International Atomic Energy Agency (Immunities and Privileges) (Amendment) Order 2023

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Wednesday 28th June 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That the Grand Committee do consider the International Atomic Energy Agency (Immunities and Privileges) (Amendment) Order 2023.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

This instrument was laid before Parliament on 5 June, in accordance with Section 10(1) of the International Organisations Act 1968. A correction was made on 7 June to amend an error in a date referenced in the order. It is subject to the affirmative procedure and will be made once it is approved by both Houses before being put to the Privy Council.

The order’s primary purpose is to correct an omission in the privileges and immunities granted to the International Atomic Energy Agency—also referred to as the IAEA or the agency—under the 1974 order. In the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the International Atomic Energy Agency 1959, signed by the UK in 1961, the UK agreed to provide privileges and immunities to representatives of agency members attending any international conference, symposium, seminar or panel convened by the agency. This language was not entirely reflected in the subsequent 1974 order. The proposed amendment allows the UK to fulfil its obligations to provide privileges and immunities to representatives of members attending agency-convened events in the UK. The amendment also clarifies that representatives of members as defined in the 1959 agreement includes

“governors of the Agency’s Board of Governors and representatives, alternates, advisers, technical experts and secretaries of delegations”.

The Government consider these privileges and immunities both necessary and appropriate to deliver on the interests and commitments that the UK has towards the agency. They are within the scope of the International Organisations Act and in line with UK precedents. The amending order confers no new privileges and immunities but expands the range of meetings where they apply, in line with the 1959 agreement. The provisions of that agreement have previously been applied operationally and meetings of the agency have been held in the UK without incident. However, we cannot continue to bear the risk of our domestic legislation provisions being at odds with our international treaty obligations. It is therefore right that this amending order be passed to allow the UK to fully meet its commitment to provide privileges and immunities to representatives of members attending agency meetings in the UK.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for his introduction. I am extremely grateful for his very helpful letter of 12 June explaining why such agreements sometimes differ between different international organisations in how they are set out. I hope that a copy was placed in the Library of the House.

The noble Lord quite rightly pointed out that this instrument corrects discrepancies in a 1974 order which implemented a 1959 immunities agreement giving immunities and privileges across a range of events. I have one basic question: I looked in the Explanatory Memorandum to better understand why it has taken almost 50 years to realise the error. Could the Minister offer an explanation? It may be rather straightforward, but I could not see it in there. This struck me: if this error has been brought to the department’s attention, was anyone impacted by it, and do we need to address anything around detriment to an individual?

I was also grateful to the Minister for pointing out the importance of the 29th Fusion Energy Conference, which will be hosted by the IAEA in London in October, and the range of people who will be attending. Can he tell us a bit more about what the Government are doing to prepare and to offer support to ensure that the conference is successful? I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I am grateful to noble Lords who have contributed to this discussion. In a sense, this legislation is part of our preparation for the event. It is a requirement for us in order to be able to meet our internationally agreed obligations. It is worth pointing out that the privileges and immunities granted to representatives of member states are a requirement of the UK hosting IAEA events. Ministers have looked at the requirement, and I believe a number of questions were raised in the other place about certain countries being involved. Ministers and officials have considered the requirement and any possible associated risk but, as host of the event, the UK has to honour the invitations to all 176 members. As a consequence, we expect a high attendance. We think there will be between 1,000 and 2,000 delegates, although clearly, we do not yet know how many there will be.

On the question about the devolved Administrations— I will come back to how the error was spotted—the 1974 order and the amending order extend to the whole of the UK, but there are some provisions that do not apply in Scotland. The opportunity has been taken to clarify which of the provisions in the 1974 order will apply to Scotland in so far as they are within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. Article 2 inserts new Article 3A into the 1974 order, which clarifies that position. A separate Scottish Order in Council will therefore be prepared in respect of those amendments within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. It will be laid before the Scottish Parliament soon.

The error was spotted only recently—I think because of the organisation in the run-up to the event that we have been discussing. I believe that it was the colleague sitting behind me who spotted the error. It was immediately agreed that the correction should be made to ensure that we comply with international law.

On the agency itself, the IAEA is a key partner for the UK for all the reasons that I described in my opening remarks. Its work to promote nuclear technologies and ensure that they are peaceful, safe and secure is key for countering proliferation, preventing accidents and facilitating the use of nuclear power for energy security and climate goals. I know the Committee has a keen interest in the UK’s relationship with the IAEA. As has been noted, passing this amendment will correct a historic error and ensure that we are able to meet our international obligations. It will enable us to successfully host the event that we have discussed in this exchange. That just leaves me to thank the Committee for its time and questions.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

Will the Minister answer my supplementary question about whether there has been any impact?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My understanding is that there has been no impact. I looked over my shoulder to confirm that and I got a nod, so I believe that I am right in saying that there has been no impact. The provisions had previously been applied operationally, and meetings of the agency have been held in the UK without any incident. However, the judgment is that we cannot continue indefinitely to bear the risk of our domestic legislation being at odds with our international treaty obligations. There have been no incidents. With that, I trust that the Committee will support the order.

Motion agreed.

International Widows Day

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Loomba (CB)]

My Lords, in begging leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, I declare my interest as a founder and chairman trustee of the Loomba Foundation.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK recognises that widows can face multiple forms of abuse, stigmatisation and hardship following the loss of their partner. The FCDO’s new international women and girls strategy will support grass-roots, women-led civil society organisations to reach the most marginalised women and girls. Using the full range of the FCDO’s levers, we are challenging harmful social norms and advocating for gender-focused policies, systems and laws that support women and girls’ rights, freedom and potential.

[Lord Loomba (CB)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Given the critical importance of eradicating discrimination against widows to achieving the UN sustainable development goals of ending poverty and hunger, achieving gender equality, reducing inequalities and creating sustainable communities, will the Government continue their long-standing support of the campaign to achieve justice for widows, in particular through British expertise and research to help UN member states develop and implement effective, evidence-based policies and programmes?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, under the strategy I mentioned in my Answer, the FCDO will continue to stand up and speak out for women and girls’ rights and freedoms on the global stage and in our bilateral relationships. It also commits us to ensuring that at least 80% of the FCDO’s bilateral aid has a focus on gender equality by the end of this decade. We will target that investment towards the main life stages of women and girls to secure lifelong, intergenerational impact and strengthen political, economic and social systems that play an important role in protecting and empowering women and girls.

[Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend has stated, widows suffer particular discrimination in so many countries of the world. I am delighted to hear that we offer them special help, but can he give us a bit more detail about this, especially in the area of property rights? All too often, families will seize their property and cast them out.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I will struggle to provide details on the property issue, but it is certainly true that the UK rightly recognises that older widows in particular face a wide range of discrimination. That is why the international women and girls strategy adopts a life-course approach, targeting investment at the key life stages of women and girls to ensure that we secure the greatest possible intergenerational impacts.

