Royal Naval Deployment: Mediterranean

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence to make a statement on the announcement that the Royal Navy will join NATO forces in the interception and return of migrants and refugees in the Mediterranean.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

The scale of the migration challenge requires NATO, the European Union and other countries across Europe to work together to address both its symptoms—the constant flow of migrants and the conditions we see them face—and the causes in Syria and beyond. We must also work with local civilian authorities to tackle the gangs that profit from smuggling migrants.

The United Kingdom has already been engaged for several months, with the Home Office ship VOS Grace deployed in the region since November with a detachment of Border Force officers.

On 11 February, NATO Defence Ministers took the decision to deploy NATO ships, better to enable Turkish and Greek coastguards to intercept the migrant boats and disrupt the smugglers’ business model. Standing NATO maritime group 2 arrived in the region within 48 hours of that decision and has been conducting initial reconnaissance and surveillance of illegal crossings since then.

The NATO Secretary-General outlined in a statement yesterday evening that discussions between NATO, Turkey and Greece have agreed that NATO vessels can now operate in Greek and Turkish territorial waters.

We have, therefore, decided that the UK contribution is to send Royal Fleet Auxiliary Mounts Bay and a maritime Wildcat helicopter to the Aegean. Their roles will be to support the NATO monitoring and surveillance task. They will work alongside three Border Force boats: the VOS Grace, the cutter Protector, which is on its way to the region, and a further cutter, which is expected to start operations later this month. Together they will support the Turkish and Greek coastguards and the EU Frontex mission.

The Prime Minister is attending today’s EU-Turkey summit on migration. Contributing to the EU and NATO missions to counter smuggling is only part of the Government’s wider approach to tackling the root causes of irregular migration. The United Kingdom is leading the way in tackling those issues at their source, providing significant amounts of aid to assist in stabilising troubled regions and lessening the need for people to leave. In the meantime, the Royal Navy deployment is an important part of the international effort to assist the Turkish and Greek authorities in reducing this criminal and dangerous people trafficking.

[Mr Carmichael]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer and, in particular, for coming to the Chamber to make the statement. He describes a series of tactics, many of which will find broad support in this House, but it seems to me that, taken together, they do not add up to a strategy. Today’s press refers to a “war against people traffickers”. If we are to win that war, we need to cut off from the people traffickers the supply of those who are desperate enough to pay to use them. Of course, in the longer term that means getting peace in their countries of origin, but in the short to medium term, surely it means a series of safe and legal routes into Europe, the expansion of the refugee family scheme and the introduction of humanitarian visas.

What will happen to those seeking refuge who are intercepted in the Aegean? Will they be taken back to Turkey? Does that not run contrary to the principle of non-refoulement, which is at the centre of international refugee law?

What will be done to keep under review the widely questioned status of Turkey as a “safe country” to which people can be returned? Is the Defence Secretary aware of the reports from Human Rights Watch describing people being sent from Turkey back to Syria? What impact do the Government think that action will have on the flow of refugees elsewhere? The Secretary of State will, I am sure, be aware that last year 35,000 people came to Europe through Russia. What will be the impact on that land route if the sea route is to be closed down? What will that mean for the deployment of resources elsewhere in the Mediterranean, in particular assisting those travelling from Libya to Italy? The Secretary of State will be aware that the coastguard cutters were deployed on that route last year. Will they be available to help those who get into difficulty on that route, on which there have been many more deaths by drowning than there have been on the route through the Aegean sea?

If this is to be a war against people trafficking, I fear that, as with all wars, there will be innocent victims. The innocent victims, it seems to me, will be those who are desperate enough to undertake the journeys across the Aegean, across the land routes and across other parts of the Mediterranean. Will the Secretary of State assure me and the House that those people will be uppermost in the Government’s consideration?

[Michael Fallon]

There are, of course, already innocent victims of that people trafficking. Several hundred have drowned this winter, and several thousand drowned last year. It is in all our interests to reduce the number of people who attempt the dangerous crossing. The right hon. Gentleman is right that we have to work at cutting off the supply much further back. We have done that through our contribution to the reconstruction of Syria and our aid programmes in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and much further south in east and west Africa. On the creation of safe routes, I am not convinced that establishing some routes as safer than others will do anything to reduce the flow. On the contrary, we need to increase the capacity of, in particular, the Turkish authorities and the Turkish coastguard to intercept the boats before they set off on that very dangerous crossing.

The right hon. Gentleman asked me specifically about interception. The position is that if a boat in distress can be intercepted in Turkish waters by the Turkish authorities —perhaps alerted by the helicopters that are now deploying from the international force—there is a greater chance that the Turkish coastguard will be able to return that boat to the Turkish side. If such a boat is intercepted in international or Greek waters, it is more likely to be taken to one of the Greek reception points. So far as the effect on the alternative route that opened up last summer from Libya to Italy is concerned, HMS Enterprise is still on station in the Tyrrhenian sea and only yesterday rescued around 100 people. It is important to begin to establish a policy of return, so that there is less incentive for migrants to attempt those extremely dangerous crossings and less incentive for criminal gangs to make money out of their doing so.

[John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)]

If it is now established European Union and UK policy that illegal migrants should be returned, why are not the instructions to the personnel on our boats simply to take people back to where they have come from if they do not have legal papers or if they are not genuine asylum seekers?

[Michael Fallon]

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is in Brussels today discussing the entire issue of returns with European Union and other countries that are attending that meeting. It is unlikely that RFA Mounts Bay will be involved in rescuing people from boats in distress. Of course, the law of the sea places that obligation on her, but she will be further off the coast. It is more likely that a helicopter will be able to identify boats closer to shore in immediate distress that can be picked up by the Turkish or the Greek authorities and returned under their law.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I am sure that the thoughts and gratitude of the whole House are with the men and women aboard RFA Mounts Bay as they join the NATO deployment in the Aegean sea. Once again, the crisis demonstrates how the British armed forces play a crucial role, not only in securing our domestic security but in contributing to peace and stability across the world.

People trafficking is the world’s second largest form of organised crime, generating billions from the misery and suffering of some of the planet’s most desperate people. There is a real urgency not only to deterring and bringing to justice the people responsible, but also to deterring the victims from undertaking the perilous journey. Although we welcome the role that RFA Mounts Bay will play, it is a small contribution to a gigantic crisis. That may be a reminder of the fact that the Royal Navy’s surface fleet has been reduced by a sixth since 2010.

Does the Secretary of State feel that our naval resources are too stretched to play a larger role in this operation? Does he believe that, rather than protecting UK seas, the three Border Force vessels are in the Aegean because of the reduction in naval capacity caused by the 2010 strategic defence and security review? To that end, what more can he tell us about when the national shipbuilding strategy will report, and how quickly does he think the new class of lighter frigates to replace the Type 23s will be available to the Navy?

The fact that NATO has joined what was previously an EU role further demonstrates the extent to which our role in the EU enhances our global security. Does the Secretary of State agree with the Prime Minister that leaving the EU may bring refugee camps to the streets of Britain, and what more can he tell us about the ways in which he believes the EU helps us to keep Britons safe?

Once again, we salute British servicemen and women who are making the world safer and fairer. The Government must make sure that we have a strategy in place to ensure that—in the air, at sea and on the land—Britain can always answer the call.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Fallon]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments. Let me reciprocate by sending our good wishes to Captain Taylor and the crew of Mounts Bay, the 200 Royal Marines embarked on her and the helicopter squadron accompanying her.

So far as sufficiency is concerned, there are five NATO ships on station at the moment—a German ship, which is the flagship of the group, a Greek ship, a Canadian ship, an Italian ship and a Turkish ship—and ours makes that six ships spread out across the Aegean. Of course, there are 22 other members of NATO, and I hope that they will consider what contribution they can make. Mounts Bay is a substantial ship and, with a helicopter platform, it can contribute significantly to the surveillance, particularly of the middle part of the Aegean. We envisage that Mounts Bay will operate mainly in waters just west of Chios.

In so far as the shipbuilding strategy is relevant, we are developing the strategy in the light of the SDSR, as the hon. Gentleman knows, and we hope to complete it later this year. On his attempt to bring NATO and European Union membership into this, let me make this clear to him: the mission in the sea between Libya and Italy is a European Union mission, because in dealing with the new Libyan Government, it may need the legal authorities that the European Union can add; the group deployed in the Aegean is a NATO mission, because it of course involves a ship of the Turkish navy and is largely dealing with migrants from Turkey, which is a member of NATO. That perfectly illustrates that we need to be members of both NATO and the European Union, and that being members of both gives us the best of both worlds.

