was discovered in the affirmative SI, which meant that we withdrew it and then re-laid it with the error resolved. It did not have an impact on the date of its coming into force, so it did not have an impact on the whole process of what was going to happen, but we are grateful to the JCSI for its work on finding the error because it would have been unforgivable for that to have got on to the statute book.

On the issues relating to the JCSI vires, I might write with a little more detail, perhaps to explain why we slightly differ from the JCSI and how we propose to respond to it. I believe that we will make some changes at the earliest opportunity; potentially, there is an opportunity to make a change in the first designation order, which will come soon.

On the point raised by my noble friend Lady McIntosh on resources, cameras and the gubbins that will have to be in place to operationalise these regulations, we know that some places have already put them in place. We know that London already does it but, let us face it, London is not really like everywhere else. But one might look at Cardiff. For example, in Wales, the Welsh Government commenced the Part 6 powers back in 2013 and, to date, Cardiff City Council and Carmarthenshire have acquired the designation of those powers. In Cardiff, we have a little bit of visibility about how they did it, how much it cost them and what the impact was on their budgets. The council’s latest Annual Park and Traffic Enforcement Report for 2018-19 confirms the following. For the first full year of enforcement, which was actually 2016-17—it is a little while ago, but that was its first full year, and it is the most up to date that we have—it ended up with a combined income of around £3.4 million and a total expenditure of £5.6 million, including parking. We estimate that it probably spent around £3.7 million on bus lane and moving traffic enforcement. So that was a deficit of about £0.3 million. We would expect that, in most circumstances, after the first year when things have settled down, you would end up with a surplus. As I explained in my opening remarks, that surplus can be used only on very specific things.

There is also the issue to consider, if a local authority is putting something in place, that we have said that within the first six months there will be warning notices rather than fines to be paid for any individual attracting a contravention at a particular camera. So that will reduce the income. It is also worth recognising that many of the set-up costs will be one-off costs. There will be ongoing maintenance costs for the CCTV, but they will usually be one-off costs, which can be met more than over just the first year. On the flip side, we know that costs will be mitigated somewhat by the slight increase to the bus lane penalties.

In general, in our new burdens assessment, we suggested that there was no additional burden to local authorities by implementing these regulations, and the Local Government Association did not object to the new burdens assessment. So I think either it will work out cost neutral or there will be a surplus which, as discussed, will be used only for certain areas. I take the point about some sites being very non-compliant and therefore attracting large numbers of fines. Of course, we will make it clear in the guidance how local authorities should deal with those sites. We want the cameras to be in problem sites but, clearly, there will be areas where they can improve their highways layout or, indeed, their traffic signage to make people understand exactly what has happened.

To go back to my noble friend’s question about cameras, those that are used for moving traffic contraventions must be certified by the Vehicle Certification Agency. We have very specific cameras that are certified by the VCA, and we certify cameras at no charge to the LA—the department bears the cost. We have a specific fund from which we draw down. But it is local authorities that are responsible for paying for the cameras and then putting them in place, so it is up to them.

That slightly leads on to the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Scott. The guidance that we will complete will set out all sorts of things in relation to operating these regulations appropriately. I have mentioned those areas where there is lots of contravention. We have worked closely with the sector on the development of the detailed statutory guidance. We have had input from a wide range of stakeholders, including the motoring groups—the RAC and the AA have been very involved—and local government: the Local Government Association and local councils. We have also been in touch with and talked to active travel groups, including Sustrans, British Cycling and Living Streets, as well as the British Parking Association and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. Clearly, we have to get this guidance right. We need to make sure we have the right level of enforcement and in the right places.

Highway Code (Rule 149)

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Wednesday 6th April 2022 Lords Chamber

Finally, what exactly are the Government’s intentions about publicising the changes we are discussing? Against which criteria would the Government judge whether such a publicity or advice campaign had been successful or otherwise achieved its objective? My feeling—which may of course be wrong—is that the Government have done far too little to publicise sufficiently recent changes in the Highway Code and the reasons for them and their purpose. I am sure that this is one of the issues which has prompted the regret Motion that we are discussing this evening.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady McIntosh for enabling the opportunity to discuss this important issue and broader issues around road safety and micromobility, including e-scooters—to which I will probably come back in a letter, as I suspect that it is slightly beyond the scope of what we are discussing this evening. A lot of very important issues were raised, and I want to ensure that I cover them in detail.