[Lord Hussain (LD)]

My Lords, in Indian-administered Kashmir, tens of thousands of men and women are being held in custody for long periods of time under notorious laws such as the Public Safety Act. There are as many as 3,000 women known as “half-widows”, whose husbands either were picked up by the Indian forces or have gone missing in mysterious circumstances. Their families do not know their whereabouts and these half-widows are living under huge distress, fear and agony. Will the Minister raise the release of these men, or at least informing their families of their whereabouts, with the Indian authorities?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I will certainly convey that message and request to the Minister for Asia. We are proud that the UK is recognised as a global leader in tackling violence against women and girls in all its forms, by pioneering approaches around the world that have shown measurable reductions in violence of around 50%, proving that violence against women and girls is preventable. We are investing up to £67.5 million in the “What Works to Prevent Violence” programme, which will systematically scale up proven approaches to prevent violence against women and girls worldwide.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, on all his work on behalf on International Widows Day, his ongoing work with the review and the Loomba Foundation’s work on the World Widows Report. That recent report focused on how important the SDGs are to the welfare of widows. Unfortunately, the last national voluntary review we conducted in 2019 into implementing the SDGs did not mention widows at all, or the specific problems that the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, mentioned. When are we likely to see the second voluntary national review? Will it include the important work that the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, has drawn such important attention to?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I echo the noble Lord’s compliments in recognition of the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, for the work his foundation has done. The noble Lord is right to make the point that, in many respects, the sustainable development goals are particularly relevant to women and girls, especially elderly women. I am afraid that the second national review is something I am not directly involved in, so I do not know when it will be produced. I have very little doubt that when it is produced, it will encompass all the issues raised in both the previous questions.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, at the heart of this Question is the status of women and the recognition of all the work that has yet to be done to improve their status in every country across the world. Can the Minister assure the House that the Government are doing everything they can to address these issues?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, at the Commission on the Status of Women in March 2019, the UK directly helped secure the first-ever UN-level recognition of the need to invest in adequate measures to protect and support widows. The UK also helped to ensure that widows’ rights were recognised in the 2022 Commission on the Status of Women’s agreed conclusions.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, we know that widows are some of the poorest and least economically empowered people in the world, particularly in developing countries. What effect has the cut in the foreign aid budget from 0.7% of GDP to 0.5% had on widows specifically?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, it is difficult to work out exactly how much of the funding directed towards women and girls is focused specifically on widows. That number does not exist, and I am not sure it could exist. However, the work of women’s rights organisations and movements is critical to advancing gender equality. It was calculated that in 2021-22, just over 1% of the total global figure dedicated to gender equality—a figure of $56.5 billion—went to those women’s rights organisations and movements on the ground. That is something we are challenging in our own work bilaterally, but also through the multilateral institutions.

Sudan

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the security and humanitarian situation in Sudan; and the adequacy of international assistance to those who have sought refuge in neighbouring countries.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, 25 million people need humanitarian assistance in Sudan. Over 1.9 million people are internally displaced and 600,000 have fled due to the current violence. The scale of need is great, access is limited and the UN appeals are underfunded. The UK continues to work with international partners to secure an end to hostilities and to ensure that aid reaches those in need in Sudan and those who have fled, and that neighbouring countries can keep their borders open.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, there are widespread concerns that the conflict in West Darfur between the Sudanese armed forces and the Rapid Support Forces—apparently supplied with land-to-air missiles by the Wagner Group—is leading the region into another genocide. There are already credible reports of the RSF targeting non-Arab populations. Can my noble friend tell the House what the Government have been doing, as a member of the Friends of Sudan international group, to encourage the African Union to take action now to ensure that there is a credible truce, instead of engaging and providing temporary ceasefires, which really only prolong the whole conflict?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right to identify the escalating violence and displacement in Darfur. There has been a big increase following the outbreak of hostilities on 15 April. It is believed that 280,000 people are now internally displaced, and the lack of humanitarian access into and within Darfur continues to make the work of humanitarian organisations very difficult indeed. The UK Government’s engagement with the African Union has been extensive: the Prime Minister, the Minister for Development and Africa, the Foreign Secretary and numerous senior officials engage frequently with counterparts across the region, but particularly with the African Union.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I reinforce the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, about the position in Darfur. Twenty years ago this year, I visited Geneina in West Darfur; some 200,000 to 300,000 people died there, and 2 million people were displaced. Has the Minister seen this weekend’s statement by the President of Kenya, William Ruto, warning of another impending genocide? Is he aware that, later today, Darfuris resident here in the UK are coming to give evidence in your Lordships’ House about these unfolding events? The 1948 convention on the crime of genocide requires us to prevent and protect, and to punish those responsible. Will we do any better this time than we did last time?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, we are pursuing all diplomatic avenues to try to bring about a cessation of violence, establish humanitarian access and pave the way for meaningful lasting talks. On 29 April, the Minister for Africa went to Kenya, where he met President Ruto and the chairperson of the African Union to discuss this issue. He also visited Egypt in May to discuss Sudan with his counterparts. The Prime Minister, the Minister for Development and Africa, the Foreign Secretary and officials have all engaged frequently with their counterparts in Kenya, Djibouti, South Sudan and Egypt. The Foreign Secretary has directly engaged with the two military leaders to urge a ceasefire.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, earlier this month the mandate of the UN Integrated Transition Assistance Mission in Sudan was extended until December; this follows the agreement of a text drafted by the UK as penholder. Given the fourth strategic objective of the mission includes supporting co-ordination of humanitarian assistance, to which the Minister referred, can he tell us exactly what we are doing to ensure that it is implemented, and give us an update on how the mission can help those fleeing conflict, both internally and externally?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK is active on all the fronts I have already described but, in addition, we are heavily invested in Sudan. Over the last five years we have invested about a quarter of a billion pounds’ worth of aid, and in May this year the Minister for Development and Africa announced a further £21.7 million for Sudan, which is part of a broader £143 million package of humanitarian aid for east Africa. We are heavily invested in the region and will continue to be so.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as I am actively involved in supporting the co-ordination of the civilian voice of the Sudanese and will be returning to the region the week after next to carry out some of this work. The Minister painted the very bleak picture of the humanitarian need of the people of Sudan. Does he agree that civilians—especially the young people and women, who were so remarkably resilient against the previous dictatorship and now have been resilient in this war—are an enormous resource for the co-ordination of humanitarian assistance? Can he outline the work of His Majesty’s Government in supporting the AU’s intergovernmental authority development in the Horn of Africa to ensure that civilians are at the forefront of the co-ordination of this work?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to work with international partners to bring about a permanent cessation of hostilities and that includes through a new African Union-led core group to ensure inclusive regional and international action to secure a viable peace process. It is our view, as it is the noble Lord’s, that a transition to civilian rule is the best and probably only way to deliver peace and prosperity.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister has set out the terrible scale of the humanitarian crisis in the region. Despite the ongoing challenges caused by the conflict, the World Food Programme has managed to assist over 1 million people, but 19 million people are expected to need that assistance by August this year. The UK has long been a trusted partner of the World Food Programme. Can my noble friend set out what support the Government have been able to give the WFP and what they may be able to do in the future?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I am afraid I do not have the figures for the most recent contribution to the World Food Programme, but we are one of the major donors. We have always been one of the major donors and we remain committed to that programme.

[Lord Stirrup (CB)]

My Lords, although it is early days, are the Government making an assessment of the potential impact of the events in Russia over the weekend on the involvement of the Wagner Group with the Rapid Support Forces in Sudan and, indeed, on its criminal activities on the wider international scene?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has repeatedly emphasised, and pointed the finger at, the negative influence of Russian activities in Africa. Russian state and non-state activities in Sudan seek to capitalise on instability for their own interests. The UK Government have repeatedly made clear our concerns over negative Russian activities—including, reportedly, by the Wagner Group—in the exploitation of Sudanese gold resources and in supplying weapons to the Rapid Support Forces. The impacts of recent events in Russia are being assessed in relation to this and other conflicts in Africa, but we are not yet in a position to articulate them.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, given the dire situation in Sudan, what consideration has been given to the creation of safe and legal routes for those seeking to flee to come to the UK?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the question of legal routes is one that I will have to put to the Home Office. Due to the conflict, we had no option but to close the visa application centre in Khartoum, which obviously makes things more difficult when it comes to the movement of people. I will get back to the noble Baroness in writing.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that while humanitarian aid is urgently required for the long-suffering people of Sudan, it is also important to stop the flow of arms getting to the combatants from countries such as Russia, China, Egypt, the UAE and Iran, fuelling the conflict for sordid economic and political gain?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point, which relates to the question I was asked earlier about the nefarious activities sponsored directly or indirectly by Russia. He is right that we continue to invest in solutions in the region, but we are also using every diplomatic lever at our disposal.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I am not quite as close to Sudan as is my noble friend Lady Anelay or the noble Lord, Lord Alton. Can my noble friend tell us what the African Union has actually achieved in Sudan over recent years?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

That is a very good question. As noble Lords will know, there have been a number of agreed ceasefires in recent months. It is right to say that every one of them has been fragile and has not held, and conflict continues to grip the country. The African Union has a hugely important role, not least because it has legitimacy to bring different parties together. Until peace is established in Sudan, I do not think anything can be described as a success.

