Climate Change: COP 26

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for contributing to this debate on the outcome of COP 26, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Young, who gave an excellent opening speech providing valuable context. I also thank her for her kind words.

COP 26 brought together 120 world leaders and more than 38,000 representatives from Governments, civil society, business and youth. It was the biggest summit that we have ever hosted in this country. In many respects, it was also the most important. The backdrop could not have been clearer. As the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change said in its report this year, it is code red for the climate. The final COP 26 text follows two years of intense diplomacy and campaigning by the UK presidency. Climate negotiators ended two weeks of intense talks on Saturday with a consensus on urgently accelerating climate action.

As COP 26 president, our overarching goal was to keep alive the possibility of keeping global temperatures within 1.5 degrees to ensure much greater support for countries to adapt to what we know will be inevitable changes, even if we stay within 1.5 degrees, and to ramp up the availability of finance, in particular for small island developing states but for climate vulnerable nations generally, and to put nature at the heart of our global response to climate change. That was particularly important given how marginal nature has always been to this issue, a point made well by the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate.

Although a gap remains between where we are and where we need to be, as many speakers today have pointed out, there can be no doubt that we narrowed that gap considerably further than anyone had predicted and that we have indeed kept alive the possibility of keeping global warming within 1.5 degrees. Therefore, I share that cautious optimism that was expressed by a number of speakers, including the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and my noble friends Lady Bottomley and Lord Bridges.

We have seen significant and meaningful progress with net-zero commitments in the final negotiated text, which was agreed by all 197 parties, and on protecting and restoring the natural world. We have also, critically, seen action from countries and the private sector, particularly around coal, cars, cash and trees, to drive down emissions this decade. However, none of this will count for anything unless we continue to ramp up ambition and until and unless promises are kept in full, which will be our priority in this year, while we continue to hold the presidency.

To limit temperature rises to 1.5 degrees, we know we must secure global net zero by the middle of the century and halve global emissions by 2030. With all the additional country commitments that we secured in the run up to and at COP, 90% of the global economy is now covered by net-zero commitments, which is up from 30% when the UK took on the presidency in 2019. While long-term strategies are obviously key, we know we need urgent ambition this decade. That is why we have consistently called for all countries to submit ambitious 2030 commitments that put us on a path to global net zero.

It is sometimes said by commentators that our efforts in the UK are pointless if China and other similar countries continue to ramp up their coal use. That misses the point that we have now seen significant commitments from countries, including new 2030 commitments from Brazil, China and India. China has already committed to peak its carbon emissions before 2030, achieve climate neutrality before 2060 and end overseas coal financing this year. We will always be asking for more, but it would be wrong to pretend that this is not very serious progress. India, too, has committed to net zero for the first time and announced ambitious plans for half its electricity capacity to come from renewables by 2030. A total of 154 parties have now submitted nationally determined contributions to date, representing around 80% of global emissions. This is real progress, but we must see more from the remaining parties and improved NDCs when countries come back for COP 27, to be hosted next year in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.

The UK has led by example. We were the first major economy to commit to net zero in law and to reducing carbon emissions by 78% in 2035. We will completely phase out coal power in 2024, and we are also ending the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2030. We have also set out our commitment to increase our international climate finance by a further £1 billion on top of the £11.6 billion that we had already committed to in climate and nature finance, at least £3 billion of which will be invested in nature-based solutions to climate change. The UK and the science have been clear that phasing out unabated coal power is the single most important step to keeping 1.5 degrees within reach. At COP, we saw 65 countries commit to coal phase out, including four of the world’s top 20 coal-power generating countries.

All major coal-financing countries have now committed to ending international coal finance by the end of 2021, with $20 billion in funding to support the coal-to-clean-power transition announced at COP 26. I note the comment of the noble Lord, Lord Oates, who feels that the Prime Minister may have exaggerated the success in relation to coal, so rather than quote him, I will quote the Executive Director of Greenpeace:

“a signal has been sent that the era of coal is ending. And that matters.”

We have also taken a big bite out of international public financing for oil and gas, with almost 40 countries, including all of western Europe, the USA and Canada, following the UK’s lead earlier this year in ending overseas public financing for all unabated fossil fuels. This will free more than $24 billion a year that could now flow towards clean energy.

The new global green grids initiative—One Sun One World One Grid—launched by the UK and India, and backed by more than 80 countries, will also further accelerate the development of interconnected electricity grids across continents, countries and communities. We saw a partnership of the UK, US, France, Germany and the EU to launch a just energy transition partnership with South Africa, backed by an initial $8.5 billion to enable decarbonisation and the just energy transition in South Africa. These sorts of partnerships will be critical as countries kick-start their transitions away from fossil fuels. With support from the UK presidency, more than 100 countries which are responsible for just under half of all methane emissions have joined the global methane pledge to cut methane emissions by 30% by 2030. This includes six of the top 10 methane emitters.

I note the comments by my noble friend Lord Howell about the energy transition currently being proposed. However, it is not a transition that is being proposed; it is a transition that is already well under way, irrespective of the politics. That is illustrated by the fact that coal use fell faster under President Trump, who lavished public money trying to keep it alive, than it did under President Obama before him. More money now flows into new renewable capacity year on year than flows into fossil fuels, so this transition is happening.

On cars, we worked to build consensus on the pace of the transition to zero-emission vehicles. At COP 26, the UK co-ordinated a joint statement in which signatories committed to work towards all new car sales being zero emission by 2040 globally and by 2035 in leading markets. That was backed by more than 30 countries, together with six major manufacturers—GM, Ford, Mercedes, Volvo, JLR and BYD—28 fleet owners, 13 investors and 41 cities, states, and regions from all over the world. Around one-third of the global car market is now covered by manufacturer commitments to phase out polluting vehicles, up from close to zero at the start of this year. Domestically, the UK has also committed to ending the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2030. From 2035, all new cars and vans must be zero emission at the tailpipe. Phasing out the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2030 will put the UK on course to be the G7 country that will decarbonise cars and vans the fastest.

I note the comments by the noble Lord, Lord Birt, regarding the difficulties with charging. When I first bought an electric car, I found myself stranded in the first week, which was at the time a very significant put-off. However, on the back of the commitments that have been made and the signals being sent to buyers and car manufacturers and between government and the private sector, that infrastructure will continue to be rolled out, and faster.

More public and private finance has been committed to support climate action in developing countries than ever before, and the global financial system is finally aligning behind a net-zero, resilient world, as a number of speakers mentioned. In fact, under the UK’s presidency, 95% of the largest developed-country climate finance providers made new, forward-looking commitments.

The $100 billion finance goal, referenced by a number of noble Lords, not least the noble Baroness, Lady Young, will be met by developed countries. It is late; we know that. We have not got there fast enough. We have tried, but we have made progress and we will continue to push countries to go faster. Climate finance is now expected to increase to between $113 billion and $117 billion in 2025, compared with around $80 billion in 2019. It is now likely that $500 billion will be mobilised over the period 2021-25. This means more money for developing countries, which is critical as they decarbonise and adapt to the impacts of climate change.

We saw new commitments by the public and private sector to provide scaled-up finance to support developing countries to take climate action and to align trillions of dollars of finance with a net-zero, resilient future. Over 450 private financial institutions, responsible for over $130 trillion in assets, have committed to net zero by 2050 through the GFANZ alliance, which was also mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Young. That is within the UN’s Race to Zero.

On trees, or more accurately on nature, the UK has turned the tide. We delivered at the world leaders’ summit a package of commitments, each one of which is unprecedented and meaningful. Combined, the whole is undoubtedly bigger than the sum of its parts. As Manuel Pulgar-Vidal, the WWF global lead on climate and energy, said:

“Nature truly arrived at COP26.”


Justin Adams from the Tropical Forest Alliance said that the commitments signify

“the biggest moment we’ve had in forests and nature, probably ever.”

He also said:

“What is happening is historic. I think we’ll look back and realise that this was the day when we finally turned the tide on deforestation.”


Forbes described the commitments as a “‘Paris moment’ for forests”. I will explain why I think that is broadly right.

More than 140 countries, including Indonesia, Brazil, and Russia, accounting for over 90% of the world’s forests, committed to halt and reverse forest loss and land degradation by 2030 in the Glasgow leaders’ declaration on forests and land use. Donor countries, combined with philanthropy, committed $20 billion of climate finance. In addition, $1.5 billion was secured to protect the forests of the Congo basin, an area of incalculable beauty and importance. Nearly $2 billion was secured for indigenous people; I will come to that shortly.

However, we know that pledges and finance alone will not be enough. That is why, alongside those finance commitments, we focused on the necessary systemic change. We secured extremely hard-won commitments from all the main multilateral development banks, including the World Bank, which committed to aligning their portfolios not only with Paris but with nature. That alone will have a big impact on the market.

As importantly, we secured a commitment from the world’s biggest buyers of agricultural commodities, including the Chinese-owned COFCO, that their buying policies will be aligned with 1.5 degrees and our overall deforestation goals. It is hard to exaggerate the potency of that signal to some of the more reluctant forest countries, which we simply were not going to get over the line but succeeded in doing so because of that commitment from the commodity buyers. In addition to all that, we secured commitments from financial institutions with nearly $9 trillion in assets that they too will align their portfolios with the same deforestation goals. While I commend the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Exeter on his excellent maiden speech, I also thank the Church of England through him for its leadership on this issue, because on many of the commitments I just described we were helped significantly through working with, among others, its representatives. I heap praise on that institution.

I mentioned support for indigenous communities, and that is key. They have protected the world’s forests for generations, often in the face of serious threats to their lives, but their status in their lands is uncertain. In addition to the well-understood and very obvious issues of justice, there can be no better—and probably no cheaper—way to protect large areas of intact forest than by supporting those who have been looking after them for so long. The new finance that has been committed will be focused largely on issues of land tenure and will have a major impact. As one indigenous leader at COP said, “We have protected 80% of the world’s forest biodiversity without any support at all; can you imagine what we will do with that support?” Tuntiak Katan, the co-ordinator of the Global Alliance of Territorial Communities, said:

“After attending these climate events for years, this one is different. The UK has put tremendous effort into raising our visibility at this COP.”


The noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, rightly pointed to next year’s CBD COP 15. It is the next big opportunity and the next big step. We will do everything we can to build on what was secured on nature in this COP to maximise the chance of an even more ambitious COP 15. We are not the hosts, but I can absolutely commit that the UK is bracing and ratcheting up every tool we have to make the biggest possible impact on that.

One area that has long been contentious, which has been raised by a number of people, including the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, is the issue of loss and damage. We know that even if we keep warming to 1.5 degrees, the world will change and the most vulnerable countries, particular small island states, will be very badly affected. Indeed, they are already being affected. This is an existential issue for them. What makes it worse in a sense is that, in addition to being those hit hardest, they tend on the whole to have the most progressive climate policies and are very forward-leading. That means that, when they speak, they have huge moral authority.

It is welcome then that, within the Glasgow climate pact, countries agreed to double their climate finance for efforts to cope and adapt to climate change impacts. Although we did not secure what was rightly demanded on loss and damage, the Glasgow countries agreed to establish the Santiago Network for loss and damage and initiate a dialogue around the financing of these activities. It is our job now as COP president for the next year to ensure that that dialogue leads to something. We have also worked hard to improve access to finance for the most vulnerable, including the small island developing states, by launching some months ago the access to finance taskforce with Fiji, which has already yielded results, not least in the manner in which some of the multilateral development banks make finance available to those vulnerable countries.

COP 26 delivered in multiple other ways. We saw major commitments from countries to put climate change at the centre of national curriculums. We secured commitments from Governments to put women at the heart of their climate policies and actions. We saw bold commitments from city mayors around the world. Some of the greatest climate leaders are city administrations.

The point about accreditation made by the noble Baronesses, Lady Boycott and Lady Bennett, is a very good one. There were a lot of oil company representatives at COP, but that is not the fault of the UK Government. We have no control over accreditation at all. I suspect that if we had had that role, we would have had a far better gender balance and we certainly would not have had as many oil procurers and sellers dominating the halls of the conference. Throughout our presidency, we have been extremely resistant to the kind of lobbying that might result in us wanting to water down our ambitions for COP or what we do domestically.

I turn finally to the text agreed at COP, where negotiators from 197 parties reached agreement on a range of key issues. In a historic first, COP 26 agreed the Glasgow-Sharm el-Sheikh work programme on the global goal on adaptation and the Glasgow dialogue on loss and damage to better co-ordinate financial support. Crucially, they delivered on leaders’ calls to accelerate climate action this decade, a point also made well by the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott. That means that we have an incredibly powerful ratchet mechanism. We can push and push to get countries to ramp up their ambition over this coming year—not in 50 years, but now. We will absolutely need our COP unit, led by the brilliant Alok Sharma and his brilliant team, to be fully resourced to do that.

The Paris rulebook—the guidelines for how the Paris Agreement is implemented—was finally agreed. That includes agreement on transparency processes that will hold countries to account.

We have seen real progress on the agreements reached around Article 6, but I will not have time to go into that now, other than to say that this creates an opportunity where we can have high-integrity carbon markets at supply and demand. That should unleash very large sums of money to protect the world’s forests, if done properly.

COP 26 is a historic moment. I have no doubt about that. The gap in ambition has narrowed. We now have net-zero commitments for over 90% of the world’s economy —up from 30% two years ago—and 1.5 degrees is alive. There is a huge and clear recognition now—indeed, we have won the argument—that we cannot achieve a solution to climate change, or indeed many other issues, without massive support for nature. All this relies on commitments being honoured in full by all countries. As we hold the presidency for the year, we will do absolutely everything we can to make sure that those commitments are indeed honoured in full.

I will use the remaining seconds I have to echo the remarks of many noble Lords and heap thanks on Alok Sharma. He did a magnificent job. I think he worked almost more hours than there are in a day and his team supported him extremely well. In anyone else’s hands, COP would not have delivered the kind of results it did. No one is going to pretend that we delivered enough, but we certainly delivered more than was anticipated in these difficult times and much of that is down to his hard work. He was supported all the way through by our Prime Minister, Boris Johnson.

Nagorno-Karabakh

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 15th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Cox]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of (1) reports of violations of the Nagorno-Karabakh ceasefire agreement by the government of Azerbaijan, and (2) the number of Armenian military and civilian personnel who have yet to be released by the government of Azerbaijan.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister for Europe and Americas has repeatedly highlighted the need for both countries to avoid provocative actions. She has also raised the long-standing issues of prisoners of war, detainees and the missing or deceased in calls with both Azerbaijani Foreign Minister Bayramov and Armenian Foreign Minister Mirzoyan. We urge both Governments to engage in substantive negotiations to settle all matters relating to the conflict.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, but the impunity enjoyed by Azerbaijan has encouraged continuing violations of the ceasefire agreement by Azerbaijan. As Azeri forces continue to advance into Armenian territories, a few weeks ago I visited a village, Davit Bek, in Syunik province, and witnessed the suffering of the Armenian people there. Azerbaijan also refuses to release Armenian prisoners, subjecting many to torture and killing. What will Her Majesty’s Government do to require Azerbaijan to stop violations of the ceasefire agreement and of human rights?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has engaged very actively both during and after the conflict. The Minister for Europe and Americas, Wendy Morton, speaks regularly with her counterparts in both countries. She continuously urges de-escalation and a return to the negotiating table under the auspices of the OSCE Minsk Group, and she has condemned the alleged war crimes, including the deliberate shelling of civilian areas, videos purportedly showing beheadings of soldiers, and alleged deliberate use of white phosphorus against civilians. The allegations come from both sides in this conflict.

[The Lord Bishop of Coventry]

My Lords, in June, I visited the border inclusion area of Syunik province, at an earlier stage than the noble Baroness, Lady Cox. In Khoznavar, the incursion had cut off the nearby village from its main water source, and access to grazing land had been denied, threatening the survival of this poverty-stricken village. Following my letters of 7 July to the Foreign Secretary and of 5 November to the Minister for Europe and Americas, what further steps are Her Majesty’s Government taking to challenge those illegal incursions, to ensure the integrity of Armenia’s borders and to press for the withdrawal of Azerbaijani troops according to the terms of the November 2020 ceasefire?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK notes the ceasefire agreement reached in November last year. Both countries had to make difficult decisions to secure stability and peace, and it is important that remaining issues relating to the conflict are resolved through negotiation. In particular, the OSCE Minsk Group is the obvious and key forum for this, facilitated by France, Russia and the US. The UK is not a formal member of the OSCE but we continue to support its efforts to negotiate a permanent and sustainable settlement.