Road safety is a key priority for the Government. We are constantly reviewing laws and deliberating over policies that can make our roads safer, and also feel safer, for all road users. The recent changes to rule 149 of the Highway Code fall firmly in the former category of constantly reviewing our laws. The changes to the Highway Code arise from a change in the law when the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2022 came into force on 25 March this year. The regulations broaden the offence of using a hand-held mobile phone while driving, so that it now captures drivers who use their phones for stand-alone or offline functions, as well as the interactive communication functions that had previously formed the parameters of the offence. Once the law had changed, it followed that users of public highways should know about it. Therefore, rule 149 of the Highway Code was duly amended to reflect the change.

This change will make it much easier for the police to enforce the offence. No longer will the police have to prove what the driver was doing on their phone; they will simply have to be satisfied that a driver was indeed using their phone while driving to impose the appropriate sanction. This should act as a substantial deterrent to those who might be tempted to pick up their phone and risk not only their own life but the lives of other road users. As my noble friend Lady McIntosh has confirmed, nothing in the Motion we are debating today implies a criticism of or opposition to the changes in those regulations as reflected in rule 149, but rather a concern about the timing of the update to the Highway Code to reflect that change in law, and how this law deals with users of other modes when they use hand-held mobile phones.

I turn first to the nature and timing of the changes to the Highway Code. The Highway Code needs to keep pace with change and should be updated as necessary for two reasons: first, to reflect changes in the law—as is the case in the update to rule 149—as and when they happen, but clearly not before because the law must have already changed; and, secondly, to reflect changes in how our roads are used. An example of this was the recent change to the hierarchy of use to ensure that vulnerable road users are protected from those who have the capacity to cause more harm. It is not always possible to align these alterations exactly, due to the statutory process that we are required to follow to update the Highway Code as set out in the Road Traffic Act 1988. As noble Lords will know, changes to the Highway Code are laid before your Lordships’ House, and indeed are laid in Parliament for 40 days, before they actually come into law. There is always a process which must be gone through.

Furthermore, sometimes a consultation may precede a change in law or a change to the Highway Code, and consultation feedback needs to be thoroughly analysed. This can further lead to uncertainties as changes are resolved through the correct and proper process post consultation and on publication of the consultation response. Sometimes the public may be under the impression, through media coverage, that something is already in place when actually it is just the noise about the consultation that has alerted road users to what might be happening.

Given how technologies are changing and revolutionising the way people think about how they travel and the sorts of devices they use—including new micromobility devices—we anticipate that there will be further changes to the Highway Code that are not yet in the formal pipeline but are certainly being considered by the department. One such example would be how we will change the code to reflect automated vehicles. We have already consulted on this, and we are considering at the moment exactly how that change will be reflected in the code. It is sometimes not a quick process, because we absolutely have to get it right.

Where it is possible and would not hold up progress unnecessarily, we would endeavour to align changes. But, of course, we had changes in January to the hierarchy of road users, and then changes two months later—it was not two weeks, because we had to lay the changes and then they had to be approved by Parliament—which could come into force only if the law had been changed. However, the law had not been changed by your Lordships’ House or the other place; we were dependent upon that law change. Had the law not been changed, obviously we could not have changed the Highway Code. So, we will continue to change the Highway Code as and when we see fit.

I say again that we will try to combine changes if it is appropriate and there is no risk that it would hold up a change because, for whatever reason, another change does not proceed as appropriate. But I feel that a succession of changes demonstrates how seriously we take road safety in the department and the breadth of work that we are undertaking to ensure that all road users are as safe as they can be, particularly given the changes resulting from a change in usage around the e-scooter trials and cycling, but also to reflect that we are more cognisant nowadays of the vulnerabilities of certain road users.

Adopting this so-called piecemeal approach also has a secondary benefit. As the Minister responsible for this, I feel that sometimes it is quite difficult to communicate these changes. We spend a lot of time and quite a lot of money thinking about how we will communicate changes which pertain to a specific area. If we are making changes to a specific area—such as mobile phones, or motorways and high-speed roads, as we did last year—it is much better and easier to tell the travelling public how we have changed the code and what it means for them. I feel that there is a secondary benefit to focusing on one type of change at a time, because it gives us this ability to hone that message, rather than having a more general message—which, I am afraid, the media would probably not be interested in—of “Check the Highway Code: it has changed”. So, I think that this approach has a lot of benefits.