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and, indeed, the Royal Navy for its commitment to this mission, which demonstrates that we have an important role to play in European defence and security. By making it clear that this is a NATO mission, he underlines the point that NATO provides the security of our continent, not the European Union, as the Government seek to pretend.

[Michael Fallon]

This is a NATO mission—it was proposed by Germany, which is leading this particular standing maritime group—but the equally important mission in the Tyrrhenian sea, between Sicily and Libya, is a European Union mission. There are other examples of European Union missions—in Bosnia, and off the horn of Africa—that have been equally effective in saving lives.

[Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

We welcome the decision by the UK Government to join NATO in trying to tackle the truly awful levels of human trafficking in the Mediterranean. However, we believe that this has to be a two-pronged approach—one that involves stopping the trafficking, but also involves rescuing and resettling the refugees. May I put on the record my thanks to the people of Bute in my constituency, who have shown such support and compassion to the refugees who have arrived in their community, and may I pay tribute to the Scottish Government, who have given our refugees the best possible chance to integrate as fully as possible? As the crisis worsens, the need for the UK Government to commit to take 3,000 unaccompanied vulnerable and displaced children becomes an ever more urgent priority. Further to that and looking at the bigger picture, when will the Secretary of State update the House, as he promised he would do, on the Government’s military strategy in Syria?

[Michael Fallon]

On the first point, I welcome the contribution Scotland is making. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will want to know that some of the Royal Marines on board Mounts Bay are from Arbroath on the east coast of Scotland. I am glad that he welcomes the mission.

On refugees, the hon. Gentleman will know that we have committed to take refugees from the camps in Syria and to take unaccompanied children that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees identifies further west in Europe. We have played a leading part in that, as we did in the reconstruction conference on the future of Syria.

So far as military operations in Syria are concerned, we regularly update the information on the Ministry of Defence website. I am very happy to answer any additional questions the hon. Gentleman has.[Official Report, 9 March 2016, Vol. 607, c. 4MC.]

[Heidi Allen (South Cambridgeshire) (Con)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement and the role of the Navy. Many hands do, indeed, make light work. Forgive me for being over-simplistic, but I would like to understand whether our latest offering is purely about moving bodies back to coastlines, or whether it integrates somehow with the resettlement of refugees and the chaos that our European neighbours find themselves in.

[Michael Fallon]

The primary purpose of the mission is to provide monitoring, surveillance and reconnaissance of the migration route across the Aegean, which will better enable the Turkish and Greek coastguards to intercept the boats and disrupt the business model of the criminal traffickers. When they can intercept the boats in either Turkish or Greek waters, they are better able to rescue those on board before they get too far out to sea in the more dangerous areas.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

Obviously, preventing people from risking their lives by making such a dangerous journey is the right thing for the EU and NATO to try to do. However, 13,000 people who have already arrived in Greece are at the Macedonian border in terrible wet, damp and cold conditions, including children with bronchitis. The Secretary of State has said that the British Government will not take any of them. Where does he think those 13,000 people should go?

[Michael Fallon]

The British Government are taking refugees from Syria, as we have made clear, and some of them have arrived here in the United Kingdom. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is urging his European counterparts to get to grips with the problem of those who have arrived inside the Schengen area and to take steps to ensure that they are not shuttled from one fence to the next. Europe has to adopt a more sensible policy.[Official Report, 9 March 2016, Vol. 607, c. 4MC.]

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

May I ask my right hon. Friend about the rules for interception? For instance, what would happen if the people on these makeshift craft refused to get on board a royal naval vessel or, indeed, if the people traffickers opened fire on our sailors or marines?

[Michael Fallon]

It was certainly our experience last year that migrants in boats that were sinking or in distress very much welcomed the presence of the Royal Navy and were very eager to get on board the ships that we had deployed, because they knew that they would be safe. The traffickers appear to take very great care not to be on the vessels and have them launched by those who are being smuggled. Where they can be identified—this is where the monitoring and surveillance can assist—they can be charged and prosecuted, as they are being in parts of Turkey.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I welcome this deployment. As the Secretary of State knows, 1 million migrants entered the EU last year, 885,000 of them through Greece. Last week, Europol told us that 90% of those who have entered have come as a result of assistance from criminal gangs. We are in this place because of the failure of the EU, and in particular Frontex, to deal properly with those gangs, and there has been no alternative to the business model that the traffickers are adopting. Does he agree that Turkey is the critical country, and the issue is to stop the boats leaving in the first place? Key to that is giving Turkey the resources that the EU promised—€3 billion—to get it to assist with this difficult problem.

[Michael Fallon]

I agree with almost all that. It is important that the European Union follows through on its commitment of financial help for Turkey, and we must build up the capacity of the Turkish coastguard. I hope that this deployment will build up a picture of the information and intelligence that the Turkish coastguard needs, so that it can start to intercept vessels before they leave Turkish waters. Those vessels can then be returned to Turkey, and that will be the clearest possible signal to people who are paying large sums of money that the journey will be futile, and they will be discouraged from making it.

[Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that Turkey is doing enough at the moment to help? Tens of thousands of plastic dinghies are being imported by Turkey from China to allow this trade to continue, and similarly, phoney lifejackets are being sold in Izmir. Why are the Turkish Government not doing something about that?

[Michael Fallon]

Of course the Turkish Government can do more, but so can other Governments, such as the Greek Government. There is a lack of capacity in both Greece and Turkey to deal with what is now migration on a substantial scale. We all need to help, and the European Union must get a grip of its migration policy. Turkey will need help, but it must also be more robust in dealing with migration routes. This Government have decided that we too, with the largest Navy in Europe, ought to help where we can.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I welcome this deployment and wish RFA Mounts Bay and her crew all the best. What is the legal status of immigrants if they are picked up by Mounts Bay, and particularly if they claim asylum? We faced that issue when we were in office and there were operations off the coast of Somalia.

[Michael Fallon]

The legal position is that people cannot claim asylum on board Mounts Bay if it is not in UK territorial waters, so that is not as easy as the hon. Gentleman might think. We are working with other Governments to develop a policy that will ensure that those who are picked up in international waters can be returned to Turkey. At present, those who are picked up in Turkish waters by the Turkish coastguard can be taken back to Turkey, but as I have said, if they are picked up in Greek or international waters—the boundary there is complex and indeed disputed around the islands of the eastern Aegean—at the moment they will be taken to a place of safety in Greece.

[Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con)]

Given that this is an extremely lucrative trade for people smugglers and that, as the Minister says, Turkey does not have the capacity to do this on its own, how can we be sure that this is not a revolving door involving migrants who are being taken back to Turkey, allowed to stay there a while, and then get back on boats again to try their luck several times?

[Michael Fallon]

The best assurance that I can give my hon. Friend is that we are determined to try to help Turkey to break that business model, by ensuring that those who smuggle and send women or unaccompanied children on insecure boats for what may be a short but still a very dangerous sea crossing, can be identified, charged and prosecuted through the Turkish courts, so that we eventually discourage the flow from the beginning.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

From Mare Nostrum in 2014, which we failed to finance properly, to the Frontex operations, there is a singular lack of strategy and sense of urgency. The deployment of Mounts Bay was actually announced two months ago, and I am not really clear on what it is doing that had not already been previously announced. On a very specific point, may I invite the Secretary of State to put in writing his understanding of the legal position of anybody picked up by Mounts Bay? Frankly, my understanding is closer to that of my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) than it is to the position the Secretary of State has just enunciated.

[Michael Fallon]

The deployment of Mounts Bay was announced late last night following the agreement reached between NATO, Greece and Turkey by the Secretary-General, so the right hon. Lady is not right on that. It is not the aim of Mounts Bay to pick up large numbers of migrants—she will be further offshore than that. As I say, the objective is for her to be able to deploy her helicopter, help the rest of the NATO standing group, the Turkish and Greek coastguards and the Frontex operation to build up a proper picture of where migrants are setting off from and to help them to be intercepted before they get into international waters. I am very happy to write to her about the legal point she raises.

[Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)]

When I visited the points of embarkation and arrival, I spoke to migrants and refugees. I found them to be extremely well informed and responsive to clear signals when Governments actually give them. The migrants I spoke to were under the very strong impression that they were extremely unlikely to be turned around in the Mediterranean and returned to Turkey. On the experience of the migrants I spoke to, my right hon. Friend would surely agree it is essential that Europe is brave, intercepts as many crafts as possible and returns them to Turkey. News of that would be heard by migrants, refugees and the people smugglers, and they would take note of it. It is the only sure way to deter the trade.

