Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2022 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Relevant document: 30th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

Motion agreed.

Direct Payment to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2022

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2022 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Direct Payment to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2022.

Relevant document: 30th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I hope it will be useful to your Lordships if I speak to all the instruments, beginning with the draft Direct Payment to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2022, which were laid before this House on 3 February 2022. The matters in these instruments are closely related. Made using powers under the Agriculture Act 2020, they implement important aspects of our new agricultural policy, as set out in the agricultural transition plan published in November 2020 and updated in June 2021. The three instruments apply only in relation to England.

The Direct Payments to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2022 apply progressive reductions to direct payments to farmers in England for the 2022 scheme year. By doing so, it continues the process of phasing out direct payments in England which began in the 2021 scheme year. The Government remain committed to phasing out direct payments in England over the seven-year agricultural transition period. We are doing so as area-based payments are unfair: they go primarily to larger landowners, artificially inflate land rents, stand in the way of new entrants to farming getting access to land, and offer little return for the taxpayer.

To help farmers plan, we initially committed in 2018 to phase out direct payments. The specific reductions provided for in this instrument were announced in November 2020. As was the case for 2021, higher percentage reductions will be applied to payment amounts in higher payment bands.

Although direct payments are reducing, total funding to farmers is not. We will make money from the reductions available to targeted schemes, which will increase farm productivity, improve the health and welfare of animals, and enhance the natural environment. In the coming year, that reallocated money will be used to meet the rising demand from farmers for countryside stewardship, our current environmental offer, which has seen a 40% increase in applications. That funding will also be used in the launch of the first of our new environmental land management schemes: the sustainable farming incentive. Further, we will also fund the initial wave of the landscape recovery scheme, with projects focused on supporting native species and restoring rivers.

We are also making available free business advice to farmers and will continue to offer a range of popular grant offers so that farmers can invest in their businesses and become more efficient and sustainable. We will also be offering a new suite of opportunities for farmers, supply chains and researchers to collaborate on researching and developing innovative but practical solutions to the challenges and opportunities that farming faces. This is an essential reform that puts England on track to meet its legally binding environmental and net-zero targets, while creating a thriving and self-reliant farming sector.

The Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2022 amend the Agriculture (Financial Assistance) Regulations 2021, approved by this House on 22 March 2021. Those regulations put in place financial data publication and enforcement and monitoring requirements for four new financial assistance schemes established under the Agriculture Act 2020. This amending instrument extends the range of financial assistance schemes covered by the 2021 regulations to ensure that any new financial assistance scheme launched in 2022 and thereafter is subject to the same checking, monitoring and enforcement requirements that applied to the original schemes launched in 2021.

The 2021 regulations gave Defra the opportunity to test, refine and develop these new requirements. The amendments made by this instrument will now allow the Government to move on to the next stage of agricultural policy set out in the agricultural transition plan.

This instrument also strengthens the investigative powers in the 2021 regulations to ensure that where there are suspicions of offences in connection with financial assistance —for example, fraud offences—the Secretary of State can, where appropriate, fully investigate the matter. The amendment will allow the Secretary of State to investigate not only agreement holders but applicants, and in certain circumstances the employees or agents of an applicant or agreement holder. These investigative powers mirror powers Defra holds in relation to CAP schemes, while allowing Defra to use them in a more proportionate manner, reflecting the objectives of the Agriculture Act.

This instrument also removes a reference to grants in Regulation 13 of the 2021 regulations. The amendment will ensure that “financial assistance” is not limited to grants and can include other forms of assistance, as provided for in Section 2(1) of the Agriculture Act.

In drafting the 2021 regulations, Defra engaged with key stakeholders in a targeted consultation exercise between 4 August and 1 September 2020, giving stakeholders the opportunity to review Defra’s proposed approach and express their views. Feedback gathered during the consultation exercise was used to inform the content of the 2021 regulations and this amending instrument.

I turn to the Agriculture (Lump Sum Payment) (England) Regulations 2022. As part of our wider agricultural reforms, we want to support farmers who wish to leave the industry, as well as those who want to stay. We know that some farmers would like to retire or leave farming but have found it difficult to do so for financial reasons. That is why this instrument allows a scheme to be introduced in 2022 which provides lump sum payments to farmers in England who wish to leave the sector. These payments will be in place of any further direct payments to the recipient during the remainder of the agricultural transition. This is not new money and will not impact the funding of other schemes. This scheme should also free up land, creating more opportunities for new entrants and farmers who wish to expand.

These instruments implement provisions in the Agriculture Act 2020. They continue the transition away from the inefficient direct payments model of the CAP and they build upon the already implemented financial assistance framework to cover new schemes, in line with the agricultural transition plan. I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for introducing these regulations. I would like to put one or two questions about each in turn.

Could my noble friend the Minister clarify an issue that has been raised? The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said at Blackpool, if I have understood correctly, that farmers have more than made up for any income lost since these new provisions came in—or, in fact, since we left the European Union. My contacts told me over the weekend that is anything but the case. It would be welcome to know the basis for the Secretary of State’s remarks; perhaps there is something I am misunderstanding.

Regarding direct payments to farmers, the subject of the first regulation before us, as my noble friend said, this is putting us on the path to reducing the direct payments until we eventually come into ELMS. What has been identified, I think by the CLA especially, is that there will potentially be a 50% gap in the funding that farmers have been receiving between the regulations before us this afternoon and the end of the transition period. If that is the case, and I am sure my noble friend’s department will be aware of that, I would like to understand how that gap will be filled so that farmers do not lose out.

I am concerned that there is a lack of understanding. We are meant to be levelling up the economy and unleashing the rural economy. I think, at the moment, the rural economy is performing below par. One reason is that we simply do not have the tools.

I will take the North Yorkshire moors as an example, or the Yorkshire Dales, where my brother lives: we still have woeful broadband internet connections there and the mobile signal contacts are often potentially extremely dangerous. We learned at a recent meeting that masts have apparently been put in by two providers—I believe it is O₂ and EE—but these have not been linked up in this rather broad area of North Yorkshire. My noble friend’s department is responsible for rural affairs—it is in its title—so perhaps he could use his good offices to ensure that, as we leave direct payments and move to an alternative form, farmers will be given the tools to do the job.

To conclude on the first regulations, there is also a lack of understanding that tenants are unable to qualify under the new schemes. I would be interested to know to what extent that is reflected in contacts that the department has had with tenants. I know that our honourable friend the Farming Minister in the other place, Victoria Prentis, is aware of this. I commend the work of the Rock review on tenant farmers, but tenants are being evicted as we speak. There simply will not be that many of them left, if we carry on at this pace, when we reach the end of the transitional stage for direct payments to farmers.

I make a plea to my noble friend: will he help me to understand how, when it is gone, the direct payments relief will be replaced for those tenants who cannot claim for anything other than farm schemes owing to the nature of their farm tenancy agreements? Those are enshrined in a great many agricultural Acts, not least the 1947 Act. Can he put my mind at rest on the plight of tenant farmers?

I add that on common land graziers and those with shooting rights are trying to compete side by side. I am sure my noble friend will be aware that there is currently an issue with food security, not least because we understand that Ukrainians have been picking most of our fruit and vegetables in the last two or three years. It appears that, added to the cost of wheat, we may perhaps soon have in this country a local shortage of such staples. I wonder how my noble friend expects to address that.

I turn briefly to the Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations. Paragraph 7.6 of the Explanatory Memorandum says that the department will perhaps try to look more favourably and proportionately on how the offences are to be inspected; I think my noble friend alluded to this. However, the first sentence does not entirely fill me with confidence. It states:

“The instrument also expands the power of the Secretary of State to investigate suspected offences in connection with applications for, or receipt of financial assistance.”


That will not go down well, particularly with the owners of small family farms, who have said at every turn how they are finding that, if anything, the administrative burdens are increasing. I would like to hear a little more detail from my noble friend about how these regulations will applied. How will the full force of Defra be applied more proportionately?

The third and final instrument before us states clearly that direct payments are to be replaced. My noble friend referred to a lump sum payment. This might seem very attractive, particularly to older farmers. I refer again to my experience of North Yorkshire in this regard. The difficulty they have asked me about is: if they apply for this lump sum grant, how will that affect their tax situation? Did I understand my noble friend to say that it could be up to £100,000?

We have a shortage of affordable homes in the countryside. Very few new houses being built across North Yorkshire—and, as far as I can see, in other rural areas of England—are one- or two-bedroom, which would be ideal for farmers who have moved off the farm and want to stay in a village. If we do not make it more attractive for them, we will prevent newer, younger farmers coming in, which is a desire of Defra. With those few remarks, I look forward to my noble friend’s responses.

