Oral Answers to Questions

Al Carns Excerpts

Monday 24th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Tom Gordon (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (LD)]

19. What steps he is taking to ensure that veterans receive adequate support after leaving the armed forces.

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

I have always said that we train people to join the military and to be in the military, but we do not necessarily train them to be a civilian after they leave. That is why this Government have taken swift action to support veterans upon leaving. Last month I launched Operation Ascend, which will help veterans thrive into post-service careers. Our hugely successful career transition partnership has now seen 88% of all veterans leaving straight into employment since October. We have extended national insurance contributions relief from April 2026 for employers who recruit veterans. On top of that, this Government have awarded £3.7 million in veterans housing grants. I am a firm believer that over the past 14 years we did not take enough responsibility for supporting our veterans, and plans that we will unveil in the future will take a step in the right direction to improving that.

[Calum Miller (Bicester and Woodstock) (LD)]

I recently visited the Heyford and Bicester veterans group in my constituency, which was set up by Ian Ridley to support fellow veterans throughout the region. This fantastic initiative brings together a range of services from charities, the NHS and local authorities to support veterans. However, when speaking to Ian, I was amazed to discover that the group receives no funding from the MOD, and that veterans in our region are not signposted to its services when they leave the armed forces. I therefore invite the Minister to visit the group with me and see the work that it does, so that we can discuss how to make it more routine for services such as those that it offers to be made available to our fantastic veterans.

[Al Carns]

I thank all the people, most of whom are probably volunteers, who are supporting veterans in the hon. Member’s constituency. Two days ago I visited another tri-service veterans hub that is delivering, I think, exactly the same types of services. We often find that while there is a great deal support out there, it is difficult for veterans to navigate the process of finding the right place, and we are working on plans to help them with that.

[Tom Gordon]

Harrogate is a proud armed forces town and the location of the Army Foundation College, and Menwith Hill and Catterick are nearby. North Yorkshire as a whole plays an important part for our armed forces. Veterans in my constituency have told me that they often move back there after postings throughout their careers, but they then have problems accessing housing through the local authority. What conversations is the Minister having with local government colleagues to ensure that local authorities have a better understanding of how to listen to what veterans say about the adaptations they need?

[Al Carns]

As the hon. Member knows very well, access to social and affordable housing is a severe problem across the country. We work with many councils, explaining to them the covenant as a whole and the need for veterans to be fast-tracked. Op Fortitude is a prime example: there have been 3,000 referrals, and 825 veterans have been put into housing in a relatively short time. I would like to connect the hon. Member with that operation to ensure that we can point any veterans who need such support in the right direction.

[Catherine Atkinson (Derby North) (Lab)]

I visited Richard, a veteran, in his home, provided by the Derventio Housing Trust. The trust, based in Derby, offers homes for people without them, including those who have served in our armed forces. Volunteers from Derventio recently renovated a house in the city specifically for veterans. Does the Minister agree that such support is vital, and will he tell us what the Government are doing to help with the provision of housing, care and support for our veterans in need?

[Al Carns]

I congratulate the individuals in that trust on supporting the veterans in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I have visited many different parts of the UK and observed the phenomenal volunteer support that veterans often have to rely on. We want to establish a structure that will focus that support and also direct veterans to the help that they need more quickly and effectively, and we will unveil our plans in due course.

[Lola McEvoy (Darlington) (Lab)]

Will the Minister meet me, and other members of the all-party parliamentary group for the armed forces, to discuss rolling out the best practice of some fire authorities to give those who have served our country automatic interviews for relevant roles in the public sector? It is a brilliant idea that would really benefit my constituents, and I think that all those who have gone above and beyond to serve our country should be served by all of us upon their return.

[Al Carns]

That is a great initiative. Service beyond service is something that we should be promoting, and I will take that as best practice, have a look at it and see whether we can roll it out across the nation, so that when people leave the military they can secure at least a first interview for a role in the fire service, the police, the NHS or any other public services.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)]

Veterans who served in Northern Ireland will no doubt welcome the Veterans Minister’s decision—first suggested by the shadow Defence Secretary—that the MOD should judicially review the recent coroner’s verdict regarding the shooting of several IRA terrorists at Clonoe. Well done, I say, but why not go further to protect veterans, and drop the plans to revoke large parts of the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023, which would only serve to facilitate yet more inquests of this type?

