Oral Answers to Questions
Matthew Patrick Excerpts(2 weeks, 5 days ago)
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Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
Public services in Northern Ireland can and should be better. The Government are backing the Northern Ireland Executive every step of the way, starting with a record £19.3 billion settlement. Of course there is more to do and we will continue to work with the Executive to do it.
Mr Dhesi
Like my Slough constituents, the good people of Northern Ireland deserve the best possible public services. This Government promised to cut the sky-high NHS waiting lists. Indeed, those lists are coming down for the first time in 15 years thanks to an extra £26 billion investment. That extra money is part of why the Northern Ireland Executive have a record funding settlement. Does the Minister agree that it is now crucial that the Executive and this Government work collaboratively to share knowledge and best practice so that we improve outcomes for patients?
Matthew Patrick
I agree with my hon. Friend. He is right to highlight that, just recently, England had the second best monthly fall in waiting lists for 15 years. In Northern Ireland, the 70,000-appointments target has been surpassed and we have hit 200,000 additional appointments. I am pleased with the work of the Northern Ireland Health Minister Mike Nesbitt on that. The UK Government are committed to sharing best practice with those in the Northern Ireland Executive to continue that work.
Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)
Health is a devolved matter, but the fight against cancer is not. Will the Minister join me in praising the work of the All-Island Cancer Research Institute, which is led by Queen’s and others, and ensure that our efforts to address cancer are done not just in Northern Ireland or the four nations, but between these islands?
Matthew Patrick
It was my privilege to see some of the work being done there. Any efforts to bring down waiting times for cancer patients should be adopted. I will encourage this Government to do anything they can to share best practice from their own 10-year cancer plan.
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
Over the past 10 days we have seen a number of revelations about the procurement of services and goods and the provision of sensitive information during Peter Mandelson’s time as a Government Minister and as an ambassador in Washington. Given that Mandelson was, for two years, Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, can the Minister assure the House that his Department will comb its records to identify any possible wrongdoing?
Matthew Patrick
I can absolutely give the shadow Secretary of State that assurance. That work is under way and we will update the House on anything that may emerge.
Alex Burghart
I am very grateful to the Minister for that direct response. Will he also commit to return to this House before Easter to update Members on the work that his Department has done and what it has found?
Matthew Patrick
I believe that work will be published by the Cabinet Office. I will ensure that, through that, the House will receive an update on the records.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
I thank the Minister, the Secretary of State and his officials for their constructive engagement in preparation for a reserve claim for the Executive. Through that work, I know that the figure has doubled and rightly so. May I also highlight the Northern Ireland Audit Office’s report on the frailty within our Northern Ireland civil service? In the past six years, out of 23 recommendations, only five have been progressed. We have 5,000 vacancies, 3,000 temporary promotions and a rising sickness level. Does he believe that it is sustainable for the Northern Ireland civil service to ignore such changes for reform if we want to see the delivery of good public services?
Matthew Patrick
This Government are committed to civil service reform here. We have said that we wish to move fast and fix things. We will share our learnings with the Northern Ireland civil service. The right hon. Member also mentioned the reserve claim. He will have seen in yesterday’s supplementary estimates that £400 million has been given to the Northern Ireland Executive. That is exceptional. It will be repayable over three years and accompanied by an open-book exercise looking at the Executive budget.
Gavin Robinson
One constraint, as the Minister knows because I raised it at the last Northern Ireland questions, is the potential requirement, as a result of EU legislative change, of an additional 60,000 GP appointments for antimicrobial-resistant drugs. That would decimate the delivery of health services in Northern Ireland. I ask that he and the Secretary of State engage with this to ensure that Northern Ireland is not a casualty as a result of the imposition of EU regulation. Can he update the House on that?
Matthew Patrick
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising this matter powerfully last month and again this month. We raised his concerns with the European Union, and I am pleased—I hope he is, too—that the latest draft of the EU regulations includes a full exemption for Northern Ireland regarding the prescription status of antimicrobial-resistant medicines. That shows the benefits of a grown-up working relationship with the European Union, so that we can address issues as and when they arise.
Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)
John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
The defence of our country is always the first duty of any Government. Last week I met businesses big and small, the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and Industry and representative bodies, as well as our great universities, to discuss how the defence growth deal for Northern Ireland can pack the biggest punch possible. With £250 million across five deals, including one in Northern Ireland, there is a huge potential here, and I am determined that we will seize it.
Alice Macdonald
In Northern Ireland the defence sector offers many opportunities to apprentices, as it does across the rest of the country: I met two apprentices from MSI Defence Systems in my constituency yesterday. Will the Minister join me in celebrating apprentices throughout our United Kingdom, and will he explain how we will support the next generation of skilled workers in this vital industry?
Matthew Patrick
I am happy to join my hon. Friend in doing that. Just last week I visited Mallaghan, where four apprentices were being given incredible opportunities as a result of taking up their jobs, and I am sure they would agree with my hon. Friend’s assessment.
Kevin Bonavia
My hon. Friend will be aware that the defence industry sector is well established in my constituency, where it is building links with its counterparts in Northern Ireland. Does the Minister agree that the defence industrial strategy presents a huge opportunity for businesses in constituencies throughout the country, including Stevenage and most certainly Northern Ireland, where it can help to boost investment, job creation and economic growth?
Matthew Patrick
My hon. Friend is right. The strategy is not just about the defence of the realm; there are economic opportunities that come with it. The defence growth deal on which we are working in Northern Ireland will take advantage of that, and will ensure that small businesses in particular can benefit.
John Slinger
The Government are doing good work to encourage young people into their careers via apprenticeships, and this week is National Apprenticeship Week. In my constituency we have GE Vernova, which is ramping up its apprenticeship scheme, while Rugby college, part of Warwickshire College Group, is getting apprenticeship programmes under way for 750 young people and adults. Does the Minister agree that the Government must go further to support apprenticeships in the vital defence sector, in my constituency and throughout the United Kingdom, including, of course, Northern Ireland?
Matthew Patrick
My hon. Friend is entirely right. Some of the apprentices whom I met just last week told me that, over four years, they were more than £100,000 better off as a result of taking their apprenticeships. It is good for them, good for businesses and good for the country.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
Yesterday I met two apprentices who were engaged in firms delivering defence contracts in Northern Ireland and were enthusiastic about the skills and their prospects, but Northern Ireland benefits minimally from defence contracts across the United Kingdom. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that more contracts are awarded to Northern Ireland, and will he ignore the comments of the First Minister, who does not want that to happen?
Matthew Patrick
This Government are supporting businesses in Northern Ireland. The work that I am doing with them on the defence growth deal is designed specifically to ensure that this will benefit them and all their supply chains, and I will continue to do that work.
Katie Lam (Weald of Kent) (Con)
Whatever the defence industrial strategy aims to do, its aims will not be met if we cannot find and recruit people willing to use the equipment and technology that are created. People will be far less likely to risk their lives to keep our country safe and free if they cannot rely on the Government to stand by them both during and after their service. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact on the military and the defence industry of the Government’s decision to allow our veterans who served in Northern Ireland to be dragged vindictively through the courts?
Matthew Patrick
I reject that characterisation. The immunity that was offered by the last Government was false. We do not agree with that in principle, and the veterans we speak to do not want immunity under the law; they want equality before it. It was this Government who gave our armed forces the largest pay rise in over two decades. This Government are backing our armed forces.
Alex Easton (North Down) (Ind)
Does the Minister agree that there is a clear need for a stronger role for Northern Ireland firms in the UK defence supply chain, and will he commit to encouraging far greater inclusion of Northern Ireland small and medium-sized enterprises in Ministry of Defence framework contracts and sub-contracting opportunities?
Matthew Patrick
I absolutely accept that we can do even more to support such companies. The companies I have been meeting in relation to the defence growth deal have said that the opportunity to showcase the talent and expertise that exists in Northern Ireland is really important, and I want to support them in doing that.
Jas Athwal (Ilford South) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
Chances in life are set early. Although education is devolved in Northern Ireland, we must work together. That is why it was my privilege to bring the Minister for Early Education to Belfast recently to visit schools and to present to Northern Ireland Ministers at the East-West Council. We discussed the school twinning programme, the theme of which is “Reading for Pleasure”. As a new dad, I am reading quite a few baby books at the moment.
