Lorry Drivers
Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and refer to my interests on the register.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)
My Lords, the Government hold regular meetings with the road haulage industry regarding driver shortages and the impact on supply chains. On 16 June, I hosted an industry round table, alongside the Employment Minister. We are supporting HGV driver training through apprenticeships and training for jobseekers, and encouraging drivers who need to renew their driver’s certificate of professional competence to return to the sector.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I welcome the government action. Brexit and Covid combined have, in part, led to the crisis that we face, as well as the closure of test centres during the Covid pandemic last year, preventing training of new drivers. The industry is stepping up to the plate by agreeing to pay drivers more. Will the Government look very carefully at encouraging women drivers to take up lorry driving, and at adding HGV drivers to the UK skills shortage list, as well as trying to provide even more training, test centres and the reissuing of licences?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
If my noble friend does not mind, I shall focus on the first of those questions. First, I welcome any more pay for professional drivers, because they do an outstanding job. I recognise what my noble friend says about diversity. It is a very white, male sector. There are huge opportunities for the sector to diversify and, when it comes up with plans to do so—for example, Logistics UK’s Year of Logistics, which I hope we will get under way soon—I will be very happy to support them.
Baroness Quin (Lab) [V]
My Lords, perhaps I may pick up on the second part of the question of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and ask about adding lorry drivers to the post-Brexit skilled occupation list. I also ask for a period of not just six months but 18 months, which is what I understand the industry wants, in order to be able to attract, recruit and train new British drivers.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
The industry needs to do an awful lot more to recruit, train and retain its staff, and perhaps I will be able to get into that a little later, but on foreign labour, the UK labour market has changed dramatically due to the pandemic. Many UK workers face an uncertain future. There will be employment opportunities within the professional driving sector, and I hope that they will apply for them.
Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)
My Lords, lorry drivers have been the hidden heroes of this pandemic and they deserve our full support. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that such jobs require good skills, training and investment, and are equally important to driving our economy forward as any university degree?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I agree that they have been some of the heroes during the pandemic, and ensure that I frequently tell them so. I think they have done a fantastic job, but it is time for the industry to step up just a little more. On 1 August last year, we suspended the HGV levy. This has saved the industry hundreds of millions of pounds. For each truck, it costs about £900 a year, so if you are a haulier with 3,000 trucks, you save £2.5 million. That could train 800 new drivers. I ask the industry to recruit those people and train them.
Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]
Finding effective solutions means first identifying the cause. Driver and other staff shortage problems could lead to higher food prices. I get the impression from the Minister’s answers that the Government do not accept any responsibility for the present situation, but may I seek clarification on that? Do the Government think that the staff shortage problems are due to the end of free movement and the way they are now implementing border controls, or due to the effect of repeated Covid lockdowns, or do the Government think they have no responsibility and that the staff shortages are due to low pay and poor terms and conditions of employment, inadequate manpower planning or a failure by the industry to invest in proper training programmes to meet future manpower needs?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
All of the above; those are the issues we are facing. I have been Roads Minister now for two years, and I had this conversation with the haulage sector two years ago. It was very clear then that foreign labour would not be available to it. It has known that this was coming down the track. The TSC issued a report in 2016, pointing out exactly what the sector needed to do to address the shortage it had then, and yet still not enough has been done. I would accept that the Government stand ready to help. We have listened to the industry and work alongside the it. For example, on HGV testing, I have doubled the number of tests every week from the pre-Covid level. We are doing everything we can, and we need the industry to work in partnership with us.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
To ensure that goods kept flowing into the United Kingdom after the end of the transition period, the Government recognised that there was a shortage in the capacity in our ports, so they deferred checks for hauliers. Why are they not deferring the Immigration Rules changes for hauliers, to ensure that they are able to bring goods into this country properly?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
Hauliers are able to bring goods into this country properly. The issue is that there is a driver shortage in the UK market. There is also a shortage in the EU market, actually, and in many economies. I can announce to your Lordships’ House today that I have just temporarily extended drivers’ hours. I accept that that is definitely not a long-term solution: we must ensure that drivers’ safety is not compromised, and operators must notify the DfT.
Lord McLoughlin (Con)
The announcement my noble friend just made will be very welcome to the industry. Speaking to people in the industry, they say that they are facing the biggest crisis that they can recall in driver recruitment. Will the Government consider temporarily lifting the CPC regulations and the need for them for domestic drivers, now we are no longer in the European Union?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I thank my noble friend for his question. I have looked very carefully at driver CPC. It is my opinion that we need to put the “professional” back into professional driving. Driver CPC is a really good way to ensure ongoing training for the profession. It is one day a year, which I think is about the right amount of training. It ensures that they are up to date and maintain their skills and knowledge of the roads. The Government have funding available to support those who have a C+E licence who need to get their driver CPC, so there is a way for people to upgrade their qualification.
Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]
My Lords, as president of the CBI, I know that employers are facing the perfect storm of staff shortages as the economy reopens. First, does the Minister agree that the Government should immediately update the immigration shortage occupation list, as well as helping workers to gain skills? Secondly, does the Minister agree that, with cases projected to rise to up to 100,000 a day, instead of waiting until 16 August, from 19 July, instead of people having to isolate after coming into contact with a Covid-positive individual, we should have a test and release system, including using lateral flow tests, which will allow people to carry on with work?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I think that I have already answered the noble Lord’s first question. On his second, obviously the Government will be watching the economy as we go through this period of lifting the restrictions and monitoring the impact carefully.