Colombia: National Liberation Army

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Ladyton]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking with international partners to facilitate the present round of peace talks between the Government of Colombia and the National Liberation Army.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the ceasefire agreed between the Colombian Government and the National Liberation Army is a welcome step. We share the hope that it will contribute to improving security and alleviate the suffering of conflict-affected communities. As penholder on the Colombia peace process at the UN Security Council, the UK plays a key role in co-ordinating support for Colombia with international partners. Since 2015, the UK has committed £80 million through the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund to support the peace process and improve stability and security in Colombia.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, the recent visit of the Foreign Secretary to Colombia to discuss ongoing support for the implementation of the 2016 peace agreement, and the commitment of a further £3.6 million for that purpose, is to be welcomed and commended. The Minister will be aware of the importance of the Colombian Office of the High Commissioner for Peace to the implementation of President Petro’s policy of total peace. However, this department lacks sufficient resources to carry out the necessary work to promote negotiations with the wide range of armed groups that are still functioning in Colombia. Is it possible to hypothecate any of our ongoing financial support for the Office of the High Commissioner for Peace, and will His Majesty’s Government consider so doing?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for raising the broader issue, and I will certainly take his suggestion back to the appropriate Minister. Although we are not directly supporting the Colombian Office of the High Commissioner for Peace, which he mentioned, we are supporting it indirectly through the trust funds that I mentioned earlier, to which we are, I believe, still the second-largest UN donor. This is a priority for us in our relationship with Colombia. Of course we want the process to succeed; it matters to the whole world that it does.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, the peace accord with the FARC included a no-amnesty policy for conflict-related sexual violence. What can the UK, as penholder at the UN, do to ensure that a similar commitment forms part of the talks and any final agreement with the National Liberation Army?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The UK continues to provide support to help Colombia tackle the legacy of sexual violence and impunity for perpetrators from this long conflict. During his most recent visit to Colombia, Minister Rutley discussed the UK PSVI—preventing sexual violence initiative—with the Foreign Minister and met countless victims of sexual violence, many of whom receive direct support from UK-funded projects. This is very high on the radar in our bilateral relationship.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, I recall that, when negotiations were under way with the FARC, the practical and technical advice given by the UK Government to indigenous groups and to women was extremely helpful in enabling them to participate effectively in the talks. Can my noble friend say whether that assistance is being given currently to these groups in the talks involved with the ELN?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

It is. We continue to work closely with the Government and with communities to bolster protection for human rights defenders who, as the noble Baroness will know, have faced particular problems and casualties in recent years in Colombia, more so than in many other countries. Through this work, but also through our international climate finance, we are ramping up support for indigenous communities both in Colombia and the wider region, having secured a pledge from other donors of nearly $1.5 billion for the same. Securing land rights, for example, is a major part of what we are trying to do with indigenous people, as well as bolstering support for human rights defenders and supporting the transition of justice mechanisms that are being trialled and rolled out across Colombia.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, to go back to the noble Baroness’s question, in November, with an Inter-Parliamentary Union delegation, I met for the first time indigenous community representatives in the Colombian Senate in Parliament, and her point is well made. Can the Minister reassure me that transitional justice support is a key element of the work that the UK is doing and co-ordinating and facilitating with Norway and Mexico. Those indigenous community MPs were optimistic but the next stage for transitional justice is going to be critical for community buy-in, especially on land rights issues. The Bar Human Rights Committee supported this work. Are we continuing to support it?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The answer is yes. The UK has contributed over £26 million towards transitional justice mechanisms and for victims of the conflict in Colombia since 2016. That included supporting the Truth Commission’s work to gather testimony from Colombians, both in Colombia and abroad, as well as enhancing the investigatory capacity of the Special Jurisdiction for Peace, Colombia’s post-conflict special court. This issue was raised by the UK’s global ambassador for human rights, Rita French, who met the Special Jurisdiction for Peace recently to discuss our ongoing support.

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)]

My Lords, we celebrate the progress being made in the peace talks but there is concern, not least in the United Nations, that the attorney-general, Francisco Barbosa, is obstructing those talks. He is also obstructing the release of young people unfairly detained following demonstrations in 2021. What more can the Government do to ensure that full due process and legal rights are respected in such cases?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, Colombia is a human rights priority country for the UK. That means that we will continue to monitor any and all impacts that limit our ability to support civil society organisations. As penholder of the UN Security Council, we consistently raise the importance of participation of civil society and young people to realise the full benefits of the 2016 peace agreement in Colombia. We are fully utilising our position as penholder but maintaining Colombia as a high priority for human rights.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as director of the Hay Festival. We have been going to Colombia for two decades now and have seen a great deal of changes. It always astonishes me that conversations such as this happen without mentioning the word “cocaine”. Cocaine is the largest growth factor in Colombia. Every year, despite gazillions of dollars being spent by other countries, particularly the USA, the amount of cocaine that is grown increases. They may have got rid of some of the Colombian cartels but now there are the Mexican cartels. To talk about the peace process without confronting the issue of cocaine, which is illegal across the world and which a lot of people in this city help fund, is lunacy. I am not asking the Minister to say whether he approves of legalisation, which the previous president, Santos, did, who was outspoken that you could not stop crime without it, but could he at least tell me what conversations he has had?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right to point to the role of drugs. Colombia is still one of the largest producers of coca and cocaine in the world. The trade obviously fuels violence in many areas of the country, as illegal armed groups fight for control of territory and trading routes. That violence disproportionately affects local communities, in particular indigenous communities. Social leaders and former FARC combatants get caught up in it, and so the noble Baroness is right that this issue is inseparably linked to the peace process. Therefore, it is a feature of our discussions with Colombia. We are committed to working bilaterally with international partners, including Colombia, to disrupt, wherever we can, the supply chains that feed the domestic market here that she points to. My own opinion on legalisation is not strictly relevant, but it is interesting that many former presidents of Colombia take the position that President Santos took on this issue.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, on 8 May, the UN Committee Against Torture raised concerns over the lack of progress in investigations into the police abuses against protesters during Colombia’s national strike mobilisations of 2019 and 2021 under the previous Government of Iván Duque. Can the Minister tell us what representations we have made to ensure that those investigations are properly pursued? One of the things about the past is holding people to account, and we desperately need to ensure that in Colombia.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, through the same programme, the CSSF, which has been the main vehicle for delivering much of the support that we have provided Colombia with in this area, we have supported Colombia’s peace and stabilisation programme and launched a £2.1 million project on police innovations for stabilisation in Colombia three years ago. That is supporting the transformation of the Colombian National Police, and the work is ongoing. The embassy regularly reviews the overseas security and justice assistance assessments, including what steps can be taken both to mitigate the risks and to hold wrongdoers to account.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the president, His Excellency Gustavo Petro, recently pointed out that many of the key activists in the ELN are actually Catholic priests who are exponents of so-called liberation theology. I do not want to get the Minister into trouble with the Vatican and incur its wrath, but would he agree with me that the Catholic Church should be more proactive in these negotiations?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I hope I am permitted just to agree with my noble friend. It would be great to see the Vatican using the influence that it clearly has in the region to support the peace process.

China: High-level Talks

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davidson of Glen Clova]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, following the high-level talks between the Governments of China and the United States on 18 and 19 June at which both sides agreed to “effectively manage differences and advance dialogue, exchanges and co-operation”, whether they propose to undertake a similar process.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, as set out in the Integrated Review Refresh, China represents an epoch-defining challenge for the UK. China is becoming more authoritarian at home and more aggressive overseas. China is also a permanent member of the UN Security Council, is the world’s second-largest economy, and has an impact on many global issues of importance to the UK. The IRR makes it clear that we will engage with China where it is in our interest to do so, ensuring that we always put our national security first.

