Draft Soft Drinks Industry Levy (Enforcement) regulations 2018
(6 years, 2 months ago)
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The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Robert Jenrick)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Soft Drinks Industry Levy (Enforcement) Regulations 2018.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. The draft regulations will help to complete the legislative framework for the soft drinks industry levy, which is well known to right hon. and hon. Members and will take effect from 6 April this year, as they may be aware. The levy is an important part of the Government’s childhood obesity plan, and the aim is for it to be a significant element in reducing the problem over the next 10 years. As well as encouraging children and families to make healthier dietary choices, the plan will help children to enjoy an extra hour of physical activity every day.
Children in the UK are consuming far too much sugar—three times the recommended level. The soft drinks industry produces our favourite soft drinks, which are a major source of sugar for children and teenagers, as well as adults. The levy, which has been introduced to encourage soft drinks manufacturers to reduce their sugar content, is already working, even before it comes into force in April: we estimate that approximately half the soft drinks that were above the sugar threshold when the levy was announced in 2016 have been reformulated to reduce their sugar content. We have seen the reformulation from major brands and household names that we are all aware of—Sprite, Fanta and Tango, to name just a few—and other producers have announced plans to reduce the size of larger packs.
All of this is good news for our nation’s children and adults, our health, our teeth, our waistlines and the cost to the national health service. The reformulations have meant that our original revenue forecasts have been lowered, but as we set out clearly when the policy was mooted, our objective was never to raise money from the taxpayers as an end in itself; it was always to improve public health. The revenue will be less than first suggested, but regardless of how much is raised, the Government remain committed to funding the Department for Education with the £1 billion that we originally expected, and providing the devolved Administrations with the full amount that we promised at the time.
Every penny of England’s share of the spending raised by the levy will go towards improving children’s health, including by doubling the primary sports premium to improve the quality of PE in schools. We will also provide extra funding for school breakfast clubs, which can help the most disadvantaged children in society to have a healthier start to the day. Finally, we will provide £100 million in 2018-19 for the healthy pupils capital fund, which helps schools to upgrade their sports grounds, playing fields and changing rooms.
To continue to deliver our objectives, it is vital that we have the enforcement measures we need to ensure that the levy works, and that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has effective compliance powers to prevent evasion, if that proves necessary further down the line. The primary legislation behind the levy is the Finance Act 2017, section 54 of which enables the draft regulations to provide HMRC with the same powers that it uses to tackle every excise duty evasion, including alcohol duty. That makes sense because the supply chains for alcohol and soft drinks are comparable and often involve the same people and similar risks. Enforcement is expected to come under the control of the very experienced compliance teams at HMRC.
The draft regulations specify that, of the enforcement powers in the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979, only those powers that are really useful and relevant will be available for enforcing the levy. That includes powers of entry, search of premises and seizure of drinks, all of which are essential for tackling excise duty evasion and ensuring that legitimate suppliers are not adversely affected by those who engage in criminality. As with the enforcement of other excise duties, the powers will be used only where there are reasonable grounds to suspect non-compliance, and all use will be subject to strict governance procedures. Were HMRC not to have these powers, the risk of fraud would increase significantly and the legitimate businesses that manufacture soft drinks would not be able to compete on a level playing field.
In summary, the Government believe that the soft drinks industry levy is a vital part of our plan to tackle childhood obesity. It is only one of a number of measures being taken by the Government today, and we would like to take more in future. It has had a proven impact. We are seeing that impact in all household brands of soft drinks on the shelves; they will contain less sugar and provide a healthier drink for our children and adults. The regulations provide HMRC with enforcement powers that are proportionate and have been well scrutinised through extensive public consultation, so I hope colleagues will join me in supporting the regulations, which I commend to the Committee.
Clive Lewis (Norwich South) (Lab)
It is a pleasure, Sir Edward, to serve under your chairship. We can all agree that childhood obesity is a health time bomb. It poses serious health issues now, but it will also create health issues for decades to come. It will blight millions of lives with poor health and it will impose huge financial costs on the health service.
The NHS estimates that type 2 diabetes consumes over 8% of the NHS budget, and that is certain to rise in the coming years. It is clear that serious preventive action to protect children and young people from excessively sweet drinks and the industries that promote them aggressively is not only medically sensible but makes financial sense. That is why Public Health England, the British Dental Health Foundation and the Royal College of General Practitioners are all in favour of the levy, and it is why we support it too.
However, it must be clear that this measure on its own simply cannot do the job being asked of it. I have mentioned some headline figures, but they do not capture the scale of what is coming. Type 2 diabetes used to be a disease of middle age. Nowadays diagnosis of the disease in people in their early 30s is commonplace, with teenagers also being diagnosed. That means millions of extra cases, many of which will mean potentially decades more healthcare per person on top of what we would normally expect. That is just one disease. I have not mentioned the increase in strokes, heart disease and cancer: all diseases that will generate decades of extra healthcare spending per patient.
That brings me to the ideological crux of the tax. What is it for? Is it a scrambled attempt to raise money to plug gaps in the education budget, or is it meant to reduce childhood obesity? The Minister mentioned £1 billion guaranteed funding for the Department for Education, and I welcome that, but where is that money coming from? I know that sometimes a magic money tree can be found, but we would like to know for sure where that money is coming from and whether it is ring-fenced and protected.
Can the Minister tell us what assessment has been made of the HMRC’s capacity to enforce the levy, given that it has been widely documented that HMRC lacks the necessary resources and capacity to cope with its current workload, with even more cuts are on the horizon? Can he tell us how HMRC will monitor the effectiveness of its compliance strategy? Can the Minister tell us how the Treasury plans to plug the shortfall in the levy predicted by the Office for Budget Responsibility in relation to funding from the Department for Education for initiatives that he cited that support physical education, after-school activities and healthy eating?
Ultimately, this tax may make a dent or two in reducing childhood obesity, but we know that on its own it will fail in that role. The coming health consequences of obesity will be like a tsunami; this measure on its own is like putting a couple of extra life jackets on the Titanic. For it to have any meaning it must be part of a wider strategy. The Government are planning to cut real-terms spending on public health by 4% a year until 2020. The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health reported last week that most local authorities have cut spending dedicated to promoting physical activity in children. They also criticised the Government for their failure to establish an overarching child health strategy. I know that the Minister mentioned it, but the royal college criticised it with regard to the integrated, holistic approach that would make strategic sense of the levy. The Opposition cannot yet see that plan in place. Finally, will the Minister make an assessment of the impact of the levy on childhood obesity, because many people argue that on its own it will make little or no impact at all?
Robert Jenrick
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his support for the levy, which will play an important part in tackling childhood obesity. As I was at pains to stress in my opening speech, the levy is only one element of a much wider Government strategy. The Opposition and other right hon. and hon. Members will have seen the childhood obesity plan that was published. Nobody pretends that the soft drinks industry levy contains all the elements of that plan, but it is a significant element and, again, I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his support.
The levy is working, and we have seen that in the large number of suppliers of soft drinks that have already reformulated their products. As a result, the tax will raise less revenue than was previously expected. It was never designed as a tax-raiser; it was always designed to stimulate improvements in public health. In the autumn Budget of 2017, we laid out our expectation that the levy would raise around £275 million, yet the Treasury remains 100% committed to the original promise of over £1 billion of extra money for the Department for Education.
Clive Lewis
While we welcome the £1 billion—the extra funding—to plug those gaps, if the Government then cut 3.9% of spending on public health and, it is predicted, millions by 2020, does the Minister not concede that they are giving with one hand and taking with the other?
Robert Jenrick
I dispute the hon. Gentleman’s analysis of our funding of the NHS, which has risen in every year of this Parliament. In the autumn Budget of 2017, the Chancellor committed to providing more money for both the NHS and adult social care.
The levy is an example of where the Government are taking action. We are using the tax code to change behaviours for the public benefit, and we are committed to significant increases in spending for school sports, breakfast clubs and all the other important things that will benefit from the funds coming from the levy. Every single penny raised by the levy will go to support school sports and the public health initiatives that I mentioned, plus the additional revenue that the Treasury committed to and is in no way backing down on, despite the success of the levy.
Robert Jenrick
If the hon. Gentleman does not mind, I will press ahead on this occasion; I have given way to him in the past.
As for the capacity of HMRC, this is a task that HMRC is very used to and has expertise in. It uses that capacity for all forms of alcohol excise duties, such as those that apply to the spirits industry and so on. There is no reason to question whether HMRC can do this work. Indeed, the powers that we are considering today are those that HMRC has requested. The levy has been fully subject to a public consultation with the industry. HMRC’s voice has been heard in that consultation and we believe that HMRC will be effective in enforcing this levy and in ensuring that there is no criminality, or only minimal criminality, involved with it.
As for the question of whether or not we have reviewed, or will review, the impact of the levy, we have committed to such a review—in 2020, I think—so that will be the point at which we can clearly see the impact of the levy on both public health and the industry. With that, Sir Edward, I commend the regulations to the House.
Clive Lewis
I will just clarify matters on the issue of public health cuts and sum up very quickly. We support the levy, but there are caveats. One of the key things that I wanted to mention is public health cuts. The King’s Fund, the widely respected health think-tank, has said that
“too many local government services that affect the public’s health are facing death by a thousand cuts.”
The Local Government Association said in December:
“Cutting the public health budget is short sighted and will undermine the objectives we all share to improve the public's health and to keep the pressure off the NHS and adult social care. Further reductions to the public health budget reinforces the view that central government sees prevention services as nice-to-do but ultimately non-essential.”
How can the sugar levy make sense when many other measures that might help to reduce childhood obesity are being cut? That is something that we will continuously raise when it comes to this levy.
I will conclude by saying that my first priority today is the health and wellbeing of our children—I, too, am not here to defend the soft drinks industry—but in the absence of a thought-through strategy, it is hard to disagree with the British Soft Drinks Association in its response to the Budget in 2017 that
“it’s worth bearing in mind that there is no evidence taxing a single product or ingredient has reduced levels of obesity anywhere in the world.”
The Chair
I will put the question. As a matter of coincidence, I was at my dentist’s this morning and he showed me a rather horrifying film about the danger of sugar, so he will be very interested in our proceedings.
Question put and agreed to.
Draft Representation of the People (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2018
(6 years, 2 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Representation of the People (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2018.
Some Members may know that we have introduced similar regulations today for Northern Ireland and for Scotland. The purpose of the draft regulations is to make registering to vote anonymously more accessible for those who need it most. They will also strengthen the integrity of the electoral register, and improve the registration system for electors.
Last year—this year; let me begin that sentence again. Yesterday marked 100 years since legislation was passed to give some women the right to vote in the UK. That was the first step to the equal franchise in the UK, but the journey to maximise electoral registration continues. For some, the fear of having one’s name and address appear on the electoral register is a barrier to registering to vote and therefore engaging in democracy. It is good that we are debating changes that make it easier for people to exercise their democratic rights. Anonymous registration was first introduced in Great Britain in the Electoral Administration Act 2006, which amended the Representation of the People Act 1983 and provided for the overall structure of the scheme, which protects those whose safety would be at risk if their name or address appeared on the electoral register—for example, victims of harassment or stalking, and some witnesses in criminal court cases. An applicant must provide their local electoral registration officer with evidence that demonstrates that their safety would be at risk. The evidence accepted is prescribed in legislation as either a live court order or an injunction from a set list of orders and injunctions, or what is known as an attestation. That is a signed statement certifying that the applicant’s safety would be at risk if the register contained their name or address. It can be made only by professions listed in legislation as qualifying officers.
About two years ago, Mehala Osborne of Bristol, with the support of Women’s Aid, started a petition to make anonymous registration more accessible for those who need it most. As a result, the Government announced in September 2016 that they would look closely at whether the current system of registering anonymously to vote could be improved to make it easier for survivors of abuse to do so. The Government consulted on changes and received broadly positive responses.
Turning to the detail of the proposed changes to anonymous registration, the draft regulations update the list of court orders and injunctions that can be provided to an electoral registration officer as evidence to demonstrate that someone’s safety would be at risk if their name or address appeared on the register. As evidence, applicants can use domestic violence protection orders made under the Crime and Security Act 2010 or the Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 2015, once that is in force. They will also be able to use female genital mutilation protection orders made under the Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003. Those are new and relevant orders that have been created since the anonymous registration scheme came into force.
The draft regulations will also broaden who can provide attestations. The required seniority for a police officer will be lowered from the rank of superintendent to the rank of inspector, which will make it easier for applicants to obtain an attestation. Police inspectors are frequently in contact with survivors and are well qualified to assess the level of risk to an individual’s safety. Medical practitioners registered with the General Medical Council and nurses and midwives registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council will also be able to act as attesters. Those professionals are again frequently in contact with survivors and are qualified to assess the level of risk. Managers of refuges for those escaping domestic violence can also act as attesters. Anybody who has been supported by a refuge would then have easy access to somebody who can provide attestation. Refuge managers are specialists in their field and, again, we think they are well placed to assess whether an individual’s safety is at risk.
The changes make sure that the evidence required to apply for the scheme is more reflective of the experiences of survivors of domestic abuse, and we hope to make the scheme more approachable and accessible. Women’s Aid strongly welcomes the changes that the statutory instrument makes:
“The proposed new measures send out a clear message to all survivors of domestic abuse: that their voices matter, and their participation in politics matters.”
I turn now to the changes made to the wider registration system, which are included in the regulations. The purpose behind them is to improve the electoral registration process for the citizen and make it easier and more effective for EROs to administer.
They also seek to improve the integrity of the system and the accuracy of the electoral register. They address two recommendations in Sir Eric Pickles’s review of electoral fraud. They are incremental steps, and they seek to ensure that we can make improvements to the registration system before the 2018 annual canvass. Ongoing work will explore how we can reform other aspects of the voter registration system, especially in regard to the annual canvass, to make the service as accessible and secure as possible and to put the citizen first.
The first proposed change addresses recommendation 14 in Sir Eric Pickles’s review. It adds a statement to the paper application form that says that persons who are not eligible electors are ineligible to register to vote, that applicants may be required to provide additional information about their nationality, and that the ERO may carry out checks against Government records. The change seeks to enhance the deterrent against applicants providing false information in respect of their nationality. It reminds the applicants that, if an ERO has concerns, they can and will seek further information to corroborate the information that has been provided.
The second proposed change addresses recommendation 12 of the Pickles review. It adds a statement to the paper application form to inform applicants that their application may be delayed if they do not provide the addresses at which they have ceased to reside within 12 months of the date of their application. The statement aims to minimise the number of incomplete applications submitted on paper forms. The provision of the applicant’s previous addresses is one of two ways in which an out-of-date and redundant entry can be removed from the register through only one source of evidence. It thus serves as a key way to maintain the accuracy of the electoral register.
The third proposed change brings the requirements for who can attest to an applicant’s identity as part of the application process for England and Wales in line with that for Scotland. It ensures consistency across the registration system in Great Britain. It adds the date of additional notices, adding a person’s entry to a register to the provision setting out the timeframe during which a person may attest to the identity of up to two applicants.
The fourth proposed change expands the number of sources of information that EROs can use to remove deceased electors from the electoral register. Where they are not able to obtain a death certificate or registrar notice, they will be permitted to use one of four further sources of evidence to support their decision to remove a deceased elector. The information may come from a close relative, a canvass form, a care home manager or other local records. I am sure that the Committee will agree that using that information is an appropriate way of avoiding unnecessary distress for the relatives of deceased electors. It certainly helps EROs to maintain the accuracy of the register proportionately.
The final proposed change streamlines and simplifies the correspondence that EROs are required to send to electors. The changes are designed to reduce the cost of the registration system and give EROs greater discretion to tailor their approach to the needs of electors. This saving will be achieved by requiring additional information to be included in a first notification to an elector that their entry on the register is under review. That allows the sending of a second notification of the outcome of a review to become discretionary. The regulations also make discretionary the sending of a notification of changes to an elector’s open register preference. In summary, the draft regulations make sensible and proportionate changes to the wider registration system.
Returning to the first item, which the Committee views as important, making it easier to register to vote without your name and address appearing on the electoral register may be a small thing, but it makes a big difference. It means the freedom to live your life, cast your vote and make your choice. As campaigner Mehala Osborne said:
“Survivors in the future will not be denied their voice and democratic right to vote.”
I commend the regulations to the Committee.
Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)
As we all know, the Representation of the People Act 1918 was a crucial step forward in the empowerment of women. Yesterday, as we marked the centenary of property-owning women over the age of 30 winning the right to vote, we were reminded that the fight for equality is a journey. This is just one of the first steps for women—sorry, I am delivering this speech again. The struggle for equality continues. There are still far too few women in Parliament and women still face discrimination in the workplace and in everyday life. As the Minister has outlined, the purpose of this legislation is to give survivors of domestic abuse in England and Wales a voice in our democracy. The issue of domestic abuse is one that concerns all of us, and many of us will know somebody who has experienced some form of domestic abuse. National figures show that one in four women experience domestic violence at some point in their lifetime, and two women are killed by a current or former partner every week.
Sadly, although we are here to discuss changes to the system of anonymous voter registration among other things, we cannot ignore the wider context of Government cuts. As someone who has been a trustee of a women’s aid organisation, I have seen at first hand the amazing work done by women’s refuges in turn round the lives of women and their children. However, women’s refuges have had their budgets slashed by nearly a quarter over the past seven years, despite the Prime Minister’s pledge to boost funding for women escaping violent partners.
Turning specifically to anonymous voter registration, it is not right that survivors who have faced the physical, emotional and psychological impact of abuse are then silenced in our democratic process. Why? Because it is too dangerous for their name and address to be listed on the electoral roll, and too difficult for them to register anonymously. As the Minister has explained, under existing legislation, domestic abuse survivors must provide a court order or have their application supported by a senior independent witness, such as a high-ranking police officer, in order to appear anonymously on the electoral roll. The proposals outlined today will add doctors, nurses and refuge managers to the list of people who can act as an attester, and will lower the rank of police officer—from superintendent to inspector—authorised to perform this function. It is vital that every eligible elector is able to participate in our democracy, which is why the Opposition very much welcome the proposals announced today. We would like to note our thanks to Women’s Aid, which has been at the forefront of shaping and co-ordinating responses to domestic abuse for over 40 years, including this legislation.
However, it is clear that these measures do not go far enough. Survivors still have to re-register to vote anonymously year on year, and those in new homes will have to repeat their application. I hope that in future there will be time to correct that in primary legislation, as the Minister outlined in our first Committee meeting this morning.
The Minister has outlined proposals to expand data sources available to registration officers to enable them to remove entries from the register as a result of death. I recall many campaigning experiences—I am sure that Members on both sides of the Committee can do so—in which it was clear that the person I was seeking to speak to had passed away. It is distressing for the families involved. We welcome the measure, but it is disappointing that the Government seem to be focusing their energy on removing people from the electoral roll, but refuse to use the same data-sharing techniques to address the millions of voters missing from the electoral roll. The Opposition are committed to taking radical steps to increase voter registration and turnout among eligible electors, which is why we have called on the Government multiple times to examine the use of Government data to automatically place eligible electors on the electoral roll. As the Minister is new to her role, can she outline her views on this? The year 2018 cannot be a year for complacency. As we celebrate 100 years of democratic change, we should be looking for a progressive and radical solution to address this country’s democratic deficit.
Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con)
I am grateful to whoever decided to include me in the Committee membership today. As the previous Minister for the constitution, I would like to pay tribute to my successor. She was also my predecessor. All Members will welcome her expertise in this particular area, and I know that she shares my passion and commitment to ensuring that looking at electoral registration and democratic participation should be a matter of social justice. It concerns all Members of the House.
Yesterday was the 100th anniversary of some women—those over the age of 30—winning the right to vote. It was not until 2 July 1928 that we achieved an equal franchise under Stanley Baldwin’s Government. I hope that we will also celebrate the passing of the Equal Franchise Act in which men and women were treated equally and with equal vigour. I wanted to give somebody a voice who is not able to speak in this Committee: Mehala Osborne herself. When I became a Minister in July 2016, I was advised to choose three things to focus on in terms of policy. One is never quite sure how long one is going to be a junior Minister. I focussed on looking at identity, at polling stations on the back of the Eric Pickles review, and at the access to elections review. I am particularly committed to ensuring that people with disabilities and sight impairment have an equal chance to vote.
I believe that 100 years on from the enactment of women’s suffrage, there are still people who, through no fault of their own, face barriers to voting, which means that we do not have 100% participation in our democracy. When Mehala Osborne wrote to me in July 2016, what leapt immediately and clearly off the page was that there was still a group of women who were unable to vote—again, through no fault of their own. If women in domestic violence refuges were on the electoral register, they would risk their security by making themselves known to their violent partners.
A system of anonymous registration had been set up by the previous Labour Government. Originally that was set up to protect the court orders themselves, but it is clear that times have moved on and we need to look at how to improve registration to make a difference for those women. There are 12,000 women in refuges, of whom only about 2,300 in England and Wales have registered anonymously. I know another Committee debated anonymous registration in Scotland, but even fewer women—only 43, I think—use the anonymous registration process there. That is simply because the barriers in the existing system are too great.
What incentive do people in a refuge have to travel across a local authority area to sign up to meet the director of social services so that she can countersign anonymous registration form needed to get a vote? In my area of Avon and Somerset, why would someone want to travel to Portishead to be able to meet with an inspector or chief inspector of constabulary to get him to countersign the form?
When looking at how to renew the legislation, it made sense to trust the refuge manager to sign the form. Why not trust a health professional? I am delighted that the Minister has been able to continue work on the legislation, because I made a commitment to Mehala Osborne that we would seek to introduce such a measure during the centenary year of women getting the right to vote. As a result of passing the draft regulations, all members of the Committee should be celebrating locally the fact that they as Members of Parliament have legislated to ensure that 10,000 women who want to vote, but have not been able to vote so far, will be able to do so.
I am sure we will still be able to make corrections to the process in future. For example, the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood talked about the issue of registration every 12 months versus every five years. We have registration every five years for armed forces personnel at the moment, and that is something that can only be changed in primary legislation. I hope the Minister will consider that in future.
Mehala Osborne set up the campaign because she had wanted to vote in the Bristol mayoral elections but found she was unable to do so. It is right that women who have had their voice taken away from them by a violent partner should be given that opportunity to have their voice heard in our democratic process.
There is much more for the Government to do. Our democratic processes are often about inputs, outputs and the processes of registration itself—it is highly technical, as we can see from the rest of the SI. However, we need to focus on the outcomes and on what we want to achieve from electoral registration. When we look at local authorities registering those individuals, how can we ensure that performance targets are set for the local authorities, so that we double down and focus on those people whom we know are from certain demographics or in vulnerable situations to encourage participation?
I set up National Democracy Week for the week of 2 July this year to ensure that as a nation we can focus on the values of our democracy and registration. I hope that the Minister will participate in and take forward National Democracy Week. What we as legislators have done today in Committee is a great thing—we should all be proud of what has happened, but there is more to do. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak.
Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)
I will be brief, because we are approaching a vote, but I want to raise one specific issue with the Minister. I absolutely support the efforts being made today, and it is appropriate that they are happening in such an historic week when we celebrate women—or some women—gaining the vote back in 1918.
The issue is the interactions of individuals, once they have registered anonymously, with credit reference agencies. From examples from my own constituency, I know that individuals who have registered anonymously have had significant difficulty in getting agencies such as Experian, Callcredit and others to acknowledge their anonymous registration without cumbersome processes. Given that many of the women whom we are talking about today are in a vulnerable situation, they need to be able to access credit and so on without being disadvantaged. Will the Minister say a little about what the Government are doing to work with the agencies to ensure that that process is as transparent and easy as possible? In some cases, agencies have refused to accept anonymous registration certificates in the past, which is obviously a huge problem.
It is clearly excellent that we can support such women who want to vote to be able to do so safely and securely, but we must also ensure that we put the effort into the other under-represented groups. I am thinking in particular of young people and the black and minority ethnic community—in my constituency in Cardiff, we have significant under-representation in those groups.
The armed forces have been mentioned, and many members of the armed forces whom I know do not take up the right to vote or are unable to vote, particularly given the nature of their service. I hope that the Government will take forward all such issues, because everyone has a right to take part in the democratic processes of this country. We need to ensure that they are able to do so as much as possible.
Chloe Smith
I am conscious that I may have as little as two minutes before we have to vote in the Chamber. I shall do my very best to get through the issues.
The hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood made a number of points that were made earlier in the Committee debating the Scotland version of the SI. I refer this Committee to my comments in that Committee about what the Government are doing to support refuges and their funding. I also reiterate that, although it is excellent that we are discussing something that will help women, women are not the only victims of domestic abuse; it is possible for men to be victims as well, and the changes in the draft regulations will apply to everyone.
On the points about indefinite anonymous registration, I have responded to those in the two earlier Committees. My comments are on the record. In the Committee debating the Scotland draft regulations, I responded to the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Laura Smith) that it was the right thing to do to remove dead electors from the register. That is a case of maintaining the accuracy of the register, but the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood and other Members are right to raise the need for completeness. That is why the Government have introduced a full democratic engagement plan, to ensure that we assist in registering everyone who is eligible to register.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood not only for his moving comments today, but for his excellent work—[Interruption.]
The Chair
Order. We were willing the Minister on, but we will have to suspend the sitting.
Chloe Smith
It only remains for me to complete my warm words for my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood, who did excellent work in bringing to readiness the measures before us. I would like to put on record my thanks to him and my officials for that work. I also thank him for his moving speech today. He reminded us of those we do this for, which is extremely important when we discuss legislation.
I will quickly answer the question on credit reference agencies asked by the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth. I confirm that anonymously registered electors are provided with a certificate of anonymous registration, which they can use as evidence to overcome barriers they might encounter, such as with credit reference agencies and other areas where the electoral register comes into play.
I am committed to ensuring that these measures are implemented well. Should I encounter further problems of that kind, I will be sure to ask officials and EROs to look at what can be done. I hope I have answered all the Committee’s questions. I thank the Committee for supporting these important measures in this suffrage year. This is a powerful move and the right thing to do to make matters easier for those who have suffered abuse.
Question put and agreed to.
Autumn Budget as it Relates to Wales
(6 years, 2 months ago)
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The Chair
Before I call Susan Elan Jones, who was speaking before the break, I remind hon. Members who use the headphones that, when they take them off their heads, they should turn the volume down to avoid feedback on the sound system.
Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)
It is a great pleasure to speak when you are in the Chair, Mr Hanson.
Mae’n bleser mawr cael siarad gyda chi yn y Gadair, Mr Hanson.
Dros Gymru a Phrydain gyfan, mae gennym rai o’r gweision cyhoeddus gorau yn y byd, gan gynnwys y bobl sy’n dysgu yn ein hysgolion; y bobl sy’n gweithio yn ein hysbytai; ein diffoddwyr tân a’n heddlu; a’n lluoedd arfog. Mae ein gweision cyhoeddus yn gweithio tu hwnt i’r disgwyl i’n gwasanaethu ni bob dydd a nos. Yr ydym yn aml yn trafod ystadegau yn y lle hwn—mae hynny’n ddigon teg ac yn hanfodol—ond rwyf o’r farn hefyd bod angen inni gyflwyno prawf moesegol i’r gap cyflog ar gyfer gweithwyr sector cyhoeddus.
Yn ddiweddar, roedd nifer fawr o Aelodau Seneddol yn cymryd rhan mewn dadl am dâl ein lluoedd arfog. Gwnaed y pwynt nad oedd cynnydd yn y cyflog yn cyfateb i gost gynyddol tai ar gyfer personél y gwasanaethau arfog. Mynegodd llawer ohonom—yn drawsbleidiol—ein pryder ynglŷn â hyn. Dyna un enghraifft sy’n dangos fy mhryderon am ganlyniad rhewi cyflogau yn y sector cyhoeddus.
Mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam—nid cyngor Llafur, ond un sy’n cael ei redeg gan glymblaid o gynghorwyr Ceidwadol ac Annibynnol—yn dweud ar ei wefan ei fod wedi arbed tua £18 miliwn dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, ac rwy’n credu bydd yn rhaid dod o hyd i £13 miliwn arall dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Mae’r cyngor yn nodi ar ei wefan:
“Mae gennym lai o arian i’w wario bob blwyddyn”.
Felly cytunaf ag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid, Mark Drakeford, a ddywedodd y bydd cyllideb lywodraethol Cymru yn parhau i fod 5% yn is mewn termau real yn 2019-20 nag yn 2010-11. Eto, wrth inni glywed am y pryderon mawr hyn, rydym yn rhoi £3 biliwn heibio i dalu am fethiant y Llywodraeth yn y trafodaethau Brexit. Wrth gwrs, ’dwi ddim yn sôn am y £39 miliwn am y “fargen”—mae’n ddrwg gen i ddefnyddio’r fath air yn y cyd-destun hwn. Doedd dim sôn am y fath beth ar fws enwog yr ymgyrch i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.
Beth am ddyled y Deyrnas Unedig? Yn ôl ffigyrau o’r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol, mae dyled a oedd yn £358.6 biliwn ym mis Mai 1998 erbyn hyn yn £1,726.9 biliwn —swm syfrdanol. Dywedodd Dirprwy Lywodraethwr Banc Lloegr, Ben Broadbent:
“Mae twf cynhyrchiant wedi arafu ym mhob economi uwch, ond mae wedi bod yn fwy difrifol yn y wlad hon nag mewn gwledydd eraill.”
Dywedodd The Daily Telegraph—soniais am y Guardian bore yma, felly rwyf yn cyfeirio at y Telegraph prynhawn yma—fod
“twf cynhyrchiant wedi cwympo”.
Soniodd y newyddiadurwr Tim Wallace yn y Telegraph am y 1860au, sef y degawd diwethaf cyn yr un yma i brofi twf incwm gwironeddol negyddol. Dylai’r sefyllfa bresennol fod o gonsyrn mawr i bob un ohonom.
Er hynny, yn y bôn rwy’n credu mai pobl optimistaidd ydym ni yng ngogeldd Cymru, ac rydw i am orffen ar nodyn optimistaidd. Rwy’n croesawu unrhyw gyhoeddiad am fargen twf gogledd Cymru. Fel dywedais i, byddaf yn ei groesawu’n fwy pan fydd o’n dŵad, ond rydw i yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiad. Mae angen i ni wella’r seilwaith a gweithio’n drawsffiniol i wneud yr A5 a’r A483 yn well ac yn fwy diogel, ac mae angen buddsoddiad i sicrhau mynediad gwell i’n gorsafoedd rheilffyrdd, yn enwedig gorsaf Rhiwabon, yr orsaf ar gyfer traphont ddŵr Pontcysyllte, sy’n gwasanaethu poblogaeth fawr iawn, yn fy etholaeth it.
Mae’n her i bob un ohonom wneud y cytundeb twf yn reality, ac mae’n hollbwysig i ogled Cymru, i bobl Cymru gyfan ac i’n cymdogion ar draws y ffin ein bod ni’n sicrhau bod y cytundeb twf yn gweithio ar gyfer ein cymunedau.
(Translation) We have some of the best public servants in the world, including the people teaching in our schools and working in our hospitals, our firefighters, police officers, armed forces and others. They go above and beyond to serve us, day and night.
We often use statistics while speaking in this place, and that is understandable and, indeed, essential, but we also need to apply an ethical test to a pay cap for public sector workers. Recently, many MPs took part in a debate on pay in the armed forces. The point was made that the wage increase did not correspond with the rising cost of housing for service personnel, and many of us, on a cross-party basis, expressed concerns about that. That is one example of my concerns about what the pay freeze in the public sector can mean.
Wrexham County Borough Council, which is run not by Labour but by a coalition of Conservative and Independent councillors, talks on its website about how it has saved about £18 million during the past three years. I believe that it will have to find another £13 million over the next two years. The council says on its website that it has less money to spend annually. I therefore agreed with Mark Drakeford, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance in Wales, who drew attention to the fact that the Welsh Government’s budget will still be 5% lower in real terms in 2019-20 than it was in 2010-11.
When we hear of these concerns, we acknowledge that we are now putting an additional £3 billion aside in case of failure in the Brexit discussions. Of course, I am not talking about the £39 billion that will be needed in the deal—I am not too happy to be using the word “deal” or “bargain” in this context. There was no warning of that on the leave campaign’s famous bus,
What about the United Kingdom’s debt? According to figures from the Office for National Statistics, the debt that was £358.6 billion in May 1998 is now £1,726.9 billion —a shocking figure.
The Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, Ben Broadbent, said that productivity growth has slowed across all the wealthy nations of the world, but it has been more severe in this country than in others. I mentioned The Guardian this morning, so this afternoon I will mention The Daily Telegraph. It said that productivity growth had decreased.
Tim Wallace, the journalist, talked about the 1860s in The Daily Telegraph, and said that that was the last decade until now that experienced real negative growth. The current situation should be a cause of great concern to all of us.
Essentially, however, I think that we in north Wales are an optimistic people and I will close my speech on an optimistic note. I welcome any announcement on the north Wales growth deal. As I say, I will be more welcoming when it comes, but I welcome the announcements that have been made. We need to improve infrastructure and we need cross-border working to make the A5 and the A483 safer and better, and we need investment to ensure better access to our train stations—particularly Ruabon station, the station for the Pontcysyllte aqueduct, which is very important for my constituency.
The challenge for all of us is to make the promise of the growth deal a reality. It is essential for north Wales—in fact, for the people of all of Wales, and our neighbours on the other side of the border—that we ensure that the growth deal works for our communities.
Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)
Diolch, Mr Hanson, am roi’r cyfle i mi gyfrannu i’r ddadl hanesyddol hon drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Dyma’r tro cyntaf i ni ddefnyddio’r Gymraeg yma yn San Steffan—nid yw hyn wedi digwydd o’r blaen—a dyna pam mae’n ddadl hanesyddol.
Yn siarad yn bersonnol, mae’n arwyddocaol fy mod i’n gallu cyfrannu yn Gymraeg. Pan ges i fy ethol i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ym Mae Caerdydd yn 1999, doeddwn i ddim yn gallu siarad gair o Gymraeg. Ers hynny, rydw i wedi gwnuud fy ngorau i ddysgu’r iaith—iaith y nefoedd. Roedd bob un o’m hynafiaid yn siarad Cymraeg fel iaith gyntaf. Roedd fy rhieni yn siarad Cymraeg fel iaith gyntaf, ond wedi iddynt briodi symudasant i ran o Sir Drefaldwyn lle doedd neb yn siarad Cymraeg. Yn fwy arwyddocaol, roedd pobl yn gweld yr iaith fel iaith o fethiant—doedd neb ar y pryd eisiau siarad Cymraeg. Mae pethau wedi newid heddiw, ond mae lot o pobl wedi anghofio beth oedd y sefyllfa amser maith yn ôl.
Ni chlywais fy nhad na’m mam yn siarad Cymraeg o gwbl, felly ni allai fy mhump chwaer na fi siarad gair o Gymraeg. Nid oeddwn i’n medru gwneud tan i mi ddod yn Aelod o’r Cynulliad. Ar ôl cael fy ethol i’r Cynulliad, lle mae llawer o Gymraeg yn cael ei siarad, gan gynnwys yn y Siambr, penderfynais fy mod i am ddysgu’r iaith. Gallwch weld felly, Mr Hanson, pam mae’r ddadl hanesyddol hon mor bwysig i fi yn bersonnol, yn ogystal â bod yn hanesoddol o ran San Steffan.
Mae’r ddadl Uwch Bwyllgor Cymreig yma yn rhoi’r cyfle i ni ystyried y Gyllideb a beth mae’n olygu i Gymru. Yn fy mharn i—rwy’n gwybod na fydd pawb yn cytuno â hyn—mae wedi bod yn newyddion da iawn i Gymru. Cynuddodd y Gyllideb yr arian ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru wario ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Cynuddodd y grym gwario gan £1.2 biliwn bob blwyddyn, sy’n arwyddocaol iawn. Roedd grym gwario wedi codi £1.2 biliwn bob blwyddyn, ac mae hynny’n arwyddocaol. Pan oeddwn yn Aelod yn y Cynulliad, roedd llawer o drafod am y fformiwla Barnett a’r Barnett floor hefyd. Galw am fwy o arian i Gymru, mwy o rym gwario.
Ar y pryd, roedd pobl yn gweld yr Athro Gerry Holtham fel arbenigwr a bob tro roeddem yn siarad am y Gyllideb yn y Cynulliad, roedd people yn dyfynnu’r Athro Holtham. Nawr, ar ôl cytuno fframwaith cyllid gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, mae’r Athro Holtham wedi disgrifio’r sefyllfa fel a very fair settlement. Mae pethau wedi symud ymlaen lot. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd wedi croesawu’r fframwaith cyllid. Maen nhw’n dweud nawr am long-term fair funding i Gymru. Mae hwn wedi digwydd o dan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol. Rwyf yn falch iawn i glywed pethau fel hyn.
Pwynt arall sydd yn bwysig i mi: yn y Gyllideb roedd y Canghellor yn sôn am gryfhau’r economi ymhob rhan o Gymru. Siaradodd am y Cardiff city deal, y Swansea city deal, am y north Wales growth deal, ac hefyd, am y tro cyntaf, siaradodd am mid Wales growth deal. Mae hyn yn bwysig dros ben; yn hynod o bwysig i mi. Mae’n rhy gynnar i wybod yn union beth mae mid Wales growth deal yn golygu. Mae’n bwysig iawn bod pobl leol yn y canolbarth yn rhoi syniadau. Dyma pam rwyf yn siarad gyda phobl yn sir Faldwyn a thu allan i sir Faldwyn hefyd, yn y canolbarth, a phob corff yn y lle, i gynnig syniadau.
Rwyf wedi bod yn siarad gyda’r Aelod dros Geredigion. Gobeithio byddwn yn gallu cymryd mantais o ymchwil amaethyddol ac amgylcheddol ym Mhrifysgol Aberystwyth a hefyd, gweithio gyda smallholdings ym Mhowys.
(Translation). Thank you, Mr Hanson, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this historic debate through the medium of Welsh. It is the first time we have been able to use the Welsh language in Westminster. It has not happened before, which is why the debate is historic.
Personally speaking, it is significant for me, too, to be able to make my contribution in Welsh. When I was elected to the National Assembly for Wales in Cardiff bay in 1999, I could not speak a word of Welsh. However, since then, I have done my very best to learn the language—the language of heaven. All of my ancestors were first-language Welsh speakers. My parents also spoke Welsh as a first language, but after getting married they moved to a part of Montgomeryshire where nobody spoke Welsh. More significantly, the Welsh language was seen as a failed language; nobody wanted to speak the Welsh language. Things have changed now, but many people have forgotten the situation of many years ago.
I did not hear my father or mother speak Welsh at all, so my five sisters and I could not speak a word of Welsh. I could not do so until I became an Assembly Member. Having been elected to the Assembly, where a great deal of Welsh is spoken, including in the Chamber, I decided that I needed to learn the Welsh language. So, as you can see, Mr Hanson, this historic debate is particularly important to me on a personal level, as well as being historic in terms of events in Westminster.