[Lord Risby (Con)]

My Lords, for years, one of the major causes of tension and violence has been the lack of a clear and mutually acceptable demarcation of the international border. Although the border agencies of both Armenia and Azerbaijan are now in contact, given our close connections in the region, have we considered assisting or promoting this vital process, which is essentially technical, on the basis of clear international principles?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, as I said, the UK supports the OSCE Minsk Group process and, alongside that, the basic principles. Last updated in 2009, these include a return of the occupied territories and the acceptance of a free expression of will on the status of the Nagorno-Karabakh region.

[Lord Kilclooney (CB)]

My Lords, I just returned at the weekend from a visit to Karabakh, where I saw thousands—yes, thousands—of homes which had been demolished or vandalised by the occupying troops over the last 30 years. First, can the Government now confirm that they recognise that Karabakh is part of Azerbaijan? Secondly, were all the Armenian prisoners of war captured before the ceasefire released by Azerbaijan? Thirdly and finally, have either the Russian peace observers, whom I saw, or the Minsk Group reported any breach of the ceasefire by Azerbaijan, and will Her Majesty’s Government continue to encourage UK investment in Azerbaijan, including Karabakh, now that it has been liberated?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I will not repeat the last answer, relating to recognition of the Nagorno-Karabakh region, but in relation to the ongoing conflict, the UK Government continue to raise at every opportunity the critical importance of settling all matters related to the conflict, in particular last year’s conflict, with the Armenian and Azerbaijani Governments. That includes, for example, the return of all prisoners and the remains of the deceased, which has been a particular focus of the Minister for Europe and Americas, Wendy Morton, who has raised this repeatedly with her counterparts.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, on the first anniversary of the ceasefire, the US State Department statement, as well as listing all of the humanitarian issues that are supported by allegations on both sides of this—the Minister has referred to almost all of them—expressly called for an investigation into alleged human rights abuses and violations of international humanitarian law. Do the Government support that call and, if so, have they discussed it with the United States, and how do they intend to advance this really important initiative?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK Government are of course aware of allegations that war crimes were committed by both sides during last year’s conflict. There is credible evidence for that. My colleague Wendy Morton, Minister for Europe and Americas, has raised this issue with both Governments, and she has urged that those allegations be thoroughly investigated. Where we can, we support the trilateral OSCE on a regular basis.

[Lord Flight (Con)]

My Lords, Azerbaijan has handed over, bona fides, Armenian POWs who had been detained during the course of hostilities, but the cessation of hostilities provides huge opportunities to reopen transportation and communication routes between Azerbaijan, Armenia and the Zangezur corridor. Once fully operational, this could provide inter-and transregional trade and economic connections, bringing significant benefits for Armenia’s own economic development. Will HMG consider encouraging the Armenian Government to seize this opportunity to ensure that the transport corridor is reopened?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. Of course, we continuously urge both the Armenian Government and the Azerbaijani Government to honour in full the agreement reached last year. That is why our support for the OSCE Minsk Group is also important: the opportunities for both countries in a lasting settlement are enormous, as he rightly says.

[Lord Hussain (LD)]

My Lords, what representations do the UK Government intend to make to the Government of Armenia to encourage the latter to fulfil its obligations under the 10 November bilateral ceasefire agreement—specifically to fully withdraw its troops from the Azerbaijan Nagorno-Karabakh region, where the Russian peacekeepers are currently stationed, and to reverse its lack of co-operation with Azerbaijan in helping with the opening of communication and transportation routes?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The UK Government have not made a full assessment of the impacts of the Russian peacekeeping efforts, but this is an area that my colleagues in the other House keep under regular review.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

My Lords, will the Minister make urgent representation to the Government of Azerbaijan to allow UNESCO to investigate all Armenian cultural and religious sites to ensure their physical preservation, and to guarantee the rights of Armenian clergy and religious communities to continue to run and live in them?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The Government strongly support the noble Baroness’s appeal for full access and full transparency, in relation both to cultural heritage and the allegations that have been made, and to the International Committee of the Red Cross, which does not currently have full access to all prisoners of war. That is something that we are pushing hard for.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, six months ago, I raised with the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, the fact that Russia had taken significant control over the administration of Nagorno-Karabakh. Last week, a Russian news agency suggested that the Armenian President wanted the Russian army to remain for good. What assessment has his department made of this move, and what impact will it have on security in the region?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

As I said, the UK has not yet made a full assessment of the deployment of the Russian peacekeepers, but deployment of peacekeepers clearly has to have the support of both parties to the conflict, or the aims become almost impossible to achieve.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.

Charities: Landmines

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 15th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to provide funds to charities based in the United Kingdom that work to remove landmines and dismantle improvised explosive devices in other countries.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, over the next three years, the UK’s demining work will continue to save lives, limbs and livelihoods across the world, supporting those most in need and delivering our treaty commitments. The Global Mine Action Programme 3, due to begin in 2022, will involve landmine clearance and risk education to help affected communities keep safe, and capacity development to help national authorities manage their landmine contamination. We are currently working towards finalising funding and country allocations for this programme.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as an ambassador for HALO, which has an agreement with the Taliban to continue to carry out mine and IED clearance in Afghanistan. It employs 2,500 locally engaged staff with financial support from Germany and the United States for this work. However, there is no support from the United Kingdom. Why not?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, in Afghanistan, since 2018, the FCDO’s funding to UNMAS has cleared landmines and unexploded ordnance in 27.2 square kilometres of land. It has released a further 211 square kilometres of land by assessing it as no longer being dangerous. That has directly benefited nearly 1.5 million people. UNMAS has also delivered landmine-risk education to at least 1.2 million people, including more than 450,000 women and girls. The UK has a long track record in Afghanistan.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, a long time ago, back in 1982, while the Argentinians had a short occupation of the Falkland Islands, they laid a number of landmines there. These were mostly still there when we retook the islands a few months later. What is the present position? Is everything now safe?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. I shall have to write to him with an answer on the current assessment.

[Lord McDonald of Salford (CB)]

My Lords, in September, the United Kingdom assumed the presidency of the Convention on Cluster Munitions. Since then, the FCDO has removed funding for mine-clearance operations in Vietnam, South Sudan and Zimbabwe, some of the countries worst blighted by cluster munitions and landmines. Will the Minister explain how this decision will help the UK achieve its objective of the universal application of the convention? From outside, it looks as though we are failing to put our money where our mouth is.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord is right that the funding has currently been reduced in relation to demining. The Global Mine Action Programme, which I mentioned earlier, will begin next year. We are reviewing funding and country allocations and hope to be able to share our plans for the programme in due course.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, further to the last question, is not the truth that the cut in our support for clearing landmines, cluster bombs and cluster munitions will result in thousands of people either being killed or having their legs blown off? How can we justify such a cut?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has invested really significant sums; it is one of the most generous countries in the world when it comes to funding demining. We have saved, as a consequence of taxpayers’ contributions to programmes backed by the Foreign Office, the lives of many, many hundreds of thousands of people. As I said, the FCDO recognises how critical this work is. That is why we are reviewing the decisions that were made: we are reviewing funding and country allocations and we will come back with details as soon as possible.

[Lord Oates (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chair of the Zimbabwe APPG. I may be able to help the Minister with the answer to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne. Last year, landmine clearance in the Falkland Islands was completed, with Minister Wendy Morton paying particular tribute to the brilliant contribution of the team of Zimbabwean deminers. In the context of this assistance, does the Minister recognise that it is absolutely unacceptable for the Government to cut entirely our mine-action funding to Zimbabwe, which has some of the densest and most dangerous minefields in the world? Will he review this decision and restore funding so that Zimbabwe can meet its goal of being landmine-free by 2025, and will he meet me to discuss this matter?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, as I said in answer to the previous two questions, we are reviewing the funding decisions. We are reviewing country allocations and we will come back with figures when we can. No one disputes the importance of this work to people’s lives and to the stability of countries. Yes, I would be very happy to meet the noble Lord.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I think it is worth repeating this really important point so that the Minister hears: there has been a 75% cut in our landmine clearance work. That will result in deaths. While the Minister is waiting for another nine months, many children and women will be killed as a consequence of this action. It is no good talking about the past; it is the future we are concerned about. Will he, therefore, go back to his department and say, “Restore these cuts now”?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the department is currently—not in nine months—reviewing funding decisions in relation to demining. As I said, none of my ministerial colleagues and no one in the foreign office disputes the importance of this work. Every penny that we put into this programme is a penny that will contribute to saving lives and we are very aware of that.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

My Lords, as a qualified bomb disposal officer, this is an area in which I have some experience. I confirm that it is difficult, dangerous and challenging work, and often poorly paid. The HALO Trust is an exemplar, offering a five-week training package. I witnessed its people finishing clearing the Falkland Islands back in 2019. What assurances has the department put in place to ensure that all charities offer appropriate training packages for their workers and—crucially, should the worst happen—appropriate insurance and compensation packages for their workers as well?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question and for his work in this area. All FCDO contracts and NGOs are held to the highest standards. GMAP 2 partner organisations have robust training and monitoring processes in place to ensure the safety of their staff and of the beneficiaries. The FCDO conducts due-diligence assurance checks on all areas of their work, including staff training and safeguarding before any funding is released.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, in April 2017 the then International Development Secretary, Priti Patel, standing alongside Prince Harry at a Landmine Free 2025 event, announced the UK’s funding commitment and said of humanitarian demining:

“Global Britain has a historic role in tackling the indiscriminate and lethal legacy of landmines … We have a moral duty to act - and it is in our national interest to act.”

Until we discharge that moral duty and until it is no longer in our interests, we should not reduce our investment in either of them by one penny.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK remains a leading donor in this sector, notwithstanding the recent cuts, and our demining work will continue to save lives. We are committed to all of our international treaty obligations. We are finalising our plans for GMAP3—the global mine action programme. As I said a few times, we will release details as soon as we can.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, it has been only in the last few weeks that NGOs have heard that the cuts they will face will be between 75% and 80%, so I welcome the confirmation from my noble friend the Minister that this is being reviewed. Could he tell me when this review will be completed and assure the House that we will be informed of its findings?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I will have to get back to her in writing when I have a date that I can share.

[Lord Jones of Cheltenham (LD) [V]]

The Indo-Pacific is a region that is heavily contaminated with landmines and unexploded bombs, and is set to lose UK funding despite the Government’s ambition to strengthen their relations and influence there. In fact, Vietnam will no longer receive any funding at all. What assessment has been made of the impact this will have on UK relations in this region? Will the Government commit today to reinstate Vietnam’s funding to rid that country of its dreadful mine legacy?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The legacy in Vietnam of live mines that are still in place is appalling, of course. I know that our funding has been valued by the Vietnamese Government and the Vietnamese people, and has helped to support wider diplomatic objectives. I cannot make any commitments on funding today, other than to say that those decisions that were recently made are being reviewed. I hope they will be reviewed as quickly as possible and that we will be able to continue the work that this House is rightly proud of.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, some 15 years ago I was chairman of the Halo Trust, which has been mentioned, and a very good organisation it was too. I was also on the DfID Select Committee for some six years. I have seen that not all international aid from Britain is well spent: a lot of it ends up in overseas bank accounts, fast cars and weaponry. However, the Halo Trust got the money and spent it on exactly what it said it would. I plead with my noble friend, when the Government review it, to look at what is achieved. I saw the Halo Trust achieving fantastic things around the world.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord is right. There will never be enough public money to resolve the various issues we are committed to help resolve around the world—this being an important one, but just one. It is incumbent on us to ensure that, when we invest money, it is invested as well as it can be. The point he makes about the Halo Trust is a view that I know is shared by colleagues in the Foreign Office. I will convey his words back to colleagues.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked, and we now move to the next Question.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 15th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to secure the release and return to the United Kingdom of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, it is unacceptable and unjustifiable that Iran has chosen to continue with this second, wholly arbitrary case against Nazanin. Iran has put her through an inhumane ordeal. We continue to call on Iran in the strongest possible terms to allow her to return to the UK to be reunited with her family. The Prime Minister raised her situation with former President Rouhani, and the Foreign Secretary continues to engage with Foreign Minister Amir-Abdollahian, most recently on 8 November.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, first, I commend the bravery of Richard Ratcliffe—

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

—in his determination to get his wife home safe. We understand why he ended his hunger strike, and it was right for him to do so.

Will the Minister now confirm that there is no doubt whatever that the United Kingdom Government owe Iran £400 million for tanks the Iranian Government paid for but which were never supplied? Secondly, when the Prime Minister was Foreign Secretary, he pledged that that debt would be paid, and it is further acknowledged that when it is paid, Nazanin will be released. Can the Minister therefore use his undoubted influence with the Prime Minister to get him to make it his top priority to resolve this issue and get Nazanin released and returned home to her husband and daughter, because it is the Prime Minister’s moral duty to do so?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

Like the noble Lord, I recognise the commitment and huge sacrifice that has been shown by Mr Ratcliffe and the families of other British detainees in seeking the release and return of their loved ones detained in Iran. We continue to call on Iran to end Nazanin’s suffering immediately and to allow her to return home to her family in the UK. But I need to be clear, in the place of my colleague and noble friend Lord Ahmad, who is not here to answer the Question, that the UK does not and never will accept our dual nationals being used as diplomatic leverage. Our priority is securing Nazanin’s immediate release so that she can be reunited with her family.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

While it is absolutely right that the dreadful detention of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe should be kept totally separate from other issues in the relationship with the Iranian Government, will my noble friend explain the delays in the payment of the proper debt for the Chieftain tanks that were never delivered? It seems to me a straightforward matter, entirely separate from this horrible detention issue, which surely could be settled, and settled fast. Can he explain what the delay is because we do not understand?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

As we have said—I know my colleague has said this many times from this Dispatch Box—we are actively exploring the options to resolve this case, but it is not helpful in any way to connect wider bilateral issues with those arbitrarily detained in Iran. It remains in Iran’s gift to do the right thing and to allow British dual nationals home to be reunited with their families.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I have met Richard Ratcliffe and I associate myself and colleagues who have met him with the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes. In May, the Foreign Secretary said that the treatment of Nazanin amounts to torture. There is no point in a British Government making clear assertions on the contravention of a UN convention if they do not follow through with any actions. When I asked the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, why the Government had not formally requested that Iran investigate the accusation of torture, he said that he would ensure that it was in the Foreign Secretary’s briefing pack when she met Richard. Why have the Government not formally requested that Iran act on the convention which it is duty bound to carry through?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, no one disputes that Iran’s treatment of Nazanin and others in similar circumstances is inhumane and cruel, exceeds any normal boundaries of behaviour by a state and is completely unacceptable, but I cannot add more to what my colleague the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, said in answer to the same question just a few weeks ago.

[Lord Judge (CB)]

Do we owe money to Iran? If we do, why has it not been paid?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the IMS payment is a long-standing case relating to a historic debt owed to pre-revolution Iran. We continue to explore options, as I said before, to resolve this case.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I draw the attention of the House to my interests as set out in the register. I totally support what the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, said. The behaviour of the Iranian Government in this affair is disgraceful, but the Government have not been clear. They have been very ambiguous in answering questions in the House about this issue, including, as was said, in the previous debate in which it was raised. Will the Minister confirm or deny that fear of American sanctions is preventing this money being paid?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, from my vantage point, if I may couch it that way, I am absolutely certain that the premise of the noble Lord’s question and the assumption within it is not correct.