Lord Whitty (Lab) [V]
The Minister appears to be blaming the industry and the pandemic but, given that she referred to discussions in 2016 and 2018, do the Government not have some responsibility in this respect? This crisis was eminently predictable, given the age profile of drivers and the likely reaction of east European drivers to Brexit. Do the Government need more powers and responsibilities to establish an emergency programme of training for qualified HGV drivers and to implement it in concert with the industry, unions and FE sector now?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I have said that this is a partnership between the industry and the Government. We will do what we can and we need industry to step up to the plate. I reiterate that the HGV levy has been lifted until mid-2022. That is a huge saving for the sector. It has the money that it could now invest in skills, and I very much encourage it to do so.
Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]
The railways are very hungry for traffic. The Minister has a list that I gave her of simple modifications that could be made and there are resources available. Will she use the idle resources on our railways to better advantage to move freight?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
The noble Lord will know that I am a great fan of rail freight and where it is appropriate to shift freight to rail we certainly should do so. However, one thing that we should be setting up with the industry is a clear and transparent charter that sets out good practice, decent minimum standards for our professional drivers and a commitment to initial and ongoing training. It is time to put the “professional” back into professional drivers and I would be happy to support the industry in working towards such a charter for hauliers and their customers.
Lord Birt (CB) [V]
My Lords, it is not just lorry drivers. I detect skill shortages in every part of my day-to-day personal and business life—shortages of roofers, data scientists, maintenance engineers, digital marketeers, gardeners, and many more. Do the Government have an analytical grip on the functioning of the UK’s labour market? Do we have appropriate educational skills and immigration policies to enable our economy to reap its full potential?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
Any government Minister could probably spend about an hour talking about all our responses to the pandemic, the changes to our labour market and what will be needed in different parts of the sector. One of the big things that the Government are focused on is apprenticeships. In the haulage sector in particular, we did exactly as it asked. We increased the C+E apprenticeship from £6,000 to £7,000 a year. We now need the industry to step up and take that £7,000; there is a £3,000 incentive if that is done before 30 September. Let us get more people into jobs.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.
Historical Railways Estate
Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and remind the House of my railway interests declared in the register.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)
My Lords, the management of the historic railways estate is kept under constant review and there is an independent quarterly audit. Checks are made to ensure that proposals do not prejudice the reopening of railway lines, and Highways England has regular discussions with the devolved Administrations, local authorities and other stakeholders.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will agree that the most significant and expensive obstacle to fulfilling the Government’s plans to reverse the Beeching cuts of the 1960s and 1970s is restoring the infrastructure—track bed and bridges particularly—that was so short-sightedly destroyed after lines were closed. No doubt she has read the article and leader in Saturday’s Times. Can she confirm that Highways England has now reduced to 69 its hitlist of 134 structures to be destroyed? Will she instruct it to consult not just with local authorities but with cycling and walking groups and heritage railways, before it goes ahead with any more of the cultural vandalism that we have already seen?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I am really happy to reassure the noble Lord that Highways England already does exactly what he asked me to make sure that it does. It consults with local authorities, parish councils, people who run active travel schemes and, of course, heritage railway providers, whether or not the railway is actually built. Of the 3,250 railway properties, some will require work that is in excess of maintenance: that might include infilling, but of course infilling can be reversed.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
My Lords, the Historical Railways Estate seems to be the perfect body to take forward the Government’s stated policy to reverse the Beeching cuts and promote active travel. However, it does not have a budget from Highways England for changes to the system in terms of active travel. Does it have a budget for reversing the Beeching cuts?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I am afraid I am not aware of the body the noble Baroness has just referenced. There are all sorts of budgets around. Obviously there is £500 million in the Restoring Your Railway fund and up to £2 billion in terms of cycling and walking. It is important to understand that, where particular railway properties fall into either of these schemes, their ownership can be transferred to the scheme’s promoters and therefore they can be maintained in future.
Lord Young of Cookham (Con)
My Lords, in his foreword to the White Paper Great British Railways, the Secretary of State said that
“we now propose … ending the fragmentation of the past and bringing the network under single national leadership.”
Chapter 3 begins:
“Great British Railways will bring together the whole system”.
Can my noble friend confirm that responsibility for the Historical Railways Estate will be taken back from Highways England and given to Great British Railways?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I thank my noble friend for his suggestion, which I note with great interest. However, no decisions have been put to Ministers about a transfer of some or all of the Historical Railways Estate to Great British Railways. There would need to be a power in the rail Bill and, although this might be contemplated, no decision has yet been made on that matter.
Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]
My Lords, do we not need a clear indication for every line that was vandalised by Beeching as to whether it is feasible to restore the services on it? Is that not the minimum we need? And, while we are on this, can I make a plea to restore the line from Penrith to Keswick in the Lake District? It is pretty well there; it requires just the odd bridge to be replaced and we could do that pretty quickly. It would be great for tourism and great for the environment.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I hear what the noble Lord has to say. Of course, it is not quite that simple, because some schemes which were taken out by Beeching will not be replaced because of population changes and all sorts of different reasons. But, of course, we do welcome ideas and I note his intervention on the Penrith line. But it is the case that, even where we want to restore the railway, the infrastructure in place needs to be substantially rebuilt to meet modern safety standards.
Baroness Randerson (LD)
Highways England states that it is not funded to enable cycling and walking projects. But if local authorities are not able to take on a property, Highways England is responsible for making it safe, which sometimes costs a great deal of money. Can the Minister reassure us that the Government will consider the proposal to ensure that Highways England can use that money instead as a proper part of a partnership with local authorities in order to create proper cycling and walking projects?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I say to the noble Baroness that we would run the risk there of sharing responsibilities across two very disparate organisations that have different priorities. In my view, local authorities should be prioritising cycling and walking projects. They are able to take over these structures—Highways England would welcome them with open arms—such that they can put them within their active travel plans and make them useful for the future.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I declare my interest as president of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. Will my noble friend accept that opening up the extension to Whitby has ensured the increasing popularity of that railway? Will the Government ensure that future extensions are looked on favourably to ensure that it remains the most popular and most visited attraction in North Yorkshire?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My noble friend is well aware that the Restoring Your Railway fund is available, and that any proposals put forward are given a fair hearing.
Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]
Attempts are being made to progress some of these Highways England demolition and infilling schemes under permitted development powers, which avoid the need for explanation and the challenges and objections that often accompany normal planning processes—including the need to seek permission from local councils. How is a declared policy of reopening former railway lines or encouraging walking and cycling tracks over disused railway lines consistent with Highways England blocking or severing potential routes by demolishing or filling in currently disused railway structures through a back-door process using permitted development powers, which stifles challenges and objections from local communities and organisations?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I would like to reassure your Lordships’ House that those structures that are potentially going to be infilled over the next five years—again, I say “potentially”—or be subject to other action, are fewer than 2.6% of all assets. Permitted development orders exist to prevent an emergency from occurring. Therefore, Highways England uses permitted development orders only where there is an emergency situation. I reassure noble Lords that to date Highways England has usually managed to get planning permission for any changes.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con) [V]
My Lords, can the Minister comment on whether Highways England, which manages the Historical Railways Estate, should be excluded from using permitted development rights to infill bridges or other structures in the estate, so as to ensure that it actively engages with local authorities and other organisations on the future of assets that run through an area, so that these can be considered for cycling or other schemes ahead of any works?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My noble friend has once again raised the issue of permitted development orders. I restate that they are used only in emergency circumstances. I would just like to remind noble Lords that a couple of decades ago, at the Clifton Hall/Black Harry tunnel in Salford, the shaft collapsed, a house was demolished and the residents were killed in their beds. This is a serious issue we are talking about here: sometimes there are emergency circumstances when permitted development orders are required. But, as I have said, in the majority of cases they are not required, and planning permission is sought and given.
Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]
My Lords, given the concerns noble Lords have raised on this Question, and the fact that the Minister said it is very important that there is local involvement, surely the answer is to require all such changes to these structures to be the subject of a full planning application.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
Well, I think I have now answered that question three times, but I will give it another go. There is a full planning application except in cases where there is likely to be an emergency.
Lord Jones of Cheltenham (LD) [V]
The Minister knows of my interest in the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway, which was extended from Toddington to Broadway in 2018. Can she assure me that no legacy structures on the current route, or possible future extensions from Broadway to Honeybourne and beyond, are under threat of demolition or infilling? Is she making any progress on the burning issue of securing affordable stocks of lump coal, which makes steam engines work? Without that, the whole network could end.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I will have to write to the noble Lord on the availability of lump coal and certainly on his specific request about a certain line and whether there are any structures on it. I am afraid I sadly do not have the information and I will have to write.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.
Space Industry (Appeals) Regulations 2021
Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
That the draft Regulations and Order laid before the House on 24 May be approved.
Relevant document: 4th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 29 June.
International Travel
Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]
Tourism and other transport industries need a clear plan and clarity now over timings for easing restrictions on international travel, and the Government failed to provide that in the Commons on Tuesday. Passenger numbers for UK aviation are down by nearly 90% compared to 2019—far more than in our major European competitors. UK airlines have announced over 30,000 job cuts so far, without taking account of the impact on the wider supply chain. ABTA has said that 44% of its members expect further redundancies as furlough tapers off. The aviation and tourism industries need help now. All the Government do is repeat figures from the general schemes from which they have received support, but the aviation industry—the hardest-hit sector—was promised sector-specific support. When are the Government going to deliver what they promised?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)
My Lords, the Government are working extremely closely with all parts of the travel sector, and we recognise that it has been a very difficult time for it. Significant support has already been given to the sector, and indeed there has been sector-specific support for airports. We will, of course, continue to work closely with them in the medium term.
Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]
International travellers all have to pass through the border security at airports. This has not had a good reputation for efficiency in the past, so can the Minister give us some reassurance that matters are improving?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I hope that I can provide some reassurance, although we accept and have been very clear that wait times at the border may be extended due to biosecurity checks. However, the PLF system—the passenger locator form—has now been further automated such that you cannot submit it until you have fully completed it, which makes it easier for carriers and Border Force. Secondly, we are rolling out an upgrade to the e-gates; they will be able to recognise the PLF once it is completed. We reckon that 51% of e-gates will be updated by the end of July.
Lord Udny-Lister (Con)
My Lords, we have witnessed the chaos of the red, amber and green light system, with the lights changing quicker than any set of traffic lights ever has. We know that there will be variants. We know that, as we and the rest of the world vaccinates more, there will be even more variants coming through, so at some point we have to trust the vaccines. Will the Minister assure the House that she is going to get some stability into the system so that both tourists and, perhaps more importantly, businessmen can plan? Having seen what has happened in Malta in the last few days, will she also ensure that we can get something that is recognised as a vaccine certificate around the world?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I am delighted to tell my noble friend that Malta is now accepting the NHS app via a verification system, so it has gone digital. Therefore, I hope that people will look forward to travelling to Malta. As the Roads Minister, I know that what he says is not quite true—traffic lights do change quite quickly—but he does have a point: we need to provide stability. This is what we have done with the traffic light system, because we have to recognise that, like it or not, things will change. Things will change in other countries; they are beyond our control. They will also have their own issues with vaccination, whether it is successful or not, and they will have their own categories for the types of people that can arrive. I believe that our traffic light system is absolutely appropriate. It provides clarity, although I accept that it may change over time.
Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB)
My Lords, could the Minister please assist the House to understand what the Secretary of State for Transport attempted to say the other day about travel to the United States? Could she clarify precisely when travel to our so-called closest ally will be available, given that we are both equally vaccinated countries? Why is it possible to fly to Mexico from London and then go to the United States, but not to go from London to the United States when, in theory, Mexico does not have the same level of vaccination and has a higher level of coronavirus cases? Could the Minister please explain exactly what the situation is and, for goodness’ sake, when we can go?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
Well, we know that the Prime Minister and President Biden are very keen to return to safe transatlantic travel as soon as possible. The UK-US experts working group is up and running, and it is looking through all the technology and protocols that would need to be in place. However, the US is slightly different to the UK, and it has 50 different states with 50 different systems that register whether someone has been vaccinated or not, so there is a little work to be done. Obviously, I cannot give the noble Lord a timeline, but we are very keen to reopen our borders to the US, and we will do so when it is safe.
Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)
My Lords, you can transit through Italy, remain for 36 hours and not quarantine—but, sadly, not if you are an England fan. From abroad, you can come here, stay longer and not quarantine if you are a politician, VIP, official or sponsor. This confirms that, whatever the variant, the vaccines work. Can my noble friend inform the Department of Health that, until this incessant scaremongering stops, our airline and tourism sectors will continue to haemorrhage jobs and will never recover?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
As I have set out previously—I agree with my noble friend—the travel industry is having a very difficult time, but we can see a light at the end of the tunnel. We have to make sure that we act with public health as our priority. We must have a cautious approach, because we cannot risk everything that we have been able to do with the vaccine programme by importing variants of concern from overseas.
Lord Berkeley (Lab)
My Lords, in the Financial Times yesterday, Ministers are quoted as saying that any businessman coming into this country who could offer £300 million—I think that was the figure—of investment in the country could be exempted from quarantine. Can I ask the Minister whether that would have applied to Mr Greensill and Mr Gupta, who have been saving the British steel industry for decades? How does this work, in terms of the medical reasons for doing it? Is this not a case of double standards for those that Ministers like?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
Let me explain to the noble Lord exactly what is going on here. There is an exemption from the requirement to quarantine, and it applies to a very limited number of specific business activities where these cannot be undertaken remotely or by anyone other than the exempt executive and would serve to create or preserve very large numbers of UK jobs—500 plus. So, that is potentially where his number came from. This exemption has been very significantly tightened since a version of it was in force in December. The qualifying threshold has been increased tenfold, and its scope has been reduced to permit only the most critical activities.
Lord Lansley (Con)
My Lords, I draw attention to my interests as recorded in the register. The traffic light system is only one side of the coin; the other side is the restrictions that may be imposed by other countries. My noble friend will be aware that the EU has brought in its digital Covid certificates, starting today. Can I ask my noble friend whether the Government intend—and may succeed—to align our vaccination passports with the digital Covid certificate in the EU?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My noble friend makes a really important point, and that is why it is so important that countries are able to go digital where they are going to accept travellers. That is why we are so delighted that Malta has done that in accepting the UK NHS app. Of course, we are working with all our key destination countries to try to align the digital certification for Covid vaccination, and we will continue to do so. There are other considerations as to whether the countries want us there at all, but certainly it is worth building that relationship on digitisation ahead of any change in entry requirements.
Viscount Waverley (CB)
My Lords, why does the GOV.UK website inform residents living abroad that they can travel to their country, but as you click through to links within the same website it states that you should not travel to amber countries. Which is it? When doing so, why do PCR tests in many destination countries cost a fraction of the cost in the UK when presumably they must use the same broad technique to arrive at the same result?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I do not know where the noble Viscount’s confusion has come from, but it is made very clear that when it comes to amber and red countries, the advice is not to travel. Of course, there will be people who will have personal reasons to travel, such as for a funeral, et cetera, but the advice is not to travel and the Government are very clear on that. With regard to PCR tests, in the UK it costs £85 for a two-test package or under £50 for a single-test package. If I look at comparisons, for example, the median cost of just one PCR test in the US is £90 and the average cost for a PCR for travel abroad in Spain is between €130 and €240, so we compare quite well to that. Whatever the cost of the PCR test, it is important that we bear down on those costs and that we take the advantage of economies of scale as more people are able to travel in the future.
The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)
My Lords, the time allocated for this Question has elapsed. I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, who did not get in.
Space Industry (Appeals) Regulations 2021
Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
That the Grand Committee do consider the Space Industry (Appeals) Regulations 2021.
Relevant document: 4th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)
My Lords, these regulations relating to the space industry are made under the powers conferred by the Space Industry Act 2018, which I will call the SIA. The contracting-out order is made under the powers conferred by the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994. There are four draft instruments before the Committee, each addressing a different aspect of the legal regime required to regulate commercial spaceflight from the UK. These instruments will apply to England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, as space is a reserved matter.
Regulatory functions for satellite licensing under the Outer Space Act 1986 are currently undertaken by the UK Space Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State, but because the space agency is also responsible for administering grants to stimulate market growth, in June 2020 the Secretary of State directed that those activities under the Outer Space Act 1986 and all activities under the SIA should be regulated by the Civil Aviation Authority, the CAA. This is to avoid a potential conflict of interest for the UK Space Agency and follows the policy of successive Governments to separate safety regulation from sector promotion following the 1988 Piper Alpha disaster. To enact this direction, the contracting-out order will authorise the CAA to carry out regulatory and licensing activities under the Outer Space Act 1986 on the Secretary of State’s behalf, in addition to its responsibilities under the SIA.
An additional instrument will follow, using the negative resolution procedure. This is an employment relations SI that will enable the transfer of staff from the UK Space Agency to the CAA.
The CAA is a seasoned regulator with over 40 years’ experience regulating aerodromes, aircraft, security, the environment and the use of airspace. With its expertise and strong international reputation, the CAA has been a partner in the development of the Space Industry Regulations from the outset. Once stood up as the regulator, the CAA can begin accepting licence applications for spaceflight activities.
