Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Gethins Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray]

Mr Speaker, you will not be surprised to hear that I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. [Interruption.] Absolutely shocked! The Government inherited not just a fiscal crisis from the previous Government, but an industrial one too. We need more high-quality jobs in Scotland. Between our industrial strategy, our plan to get Scotland working and the employment rights legislation, we will help to deliver that. Do not forget that the SNP Government said that zero-hours contracts were a “positive destination” for work. Our plans to make work pay will have a bigger positive benefit in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. That is the difference in having Scottish Labour MPs on the Government Benches.

[Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)]

I join the Secretary of State for Scotland in welcoming the shadow Secretary of State for Scotland to his place. I congratulate him on his appointment. It does make it difficult sometimes to tell the two of them apart, that being said, especially on days like today. Today, the Scottish Government will continue to protect the most vulnerable in society from the excesses of Westminster cuts. Instead of Tory cuts, it will be Labour cuts to winter fuel payments. Does the Secretary of State agree with the cut to the winter fuel allowance?

[Ian Murray]

Mr Speaker, I am sorry for such a short response to the hon. Gentleman, but there are 4.9 billion reasons why that question is rubbish.

[Stephen Gethins]

I have to say I am not surprised. There is huge confusion in the Labour party about the winter fuel allowance. The Scottish Government are doing something about it; the UK Government are not. The Secretary of State did not even know the number of pensioners who would be affected by the winter fuel cut. Labour is now distancing itself from Labour. Vote Labour to stop Labour—is that the message his party is sending out, or should voters just vote for the party that is actually doing something about it?

[Ian Murray]

I think what the hon. Gentleman is tending to forget is that the winter fuel payment in Scotland is devolved. It was the SNP Scottish Government who decided to means-test it as well. If it was not for the £4.9 billion extra delivered by our Labour Chancellor at this Dispatch Box to end austerity, which the Scottish Government will spend today, they would not be able to make any decisions whatsoever.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Gethins Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Martin McCluskey]

We will take absolutely no lessons on employment rights from the Conservative party, which left us with a £22 billion black hole in the public finances that we are having to pick up. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor will address that in a moment.

[Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)]

I join the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Blair McDougall) in congratulating the hon. Member for High Peak (Jon Pearce) on the birth of his daughter. On the demographic challenge, just before the election the Scottish Labour deputy leader said

“there is something we can do to incentivise”

more people to come to Scotland. In terms of employment in Scotland, have the Secretary of State and colleagues sat down with the Home Office to discuss encouraging more migration?

[Martin McCluskey]

The Government will work closely with the Migration Advisory Committee. We welcome the contribution that migrants make to the economy, but we will take no lessons from a party that has consistently said that the positive destination for people in Scotland is a zero-hours contract, and whose Members sat on their hands last night when we dealt with the Great British Energy Bill.

[Stephen Gethins]

Let me try to challenge the hon. Member. In a spirit of collegiality, the UK Government have committed to working with the Scottish Government. The hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Torcuil Crichton), who is in his place, has said:

“When it comes to immigration policy one size does not fit all. It shouldn’t be beyond us to devise ways to attract more people to work and settle here.”

Will the Minister confirm that the Scottish and UK Governments should work together, and will he commit to a meeting between the Governments so that we can take forward the idea of more migration to Scotland, which the Labour party committed to and we committed to, and business is crying out for?

[Martin McCluskey]

We have committed to Scottish representation on the Migration Advisory Committee, which would go a long way to dealing with these issues, but it is for the Scottish Government to do things like build houses in areas where we need more migration in order to encourage people to come to live in Scotland.

Points of Order

Stephen Gethins Excerpts

Monday 14th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

Further to those points of order, Mr Speaker. I am grateful to you for allowing this time to pay tribute to Alex Salmond; he absolutely deserves it and it is great that we are doing it.

The leader of the SNP, the right hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn), spoke very well and very movingly about Alex’s contribution to life, which I think is very generous. The SNP clearly treats its former leaders with great respect, and I think that is a good idea. [Laughter.] I also thank the right hon. Member for Goole and Pocklington (Sir David Davis) for what he said. Alex did go through the most appalling stress and personal pressure, and no doubt he had moments of self-doubt and real concern about the whole thing. The fact that the right hon. Member spoke so well about that really is a testament to what Alex was made of.

