Autumn Budget as it Relates to Wales (Morning sitting)

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2018 General Committees

[Alun Cairns]

I am not sure that nuclear is the comparison I would make as a previous long-term decision, but that is an interesting contribution none the less.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Buasai’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn annog Prif Weinidog y Cynulliad i ddod o flaen y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig i esbonio’r cynnig a wnaeth i’r Llywodraeth? Ar hyn o bryd, dydy e ddim yn barod i ddod a dydw i ddim yn deall pam.

(Translation) Would the Secretary of State encourage the First Minister to appear before the Welsh Affairs Committee to explain the proposals he has made to the Government? At the moment, he is not willing to come, and I do not understand why.

[Alun Cairns]

Rwyf yn ddiolchgar i fy Nghyfaill anrhydeddus am godi’r pwynt. Yn amlwg, dydw i ddim yn gwybod pam nad yw Prif Weinidog y Cynulliad yn fodlon rhoi tystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Dethol. Yn amlwg, byddai hynny’n cryfhau’r sylwadau sydd wedi eu gwneud a, hefyd, yn rhoi mwy o fanylion ynglŷn â’r gefnogaeth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn fodlon rhoi. Yn amlwg, rwyf yn awyddus i gydweithio’n agos gyda Llywodraeth y Cynulliad, fel yr ydym wedi gwneud gyda chymaint o wahanol gynlluniau dros yr amser rwyf wedi bod yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol a’r rhai sydd wedi bod o’m blaen.

(Translation) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that point. I do not know why the First Minister of the National Assembly is not willing to give evidence before the Select Committee. Obviously, that would strengthen the comments that have been made, and would give further clarity about the support that the Welsh Government are willing to give. I am eager to collaborate with the Welsh Government, as we have done on many schemes during the period that I have been Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Diolch yn fawr, Mr Owen, am fy ngalw heddiw. Rwyf eisiau siarad ychydig am waith y Pwyllgor. Yn amlwg, mae’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig yn gyfrifol am graffu ar bolisïau sy’n cael eu heffeithio gan y Gyllideb. Ers i mi ddechrau yn 2010, mae’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig wedi cymryd diddordeb mawr yn y sefyllfa gyda phont Hafren. Rydym wedi clywed tystiolaeth gref bod effaith y tollau yn ddrwg iawn ar yr economi yn ne Cymru. Rydym wedi profi fel Pwyllgor fod maint incwm o’r tollau yn llawer mwy na’r gost o gynnal a chadw, a gwnaethom alw ar y Llywodraeth i’w lleihau. Felly, roeddwn wrth fy modd gyda’r penderfyniad ar ôl y Gyllideb i gael gwared ohonynt yn gyfangwbl. Rwyf yn talu teyrnged i Ysgrifennydd Cymru am ei rhan yn y penderfyniad. Gobeithio y bydd hefyd yn derbyn, gyda llaw, bod y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig wedi cael effaith da ar y penderfyniad. Bydd y penderfyniad yn cael effaith arbennig o dda ar yr economi gyfan yn yr ardal, ond buasai’n well o lawer pe buasai Llywodraeth Llafur Cymru yn gallu dechrau’r gwaith ar ffordd osgoi’r M4.

Ar bwnc trafnidiaeth, mae’r Ysgrifennydd wedi tynnu sylw at y polisi yn ymwneud â’r rheilffyrdd. Mae’r Pwyllgor newydd orffen cymryd tystiolaeth ar y penderfyniad i drydanu’r rheilffordd rhwng Llundain a Chaerdydd. Rydym wedi clywed bod rhywun wedi gwneud camgymeriadau mawr a sylfaenol. Does neb wedi cyfri’r nifer o dwnelau na phontydd. Roedd rhaid iddynt newid y math o drenau a, hyn yn oed, y math o drydan. Felly, mae costau wedi mynd trwy’r to ac mae’r ffigyrau gwerth am arian yn ofnadwy. Mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud, pan ddechreuon ni’r ymholiad, gofynnais i’m hunan pam wnaeth y Llywodraeth ddim trydanu hyd at Abertawe. Ond yn y diwedd, roeddwn yn gofyn i’m hunan pam wnaeth y Llywodraeth ddechrau yn y lle cyntaf.