[Michael Fallon]

I agree with my hon. Friend. Signals are picked up very quickly and very clearly by large numbers of young men further down the chain in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and, as we have seen on the Libyan coastline, further south in Africa itself. What has not happened so far is any policy of returns—nobody has actually been sent back. We need to start with those who are intercepted in Turkish waters and send them back to Turkey, so that we start to stem the flow.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

On Friday, I had the pleasure of meeting members of the Oasis Cardiff centre in my constituency and the Cardiff and Vale Sanctuary Support group. They do amazing work in supporting people who have made hazardous journeys in horrendous circumstances. I also met the UN humanitarian co-ordinator, the former Member for Eddisbury, who raised concerns about the widening instability in the Lake Chad region and across the Sahel, which is another driving factor in forcing people to make such hazardous journeys. Is the Secretary of State satisfied that enough global and regional attention is being applied to that instability and those conflicts, as well as to those in Syria and Iraq?

[Michael Fallon]

The hon. Gentleman is right. When I visited HMS Bulwark last summer just a few weeks after she had begun operations in the Mediterranean, she had already picked up some 20 to 25 different nationalities from east Africa and west Africa. That is why it is important to help to tackle this problem much further back at source, and to do what we can to stabilise the regions, grow their economies and give young men there every incentive to stay and build a life there rather than to set out on these very hazardous journeys. We are contributing substantially to development in Africa, both in the east and the west, and we have latterly announced new peacekeeping missions to South Sudan and to Somalia.

[Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury) (Con)]

I welcome this deployment. Does capability exist on the Royal Navy ship to gather evidence—in particular, on the seaworthiness of the boats—and statements from people who are picked up, so they can be used in future prosecutions to tackle the criminal gangs who traffic them?

[Michael Fallon]

Yes, Mounts Bay and our other units deployed there are well able to gather the information to which my hon. Friend refers. The key is that it be brought together and to the attention of the Turkish authorities so that they can start to bear down more heavily on these operations, nail the masterminds behind these criminal gangs, get them charged and prosecuted and start to reduce the flow.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

I appreciate that Mounts Bay will be on an observation and deterrence mission, but the chances are it will be involved in picking up migrants. What personnel will be there from the Home Office and what training will be given to staff in working with vulnerable, isolated children and vulnerable adults who might well be picked up but whom we do not want returned into the hands of people traffickers?

[Michael Fallon]

Those deployed on the Border Force cutters have that kind of training, but Mounts Bay is a much larger ship—16,000 tonnes—and will be operating in deeper waters to the west of Chios, so it is less likely, although not impossible, that it will be picking up large numbers of migrants; it is its helicopter that we hope will be identifying boats in distress, much closer to the shore, and working closely with the two respective coastguards.

[Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)]

EU Navfor concentrates on Somalian piracy but claims in its mandate to provide support to other EU missions. Will the Secretary of State explain why it has not been able to meet this tasking without NATO support and when he expects EU Navfor to expand to the point where it is capable of deploying British naval power without NATO?

[Michael Fallon]

Maritime standing group 2 operates in the eastern Mediterranean, and so is the logical group to deploy to the Aegean, and happens also to comprise a Greek and a Turkish ship, which is equally important when operating in Aegean waters, as well as a Canadian, a German and an Italian vessel. In this instance, therefore, the NATO group was ideally placed. As my hon. Friend says, however, EU Navfor, commanded from Northwood, is bearing down on piracy in the horn of Africa. It has been a very successful mission, and it is an EU mission because if we are to enable the pirates to be prosecuted in third countries, we need the legal instruments available to the EU that would not, for example, be available to NATO. That is another illustration of how it is useful to be members of both the EU and the alliance.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I welcome the Defence Secretary’s announcement. Does he foresee the need for an additional deployment of Royal Navy ships in the Mediterranean to assist those already there, including the two Border Force cutters? In respect of those two cutters, what assessment has been made of the impact on policing our own waters, which is obviously of equal importance to people living in the UK?

[Michael Fallon]

We will certainly keep our deployment under review. As I said, we have Mounts Bay now and the three Border Force cutters in the Aegean, as well as HMS Enterprise in the Tyrrhenian sea helping to police the route between Libya and Sicily. We can do that and still fulfil our other standing commitments, to which the hon. Gentleman might be referring, in both the Gulf and home waters. The Border Force cutters have the assistance of military personnel on board, supplementing the Border Force, and Royal Marines to add force protection.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Chancellor Merkel’s unilateral and ill-advised announcement that Germany’s borders were open and that everyone was welcome hugely compounded the migration problem by creating a huge pull factor. What assurances has my right hon. Friend had from the German Chancellor that she will not repeat that mistake, and what EU laws allowed her to make a decision in the first place that ultimately caused a lot of misery and cost an awful lot of lives?

[Michael Fallon]

The German Chancellor is in Brussels today, engaging with my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in a search for better control of migration policy. So far as the legal basis for what is happening inside Europe at the moment is concerned, it is of course the Schengen area, of which we are not part. We still retain control of our own borders, but that does not absolve us of the humanitarian responsibility to help where we can, and it does not absolve us as one of the larger countries in Europe from continuing to call on European countries to get some grip on the migration crisis.

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

With more refugees being sent back to Turkey, I must ask the Secretary of State again the questions posed by my right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael): what protection is in place for the refugees going back to Turkey to ensure that they will not be sent back to Syria; and is the Secretary of State confident that Turkey is a country to which refugees can be safely returned?

[Michael Fallon]

We certainly abide by our international obligations under the refugee convention, which means that we could not return any individual to a country where they might be in danger of persecution or inhuman treatment. That is why, as I said, those picked up in international waters or in Greek waters will not be returned to Turkey in the first instance. There are discussions going on with the Turkish Government to be sure that anyone who is returned to Turkey from outside Turkish waters can be dealt with safely.

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

In associating myself with the tributes paid to the Royal Navy, the Royal Marines and Border Force personnel, does the Secretary of State agree that it is not just they who we should thank, but their loved ones and families whom they leave at home and who want the separation to be as short as possible? What further support can we provide on the intelligence and policing front to go after the linchpins of these criminal gangs that prey on human weakness and people’s desperation?

[Michael Fallon]

My hon. Friend is right to draw the House’s attention to the hidden heroes—the families who stand behind our servicemen and women and who cannot know, of course, because it is the nature of service life, when unexpected deployments are likely to arise. Quite often, they will not know just how long they are expected to last. On my hon. Friend’s point about intelligence, there is increasing co-operation on counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing with the authorities in Turkey. Turkey itself has been subject to terrorist attacks from Daesh, and has every interest in co-operating with us.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend has fielded many questions on the terrible situation off the coast of Turkey in the Aegean, but it has also been pointed out that there is a migration challenge from north Africa across the Mediterranean. Will he say what steps the Italian naval forces and coastguard are taking to enhance their ability to intercept refugee boats?

[Michael Fallon]

My hon. Friend is right to draw our attention to the other route, which opened up significantly last summer and is beginning to open up again as the seas moderate. It is a longer route and a much more dangerous one. In answer to his specific point, the Italians are bearing the brunt of the naval effort south of Sicily. They have the most ships there and they are committed to continuing to develop the reception centres and the processing of the migrants that are rescued and taken to Sicily.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that this Royal Navy deployment shows the importance of the Type 26 global combat ship programme, not least because these frigates will have the flexibility to embark a Chinook, for example, and play a really important role in future humanitarian efforts—not least, of course, because David Brown Gear Systems in Lockwood in my constituency, which my right hon. Friend has visited, is in the supply chain?

[Michael Fallon]

I recall my visit to David Brown and seeing the gearing systems already being designed and produced. My hon. Friend is right about the usefulness of the forthcoming Type 26 frigates. What is important above all in this particular operation, of course, is the ability of the ship to carry a helicopter, and that is what Mounts Bay will bring. However, I note my hon. Friend’s point about the future development of the Type 26 design.

[Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)]

I recently spent a day at sea with HMS Portland as part of the armed forces parliamentary scheme to learn more about the crucial work of the Royal Navy and the excellent work of our armed forces. Will my right hon. Friend outline the work and the role of the Royal Navy to date in helping to tackle the migration crisis?

[Michael Fallon]

The Royal Navy has been engaged in the Libyan route. Last summer, HMS Bulwark was first on the scene, and it has rescued several thousand migrants, whom it has helped to be resettled in Italy. HMS Enterprise is on station there now, continuing that task, and she rescued about 100 migrants yesterday. As I said earlier, Mounts Bay is on station west of Chios in the Aegean. I imagine that it will not be too long before her helicopter is involved in physically saving lives, as the Royal Navy has already done and has done down the centuries.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

The Royal Navy deployment that was announced today will turn up the heat on the traffickers and help to keep migrants and asylum seekers safe. Does not our ability to take these steps, alongside our other commitments, underscore why it is right to increase defence spending for each year of this Parliament?