[Lord Davidson of Glen Clova (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer. What is the current state of play in relation to bilateral dialogue between China and the UK?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

Dialogue is ongoing. The Foreign Secretary is looking right now at options for a potential visit to Beijing in the coming months—details and dates are not yet confirmed. He spoke to his counterpart, Qin Gang, on 20 February, and met him at the G20 in March. He met the Chinese director of the Office of the Central Commission for Foreign Affairs, Wang Yi, at the Munich Security Conference in February, and met the vice-president, Han Zheng, on 5 May. The nature of our relationship with China is very much set out in the integrated review and involves practical and pragmatic discussions.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

But, my Lords, in the list that the Minister just gave the House, he did not refer to the meeting that took place on Tuesday of this week between the Minister of State in his own department, Anne-Marie Trevelyan, and Liu Jianchao, who is notorious for his human rights record in the People’s Republic of China, where he is an active member of the CCP, for his involvement in “Fox Hunt” and Skynet—two particularly awful experiences for people who are persecuted. Given that genocide is under way in Xinjiang, there are daily threats to Taiwan, and 1,200 political prisoners are still in Hong Kong, would we not do better to build up British national resilience rather than continuing dependency on a country which threatens our interests and the rest of the world?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I certainly agree with the noble Lord in relation to the need to build that resilience, and I acknowledge that I did not mention that meeting. However, there were many other meetings which I did not mention either. Liu Jianchao is here at the moment to co-host the Great Britain-China Centre’s senior leadership forum, which took place on 20 June. As the noble Lord said, he is a senior figure in the Chinese Communist Party. We support the forum itself; it is probably the most effective forum that allows parliamentarians here to raise concerns—including those around Xinjiang and other issues as well—directly with Chinese officials, and, yes, the Minister of State for the Indo-Pacific attended to give the opening remarks.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the Integrated Review Refresh. Instead of flip-flopping between tough talk and muddled actions, we need to develop a strategy in which we challenge, compete and, where we can, co-operate. Does the Minister accept that, to do that, we first need a complete and comprehensive audit of the UK-China relationship—not restricting ourselves to government, by the way, but including the private sector and local government? Can he give us that reassurance that, instead of hiding behind a refresh, he will actually get on and do a proper audit?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the relationship is permanently evolving, which is necessary as times change and things change. The Integrated Review Refresh sets out our approach to China. It is about protecting our national security, aligning with our allies and partners and engaging with China where it is in our interests to do so. We have not committed to publishing a stand-alone China strategy; I note the comments of the noble Lord, and I will certainly convey them to the Minister. However, we will continue to maintain as much transparency as possible and will keep Parliament informed of our approach towards China, both now and as it evolves.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord who asked the Question clearly has close ties and knowledge of China. However, should we not bear in mind that our interests should always be reflected in our relations with any country, and that the way in which China abrogated a treaty over Hong Kong, which had been entered into solemnly, is not exactly encouraging?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord is right; the UK has been and remains clear that China today is in an ongoing state of non-compliance with the Sino-British joint declaration. We have been clear that the imposition of the national security law and the overhaul of Hong Kong’s electoral system have undermined the civil and political rights that were promised to Hong Kongers under the joint declaration, and we continue to work with our allies to try to hold China to its international obligations.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, when Xi Jinping visited this Parliament in 2015, the Conservative Prime Minister hailed the UK as the “best partner” in the West for China. Four Conservative Prime Ministers later, it has been quite hard to find out what that consistent position is, and, as the House of Lords International Relations and Defence Committee has identified, we now have a strategic void with regard to our position on China. Is it still the case, as David Cameron called for in 2015, that

“we should increase our financial and economic co-operation, with the UK as the partner of choice for China in the West”?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I refer back to the suggestion that was put to me earlier, that our policy should be one of building resilience. That means in our supply chains and in terms of inward investment into the UK. It never makes sense for the UK to be overly dependent on any one country, especially if it is as large, powerful and increasingly assertive as China is.

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, are the Government not worried about China reaching out to Saudi Arabian companies which have been blacklisted in America, with regard to AI?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I am sure that we absolutely should be worried about that. I am afraid that I do not have huge knowledge about this area, or indeed any knowledge, so I will have to defer to the Minister and get back to the noble Baroness.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the Secretary of State for the United States recently visited China. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made of the success or otherwise of that visit?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

Secretary Blinken briefed the Foreign Secretary about his visit to Beijing when they met on 20 June. Blinken was in Beijing from 18 to 19 June and met Foreign Minister Qin Gang, top CCP diplomat Wang Yi, as well as President Xi Jinping. Public messaging on the visit has been positive from both sides. The Foreign Secretary was clear in his Mansion House speech that nothing is inevitable about conflict between the US and China, and the IRR, which I mentioned earlier, sets out how we will engage with China where consistent with our interests.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

Following the meeting between Secretary Blinken and the Chinese President, the US President Joe Biden described the Chinese President as a dictator. Do His Majesty’s Government agree with that assessment?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The UK’s position on the current Administration in China has been articulated many times by the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary. We believe that, internationally, China has become more assertive, and, as I said at the beginning, domestically, China has become more authoritarian. The language used by the President is of course for the President.

Ugandan School Attack

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Wednesday 21st June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I do not think it is necessary for the Statement to be read. It was taken yesterday, so it is in Hansard.

Forty-two people are dead, including 37 children, and students remain in terrible danger after being abducted. I know that the whole House will wish to convey condolences to all those parents who are suffering unimaginable pain and fear. In response to Jim Shannon the Minister, Andrew Mitchell, said that before these horrific events the FCDO was “looking at commissioning” a new joint analysis of conflict and stability report for the region. I hope the Minister can tell us where we are on that report and when it will be completed and available.

On the illicit financial flows that are used to back these terrorists, Andrew Mitchell referred in the other place to the Integrated Review Refresh, indicating that the Government were actively engaged in working out how we can do more on that front. Can the noble Lord assure the House that we have the right resources to map illicit financial flows? Do we understand where we have leverage over those who support the ADF and other armed groups in the area?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, this was an horrific and cowardly attack on a secondary school in Mpondwe. I echo the noble Lord in saying that my heart and the thoughts of all members of the Government go out to the families involved.

As a brief update, the Government of Uganda have confirmed that 42 people were killed and that 37 of them were students at the school. Six people were injured and there were reports of a further five to seven people, which we think includes children from the school, being abducted. The authorities in Uganda believe that the perpetrators are from the Islamic State-affiliated armed group the Allied Democratic Forces, which operates in the DRC. The Ugandan military is pursuing the attackers and those responsible of course must be brought to justice.

The noble Lord asked two specific questions. The first related to the joint analysis that was raised by our colleague in the other place, the Minister for Africa. The Government have commissioned analysis for the Horn of Africa. We are not yet in a position to set out timelines. However, we are in regular contact with partners in the region to identify the drivers of conflict and how to react to them. On illicit finance, it is worth pointing out that the ADF is already under UK and UN sanctions. In addition, we are working with a number of African Governments to address loopholes in existing legislation that enable this type of money to be laundered in support of groups such as the ADF.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, from these Benches I associate myself with the condolences offered by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, to the families of those affected by this truly horrific terror incident. Because the attacks were on young people, this trauma will live with them for the rest of their lives.

The United States State Department two days ago issued a statement on the final report by the UN group of experts on the DRC, which covered many of the aspects the Minister has referred to. The State Department condemned Rwanda for its support of the M23 group, which has committed multiple violations of international humanitarian law and human rights abuses, including rapes and summary executions of civilians. Specifically with regard to the Allied Democratic Forces, also known as ISIS-DRC—which, as the Minister says, the Ugandan authorities believe are responsible for this horrific attack—the State Department said that the US designated that as a terrorist organisation in 2021

“and urges our partners to do the same”.

I can see no reference to the UK proscribing ISIS-DRC, the Allied Democratic Forces, as a terrorist organisation. Is this the case? If it is, why have we not?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the UK does not speculate and therefore I cannot speculate on future sanctions and designations or on organisations that may or may not be proscribed.