This Welsh Grand Committee debate gives us an opportunity to consider the Budget and its implications for Wales. In my view—I know that not everyone will agree—it has been very good news for Wales. The Budget increased the funding available to the Welsh Government to spend on public services in Wales. The spending power increased by £12 billion, which is significant. When I was an Assembly Member there was a great deal of debate about the Barnett formula and the Barnett floor, too. There were demands for more funding and more spending powers for Wales.
At the time, Professor Gerry Holtham was seen as an expert on all of these issues, and every time we discussed the Budget in the National Assembly people would quote Professor Holtham. Now, having agreed a financial framework with the Welsh Government, Professor Holtham has described the situation as a very fair settlement, so things have moved on a great deal, and the Welsh Government have also welcomed the financial framework. They see it as long-term fair funding for Wales, and that has happened under a Conservative Government. I am particularly pleased to hear such comments.
The other point that is important to me is that in the Budget the Chancellor spoke about strengthening the economy in all parts of Wales. He spoke about the Cardiff city deal and the city deal in Swansea. He also talked about the north Wales growth deal and, for the first time, he mentioned a mid-Wales growth deal, which is hugely important for me. It is too early to know exactly what a mid-Wales growth deal will mean, but it is important that local people in mid-Wales bring their ideas forward. When I speak to people in my constituency and outside my constituency in mid-Wales, I will encourage everyone and all the organisations involved to bring forward their ideas, and hopefully we will be able to take advantage.
I have spoken to the hon. Member for Ceredigion. I hope we will be able to take full advantage of the environmental and agricultural research undertaken at Aberystwyth University and also work with the smallholdings in Powys.
Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)
Mae yna lawer iawn o bobl yn y gogledd eisiau cymryd rhan yn y ddêl ar gyfer twf. Roeddwn mewn cyfarfod diweddar gyda’r brifysgol ym Mangor. Mae ganddynt syniadau da iawn ond fawr o syniad sut i ymgeisio. Mae’r manylion ar sut ddylai’r cynllun yma weithio yn brin iawn. Onid yw hynny’n neges i’r Llywodraeth y dylsant ddarparu’r wybodaeth yma rwan am fod syniadau da allan yno yn barod i fynd?
(Translation) A great many people in north Wales also want to take part in the growth deal. However, having had a recent meeting with Bangor University, where there are very good ideas, I know that it does not really know how to apply the details, which are scarce, of how the deal will work. That is a message for the Government that they should provide that information now, because there are good ideas out there ready to go.
Glyn Davies
Fel ddywedais i, yn y canolbarth, mae’n amser cynnar iawn. Mae cyfrifoldeb arnom ni i gynnig syniadau. Rwyf yn credu bydd Ysgrifennydd Cymru yn barod i dderbyn syniadau. Mae’n gyfle i gryfhau’r economi yng ngogledd Cymru ac yn y canolbarth. Mae’n bwysig hefyd i gryfhau’r cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth rhwng y canolbarth a chanolbarth Lloegr. Mae’n bwysig cysylltu gyda’r farchnad yng nghanolbarth Lloegr. Mae’r Newtown bypass yn agor eleni; mae hyn yn bwysig. Mae pont newydd yn symud ymlaen ym Machynlleth, dros y Dyfi.
Y cam nesaf yw cael ffordd newydd rhwng Trallwng a ffin Lloegr yn sir Amwythig. Mae’n bwysig cael cysylltiad rhwng y canolbarth a Lloegr. Mae’r farchnad yn bwysig i ni ac rwyf eisiau gweld y growth deal yn y canolbarth yn canolbwyntio ar hynny. Hefyd, wythnos nesaf, mae £7 miliwn yn mynd i fewn i’r rheilffordd rhwng y Drenewydd ac Aberystwyth. Mae lot yn digwydd. Mae cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth yn bwysig iawn os ydym am weld y canolbarth yn symud ymlaen.
Mae prosiect Pumlumon yn bwysig hefyd. Dydy pobl ddim yn gwybod lot am y prosiect, ond y cynllun yw i dalu ffermwyr â dros 100,000 erw—rhaid i mi edrych i weld os ydw i’n dweud yr un peth yn Gymraeg—i stopio llifogydd yn Lloegr. Mae hyn yn bwysig iawn a bydd yn dda i ffermwyr yn y canolbarth. Bydd yn help mawr i arbed gwario miliynau i stopio llifogydd yn Lloegr. Mae growth deal yn y canolbarth yn beth da ar gyfer hyn. Mae camlas Mynwy yn bwysig, yn mynd dros y ffin, a gobeithio gall y buddsoddiad ynddo fod yn rhan o’r mid-Wales growth deal hefyd.
Rwyf wedi bod yn Aelod yn y Cynulliad ac yn Aelod yma yn San Steffan, ac rwy’n deall bod angen i’r ddwy Lywodraeth weithio gyda’i gilydd i gael yr elw mwyaf. Mae hyn yn digwydd a dyma pam rwy’n optimistig ac yn credu bydd hyn yn parhau trwy berthynas bositif. Dwi ddim yn darllen beth sydd yn y cyfryngau. Mae’r ddwy Lywodraeth yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd ac mae hyn yn bwysig.
I orffen, rwyf eisiau mynd yn ôl at yr iaith Gymraeg a sut mae gwleidyddiaeth a materion cyhoeddus yn cael eu darlledu yng Nghymru. Dylai beth sy’n digwydd yng Nghymru—yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol—gael mwy o sylw yn y cyfryngau yng Nghymru. Rydym ni i gyd yma yn dibynnu ar ddarlledu yng Nghymru i gysylltu â phobl Cymru i ddweud wrthyn nhw beth rydym ni’n gwneud yma. Rwy’n dibynnu ar y BBC, S4C a ITV i wneud hyn.
Roedd yn grêt gweld Radio Cymru 2 yn dechrau mis diwethaf. Mae’n bwysig iawn i Gymru a dwi’n llongyfarch Betsan Powys ar ei gwaith. Heddiw, rwyf eisiau dweud fy mod yn siomedig ar ôl clywed bod “O’r Senedd” yn gorffen—mae pawb yn adnabod y rhaglen—a dydw i ddim yn gwybod beth sydd yn dod yn ei lle. Dydw i ddim yn meddwl mai rhaglen sy’n delio â gwleidyddiaeth sy’n dod yn ei lle. Rwyf hefyd yn cofio “CF99”. Os rydym am gysylltu â phobl Cymru, mae rhaglenni fel “O’r Senedd” yn bwysig iawn i ni. Dydw i ddim eisiau gweld yn lle “O’r Senedd” rhyw fath o adloniant; rwyf eisiau gweld y cyfryngau yng Nghymru yn delio â gwleidyddiaeth yma yn San Steffan mewn ffordd ddifrifol. Yr unig ffordd rydym ni yn gallu cysylltu gyda’r bobl yng Nghymru yw trwy’r cyfryngau. Gobeithio, yn lle “O’r Senedd”, bydd rhyw fath o raglen sy’n delio â’r pynciau pwysig i Gymru mewn ffordd ddifrifol.
(Translation) As I said, in mid-Wales it is at a very early stage. There is a responsibility on all of us to bring forward ideas. I think the Secretary of State for Wales is willing to take on board these ideas, and that is where we are at the moment. I see an opportunity to strengthen the economy of north and mid-Wales. I also believe it is important to strengthen the transport links between mid-Wales and the midlands. It is hugely important that we can link up with the markets in the midlands. The Newtown bypass will open this year. That is important, and the new bridge over the Dyfi in Machynlleth is making progress.
The next step is to have a new road between Welshpool and the border with England in Shrewsbury. It is important to have those connections with England. The market is hugely important to us, and I want to see the growth deal in mid Wales focusing on that issue. Also, next week, £7 million will be invested in the railway between Newtown and Aberystwyth.
Also, next week, £7 million will be invested in the railway between Newtown and Aberystwyth. There is a great deal happening. Transport links are hugely important if mid-Wales is to make progress.
The Pumlumon project is also important. I do not know too much about it yet, but as I understand it the plan is to pay farmers—those with 100,000 acres, I think, but I will have to check that figure—to stop run-off from their land. That is hugely important. It will be positive for farmers in mid-Wales, and it will be of huge assistance in saving millions of pounds on flood prevention work in England. The mid-Wales growth deal is very positive. The Montgomery canal is also important, and I hope that investment in that is part of the mid-Wales growth deal, too.
Having been a Member of the Assembly and a Member here in Westminster, I have come to understand that the two Governments must work together if we are to achieve maximum benefit. I think that is happening, so I am optimistic. I think a positive relationship can develop between the Governments. I do not read about what is happening in the media. The Governments are working together, and that is hugely important.
To conclude, I want to move back to the issue of the Welsh language and how politics and public affairs are covered in Wales. What happens in Wales—and in the National Assembly—should get more coverage in the media in Wales. We are all reliant on broadcasters in Wales to connect with the people of Wales and inform them about what is happening here. That is hugely important. I think of the role of the BBC, S4C and ITV in delivering those messages.
It was wonderful to see Radio Cymru 2, a second Welsh-language radio channel, established last month. That is hugely important for Wales, and I congratulate Betsan Powys for the work that she has done. However, I was a little disappointed to hear that the S4C programme “O’r Senedd” is to cease broadcasting. I am not sure what is going to replace it, but I do not think that it will be a programme dealing with politics. I remember when “CF99” was on S4C. If we are to connect with the people of Wales, programmes such as “O’r Senedd” are hugely important. I raise that point because I do not want to see some sort of entertainment provided in place of “O’r Senedd”. I want to see the media in Wales cover politics here in Westminster and at the Assembly seriously. The only way that we can connect to the people of Wales is through the media. I hope that “O’r Senedd” will be replaced by some sort of programme that covers the important issues of the day for Wales.
Hywel Williams
Rwy’n falch eithriadol o’r cyfle yma i siarad yn y ddadl hanesyddol hon. Fel pawb arall, rwy’n falch iawn o’r diwedd i gael siarad Cymraeg yn y Tŷ hwn yn Llundain. Cefais y cyfle i siarad Cymraeg o’r blaen, pan aeth yr Uwch Bwyllgor i Wrecsam dro yn ôl, ond mae siarad yr iaith yn San Steffan yn gam arwyddocaol pellach, wrth i’r awdurdodau yma yn Llundain ddygymod o’r diwedd â’r ffaith mai nid gwladwriaeth uniaith ydy’r Deyrnas Gyfunol.
Yn wir, yn gynyddol daw unieithrwydd cyhoeddus yn eithriad yng Nghymru, dwi’n credu. Heblaw am y dadleuon amlwg i mi fel unigolyn fod medru siarad Cymraeg, a hawl fy etholwyr i gael eu cynrychioli drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, mae elfen gref iawn o synnwyr cyffredin o blaid symud at sefyllfa lle mae cyfrwng ein trafodaethau ni yma yn adlewyrchu’r ffaith bod natur ieithyddol ein gwlad ni yn wahanol. Dylem adlewyrchu sut mae pethau yng Nghymru, ac mae medru siarad Cymraeg yn rhan o hynny.
Fy mwriad prynhawn yma ydy siarad yn fyr am gynigion y Canghellor ynghylch credyd cynhwyshol, ac yn wir—bydd Aelodau Llywodraeth yn falch iawn i glywed hyn—i groesawu’r newidadau hynny, cyn belled ag y maent yn mynd. Tydi nhw ddim yn mynd hanner digon pell i mi a, fel llawer o bobl sy’n cymryd diddordeb yn y maes yma, buaswn yn licio gweld y newidiadau yn mynd yn bellach. Tydi’r newidiadau ddim yn mynd hanner digon pell i bobl a fydd yn hawlio’r fudd-dal yn y dyfodol, wrth i gredyd cynhwysol ddod i fewn. A tydi nhw ddim yn mynd hanner pell i mi fel rhywun sydd yn cynrychioli pobl ac yn pwyso ar yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau am welliannau a newidiau.
Mae’r pryderon am y drefn newydd eisioes yn ddigon clir. Ar 9 Hydref y llynedd, yn nghwestiynnau’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau, gofynnais i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, a oedd newydd gael ei benodi ar y pryd, pa gynnydd a wnaed wrth ddod â chredyd cynhwysol i fewn a lle oeddem ni arni hi. Bydd rhai Aelodau yn gwybod, wrth gwrs, bod peilot wedi cael ei redeg ers tro yn ardal Shotton a bod hynny’n cynrychioli tua 5% o’r boblogaeth sydd ar hyn o bryd yn medru hawlio credyd cynhwysol. Ateb yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol oedd bod y fudd-dal newydd yn dod i fwcwl yn unol â’r cynllun, ac rŷm ni’n gweld y cynllun hwnnw yn dod i fewn rwan.
Dywedais wedyn fod cryn gefnogaeth i egwyddorion credyd cynhwysol. Rwy’n credu bod yna gytundeb ar draws y Tŷ bod yr egwyddorion—sicrhau incwm a sicrhau bod pobl yn medru mynd i’r gwaith yn haws o lawer—yn dda iawn, ond yn ôl neb llai na Syr John Major, nodweddion dwyn credyd cynhwysol i fewn hyd yn hyn yw
“gweithredu bler, anhegwch cymdeithasol a diffug trugaredd”.
Efallai bod ei eiriau gwreiddiol yn y Saesneg yn taro’n galetach:
“operationally messy, socially unfair and unforgiving”.
Gofynnais i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol felly, fel cwestiwn atodol, i ohurio dwyn y cynllyn i fewn yn ei grynswth. Os na fedrai wneud hynny, roedd yna gwpwl o bethau roeddwn i eisiau iddo eu gwneud, sef dileu’r cyfnod aros gan wythnos a thalu’r budd-dal pob pythefnos yn hytrach na phob mis. Bydd Aelodau yn gyfarwydd â’r problemau a all godi hefo trio cyllido am fis ar swm gymharol fach. Wrth gwrs, mi oedd yna gyfnod aros lle roedd pobl yn disgwyl am wythnos heb gael budd-dal.
Bydd Aelodau yn gyfarwydd â dadl y Bonheddwr gwir anrhydeddus dros Chingford a Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith), sef awdur y drefn yma. Dywedodd y dylai credyd cynhwysol adlewyrchu’r byd gwaith: mae rhan fwyaf o bobl yn cael eu talu’n fisol, felly dylai’r fudd-dal fod yn fisol hefyd er mwyn eu paratoi i fynd i swydd. Wrth gwrs, mae hyn yn anwybyddu’r ffaith fod llawer yn debygol o fod ar gredyd cynhwysol am gyfnodau amhenodol—cyfnodau hir iawn—heb obaith am waith. Yn fwyaf sylfaenol, mae hyn yn anwybyddu anawsterau garw didoli symiau bach o incwm dros fis cyfan yn hytrach na dros wythnos neu pythefnos.
Dro yn ôl, rhedais surgery i gynghori pobl oedd yn gorfod ymdopi efo’r treth llofftydd—y taliad am lofft ychwanegol. Rhoddodd un ddynes restr o’i gwariant i mi. Roedd £1 ar waelod y rhestr. Gofynnais, “Be’ ’di’r bunt yna?” Atebodd, “Wel, ’dwi’n gorfod cerdded lawr i’r dre i siopa, ac unwaith pob pythefnos, ’dwi ddim yn cerdded yn ôl, ’dwi’n mynd ar y bys.” Dyna beth oedd y bunt. Mae pobl ar arian wythnosnol yn medru ymdopi yn rhyfeddol o fanwl hefo’r hyn o arian sydd ganddynt, yn bennaf wrth gwrs am nad oes gennyn nhw ddewis.
Ni chytunodd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i’m cais i ohirio cyflwyno’r budd-dal, ond dywedodd rhywbeth arwyddocaol: y byddid yn gwneud newidiadau pan ac os fydd angen, fesul tipyn. Roedd hynny’n rhywbeth reit bositif iddo ddweud: nad oedd popeth yn gwbl sefydlog, ac y gellir gweud newidiadau. A dyma ni—mae rhai newidiadau yn y Gyllideb, er rhai bychain ac annigonol ydyn nhw. Er hynny, mae nhw i’w croesawu.
Felly beth yw’r newidiadau? Daw y cyfnod disgwyl am fudd-dal i lawr o chwech wythnos i bump—o 42 diwrnod i 35. Fel bydd rhai Aelodau yn gwybod, telir y budd-dal yn fisol, ond rhaid disgwyl pythefnos ychwanegol ar y dechrau. Mae hyn wedi achosi problemau sylweddol yn barod. Natur y chwech wythnos oedd: pedair wythnos i wirio’r incwm—gan fod pobl am gael eu talu yn fisol, rhaid cael manylion incwm am fis—wedyn wythnos i brosesu ac wythnos i ddisgwyl. Mae’r wythnos i ddisgwyl wedi mynd. Roedd y rhan fwyaf ohonom sydd yn cymryd diddordeb yn y maes yma yn gwybod nad oedd yr wythnos ddisgwyl yn golygu fawr o ddim byd yn ymarferol.
(Translation) I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this historic debate. Like everyone else, I am also very pleased finally to be able to speak Welsh here in Westminster. I have had the opportunity to speak Welsh before, when the Grand Committee went to Wrexham a while ago, but being able to speak Welsh in Westminster is a further significant step forward, as the authorities here in London finally come to terms with the fact that the United Kingdom is not a monolingual state.
In fact, monolingualism in Wales will become the exception. Apart from the obvious arguments that stop me as a Welsh speaker being able to speak Welsh, it also restricts the ability of my constituents to be represented through the medium of Welsh. There is a strong common sense element in favour of moving to a position where the medium of our discussions here reflects the fact that the linguistic nature of our country is diverse. We should be reflecting the situation in Wales, and speaking Welsh should be a part of that.
My intention this afternoon is to speak briefly about the Chancellor’s proposals on universal credit and—Government Members will be pleased to hear this—to welcome the proposed changes in so far as they go, although I would say that they do not go far enough. I think the same would be true of many people who take an interest in this area, who would like to see the changes go further. It is certainly not far enough for the people who will be claiming the benefit in the future, as universal credit comes in. It does not go far enough for me, as someone who represents people and presses on the Department for Work and Pensions for improvements in this regard.
The concerns about the new system are clear enough. On 9 October last year, in DWP questions, I asked the then Secretary of State, who was new at the time, having just been appointed, what progress he had made in bringing in universal credit and where we had reached. As some hon. Members will know, a pilot had been run in the area of Shotton. That represented about 5% of the population who can now claim universal credit. The response of the Secretary of State was that the new benefit was about to come in as expected, and we see the scheme coming into force now.
I then said that there was quite a bit of support for the principle behind universal credit. I think that there is agreement across the House that the principle of universal credit is a very good one, ensuring that people have an income and can go into work much more easily. The agreement on universal credit is in place, but none other than Sir John Major said, with regard to this matter, that the way that universal credit had been brought in up until now was chaotic and showed a lack of mercy. It perhaps comes across better in his own words:
“operationally messy, socially unfair and unforgiving”.
I therefore asked, as my supplementary question, for the scheme to be postponed as a whole. If that were not possible there were a couple of things that I wished the Department to do: to bring the waiting period down a week and to pay the benefit every fortnight instead of every month. Hon. Members will be aware of the problems that may arise from trying to budget for a month on a comparatively small sum. Of course, there was a waiting period where people could wait for a week without receiving any benefits.
Members will be familiar, of course, with the argument of the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith), who was the author of the system. He said that universal credit should reflect the working world: the majority of people are paid monthly, so the benefit should also be paid on a monthly basis, and that would prepare people for the world of work and getting a job. That ignores the fact that many people are likely to be on universal credit for periods that may not be defined, without any hope of getting work. More fundamentally, I believe that it ignores the difficulties of dealing with small sums over a month, rather than a week or a fortnight.
Some time ago, I ran a surgery to advise people who were dealing with the bedroom tax. A woman who came in with a list of expenditure that had £1 at the bottom. I asked, “What’s that £1 for?”, and she said, “Well, I have to walk down to town to shop. Once a fortnight, I don’t walk back. I take the bus.” That is what it was for. People on a weekly budget cope remarkably well, mainly because they have no other choice.
The Secretary of State did not agree with my proposal to delay or postpone bringing the benefit in, but he said something significant: changes will be made when necessary, as necessary and step by step. It was positive of him to say that the benefit is not entirely set in stone and that changes can be made. Now there are welcome changes in the Budget, although they are quite small and insufficient.
Those changes reduce the waiting period from six weeks to five weeks—that is, from 42 days to 35. Some hon. Members will know that the benefit is paid monthly, but that people have to wait an additional fortnight at the beginning, which has already caused significant problems. Those six weeks include four weeks to check income, because people are paid monthly so the details of their monthly income are needed, then a week for processing time and a week of waiting. That week of waiting has gone.
Most of us who take an interest in this subject know that that week of waiting meant very little and had no practical purpose.
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
Mae’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn gwneud pwynt pwysig, ond ’dwi’n siŵr ei fod yn gwybod bod unrhyw un gyda anawsterau ariannol yn gallu benthyg arian o’r Adran i sicrhau nad ydynt yn cael problemau. [Ymyrraeth.]
(Translation) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but I am sure he is aware that anyone with financial problems can borrow money from the Department to ensure that those problems are overcome. [Interruption.]
Hywel Williams
Mae’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn gwneud pwynt da iawn, a byddaf yn sôn am hynny gyda hyn. Mae’n bosib cael taliad, ond fel dywedodd fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus dros Dwyfor Meirionnydd o’i chadair, benthyciad yw hwnnw, nid taliad.
(Translation) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. I will come to that in a moment, but I might as well say now that it is possible to have a payment beforehand, but that is a loan rather than a payment, as my hon. Friend the Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd said from a sedentary position.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
That change puts people into debt straightaway. The Government have not addressed the flaws in the system. The Trussell Trust says that in areas where universal credit has been rolled out for six months or more, there has been a 30% increase in people taking up food parcels. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that those statistics lay bare the link between welfare reform and emergency help?
Hywel Williams
Mae’r Foneddiges anrhydeddus yn gwneud pwynt arbennig o dda. Mae’r Trussell Trust, a mudiadau eraill wrth gwrs, yn rhedeg banciau bwyd trwy Gymru gyfan, ac maen nhw wedi cynyddu’n sylweddol. Mae gennym ni rhai da iawn yng Nghaernarfon ac ym Mangor, a ’dwi wedi bod yna yn eu gweld nifer o weithiau. Gyda llaw, fy marn i am fanciau bwyd yw bod o’n dda i’w cael nhw, ond yn gywilydd bod gennym eu hangen. Fel dywedodd y Foneddiges anrhydeddus, mae cael benthyciad ar y dechrau yn golygu bod yna ddyled yn syth bin. Tydi hynny ddim yn safbwynt da i gychwyn gyrfa fel hawliwr credyd cynhwysol. Nes ymlaen, wna’i sôn am ymchwil sydd wedi cael ei wneud yn Sir Fflint ynglŷn â lle mae’r problemau efo credyd cynhwysol. Bydd hyn yn ddadlennol.
O’r hyn roeddwn i’n deall, prif bwrpas yr wythnos o ddisgwyl oedd arbed arian. Doedd dim pwrpas arall iddi. ’Dwi’n eithriadol o falch o weld y cyfnod yna yn mynd, ond gallasai’r Canghellor fod wedi gwneud llawer mwy, er enghraifft, torri’r cyfnod prosesu hefyd, fel bod rhywun yn cael yr arian mwy neu lai’n syth bin ar ddiwedd y pedair wythnos pan mae’r incwm wedi’i wirio.
Newid arall ydy, fel y sioniodd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Fynwy, y bydd taliad ymlaen llaw ar gael o dan rhai amgylchiadau o fewn pump diwrnod o wneud y cais. Yn fuan iawn, bydd rhywun yn dod i sylweddoli efallai nad yw’r credyd cynhwysol ddim yn ddigon a bydd rhywun yn medru gwneud cais am bres ychwanegol. Gobeithio bydd pobl ddim yn mynd heb ddim. Ond er hynny, fel ddywedodd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Ddwyrain Casnewydd, mae hyn yn rhoi rhywun i fewn i ddyled. Y newid arall positif a gyhoeddodd y Canghellor oedd bod y cyfnod talu’n ôl yn 12 mis yn hytrach na chwech. Ond benthyciad ydy hwn. Newid bychan ond un i’w groesawu. A dyna ni yn y bôn, hyd y gwela i, o’r Gyllideb. Nid y cyfnod disgwyl ydy’r brif broblem efo credyd cynhwysol, na chwaith y taliadau ymlaen llaw.
Hoffwn siarad ychydig bach am y pethau y byddwn i a Phlaid Cymru yn hoffi gweld yn cael eu newid ynglŷn â’r budd-dal, fel rhyw rhestr siopa i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol a’r Canghellor at y dyfodol. Mae credyd cynwhysol yn arbennig o bwysig i Gymru, gyda chynifer o bobl yn medru ei hawlio. Ac i fod yn blaen—waeth i ni fod yn blaen ddim—mae hynny am fod gennym ni gymaint o bobl sy’n dlawd ac ar gyflogau isel. Dyna pam rydym yn medru hawlio gymaint o’r arian yma ar gyfradd uwch na’r Alban a Lloegr.
Bydd y cyfanswm o bobl sy’n medru hawlio credyd cynhwysol yng Nghymru yn cynrychioli tua 400,000 o aelwydydd. Mae hyn yn gyfran enfawr o’r bobl sydd yn byw yn ein gwlad, yn arbennig o gofio mai cartrefi ac aelwydydd yw’r 400,000, ac mae’r teuluoedd sy’n byw yno—y plant a’r gŵr neu’r wraig—yn ychwanegol i hynny. Felly, bydd y nifer absoliwt o bobl fydd yn dibynnu i ryw raddau ar gredyd cynhwysol yn sylweddol eto. Oherwydd hynny, byddai diwygio pellach o fudd eithriadol i ni yng Nghymru, yn arbennig o gofio fod pobl ar incymau is yn tueddi i wario’n lleol ac mae’r bunt sy’n cael ei gwario’n lleol yn mynd ymhellach o lawer yn yr economi lleol hefyd. Felly, nid mater absoliwt o gael incwm ychwanegol yw hyn, ond hefyd rhoi hwb i’r economi lleol.
(Translation) The hon. Lady makes an exceptionally good point. The Trussell Trust and other organisations run food banks throughout Wales. The number of food banks has increased substantially—we have two very good ones in Caernarfon and Bangor, which I have visited many times. It is good to have them, but it is shameful that we need them. I will try to assist them. As the hon. Lady said, receiving a loan at the beginning means that debt is immediately accrued, which is not a great position for someone receiving benefits to start from.
The problems in Flintshire are illustrative of the problems with universal credit. From my understanding, the main purpose of the additional week of waiting was to save money, so I am glad that it has been removed. The Chancellor could have done much more, however, such as trying to cut down on the processing time so that people get the money almost immediately after the four weeks in which income has been checked.
The other proposed change is that the payment beforehand, which the hon. Member for Monmouth mentioned, will be available five days before. Very soon, people will come to see that universal credit may not be sufficient, and it will be possible to apply for further funding. I hope people will not lose out or go without anything as a result because, as the hon. Member for Newport East said, that can lead to debt. The other positive change that the Chancellor introduced was to make the repayment period 12 months, rather than six. I welcome that change, although it is very small. I do not think the waiting time or the advance payments are the biggest problem with universal credit.
I would like to talk about some of the things that I and Plaid Cymru would like to see in relation to the benefit—a sort of shopping list for the Secretary of State and the Chancellor to look at in the future. Universal credit is extremely important for Wales, because we have so many people who can claim it. To be plain—we might as well speak plainly—that is because we have so many people who are poor and on low incomes, which is why we claim the benefit at a higher rate than England and Scotland.
About 400,000 households can claim universal credit in Wales, which is a huge number, particularly when we bear in mind that there are other members of those families, including children, so a huge number of people are to some extent dependent on universal credit. Further reform would be extremely beneficial for us in Wales, particularly bearing in mind that people on lower incomes tend to spend their money locally. A pound that is spent locally goes much further in the local economy. This is about not simply getting additional income, but boosting the local economy.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
I am following what the hon. Gentleman is saying very closely. Is he aware of a study commissioned by the University of Cambridge and University College London, which found that austerity killed 45,000 people between 2010 and 2014, and that a further 152,000 people will die because of austerity between 2018 and 2020? It describes austerity as economic murder. Does he agree that Wales is particularly vulnerable to the impact of that inhumane policy?
The Chair
Order. Before I call the hon. Member for Arfon, may I remind Members that, when they stand to speak or intervene, they must turn down the volume of their headsets? Otherwise, we all hear the noise that we are currently experiencing in our headsets.
Hywel Williams
Diolch i’r Aelod anrhydeddus dros Orllewin Abertawe am y pwynt hwnnw. Doeddwn i ddim yn ymwybodol o’r ymchwil arbennig yna. Rydym yn sôn fan hyn am bobl sydd reit ar ymyl y dibyn yn aml: pobl cyn agosed â phosib i fod mewn tlodi absoliwt, ynghyd â phobl sydd ar incymau isel sydd mewn gwaith ac yn ceisio mynd i fewn i’r gwaith. Mae’r ffigyrau hynny’n frawychus.
Mae dipyn mwy o ymchwil yn dod i’r fei ynglŷn â hyn. Dwi wedi bod â diddordeb ynddo ers blynyddoedd lawer, yn bennaf oherwydd fy mod yn ymwybodol bod llawer o bobl yn fy etholaeth eisiau hawlio trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ond bod y ddarpariaeth ddim yna. Wnai sôn am hynny mewn munud. Mae fwy o ymchwil yn dod i’r fei rwan, gan gynnwys, Mr Hanson, o’ch ardal chi, gan Gyngor ar Bopeth Flintshire Citizens’ Advice. Buaswn yn cymeradwyo’r adroddiad “Our local experience of Universal Credit Full Service” i’r Aelodau anrhydeddus yn yr ystafell ac i unrhyw un sydd yn gwrando. Mae yna adroddiad misol—mae hwn o fis Hydref, mae un arall gen i fan hyn o fis Tachwedd y llynedd. Maen nhw’n cyhoeddi ffigyrau a ffeithiau digon diddorol. Bydd yr Aelodau anrhydeddus yn cofio, wrth gwrs, fod credyd cynhwysol wedi cael ei redeg fel peilot yn Shotton, felly mae ganddynt ddeunydd crai ar gyfer eu hymchwil sydd ddim ar gael mewn llefydd eraill. Mae ffeithiau dadlennol yno; roeddwn yn sbio arnynt rwan, tra’r oedd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Drefaldwyn yn siarad. Mae tri-chwarter y bobl a ddaeth atynt am gyngor yn ferched. Mae yna rhaniad gender eithaf sylweddol yn y fan yna.
Fel gwybodaeth i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol a’i Gyfaill gwir anrhydeddus, y Canghellor, mae’r problemau oedd yn codi yn sir y Fflint yn codi allan o bethau fel camgymeriadau gan yr adran ei hun—roedd rheina’n frith; hawlio ar-lein yn broblemus yn arbennig i bobl heb sgiliau llythrennedd; gorfod disgwyl ar y ffôn yn ddiddiwedd; budd-dal tai ddim ar gael ar amser neu ddim yn cael ei dalu o gwbl; a’r cyfnod aros yn wrthgymhelliad â phobl yn dweud na allent ddisgwyl am chwech wythnos i gael yr arian. Yn fwyaf arwyddocaol, i ddweud y gwir, mae rhan fwyaf y problemau’n codi o gwmpas y cais cyntaf, gyda phobl yn ceisio gwneud cais ac yn methu neu yn cael camgymeriadau wrth wneud.
Does dim gwybodaeth fan hyn, gyda llaw, ynglŷn â hawlio trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Roedd y peilot oedd yn cael ei rhedeg yn Shotton, lle nad oes cymaint o bobl yn siarad Cymraeg, ond dwi’n siwr y daw hyn i’r amlwg wrth i’r system gael ei weithredu trwy Gymru gyfan. Pan es i Shotton i weld y system gyfrifiadurol sydd ganddynt—mae hyn eto yn bwynt i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol a’i gyfeillion yn y Cabinet—doedd y system ddim wedi ei chynllunio efo dwyieithrwydd yn y golwg. Hynny yw, system trwy gyfrwng y Saesneg a chais i foltio’r Gymraeg arni oedd bryd hynny o leiaf. Oherwydd hynny, roedd yna broblemau garw efo’r feddalwedd—does dim amheuaeth am hynny. Dwi yn ofni y gwelwn ni ragor o broblemau efo hynny. Buasai’n dda gweld y Llywodraeth yn gweithredu ymhellach na’r Canghellor y tro hwn.
Hoffwn orffen trwy nodi ychydig o newidiadau buddiol, fel rhyw rhestr siopa at y dyfodol, i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol a’i Gyfaill gwir anrhydeddus, y Canghellor. Mae yna fân-doriadau wedi bod i gredyd cynhwysol yn barod ers iddo ddod i fewn. Mae yna rywfaint o dorri fan hyn a fan draw, rhyw dameidiau bach sydd yn mynd yn fwy ac, erbyn hyn, mae e’n £3 biliwn yn is o ran gwariant. Mae’n swm sylweddol iawn o ystyried bod y £3 biliwn yna, yn y bôn, yn dod o bocedi hawlwyr sydd ar incwm digon isel i hawlio, digon isel fel mae. Fel canran o’r boblogaeth, maen nhw’n colli £3 biliwn. Hefyd, ar hyn o bryd, mae hawliwr yn colli 63c o bob punt ychwanegol o incwm. Felly, os ydy rhywun yn gweithio fymryn yn galetach a chael punt ychwanegol o incwm, maen nhw’n colli 63c o fudd-dal. Dyma’r tapr.
Pan nes i ddechrau cymryd diddordeb yn y maes hwn bron i 30 mlynedd yn ôl erbyn hyn, pan oedd y Social Security Act 1986 yn dod i fewn, bryd hynny roedd y tapr yn fwy na phunt am bunt. Bydd rhai Aelodau yn cofio hynny: rhywun yn ennill £1 ac yn colli £1.20 oherwydd daeth budd-dal tai i fewn. Diolch byth, mae e lawr i 63c yn y bunt rwan, yn hytrach na 65c yn lled-ddiweddar. Mae’n parhau i fod yn llawer rhy uchel yn fy marn i ac mae’n wrthgymhelliad sylweddol i weithio mwy ac ennill mwy. Rydym yn sôn o hyd yn y lle yma am waith fel ffordd allan o dlodi. Wel, dyma ni: gwrthgymhelliad pendant. Dwn i’m beth tasai’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn dweud pe tasen i’n cynnig trethi incwm uwch ar 63% yn hytrach na 40%. Mae’n wrthgymhelliad. Mae fel bod y ddadl gwrthgymhelliad yn gweithio pan yn sôn am bobl sy’n ennill llawer iawn o bres—peidio a threthi. Ond dydy o ddim yn gweithio efo pobl sydd ar ryw ychydig; mae eisiau gwneud yn siwr eu bod yn gweithio’n galetach felly peidiwch a rhoi gormod yn eu pocedi. Dylid cymryd camau buan a sylweddol i leihau y tapr a medrwn ni edrych—gobeithio—ar y Canghellor i ystyried hynny.
O ran y rhestr yma, bydd rhai o’r Aelodau anrhydeddus yn gwybod bod gofal plant yn faich enfawr ar rieni pan maen nhw’n mynd yn ôl i waith. Mae gen i a fy ngwraig brofiad uniongyrchol diweddar o hyn. Diolch byth nad ydym ni’n hawlio credyd cynhwysol, oherwydd o dan y system yna mae’n rhaid talu am ofal plant ac yna hawlio yn ôl. Hynny yw, mae’n rhaid i rywun ffeindio’r pres i dalu efallai cannoedd—dros £1,000 efallai—am ofal plant llawn am ddau o blant, ac yna hawlio’r arian yn ôl. Mae hynna yn sicr yn rhoi pobl mewn dyled unwaith eto. Felly, byddai talu costau gofal plant ymlaen yn hytrach nag yn ôl yn newid bach na fyddai’n costio llawer i’r Llywodraeth. Mater o dalu’n gynt ydy o, nid mater o dalu’n ychwanegol. Cymeradwyaf hynny fel newid buddiol.
Yn olaf ar y rhestr mae’r lwfans gwaith, sy’n caniatau i rhai pobl ennill rhywfaint—gallant ennill hyn a hyn—heb effeithio ar eu budd-dâl. Ers talwm, pan ddechreuais gymryd diddordeb yn y mater, roedd yn cael ei alw’n “therapeutic earnings”. Dyna ydy’r pwynt: caniatáu i rywun fentro i’r gwaith ac ennill rhywfaint heb effeithio ar y fudd-dâl. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r lwfans werth £397 y mis—bron £400—cyn i neb weld lleihau yn eu budd-dâl nhw. Ond cyn i’r newidadau ddod i fewn yn Ebrill 2016, roedd y ddarpariaeth yma ar gael nid yn unig i bobl anabl a rhieni, fel sy’n wir ar hyn o bryd, ond i bawb—roedd gan unrhywun y cymhelliant bach yna i fentro. Roedd rhai pobl yn medru ennill cymaint â £734 y mis, sydd bron dwyaith cymaint, ond nid yw hynny ar gael bellach. Byddai codi uchafswm y lwfans gwaith a’i estyn yn ôl i bob unigolyn, gan roi iddynt y cymhelliad i fynd at waith, yn gam positif iawn, yn arbenning pan fod un aelod o gwpwl yn gweithio. Efallai byddai hynny yn rhoi cymhelliad i’r ail aelod o’r cwpwl fynd i’r gwaith hefyd.
Cyfeiriais ar y cychwyn at synnwyr cyffredin o ran yr iaith Gymraeg. Ers hynny, rwyf wedi cyfeirio at dim ond cyfran fach o’r hyn fyddai Plaid Cymru am newid o ran y drefn budd-daliadau. Mae yna lawer iawn mwy hoffem wneud, ond mae hynny tu hwnt i sgôp y ddadl yma. Nid yn lleiaf, hoffem ddatganoli rhedeg y gyfundrefn a symud y cyfrifoldeb am nawdd cymdeithasol o ddydd i ddydd o’r lle yma i Gaerydd. Y rheswm dros hynny, wrth gwrs, yw ei fod yn ymarferol ac yn synnwyr cyffredin i roi datblygu’r economi, darparu addysg a hyfforddiant, gwasanaethu i bobl anabl, a phob math o bethau eraill, o dan yr un to â darparu incwm. Maent yn ffitio hefo’i gilydd yn dda iawn, ac mae hynny’n digwydd mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Gyfunol. Cam cymharol syml—ac un gweinyddol yn y bôn—byddai symud y cyfrifoldeb am redeg y system o ddydd i ddydd o fan hyn i Gaerdydd. Ond, hyd at rŵan o leia, mae’n ymddangos bod yr enghraifft bach yma o synnwyr cyffredin y tu hwnt i ddirnadaeth y Llywodraeth yma ar hyn o bryd.