[Michael Fallon]

Yes, it does. The Royal Navy itself is the biggest beneficiary of the increase in defence spending that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced in his July Budget, and of which we gave more details in the strategic defence review. Defence expenditure will start to rise again in three weeks, for the first time for six years, and will continue to rise in every year of the current Parliament. That is because we are putting the public finances that we inherited in order, and because we are running a strong economy.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (SNP)]

Thousands of stranded refugees are currently in Idomeni, a small village on the Greek border with Macedonia, awaiting the decision at the EU summit that could determine their fate. It has just been reported that a young boy has been killed after being accidentally electrocuted at the camp. Does the Secretary of State accept that the human cost of this crisis is too high, and that it is clear that much more needs to be done to tackle the problem than simply deploying ships to the Aegean?

[Michael Fallon]

Lives have been lost already. Thousands drowned in the Mediterranean last year, and several hundred drowned this winter. However, I hope that the hon. Lady would not decry the contribution that we are making. The Royal Navy saved lives last year, and it will be saving lives this year through the operation that was announced today.

[Mr Speaker]

Let us hear from a cerebral inquisitor. Yes—Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his characteristic courtesy in coming to the House in person to answer the urgent question. Is this not a very interesting case study of the difference between the European Union and NATO? NATO manages to get on and save lives in a problematic situation for which the EU must take at least a large share of the blame, and which has been exacerbated by the consequences of Chancellor Merkel’s decision. While NATO is there, actively doing things, the best—the most mealy-mouthed meeting of murmurating Ministers—that can be provided by the European Union does nothing.

[Michael Fallon]

My hon. Friend’s views on this matter are fairly well known, and I have to tell him that, sadly, I do not entirely share them. To me it does not really matter, in the end, under whose auspices this mission is organised. The European Union mission is in the sea between Libya and Italy; this happens to be a NATO mission. What is most important, I think, is that the mission takes place and we become involved in saving lives, whatever the auspices under which the mission happens to be organised.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the fact that NATO has had to be called upon to protect the Greek border is further evidence that the European Union is incapable of securing its own borders? Does he also agree that people would be well advised to bear that in mind when they vote in the referendum on 23 June?

[Michael Fallon]

My hon. Friend and I might not agree on everything that people should have to bear in mind when it comes to the referendum. Both Greece and Turkey are members of NATO, and that is why I think that this mission has a greater chance of success under NATO’s auspices. I hope that other countries will join the mission and, despite what my hon. Friend the Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen) said earlier, I hope that there will be a successful outcome to the discussions in Brussels today and that the European Union will rise to the challenge of coping with what is a quite extraordinary migration crisis.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

Over the past few months, I have met marines and servicemen and women on the ships that have been involved in these rescues, and some of their tales have been absolutely heartbreaking. It is welcome that they are bringing their professionalism to this deployment. Does the Secretary of State agree that if we are to smash the business model that these criminal gangs profit from, it is vital to break the link between being smuggled to Europe in dangerous unseaworthy boats and being resettled?

[Michael Fallon]

I absolutely agree with that. There are clearly people smugglers in Turkey who are making huge amounts of money from this operation and have no care at all about whether those whom they push off in those unstable boats will make it safely to the Greek islands. The sooner we can start to disrupt that evil trade, the better.

Gifting of Land Rovers: Bulgaria

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Friday 4th March 2016 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

I have today laid before Parliament a Ministry of Defence departmental minute describing a gifting of Land Rovers that the UK intends to make to the Government of Bulgaria.

This gift meets a specific Bulgarian request for assistance to help patrol its borders.

The departmental minute describes a gift of 40 Land Rovers that are vitally needed and will provide immediate benefits. The gift comprises 40 Defender Tithonus Land Rovers totalling £443,000 including transportation by the civilian contractor. The cost will be borne by the Conflict Stability and Security Fund.

Subject to completion of the departmental minute process, delivery is expected to commence in May 2016.

[HCWS581]

Defence

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2016 Ministerial Corrections

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

What discussions has the Secretary of State or other members of the Government had with our allies inside and outside the middle east about extending military action, including airstrikes, to Libya?

[Michael Fallon]

There have not been discussions about extending airstrikes to Libya because at the moment there is no Government in Libya. We have been working to assist the formation of a new Government in Libya, and it is then for that Government to make clear what assistance they require. We are party to the Libyan international assistance mission, and we will see exactly what kind of support the new Government want—whether it is assistance with advice or training, or any other kind of support.

[Official Report, 29 February 2016, Vol. 606, c. 658.]

Letter of correction from Michael Fallon:

An error has been identified in the response I gave to the hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) during Questions to the Secretary of State for Defence.

The correct response should have been:

[Michael Fallon]

There have not been discussions about extending airstrikes to Libya because at the moment there is no Libyan Government Cabinet. We have been working to assist the formation of a new Government in Libya, and it is then for that Government to make clear what assistance they require. We are party to the Libyan international assistance mission, and we will see exactly what kind of support the new Government want—whether it is assistance with advice or training, or any other kind of support.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Monday 29th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Byron Davies (Gower) (Con)]

11. What recent discussions he has had with his international counterparts on progress in the campaign against Daesh.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

On 20 January, I attended the first Defence Ministers meeting in Paris, where we reviewed and agreed options for intensifying the military operation against Daesh in Iraq and Syria. On 11 February, I attended the full counter-Daesh ministerial in Brussels, where we agreed an accelerated campaign plan, including agreeing on the importance of the liberation of Mosul and Raqqa, and pressing Daesh from all sides.

[Rehman Chishti]

The international community had previously asked Arab countries to do more in the fight against Daesh. Having just returned from leading a parliamentary delegation to Saudi Arabia, I understand that the Saudi authorities are prepared to send ground troops into Syria to defeat Daesh but require air cover from their international partners. Will the United Kingdom and other international partners look at that request?

[Michael Fallon]

I welcome the contribution that co-operating Gulf states, including Saudi Arabia, which was present at the Daesh meeting in Brussels, are making to the fight against Daesh, and I welcome the Saudi redeployment of F-15 aircraft to the coalition air campaign. I have seen the reports my hon. Friend mentioned that Saudi Arabia is prepared to send troops to the fight in Syria. We will wait to see the details of any plan before commenting on what support the UK would provide as part of the global coalition.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Russian airstrikes are clearly targeting civilian populations in Syria, killing and maiming innocent men, women and children, as well as degrading the moderate Syrian forces that we are relying on to defeat Daesh in the region. Will the Secretary of State outline what actions we are taking now, and might take, to protect these populations and underpin our military strategy in the region?

[Michael Fallon]

I know that my hon. Friend will welcome the cessation of hostilities at the weekend. That appears largely to be holding for now, but it will succeed only if there is a major change of behaviour by the Syrian regime and by its principal backer, Russia. Russia must honour the agreement by ending attacks on Syrian civilians and moderate opposition groups and using its influence to ensure that the Syrian regime does the same. As for the second part of my hon. Friend’s question, there has been some progress in the past few weeks in reaching besieged areas. Some 60,000 people have recently been reached with aid through the United Nations food convoys.

[Byron Davies]

Continuing on the theme of the Russian bombing, what are my right hon. Friend and the Government doing to highlight Russia’s indiscriminate behaviour, and what contact has he had with the Russian authorities to end this outrage?

[Michael Fallon]

My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and I have been very clear and public that Russian actions have been undermining the prospects for ending the conflict in Syria. We welcome the Russian contribution to the most recent agreement that came into effect on Saturday. Russia can and should play a positive role in the fight against Daesh and in ending the conflict in Syria. I have to tell the House, however, that over 70% of Russian airstrikes have not been against Daesh at all but against civilians and moderate opposition groups in Syria—an appalling contribution to a conflict that must be ended.

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

What discussions has the Secretary of State or other members of the Government had with our allies inside and outside the middle east about extending military action, including airstrikes, to Libya?

[Michael Fallon]

There have not been discussions about extending airstrikes to Libya because at the moment there is no Government in Libya. We have been working to assist the formation of a new Government in Libya, and it is then for that Government to make clear what assistance they require. We are party to the Libyan international assistance mission, and we will see exactly what kind of support the new Government want—whether it is assistance with advice or training, or any other kind of support.[Official Report, 2 March 2016, Vol. 606, c. 6MC.]

[Ruth Smeeth (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

Last week in Iraq, members of the Defence Committee were informed of the full horror of Daesh, specifically in Ramadi. As it is forced out of territory, it leaves behind minefields of improvised explosive devices, including in people’s fridges and toilets, but there are no resources available to remove them. What conversations is the Defence Secretary having with partners to ensure that those resources are made available?