The noble Lord is right to raise broader issues around the DRC. Of course, as discussed before in this House, we are very concerned by continuing violence and the deteriorating humanitarian situation in the eastern DRC. We are monitoring the situation closely. We very strongly condemn the continuing advance of the UN-sanctioned M23 illegal armed group across that province. The resumption of violence has caused huge human suffering. We believe there are now 1.5 million people displaced as a direct consequence of the M23 crisis. We are supporting a range of diplomatic efforts, including the Nairobi and Rwanda processes, which aim to bring this conflict to an end.

[Lord Popat (Con)]

My Lords, I express my sorrow, as a proud Ugandan, at the recent attack, which took the lives of so many innocent schoolchildren. My condolences and prayers at this difficult time go to the people of Uganda, especially the victims and their families. Would my noble friend the Minister agree that this is a shocking terrorist crime and that we, the British Government, will do everything possible to support the Government of Uganda to help recover those who were kidnapped?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, I echo everything my noble friend has said. I pay tribute to him for his work as the trade envoy—I believe he still is a trade envoy—for the UK Government in Uganda. We stand ready to support the Government. We have not yet been asked for support by the Government of Uganda to help retrieve the abducted people—we think they are children—but we are absolutely ready to provide whatever support is appropriate if that request comes through.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I associate myself with all the expressions of sorrow, condolence and best wishes for the safe recovery of those who have been abducted. My question follows that asked by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, who focused on illicit financial flows. I think there is very good evidence in this region of the smuggling of gold, which goes through Uganda. A lot of it is thought to end up in the UAE. Can the Minister give me reassurance that that gold is not ending up in the United Kingdom or tell me what steps the Government are taking to stop that conflict gold getting out and subsequently funding dangerous armed groups?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. I will certainly not pretend to be an expert, but, just as illicit gold is known to provide resources to some of these extremist terrorist organisations, so too are the proceeds of the illegal wildlife trade, such as the poaching of elephants —we know that al-Shabaab gets a lot of its funding through IWT. Therefore, this is of huge interest to the UK Government, and it is a focal point of much of our work. As a consequence of what is becoming a scramble for critical minerals in our pursuit of net zero, we have to be absolutely certain that, by solving one problem, we are not contributing to the merciless destruction of natural environments and communities as well. I do not think that any western Government has yet got their head around this, but we are determined to focus on it increasingly in the coming months and years.

UK Food Aid: Ethiopia

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Wednesday 14th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Ladyton]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, following the decision of the USAid and the UN World Food Programme to suspend food aid to Ethiopia, what steps they are taking to protect the integrity of UK food aid funding paid to the Productive Safety Net Programme run by the government of that country.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, we are deeply concerned about the recent revelations of food aid diversion in Ethiopia. We welcome the Government of Ethiopia’s joint statement with USAID that commits to addressing the issue and holding those responsible to account. We have asked the World Bank to lead a review of aid diversion risks in the productive safety net programme, which provides 8 million people in the poorest areas of rural Ethiopia with critical assistance.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, the infliction of starvation by Ethiopia and its allies on the civilian population of Tigray during the two-year war now seems to be continuing in the context of a peace process, a fundamental of which was to ensure unhindered access to aid, especially for women, children and the elderly. A criminal scheme co-ordinated by elements of the country’s federal and regional Governments has been stealing the food aid donated to the UN World Food Programme by the US, Ukraine, Japan and France and diverting it to feed military and ex-combatants and selling it on the open market. Now, because of diversion concerns—and this move is difficult to comprehend—the US Government and the World Food Programme have suspended food aid to Ethiopia and Tigray respectively, pending, as the Minister acknowledged, a USAID countrywide review in co-ordination with—of all people—the Government of Ethiopia. In the meantime, what if any alternative means are being considered by His Majesty’s Government, and recommended to the US Government and the UN, to get life-saving food to malnourished, starving children in Tigray?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, we understand why the World Food Programme has taken the decision to temporarily halt food assistance to Ethiopia. It is worth adding that nutritional support and other programmes will continue. The demands placed by USAID and the World Food Programme are reasonable: they want independent investigations that target the people behind the aid diversion schemes, independent rather than government-managed targeting of humanitarian food assistance and independent—again, not government-managed—warehousing and distribution of food assistance. That is what they are demanding, and we understand why. As it happens, we have not yet found any diversion of UK aid, and we hope that does not change with the emergence of new evidence.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that this region is suffering from the worst famine and hunger crisis for 30 years, but the UK support has been slashed from £861 million in 2017-18 to just £221 million last year. Notwithstanding that, we are still contributing a large amount of support for the people of this region. It is recognised that if combatants attack food supplies, it is considered a war crime. Is it the position of His Majesty’s Government that direct and deliberate food diversion away from civilians as part of a conflict will also be considered by the UK as a potential war crime?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I will have to put that specific question to the Minister for Africa. In principle we do not question the basis for the definition that the noble Lord has put forward, but it has always been our view across the board that determination of things such as genocide or war crimes should be made by a competent court rather than by the UK Government or a non-judicial body.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the recent fifth failed rainy season and extreme climate events across the Horn of Africa mean that catastrophic hunger levels are likely to worsen across Ethiopia, as well as in Kenya, Somalia and South Sudan, yet those countries are among the least responsible for climate change. Can the Minister, who I know has a specific interest in this, tell us more about what the Government can do to help communities adapt to the impact of climate change?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a hugely important point. It is worth saying that Ethiopia was long considered a success story. Over the last few decades, millions upon millions of people have been pulled out of poverty—with UK support, I should say; the UK has been a principal player in that process and can be proud of it—but those gains are being lost as a consequence of drought, conflict and the war in Ukraine, et cetera. The noble Lord raises the issue of adaptation. The UK has committed that half or thereabouts of our international climate finance should be spent on adaptation, the other half being spent on mitigation. A very big proportion of both will be invested in nature-based solutions to climate change, which provide both adaptation and mitigation. That is the lens through which we approach climate change, and it is the focus of all the investments in the £11.6 billion commitment that former Prime Minister Boris Johnson made at COP 26.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, I very much support the Government’s view about helping Africa in the way they have set out, but last time I was in Ethiopia it was clear that millions of women did not have access to family planning. Is it not the biggest scourge of Africa that those women have no ability to control the number of children they have?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord is right to identify that as a major issue, which is why family planning remains a big focus of UK aid across Africa. So many threats, risks, challenges and pressures face that continent, and climate change and environmental degradation, as mentioned in the previous question, are rapidly becoming the dominant threat facing many countries in the continent.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

My Lords, it happens time and again that Governments start diverting food aid and other aid away from the people who need it on the ground, and time and again we have learned that international organisations such as Christian Aid and the Red Cross, and local faith communities from all faiths, are often the very best at delivering aid and making sure it gets to the people most in need. Can the Minister tell us what is being done to try to get around the Ethiopian Government and use those organisations?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I strongly agree with the premise of the question. Many of those organisations are better placed to deploy aid than Governments, government agencies or some of the very clunky, large multilateral organisations. I mentioned earlier that the UK has not found evidence that our own aid has been diverted, but we are part of a UN-led diversion task force. We are pressing for a systemwide investigation into diversion risks across Ethiopia and working with our representatives at the UN and the World Bank to bring impetus to this process at the highest possible level. But there is an urgent need to maintain the humanitarian support that the right reverend Prelate identified in areas affected by ongoing regional conflict, flooding, cholera and so on. We follow strict processes to prevent aid diversion and have controls and risk management systems in place, and they seem to be working. We are acutely aware of the need to continue to provide humanitarian assistance for those in the greatest need.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, many noble Lords will recognise that the African Union has been trying to play a role in resolving the conflict in that region, but of course the African Union is also headquartered in Ethiopia. What is the Government’s view of how well the African Union is doing? Does it need more support from the UK and its allies? Do the Government have any concerns about its role in trying to resolve this conflict?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

It is absolutely right that the African Union should be front and centre in tackling this crisis, but I think I am the wrong person to provide an assessment of its role in the context of today’s discussion. I will have to get back to my noble friend via my colleague the Minister for Africa.