Of course, we always think about how we communicate, and communication is never a one-off: when we change the Highway Code, it does not mean that we stop communicating a few weeks later because we think that everybody knows about it. That never happens. We always think about where our most vulnerable people need to be advised on elements of road safety. We will do this ad infinitum, and always do.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh expresses regret that the Government have not taken the opportunity afforded by the recent law change to extend the dedicated offence of using hand-held mobile phones to cyclists and e-bike riders. Cyclists and e-bike riders tend to be covered by other laws. The laws that we have changed most recently are under the Road Traffic Act, which tends to cover vehicles. However, like all road users, cyclists and e-bike riders are required to comply with many road traffic laws in the interests both of their own safety and that of other road users, and we reflect that in the Highway Code. So, it is not a specific offence to cycle and use a mobile phone or headphones, but cyclists and e-bike riders can be prosecuted by the police for careless and dangerous cycling, with maximum fines of £1,000 and £2,500 respectively.

So, cyclists must concentrate on what they are doing. I am always appalled when noble Lords stand up in your Lordships’ House and tell me about things that have happened to them on the road, and I am always rather embarrassed that I have not been able to stop it—but I do not stop trying. It is really important that we do not demonise all cyclists. There are some bad apples out there, and we need to make sure that they are held to account. Indeed, my noble friend Lady McIntosh raised the tragic incident which happened to Mrs Briggs. I know that this is an area of concern to her, and we too want to ensure that we crack down on reckless cyclists. We launched a review exploring the case for a specific dangerous cycling offence, and we are looking at what we will do next and will publish our response shortly. Just to put the record straight on e-scooters, it is the case that an e-scooter user falls under the regulations, and it is an offence to use a hand-held mobile phone on an e-scooter. They can be fined, and they could also get six penalty points.

I said that I will write on broader issues around e-scooters, because a lot has been raised. I will also write regarding my noble friend Lord McColl’s point about one-way streets.

On the point about guidance, there were two different types of guidance. We felt there was some confusion with the general guidance to the public, with people saying, “Can I still use my mobile phone if it’s in a cradle?” That was the confusion we wanted to try to mitigate, but we expect police forces and other enforcement agencies to update their own guidance. They do not need us to do it for them, quite frankly; they are very capable.

I reiterate that we do not feel that our approach to the Highway Code has been incorrect. In the circumstances we were presented with, it was important to choose specific topics and put them into the Highway Code when they were ready, or when either the law had changed or the consultation had reached its natural conclusion. We will continue to do so, but of course we will combine changes if it makes sense to do so. The next big change probably will be automated vehicles. I can also update noble Lords: a new hard copy of the Highway Code is available for purchase for £4.99 at all good shops and online retailers. It was published on Monday 4 April. I imagine there will be a subsequent amendment later this year, particularly if we get automated vehicles through, but again we cannot take anything for granted so we would not want to wait until then to make any further changes.

For the time being, I thank all noble Lords who took part in the debate and my noble friend Lady McIntosh. I will certainly write.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for her responses and to everybody who has spoken. We have had a passionate cyclist and a number, myself included, who feel more vulnerable to cyclists, e-scooters and other road users.

I was taken by the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, about how cycling injuries had gone down. One of the reasons for that—and I do not know whether it was through the Highway Code—was that, because of Covid, thankfully cyclists were not allowed to cycle in clumps on country roads. I think that has prevented a lot of accidents.

I look forward to seeing how automated vehicles will respond to reckless and furious cyclists, e-bicyclists and e-scooters, but we live to fight another day.

I am very grateful for all the contributions. I am sure my noble friend is aware that we take great interest in every change to the Highway Code. I thank the Government for this one. I regret once again that it does not extend to vehicles other than motorised vehicles, but I do not intend to press this Motion to a vote. I beg leave to withdraw the Motion.

Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Disabled Persons) Bill

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 1st April 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this thoughtful and wide-ranging debate. I thank my noble friend Lord McLoughlin for explaining the rationale for the Bill and its contents so thoroughly and for taking over the reins from my right honourable and learned friend Jeremy Wright, the Member for Kenilworth and Southam in the other place. He was the one who successfully steered the Bill through to your Lordships’ House.

I am pleased that the Bill has cross-party support and can confirm that the Government fully support it. If passed, it will support our ambition that disabled people should have the same access to transport as everyone else. The importance of the Bill is not to be underestimated. It aims to reduce discrimination against all disabled people, address the barriers they face, prevent overcharging and ensure appropriate assistance when they travel by taxi or private hire vehicle, PHV.