[Michael Fallon]

The hon. Lady is right to say that Daesh has been seeding with improvised explosive devices those towns and villages from which it has been expelled. The British contribution to the training effort of the Iraqi forces has focused on counter-IED training, which we are now supplying at all four of the building partner capacity centres. If there is more we can do to assist the Iraqi and Kurdish forces in that training, we will certainly do so.

[Ms Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

What support will the UK Government give to the United Nations, which is today giving fresh aid to Syria, and to the albeit very fragile ceasefire?

[Michael Fallon]

We have been making our contribution through the United Nations and we are ready to help do more. It is not easy for convoys to get through to some of the very hard-to-reach areas. Last week’s aid drop was not entirely successful; it was dropped from a great height into a high wind, and a number of the pallets did not reach their target. The best way of getting aid in is by land convoys, but that is not easy in some of the particularly hard-to-reach areas.

[Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)]

Members of the Defence Committee also visited Jordan and Lebanon, and we were particularly concerned to see that Daesh was threatening the borders of relatively stable countries that Britain has assisted with huge and impressive investment. What more can my right hon. Friend and the Government do to support those countries in dealing with the clear and present danger of this evil organisation?

[Michael Fallon]

My hon. Friend is right to say that Daesh represents a threat to the stability of the entire region, including the neighbours of Iraq and Syria. We have already made a huge contribution towards training the Jordanian forces, and we have more to do. We have recently been playing role in Lebanon, too, in helping its border defences.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

Does the Secretary of State believe that the use of the much-vaunted Brimstone missile against Daesh has, as both he and the Prime Minister assured us it would,

“cut off the head of the snake”

in Raqqa?

[Michael Fallon]

Brimstone is one of the precision munitions available to our armed forces, alongside Paveway bombs and the Hellfire missile. The United Kingdom forces have flown more than 2,100 combat missions against Daesh and have carried out more than 600 strikes, including with Brimstone missiles. One of the points for review at the recent ministerial meeting was what more we can do to target the infrastructure that supports Daesh—its command and control, logistics and supply routes—as well as our efforts in support of Iraqi forces.

[Brendan O'Hara]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer, but will he comment on recent reports in The New York Times that say that, although Daesh numbers have fallen in both Iraq and Syria, those in Libya have doubled in the same period? Is it not the case that, rather than diminishing Daesh, the current bombing campaign is simply displacing it?

[Michael Fallon]

No, I do not think there is direct evidence of movement from one country to another. Daesh is on the back foot in Iraq. The Iraqi and Kurdish forces, with support from the coalition, have liberated Tikrit, Baiji, Ramadi and other cities, and Daesh is being pushed back there. That is not happening yet in Syria, and I, like the hon. Gentleman, am extremely concerned about the proliferation of Daesh along the Libyan coastline, which is why we have been urgently assisting the formation of a new Libyan Government.

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

As the Secretary of State has said, coalition efforts have a significant effect on stopping and degrading Daesh not only in Iraq, but, to a lesser degree, in Syria. Does he agree, however, that a conventional, full-frontal assault on Mosul and Raqqa might well have the opposite effect to that we are seeking, and that trying to do something about Daesh’s poisonous ideology and funding is possibly more important than purely conventional attacks?

[Michael Fallon]

I agree with my hon. Friend. We have to look at all those things and deal with Daesh across the board. We have to combat its ideology, we have to cut off its financing and we have to deal with the message that it is putting out to local populations. Preparations for the liberation of both Mosul and Raqqa will require very careful preparation to reassure the Sunni population, particularly of Mosul, that it will be able to enjoy better security once Daesh is thrown out.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

As we consider these issues, our thoughts are very much with the brave members of our armed forces who are serving in the middle east, with all those who are living under the brutality of Daesh and with the victims of the terror attacks that have been carried out all over the world. The Secretary of State is absolutely right to say that we can simultaneously welcome the progress towards a ceasefire and the contributions that the Russians have made, and condemn the previous Russian attacks on the moderate forces that the coalition is working with. Will he tell us how reliable he feels the estimate of 70,000 moderate Syrian ground forces is at this moment in time?

[Michael Fallon]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, and I am grateful for the official support that has been given to the campaign against Daesh. The 70,000 figure was not the Government’s figure; it was a figure produced independently by the Joint Intelligence Committee. We have no reason to believe that it is wrong. Indeed, the civil war in Syria has been raging for six years, so considerable forces, of which the 70,000 are a formidable part, have been engaged against the Syrian regime.

[Toby Perkins]

Just two days ago, ISIS launched a series of attacks on the headquarters of the Kurdish forces in Tal Abyad, to the north of Raqqa. Given that we were hoping that the moderate forces were waiting to take the fight to Daesh, that is obviously very concerning. Will the Secretary of State tell us a little more about how effective he thinks UK airstrikes have been in achieving our objectives of weakening Daesh and supporting moderate forces to take back control and liberate Raqqa?

[Michael Fallon]

The UK is playing probably the second most important part in coalition air activity in the strikes, in surveillance and in intelligence. As I have said to the House, Daesh is being pushed back in Iraq. There is no doubt about that. It is being pushed up the Tigris and it is being pushed back west along the Euphrates. In Syria, the position is much more complicated. We are concerned at some of the more recent reports that may suggest co-ordination between Syrian democratic forces and the Assad regime, which is not helpful to the long-term aim of defeating Daesh.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

2. What steps his Department is taking to support British jobs and industry through its procurement process.

--- Later in debate ---

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

4. What recent assessment he has made of the effect of EU membership on the UK’s national security.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

NATO is the cornerstone of the United Kingdom’s defence. The European Union plays an important complementary role in supporting NATO’s response to international crises, by applying economic, humanitarian and diplomatic levers that NATO does not have. The Government therefore believe that the United Kingdom’s continued membership of a reformed European Union will make us safer and stronger.

[Drew Hendry]

Cyber threats pose a significant risk to the defence of the UK, and that issue was identified as one of four security challenges in the 2015 defence review. The EU network information and security directive was created in 2014 to enhance data security throughout EU member states, and it is vital that cyber security continues to be a priority for the MOD. Does the Minister agree that remaining a member of the European Union greatly enhances our ability to respond to future cyber threats?

[Michael Fallon]

Our recent strategic defence and security review identified cyber as one of the key threats facing this country. My Department has now taken overall responsibility for cyber security, and we are spending more than £2 billion to ensure that we keep the institutions of government properly protected and do our best to spread good practice in our industry.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

17. On a scale of one to 10, and in terms of preserving our national security, how would the Secretary of State rate and compare our membership of NATO with our membership of the EU?

[Michael Fallon]

As I have said, NATO is the cornerstone of our defence and the EU plays a complementary role. I have not yet come across any NATO Defence Minister who thinks that we should leave the European Union or that we would be safer and stronger outside it. Taken together, membership of those two organisations—the alliance and the union—keeps us stronger and safer in an uncertain world.

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Secretary of State think that President Putin would shed a tear if the UK left the European Union? Is it not clear that we are better off being part of that collaboration and sitting round the table with France, Germany and Italy, and thinking about all those security issues? Are we not better off and safer remaining part of the European Union?

[Michael Fallon]

The European Union was able to impose sanctions on President Putin for what he did in annexing Crimea and his aggression in eastern Ukraine. I think that President Putin would certainly welcome any fracturing of either NATO or the European Union.

[Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend accept that by advancing the rather quaint idea that somehow our membership of the EU enhances our national security, he is merely playing into the hands of people such as Mr Juncker and Chancellor Merkel who, if Britain votes to remain in the EU, would advance towards a European army and permanent structured co-operation, the result of which would be to undermine NATO—the very organisation that the Secretary of State says is the cornerstone of our national defence?

[Michael Fallon]

We have made it absolutely clear that we would not support any move towards a European Union army of the kind that my hon. Friend suggests. These two organisations have different memberships and slightly different objectives. As I have said, NATO is the key part and cornerstone of our defence, but legal, economic, diplomatic and humanitarian levers are available to the European Union that NATO does not have. Being a member of both gives us the best of both worlds.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

When the Secretary of State talks to fellow European Defence Ministers, he must acknowledge that some would prefer a European defence force ultimately to replace NATO. What is his view on that, and will he acknowledge that most of our European security successes are bilateral and not as part of the EU?

[Michael Fallon]

I have not heard a fellow European Defence Minister call on us to help to create any kind of European defence force. At the last NATO meeting I attended in Brussels last month, it was interesting that Germany specifically asked for NATO to help police the Aegean sea and deal with the migrant pressure. There is a role for NATO in some of these operations, and a role in other areas for the European Union. We are fortunate in being members of both.

[Victoria Prentis (Banbury) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that it is essential that all members of our armed forces serving away from home are able to vote in the June referendum?