International Criminal Police Organisation (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2023

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Monday 5th June 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

That the Grand Committee do consider the International Criminal Police Organisation (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2023.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, this instrument was laid before Parliament on 20 April in accordance with Section 10(1) of the International Organisations Act 1968. It is subject to the affirmative procedure and will be made once it is approved by both Houses. The issue was brought to the House of Commons Committee on Wednesday 17 May and was passed unanimously.

The primary purpose of the order is to provide the International Criminal Police Organization, more commonly known as Interpol, with the status of an international organisation in the UK, under the International Organisations Act. This is a prerequisite for the UK to host the annual Interpol general assembly in 2024. Importantly, it will also enable Interpol to function effectively in the UK in the longer term, including by providing it with legal personality in this country.

The Government therefore consider these privileges and immunities both necessary and appropriate to deliver on the short and longer-term interests and commitments that the UK has towards Interpol. The privileges and immunities conferred enable Interpol staff and its representatives from member countries to operate effectively in the UK. They will be afforded to officials attending statutory Interpol meetings and senior officials such as the Interpol secretary-general and executive committee members. They are within the scope of the International Organisations Act and in line with UK precedents.

All categories of individual are subject only to official Act immunities. The one exception to that is the secretary-general, who will be treated in accordance with the UK’s treatment of heads of diplomatic missions, namely receiving personal as well as official Act immunity. The provisions of the order cover: entry into the UK; customs provisions; immunity from legal process within the scope of official activities; inviolability of official documents and correspondence; taxation; inviolability of Interpol premises; statutory meetings; foreign currency exchange; functional immunity for officials; and an immunity waiver. As is standard for agreements of this kind, UK nationals and permanent residents are carved out of provisions regarding taxation and importation exemptions.

Interpol is a global law enforcement organisation whose objective is to facilitate transnational police co-operation in the fight against international crime. That mission is more important than ever when we consider how international crime has evolved since the UK became a member in 1928. Global travel, new technology and the ability of serious and organised crime gangs to exploit world events mean that we need to work across borders to keep our people safe. Interpol is key to that work and the UK remains committed to the organisation as it marks its centenary year. Our commitment is reflected in our plan to host the general assembly, alongside our day-to-day investment in Interpol through our people and expertise.

The general assembly represents a unique opportunity to demonstrate UK policing leadership on a global stage. During the event, police chiefs from around the world, alongside senior government officials, will gather to discuss emerging threats to global security, to set the direction for Interpol’s activities in the following year and to elect a new secretary-general, along with nine of the 13 new executive committee members.

The privileges and immunities granted by the order will enable Interpol’s membership to come together at its 2024 general assembly in the UK. It will also create a basis for closer working between Interpol and the UK Government and law enforcement agencies in future. I commend the order to the Committee.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing this statutory instrument. As he says, it has been considered in the other place. In fact, my honourable friend Catherine West made it absolutely clear that the Opposition support its introduction. She certainly echoed the Minister’s comments on the importance of Interpol’s role and activities, so I will not repeat those, but I have a number of specific questions that I want to put to the Minister.

The immunities and privileges contained in the instrument differ from those in similar regulations that I have considered in Grand Committee. One of those was the 2021 order on the Bank for International Settlements. Can the Minister explain the process to determine which immunities and privileges are given? Do they differ constantly for different organisations?

Also, during the debate on the instrument that gave similar immunities for COP 26, which I know the Minister is familiar with, I asked for assurances that there was no risk of hostile states’ representatives abusing privileges while in the UK. Can he confirm whether there has been any risk assessment of this possibility for the Interpol general assembly, which is going to take place in the United Kingdom?

The Explanatory Memorandum states:

“There was previously no law granting privileges and immunities to INTERPOL in the UK”.


Given that Interpol’s national central bureau is based in Manchester, is there a time lag? Why are we granting these immunities now? Surely there were people who would have benefited from such immunities in Manchester. Did the Government receive representations on this issue? The office in Manchester is responsible for working with and protecting the 14 overseas territories from a range of threats. Are the Government involving them in the arrangements for the general assembly?

Those are the few questions I have on this instrument. I reiterate the Opposition’s support for its introduction.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his contribution. I will do my best to answer his questions.

The privileges and immunities are a requirement, as the noble Lord knows, of the UK as a host of the general assembly in 2024. In agreeing the privileges and immunities treaty, Ministers considered this aspect and the associated risks, which he has just highlighted. All 195 members of Interpol will receive an invitation to the general assembly; that is the case for every Interpol general assembly and it is a requirement. The UK is required, as per the terms and conditions for hosting the general assembly, to honour those invitations. That is just a fact of hosting this conference or summit. Based on attendance at recent meetings of the Interpol general assembly, we are planning for the attendance of about 1,000 delegates, including the Interpol leadership. That said, and as outlined in the draft, not all of them will have full privileges and immunities.

On the issue that the noble Lord raised in relation to hostile states, the privileges and immunities granted are only those that are strictly necessary. They were negotiated according to functional needs, so delegates of member countries will be granted only the official acts immunity, which applies while they are carrying out their official activities in the UK. We are seeking to limit the size of national delegations permitted to the general assembly sessions to a model of five delegates and five alternates. They must also go through an accreditation process. We work continually to assess potential threats to the UK and will always take proportional action to mitigate risks where we identify them, as we are doing in this case. The immunities granted are official acts immunities only; they cover official Interpol activities and attendance at Interpol statutory meetings.

The noble Lord made a point about the Manchester HQ. My understanding is that it is the National Crime Agency, which is obviously a UK organisation, that is based in Manchester and not Interpol, so there is a crucial difference there.

What was the noble Lord’s first question?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

The differences between certain agencies and their immunities.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I am afraid I will have to write to the noble Lord with a detailed answer on that, because I do not have that information to hand.

On Interpol itself as an organisation, the Government strongly support its efforts to ensure that systems are in place that protect individuals’ human rights, in line with Article 3 of Interpol’s constitution, which strictly forbids

“any intervention or activities of a political, military, religious or racial character”.

The Home Office continues to work with Interpol and the National Crime Agency, which acts as the UK’s national central bureau, to monitor the effectiveness of existing safeguards. We encourage Interpol to uphold international human rights obligations and would never hesitate to recommend further reforms to Interpol, if necessary.

I think I have answered the noble Lord’s questions, with the exception of one, on which I will have to get back to him in writing. I thank him again for his contribution today. I know the committee took a keen interest in the UK’s relationship with Interpol. In granting these privileges and immunities, we will be able to host the general assembly in 2024. We will be better placed to influence the organisation as a result, and better positioned to combat international criminality. I therefore trust that the Committee will support the order.

Motion agreed.

Overseas Territories

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Thursday 25th May 2023 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

I start by thanking my noble friend Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton for tabling this debate and giving the Committee an opportunity to discuss and celebrate the UK’s relationship with the overseas territories. The OTs are a core part of the British family. The UK has a responsibility to ensure their security, good governance and prosperity. We also have a moral obligation to protect the safety of the inhabitants of the territories, just as we do for inhabitants of the UK. Although we cherish our territories, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, is right to emphasise that our partnership is built on mutual respect, as it must be. I reiterate the same commitment that my predecessors have made: the UK Government will defend the right of the territories to choose their own future.

As Minister for the Overseas Territories, I hosted all their elected leaders earlier this month for the 10th joint ministerial council. This came just a week after the leaders attended the Coronation and gave us the opportunity to celebrate the British family’s shared history together. My noble friend Lady Hooper made the point very well on both the response of the overseas territories to the sad death of Her Majesty the Queen and the celebration of the King and contribution to his Coronation.