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I find these proposals depressing, because I do not think that they will achieve the promise, set out in the Agriculture Act, to broaden land ownership and bring a new generation of environmentally focused farmers into the sector. It feels like the proposals are rushed and flawed. I am sorry to have asked a number of questions here, but I think it is important for the future of the farming community and of our environmental land that we have a substantial reassurance that our concerns are misplaced and the right outcomes will be achieved. If the Minister is not able to do so today, I hope he will feel able to write with more detail about how the retirement scheme in particular can breathe new life into the sector.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. I will do my best to answer the many questions that have been put to me without exceeding my time slot.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked a number of questions in relation to the reduction of direct payments. We do not plan to consult further on the reductions, but the Government have published an evidence paper, updated in September 2019, setting out the expected impacts of removing those direct payments, and that included an analysis by sector, location and type of land tenure. It provided an analysis of how farm businesses across all sectors can offset the impact of reductions in direct payments. An update to that analysis was due to be published shortly, and it has been delayed—only slightly, I hope—in light of what is happening in Ukraine and the impact this will have on farm business incomes; that point was made by a number of noble Lords. We are reviewing this to ensure that the analysis remains fit for purpose.

All funding released from reductions in direct payments in England is being reinvested into delivering other schemes for farmers and land managers in this Parliament. I hope that is some reassurance to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, as well.

The noble Baroness raised other issues about reductions to direct payments. A small number of farmers leave the industry each year; that has been the case for some years now. They do so for a whole variety of reasons. According to the data we have from the Rural Payments Agency, in 2020 around 1,000 basic payment scheme claimants in England can be assumed to have exited the industry. It is too soon to produce equivalent data following the 2021 scheme year, but for the basic payment scheme 2021, the reductions for most farmers were modest. Around 80% of claimants would have received a reduction of around 5%, which is within the scope of the year-to-year variance experienced historically in any case due to currency fluctuations.

On the impact on the internal market from phasing out direct payments, these payments are largely decoupled from production and therefore they should not be trade distorting. Within the UK, there are already significant differences in the implementation of direct payment schemes, and while direct payments currently form an important contribution to farm income, as the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, said, in many cases it is critical—the reason they are still in business. They can nevertheless hamper productivity growth in the agriculture sector and drive up land rental prices. Removing them should raise our agriculture sector’s productivity across the board, leaving our farmers in a better position to compete.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, also asked what tests would have to be met before the Government agreed to deviate from the rollout of the basic payment cuts. Defra regularly gathers and publishes statistical data on the current state of the industry; for example, the results from the 2021-22 Farm Business Survey, which will cover the first year of progressive reductions, will be published this autumn. Data is also gathered through bodies such as the Animal and Plant Health Agency and the Rural Payments Agency, and that includes information on various aspects of the sector, such as the impact of reductions in direct payments. That allows the Government to monitor the sector and to make better decisions on the future of farming.

The Government are committed to phasing out untargeted direct payments. We do not believe that they are the best way to support farmers, as I tried to explain in my introductory remarks. The noble Baroness also asked about the savings being made from the first year of the basic payment reductions. For 2021, approximately £178 million was freed by reductions to the payments. This is being redirected into delivering other schemes for farmers.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, also asked for reassurance, as I think did my noble friend Lady McIntosh, that none of the allocated money from direct payment reductions has been reclaimed by the Treasury. All the funding released from reductions in the direct payments is being reinvested into delivering other schemes for farmers and land managers during this Parliament; it is not being hoarded for long-term future use. That amounts to an average of £2.4 billion a year over the period 2021-22 to 2024-25.

We have been clear all along that we will spend money where it delivers for the environment, alongside food production, and we need to support changes across the entire farm landscape to deliver those broad and connected ambitions. That is why we have increased the countryside stewardship payments by an average of 30% and introduced the sustainable farming incentive. Direct payments are not about food production. The decoupling of payments from food production took place around 15 years ago. Our evidence suggests that the removal of direct payments in England would have only a marginal effect, if any, on overall food production.

With regard to the Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2022, a shared enforcement framework was previously established by the Agriculture (Financial Assistance) Regulations 2021, ensuring that powers of entry will be exercised, and inspections carried out consistently across the schemes. This instrument extends that framework to cover additional new financial assistance schemes and broaden the investigative powers of the Secretary of State, in a manner consistent across the different schemes. Training and guidance will also be provided to those authorised with powers of entry or to carry out inspections to ensure that these are exercised in a consistent way.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked about the tree health pilot scheme and the annual health and welfare reviews being exempt from publication requirements; she wanted to know why that was the case. Specific location details and personal information identifying a land manager or landowner in relation to tree pest and disease findings will not be published. This information is considered to be sensitive and potentially damaging to the individuals or businesses concerned. It could also inhibit the reporting of future cases of pest and disease outbreaks. We will, however, publish aggregated data for these payments.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, also asked about the level of fraud in the farming community and overpayments. These regulations offer a range of enforcement measures to deal with fraud or breaches of scheme rules, including the withholding of financial assistance, recovering financial assistance previously awarded, and prohibiting a person from receiving financial assistance for up to two years. Appropriate sanctions will be available and applied where there are clear cases of misuse of public funds; for example, through neglect, serious cases of non-compliance or fraudulent behaviour. The noble Baroness asked for specific numbers but I am afraid I will have to get back to her on that because I do not have them, but the point she made, echoed by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, will have been heard loud and clear.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked when the guidance will be published for each financial assistance scheme. I understand the importance of giving farmers as much time as possible to plan. Detailed guidance for stakeholders will be published in good time ahead of each scheme being launched, giving farmers support to implement the standards and understand the new rules. This guidance will be written in plain English, which will set out and explain the detailed scheme rules and requirements. Some schemes, such as countryside stewardship and landscape recovery, are already live and appropriate guidance has been published. For other schemes, guidance will be published in good time ahead of their launch. For example, for the SFI scheme, we will publish final details of the offer for 2022 and scheme information later this spring—some might say we are in spring now, so shortly—ahead of opening for applications later in the year.

Without the Agriculture (Lump Sum Payment) (England) Regulations 2022, we will not be able to meet our public commitment to offer farmers a lump sum exit scheme this year. This would limit the options we can provide farmers as direct payments are phased out; it would also limit structural change in the farming sector. We believe that the calculation of the lump sum payment is fair. Our calculation means that, for most farmers, the lump sum will be approximately equivalent to the amount they might otherwise receive in direct payments for the years 2022 to 2027, as these are phased out over the remaining years of the planned agricultural transition.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked about the rationale behind the stipulation to retain five acres. Well, farmers will be able to keep up to five hectares of agricultural land. This allows, for example, a farmer to keep some land around or near their farmhouse. We feel this flexibility will help with uptake of the scheme, which will create more opportunities for new entrants and expanding farmers. In relation to the question that she asked about trees, all publicly subsidised planting has to comply with the UK forestry standards. They are based on a UN-sanctioned approach to sustainable forest management. The UK forestry standards are, in effect, a live document that is being updated all the time. At the moment, the emphasis is placed heavily on the need to use public money to deliver the maximum possible public good. This means not just having monoculture conifer plantations, but ensuring we have a genuine yield in biodiversity and numerous other public benefits, such as flood management and flood prevention. As it happens, the overwhelming majority of woodland creation supported by the Nature for Climate Fund grant schemes will be native broadleaf. That can be judged by the applications coming in, even though this very new fund is in its first year.

Returning to a question put to me by the noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Jones, which I realise I did not answer, we think that the lump sum exit scheme will free up land for new entrants and expanding farmers. It is about providing opportunities for farmers, rather than aiming for a particular balance between those entering the sector and existing farmers who wish to expand. We recognise the importance of providing additional support for new entrants alongside that lump sum exit scheme. Attracting new talent into food and farming is vital, if we want a sustainable and productive agricultural sector.

As set out in our agricultural transition plan for 2021 to 2024, we will provide funding to create lasting opportunities for new entrants to access land, infrastructure and support to establish successful and innovative businesses. In January this year, the Secretary of State announced the development of incubator pilots for new entrants, with council farms playing a key role. The details of the pilots are currently being designed and we hope to launch the pilot scheme later this year.

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh made a number of comments and raised questions, some of which overlapped with points made by the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, particularly on small and tenant farmers. At the end of January this year, the Secretary of State announced an independent review, chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Rock, dedicated to looking at how Defra schemes can better support the tenanted sector, as farming in England is reformed to be more sustainable. The review period is expected to be six to nine months, and it will publish its findings and recommendations later this year. I will not go into all the details on the group of experts—who has been selected and how, or who they represent—but it is a broad range and I am happy to provide that information if the noble Baroness would like me to. I could tell her now, if she asks, but I am worried about the time.

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[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I have that already. I am just slightly disappointed that the working group will not now report for nine months; it was meant to report within six months.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I said six to nine months; I am afraid that is the answer I received. I shall check on the timescale, but I assume six to nine months is correct, since that is what my colleague, my noble friend Lord Benyon, has told me.

The noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, raised a broader point beyond tenant farmers, about small farmers. He is right: small farmers are the backbone of our countryside, and any policy that results in a reduction in the diversity, breadth and viability of our small farmers is not a good one. They are critical to the future sustainability of our countryside. Farmers will be supported throughout the seven-year transition period to the new system. We are reducing direct payments, as the noble Duke said, but that will be gradually over the seven years, which will give farmers time to adapt and take advantage of the new offer. Money saved by direct payment reductions will be reinvested directly into English farming and agriculture through our new schemes. The Government are committed to providing the same cash total to the sector in each year of this Parliament. Some £10.7 million of funding has already been awarded through the interim phase of the future farming resilience fund. That provides, among other things, free business support to farmers and land managers to help them navigate the changes during the early years of the agricultural transition period.

Upland farmers have a particularly important role to play in addition to that of food production, and that is in land management. In their contribution to alleviating the threat of floods, which blight so many communities in this country, there is almost no one in a more important position than those farmers. They are absolutely in the mix when it comes to the new system that has been designed.

I turn to the questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and my noble friend the Duke of Montrose. My noble friend asked what proportion of the money would be spent on schemes which are not related to farming and are purely conservation. Again, I cannot give him a direct number, but there are schemes beyond the system being described today which are designed to support, for example, natural regeneration or tree planting, most of the funding for which comes from the nature for climate fund. We are talking here about a slightly different system which the nature for climate fund supports, but ultimately this is all about good land management.

The Government published a paper, which was updated in September 2019—I may have mentioned it earlier—setting out the impacts of removing the direct payments. That paper is being updated as we speak. The delay is caused by the conflict in Ukraine.

My noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, talked also about the impact on consumer food prices. The analysis that we have made in Defra suggests that any effect of direct payments on consumer food prices is limited. However, we are doing a full impact assessment on food security up to 2024, and the results will be made available and will inform future policy design.

It is important that we continue with the transition as planned. Applying reductions to direct payments frees up money which we can use to pay farmers and land managers to encourage environmental protection and enhancement, public access to the countryside, and the safeguarding of livestock and plants. We must also provide opportunities for farmers who wish to leave farming to do so in a managed way. These instruments will allow the Government to ensure that this can be done. I hope that I have answered the key questions put to me today. I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

Animals (Penalty Notices) Bill

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 18th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Randall for his sponsorship of this important Bill and for his continuous and totally reliable championing of animal welfare, both in this place and previously in the other place. Supporting the Bill is part of the Government’s continued commitment to improving animal health and welfare. While the Sentencing Act allows for higher sentencing for the worst cases of animal cruelty, the Bill will allow for the introduction of financial penalties to address less serious offences.

We in this country are rightly proud of our high standards and strive to maintain and improve our position as world leaders in animal health and welfare. As a society, we continue to demand these high standards from all those who keep animals, whether they are companions in our homes, work by our sides or help to produce the food that we eat. The Government are therefore committed to addressing not only the most abhorrent acts of cruelty but those less serious offences that, when ignored, could escalate, posing a greater risk to our nation’s animals.

We currently lack an enforcement option that will sit between and work with warning letters or improvement notices before criminal prosecution is undertaken. The Bill introduces a new system of financial penalties for animal health and welfare offences. It is simple but vital, as it will allow enforcers to deliver an effective and proportionate penalty to those who break the rules. Though straightforward, this measure has the potential to have a significant impact on how our standards are enforced.

A useful example of that might be if a pet breeder fails to include their licence number in online adverts for puppies and kittens. Businesses that breed animals must have a valid licence. Accidentally missing the licence number from an advert or forgetting to microchip animals before rehoming them might seem trivial and unimportant, but proper registration is critical to ensure that people can buy pets with confidence from a legitimate source and with the high health and welfare standards that they rightly expect. That is where a penalty notice is useful.

We must look at the bigger picture when it comes to enforcement and, of course, we must get the balance right. We want to provide early redirection to guide people towards compliance but not arbitrarily penalise those who have made genuine mistakes. I am sure that we can all appreciate the need for a different approach for someone who has accidentally forgotten to log an animal’s movement, for example, and the cruellest acts of animal abuse. This Bill will support that early redirection, so we can reach our shared goals of protecting and improving the health and welfare of our animals.

I will briefly answer one of the questions put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, whom I thank very much for her constructive words. I will make it clear that criminal prosecution will always be the most appropriate course of action for the most serious crimes. The introduction of penalty notices absolutely will not water down our ability to prosecute those who commit them. It will, however, provide a means for enforcers to consider less serious transgressions. I will return to this point in a few moments.

As the noble Lord, Lord Randall, has so eloquently explained, this Bill covers a vast range of legislation. It will create a practical and consistent tool for enforcers across the animal health and welfare space. Other offences in comparable areas can lead to a £5,000 penalty, such as offences under the eggs and chicks regulations, and offences for fishing under the Marine Management Organisation. We consider it to be proportional, therefore, for penalty notices to have an equivalent maximum of £5,000. The Bill also provides enabling powers and allows offences to be “turned on” via secondary legislation. This ensures a targeted approach which considers the differences across sectors and species. Determining which offences will have options for on-the-spot fines, versus consideration periods, will be part of the discussion officials have with NGOs, subject matter experts and enforcement authorities, should this Bill pass and become law.

I will now respond to a comment raised by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington. In some sectors, like farming, there will be a period of consideration for the inspector and the animal keeper—as the noble Lord acknowledged in his remarks. This will sit in between an inspection and an offer of penalty notice. It will allow the farmer or animal keeper the time they need to present additional information, or a chance to rectify the issue in a reasonable timeframe. As the noble Lord also acknowledged, this commitment was made very clearly at Third Reading in the other house by the honourable Member for North Oxfordshire on 4 February. In her speech, she used bovine TB testing as an example of how this option might be used.

I turn now to the appeals process more broadly. I will avoid going into the minutiae, but I am happy to do so if noble Lords ask me to. Penalty notices have been designed with the safeguarding of farmers, animal keepers and animals themselves in mind. The Bill establishes that an enforcement authority can withdraw a penalty notice at any time before payment, allowing for any misapplication of the penalty notice to be rectified. One imagines that this makes the appeals process much smoother, less bureaucratic, less cumbersome and more doable. To encourage a consistent approach to enforcement, the Bill makes it a mandatory requirement for enforcers to follow the guidance that will be laid before Parliament.

I will briefly return to another of the questions put to me by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, about engagement with stakeholders. I absolutely commit that we will engage fully with industry and other experts to determine the way penalties are applied to each relevant offence. I hope that in my earlier remarks I reassured the noble Baroness following her concerns that this might lead to watering down. It is absolutely not designed, in any way, to lead to watering down. However, in response to the second part of her question, penalty notices are not designed to replace any of the existing enforcement tools which we have already. That is not the purpose. Clearly, they will not be appropriate every time an offence is committed. Instead, they are designed to complement the existing enforcement for animal health and welfare offences. Enforcement authorities will be required to consider a set of factors when determining whether a penalty notice is appropriate, and the level of that penalty. The correct place to do this will be through secondary legislation and guidance. We have been clear that we will deliver a targeted and tailored approach to meet the sector’s needs. I reiterate the reassurances which have been made in the other place in the strongest possible terms.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked a number of questions. The first was simply in relation to the £5,000 fine. I hope that I have already responded implicitly in what I have said so far. This is not a set fine but the maximum—as my noble friend Lord Randall pointed out. It is, therefore, a sliding scale. Not every fine will be £5,000; some will be very much less than that. Clause 4 outlines the factors which the enforcement authorities will need to consider when determining the appropriate level of penalty. Enforcers will be required to follow the guidance which we will lay and publish when deciding the level of the fine.

The noble Baroness mentioned the Consolidated Fund. The enforcement authorities will be able to retain the costs incurred from issuing penalty notices, but any surplus will be surrendered to the Treasury. It is not a revenue-raising exercise. That is not its purpose. The costs will be recovered.

I thank my noble friend Lord Shrewsbury for his remarks generally and his support for this. He gave an example of his own pony suffering from African horse sickness. Clearly his actions were designed to be and were compassionate. It is impossible to imagine that they would fall foul of the rules that we are legislating for today. It would not be appropriate for me to go into details and rule de facto on specific cases, but his starting position and assumptions are entirely right. We have committed to work with a very wide range of stakeholders, including the enforcers, on precisely which offences would qualify for penalty notices. He mentioned one or two charities, such as the RSPCA, which I think, as he does, does a great job. They do not always get things right, but the legislation that we are putting in place here does not require the Government to include charities as enforcement authorities. There are currently no plans for the Government to do so, but it is possible under the Bill’s provisions. Obviously, this will need to be done with full consultation and enormous care, but I struggle to imagine that the examples which he gave would not pass the test that he himself has just set.