[Michael Fallon]

Yes. The arrangements for voting in the referendum, as I understand it, are exactly the same as in a general election. Following my hon. Friend’s reminder, we will of course make every effort to ensure as high a turnout by the armed forces as possible.

[Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con)]

5. What plans he has to reform compensation for armed forces veterans affected by mesothelioma.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

14. Whether he plans to send armed ground forces to Libya.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

We do not envisage deploying ground forces to Libya in a combat role. The United Kingdom is considering, with our partners, how we can best support a new Libyan Government. Planning to date has focused on capacity building and security sector reform, but it is too early to say exactly what form that support would take. Before taking any military action in Libya, we would seek an invitation from the new Libyan Government.

[Kirsten Oswald]

I was disappointed to read in the media the Secretary of State’s recent statement that he had personally authorised the use of United Kingdom bases for United States airstrikes in Libya. The matter was not brought to the Chamber in advance. Furthermore, yesterday’s papers reported that the Government had now deployed British advisers to Libya. Will the Secretary of State commit himself to stopping this mission creep, and to ensuring that no further such action is taken without the leave of the House? Will he also explain his assessment of whether the action to date was lawful according to UK standards relating to the use of force, international humanitarian law, and human rights law?

[Michael Fallon]

The United States followed standard procedures, and made a formal request to use our bases. Once we had verified the legality of the operation, I granted permission for the United States to use our bases to support it, because they are trying to prevent Daesh from using Libya as a base from which to plan and carry out attacks that threaten the stability of Libya and the region, and indeed, potentially, the United Kingdom and our people as well. I was fully satisfied that the operation, which was a United States operation, would be conducted in accordance with international law.

[Mr Speaker]

With exemplary brevity—Tom Brake.

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

In what level of military involvement do the Government believe the British military must engage in Libya before the Prime Minister will bring any decision regarding military intervention in that country to the House?

[Michael Fallon]

As I have said, we do not intend to deploy ground forces in any combat role. Before engaging in any military operation in Libya, we would of course have to seek an invitation from the Libyan Government, and would also have to involve this Parliament. As part of the international community, we have been party to the Libyan international assistance mission, and we are ready to provide advice and training in support of the new Libyan Government. A training team of some 20 troops from the 4th Infantry Brigade is now moving to Tunisia to help to counter illegal cross-border movement from Libya in support of the Tunisian authorities.

[Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Amanda Milling (Cannock Chase) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

Our priorities are our operations against Daesh, which I reviewed earlier this month with some 40 of my international counterparts, and delivering our defence review commitments to increase the size and power of our armed forces to keep this country safe.

[Amanda Milling]

In the light of Russian aggression, the threat of Daesh and growing cyber-attacks, can my right hon. Friend confirm that this Government are committed to spending 2% of GDP on defence in every year of this Parliament? Does not the failure of the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) to match this commitment show that Labour is a risk to our security?

[Michael Fallon]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Resume your seat, Secretary of State. I appreciate the earnestness and commitment of the hon. Lady, but questions must be about Government policy, for which Ministers are responsible—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Be quiet, Mr Bridgen! Ministers are responsible for Government policy, not that of the Opposition. On the Government’s policy, the Secretary of State will comment; on that of the Opposition, he will not.

[Michael Fallon]

Let me confirm that this Government are committed to spending 2% of GDP on defence every year in this Parliament. The defence budget will rise by 0.5% above inflation every year of this decade and additional funding will be made available to the armed forces and intelligence agencies through the joint security fund. We have the largest defence budget in the European Union and the second largest in NATO, and this investment keeps us safe.

[Mr Speaker]

A model of the genre to be circulated without delay to all members of the Cabinet.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Alcohol misuse and dependency continue to create serious health risks, including those that can lead to loss of life, in the armed forces, where its use is three times higher than in the civilian population. It is now a year since the Defence Select Committee highlighted the fact that the Government’s alcohol strategy for the armed forces had made no noticeable difference. What steps is the Secretary of State now taking to set targets to manage alcohol consumption patterns and to address this serious issue?

[Michael Fallon]

The Army is taking steps to address this problem, particularly under the new Army leadership code. If I may, I will write to the hon. Lady with further details.

[Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con)]

T5. Can the Minister confirm that the last Government looked at all the alternatives to our continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent, and that none offered the protection that we need? Does he agree with the two former Labour Defence Secretaries who have said that it is “self-evident that a British nuclear deterrent will be essential to our security for decades to come”?

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Fallon]

Russia’s failure to halt airstrikes on the civilian population seemed designed to push that population towards the Turkish border and to make it Europe’s problem. That is why it is enormously important now that the ceasefire holds and that Russia returns to a more constructive path of working with us to get this terrible civil war ended.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

T9. Given the rapid growth in the volume and sophistication of cyber-attacks, a number of which are thwarted by GCHQ in my constituency, what steps are being taken to ensure that our rising defence budget actually translates into enhanced sovereign capability in cyber?

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Fallon]

I do not think it would be wise, and it certainly would not be proper, to discuss any conversations I have had with the intelligence and security communities.

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Ministry of Defence has had to spend £100 million on legal claims? Will this Government make sure that we spend money on our troops, and on giving them the best support and equipment, rather than on filling the wallets of unscrupulous lawyers?

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

T4. Given the increasing double-counting of defence expenditure towards both the official development assistance and the NATO targets, through mechanisms such as the conflict, security and stability fund, what discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Chancellor about the redefinition of ODA at the OECD level?

[Michael Fallon]

It is for the OECD to classify overseas development aid spending, and it is for NATO to classify what is acceptable as defence spending, which it will do after each member state submits its return.

[David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)]

Given the importance of our nuclear deterrent to our national security, will my right hon. Friend tell the House what representations he has had from the Labour party in support of this Government’s clear policy in this important area?

[Michael Fallon]

I have so far received some rather conflicting representations on the future of our nuclear deterrent. Like many Members across this House, there are mainstream Members of the Labour party who support—as every previous Government have done— the renewal of the nuclear deterrent that has helped to keep this country safe. There are some other Labour Members who seem to think that we can turn our nuclear submarines into water taxis.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

T6. Germany and Sweden have stopped selling weapons to Saudi Arabia as a result of concerns over Saudi actions in Yemen. Will the Government do likewise and impose a ban on arms sales to Saudi Arabia?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Flick Drummond (Portsmouth South) (Con)]

Along with many of my colleagues, I also went away during the recess. I had the pleasure of visiting the Falkland Islands. People there expressed concern about leaving the EU from an economic point of view, but will my right hon. Friend confirm, from a national security point of view, that a Conservative Government will always defend the right of the islanders to determine their own future, and reject calls from the Leader of the Opposition for a power-sharing deal?

[Michael Fallon]

As I said earlier, it was a pleasure to be the first Defence Secretary to visit the islands for more than a decade and to meet many of the 1,200 service personnel who are based there and to confirm our investment programme of £180 million over the next 10 years. Unlike the situation with the Labour party, nobody can be in any doubt about our commitment to the right of the islanders to determine their own future, and not to have it bargained away by a possible Labour Government reaching some accommodation with Argentina.

[Mr Speaker]

Alex Cunningham. Not here.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)]

Is it not the case that, if the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, France and Germany are more likely to dominate Europe’s defence structures, which means that, in the medium term, over the horizon, we are more likely to see European defence structures compete with, rather than complement, NATO?

[Michael Fallon]

My hon. Friend has made his views in this great debate very clear. As I said to the House earlier, NATO is the cornerstone of our security and the European Union complements that, with a number of other levers and weapons at its disposal—humanitarian, diplomatic and economic. There is no doubt in my mind that the fracturing of either the alliance or the Union would not aid the collective security of the west.

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Have any embedded British pilots flown any missions at all into Libya?

[Michael Fallon]

No.

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, I call Mr Philip Hollobone.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Since the parliamentary vote on Syria at the beginning of December, there have been 319 RAF airstrikes against Daesh in Iraq and 43 RAF airstrikes against Daesh in Syria. As we are meant to be targeting the head of the snake, why have there been seven and a half times more airstrikes in Iraq?

[Michael Fallon]

There were more airstrikes in Iraq than in Syria in December and January because we were engaged in assisting the Iraqi forces in liberating Ramadi, which was where most of the military action was, and assisting the Kurdish forces in the liberation of Sinjar, further north. As I discussed with my fellow Ministers in Brussels, it is also important to continue to attack the infrastructure that supports Daesh, including the oil wellheads from which it derives its revenue, and some of our strikes have been on those oilfields in eastern Syria.