(Translation) I thank the hon. Member for Swansea West for that point. I was not aware of that research. We are talking about people who are right at the edge and are close to absolute poverty, and about those who are working on low incomes or are seeking to enter the field of employment. Those figures are frankly terrifying.
Further research is emerging on this issue. I have had an interest in it for many years, mainly because many people in my constituency try to claim through the medium of Welsh, and the provision is not available. I will talk about that issue later. More research is emerging, including from Citizens Advice Flintshire in your constituency, Mr Hanson. I commend its report entitled “Our local experience of Universal Credit Full Service” to hon. Members in the room and anyone who is listening. It is a monthly report. This is from October, and I have one available from last November. It publishes interesting figures and information. Hon. Members will remember that universal credit was run as a pilot in Shotton, so Citizens Advice Flintshire has material for its reports that is not available elsewhere. Some of the figures and information are very illuminating; Some of the figures and information are very illuminating; I was looking at them as the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire was speaking. Three quarters of those who came for advice were women, which suggests quite a substantial gender gap.
For the information of the Secretary of State and his right hon. Friend the Chancellor, let me briefly run through the problems in Flintshire, some of which arose because of mistakes by the Department. Claiming was problematic, particularly for people with literacy problems, who had to wait on the phone endlessly; housing benefit was not paid on time or not paid at all; and the waiting period was too long—many people could not wait six weeks for the money. Most significantly, most people’s problems arose in their first application, when they tried to make a claim but failed or found difficulties.
No information is given about the right to claim through the medium of Welsh. The pilot scheme was in Shotton, where not so very many people speak Welsh, but I am sure that that problem will become more evident as the system is rolled out throughout Wales. When I went to Shotton to see the scheme in operation—this is a point for the Secretary of State and his Cabinet colleagues—I could see that the computer system had not been designed with bilingualism in mind. It seemed that it worked through the medium of English and that Welsh was bolted on, so there were severe problems with the software—there is no doubt about that. I fear that we will see further problems. It would be good to see the Government taking action and going further than the Chancellor did.
May I conclude by noting some changes that would be beneficial? I have a shopping list for the Secretary of State and the Chancellor. Since the introduction of universal credit, there have been a few small cuts to it here and there, but they are becoming larger. Some £3 billion less is being spent—a significant sum, when we consider that essentially it comes out of the pockets of those who are on low enough incomes to be claimants. That segment of the population is losing £3 billion. Additionally, a claimant who works hard to receive a further £1 of income will lose 63p of benefit as a result of the taper.
I first took an interest in the subject more than 30 years ago when the Social Security Act 1986 was passed. The taper was more than 100% at the time: as hon. Members will remember, people would lose £1.20 in benefit for every extra £1 they earned, because of the introduction of housing benefit. That taper has recently gone down from 65p to 63p in the £1, but in my view it is still much too high, because it is a significant disincentive to earn more. We often talk about work as a way out of poverty, but the taper is a definite disincentive. I do not know what the Secretary of State would say if I suggested taxing income at 63p rather than 40p in the £1; it seems that talking about disincentives works as an argument against taxing people who earn a great deal of money, but not as an argument against stopping people on lower incomes trying to earn more. I hope the Chancellor will reconsider the taper.
This is not the final point on my shopping list, but as some hon. Members will know, childcare is a large burden on parents when they return to work. My wife and I have direct recent experience of this. I am so very grateful that we do not claim universal credit, because under that system people have to pay for the childcare and then claim it back. People have to find perhaps over £1,000 for full-time childcare and then they can claim that money back. That will certainly put people into debt. Paying childcare costs forward, rather than claiming them back, would be a step forward. It would not cost much more to the Government; it is just a matter of paying more quickly rather than paying any additional sums. I would commend that as a beneficial change.
Finally on this shopping list is the work allowance, which allows some people to gain some money without having it affect their benefit. Some hon. Members will have interest in this, in terms of therapeutic earnings allowing someone to enter the workforce and then to earn a certain amount of money without it having an impact on the benefit. The allowance is £397—nearly £400—before anyone sees a reduction in their benefit, but before the changes in April 2016, this provision was available not only for disabled people and parents, as is the case currently, but everyone. Anyone could gain that incentive to step forward. Some people could earn as much as £734 a month, which is almost twice as much as now, but that is no longer available. Increasing the allowance would affect all individuals. It would incentivise them to get into work. It would be a very positive step, particularly when one half of a couple is working. It would give the second member of that couple an incentive to work as well.
I referred to common sense at the beginning, in terms of the Welsh language. Since then I have referred to only a small percentage of what Plaid Cymru would want to change in the benefits system. I could have said much more, but it is beyond the scope of this debate. However, not least is the devolution of funding the system: moving the responsibility for the day-to-day benefits system from here to Cardiff. That makes practical common sense, so that the economy can be developed, skills and training provided and services provided for disabled people. All those and other things can be done under the same roof as providing an income. All these things fit together very well. They are done in other parts of the United Kingdom. A simple, and basically an administrative, step would be to move the responsibility for running the system on a day-to-day basis from here to Cardiff. It is a small step, but it seems to be beyond this Government at present.
Several hon. Members rose—
The Chair
Order. I have six hon. Members who wish to speak and I will be calling the Front- Bench spokes- people from 3.30 pm, so we have 45 minutes for six speakers, which is less than 10 minutes per person. I call Chris Davies.
Chris Davies (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)
Diolch, Mr Hanson. I will keep within those 10 minutes. Given that the majority, if not all, of Government Members present have either started off or fully delivered their speeches in Welsh, I shall try to put my Labour colleagues at ease by speaking through the medium of English.
I am delighted to praise the autumn Budget and I am delighted to see its effect on my constituency. Brecon and Radnorshire has one of the lowest unemployment rates not just in Wales, but in the whole of Great Britain. That is because of the way in which we are delivering and looking after the economy in this country. It is a great boost. Many Opposition Members decry the low unemployment figures, but it is a massive boost for this country. We are very lucky indeed that we have so many people in work. The boost it gives to people in work and to families is immeasurable.
Much has been said already, so I will try to pick up a few points before I sit down. The tidal lagoon has been mentioned. As someone who represents a mid-Wales seat—I will come on to that—why I am I mentioning it? In the southern end of Brecon and Radnorshire in particular, jobs would be created, tourism would be helped and the economy would be boosted.
Many Opposition Members will remember that I led the Westminster Hall debate on Swansea’s city of culture bid. I was asked to do it, and as a Swansea boy I was delighted to support Swansea in any which way I could. However, I am not prepared to see my constituents having to pay electricity bills that are twice or even three times the amount they pay at the moment. I want the tidal lagoon to go ahead, but we must ensure that the figures stack up. The Secretary of State made that clear earlier, as we have heard in all the debates. However political we want to be in this place, we owe a duty to our constituents to ensure that the figures add up.
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
The Government seem to lack commitment to invest in renewable energies and look after the air quality of Gower, Swansea and south Wales. As has been said, we still have no electrification to Swansea, and in my constituency there is a proposal to put in a gas power station, with potentially £100 million coming from central Government. That will not help provide clean air to my constituents, yet the Government are shirking on the tidal lagoon. Something must be wrong there.
Chris Davies
“Shirking” is in interesting choice of word. It would have been easy to give in and say, “The figures cannot be met and the lagoon cannot go ahead.” That is what a weaker Government would have done, but this Conservative Government have tried every which way possible and are still doing so to ensure that it happens. They are trying hard, and if it is possible we will succeed.
David T. C. Davies
Does my hon. Friend agree that if Carwyn Jones is serious about putting £200 million into the project, the Welsh Affairs Committee offers him an ideal platform to tell us all about it?
Chris Davies
I concur. Is it £200 million, or is it £2 million—do we really know what Carwyn Jones is offering? Do not forget that that is taxpayers’ money, not Welsh Assembly or Westminster Government money. He could come clean and say that, because this is a bill to the taxpayer, not to the Welsh Assembly or the Westminster Government. We must get it right.
Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)
Has the hon. Gentleman managed to read the National Audit Office and Public Accounts Committee reports on his Government’s decision to build Hinkley Point? They say it will cost an extra £13 billion in public subsidy, which will be paid for by the poorest taxpayers. Is it not true that the cheapest electricity in Wales comes from the Dinorwig pumped-storage scheme in north Wales? There is huge potential for water power in Wales, which is being ignored by the Government in exchange for nuclear power stations, with one possibly in Wylfa to be built by a Japanese company because it cannot build them in Japan anymore.
Chris Davies
We have to be cautious about any audit report and investigate further. The hon. Gentleman will remember when Conservative Members of Parliament visited Newport to look at the possibility of a Newport lagoon. The Conservative Government have not only committed to trying to make it happen in Swansea but to make the whole lagoon structure work. We are trying to put the figures together. I will move on, because the tidal lagoon is a small part of what I have to say.
I am delighted that defence investment continues at 2% of GDP, and in Brecon and Radnorshire there is strong commitment to the Infantry Battle School, the training ground in Sennybridge, and Dering Lines. The military play an important part in Wales, and I am delighted that the Government continue to support them in every which way.
Let us not forget a small item we have missed in the Budget: £4.7 million has gone to refurbishing and modernising poppy factories. They may not be in Wales, but they supply poppies to Wales. For most people in this room and outside in Wales, that is the closest they get to remembering those who have lost their lives in battle. That is very important and an item that, sadly, has been overlooked, but it is in there to support our traditional elements.
We have heard much talk about agriculture. Over the past 12 months many farmers in my constituency have seen an increase in the price of lamb and beef on the hoof in the markets, as a result of the lower value of the pound. Many who voted for Brexit—the vast majority of them did so—are looking towards the future and the great expectations it holds. They are not frightened, but they are concerned—they do not know what is going to happen, but they are looking forward to the opportunities. I wish more politicians did that, instead of constantly criticising the Brexit process.
I am delighted that the Budget did not contain a tourism tax. Brecon and Radnorshire relies exceptionally heavily on tourism, as do the constituencies of many Members present, but the Labour and Liberal-run Welsh Government already seem to be talking about a tourism tax, which would decimate the tourism industry in this country. I hope that Opposition Members will tell their Welsh Assembly colleagues how devastating it would be and what a disastrous idea it is for Wales.
Chris Davies
I agree.
The mid-Wales growth deal has already been touched on by my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire. The one question that has never come out anyone’s mouth in the Houses of Parliament, or even I think in the Welsh Assembly, is that of mid-Wales. Where does it start and where does it end? Where does south Wales start and stop? Where does mid-Wales start and stop? Where does north Wales start and stop?
As many Members know, my constituency is considered to be a mid-Wales seat, but the southern tip of my boundary is only 15 miles from Swansea bay. We have to think long and hard about where the mid-Wales growth deal will come in and where it will stop. What about constituencies such as that of the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd? The southern part of her constituency could be part of a mid-Wales growth deal and would benefit from it. It is not just about Brecon, Radnorshire, Montgomeryshire and Ceredigion. The mid-Wales growth deal could be of great benefit to the majority of Wales, because the majority of Wales now seems to be mid-Wales.
I am delighted that the Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry), who has responsibility for the northern powerhouse and local growth, has already visited Powys County Council to get the ball rolling. Before going on to do great things at the Ministry of Defence, the former Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), also visited Powys County Council to ensure that it was starting to think about where to lead with the mid-Wales growth deal. The current Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales will visit shortly and lead the project forward, along with Lord Bourne from the House of Lords. The options are never-ending.
We have made it clear to local authorities that the mid-Wales growth deal will spread from east to west, across Offa’s Dyke, because a lot of people in my constituency and in Montgomeryshire naturally cross that invisible border every day, whether to work or shop. Clearly, we have to tie everything in. I am delighted that the Chancellor mentioned the mid-Wales growth deal in the Budget. This is the first time we are seeing some real joined-up thinking from a Government. I praise the Conservative Government for starting the deal. It is a start and not a finish, but I am sure hon. Members will be disappointed to hear that it is the finish of my speech. I look forward to the mid-Wales growth deal.
Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)
Gadewch i mi ddechrau trwy ddweud pa mor falch ydw i i gael y cyfle i siarad Cymraeg heddiw. Mae’n un o ieithoedd swyddogol y Deyrnas Unedig ac mae llawer o fy etholwyr yng Ngogledd Caerdydd yn ei siarad. Felly rwyf yn gobeithio y bydd fy nghyd-Aelodau a minnau yn cael siarad Cymraeg yn y brif Siambr hefyd cyn bo hir. Nawr byddaf yn troi at y Saesneg oherwydd dwi’n dal i ddysgu Cymraeg.
(Translation) Let me begin by saying how pleased I am to have the opportunity to speak Welsh here today. It is one of the official languages of the United Kingdom, and many of my constituents speak the language. I hope therefore that hon. Members and I will have an opportunity to speak Welsh in the main Chamber before too long. I will now turn to English, because I am still learning Welsh.
I am sure that my colleagues and the Secretary of State will join me in congratulating Jack Sargeant on an absolutely excellent win in the by-election in Alyn and Deeside yesterday, increasing Labour’s majority after a brilliant campaign. He now joins our Welsh Labour colleagues in Cardiff Bay, representing his constituents and helping to deliver record levels of investment in our NHS, an extra £100 million in funding for schools, 20,000 more affordable homes and the best childcare offer for working parents in the United Kingdom.
That is in stark contrast to the Tories’ shameful approach to our nation, with the Secretary of State for Wales constantly undermining the National Assembly for Wales and the Welsh Government, and complaining that too much power has been “centralised” in Cardiff. It is obvious that that is an attempt to create divisions within Wales, to distract people from the fact that the Tories do not care about investment in Wales, consistently ignore recommendations from the Welsh Government and exclude Wales from Brexit negotiations.
The Secretary of State is just Westminster’s representative in Wales, not Wales’s representative in Westminster, and as a mouthpiece for the Tories in Westminster he continues to block policies that would allow Wales to create more jobs and lower energy costs, as well as undermining devolution at every opportunity. It is embarrassing how obvious he and his Government make their lack of respect for Wales as a devolved nation.
The Budgets presented by this UK Government have consistently punished Wales. The UK Government give in to the likes of the Democratic Unionist party to save their own jobs. And where was the Secretary of State for Wales when the DUP was given a billion pounds for Northern Ireland? Why did he not stand up for Wales? Why did he not demand more money? In fact, where is he now?
The Welsh budget has experienced year-on-year cuts as a result of the UK Government’s ongoing policy of austerity. By 2022, when we will have had more than 10 years of Conservative rule—hopefully not—UK GDP is forecast to be £41 billion, or around 3%, lower than previously forecast. On this Westminster Government’s watch, libraries, leisure centres and youth clubs are closing, because they have starved the Welsh Government and Welsh councils of money. Mental health services are being cut back, too. Since 2010, 25,000 local authority jobs in Wales have gone and the services that make our communities healthier and more liveable in are disappearing, because of lack of funding from Westminster. The austerity politics of this UK Government is killing our communities in Wales.
The Secretary of State for Wales tells us that all that must be the fault of the Welsh Government. However, the seven-year public sector pay cap of this Tory Government has reduced the wages of carers, school support staff, cleaners, highway maintenance staff and many more public sector workers by more than 20%. Since 2010, nurses have suffered a 14% pay cut in real terms and current estimates are that 3,000 nursing jobs in Wales are unfilled.
In my constituency of Cardiff North, where we have the highest number of public sector workers in Wales, I have spoken to nurses who have to resort to foodbanks, and to other public sector workers who are barely making ends meet. That is unacceptable, and we should not use Welsh Government funding to resolve an issue that should be put right at UK level. If Welsh Government funding is used, we would see millions of pounds being taken from frontline services and from the budget of NHS Wales, risking thousands of public sector jobs. It is absolutely essential that this UK Government provide the funding that Wales needs, and that they treat our public sector workers with fairness and equality.
Moving on, the effects of climate change and resource depletion mean that the old, tired ways of doing business are an insufficient response to the challenges we face today. Governments and businesses must come together to create new models of sustainable growth. That is happening in Wales, and it comes at a time when Welsh industries and businesses face the danger of a hard Tory Brexit. The best way to protect our nation is to retain full access to the European single market and a customs union.
In the same way that the availability of natural resources put Wales at the forefront of the first industrial revolution, driving the growth in what was then iron, coal, steel and manufacturing, our abundant natural resources can now drive the growth of a new and different economy, which will be rooted in the sustainable and intelligent use of those resources. That is in stark contrast to the shambolic direction of the Tories in England, who seem unable to give a steer on climate targets or long-term sustainable growth. The tidal lagoon has been discussed. It is shameful that the UK Government cannot come to a decision—Tory Ministers consistently undermine it, despite, as we have heard, investment from the Welsh Government.
In a competitive global marketplace, companies will invest where there are the best conditions to make long-term sustainable growth possible. The Welsh Government have recognised that and introduced a strong legislative framework that gives certainty beyond electoral cycles. In the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the Environment (Wales) Act 2016 the Welsh Labour Government have set out a far-reaching economic, environmental and social agenda. That strong ambition and drive can help Wales to become a world leader in green growth, providing a platform and location where companies that share those values can thrive. I am proud to have played a part in introducing the carrier bag charge seven years before it was introduced in England, as well as to have helped to develop a truly sustainable Wales.
It is clear that the next 20 years will see a period of massive technological change. Young peoples’ voices will be critical to that process as the generation who will be at the heart of driving change over the next 20 years. The challenge now is to drive green growth widely and quickly, as we face the risks and opportunities of the 21st century. Successful markets need a strong clear vision and an effective regulatory regime. The UK Tory Government have neither. If they have any real ambition to lead on green growth they must do likewise, and put in place long-term statutory goals to reflect what we want now and in the future. They need to improve the position of business and prioritise investing in high-quality sustainable infrastructure, such as the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon, which will make Wales a far more attractive place to do business.
At the moment the UK Government and the Secretary of State for Wales are an embarrassment. They cannot take a decision on the tidal lagoon; there are U-turns on rail electrification investment; and they have failed to invest in energy efficiency or renewable energy, which would provide the vital economic and environmental infrastructure needed to boost growth and support the environment. Diolch yn fawr.
Paul Flynn
Hoffwn ymddiheurio am fy absenoldeb y bore yma. Rwyf yn falch i fod yma. Roeddwn yn edrych ar hanes yr iaith Gymraeg yma a’r brwydrau dros y blynyddoedd. Rwy’n llongyfarch fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus yr Aelod dros Dde Clwyd. Dim ond dwy flynedd yn ôl, pan oedd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth yn Arweinydd y Tŷ, dywedodd na.
Roedd fy nghwestiwn cyntaf fel aelod o’r Mainc Flaen yn 1988 am siarad Cymraeg yma. Cyfrinach fy ngyrfa yn y Tŷ yw bod pawb yn cytuno gyda phob gair rwy’n dweud 30 mlynedd ar ôl i mi ddweud e. Dyna sut mae pethau’n gweithio yn y Tŷ Cyffredin—rhaid aros am byth i bobl cytuno â chi.
Rwyf yn cytuno â phopeth sydd wedi’i ddweud am forlyn llanw Abertawe. Mae’n nonsens i’r Llywodraeth wrthod gweld posibiliadau ffynhonell pŵer sydd yn rhydd inni ac sydd yn golchi arfordir Cymru ddwywaith y dydd; rydym yn gwybod pryd fydd hyn yn digwydd—yn wahanol i rai pwerau adnewyddadwy eraill. Mae’n lân, yn wyrdd a byddai’n rhoi ynni inni am genedlaethau.
I ddychwelyd at y Gymraeg, a’r peth pwysig sydd yn digwydd heddiw, rwy’n arbennig o falch ein bod ni heddiw yn rhoi urddas i’r Gymraeg ac yn dangos i’n plant fod gan yr iaith statws. Dylem fod yn falch o’r iaith. Roedd y Gymraeg yn iaith lenyddol, gyda rhyddiaith a barddoniaeth cyfoethog iawn, cyn genedigaeth yr iaith Saesneg. Dwy fil o flynyddoedd yn ôl, yng Nghaerleon yn fy etholaeth, roedd yn bosib gwrando ar blant yn siarad dwy iaith. Intra muros—oddi fewn i’r waliau—roedd y plant yn siarad Lladin, ond ultra muros—tu allan i’r waliau—roeddynt yn siarad Cymraeg. Pa iaith sydd wedi ffynnu? ’Dwi ddim yn clywed llawer o Ladin yn cael ei siarad gan bobl a phlant Casnewydd. Dylem ymfalchïo yn beth sy’n digwydd yma: tipyn bach o ateb i’r sarhad ar yr iaith Gymraeg dros y blynyddoedd.
Does dim llawer o amser gen i, felly gad inni dalu teyrnged i’r iaith drwy gofio geiriau’r bardd am ei pharhad:
“Aros mae’r mynyddau mawr,
Rhuo trostynt mae y gwynt;
Clywir eto gyda’r wawr
Gân bugeiliaid megis cynt.
Wedi oes dymhestlog hir
Alun Mabon mwy nid yw,
Ond mae’r heniaith yn y tir
A’r alawon hen yn fyw.”
(Translation) I apologise for being absent this morning, but I am pleased to be here. I was looking at the history of the Welsh language in this place and the battles that have taken place over the years. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South on this occasion; but just two years ago, when the Secretary of State for Transport was Leader of the House, he said no, we could not do it.
The first question I asked in 1988, when I was a Front-Bencher, was on using the Welsh language in this place. The secret of my career in the House is that everyone agrees with every word I say 30 years after I have said it. That is how things work in the Commons; you have to wait a very long time before people come round to agreeing with you.
I agree with everything that has been said on the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. It is a nonsense for the Government not to see the possibilities that exist there, with that renewable source of energy that is freely available to us. It washes over our shores in Wales twice a day, and we know with certainty when it will come, which is not the case with some other renewable sources. It is clean energy, green energy, and it will provide us with power for generations.
If I return to the Welsh language and the important events of today, I am particularly proud that this is giving dignity to the Welsh language, and showing our children that the language has status. We should be proud of the language. The Welsh language was a literary language with a rich history of poetry and prose before the English language was spoken. Some 2,000 years ago, in Caerleon in my constituency, it was possible to hear children speaking two languages. Intra muros, within the walls, they spoke Latin; extra muros, beyond the walls, they spoke Welsh. Which language has prospered since those days? I do not hear a huge amount of Latin spoken by the people of Newport at the moment.
We should take pride in the Welsh language and in what is happening here, because it goes some way to righting the injustices done to the Welsh language over many years. Although I do not have much time, I urge hon. Members to remember the words of the poet about the survival of the language:
“The great mountains remain
The wind roars across them
The song of shepherds is heard again with the dawn, as before.
After a tempestuous age
Alun Mabon is no more
But the old language is in the land
And the old tunes live.”
Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)
Diolch yn fawr, Mr Hanson. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.
The recent Budget did very little for any part of the UK, but it did absolutely nothing for Wales. I will focus on two specific issues that could and should have benefited from this year’s Budget. I will talk specifically about the 1950s women’s pension scandal and a campaign very personal to me, the children’s funeral campaign.
By now, many on these Benches know what I am going to say regarding the unfair and unjust treatment of 1950s women. Without the time to prepare and make the necessary alternative arrangements, many women born in the 1950s are left in financial despair. That is nothing new to the Government. We have been here before and, sadly, no doubt we will be here again. It is important to reiterate that a pension is not a benefit; it is an entitlement that those women have paid into. Many 1950s women—today I am specifically talking about Welsh 1950s women—are currently in work not because they want to be, but because they have to be. Almost 200,000 women in Wales are or will be dramatically affected by the changes to the state pension and more than 3,000 in my own constituency have been unfairly treated by these changes. Many of these women are desperate. They call my office every day and tell me they have had to sell their furniture and other belongings, and are relying on family, friends and, for some, even food banks just to exist.
The ability to work and the availability of jobs are not options for all women born in the 1950s who find themselves in this position. For some of these women, their jobs are physically demanding, and because of their health they can no longer do things they were able to do when they were younger. Therefore, many of these Welsh women are having to rely on the benefits system. Case-load data for unemployment benefits, such as jobseeker’s allowance and universal credit, have significantly increased with the number of women over 60 who are accessing such benefits.
Many Welsh local authorities are stepping up to the plate and calling on the Government to make appropriate provision for these women. We know that local authorities such as Caerphilly, Neath, Port Talbot, Rhondda, Wrexham and my own in Swansea have all pledged support for a fair transitional payment for these women, and many more local authorities are working towards replicating that pledge.
We must be a voice for 1950s women and we must not give up, because, to this Government’s dismay, the problem is not going away. I am proud to say that the Welsh Government give free bus passes to every individual aged 60 or over. That puts Welsh 1950s women at an advantage, in as much as they are able to travel freely. That is especially important if they are expected to travel to benefits offices or work-trial placements as a requirement of the unemployment benefit that they have to claim to survive. As this campaign goes on, so the Government’s shame grows. Every debate that this Government hear is a missed opportunity to put this issue right. It is time the Government started listening to what these women say.
Now I turn to a very, very personal campaign: the children’s funeral fund. Many will have heard me talk about this in the Chamber on a number of occasions, but it is so important to me that I need to talk about it again. I thank all those Members, some of whom are in this room, who, on a cross-party basis, signed a letter that I recently sent to the Prime Minister. For 14 months I have been asking the Government to show compassion, to ease the pressure on bereaved parents and to introduce a UK-wide children’s funeral fund. For 14 months I have been stalled. I have had my hopes raised, only to be overlooked on Budget day, not once but twice.
Thankfully, last year, the Welsh Labour Government listened. They realised that for a relatively modest amount of money, they could make a considerable difference to bereaved parents in their hour of need. They established a children’s funeral fund, meaning that across Wales, thanks to the additional support from many national and independent undertakers, parents can bury their children without the added worry of how they will afford it.
Sadly, every year about 10,000 parents are left devastated by the death of their child. I know from personal experience that the grief is indescribable. The idea of putting a price on the funeral of your loved child is something that, undoubtedly, no one would ever want to consider, until they are forced to and face that bill.
Councils around the UK have made concessions and have also looked at scrapping the fees. As a result of my campaign, which I am very proud of, I am pleased to say that many have now scrapped their fees. For some councils, reduced budgets mean that it is just not an option. In the most extreme cases, the up-front costs of a funeral can be as high as £4,000. Even if every one of the 5,000 children who tragically die every year lived in an area that charged £4,000, the fund would still need to be only £10 million annually. We know that sum is a rarity. Most local authorities charge less than £1,000, so the amount that I am asking for is so far below £10 million that it is literally small change: it is not a big sum of money for the Treasury.
This campaign is supported across the House. I have met and I continue to meet Ministers to explain why this fund is so crucial to families, but nobody listens to me. Ministers need to follow Wales’s example. I have seen at first hand the difference it makes.
Last summer, I visited a Co-op funeral director when a young couple came in who had just had stillborn twins. The funeral director did not charge them for the funeral. When I could tell them that the Welsh Government were not going to charge them either, their relief was palpable. They had lost their children and they could not lose anything else.
It is so important that the Government listen to what I am saying and that they follow the lead of the Welsh Government and make this happen. I cannot talk any more. Please, listen.
Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)
Diolch yn fawr, Mr Hanson. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East for the passionate and compassionate way in which she has organised her campaign. I hope that the Government will take the time to listen to her campaign. It is a pleasure to speak in this historic Welsh Grand Committee and it is sad that it is only the second to be held in the two and a half years since I was elected to this place.
The Prime Minister and her UK Tory Government have slashed funding to Wales by more than £l billion per annum, and have imposed a public sector pay cap that impacts on Welsh workers and those across the UK in our most vital public services. We have heard time and again that the Government have refused to invest in vital Welsh infrastructure projects such as the Swansea bay tidal lagoon and rail electrification. Unfortunately, the Chancellor did not use the opportunity of his autumn Budget to address those shortcomings and to invest in Welsh infrastructure, to end the Tories’ failed austerity agenda or to lift the public sector pay cap. This Budget really felt like missed opportunities for Wales. It is clear that this Tory Government have proven time and again that they have little or no respect for Wales.
I would like to concentrate briefly on three areas, the first of which is the public sector pay cap. As the shadow Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Neath, touched on this morning, although the UK Government have made pay offers in excess of 1% for some sectors, the pay cap effectively remains in place for the vast majority of public sector workers. It is important that the Government do not cherry-pick pay rises for some public sector workers in what could be seen as an attempt to divide. We need to see an end to the public sector pay cap, with a fully funded pay rise for all those working in our public services.
Local authorities have tried to help to ease the situation. The two local authorities serving my constituency, Merthyr Tydfil County Borough Council and Caerphilly County Borough Council, decided during the previous council term to become living wage employers, thus helping to mitigate the pay cap. Across Wales, the Welsh Government have indicated their support for our public sector workers and have repeatedly called on the UK Government to end the cap on public sector pay and to give workers across the UK a much-deserved, properly funded pay rise. The Welsh Government have stated:
“The UK Government must do the right thing and lift the pay cap right across the UK public sector as part of a wider strategy to end their damaging policy of austerity.”
There are suggestions that the Welsh Government could take more action, but if they did lift the public sector pay cap unilaterally, every 1% above it would take £110 million from frontline services. Clearly, that would threaten thousands of public sector jobs in Wales and is not a practical or sensible way forward. With huge cuts to the Welsh budget and local government funding in recent years, the Welsh Government are clearly unable to take further action without funding from the UK Government. It is therefore incumbent on the UK Government to take action, do the right thing and remove the pay cap across the UK. The Welsh Government have already committed to use any funding consequentials they receive from the UK Government as a result of public sector pay rises more generally to raise the pay cap for public sector workers in Wales.
Secondly, I highlight the impact of the Tory Budget and the austerity agenda on keeping communities safe in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, across Wales and across the UK. The evidence is that the Tory Government are failing to keep our communities safe. That is apparent from new figures, which reveal that crime in the South Wales police and Gwent police force areas is increasing. The new crime figures show the highest annual rise in police-recorded crime since comparable records began in 2002.
Two thirds of my constituency is covered by South Wales police and the remaining third by Gwent police. In the South Wales police area, violent crime rose by 15%, sexual offences by 42% and total recorded crime by 11%. In the Gwent police area, violent crime rose by 20%, sexual offences by 31% and total recorded crime by 14%. At the same time, we know that the Tory cuts have sent police officer numbers nationwide to their lowest level in three decades. Since 2010, South Wales police have lost 257 officers, while Gwent police have lost 283. It is shameful that the public are now being forced to pay the price for the risk that the Tories took with community safety by slashing 21,000 police officers across England and Wales.
I and many other Members have built close relationships with our local forces—in my case, South Wales police and Gwent police—and have raised police cuts numerous times in parliamentary debates. I have had the privilege to spend a number of shifts with officers in both Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, seeing at first hand the officers’ dedication and the excellent work they are doing to keep our communities safe, despite their diminishing resources. Our police officers are working extremely hard in very difficult circumstances. However, the Government must realise that cuts have consequences, and the latest figures certainly reveal that the Tories are failing in their duty to protect the public.
Finally, I raise the issue of jobs and public procurement. In the Budget and the Brexit negotiations, the Government constantly claim that they are working hard to protect jobs and the economy. However, in recent months, there has been much speculation about Ministry of Defence contracts for the new mechanised infantry vehicles—MIVs—being awarded to German firms on a single-source-contract basis. That is deeply concerning to me as the representative of Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, where we have General Dynamics starting to assemble the new generation of armoured vehicles. General Dynamics has a long and proud history in south Wales, based for many years in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn. The additional base in Merthyr Tydfil demonstrates General Dynamics’ commitment to the area and to Wales.
I believe that General Dynamics is well placed to compete for those contracts, and should at the very least have the opportunity to compete in an open and transparent tender process. I hope that the Secretary of State will today confirm that the Wales Office is doing all it can to ensure that the MOD will give Welsh firms, including General Dynamics, the opportunity to bid for that work, to support and sustain hundreds of Welsh jobs. I hope he will have had the opportunity to have a discussion with his colleague, the hon. Member for Aberconwy, who was the previous Wales Minister before he went to his new role as the Minister with responsibility for defence procurement.
Finally, there are many other areas where the Government need to take stock and listen. Their austerity agenda is failing—it is failing Wales and it is failing the UK. If the Government are unwilling or unable to do what is necessary to improve the lives of our constituents, they need to move aside and make way for a Government who will.
Geraint Davies
Thank you, Mr Hanson. I will be brief, so I will speak in English. I say in passing that my mam-gu—my grandmother—had to wear the “Welsh Not”, which was introduced after the Blue Books. Children were required to pass on a “Welsh Not” to a child who spoke Welsh. They were beaten at the end of the day, and she was beaten at the end of every day because she was very religious and did not want to pass on the “Welsh Not”.
I thought I would also mention, on the centenary of women’s suffrage, an Emily—not Emily Davison or Emmeline Pankhurst, but Emily Phipps. She was one of the 17 women who stood 100 years ago, and she was in fact from the Swansea area. She hid in a cave in the Gower to avoid the census, as a protest.
David T. C. Davies
I just wanted to make the point that Blue Books were dreamt up by a radical who was a forerunner to a Labour party MP.
Geraint Davies
I certainly regret taking that intervention. On the Budget, the mammoth in the room is obviously Brexit. This Budget should have been preparing Wales for Brexit. Some 70% of our trade goes to the EU, and 25,000 jobs in Swansea bay depend on those exports. We wanted to see investment in infrastructure and skills to boost productivity to our most important market, but instead there has been a failure in rail investment, including the electrification of Swansea. There was no commitment on the Swansea metro that we asked for, either. I mentioned earlier that despite having 6% of the rail network, Wales gets only 1% to 2% of the overall investment.
People have mentioned the lagoon. At a time when 80% of fossil fuels cannot be exploited, if we are to avoid irreversible climate change it is plainly stupid not to invest at the start of a technology that could drive a future global export market. It is strange that the cost per unit of energy at Hinkley Point far exceeds the projected cost for the lagoon. The reason, of course, is Brexit; the Prime Minister needs to go out to China on bended knee, ignoring human rights and everything else, plead for a trade deal, and we are suffering the consequences.
On skills, the primary skills delivery system is the Welsh Assembly Government, but they have undergone cuts of some 5% in the last year alone—£900 million in cuts. That is delivering cuts on the doorstep of local schools, and Swansea is certainly suffering as a result of that.
I welcome the news on tolls. That tax on Welsh trade and industry has been going on for far too long. The fuel freeze should have been more sophisticated, to push us in a more sustainable direction for transport in terms of our air quality problems; there are 40,000 diesel deaths a year in Britain.
People have not talked about quantitative easing. Basically, quantitative easing lifts asset values so the rich get richer and the poor stay poor or get poorer. The value of property in Camden is now worth more than the value of all property in the whole of Wales.
On austerity, I mentioned earlier that a study done by University College London and the University of Cambridge attributed 40,000 deaths to austerity between 2010 and 2014, and 152,000 more are expected between 2015 and 2020. Until 2010, the death rate was falling by 0.7% a year; it is now rising by 0.8%. The International Monetary Fund has shown that greater inequality generates less growth. What we are doing in Britain is making the poor poorer to pay for the bankers’ greed. In so doing, we are stifling growth. All that pay freezes, cuts to benefits and universal credit do is prevent people who would spend every penny they have to reflate the economy from doing so. They are becoming ill, and becoming liabilities to our social and health services. We are in a crisis. We must invest in a stronger, fairer future for Wales and Britain. That means investing in our skills, productivity and infrastructure, especially in Wales, which is the poorest part of western Europe, particularly the valleys and west Wales.
Finally, I will mention in passing some of the issues with universal credit. Although the Labour party has said that we should pause and look again, the reality is that the universal credit system pulls together through complicated computer systems—the Inland Revenue system, the local authority system and the jobcentre system—into an integrated system that is doomed to failure, as a way of delaying and reducing overall benefit costs and cutting corners, in the hope that the poorest, who are often the most vulnerable, can cope with their own meagre allowance and pay the rent themselves rather than being tempted to spend it on other things, even though they face delays and loans. This is a mean Government causing terrible damage to Wales, particularly its poorer communities. We need to think again and invest in the future and in productivity. We need a fairer, better Wales.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
Hoffwn gychwyn trwy ddathlu’r cyfle heddiw i dorri tir newydd a defnyddio’r Gymraeg fel iaith gyfartal yn un o Bwyllgorau agored Tŷ’r Cyffredin. Rwyf yn cymryd y cyfle hefyd i nodi blaengaredd yr hen Gyngor Dosbarth Dwyfor, a benderfynodd ym 1974 mai’r Gymraeg fyddai brif iaith weinyddol yr awdurdod. Ers 1996, y Gymraeg sydd hefyd wedi bod yn brif iaith weinyddol Cyngor Gwynedd, ac yn ei siambr mae’n arfer i siaradwyr Cymraeg ddefnyddio’r iaith bob amser pan yn annerch yn gyhoeddus, wrth areithio, wrth ateb cwestiynau ac wrth ymyrryd. Mae’r rheswm am hyn yn syml: er mwyn diogelu defnydd y Gymraeg yn erbyn y norm cyndeithasol o droi i’r Saesneg. Pan fydd siaradwr Cymraeg yn troi i’r Saesneg mewn amgylchedd dwyieithog, yn ddigon buan rydym yn profi bod y Gymraeg ddim yn cael ei defnyddio o gwbl. Nid mater o ddiffyg cwrteisi i bobl di-Gymraeg ydy hyn, eithr mater o gynnal lle diogel i’r iaith mewn bywyd cyhoeddus.
Hoffwn hefyd estyn fy niolch a’m cefnogaeth i bob Aelod Seneddol—o’n i’n mynd i drial eu henwi nhw ond mae yna ormod i mi ddweud—a phob aelod o staff seneddol sy’n mynd ati i ddysgu Cymraeg. Daliwch ati, gwnewch gamgymeriadau, peidiwch â gwrando ar y bobl hynny—ac ma’ ’na ormod ohonyn nhw—sy’n uchafu cywirdeb dros bopeth. A mentrwch i siarad yn hytrach nag aros yn ddistaw. Dim ond trwy ddefnyddio iaith y mae hi’n byw.
Mae pawb sydd wedi defnyddio’r Gymraeg, yn ogystal â phawb sydd wedi defnyddio’r offer gwrando ac, wrth gwrs, y cyfieithwyr yn y cefn yn arloeswyr un ac oll, gyda’n gilydd. Gan ein bod yn sôn bod y sefydliad hwn yn gwneud y defnydd gorau o dechnoleg, mae hyn y gyfle, pan fyddwn yn cael ein decantio, i gynllunio rwan i wireddu caniatáu defnydd o ieithoedd heblaw Saesneg a Ffrangeg Normanaidd i’r dyfodol. Mae yna gyfle i wneud hyn pan fyddwn ni’n mynd o ’ma.