I hope that I have covered most of the questions put to me by noble Lords. If any remain, I am very happy to follow up in writing. I know that my noble friend Lord Randall has also made himself available to talk to noble Lords if there are any issues that have not been covered in this debate. In the meantime, I conclude by thanking noble Lords again for their involvement in today’s debate, particularly my noble friend Lord Randall. It is testament to his commitment that he is here, having just pulled through Covid. He cannot have enjoyed standing and speaking for as long as he did earlier, but I am thrilled to see him back. I also thank the NGOs, including the RSPCA and the National Farmers’ Union, which have been instrumental in supporting the Bill to this stage.

Minister for the Oceans

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the case for appointing a Minister for the Oceans.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, ocean protection is vital for the domestic and global economy as well as for nature, of course, and that is why we have several Ministers across government covering different aspects of the marine environment. We work together to deliver our ambition for healthy, productive and sustainable oceans through the effective management of UK waters and by championing ocean protection internationally. The range of ministerial portfolios covering the marine environment is both a reflection of the priority that we afford the ocean and the need to integrate ocean considerations across government policy, from biodiversity and climate change to energy and maritime security.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

What a brilliant Answer.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

I do not find it to be a brilliant Answer at all because it sounds like everywhere and nowhere to me. The oceans are a huge entity with billions and trillions of ecosystems. This is about not only their protection but understanding our impact on them, which might be good or bad. Should not the first job for the Minister today be to go back and ask for one good person to be a Minister for the Oceans so that they can be understood and supported?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right about the importance of the ocean but that is why this issue runs like a thread through most departments of government. The impact of our collective government approach is clear from: the success of the G7; COP 26, where we put nature, including the ocean, at the heart of our approach; our own extensive MPA network, covering nearly 40% of our domestic waters; our protection of 4 million square kilometres around our overseas territories; our leadership of international efforts to secure protection of 30% of the world’s ocean by 2030; and our co-sponsorship only last week of the successful UNEA resolution on a new treaty on plastic pollution. I could spend much longer than I have done reeling off things that have been achieved on the ocean by that collective approach here in the UK.

[Baroness Fall (Con)]

Rising sea levels are a national security issue as well. They threaten the boundaries of countries, as well as countries full stop. If we are to avoid the wild west on the wild seas, with refugees left abandoned, can I urge the Minister to address this matter on a global level with colleagues?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

We absolutely do address this issue at the global level. There are many things that we need to do to restore the health of the ocean and protect what we have, but the single most important thing that we can do is to tackle emissions. The mantra “climate action is ocean action” is very much the case , which is why the oceans were such a central part of our presidency of COP in Glasgow just a few months ago and throughout our presidency this year.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, in terms of international humanitarian law, how would a future Oceans Minister reconcile our signature to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and the safety of life at sea convention with the Government’s policy to push back vessels to outside national boundaries?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I am not 100% convinced that I followed the question, but the UK’s role internationally in standing up for the rule of law on our oceans is almost second to none. We have taken a strong position in the past few days in the BBNJ negotiations on the attempt to create a new framework. Other than perhaps France, which has taken a leadership role in recent weeks, no country in the world is doing more heavy lifting than the UK.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I stand ready to be Neptune. I must congratulate the Government on a number of the measures they have taken to protect whole areas of the ocean around our overseas territories. However, as I have mentioned before, looking after those waters needs ships. It is no good just having satellites and aeroplanes. Even in this latest shipbuilding strategy, there is no coverage of the ships that might be able to do that task. In the context of the strategy, and looking to the future, will the Minister ensure that we have the ships to look after these waters?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

It is a really important point. Take South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, for example, where we have a large protected area. Those waters are policed by a UK ship that is paid for through very conservative sales of the right to fish for krill. The areas of ocean that we currently protect, combined with what we hope to protect in the near future, mean that the vessel approach is probably unrealistic. One of the things we are trying to do this year is bring together the main donor countries and those countries most affected by illegal fishing to agree a global action plan. It will rely heavily on technology, which has advanced massively—even in the past 12 months—but has not been put to proper use.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, given that 90% of the UK’s biodiversity is in the overseas territories, what plans does the Minister have to work more closely with the First Ministers of those territories on this agenda? Can I also suggest that he is doing an excellent job as the Minister for Oceans and we do not need anyone else doing it?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thoroughly approve of the second part of the question; I thank my noble friend. I am in regular contact with my counterparts across the overseas territories. There is a real hunger among our overseas territories to do more in not just ocean conservation but terrestrial conservation. There is real ambition there. We made provision for their representatives to have a serious platform at COP 26, which has not happened before. Their leadership shone through and inspired other countries to raise their game.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that a single Minister for Oceans could capitalise on our status as a maritime nation, bringing together offshore renewable energy, a sustainable fishing policy and blue carbon initiatives to harness the ocean’s carbon sequestration capacity and deliver huge environmental benefits?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I am just not convinced that we would have a better approach. We may enjoy self-flagellating in the UK but, outside this country, the UK is seen as a leader on ocean conservation issues, on ocean-related climate change issues and in standing up for the rule of law in international waters and beyond. I am just not convinced that having a single Minister would meaningfully change anything. This issue touches almost every department of government. It is therefore right that, instead of creating new positions, we focus on improving cross-government discussions.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister has talked a grand game about policing the oceans of the world. Does he understand why we might be sceptical when the waterways under his and the Government’s direct control are infected with tonnes of sewage every day?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

That is a very different issue. The noble Lord will not be surprised that I disagree, but again I challenge him to give me a single example of another country that has either protected more waters directly or done more heavy lifting internationally to get the rest of the world to increase its ambition. More than 100 countries are now signed up and committed to protecting 30% of the world’s ocean by the end of this decade. That would not be happening if it were not for UK leadership.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend, as Minister for the Oceans, took a great interest in the passage of the now Environment Act, and in how the competing claims of fishing, shipping and new planning applications for offshore wind farms would be balanced. Have there been any further developments to put our minds at rest that future applications for offshore wind farms will have regard to fishing and shipping?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

This is an important point and there is a tension between our desire to scale up offshore wind, a sector in which the UK has a leadership position, and the need to protect our ocean and fishing sector. Defra is playing an increasingly important role, mostly through my colleague Rebecca Pow, and is liaising with BEIS and other departments, working to improve our understanding of the adverse environmental impacts and developing a cross-government approach to addressing them. In a few months, we will publish the findings of our recent consultation.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)]

My Lords, in advance of World Ocean Day, could the Minister indicate what action the Government will take to protect sensitive fish species and ensure that the by-catch is minimised, at the same time as underpinning our fishing industry throughout UK coastal communities?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, before becoming a Minister, my noble friend Lord Benyon put together a report for the Government on highly protected marine areas. We are now taking those plans forward. These areas will take a whole-site approach and conserve all species in the key habitats we want to protect around our domestic coastline. We will provide more details of this programme shortly. In addition, through the new blue planet fund the UK is investing £500 million to help other countries, particularly small-island developing states which really depend on marine environments for their economies, to protect and defend those environments against the threats we all know about.

Flood Reinsurance (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 27 January be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 10 March.

Relevant document: 29th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

Motion agreed.

Belarus

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Thursday 10th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of (1) the detention of political prisoners, (2) the attacks on journalists, and (3) the constitutional referendum, in Belarus; and what representations they have made to the government of that country on these issues.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, we have been clear in our condemnation of the repressive campaign by the Belarusian authorities against the human rights of the people of Belarus. We have repeatedly urged Belarus to release all political prisoners immediately and unconditionally. These reprehensible actions continue, of course, in the context of the Belarusian regime’s support for Russia’s illegal and unprovoked attack against Ukraine; this support must stop. The constitutional referendum fell well below international standards, and again denied genuine choice to the Belarusian people. The Minister for Europe and North America’s public statement on 28 February made it clear that we firmly support the Belarusian people’s right to determine their own future.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I am really grateful to the Minister for a helpful reply. I have just come from a meeting of the all-party group, and I would like to welcome Svetlana Tsikhanovskaya, the leader of free Belarus, who is sitting in our Gallery today—[Applause.] When I tabled this Question four weeks ago, it was to ask about political prisoners like the one I have adopted—Stepan Latypov. But the Minister has answered that, saying that the Government are putting pressure on for their release. What I now want to ask him, given the complicity of Belarus in the Russian attack on Ukraine, is: will he say unequivocally that the UK Government will impose the same sanctions it is imposing on Russia on the Lukashenko regime in Belarus?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I join the noble Lord in welcoming the leader of Belarus’s opposition, Mrs Svetlana Tsikhanovskaya. The UK absolutely recognises that the current regime does not speak for the majority of its people, and supports the extraordinary bravery of the opposition and civil society. On the question of sanctions, I can confirm that what the noble Lord said is correct. This goes back some way: since August 2020, the UK has introduced more than 100 sanctions designations in response to the fraudulent elections and human rights violations in that country. This includes sanctions against senior ranking officials in the regime, including the President of Belarus and his son, and BNK Ltd, an exporter of Belarusian oil products. More recently—in fact, just a few days ago—the Foreign Secretary launched a package of sanctions on those individuals and organisations who have aided and abetted Russia’s reckless aggression against Ukraine, and we continue to develop that position.

[Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I am a fellow member of the Council of Europe, along with the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and I also had the privilege of monitoring the rather farcical parliamentary elections in Belarus in 2019. Having just been at the same meeting and having listened to the leader of the opposition, it is very clear that the Russians are already beginning to use some Belarusian enterprises, state enterprises and banks as a means of avoiding the sanctions stranglehold we are trying to impose on the Russians, so I can only re-emphasise how important it is that we try to block off any opportunity for Russia to use Belarus as a means to try to evade sanctions.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an extremely important point. This view is shared by the UK Government, and it is reflected in the approach we are taking in relation to sanctions on individuals and organisations in Belarus.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, welcome the leader of free Belarus, and I hope we will not have to wait too long before she is in the position that she should be in. She told us how important those sanctions are and, as the noble Lord, Lord Russell, just referred to, that the Russians are using loopholes. We need comprehensively and urgently to address this. We will put some people from her group in touch with the FCDO with further details. One of the other things that struck me from what she said is how vital it is for unbiased news to reach the citizens of Belarus, which we will come on to later. What action is being taken to support news organisations, particularly the BBC, in relation to Belarus?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for making the introduction. I can tell her that Foreign Office Minister James Cleverly met the leader of the opposition, Svetlana Tsikhanovskaya, only yesterday, but we will certainly continue that dialogue, important as it is.

The noble Baroness is also absolutely right on the question of the media. We condemn the politically motivated crackdown on independent media in that country and remain deeply concerned about the safety of journalists there. Dozens of journalists, bloggers and media workers are under arrest or in jail. Websites of reputable media outlets have been declared extremist by the regime. One of the priorities of our programme funding in Belarus is supporting media freedom. We appeal to the Belarusian authorities to unconditionally and immediately release all political prisoners and to fully restore the free media space in Belarus, online and offline. Finally, we have increased our funding in this area, I believe threefold. If that is wrong, I will get back in touch with the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answers today. I think the whole House stands alongside the people of Belarus. As somebody who also sponsors a political prisoner, on behalf of our side of the House, I welcome the leader of the opposition. As a leader of the opposition myself, I think she has to face things that nobody in this country ever has to.

The Minister’s answers today have been welcome. On his response to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, on the role of the BBC and getting information, it is so important for those who stand for freedom in Belarus to have accurate information to support civil society. It is very important that we have a strong civil society in Belarus that can speak out for the people who also support a free Belarus. Will the Minister report back to the House at some point to say what more the Government can do in all areas, not just the media, to support civil society and give strength to those people who are standing up for freedom and democracy?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. Although she is asking a broader question, at the root of this, without a free press, freedom of speech and guarantors of that sort, it is very hard to imagine a flourishing and free civil society. To confirm what I hinted at earlier, we are, of course, supporting civil society and independent media in Belarus, and we have tripled our programme funding compared with pre-crisis levels, so it is now £4.5 million. We continue to look for opportunities to support civil society and, in particular, a free press in that country.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, do we not need to salute the courage of the leader of the opposition—the rightful democratic leader of Belarus—and all those thousands of people who, week after week, took to the streets last year? I am deeply disturbed about the BBC World Service, which is a wonderful example of soft power. Belarus needs to have free information, unfettered, yet the BBC World Service’s budget has not been guaranteed beyond April of this year.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, that is an important point, but I point out that in two Questions’ time, that will be the subject of a 10-minute question and answer session, where I hope to be able to provide some reassurance at least.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister take the opportunity to criticise and condemn the reprehensible actions of the Lukashenko regime in Belarus for the way in which it uses refugees as cannon fodder—deliberately bringing in refugees from the Middle East, including Syria, and then using them to promote its own interests by pushing them against the Baltic states and Poland? Given the number of refugees now being displaced in Poland—maybe as many as 7 million, according to some estimates—does he not agree that the situation is going to go from bad to worse?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

It absolutely will go from bad to worse if trends continue. The actions the noble Lord described are reprehensible. We have been clear in our condemnation of Lukashenko’s actions in engineering a migrant crisis to try to undermine our partners in the region. We have deployed a small team of UK Armed Forces to Lithuania and Poland to provide support to address the ongoing situation at the Belarusian border. We are also supporting our humanitarian partners to help alleviate the suffering of migrants at the border, including through our contributions to the Disaster Relief Emergency Fund.

[Baroness Crawley (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, welcome the leader of free Belarus today. Is the Minister aware that last week I spoke to the mother of young Dzmitry Zherbutovich, who wanted me to raise his prison treatment in our Chamber this morning? He is serving a five-year prison sentence in Belarus for the crime of standing in front of a water cannon. For the first year, he was forced to be in a five square-metre cell with 14 other prisoners, all of whom except Dzmitry smoked, with no ventilation and where they all had to stand during the day. Will the Minister put even more pressure on the Belarusian regime about its inhumane treatment of political prisoners?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for raising the case of young Dzmitry. I am not familiar with his case, but I am familiar with many others which are no less appalling. We are deeply concerned about the conditions in which political detainees are held in that country. Many of them have limited or no access to anything like proper healthcare and are subject to relentless interrogation, intimidation and psychological pressure techniques, all of which amount to a form of torture. This is contrary to Belarus’ international obligations to which the authorities have committed themselves on numerous occasions but continuously fail to uphold. We make our solidarity with political prisoners clear frequently, attend trials and engage with the families of political prisoners at every opportunity.

Ukraine: BBC World Service

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Thursday 10th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking, if any, to support the provision of the BBC World Service to the people of Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, we strongly value the work of the BBC World Service and its independent and impartial broadcasting. Putin’s invasion of Ukraine means that BBC World Service channels play an increasingly valuable role in challenging the disinformation emanating from the Kremlin. BBC Ukrainian services are wholly funded by the licence fee, and officials from the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport are working closely with the BBC to consider how best to support BBC services for the people of Ukraine.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. We have had a bit of a warm-up, but there is no harm in that. Among the many incredibly distressing events unfolding in Ukraine is Putin’s manipulation, distortion and, most recently, penalising of free media. I pay tribute to all those courageous journalists who continue to bring us the truth. From the Minister’s response to an earlier Question, he clearly recognises that the BBC World Service is a beacon in this, so can he confirm—I think he has—that the FCDO will provide funding at levels that will allow the World Service to continue to be this beacon?

In response to the same request—from my friend Christine Jardine MP in the other place—the Secretary of State at the DDCMS appeared not to know that the World Service was part of her department, although 75% of its funding comes from the licence fee. Can the Minister assure this House that she now understands that it is, and does he agree that support for the BBC World Service is not compatible with the freezing of the licence fee, from which it gets so much of its funding?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I strongly agree that the BBC World Service provides just that: a world service and a world-class service. It is something that we are, and can continue to be, very proud of, particularly in these dark circumstances of today. It now reaches 364 million people every single week, a 40% increase since the FCDO’s well-funded World2020 programme began in 2016. That is a big jump in a short period. Global audience measure data for last year demonstrates that it is the top-rated international broadcaster for trustworthiness, reliability and depth of coverage. I therefore very strongly agree with the premise of the noble Baroness’s question. I cannot give her financial answers, because that will not be possible until the spending review settlement has been made public, but I can tell her that the final decisions will reflect the importance and respect with which we hold that organisation.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I have never heard such a dissatisfactory Answer. We are in a global crisis. Ukraine has been invaded by a hostile force which is committing war crimes. One of the most important contributions we can make is our soft power through the BBC World Service, which is 75% funded from the licence fee. The Government should now urgently take steps to properly fund the BBC World Service, extend its coverage, particularly through the internet, and find ways to circumvent the Russian Government’s ban on access to the BBC. Will the Minister take that message back to other Ministers? It is important that it receives vital funding now.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, it is worth pointing out that, since the war began, the BBC Ukrainian website has had 7 million page views, with just under 1.5 million for the live page YouTube channels alone—a 100% audience increase. BBC News reaches 5.5 million people in Ukraine, with BBC Ukrainian reaching 3.7 million and 1.5 million accessing English language news content. Demand is increasing and the supply is there. The service is being provided at an absolutely critical time and is providing a service that is second to none. As the noble Lord knows, I am not in a position to make spending commitments on behalf of the department at this point, but I can tell him that no one in the department, or indeed in government, questions the value or importance of the World Service that I have just recognised in my answer. That will be reflected in decisions taken.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, no other broadcasting company could have flexed as quickly as the BBC has in this emergency, particularly in relation to HF shortwave broadcasting. Could the Minister at least give a commitment that the BBC as a public service broadcaster at home and abroad will be adequately supported and resourced and not undermined in the public discourse?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for his question. I hope that the answers I have already given demonstrate that there is nothing other than respect for the service that the BBC World Service provides and an absolute commitment that that service will continue. For all the reasons we know, it is so important.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has a point: the time has come to use our soft power effectively. The entire Russian murder campaign is conducted behind a cover of a wall of lies and fake news and that has to be countered. Even though there may be separate views about the long-term funding of the BBC’s excellent World Service, now is the time to concentrate reviews, resources and effort on boosting our counter to this battle of lies, which is where the war is being fought. Could my noble friend take back this very strong message to his colleagues? I think we could do a lot more in this area.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I strongly agree with the point made by my noble friend. I do not think there is any question on this; I am certainly not aware of anything that has been said that would in any way suggest that the Government do not recognise the tremendous value that the World Service provides, particularly in circumstances such as today’s, where, as my noble friend said, we are up against a brutal regime which is second to none globally in the art of misinformation. So I strongly agree with my noble friend’s comments and will convey the message from him and other noble Lords to the department.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