Multinational Peacekeeping: Egypt

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Thursday 25th February 2016 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

The UK will deploy a squadron of Royal Engineers to provide short-term engineering support to the Multinational Force and Observers (MFO), a non-UN multilateral peacekeeping organisation in Egypt. The MFO was created by an agreement between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel to monitor the terms of the 1979 Treaty of the Peace and continues to make an important contribution to peace and stability in the region. The deployment begins in March 2016 and will involve approximately 100 personnel from the Corps of the Royal Engineers carrying out a range of infrastructure improvement works at the MFO main operating base in Sinai for up to 12 weeks.

The UK has a long history of supporting the MFO, and currently provides the MFO with an Engineer Officer of the rank of Major to serve on the Force Commander’s Staff.

In the Strategic Defence and Security Review 2015, the Government strengthened the UK’s commitment to international peacekeeping. This deployment further underlines our support to regional peace and security.

[HCWS555]

Defence Votes A: Annual Estimate

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

The Ministry of Defence Votes A estimate 2016-17, has been laid before the House today as HC 715. This outlines the maximum numbers of personnel to be maintained for each service in the armed forces during financial year 2016-17.

[HCWS522]

Defence Votes A: Supplementary Estimates

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

The Ministry of Defence Votes A supplementary Votes 2015-16, has been laid before the House today as HC 716. This outlines the increased maximum numbers of personnel to be maintained for service in the reserve marines force during financial year 2015-16.

[HCWS523]

Ukraine: Update

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Monday 18th January 2016 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

I have today laid before Parliament a Ministry of Defence departmental minute describing a further gifting package which the UK intends to make to the Government of Ukraine.

As I stated in my written ministerial statement of 19 November 2015 (Official Report: column 21WS), the Ukraine armed forces (UAF) face a chronic shortage of basic equipment.

This gift meets a specific Ukrainian request for assistance in alleviating medical casualties, often severely wounded. The UAF urgently need individual first aid kits and have continued to request them from allies. We have previously gifted first aid kits on several occasions in 2015.

The departmental minute describes a gifting package to the Ukrainian armed forces which is vitally needed and which will provide immediate benefit. The gift comprises 3,500 individual first aid kits (IFAKs). The total value of the gift is £478,800. Transport will be by military aircraft transfer, costing some £35,000.

Subject to completion of the departmental minute process, delivery is expected to be undertaken in April in sufficient time for the UK’s training courses for 2016-17.

[HCWS471]

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Monday 18th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab)]

12. What assessment he has made of progress towards defeating ISIL.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

I hope you will allow me, Mr Speaker, to formally welcome the new shadow Secretary of State and her team, and to regret the removal of their mainstream moderate predecessors, the hon. Members for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) and for North Durham (Mr Jones).

In recent weeks, Kurdish forces have recaptured Sinjar and the Iraqi army is clearing the last pockets of Daesh resistance in Ramadi. In Syria, anti-Daesh forces have captured the Tishreen dam east of Raqqa. Air strikes, including by the UK, have inflicted significant damage on Daesh’s illicit oil industry, reducing its revenues by about 10%.

[Stephen Hammond]

I am sure that the whole House will welcome what the Secretary of State said about the progress that has been made so far. Will he outline for the House whether any other measures are necessary to ensure that all members of the coalition intensify their efforts against Daesh?

[Michael Fallon]

On Wednesday I will meet my counterparts from Australia, Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands and the United States to review the overall direction of the counter-Daesh campaign. We have made good headway in Iraq and Syria in recent weeks, but it is now time to discuss how to maximise the coalition effort and exploit the opportunities that arise from the setbacks that Daesh has suffered.

[Tulip Siddiq]

A major contributor to Daesh activities and capabilities on the ground is the foreign funding that it receives. Will the Secretary of State outline what measures the UK is taking to curb the foreign funding that Islamist groups such as Daesh receive? In particular, what pressure is he putting on Saudi Arabia and Qatar?

[Michael Fallon]

That issue is one of the keys to Daesh’s survival, and it is important that we maximise our efforts to cut off its sources of revenue, including internal sources, such as its access to oil revenues and the taxes that it imposes inside Syria and Mosul, and external sources, such as the flows that the hon. Lady has described. We will discuss that issue in a wider meeting later on with all members of the coalition, including the countries that she mentioned.

[Mr Keith Simpson (Broadland) (Con)]

The Secretary of State will be aware of suggestions that part of the way to constrain Daesh is to use back-door diplomacy. Does he agree with Canon Andrew White of Baghdad, who said in an interview:

“You can’t negotiate with them. I have never said that about another group of people. These are really so different, so extreme, so radical, so evil”?

Does that put into context the suggestion from the Leader of the Opposition?

[Michael Fallon]

Like my hon. Friend, I was surprised to hear the suggestion that somehow one could negotiate with Daesh, or even that Daesh has some “strong points”. The House will recall that those strong points include the beheading of opponents, burning prisoners alive, throwing gays off buildings, enslaving young women, murdering innocent British tourists in Tunisia, and slaughtering young people on a night out in Paris. I fail to see any particular attraction.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

For the benefit of the Secretary of State, I do not think that Daesh has any strong points, but I would argue with the Prime Minister’s central argument about there being 70,000 so-called freedom fighters ready to take on Daesh on the ground in Syria. On Tuesday at the Liaison Committee the Prime Minister still could not defend that figure. Can the Secretary of State do so today?

[Michael Fallon]

Yes I can because it is not my figure or that of the Prime Minister: it is an assessment produced by the Joint Intelligence Committee, independently of Ministers. I say gently that if the right hon. Gentleman does not think that there are that many freedom fighters in Syria, how does he think that the civil war has lasted for five years, given that the Syrian army is more than 200,000 strong? People have been fighting the Assad regime.

[Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that a significant assault by ground forces, preferably local troops, is the only way to deal with Daesh in the longer term?

[Michael Fallon]

Yes. In the end, Daesh will only be prised out of cities such as Mosul in Iraq or Raqqa in Syria by local forces. We have already seen some success in the recovery of Baiji and Ramadi in Iraq, and I hope eventually we will see such success in other cities along the Tigris and the Euphrates. In the fullness of time I hope we will see similar action in Raqqa, but that does not mean that we should not now be getting on with a full deployment of airstrikes to deal with the infrastructure that supports Daesh.

[Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

I, too, welcome the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) to her place and wish her well in her new post. I know that we are in agreement on important areas of defence, and I look forward to working constructively with her and her team over the coming years.

Does the Secretary of State agree with the Prime Minister, who told the Liaison Committee last week that in the case of civilian casualties,

“if people make allegations we must look at them”?

[Michael Fallon]

We do an assessment after every British strike of the damage that has been caused, and check very carefully whether there are likely to have been casualties. Of course, that is taken into account in planning and approving the strike in the first place. It so happens that, in the first year and a bit of operations, we are not aware of any civilian casualties so far in our strikes in Iraq or more recently in Syria, but they are military operations—we do everything possible to reduce the risk of civilian casualties, but it is not possible to eliminate it entirely.

[Brendan O'Hara]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer, but can he therefore confirm that the Ministry of Defence will accept evidence of civilian deaths from other sources outwith UK military personnel and local friendly forces? Will he assure the House that the evidence from highly credible organisations such as the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, Airwars and the White Helmets—groups that work on the ground and that are very often the first people on the scene—will be considered when calculating civilian deaths in future?

[Michael Fallon]

Let me assure the hon. Gentleman that we will look at any evidence brought forward in open source reporting by other organisations in the assessment we make of each of the strikes in which our aircraft are involved. I have replied directly to one of the organisations he mentions—Airwars—pointing out that there is no particular evidence to back up the assessment it made in that particular case.

[Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give the House an update on the military and non-military support that is now being provided to opposition fighters in Syria?

[Michael Fallon]

Along with other countries, we have been supplying non-lethal equipment to those fighters and we played a part in the initial training programme that was organised by the United States, and we remain ready to do so. In addition, we are working with those groups on a route to a political settlement in the talks that are now under way under the so-called Vienna process.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State and the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara) for their generous welcome to this job. The Secretary of State has the honour of having perhaps the best job in Westminster. Mine is the second best. Hopefully we will change roles fairly soon. He can be assured that difficult questions will be asked and that we hope to work with the Government where we can for the sake of the security of people in Britain.

Senior military personnel have repeatedly warned that the RAF has been at full stretch, and that was even before the air strikes on Daesh began in Syria. A squadron of F-35s has only just been ordered, but will not come into service for several years. In the meantime, the air campaign against Daesh will be dependent on 40-year-old aircraft. Can the Secretary of State tell us how long he believes the air campaign can safely be maintained? What would happen if a new threat emerged? Would the RAF have capacity for any operations further than those to which the Government have already committed?