[The Lord Bishop of Coventry]

My Lords, what does the Minister think Governments on both sides might have to learn from a simple prayer that was once prayed on this day in Coventry, after the destruction of the city? It is a simple prayer but a brave one; it simply says: “Father, forgive.” It does not try to forgive the other side, or even to absolve the other side from responsibility, but it does say that, somewhere along the line, both sides, in whatever proportion, need to accept that a very deep hole has been dug and suffering people have fallen into it. In this case, there is a suffering woman at the bottom of the hole, and her husband and child. Can we not do more to accept that there is something we have a responsibility for?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I do not accept, and the Government cannot accept, that we have a responsibility for the incarceration and appalling treatment of Nazanin. This is a decision made by the Government of Iran, and one that they can reverse. Of course, we will, and we continue to, do as much as we possibly can to secure her release. That is why this issue—this appalling case—has been escalated to the highest level, not least in the form of diplomatic protection, which means that it becomes a case between states as opposed to the prior situation.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, many people still do not understand the issue of the £400 million that we owe to Iran; it keeps getting raised. The Americans have paid money to the Iranian Government despite their sanctions. Can the Minister please explain clearly what is going on? Many of us who have met Richard Ratcliffe on his hunger strike outside the Foreign Office have given him an undertaking that we shall continue to press the Government. This will go on and on until the Government do something.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are doing something. We are engaging at the highest possible level; whether it is the Prime Minister or the previous or current Foreign Secretary, engagement happens on a very regular basis. I do not accept the idea that the Government are doing nothing. However, were the Government to pay hundreds of millions of pounds to the Iranian Government, that would undoubtedly be seen as payment for a hostage situation.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

I am very surprised at the Minister’s answers in relation to the £400 million. Does he accept that an international arbitration tribunal—an independent tribunal—has ruled that this country owes £400 million to the state of Iran? Does he accept that? Does he also accept that it is vital that this country complies with its international obligations to meet international arbitration tribunal reports? Does he also accept that to pay that sum without further delay would be to meet our obligations, and not to pay a ransom?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, no one disputes that there is a historic debt, one which was owed to pre-revolutionary Iran. There is no dispute or debate about that. However, here I am answering a Question about Nazanin, yet the majority of questions relate to that money. The combination of that issue with the issue that we are dealing with—an appallingly tragic human case—is exactly what we should be avoiding. Otherwise, this does become a hostage situation and any payment of any money becomes payment for a hostage. That is not in our international current, medium or long-term interests.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

Let us put it a different way. When I met Richard outside the FCDO, he described the policy of the Government as a “policy of waiting”. The Minister has said that they are doing things; well, this House wants to hear precisely what they are doing. One thing this Government should be doing is ensuring that we improve relationships with the Government in Iran—to ensure that all the outstanding issues, including of those who remain in prison, are properly resolved. So what are the Government doing?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The Government certainly want to improve our relationship with Iran. In direct answer to the noble Lord’s questions, we have raised this case at the highest levels of government at every opportunity. The Prime Minister raised it with President Rouhani on 10 March this year. The previous Foreign Secretary engaged regularly with Foreign Minister Zarif. The current Foreign Secretary, who has been in post for only a few weeks, has spoken twice now with her counterpart, most recently just a week and a half ago. Our ambassador and the wider team continue to lobby Iranian interlocutors at every opportunity. They helped to secure the release of Nazanin on furlough and continue to push for a full and permanent release, most recently on 9 November. As I said earlier, escalation in the form of diplomatic protection on 7 March 2019 represented a formal recognition that her treatment breaches Iran’s obligations under international law and raises the status of this case to the highest possible level.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that one of the ambitions of this country is that Iran should adhere to the rule of law? If so, should we not be adhering to the rule of law—and, therefore, will he now give us a very clear “yes” or “no” reply to my noble and learned friend Lord Judge’s very straightforward question, which he has yet to answer?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

Yes, of course, it is in everyone’s interest that Iran as a country adheres to the rule of law, just as the UK does on a routine and permanent basis.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, the Government do have some responsibility for the suffering that Nazanin is experiencing because our Prime Minister told a lie that she was teaching journalism. That meant that the Iranian Government were much more exercised about her presence in Iran when, in fact, she was only there to see her family. Has the Prime Minister shown any remorse?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The Prime Minister continues to engage on this issue with his counterpart, as does the entire FCDO. The Government continue to prioritise this case, as I have relayed to the House, and will continue to do so.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister not accept that the answers that he is giving this afternoon—stonewalling answers—are doing no good to the Government and, most of all, no good to Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe? Can we please accept that this country does owe this money? Can it not be paid immediately to the United Nations? That would be a good way of having it transferred. Can we not have a positive move to get back this poor woman, who has been tortured and incarcerated as an innocent being?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, at the risk of being repetitive, it would be a grave error for this Government to behave as though that historic debt is in any way connected to the incarceration of Nazanin, in the manner in which the noble Lord suggests. It would be disastrous foreign policy.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the problem is that the Iranians regard the two as linked. If we will not accept that, how is the difficulty to be resolved? The Prime Minister made a very foolish intervention; one might think that that increases his moral obligation. If there is any question of the Government being in some way concerned about the attitude of the United States, does anyone here think that the United States would hesitate for a moment if the circumstances were reversed? There is, not least, very strong anecdotal evidence that President Obama did exactly that: release in return for resources.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, if it is the case that Iran conflates these two issues—and I think the noble Lord is right to say that it does—that is even more reason why we should not allow dual nationals to be used as diplomatic leverage.

Brexit: Food, Environment, Energy and Health (European Union Committee Report)

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 15th November 2021 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for securing the debate and to the environment sub-committee members for this excellent report, Beyond Brexit: Food, Environment, Energy and Health. We have had some excellent contributions today and I am grateful to everyone who has taken part. I start by agreeing with the last sentiment put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. It is absolutely in all our interests that we work together, not least for the reasons that the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, cited.

The committee detailed a number of conclusions and recommendations in the report. We considered them in the Government’s published response, and I will try to provide a further update this evening. We were elected, as noble Lords will know, to get Brexit done and we have done that. We are already realising some benefits of our departure from the EU, particularly in relation to the department for which I am speaking today, Defra. We are revolutionising the way that we support farmers—I will come back to that in a second. The goal is to help them to improve the environment and animal health and welfare while reducing carbon dioxide emissions. We have passed the flagship Environment Act—it is wonderful to be able to use that term after nearly 100 hours of debate—which sets the framework for how we will deliver for the environment freed from some of the more burdensome and poorly-targeted EU directives. Freed from the common fisheries policy, we can help our fishing fleet recover and strive to be the most sustainable fleet in the world.

Before I pick up on some of the individual points made in the debate, I will briefly recap on the context of what was achieved with the TCA. It was the first time that the EU had ever agreed a deal with a trading partner based on zero tariffs and zero quotas. It is an agreement based on friendly co-operation between sovereign equals, centred on free trade and inspired by our shared history and values. I am pleased that the committee’s report recognises that many of our sectors benefit from the tariff-free access to the EU market secured by the TCA.

The agreement recognises UK sovereignty over our fishing waters and puts us in a position to rebuild our fishing fleet by regaining control of our waters and delivering increased fishing quotas through annual negotiations with the EU and other coastal states. The agreement means that the UK can now regulate in a way that suits the UK economy and UK businesses, doing things in a more innovative and effective way.

On the environment, it is worth acknowledging that the huge tangle of EU law that exists has not halted the decline in nature. That is not to say that those regulations are without value, many of them do have value, but I think it is a mistake to regard the existing ecosystem of environmental law in the European Union as being effective as a whole. We are now free to really deliver on nature recovery and biodiversity by taking what works and building on the rest, which is what I think the Environment Act seeks to do.

We are ensuring businesses get the support they need to trade effectively with Europe and to seize new opportunities as we strike trade deals with the world’s fastest-growing markets.

The UK and the EU have very similar animal and plant health measures. The Government are committed to maintaining those high standards in biosecurity, food safety and animal welfare. Indeed, it is our intention to go further in many of those areas. We have the freedom now to introduce our own SPS rules based on more up-to-date science, better targeted to manage biosecurity risks and food safety issues specific to the UK and better reflecting UK needs and priorities.

The SPS chapter in the TCA recognises that the UK and EU’s independent SPS controls must be risk based and should not create unnecessary barriers to trade. The Trade Specialised Committee on SPS, which the TCA establishes, is tasked with regularly reviewing the parties’ SPS measures and their application. The chapter allows the UK and the EU to take informed decisions to reduce their respective SPS controls where justified, with that commitment to avoid unnecessary trade barriers while respecting each party’s right to regulate. We believe it is in both parties’ interests to use this framework to reduce the rate of SPS checks required.

In answer to one of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, the first meeting of the Trade Specialised Committee on SPS has now taken place. It provided the opportunity to take stock of our new relationship with the EU on SPS matters. Both the UK and the EU agreed on the importance of ongoing collaboration across a wide range of issues, including e-certification, animal welfare and the fight against antimicrobial resistance. At the committee, the UK raised concerns about the justification for the EU’s import conditions covering live bivalve molluscs and seed potatoes, including their impact on businesses. The UK and the EU agreed to further technical exchanges on these and future constructive discussions on import restrictions on chilled meats.

The noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, asked, I think, when the single trade window stops. The answer is that the capabilities of the single trade window will grow iteratively over the coming years, with functionality being extended to users in stages. Work is under way to develop a delivery road map beyond 2022, and we will be engaging extensively with the broader industry and traders over the coming months to ensure that we deliver a genuinely transformative approach for users.

The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, raised so many issues that I am afraid I cannot possibly answer them all, but I will answer some and write to him afterwards on others. He made the point of the importance of nature and land use in the context of our climate battle and mentioned COP 26. One very clear win at COP 26 was our having put nature and land use at the heart of those discussions. In previous COPs, nature, forests and land use generally have always been at the margins of the margins of the debate. We have a small room with forestry experts on the outside of the conference, and discussions happen and are then completely ignored. That has changed. One of the two main leaders’ days was completely dominated by commitments being made by leaders and businesses on forests. Even some of the more sceptical environmental groups were both taken by surprise and very happy that we had a package on forests which, cumulatively, represents a turning point in our relationship with the natural world. Clearly, we have to make that stuff happen and follow through, and that is what we will do for the remainder of our presidency, which lasts a year.

I disagree with the point the noble Earl has made today and in a number of debates we have had, not least on the then Environment Bill, that the choice is between food production and ecological restoration. I know that is a crude summary of his point, but I think it is its essence. There are so many examples, both here and around the world, of food production being reconciled with the biodiversity crisis we find ourselves in. Fundamentally, no matter how difficult that is, it has to happen. If we are to stop deforestation, it means reconciling commodity production with forests. If we do not do that, all our efforts in relation to emissions reductions are worth nothing. That is the central challenge we face as a species, and it matters here in the UK just as much as in the Amazon.

The committee registered concerns from the fishing industry about the TCA. Although it did not deliver everything that we and the industry hoped for, it has delivered an uplift in fishing quota shares for the UK fleet across a wide range of stocks. The annual consultations that followed were protracted, as we know, and we know that this has also caused uncertainty. The annual consultations for the 2022 fishing year started last week, with both parties keen to make faster progress this year. In answer to the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, the specialised committee on fisheries, the SCF, provides a forum for discussion and co-operation with the EU in relation to sustainable fisheries management, and the first and second meetings took place on 20 July and 27 October respectively.

I am not ignoring the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, I will come back to her point in a second. In fact, I hope the next thing I say is reassuring to her on some of the points she raised. The fish trade sector is now showing some clear signs of recovery. Overall seafood export value in July 2021 was similar to pre-pandemic levels. Exports to the EU remain 9% below pre-Covid average values, while non-EU trade is up 4%, so a semblance of normality is returning to the sector. While we are generally seeing exports recover, we recognise that there is still disruption caused by hospitality sector closures, freight issues, coronavirus and so on, and we continue to work with the sector to try to resolve those challenges. A Defra-led UK-wide seafood industry forum on trade has been established to support the seafood industry with trade and supply chains in all markets, at home and abroad. It has representation from right across the sector—small and big businesses and everything in between.

The TCA provides for limited access to specific areas of the UK 6 to 12 nautical miles zone until the end of the adjustment period, which is on 30 June 2026. Access will be limited to qualifying vessels, namely those that have historically accessed the UK 6 to 12 miles zone with a demonstrable track record of fishing between 2012 and 2016. Access arrangements for the Crown dependencies are different in the TCA. The approach of the UK and Crown dependencies throughout this year has been to implement the new access requirements of the TCA in good faith and in a reasonable and evidence-based way, recognising the sensitivities and importance for both parties.

Before I move on from fishing, the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, mentioned bottom trawling, and I very strongly agree with both of their remarks. The ecological devastation it causes is akin to clear-cutting the Amazon rainforest; it causes untold damage. The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, mentioned the CO₂ contribution caused by bottom trawling. Although the science is not clear and there are wildly varying estimates on the contribution that bottom trawling makes in terms of CO₂ emissions, there is no doubt that it does contribute, and it probably contributes very seriously. Consequently, our management of the ocean should be a much more central part of our COP negotiations. But as the noble Earl and others who have taken interest in this will know, that is a very sensitive political issue which has always been shunted to the side in COP negotiations. However, I think we made significant progress at this COP, not least with the help of Secretary Kerry, who has a passion for oceans and was able to help us bring this issue much closer to the heart of the discussions. I do not pretend we are there yet; I can say only that serious and measurable progress has been made.

The TCA recognises our ongoing commitment to high environmental standards while retaining flexibility for us to tailor our approach for the UK and maintaining our strong levels of protection. This protects our sovereignty while reinforcing our role as a global leader in environment and climate policy. These arrangements are typical of the sort you find in other free trade agreements and will ensure that both parties retain full legislative autonomy while also providing reasonable assurances that both sides will not engage in aggressively anticompetitive practices in a way that distorts trade between each other. The report welcomes the inclusion of climate change provisions in the TCA. It notes that the TCA reflects the importance that both parties place on tackling climate change by making that challenge an essential element in the agreement.

I say briefly in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, who mentioned the challenges inherent in free trade agreements and the risk that poses to our own standards, we have been very clear that we will not pursue free trade agreements in such a way that our own standards are compromised. That is not to say that there are not challenges, but alongside those challenges there are a lot of opportunities, and the goal surely has to be to reach a situation where the kinds of sustainable practices that we know the world needs are favoured in trade arrangements and those things which are less sustainable face bigger obstacles. There are plenty of opportunities where the UK could be more ambitious in our pursuit of free trade agreements. I am having those discussions with the new Secretary of State for International Trade in the coming weeks, and I very much look forward to them.

The UK already has in place some of the highest environmental standards in the world and the Government have no intention of weakening or lowering them, as I said earlier. On the contrary, it is our intention to continue raising them. The UK will use the TCA committee structure to monitor EU implementation and engage with the Commission on any issue of suspected EU non-compliance, including through the dispute resolution mechanism of the TCA if necessary.

Reflecting our commitment to high environmental standards, on 9 November 2021 the UK Parliament passed into law the Environment Act 2021 to protect and enhance our environment for future generations. The relevant sections of the Act will be commenced imminently to bring about the legal establishment of the office for environmental protection. In fact, I have a bit of an update on that. The noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, asked when the OEP will be fully functioning. I can confirm that we will commence all the relevant parts of the Environment Act to enable all the OEP’s statutory functions and duties within three months of Royal Assent, which is in roughly two and a half months from now.

The report also covers energy and carbon pricing, urging for delivery of new arrangements and concerns that consumer electricity prices could increase. The global gas price spike provides yet another good reason why we must move away from a dependency on fossil fuels and towards clean sources of energy at home. As we decarbonise our electricity system, wholesale prices will be less affected by the fluctuations caused by fossil fuel prices, and all else being equal we would expect wholesale prices under a renewables-based electricity system to be lower than our current one based on fossil fuels. This will protect consumers by reducing our exposure to these volatile prices while lowering prices as electricity becomes cheaper to produce. We already have a strong, home-grown renewable energy sector, but we need to go further to reduce our reliance and protect British consumers.

The Government are committed to developing and implementing new efficient electricity trading arrangements as agreed to in the TCA to support the further integration of renewable energy sources, along with our ambition on net zero, and our need to protect consumers from high prices. As part of that, we have recently consulted on the current arrangements for trading electricity on power exchanges in the GB wholesale electricity market and our proposal to support efficient cross-border trading. That consultation closed on 3 November. We are currently considering responses to those proposals and will publish our response soon. On carbon pricing, as noble Lords know, the UK and EU agreed to co-operate and give consideration to linking our respective carbon pricing systems under the terms of the TCA. We will be taking forward our commitments in due course.