Mae amaeth yn rhywbeth sy’n bwysig i’r mwyafrif ohonom yng Nghymru. Mae Brexit yn agos at galon bob un ohonom hefyd. Felly, roedd yn naturiol bod y Pwyllgor wedi edrych ar effaith Brexit ar ffermwyr. Rwyf yn hollol hyderus y bydd y sector amaeth yn ffynnu yn yr hir dymor. Ond yn y byr dymor, pe buasen ni’n tynnu allan heb rhyw fath o gytundeb masnach, mae’n bosib bydd rhai sectorau amaeth yn gwynebu heriau. Mae llawer o gytuno am y ffordd ymlaen. Mae’r undebau wedi galw ar y Llywodraeth i gadw yr un lefel o daliadau ac mae’r Llywodraeth wedi cytuno. Mae’r undebau yn meddwl ei fod yn bwysig i gael rhyw fath o fframwaith taliadau ledled Prydain ac mae pawb yn cytuno gyda nhw, er bod angen i ni drefnu sut y bydd Seneddau ledled Prydain yn dweud eu dweud.

Y peth pwysig yw’r sefyllfa o ran mynediad i’r farchnad sengl. Pe buaswn yn gallu cael cytundeb, byddai gennym sefyllfa business as usual, ond pe buaswn ni’n tynnu allan ac yn masnachu o dan rheolau’r World Trade Organisation, bydd rhai sectorau’n gwynebu heriau, ac yn enwedig y sector cig oen yng Nghymru. Pe buasai hynny yn digwydd, mae’n rhaid i ni ail-edrych ar y sustem o daliadau a sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei ddosbarthu mewn ffordd deg.

Os yw hynny’n digwydd, dylem ail-edrych ar y system daliadau a sicrhau bod yr arian yn cael ei ddosbarthu yn deg. Dydw i ddim am fynd tu allan i gylch gwaith y Pwyllgor, ond rydw i’n hollol o blaid Brexit ac yn edrych ymlaen at gymryd yn ôl rheolaeth dros ein ffiniau, ein harian a’n deddfwriaeth.

Diolch i chi, Mr Owen, ac i’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol am ganiatau i ni ddefnyddio’r iaith Gymraeg wrth galon San Steffan. Mae hyn yn nodweddiadol o’r parch mae’r plaid Geidwadol wastad wedi dangos tuag at yr iaith Gymraeg. Os gallaf gynnig gair o feirniadaeth adeiladol, yn fy marn i rydym ni yn gwario efallai gormod o arian ar gyfieithu dogfennau swyddogol mewn i’r Gymraeg—nid oes unrhywun yn mynd i’w darllen yn y Saesneg na’r Gymraeg. Rydym hefyd, yn ardaloedd fel Sir Fynwy, yn gwario llawer o bres ar ddysgu’r iaith i blant nad oes gennyt unrhyw ddiddordeb o gwbl ynddi.

Ar yr un pryd, mae llawer o grwpiau o oedolion yn ein cymunedau sydd eisiau dysgu’r iaith Gymraeg. Yn fy marn i, mae ychydig o eiriau o Gymraeg ar y strydoedd werth mwy na filoedd o eiriau o Gymraeg mewn dogfennau nad oes unrhywun yn mynd i’w darllen. Effallai dylem ail-edrych ar sut rydym yn gwario yr arian.

A gaf fi ddiolch i aelodau presennol a chyn-aelodau y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig? Pryd bynnag mae aelodau newydd yn ymuno, mae’n ymddangos i mi eu bod nhw’n cael eu harwyddo rhywle arall yn syth—gydag eithriadau, yn amlwg. Rydw i’n edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda nhw tra rydw i’n parhau fel Cadeirydd.