We were joined by Ministers and officials from across the Government at the JMC. Our discussions covered top priorities, including migration, economic resilience and essential services. We made joint commitments to tackling urgent shared issues, such as the environment, financial transparency and healthcare access. While I am pleased that we are making progress on a range of important issues, it is also clear that there is much more to do. There are shortcomings that the Government undoubtedly must address, some of which my noble friend Lord Lancaster highlighted.

We have a fundamental duty to protect and support the territories, but the sad truth is that we have, at times, been found wanting. But I am determined and our Prime Minister has been clear that our territories will be prioritised across Government. I take this opportunity to echo the remarks of my noble friend Lord Lancaster about the Foreign Office or FCDO team, some of whom are behind me. I am lucky to work with such a diligent, hard-working, committed team. They go well beyond the call of duty in their support of the overseas territories.

However, it is also necessary for me to say, as has been said by a couple of other speakers, that while the FCDO is the lead department at the centre—I have used the term “air traffic control” before, because it accurately reflects our role with the OTs—we do not control the levers of delivery. They exist elsewhere, in other departments, so it is crucial that other departments step up to fulfil their reserved responsibilities to the overseas territories—whether it is the MoD providing vital logistical capabilities to respond to hurricanes or the Home Office bolstering the border security of territories responding to large levels of irregular migration.

Beyond meeting our reserved responsibilities, departments can contribute to and learn from British communities in these extraordinarily diverse and rich territories. We must do more. I know the Prime Minister shares this view: he has written to all departments, directing them to fulfil their responsibilities and, crucially, to nominate a dedicated Overseas Territories Minister, who will liaise with me. I will convene regular meetings of these OT Ministers to ensure that we are meeting our obligations.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about—but I am not sure he used the term—the OT strategy. He was talking about a government strategy on the OTs and that strategy is under way. The FCDO is leading that work but, again, this effort must go across the whole of government and involve the territories.

I return briefly to the question that my noble friend Lord Lancaster raised about why the FCDO should be the lead department on this within government. It is a difficult question to answer, because there is no obvious right or wrong, but I think it is right that our staff working on the OTs are experienced at working overseas and that our ambassadors and UK missions are joined up to advocate for the OTs internationally and to defend their sovereignty, especially the rights of the Falkland Islanders. A number of our ambassadors have played a crucial role in securing support for the islanders and their right to determine their own future.

I hope my noble friend is reassured that the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and I are completely committed to ensuring that the Government deliver for the territories. My noble friend Lady Hooper made a point about the Speaker and I simply echo her remarks: the Speaker is a champion for the overseas territories and he has been superb.

Of course, the ambition of all the territories is to be economically self-sufficient but, where this is not possible, we support them with overseas development assistance. The OTs continue to have the first call on our development budget. I am proud to say that, despite pressures across the ODA landscape, the FCDO team behind me was able to increase official development assistance to the eligible territories. This year, we will provide £85 million to the Governments of St Helena, Montserrat, Tristan da Cunha and the Pitcairn Islands. That will account for between 60% and 95% of the territory Governments’ budgets and will provide essential services, including education and healthcare.

In addition, we are investing many more millions in infrastructure in the territories. For example, we are providing £30 million for St Helena, £40 million for Montserrat, £4.5 million for Pitcairn and £2.5 million for Tristan.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

Since we are not short of time, many years ago, in opposition, I was privileged to travel to St Helena to make an assessment of whether we would build an airport. After seven days of bobbing on a boat from Cape Town, I think my first decision was that it could definitely have an airport. Could my noble friend give an update on the success of that airport? There were a few troubles to start with.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. I think I am still limited to my 12 minutes —it is crazy; I do not make the rules—so I shall be very brief. The theme of airports cropped up a lot during the JMC. St Helena has its working airport; Ascension’s representatives arrived there on the inaugural flight. There is work going on in Anguilla, Montserrat and other places.

I will move on to the environment because I am going to run out of time and I have quite a few issues to cover. We are investing significantly to protect the ecosystems and biodiversity of the overseas territories, which are of global importance. It has been said already that they harbour over 90% of the UK’s biodiversity. They have numerous endemic species and they really are of global importance. I think the FCDO’s Blue Belt programme is one of the great conservation stories of my lifetime. We have supported it with around £40 million of funding this year. The programme now protects 4.5 million square kilometres of ocean. That does not even include the Cayman project my noble friend mentioned, which is extraordinary—and, yes, of course, I am very supportive of its UNESCO application.

We have invested more than £45 million over the last decade in biodiversity and conservation projects. I am thrilled that Defra has committed a further £10 million each year until 2025, and I hope it will go beyond that too. In response to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we have also worked closely to ensure that the voices of our overseas territories are amplified and magnified at UN climate change and biodiversity summits. We did that in Glasgow very effectively and we continue to do it. Indeed, I spoke to the UAE just yesterday and made this point then as well.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, raised a number of issues. First, based on everything I understand, it is the Falklands Islands’ right to pursue fossil fuel development, and we support its right to develop its natural resources as we support all the overseas territories in that regard. We are working very closely with the Falklands Islands Government to build local capacity so that if and when the development happens, it is properly regulated to the highest possible environmental and safety standards.

The noble Baroness asked about the emissions and where they are calculated; I will write to her on this topic to give a specific answer. However, I would make the point that the OTs contribute very little to emissions. Their contribution to nature, biodiversity and marine ecosystems is vastly disproportionate. It is right that we should focus more on that. We are working with the OTs which want to join the international agreements on emissions. As I say, in the interests of time, I will get back to her with more details on that.

She asked about who in government is in charge of this adaptation. She rightly said that almost all the overseas territories are islands and therefore acutely vulnerable to the changes we know are happening. That point was made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, as well. This came up a lot, as your Lordships can imagine, at the JMC. It is very clear that the OTs have a particular vulnerability. The responsible Minister is Trudy Harrison at Defra. She spoke at the JMC and we had a very wide-ranging conversation. The FCDO also provides funding through the CSSF for environment and climate change work. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the biodiversity strategy is being consulted on right now—it is happening.

We continue to support the territories in building their resilience to hurricanes and disaster response. That includes FCDO funding for annual training, equipment and warning systems. We also provide operational support. From next week, HMS “Dauntless” will be there, ready to act if necessary. I pay tribute to the regiments and defence forces in Bermuda, Turks and Caicos, Montserrat and Cayman, which will play a key role as first responders when natural disasters affect the overseas territories.

I will not be able to answer all the questions about regiments and medallic recognition, but I have a good answer for the noble Lord—I shall follow up afterwards, if he does not mind. Likewise, we are working on the Royal Bermuda Regiment’s battle honours. I know that colleagues in the Ministry of Defence are looking closely at that issue now, but I will give him a fuller answer in due course.

On visas, we know that it is vital that students with British overseas citizen passports are able to study in the UK. This is an ongoing issue. I assure the noble Lord and others that I have written in very strong terms to the Home Office Minister on this. We are following up and making ourselves as big a pain in the backside as possible to ensure that we resolve that issue.

The issue of Girlguiding is beyond our control as a Government, but it has been raised by me and by others.

Finally on this, the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, raised the issue of state pensions, which was also raised at the JMC. I committed to follow up with the DWP, which I am on the cusp of doing. I very much hope that we will be able to resolve the issue, but I cannot promise any particular outcome because it is beyond my control, I am afraid.

Briefly on security and borders, which is one of our key priorities for the OTs, we are investing £18 million in security for the Caribbean through our integrated security fund. In the BVI, we are working with the Government to improve governance and increase law enforcement. Irregular migration and serious crime are threatening to overwhelm the Turks and Caicos Islands. The Foreign Office has taken measures, including tendering for a maritime surveillance aircraft, training law enforcement officers and helping fund electronic border infrastructure, but it is crucial for the Home Office to deploy its expertise and resources to prevent the territory becoming overwhelmed, which could happen. We will continue to work very hard on this issue as well, and I will continue to lobby my counterparts in other departments to ensure that every department of government fulfils its responsibilities in full to the overseas territories.