The CAA cannot yet commit to a precise timeframe for granting licences, especially for initial applications, but it is expected that applications will initially take between six and 12 months to process. Of course, as the industry develops and the regulator grows its expertise, this timeframe will reduce. The regulator will be in contact with applicants at every step so that this timing will not impede industry’s ambitions. I am aware that other spacefaring nations, such as the US, have shorter stated application times of, for example, 180 days. It should be noted, however, that this excludes the pre-application period, which can be two to five years ahead of any application being submitted.
The Space Industry Regulations are a result of a collaboration across government, building on existing space and aviation legislation and harnessing a range of regulatory, technical and legal expertise. The Department for Transport, the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the UK Space Agency and the CAA have worked together closely, with the support of the Health and Safety Executive and the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, to develop these regulations.
The Space Industry Regulations make provisions to enable the licensing and regulation of spaceflight activities, the establishment of spaceports and the licensing of range-control service providers in the UK. These regulations are designed to enable UK launches from 2022 and will promote growth, innovation and sustainability while protecting public safety, security and the UK’s international relations.
The Space Industry Regulations provide transparency to prospective licence holders and wider stakeholders on the outcomes that are expected of licence holders, facilitating consistency, fairness and proper decision-making by the regulator. These regulations are augmented by detailed and practical guidance documents and the regulator’s licensing rules.
The regulations include provisions regarding eligibility, risk, training, security, debris mitigation, and insurance and liabilities. Insurance and liabilities were one of the key issues raised in your Lordships’ House and by industry stakeholders during the passage of the SIA, with key concerns about unlimited liability and the availability and cost of insurance to cover such unlimited liability. The Government have listened to these concerns and taken action to limit operator liability in all operator licences. Their policy intention is that all operator licences issued under the SIA will contain a limit of operator liability with respect to claims made under Sections 34 and 36 of the Act. Operators will therefore not face unlimited liability for actions carried out in compliance with the Act and licence conditions. The regulations contain the necessary provisions to implement this policy.
In line with the statutory guidance requirements of the SIA, the guidance material sets out the form and content of an assessment of environmental effects—an AEE—which is required to be submitted with every spaceport and launch operator licence application.
In order to ensure that accidents are investigated by a body independent of the CAA, the Spaceflight Activities (Investigation of Spaceflight Accidents) Regulations 2021 establish the space accident investigation authority and make provisions for how accident investigations will be carried out. Building on the long- established principles used to investigate aircraft accidents, these regulations are necessary to ensure that lessons are learned, safety is improved and further accidents are prevented.
The Space Industry (Appeals) Regulations 2021 add to the provisions in the SIA relating to appeals by specifying which decisions under the Space Industry Regulations are appealable. These regulations set out how a panel will be established and the process which the appeal panel and the parties to the appeal are to follow. They also set out the process that should be followed by the parties to the appeal, right from the initial application for permission to appeal all the way through to the decision that may be taken by the panel and the consequences for the parties.
To conclude, these regulations are a modern legal and regulatory framework that will enable the UK to launch commercial space flights. They create the conditions for accessing space from the UK, and, as I am sure that all noble Lords will agree, they will give us the opportunity to accelerate the growth of the UK space sector and demonstrate the UK’s maturity as a spacefaring nation.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My Lords, as always, all the briefing in the world will not cover all the questions asked by noble Lords. Nor will I be able to make some—at least one—of the commitments asked of me without getting into deep trouble. That means that I will write with a number of answers to the questions asked today.
Our aim here is simple, even if the regulations are a little lengthy and complex. We want to be the first country in Europe to offer small-scale satellite manufacturers a direct end-to-end route to launch from Europe, building on the UK’s leading small satellite industry. As the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, pointed out, it is absolutely critical that we are part of this industry. He reminded noble Lords of the huge opportunities ahead; I welcome his support.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked specifically how the regulations would support our scientific research communities. The answer is simple: they will provide domestic access to space for the UK’s scientific community, for whom space is an invaluable research environment, opening up new opportunities for exploration and discovery, and it could accelerate the exploitation of revolutionary future spaceflight technologies.
The noble Lord also asked about investment in the regions and whether the industry would benefit the whole of the UK. The UK Space Agency has awarded substantial grants across the UK. This will help the UK’s growing spaceflight capabilities. Such investment includes £31.5 million to help establish vertical launch services from Scotland, comprising £2.5 million to Highlands and Islands Enterprise to develop Space Hub Sutherland, £7.35 million as part of £20 million central and local government funding to support horizontal launch by Virgin Orbit from Spaceport Cornwall, and up to £1.3 million to develop business plans for small satellite launch and sub-orbital flights from airports in Machrihanish, Snowdonia and Cornwall.
These places are across the UK. The funding will support new, quality jobs in all these regions. I point out to the noble Lord that we will not be directing the supply chain as to what it can and cannot buy from whom, because I think we all recognise that this is a very technologically advanced industry, but of course we will work with the sector as it develops to make sure that we have the skills, the technology and the materials so that if we are able to provide those domestically, we will.
The noble Lord, Lord McNally, asked whether we really will have our first commercial launch by 2022. I really hope so. I admit that this timeframe is a little ambitious, but with this level of investment and these regulations I think we are laying a very solid foundation. As I have mentioned, space is a reserved matter, so the regulations apply to the entire UK.
The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, said that we needed a space strategy, while the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, felt that there was a lack of ambition and direction from the Government. I can assure all noble Lords that this is absolutely not the case. The Prime Minister, the Secretary of State and the Government as a whole are determined to develop an ambitious national space strategy by the summer. This will ensure that the UK can establish itself as a global player and seize these economic opportunities.