(Translation) Thank you for calling me, Mr Owen. I want to say a little about the work of the Committee. We are responsible for scrutinising policies affected by the Budget.

Since I took on my role in 2010 the Welsh Affairs Committee has taken a great interest in the situation regarding the Severn bridge. We have heard strong evidence that the impact of the tolls is detrimental to the economy of south Wales. The Committee has proved that the scale of the tolls is far greater than the cost of maintenance. We called on the Government to reduce them, so I was delighted with the decision taken post-Budget to abolish them entirely. I pay tribute to the Secretary of State for Wales for his part in it. I hope he will accept that the Committee had some impact on that decision, which will have a particularly positive effect on the whole economy of the area. However, things would be far better if the Welsh Labour Government could start work on the M4 relief road.

On the issue of transport, clearly the Secretary of State has highlighted rail policy, and the Committee has just concluded its evidence gathering on the decision to electrify the line between London and Cardiff. We have heard that fundamental mistakes were made. No one counted the bridges and tunnels; the types of trains, and even the type of electricity, had to be changed, and therefore costs have gone through the roof and value-for-money figures are dreadful. When I started the inquiry I asked myself why the Government did not electrify all the way to Swansea. Ultimately I asked myself why they had started the whole project in the first place.

Clearly, agriculture is an important issue for most of us in Wales, and Brexit is also an issue close to each of our hearts; so it was natural that the Committee decided to look at its impact on farmers. I am entirely confident that the agricultural sector will grow in the long term, but it is possible that in the short term, if we were to withdraw without some sort of trade deal, some agricultural sectors would face significant challenges. However, there is a great deal of agreement on the way forward. The unions have called on the Government to retain the same level of payments, and they have agreed. The unions believe that it is important to have some sort of cross-UK payments framework, and everyone seems to be in agreement, although we have to sort out how Parliaments across the UK will have their say on that.

What is important, of course, is the situation in relation to the single market, and access to the single market. If we could achieve agreement we would have some sort of business-as-usual scenario, but if we were to withdraw and trade under WTO regulations some sectors, clearly, would face challenges—particularly the lamb sector in Wales. If that were to be the case, we would have to review the system of payments and ensure that the funding is distributed fairly. Now I do not want to go beyond the remit of this debate, but I am entirely in favour of Brexit and I look forward to taking back control of our borders, our money and our legislation in this country.

May I thank you, Mr Owen, and the Secretary of State for allowing us to use the Welsh language at the heart of Westminster today? It is characteristic of the part that the Conservative party has played in the development of the Welsh language. If I may give a word of constructive criticism, in my view we are spending too much money translating official documents into Welsh when no one is going to read them in Welsh or in English. We spend a great deal of money in areas such as Monmouthshire teaching children who have no interest in the language. Simultaneously, there are many adult groups in our communities who do want to learn and use the Welsh language. In my view, a few words of Welsh on our streets are worth thousands of words in documents that are unlikely to be read. Perhaps we should review the way we spend money on the Welsh language.

I thank you, Mr Owen, and current and former members of the Welsh Affairs Committee. It appears to me that once someone actually joins the Committee they are signed up elsewhere, so I thank them and look forward to working with them while I continue as its Chair.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman is aware of the Government’s position on the border with Ireland, and I will not be tempted into discussing Brexit when we are here to debate the Budget. This is an issue of importance to my constituency and north Wales, so I hope he will forgive me if I am not tempted to debate the pros and cons of Brexit on this occasion.