The integrated review proudly and rightly states that

“The BBC is the most trusted broadcaster worldwide”,


and the Minister has repeated that. When the review was published, with the cut in ODA and the attacks on the BBC, that struck me as extreme irony. The Minister has just said that he cannot comment on funding, but he should be able to, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, is right that he can certainly make sure that the constant and insidious attacks on the BBC, including the World Service, are silenced.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the BBC as an organisation is absolutely gigantic. We are talking today about a critical part of that service, but it is just one part. It should be possible to be critical of many different aspects of the BBC as an organisation or its focus, without that being seen to undermine what everyone recognises as the extraordinarily valuable and unique international service it provides. I reiterate what I said earlier: that service will continue.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, I was expecting DCMS to answer this Question. Nevertheless, as this is a cultural question, I ask the Minister: what advice and assistance are we giving to help protect Ukraine’s artistic and cultural heritage, which is substantial and threatened? What role can our own cultural institutions play in this?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I am not going to bluff this answer. I am afraid I do not know. I recognise the merit of the noble Earl’s question, but I am not the right person to answer it. I will convey his question and secure a response.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, it is clear that there is support for the BBC World Service across the House, and I welcome the commitment made in the October spending review that the Government will continue to invest in it. I understand what the Minister says about the spending review, but might he be able to say when the BBC World Service will receive its future funding settlement, so that it can continue to plan for its important work in Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and elsewhere?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I would love to be able to give my noble friend a precise answer. However, I can tell her only that the department making the decision will hear the message from this House loud and clear and that I will do what I can to ensure that we have a resolution as soon as possible.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in the aftermath of the Cold War, I met a young Ukrainian woman who told me that the proudest moment of her life was when she told her parents that she was going to work for the BBC World Service. They had listened to it clandestinely throughout the whole Soviet era. As the noble Lord told us, last week 5 million Ukrainians listened to the BBC via its digital platform. In addition to that, 17 million Russians—triple the usual number—listened to the BBC last week alone. Can we urgently do as so many noble Lords have urged and come to a decision within the next week? The money runs out at the end of March or beginning of April. In these urgent, desperate times, we need a decision on this.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I do not disagree with what the noble Lord has said and, as I said, I will push for the earliest possible resolution. Finally, I would just reiterate that the value this Government place on the service that is being provided internationally is absolute and there is no question of it being cut back.

Flood Reinsurance (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Thursday 10th March 2022 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Flood Reinsurance (Amendment) Regulations 2022.

Relevant document: 29th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the instrument before us was laid before the House on 27 January. It makes important changes to the Flood Re scheme, a joint government and industry scheme launched in 2016 designed to improve the availability and affordability of UK household flood insurance.

In 2019, the scheme administrator, Flood Re, published its first quinquennial review. This is a statutory requirement. Flood Re made several recommendations to the Government. A number of proposals have since been assessed and consulted on, leading to the changes set out in this instrument.

To date, Flood Re has helped more than 350,000 households at high risk of flooding across the UK to access affordable insurance. Before Flood Re, just 9% of policyholders with a prior flood claim could obtain flood insurance quotes from two or more insurers, and none could get quotes from five or more. Following the scheme’s launch in 2016, the availability of flood insurance policies for those with prior flood claims has increased. Around 96% of customers can now get five or more quotes, and four out of five householders with a prior flood claim have seen price reductions of more than 50% since the scheme’s launch.

Building on this success, the statutory instrument makes technical changes to the scheme to improve its efficiency and effectiveness and changes to drive the uptake of property flood resilience measures, helping the UK to become more resilient to the changing climate. I will outline these measures in turn.

The statutory instrument designates a revised scheme, as described in the new scheme document dated 19 January 2022. The scheme document provides the framework for Flood Re to administer the scheme. First, the new scheme document will allow Flood Re to propose a revision to levy 1 every three years instead of every five, and reflects the Government’s assurance process. Levy 1 is the scheme’s primary income, raised from UK household insurers based on their market share. The revised levy amount will be subject to parliamentary approval every three years. This change will allow Flood Re to obtain better value for money when purchasing reinsurance and be more dynamic in response to the potentially changing risk profile. The instrument amends the figure for levy 1 from £180 million to £135 million per year for the next three years. This will ensure that the total levy is no higher than it needs to be.

Secondly, the new scheme document will allow Flood Re to set the liability limit— this sets the maximum amount of claims that Flood Re is liable to pay to insurers in any one financial year—every three years instead of every five. This will align it with the levy-setting cycle and afford Flood Re greater flexibility to respond to the scheme’s changing income needs and risk profile.

Thirdly, the new scheme document also makes a technical clarification that levy 1 funds will be returned to the Government when the scheme ends, in line with the established agreement between the Government and Flood Re.

I now turn to the change that will help drive the uptake of property flood resilience in UK households. We have seen only recently the devastation that can be caused by flooding and the impact on the lives and health of those households that are affected. Property flood resilience gives homes and businesses the tools to manage the impact that flooding has on their property and their lives, enabling them to respond and recover more quickly if flooding happens.

The new scheme document will allow Flood Re to pay claims from insurers ceding to the scheme, which include an amount of resilient repair up to a value of £10,000 above the cost of like-for-like reinstatement of actual flood damage. This will allow UK householders to build back better after a flood, making their homes more resilient to possible future flooding by using products such as air brick covers, flood doors, water-resistant kitchens and plasterboard. Resilient repair will enable homeowners to return to their homes quicker and reduce the cost of any future claims.

Build back better is being introduced on a voluntary basis. Insurance companies who cede to the scheme can choose whether to offer build back better to their customers. Participating insurers will be able to start offering build back better soon after the regulations come into force. Flood Re, the scheme administrator, will require insurers choosing to participate in build back better to offer it across their home insurance offerings rather than just on insurance policies ceded to Flood Re, thus ensuring consistency and fairness for all customers.

By providing Flood Re with the power to pay claims to fund resilient repair over and above normal reinstatement, the Government and Flood Re aim to drive a cultural shift across the insurance market, driving positive changes in supply chains, raising awareness and demand for property flood resilience, and helping to capture the evidence on the benefits of property flood resilience to support future changes in the market.

The Government will publish a property flood resilience road map at the end of this year, identifying the action that government and industry need to take to accelerate the take-up of property flood resilience measures and successfully underpin the market. This will ensure that all relevant bodies play their part and that consumers can have assurance about the quality of products and their installation. The road map will consider whether any changes to build back better are required to strengthen and improve it. Any future regulations brought forward making further changes to the Flood Re scheme would receive parliamentary scrutiny through the affirmative procedure, as required by the Water Act 2014.

Flood risk management policy is devolved. However, insurance policy, including the operation and application of the Flood Re scheme, is a reserved policy. Any changes to the scheme, including those in this instrument, take effect across the UK. The Government have engaged extensively with the devolved Administrations throughout the development of these changes; they support their implementation. No impact assessment has been prepared for this instrument because it has no significant impact on business, charities or voluntary bodies. Most impacts on business are anticipated to be either neutral or positive. There is also no impact on the public sector.

I commend these regulations to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his helpful introduction to this SI and the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for drawing it to our attention. I had a strong sense of déjà vu when reading it, as I was present when the first SI was debated back in 2015, which clearly illustrates that I have been in the job too long. I remember our original debates and will come back to some of the issues raised then.

Since then, the UK has suffered more regular and devastating extreme weather events, as the noble Baroness has said, with the result that thousands of properties are being flooded, many on a repeat basis. This has underlined the need for more robust and accessible home insurance. It is good to hear that Flood Re has been judged a success and that it has helped thousands of homeowners in flood risk areas who would otherwise have struggled to insure their homes, as the Minister was saying. It was also reassuring to hear that the scheme has met its initial liquidity and capital requirements and has a high solvency ratio, making it financially secure. On this basis, we accept that it makes sense to reduce the levy on insurance companies from £180 million to £135 million a year.