When we talk about disabled people, we are not talking about a small fraction of society. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, said it is about 14 million people, and in the figures I have it is 13.7 million disabled people in Great Britain; that is about one in five of the population. The stats say that disabled people make twice as many journeys by taxi and PHV as non-disabled people. They are a lifeline to so many people, so the Bill’s impact could be significant and wide ranging. I am sure all noble Lords will agree that any disabled person should be able to reasonably travel in a taxi or PHV. That so many disabled people remain without these protections is an unacceptable situation that, I am pleased to say, the Bill will correct.

The Government publish data on prosecutions for offences committed by taxi and PHV drivers in relation to assistance dog refusals and wheelchair user discrimination in England and Wales. I was quite surprised at how few prosecutions actually reach the final stages: there were just 14 in the year ending 31 December 2020. Most of those were for failing to accept bookings to carry assistance dogs. However, we know that in 2019, for example, 81% of prosecutions led to a conviction. The message is that if a disabled person feels that they have been wronged, I think all noble Lords would join me in encouraging them to come forward. We really need to make sure that people who are not abiding by the law as it stands, or will stand in future, are held to account. We know that there is an issue there.

We also know that certain disabled people may not be coming forward as much as they could. I take the point from the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, about ensuring that disabled people are fully aware that the law has changed. It is always of great interest to hear the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, speak on this matter, because she is a wheelchair user and really understands the law. Any taxi driver who crosses her is in for a little bit of a rough ride.

The Bill extends to Scotland and Wales, as noble Lords have pointed out. I would like to reassure noble Lords that we have had discussions with the Scottish and Welsh Governments, who agree to the measures in the Bill. The Bill does not apply to Northern Ireland, in line with the Equality Act 2010.

My officials have also discussed these policy proposals with a wide range of local authorities and taxi and PHV representatives. The responses have been generally positive, reflecting the view, mentioned by so many noble Lords, that most drivers already provide an accessible service; they are happy to do so, and it is a minority we need to bring up to the standards we would expect. I also let noble Lords know that we have engaged regularly with the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee, the Government’s statutory adviser on the needs of disabled people, and its advice has been added to this Bill.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, mentioned resources and the impact on local licensing authorities. Local licensing authority functions in relation to taxis and PHVs tend to be self-funded from the system as a whole, rather than from the taxpayer. Our experience is that, while authorities may experience an initial increase in costs relating to the processing of applications for exemption from the new requirements, or when preparing lists of wheelchair-accessible vehicles for publication, the Government do not expect these to be disproportionate.

To answer the point raised by my noble friend Lord Borwick, it is the actual vehicles rather than the vehicle types that are put on the list. To date, two- thirds of authorities have designated vehicles as being wheelchair accessible, and so have implemented the existing Section 165 protections. We are not aware of the implementation cost having been a barrier for them or having been particularly significant. It will be for licensing authorities to decide which accessible formats it would be reasonable to provide for their list of designated vehicles. However, licensing authorities have existing duties under the Equality Act 2010 to make reasonable adjustments to enable disabled people to access their services, and these duties of course extend to the provision of information.

To ensure that the changes get out into the system, oversight of and support for taxi and PHV drivers and operators is provided by the local licensing authorities and, if the Bill is passed, the current Access for Wheelchair Users to Taxis and PHVs statutory guidance will be updated to support local licensing authorities to implement the requirements under these new duties. The licensing authorities will be responsible for ensuring that their licensed drivers are aware of the new responsibilities.

A number of noble Lords mentioned disability awareness training and I took the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, that sometimes it needs to be improved: absolutely, it must always be improved, but it must also happen. We are looking very carefully at disability awareness training and making sure that it is more widespread. This Private Member’s Bill is narrowly drawn to ensure that we maximise the chances of getting it through, but I also reassure noble Lords that the disability awareness training issue is top of mind. In 2021 about half of local licensing authorities required taxi drivers to undertake disability awareness training and 46% required PHV drivers to do the same.