Wrth gyfeirio yn gyntaf oll at yr hyn ddywedodd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, nid yn annisgwyl yr oedd yn canmol rhinweddau Cyllideb yr hydref, yn unol â ac sy’n ddisgwyliedig o’i swydd. Roedd yn ateb yn ôl y disgwyl i gwestiynau parthed diffyg trydaneiddio rhwng Caerdydd ac Abertawe a rheilffordd y Gogledd, a diffyg penderfyniad parthed morlyn Abertawe a’r morlynoedd potensial eraill. Cyfeiriodd at gynnydd Barnett—the Barnett uplift—ond nodwn fod y rhan fwyaf ar ffyrdd benthyciadau. Siaradodd, fel eraill o’i blaid, am gydweithio trawsffiniol. Is-neges sydd i hyn, sef sut y gall Gymru helpu Lloegr.
Nid ein gorllewin ni—gorllewin Cymru—fydd prif fuddiolwr ei bwerdai gorllewinol ond gorllewin Lloegr, gyda briwsion yn unig i orllewin Cymru, dwi’n ofni. Dilynwch yr arian. Yn dilyn degawd o deyrnasu Torïaidd yn San Steffan, mae Cymru yn parhau i fod yn un o wledydd tlotaf Ewrop. Mae cyflogau wythnosol, ar gyfartaledd, yn £393 yng Nghymru o’i gymharu â £434 yn Lloegr. Mae cynhyrchedd Cymru yn 80% o gynhyrchedd y Deyrnas Gyfunol, tra bod Llundain yn nes at 150%. Mater o gywilydd o hyd yw hwsmonaeth ei Lywodraeth dros economi Cymru.
Rwyf yn troi rwan at yr hyn ddywedodd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol cysgodol, yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Gastell-Nedd. Soniodd am effaith Cyllideb yr hydref ar Lywodraeth Llafur yng Nghymru, gan amddiffyn methiant i wireddu addewid polisi maniffesto i godi cap cyflogau’r sector gyhoeddus—rhywbeth sydd yn rhydd i Lafur wneud yfory yng Nghymru, pe dymunent. Roedd fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus, yr Aelod dros Ddwyrain Caerfyrddin a Dinefwr yn siarad yn rymus am ragolygon economi Cymru, a’r cymysgiad tocsig o fuddsoddi mympwyol mewn is-adeiledd a cham-flaenoriaethu economi ac is-adeiledd rhanbarth de ddwyrain Lloegr—a goblygiadau hynny i Gymru. Roedd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Fynwy a Chadeirydd y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig yn sôn yn briodol am waith y Pwyllgor ac hefyd am ei agweddau angerddol tuag at Brexit. Siaradodd yr Aelodau anrhydeddus dros Orllewin Caerdydd a thros Sir Drefaldwyn am ddarlledu yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn bwysig, o wybod am yr ansicrwydd sy’n parhau dros ariannu S4C, a’r gyllideb sydd yn ein gwynebu mewn ychydig dros fis.
Soniodd yr Aelod gwir anrhydeddus dros Orllewin Clwyd—daeth hyn yn dipyn bach o dôn gron gan Aelodau eraill ei blaid—am gydweithio trawsffiniol. Mae ’na rybudd fan hyn am anghyfartaledd. Mae Cymru’n derbyn mwy na’i siar o garcharorion o Loegr yn y cawr-garchar yn Wrecsam. Mae’r nifer o garcharorion o Loegr sydd yn Nghymru wedi codi 76% ers mis Mawrth y llynedd.
Torrwyd araith yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Dde Clwyd yn ei hanner gyda’r rhaniad yn ein dadl heddiw. Siaradodd yn deimladwy am ddefnyddio’r Gymraeg ac effaith yr agenda llymder. Wrth gwrs, agenda llymder gyda’i wreiddiau yma yn San Steffan, ond sydd hefyd yn cael ei arall-gyfeirio gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac effaith hynny ar wasanaethau lleol.
Roedd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Faldwyn yn siarad yn deimladwy am yr hanes o deuluoedd yn colli ac ennill y Gymraeg a goblygiadau statws iaith i benderfyniadau trosglwyddo iaith yn y teulu. Siaradodd fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus dros Arfon am oblygiadau newidiadau i fudd-daliadau i Gymru, gan gynnig awgrymiadau sy’n cynnwys datganoli, gweinyddu’r gyfundrefn nawdd cymdeithasol i Gymru a’r her o ddylunio systemau technologel-ddigidol sydd yn cynnig dewis iaith i’r defnyddiwr.
Roedd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed yn sôn am y niferoedd mewn gwaith yng Nghymru. Wnaeth hefyd gyfeirio at forlyn Abertawe, er mwyn nodi nad oes gan ei etholaeth yr un filltir o arfordir. Roedd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Ogledd Caerdydd yn sôn am sut mae’r Llywodraeth yn tanseilio datganoli a rhoi taw ar lais Cymr—croeso i fyd Plaid Cymru.
Roeddwn yn falch iawn clywed yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Orllewin Casnewydd yn dyfynnu geiriau’r bardd Ceiriog yn yr Ystafell Bwyllgor hon. Roedd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Ddwyrain Abertawe yn sôn am sefyllfa merched WASPI ac rwyf yn ei chymeradwyo a’i llongyfarch am ei gwaith diflino gyda’i hymgyrchoedd. Soniodd yr Aelodau anrhydeddus dros Ferthyr Tudful a thros Gorllewin Abertawe am y cyfleoedd sydd wedi eu colli yn y Gyllideb diweddar.
Er mai testun y drafodaeth heddiw yw’r Gyllideb, y blaidd wrth y drws, wrth gwrs, yw Brexit. Er gwaetha gwaharddiad achlysurol y Cadeirydd blaenorol—dwi’n siwr tase ni wedi bod yn sôn am Gaergybi bydde fe wedi bod yn wahanol—cyfeiriwyd at Brexit gan nifer o’r siaradwyr ac ymyrrwyr. Mi wn fod Uwch Bwyllgorau Cymreig yn bethau prin, ond hoffwn gymryd y cyfle i alw am Uwch Bwyllgor Cymreig ar amaeth yng Nghymru a Brexit. Emosiynau cymysg sydd gen i wrth wrando ar siaradwyr Llafur yn mynegi pryderon am effaith y cyflwr parhaol o ansicrwydd ar economi Cymru heddiw, ac am yr angen i barhau yn yr undeb tollau. Gwell iddyn nhw gyfeirio’u cri at eu plaid eu hunain.
Roedd cryn sôn am rinweddau bargeinion twf i’r de a’r gogledd ac i’r canolbarth, a galwodd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Orllewin Clwyd am hyrwyddo cydweithredu rhwng Cynghrair Mersi a’r Ddyfrdwy a gogledd Cymru. Dwi’n croesawu rôl arweinwyr cyngor ym margen twf gogledd Cymru ond yn annog y Llywodraeth i gymryd camau cadarnhaol i gynnal cydweithredu gyda’n cymdogion agosaf yn y gorllewin, sef Iwerddon a Gogledd Iwerddon. O lle dwi’n byw ym Mhen Llŷn, Dulyn yw’r brif ddinas agosaf—yn nes na Chaerdydd a llawer yn nes na Llundain.
Yn olaf, hoffwn bwyso ar yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i ddod â rhagor o wybodaeth i ni yng Nghymru am y gronfa ffyniant gyfrannol—neu “shared prosperity fund”. Os byddwn yn gadael y polisi amaethyddol cyffredin a’r gronfa strategol Ewropeaidd, cronfa gymdeithasol Ewrop, o ble ddaw y gynhaliaeth a fu? Mae’r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn gweithredu egwyddor anrhydeddus o leddfu effeithiau anghyfartaledd. Does dim y ffasiwn draddodiad yma gan Lywodraeth San Steffan. Gofynnwn am ragor o wybodaeth am y gronfa ffyniant gyfrannol. Sut bydd ffyniant a thlodi yn cael eu diffinio, ac a ydy’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn gallu gwarantu y bydd cyllidebau’r dyfydol yn gwneud yn siwr na fydd Cymru’n colli’r un ddimai goch dan law’r Ceidwadwyr?
(Translation) I want to start by celebrating the opportunity to break new ground today in using the Welsh language in a Committee of the House of Commons. I also take the opportunity to note the innovation of the old Dwyfor District Council that decided in 1974 that Welsh would be the main administrative language of the authority. Since 1996 Welsh has also been the main administrative language of Gwynedd Council, and in its chamber Welsh speakers tend to always use the Welsh language when speaking publicly, when making addresses, in responding to questions and in making interventions. The reason is simple: to safeguard the use of the Welsh language against the social norm of turning to English. When a Welsh speaker turns to English in a bilingual environment, all too soon the Welsh language is not used at all. It is not a matter of a lack of courtesy to non-Welsh speakers. It is a matter of maintaining a safe place for the language in public life.
I also want to take this opportunity to extend my thanks and support to all Members of Parliament. I wanted to name them, but there are far too many. I encourage all members of parliamentary staff who are learning Welsh to persevere, to make mistakes, and not to listen to the people—there are too many of them—who put linguistic correctness above all else. They should take the chance to speak rather than remain silent. Only through the use of the language will the language live. Everyone who has used the interpretation equipment knows our interpreters at the back of the room are innovators. As we discuss the fact that this institution is making the best use of technology, and given the decant, we should plan now to allow for the use of languages other than English and Norman French in future. There is a real opportunity to do so when we leave this place.
On the Secretary of State’s comments, he praised the Budget, as can be expected from one in his post. He responded to questions on the lack of electrification between Cardiff and Swansea and the north Wales main line, and on the absence of a decision on the Swansea bay tidal lagoon and other tidal lagoons. He referred to the Barnett uplift, but we note that most of that comes in the form of loans. Others from his party talked about cross-border working. The subliminal message in all this is how Wales can help England.
The western powerhouses will not be the west of Wales, but the west of England, with some crumbs from the table for the west of Wales. Let us follow the money. Following a decade of Tory rule in Westminster, Wales is still one of the poorest nations in Europe. Average weekly salaries in Wales are £393 compared with £434 in England. Productivity in Wales is 80% of the productivity of the UK, and London is closer to 150%. The Government’s management of the Welsh economy is a matter of shame.
The hon. Member for Neath mentioned the impact of the autumn Budget on the Welsh Government in failing to deliver a manifesto pledge to lift the cap on public pay. A Labour Government could do that tomorrow in Wales if they so wished. My hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr spoke powerfully about the economic forecast for Wales and the toxic mix of ad hoc infrastructure investments, as well as the prioritising of expenditure in the south-east of England and the implications of that for Wales. The hon. Member for Monmouth, the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee, spoke about the work of that Committee and about his passionate views on Brexit. The hon. Members for Cardiff West and for Montgomeryshire spoke about broadcasting in Wales. That is important given the uncertainty about the future of S4C, and decisions that we are expecting in just over a month.
The right hon. Member for Clwyd West mentioned the issue of cross-border working, which was repeated a number of times by members of his party. There is an issue of inequality for Wales. In the context of cross-border working, I would like to highlight the inequality that Wales takes more than its share of prisoners from England into the super prison in Wrexham, with the number of prisoners from England and Wales having risen by 76% since March last year.
The hon. Member for Clwyd South, whose speech was cut in half due to the break in our proceedings today, spoke very powerfully on the use of the Welsh language and on the austerity agenda. Of course, austerity in Wales has its roots here, but it is also being implemented by the Welsh Government, and that is having an impact on local authorities.
The hon. Member for Montgomeryshire spoke passionately about the stories of families who had lost and gained the Welsh language, and the implications of the language status in terms of decisions on language transfer within families. My hon. Friend the Member for Arfon talked about the implications of universal credit for Wales, making suggestions that include devolving the administration of welfare to Wales, and about the challenge of designing IT systems that provide a language choice for the service user.
The hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire talked about the numbers in work in Wales. He also referred to the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, noting that his constituency has not a single mile of coastline. The hon. Member for Cardiff North mentioned how the Government are undermining devolution and silencing the voice of Wales—welcome to Plaid Cymru’s world.
I was very pleased to hear the hon. Member for Newport West quote the words of the poet Ceiriog in the Committee Room. The hon. Member for Swansea East mentioned the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign, and I applaud and congratulate her for her tireless work on that. The hon. Members for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney and for Swansea West talked about the opportunities missed in the recent Budget.
Although the topic of today’s discussion is the Budget, the wolf at the door is of course Brexit. Despite the occasional prohibition from this morning’s Chair—if we had been talking about Holyhead I am sure it would have been different—Brexit was mentioned by a number of speakers. We know that Welsh Grand Committees are few and far between, but I would like to take this opportunity to call for a Welsh Grand Committee on agriculture in Wales and Brexit. I had mixed emotions listening to Labour Members talking about the impact of the ongoing uncertainties in the Welsh economy and of the need to remain in the customs union. They should refer their comments to their own party.
Mention was made of growth deals for north Wales, south Wales, and mid-Wales. The right hon. Member for Clwyd West talked about the promotion of co-operation between the Mersey Dee Alliance and north Wales. I welcome the role of councils in the north Wales deal, but I encourage the Government to take positive steps to maintain collaboration with our nearest neighbours in the west: Ireland and Northern Ireland. Where I live, in the Llŷn Peninsula, Dublin is the closest capital—closer than Cardiff and much closer than London.
Finally, I urge the Secretary of State to bring us further information on the shared prosperity fund. If we leave the common agricultural policy and the European structural fund, the European social fund, where will the maintenance and the support come from? The European Union implements an honourable principle of alleviating inequality. There is no such tradition here in the Westminster Government. I ask for further information about the fund. How will poverty be defined, and is the Secretary of State able to guarantee that future Budgets will ensure that Wales does not lose a single penny at the hands of the Conservatives?
Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)
I am going to take the advice of the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd and try the limited Welsh that I have learned in Welsh lessons here in Parliament over the past three months.
Mae’n bleser mawr i wasanaethu o dan eich cadeiryddiaeth heddiw, Mr Hanson. Mae’n ddiwrnod hanesyddol: y tro cyntaf i’r Gymraeg gael ei defnyddio yn y Welsh Grand. Llongyfarchiadau i bawb sydd wedi siarad yn Gymraeg heddiw—y rheiny sy’n siarad yn rhugl ac, yn arbennig, y rhai sy’n dysgu’r iaith! Rwyf yn talu teyrnged i Aelodau ar draws y Tŷ sydd wedi lobïo’n galed er mwyn siarad Cymraeg yma heddiw. Da iawn.
(Translation) It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Hanson. It is a historic day: the first time that the Welsh language has been used in the Welsh Grand. I congratulate everyone who has spoken in Welsh today—those who are fluent speakers and particularly those who are learning the language! I pay tribute to Members from across the House who have lobbied very hard for the right to speak Welsh here today. Well done.
There have been many varied and interesting speeches today. The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr gave a great macro-economic picture of the economy and stated that the UK economy needs to be tilted away from London towards Wales and the north. I concur with that. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West spoke powerfully about the legacy of Rhodri Morgan for Wales and the Welsh language, and the importance of this historic day when we are able to speak in Welsh for the first time in the Welsh Grand here in Parliament.
The right hon. Member for Clwyd West spoke about the need for a rejuvenated north Wales economy. He urged that the dithering over the tidal lagoon is ended and progress is made, which again I completely concur with. As peace breaks out, I would also fully support him on his attitude towards the all-party group on the Mersey-Dee alliance.
My hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South spoke passionately about the importance of the Welsh language. She spoke in English in the hope of attracting the attention of leftie, liberal, lentil-eating journalists who support diversity and all minority languages in the world, except Welsh.
My hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda raised the idea of apprenticeships for workers who will work on the refurbishment of the House of Commons, with apprentices drawn from around the UK. That is an excellent idea and we should expand on it to make sure that produce from around the United Kingdom is used when this House is rebuilt and refurbished. I put in a bid for Welsh slate for the roof.
The hon. Member for Montgomeryshire mentioned the historic decline in the Welsh language and the growth deal. The hon. Member for Arfon mentioned universal credit and the impact on the most vulnerable in society. The hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire said that everything is hunky-dory in Brecon and Radnorshire. He took a Lib Dem seat at the election in 2015, and like a Lib Dem, he was facing both ways on the tidal lagoon, so da iawn.
My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North rightly made reference to Jack Sargeant’s election victory and contrasted the Welsh Government’s investment in Wales with the Tory Government cuts. My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East is one of the greatest campaigners in the House, on the WASPI issue and on payment for children’s funerals.
My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West, author of “Commons Knowledge”, made reference to the tidal lagoon, which he fully supports. My hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney mentioned the pay cap, community safety and MOD contracts. Finally, my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea West berated the Government for their lack of clarity on Brexit.
Many wise words have been spoken today, and I hope that the Secretary of State for Wales will listen. In the short time that I have, I would like to concentrate on one or two issues. The first is Brexit. Our relationship with the EU and EU countries is not viewed through the lens of what is good for the UK, but what is good for the Tory party. Businesses, universities, unions and the public are begging for leadership and direction from the Government; all they are getting is infighting and political poison. On Brexit, Cabinet members and Members on the Front Bench are like rats in a sack. That is not good enough. We are less than 13 months away from leaving the EU. We want clarity.
Wales has received £9 billion in investment from Europe, match funded by the UK. What will we get after we have left the EU? Those questions need to be answered. Airbus, Toyota and Ford are asking for a soft Brexit. Will they get it? Our Welsh universities want to know what level of co-operation or isolation there will be when we leave. When will they be told? Our Welsh farmers are asking what will happen to Welsh lamb next year, 90% of which is exported to Europe. When will they be told? Our Welsh workers want to know what will happen to their hard-won freedoms and rights, secured through Europe. When will they be told? You may have noticed a theme there, Mr Hanson. Those are right and responsible questions raised by individuals, organisations and sectors. Again, we are only 13 months away. Like us, they want answers, and I urge the Secretary of State to provide them.
The Secretary of State made much of the increase in funding to Wales in the Budget, but his figures were demolished by the shadow Secretary of State for Wales, who rightly pointed out that much of the increase was in the form of loans that have to be paid back. She pointed out that the smoke and mirrors of those announcements cannot obscure the fact that, by 2020, the Welsh budget will be £1.1 billion less than it was in 2010. Let me put that in a historical perspective. When I came to Parliament in 1997, the Welsh block grant was £6.5 billion. By 2010, when Labour left office, it was £15 billion—it had doubled. Over the 10-year period between 2010 and 2020, the Welsh block grant will have decreased by £1.1 billion.
Several speakers spoke about the missed opportunity in the Budget to end austerity. The Government have tried austerity for eight years—it is the only tool in their box—and it has not worked. All we have had is cuts, cuts and more cuts. Other economies have tried a mixture of prudent cuts and sensible, targeted investment. That worked in the 1930s in America under Roosevelt, who was elected four times. It worked under Obama, and it worked in France and Germany. We need to pump-prime our economy. We are eight years on, and our wages are lower than they were 10 years ago. What little growth that exists is channelled into the hands of the rich, who have seen massive increases to their salaries, benefits and bonuses. Targeted pump-priming in Wales could have included the electrification of the rail line to Swansea and Holyhead, and tidal lagoons in four areas around Wales. Those are lost opportunities.
The Secretary of State made much in his introduction of the £600 uplift in the national living wage, which was announced in the Budget. Let us put that in perspective, in terms of the cuts experienced by the vast majority of workers since 2010. It is plain to see that the cuts are aimed at the most vulnerable in our society: 80% have fallen on the backs of women. Is it any wonder that data I uncovered last week reveals that 20% of local authorities have witnessed a decrease in female life expectancy since 2010—this on the anniversary of women’s suffrage. Wages have been frozen in the public sector for years. Teachers are £5,000 worse off now than they were 10 years ago. The cruellest cuts have fallen on the poorest, the disabled, the unemployed and the dying, who have been hit with benefit freezes, the bedroom tax, botched universal credit and a public sector pay cap. It is not just about the cuts; many of those groups have been demonised by the Government. The Government have promoted zero-hours contracts, the gig economy and in-work poverty. Indeed, 66% of those in poverty are actually working. There was nothing for those groups in the Budget.
Those are the statistics. Let me give hon. Members the stories. Don Lane, a DPD courier—self-employed in the gig economy—was fined £150 for attending a medical examination for his diabetes. He later collapsed and died of the disease. That may not have happened in Wales, but every single one of us, regardless of our party, knows of cases like that in our constituencies.
In 2016, Darren Taylor of Connah’s Quay applied for personal independence payments after his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. The Department for Work and Pensions refused. In January 2017, he reapplied. Despite the fact that the pain his wife was going through left her largely confined to the house, the DWP said that she was not ill enough to qualify for an enhanced rate. The family appealed the decision, but before receiving a tribunal date Belinda Taylor died aged just 44, leaving four children. Three months after she died, the award was made to the family. That is the reality of the Budget that was passed by the Government. It hits the poorest in our communities. I ask the Minister to think again and to take the message back from all these good people on both sides of the Committee that austerity is not working.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Stuart Andrew)
Mae wedi bod yn bleser gwasanaethu o dan eich cadeiryddiaeth, Mr Hanson. Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i fy Nghyfaill gwir anrhydeddus, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru am ei ddatganiad agoriadol a’i gyfraniad allweddol, ac hefyd i’n Hysgrifenyddion Seneddol Preifat, fy Nghyfeillion anrhydeddus yr Aelodau dros Sir Drefaldwyn a dros Brycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed.
Rydw i newydd orffen fy mis cyntaf fel Is-Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ac rydw i’n croesawu’r cyfle i ddathlu’r garreg filltir hon trwy gloi trafodaeth ddiddorol yr Uwch Bwyllgor Cymreig. Hoffwn ddiolch i’r Aelodau anrhydeddus am gymryd rhan yn y drafodaeth hon. Mae’n amlwg i mi ein bod ni i gyd am gael y gorau i Gymru. Rydym ni i gyd am weld Cymru fwy llewyrchus ac, yn anad dim, rydym ni i gyd am weld Cymru sy’n addas ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Gan mai dyma’r tro cyntaf i fusnes seneddol gael ei gynnal yn Gymraeg, rydw i am barchu’r Uwch Bwyllgor Cymreig a thraddodi cymaint o fy araith â phosib yn Gymraeg. Fodd bynnag, gan fy mod i’n ymgyfarwyddo o'r newydd â’r iaith hyfryd hon, dydw i ddim yn teimlo’n ddigon hyderus i draddodi’r araith gyfan yn Gymraeg. Gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau anrhydeddus yn deall os byddai’n troi i ymateb yn Saesneg.
(Translation) It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson. I thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales for his opening statement and key contribution to this fascinating debate. I also thank our Parliamentary Private Secretaries, my hon. Friends the Members for Montgomeryshire and for Brecon and Radnorshire.
I have completed my first month as the Under-Secretary of State for Wales and I welcome the opportunity to celebrate that milestone by closing our interesting discussions in the Welsh Grand Committee. I thank hon. Members present for taking part. It is clear that we all want the best for Wales. We all want to see a more flourishing and prosperous Wales and, above all, a Wales that is fit for the future.
As this is the first time that parliamentary business has been undertaken through the medium of Welsh, I want to respect the Welsh Grand Committee by giving as much of my speech as possible in Welsh. However, as I am currently reacquainting myself with this wonderful language, I do not feel confident enough to deliver my whole speech in Welsh. I hope hon. Members will understand if I break off and respond in English.
I grew up in Anglesey, as hon. Members know, and I learned Welsh as a second language—my family do not speak Welsh. I am slightly concerned because—I must confess—I stood for the old Gwynedd County Council in the 1990s. I was not successful.
Stuart Andrew
The Conservative party.
I translated my leaflet into Welsh because I thought it was important to have it in both languages. I had it checked by Councillor Goronwy Parry, who was a Conservative councillor in Anglesey, and much to my surprise, he said that most of it was all right. At the last minute, however, I thought I would be clever and put a slogan on the front that said, “A local man for local needs”. Knowing that the word for need is “angen”, I thought I had my Welsh correct, but I put, “Dyn lleol am angau lleol”. Hon. Members will know that that means, “A local man for local death”. That is why I will stick to English for the rest of my speech, if I may.
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales touched on some remarkable points in his opening statement and I want to convey how significant they are for Wales. With my roots firmly in Anglesey, I welcome the north Wales growth deal and I am delighted that formal negotiations have begun. I look forward to working with local partners to ensure that we agree on a deal that is right for the whole of north Wales.
The Budget delivers for Wales through a range of commitments, such as the fair funding settlement for the Welsh Government, a city or growth deal to cover all parts of Wales, an increase in rail infrastructure investment, further work on sector deals and the development of cross-border opportunities.
We have shown that Wales is open for business. There has been a positive response to the planned abolition of the tolls, and I am looking forward to that building new links between the south of England and the south of Wales. The Budget not only helps to shape Wales but helps every individual by saving them money by abolishing tolls and freezing fuel duty and by providing them with extra funds by increasing the personal allowance and the national living wage.
References have been made to two people who I, too, want to comment on. When my Welsh was much better, I used to spar with Rhodri Morgan on Welsh-language politics shows. He was always a most courteous man, and very kind to a very young person. I will also offer my congratulations to Jack Sargeant on his election last night; I wish him well in the job that he is doing.
I want to touch on the economy. We have heard mention of the north Wales growth deal, and the tributes and compliments paid to Ken Skates. I am yet to meet him, but I plan to do so. I have written to him to say that I am keen to meet him to see how we can work together to progress the north Wales growth deal. It is important and I look forward to that constructive engagement and co-operation. I have already met the leaders of the north Wales growth deal, Councillor Aaron Shotton and Councillor Dyfrig Siencyn. We had a very constructive meeting and I look forward to working with them in the future.
I am acutely aware, and hon. Members have mentioned, that we must ensure that the growth deal is as beneficial to north-west Wales as it is to north-east Wales. As someone who grew up in Anglesey but then moved and lived in Wrexham, I can see the qualities of both those areas, and I look forward to working with them. Equally, we must get on with the mid-Wales growth deal. I look forward to working with hon. Members so that we can build on the successes of the Cardiff and Swansea deals and maximise opportunities presented by the toll changes.
We talk about the corridors of power in this Parliament, but I hope that north, mid and south Wales will become the true corridors of power for England and Wales. A big part of that will be improving connectivity, particularly broadband, and I am acutely aware of the need for us to spread that out further. It is good news that 95% of premises in Wales are connected, but we have to do more for rural areas in particular.
I want to talk about universal credit, which a number of Members have raised. It is important that we recognise that the benefits system was in need of some major changes. The hon. Member for Arfon talked about that very sensibly. We have to make sure that people do not get themselves trapped on benefits. I do not mean that in the sense of some political language that people may use. Genuinely, it cannot be right that somebody who works a minute over 16 hours is in danger of losing all their benefit. That is the idea behind this. In the Budget, we listened to the concerns people raised and we brought about changes to make it a better system. As far as I am concerned, as we roll this out we should continue to learn lessons from the people we work with, and we will continue to do so. It is important to recognise that unemployment has come down in Wales by 73,000 since 2010. We have brought in a national living wage, and the personal allowance is helping 61,000 Welsh workers out of tax altogether. We should celebrate that. Those figures relate to 2017-18 and compare favourably with just two years ago.
I now want to come to the points raised by the hon. Member for Swansea East about child burial fees. I spent most of my life before coming here working in the children’s hospice movement, and I am acutely aware of the really difficult time that parents go through when they lose a child. I have not been blessed with the fortune of being a father myself, but I have seen the real difficulties that families go through. While cross-Government work is looking at the support that can be offered to bereaved parents, by simplifying the payments and so on, on a personal level I would like to meet her to see what I can do going forward.
I am conscious that I have about a minute left. I will finish by saying that, yes, there has been talk about austerity and about the payments for Wales, but let us not forget why we are in this position in the first place. [Interruption.] I have 30 seconds—I had better shut up! I thank all hon. Members for their contributions. I look forward to having many more debates with them in the future, when I hope my Welsh will be much improved and I can speak even more.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the matter of the Autumn Budget as it relates to Wales.
Autumn Budget as it Relates to Wales (Morning sitting)
(6 years, 2 months ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Chair
Bore da pawb. Rwyf am siarad Saesneg i ddechrau. I am going to speak in English to explain the House rules and give some information about the translation equipment. It may help if I remind Members that this session will run until 11.25 am. We shall meet again at 2 pm, and the debate on the motion will continue until 4 o’clock. I have no power to impose a time limit on speeches, but I ask Members, and particularly the Front Benchers, to curtail their speeches if possible, so that everyone has an opportunity to speak.
Under the resolution of the House of 9 January, Committee members may speak in Welsh and English, but I ask that points of order are made in English, for the sake of the official record and for technical reasons. Everyone should have translation equipment. Channel 0 is for whatever is being said in English or Welsh, and channel 1 is for the translation. Please switch off the equipment if you are not using it to listen, because there will be a little feedback if everyone has it on. I am now going to do a test in Welsh.
Dwi am wneud prawf yn Gymraeg i wneud yn siwr bod yr offer yn gweithio yn iawn. Ydy popeth yn iawn? Da iawn. Diolch yn fawr iawn. Galwaf ar yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i symud y mesur.
(Translation) I am going to test the equipment to ensure that everything is working properly. Can everyone hear me? Excellent. Thank you. I call the Secretary of State to move the motion.
Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru/the Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
Diolch Mr Cadeirydd. Cynigaf,
Bod y Pwyllgor wedi ystyried Cyllideb yr hydref mewn perthynas â Chymru.
Mr Owen, diolch am y cyfle i agor y drafodaeth heddiw. Mae’n bleser gwasanaethu o dan eich cadeiryddiaeth unwaith eto. Rwy’n falch o fod yn siarad gyda chi i gyd heddiw yn yr iaith Gymraeg. Mae’r iaith yn bwysig i mi, yn bwysig i’r gymuned rwyf yn ei chynrychioli ac yn ganolog, yn amlwg, i hanes a diwylliant Cymru.
(Translation) I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the matter of the autumn Budget as it relates to Wales.
Thank you, Mr Owen, for allowing me to open the debate. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I am proud to speak to the Committee in the Welsh language, which is important to me and to the community that I represent and is integral to the history and culture of Wales.
Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)
Wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ildio?
(Translation) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Alun Cairns
Os gai wneud bach mwy o dro.
Rwy’n gwybod bod llawer o Aelodau ar y Pwyllgor heddiw wedi ymgyrchu ac wedi galw am y newid hwn ers blynyddoedd, ac hoffwn gydnabod bob ymdrech gan bob aelod. Mae heddiw yn ddiwrnod hanesyddol i’r Senedd ac i Gymru ac, yn uniongyrchol, hoffwn sôn am y Gweinidog dros Swyddfa’r Cabinet a Changhellor Dugiaeth Caerhirfryn, a wnaeth gefnogi’r alwad drawsbleidiol a ddaeth ar y pryd.
Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn dod at ein gilydd yma, yn fforwm yr Uwch Bwyllgor Cymreig, ac mae’n bleser agor y drafodaeth hon trwy drafod Cyllideb yr hydref mewn perthynas â Chymru. Hoffwn amlinellu’r gwaith mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i sicrhau ein bod yn mynd i’r afael â’r heriau economaidd mewn ffordd sy’n codi’r economi ym mhob rhan o’r Deyrnas Unedig, gan gynnwys Cymru. Dyna pam y bydd y mesurau yng Nghyllideb yr hydref—fel y cynlluniau i wella cysylltiadau rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, buddsoddi mewn bargeinion dinesig a thwf, a chyllid ychwanegol i Lywodraeth Cymru—yn rhoi rhagor o bŵer gwario i Gymru a fydd yn rhoi hwb i’r economi leol ac yn galluogi Cymru i ffynnu.
(Translation) Let me make a little progress.
Many Committee members have campaigned for this change for many years, and I pay tribute to every Member’s work. This is a historic day for Parliament and for Wales. My right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster backed the cross-party call for this change. It is essential that we come together in the forum of the Welsh Grand Committee, and it is a pleasure to open this debate on the matter of the autumn Budget as it relates to Wales.
I want to outline the work that the Government are doing to ensure that we meet economic challenges in a way that increases prosperity in all parts of the UK, including Wales. The measures in the autumn Budget, such as plans to improve Welsh rail links and to invest in city and growth deals, and of course the additional funding for the Welsh Government, will provide Wales with greater spending power, which will bolster the local economy and enable Wales to thrive.
Susan Elan Jones
Rwyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ac yn ddiolchgar hefyd ddaru’r Llywodraeth newid ei meddwl ynglŷn â defnydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn y Pwyllgor yma. A ydy’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn meddwl bod hynny, efallai, yn arwydd bod y Llywodraeth yn barod i newid ei meddwl, er enghraifft, ynglŷn â’n haelodaeth o’r undeb tollau? Mae hynny’n hynod o bwysig i ni.
(Translation) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way, and to the Government for changing their mind on the use of the Welsh language in the Committee. Does he believe that that is a sign that the Government are willing to change their mind, for example, on our membership of the customs union, which is very important to us?
Alun Cairns
Rwyf yn ddiolchgar am yr ymyrraeth gan y Foneddiges anrydeddus. Mae’r hen rheolau wedi bod yn eu lle dros ddegawdau ac roeddwn felly yn falch iawn bod y Llywodraeth yma wedi cefnogi’r newidiadau a ddaeth ar lefel drawsbleidiol.
Ni all y Llywodraeth weithredu ar ei phen ei hun i gyflawni’r newidiadau sydd eu hangen ar Gymru. Dyma pam rwyf am bwysleisio fy awydd i gydweithio’n agos gyda Llywodraeth Cymru er budd Cymru. Rwy’n annog Llywodraeth Cymru i ddefnyddio ei phŵerau ei hun a’r Cynulliad i gyflawni buddiannau economaidd tebyg i Gymru.
Rwyf yn edrych ymlaen at drafodaeth ddiddorol a bywiog heddiw yma yn y Pwyllgor.
(Translation) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention. The orders have been in place for decades, so I was pleased that this Government supported the changes that came about on the basis of cross-party support.
This Government cannot act alone to deliver the changes that Wales needs, so I reiterate my desire to work closely with the Welsh Government in the best interests of Wales. I urge the Welsh Government to use their powers and the Welsh Assembly’s powers to deliver similar economic benefits to Wales.
I look forward to an interesting and stimulating debate.
Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)
The Secretary of State talks about the Welsh Government using their functions to their economic benefit. One way that he could use his powers would be to secure the tidal lagoon at Swansea by working with the Welsh Government on the financial offer that they put to the Prime Minister. That will bring real economic prosperity across south Wales and beyond.
Alun Cairns
Rwyf yn falch bod y Bonheddwr anrhydeddus wedi gofyn y cwestiwn. Fel rwyf wedi dweud yn y gorffennol, byddem yn hapus i weld y cynllun yn mynd yn ei flaen, ond mae’n rhaid inni ddangos gwerth am arian. Ni fedrwn gefnogi’r cynllun heb brofi gwerth am arian. Mae fy swyddogion, yn ogystal â swyddogion yr Adran Busnes, Ynni a Strategaeth Ddiwydiannol—BEIS—a swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru, wedi cwrdd. Mae Pwyllgor Dethol Materion Cymreig wedi gofyn am dystiolaeth gan Brif Weinidog Cymru. Yn amlwg, wnawn ni ddal ati i gydweithio i geisio dangos gwerth am arian. Rhaid hefyd gofio mae’r Llywodraeth hon a roddodd ganiatâd cynllunio wedi’r etholiad yn 2015, sydd yn dangos ein bod ni’n awyddus i’r cynllun llwyddo, ond ni ddylem ei gefnogi heb brofi gwerth am arian, oherwydd ein trethdalwyr a’n cymunedau ni byddai’n cefnogi’r cynllun, gyda’r pergygl bod y gost yn llawer mwy iddyn nhw na beth sydd yn cael ei gyflawni mewn llefydd eraill.
(Translation) I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman raised that question because, as I said previously, I would be very happy to see that project go ahead. Obviously, however, we must test its value for money, because none of us would wish to support that funding without it being proved good value for money. I have considered this with officials from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and in the Welsh Government, and the Welsh Affairs Committee has asked to take evidence from the Welsh First Minister. We will continue to work together to test the value for money of the plan. We must also bear in mind that it was this Government who gave planning permission for the project after the 2015 election, which shows that we are eager to see it succeed. However, we do not believe we should support it if there is no value for money. Taxpayers and our communities will support this project, but not if it is not good value for money and the cost will be higher than what has been achieved in other countries.
Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that the Swansea tidal lagoon is supported not only in the Swansea area but right across Wales? It is an advanced technology that could be of enormous benefit to the British economy, and it would also be welcomed in north Wales where a large tidal lagoon has been proposed for the coast in my constituency and that of the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd. Will my right hon. Friend speak in very strong terms to his colleagues in BEIS about this matter?
Alun Cairns
Out of courtesy, I will respond to my right hon. Friend in the language in which he raised the issue. Of course we would like this project to happen and I recognise the enthusiasm for it, but I am sure that he would not want any project to go ahead that does not prove to be value for money. Many claims have been made about the technology and the export potential, and about the regeneration of the economy that the tidal lagoon would provide, but I am sure he would want the Government to scrutinise those claims appropriately and establish whether the project is genuinely value for money. We must not forget that our constituents will be asked to support it, and if they support this project over other projects that might be better value for money, there is a risk of higher energy costs.
Mr David Jones
I understand fully that the benefits or otherwise of the project must be scrutinised, but how long is that scrutiny likely to take?
Alun Cairns
My right hon. Friend will recognise that this is a dynamic environment and costs in the energy industry are changing at various stages. Indeed, there has been a significant change in energy costs since this project was first proposed.
Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)
My right hon. Friend will remember as acutely as I do the debates about the merits and demerits of the Cardiff bay proposals in the ’80s and early ’90s. I am sure we all accept the need to make an economic case and to ensure value for public money, but does he accept that the message that the tidal lagoon proposal sends about a commitment to renewable energy and to the industrial base of Wales is very strong? That must be taken into account when making the economic assessment of the proposition.
Alun Cairns
I absolutely accept my hon. Friend’s point. Ultimately, however, the project must prove to be value for money because otherwise taxpayers will risk paying more than they would for an alternative source of energy, in addition to pushing up consumer prices. Two years ago, we were considering the crisis in Tata Steel, which is adjacent to the proposed site for the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. One of Tata’s core concerns was the rising cost of energy. It is not in anyone’s interest for a project to go ahead that risks driving up energy costs. It is therefore only right that we scrutinise this project to establish whether it provides value for money, as is believed.
Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)
Hon. Members mentioned delay. There is a chance that the UK could become a world leader in this technology, and if we delay this project we will miss out. We missed out on wind power, but we have a chance with tidal. Four of the six potential sites for lagoons are in Wales, so Wales could become a world leader. The Secretary of State should see the vision and develop the vision.
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman is on the record as saying that it is worth paying over the odds for paying for a scheme of this type. If we are paying over the odds, at what level do we stop? What is he prepared to ask his constituents to pay? How much is he prepared to ask his constituents to add to their electricity prices to support such a scheme? I ask him to think long and hard about this. How much over the odds is he prepared to pay?
Chris Ruane
Is the Secretary of State aware that we paid over the odds for nuclear power in the 1950s and 1960s, and that in the long term the investment was paid back? Paying over the odds in the initial period will have a long-term payback. We will get energy from this project for the next 125 years, and we will be able to time that energy to the minute. I believe that it is worth investing in, even if it is over the odds in the short term.
The Chair
Order. May I say two things? First, if hon. Members are patient, they will get the opportunity to make lengthy speeches themselves. Secondly, if you are not using the translation system, can you switch it off, please, because there is feedback going through the system?
Alun Cairns
I am not sure that nuclear is the comparison I would make as a previous long-term decision, but that is an interesting contribution none the less.
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
Buasai’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn annog Prif Weinidog y Cynulliad i ddod o flaen y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig i esbonio’r cynnig a wnaeth i’r Llywodraeth? Ar hyn o bryd, dydy e ddim yn barod i ddod a dydw i ddim yn deall pam.
(Translation) Would the Secretary of State encourage the First Minister to appear before the Welsh Affairs Committee to explain the proposals he has made to the Government? At the moment, he is not willing to come, and I do not understand why.
Alun Cairns
Rwyf yn ddiolchgar i fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus am godi’r pwynt. Yn amlwg, dydw i ddim yn gwybod pam nad yw Prif Weinidog y Cynulliad yn fodlon rhoi tystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Dethol. Yn amlwg, byddai hynny’n cryfhau’r sylwadau sydd wedi eu gwneud a, hefyd, yn rhoi mwy o fanylion ynglŷn â’r gefnogaeth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn fodlon rhoi. Yn amlwg, rwyf yn awyddus i gydweithio’n agos gyda Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, fel yr ydym wedi gwneud gyda chymaint o wahanol gynlluniau dros yr amser rwyf wedi bod yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol a’r rhai sydd wedi bod o’m blaen.
(Translation) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that point. I do not know why the First Minister of the National Assembly is not willing to give evidence before the Select Committee. Obviously, that would strengthen the comments that have been made, and would give further clarity about the support that the Welsh Government are willing to give. I am eager to collaborate with the Welsh Government, as we have done on many schemes during the period that I have been Secretary of State.
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)
Rwy’n gallu rhannu rhai o’r pryderon ynglŷn â’r model contracts for difference. Mae’n ffordd ddrud iawn o ariannu prosiectau fel hyn ac mae’r pris, yn y pen draw, yn cwympo ar y defnyddwyr. Pam nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn edrych ar model o ariannu cyfalaf uniongyrchol? Yn y pen draw, mae pobl yn talu naill ai trwy brisiau ynni neu drwy trethi. Byddai’n llawer rhatach i bobl dalu trwy eu trethi na thrwy brisiau ynni.
(Translation) I share some of the concerns about the contracts for difference model. It is a very expensive way of funding such projects, and the ultimate price will fall on the consumer. Why are the Government not looking at a direct capital funding model? People pay either through energy prices or through their taxes, and it is far better that they pay through taxes rather than energy prices.
Alun Cairns
Yn amlwg, pa bynnag ffordd mae unrhyw brosiect neu gynllun fel hyn yn cael ei ariannu, mae’n rhaid bod trethdalwyr yn cefnogi’r peth. Dyna’r pwynt sydd yn cael ei wneud, felly mae’n rhaid ein bod yn profi gwerth arian unrhyw fath o gynllun, a byddwn yn tybio bydd yr Aelod dros Ddwyrain Caerfyrddin a Dinefwr yn cefnogi’r peth. Mae’n rhaid ein bod yn cefnogi gwerth yr arian a gwerth unrhyw gynllun a dyna wirionedd y peth yn y pen draw.
Yn ei ddatganiad o’r Gyllideb, nododd fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus y Canghellor gynlluniau i sicrhau cynnydd o £1.2 biliwn i gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae’r cynnydd yn y cyllid yn cynnwys, am y tro cyntaf, mwy na £65 miliwn dros y tair mlynedd nesaf o ganlyniad i wella fformiwla Barnett o ryw 5%, a gytunwyd yn fframwaith cyllidol Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae hyn yn addasu grant bloc Llywodraeth Cymru i adlewyrchu’r ffactor seiliedig ar anghenion a gytunwyd yn ei fframwaith cyllidol.
Mae’r drafodaeth ynghylch cyllid Cymru wedi bodoli ers datganoli—ac ers degawadau—a’r Llywodraeth hon sydd wedi rhoi sicrwydd ariannol tymor hir i Gymru. Ar hyn y bryd, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael £120 am bob £100 cymaradwy sydd yn cael ei wario yn Lloegr.
(Translation) Evidently, whichever way a scheme such as this is financed, taxpayers must support it. That is the point. Therefore, we must test the value for money of any such scheme, and I believe that the hon. Gentleman will support that. That is the truth of the matter.
In my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s Budget statement, he set out plans to increase the Welsh Government budget by £1.2 billion. The increased funding includes, for the first time, more than £65 million over the next three years resulting from the 5% Barnett formula boost agreed in the Welsh Government’s fiscal framework, which adjusts the Welsh Government block grant to reflect the needs-based factor, as agreed by their fiscal framework.
Many hon. Members will know that that discussion about the Welsh budget has taken place since devolution and has gone on for decades. This UK Government have given long-term financial security to Wales. The Welsh Government receive £120 for every equivalent £100 spent in England.
Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC)
Mae’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn gwneud pwynt diddorol iawn. Wrth gwrs, mae yna ryw gynnydd wedi bod yng nghyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru, ond a yw e’n hapus, fodd bynnag, gyda sut mae’r cynnydd yna’n cymharu gyda’r cynnydd yng nghyllideb yr Alban, neu hwnnw yng nghyllideb Gogledd Iwerddon yn sgil y gytundeb rhwng Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig a phlaid yr Unoliaethwyr Democrataidd?
(Translation) The Secretary of State makes an interesting point. Yes, there has been an increase in the Welsh Government budget, but is he happy about how that compares with the increase in Scotland or Northern Ireland, given the deal between the UK Government and the Democratic Unionist party?
Alun Cairns
Yr unig ffordd gallaf ymateb yw trwy gyfeirio at beth ddywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru a Gerry Holtham ar y pryd. Dywedodd Gerry Holtham ei fod yn “setliad teg iawn”, ac fe wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru eu hunain gyhoeddi, yn y Cynulliad, y byddai’r fargen hon yn darparu cyllid tymor hir teg i Gymru. Dyna beth ddywedodd Gweinidogion y Cynulliad ym Mae Caerdydd.
(Translation) I can only go back to what the Welsh Government and Gerry Holtham said at the time. He said it was a very fair settlement, and the Welsh Government said in the Assembly that the deal would provide fair, long-term funding for Wales. That is what the Assembly’s Ministers said in Cardiff Bay.
Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)
The Secretary of State talks about the needs of Wales. A couple in my constituency are moving into a property. As a result of the move from employment and support allowance to universal credit, they will be £169 a month worse off, and they will be hit by the bedroom tax. Has not the Budget done absolutely nothing for that couple, and indeed for many of my other constituents?
Alun Cairns
The best way out of poverty is to encourage people into work and to progress within a work environment. Universal credit has been transformational in that. I point the hon. Gentleman to the data: unemployment in his constituency and others across Wales and the whole of the UK has fallen by close to 50%, depending on the community, and the greatest effect is being felt in areas where universal credit is being rolled out.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
There are two responses to that. First, the jobs referred to are often, I am afraid, zero-hours contract jobs and very insecure. They are not the jobs where people can build a life, whether by taking out a car loan or indeed having a mortgage. Secondly, and worse still, we talk of jobs as a route out of poverty, but the Government have driven in-work poverty up to record levels.
Alun Cairns
I do not recognise the hon. Gentleman’s points. The working environment is changing, and that is exactly why today the Government published our response to the Taylor review, which recognises the further rights we need to give workers to protect those who find themselves in what they consider to be vulnerable situations. That is an example of the Government responding to concerns raised. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will give credit to Matthew Taylor and the work he did on the report.
Yn unol ag argymhellion Comisiwn Holtham, a’r hyn y cytunwyd arno yn y fframwiath cyllidol, ni fydd y swm y soniais amdano—sydd yn cael ei roi yn y grant bloc dan fformiwla Barnett—byth yn disgyn yn is na £115. Dyma’r cyllid gwaelodol—“funding floor”—mae rhai wedi bod yn galw amdano ers degawdau, a’r Llywodraeth yma sydd wedi cyflawni hynny. Yn unol â’r cytundeb hwn, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu tyfu’r economi, denu buddsoddiadau newydd, cynnal eu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a chefnogi pobl sydd yn gweithio’n galed ar hyd a lled Cymru.
Ar ôl datganoli treth stamp ar dir a threthi tirlenwi ym mis Ebrill, yn ogystal â chyfraddau treth incwm yng Nghymru y flwyddyn nesaf, bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu codi mwy o’u cyllid ei hunain trwy’r trethi hyn. Bydd hyn yn gwneud Llywodraeth Cymru, a’r Cynulliad yn gyffredinol, yn llawer mwy atebol i’r bobl maent yn eu gwasanaethu. Am y tro cyntaf, yng Nghyllideb yr hydref fe wnaeth Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig addasu grant bloc Llywodraeth Cymru i ystyried hyn, gan roi rhagor o gyfrifoldeb i Lywodraeth Cymru dros y bobl maent yn eu gwasanaethu. Fel ddywedais ynghynt, wnaeth Gerry Holtham gefnogi’r newid a wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru dderbyn y newid a’i groesawu ar y pryd.
Mae Cyllideb yr hydref yn cynnwys mesurau penodol a fydd o fudd uniongyrchol i Gymru. Yn ogystal â pharhau i gefnogi’r bargeinion dinesig ar gyfer Caerdydd ac Abertawe trwy fuddsoddi £615 miliwn dros yr 20 mlynedd nesaf, cyhoeddwyd yn y Gyllideb bod Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn croesawu cynigion ar gyfer bargen twf i ganolbarth Cymru ac y byddai’n dechrau trafodaethau ffurfiol ar gyfer bargen twf i ogledd Cymru.
(Translation) In accordance with the Holtham Commission’s recommendations, agreed through the fiscal framework, the sum given via the block grant under the Barnett formula will not fall below £115. Some have called for that funding flow for decades, and it is this Government who have delivered on those calls. In accordance with the agreement, the Welsh Government have the means to grow the Welsh economy, to attract investment, to maintain public services and to support hard-working people across Wales.
Following the devolution of stamp duty land tax and landfill tax from April, in addition to the Welsh rate of income tax next year, the Welsh Government will be able to raise more of their own funding through those taxes. That will make the Welsh Government—and the Assembly in general—much more accountable to the people they serve.
For the first time, in the autumn Budget the UK Government adjusted the Welsh Government’s block grant to take that into account, giving the Welsh Government further responsibilities and making them more accountable to the people they serve. As I said earlier, Gerry Holtham supported this change, and the Welsh Government accepted and welcomed the change at the time.
The autumn Budget also includes specific measures that will be of benefit to Wales. In addition to continuing to support the Cardiff and Swansea city deals by investing £650 million over the next 20 years, the Budget announced that we as a UK Government are open to proposals for a mid-Wales growth deal. We will also begin formal negotiations for a north Wales growth deal.
Ben Lake
Ar fargen twf canolbarth Cymru, un o’r pethau rwyf yn siwr y bydd y tri ohonom sydd yn cynrychioli etholaethau yng nghanolbarth Cymru yn dweud yw cysylltedd—connectivity. Mae dirfawr angen i wella ar hyn yng nghanolbarth Cymru ac rwyf yn fawr obeithio y bydd modd cynnwys hyn yn y fargen yma.
(Translation) On the mid-Wales growth deal, one of the issues for the three of us who represent constituencies in mid-Wales is connectivity. We truly need to make improvements to that in mid-Wales and I hope that it can be included in the growth deal.
Alun Cairns
Rwyf eisiau tynnu cymunedau at ei gilydd: yn amlwg cymunedau o Geredigion ac o Bowys, ond hefyd rwyf yn gobeithio bydd cyfleoedd i rai o’r siroedd yn Nghymru ac ar yr ochr arall i gydweithio er mwyn denu buddsoddiant newydd i’r ardaloedd ac er mwyn cefnogi’r economi. Mae hynny’n golygu y byddai pob rhan o Gymru yn cael budd o’r gefnogaeth leol a phenodol y mae bargeinion dinesig a thwf yn ei chynnig. Ac mae hyn, wrth gwrs, ar ben y fformiwla Barnett newydd sydd wedi ei chytuno.
(Translation) I am very much in favour of bringing communities together, whether they be the communities of Ceredigion or of Powys, but I am also eager to give opportunities to some of the counties of Wales—and those on the other side of the border too—to work together to attract new investment into those areas and to support the economy. Our policy means that every part of Wales will benefit from the local, targeted support offered by the city and growth deals. That is above the new Barnett formula that has been agreed.
Susan Elan Jones
Rydym yn croesawu bob cyhoeddiad am fargen twf gogledd Cymru, ond byddwn yn ei chroesawu’n fwy pan fydd yn digwydd. Pryd mae’n mynd i ddigwydd?
(Translation) I welcome any announcement on a north Wales growth deal, but I will welcome it more when it happens. When will it happen?
Alun Cairns
Rydw i’n falch fod y Foneddiges anrhydeddus wedi gofyn y cwestiwn. Y peth sydd wrth wraidd y cynlluniau twf a’r bargeinion dinesig yw bod y grym yn nwylo’r awdurdodau lleol a busnesau lleol. Felly, rydym yn rhoi cyfle at ei gilydd ac, yn amlwg, yn gobeithio bydd y Foneddiges anrhydeddus yn fodlon cydweithio gyda’r cymunedau a’r busnesau er mwyn eu bod yn cyflawni’r cynlluniau ac i ddod â realiti i’r broses wrth ei bod yn datblygu.
Fel Aelodau Seneddol o bob cwr o Gymru, mae’n bwysig ein bod i gyd yn rhan o’r broses hon. Felly, rwyf yn falch iawn y llwyddodd gymaint ohonoch i ymuno â Swyddfa Cymru cyn y Nadolig i glywed yn uniongyrchol gan ein partneriaid lleol ynglŷn â’u cynnydd yng ngogledd Cymru. Yn amlwg, mae angen mwy o waith i gefnogi’r gwaith da sydd wedi mynd o’i flaen.
(Translation) I am glad that the hon. Lady asked that question. What lies at the heart of the growth and city deals is that the power lies in the hands of local authorities and local businesses, so we are giving them an opportunity to come together. We hope that she is willing to work with communities and businesses to achieve the deals and to make them a reality as they develop.
It is important that Members of Parliament from all parts of Wales are part of the process. I was therefore delighted that so many of the Members present were able to join us before Christmas to hear directly from local partners on the progress that they are making in north Wales. Obviously, we need more work in that regard to support the good work that has taken place already.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
Mae angen i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol fod yn effro i’r perygl o weithio’n drawsffiniol: y bydd yr ardaloedd tlotaf, sef yr ardaloedd yn y gorllewin, o hyd yn olaf yn y dewisiadau. Rydym wedi cael yr un profiad gyda chysylltedd, lle mae dechrau gyda’r prif drefi yn golygu bod y cymunedau pellaf i ffwrdd yn cael eu anghofio erbyn y diwedd.
(Translation) The Secretary of State must be alive to the dangers of working on a cross-border basis: that the poorest areas—those in the west—will be left behind. That is the same problem we have had with connectivity, which started in the main towns, so the most remote communities were ultimately forgotten.
Alun Cairns
Rwyf yn falch iawn fod y cwestiwn yna wedi cael ei ofyn. Rwyf yn deall y peryg ac yn ymwybodol o’r sensitifrwydd. Mae’n rhaid bod y partneriaid lleol yn ymateb i hyn, er mwyn bod setliad gan bawb. Os nad yw pawb yn gytûn, yn amlwg, bydd y bargen dinesig a’r bargen twf ddim yn cael cefnogaeth gen i na’r partneriaid lleol eraill. Mae’n rhaid fod pawb yn gytûn yn y broses. Rwyf yn awyddus i weld busnesau ledled y rhanbarth a thu hwnt yn hybu'r bargeinion hyn, gan adeiladu ar gryfderau'r ardaloedd—pob ardal—gweithio'n drawsffiniol a rhoi hwb i'r economi lleol.
Roedd y Gyllideb hefyd yn cydnabod bod angen gwella ein rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd, gan roi hwb i gysylltiadau a gwella teithiau i gwsmeriaid ar y trenau mwyaf diweddar.
(Translation) I am very glad that that question was asked. Obviously, I understand the risk, and I am aware of the sensitivity that arises. Local partners must respond to that to ensure that the settlement is for everyone, because if everyone is not agreed, obviously the city or growth deal would not be supported, whether by me or by other local partners. Everyone must be agreed on the process. I am keen to see businesses across the region and from further afield driving the deals, building on the strength of the regions—that is all regions, cross-border too—and boosting the local economy.
The Budget also recognised the need to see further improvements to our rail network, boosting connectivity and delivering better journeys on the newest trains.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
What possible justification can the Secretary of State give for the breaking of a promise to electrify the railway line—
The Chair
Order. I hate to interrupt, but will the hon. Gentleman either put his headphones on or take them off, because of the feedback? I am taking advice from the technicians.
Wayne David
What possible justification can the Secretary of State give for breaking the promise to electrify the railway line from Cardiff to Swansea?
Alun Cairns
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for asking that question, but he will be fully aware of the calls by the Public Accounts Committee, which is formed on a cross-party basis, for every element to be reviewed case by case for value for money. Projects that were not deemed to be value for money because there would be no improvement, such as the time to be delivered between Cardiff and Swansea, did not justify the additional sums of money made available. Under the current proposals, it will be the same trains travelling on the same track arriving at the same time as would have been the case under electrification that went the whole way to Swansea or stopped in Cardiff.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
When the previous Tory Prime Minister, David Cameron, said how transformational that project would be and committed to it, he was wrong, was he?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman will be well aware that when that commitment was made, the intention was to use electric-only trains rather than bimodal trains.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
The former Secretary of State for Transport also categorically stated in the House of Commons that the valleys lines would be electrified by the end of 2018. There is absolutely no prospect of that happening, is there? Why do Conservative politicians keep making promises that they know they have no prospect of fulfilling?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman is well aware that that responsibility has been passed over to the Welsh Government, with additional money being made available by the UK Government for that scheme. I suggest that he puts that question to his colleagues in Cardiff Bay, because the former Transport Secretary would have been repeating the claims and the comments that had been made by politicians in Cardiff Bay.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
Given that there are new proposals on the table for the straightening of the line to Cardiff and Swansea to reduce the journey time by half an hour, alongside Swansea metro, will the Secretary of State look positively at those ideas as part of a wider city deal? Given that Wales has 6% of the track line and only about 2% of the investment in railway infrastructure, he should be standing up for Wales, rather than sitting down and thinking about his job before he thinks about Wales.
Alun Cairns
In the first instance, I would say that of course we will look at whatever project comes forward. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of demands that have been made. The First Minister made positive statements about a Swansea parkway station earlier this week in the Assembly, and there are demands coming from some community leaders in Swansea about such a station. Those are issues that we are happy to look at, and the Chancellor talked about proposals of that sort.
If any other project comes forward, we will happily look at it, but I remind the hon. Gentleman that in 13 years of Labour Government only 3 miles or 12 miles of track were electrified—there is a debate about that and we are not sure which, but I will happily give the benefit of the doubt and say that it was 12 miles. I also remind hon. Members that Wales was left as one of those nations, along with eastern European nations such as Moldova and Albania, with not a single track of electrified railway.
Alun Cairns
Mr Owen, gyda’ch cytundeb, ildiaf i’r anrhydeddus Aelod dros Dwyrain Caerfyrddin a Dinefwr.
(Translation) With your permission, Mr Owen, I will give way to the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr.
Jonathan Edwards
O ystyried hoffder y Llywodraeth Prydeinig o drenau dau-danwydd yng nghyd-destun rheilffyrdd Cymru, gallaf gymryd mai trenau dau-danwydd bydd yn rhedeg ar HS2, HS3 a Crossrail 2?
(Translation) Given the Government’s liking for bimodal-fuel vehicles for Welsh railways, may I assume that bimodal trains will be running on HS2, HS3 and Crossrail?
Alun Cairns
Rwy’n siwr bydd y Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn cefnogi edrych ar unrhyw brosiect i ddefnyddio’r dechnoleg orau posib ar gyfer cyflawni’r gwariant a’r gwerth arian sydd ymhob prosiect.
Gaf i symud ymlaen, Mr Owen? Rydym wedi gwella’r cysylltiad yng ngogledd Cymru, gan roi budd i bobl ar ddwy ochr y ffin. Bydd gwasanaethau uniongyrchol o ogledd Cymru i Lerpwl ar gael am y tro cyntaf mewn degawdau, diolch i’r buddsoddiad o £16 miliwn i’r Halton curve. Nawr rydym yn darparu prosiect ail-signalu gwerth £50 miliwn i uwchraddio rheilffyrdd gogledd Cymru. Byddai moderneiddio prif linell rheilffordd arfordir y gogledd yn rhoi hwb sylweddol i gysylltiadau trafnidiaeth y rhanbarth. Mae ein rhaglen moderneiddio Great Western, gan gynnwys ein buddsoddiad o £5.7 biliwn mewn trenau IEP o'r radd flaenaf, yn torri 15 munud oddi ar yr amseroedd teithio o dde Cymru i Lundain.
(Translation) Obviously, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be supportive of any project that will use the best possible technology to achieve the expenditure and the value for money that all projects require.
May I move on? We are improving connectivity for north Wales, benefiting people on both sides of the border, and direct services from north Wales to Liverpool will be possible for the first time in decades. That is thanks to our £16 million investment in the Halton curve. We are now delivering a £50 million re-signalling project to upgrade north Wales’s railway, and modernising the north Wales coast main line would be a significant boost to the region’s transport links. Our Great Western modernisation programme, including a £5.7 billion investment in new, state-of-the-art IEP trains, will cut journey times from south Wales to London by 15 minutes. At the Budget—
Alun Cairns
Rwyf yn fwy na hapus i ildio, ond rwyf hefyd yn gwbl ymwybodol o’r amser sydd yn cael ei gymryd.
(Translation) I am happy to give way, but I also feel very aware of the time that is being taken.
Jessica Morden
If the Secretary of State is serious about improving cross-border connectivity between parts of my constituency and Bristol and beyond, can he get the Department for Transport to improve those cross-border rail services that take my constituents to Bristol, Bath and beyond to work? They are woefully inadequate.
Alun Cairns
Rwyf yn falch iawn i ymateb yn bositif. Mae’r ymgynghoriad yn mynd yn ei flaen ar hyn o bryd ynglŷn â franchise Great Western Railways a pha fath o fodel y dylem gydweithio i’w sicrhau, ac rwyf yn argymell bod y Foneddiges anrhydeddus yn ymateb i’r ymgynghoriad. Rwyf eisiau gweld y cysylltiadau gorau posib rhwng Caerdydd, Casnewydd, Bryste a llefydd y tu hwnt yn gyflym ac yn effeithiol, er mwyn iddynt addasu at y cyfleoedd newydd a ddaw yn y rhanbarth sydd yn datblygu wrth i ni gael gwared o’r tollau ar bont Hafren. Hoffwn hefyd dalu teyrnged i’r Foneddiges anrhydeddus am ei hymgyrchu i gael gwared o’r tollau.
(Translation): I am very happy to respond positively. The consultation is under way on the Great Western railway franchise and the type of model that we should be collaborating to get. I recommend that the hon. Lady responds to that consultation. Obviously, I want to see the best possible connections between Cardiff, Newport and Bristol, and further afield. They should be quick and efficient for us to grasp the new opportunities that will arrive in a region that is developing, as we get rid of the tolls on the Severn bridge. I pay tribute to the hon. Lady for her campaigning to remove those tolls from the bridges.
Alun Cairns
Hoffwn fwrw ati i orffen yr araith rhywfaint a byddaf yn ildio yn nes ymlaen. Mae fy Ffrind gwir anrhydeddus Canghellor y Trysorlys hefyd wedi amlinellu gwaith ar gyfer y dyfodol i lunio cynigion ar gyfer cynlluniau rheilffyrdd posib eraill ar hyd a lled rhwydwaith Cymru. Roedd ein strategaeth ddiwydiannol yn sail i gyhoeddiadau’r Gyllideb ac rydym yn awyddus i adeiladu ar y bargeinion a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer y sectorau deallusrwydd artiffisial, lle mae Casnewydd yn rhagori; gwyddorau bywyd, lle mae Cymru eto ar flaen y gad, gyda nifer o ddatblygiadau cyffrous ac arloesol; a’r diwydiant cerbydau yng Nghymru, sy’n gartref i Toyota, Ford ac Aston Martin.
(Translation): Let me make some progress and I will give way later. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has outlined further work to develop proposals for other potential rail schemes across the Wales network. Our industrial strategy was a basis of the Budget announcements. We are keen to build on the sector deals on artificial intelligence that were announced, where Newport excels. In life sciences, Wales is at the forefront of several exciting and pioneering developments. In the automotive industry, Wales is home to Toyota, Ford and Aston Martin.
Ben Lake
Ar y nodyn hwnnw, crëwyd cryn dipyn o gynnwrf cwpl o wythnosau yn ôl pan ddatgelwyd y pwerdy gorllewinol. Wrth gwrs, roedd yn siomedig i ni yng Ngheredigion mai gorllewin Lloegr yr oedd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Gymru yn cyfeirio ati. O ran deallusrwydd artiffisial, eto dyma gyfle ar gyfer cynllun twf canolbarth Cymru. Mae Prifysgol Aberystwyth yn ganolfan arbenigol, felly byddai’n dda gweld unrhyw fesurau sydd gan y Llywodraeth i geisio ysgogi hyn.
(Translation): On that point, a few weeks ago there was quite some excitement when the western powerhouse was announced. It was unfortunate for Ceredigion that the Secretary of State referred only to south-east Wales and the south-west of England. On AI, there is an opportunity for the mid-Wales growth deal. Aberystwyth has great expertise in that area, so it would be good to see any proposals from the Government to encourage that development.
Alun Cairns
Rwyf yn ddiolchgar am y pwynt sydd wedi ei wneud a byddwn yn gobeithio y bydd Prifysgol Aberystwyth a phartneriaid lleol yn dod at ei gilydd er mwyn defnyddio’r arbenigedd lleol i dyfu’r economi a denu mwy o fuddsoddiad. Mae hynny’n swnio’n syniad cyffrous iawn o ran y fargen i dyfu’r economi.
Mae disgwyl i hyn fod o fudd i Gymru mewn sawl ffordd. Bydd yn cryfhau Cymru o ran ymchwil ac arloesi ac yn rhoi hwb i gysylltedd 5G ar gyfer busnesau bach a chanolig hanfodol Cymru. Fe gyhoeddwyd hefyd y bydd cronfa her yn cael ei sefydlu i drawsnewid y diwydiannau adeiladu, amaethyddiaeth a chynhyrchiant. Fel rhan o’n cynllun i hybu arloesi, rydym wedi ymrwymo i wario £2.3 biliwn ychwanegol ar ymchwil a datblygu ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, yn ogystal ag £21 miliwn pellach i ehangu Tech Nation dros y pedair mlynedd nesaf. Mae disgwyl i fusnesau digidol gael budd o’r ganolfan Tech Nation yng Nghaerdydd.
Rydym hefyd yn edrych ymlaen at ddatblygu cyfleoedd twf trawsffiniol ymhellach. Mae hyn i’w weld yn fwyaf amlwg yn ein hymrwymiad i ddiddymu tollau’r bont Hafren erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn, fel y soniais gynt. Mae hyn yn rhoi neges bwerus i fusnesau, cymudwyr a thwristiaid bod Cymru ar agor i fusnes. Bydd y polisi yn cryfhau'r cysylltiadau rhwng cymunedau ac yn helpu i drawsnewid rhagolygon economaidd de Cymru a de-orllewin Lloegr, gan greu coridor twf sy’n ymestyn o Geredigion, yr holl ffordd trwy Abertawe, Caerdydd a Chasnewydd i Fryste, Caerfaddon a thu hwnt. Bydd yr ymrwymiad hwn yn arbed tua £115 y mis i gymudwyr sydd yn teithio bob dydd. Ni fydd rhaid i gludwyr dalu £20 am bob lori sy’n cludo nwyddau chwaith. Bydd hwn yn newid mawr i’r tirlun economaidd ac yn cynnig cyfleoedd newydd i dde Cymru.
Bythefnos yn ôl, bum yn cynnal uwchgynhadledd yn y Celtic Manor yng Nghasnewydd, lle daeth partneriaid lleol at ei gilydd i drafod y cyfleoedd a fyddai’n dod yn sgil diddymu'r tollau. Roedd y digwyddiad yn llwyddiant ysgubol: daeth dros 350 o fusnesau a ffigyrau amlwg o Gymru a de orllewin Lloegr at ei gilydd i drafod ac ystyried y cyfleoedd newydd. Roedd 90% o’r rhai a oedd yn bresennol yn teimlo y byddai diddymu’r tollau yn rhoi hwb i'w busnes, ac roedd 97% yn teimlo y byddai diddymu’r tollau o fudd i Gymru. Mae hyn yn ddechrau partneriaeth gyffrous a hir-dymor ymysg diwydiant, academia, cymdeithas sifil a busnes. Gyda’n gilydd gallwn chwarae rhan allweddol yn y gwaith o hybu cynhyrchiant a ffyniant ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, lle bod Cymru i gyd yn elwa.
Roedd y Gyllideb hefyd yn amlinellu amrywiaeth o bolisïau ar gyfer y Deyrnas Unedig gyfan a fydd o fudd i Gymru. Rydym yn rhewi'r dreth danwydd am yr wythfed flwyddyn yn olynol, gan arbed bron i £9 i’r gyrrwr cyffredin yng Nghymru pan fydd yn llenwi ei gar. Rydym yn codi'r cyflog byw cenedlaethol, a fydd yn rhoi £600 o godiad cyflog blynyddol i weithwyr llawn-amser yng Nghymru. Rydym yn cynyddu lwfansau personol, bydd o fudd i fwy na 1.4 miliwn o bobl yng Nghymru. Bydd elusennau ledled Cymru yn elwa o dros £660,000 o gyllid LIBOR, gan gynnwys Gofal a Thrwsio Gogledd Ddwyrain Cymru, sy'n rhoi cyfleoedd gwaith a hyfforddiant i gyn-filwyr.
Mae Cymru mewn sefyllfa dda i fanteisio ar y cyfleoedd a ddaw yn sgil gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Cymru oedd y wlad wnaeth dyfu gyflymaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn 2016 a Chaerdydd oedd y brifddinas wnaeth dyfu gyflymaf. Ers y refferendwm, mae cwmnïau wedi dangos hyder yng Nghymru trwy fuddsoddi ynddi. Yn 2016-17, cafodd dros 2,500 o swyddi newydd eu creu trwy 85 o brosiectau yng Nghymru, o ganlyniad i fuddsoddiad mewnol.
(Translation): I am grateful for that point. I hope that Aberystwyth University and local partners will come together to use the expertise available locally, to grow the economy and to attract further investment. That sounds like a very exciting idea for the growth deal.
It is expected that Wales will benefit in many ways. Wales’s research and innovation will be boosted, as well as 5G connectivity for Wales’s vital small and medium enterprises. It was also announced that an innovation fund will be established to drive agriculture and productivity. As part of our innovation drive, we have committed to spend an additional £2.3 billion on UK-wide R&D, in addition to £21 million to expand Tech Nation over the next four years. Digital businesses in Wales are set to benefit from the Tech Nation hub based in Cardiff.
We look forward to further developing cross-border growth opportunities. That is most obvious in our commitment to abolish the Severn tolls by the end of the year, which I mentioned earlier. That sends a powerful message to businesses, commuters and tourists that Wales is open for business. This policy will strengthen the links between communities and help to transform the joint economic prospects of south Wales and the south-west of England, creating a growth corridor that stretches from Ceredigion through Swansea, Cardiff and Newport, to Bristol, Bath and further afield. This commitment will save the average commuter about £115 a month, and hauliers will no longer pay £20 for every truck transporting goods. It will make a profound change to the economic landscape and will offer new opportunities for south Wales.
Two weeks ago, I hosted a summit at Celtic Manor in Newport, which brought together local partners to discuss the opportunities arising from the abolition of the tolls. The event was a remarkable success. It was attended by more than 350 businesses and leading figures in Wales and the south-west of England, who all came together to discuss and consider the new developments. Some 90% of the attendees felt that their businesses will be boosted by the abolition of the Severn tolls, and 97% felt that the removal of the tolls will benefit Wales. It was the start of an exciting long-term partnership with industry, academia, civil society and business. Together, we can play a key role in driving productivity and prosperity across the whole of the UK, and all of Wales will benefit.
The Budget also outlined a range of UK-wide policies that will benefit Wales. We are freezing fuel duty for the eighth successive year, and the average driver in Wales will save nearly £9 every time they fill up their car. We are increasing the national living wage, which will deliver a £600 annual pay rise to full-time workers in Wales. We are increasing the personal allowance, which will benefit more than 1.4 million people in Wales. Charities across Wales—including Care & Repair North East Wales Ltd, which supports training and employment opportunities for veterans—will benefit from more than £660,000 of LIBOR funding.
Wales is well placed to seize the opportunities presented by exiting the EU. In 2016, Wales was the fastest-growing nation in the UK, and Cardiff was the fastest-growing capital city. Since the referendum, companies have shown their confidence by investing in Wales. In 2016-17, more than 2,000 new jobs were created through 85 projects in Wales as a result of inward investment.
Wayne David
Does the Secretary of State agree that business confidence would be increased massively if businesses had some sort of idea of what the Government are trying to negotiate in the Brexit negotiations?
Alun Cairns
The hon. Gentleman will recognise that we are in negotiations, and he would not expect us to show our hand during that process. I would point to the significant inward investment—the UK is the leading place for attracting inward investment in Europe, which demonstrates the confidence business is showing in the economy—and the uplift in economic growth last quarter.
Geraint Davies
More than 60% of Welsh trade goes to the EU. The 48% of people who voted to remain are in favour of the customs union and the single market, as are a portion of the people who voted to leave. Given that the majority of Welsh people are in favour of being in the customs union and the single market, will the Secretary of State fight for a soft Brexit?
Alun Cairns
It is far too simplistic to say that 60% of Welsh exports go to Europe, because supply chains are far more complex than that. The Welsh Government concluded that 80% of Welsh exports go to the rest of the United Kingdom, which demonstrates the complexity of the position. Therefore, maintaining the integrity of the single market is important.
Chris Elmore
In relation to the Secretary of State’s point about inward investment and jobs, one of the areas that is not growing is the car industry at the Ford plant in Bridgend, due to Jaguar Land Rover’s ending its contract early. One of the real concerns is that that is not linked to Brexit; it is about commercial decisions that I accept Ford has to make. It puts significant numbers of jobs at risk for people in my constituency. If we are not in a customs union, trade tariffs on car production could risk closing Ford. That is not scaremongering, before the Secretary of State accuses me of that; it is a real issue, which Ford is raising at the highest levels of Government in the UK, including the Welsh Government.
Alun Cairns
In the first instance, that is factually inaccurate. The contract is not being ended early; it was the natural end of the contract. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will be pleased that the Welsh Government and the UK Government are working together closely. Just over a week ago, I met the Assembly Cabinet Secretary for Finance to discuss how we can continue to work together and where officials can be part of a joint taskforce. That measure was requested and supported by the trade unions, and I was keen to respond positively to it.
The Aston Martin investment is just a short distance away, and that demonstrates the confidence that the industry has in the south Wales economy, with 700 jobs from one project, as well as the greater opportunities for the future that have been created. We take Ford very seriously, which is why we continue to work together with the unions, the Welsh Government and the UK Government, as well as Ford, to seek a positive outcome.
Mae’r ffigyrau hyn yn dangos bod Cymru’n parhau i fod yn gyrchfan atyniadol ar gyfer buddsoddiad tramor, gan roi hwb gwerthfawr i’r economi a chreu miloedd o swyddi.
Erbyn hyn, mae gan ein gwlad lwyfan aruthrol i adeiladu arno dros y misoedd nesaf wrth inni wneud cynlluniau i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, creu cysylltiadau cryfach gyda phartneriaid rhyngwladol a denu mwy o fuddsoddiad o farchnadoedd sy’n dod i’r amlwg.
Mae’r Gyllideb hon yn amlinellu pecyn grymus o fesurau a fydd yn helpu i lunio economi Cymru fel ei fod yn addas ar gyfer y dyfodol.
(Translation) These figures demonstrate that Wales remains an attractive destination for overseas investment, and that provides a valuable boost for the economy and creates thousands of jobs. Our country now has a tremendous platform to build on over the coming months as we make plans to leave the EU, and to forge stronger relations with international partners and attract more investment from emerging markets. This Budget outlines a powerful package of measures that will help to shape Wales’s economy into one that is fit for the future.
Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op)
As always, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen, and on behalf of the Labour party I welcome all Members of Parliament for Wales to the first Welsh Welsh Grand Committee. It is great to be here, and it is my first Welsh Grand since being appointed shadow Secretary of State—[Interruption.]
The Chair
Order. I am sorry to disturb the hon. Lady. Members are taking their headphones off but leaving them switched on, and the sound circulates around the room and causes feedback. If Members are not using their headphones, please can they turn them off?
Christina Rees
Thank you, Mr Owen.
It is great to be here. There have only been two Welsh Grand Committees in almost four years since July 2014. If a day is a long time in politics, four years is an age. I will not even try to articulate the changes that we have seen in that time, or say what the world looked like back then, except to say that Boris Johnson was still claiming credit for the London Olympics, David Cameron was still pretending to have a long-term economic plan, a European referendum was Nigel Farage’s dream, and Donald Trump was a rich but harmless reality TV star.