[Al Carns]

The right hon. Member makes an important point. Having visited Northern Ireland just two weeks ago, I share the concerns of many veterans who have served in Northern Ireland, particularly concerns about the misinterpretation of the challenging context in which many of these inquests and inquiries are taking place. I remind Members on both sides of the House that not so long ago, in the ’70s, ’80s and ’90s, there were major explosions in every major city in the United Kingdom and assassinations across the UK. Killings were a regular event in Northern Ireland, and we sent our service personnel there to protect peace, save lives and, indeed, prevent a civil war.

[Mr Francois]

The Minister mentioned both sides of the House. Revoking the legacy Act would encourage a system of two-tier justice—one for our Army veterans and another for alleged IRA terrorists, including those given so-called letters of comfort by the Blair regime. With many of those veterans having served in proud regiments that traditionally recruited from red wall northern constituencies, why should a Labour Government assist Gerry Adams to sue the British taxpayer? How is that supporting those who served their country valiantly on Operation Banner?

[Al Carns]

Let us be absolutely clear: the right hon. Gentleman is looking at an individual who served his country on Operation Banner, so I understand the issues for all our veterans and I have been working very hard with the Northern Ireland Office to make sure that veterans’ welfare and legal services are provided, so that anyone involved in any of the investigations gets the support they require and that we can minimise the impact on what is quite a unique group of elderly veterans.

[Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)]

4. What steps he is taking to strengthen the UK’s defences against threats to undersea infrastructure.

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[Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)]

6. What steps he is taking to protect female members of the armed forces from sexual harassment.

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

Over the last 24 years, I have had the absolute privilege of working with amazing servicewomen across the armed forces, and also with women in the police, the NHS and, of course, our intelligence service. There is no place for unacceptable behaviours in defence—absolutely no place at all—and the women who choose to serve deserve better.

This Government are taking action. Just last week, I announced the launch of the long called for tri-service complaints unit, which will sit outside the chain of command. The single services will therefore not be able to, nor be perceived to be able to, mark their own homework. I am working across Government, in particular with the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones), and the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Yardley (Jess Phillips), on setting up a defence violence against women and girls taskforce. Just two weeks ago, I met the Women’s Network, and I have also sat on the Raising our Standards panel of those from across trade and other organisations, the purpose of which is to really criticise us and pull forward any lessons learned from broader society.

[Sarah Dyke]

I thank the Minister for his response, and for the work he has done. The 2024 armed forces continuous attitude survey reported that 13% of female personnel had experienced sexual harassment in service during the prior 12 months, and many women have said they would not report an incident due to fear of the consequences. The recently announced tri-service scheme is welcome, but what steps is he taking to make it genuinely independent to ensure women’s confidence in the scheme and their safety while serving in the armed forces?

[Al Carns]

There are two principal elements. The tri-service complaints system sits outside the chain of command, and when certain issues hit a threshold, they will be taken away from the single services, so the system will be completely independent. The second is the violence against women and girls taskforce that we have created, which will work directly to me. It will be a small team at my level, but it will have tentacles right down into the single services. It will provide a safe space for women to go to if they want to raise an issue or a complaint, which can then be transferred into the complaints system or, indeed, in parallel all the way up to me so that I can take action directly.

[Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister, and I welcome the measures announced last week. My constituents in Monmouthshire and people across Wales would be interested to hear more from the Minister about the new violence against women and girls taskforce, and the regional and national champions. How will they ensure that everyone who serves in the armed forces can do so in safety?

[Al Carns]

I refer my hon. Friend to my answer to the last question. The violence against women and girls taskforce is taking best practice from the rest of Government and ensuring that it is replicated in defence, but it is actually going one step further and putting a structure in place. As I always say, I was very young when I joined the Marines, and I was caught up in this hierarchical situation. Where do you go to make a complaint? You don’t actually have anywhere to go to make a complaint. The taskforce will provide a safe space, so that if people want to pop out of the chain of command to highlight a concern, it can be elevated quickly and dealt with rapidly.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)]

I welcome the creation of the violence against women and girls taskforce, which is an important step towards enabling complaints to be heard and addressed outside the chain of command, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Glastonbury and Somerton (Sarah Dyke) for raising this important issue. Like the taskforce, the Government have committed to a new veterans strategy focusing specifically on the experience of women who have left the service. Will the Minister outline the timescale for the development and implementation of that strategy, given how vital it is that women come and serve in the armed forces, and that they feel safe and secure in doing so?