I was pleased to see the Chancellor announce in the Budget that he was pushing forward with the north Wales growth deal. That will be greatly welcomed by Members of all parties, not least by the all-party parliamentary group on Mersey Dee North Wales, which is very ably chaired by the hon. Member for Wrexham, and on which you are a very active participant, Mr Owen. The APPG has done a great amount to focus the attention not just of Westminster but the Welsh Assembly Government in Cardiff on the unique circumstances of north Wales and the reason why north Wales and the north-west of England need to be more closely bound together economically. That is why the two Administrations should work closely together.

I was very pleased to see that announcement in the Budget—it shows that the Chancellor is taking forward the good work of his predecessor. I must also pay tribute to the current responsible Welsh Minister, Ken Skates, who has been a breath of fresh air. Let me be blunt. There was a strong feeling in north Wales that his predecessor did not understand the needs of the region and, I am bound to say, cared little about it. Ken Skates has taken to his task extremely well. He works well with the United Kingdom Government. He is not tribal and, for that reason, is indeed a breath of fresh air.

[David T. C. Davies]

May I take the unusual step of also praising Ken Skates?

[Kevin Brennan]

Are you trying to finish him off?

[David T. C. Davies]

I very much hope that is not held against him but I put on record that he is a man of principle.

[Mr Jones]

I agree wholeheartedly. He has been extremely enthusiastic and held meetings with Members of Parliament. I am very hopeful that, as long as he is the responsible Minister, we will see some advance in the north Wales growth deal. I look forward to progress in the months ahead. As deputy chairman of the all-party group, I can say that it will work closely with both the Wales Office and the Welsh Assembly Government.

Another announcement made in the Budget Red Book was on transport infrastructure in north Wales. The truth is that we are over-reliant on road transport in north Wales. The roads are becoming increasingly crowded and are in dire need of upgrade. Frankly, they are being used because the rail infrastructure in north Wales is so poor, having been neglected by successive Administrations over many years, and needs to be upgraded.

I was pleased to see the announcement of the long-overdue upgrade of the north Wales coastline, and the announcement that the Department for Transport is providing funds for examining the business case for the upgrade of the Wrexham to Bidston line. North Wales MPs will fully understand the importance of that infrastructure—the railway line links the two new enterprise zones at Deeside and Wirral Waters.

The problem with the line, as you will know, Mr Owen, is that it is not continuous all the way to Liverpool. To get to Liverpool from Wrexham or anywhere south of Bidston, it is necessary to change trains at Bidston. The long-term ambition of Merseyrail is electrification of the whole line, of which every north Wales MP would approve. The importance of that infrastructure is that, if we are to obtain the maximum synergy between the two enterprise zones at Wirral Waters and Deeside, we need to ensure that transport links are good and that they improve. There are about 1 million cross-border commutes in that part of north Wales every month. People are divided by a political border that, at the moment, fragments transport, planning and service provision, and acts as a drag on economic growth.

The local authorities and businesses in north Wales have started to address the issue. They have established the Mersey Dee Alliance, which does a tremendous amount of work in focusing attention on the needs of this important part of the national economy and ensuring that Governments pay due attention to them. I was pleased to be present at the meeting a few weeks ago between members of the Mersey Dee Alliance, the Growth Track 360 initiative and the Secretary of State for Transport, when they pressed the case for the improvement of that piece of infrastructure. It is clear that the Secretary of State for Transport listened carefully to what they had to say, because that meeting was followed very shortly by the Red Book announcement that there would be a concentration on the upgrade of the line.

I suggest to north Wales colleagues that they continue to support the work of the Mersey Dee Alliance and the Growth Track 360 initiative. We have the potential to double the size of the north Wales economy by 2015—the ambition of the alliance is to double it from £25 billion to £50 billion. That can be done if there is close cross-party working in this place, and close working between the United Kingdom Government and the Welsh Assembly Government. We are in something of a sweet spot. We have people in both Administrations who get it and who understand the needs of north Wales. The fact that the United Kingdom Government get it is underlined by the provision of the upgrades, transport improvements and studies in the Budget. We in north Wales have a lot to look forward to and I welcome those Budget announcements.