As the report states, securing a trade agreement with the EU was a key priority for the UK chemicals sector, a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. The agreement removes the vast majority of the £1 billion per annum tariff costs that the sector would have faced in a non-negotiated or no-deal outcome, and has been welcomed by industry. Again in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, of course we want to support a sustainable, innovative UK chemicals sector which thrives in the longer term. This must be done without undermining the capacity of the regulator to adequately ensure that chemicals are traded on the GB market safely. Striking this balance clearly comes with challenges, and I do not underestimate the strength of feeling around the move to UK REACH and the challenges and costs of that. We have debated that many times in the House, and I recognise that the House takes a very strong view, one that has been very much noted by Defra.

We are grateful to those in industry who have worked closely with us through the complex issues around the transition, generating ideas for Ministers to consider and working with us on the practicalities of the set-up. Since UK REACH launched on 1 January, companies have successfully submitted information to HSE ahead of the key milestones for grandfathering and downstream user import notifications, via the IT service “Comply with UK REACH”. Ministers are still considering proposals put forward by industry for making changes to the UK REACH registration requirements. These are very difficult issues, which Ministers are grappling with, but they are taking the proposals seriously, so I would ask for noble Lords’ patience while they do so.

As acknowledged by the committee report, the agreement that the Government have reached with the EU means that reciprocal healthcare arrangements continue. UK residents are covered if they need urgent healthcare when in an EU member state, and the arrangements ensure that all those with long-term conditions will continue to be able to benefit from necessary healthcare in the EU. In response to the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, since the start of the year, over 1.5 million global health insurance cards and 240,000 UK European health insurance cards have been issued.

In relation to a question put to me on Northern Ireland, which I think was also put to me by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh—apologies if that is wrong—a lot of concerns have been raised by Peers about Northern Ireland generally. I confirm that there remains a substantial gap between the positions of the UK and the EU. We think and hope that that gap can be bridged, but it will clearly require very intensive discussions.

We will seize the opportunities enabled by our exit to realise ambitions to make the UK a life sciences superpower. We will use the provisions of the Medicines and Medical Devices Act 2021 to overhaul our clinical trial frameworks, based on outdated EU legislation, giving a major boost to the UK’s world-class research and development sector and getting patients access to new life-saving medicines more quickly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, kindly acknowledged that this was not an area that I normally cover, but I shall address her point on the NHS workforce. The Government are, of course, hugely grateful for the tremendous contribution that front-line workers within the health and care sectors are playing at the current time, and recognise their commitment and the dedication they have to keeping vital services running. We are committed to growing and supporting the workforce to ensure that it continues to provide world-class health and care. There are record numbers of doctors and nurses working in the NHS today.

In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, the NHS people plan recognises that international staff are critical, as she says, to a sustainable workforce in the short to medium term while domestic supply is increased. There is a gap there that needs to be filled. Recognising this, in 2020 we introduced the health and care visa and waived the immigration health surcharge for key health and care occupations to make it quicker and cheaper for international health and care professionals to come and work in the UK. The recently updated code of practice for the international recruitment of health and social care personnel will ensure that the UK remains a world leader in ethical international recruitment.

I apologise for speaking for longer than the allocated 20 minutes. I again thank the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and his committee for this report and for his remarks earlier. I know I have not answered all the questions that were put to me. I will go through Hansard and ensure I do so in writing. In the meantime, I hand back to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, to wrap up. I thank the Committee for its patience today.

Environment Bill

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 9th November 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its disagreement with the Commons in their Amendments 31A and 31B on which the Commons have insisted for their Reason 31D, and do not insist on its Amendment 31C in lieu to which the Commons have disagreed for the same Reason.

31D: Because the Bill and Amendments 31A and 31B make appropriate provision in relation to guidance and the independence of the OEP.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, this is a momentous month for the environment. We are hosting the world at COP 26, the world’s best chance to reach agreement on the action needed to avert catastrophic climate change and support those already experiencing its effects. Huge global progress has already been made in this forum. Over 130 countries representing more than 90% of the world’s forests have committed to halt and reverse deforestation by 2030. We have secured an unprecedented $20 billion to protect the world’s forests. Financial institutions with assets worth nearly $9 trillion have committed to align with nature. We secured the commitment from the big multilateral development banks, including the World Bank, that they too will align their portfolios not only with Paris goals but with nature as well. And, crucially, we secured a commitment from the 12 biggest buyers of agricultural commodities—including China Oil and Foodstuffs Corporation—that their buying policies will be aligned with 1.5 degrees and our overall deforestation goals. Each of these commitments is new and unprecedented; combined, they are mutually reinforcing, and this represents a turning point in our relationship with the world’s forests. Our job is now to inject real accountability into the process and to ensure that these promises are kept in full. This landmark Environment Bill, which we hope is now so close to its conclusion, will be an integral part of that action.

Noble Lords will have seen that this Government have moved significantly on a number of the issues which your Lordships’ House insisted on at Third Reading. I will begin by discussing Amendments 31C and 75C, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, and Amendments 31A, 31B, 75A and 75B which have been re-tabled by my honourable friend Minister Pow in the other place.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, the noble Baronesses, Lady Parminter, Lady Jones of Whitchurch and Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, and my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern, for their work in this important area. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, in particular for his conversations with me and with the Secretary of State on the power in the Bill to offer guidance to the OEP. As a direct result of those conversations, there are a number of points that I would like to put on the record today, in the knowledge that ministerial statements in Hansard could be drawn on by the courts as a legitimate aid to statutory interpretation in the future.

The OEP is and must be an independent body capable of holding public authorities to account on their environmental responsibilities, including through the use of their enforcement functions. That is why the Government have given the OEP a remit and powers of unprecedented breadth in this Bill. In order for the OEP to work effectively, it must act strategically and take action only when there is an environmental and public interest in doing so. On this point, everyone is agreed.

As the Secretary of State is ultimately accountable for the OEP’s performance and use of public funds, the Government consider that this accountability power in Clause 24 is necessary to ensure that the body continues to use public resources effectively to achieve the greatest public good. However, I must be clear that the content of guidance is limited to the areas of the OEP’s enforcement policy listed in Clause 22(6). It cannot be used to direct the OEP as to the content of any report they might produce or any advice to the Government. Indeed, it cannot be used as a power of direction at all. It would also be inappropriate for the Secretary of State to issue guidance on specific matters relating to the enforcement of environmental law against the Secretary of State for Defra, given that there would be a conflict of interest.

I do not want to be disingenuous: the OEP would be expected to have regard to any guidance issued, but it retains the ability and discretion to make its own decisions and is not bound to act in accordance with the guidance where it has clear reasons not to do so. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, and others have previously raised concerns that the Secretary of State might be able to use guidance to preclude the OEP investigating a broad category of individual cases or subject areas, such as nuclear power stations. I must say unequivocally that it is our view that the power could not lawfully be used in this way.

Any guidance issued must be consistent with the duty in paragraph 17 of Schedule 1 for the Secretary of State to have regard to the need to protect the independence of the OEP. Any guidance that diverts OEP scrutiny away from entire policy areas, outside existing statutory steers on prioritisation, would not be in keeping with that duty. This is not a power that could be used simply to divert the OEP away from investigating issues that could be in some way inconvenient to government. The provision for guidance on how the OEP intends to exercise its functions means that the guidance will in its nature be on the OEP’s approach to these issues, rather than defining specific areas to prioritise or deprioritise.

The OEP will operate with a very high degree of independence, especially when it comes to making individual enforcement decisions. In exercising its discretion in individual cases, the OEP would need to have regard to all relevant factors, but ultimately must take all its decisions objectively, impartially and independently of government.

Furthermore, the Environment Bill already provides that the OEP should focus on cases that have national implications. Guidance could not be issued that goes against these existing provisions and could instead add further detail. However, it will remain up to the OEP, within the framework provided by the Bill and any guidance, to determine whether cases that have a discrete local impact also have national implications, or for some other reason have sufficiently broad or widespread impact to be considered serious, or to be prioritised, for the purposes of its enforcement functions.

It is important to note that the Secretary of State is also able to offer guidance on how the OEP should respect the integrity of other bodies and existing statutory regimes. With such a huge and broad remit, the OEP will be able to scrutinise all public authorities, including many expert scientific bodies. This ability will be important for the OEP to be able to take a broad view and identify systemic issues.

Although I am sure the OEP will be extremely effective, it will be a relatively small body with a broad remit. The decisions of organisations such as Cefas, for example, which employs hundreds of world-leading marine scientists, will be based on deep expertise and often highly technical scientific data. The OEP will need to be mindful of this in its own decision-making when scrutinising these bodies. It is important to get this balance right to maintain confidence and integrity within existing regimes, and guidance could help to address this.

We believe that this power is important to ensure accountability, so that the OEP can contribute to delivering environmental improvements in the way I think we all agree it should: by acting strategically, not just in the short term, but long into the future. I can also confirm that this Government will not issue guidance to the OEP before its initial set-up or before it has had the chance to develop its own enforcement policy.

I recognise the points that noble Lords have raised, which is why the Government previously reintroduced a provision for Parliament and the Northern Ireland Assembly to scrutinise any draft guidance before it is issued. I hope my assurances regarding what this power could and could not be used for, as well as the additional parliamentary scrutiny we have provided for, serve to reassure noble Lords about this provision.

Turning to Amendments 33B and 33C, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions on this topic, but in particular the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, for his detailed and continuously constructive conversations with me and my officials. On environmental review, the key area of debate has been the remedies available in the event that a breach of environmental law is confirmed by the court. At the heart of this issue has always been the fact that, through environmental review, the OEP will have the ability to bring cases to court outside standard judicial review time limits, potentially long after the decisions in question have been taken. For this reason, the Government have maintained that bespoke provision is necessary to ensure certainty and fairness for third parties who have acted in line with decisions made by public bodies, and to protect good administration.

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[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I will particularly address the amendments from the Government and in the name of my noble friend Lord Adonis on water quality, in Motions C and C1. First, I thank the Minister and Defra officials for their time in listening to our concerns throughout the passage of this Bill. While we welcome the government amendment to improve water quality, we must be clear that the Government did not want to include stronger provisions in this Bill to improve and protect our rivers and waterways, including from sewage discharges. We have the government amendment before us today because of the refusal of your Lordships’ House, Philip Dunne in the other place and in particular the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, to give up on campaigning to protect both our environment and public health. Once again, the Minister has been dragged back to debate this because people have been disgusted that the situation was allowed to continue. The Government truly brought the pong into ping-pong.

While the government amendment before us today does improve the Bill, noble Lords have said that they are finding it in some ways unsatisfactory, as it does not go far enough to address some of the concerns that have been raised today. The noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, talked about the considerable public support for his amendment, including from water companies, which he said just want more public investment from the Government in order to improve the sewerage system. He also expressed concern that the government amendment is considerably weaker than his in some aspects. We strongly supported the Duke on this issue, and believe that his original amendment was better than the government amendment before us today, and it is disappointing that Government refused to just accept it. My noble friend Lord Adonis has now picked this up, and he clearly laid out his reasons for doing so: his concerns that discharges have been increasing; that enforcement has not been what it should be; and that this is partly down to cuts to the Environment Agency, which have reduced its capacity to both monitor and take action.

I will now draw particular attention to three concerns raised by my colleague Luke Pollard in the other place. First, on prosecutions—the noble Duke mentioned their lack—will the Minister commit to reviewing the system of fines and penalties? The current penalties clearly do not have the effect of stopping certain water companies form routinely dumping raw sewage into our waterways. Penalties must be meaningful so that they change behaviour, or they are pointless. Water companies and the regulator, Ofwat, have consistently failed to stop damaging discharges. They know they that they are currently allowed to discharge raw sewage only in exceptional circumstances, but take no notice, which is why penalties and fines must be reviewed. Southern Water had committed no fewer than 168 previous offences before being fined this summer.

Secondly, we need to strengthen the duty of Ofwat to take action, to give water companies a clear direction on targets, ensure that there is a priority to clean up the most polluting discharges, and have oversight on progress from the relevant parliamentary committees. The regulator should have environmental experts available to strengthen its decision-making.

Thirdly, can the Minister further clarify what is meant by “progressive reduction”—the timescales mentioned by my noble friend Lord Adonis? By when, and by how much? Yesterday, I attended COP 26, as mentioned by the Minister in his introduction. Much is being made there of the importance of putting nature and the environment at the centre of policy-making and legislation. We know that one consequence of climate change in the UK is likely to be heavier rainfall. Without progressive reduction being pinned down properly, we are a very long way away from seeing an end to this persistent pollution.

In yesterday’s debate in the other place, the Minister, Rebecca Pow, ran out of time to respond to these questions from my colleague, so I would be grateful if the Minister could take the opportunity to answer these points today. I also look forward to his reply to other concerns raised by noble Lords in this debate, including my noble friend Lord Adonis, and whether he can reassure the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, that there will be proper parliamentary oversight and progress on ending the practice of discharging raw sewage into the waterways, because without proper oversight on progress, it will, as I said, take a very long time to change this behaviour at all.

I also look forward to the Minister’s response to the questions from my noble friend Lady Quin and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, regarding the true cost of tackling this issue. If he cannot answer these questions, can he explain why the Government are refusing to commit to addressing these very real concerns, which we have raised time and again?

Noble Lords are right: the Bill is in a better place now than when it started, and that is mainly down to concerns raised by your Lordships. But it is a shame that the Government have not been able to completely accept today’s important improvements.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank your Lordships for your contributions to this debate. This is a landmark Environment Bill, the benefits of which will undoubtedly be felt by future generations both in the UK and, as a result of, for example, our due diligence legislation and more besides, internationally. I thank your Lordships for the collaborative and expert manner in which you have approached this Bill. Your constructive support and knowledge have been invaluable in enabling the passage of this Bill and making it better than when it first came to this House.

I will begin by addressing points made by the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, whom I thank again for sharing his expertise, time and patience on this important issue, and for his words today. I am happy to reiterate my earlier statement, also in response to questions raised by the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, that, in exercising its discretion in individual cases, the OEP would of course need to have regard to a range of relevant factors but ultimately must take all its decisions objectively, impartially and independently of government. Furthermore, I am happy to confirm that the Government are committed to ensuring the operational independence of the OEP.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked whether, in preparing the guidance, we would consult the OEP. The answer is, of course, yes we would. She also asked whether the framework document that the Government will agree with the OEP will make explicit reference to the Government’s commitment to a five-year indicative budget ring-fenced within each spending review period. The answer is that the framework document will make explicit reference to the five-year indicative budget and Defra will provide a ring-fence within each spending review period, in line with previous government commitments. It will also add detail that will guide and give further clarity to the relationship between the OEP, Defra and the rest of government.

To answer the questions from the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, I assure her that Defra Ministers and officials continue to have very regular discussions with DAERA, as has my noble friend, who I see up in the Gallery now, as they have throughout the passage of this Bill. Northern Irish Ministers have consistently sought parity as far as possible between the two Administrations with regard to the OEP. I know that my friend, Minister Pow, will continue these discussions and will support Northern Ireland in setting up a fully independent OEP.

Turning to Amendment 33B on the environmental review measure, I reiterate that the changes made by the Government in the other place will provide discretion to the court to grant remedies if it is satisfied that it is necessary to prevent or mitigate serious damage to the environment or people’s health, and there is an exceptional public interest reason to do so. They also ensure that a high bar is still set for the granting of remedies where third parties may be affected.

I place again on the record my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, for his important contribution to improving the Bill and the manner in which he has engaged with me and my officials. I am glad that my words have at least gone some way to reassure him sufficiently today.

I turn to Amendment 45B in the name of the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, and Amendment 45C tabled by Rebecca Pow on storm overflows. The Government’s new amendment in lieu will underpin the storm overflows measures in the Bill by requiring water companies to secure a progressive reduction—I will come to the definition of that in a moment—in the adverse impacts of their storm overflows. It will make our expectations unequivocal in law and enforceable with the full suite of sanctions available under the Water Industry Act 1991.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I appreciate the new provisions for real-time monitoring, which are obviously a move forward, but how do they get added together to make sure that we are tackling the sewage issue? That is what I was concerned about.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

If the monitoring is done in the manner in which this legislation requires, that data will become immediately available, but it is for the regulators—indeed, the Government—to ensure that the data is processed and understood and that it informs next steps. It is hard to be more specific; that is the Government’s job and if the Government fail in their duties there are a number of other accountability mechanisms which we are introducing through the Bill—not least the OEP—to ensure that the Government do their job.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about timelines. We have committed to review Schedule 3; I have put that on the record in the past, work has begun, and the review will report early next year.