In real terms, we have seen positive changes to Wales’s representation in Westminster—three new Labour MPs are standing up for Wales as a result of the snap general election last year. My hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) won back her constituency, overturning the narrowest Tory majority in the UK of 27 votes with a thumping 3,269 majority. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North (Anna McMorrin), my phantasmagorical Parliamentary Private Secretary, won back Cardiff North from the Tories with a majority of 4,174, and my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) returned to the green Benches, winning back the seat that he held from 1997 and lost by 237 votes in 2015. We are so pleased that he came back in 2017 with a majority of 2,379, after a two-year sabbatical promoting mindfulness around the world. I am so grateful that Mr Statistics, as he is known, agreed to be my shadow Minister.
Christina Rees
I consider myself chastised, Mr Owen, and I am sorry to have incurred the wrath of the Chair.
Since the last Welsh Grand we have a new Secretary of State for Wales—he is rapidly approaching becoming the longest serving Welsh Secretary over the past eight years. I teased the new Under-Secretary of State for Wales during Welsh questions, so I shall move swiftly on before Mr Owen gives me the evil eye again.
We are here today to discuss the autumn Budget of 22 November and its impact on Wales. A famous Welsh Labour politician once said that politics is the “language of priorities”. That sentiment is never better displayed than in the setting of a Budget. Considering what Wales got out of the autumn Budget, we would be forgiven for thinking that this might be a brief sitting. I want to describe how a transformative Government Budget could be created, in the right hands. A Budget can be progressive and social. It can articulate investment in vital public services, demonstrate support for key industries and ensure that money is spent to benefit the many, not the few.
Nick Thomas-Symonds
Does my hon. Friend share my disappointment about the Tory Government’s lack of investment in communities? I am referring to the closure of local Department for Work and Pensions centres, including the proposed closure of the pension centre in Cwmbran. That is taking jobs out of communities.
Christina Rees
I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend. It is happening not only in his constituency but throughout Wales.
The famous Labour politician I mentioned was of course Nye Bevan, who knew that politics, power and responsibility come down to one thing: priorities. It is in their Budgets that Governments reveal their priorities. The autumn Budget revealed that Wales is not one of the UK Tory Government’s priorities. In the right hands, a Budget for Wales could deliver investment and the greatest good for the greatest number: money for the NHS, local government, education, and skills; investment in projects to tackle youth homelessness and to improve air quality; support for small businesses and business rate relief; funding to promote our language, which is a cornerstone of our culture, and for a growth in the use of Welsh in schools and colleges across the country; and a 21st century schools capital investment programme, investing not only in facilities but in our children’s future. That is a Budget. That is what a Budget can achieve when power is put in the right hands for Wales.
Of course those are not just warm words or hopeful rhetoric. They are the commitments of a Welsh Labour Government budget published less than a fortnight ago—a radical, progressive budget for the many, not the few. However, the Welsh Labour Government are working with one hand tied behind their back. Why? Because the failing Tory UK Government continue to press on with their futile and unnecessary austerity measures, impose cuts on the Welsh Labour Government’s block grant, and let Wales down.
Welsh Labour called on the Chancellor to end austerity and fund the Welsh Labour Government properly, enabling them to invest further in Welsh public services. He failed to do that. We demanded that he provide new funding to lift the public sector pay cap in Wales, which is hitting public sector workers year after year. He failed to do that. The autumn Budget—the Chancellor’s first since the change of pattern—shows once again the contempt and disregard that the UK Tory Government have for Wales. It is a shameful catalogue of missed opportunities, shot through with a callous disregard for the communities and people in Wales most in need of support.
Geraint Davies
Does my hon. Friend accept that, given that Wales is the poorest part of western Europe and we are going to lose convergence funding, it is appalling that the Welsh Government’s block grant should be cut by 5%—£900 million—at a time when we need to invest in education, rail and productivity and lift our opportunities rather than crush them?
Simon Hoare
I thank the hon. Lady for giving way, and her colleagues for keeping the seats they picked up in June warm until we pick them up next time. She has been very good at explaining how her party would spend and spend—one can only assume it would be by taxing and taxing, and borrowing and borrowing. Does she not accept that one of the first duties of the UK Treasury is to try and make sure that we live within our means, balance our books and set the framework for economic growth to deliver the taxes to pay for the services?
Christina Rees
Eight years of cuts and where has it got us? Your policies have driven up the debt. I really do not see where you are coming from.
Chris Bryant
Is not there another point? If the Government keep on trying to run the state on the cheap, they will end up spending more because they have to buy in agency workers in the NHS and schools, and pay consultants to do work that could have been done in-house. It is a complete and utter false economy that they have been running all these years.
Christina Rees
I really cannot add to that—my hon. Friend put it so well and I totally agree. That was my opinion on Budget day. I wonder if I could be persuaded differently by Conservative Members by the end of this Welsh Grand Committee today. The way things are going so far, I do not think I will.
Let me demonstrate the appalling attitude to Wales shown by the UK Tory Government through a budget that embodies this disdain. More than half of the new funding announced for Wales will have to be paid back to the UK Tory Government. Two thirds of the additional capital funding is made up of a form of funding called financial transactions, which must be repaid to the Treasury. There are also restrictions on what it can be spent on. The Welsh budget has experienced year on year cuts as a result of the UK Tory Government’s ongoing ideological programme of austerity. There is an ongoing battle between the social democratic values of the Welsh Labour Government versus the neoliberal ideology of the UK Tory Government.
Even with these small increases in funding, our budget will still be 5% lower in real terms in 2019-20 than it was in 2010-11, which is equivalent to having £900 million less to spend on public services in Wales. If we exclude the financial transactions funding, which we will have to pay back, our budget will be 7% lower, or equivalent to £1.1 billion less by 2019-20.
Wales has been let down elsewhere too. The Welsh Labour Government have repeatedly called on the UK Tory Government to fully fund a pay rise for all public sector workers. The UK Tory budget was a missed opportunity to do just that. The Welsh Labour Government have called on the UK Tory Government to invest in key infrastructure projects in Wales, including the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, which has been mentioned before, and rail, but the Chancellor once again turned his back on Wales. The only feedback we have had on the tidal lagoon is the vague point about value for money that was trundled out again last week and today, despite the UK Tory Government’s independent Hendry review recommending its support as a no-regrets decision. The Secretary of State has told us that Welsh Labour Government and UK Tory Government officials met to discuss the tidal lagoon, but what about the UK Tory Government decision-makers? When are they going to front up and put up? The Secretary of State knows that the Welsh Labour Government have pledged millions to support the Swansea bay tidal lagoon.
The UK Tory Government have cancelled the electrification of the main line from Cardiff to Swansea, as mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David). None of their explanations for doing so make economic or environmental sense. If the UK Tory Government had kept their promise to electrify the main line from Cardiff to Swansea, we would not have needed bimodal trains, which are heavier because they need to carry both sources of power, making each journey more expensive. The heavier trains increase wear and tear on the track, the buffet car has been taken out to make 130 more seats, and so on.
There has been no devolution of air passenger duty to Wales. Last week at Wales questions, the Secretary of State failed once again to answer a question put by the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) about devolving airport taxes. Building on the excellent work of Visit Wales, the Welsh Labour Government would be able to use the control of air passenger duty to support and promote Welsh tourism. Anyone who visits Wales will agree that it is spectacularly beautiful.
If I were being magnanimous––I am a very gentle, understanding person––I could mention something that the Tories did include for Wales in their Budget. They announced that the Severn bridge tolls will be scrapped by the end of next year, following an immediate cut to various charges. What they did not tell us is that the drop in toll prices is merely down to the removal of VAT, because legislation, rather than political priorities, dictates that VAT cannot be charged once the bridges have been brought back into public ownership. Who is to say that the Tories will not break yet another promise and fail to remove the tolls, even though it is difficult to do a U-turn while driving on the Severn bridges?
We urge the UK Tory Government to pause and fix universal credit, which is creating appalling poverty, debt and desperation for families across Wales. They choose not to, instead tinkering around the edges of a broken system. We ask the UK Tory Government once again to join Welsh Labour and support business, infrastructure and innovation, for on each and every one of these, Wales has been let down once again. On the crucial issue of the north Wales growth deal, after sustained pressure from Welsh Labour MPs and the Welsh Labour Government, the Chancellor indicated that discussions would begin to take the project forward. I am pleased to hear that that is going to happen today.
Mr David Jones
I have hesitated to intervene, but the hon. Lady is being less than fair. Was not the pressure on the Chancellor exerted by the all-party parliamentary group on Mersey Dee North Wales, which is chaired by her colleague, the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas)? That is a cross-party group and it was that group that applied the pressure.
Christina Rees
That group deserves some credit and I fully respect that the group has been moving things forward.
Ben Lake
Rwy’n ofni na wnaf i wneud llawer iawn o ffrindiau gyda’r hyn sydd gennyf i’w ddweud. Mae’r Foneddiges anrhydeddus yn gwneud pwyntiau cywir iawn. Un o’r pethau mae’n cyfleu yw pa mor anwastad yw gwariant Llywodraeth Prydain ar draws Cymru yn ddaearyddol. Mae rhaid, er tegwch, pwyntio at ffigyrau Llywodraeth Cymru yn ddiweddar, sydd yn dangos bod eu cynlluniau nhw ar gyfer gwariant 2017-18 yn cyfrifo at £102 y pen i’r boblogaeth yn y canolbarth a gorllewin Cymru o’i gymharu â £380 y pen i’r rheiny sydd yn byw yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Mae yna fai ar y ddwy ochr.
(Translation) I doubt that I will make many friends with what I am saying, but the hon. Lady is making some interesting points. One thing that comes across is how uneven UK Government expenditure is across Wales geographically. In fairness, we must also point to the recent Welsh Government figures, which show that their plans for expenditure in 2017-18 account for £102 per capita of the population in mid and west Wales, compared with £380 for those living in the south-east. There is blame on both sides.
Christina Rees
I am sure the Welsh Government are looking at every area of Wales to increase prosperity, and making every effort to do so.
Susan Elan Jones
I am interested by what the hon. Member for Ceredigion said, but he should remember that, around that time, there was a coalition between Labour and Plaid Cymru. There is much consensual working in the Assembly, which I welcome. He should be careful before firing his darts.
Christina Rees
I totally agree with my hon. Friend and I thank her for speaking in English, which takes me less time to understand. [Interruption.] I am not going to respond to that. I can imagine what it meant, but I am not going to respond.
As with every Tory pledge, the devil will be in the detail, and we await the detail for the north Wales and mid-Wales growth deals.
The UK Tory Government’s claims of an extra £1.2 billion for Wales are pure smoke and mirrors. The truth is that the real uplift to the Welsh budget is significantly smaller. In 2022, after nearly 12 years of UK Tory Government rule, UK GDP is forecast to be £41 billion, or 3%, lower than previously predicted. The Office for Budget Responsibility has downgraded its growth forecast for each of the next five years. That means that Wales will be significantly worse off than previously thought. That will have an impact on tax receipts, which will be £26 billion lower by 2022, there will be higher borrowing, and less funding will be available for public services.
All that is a direct product of the UK Tory Government’s ideological commitment to the failed and damaging policy of austerity. Despite eight years of Tory austerity, continued cuts to the block grant of more than £1 billion in total and the UK Tory Government continually letting Wales down, the Welsh Labour Government continue to do a remarkable job. They have led the way on sprinklers, plastic carrier bag charges, free bus passes and prescriptions, and opt-out organ donation. Our Welsh Labour Government continue to protect and invest in frontline services, and continue to work to protect our communities against the cruellest excesses of UK Tory Government cuts. That work will be much harder following November’s weak and desperate Budget from a UK Tory Government who simply do not care about Wales. At the end of the day, there is a saying in Wales: “Cymru yn arwain, eraill yn dilyn.”
Jonathan Edwards
Mae’n anrhydedd enfawr i wasanaethu dan eich arweinyddiaeth chi, Mr Owen, yn enwedig yn siarad, am y tro cyntaf, yn iaith y nefoedd. Rwyf yn gobeithio y bydd yr egwyddor yma yn cael ei ymestyn i Bwyllgorau eraill y Tŷ yma—er enghraifft, y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig dan arweinyddiaeth yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros Fynwy.
Rydym yn cyfarfod i drafod Cyllideb enbyd o siomedig. Roedd dadansoddiad y Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol, a ddaeth yr un adeg â’r Gyllideb, yn wirioneddol ddiflas, gyda rhagolygon wedi eu hisraddio ar gyfer buddsoddi gan fusnes, cynhyrchedd a thwf economaidd—a hyn am yr ail Gyllideb yn olynol.
Mae’n glir bod yr athroniaeth o gywasgu ariannol ymledol—expansionary fiscal contraction—a ddilynwyd gan y Trysorlys ers 2010 wedi methu yn llwyr. Holl bwynt llymder a thorri yn ôl ar fuddsoddi cyhoeddus oedd y dylsai fod wedi arwain at gynnydd enfawr mewn menter a buddosddi preifat.
Ynghyd â’r toriadau mewn buddsoddiad seilwaith, y gwrthwyneb sydd wedi digwydd, fel y gwnaethom ni rybuddio dro ar ôl tro—a hyn oll gyda’i gilydd yn arwain at lefel cynhyrchedd cronig. Yn wir, lefelau cynhyrchedd cronig y wladwriaeth Brydeinig oedd prif stori y Gyllideb.
(Translation) It is a huge privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen, particularly while speaking the language of heaven for the first time in the House. I hope that this principle will be extended to other Committees of the House, such as the Welsh Affairs Committee, which is chaired by the hon. Member for Monmouth.
We meet today to discuss the dreadfully disappointing Budget. The OBR’s analysis was truly depressing: for the second Budget on the bounce, it downgraded forecasts for business investment, productivity and economic growth. The philosophy of expansionary fiscal contraction pursued by the Treasury since 2010 has completely failed. Austerity and cuts to public investment were supposed to lead to a bonanza in private enterprise and investment—that was the whole point—but of course, as we consistently warned, the reverse happened, together with cuts in infrastructure investment. All that led to chronic productivity levels—indeed, that is main story for the UK.
The chronic productivity challenge that the UK faces was the major issue in the Budget. The situation that we find ourselves in was of course totally foreseeable.
Y canlyniad yn y pen draw yw bod y Trysorlys wedi colli ei dargedau dyled gan filltiroedd. Roedd hyn i fod dan reolaeth erbyn 2015—bwriedid iddo fod yn brosiect bum mlynedd—ond mae’n edrych fel petai cywasgu ariannol pellach am barhau tan ddiwedd y ddegawd nesaf. Ni fydd haneswyr economaidd y dyfodol yn garedig iawn i’r Llywodraeth Brydeinig.
Rydym yn gwynebu cenhedlaeth goll o ran safonau byw, gyda’r wasgfa fwyaf ers rhyfeoloedd Napoleon yn debyg o barhau tan o leiaf 2025, yn ôl y Resolution Foundation. Mae’r sefyllfa yma wedi cael ei greu, wrth gwrs, gan y cwymp mewn sterling.
(Translation) The end result was that the Treasury missed its debt and deficit targets by a country mile. That was all supposed to be under control by 2015. It was supposed to be a five-year project, but it looks like further fiscal contraction will now continue until the end of the next decade. Economic historians of the future will not look kindly on the UK Government. We face a lost generation in terms of living standards. According to the Resolution Foundation, the biggest squeeze since the Napoleonic wars is likely to continue until at least 2025. Of course, that came about as a result of the collapse of sterling.
According to economists, the collapse in the currency represents the least successful devaluation in history. Unlike the devaluation in China, which was driven by the People’s Bank of China to make the manufacturing sector competitive, the devaluation of sterling was a direct result of markets betting against the currency, which does not reflect well on what will happen following Brexit. The fact that there has been no export boom following the devaluation of the currency—as well as the fact that the currency has not rebounded after more than a year of promises, and with the British Government outlining their position on Brexit—does not bode well for the future.
Simon Hoare
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that manufacturing output and exports are at their highest for a decade?
Jonathan Edwards
The export boom that would be expected from a 20% devaluation in sterling has not occurred. That is the factual reality of the situation. The fact that the currency is not rebounding, despite the British Government apparently outlining what they want from the Brexit negotiations, indicates that the markets are betting against the British Government.
Chris Bryant
One of the biggest mistakes that the coalition Government made in 2010 was cutting capital budgets. That meant that we did not have the infrastructure in place that we need for a modern economy. That has hit productivity across the whole country.
Jonathan Edwards
Mae’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn gwneud pwynt cywir iawn a byddaf yn dychwelyd i’r pwyntiau hynny yn hwyrach yn fy araith.
(Translation) The hon. Gentleman makes a very valid point, and I will return to the issues he raises.
Liz Saville Roberts
A fyddai fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus yn cydymdeimlo gyda ffermwyr fyddai’n disgwyl gyda’r bunt wan y byddai defaid o faint bach yn gwerthu’n dda ar y cyfandir? Nid dyma’r neges a glywaf gan fy ffermwyr i ym Meirionydd.
(Translation) Does my hon. Friend sympathise with farmers who would expect smaller sheep to sell well on the continent, even though that is not the message that I am hearing from farmers in Meirionnydd?
Jonathan Edwards
Mae hynny’n wir. Roeddwn yn darllen rhywbeth ddoe bod disgwyl y bydd pris defaid, yn enwedig, a chig yn syrthio’n ddifrifol os mae Cymru’n ffeindio’i hunan y tu allan i’r undeb tollau. Mae’r peryglon ar gyfer y sector amaethyddol, sydd yn ein gwynebu yn y dyfodol agos, yn beryglus iawn. Mae ein arweinydd seneddol yn codi pwynt dilys iawn.
(Translation) That certainly is the case. I was reading something yesterday that said that the price of sheep, and of meats in general, is expected to fall significantly if Wales finds itself outside the customs union. The risks for the agricultural sector in the very near future are huge. Our parliamentary leader raises a very valid point.
Susan Elan Jones
Rwyf yn cytuno gyda’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn llwyr wrth iddo sôn am yr argyfwng ym myd ffermio, ond ydy e’n meddwl hefyd ein bod yn sôn nid am ffermio’n unig ond hefyd am yr economi wledig gyfan ar ôl Brexit? Mae hynny yn drychinebus, i fod yn onest.
(Translation) I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman about the crisis in agriculture. Does he believe that we are talking about not only farmers, but the broader rural economy, as a result of Brexit? This truly is a crisis, is it not?
Jonathan Edwards
Mae’r Foneddiges anrhydeddus yn codi pwynt hollol sylfaenol. Mae amaeth yn ganolog i’r economi wledig. Os yw amaeth yn dioddef, bydd sectorau eraill yn dioddef, megis twristiaeth a phob math o sectorau. Gallen i fynd i fewn i araeth hir iawn am beth sydd angen gwneud i amddiffyn ein sector amaethyddol, ond dwi’n credu byddaf yn mynd ychydig y tu allan i gwmpas y Gyllideb. Rwyf wir yn credu bod Brexit yn bwynt mor ganolog y dylai’r Uwch Bwyllgor yma gwrdd eto yn fuan iawn i drafod polisi’r Llywodraeth. Credaf mai hwn, o bell ffordd, yw’r prif her sy’n ein gwynebu.
(Translation) The hon. Lady raises a fundamental point. Agriculture is a focal point for the rural economy. If agriculture suffers, other sectors will suffer, such as tourism and others. I could make a lengthy speech about what needs to be done to protect our agricultural sector, but that might be outside the scope of the Budget. I truly believe that Brexit is such a fundamental point that this Welsh Grand Committee should meet again very soon to discuss the Government’s policy. That is the major challenge facing the Government.
The Chair
Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi clywed y cais. Cariwch ymlaen os gwelwch yn dda.
(Translation) I am sure that the Government will have listened to your words. Please carry on.
Jonathan Edwards
I ddychwelyd i’r Gyllideb, mae’r Deyrnas Gyfunol—y wladwriaeth Brydeinig—wedi disgyn o’r pedwerydd i’r chweched safle yn nhabl economaidd y byd. Mae wedi colli’r raddfa credyd A driphlyg a dyma’r economi sydd bellach yn perfformio waethaf yn y G7. Mae’r eurozone—sy’n cael ei ddifenwi mor aml yn y lle yma—yn tyfu ar raddfa y gall economi Prydain ond freuddwydio amdani. Bu i’r economi Gwyddelig yn y trydydd chwarter, flwyddyn ar flwyddyn, dyfu 10.5% y llynedd, lle mae economi Cymru yn gwynebu tyfiant anemig iawn.
Y gwirionedd yw, fel dywedodd yr Aelod anrhydeddus dros y Rhondda, ar ôl y chwalfa yn 2010 ni aethpwyd i’r afael â’r diffygion strwythurol. Beth ddigwyddodd i’r addewid i ymdrin ag anghydraddoldebau cyfoeth sectorol a daearyddol? Dyna beth oedd George Osborne yn siarad amdano dro ar ôl tro yn 2010. Maent yn gronig bellach, ac yn gwaethygu. Does dim rhyfedd nad yw Aelodau’r Meinciau gyferbyn bellach yn sôn am eu slogan y cynllun economaidd hir-dymor: mae’r economi yn gwynebu anawasterau difrifol yn y tymor byr i ganolig.
Wnaf i ddim disgyn i’r demtasiwn o feirniadu Llywodraeth Prydain eto fyth am ddewis y llwybr Brexit mwyaf economaidd niweidiol. Digon yw dweud fod y strategaeth y cytunwyd arni ymlaen llaw o adael y farchnad sengl a’r undeb tollau yn cael ei gofnodi mewn hanes fel gweithred o hunan-niweidio economaidd hollol ddideimlad. Nid dim ond ein masnach gydag Ewrop sy’n cropian at ddibyn trychineb. Os bydd y Deyrnas Gyfunol yn gadael yr undeb tollau, bydd cytundebau masnach newydd yn cael eu trafod gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol yn hytrach na’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. O ystyried dibyniaeth anghymesur y Ddeyrnas Gyfunol ar wasanaethau ariannol a phŵer lobi Dinas Llundain, mae gwir bosibilrwydd yr aberthir buddiannau diwydiant gweithgynhyrchu ac amaethyddiaeth Cymru er mwyn cael triniaeth mwy ffafriol i fuddiannau Dinas Llundain.
(Translation) To return to the Budget, the UK has fallen from fourth to sixth in the global economic tables; it has lost its triple A credit rating and is the worst-performing economy in the G7. The much-maligned eurozone is growing at a rate that the British economy can only dream of. In the third quarter last year, the Irish economy grew 10.5% year on year, whereas the Welsh economy faces very anaemic growth. As the hon. Member for Rhondda said, following the 2010 crash we did not tackle the structural deficiencies. What happened to the pledges to address sectoral and geographical wealth inequalities? George Osborne talked about that consistently in 2010, but they are now chronic and getting worse. No wonder Conservative Members are no longer parroting their slogan “long-term economic plan”. The truth is that the economy faces serious problems in the short to medium term.
I will resist the temptation to criticise once again the British Government for choosing the most economically damaging Brexit path. The predetermined strategy of leaving both the single market and the customs union will go down in history as an act of callous economic self-harm. It is not just our trade with Europe that will be perilously close to disaster if UK leaves the customs union: new trade deals will be negotiated by the UK Government rather than the EU, and given the UK’s disproportionate reliance on financial services and the power of the City of London lobby, there is a real prospect that the interest of Welsh manufacturing and agriculture will be sacrificed to gain more favourable treatment for the City of London.
Trade negotiations are a bargaining process, a negotiation between two sides. There is no doubt in my mind, looking at the personnel in the Department for International Trade, that their priority in these negotiations will be ensuring maximum access for the London financial sector to the markets of other countries. What will they want? They will want access to our food sector, of course. That will be the obvious trade-off.
A prime example of that is what happened with Chile. There is a European Union trade deal in place at the moment, and despite our protestations that leaving the customs union would result in those third countries wanting to renegotiate their arrangement with the UK, what did the British Government say? “No, it’ll be all the same; it’ll be the status quo, no problem. Nothing will change.” What did Chile want? It wanted enhanced access to our food markets. That is a foretaste of what is facing key sectors of the Welsh economy in Brexit Britannia.
Fel y gosodwyd ym mhapur diweddar Llywodraeth Cymru ar gytundebau masnach, llawer o ardaloedd tlotaf Cymru yw’r rhai sy’n dibynnu fwyaf naill ai ar weithgynhyrchu neu’r diwydiant amaethyddol—ardaloedd sydd debycaf o golli eu gwarchodaeth wrth i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol ffarwelio â hwy wrth chwilio am gytundebau masnach.
(Translation) As was set out in the Welsh Government’s recent paper on trade deals, many of the poorest areas in Wales are the most dependent on either manufacturing or the agricultural industry—areas prime for the UK Government to negotiate away their protections in search of trade deals.
I must make the point that the Welsh Government’s statement on trade yesterday was deeply disappointing, with the First Minister refusing to ensure that the Welsh Government would have a full say in what trade deals were signed in future. The reality that Wales will face as a country is that Wallonia, a region of Belgium, will have greater say over European Union trade deals than Wales will have within the British state over future UK trade deals—
The Chair
Order. I think the hon. Gentleman has got a bit ahead of himself and thinks he has been given the second debate on Brexit and the European Union. We need to stick to the Budget.
The Chair
I am sure that the hon. Member for Swansea West is going to intervene on the Budget.
Geraint Davies
On the Budget’s implications for agricultural trade, is the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr aware that the World Trade Organisation struck down and penalised the EU when it said it would not allow hormone-impregnated beef into the EU? Still, the EU has resisted hormone-impregnated beef. Does he not think that, if we stand alone against the United States and it wants to impose hormone-impregnated beef on Welsh consumers, with the WTO behind it, we will have to like it or lump it?
Jonathan Edwards
The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. The hon. Member for Caerphilly and I were in the United States a few years ago, and we had a very interesting discussion with the food lobby there. I guarantee that it carries a lot of weight, and that is a clear indication of some of the problems we will face in future.
I shall return to the Budget.
Mewn polisi ariannol y mae’r perygl arall. Mae polisi ariannol hynod lac gan y Banc Canolog wedi cynnal yr economi ers 2010, a bydd oes yr arian rhad yn diflannu’n raddol wrth i gyfraddau llog gychwyn ar eu taith tuag at normaleiddio.
Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, daeth twf economaidd i ddibynnu fwyfwy ar wariant gan ddefnyddwyr fel canran o GDP. Bydd methiant i ail-gydbwyso oddi wrth economi a gynhelir gan ddyled cartrefi yn rhwystr sylweddol yn y blynyddoedd i ddod.
(Translation) Monetary policy is another danger. The ultra-loose monetary policy of the central bank has sustained the economy since 2010, and the area of cheap money will gradually be removed as interest rates begin their journey to normalisation. During that period, economic growth has become even more reliant on consumer spending as a percentage of GDP. Failure to rebalance from an economy sustained by household debt will be a significant barrier in years to come.
Personal debt is reaching the level it was at before the great crash of 2008. That should be of great concern to us all.
Mae dirwasgiadau yn dueddol o ddod bob degawd, sy’n golygu, naw mlynedd wedi chwalfa ariannol fawr 2008 ein bod yn nes at ddiwedd y cylch na’i gychwyn. Nid yw’r methiant i neidio’n ôl yn sydyn o’r chwalfa fawr ac i ail-gydbwyso yn sectoraidd a daearyddol, na dibyniaeth yr economi ar beiriant cynnal bywyd polisi arianyddol yn argoeli’n dda at y dyfodol.
(Translation) Recessions tend to come each decade, which means that nine years after the great financial crash of 2008, we are far nearer the end of the cycle than its beginning. The failure to rebound sharply from the great crash, the failure fundamentally to rebalance sectorally and geographically, and the reliance of the economy on the life support of monetary policy do not bode well for the future.
The failure to rebound quickly from the great recession, the failure to rebalance sectorally and geographically, and the decade-long dependence on the life support of ultra-loose monetary policy do not bode well for the future.
O ystyried graddfa’r her, nid yw’r Mesur Cyllid yn addas. Cyn ymdrin â rhai o gymalau’r Mesur hwn, carwn ganolbwyntio ar rai o’r darpariaethau sydd, ysywaeth, ar goll.
Mae model economaidd y Deyrnas Gyfunol a ddilynwyd ers degawdau gan holl bleidiau sefydliad San Steffan wedi ei seilio ar hyrwyddo gweithgarwch a chyfoeth yn Llundain a de-ddwyrain Lloegr. Dylai’r anghydraddoldebau daearyddol o ran cyfoeth fod yn destun cywilydd i wleidyddion San Steffan. Mae naw o’r deg rhanbarth tlotaf yng ngogledd Ewrop yn y wladwriaeth Brydeinig yn ogystal â’r un cyfoethocaf. Yn anffodus, wrth gwrs, mae gorllewin a gogledd Cymru ymysg y tlotaf. Dylai’r Trysorlys fod yn ceisio ymdrin â’r record gywilyddus hon, ac eto does dim yn y mesur cyllid hwn fydd o ddifrif yn mynd i’r afael â’r heriau o’n blaenau.
Efallai mai un o ganlyniadau Brexit fydd y bydd cwmnïau ariannol Dinas Llundain yn adleoli i Baris, Frankfurt a Dulyn. O ystyried hynny, dylai Llywodraeth Prydain ymateb drwy ganolbwyntio ar sectorau economaidd eraill, yn enwedig gweithgynhyrchu. Dylai hyn arwain at symud y pwsylais ymaith o dde-ddwyrain Lloegr i’r cenhedloedd a’r rhanbarthau.
Yn anad dim, dylai Cymru gael y grym cyllidol i lunio ein heconomi ein hunain. Mae’n warthus fod gan yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon setliad cyllidol a threthiannol llawer gryfach na Chymru. Oherywdd hyn, bydd economi Cymru dan anfantais sylweddol. Dydw i methu deall pam nad yw gwleidyddion o’r pleidiau Unoliaethol a bleidleisiodd o blaid rhoi mwy o bwerau i’r Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon yn barod i ddarparu ar gyfer ein cenedl ni ein hunain.
Hyd yn oed os ydym yn rhoi i’r neilltu yr anghydraddoldebau cyfansoddiadol, mae’r sefyllfa yn golygu fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn llai abl i ymyrryd yn ein heconomi. Os mai Brexit caled fydd hi, dylid datganoli portffolio cyfan o drethi, gan gynnwys treth teithwyr awyr, treth ar werth a threth gorfforaeth.
Dylai buddsoddi mewn seilwaith gael ei wasgaru’n fwy cyfartal ar draws y wladwriaeth Brydeinig.
(Translation) Considering the scale of the challenge, the Finance Bill is in no way fit for purpose. Before addressing some of the measures in the Bill, I will concentrate on some provisions that are sadly missing. The UK economic model, which has been followed for decades by all the establishment parties in Westminster, is based on promoting activity and wealth in London and the south-east of England. The geographical wealth inequality should be a matter of shame for Labour and all politicians in Westminster. Nine of the 10 poorest regions in northern Europe are in Britain, as well as the richest. Unfortunately, west Wales and north Wales are among the poorest. The Treasury’s overriding aim should be to address that shameful record, but nothing in the Finance Bill will seriously get to grips with the challenges facing us.
One consequence of Brexit might be the relocation of London-based financial companies to Paris, Frankfurt or Dublin. Given that, the British Government should focus on other economic sectors, and manufacturing in particular. That should shift the focus away from London to the nations and regions.
First and foremost, Wales should be empowered to create its own economy. It is disgraceful that Scotland and Northern Ireland have stronger financial settlements than Wales. Given that, the Welsh economy will be at severe disadvantage. I cannot understand why politicians from Unionist parties vote in favour of giving more power to Scotland and Northern Ireland, but are unwilling to do so for our own nation. Putting aside the constitutional imbalances, that means that the Welsh Government are less able to intervene in our economy. If we are to have a hard Brexit, a portfolio of taxes should be devolved, including air passenger duty, VAT and corporation tax.
Infrastructure investment should be more evenly spread across Britain. Why should Welsh taxpayers’ money be spent on English projects?
Chris Bryant
We had a vote last week on what we will do about the Palace of Westminster, where lots of people were anxious about us spending so much money in London. Is there not a really important thing we could do for every region of the United Kingdom? After Brexit, we will not have the skills in this country to complete the work on one of our biggest infrastructure projects, so should we not set up a parliamentary apprenticeship scheme so that people can gain those skills in Wales, with every constituency in Wales having someone working on the project here?
Jonathan Edwards
Mae’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus yn codi pwynt dilys. Ces i ddim y cyfle i wneud y pwynt yma yn ystod y ddadl, ond yn bersonnol byddwn i wedi moyn symud y Senedd allan o Lundain. Rydw i’n credu byddai hynny wedi bod yn symbol o’r angen i ddatganoli’n economaidd y Wladwriaeth Brydeinig. O ystyried bod y penderfyniad bellach wedi cael ei wneud—rwy’n llongyfarch y Bonheddwr anrhydeddus ar ennill ar ei welliant—dylem nawr fanteisio ar y cyfle i sicrhau bod y buddsoddiad hynny yn cael ei wasgaru ledled y Wladwriaeth Brydeinig. Rwy’n credu bod yna job wirioneddol i’w wneud ar hynny, ac rwy’n edrych i’r Bonheddwr anrhydeddus i gynnig arweiniad, o ystyried mai fe sydd wedi arwain y ddadl i aros fan hyn—dyna job fach iddo fe dros y blynyddoedd nesaf.
(Translation) The hon. Gentleman raises a valid point. I did not have the opportunity to make this point during the debate, but I wanted to move Parliament away from London, because that would be a symbol of the need to devolve the British states economically, too. Given that a decision has been made—I congratulate him on getting his amendment to that motion through—we should take every opportunity to ensure that that investment is spread across Britain. There is a real job to be done there, and I look to him to give leadership on that over the next few months, given that he has led the debate for remaining here.
Liz Saville Roberts
Ar destun yr ardoll brentisiaethau, onid yw’n amser i ni gael mwy o eglurdeb ynglyn â chwmnïau gyda’u prif swyddfeydd tu allan i Gymru a gyda gweithwyr o Gymru, a’r arian sydd yn cael ei drosglwyddo o’r Trysorlys fan hyn i Gaerdydd? Yn enwedig, mae’r ardoll o 0.5% yn cael ei chodi ar gyflogres pedwar Heddlu Cymru, ond nid yw hynny o ddewis Llywodraeth Cymru ac nid ydyw’n cael ei rhoi tuag at hyfforddiant yr heddlu.
(Translation) On apprenticeships, is it not time for us to get greater clarity on businesses that are headquartered outside Wales but have workers from Wales, with respect to the money that is transferred from the Treasury to Cardiff? In particular, the levy is raised on the four police forces of Wales, which can apply to their wage packets, but it does not come under the responsibility of the Welsh Government and it does not reach the police’s training budgets.
Jonathan Edwards
Mae hynny’n bwynt hollol deg o ran prentisiaethau plismona. Yn sicr, bydd Aelodau ein plaid ni yn ei godi yn y ddadl ar Lawr y Tŷ prynhawn yma. Y cwestiwn sylfaenol yw: pam y dylid gwario arian trethdalwyr Cymru ar brosiectau yn Lloegr tra bod Llywodraeth Prydain yn gwrthod buddsoddi mewn prosiectau Cymreig ac mewn gwirionedd yn torri addewidion megis trydaneiddio’r rheilffordd i Abertawe? Rydym ni wedi clywed lot yn barod am y pwnc hynny yn ystod y ddadl.
Os yw Llywodraeth Prydain eisiau codi cynhyrchedd mewn ardaloedd daearyddol sydd yn perfformio’n wael, rhaid iddynt ailgyfeirio buddsoddiad i’r ardaloedd hynny yn hytrach na lluchio popeth at Lundain. Mae pawb bellach yn cytuno bod buddsoddiad estynedig, tymor hir mewn seilwaith yn un o ragofynion llwyddiant economaidd. Os edrychwn ar fuddsoddiad o’r fath dros y degawdau aeth heibio, yr hyn a welwn yw cyfran anghymesur o fuddsoddiad o’r fath yn mynd i Lundain a de-ddwyrain Lloegr. Gallwn edrych ar HS1, lein y Jiwbilî, lein Victoria, Crossrail 1, Crossrail 2, yr M25 a HS2. Ni fu buddsoddiad cyffelyb yn unrhyw wlad na rhanbarth arall o’r Deyrnas Gyfunol. Pam? Oherwydd nifer o ffactorau, gan gynnwys agwedd Lundain-ganolog y pleidiau Unoliaethol. Gall hefyd fod oherwydd y modelau economaidd a ddefnyddir wrth werthuso buddsoddiadau o’r fath.
O ystyried y swyddi sydd wedi eu canoli yn Llundain, mae’r elw tymor byr ar bob punt a fuddsoddir mewn seilwaith yn debygol o fod yn uwch yno na mewn rhannau eraill o’r wladwriaeth Brydeinig. Mae hyn yn ei dro yn arwain at sbiral lle mae symiau cynyddol o fuddsoddiad trafnidiaeth yn mynd i Lundain, ac yn eu tro mae’r rhanbarthau tlotaf yn mynd a’r sbiral tuag at i lawr. Mae yma wers inni yng nghyd-destun Cymru. Fel dywedodd fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus dros Geredigion, mae’r buddsoddiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru wedi’i anelu’n fwyfwy at Gaerdydd a’r de-ddwyrain yn hytrach na chael ei wasgaru ar draws ein gwlad.
Yn 2015-16, yr oedd gwariant cyhoeddus ar drafnidiaeth yn £973 y pen yn Llundain o gymharu â £444 yng Nghymru. Petai lefel y gwariant yng Nghymru yr un fath ag yn Llundain, buasem yn derbyn £1.6 biliwn yn ychwanegol y flwyddyn i’w fuddsoddi. Mae’r anghydraddoldebau cyfoeth mor ddifrifol yn y wladwriaeth Brydeinig fel y dylid anfon swyddogion y Trysorlys i’r Almaen i ddysgu gan yr Almaenwyr sut y gwnaethant ymdrin ag anghydraddoldebau cyfoeth daearyddol yn dilyn cwymp wal Berlin.
(Translation) That is an entirely fair point. Members of our party will return to that point on apprenticeships in policing in this afternoon’s debate on the Floor of the House. The fundamental question we must ask is why Welsh taxpayers’ money should be spent on English projects while the British Government refuse to invest in Welsh projects, and renege on promises such as the electrification of the main line to Swansea. We have heard much about that already. If the British Government want to raise productivity in low-performing areas, they must redirect investment into those areas, rather than throwing everything at London.
It is widely agreed that sustained long-term investment in infrastructure is a prerequisite of economic success. In recent decades, a disproportionate amount of that investment has been made in London and the south-east of England, such as that on HS1, the Jubilee line, the Victoria line, Crossrail 1, Crossrail 2, the M25 and HS2. There has been no comparable investment in any other country or region of the UK. Why? It is due to a number of factors, including the Unionist parties’ London-centric approach. It may also be because of the economic models employed in evaluating such investments.