[Al Carns]

As part of our future veterans strategy, a women veterans annexe will provide specific guidance on females wanting to leave the armed forces. It is also important to mention that we are not just setting up the violence against women and girls taskforce; we have the sexual harassment survey going out, the tri-service complaints system, the review of our zero-tolerance policy by a KC to move to 100% action, an international culture and behaviours conference to learn best lessons from our international partners, and the modernisation of our military appraisal system to ensure that people who get involved in unacceptable behaviour are tracked through the system so they can be held to account.

[Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst (Solihull West and Shirley) (Con)]

8. What discussions he has had with his NATO counterparts on increasing defence industrial capacity across the alliance.

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[Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)]

10. What steps he is taking to support defence personnel affected by domestic abuse.

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

As I mentioned earlier, we are moving forward with our women and girls taskforce to drive progress on the Government’s commitment to halve violence against women and girls in a decade. Last year, we launched the Ministry of Defence’s domestic abuse action plan and trained more than 700 service police in specialist domestic abuse and coercive control training, and now everybody in the military—every man and woman across the armed forces—goes through unacceptable sexual behaviour training.

[Josh Babarinde]

According to King’s College London, one in 10 of our armed forces personnel is a survivor of domestic abuse, but, because there is no specific offence of domestic abuse in the law, the Ministry of Justice has confirmed that it cannot comprehensively identify perpetrators, and cannot therefore comprehensively rehabilitate them and keep victims and survivors safe. Will the Minister join me and colleagues across the House in campaigning for a specific offence of domestic abuse in the law so that we can better protect our armed forces personnel from domestic abuse?

[Al Carns]

It is completely clear to me that any sort of domestic abuse in any way, shape or form in the armed forces is completely unacceptable. If we can help to address and track some of that through the armed forces, it will make it far easier to deal with and ensure rehabilitation. I will take this conversation on after these questions.

[Dr Al Pinkerton (Surrey Heath) (LD)]

11. If he will make an assessment of the potential impact of the pause in offensive cyber-operations against Russia by the US on security in Europe.

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[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

14. What steps his Department is taking to help prepare cadets for potential careers in the armed forces.

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

I have visited multiple cadet units all over the country and have been truly astounded at the social mobility that the cadets provides for a whole range of young people. We have over 140,000 cadets at the moment, supported by 26,000 volunteers. We are doing everything we can to look to expand those programmes over time and ensure that the opportunity is available for everybody, from every walk of life.

[Mark Garnier]

In my new role as the chair of the British Shooting Sports Council, I take a keen interest in cadet target rifle shooting. The Minister will be aware that the Ministry of Defence is proposing to withdraw from service the 7.62 cadet target rifle from 2026, and the .22 rifle just two years later. Aside from depriving cadets from the opportunity to learn the highly disciplined and valuable skills of firearms safety and use, the proposal calls into question the future of target rifle shooting in the UK. Will the Minister meet me and representatives of the shooting and target rifle community to discuss opportunities to reverse this decision?

[Al Carns]

I will happily come and talk through that in due course. I have been in the military for 24 years and have spent a lot of time shooting, and I can see its benefits.

[Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)]

15. What steps he is taking to ensure small and medium enterprises are able to participate in defence procurement contracts.

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[Zöe Franklin (Guildford) (LD)]

T4.   My constituent Sam serves in Afghanistan and suffers from PTSD. Although he is entitled to compensation, his condition has left him struggling with the forms and, 10 years on, he has been told that he can have only £600, when he is entitled to thousands. Can the Minister explain what steps are being taken to ensure that those who give so much serving our country are helped to access the financial assistance they are entitled to, and not blocked by bureaucracy?

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

That is a really valid question. We pay out more than £1.5 billion a year in compensation through the armed forces compensation scheme and the war pension scheme. If the hon. Member wants to write to me on that specific case, I can have a look into it. I also refer her to Op Courage, which is linked to mental health and has had 34,000 referrals to date.

[James Asser (West Ham and Beckton) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that expanding our military expenditure creates a golden opportunity to deal with the shortage of people going into science, technology and engineering jobs, and that as we expand the military budget, we should make sure that the defence industry expands the number of apprenticeships and builds a robust skills and training base so that young people can benefit from those jobs?

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[Andrew Pakes (Peterborough) (Lab)]

We are incredibly proud of our veterans in Peterborough. Will the Minister join me in recognising the work of Councillor Jason McNally, our armed forces champion, and his predecessor, Councillor John Fox, and tell us what more the Government can do to help them to support more people signing up to the armed forces covenant?

[Al Carns]

I thank my hon. Friend for highlighting two amazing individuals who I imagine are putting a huge number of hours into supporting the veterans community and the armed forces community. The covenant will come into law in 2026, and when it does, we need to ensure that those armed forces champions understand what it provides at local level and can harness its benefits for the whole of the armed forces.