[Michael Fallon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her initial remarks. I note her ambition to move from the Opposition side of the House to the Government side, which was presumably shared by the two previous shadow Defence Secretaries that I have so far come across. Let me just say to her gently that a defence policy of nuclear submarines with no nuclear weapons, that regards Daesh as having “strong points”, and that wants to end the Falkland islanders’ right to self-determination, may be Labour’s defence policy, but it will never be Britain’s defence policy.

In respect of the hon. Lady’s question, the RAF is deploying a range of aircraft on Operation Shader in the middle east, including modern Typhoons and unmanned aircraft alongside the Tornados to which she referred. I can confirm that the RAF is well able to sustain that effort.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

5. What assessment he has made of the effect on UK security and the economy of building four Successor ballistic missile submarines for the nuclear deterrent; and if he will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

10. What recent representations he has received against replacing the independent nuclear deterrent.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

My Department regularly receives representations covering a wide range of views on defence matters, including the replacement of the independent nuclear deterrent.

[Mr Jones]

North Korea recently announced that it had tested a hydrogen bomb and only yesterday boasted that it had the capacity to obliterate the United States. To what extent does my right hon. Friend think North Korea would be deterred in its nuclear ambition by the knowledge that somewhere below the surface of the East China sea an unarmed submarine was lurking?

[Michael Fallon]

First, let me strongly condemn the nuclear tests conducted by North Korea, which seriously threaten regional and international security. I can assure my right hon. Friend that this Government will not gamble with the long-term security of our citizens. We remain committed to maintaining an independent nuclear deterrent. The only thing a nuclear submarine without nuclear weapons is likely to deter is anybody who cares about our security from ever voting Labour again.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

If the UK were to go down the route of decommissioning its warheads, in the so-called Japanese style, and then were to decide it needed to recommission them at some future point, is it the Government’s assessment that it could do so and remain compatible with the non-proliferation treaty?

[Michael Fallon]

First, let me make it clear that Japan does not have nuclear-powered submarines and does not have nuclear weapons, so talk of some Japanese option is entirely farcical. So far as the hon. Gentleman’s question is concerned, we have no intention of decommissioning.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

11. What plans he has to increase training support to the Nigerian armed forces to help to tackle Boko Haram.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

My priorities are our operations against Daesh, which I will be reviewing with my counterparts later this week, and the implementation of the SDSR decisions, in order to increase the size and power of our armed forces to keep Britain safe.

[Caroline Ansell]

I thank the Minister for his answer. With growing threats to our national security, I welcome this Government’s commitment to defence spending. What impact will the SDSR have on the future size and power of our armed forces? He may recall that I serve as patron to the Military Preparation College, which has a base in my constituency, and so I have a keen interest in the next generation of servicemen and women.

[Michael Fallon]

I recall both that and my visit to my hon. Friend’s constituency shortly before her election to this place. The commitment to increase the defence budget every year gives our armed forces certainty and stability. We are maintaining the size of the Army, and we are increasing the size of the Royal Navy, the RAF and the reserves. We will have more ships, more planes, more helicopters, more troops at readiness and better-equipped special forces to protect our people, to project our influence across the world and to promote our prosperity.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

In the past few days, reports of the difficulties faced by veterans suffering from Gulf war syndrome have reminded us how important it is that we recognise the extraordinary sacrifices made by our men and women in uniform. We must ensure that our service people are not only properly rewarded while they are serving, but looked after properly when they leave. What sort of message does the Minister think it sends that the Government have chosen to freeze war pensions at a time when the basic state pension is to be protected by a triple lock and is set to rise by 2.9% this year?

--- Later in debate ---

[Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)]

T4. Does the Secretary of State agree that any moves to weaken our commitment to an independent nuclear deterrent or to our leading role in NATO will make us less safe?

[Michael Fallon]

Absolutely. Our independent nuclear deterrent is the ultimate guarantee of our, and indeed of NATO’s, security, and a necessary insurance in an increasingly dangerous and uncertain world. Our conventional and nuclear capabilities, underwritten by our commitment to spend 2% of GDP on defence, support our leading role in NATO, which remains at the heart of our defence. This Government will not put our security at risk.

[Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)]

T7. The armed forces are facing serious personnel shortages in some of the most crucial specialist trades, including nuclear engineers and flight technicians. Given that a great deal of the expertise is in the Ministry of Defence’s civilian workforce, which the Government plan to cut by 30%, will the Minister explain how the Government plan to ensure that operational capabilities are protected when those cuts go ahead?

--- Later in debate ---

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

Does the Secretary of State have any moral concerns about the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia, given its shocking record on human rights and the fact that Amnesty International and others have documented a clear risk of UK arms being used to breach international humanitarian law?

[Michael Fallon]

The United Kingdom has some of the strictest arms export criteria in the world, and where any of our arms are exported we are obviously concerned that their use should be in full compliance with international humanitarian law. That is something I discuss regularly with my counterpart, the deputy crown prince, the Defence Minister of Saudi Arabia, and my other colleagues.

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

T8. Can my right hon. Friend set out what support his Department is offering to soldiers and veterans who are still subject to legal claims purporting to relate to incidents that took place during the Iraq war?

[Michael Fallon]

We take very seriously our duty to provide support for people who may be facing proceedings arising from their past service. We pay for independent legal advice in all such cases. I am extremely concerned at the number of claims now being brought on an industrial scale and we are considering steps to stem that flow, with options including restricting legal aid, limiting the time in which claims can be brought, and limiting the territorial application of the rights of those claimants.

[Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)]

I am convinced that Trident has a crucial role to play in the defence of our country, but the economic aspects are important as well and there is a huge group of workers throughout the country waiting with some anxiety to see whether or not Parliament is prepared to give final approval for the Successor programme. Will the Secretary of State give an assurance that he will not allow any unnecessary delay to get in the way of the need to bring the maingate proposals to the Floor of the House for debate and decision?

[Michael Fallon]

I can give the hon. Lady the assurance that she seeks. It takes more than 10 years to build one of those nuclear ballistic submarines and we need to get on and replace the existing Vanguard boats, which will become obsolescent towards the end of the 2020s. In the strategic defence review at the end of November we set out our commitment to replace all four boats, and I hope it will not be too long before Parliament is asked to endorse that commitment.

[Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con)]

Despite his obvious differences with Russia over Crimea and Ukraine, will the Secretary of State give me an assurance that he will redouble efforts to engage with his Russian counterpart on fighting collaboratively against Daesh in Syria?

[Michael Fallon]

I am not currently engaged in any discussions with my Russian counterpart. The illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014 and Russia’s continuing support to separatists in eastern Ukraine do not allow a return to normal engagement. However, in the interests of air and maritime safety, I have authorised MOD officials to undertake limited military-to-military engagement with the Russians to ensure that our own airspace is properly protected.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

Dalzell plate mill, Clydebridge quenching mill, the heavy sections at Scunthorpe and also Sheffield Forgemasters—the Secretary of State rightly said that the Government’s position is to maintain an independent nuclear deterrent, but will it be using British steel?

Armed Forces Pay Reform

Michael Fallon Excerpts

Thursday 7th January 2016 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)]

I am today announcing the introduction of a new pay model for armed forces personnel which will provide a modern, simple and credible remuneration offer for our armed forces that attracts and retains motivated people to deliver our operational commitments.

The current pay system, introduced in 2001, was the first integrated “tri-service” pay system. While a major advance at the time, it is now seen as overly complex with significant shortcomings and inefficiencies, which have led to dissatisfaction among service personnel.

We therefore plan to reform core pay from 1 April 2016 for all armed forces regulars and reservists up to the rank of commodore, brigadier and air commodore, except specialists such as professional aviators and special forces on bespoke pay scales. The new pay model will be both simplified and fairer.

In introducing a new pay system it is important that we recognise and value the contribution of service personnel who work so hard to keep us safe both at home and abroad. This is not a cost-saving exercise, and there will be pay protection to ensure that no service personnel take a pay cut on transition to the new model. Pay reform is integral to work to modernise the overall offer to service personnel and will sit alongside initiatives such as forces Help to Buy, the tenancy deposit loan scheme, the introduction of flexible working options, and of employment support to service spouses.

Rank will continue to be the main determinant of pay and incremental progression will remain a key feature of the new system, though it will be rationalised for both officers and other ranks—up to warrant officer level.

For other ranks where we require a breadth of trades there will also be four pay supplements which will better differentiate pay across the trades, removing the illogical characteristics of the current system. It will substantially reduce the number of pay journeys from potentially 128 different journeys to just four, with an associated reduction in administrative overheads. Crucially for service personnel this will provide a pay system that will be easier to understand and allow individuals to more accurately predict their future pay.

[HCWS453]