I hope that I have answered the questions that were put to me today. I thank all those who have contributed to this debate and to the hours of debate since the Bill was introduced. It has had a challenging passage, but I have sincerely appreciated contributions—or most of them—from across the House and in the other place in support of the environment that we all cherish.

I once again thank all noble Lords who have tabled amendments throughout the passage. I also thank the stakeholders, who have used their voices so effectively. I particularly thank my counterparts on the opposition Benches—the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Hayman, and the noble Lord, Lord Khan, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Parminter and Lady Bakewell, and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. I very much take the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, about the pong in the ping-pong, but the work—

[Baroness Parminter (LD)]

It was the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

I am so sorry—I have just transferred that brilliant joke to another party. It may have been a brilliant joke but there was some truth in it—many a truth is told in jest, as someone said. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, makes a very good point, but I genuinely believe that the work of this House has removed much of the pong, and the ping-pong has, as a result, improved the Bill considerably. I genuinely thank her and others across the aisle for the work that they put into this.

I equally thank my exceptional private office staff, who have worked above and beyond the call of duty. This has been a very long process; it is one of the biggest Bills we have had to deal with. They have been working—in some cases—around the clock and I am very grateful to them and of course to the Bill team, who have been absolutely superb and extraordinarily patient, not just with colleagues in this House but with Ministers. I really appreciate their efforts and I look forward—as I know many in this House do—to the Bill continuing the crucial work that we have already begun to restore our appallingly depleted natural environment, improve the quality of our air and water, and end the scourge of plastic waste pollution. I commend this Motion to the House.

[Lord Krebs (CB)]

My Lords, I thank all those who have taken part in this debate and will reiterate something that was said at earlier stages of the Bill. The amendments I have been involved in, and many of the others, have been genuinely across all groups, and it has been a particular pleasure for me to work not only with the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones of Whitchurch and Lady Parminter, but with colleagues on the Conservative Benches: the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, the noble Lord, Lord Duncan of Springbank and others. The concerns we have expressed are not partisan: they are genuine concerns about wanting to improve the Bill and protect the environment for our grandchildren and generations to come.

I also thank the Minister. In his reply, he did indeed utter the words I was hoping he would: namely, that the Government’s intention is to protect the operational independence of the OEP. I am very grateful to him for confirming that.

In concluding, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, said it far more eloquently and succinctly than I could. We have worked hard to try to improve the Bill and we have made significant gains, but there comes a point at which we say, “Enough is enough. We have done the best we can. We have brought our experience and expertise to bear on the Bill and we think we have got about as far as we can. It may not be perfect, but it is better than it was when we started.” On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw Motion A1.

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 33B to which the Commons have disagreed, and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 33C and 33D in lieu.

33C: Clause 37, page 22, line 25, leave out from “if” to end of line 28 and insert “Condition A or Condition B is met.
(8A) Condition A is that the court is satisfied that granting the remedy would not—
(a) be likely to cause substantial hardship to, or substantially prejudice the rights of, any person other than the authority, or
(b) be detrimental to good administration.
(8B) Condition B is that Condition A is not met but the court is satisfied that—
(a) granting the remedy is necessary in order to prevent or mitigate serious damage to the natural environment or to human health, and
(b) there is an exceptional public interest reason to grant it.”

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 45B to which the Commons have disagreed, and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 45C and 45D in lieu.

45C: After Clause 78, page 73, line 29, insert the following new Clause—
“Reduction of adverse impact of storm overflows
In Chapter 4 of Part 4 of the Water Industry Act 1991, after section 141EB insert—
“141EC Reduction of adverse impact of storm overflows
(1) A sewerage undertaker whose area is wholly or mainly in England must secure a progressive reduction in the adverse impact of discharges from the undertaker’s storm overflows.
(2) The reference in subsection (1) to reducing adverse impacts includes—
(a) reducing adverse impacts on the environment, and
(b) reducing adverse impacts on public health.
(3) The duty of a sewerage undertaker under this section is enforceable under section 18 by—
(a) the Secretary of State, or
(b) the Authority with the consent of or in accordance with a general authorisation given by the Secretary of State.””

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its disagreement with the Commons in their Amendments 75A and 75B on which the Commons have insisted for their Reason 75D, and do not insist on its Amendment 75C in lieu to which the Commons have disagreed for the same Reason.

75D: Because the Bill and Amendments 75A and 75B make appropriate provision in relation to guidance and the independence of the OEP.

Arrest of Sudanese Prime Minister

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, on Monday Vicky Ford welcomed the United Nations Secretary-General’s condemnation of the military’s action, stating that the UK was actively calling for a briefing at the UN Security Council. She added that she would be speaking to her US counterpart later that day. Can the Minister update the House on the progress of these initiatives? The release of Prime Minister Abdalla Hamdok yesterday is welcome but the statement by his office said that other government officials remained in detention, their locations unknown. Can the Minister tell us what discussions in the last 24 hours Ministers in the department have had with the security and military forces in Sudan to urge the release of those who have been unlawfully detained?

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK strongly condemns the arrest of civilian members of Sudan’s transitional Government by the military yesterday. We are also deeply concerned by reports of protesters having been shot. Over the past two years, Sudan has been on a delicate pathway from oppressive autocratic rule towards freedom and democracy. The Minister was in Khartoum last week, as she told the House of Commons, where she stressed the need for all parties to support the civilian-led Government’s work to deliver the democratic transition process that has been widely agreed.

In response to the noble Lord’s question, together with the US and Norway we have issued a troika statement condemning the suspension of the institutions of state, the declaration of the state of emergency and the detention of Prime Minister Hamdok and other members of the civilian leadership. The statement also calls for the immediate release of those unlawfully detained.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as outlined in the register. I was due to be in Khartoum next Friday, scheduled to meet Prime Minister Hamdok on my 13th visit to Sudan before, during and after the democratic revolution. It is an absolute tragedy that has afflicted the people of Sudan, especially the women and young people, who have been so active in the transition process. There is considerable concern that diplomatic access will be refused to officials, many of whom I have spoken to over the last few weeks leading up to the coup. Can the Minister update the House on ensuring that there is diplomatic access to Prime Minister Hamdok and other Cabinet Ministers who have been detained and are now under house arrest in their own properties?

Secondly, there is significant concern that certain countries allied to the UK may well be offering significant sums of money to the military, which has now taken power. Will the troika and the EU work together to ensure that allies of our countries will not financially support military dictatorships that overthrow democratic transitional administrations?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. It is clear, as everyone would agree, that the actions of the military are unacceptable. We are reassessing our commitment to restart a phased defence engagement in light of what has happened. The noble Lord also mentioned the impact particularly felt by women and girls. It is worth acknowledging, as the Minister for Africa said yesterday, that women were a major driver of the 2019 protest and fought so bravely for democracy. Last week in Khartoum, Minister Ford from the other place met a number of those inspiring individuals who have shown the vital role that women and girls have to play in the country’s future, and the UK solidly stands with them, both from over here in the United Kingdom and through our humanitarian assistance and overseas development programmes.

[Baroness Bertin (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to move the amendment in my name—

Environment Bill

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 26th October 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 1, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 1A.

1A: Because the provision made by the Amendment is unnecessary.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

With the leave of the House, I will also speak to Motions B, B1, C, C1, D and D1. This historic legislation is now not only within sight; it is within reach. I thank Members for their conversations with me and my officials and for the debates that have taken place in this House.

I begin with Amendment 1, on biodiversity and the climate emergency, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and I thank him very much for the meetings he has had with me. I hope he noticed that last week, the Prime Minister pledged that:

“We will meet the global climate emergency but not with panicked, short-term or self-destructive measures as some have urged”,


but with the actions he set out in the net-zero strategy, and indeed through actions in this Bill.

We introduced in your Lordships’ House a duty to set an additional legally binding target to halt the decline in species abundance by 2030—a clear and significant response to the biodiversity emergency we face. However, as I have said previously, addressing these twin challenges requires action, which this Government are taking.

The net-zero strategy builds on the action from the 10-point plan, the energy White Paper, the transport decarbonisation plan, the hydrogen strategy and the heat and buildings strategy. It sets out ambitious plans to reach net zero across all the key sectors of the economy. The net-zero strategy outlines measures to transition to a green and sustainable future, helping businesses and consumers to move to clean power, supporting up to 190,000 jobs in the mid-2020s and up to 440,000 jobs in 2030, and leveraging up to £90 billion of private investment by 2030. It includes £3.9 billion of new funding over the next three years for decarbonising heat and buildings so that homes and buildings are warmer and healthier. We will boost the existing £640 million Nature for Climate Fund with a further £124 million of new money, ensuring total spend of more than £750 million by 2025 on woodland creation and management, peat restoration and so on. This will enable more opportunities for farmers and landowners to support net zero through land use change. Furthermore, the Bill’s powerful package of measures, including biodiversity net gain, local nature recovery strategies and a strengthened biodiversity duty on public authorities, will drive action towards our biodiversity targets and objectives.

We are playing a leading role in pressing for an ambitious post-2020 global biodiversity framework, to be adopted at CBD COP 15. This is my number one international priority, but it is also the Government’s. Putting the declaration in Amendment 1 into law is therefore not necessary. However, I hope noble Lords are reassured that the Government are taking action at pace to deal with these crises, and that calls from a number of noble Lords to hear the phrase “climate emergency” from the Prime Minister’s mouth have now been answered.

Turning to Amendments 2 and 2B, on soil health, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, first, let me first make it clear that the Government take soil health seriously. As Minister Pow said in the other place:

“It is the stuff of life.”—[Official Report, Commons, 20/10/21; col. 793.]


It is a priority, and I do not think anyone doubts that. This is why we are currently working with technical experts to develop the appropriate means of measuring soil health, which could be used to inform a future soils target.

However, an amendment to make soil health or soil quality a listed priority area would require us to bring forward an objectively measurable target by October 2022, and I am afraid we do not yet have the data to do that. Until baseline data and a metric to measure success are developed, we cannot commit to setting a robust soil target at this time. However, as I have also said, that is not to say that it is not a priority for us. Defra is working with partners right now to develop the baseline data and metric needed to set that target.

As I announced on Report, we will deliver a new soil health action plan for England. Noble Lords will find more detail on this action plan in the Written Ministerial Statement published last week, but I highlight that it will provide clear strategic direction to develop a heathy soil indicator, soil structure methodology and a soil health monitoring scheme to support the delivery of a future potential soil target.

We refer to the use of “soil health” over “soil quality” because soil quality sometimes refers to a measurement of the current status of a soil while soil health more accurately captures how well the soil is functioning. The soil health action plan aims to help soil to function better to deliver a wide range of ecosystem services and wider benefits and outcomes, such as increased biodiversity, carbon storage, food production and flood mitigation.

I recognise the compelling arguments of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, and the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, and commend their very successful efforts to raise this issue up the agenda. I hope that the action I have set out, and the new soil health action plan for England, demonstrate our commitment to this critical aspect of our natural environment. This includes our commitment to improve the health of our precious peat soils, in line with the England Peat Action Plan published earlier this year and supported by the extra funding I mentioned earlier.

On Amendments 3 and 3B, on air quality, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, I thank her for her time spent meeting with me on multiple occasions. I recognise the strength of feeling on this issue both in this House and in the other place; it is a feeling I share. The two targets we are currently developing—a concentration target and a population exposure reduction target—will work together to both reduce PM2.5 in areas with the highest levels and drive continuous improvement across the country. This unique, dual-target approach is strongly supported by our expert committees, the Air Quality Expert Group and the Committee on the Medical Effects of Air Pollutants. They will be an important part of our commitment to drive forward tangible and long-lasting improvements to the air that we breathe.

Colleagues in the other place last Wednesday rightly called for urgency in tackling air pollution. I emphasise that we are not waiting for these targets to be set before taking the necessary action. We already have legally binding national emission reduction targets for five key air pollutants for 2030. Our Clean Air Strategy was praised by the World Health Organization as

“an example for the rest of the world to follow”,

and sets out the actions we are taking to deliver on these targets. For example, legislation to phase out the sale of house coal and deal with wet wood, and to introduce emission standards for manufactured solid fuels for domestic burning across England, came into force from 1 May 2021. We are also delivering a £3.8 billion plan to clean up transport and tackle nitrogen dioxide pollution.

This House will have heard these points before, but I want to emphasise that delivering our ambitious reductions in PM2.5 will require co-ordinated action. The more ambitious these targets are, the greater the level of intervention that will be needed—from national and local government, as well as businesses and individual citizens. To achieve a level such as 10 micrograms in our cities would require fundamental changes in how we live our lives; for example, significant changes to farming practices to reduce ammonia, which reacts in the air to form particulate matter. This would be likely to be in addition to a total ban on solid fuel burning, including wood, and restricting traffic kilometres by as much as 50%. That would include electric vehicles, which release non-exhaust emissions from tyre and brake wear, for example.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, for her further amendment, which challenges us to go further and set a target of 5 micrograms by 2040, in line with the latest recommendations from the World Health Organization. While we recognise that there is no safe level for PM2.5, it is also important to acknowledge that PM2.5 is not a pollutant that can be fully eradicated. The reasons for that are manifold. First, contributions to PM2.5 from natural sources and from outside the UK, particularly in the south-east of England, are currently modelled at around 5 to 6 micrograms. That is before we take into consideration the everyday activities of the millions of people who live in those towns and cities in the south-east. Essentially, our current evidence strongly suggests that it is not possible to achieve reductions in PM2.5 concentrations to levels as low as 5 micrograms in numerous locations in England, particularly in the south and south-east. Setting an unrealistic target would be disingenuous, and the target would be meaningless as a result, as well as ineffective and potentially counterproductive.

Before setting targets, we need to understand what reductions are possible, the scale of measures required to achieve them and the impact and burdens that would be placed on society. Members of the public will want, and deserve, to understand the specific health benefits and then we can decide upon the fundamental changes that would be required. So we will hold a public consultation on these targets early next year. Once we have carefully considered the responses to the consultation, we will bring forward the final, statutory targets by October 2022. That is a legally required date that we cannot and will not miss.

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[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, when the Minister, Rebecca Pow, introduced the government amendments in the other place last week she said:

“The Bill is packed with positive measures … I am delighted that the Government have improved it even further.”—[Official Report, Commons, 20/10/21; col. 791.]


But many of these improvements were ones that the Government had resisted as being not necessary or counterproductive until your Lordships intervened. However, the Government have not listened to noble Lords’ concerns on air quality, and I am disappointed that the Bill has not been changed to reflect these very serious concerns. I thank noble Lords who have expressed support for my Motion C1.

In the debate in the other place, senior Conservatives expressed concern at the Government’s lack of action on this matter. Neil Parish, chair of the EFRA Committee, said that he completely agreed with the intention behind our amendment and that we had to ensure that this is one of our great priorities, questioning whether the Government were taking the issue seriously enough. Bob Neill MP commented:

“When a coroner issues a prevention of further deaths letter, it is not done lightly”—[Official Report, Commons, 20/10/21; col. 811.]


and called for “prompt and urgent action”. Rebecca Pow, the Minister, said that

“there is no safe level of PM2.5”.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/10/21; col. 797.]

Doctors are so concerned that a team of 30 paediatric healthcare providers are, right now, cycling from London’s Great Ormond Street Hospital to the Royal Hospital for Children in Glasgow to raise awareness of the impact of air pollution on health, ahead of COP 26. I am genuinely at a loss as to why the Government are dragging their feet, when delay costs lives.

The revised amendment before your Lordships’ House today takes into account the reduction in the World Health Organization’s air quality guidelines, which were published after our Report stage, on 22 September 2021. I find it worrying that the Minister said in his opening remarks that it is not possible to meet these new guidelines in many areas. They add to the evidence that air pollution causes early death and has been linked, as we have heard before, to lung disease, heart failure, cancer—I could go on. Across significant parts of the UK, air quality still fails to meet the guidelines that were set by the WHO in 2005, let alone the new levels. According to analysis by Asthma UK and the British Lung Foundation, just over a third of people in the UK are breathing levels of PM2.5 over the 2005 WHO guidelines. This is truly shocking.

