Devolution (Immigration) (Scotland) Bill

Tonia Antoniazzi Excerpts

Friday 25th April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)]

It is an honour to follow the hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire (Pete Wishart), my vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary beer group, which is a very important group. I agree with him about how beautiful Scotland is and I am interested to hear some practical ideas on how we can increase the Scottish population. I am sure that the birth rate could be incentivised by the Scottish Government, perhaps with tax relief for more babies—that is just an idea.

The hon. Gentleman talks about pandering to the Reform agenda, but I do not think any hon. Members in this House, from any party, are immune to the dangers of Reform’s rhetoric. He is misguided in saying that Labour Members are the ones pallying up to Reform. I agree with many of the interventions from Labour Members today, and I will make a few further points. Although I hate to burst the SNP’s bubble, since July, Scottish Labour has won two thirds of by-elections—many, many congratulations to my friends in Scotland. Also, as a former French teacher, I am very familiar with Québec, which is a wonderful place. It has had two referendums and people have voted remain twice. Independence happens to be off the agenda, so perhaps the SNP needs to study that a bit more.

I would like to echo the words of my hon. Friends, and I wonder, when James V of Scotland became James I, did he ever think that after 400 years—

[Hon. Members]

James VI!

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

The SNP Members are right—I am really rubbish at Roman numerals. I have suffered with that since I was a child, so I put that down to my lack of intelligence around Roman numerals. My notes do actually say “VI”—I just cannot do them, but at least I can admit to my failings. When James VI of Scotland became James I, did he ever think that after 400 years and multiple Acts of Parliament and referendums, we would still be having these conversations? Either way, he had a more successful career in the monarchy than Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, the last prince of Wales.

As a Welsh MP who is the Chair of the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs, perhaps I was destined to be involved in a debate on Scottish devolution. I believe, of course, that devolving powers is right, and I appreciate that 14 years of a Tory Government here has left a very sour taste in the devolved nations’ mouths, including in Wales. But I cannot agree with devolving immigration to the Scottish Government. First, the notion that this should be a priority for the SNP here or in Holyrood is, frankly, for the birds. After a shocking result in the general election for the SNP, surely now the priority is to rebuild trust before the Scottish elections, and rebuilding that trust is difficult, guys. If we look at the record in Scotland, we see that almost one in six Scots is on an NHS waiting list. We see falling standards and rising violence in our once world-leading schools, while the poverty-related attainment gap in highers is at its widest ever, and hon. Members know how much I care about that.

[Dave Doogan]

Before the hon. Member gets to the end of her prepared litany of apparent failures in Scotland, she might want to touch on the far greater spending on education and health in Scotland. But just to get clarity on this issue, in this grotesque thing that is the United Kingdom, can she give me one measure—because I know she is super-smart—on which the devolved Welsh Government perform better than the SNP Government in Scotland?

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

That old chestnut, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have been part of that system as a teacher, and I know what the high points are. Actually, I do not think there is any comparator when the Scottish Government have had a lot more money to play with from their Barnett formula consequentials.

I want to move on to something that is very close to my heart: the Supreme Court judgment, for which Scottish women had to bring a case to the Supreme Court. I just think we have not done anybody right, and that comes from the SNP Government and their agenda in Scotland. We have seen how NHS Fife is treating the nurse, Sandie Peggie. We know how they are treating women and girls. There is a brilliant book called “The Women Who Wouldn’t Wheesht”, by Lucy Hunter Blackburn and Susan Dalgety. It has 30 essays with 30 women’s voices on the situation in Scotland, from the frontline of the battle for women’s rights. It is a compelling read, Madam Deputy Speaker—I can get you a copy. So many women have had their reputations thrown under a bus and their jobs ruined, and their relationships with family and friends have gone.

[Joani Reid]

My hon. Friend rightly points out the outrageous situation that so many women in Scotland have faced over the last few years. Does she agree that if Scotland wants to attract more immigrants and more migrants, it needs to understand women’s issues more coherently?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

Order. I am grateful for that intervention, because I remind Members to please keep in scope of the Bill.

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

That was the point I was going to make: if we want to make Scotland a more attractive place to go, we have to be inclusive and ensure that we look after women and girls.

Does anyone have an idea of how the Scottish Government would police this issue when there is no border? From my time as a shadow Northern Ireland Minister, and even now as the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, I know the ongoing challenges there are with electronic travel authorisation for tourists from outside the EU, many of whom will likely travel into the Republic of Ireland first before trying to visit Northern Ireland. With no border on the island of Ireland, there are still unanswered questions about how that would be managed, and I foresee the same challenges in Scotland. Has any consideration been given to that?