Given the concentration of employment in London, the short-term return on every pound invested in infrastructure is likely to be higher there than in other parts of the UK. That, in turn, leads to a spiral, in which ever-increasing amounts of investment in transport go to London, and the poorest regions spiral downwards. I believe there is a lesson there for us about the Welsh context. My hon. Friend the Member for Ceredigion made the point that Welsh Government investment is targeted more and more at Cardiff and the south-east, rather than being spread across the nation.
In 2015-16, identifiable public expenditure per capita was £973 in London, compared with £444 in Wales. If the level of spending in Wales were the same as it is in London, we would receive an extra £1.6 billion per annum for investment. The wealth inequalities are so important that Treasury officials should be sent to Germany to learn how it went about addressing the geographical wealth inequalities following the fall of the Berlin wall.
Essentially, Germany made a strategic decision to deal with the wealth inequalities in the reunified Germany, which was based on operating aids and tax incentives for the poorer regions, and the deliberate redirection of foreign direct investment into the poorer parts of the state.
Yn niffyg hynny, rhowch inni yng Nghymru yr arfau i fwrw ymlaen â’r dasg o adeiladu ein gwlad ein hunain, oherwydd dengys hanes nad yw aros am Lywodraethau San Steffan—o ba bynnag liw—i gyflawni pethau ar gyfer Cymru yn debyg o ddelio â’n problemau. Mae Cymru wedi dioddef nid yn unig o ddiffyg sylw a buddsoddiad gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol ond o flerwch llawer Llywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru a’u hanallu i gyflawni. Mae eu hymdrech ddiweddaraf i greu strategaeth economaidd yn rhyfeddol am ei bod heb unrhyw ddangosyddion perfformiad allweddol i fod yn ganllaw i’r sawl sydd i fod i weithredu’r strategaeth ac i alluogi’r gweddill ohonom i fesur pa mor llwyddiannus yw’r strategaeth.
Roedd y Gyllideb yn wan iawn. Ystyriwn y gwyliau treth stamp. Dywedodd Pwyllgor Dethol y Trysorlys, Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb y Gyllideb a’r Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid y bydd polisi’r Llywodraeth o roi gwyliau treth stamp, y buont mor uchel eu cloch yn ei gylch, yn gwthio prisiau tai i fyny o ryw 0.3%, gyda’r rhan fwyaf o’r cynnydd yn digwydd eleni. Yn y Gyllideb, neilltuwyd £3 biliwn yn ychwanegol i gynllunio am Brexit. Felly yn hytrach na £350 miliwn yr wythnos i’r gwasanaeth iechyd, yr ydym yn gwario yn agos i £58 miliwn yr wythnos ar fiwrocratiaid y wladwriaeth Brydeinig—ac nid ydynt hwy, hyd yn oed, fel petaent yn rhoi’r atebion mae’r Llywodraeth eisiau eu clywed i’r cwestiynau nad oeddent eisiau eu gofyn.
Er iddynt gynnig rhyw godiad pitw o £2.8 biliwn i’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn Lloegr dros y tair blynedd nesaf, mae hyn yn edrych fel rhywbeth rhy fach yn rhy hwyr, gan ystyried y storïau yn y wasg dros y misoedd diwethaf. Yng nghanol argyfwng y gaeaf, gwelwn effeithiau tan gyllido cronig yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yn Lloegr. Mae’n amlwg na allwn ymddiried yn y Ceidwadwyr i ofalu am y gwasanaeth iechyd yn Lloegr. Fodd bynnag, dyw record Llafur yng Nghymru ddim llawer gwell. Fel gyda’r rhan fwyaf o bethau, maent yn siarad digon o eiriau teg yn San Steffan, ond lle maent mewn grym, mae’r stori yn wahanol iawn.
Mae’r newidiadau i’r credyd cynhwysol—universal credit—a chynlluniau i wneud i ffwrdd â’r cyfnod cychwynnol o saith diwrnod i hawlwyr pan na fuasent wedi bod yn gymwys i gael budd-daliadau, a lleihau’r cyfnod aros presennol o chwech wythnos i’r rhan fwyaf o hawlwyr i bump wythnos, i’w groesawu. Ond mae hyn yn gyfystyr, mewn gwirionedd, a rhoi plaster ar goes sydd wedi torri. Mae’r ffordd ddi-drefn y cyflwynodd y Llywodraeth y credyd cynhwysol, a’r modd y gweinyddir cynlluniau lles yn ehangach, yn gywilyddus. Mae ymwneud â chwmnïau preifat mewn lles yn anfoesol ac yn anghyfrifol. Ni ddylai cwmnïau fel Capita elwa o drueni pobl eraill. Rydym yn croesawu’r dreth ar werthiannau a gynhyrchir yn y Deyrnas Gyfunol a fydd yn effeithio ar fusnesau digidol mawr fel Apple a Google. Ond unwaith eto, fodd bynnag, gwyddom fod y Torïaid yn gwrthwynebu llawer o newid yn strwythur ein sustem dreth, sydd ar hyn o bryd â thyllau dianc sy’n caniatáu osgoi gwerth £13 biliwn mewn trethi, a pheidio â thalu mwy fyth. Doedd dim ymrwymiad penodol i gynyddu cyflogau gweithwyr y sector cyhoeddus, y rhewyd eu cyflogau—ac a gapiwyd wedyn ar 1%—ers 2010. Diolch i chwyddiant, mae hyn yn golygu fod cyflogau nyrsys wedi eu torri mewn gwirionedd o 14%. Mae Cymru yn dal i dderbyn llai y pen na Llundain. Yn anffodus, mae’r blaid Lafur yn methu gwneud yn iawn am y cam yng Nghymru, er fod ganddynt y pwerau i wneud hyn, fel mae’r Llywodraeth SNP wedi llwyddo i wneud yn yr Alban.
Mae Cymru’n dal yn derbyn llai y pen na Llundain. Yma mae rhai o gymunedau tlotaf Ewrop ac mae toriadau enfawr mewn cyllid o ganlyniad i Brexit. Mae’n her sylweddol i sectorau allweddol ein economi. Ac eto, mae’r Canghellor yn dewis defnyddio ystadegau fyddai’n fwy addas i un o fysiau mawr coch yr Ysgrifennydd Tramor i honni y bydd cynnydd o £1.2 biliwn yng nghyllid cyhoeddus Cymru o Gyllideb yr hydref. Roedd yn ddiddorol iawn yn ystod cyflwyniad yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol: wnaeth e ddim defnyddio’r ffigwr hynny yn benodol yn ei araith, gan ei fod yn gwybod, fel dywedodd arweinydd Aelodau Seneddol Cymreig y blaid Lafur yma heddiw, bod dros hanner yr arian hwnnw yn fenthyciadau—neu fiscal transactions—y bydd yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru dalu yn ôl.
Doedd dim sôn am drydaneiddio’r rheilfyrdd, sydd wedi ei ganslo er yr addewid a roddwyd; dim sôn am y morlyn llanw ym Mae Abertawe, a dim golwg ohono yn y Gyllideb; a chyllid i wasanaethau datganoledig rhyw £750 miliwn yn is nag ar ddechrau’r ddegawd. Dyna record y Llywodraeth Brydeinig pan mae’n dod at Gymru. Mae stori’r Gyllideb hon yn hollol glir: nid yw San Steffan yn becso am Gymru.
(Translation) Failing that, give us in Wales the tools to move ahead with the job of building our own country. History demonstrates that waiting for Westminster Governments of whatever colour to deliver for Wales is unlikely to address our problems. Wales has suffered not only from the UK Government’s lack of attention and investment, but from successive Labour Governments’ ineptitude in Wales and their inability to deliver. The latest effort to create an economic strategy is remarkable in that the strategy is without any measurable key performance indicators to guide those who are to implement it and enable the rest of us to gauge how successful its implementation is.
Let me turn to some specific aspects of the Budget, which was very weak. The Treasury Committee, the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Institute for Fiscal Studies stated that the Government’s policy of a stamp duty holiday, which they were so vocal about, will push house prices up by 0.3%, and that most of the increase will come through this year. The Budget provided £3 billion to plan for Brexit. Rather than the £350 million for the health service that we were promised, we are spending almost £58 million per week on bureaucracy in the British state. The bureaucrats are not even providing the answers that the Government want to hear.
The minute increase of £2.8 billion for the NHS in Wales is too little, too late, given the stories in the press in the past few months. The winter crisis has shown the impact of the chronic underfunding of the NHS in England. It is clear that we cannot trust the Conservatives to take care of the NHS in England. However, Labour’s record in Wales is not much better. Labour Members speak warm words in Westminster, but when they are in power the story is very different indeed.
The changes to universal credit, including the plan to do away with the initial period of seven days in which claimants cannot receive payments and the reduction of the waiting time from six weeks to five weeks for most claimants, are to be welcomed, but they amount to putting a plaster on a broken leg. The chaotic way in which universal credit was introduced and the way that welfare is administered more generally is disgraceful. The involvement of private companies is immoral and irresponsible. Companies such as Capita should not benefit from the misery of others. We welcome the introduction of a tax on sales generated in the UK, which will affect companies such as Apple and Google, but we know that the Tories are opposed to making changes to our tax structure, which contains loopholes that allow for the avoidance of £13 billion of taxation.
The Budget contained no specific commitment to increase public sector pay, which has been frozen and capped at 1% since 2010. Thanks to inflation, that means that nurses have had a real-terms cut to their salaries of 14%. The Labour party, unfortunately, has not put that right in Wales, as the Scottish National party Government managed to do in Scotland, despite having the power to do so.
Wales still gets less per capita than London. It has some of the poorest communities in Europe, and there are huge cuts to budgets as a result of Brexit, and significant challenges to crucial sectors of our economy. Yet the Chancellor chooses to use statistics that would be more appropriate for one of the Foreign Secretary’s red buses, to claim an increase of £1.2 billion in the Welsh budget emerging from the autumn Budget. It was interesting that the Secretary of State did not use that figure during his opening remarks, because he knows that, as the shadow Secretary of State for Wales said here on behalf of Welsh Labour MPs, more than half of that is fiscal transactions that the Welsh Government will have to repay.
There was no mention of the electrification of rail, which has been cancelled, despite the pledge that was given; there was no talk of the tidal lagoon in Swansea Bay, and no sign of that in the Budget either; and funding for devolved services is lower by some £750 million than it was at the beginning of the decade. That is the record of the British Government with respect to Wales. The story of the Budget is clear: Westminster does not care about Wales.
The Chair
Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig.
(Translation) I call the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee.
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
Diolch yn fawr, Mr Owen, am fy ngalw heddiw. Rwyf eisiau siarad ychydig am waith y Pwyllgor. Yn amlwg, mae’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig yn gyfrifol am graffu ar bolisïau sy’n cael eu heffeithio gan y Gyllideb. Ers i mi ddechrau yn 2010, mae’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig wedi cymryd diddordeb mawr yn y sefyllfa gyda phont Hafren. Rydym wedi clywed tystiolaeth gref bod effaith y tollau yn ddrwg iawn ar yr economi yn ne Cymru. Rydym wedi profi fel Pwyllgor fod maint incwm o’r tollau yn llawer mwy na’r gost o gynnal a chadw, a gwnaethom alw ar y Llywodraeth i’w lleihau. Felly, roeddwn wrth fy modd gyda’r penderfyniad ar ôl y Gyllideb i gael gwared ohonynt yn gyfangwbl. Rwyf yn talu teyrnged i Ysgrifennydd Cymru am ei rhan yn y penderfyniad. Gobeithio y bydd hefyd yn derbyn, gyda llaw, bod y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig wedi cael effaith da ar y penderfyniad. Bydd y penderfyniad yn cael effaith arbennig o dda ar yr economi gyfan yn yr ardal, ond buasai’n well o lawer pe buasai Llywodraeth Llafur Cymru yn gallu dechrau’r gwaith ar ffordd osgoi’r M4.
Ar bwnc trafnidiaeth, mae’r Ysgrifennydd wedi tynnu sylw at y polisi yn ymwneud â’r rheilffyrdd. Mae’r Pwyllgor newydd orffen cymryd tystiolaeth ar y penderfyniad i drydanu’r rheilffordd rhwng Llundain a Chaerdydd. Rydym wedi clywed bod rhywun wedi gwneud camgymeriadau mawr a sylfaenol. Does neb wedi cyfri’r nifer o dwnelau na phontydd. Roedd rhaid iddynt newid y math o drenau a, hyn yn oed, y math o drydan. Felly, mae costau wedi mynd trwy’r to ac mae’r ffigyrau gwerth am arian yn ofnadwy. Mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud, pan ddechreuon ni’r ymholiad, gofynnais i’m hunan pam wnaeth y Llywodraeth ddim trydanu hyd at Abertawe. Ond yn y diwedd, roeddwn yn gofyn i’m hunan pam wnaeth y Llywodraeth ddechrau yn y lle cyntaf.
Mae amaeth yn rhywbeth sy’n bwysig i’r mwyafrif ohonom yng Nghymru. Mae Brexit yn agos at galon bob un ohonom hefyd. Felly, roedd yn naturiol bod y Pwyllgor wedi edrych ar effaith Brexit ar ffermwyr. Rwyf yn hollol hyderus y bydd y sector amaeth yn ffynnu yn yr hir dymor. Ond yn y byr dymor, pe buasen ni’n tynnu allan heb rhyw fath o gytundeb masnach, mae’n bosib bydd rhai sectorau amaeth yn gwynebu heriau. Mae llawer o gytuno am y ffordd ymlaen. Mae’r undebau wedi galw ar y Llywodraeth i gadw yr un lefel o daliadau ac mae’r Llywodraeth wedi cytuno. Mae’r undebau yn meddwl ei fod yn bwysig i gael rhyw fath o fframwaith taliadau ledled Prydain ac mae pawb yn cytuno gyda nhw, er bod angen i ni drefnu sut y bydd Seneddau ledled Prydain yn dweud eu dweud.
Y peth pwysig yw’r sefyllfa o ran mynediad i’r farchnad sengl. Pe buaswn yn gallu cael cytundeb, byddai gennym sefyllfa business as usual, ond pe buaswn ni’n tynnu allan ac yn masnachu o dan rheolau’r World Trade Organisation, bydd rhai sectorau’n gwynebu heriau, ac yn enwedig y sector cig oen yng Nghymru. Pe buasai hynny yn digwydd, mae’n rhaid i ni ail-edrych ar y sustem o daliadau a sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei ddosbarthu mewn ffordd deg.
Os yw hynny’n digwydd, dylem ail-edrych ar y system daliadau a sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei ddosbarthu yn deg. Dydw i ddim am fynd tu allan i gylch gwaith y Pwyllgor, ond rydw i’n hollol o blaid Brexit ac yn edrych ymlaen at gymryd yn ôl rheolaeth dros ein ffiniau, ein harian a’n deddfwriaeth.
Diolch i chi, Mr Owen, ac i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol am ganiatau i ni ddefnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg wrth galon San Steffan. Mae hyn yn nodweddiadol o’r parch mae’r plaid Geidwadol wastad wedi dangos tuag at yr iaith Gymraeg. Os gallaf gynnig gair o feirniadaeth adeiladol, yn fy marn i rydym ni yn gwario efallai gormod o arian ar gyfieithu dogfennau swyddogol mewn i’r Gymraeg—nid oes unrhywun yn mynd i’w darllen yn y Saesneg na’r Gymraeg. Rydym hefyd, yn ardaloedd fel Sir Fynwy, yn gwario llawer o bres ar ddysgu’r iaith i blant nad oes gennyt unrhyw ddiddordeb o gwbl ynddi.
Ar yr un pryd, mae llawer o grwpiau o oedolion yn ein cymunedau sydd eisiau dysgu’r iaith Gymraeg. Yn fy marn i, mae ychydig o eiriau o Gymraeg ar y strydoedd werth mwy na filoedd o eiriau o Gymraeg mewn dogfennau nad oes unrhywun yn mynd i’w darllen. Effallai dylem ail-edrych ar sut rydym yn gwario yr arian.
A gaf fi ddiolch i aelodau presennol a chyn-aelodau y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig? Pryd bynnag mae aelodau newydd yn ymuno, mae’n ymddangos i mi eu bod nhw’n cael eu harwyddo rhywle arall yn syth—gydag eithriadau, yn amlwg. Rydw i’n edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda nhw tra rydw i’n parhau fel Cadeirydd.
(Translation) Thank you for calling me, Mr Owen. I want to say a little about the work of the Committee. We are responsible for scrutinising policies affected by the Budget.
Since I took on my role in 2010 the Welsh Affairs Committee has taken a great interest in the situation regarding the Severn bridge. We have heard strong evidence that the impact of the tolls is detrimental to the economy of south Wales. The Committee has proved that the scale of the tolls is far greater than the cost of maintenance. We called on the Government to reduce them, so I was delighted with the decision taken post-Budget to abolish them entirely. I pay tribute to the Secretary of State for Wales for his part in it. I hope he will accept that the Committee had some impact on that decision, which will have a particularly positive effect on the whole economy of the area. However, things would be far better if the Welsh Labour Government could start work on the M4 relief road.
On the issue of transport, clearly the Secretary of State has highlighted rail policy, and the Committee has just concluded its evidence gathering on the decision to electrify the line between London and Cardiff. We have heard that fundamental mistakes were made. No one counted the bridges and tunnels; the types of trains, and even the type of electricity, had to be changed, and therefore costs have gone through the roof and value-for-money figures are dreadful. When I started the inquiry I asked myself why the Government did not electrify all the way to Swansea. Ultimately I asked myself why they had started the whole project in the first place.
Clearly, agriculture is an important issue for most of us in Wales, and Brexit is also an issue close to each of our hearts; so it was natural that the Committee decided to look at its impact on farmers. I am entirely confident that the agricultural sector will grow in the long term, but it is possible that in the short term, if we were to withdraw without some sort of trade deal, some agricultural sectors would face significant challenges. However, there is a great deal of agreement on the way forward. The unions have called on the Government to retain the same level of payments, and they have agreed. The unions believe that it is important to have some sort of cross-UK payments framework, and everyone seems to be in agreement, although we have to sort out how Parliaments across the UK will have their say on that.
What is important, of course, is the situation in relation to the single market, and access to the single market. If we could achieve agreement we would have some sort of business-as-usual scenario, but if we were to withdraw and trade under WTO regulations some sectors, clearly, would face challenges—particularly the lamb sector in Wales. If that were to be the case, we would have to review the system of payments and ensure that the funding is distributed fairly. Now I do not want to go beyond the remit of this debate, but I am entirely in favour of Brexit and I look forward to taking back control of our borders, our money and our legislation in this country.
May I thank you, Mr Owen, and the Secretary of State for allowing us to use the Welsh language at the heart of Westminster today? It is characteristic of the part that the Conservative party has played in the development of the Welsh language. If I may give a word of constructive criticism, in my view we are spending too much money translating official documents into Welsh when no one is going to read them in Welsh or in English. We spend a great deal of money in areas such as Monmouthshire teaching children who have no interest in the language. Simultaneously, there are many adult groups in our communities who do want to learn and use the Welsh language. In my view, a few words of Welsh on our streets are worth thousands of words in documents that are unlikely to be read. Perhaps we should review the way we spend money on the Welsh language.
I thank you, Mr Owen, and current and former members of the Welsh Affairs Committee. It appears to me that once someone actually joins the Committee they are signed up elsewhere, so I thank them and look forward to working with them while I continue as its Chair.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
Mae’n bleser arbennig cael annerch yn iaith y nefoedd am y tro cyntaf yma yn San Steffan. Mae hyn wir yn achlysur hanesyddol, gan ei fod nawr yn bosib cymryd rhan mewn dadl mewn iaith heblaw Saesneg am y tro cyntaf am 800 mlynedd. Mae hyn yn gwbl briodol, achos siaradwyd Cymraeg ar draws Prydain ymhell cyn i Senedd San Steffan a’r Saesneg fodoli. Tu allan i Gymru, nid oes dealltwriaeth bod enwau dinasoedd mor bell i’r gogledd a Chaeredin a Glasgow yn dod o’r iaith Gymraeg yn wreiddiol.
Roeddwn i hefyd eisiau siarad yn y Gymraeg heddiw fel teyrnged i’r diweddar Rhodri Morgan, fy rhagflaenydd fel Aelod Seneddol dros Orllewin Caerdydd a chyn-Brif Weinidog Cymru. Dyma’r Uwch Bwyllgor Cymreig cyntaf ers ei farwolaeth sydyn mis Mai diwethaf. Yn y 1990au roedd Rhodri yn arloeswr, yn gwthio i newid y rheolau fel bod yr iaith Gymraeg yn gallu cael ei defnyddio pan oedd yr Uwch Bwyllgor Cymreig yn cwrdd yng Nghymru. Petai ef yma heddiw, rydw i’n siwr y byddai ganddo ambell hanesyn difyr i’w ddweud wrthym yn y ddwy iaith.
Mae’r ddadl heddiw ynglyn â Chyllideb hydref diwethaf a’i heffaith ar Gymru. Wrth gwrs, mae ychydig o arian ychwanegol i Gymru o ganlyniad i’r fformiwla Barnett, ond y broblem sylfaenol yw’r diffug gweledigaeth pan mae angen uchelgais. Mae arnaf ofn mai dyma ganlyniad cael Prif Weinidog gwan a Changhellor sydd gyda chymaint o gyffro â thïm rygbi Lloegr ar ei waethaf. Rydw i’n gobeithio na fyddai’n dyfaru y geiriau yna ar ôl y gêm yn Twickenham dydd Sadwrn yma.
Cyn Cyllideb yr hydref, ysgrifennais at y Canghellor ynglyn â dyfodol ariannol S4C. Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mae S4C wedi wynebu torriadau ciaidd gan y Llywodraeth hon. Byddai mwy o dorriadau yn peryglu safon y gwasanaeth. Ysgrifennais at y Canghellor ar ôl clywed y gall S4C wynebu torriad o £9 miliwn dros y tair mlynedd nesaf. Gofynnais am addewid na fyddai'r fath doriad yn digwydd. Yn eu hymateb, dywedodd y Llywodraeth eu bod, a dwi'n dyfynnu
“wedi ymrwymo i ddyfodol darlledu Cymraeg ac i gefnogi'r gwasanaeth gwerthfawr mae S4C yn darparu.”
Er hyn, bron i ddeufis ar ôl y llythyr gan y Trysorlys, a bron i ddwy flynedd ers datgan yr adroddiad annibynol am S4C, mae’r adolygiad dal heb gael ei gyhoeddi. Mae hyn yn annerbyniol.
Rwyf yn galw ar y Llywodraeth unwaith eto i gyhoeddi'r adolygiad annibynol ac i gynnig cyllid teg i S4C. Mae arnaf ofn, Mr Owen, bod y celfyddydau yn cael eu gweld fel rhywbeth hawdd i'w torri. Mae'r Llywodraeth Lafur yng Nghymru yn ceisio amddiffyn Cymru rhag effeithiau llymder Torïaidd. Fodd bynnag, heb ddigon o arian, mae hon yn dasg anodd iawn. Mae S4C yn allweddol i'r dyfodol ac i gyrraedd y nod o gael miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg erbyn 2050.
Mae blynyddoedd o lymder wedi methu. Roedd pwrpas i fod i’r toriadau: i waredu'r diffyg ariannol erbyn 2015. Dywedodd y Llywodraeth y buasai’r llymder werth y boen. Buasai plentyn wedi ei eni yng Nghymru yn 2010 wedi gallu mynd i’r ysgol, gorffen yn y brifysgol a dechrau ei deulu ei hun erbyn i’r Llywodraeth gwblhau hyn. Dywedodd y Llywodraeth y buasai’r ddyled wedi mynd cyn i’r plentyn hwnnw ddechrau’r ysgol gynradd. Mae hyn yn fethiant llwyr oherwydd uniongrededd ariannol hen ffasiwn. Nid gormod o wario ar ysgolion ac ysbytai Cymru achosodd ein problemau economaidd yn 2010. Cawson nhw eu hachosi gan gamblo anghyfrifol gan fancwyr barus. Nid yr ateb oedd i dorri gwariant mewn ffordd mor giaidd fel ei fod yn anafu'r economi, ond i fuddsoddi—mewn ffyrdd, tai, ysgolion, colegau, prifysgolion, ysbytai, isadeiledd digidol ac egni glan—i greu cyfoeth yn y dyfodol
Felly, edrychwn mewn gobaith—os nad mewn disgwyliad —i’r Canghellor golli ei lysenw Spreadsheet Phil ac i ddatgan cynllun o adferiad cenedlaethol a fyddai’n helpu adeiladu Cymru’r dyfodol mewn partneriaeth gyda Llywodraeth Cymru a busnesau, llywodraeth leol a chymunedau ac yn y blaen. Efallai byddai'n dangos hyder drwy gefnogi prosiect y morlyn llanw yn Abertawe, neu roi gyllid ychwanegol i drydaneiddio'r brif linell drên i Abertawe, neu helpu i greu'r metro yn Nghaerdydd a'r Cymoedd, neu helpu i adeiladu'r tai sydd eu hangen i greu swyddi a chartrefi. Yn lle, yr hyn a gawsom oedd tincran gyda'r ymylon. Mae Cymru angen—ac yn haeddu —gwell gan y Llywodraeth hon a'r Canghellor hwn.
Rydym nawr yn gwynebu perygl Brexit, ac mae’n ddrwg gen i bod Cymru wedi pleidleisio dros adael, er na wnaeth Caerdydd hynny. Dyma fy apêl at Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru heddiw: peidiwch a bodloni â bod yn llefarydd dros uniongrededd ariannol; peidiwch a bodloni ag eistedd wrth fwrdd y Cabinet yn mwynhau’r olygfa. Brwydrwch, brwydrwch a brwydrwch unwaith eto dros fuddsoddiad yng Nghymru a dyfodol teg i bawb yng Nghymru.
(Translation) It is a pleasure, Mr Owen, to be able to address you in the language of heaven here in Westminster for the first time. This truly is a historic occasion as it is possible to speak in a debate in a language other than English for the first time in 800 years. This is entirely appropriate, since Welsh was spoken across Britain long before the Westminster Parliament or the English language existed. Outside Wales, it is not widely understood that the names of cities far north such as Edinburgh and Glasgow come from the Welsh language originally.
I also wanted to speak in Welsh today as a tribute to the late Rhodri Morgan, who was my predecessor as MP for Cardiff West and the former First Minister of Wales. This is the first Welsh Grand Committee meeting since his sudden death last May. In the ’90s, Rhodri was a pioneer in pushing to change the rules so that the Welsh language could be used when the Welsh Grand Committee met in Wales. I am sure that if he were here today he would have several amusing anecdotes to tell us in both languages.
This debate relates to last autumn’s Budget and its impact on Wales. There is some extra money for Wales as a result of the Barnett formula, but the fundamental problem is its lack of vision at a time when ambition is needed. That is the result of having a weak Prime Minister and a Chancellor with all the excitement of the English rugby team—I hope I will not regret that comment after next Saturday’s match at Twickenham.
Before the autumn Budget I wrote to the Chancellor regarding the future funding of S4C. Over recent years, S4C has faced brutal cuts from this Government, and any further cuts would endanger the quality of the service. I wrote to the Chancellor expressing concern after hearing that S4C could face cuts of up to £9 million over the next three years. I asked for a promise that no such cut would take place.
In their response, the Government said that they were
“committed to the future of Welsh language broadcasting and supporting the valuable service S4C provides”.
However, almost two months since that letter from the Treasury, and more than two years since the independent review of S4C was originally announced, the review has still not been published. That is unacceptable.
Today, I yet again call on the Government to publish the independent review and to offer S4C fair funding. I am afraid that, all too often, culture and the arts is seen as cuttable. The Welsh Labour Government are trying to shield Wales from the effects of Tory austerity. However, without enough money, that is a very difficult task. S4C is crucial to the future and to reaching the goal of 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050.
Years of austerity have failed. All of the cuts were meant to be for a purpose—to pay off the deficit by 2015. The Government said that the cuts would be worth the pain. A child born in Wales in 2010 could have gone to school, finished university and started a family of their own by the time the Government achieve that. They said the debt would be gone before that child started infant school. That is a complete failure, and it is due to old-fashioned financial orthodoxy.
The fact is that it was not too much spending on Welsh schools or Welsh hospitals that caused the economic problems of 2010. Rather, they were caused by irresponsible gambling by greedy bankers. The answer was not to cut spending so savagely as to hurt the economy, but rather to invest for wealth creation in the future—in roads and rail, housing, schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, digital infrastructure and clean energy. We therefore looked hopefully, if not in expectation, for the Chancellor to lose his “Spreadsheet Phil” soubriquet and to announce a plan for national renewal that would help to build the Wales of the future, in partnership with the Welsh Government and business, local government and communities and so forth.
Perhaps, we thought, the Chancellor would show confidence by announcing his support for the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon project, or by giving additional funding to electrify the main line to Swansea, or by helping to create the metro in Cardiff and the valleys, or by helping to build the houses we need to bring jobs and homes. Instead, we got tinkering around the edges.
Wales needs and deserves better from the Government and from the Chancellor. We now face the danger of Brexit, which I am sorry to say that a majority in Wales voted for, although not in Cardiff. My appeal to the Secretary of State for Wales is to not be content to be a mouthpiece for economic orthodoxy and to not be content to sit at the Cabinet table, admiring the view. Rather, fight, fight, and fight again for investment in Wales and for a fair future for everyone in Wales.
Mr David Jones
Mae’n bleser eich gweld chi yn y Gadair, Mr Owen. Mae’n dda hefyd bod Aelodau Seneddol yn cael y cyfle i siarad yn yr iaith Gymraeg yn San Steffan am y tro cyntaf, os dymunant wneud hynny. Yn siarad yn bersonnol, yn anffodus dydw i ddim yn teimlo’n ddigon cyfforddus yn yr iaith Gymraeg i wneud araeth drwy gyfrwng yr iaith, ond mae’n dda cael clywed cymaint o bobl yn siarad yr iaith bore yma.
(Translation) It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Owen, and it is good that Members of Parliament have the opportunity to speak the Welsh language in Westminster for the first time, if they so choose. Speaking personally, unfortunately I do not feel sufficiently comfortable in the Welsh language to make a speech, but it is good to see so many people speaking Welsh here this morning.
It is good to have the opportunity, after a short interval, to debate the impact of the Budget statement on Wales. For constituency reasons, I wish to focus on the impact of the Budget on north Wales, because I believe that two particular announcements in the Budget and the Red Book were of considerable importance. We must consider north Wales economically as part of the greater north-western economic region. Within the boundaries of north Wales, we have important economic elements. Wylfa nuclear power station will soon, we hope, be developed as Wylfa Newydd. We have two great universities at Wrexham Glyndŵr and Bangor, and we have important manufacturing hubs at places such as Abergele, St Asaph, Wrexham, and, of course, Deeside, which is one of the most important manufacturing areas in the United Kingdom.
Those economic areas are hard by a border that is political and administrative, but in reality completely invisible to those who live around it. The northern powerhouse initiative of the former Chancellor, George Osborne, is also of great importance to the people of north Wales. It was therefore good that, in his 2016 Budget, he announced the north Wales growth deal, which was intended to provide for north Wales access to some of the benefits of the northern powerhouse. We also saw under him the reopening of the Halton curve, and although that stretch of railway line is just one and a half miles long, its economic importance to north Wales cannot be overestimated. It will link north Wales with Merseyside and, importantly, with John Lennon airport. I am not at all embarrassed to give due credit to George Osborne, who I believe did a great amount for the north Wales economy.
Geraint Davies
Airbus is massively important for north Wales, Wales and the UK. Its chief executive has said that it is crucial that we have a soft Brexit as opposed to a hard Brexit, and that we remain part of the customs union, which George Osborne would agree with. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with him on that as well?
Mr Jones
I recognise the importance of Airbus not just to the regional economy of north Wales, but to the whole United Kingdom economy. It is the biggest manufacturing facility. The hon. Gentleman is entitled to his views on Brexit. I happen not to share them, and I believe that Airbus has a great future after Great Britain has left the European Union.
Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)
The right hon. Gentleman talked about an invisible border between England and Wales, and its importance to the regional economy. That is what we have seen in south Wales between Cardiff and Bristol and elsewhere. Currently, we have an invisible border between Wales and the Republic of Ireland. Does he agree that, if a hard border is introduced with customs checks and so on, it will be extremely detrimental to the economy in both north and south Wales? Ferry services have already been opened between Spain and Cork, specifically to circumvent the UK in the event of Brexit.
Mr Jones
The hon. Gentleman is aware of the Government’s position on the border with Ireland, and I will not be tempted into discussing Brexit when we are here to debate the Budget. This is an issue of importance to my constituency and north Wales, so I hope he will forgive me if I am not tempted to debate the pros and cons of Brexit on this occasion.
I was pleased to see the Chancellor announce in the Budget that he was pushing forward with the north Wales growth deal. That will be greatly welcomed by Members of all parties, not least by the all-party parliamentary group on Mersey Dee North Wales, which is very ably chaired by the hon. Member for Wrexham, and on which you are a very active participant, Mr Owen. The APPG has done a great amount to focus the attention not just of Westminster but the Welsh Assembly Government in Cardiff on the unique circumstances of north Wales and the reason why north Wales and the north-west of England need to be more closely bound together economically. That is why the two Administrations should work closely together.
I was very pleased to see that announcement in the Budget—it shows that the Chancellor is taking forward the good work of his predecessor. I must also pay tribute to the current responsible Welsh Minister, Ken Skates, who has been a breath of fresh air. Let me be blunt. There was a strong feeling in north Wales that his predecessor did not understand the needs of the region and, I am bound to say, cared little about it. Ken Skates has taken to his task extremely well. He works well with the United Kingdom Government. He is not tribal and, for that reason, is indeed a breath of fresh air.
David T. C. Davies
May I take the unusual step of also praising Ken Skates?
David T. C. Davies
I very much hope that is not held against him but I put on record that he is a man of principle.
Mr Jones
I agree wholeheartedly. He has been extremely enthusiastic and held meetings with Members of Parliament. I am very hopeful that, as long as he is the responsible Minister, we will see some advance in the north Wales growth deal. I look forward to progress in the months ahead. As deputy chairman of the all-party group, I can say that it will work closely with both the Wales Office and the Welsh Assembly Government.
Another announcement made in the Budget Red Book was on transport infrastructure in north Wales. The truth is that we are over-reliant on road transport in north Wales. The roads are becoming increasingly crowded and are in dire need of upgrade. Frankly, they are being used because the rail infrastructure in north Wales is so poor, having been neglected by successive Administrations over many years, and needs to be upgraded.
I was pleased to see the announcement of the long-overdue upgrade of the north Wales coastline, and the announcement that the Department for Transport is providing funds for examining the business case for the upgrade of the Wrexham to Bidston line. North Wales MPs will fully understand the importance of that infrastructure—the railway line links the two new enterprise zones at Deeside and Wirral Waters.
The problem with the line, as you will know, Mr Owen, is that it is not continuous all the way to Liverpool. To get to Liverpool from Wrexham or anywhere south of Bidston, it is necessary to change trains at Bidston. The long-term ambition of Merseyrail is electrification of the whole line, of which every north Wales MP would approve. The importance of that infrastructure is that, if we are to obtain the maximum synergy between the two enterprise zones at Wirral Waters and Deeside, we need to ensure that transport links are good and that they improve. There are about 1 million cross-border commutes in that part of north Wales every month. People are divided by a political border that, at the moment, fragments transport, planning and service provision, and acts as a drag on economic growth.
The local authorities and businesses in north Wales have started to address the issue. They have established the Mersey Dee Alliance, which does a tremendous amount of work in focusing attention on the needs of this important part of the national economy and ensuring that Governments pay due attention to them. I was pleased to be present at the meeting a few weeks ago between members of the Mersey Dee Alliance, the Growth Track 360 initiative and the Secretary of State for Transport, when they pressed the case for the improvement of that piece of infrastructure. It is clear that the Secretary of State for Transport listened carefully to what they had to say, because that meeting was followed very shortly by the Red Book announcement that there would be a concentration on the upgrade of the line.
I suggest to north Wales colleagues that they continue to support the work of the Mersey Dee Alliance and the Growth Track 360 initiative. We have the potential to double the size of the north Wales economy by 2015—the ambition of the alliance is to double it from £25 billion to £50 billion. That can be done if there is close cross-party working in this place, and close working between the United Kingdom Government and the Welsh Assembly Government. We are in something of a sweet spot. We have people in both Administrations who get it and who understand the needs of north Wales. The fact that the United Kingdom Government get it is underlined by the provision of the upgrades, transport improvements and studies in the Budget. We in north Wales have a lot to look forward to and I welcome those Budget announcements.
Susan Elan Jones
Mae’n bleser mawr i ddod i’r Pwyllgor hwn heddiw ac i allu defnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg.
(Translation) It is a great pleasure for me to come to this Committee today and to be able to use the Welsh language.
I will not surprise my colleagues too much by saying that I will make the bulk of my speech today in Welsh. I am conscious that I have something like two and a half minutes before this session breaks. I want to say a few words in English in case a producer on “Newsnight” is listening and wondering how we are coping with the hindrance of having a bilingual Welsh-English debate, or in case a journalist from The Guardian is chewing away somewhere at their lentil sandwich and wondering whether they should be writing another article about minority rights or documenting the plight of those to the west of Offa’s Dyke who have the temerity to want Wales to be a truly bilingual nation. I make the point in jest: I have nothing against “Newsnight”, The Guardian or even lentil sandwiches, but I do have something against the media and academic commentators, especially those who declare themselves on the left or centre left, when they speak up for every other minority language and culture and downright denigrate our Welsh language and culture. Our language and culture belongs to everyone. I say that as someone who comes from a family where some members speak Welsh and others do not. All I ask of those wonderful progressives who traipse our land, if they really do believe in equality and diversity, is for similar respect and that they treat us in that vein.
Mae symboliaeth ddwfn i’r ffaith y gallwn ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg yn y ddadl hon ac yn y pwyllgor hwn heddiw. Yn y lle hwn ganrifoedd maith yn ôl fe benderfynwyd na fyddai'r Gymraeg yn iaith swyddogol i Gymru. Ond yn y lle hwn hefyd, yn 1967, gyda’r diweddar Cledwyn Hughes fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, fe basiwyd y Ddeddf Iaith Gymraeg gyntaf. Yn y lle hwn hefyd, nid yn unig gallwn ddefnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg yn ein Pwyllgor, ond gallwn ddweud yn wir yn ein Huwch Bwyllgor Cymreig bod yr iaith Gymraeg yn un o’n hieithoedd swyddogol yn y lle hwn. Felly, mae’n ddiwrnod pwysig iawn i ni gyd. Mae gennym bwynt pwysig i’w ystyried: y Gyllideb. Dros Gymru a Phrydain gyfan, rwyf yn credu fod gennym rai o’r gweision cyhoeddus gorau yn y byd: y bobl sy’n dysgu yn ein hysgolion, y bobl sy’n gweithio yn ein hysbytai, ein diffoddwyr tân a’n heddlu, y bobl sy’n gweithio yn ein lluoedd arfog, ac eraill hefyd.