However, a number of questions arise from the proposals, which I would be grateful if the Minister could address. First, the Explanatory Memorandum referred to the statutory quinquennial review of the FR scheme and the recommendations that arose from it. Have all the recommendations of that review been agreed by government and put forward in this amended proposal today, or are there other recommendations still out there or under consideration or which have been rejected by the Government?

Secondly, as we have heard, one of the recommendations before us today is the build back better proposal to allow claims up to the value of £10,000 to enable homeowners to fund flood-resilient improvements over and above any like-for-like repairs. This is a welcome initiative, but paragraph 12.3 makes it clear that the participation of insurers in the build back better supplement will be voluntary. Why was it not made compulsory for all insurers to offer this payment, given the urgent need to make our properties more resilient to flood risk in future? Do we have any information about the appetite of insurers to pay this extra supplement? The Minister quoted some statistics, but I would be grateful if he could confirm what proportion of insurers are providing the build back better facility.

Thirdly, I return to some of the concerns raised when the original scheme was introduced which still seem relevant today. Are the poorest and most vulnerable—those in tenanted and rented properties—still excluded from the scheme? It really does not seem right that people living in the same or adjoining properties could have access to different standards of flood insurance purely on the basis of the status of those living in the property. Do you still have to be the homeowner to qualify? Since the scheme now appears to be financially secure, what consideration was given to extending access to it to wider categories of claimants, such as tenants?

Can the Minister clarify the current status of farmhouses? I know that this has been a concern for the farming community. Most people would say that they are primarily residential properties, even if they also act as a business address. Can farmhouses join the Flood Re scheme?

Finally, could the Minister clarify whether we are still focusing on properties deemed in high-risk flood areas? Given the recognised threat of extreme weather events arising from climate change—the noble Baroness talked about the issues raised by the Adaptation Sub-Committee on this—how can we be sure that the right areas are now being designated as high-risk flood areas? Has not our experience of flood risk in recent years been that it is increasingly hard to define? Does the Environment Agency have the resources to reassess and redesignate flood risk areas from low to high risk with sufficient speed to ensure that insurers can respond accordingly? What further powers are the Government proposing to give to the Environment Agency to ensure that no further properties are built in high-risk flood areas against its advice, as can happen at the moment?

These are all issues that need to be addressed if Flood Re is to achieve its true potential. I hope the Minister can address them. I look forward to his response.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. I will address the questions put to me.

As has been noted, the levy will reduce from £180 million to £135 million per year for the next three years. That is based on an assessment that £135 million is what is needed. The view is that we do not want to set the levy higher than it needs to be because it is effectively a form of tax.

I note the arguments put forward by the noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Jones, that everything suggests that flood risk is increasing and that volatile weather patterns are likely to become more so, but the scheme is not designed to be the UK’s answer to flood risk; it is a part of the answer. There is a whole bunch of other policies designed to make the UK more resilient in the face of increasingly volatile weather. For example, a major component of the environmental land management subsidy system is about better land management to create more resilience. Our tree strategy, the peat strategy and so on are all different components of it. There is the grey infrastructure component of the work Defra is doing as well. This is just part of the much wider approach the UK is taking.

The scheme is financially secure. Flood Re has met its initial liquidity and capital requirements and has a high solvency ratio. The Government have undertaken the necessary due diligence to assure themselves that Flood Re has enough funds to cover any losses as a result of a major flood event. The Government Actuary’s Department agrees that £135 million is suitable and well within the risk appetite of Flood Re.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked about the liability limit. Flood Re has set the liability limit at £1.9 billion from 1 April 2022 for the following three years. This is a non-statutory change already approved by the Secretary of State for the Environment, aligned with the Government’s assurance process.

Build back better will play a key role in helping to increase the resilience of UK households to flooding. We hope that it will drive a cultural shift across the insurance market, driving positive changes in supply chains, raising awareness and demand for property flood resilience, and helping to capture the evidence on the benefits of property flood resilience to support future changes in the market.

Research by Defra and Flood Re has demonstrated that the additional investment for flood resilience over standard repair can be as high as £35,000, but averages to around £5,200. However, the Government recognise that the cost of making different properties resilient may still exceed the contribution from build back better. Insurers and/or the householders can choose to pay for build back better above the £10,000 cap if that is what they want to do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

Before the Minister sits down, one question that I do not think he addressed was about high-risk flood areas. At the moment, you can access the scheme only if you live in a high-risk flood area. Obviously, that is a moveable feast these days because of extreme weather events, so it would not necessarily be the traditional areas that get flooded. There could be flash flooding in many parts of the country for all sorts of reasons. How often does the Environment Agency update that information and allow new properties to come onstream to be insured under the scheme? If we are not careful, it could become outdated very quickly and not be available to all those categories of homes that need it.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. I am told that the Environment Agency will reissue a map of flood risk some time in 2024. As she says, even that new map will need to be continuously updated. One hopes that those areas at high risk today will not necessarily be at high risk in the years to come if the measures that we invest in now are carried out appropriately and if our rationale and assumptions are correct.

Motion agreed.

Global Refugee Forum

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hylton]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they made of the outcomes of the first Global Refugee Forum, held in Geneva in December 2019.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, at the first Global Refugee Forum the international community demonstrated its commitment to responding to the plight of refugees and host communities, announcing pledges and sharing examples of good practice. The UK underlined our leadership in longer-term approaches, highlighting support for Syrian refugees in Jordan and the Rohingya in Bangladesh.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Earlier this year, my noble friend Lord Alton’s debate discussed the huge number of refugees and displaced people. Now, the brutal invasion of Ukraine has caused a whole new crisis. Does the noble Lord agree that the Global Refugee Forum calls for continuous co-operation between Governments and their officials? Can he give the House some good news of progress, especially in relation to eastern Europe and the Mediterranean?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. Of course, he is right; the UK is one of the High Commissioner for Refugees’ largest financial supporters. We provided more than £714 million in funding across bilateral and multilateral channels between 2016 and 2020, and the same is true in relation to other refugee and migration-related organisations. We provided the International Organization for Migration with around £89 million in 2020, making us the third-largest donor. We were the second-largest donor to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the second-largest donor to the International Committee of the Red Cross—I could go on. The UK has a proud record of supporting refugees globally.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, does it show leadership by this country when we take a handful of Ukrainian refugees, and when we send those who arrive in Calais to Paris or Brussels to get their papers sorted out? Is that not a miserable response compared with Ireland, which has so far taken nearly 700, has committed to taking 2% of all the refugees and is talking about a figure of 100,000 to avoid another Calais? Should we not be ashamed of ourselves?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The figure that has been quoted and to which I think the noble Lord is referring—that the UK has so far accepted 50 people—is, in reality, growing very significantly. To quote Minister Cleverly from the other place, he says that we are looking to create something very large-scale very quickly. Initially it will be slower, but that will pick up. There is no doubt from the words spoken by the Home Secretary, Priti Patel, today that we have created a new system in record time, precisely to allow a far larger number of refugees into this country.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, we have all been ashamed, I think, to see the people in the railway stations in places such as Berlin holding up placards saying that they can host one person or two people. Many people in this country would do the same thing. Why are the Government not making this system available so that good people in this country can help people in Ukraine?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

We are creating exactly that system. We are creating a humanitarian sponsorship pathway which will open up a route to the UK for Ukrainians who may not have family ties with the UK but who can match with individuals, charities, businesses and community groups of the sort the noble Baroness just mentioned. Those under this scheme would be granted leave for an initial 12 months. There is no limit to the number of people who could be eligible for this scheme: we will welcome as many Ukrainians as wish to come, if they have matched sponsors.

[Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie (Con)]

My Lords, this weekend one of the problems seemed to be that there are very few appointments available in the visa application centres in Poland and other surrounding countries. The website through which refugees are trying to access these visa schemes could not cope with the capacity. Does the Minister know when capacity will be in place so that the people fleeing Ukraine to the neighbouring countries can get appointments, get their documents checked and travel to the UK to be reunited with family?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right that there have been serious capacity issues. We have just sent a group of UK experts to bolster the UK’s support to countries surrounding Ukraine, to receive and support the increasing flow of refugees fleeing that country. For example, a four-person team has arrived in Poland to support the regional response, providing logistics advice, analysis of needs on the ground and so on. We are also deploying additional experts right across the region in the coming days, including to Moldova where we have humanitarian experts already stationed.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

My Lords, it was my privilege to speak at the resettlement conference that happened before the Global Refugee Forum in Geneva in 2019. One of the key lessons that came out of both events was to listen to the voices of refugees in helping to create the system, so that it is more effective. Could the Minister tell us how the voices of refugees in this country are being listened to in order to make the Ukraine system as effective as possible?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The teams are designing an entirely new scheme for an entirely new situation as quickly as possible. That is reflected in the numbers that have so far been reported. But from everything we have heard today— from the Foreign Secretary and the relevant Minister—we are up and running and we are ready now to absorb larger numbers of refugees from Ukraine.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

I referred a case to the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, of a very frail lady in her 90s who has been brought to my attention by World Jewish Relief. She is in Warsaw and, as I say, she is very frail. Will the Minister please return to his department and make sure that her case is expedited? Her granddaughter is a UK citizen. She clearly qualifies to come to the United Kingdom. She is very frail, and she is an example of many others in that situation. Can we make sure that, in this case, the Home Office is not proving to be the kind of block that it has been over Afghan refugees?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I am not familiar with the case the noble Baroness describes, but I assure her that I will convey her message back to both the Foreign Office and the Home Office. We will do whatever we can.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, in Ukraine, there are a number of orphanages where there are helpless children, who cannot do anything for themselves. Could the noble Lord assure the House that thought will be given to how we can protect these children, who have the least in the world?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a hugely important point. The answer is yes: this is something that both the Home Office and the Foreign Office are looking at. I would add that the UK has committed an additional £120 million of humanitarian assistance to Ukraine and the region. That money will be used in many different ways, but particularly in supporting those at the front line in terms of vulnerability, of the sort that the noble Lord just mentioned.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government were prepared to disclose the figure of 50 refugees received from Ukraine. What is the current figure?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, it is a very fast-moving situation. I do not know the current figure, but I do know that there is no limit to the number of people this country is willing and able to absorb, as I described when outlining the policy just a few moments ago.