During his time here, Alex was a good friend to lots of us. He always opposed wars, and he always stood up for civil liberties and justice. His strength of character, in Scotland and in the wider world, made the SNP the party it is and the formidable force it became. He made the arguments for Scottish independence cogent, realistic and understandable.

We should remember that Alex Salmond lived life to the full and spoke to the full. He was totally involved in absolutely everything he did, and was an amazing and very friendly force around this place. I, for one, will miss him. I send my condolences to Moira, his wider family, and all his colleagues in both Alba and the SNP in Scotland.

[Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)]

Further to those points of order, Mr Speaker. “Consequential” and “impactful” are words that we have heard about Alec over the past few days, from across the political spectrum and beyond. Which of us would not want such an epitaph, regardless of our politics?

Alec was also impactful on so many of us on an individual basis. I got dragged back into politics on more than one occasion, having unwisely tried to pursue a career elsewhere. Obviously, his desire for independence and to remove, as he would see it, this unnecessary layer of government was at the heart of his politics, but he was a profoundly impactful MP in this place. He knew the Standing Orders inside out, which could make it tricky for Ministers, opponents and Speakers from time to time. That hard work meant that he was—frustratingly, from my experience—always one step ahead. It was impossible to spend time with Alec and not learn something—absolutely impossible.

My hon. Friend the Member for Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber (Brendan O’Hara) was right to talk about Moira Salmond as being formidable. She was also wonderful. I can remember on more than one occasion being passed to Moira for a chat after a very robust exchange with Alec. She was always there so we could figure things out and smooth things over.

Finally, the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) mentioned Parnell. Alec mentioned Parnell as well. Parnell was somebody who laid the groundwork for independence and for whom—to paraphrase Alec, when it came to independence—“the dream shall never die.”

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Further to those points of order, Mr Speaker. Alex Salmond was a great friend at university and also in this House. Despite political differences, I speak from personal experience when I say that he was a man capable of very great kindness. I shall certainly miss him, and Moira certainly has my condolences.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Gethins Excerpts

Wednesday 4th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray]

There seems to be no recognition or apology from the shadow Secretary of State for the legacy his party has left this Government to try to clear up. We knew about the massive overspend in public services by the previous Government, and the audit the Chancellor did in her first weekend in office revealed the £22 billion black hole. These things have to be fixed. We did not expect or want to make such tough decisions, but we have had to make them to fix the foundations of our economy.

[Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)]

May I add my congratulations to the Secretary of State? I know it has not always been easy and sometimes it has been a lonely path, so I offer my personal congratulations to him on his appointment and to the hon. Member for Midlothian (Kirsty McNeill) on taking her place.

I will take the Secretary of State at face value on improving the relationship between the Scottish and UK Governments, but he will be aware of the devastating consequences of the cuts in the winter fuel payment for pensioners in both our constituencies and across Scotland. In order to work better with the Scottish Government, will he do better than giving them just 90 minutes’ notice next time?

[Ian Murray]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman back to his place, having won the election for the new constituency of Arbroath and Broughty Ferry. He should look at what the Finance Secretary said in the Scottish Parliament yesterday: she announced half a billion pounds of cuts, including £120 million in health services and £20 million in mental health services, and she has sold the family inheritance by using the ScotWind money to plug the additional funding gaps in the budget. Audit Scotland and the Institute for Fiscal Studies have been clear that this is a problem of the Scottish Government’s own making, so if they want to reset the relationship, they can start by taking responsibility for their own actions.

[Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)]

6. What discussions he has had with the Scottish Government on steps to help promote economic growth in Scotland.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Ian Murray)]

I am committed to working with the Scottish Government and have already met the Deputy First Minister four times in eight weeks. Resetting the relationship between Scotland’s two Governments is crucial to driving economic growth. Just last week, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was in Glasgow and met the First Minister. The Prime Minister has made resetting the relationship a key part of his new way of working in government. He has met with the First Minister to have those discussions and with members of the business community to discuss growing the Scottish economy. It is the choice of all of us to grow the Scottish economy and something we all need to do together.