Back down to earth, so to speak, and on the CAA as regulator, I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, that the CAA is specified in Part 2 of the Space Industry Regulations, but I will clarify that in writing. I welcome the intervention from my noble friend Lord Hannan, who I see has printed off all 500 pages of the regulations et cetera. I am not entirely sure that he has read them all, so I hope he will use that paper as scrap if he does intend to use them in future.
It is important that we focus on the role of the CAA, which is a hugely capable regulator. It is gearing up for its role as the regulator. It will utilise its existing space capability and transfer nine or 10 staff from the UK Space Agency and take on new staff, including specialist engineers. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, asked, as she does with regularity, about resourcing for the Civil Aviation Authority. I reassure her that it will have a dedicated budget for regulating space flight. It has the capacity and some of the skills already, and it will be able to build on those.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked when the CAA would undertake responsibilities under the contracting-out order. The functions under that order will not be transferred to the CAA until it comes into force, which I believe will be later in July, but, of course, practical preparations have already been made at the CAA.
On the question from the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, about whether UK licences reflect similar licences in other countries with similar space industries—absolutely. These regulations have been developed alongside a careful examination of international licensing regimes all over the world, including New Zealand, so that we make sure we are as up to date as, and hopefully even more up to date than, the competitors. I have already mentioned that we expect the licensing process to begin very soon. We expect engagement from the operators with the CAA to make sure that the process is as smooth as possible.
Here comes my mea culpa of the day. I said in my opening remarks that it will take six to 12 months for an application to be processed. I misspoke: it is six to 18 months. The timeframe will depend on a number of factors, such as whether the mission is bespoke or novel, how mature and experienced the operators are and the nature and completeness of the information provided. So many things will make up these applications, so some will be simpler than others.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, also raised some queries regarding the costs, particularly relating to appeals. We are not expecting many appeals, if any, in the next few years. Those costs will be picked up with normal departmental allocations. I would like to reassure him that the whole appeals process has been developed alongside representation from the space industry, as indeed have all these statutory instruments. I assure all noble Lords that we had a detailed and lengthy conversation with the industry and undertook a formal consultation as well. Noble Lords will also be interested to know that we recently published the outcome of the consultation into the draft environmental objectives—something that I know is important to all of your Lordships.
I suspect I will probably write in more detail on insurance and liabilities, because this issue was subject to a lot of consideration over the passage of the Bill and as we built up to these regulations. Absolutely key to the Government is that we want to tailor the insurance required to the risk and diverse range of UK launch activities expected. The Government have committed to carrying out a review of liabilities and insurance in 2021. This will include the issues raised by respondents in the consultation. Work is under way, and more information will be available in due course.
On accidents, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked why the accident investigation SI had not been introduced as primary legislation. We feel that it is appropriate. When noble Lords discussed the Space Industry Act in 2018, it was very much presented as a framework Bill. We knew that the regulations coming out of that would potentially be complex, and the House was happy with that at the time. Although it is a new industry, of course, as a nation we are very good at accident investigation.
I fear I am slightly running out of time, so I just want to make sure I have covered the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, about planning permissions and other consents. The CAA will provide the operating licence, but many other consents, considerations and planning permissions, et cetera, will be needed. Therefore, to have a successful spaceport, operators will need to work with the local authority to make sure that everything is done to protect the environment and the local community. It will be really critical that they have the support of the local community. I fear that the Chair has started the countdown to lift-off, so I commend these instruments.
Space Industry Regulations 2021
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
That the Grand Committee do consider the Space Industry Regulations 2021.
Relevant document: 4th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee
Spaceflight Activities (Investigation of Spaceflight Accidents) Regulations 2021
Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
That the Grand Committee do consider the Spaceflight Activities (Investigation of Spaceflight Accidents) Regulations 2021.
Relevant document: 4th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee
Contracting Out (Functions in Relation to Space) Order 2021
Baroness Vere of Norbiton Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Baroness Vere of Norbiton
That the Grand Committee do consider the Contracting Out (Functions in Relation to Space) Order 2021.
North of England: Rapid Mass Transport System
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Lord Moylan
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to the construction of an underground Maglev rapid mass transport system between cities in the north of England.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)
My Lords, the Government have thoroughly investigated whether our forthcoming major investment in connectivity between northern cities should be maglev rather than rail. We concluded that rail remains the best option for a number of reasons, the most important being that new conventional rail infrastructure can better be integrated into the existing network.
Lord Moylan (Con)
My Lords, maglev is a great British invention increasingly deployed in Asia for high-speed travel. As our world-beating British tunnelling engineers have shown, constructing railways in-tunnel can be cheaper than constructing them on the surface, provided that it stays in-tunnel. However, it seems that every proposal for maglev that comes from the Department for Transport is rebuffed. Can my noble friend explain why her department is so wedded to a 200 year-old technology that, when constructed on the surface, can both cost more and be very annoying for local voters?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I am sure all noble Lords will agree that, just because something is old, that does not mean it is useless. We must look at all technologies, and that is precisely what we do. My noble friend makes an important point in saying that systems around the world use this, but just one operational high-speed system does so at the moment: the Shanghai City maglev. There are many others operating at lower speeds—that is, less than 100 mph—and obviously, there is one in construction in Japan, but it is coming up against some cost pressures.
Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)
Will the Minister give a clear commitment on behalf of the Government to Northern Powerhouse Rail as part of the integrated rail plan?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I can reassure the noble Lord that the Government are considering all options as part of the integrated rail plan and of course, Northern Powerhouse Rail is a very important part of that. Once the IRP is published, Transport for the North will submit a business case consistent with policy and the funding framework.
Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con) [V]
My noble friend’s idea of an underground magnetic railway between northern cities certainly has a strong attraction, especially following Elon Musk’s proposal for 1,000 mph trains in the United States, and especially coming from a former deputy chair of Transport for London. However, as Transport for the North has said, our aims in the north should be to improve the frequency, capacity, speed and resilience of our transport system. Can my noble friend go a little further in telling us, in a realistic way, how the Government intend to facilitate those aims in the near future?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
The Government are working extremely hard on setting out plans as to how we will improve connectivity in the north. As I mentioned previously, the integrated rail plan will be published soon and will bring together the benefits of not just High Speed 2 but Northern Powerhouse Rail and other very significant projects across the north. Of course, our investment in traditional rail and upgrading and improving our current lines also continues.
Lord Beith (LD) [V]
My Lords, what the north-east needs is not an underground line but investment in the East Coast Main Line, which, according to LNER, does not have the capacity even to accommodate the service that it provided up to 2019. How can it be consistent with government policy to halve the daytime service from Berwick-upon-Tweed to London and the major cities, reducing it to a two-hour gap between trains with a longer journey time? This is the railway going backwards, is it not?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I accept that there are capacity constraints on the East Coast Main Line, which is why we are investing more than £1.2 billion to upgrade it. On 11 June, LNER launched a consultation on the new proposed timetable for the East Coast Main Line from May 2022. I encourage all noble Lords who have an interest in the East Coast Main Line to respond to it.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, if it is concluded that what we really need is a strategic rail link between not just Leeds and Manchester but Middlesbrough and Liverpool and all major towns in between to improve connectivity and boost productivity, how likely is that to happen and how much money will the Government allocate to it?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I can reassure my noble friend that we are of course looking at connectivity across the regions. A number of urban centres need to be connected, and it is really important that we make sure that towns and villages are connected via local transport to those point-to-point systems.
Lord Birt (CB) [V]
My Lords, I have long been a supporter of improving our strategic rail network, but I now wonder whether we face a mid to long-term future in which electric vehicles incorporating artificial intelligence within intelligent connected road networks will become the de facto mode of speedy, seamless door-to-door travel. Is the Department for Transport contemplating and investigating this possibility?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My Lords, I suspect that it will not be an either/or situation in the future, as indeed it is not now. We are actively considering opportunities for automation and AI. We want to see the safe development and deployment of self-driving vehicles. The Government have the Centre for Connected and Autonomous Vehicles, which is looking at developing regulations, investing in innovation and skills and engaging with the public, because it is important that we take them with us.
Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)
My Lords, it still strikes me as ironic that, although the UK invented maglev, Asia has made far greater and more imaginative use of this high-speed technology. I worry about us being too risk-averse in refusing to keep it on the table. Can I press the Minister perhaps less on the sci-fi possibilities of innovative technology solutions—although I do find them exciting—and more on the concrete plans to bring about high-speed connectivity between northern cities, which is crucial for levelling up? Can the Minister assure us that urgency and speed will be deployed rather than emulating HS2, which has to be the slowest high-speed project in the world? Surely the cost challenges of maglev in Japan are not worse than those of HS2 here.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I, too, am extremely excited by technology. The noble Baroness said that there has been widespread take-up of maglev technology across Asia, but that is not the case. The high-speed system is up and running in Shanghai at the moment, but China has now decided to invest in conventional rail rather than rolling out a large number of high-speed maglev systems. As I have mentioned many times, the Government are considering connectivity across the north and this will be set out in the integrated rail plan.
Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]
Can the Minister confirm in the light of her earlier answers that the Government do not know when the Northern Powerhouse Rail project, first promised by the then Chancellor of the Exchequer in 2014, will be approved, when its route plan will be made clear or when its promised infrastructure work will actually start? Assuming that is so—I think the Minister has been telling us that—can she at least assure us that work on the construction of Northern Powerhouse Rail will take priority over the start of work on the Prime Minister’s latest project: the construction of a new royal yacht?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I think that that is a rather extreme assessment of what I have said so far. I reiterate that the integrated rail plan must come first. Without it, it is pointless having a plan for Northern Powerhouse Rail because, of course, the whole point is that everything has to be integrated. As I said previously, we will work with Transport for the North, which will submit the business case for Northern Powerhouse Rail. Once we have received that, we will be able to set out how the project will go forward.
Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]
Does the Minister acknowledge that continued speculation about the future of Northern Powerhouse Rail and the issuing of new timetables by the East Coast Main Line, which reduced rail links for northern cities, simply serves to undermine confidence in government promises to level up and therefore reduces the likelihood of private sector investment in northern cities?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
The absolute priority for this Government is to get it right. Endless amounts of pressure—questions such as “When will it be published?”—is probably not particularly helpful and leads to an awful lot of speculation. As I have said previously, we are taking due consideration of what stakeholders are saying and we are working very hard to come up with a robust, deliverable plan. That is exactly what this Government are going to do.
Lord Berkeley (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister is right about the Shanghai maglev, which I have been on. It is very fast and very noisy, but the technology, and therefore the costs, are very tight, because the track has to be kept within plus or minus half a millimetre in both directions, vertical and horizontal. She is absolutely right to reject it and I hope that the Government stick to their promises.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
Now we are all very jealous—I too would love to go on that maglev. The noble Lord makes an important point: it is not just about the cost of infrastructure, but of operation, because it has a very high electricity consumption and can therefore be more costly to operate. I know that the Japanese system will be using superconducting electromagnetics, which should be cheaper but, although maglev has some great applications, it is not applicable everywhere.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. We now come to the fourth Oral Question.
Great British Railway Plans
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Lord Berkeley
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to integrate (1) HS2, and (2) the East West Rail project, into their Great British Railway plan.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)
My Lords, HS2 Ltd and East West Rail Ltd are currently separate from Network Rail and are delivering important additions to our rail network. The Williams-Shapps Plan for Rail is clear that they will retain their current roles and work closely with Great British Railways as it takes over responsibilities for integration.