These new guidelines should act as a road map to clean air, with the ambition and impetus to reach them set by central government now in order to catalyse the changes required to reduce the levels of PM2.5 in particular. The Environment Bill is still the golden opportunity to set this commitment to work towards the more robust WHO guidelines and help reach our net-zero targets, while bringing forward the health benefits. My amendment would require the Government to do just that. Government delay means that people, particularly children and the vulnerable, are paying the price with their health.

Earlier this week, I spoke to Rosamund Adoo-Kissi-Debrah, who told me that today is the 11th anniversary of her daughter Ella’s first becoming ill. Have the Government not waited long enough to act? I thank the Minister and his officials for taking the time to listen to our concerns. I now urge him to accept this amendment; otherwise, I am minded to test the opinion of the House at the appropriate time.

On Motion A, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, that there is an imbalance regarding biodiversity that needs to be addressed.

I turn briefly to the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, on soil quality. I congratulate her and other noble Lords, such as the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, on pressing the Government on this matter sufficiently that they have made a commitment—which was welcomed by us and Members in the other place, including Caroline Lucas—to publish the new soil health action plan for England. It was also good to hear Rebecca Pow state that

“soil will be one of the top priorities in our new environmental land management and sustainable farming initiative schemes.”—[Official Report, Commons, 20/10/21; col. 793.]

I listened to the noble Baroness’s introduction to her amendment, and she raises some important questions that the Minister needs to answer.

I will now turn briefly to the revised amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Brown, and I thank her for making her case so clearly. Of course, we all accept that environmental change cannot happen overnight and needs long-term planning, which is what the 25-year environment plan seeks to do. But you can and must be able to measure progress along the way, and that is why statutory interim targets are so important. We have heard again the argument that interim targets would undermine the long-term nature of the target and make it more complicated to meet the current 25-year environment plan. However, I draw attention to the Natural Capital Committee’s Final Response to the 25 Year Environment Plan Progress Report, published a year ago, which states that

“this report … highlights the lack of progress, and some worrying declines: nine of the 25 years have already passed, and it is now looking very likely the next generation will inherit a poorer set of natural assets.”

Rather than being in contradiction, the combination of binding interim targets and legislated long-term goals is complementary. The report clearly shows that unless you have something binding, it is not necessarily going to happen. This amendment is essential for delivering sustainable progress towards our environmental goals. I hope the Minister will reflect on the noble Baroness’s amendment further and reconsider his current position.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. I begin by particularly thanking the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, for his comments and his probably slightly reluctant acceptance of the position we find ourselves in. I also very much appreciate the comments of my noble friend Lord Cormack.

There was really only one question, raised by the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, on “panic measures”. I am certain that the Prime Minister was not talking about any of the amendments tabled in this House, none of which could be described as “panic measures”, even by people who disagree with them. It is more likely—indeed, it is clear—that he was talking about the calls made by some of the more radical protest groups, perhaps associated with Extinction Rebellion and others, some of which exceed what I think any expert would believe to be a possible and realistic solution. I do not think it is in any way a reflection on this House.

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[Baroness Brown of Cambridge (CB)]

Will the Minister reply by letter to my other question?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I apologise; I thought I had answered. I will certainly reply on any questions that I have not answered—I commit to that. I am afraid I cannot do so now as I am not sure which questions are unanswered.

I understand the strength of feeling and thank noble Lords for the amendments they have put forward. I would be grateful if, in return, they could carefully consider the arguments made today.

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

Before the Minister sits down, he has not answered the points raised by my noble friend Lord Deben. Notwithstanding the evidence that the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, and I have received that you can in fact set a target by the appropriate time limit within Clause 1, my noble friend Lord Deben raised the point that you could have a different date for bringing in soil quality targets. As I understand it, the only way that that is possible is for the soil amendment to be passed by your Lordships and for the Government to bring in an amendment in another place to meet the specific concern. If the Minister is convinced that his advice is right and the advice I had is wrong, he could at least bring soil into the Bill with a deferred date by which the target ought to be brought in.

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[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My noble friend is right that I did not answer that question. I apologise—it was not deliberate. The reality is that I cannot tell him when the metrics will be ready, because I do not know; I am not sure Defra knows either. I cannot give him the deadline he requires.

I have said this before, but I think it is critical. There is zero chance of meeting any of the other targets we are setting in law unless we pay particular attention to soil. This is a matter of process rather than outcome. We will achieve the outcome, because we are legally obliged to do so and part of achieving it means dealing with soil. This does feel like a bit of a distraction.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

I am sorry to trouble my noble friend again. I want to be on his side on this because I know he is really on my side. He knows that if you have to write an article, a deadline is rather important. If you do not have a deadline, you will not write the article. It is like that here. We need to have a date, even if it is further ahead than we would like, otherwise we will not have the concentration that we need. Can my noble friend think again about the possibility of having a date, even though he might disappoint me in how far forward it might be?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I hear my noble friend’s arguments, but without the baseline, we do not know when we can deliver. However, we have a date, which is the 2030 biodiversity target, and if we do not meet that target, we will fall foul of the law. As he himself said, not just today but in previous debates, it is not possible to meet that legally binding target without major effort to protect and restore our soil. Therefore, we have that, and at the very least it is a pretty blooming powerful fallback position.

Motion A agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 2, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 2A.

2A: Because it is not necessary for soil health and quality to be a priority area in order to set a target.

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 3, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 3A.

3A: Because the powers conferred by clause 2 should not be limited in the manner proposed.

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 12, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 12A.

12A: Because the Secretary of State should not be placed under a statutory duty to meet interim targets.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I have already spoken to Motion D. I beg to move.

Motion D1 not moved.

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 28, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 28A.

28A: Because it affects the areas of taxation, spending and the allocation of resources within government, and the Commons do not offer any further Reason, trusting that this Reason may be deemed sufficient.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I will speak also to Motions F, F1, G, G1, N and N1. We are now discussing the second half of our new, transformative system of environmental governance. This new system has been tailored specifically to a UK context, embeds the environment in future policy-making and takes the essential steps needed to strengthen environmental oversight.

I turn to Amendments 28 and 28B, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter. I sincerely thank her for our discussions on this issue and for her proposal to narrow the amendment specifically to cover “safeguarding national security”. However, I am afraid that even with this revised amendment it is the view of the Government that the original exemption for the Armed Forces, defence and national security is still required to provide flexibility to protect and secure the nation. The Government therefore cannot accept the amendment.

The primary function of the defence estate is to support our operations and maintain military capability. It provides homes for those who defend our country, offices for work, space for training, and conditions to prepare to meet the ever-changing threats that the UK faces. This means that defence land, defence policy and national security are inextricably linked. MoD land cannot be separated out; it touches on decisions across the Armed Forces, national security and defence. “National security” does not cover all defence activities. If the coverage of the exemption is reduced, as proposed in the amendment, that directly risks the readiness of our defence capabilities and could impact our responsiveness.

I know that this is a matter in which noble Lords have a keen interest and I emphasise again that these exemptions do not apply to SSSI management, where the MoD is on track to meet the 25-year environment plan target for SSSIs in favourable condition for the sites under its management. Natural England has assessed 48% of the department’s English sites as in favourable condition, which compares well with the English average of 39%.

I reassure the noble Baroness, on the back of the discussions that we have had, that the department will be providing further reassurance in writing of its intentions in relation to the protection, good conservation and improvement of the land under its management. I hope to be able to provide that to her soon.

I turn to the office for environmental protection. I will speak to Amendments 31, 31A, 31B, 31C, 75, 75A, 75B and 75C together, tabled by my colleague Rebecca Pow in the other place and by the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick. I reiterate the Government’s commitment to establishing the OEP as an independent body. This guidance power is required to ensure appropriate accountability and that the OEP continues to operate effectively because the Secretary of State is ultimately responsible to Parliament for the OEP. There are other examples of independent arm’s-length bodies where provision has been made for the Secretary of State to give guidance; for example, under Section 41 of the Climate Change Act 2008 the Secretary of State can give guidance to the Climate Change Committee regarding the exercise of its functions. We are seeking only to do the same in ensuring appropriate accountability and that the OEP continues to operate effectively by focusing on the most serious, strategic cases with national implications.

None the less, I acknowledge the concerns that have been raised about this power. In recognition of noble Lords’ comments, we introduced a new provision to ensure that Parliament and the Northern Ireland Assembly can scrutinise draft guidance before it is issued. The Secretary of State must respond to that scrutiny before final guidance can be laid and have effect. This has been reinstated in the other place, and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, for adding it to his amendment in lieu. I hope noble Lords will recognise that their concerns are being listened to with this measure.

I turn to the other parts of the amendment. I should be clear with noble Lords that we are confident that the right appointment processes are in place for the OEP. These are equivalent to those for other independent scrutiny bodies, such as the Equality and Human Rights Commission. This retains the right balance between ministerial accountability and operational independence. Furthermore, as set out in the Written Ministerial Statement on 7 September:

“The Government took the necessary steps to ensure that the role of Chair was listed as a significant appointment with the Commissioner for Public Appointments … The Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Environmental Audit Committees conducted a pre-appointment scrutiny hearing before the appointment of Dame Glenys Stacey as OEP Chair Designate.”—[Official Report, Commons, 7/9/21; col. 19WS.]


I am happy to reiterate our intention that future chair appointments should follow a similar process, ensuring fairness, accountability and independence in future, as was set out in the Written Ministerial Statement.

I hope that that provides some reassurance for noble Lords and indicates why the amendment therefore is not necessary. Ultimately, Ministers are accountable and responsible to Parliament for public appointments. While we are committed to ensuring parliamentary scrutiny, it is appropriate that Ministers should retain the ability to make the final choice.

Amendments 33 and 33B, on enforcement, were tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, and I am grateful to him and the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, for the engagement that they have given us over the preceding weeks and months. The OEP’s enforcement powers will operate more effectively than those of the European Commission as the OEP will be able to liaise directly with the public body in question to investigate and resolve alleged serious breaches of environmental law in a more targeted and timely manner.

Through environmental review, the OEP can apply for judicial review remedies—subject to appropriate safeguards—that will work to ensure compliance with environmental law. The Court of Justice of the EU cannot issue these kinds of remedies to member states and therefore the OEP could have a far more direct impact on third parties than the previous system. The protections for third parties brought into the OEP’s process of environmental review have therefore been specifically designed in recognition of the unique nature of this type of legal challenge.

We also have to consider the direct impacts that the OEP’s enforcement function may have on third parties. Through environmental review, the OEP will be able to bring cases to court outside of standard judicial review time limits, potentially long after the decisions in question have been taken. For instance, if a quashing order was placed on planning permission or consent for a new shopping centre many months or even years after the decision was taken and where significant building work had already taken place, this could result in substantial hardship for the various parties involved, which would not be fair. We need to ensure that the key principles of fairness and certainty are upheld for third parties who have acted in good faith on the basis of certain decisions and balance this with the need to protect the environment.

Furthermore, the principle behind the provision to protect third-party rights on environmental review is not new. As I have noted in previous debates, it is an extension of the existing position for legal challenges, including under the Senior Courts Act 1981 and the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. These Acts grant the courts discretion to refuse relief where there has been undue delay, and this would be likely to substantially impact third parties or be detrimental to good administration. We are building on these precedents here in a way that reflects the nature of environmental review.

While I thank the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, for proposing Amendment 33B, I am afraid that it does not offer such protections for third parties against the quashing of decisions outside of normal time limits. The factors that it sets out, which the court would have to have regard to, would not provide sufficient protection or certainty, and therefore we cannot support it. The Government have reflected on this new amendment, but I am afraid that it still offers no further protections for third parties. I hope that noble Lords can understand our position on this matter and on the other amendments that we have been discussing.

Motion E1 (as an amendment to Motion E)

Moved by

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[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I am grateful to the Minister for the discussions that he has had with us since Report. Secondly, we are disappointed that the Government have not seen fit to make a concession to the revised amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, to include defence in the scope of the Bill. However, we understand her generous decision to pull up stumps at this point, bearing in mind some of the other pressures on us this evening. Thirdly, we are very grateful, as ever, to the noble Lords, Lord Krebs and Lord Anderson, and my noble friend Lady Ritchie for continuing to pursue the independence of the OEP and the need for effective remedies.

These noble Lords have all made hugely impressive and convincing contributions this evening; they do not need me to repeat their arguments. I also thank all other noble Lords who have added their voices in support. I hope that the Minister is getting a sense of the mood of the House on these issues. We very much hope that he can therefore agree to revisit them. If this is not possible, we urge the noble Lords, Lord Krebs and Lord Anderson, to test the opinion of the House.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. Beginning with Amendment 28B, the Government maintain the position that exempting the Armed Forces, defence and national security from the environmental principles duty is required to ensure the flexibility for our defence capability. I appreciate the comments made by the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, but I am afraid that, as I said in my opening remarks, this is a red line for the MoD. I will secure the reassurance that we were promised together on a call that we made, which has been followed up since, and I very much hope that it directly addresses the plea that she has made to this House. We will continue those discussions afterwards.

In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, I am very happy to reiterate something that I, she and many others have said many times: nature and climate change are inextricably linked. Indeed, climate change is in many respects the fever that the planet is experiencing as a consequence of the degradation of its natural environment. All the science tells us that there is no pathway to net zero, or to staying within 1.5 degrees, without massive efforts to protect and restore nature on a scale that we have never seen before. That is absolutely understood. I simply add that it is not just a reflection of my view but the position of this Government as they take us towards COP 26. We have sought to put nature at the very heart of our response to climate change, both here and internationally. I think, and hope, that we will see some real movement over the coming weeks from the global community.

I turn to amendments 31, 31A, 31B, 31C, 75, 75A, 75B and 75C. We believe that the guidance power is necessary to ensure that the OEP continues to operate effectively and provide appropriate accountability. To elaborate on a point I made earlier in response to comments by the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, the OEP will have an extremely broad scope and remit, encompassing all environmental law and with powers to investigate alleged serious breaches by any public authority, ranging from a local authority to a Minister of the Crown. Given this huge breadth, the guidance power is important to ensure that Ministers who are ultimately responsible for the OEP’s use of public money can ensure that it is functioning as intended, focusing on the most serious strategic cases. My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked for comparable examples of such guidance being issued. My understanding is that the Secretary of State has the power to provide guidance to the Climate Change Committee, and that power is enshrined in the Climate Change Act.

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 31 and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 31A and 31B in lieu.

31A: Clause 24, page 14, line 35, leave out subsections (3) and (4)

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 33, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 33A.

33A: Because the circumstances in which the court may grant a remedy on an environmental review should not be altered in the manner proposed.

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Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 43, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 43A.

43A: Because the law already makes provision to protect pollinators from the effect of pesticides.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, as well as Motion H, with the leave of the House I will also speak to Motions J, J1, K, L, M, Q and R. It is a pleasure to open this debate focusing on the protection of nature, and I am grateful to noble Lords who have contributed throughout the passage of this Bill on these issues.

I begin by speaking to Motions H in my name and H1 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville. I have listened intently to the concerns of this House on this matter and of course I share them. Countless plants in our gardens, towns and countryside simply could not exist without pollen being spread by bees and hundreds of species of other insects. Bees and other insect pollinators contribute more than £500 million a year to UK agriculture through improving crop quality and quantity, but in truth this figure barely touches the sides in terms of the true value of our pollinators to our country. They add immeasurable beauty and wonder to our environment and, indeed, our lives.

The Government wish to see pollinators thrive so they can carry out their essential services for the environment and for food production and provide such joys for people. We are committed to taking action to improve their status, and action through the national action plan, the National Pollinator Strategy and our Healthy Bees Plan 2030 will help better protect pollinators and allow them to flourish. I will set out a bit more detail on these plans for the House today.

First, I can confirm to all noble Lords that we will publish a national action plan for the sustainable use of pesticides by the end of this year. The purpose of the plan is to minimise the risks and impacts of pesticides to human health and the environment while ensuring pests and pesticide resistance are managed effectively. Integrated pest management is central to the plan, and we are supporting a shift towards greater use of those techniques. The technique will benefit the pollinators that we all value, as it will involve designing pesticides out of farming systems as far as we possibly can and will include increased use of nature-based, low-toxicity solutions and precision technologies to manage pests.