How do the Scottish Government propose to deal with the sudden, humongous immigration caseload, thanks to the backlog created by the last Tory Government’s diabolical record on immigration? This would not be a case of a new Scottish home department starting from zero, because that is just impossible. This Bill just is not a practical proposal.

[Seamus Logan]

I have the benefit of having been a tour guide in a previous life. I often brought American visitors into Dublin and on into Northern Ireland. The hon. Lady says that she is the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, so I point out to her that there is no border in that regard. The tourists pass freely from the south to the north and back into the south, so I have no idea what she is talking about. Will she elaborate on where the problem might arise for those tourists?

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

If the hon. Member is aware of the ETA situation we have in the Home Office, he will know that people have to have applied online to be able to travel into the north. Many concerns are being raised with me that that is a real issue. [Interruption.] Well, it is true—tourism in Northern Ireland is struggling, because people will not go there because of the additional paperwork that there is. It is a real issue. Because I am so generous, I will send some of my correspondence and the concerns that have been raised with me to the hon. Gentleman. He may like to cast his eye over them, just to put the record straight.

An argument I have heard in favour of the Bill is that it would help with growing the hospitality sector in Scotland, which is fantastic. I enjoy visiting Scotland, particularly for rugby; the rugby games may be unsuccessful, but I enjoy it. There is tourism from Wales to Scotland, and I would hate for there to be any hindrance in that regard. Members will know my passion for rugby, and I make regular visits.

[Stephen Gethins]

Welsh tourists are always welcome in Scotland—I have had many great times. I have a practical point relating to the Bill. The hon. Lady has criticised it, which is fine, but I have been very clear that I want to open this issue up. Which parts of the Scottish Labour proposals does she find attractive?

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

Which part of the Scottish Labour proposals do I find attractive? Well, this is your Bill, mate. I do not have any comment to make there.

I am the chair of the APPG on beer, which I mentioned, so I have many thoughts on hospitality. The hospitality sector has struggled across the board, particularly in recovering post covid. Growing the sector cannot simply be resolved by changing immigration rules: this is a multifaceted issue. In fact, so many of the areas of change that could help the sector to grow, such as business rates, apprenticeships, tourism and tax, are already devolved to the Scottish Government.

[Graham Leadbitter]

I welcome the fact that the hon. Lady enjoys coming to Scotland for rugby games. I have a Welsh great-uncle who once had a try out for the Welsh national team, so it is a great passion within my family.

On hospitality, however, will the hon. Lady concede that although immigration might not be the only part of the problem, it is a significant part of the problem and we need to deal with it? That is what the Bill is for. There are other things that can be done and that are being explored and worked on by the Scottish Government and other Departments in the UK Government, but we are talking about immigration today. Will she concede that it is a significant issue and that this Bill could help to deal with it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the intervention, but it is just a shame that the SNP did not give hospitality the rates relief it had in England. That is an issue that needs to be considered.

Just in February, I spoke at an event celebrating young apprentices in the hospitality industry—restaurants, pub chains and breweries all together recognising the importance of hospitality apprenticeships in a growing sector. Support for this sector in Scotland has been seen as less desirable, especially on business rates, as I said. UKHospitality research shows that a typical local pub in Scotland will have to pay £12,000 more in rates bills than a similar business in England. Industry leaders have argued that while support is available elsewhere in the UK, Scotland’s hospitality sector is being left behind. Trying to fix this with a larger migrant workforce is just not viable when businesses are already struggling. The best way to address problems in this sector is through investment, upskilling and tackling economic inactivity, and the best way to enable this is for our devolved nations to work together, linking up migration, skills and labour market policies.

The Scottish Government want to introduce a new rural visa pilot to encourage migration to remote and rural communities where the population is declining. Is that any wonder when over 1,400 bus routes have been lost between 2006-07 and 2023-24, including 190 in the last year alone, and when a pilot that removed peak rail prices has been scrapped, meaning a total rise in rail fares of between 20% and 200%? It is simply unfair to encourage people to live in these rural communities—which are beautiful—when the infrastructure they need to function is not there.

I do not want to be accused of being anti-change; I am definitely not that person. Devolution is a process, not an event, and I am not saying here today that the devolution package should never change. I do not believe my party is saying that today, and we have a lot to say. What I do think, however, is that now is not the time. Any changes deserve a careful, thought-out and scrutinised process. The question is whether this Bill would benefit the people of Scotland now, and the answer is no.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.