(Translation) There is deep symbolism, of course, to the fact that I can use the Welsh language in this debate and this Committee. In this place, so many years ago, it was decided that the Welsh language would not be the official language for Wales. In 1967, the first Welsh Language Act was passed when the late Cledwyn Hughes was the Secretary of State for Wales. Not only can we use the Welsh language, but we can truly say that Welsh is one of the Welsh Grand Committee’s official languages. It is therefore a very important day for us all.
We have an important topic before us today: the Budget. Throughout Wales and all of the UK, we have some of the best public servants in the world—the people who are teaching in our schools, the people who are working in our hospitals, our firefighters, our police officers, the people working in our armed forces and others.
Draft Social Security (Contributions) (Rates, Limits and Thresholds Amendments and National Insurance Funds Payments) Regulations 2018
Draft Tax Credits and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating etc. Regulations 2018
(6 years, 2 months ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mel Stride)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Social Security (Contributions) (Rates, Limits and Thresholds Amendments and National Insurance Funds Payments) Regulations 2018.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to consider the draft Tax Credits and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating etc. Regulations 2018.
Mel Stride
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David.
Let me begin by addressing the draft Tax Credits and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating etc. Regulations. The Government are committed to a welfare system that is fair to the taxpayer while maintaining our protection for the most vulnerable in society. As in previous years, we are legislating to ensure that the guardian’s allowance and the disability elements of child tax credit and working tax credit increase in line with the consumer prices index, which stood at 3% in the year to September 2017. The draft regulations will maintain the level of support for disabled children in receipt of child tax credit, disabled workers in receipt of working tax credit and children whose parents are absent or deceased. Increases to these rates are part of the Government’s wider commitment to supporting the most vulnerable in our society.
The draft Social Security (Contributions) (Rates, Limits and Thresholds Amendments and National Insurance Funds Payments) Regulations will make changes to the rates, limits and thresholds for national insurance contributions and make provision for a Treasury grant to be paid into the national insurance fund if required. These changes will take effect on 6 April 2018. Re-rating will increase the national insurance contribution rates, limits and thresholds in line with inflation to protect taxpayers from rising prices. Before I deal with the substance of the draft regulations, I draw the Committee’s attention to their fiscal significance: they will enable the collection of £130 billion in national insurance contributions, which will work directly to support our national health service, pensioners and people who have been bereaved.
Let me outline the changes to employee and employer NICs, commonly referred to as class 1 NICs. The lower earnings limit of £6,000 for class 1 NICs—the level of earnings at which employees start to gain access to contributory benefits, including the state pension, employment and support allowance and jobseeker’s allowance—will rise in line with inflation to £116 a week. Employees will have to pay class 1 NICs at 12%. The primary threshold of £8,424—the level of earnings at which class 1 NICs have to be paid—will rise with inflation to £162 a week. The upper earnings limit is the level at which employees start to pay class 1 NICs at 2% on all earnings above a certain income tax threshold; the Government have committed to aligning this threshold with the UK’s higher income tax rate of £46,350. Employers have to pay national insurance at a rate of 13.8% above an earnings level called a secondary threshold. This threshold will rise with inflation to £162 a week, as it has been aligned with the primary threshold for employees since April 2017.
The Government are committed to reducing the cost to businesses of employing young apprentices and young people. The level at which employers of people under 21 and of apprentices under 25 start to pay employers’ contributions will rise from £866 to £892 a week.
The self-employed pay class 2, 3 and 4 NICs. Class 2 NICs provide access to contributory benefits for the self-employed, such as the state pension. The weekly rate of class 2 NICs to be paid will rise in line with inflation to £2.95, a flat rate for all the self-employed. The small profits threshold—the level of profits at which the self-employed have to pay class 2 NICs—will rise with inflation to £6,205 a year. The self-employed currently pay class 4 NICs at a rate of 9% on profits above £8,044 a year; that limit will now rise with inflation to £8,424. They also pay 2% above what is known as an upper profits limit; that limit will rise from £45,000 to £46,350 a year. The rate for class 3 contributions, which allow people to voluntarily top up their national insurance record, allowing access to contributory benefits, will increase in line with inflation from £14.25 to £14.65 a week.
The regulations also make provision for a Treasury grant of up to 5% of forecast annual benefit expenditure to be paid into the national insurance fund, if needed, during 2018-19. A similar provision will be made in respect of the Northern Ireland national insurance fund.
I trust that that is a useful overview of the changes that we are making to bring rates of support and contributions to the Exchequer into line with inflation.
Anneliese Dodds (Oxford East) (Lab/Co-op)
It is a pleasure to serve on the Committee with you in the Chair today, Sir David.
I am grateful to the Minister for what was indeed a useful overview of the changes. As he explained, the first set makes it possible to increase certain tax credit and child benefit rates as well as the guardian’s allowance rate. Those changes were prefigured in the Budget, as were the changes to national insurance contributions that we have been talking about—the annual re-rating of NIC rates, limits and thresholds—and provision for a Treasury grant to be paid into the national insurance fund.
I want to speak briefly about both sets of regulations. As to NICs, given the impact of inflation on incomes, which has been compounded by an exceptionally long period of sluggish wage growth, we support moves to ensure that NIC thresholds are increased in line with changes in the consumer prices index. Of course thresholds for the best-off people will be increasing by much more than inflation, with the Government’s commitment to increase the top band threshold eventually to £50,000. We feel that that is a move—along with many other Government changes to the tax system, and particularly to income tax—that should not be prioritised now. However, on their own terms the threshold increases in the regulations, at least for NICs, appear sensible.
The same applies to the increases by CPI in the Tax Credits and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating etc. Regulations 2018. As the Minister explained, those cover the disabled worker and severe disability elements of working tax credit, the disabled and severely disabled child elements of child tax credit, and the guardian’s allowance. Of course, something of great concern is what the Minister did not talk about: the elements that are not being uprated, which is the majority of them.
The regulations fail to cover any other elements of working-age social security support that come under the aegis of the Treasury and HMRC. Given that those elements have been frozen at their 2015-16 rates until 2020, the practical impact of the freeze is predicted to be a 5% fall in the value of social security support for some of the poorest families in Britain by 2020. Coupled with additional cuts to tax credits and the lower levels of support available through universal credit, that is pushing large numbers of people in Britain into poverty—especially children.
The Joseph Rowntree Foundation has noted that the social security freeze is the
“single biggest policy driver behind rising poverty, hitting families in and out of work”.
The freeze has also been criticised by the End Child Poverty coalition. I was disturbed to hear from the coalition that now almost a third of children in my constituency are growing up in poverty. The Institute for Fiscal Studies also recently noted that the Government’s changes to social security, including the freeze, have left many families ill-prepared for another economic slowdown, should there be one.
The Minister suggested that those changes somehow, overall, protect the most vulnerable in society, and I find that difficult to understand. I normally find him persuasive on many issues, but on that matter I am afraid we cannot concur, because the most vulnerable in society are unfortunately being badly let down. In the circumstances, the regulations should be condemned for what they leave out—adequate support for struggling families to make ends meet. Often the people concerned are not those seeking work; they are among the growing number who are in work but living in poverty.
Mel Stride
I thank the hon. Lady for her observations, and especially for her broad support for the measures that we are bringing forward today.
On the issue of the thresholds and the potential benefit to higher earners as a consequence of upratings in the future, of course at this stage we are not at the £50,000 limit, so that is not a debate for today. A second point I want to make, on the issue of looking after the most vulnerable, is that we are doing a number of things from a Treasury perspective outside the benefits system, which were announced at the Budget, including a national living wage increase of 4.4%. That is well above inflation, something that the hon. Lady understandably referred to. That will begin in April. Of course, the increase in the personal allowance will take even more people out of tax, as well as providing a tax break for more than 30 million people.
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
The saving from the social security benefits freeze was estimated to be £3.5 billion, but because of increased inflation it is now estimated, according to the Library figures that we have obtained, to be £5.2 billion. Does the Minister think that the Government need to continue the benefit freeze under those terms?
Mel Stride
When looking at the impact of inflation on potential savings such as the hon. Gentleman describes, we have to bear in mind that many costs are going up for the Government as a consequence of increased levels of inflation. It is not simply something that can be looked at in isolation.
Anneliese Dodds
I am grateful to the Minister for giving way; he is being very generous. Is he aware that analysis by groups such as the Women’s Budget Group has shown that any benefits, particularly for the worst-off families, that might have come through the increase in the personal allowance and the national living wage are cancelled out by the social security changes? When those changes are taken into account, people’s incomes have been falling. Furthermore, the very worst-off families often do not benefit from the changes, because they are simply unable to accrue enough hours to reach the threshold in the first place.
Mel Stride
As I have been explaining, the national living wage increases and the rise in the personal allowance are clearly elements of this. We are also now rolling out universal credit, which will increasingly make sure that work pays. We believe that that is the best way out of poverty and the best way to improve living standards. To make some broader points, as a responsible Government we need to balance the costs of benefits with the compelling need to look after and support the most vulnerable in our society. I argue that that is why today’s measures effectively exempt from the freeze the categories of individuals whom we are discussing today, who are indeed among the most vulnerable in our society.
Between 2008 and 2015, jobseeker’s allowance rose by about 21%, child tax credits by about 33%, but earnings by only about 12%. The total spend on benefits in 1980-81 was £30 billion in real terms. By 2014-15, that had risen to £96 billion. We have to place this debate within the context of that overall fiscal framework.
Anneliese Dodds
I am very happy to talk about how the overall balance of benefits has changed over time. The most significant difference between the 1980s and now, when we look at the overall balance of social security, is the gigantic increase in housing benefit that has occurred over the period, particularly over the last seven years. We have seen a radical increase in the cost of housing, which has left many families struggling when their wages have not been increasing. That is the major difference.
If we were to look at a pie chart of social security in those two periods, housing benefit has driven most of the change—certainly not increases in support for unemployed people, where the amount of support that people get in relation to wages has fallen precipitously. It has fallen more in the UK than in most comparable countries. I am very pleased to put the debate in that context; it is important that we do so, and remind ourselves that changes in the overall burden of social security payments have often been the result of a failure to deal with structural problems, such as the arguably overheated housing market that we have at the moment.
The Minister mentioned increases in different tax credits and JSA. I do not believe that they have been above inflation. Certainly, unemployment support has gone down substantially. The element of JSA that is linked to contribution-based national insurance has substantially decreased over time. It is simply not the case that we are moving towards a more contributory system. Most analysts would suggest that we have actually had a residualisation over recent years.
The Chair
Order. Interventions should be short. I think that was about three interventions.
Mel Stride
Thank you, Sir David. We might be in danger of discussing matters that diverge quite far from the instruments themselves. To deal with the point raised by the hon. Lady, one of the most telling statistics in all of this is that in 2013—the latest year for which these figures were available—this country had the largest percentage of GDP spend on family benefits, including child benefits, of any country in the OECD. In the context of the economic challenges that we face, we need to be fiscally prudent at the same time as growing our economy, as we are. As the hon. Lady will know, we are near record levels of employment. We have the lowest level of unemployment for over 40 years, we have reduced the deficit now by three-quarters, and we go into the coming period after the Budget on the back of 19 consecutive months of growth. So there are many things that are driving up in the direction of improving living standards.
Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
The Minister will also be aware that our record on helping the vulnerable is something to be proud of. The Minister has talked about reducing income inequality but we must also remember that many foundations—including the Joseph Rowntree Foundation—suggest that we have reduced relative poverty as well. There is always more to be done, but together with very low unemployment we can be proud of the fact that we have helped the vulnerable in society, whilst accepting that there is still more to be done.
Mel Stride
My hon. Friend is entirely right, and he will know that prior to the very recent figures, which still show that the level of income inequality is the lowest since 2010, it was the lowest in 30 years.
Mel Stride
I know that the hon. Lady is itching to tell me about it excluding housing and raise various points, but it is a recognised measure within the Gini coefficient. I do believe that this Government have a record of which they can be truly proud. There is more to be done, but I think we can all agree on these measures, to the extent that they are relieving measures for particular categories of individuals whom we all, on both sides of the Committee, seek to support. I hope that on that basis we can approve these measures.
Question put and agreed to.
DRAFT TAX CREDITS AND GUARDIAN’S ALLOWANCE UP-RATING ETC. REGULATIONS 2018
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the draft Tax Credits and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating etc. Regulations 2018.—(Mel Stride.)
Draft Representation of the People (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 2018
(6 years, 2 months ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Representation of the People (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 2018.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson. The purpose of the draft regulations is to make registering to vote anonymously more accessible for those who need it most. The regulations provide for changes to the parliamentary and local electoral registers in Northern Ireland, and those changes would apply to electors at parliamentary, Assembly and local government elections. It is important that the changes are applied UK-wide, and similar legislation for England and Wales and for Scotland is being debated and considered in Committee today.
As the local government electoral registers are a devolved matter in Scotland, the Scottish Government are proposing similar changes in the Scottish Parliament. Yesterday marked 100 years since legislation was introduced to give some women the right to vote in the UK. That was the first step to equal franchise in the UK, but the journey to maximise electoral registration continues. For some people, the fear of having their name and address on the electoral register is a barrier to registering to vote and engaging in democracy. It seems fitting today to debate changes that make it easier for vulnerable individuals to exercise their democratic rights, which were passionately fought for 100 years ago.
Anonymous registration was first introduced in Great Britain by the Electoral Administration Act 2006, but it was not extended at that time to Northern Ireland. Instead, section 1 of the Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2006 gave the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland the power to make equivalent provision for Northern Ireland by Order in Council under section 84 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998—something with which you are deeply familiar, Mr Hanson.
Chloe Smith
Very good—we are in good hands today, Mr Hanson, with your expertise in the Chair.
The Secretary of State’s power to make provision for anonymous registration in Northern Ireland was used for the first time to make the Anonymous Registration (Northern Ireland) Order 2014. That extended many of the anonymous registration provisions in place for England, Wales and Scotland, and it is linked to a series of statutory instruments which amend the Representation of the People (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2008 and which, taken together, implement the system of anonymous registration in Northern Ireland that applies to parliamentary, Assembly and local elections.
The scheme protects those whose safety would be at risk if their name or address appeared on the electoral register—for example, victims of harassment or stalking, as well as some witnesses in criminal court cases. It is not available to those who simply want to keep their name and address private. Someone can register to vote anonymously if they can show that their safety, or the safety of someone else in their household, would be at risk if the electoral register contained their name and address. This is known as the safety test. An applicant must provide evidence that demonstrates that they meet the safety test to the Electoral Office for Northern Ireland. The evidence accepted is prescribed in legislation as either a live court order, or an injunction from a set list of orders and injunctions, or an attestation, which is a signed statement certifying that the applicant’s safety would be at risk if the register contained their name or address. It can be made only by professions listed in the legislation as qualifying officers, such as a superintendent of police or a director of social services.
About two years ago, Mehala Osborne, with the support of Women’s Aid, started a petition to make anonymous registration more accessible for those who need it most. As a result, the Government announced in September 2016 that they would look closely at whether the current system of registering anonymously to vote could be improved, to make it easier for survivors of domestic abuse to register safely to vote. The Government consulted on potential changes to improve the accessibility of the anonymous registration scheme with domestic abuse charities, the electoral community, including the chief electoral officer for Northern Ireland, bodies representing potential attesters and others. The responses that the Government received were broadly positive, and the Women’s Aid Federation Northern Ireland has been particularly keen to see the provisions implemented. I pay tribute to my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore), for all his hard work and passion to help make the changes a reality. The regulations make sensible changes that make the scheme more accessible for those who need it most.
Turning to the detail of the changes, the draft regulations update the list of court orders and injunctions that can be provided to the chief electoral officer as evidence, to demonstrate that an individual’s safety would be at risk. As evidence, applicants would be able to use female genital mutilation protection orders, made under the Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003. They would also be able to use domestic violence protection orders, made under the Crime and Security Act 2010 or when they are brought into force in Northern Ireland, the Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 2015. Those are new and relevant orders that were not in place when the anonymous registration scheme came into force.
The draft regulations will broaden who can provide attestations that an individual’s safety would be at risk. The seniority required for an attestation from a police officer would be lowered from the rank of superintendent to the rank of inspector. That will make it easier for applicants to obtain an attestation. Inspectors are, of course, frequently in contact with survivors and well qualified to assess the level of risk to an individual’s safety. Medical practitioners registered with the General Medical Council, and nurses and midwives registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council, would also be able to act as attesters. Again, those professionals are frequently in contact with survivors of domestic abuse and qualified to assess the level of risk to an individual’s safety.
Managers of refuges for those escaping domestic violence will now be able to act as attesters. That is important. All individuals who are resident in a refuge would then have easy access to an individual who can attest to the fact that their safety is at risk. Refuge managers are specialists in their field and well placed to attest whether an individual’s safety is at risk. They are in direct and sustained contact with domestic abuse survivors and are approachable, which helps to increase accessibility for those seeking to use the scheme.
The changes do not place a statutory duty on anybody to provide an attestation. However, the regulations widen the group of individuals qualified to attest, should they choose to do so. Overall, the changes ensure that the evidence required to register to vote anonymously reflects the experiences of survivors of domestic abuse. As I mentioned, the Government have consulted on the draft regulations with the Electoral Commission, the chief electoral officer for Northern Ireland, representative bodies of newly qualified attesters and Women’s Aid. There is general agreement that the changes being brought forward are desirable to ensure that those whose safety would be at risk, if their names and addresses appeared on the register, are able to engage in our democratic system.
I would like to dwell on a few comments made within that consultation. We heard from Women’s Aid that they strongly welcomed the changes made by the statutory instrument, saying that,
“the proposed new measures send out a clear message to all survivors of domestic abuse: that their voices matter, and their participation in politics matters”.
I think we should all agree with that. The draft regulations make sensible and proportionate changes to the wider registration system, making it easier to register to vote without a name and address appearing on the register. That may be a small thing, but it makes a big difference. It means the freedom to live ones life and cast one’s vote to make a choice.
As Mehala Osborne said:
“Survivors in the future will not be denied their voice and democratic right to vote.”
Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)
It is 100 years since the Representation of the People Act 1918. As we all know, that was a crucial step forward in the emancipation and empowerment of women. Yesterday we marked the centenary of property-owning women over the age of 30 and some university graduates winning the right to vote. We are reminded that the fight for equality is always a journey and this is part of the next step forward in that equality for women.
That was just one of many steps for women and, 100 years later, the struggle for equality continues. There are still far too few women in Parliament and women still face discrimination in the workplace and in everyday life. As the Minister outlined, the purpose of this legislation is to give survivors of domestic abuse in Northern Ireland a voice in our democracy. The issue of domestic abuse concerns us all. Many of us will know somebody who has experienced some form of domestic violence. National figures show that one in four women experience domestic violence at some point in their life, and every week two women are killed by a current or former partner. The draft regulations are desperately needed.
Sadly, although we are here today to discuss changes to the system of anonymous voter registration, I cannot ignore the wider context of the Government’s cuts agenda and its impact on women. As someone who was for many years a trustee of a Women’s Aid organisation, I have seen at first hand the amazing work that women’s refuges do to turn around women’s lives, and often the lives of their children too. However, women’s refuges have seen their budgets slashed by nearly a quarter over the past seven years and, despite the Prime Minister’s pledge to boost funding for women escaping violent partners, that is a continued blight up and down the country.
Turning specifically to anonymous voter registration, it cannot be right that survivors who have faced the physical, emotional and psychological impacts from abuse are then silenced in our democratic process. Why? Because it is too dangerous for their names and addresses to be listed on the electoral register and too difficult, at the moment, for them to register anonymously.
As the Minister explained, under existing legislation, domestic abuse survivors must provide a court order or have their application supported by a senior independent witness, such as a high-ranking police officer, in order to appear anonymously on the electoral roll. These proposals will add doctors, nurses and refuge managers to the list of people who can be an attester and will lower the rank of police officers, from superintendent to inspector, authorised to perform that function.
It is vital that every eligible voter is able to participate in our democracy, which is why the Opposition very much welcome the proposals. I put on the record my thanks to Women’s Aid, which has been at the forefront of shaping and co-ordinating responses to domestic violence and abuse for more than 40 years, including this legislation. However, it is clear that the measures do not go far enough. Survivors still have to re-register to vote anonymously year on year, and those who move home often have to repeat their applications. For many survivors, anonymity is a matter of life or death, and women are often on the run from domestic abuse for the rest of their life.
We support Women’s Aid, which has called on the Government to use the Domestic Violence and Abuse Bill to pass legislative changes to make survivors’ anonymous voter registration valid indefinitely, so that they can vote in safety for life. Will the Minister outline the Government’s position on that proposal? What conversations has the Minister had with her colleagues in the Home Office about it? I recognise that she is new to her post, so that might take some time.
Chloe Smith
I welcome the opportunity to put on record the technical reason why the draft regulations go as far as they do and not as far as some have publicly argued for. There are a number of reasons why the draft regulations do what they do, which is to extend the evidence basis, but not the amount of time for which a person can be on the register.
First—I suspect, technically, most importantly, although rather boringly—the provisions on yearly renewal are in primary legislation and cannot be addressed through secondary legislation. That is the straightforward reason why the draft regulations do what they do. I think the Committee will be aware that primary legislation space is somewhat limited in Parliament at present, and while I hope I have given the Committee a firm understanding of how important these matters are, we thought it better to do what we can in secondary legislation, rather than pinning everything on a piece of primary legislation.
John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con)
I want to push my hon. Friend a little bit more, if I may. Is she saying that, in principle, if the Government were able to find the time—I appreciate that time is scarce at the moment—they would be interested in pursuing changes to primary legislation in order to make renewals a simpler, more up to date and altogether more streamlined process?
Chloe Smith
My hon. Friend kindly leads me on to the other two reasons I wanted to offer, which are matters of principle. First, when this scheme was originally introduced, Parliament’s intention was to support individuals with a current risk, rather than necessarily an historical risk. That is the difference between a one-year registration, which ought to be renewable, versus an indefinite registration. That is the question of principle that we are dealing with: should this be about those who face a current risk, as opposed to some form of historical risk?
I note that there is difference between the three statutory instruments we are debating today—I do not know whether other hon. Members beyond the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood and me will be reconvening to debate the draft regulations for Scotland, and for England and Wales, on top of these for Northern Ireland—but it is the case that attestation in Northern Ireland lasts for five years, so our discussion is coming on to matters related to England, Wales and Scotland, which we will debate later in the day.
To complete the set with a third reason why we think that yearly renewal is appropriate in those other parts of the United Kingdom, electoral registration officers have a very important duty to maintain the accuracy of their registers, so there is an argument that if and when electors change their address the register needs to be updated. That is another argument for the concept of yearly renewal—or, renewal at all and, for the other parts of the UK, yearly-in this policy area. I have no doubt that we will return to the issue in the Committees on the other related draft regulations, because it is more appropriate to the other parts of the United Kingdom.
Let me say a word about refuges more broadly, because the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood raised the issue. In Committee, we all share the desire to see refuges working well to support victims. My colleagues in the Home Office are looking very closely at the matter. In Northern Ireland, refuges are funded by the Northern Ireland Department for Communities, through the Supporting People programme, administered by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. I will therefore go into no further detail now, because it is a devolved matter. Suffice it to say that my colleagues, including the Home Secretary—who addressed the House yesterday on a range of issues to do with this year’s celebration, which we ought to be having, of women and their right to vote—are well aware of the need to support refuges well.
In closing off—I hope—the Committee’s questions, I note that the draft regulations apply to men as well. We talk principally perhaps about women when we think about refuges, but let us not forget that men too can be victims of domestic abuse. It is important to put on the record the fact that the regulations will be in place for all survivors of domestic abuse. With that, I hope that I have answered the questions that have been asked, and I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.
Question put and agreed to.
Draft Representation of the People (Scotland) (Amendment) regulations 2018
(6 years, 2 months ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Representation of the People (Scotland) (Amendment) Regulations 2018.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McDonagh, and to continue to serve alongside any hon. Members who are joining me for this marathon consideration of three statutory instruments in one day.
The purpose of the regulations is to make registering to vote anonymously for UK parliamentary elections in Scotland more accessible for those who need it most. They will also strengthen the integrity of the electoral register, and improve the registration system for electors. To give a little context, the draft regulations amend the Representation of the People (Scotland) Regulations 2001. The changes will cover the parliamentary electoral registers. As local government electoral registers are a devolved matter in Scotland, the Scottish Government are proposing similar changes in the Scottish Parliament. It is important that the changes are applied UK-wide, and similar legislation for England and Wales and Northern Ireland has been, and will be, debated and considered in Committee today.
Yesterday marked 100 years since legislation was passed to give some women the right to vote in the UK. That was the first step to the equal franchise in the UK, but the journey to maximise electoral registration continues.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
This may be completely irrelevant, but you will be the judge of that, Ms McDonagh. Does the Minister know that the Americans gave such emancipation some two and half years after Britain? I thought that the Committee should note that.
The Chair
As Chair, I will be generous and broad in my interpretation of what is in the scope of the legislation.
Chloe Smith
Thank you, Ms McDonagh, and I thank my hon. Friend for reminding us that we may be seen as a pioneer. Let us hope that today we can all come together regarding this piece of the electoral system, and agree that we should press on further, which is what we are doing today.
Today’s legislation is about the fear of having one’s name and address appear on the electoral register, and how that can be a barrier to registering to vote, and therefore engaging in democracy. It seems fitting this week to debate changes that make it easier for vulnerable individuals to exercise their democratic rights. Anonymous registration was first introduced in Great Britain by the Electoral Administration Act 2006, which amended the Representation of the People Act 1983 and provided for the overall structure of the scheme. The scheme protects those whose safety would be at risk if their name or address appeared on the electoral register—for example, victims of harassment or stalking, and some witnesses in criminal court cases. An applicant must provide their local electoral registration officer with evidence that demonstrates that their safety would be at risk. The evidence accepted is prescribed in legislation as either a live court order or injunction from a set list of orders and injunctions, or what is known as an attestation. That is a signed statement certifying that the applicant’s safety would be at risk if the register contained their name or address. It can be made only by professionals listed as qualifying officers, such as a police superintendent or a director of social services.
About two years ago, Mehala Osborne, with the support of Women’s Aid, started a petition to make anonymous registration more accessible for those who need it most. As a result, the Government announced in September 2016 that they would look closely at whether the current system of anonymously registering could be improved to make it easier. The Government consulted on potential changes to improve the accessibility of the scheme with domestic abuse charities, the electoral community, bodies representing potential attesters and others. The responses that the Government received were broadly positive. I pay tribute to my predecessor as Minister for the Constitution, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore), for his hard work and passion in making the changes a reality. The instruments make sensible changes, which make the anonymous registration scheme more accessible for those who need it most.
Turning to the detail, the draft regulations update the list of court orders and injunctions that can be provided to an ERO—an electoral registration officer—as evidence to demonstrate that an individual’s safety would be at risk if their name or address appeared on the register. As evidence, applicants will be able to use domestic violence protection orders made under the Crime and Security Act 2010 or the Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 2015, once that is in force. They will also be able to use female genital mutilation protection orders made under the Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003. Those are new and relevant orders that have been created since the anonymous registration scheme came into force.
The draft regulations will also broaden who can provide attestations that the individual’s safety would be at risk. The required seniority for a police officer will be lowered from the rank of superintendent to the rank of inspector, which will make it easier for applicants to obtain an attestation. Police inspectors are frequently in contact with survivors and will be well qualified to assess the level of risk to an individual’s safety. Medical practitioners registered with the General Medical Council and nurses and midwives registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council will also be able to act as attesters. Those professionals are again frequently in contact with survivors and are qualified to assess the level of risk.
Managers of refuges for those escaping domestic violence will also be able to act as attesters. Anybody who has been supported by a refuge would then have easy access to somebody who can provide the attestation. Refuge managers are specialists in their field and we think they are well placed to make the attestation. They are also in direct and sustained contact with domestic abuse survivors, making them approachable for those looking to use the scheme.
The changes make sure that the evidence required to register to vote anonymously is more reflective of the experiences of survivors of abuse. The Government have consulted on the draft regulations with the Electoral Commission, the Scottish associations of administrators, representative bodies of the newly qualified attesters and Women’s Aid. There is general agreement that the changes being brought forward are desirable to ensure the safety of those who would be most at risk, and to help them engage in our democratic system. Women’s Aid strongly welcomes the changes that the statutory instrument makes, saying that the proposed new measures send out a clear message to all survivors of domestic abuse that their voice and their participation in politics matter.
The statutory instrument also makes further changes to the wider registration system, with the aim of improving electoral registration processes for the citizen and making it easier and more effective for EROs to administer. They also seek to improve the integrity of the system and the accuracy of the electoral register, by addressing two recommendations made in Sir Eric Pickles’s review on electoral fraud. In addition to Sir Eric’s recommendations, the incremental changes have been identified through extensive consultation with the electoral community—those on the coalface running elections and services. They put the citizen first and will help EROs to provide modern and efficient registration services.
The first proposed change addresses recommendation 14 in the Pickles review. It adds a statement to the paper application form that states that persons who are not eligible electors are ineligible to register to vote and that, in relation to nationality, applicants may be required to provide additional information, or otherwise checks may be carried out by the ERO against Government records. The change seeks to enhance the deterrent against applicants providing false information in respect of their nationality. It reminds the applicant that an ERO can and will seek further information to corroborate the information provided, where they may have concerns.
The second proposed change addresses recommendation 12 of the Pickles review. It adds a statement to the paper application form that informs applicants that their application may be delayed if they do not provide previous addresses at which they have ceased to reside within 12 months of the date of their application. That change aims to minimise the number of incomplete applications being submitted on paper forms. The provision of an applicant’s previous address is one of only two ways that an out-of-date and redundant entry can be removed from the register with only one source of evidence, and thus it serves as an important way to maintain the accuracy of the electoral register.
The third proposed change expands the number of sources of information that can be used by EROs to remove deceased electors from the electoral register. Where they have not been able to obtain a death certificate or a registrar notice, they will be permitted to use one of four further sources of evidence to support the decision to remove a deceased elector: information from a close relative, a canvass form, a care home manager or other local records. I hope the Committee agrees that using such information is an appropriate response to avoid unnecessary distress for the relatives of any deceased elector. It balances the need for evidence with the sensitivity of providing a service to the citizen that they would expect at such a difficult time, and it again helps EROs maintain the accuracy of the register.
Detailed consideration has been given as to whether that could increase the risk of fraud as part of the registration system, but we think that will be minimal. EROs are already required to use current sources of information before using the information sources permitted under the regulations. Also, EROs must be satisfied that the information they have received is accurate, and where they have any concerns at all they remain able to seek additional sources of information to support their decision.
The final proposed change to the registration system streamlines and simplifies correspondence that EROs are required to send to electors. These changes are designed to reduce the cost of the registration system and provide greater discretion to EROs to tailor their approach based on the needs of electors. This saving will be achieved by requiring additional information to be included in a first notification to an elector that their entry on the register is under review. That then allows the sending of a second notification, of the outcome of the review, to become discretionary. The regulations also make sending a notification of changes to an elector’s open register preference discretionary. That streamlines the process and brings it in line with other public and private services.
In summary, the draft regulations make sensible and proportionate changes to the wider registration system, in addition to this important change, in this centenary year, of being able to support survivors of domestic abuse. Making it easier for someone to register without their name and address appearing on the electoral register may appear a small thing, but it makes a big difference. It means the freedom to live their life, to cast their vote and to make their choice. As Mehala Osborne said:
“Survivors in the future will not be denied their voice and democratic right to vote.”
I commend the regulations to the Committee.
Laura Smith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to be here to serve under your chairwomanship, Ms McDonagh. This is my first time doing anything like this on the shadow Front Bench, so please bear with me.
The Representation of the People Act 1918, as we all know, was a crucial step forward for the empowerment of women. Yesterday, as we marked the centenary of property-owning women over 30 winning the right to vote, we were reminded that the fight for equality is indeed a journey. That was just one of many steps for women, and 100 years later the struggle for equality continues. There are still too few women in Parliament, and women still face discrimination in the workplace and in everyday life. It has been a slight shock for me, coming into this kind of working environment after working, as a primary school teacher, with wonderful women for a long time, to see the discrimination that still exists in some workplaces.
As the Minister outlined, the purpose of this legislation is to give survivors of domestic abuse in Scotland a voice in our democracy. Domestic abuse is an issue that concerns all of us. I am sure that many of us here today will know somebody who has experienced some form of domestic violence. National figures show that one in four women will experience domestic violence at some point in her life, and two women every week are killed by a current or former partner. Sadly, although we are here to discuss changes to the system of anonymous voter registration, we cannot ignore the wider context of this Government’s austerity agenda. Women’s refuges have seen their budgets slashed by nearly a quarter over the past seven years, despite the Prime Minister’s pledge to boost funding for women escaping violent partners.
Turning to anonymous voter registration, it cannot be right that survivors who have faced the physical, emotional and psychological impacts of abuse are then also silenced as participants in our democratic process. Why does that happen? Because it is too dangerous for their name and address to be listed on the electoral register, and it is too difficult for them to register anonymously.
As the Minister explained, under existing legislation domestic abuse survivors must provide a court order or have their application supported by a senior independent witness, such as a high-ranking police officer, to appear anonymously on the electoral register. The proposals outlined today will add doctors, nurses and refuge managers to the list of people who can act as an attester and will lower the rank of police officer authorised to perform the function from superintendent to inspector.
It is vital that every eligible voter is able to participate in our democracy, and that is why the Opposition very much welcome the proposals. I thank Women’s Aid, which has been at the forefront of shaping and co-ordinating responses to domestic violence and abuse for more than 40 years, including this very legislation. However, it is clear that the measures do not go far enough. Survivors will still have to re-register to vote anonymously year on year, and those who move home will have to repeat their application. For many survivors, anonymity is a matter of life and death, and often women are on the run from domestic abuse for the rest of their lives. We support Women’s Aid, which has been calling on the Government to use the Domestic Violence and Abuse Bill to pass legislative changes to make survivors’ anonymous voter registration valid and indefinite, so that they can vote in safety for life. Will the Minister outline the Government’s position on that proposal? What discussions has she had with her colleagues in the Home Office?
The Minister has also outlined proposals to expand the data sources available to registration officers to enable them to remove entries from the register as a result of death. That is a sensible measure, but it is disappointing that the Government are focusing their energy on removing people from the electoral roll while refusing to use the same data-sharing techniques to address the millions of voters who are missing from the electoral register. The Opposition are committed to taking radical steps to increase voter registration and turnout. That is why we have called on the Government multiple times to examine the use of Government data to automatically place eligible electors on the electoral roll.
In conclusion, 2018 cannot be a year for complacency. As we celebrate the last 100 years of democratic change, we should be looking for progressive and radical solutions to address this country’s democratic deficit.
The Chair
Am I missing anyone else who wants to make a contribution? I call Mr Sheppard.
Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP)
I rise briefly to associate the third party with the contextual remarks of the Minister and the shadow Minister that recognised not only the advances we have made to our democracy in the past century, but that there is always more to do. For our part, we welcome the proposals and wish to offer no opposition to them. They are a valuable step in the right direction, and I know that the Scottish Government agree with them and will be making regulations of their own to be effective on the same day, so that the totality of the electorate and elections are included in the advance.
Chloe Smith
Thank you, Ms McDonagh. First, I thank both the hon. Members who have spoken for their support and that of their parties for the measures. I am delighted that we all agree on the importance of doing this and are united in getting it done. I will answer a few of the points raised by the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich. I welcome her to her place, and I look forward to working with her and the hon. Member for Edinburgh East on many issues as time goes on.
I want to make a general point on refuge funding, which is where the hon. Lady began her remarks. It is important to note that responsibility for refuges is devolved for Scotland. For England and Wales, I can confirm that the Government have put aside a £20 million fund to support refuges. That will create more than 2,200 bed spaces and support more than 19,000 victims. That is important and valuable in the context of the concerns that she expressed. She will know that the most recent consultation on how refuges can be supported through the housing system has only recently closed and the Government will be looking at all the evidence submitted.
The hon. Lady asked whether the regulations could go further, in allowing for indefinite registration instead of the need to renew annually. I want to put on record the Government’s view, because that fair question has been asked outside as well as inside this place. The Government are, of course, mindful of the long-term risks that can be faced by domestic abuse survivors and I understand that in certain cases it might be difficult to return to completing paperwork every year.
I will offer three thoughts on the reasons behind our approach. The first is technical and most applicable. Provisions on yearly renewal are in primary legislation and could not be tackled by the regulations before us. The Committee will recognise that work on primary legislation is at a premium in this Parliament so, regrettably, we have had to focus on what can be achieved through secondary legislation.
Secondly, I think the intention of Parliament at the time of the scheme’s introduction was to support individuals with a current risk, as opposed to an historical one. That is a point of principle rather than practicality. To be able to attest or provide evidence more regularly, or at all, as opposed to indefinitely, is important because it points to the existence of a current risk to an individual, rather than one in the past that might no longer be current.
The third reason is that EROs have a duty to maintain the accuracy of their registers. That is an underpinning duty within the democratic system. To lack an opportunity to check people with anonymous registration could make that duty more difficult. Yearly renewal supports EROs’ ability to keep accurate records of who resides where, even if that information is anonymous when the public part is issued.
The final point raised by the hon. Lady concerned deceased electors. She thought it disappointing that we were focusing on removing rather than adding electors. I will say to her gently that we are talking about dead electors. It is important for the accuracy of the register to remove deceased electors; I hope the Committee agrees. The Government want to see accurate and complete registers.
Laura Smith
I just want to say that in my speech and notes it definitely states that I agree with removing deceased people. My point was about putting more people on the register. I would like to put that on the record.
Chloe Smith
I was confident that was the case. I am confident that the Committee is in full agreement that we want EROs to maintain an accurate and complete register. To explain those terms, the second, completeness, is what the hon. Lady is talking about. All those who are eligible to register are registered. That is the other of the twin aims of electoral registration.
I am delighted to report that accuracy and completeness are both at high levels—higher than when I previously held this role. We have seen those go up since introducing individual registration. I also point the hon. Lady to a document published just before Christmas by my predecessor about further democratic engagement and the ways in which we can ensure that those who belong to groups that might traditionally have been under-registered, such as some disabled people who, for various reasons, might have found it difficult to tackle the registration system, are able to take part.
We are setting out ways to welcome everybody who is eligible to register on to the registration system, which is very important. In that spirit, I return to the measures before us, which are about accuracy and completeness. Overall, it is about a sense of justice that those who have faced abuse should not lose their right to vote and we are making it easier for them to register.
Question put and agreed to.