Noble Lords may have seen—I think it was this week or last week—that we published a consultation on updated best practice guidance for local licensing authorities. We included in it a much stronger recommendation that every driver is required to complete disability awareness training. Noble Lords may say “Well, that’s not enough”, and I agree. This Government will, as soon as legislative time allows, mandate the completion of disability awareness training through national minimum standards for taxi and PHV licensing. We would be very pleased to work with the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, on how we make it as effective as possible. That will be just one of a suite of measures coming through in future on a range of issues relating to taxis and PHV licensing. I am looking forward to discussing them with your Lordships soon, I hope.

A number of issues were raised, and I will write in much greater detail than I am able to respond today. I am also very happy to meet my noble friend Lord Borwick. As the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, was speaking, I was thinking that she should join the meeting with my noble friend Lord Borwick—so she is duly invited.

The noble Lord, Lord Boateng, mentioned EV chargers —a topic which always exercises your Lordships’ House, and quite rightly. We take accessibility of EV chargers very seriously, so I offer him a meeting with my colleague, Minister Harrison, who is responsible for EV chargers. She will be able to talk about what we have done, and we would be very interested to hear what we should do to make sure they are accessible.

I take forward the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Mann, about transport to football matches. I will take that away; I will look at Hansard to see exactly what he said and where we might be able to do something. It is a really important point. Accessibility in football has improved enormously, but if you cannot get to the match it is pointless the stadium being more accessible. My nephew, who is a wheelchair user, is a massive fan of Manchester City and a season ticket holder. He really enjoys his journeys there. It is a huge boost for him to go to the stadium and I would like to make sure we do as much as we can for transport as well. So I will have a look at that and see what more we can do.

I take the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, about the availability of wheelchair-accessible vehicles. It is a very significant issue. There is not necessarily a straightforward solution, but we must look at all the issues she raised and see what we can do to improve availability, because I agree that it is not good enough at the moment.

I am grateful once again to everybody who has taken part in the debate today and I look forward to supporting the Bill as it continues its passage.

P&O Ferries

Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts

Tuesday 29th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

A week ago, I asked the Government what had happened to the two commitments given on 25 June 2020 to

“consider other options in regard to these operations”—

that is, low-cost employment models on some ferry routes—and to

“consider whether further changes are required when the Equality Act regulations are reviewed towards the end of this year”,—[Official Report, 25/6/20; col. 431.]

that is, the end of 2020, in relation to nationality-based differential pay in the maritime sector, the only sector where this operates. Last week the Government conceded that the review had not been completed. In other words, the Government have known about the issues over differential pay levels, which are at the heart of this dispute, and have done nothing about them over the past year and three-quarters. As a result, we now have this unacceptable crisis situation with P&O Ferries and DP World: 800 people are losing their jobs and P&O Ferries is taking unacceptable profit-maximising or loss-reduction action that was wholly predictable, as the Government have known for at least one and three-quarter years. Why have the Government failed to act over that period?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government share the outrage expressed by the noble Lord at the behaviour of DP World and P&O Ferries. When they are developed and ready, which I expect to be shortly, we will update the House on a package of measures to ensure that P&O Ferries cannot see through its plans. We will address the immediate challenges faced by those affected and include measures to strengthen legal protections, including coverage of the national minimum wage.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, in 2020, when the Government announced that UK seafarers would be entitled to the minimum wage, they made the exception of ships exercising innocent passage and transit passage through UK waters. P&O Ferries is not the only company doing that. Can the Minister explain why the exception was made? Can she tell us whether the Government are aware of any other ferry companies operating in that way which are seeking to exploit this loophole on pay? Can the Government confirm that they will not repeat the PR disaster that P&O Ferries has made by continuing to work with the company on its freeport programme or any other government-based project?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I can reassure the noble Baroness that we are looking at all relationships that the Government have with DP World and with P&O Ferries. We will develop our thinking on that as more information comes forward. We are in conversation with the unions and other operators as part of an ongoing, constructive dialogue about the package of measures which will be announced shortly. I reassure the noble Baroness that we are able to provide greater employment rights to seafarers operating in UK waters than to those operating on international services, where the rights are different and come under different law.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that, although the Government seemed to be a bit slow off the mark, the measures now taken are appreciated by the many trade unionists who have lost their jobs? I encourage the Government to maintain this pressure on P&O and to look at other ways in which this company can be made to realise that its behaviour is unacceptable and will have consequences.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I can reassure my noble friend that we are maintaining the pressure on P&O Ferries. The Secretary of State wrote to the chief executive of P&O Ferries yesterday, explicitly asking him to reconsider the actions that it is taking, to take the opportunity to do right by its workforce, and then to return to the table to have discussions with seafarers to ensure that we can find a way forward.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, now that Mr Hebblethwaite has apparently rejected the Government’s proposals which they made to him in writing yesterday, where they explained that they wanted him to re-engage the workforce, how will the Government ensure that he does it?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I too noticed that a letter from Mr Hebblethwaite had been published on Twitter earlier today. Unfortunately, I do not have an update following that letter. Obviously, we are considering his response and will have an update in due course, while of course working speedily on a package of measures. We note the response from Mr Hebblethwaite; we have views on that.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