[Lord Brownlow of Shurlock Row (Con)]

My Lords, there was a moving interview on the television this morning of a 25 year-old who has bought a bus and is going to Ukraine to bring orphans back and move people around. Could the Minister tell me what support the Government will give to such people, who are going into this danger zone of their own accord?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, as I said, we are creating pockets of expertise in countries surrounding Ukraine, specifically to help them deal with the escalating problem of people fleeing Ukraine. Without knowing the details of the case my noble friend described, I imagine that the occupants of that bus would be exactly the kind of people those experts are there to support.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the compact is from 2019, so we have had three years that the international community should be addressing. One of the things the International Rescue Committee has highlighted is that women and girls are being left behind in the global effort towards the ambitions of that compact. Can the Minister tell us what we are doing to deal with the disadvantages they face in terms of justice, inclusion and safety so that we respond properly? In particular, how is he addressing this issue in the context of Ukraine?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, stepping back and looking at the UK’s contribution to tackling human migration, a problem that has become dramatically worse in the last few days, we are one of the largest bilateral humanitarian donors globally. Since 2015, we have provided over £11 billion in humanitarian funding to support the most vulnerable people, including of course a huge focus on women and girls. This year, despite the cuts that have been questioned many times in this House, we are on track to spend £900 million on humanitarian aid. Despite us being the sixth-biggest economy in the world, that represents about the third or fourth-largest contribution of any country.

Single-Use Plastics

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ban (1) the sale of single use plastics, and (2) other single use materials.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, where evidence supports the case for a ban we will act, as we have with a number of plastic items—straws, stirrers, cotton buds—and as we plan to do on further single-use plastic items. The Environment Act enables us to introduce a range of other measures to tackle single-use items, including a deposit-return scheme for drinks containers, extended producer responsibility schemes and charges on any single-use items, regardless of material.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but why are the Government insisting on consulting on every plastic single-use item separately, when the damage to the environment is well known? We have just finished the consultation on plates, cutlery, and balloon sticks, then there is a longer drawn-out process to consult on wet wipes and plastic cups, and I am sure that there will then be a further delay, then a few more items will be investigated. We gave the Government powers in the Environment Act to introduce a comprehensive ban on polluting single-use items, so why are they not dealing with this on a comprehensive basis? It would be hugely popular. Why must it be done item by item over such a long time?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I very much share the frustrations of the noble Baroness about how long some of these things take, but it is worth pointing out that, as she says, we now have the power to ban products which cause environmental pollution and are harmful to human or animal health and harmful to nature more broadly. The bans that have already been introduced, on plastic bags, for example, resulted in a 95% reduction in sales. Straws, stirrers and cotton buds have reduced by similar amounts and there are many more products in the pipeline where the UK Government are very likely to be introducing the necessary bans.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend and the Government on going as far as they have. Is part of the difficulty the confusion over the different types of plastics? On 4 March, the Government produced a press release on post-consumer plastic, which includes household plastic and other uses. Would it not be better for this to be disposed of through issues such as energy from waste, so that we were dealing with two problems at the same time: disposing of plastics and feeding into energy for households to use locally?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, our approach must put the main emphasis on reducing the amount of plastic being created in the first place. There are vast numbers of items that are made of single-use plastic where there is no justification for doing so, especially since we know that the vast majority of them will end up in the environment or managed inappropriately. This must be the focus, but my noble friend makes an important point.

[Viscount Colville of Culross (CB)]

My Lords, the Government’s resources and waste strategy is to eliminate all avoidable plastic waste by 2042, which is laudable but far in the future. The plastics pact for businesses and NGOs has called on all plastics packaging to be reusable, recyclable or compostable by 2025. Will the Minister support this more immediate target for eliminating plastic pollution?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I warmly welcome the work that the pact has done and very much support its ambition. Just a few days ago, the member states of the United Nations Environment Assembly agreed to a historic deal whereby we will now be creating a global treaty to tackle plastic pollution. The UK has championed this for a long time. We co-sponsored the resolution, and the aspiration is for this new treaty to become for plastic what the Montreal protocol was in relation to the ozone layer.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, while it is important to reduce the production of single-use items, there are some which, for health and safety reasons, should be excluded. These include hypodermic needles, medical and cleaning gloves, and medical dust respirators. However, there are others which could be targeted, such as disposable nappies. What are the Government doing to promote the use of washable, reusable nappies?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, there is a whole range of plastics, not least disposable nappies, where work must be done. We are currently taking advice in relation to wet wipes, single-use coffee cups, and cigarette filters, almost all of which are made of plastics, although as a smoker, I use biodegradable paper filters; they are just as good and you can drop them on the ground without feeling too bad—or, indeed, you could stop smoking. All these items, and there are others, are within the range of what the Government are looking at in relation to the action that we will be taking in the coming months.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be pleased that the Scottish Parliament passed legislation banning an extensive list of single-use plastics from being supplied and manufactured in Scotland, which is due to come into force on 1 June this year. Of course, the problem is that, because there is no similar ban in any other part of the United Kingdom, if these items are manufactured, imported or sold in any other part of the UK, they can be supplied in Scotland because of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020. That is likely to happen, and it will undermine the Scottish decision. Not even Northern Ireland, which should be subject to EU regulations because of the Northern Ireland protocol, has implemented this ban. Was it intended that the United Kingdom Internal Market Act would put a cap on the ecological ambitions of the devolved Administrations, or is this an accident? If it is an accident, can we do something about it, please?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I am not convinced that the argument follows. We are among the most ambitious countries in the world in terms of where we are heading in relation to single-use plastics. The European Union is also putting a lot of emphasis on reducing unnecessary single-use plastics, as is Scotland. We may be operating in different ways, implementing different rules and using different tools, but we are heading in the same direction, and there is no doubt in my mind that we are moving to an era where the casual use of single-use plastic is coming to an end.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Do the Government intend to have an initiative with the NHS over the use of plastics, given that it is has been estimated that 133,000 tonnes of waste plastic are produced by the NHS each year, which make up 22.7% of its total waste? Some plastics are important for infection control, yet 13.7% of all this waste is plastic film, often used just in packaging, so the approach across the whole NHS needs to be different from that across other aspects of society.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. Single-use plastics that are necessary within the context of delivery of health services are well known and, clearly, they would not be caught up in the measures that the Government are introducing. Beyond those specific items, the same rules would apply in relation to the NHS. I welcome our gradual abandonment of the use of disposable face masks for even the most ludicrous events. The numbers of face masks abandoned around the world defy belief and have come to dwarf some of the plastic pollution caused by things such as stirrers, straws and balloons that we are all obsessed by. I warmly welcome the world gradually dropping the theatrics in relation to those masks.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, building on the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, about the powers under the Environment Act, the Secretary of State, George Eustice, has said,

“it’s time we left our throwaway culture behind”.

With that in mind and, noting that the Refill Coalition is bringing in plans to replace plastic—or indeed any—containers for washing-up liquid, laundry liquid, shampoo, hand wash, pasta, rice, cereal, seeds, grains, nuts and dried fruits, will the Government consult on every one of those kinds of packaging, or will they simply tell industry and retailers that this has to end by a certain, reasonable date in line with the UN Environment Programme proposals, so that they can have the certainty to plan for that future?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The problem with government is that, sometimes, you cannot just undermine a sector in a way that has a dramatic impact on its business model without offering the necessary respect that comes with a consultation and having thought through the policy properly. Simply banning these items, which, of course, is where I want to end up, would have a massive impact on a number of different businesses. It is right that the Government should tread carefully when it comes to making decisions which impact so directly people’s business models.