[Stephen Gethins]

The Secretary of State will be aware that macroeconomic policy sits here in Westminster and that decisions taken here have a huge impact. We have worked on this issue before, so does he agree with the SNP that being outside the customs union and the single market is bad for growth in the Scottish economy, or does he agree with the Conservatives and their Reform party colleagues that it has been good for the Scottish economy?

[Ian Murray]

The hon. Gentleman is taking no responsibility for the decisions that his party makes in the Scottish Government. We saw that yesterday with them plugging the hole in their own public finances. The IFS has been clear that the decisions the Scottish Government have made have taken the tax take down in Scotland, despite being it being the highest taxed part of the country. If we are to reset this relationship, they have to start off by taking accountability and responsibility for their own decisions.

Sewel Convention

Stephen Gethins Excerpts

Monday 18th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Colin Clark (Gordon) (Con)]

It is an honour to follow the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) who said so many things with which I agreed and so many things that made great sense.

We are here discussing the Sewel convention because of Brexit and because of the SNP’s aim of separation. In 2016, the EU referendum was not a Scottish vote any more than it was a Yorkshire vote or a London vote; it was a UK vote. To respect the UK result, we must deliver the will of the people. The 2014 independence referendum makes Scotland democratically, beyond doubt, a vital part of the UK. We hear cries of “Scotland’s watching”. Yes, the people are watching. They are watching the SNP not respecting the independence referendum. They are watching the SNP not respecting the fact that it lost 21 seats in the 2017 general election, against the Conservative and Labour parties which were both running on Brexit manifestos. The SNP is ignoring the democratic will of the Scottish people. The Sewel convention, as the Supreme Court made clear, is a political doctrine recognised by the court. The SNP shouts, “Scotland’s voice was silenced.” It claims that amendments curtail the authority of the Scottish Government and that the nature of devolution has been changed forever. After months of ministerial negotiation and painstaking discussions by civil servants, the claim of a power grab is simply a grievance.

Which powers is Holyrood losing? Which powers will Holyrood not implement? Twenty-four powers previously governed by the EU will be reserved temporarily to address trade issues and open borders. Common frameworks are essential to business and jobs in our constituencies, as my hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire (Paul Masterton) said. Eighty powers are immediately handed over, so where is the power grab? The Conservatives wanted amendments made in this House. That they were not is regrettable, but the Lords moved a long way. Did the Secretary of State and the Cabinet Office work with the Scottish Government in good faith? Yes they did—in good faith.

The SNP is acting as a fifth column. Industry can now see that Holyrood cannot be trusted to represent it and that jobs will be undermined. In my constituency in Aberdeenshire—the most prosperous and effective part of the economy in Scotland—people are asking why we are still squabbling over this and why it is not being implemented. The EU referendum was about the UK, which Scotland chose conclusively to be part of in the 2014 referendum. Nicola Sturgeon has seen the EU withdrawal Bill as a saviour to precipitate independence referendum 2. It is the last-chance saloon. The SNP has planned all along to try to wreck the Bill. If hon. Members fundamentally believe that the UK should remain borderless, retaining some powers in Westminster was a sensible stop-gap. How else could we negotiate an all-UK trade area? Mike Russell thought he had a deal. SNP MPs thought they had a deal. Frameworks are a no-brainer. Unfortunately, as the Lib Dems and Labour have just realised, this is simply a false flag. It has always been, and always will be, about independence ref 2 in Scotland.

As I said earlier, Jim Sillars lays the blame at Nicola Sturgeon’s feet. What happened the other week undermines the institutions of this democracy and damages Scotland’s position in Brexit negotiations. Nicola Sturgeon is clearly not acting as an honest broker.

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman talks about this democracy and compares the EU with the UK, which I find peculiar. Can he tell me of any other EU member state that is a democracy, where a party has lost an election 21 times in a row, but finds itself in power?