In addition, the Government are taking action under the national pollinator strategy. This includes restoring and creating habitats for pollinators to thrive; raising awareness across society so that people can take action themselves; and supporting monitoring and research, including a national pollinator monitoring scheme, to improve our understanding of pollinators’ population status. Our Healthy Bees Plan 2030 provides a blueprint for how we will improve honeybee health, including working in partnership with beekeepers and bee farmers.

Finally, I will address the specific concern raised by Amendment 43B, which seeks to introduce a requirement to conduct a pollinator risk assessment report before a decision can be taken. I assure the House that, when we update the national action plan, we shall assess the use of pesticides in the round and their impact on the natural environment. Given the action that the Government are taking to protect pollinators and the existing regulations in place, as well as the upcoming national action plan for pesticides, I ask that the House agrees with Motion H.

I turn to storm overflows. Before I go into detail, I would like to talk briefly about the debate itself. Of course, we all feel very strongly about this issue, and it is right for the Government to be held to account. However, it has to be said that some of the language that has been used in recent days, including by one or two Members of this House, has been simply unacceptable. It has led very directly to a torrent of abuse, some of it extremely violent, directed at colleagues in the other place. It is obvious to anyone who follows this process that absolutely no one wants raw sewage anywhere near our waters and seas, and it is objectively the case that, even without any further improvements to this Bill, we will have regulations and standards to deal with this issue that significantly exceed what we had before; in other words, the Bill already represents a major improvement on the status quo. I have made it clear previously that we have been working for some time on ways in which to improve and significantly strengthen it, further details of which I shall come to in just a few moments.

With respect, I am going to address the fact that the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, who is in his place, engaged yesterday in an orgy of tweets, telling his followers:

“Zac Goldsmith … proposes pumping raw sewage into rivers & the sea.”


When he talked about

“Zac Goldsmith’s plans to allow water companies to pump raw sewage into rivers and the sea”,

he was spreading a malicious falsehood.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

It is a disgrace.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

It is a disgrace, and I am glad for that reassuring remark from behind.

Over the course of dozens of tweets, the noble Lord was trying to make his—let us face it—not always balanced Twitter followers believe something about me and the Government that is simply not true, and which he knows to be untrue. Indeed, by suggesting that we are making it easier for companies to pollute our waters, he was spreading a grotesque inversion of the truth. I understand why he has done so; it is nothing to do with the environment, an issue on which he has almost no record whatever. It is about wanting people to believe that Brexit means more sewage in our waters. He knows that this is not true—this is a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion—but he also knows that, because of his position, many will believe him. Some will be driven into a frenzy of rage, as we have seen—rage based on a blatant untruth. The noble Lord may have been driven to distraction by Brexit, but he is not a stupid person; he wants his words to have consequences. In this debate on sewage, the noble Lord has absolutely covered himself in the stuff—and I say shame on him.

There is, rightly, concern in this House, and indeed the other place, wider society and the Government, about the unacceptable frequency with which sewage is discharged from storm overflows into our rivers, lakes and seas. It is because we share that concern that we have moved so far already on this issue. In this spirit, I hope that noble Lords will allow me to outline in one simple list the measures in the Bill and outside it which will indeed deliver progressive reductions in the harm caused by storm overflows.

The Bill places, first, a new duty on government to produce a statutory plan to reduce discharges from storm overflows and their adverse impact, and report to Parliament on progress. Secondly, it creates a requirement for government to produce a report setting out the actions that would be needed to eliminate storm overflows in England and the costs and benefits of those actions. Both publications are required before 1 September 2022. Thirdly, it creates a new duty directly on water companies and the Environment Agency to publish data on storm overflow operation on an annual basis and, fourthly, a new duty directly on water companies to publish near real-time information on the operation of storm overflows. Fifthly, it creates a new duty directly on water companies to monitor the water quality upstream and downstream of storm overflows and sewage disposal works and, sixthly, a new duty directly on water companies to produce comprehensive statutory drainage and sewerage management plans, setting out how they will manage and develop their drainage and sewerage system over a minimum 25-year planning horizon, including how storm overflows will be addressed through these plans. The seventh thing the Bill does is to create a power of direction for the Government to direct water companies in relation to these plans if they are not good enough—the “big stick”. Eighthly and finally, it creates a duty on government to set and achieve at least one new target to drive progress in the priority area of water.

This significant package will work hand in hand with the action that we are taking outside the Bill. Significantly, for the first time, the Government made it crystal clear in our draft strategic policy statement to Ofwat that we expect water companies to take steps to “significantly reduce ... storm overflows”, and that we expect funding to be approved for them to do so. These are not just warm words: the price review is the mechanism by which funding for the water companies and their priorities are determined. This is our biggest lever to clamp down on sewage discharges from storm overflows.

Significant investment has been unlocked on storm overflows in the current price review period 2020-25. Water companies will invest £7.1 billion on environmental improvements in England; of this, £3.1 billion will be invested in storm overflow improvements. This is supplemented by an additional £606 million as part of the green recovery announcement. We have also committed to reviewing the case for implementing Schedule 3 to the Flood and Water Management Act 2010 in England, which would set mandatory build standards for sustainable drainage schemes on new developments, something that numerous noble Lords called for in Committee. In August 2020, we established the Storm Overflows Taskforce—indeed, it was my colleague, Rebecca Pow, who was here a second ago, who established it—to bring together key stakeholders from the water industry, environmental NGOs, regulators and government to drive progress in reducing sewage discharges. That task force has agreed a long-term goal to eliminate harm from storm overflows.

I and my colleagues across government have been clear that we are determined to tackle the harm from storm overflows and stop untreated sewage flowing into our rivers, lakes and seas. Last Wednesday, the Government and their Back-Benchers actively voted into the Bill six pages of new law directly on storm overflows. To imply that the Government and their Back-Benchers are voting to dump sewage into our rivers is factually incorrect. However, all that said, we have listened carefully to the feeling in the other place and this House and among the wider public. I am absolutely delighted to confirm that the Government will bring forward an amendment in lieu in the Commons at the next stage; it will place a direct legal duty on water companies to progressively reduce the adverse impact of storm overflows.

I want to heap thanks on my right honourable friend Philip Dunne and other Members in the other place who have spoken so strongly about this issue, in Parliament and on broadcast media. Indeed, they have driven action in their own constituencies. I am delighted to say that Philip Dunne has indicated that he is in agreement with the Government on the wording of our proposed amendment, which will follow the clear direction already set by the Government’s draft strategic policy statement to Ofwat, published in July, that we expect water companies to take steps to

“significantly reduce the frequency and volume of sewage discharges from storm overflows”.

We cannot accept the amendment proposed by the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, as it is, but I assure noble Lords that the Government’s amendment in lieu will deliver the same action in reducing sewage discharges into our rivers. We cannot accept the amendment exactly as drafted, since we need to ensure integration with other legislation, including new measures in the Bill and existing duties in the Water Industry Act 1991. For example, although we absolutely support the noble Duke’s premise, his amendment does not dock in with the enforcement regime in the Water Industry Act or the range of enforcement remedies available to Ofwat within that Act. Consistency with the draft strategic policy statement to Ofwat and Ofwat’s price review mechanism is also important. Aligning the new duty with the existing framework in this way will ensure that the price review does its job, balancing the need for investment with the need to protect customers from disproportionate prices.

I thank again noble Lords across this House and Members of the other place, in particular the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, and the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, but many others as well. I hope that noble Lords will be able to support our position today. I look forward to setting out more detail before the Bill returns to the other place.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, in view of the Minister’s remarks, I should intervene briefly. The noble Baroness just made the crucial point that there appears to have been a major change of government policy. Let us not delude ourselves: that is because of the strength of parliamentary and public opinion. We have been doing our job in making it clear that the disgraceful situation which my noble friend Lord West, the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, and others have referred to, should not continue.

The Minister was so busy criticising me that he did not say explicitly that he is accepting the amendment in the name of the noble Duke. Are the Government accepting it? I see that the noble Baroness is shaking her head. Is it the case that they are not accepting the amendment? So we will have to vote. That is quite a significant point. The Government are still not in a situation where they are clearly accepting what the noble Duke said. The Government could, procedurally, accept the amendment in the name of the noble Duke, it would go back, and they could then move a further amendment.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I will give the noble Lord an answer. The Government encourage the noble Duke, the Duke of Westminster—I have done it again. I will go to jail voluntarily after this. The Government encourage the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, to press his amendment to a Division. The reason for doing so is because we will then be able to send it back to the House of Commons so that the Commons can then table our amendment in lieu. I would have thought the noble Lord would be aware of that and I suspect—in the same way that he continues to send absurd messages on Twitter in the last few minutes—that he probably already knew the answer.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, I am well aware of the procedure of the House; I have been here rather longer than the noble Lord. The question is whether the Government are accepting it. Are they going to vote? No? So they are not voting. If they are not voting, that means that the amendment in the name of the noble Duke will go back to the House of Commons, and the right thing to do then is for it to be accepted or for them to move whatever technical changes they want.

On the substance of this issue, obviously the House congratulates the noble Duke on the stand he has taken. It is because of that stand that we are in this position this evening. On the business of criticisms of the Minister, let us make this very clear. Speaker after speaker in this debate has pointed out that unless there is this duty—an actual duty on water companies to reduce these illegal or unacceptable discharges—the current unsatisfactory position would not only continue but would probably get worse. The noble Earl referred to this.

With the scale of further development, the cutback of two-thirds in the Environment Agency—I am not giving way to the noble Lord; he can make his own remarks in a moment if he wishes to. I was criticised by the Minister so it is perfectly reasonable that I should reply. There has been a cutback of two-thirds in the staff of the Environment Agency over the last 10 years. In addition, the new guidance from the Environment Agency says that because of Brexit—yes, Brexit—where water companies cannot get the chemicals they need because of the HGV crisis, they are allowed exemptions from current rules. For all those reasons there is very good reason to believe that without the amendment in the name of the noble Duke, the situation would get worse and not better. My statement was clear, that without the change which the noble Duke is proposing, the situation over which the Government are presiding—the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith, is the Minister responsible—would get worse.

We are doing the right thing in supporting the noble Duke. The House has shown itself in its best lights in supporting him so strongly, I am glad that the Government have come to this position and now, I hope, they will start moving in the right direction rather than the wrong direction.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

In the interests of time, and due to the fact that noble Lords have made important contributions to this debate, I hope that your Lordships will not be too disappointed that I have decided to completely tear up my speech. Instead, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, for giving us the opportunity to return to the important issue of protecting pollinators from pesticides. I also thank the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, for his tenaciousness in continuing to press the Government on this very important matter and for making serious progress. If he wishes to test the opinion of the House, he will have our full support, but I hope that the Government will not vote against.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank noble Lords again for their contributions to this debate. I will briefly address Amendment 43B. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, for, as I understand it, agreeing not to press her amendment—I hope I have not pre-empted a decision—but more importantly, for her work on this vital issue. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, that she has been very effective at raising this issue on the agenda. I am grateful to her for that, and I hope we will be able to continue to work together on this issue as we develop a robust pesticide action plan. I thank her very much indeed.

Much has already been said regarding storm overflows, so I will keep it brief. I thank Members across the House and in the other place for their informed, valuable and passionate contributions. I am pleased that we were able to announce progress today. In response to the noble Baroness on the Front Bench I say that, while the Government must vote against this amendment today, for procedural reasons and to ensure that the House of Commons has an opportunity to deliver the proposed amendment in lieu, that is not a reflection of an ideological difference; it is simply a procedural issue.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked a number of questions, in particular about a timeline for the implementation of Schedule 3. It has already commenced and will be completed in 2022; I cannot give a month, I am afraid.

I very much appreciate the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb. On the costs that she talked about, there is a difference between the cost of eliminating harm from overflows and the cost of eliminating overflows. It is the cost of eliminating overflows to which those figures apply. I will not pretend that I have been through the figures myself but, based on everything that I know, the range is anywhere between £150 billion and £500 billion. In real terms, it is not a relevant figure, in that no one is proposing that this amount of money should be spent on infrastructure. The key is the elimination of harm, which would allow the overflow to happen in some cases and for investment in sustainable systems such as reed beds and the like. That would not be the elimination of overflows but it would be effective management of them. It is, however, the correct figure for eliminating overflows.

The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, asked a question on the chemical issue. Again, it is not the case that there is a shortage of chemicals preventing the water companies doing their job. There is currently no disruption to the supply of water, water treatment or the treatment of wastewater. The shortage of HGV drivers had meant that there was a risk that deliveries of ferric sulphate, a water treatment chemical, would be delayed, but the Environment Agency successfully and very quickly mitigated that risk.

On Amendment 65, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, I assure noble Lords that the Government will publish a nature recovery Green Paper in the coming months, setting out our approach to supporting nature recovery in England. It will show our commitment to and focus on this matter, which I know is enormously important to almost everyone in this House.

On Amendments 94 and 95, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, I reiterate that we will not have in one year meaningful data with which to assess the effectiveness of this legislation. However, the disagreement that we have is entirely practical; it is not based on our hopes for the effectiveness of this legislation. As I said before, if it is clear before two years that something bad has happened and the Government have chosen to exploit or create a loophole, we will act long before the review deadline of two years. It will be very obvious to us should that be necessary.

Moving on to Motion K, although I ask the House to disagree to Amendment 66, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Young, I very much appreciate her remarks and her commitment to the issue; she has pushed it right up the political agenda in a very effective way. I hope that your Lordships’ House will welcome the Government’s progress and the commitment to enhancing the protection of ancient woodlands, on which the noble Baroness and I have agreed, I am delighted to say.

On Motion M, I hope that noble Lords can support the Commons in its Amendments 67A to 67E, which will provide further reassurance to landowners on the issue of conservation governance.

I hope noble Lords agree that, in addition to the progress made in Committee and on Report, we have moved further today to protect our waters, our trees and our landscapes for future generations.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord for his comments, and I beg leave to withdraw Motion H1.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 45A (to Lords Amendment 45).

45A: Leave out lines 7 to 14

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 65, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 65A.

65A: Because the powers conferred by clauses 105 and 106 should not be limited in the manner proposed.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 66, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 66A.

66A: Because the National Planning Policy Framework and the Forestry Commission and Natural England’s standing advice already make provision to protect ancient woodland in England.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 67 and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 67A, 67B, 67C, 67D and 67E in lieu.

67A: Clause 110, page 109, line 13, leave out “in writing signed” and insert “executed as a deed”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 75 and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 75A and 75B in lieu.

75A: Schedule 3, page 155, leave out lines 12 to 14

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 85, do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 85A, 85B and 85C in lieu and do propose Amendment 85D as an amendment to Commons Amendment 85B and Amendment 85E as an amendment to Commons Amendment 85C—

85A: Clause 54, page 32, line 39, leave out “plastic”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 94, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 94A.

94A: Because the timetable for the Secretary of State’s review of legislation relating to forest risk commodities should not be brought forward.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 95, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 95A.

95A: Because the timetable for the Secretary of State’s review of legislation relating to forest risk commodities should not be brought forward.

COVID-19 Pandemic in Latin America

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, for tabling this important debate and for her continued interest in the region. She made a very compelling speech. I thank all noble Lords for their insightful contributions.

This is a timely debate. While some countries are, happily, starting to see a return to a more normal life, Latin America is the region hardest hit by the pandemic. The effect has been devastating. While home to just under one-tenth of the world’s population, Latin America accounts for nearly one-third of all reported Covid-19 deaths and one-fifth of confirmed cases. Covid-19 has increased poverty, plunged the region into recession and set back economic growth by a decade in some countries. That, in turn, impacts the region’s health and education systems and, worryingly, it also increases reticence about the climate change commitments that much of the world is signing up to.

The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, focused particularly on the process of recovery. The UK is playing its part to help the region recover. In answer to her question, we are championing access to vaccines through COVAX and encouraging scientific exchange in areas such as genome sequencing. We are mobilising climate finance at COP 26 and pursuing trade agreements so that our shared future can flourish.

Latin America is an important partner for the UK’s global ambitions. From climate change and nature, economics and trade, democracy and human rights, we work with the region on countless priorities set out in the integrated review. With many countries aligned with UK values, three members of the G20 and Mexico, currently a non-permanent member of the UN Security Council—Brazil will join in January—we have strong strategic allies right across Latin America.

The Foreign Secretary visited Mexico in the first week of her new role. She held discussions to strengthen our trading relationship, deepen our economic partnership and tackle climate change together, in support of our shared values.