What are we going to do to put Mr Hebblethwaite on the spot and make sure that the 800 people who have been shamefully and appallingly treated get some recompense? What about the remark that he made about compensation? Has he explained what he means by that?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

We are aware that Mr Hebblethwaite has made a number of remarks recently. We are trying to get to the bottom of them. We are also trying to get to the bottom of the explanations by P&O Ferries for some of the actions that it has taken recently. We are looking at them to establish whether they are legal. We are also aware of some suggestions that there have been breaches of the national minimum wage. Therefore, the Business Secretary has asked the Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate to investigate that. Of course, the Maritime and Coastguard Agency is inspecting every single ship that is due to sail on these routes. To date, two have failed their inspections and therefore further work is required.

[Lord Hendy (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is to be congratulated that a package of measures is to be introduced, late thought it may be, but will that package include the preservation of the right to collective bargaining and consultation, which this company so clearly flouted?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

When it comes to collective bargaining and negotiations with the unions, we need to get to the bottom of whether the existing law was disregarded in this case. Mr Hebblethwaite seemed to suggest that it might have been, which was unwise.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

Does the inspection by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency extend to the competence of the agency workers who have been recruited or is it simply as to the quality of the ship itself?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I can reassure my noble friend that the port state control inspections being undertaken on all affected vessels include a normal PSC inspection. They also look at crew employment contracts, crew qualifications, crew familiarisation and emergency preparedness.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, 40 years ago next month, a task force went to the south Atlantic. It had 73 merchant ships. The bulk of the people on board those were of course British merchant seamen, because when we fight a war with our merchant ships, we need British merchant seamen there. Part of the problem with all the complexity in this area is that it has driven British merchant seamen out of the business. Do the Government have any plans to ensure that we have sufficient merchant seamen for any strategic needs we might have in the future?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Yes, the Government are well aware of that issue. We started the work back in 2019 when we published Maritime 2050. We want to ensure that we have British people with the right skills to work on British ships in British-based operations.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, surely letters from Ministers will not be sufficient to solve this problem. The deadline for workers to accept the terms put forward by P&O is fast approaching. Legislation will be urgently needed to resolve the situation for workers who have been so cruelly abused by P&O.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

All I can say to the noble Lord is to reiterate what I have already said: we are working at pace on a package of measures which we hope to announce very shortly.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is not just P&O, appalling though its conduct has been? Will she answer the question from the Liberal Democrat Front Bench and tell us how many other shipping companies which ply British waters are not meeting the British minimum wage?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not have that information to hand. However, following our discussions with the operators, I will certainly write to the noble Lord about the package of measures and how they may operate in the future.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, a statement made in the other place said that the Government are continuing to review the contracts which P&O Ferries has with them. Does that include reviewing the contracts with DP World, the owner of P&O Ferries and, specifically, the freeports contracts?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I reassure the noble Baroness that we are reviewing all of our relationships and contracts with both P&O Ferries and DP World.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from the questions from my noble friend Lord Snape and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, can the Minister explain the difference in employment rights and arrangements between the various ships operating in UK waters? What are UK waters? Do they include Dover to Calais, Northern Ireland to Scotland or England, and—I think probably not—Dublin to Holyhead? How do these arrangements vary or differ from the contracts for ships which may be registered in the UK but are longer distance and still international, carrying containers or oil? There seems to be a lot of confusion, which I suspect P&O directors are trying to take advantage of by various devious means.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord has highlighted the complexity of employment law in the maritime sector. The International Labour Organization has the Maritime Labour Convention, which sets out the minimum standards for some key employment and working conditions policy areas. However, it does not go nearly as far as we are able to go from a UK perspective for seafarers who are UK residents, work on a UK-registered vessel and are ordinarily working in the UK. We are able to offer them the same levels of protections as they would get if they were working onshore.