[Colin Clark]

I remind the hon. Gentleman that this is the United Kingdom. We had an independence referendum. He and I are part of the United Kingdom. I want to protect the Union; he wants separation from it.

Jim Sillars also said:

“I cannot remember one hostile speech that could be construed as an outright attempt to trash Scotland’s constitutional position.”

That is interesting, given that he is from the SNP. So this is not an attack on devolution and it is not a power grab.

What I really wanted to come on to is that language such as “Martini strategy” and “hit and run” radicalises those supporters to ignite the democratic process, undermines the rule of law and weakens Holyrood’s role. Frankly, it can endanger politicians, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr) mentioned earlier.

Scotland Bill

Stephen Gethins Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman think that these proposals are—to quote a Scotsman—

“as close to a federal state as you can be”?

A simple yes or no answer will do.

[Ian Austin]

As I have said, the proposals will make the Scottish Parliament the most powerful devolved parliament in the world. Labour has been the driving force behind this Bill. We have pushed to ensure that Scotland has all the extra powers, including powers over welfare, to allow the Scottish Parliament to design a new social security system for Scotland and to ensure the Scottish Parliament will have the opportunity to mitigate the impact of Tory cuts to tax credits. Despite their desperation to be disappointed and their determination to stoke grievance and fuel resentment, SNP Members have said that this will give the Scottish Parliament the powers it needs to create a new social security system in Scotland. When asked whether the Bill gives Holyrood the power to make up any reduction in tax credits, Alex Neil, the SNP welfare spokesperson, said:

“The amendments...should give the Scottish Parliament those powers.”

Despite that, the nats have tabled a series of amendments, including 10 new clauses on national insurance, the living wage, employment legislation, industrial relations, benefits, full fiscal autonomy and the power to decide whether and when to hold another referendum.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Murray]

It is a pleasure to talk to our new clauses and amendments on this part of the Bill. We have a lot of ground still to cover in this short debate, but it is important to state at the outset that crucial welfare clauses in this Bill deliver on the vow and the Smith agreement in both spirit and substance. That was not the case before the Government tabled their latest tranche of amendments last Monday. That is why, as my SNP colleagues rightly highlighted earlier, the deputy leader of the Scottish Labour party said that the vow had not been met, and indeed the architect of the vow, the right hon. Gordon Brown, the former Prime Minister, made exactly the same points. However, now that the amendments are before the House, we believe that the benefits issue has been resolved and that therefore the vow has been delivered. This is a crucial victory for the Scottish Parliament, the importance of which cannot be overstated. I said at the end of the Committee stage that if the Government did nothing else they should concede to my amendment 31 to allow the Scottish Parliament the power effectively to design its own social security system. Their new clause 34 does that, and we will support them on it.

[Stephen Gethins]

Does the hon. Gentleman think that the proposals are as close to federalism as we can get? Yes or no will do the trick for me.

Scotland Bill

Stephen Gethins Excerpts

Monday 15th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sir Edward Leigh]

That is an amusing point, but the right hon. Gentleman knows exactly what I am trying to say. This is a very serious point; it is not just a debating point. We have a responsibility to learn from history. What I was saying last week, and what I believe, is that we were wrong to abolish the Irish Parliament, wrong to delay granting Catholic emancipation, wrong not to listen to Gladstone in the 1880s, and wrong not to implement full home rule at the outset of the great war. We were wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong again. We need to have an element of statesmanship and vision in these affairs. The right hon. Gentleman, with all his debating skills, can laugh at what I say, but I assure him that I genuinely believe in what I am trying to do.

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman is highlighting many wrongs. Does he think that Irish independence was wrong?

[Sir Edward Leigh]

If we had granted home rule in the 1880s or implemented the home rule Act in August 1914, it is very probable that Ireland would have remained in the Union or become a dominion. Of course I regret the fact that Ireland chose to break free. There was a tragic civil war. That will not happen in Scotland, but the history of Ireland is one of tragedy and missed opportunities. Nobody is suggesting that we will go down that route with Scotland, but let us learn from history and try to be creative in these matters.