I have recently returned from a trip to Peru and Colombia, where I saw for myself the devastating impact of Covid in the region. The pandemic has plunged Latin America into an economic recession. Regional GDP fell last year by 7% and predicted growth is below what we would expect from emerging economies. In two decades, before the start of the pandemic, the number of people living in poverty in the region had fallen by nearly half, but Covid has driven a significant reversal of that progress. By the end of last year, 78 million people were estimated to be living in extreme poverty in the countries of Latin America—an increase of 8 million people since the pandemic began.

Where inequalities existed before, the pandemic has cut the deepest. An increase in unemployment in the region has hit the most vulnerable the hardest, including women, young workers and migrants. It has worsened the plight of many of the nearly 6 million refugees and migrants who have fled the Maduro regime in Venezuela. The majority have sought safe haven in neighbouring countries where, notwithstanding the welcome that they have been given, many go hungry. Mandatory school closures have lasted longer than in any other region of the world. Around 100 million students in Latin America have been affected. Some, especially the most vulnerable, may never make up this loss in education. The World Bank estimates that this could cost the region $1.7 trillion in lost future income.

Many countries were ill-prepared for virtual education, and a lack of access to the internet for many, especially those in rural areas, widened the gap even more between those from the poorest households and the most fortunate. Health systems are being pushed to their limits. In Mexico and Colombia, the recent third wave put pressure on hospitals that were already exhausted from the last 18 months. In Peru, which as we have heard has suffered the worst cumulative per capita death rate globally, the pandemic has pushed the healthcare system to breaking point.

The only way that the world is going to bring this pandemic under control is through widespread immunisation, using all available safe and effective vaccines, and the UK is playing its part. We are at the forefront of the international response to Covid-19, through our commitments to COVAX, Gavi and the World Health Organization. The UK’s early support of the AstraZeneca vaccine has been instrumental, and that vaccine is now produced locally in Mexico, Argentina and Brazil. The three countries are expected to produce around 250 million doses for the region this year.

Two-thirds of the population of Latin America have now received their first dose of the vaccine, up from just a fifth two months ago. In some countries the effects of the vaccine are beginning to bring cases down, and the overall picture in the region is finally improving. I was delighted that a fortnight ago we were able to move most Latin and Caribbean countries off our coronavirus list. However, some countries remain vulnerable to further waves of Covid-19, and those with low vaccination rates are particularly vulnerable.

In response to a question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, all Latin American countries that are no longer on the red list, apart from Brazil and Chile, are awaiting verification of their vaccine certification. Until international standards are agreed globally, we will review each country’s certificate to ensure that it meets our minimum data requirements. She also asked about accelerating patents, as in the case of the AIDS retrovirals. I am afraid that I cannot give her an answer. The question is best directed to the Department of Health, and I will convey it to the department and will respond as soon as I can.

This is one of the reasons why we will continue to share our learning from the UK rollout with partners in the region and, most importantly, work together to control new variants. In Brazil, for example, we are doing this with a new variant assessment platform, working in partnership with the Brazilian Government to ensure that UK expertise helps to boost genomic sequencing capability in the country. We hope to work with more countries in the region to support this work and strengthen sequencing capability, so that we all have a better understanding of the variants as they arise.

The recent changes to the red list demonstrate that the UK is taking a scientific, country-by-country approach to these decisions. I recognise the real personal and economic impact for many people living in red list countries—a point made well by my noble friend Lady Hooper—who want to travel, who depend on the tourism industry for their livelihoods, who are businesspeople, students and more. The decision to keep countries on the red list, or to move them off it, is one that affects us far more widely: not just in our trade and prosperity partnerships but in our ability to deliver an in-person and inclusive COP 26 next month. We want to work alongside important partners, many of them in Latin America—Brazil, Mexico and Colombia—while also ensuring the safety and security of all participants.

As the scientific picture changes, we will continue to keep the list under regular review, but our priority must be to protect the health of the UK public. We will do that by continuing to take full account of scientific evidence, while balancing the advantages and risks of reopening our borders.

In the meantime, we are working with partners in the Latin American region to help them recover and rebuild. The UK is not only supporting vaccine supply but has been working with countries such as Brazil and Mexico to strengthen their health systems through the UK’s Better Health programme. I saw for myself in Peru how UK companies’ expertise is supporting the country to rebuild schools, hospitals and river defences after the devastating effects of flooding caused by El Niño four years ago.

Even through the pandemic, the UK has been working with countries across the region to help them to become more resilient and adapt to these extreme weather events. Through the UK PACT Green Recovery Challenge Fund, for example, the UK has funded projects in Brazil, Peru and Argentina, supporting greening financial systems and nature-based solutions. That includes deforestation-free cattle ranching in Peru, promoting green finance for sustainable development in Argentina and building climate risk assessment into the credit operations of Brazilian development banks.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I hope I was about to answer the noble Lord’s point about our support for Peru—a point that he made well. In 2020—last year—the UK signed a second Government-to-Government agreement with Peru to support the delivery of what we estimate will be a £1.6 billion infrastructure programme to rebuild schools and hospitals in the northern regions affected by El Niño-related flooding and landslides in 2017. UK businesses are already providing technical assistance while transferring the required knowledge to Peruvian experts so they can develop similar projects in future. This is an example—I do not pretend to be an expert but I did witness much of this—of the UK using its skills and relatively small sums of finance to leverage far greater support for that country. If the noble Lord does not mind, I will come to a broader point about future support for Peru in just a few moments, and I will combine that with an answer to the noble Baroness as well.

Ahead of COP next month, we have especially encouraged ambitious climate commitments. Latin America suffers the severe weather effects of climate change just as surely as its rainforests hold so many of the solutions. The region must therefore make its voice heard at COP 26 in support of ambitious climate targets.

I think it was the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, who mentioned Costa Rica. It may not have been, in which case I apologise for not having made a note of who made that comment. Whoever it was, I strongly agree with them. I apologise; it was my noble friend Lady Hooper. She is absolutely right: Costa Rica provides an example for the world. It has managed to incorporate concern for and a focus on the environment with economic growth. It managed to double its canopy in just over a generation and has grown its economy at the same time. It has gone from pretty low in the league table to being pretty high in the region, and I do not think that is a coincidence.

Colombia, which I recently visited, is also showing extraordinary leadership on both climate change and the environment, not only in addressing, halting and reversing forest loss in the Amazon but in combining those efforts with attempts to strengthen the peace process that began just a few years ago. Again, I saw examples—

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

The Minister spoke about the need to approve a certificate from Colombia. Is he able to say whether the UK does that in isolation from others around the world, or is it that we are part and parcel of a global approach in approving, for example, the certificate specifically from Colombia?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Viscount for his question. I hope I am not wrong in saying that the UK has now recognised the vaccine certificates for Colombia; that has happened. Colombia remains on the red list, but this means that when it comes off that list, it ought to be a relatively smooth transition. I hope I will not have to correct the record on that, but I do not think I will.

I was amazed by some of the projects that are happening in Colombia, which combine efforts to raise living standards and reinforce the peace process by involving those people who are very much involved in conflict in this global endeavour to restore and protect nature, and which are doing so in an extraordinarily successful way. I really hope we will be able to step up our efforts in that region and beyond in support of a series of truly world-leading initiatives.

Increasing trade in the region is also essential to overcome the unprecedented economic challenges caused by the pandemic. Opening up markets, unlocking business opportunities and sharing British business expertise will benefit both the region and of course the UK. The UK has negotiated continuity trade agreements in the region with Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, Mexico and the countries of Central America.

In Mexico, we will soon be starting negotiations on a new ambitious free trade agreement to support jobs, opportunities and prosperity right across the UK in industries that will shape the future of the global economy and secure better access for British goods and services. Our ambition to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership is also important for UK interests in the region.

The UK is acutely aware of the devastating impacts that the pandemic has had on the lives of many individuals and the economies of countries across Latin America. It has widened inequalities and pushed back—

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

I know the Minister is running out of time, but he did say he was going to address this, so I would be happy if he will write to me with the forward ODA plans. However, I would be very happy if he would say, on the record, at the Dispatch Box, that the unattributed briefing to the Financial Times that Latin America is now lower down on the Foreign Secretary’s priorities is wrong. If he can say that, I would be very happy.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. The rule is that we do not respond to leaks of that sort—actually, I do not know the leak he is referring to—but I can tell him that it is a priority of mine as a Minister in the Foreign Office and someone with a particular concern for climate change and the environment that we ramp up our support for those initiatives that I just described, not just in Colombia but beyond. I can only say that I sincerely hope that the briefing is wrong—I believe it is wrong and I think it would be wrong, in fact, were that to be the case. It was a point I was going to make to the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, in terms of our involvement and our offer for Colombia, Peru and the wider Amazon region.

I will briefly address a couple of points. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, that we are doing what we can to integrate our diplomacy and our development programmes to deliver a much bigger and better impact. I make my final point to the noble Baroness, Lady Blower. Of course, we are appalled by the reports of human rights violations and the deaths of environmental defenders in Colombia and elsewhere.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

And trade unionists.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

And trade unionists, of course. While these are the result of criminality within that country—a legacy, perhaps, of some of the difficulties that are beginning to subside, but nevertheless have really wracked Colombia for some time—these are not the consequences of malignant action by government. I raised this issue when I spoke to President Duque a week or so ago and it was very clear to me that he and his Government are doing what they can to get to grips with the issues that the noble Baroness raised so well. Although it is not entirely clear how we can help, certainly the offer from the UK is on the table to provide what support we can to enable the Government to get to grips with the problem, which is clearly tragic on so many levels. My colleagues and I raise these issues on a regular basis, but I believe that by supporting some of the initiatives that I hinted at earlier, albeit briefly, we have an opportunity in the UK to provide very meaningful support to the Government of Colombia in strengthening and extending and making that peace process endure.

On that note, I thank noble Lords for their contributions—

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

Before the noble Lord sits down, will he undertake to write to me with answers to the few questions I asked that he has not been able to cover in his reply?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

I do apologise: I thought I had left this debate with a clean sheet, but I clearly have not, so I undertake to scan the record tomorrow and to respond to any questions from the noble Baroness that remain unanswered. I pay tribute to her for her speech, for initiating this debate and for her work in the region.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, that concludes the Question for Short Debate business.

Water and Sewerage Undertakers (Exit from Non-household Retail Market) (Consequential Provision) Regulations 2021

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Water and Sewerage Undertakers (Exit from Non-household Retail Market) (Consequential Provision) Regulations 2021.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the technical amendments in this instrument, which was laid before the House on 21 July, amend the Water Industry Act 1991 to reapply developer service duties to water and sewerage undertakers —generally known as water companies—operating in retail exit areas wholly or mainly in England.

As part of competition introduced into the water sector, a “retail exit area” is where a water company, such as Thames Water, has transferred its “retail”—business or non-household—customers, such as supermarkets, to a separate company or “retailer”. The retailer liaises with Thames Water for the water and sewerage services to be provided to the business customer and the retailer bills the business customer for the services and offers it advice on how to improve its use of water.

This market allows business customers to have all their water and sewerage services looked after by one retailer, saving them time and money in dealing with billing for these services. This was not possible when water companies dealt with business customers directly. The market also enables retailers to work directly with housing developers for their water and sewerage services, which they need when building new homes, as housing developers are of course also businesses.

To set up the developer services for retailers, we disapplied some water company duties through the Water and Sewerage Undertakers (Exit from Non-household Retail Market) Regulations 2016. These disapplications have had unintended consequences for developer services, which is why we are now seeking to reapply the duties and to set up developer services for retailers in a slightly different way. I should make it clear that all the amendments introduced by this instrument are therefore technical operability amendments and do not introduce any policy changes.

The Water Industry Act 1991 is the principal piece of legislation setting out the duties and functions of water companies in England and Wales. The retail market is a devolved matter and the 2016 regulations applied to English water companies only. The market opened in April 2017, but water companies did not all transfer business customers to retailers when the market opened. The last water company to transfer its business customers to a retailer was in 2019. The effects of the way in which the developer services market was set up were therefore not fully realised for a few years after market opening.

When setting up the market for developer services, Defra recognised that some developers might still wish to work with the water company for the housing developer services, for example. We envisaged that housing developers choosing this route would make their own contractual arrangements with the company. However, in subsequent discussions with Ofwat, the economic regulator of the water industry, and with the water industry itself, it emerged that contractual arrangements are not straightforward. They do not sufficiently replicate the water company duties within the 1991 Act that were disapplied and the unintended consequences include Ofwat no longer being able to determine complaints from a housing developer about the developer services provided, as well as water companies having restricted access to water and sewerage pipes to maintain them.

Retailers are also choosing largely not to be part of the developer services market, for two principal reasons. The first is that, due to the technical nature of developer services and the expertise required, retailers are generally not big enough to be able to provide that. Secondly, as most residents of new developments are household rather than business customers, the retailer does all the work to get the water and sewerage connections made but then must transfer the household business to the water company, so the retailer does not increase its customer numbers.

--- Later in debate ---

I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. If nothing else, it has highlighted the complexity of the water industry and the legislation which governs it.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh takes a very keen interest in this issue, as I have discovered since taking part in these debates. The right to connect is an issue that she has raised before and which has been discussed at length in connection with the concerns raised during the passage of the Environment Bill over storm overflows, in particular the right to connect surface water drains to foul sewers. This is outside the remit of developer services and these regulations, which concern only the construction of new sewers and the connecting of new homes to wastewater sewer services. However, in providing developer services, water companies will often proactively discuss with the developer how they will drain their sites, suggesting ways to avoid connecting surface water drains to foul sewers.

The issue of possible failure is being considered as part of the post-implementation review, and Defra is reviewing SuDS as part of our review of Schedule 3. My noble friend raised the issue of retailer involvement. Some retailers have been involved with the new connections but mainly with retail developments. Most retailers are referring developers to water companies.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, raised issues around network capacity. Amending the duties to reference capacity would effectively be a new duty on water companies and would therefore also be out of the scope of these regulations. Also, reapplying Section 98 would also reapply Sections 99 and 100, which concern the financial arrangements regarding any new public sewer. Section 100(4) enables the water company to include in the costs charged to the developer the costs reasonably incurred in providing new public sewers and any reasonable proportion of costs incurred to provide additional capacity in existing sewers that have been constructed in the previous 12 years.

My noble friend also raised the issue of drainage and sewerage plans. Plans are currently being produced now for drainage and sewerage management. Draft plans will be consulted on in April next year, and these are currently non-statutory. My noble friend asked whether the Consumer Council has responded to the consultation. The answer is yes. We also spoke at length with Water UK, which agreed with the changes.

Many of the hugely important issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, were debated during the passage of the Environment Bill. She raised the case of Southern Water, whose pollution of our waterways has been met with a reaction from the courts, leading to fines and so on. The regulatory regime that governs water companies and the pollution of waters and rivers is an issue that has been raised effectively by my noble friend the Duke of Wellington through various amendments. There is no doubt that the water companies will have to step up and that Defra will have to take a more robust approach to dealing with them. I do not think that anyone in the country regards the pouring of raw sewage into our waterways as a routine matter, as opposed to an emergency situation for the prevention of deaths. It is not acceptable, and that is our view in Defra.

We have been working closely, and discussions will continue, with my noble friend the Duke of Westminster —the Duke of Wellington. I can only apologise to my noble friend, for the fourth time; it is becoming a tick that I cannot rid myself of. Someone is playing games with me.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

Not me.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

It is my noble friend Lady Bloomfield.

I look forward to meeting my noble friend the Duke of Wellington shortly to discuss progress on some of the issues that he raised.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, raised the devolved nations. Scotland has its own process; Wales does not have a retail system in place. We are exploring the Scottish process with it, as part of the post-implementation review.

The noble Baroness also raised the issue of water companies providing the developer services. Water companies have provided services, in discussions with developers, and ensure that discussions about connections to sewers and SUDS provision occur to reduce surface water being sent to public sewers.

I think that I have answered the questions that were raised, so I will close there. All the changes introduced by this instrument, as the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, noted, are technical, operability amendments required to ensure that we are able to continue to operate the regulations and the retail market appropriately. They make no changes to water retail policy for developer services; they just enable us to refine our legislative approach to how we deliver them. I therefore commend the draft regulations to the House.

Motion agreed.