I am likewise very pleased to see representatives from Gibraltar here. I assure noble Lords that we are continuing to work with Gibraltar to conclude a treaty with the EU covering its interests. I will not be able to go into detail now, other than to say that we are steadfast in our support for Gibraltar and will not agree to anything at all that questions or compromises on sovereignty.

I realise that I am over time, but I feel obliged to answer the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, which was echoed by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, on equal marriage. I thank him for his work on this issue. As he would expect, I very strongly agree with the points he made, but policy on marriage is an area of devolved responsibility. That is simply a fact. It is the responsibility of the territories to legislate. It is worth acknowledging that a lot of progress has been made. The majority of territories have legal protections for, and recognition of, same-sex relationships and we are working hard to encourage others to do the same. I know that that is not the answer that he was hoping for, but we have to respect the fact that these islands are not subjects of direct rule from Westminster. There is a process that they have to follow.

I can see that I need to bring this to an end. I thank noble Lords for their contributions. The territories really are a massively important part of the UK family. I am deeply committed, as are the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and others, to ensuring that we do everything we need, constitutionally and morally, to support these wonderful overseas territories. We continue to do so.

Sudan: Refugees

Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park Excerpts

Wednesday 24th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to assist the government of South Sudan to support refugees from the conflict in Sudan.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury for his Question and for his long-term and outstanding commitment to the people of South Sudan, including on his recent visit to Juba with the Holy Father and the Moderator of the Church of Scotland.

The violence in Sudan has displaced more than 1 million people internally within the region, including approximately 73,600 people fleeing to South Sudan, where the humanitarian situation is already at crisis level. The UK Government allocated an initial £5 million, including £2 million in South Sudan, to meet the urgent needs of refugees and returnees who are fleeing the violence in Sudan. Today, the Minister for Development and Africa has announced £143 million in humanitarian aid for east Africa, including nearly £20 million for South Sudan.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury]

I am grateful to the Minister for his response. Given that the peace agreement in South Sudan remains extremely fragile and the Government there are at best dysfunctional, incompetent and corrupt, what other measures are the Government taking beyond humanitarian aid in order to address the situation, especially in other countries in east Africa? Will they consider seriously channelling the funds they are making available through civil society groups, especially faith groups, which tend to be more effective in that country in getting money on the ground?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The most reverend Primate is right; he should perhaps not mince his words so much in describing the Government there. The UK is pursuing every diplomatic avenue we can to bring about an end to violence, establish humanitarian corridors, which are essential, and pave the way for meaningful talks. The Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Minister for Africa have engaged on a regular basis with their counterparts in the region, including with partners in neighbouring countries—Kenya, Djibouti, South Sudan and Egypt—with the African Union and with the Intergovernmental Authority on Development. The Foreign Secretary has also engaged directly through various intermediaries with the two military leaders to press further for a cessation of hostilities, and we will continue to work with the international community in every way we can in order to push for a longer-term and more permanent end to the fighting and a return to talks on transitioning to civilian rule.

I apologise that I did not answer the most reverend Primate’s question about funnelling finance through civil society. He is absolutely right: we do not funnel money through Governments in the region; we rely increasingly on established NGOs on the ground, which are often far better placed to direct that money in a useful manner.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the announcement today in New York is very welcome, but let us not forget that that pledge still represents a 13% cut on previous commitments to east Africa. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi, said that resources are essential if we are to address this issue. Can the Minister tell us whether, in addition to financial support, we are able to provide technical support to those countries to ensure that proper assistance is given to those refugees? Can he also tell us how we are supporting the African Union’s efforts for peace and stability in that region?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, we work very closely with the African Union, as I said, and also with neighbouring countries. I cannot add to the data that I have already provided in relation to the financial support we are providing, but I am not sure a 13% cut is correct—I am going to have to get back to the noble Lord if I am wrong about that. However, I think it is the case, based on the figures I have seen, and I will check with the Minister for Africa, that our contribution to the region is increasing, not decreasing, partly as a consequence of the humanitarian crisis that we are discussing today.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the AU, as indeed did the Opposition Front Bench spokesman. Surely the time has come for the AU to mobilise and energise those front-line states neighbouring Sudan, including—as the Opposition Front Bench spokesman mentioned—Egypt, but also Ethiopia, Chad and the Central African Republic. They have a crucial role not just in stabilising the region but in helping with this appalling refugee crisis unfolding on their borders.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right that this is a growing crisis that has huge ramifications for neighbouring countries, as we have already seen, not least from having to cope with the huge movement of very large numbers of people who are often in desperate circumstances. The responsibility, therefore, to forge a lasting ceasefire rests not just on our shoulders but on those of the neighbouring countries as well. That is why the Foreign Secretary, the Prime Minister and the Africa Minister have been engaging so frequently with those neighbouring countries.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, we have heard mention of the other countries that are bearing the brunt, such as Chad, which has received around 60,000 refugees, adding to the 600,000 already there. Does the Minister accept what the charities are saying about the British Government simply not doing enough to facilitate family reunions with safe and legal routes from Sudan? Those from the UK who were eligible for evacuation were told that they would have to leave family members behind in Sudan. There was one example of a British national taking his two children, but he could not bring his pregnant wife because she was a Sudanese citizen. Is enough being done to facilitate children—especially those on their own, who have been abandoned—coming to this country where they have family members? Are we doing enough when other countries, such as Chad and other neighbouring countries, are suffering so dreadfully?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I want to acknowledge the huge contribution being made by neighbouring countries. The noble Baroness mentioned Chad, which I think has taken 75,000 people, but Egypt has taken well over 100,000, South Sudan 71,000 and Ethiopia, the Central African Republic, Saudi Arabia and Libya have all taken significant numbers. If there are other specific examples of difficulties—she alluded to two—I will be keen to ensure that they are seen by the Home Office, which holds responsibility for this policy. To reiterate, our current refugee resettlement schemes allow us to support the most vulnerable refugees direct from regions of conflict and instability. Through those schemes, the UNHCR refers refugees whom it has assessed as in need of resettlement here. For some —indeed, for many—people, it is nevertheless in their best interest to stay close to the region or in a neighbouring country, where there are often similarities in culture, language and bureaucracy, and where they can be supported by international organisations, including the UN, which we support financially.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned that more than 1 million people have been displaced, and that is very serious. But can he tell the House why the Government brought to an end a year early the money allocated to Sudan through their own programme under the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund—the CSSF? In retrospect, does he not agree that this was a mistake? In light of the continued violent conflict, will the Government now restart funds for Sudan under the CSSF programme?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, the CSSF is one tool, or fund, within government that has targeted support historically to Sudan and a whole range of other countries, but it is by no means the only fund available to government. As I mentioned earlier— I will not repeat the figures—we remain a very significant funder. The commitments that we have made in recent days and weeks have added to what is already a significant flow of support to the region.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

Can the Minister confirm that as much as 17,000 metric tonnes were looted from WFP warehouses in Khartoum in the early stages of the crisis? The WFP itself is 15% funded for its work not just in Sudan but in South Sudan, including with those returning every day. How are the Government sustaining the World Food Programme at this critical time?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

I have to admit that I am not aware of the example that the noble Earl gave. I will have to put that to the Minister for Africa and provide a proper response in due course. On the issue of food provision generally, we have provided emergency food aid to an estimated 193,000 people as well as daily water and sanitation provision for 83,000 of the most vulnerable displaced people in South Sudan. This is a key area for us and the record is one that we should not be complacent about but can be proud of.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the refugees referred to by the most reverend Primate in his Question include women and girls who have suffered horrendous sexual and gender-based violence, including rape used as a weapon of war. What are the UK Government doing to help to ensure accountability for the actions of those responsible for these crimes?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

Our starting position is that a competent national or international court should determine whether crimes against humanity or genocide have been committed and who is responsible, and there have been numerous allegations, many of them backed up with impressive evidence, to suggest that very serious things have happened in the region. We remain a staunch advocate for justice. We support the role of the International Criminal Court in investigating war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity. We work with a wide range of NGOs that are monitoring the situation closely, and we will continue to do so.