[John Cooper (Dumfries and Galloway) (Con)]

T6.   The Hawk aircraft, most famous in the scarlet livery of the Red Arrows, is at the end of its service life. Can Ministers explain what steps they are taking to ensure that we replace it with a British-built sovereign capability?

[Claire Hazelgrove (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Lab)]

Those who bravely serve in our forces should never lose their say in our country’s future, so I welcome the Government’s swift action to introduce the ability to use the veterans ID card as voter ID. May I ask the Minister what plans there are to ensure that veterans around the country are aware of this important change?

[Al Carns]

The veterans ID card is a fantastic initiative that has now been rolled out for most veterans. We have thousands of applications a week and will continue to endeavour to ensure that they get delivered in the most timely and effective manner. Anybody who is interested in veterans’ welfare issues or the services available should go to the gov.uk website and type in “veterans support”, and there will be a plethora of different avenues for them to unlock.

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

T7.  Mid Norfolk is a proud rural and military constituency with many employees working at RAF Marham and Swanton Morley barracks, which is home to the Queen’s Dragoon Guards and many cadets and veterans. A few years ago, we managed to secure the extension of Swanton Morley barracks, which had been scheduled for closure. Does the welcome defence surge mean that its closure, slated for 2031, might be reviewed?

[Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)]

I have a number of nuclear veterans in my Na h-Eileanan an Iar constituency, as many colleagues do in their constituencies. What steps are Ministers taking to meet veterans, acknowledge their service and deal with the consequences of their service and their exposure to nuclear material?

[Al Carns]

I have met nuclear test veterans from two of the main charities, and I will continue to do so regularly to ensure that there is continuity of engagement. We have promised to do two things. One is a full and thorough review of the records—not a stovepiped look, but a whole review. That will take a bit of time, but we will do that in a thorough manner. The second is consistent engagement to ensure that people are informed of our progress.

[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

T8. President Macron has blocked British firms from the new EU defence fund. What are the Secretary of State’s views on this act of solidarity?

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[Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)]

Staff Sergeant Peter Cluff died in February 2016, with an in-service designation to that death. His widow, Kirsty, and his children, Meredith and Heather, were in the benefit of the armed forces pension scheme and remain so. However, the scheme made a miscalculation and have sent debt collectors to them to try to recover a fairly small sum. I asked about the matter three months ago and have not had a response from the Department. Will the Secretary of State or one of his Ministers meet me to discuss this unedifying advert for the Ministry of Defence?

[Al Carns]

That is a truly harrowing story. I will absolutely take that on, and we will meet straight after this and get it solved.

[Emma Foody (Cramlington and Killingworth) (Lab/Co-op)]

The recent report “A Dark Shadow” shone a light on the link between sexual assault and suicidal ideation in the military community. I was therefore pleased to see the announcement from the MOD last week about the removal of sexual harassment investigations from the chain of command—something for which campaigners and survivors have campaigned for such a long time. They are also keen to have reassurance, however. Will the Minister confirm that this is not a continuation of the previous Government’s failed efforts, but a step change in making the process truly independent?

[Al Carns]

This absolutely is a step change. A tri-service complaints system, removed from the single services, has been called for for a long time. We have taken decisive action to do that, and it will move things in the right direction. Combine that with the violence against women and girls taskforce, and we are double-tapping to ensure that we have the best support for women and, indeed, anyone else in the armed forces.

[Bobby Dean (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

Concerns have been growing over China’s aggression in the Indo-Pacific region. Given the strategic importance of the Taiwan strait to global security, what has been the Department’s response to those rising tensions?

[Jonathan Davies (Mid Derbyshire) (Lab)]

On Friday I was pleased to join colleagues from across the House to hear the Royal Marines band service in concert as part of the Mountbatten festival of music. May I invite the Government to reaffirm their commitment to the Royal Marines band service? It makes a huge contribution to defence diplomacy and combat operations.

[Al Carns]

That is a great question. The Royal Marine band service is the best band service in our armed forces, and it is absolutely safe under our watch. It provides a fantastic influence opportunity, as well as essential military services outside the musical profession.

[David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)]

The Defence Secretary should know that the whole House supports the Government’s actions to preserve peace in Ukraine, but that was not the point that the shadow Secretary of State was making. He was asking whether the Ministry of Defence recognises that it has a duty of care towards soldiers who fight for their country and then face decades of lawfare and the misuse of the European convention on human rights. Will the Ministry do something to protect those soldiers?