Lord Berkeley (Lab) [V]
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that clarification, but it seems that the statement in the Williams report that it will bring together the rail
“network under single national leadership”
is not correct. The report also states that there will be “a new focus” to deal with
“escalations in cost, gold-plating and over-specification”,
which clearly applies mainly to HS2 as the worst offender. Can the Minister explain why there are plans to remove funding from Northern Powerhouse Rail and give it to the bottomless pit of HS2?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My Lords, there are no such plans. In reference to the noble Lord’s statements about HS2 and East West Rail being separate infrastructure managers, I say that there are 13 different infrastructure managers already on the rail network. GBR will obviously work closely with them, as indeed it will have to with Transport for Wales and ScotRail. GBR will be set up to collaborate; that is what we want to see it doing.
Lord Snape (Lab) [V]
My Lords, bearing in mind that the recently issued White Paper stressed the importance of a “guiding mind” so far as the railway industry is concerned in future, is it not completely illogical to leave out HS2 and East West Rail, its two major construction projects? Surely there will be considerable involvement in both projects. Does the Minister not remember John Junor’s famous phrase in the Sunday Express: “Who is in charge of the clattering train?”
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
Sadly, I do not remember that from the Express. One of the words that the noble Lord said was absolutely critical: “construction”. HS2 and East West Rail are indeed both in construction at the moment and will be for some time. There is therefore ample time as both become operational railways for them to collaborate with GBR to ensure that all their services interlink.
Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Con)
My Lords, what is the place of Scotland in this Great British Railways plan?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
There is a place for Scotland in Great Britain. The Scottish Government will continue to exercise their current powers and to be democratically accountable for them. Great British Railways will continue to own the infrastructure in Scotland, as Network Rail does now. The Government will of course explore options with Transport Scotland to enable the railway in Scotland to benefit from the reforms on the wider network of Great Britain.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
If HS2 is to be managed separately, can the Government guarantee that any of its cost overruns, whether in construction or operation, will not see a bailout from wider rail network funds and that it will be responsible for its own overruns?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I think the noble Baroness has just answered her own question: she stated that HS2 would be separate from Great British Railways. That is the case but in any event, as she pointed out, HS2 is under construction. It will be a while before it is an operating railway and then it will work closely with GBR.
Baroness Randerson (LD)
My Lords, the Williams-Shapps report promises welcome expansion and better co-ordination of the railways. The Government also say that they are committed to levelling up the north, so can the Minister explain to us why the proposed new timetable for the east coast main line halves the number of trains from Newcastle to Manchester via Durham and Darlington? It also cuts one-third of the trains to London from Berwick and Darlington. In what sense is this expansion and levelling up?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
As it happens, I had a conversation yesterday with all the northern leaders when we met as the northern transport acceleration council. They raised this issue, which is of course one of capacity because there are more services, for example, between Newcastle and London. We have heard the pleas from various areas of the north on the timetabling. We are taking that away and doing what we can, but this is one of the reasons why we need Great British Railways. Timetabling is fiendishly complicated and we need to ensure that local areas are heard and get the services they deserve.
Lord Moylan (Con)
My Lords, will my noble friend take this opportunity to rebut the current rumours that Northern Powerhouse Rail is going to be scrapped?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My noble friend should not read too much into media reports on the front page of—I think it was—the Yorkshire Post. The Government continue to consider all options for Northern Powerhouse Rail as part of the integrated rail plan. Once that plan is published, we will work with Transport for the North to finalise a business case for Northern Powerhouse Rail. This will need to be consistent with the IRP’s policy and the funding framework.
Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the East West Rail link, certainly between Oxford and Bletchley, needs to be electrified from the outset because of the heavy freight traffic from Southampton to the west coast main line passing through Bletchley? It would be a crying shame if electrification were postponed until after the passenger service started.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
The case for electrification of East West Rail is being considered. A review is being undertaken by EWR Co, looking at all the options, including full electrification along the whole route as well as the various options for partial electrification, including battery-electric hybrid rolling stock.
Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con) [V]
My Lords, what proportion of the existing railway will be used in the building of this east-west extension? What is the latest estimate of the overall cost?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
I am grateful to my noble friend for advance notice of this question, because I too had to get my head around how the existing track and the new track all work together. There are three connection stages. The first one will rely on existing track, which will be upgraded, and the second two will be either small sections of existing track or mostly new track. The cost of connection stage 1 is currently £1.288 billion. We do not know the cost of future connection stages at this time, as of course the new track has not yet been fully scoped.
Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]
My Lords, assuming that the Northern Powerhouse Rail project, HS3, is not going to be scrapped—some parts of the media have suggested that it will be—will the Minister confirm that HS3 will be part of the integrated railway and Great British Railways, in the same way as other private companies are contracted to run the trains for the service and fares that Great British Railways sets?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
Goodness—I think we are a little early in the game to be discussing those sorts of arrangements, but I have answered the question about Northern Powerhouse Rail. The integrated rail plan will be published soon.
Lord Herbert of South Downs (Con)
My Lords, is it not time to slay the urban myth that HS2 will not significantly cut travel times? The London to Birmingham travel time will be reduced by a third, or 30 minutes; the London to Manchester time will be halved to only around an hour. In Japan, growth is much more evenly distributed between the cities because of the Shinkansens; they are not content with existing speeds, but are building new lines. Is that not the global standard to which we need to aspire?
Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)
My noble friend is quite right but HS2 is not just about speed, as I so often need to say in your Lordships’ House. As he mentions, it is about bringing our regions closer together and delivering the capacity that our transport network absolutely needs. HS2 will give us a step change in capacity, while almost halving the time it takes to travel between our largest cities. If we were to do that by refreshing our existing railways, it would cause decades of inconvenience and disruption to passengers.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.