Sarah Hall
As chair of the inclusion and nurture in education all-party group, I welcome the Northern Ireland Department of Education’s independent research showing that nurture provision delivers measurable improvements in pupils’ behaviour, attendance and attainment. What discussions are being had to share this good practice in inclusive education with the rest of the UK, including officials in England, as the Government seek to improve inclusion and educational outcomes for all?
Matthew Patrick
Just last month, I went with the early years Minister to visit schools that are really focused on being inclusive and nurturing for pupils, and my hon. Friend is totally right to highlight how this work can have such a positive impact on the children in our schools.
Jas Athwal
Does the Minister agree with me about the importance of the Northern Ireland Executive and the Government sharing knowledge, expertise and best practice as we all seek to improve outcomes for children in all our schools?
Matthew Patrick
I absolutely do. I have always said that this is not a case of cutting a cheque and walking away. There is work we can do with the Northern Ireland Executive, and we continue to share best practice. In fact, just this week I wrote to the Minister responsible for early years, my hon. Friend the Member for Reading West and Mid Berkshire (Olivia Bailey), to explore further opportunities for collaboration.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
At last year’s spending review, the Northern Ireland Office announced a £2 million allocation to support the integrated education sector. Given that a range of schools in Northern Ireland have been offering an integrated educational ethos for many years, will the Government review that policy to support integrated education per se across a number of schools in Northern Ireland?
Matthew Patrick
We support integrated education, and integrated schools are a really important part of that. I was recently at some shared education schools, at the request of the Minister, and I was impressed by some of the work being done there, but I do not think there is just one route for schools in Northern Ireland.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his answers. The Education Minister in Northern Ireland, Paul Givan, has been keen to introduce restrictions on students using smartphones in schools, and he has a pilot scheme in place. The Government here are happy to do the same thing. Has the Minister had an opportunity to encourage the Education Minister in Northern Ireland to bring in smartphone restrictions in schools? One party in the Executive wishes to stop that, but the will of the people is to make sure it happens.
Matthew Patrick
I was with the Minister for Education recently but this topic did not come up. Obviously, these matters are devolved and are for the Northern Ireland Executive, but I would be happy to speak to Minister Givan, as the hon. Member suggests.
David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)
Northern Ireland Political Institutions: Reform
Matthew Patrick Excerpts(1 month, 2 weeks ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
It is an honour to serve under your chairship, Ms Vaz. I congratulate the hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sorcha Eastwood) on securing the debate. She referred to the fact that she secured a similar debate only a year ago, and it is a tribute to her consistent campaigning and relentless focus on this issue that we are back here again. I knew then, as I know now, that her ambition is for Northern Ireland to be as strong as it can be for the people of Northern Ireland. As the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) has just said, I have no doubt that she shares that ambition with everyone in the Chamber.
It is important to note, as the hon. Member for Belfast South and Mid Down (Claire Hanna) said, that in the nearly 30 years since the signing of the Good Friday agreement, it has not stood still. Thanks to the St Andrews and Hillsborough castle arrangements, the Executive have responsibility for policing and justice in Northern Ireland. The “Fresh Start” agreement provided for an official Opposition for the first time. The New Decade, New Approach agreement provided for important changes to the petition of concern.
I know that the hon. Member for Lagan Valley, and everybody advocating for evolution in Northern Ireland’s institutions, recognises the importance of reaching across the aisle, just as the architects of the original agreement did. They knew the importance of building a coalition of support. That support must come from not just the parties themselves, but the public as a whole. It was the Northern Ireland public who voted so decisively for the historic agreement 30 years ago. Let us be clear: any changes must work in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland, not just the parties. In my mind, I ask whether it can command the widest possible support and if it improves the lives of the people in Northern Ireland. Fundamentally, as others have said, that is what we are here for: better outcomes for the people we serve.
It is important to place the debate in its full and proper context. Although the Assembly and Executive are not perfect—I dare say some would say that about our Parliament, too—as others, including the hon. Member for Wimbledon (Mr Kohler), noted, the Good Friday agreement remains a landmark achievement for Northern Ireland. Indeed, I said in a recent debate that it is one of the finest achievements of the previous Labour Government. We would not be stood here nearly 30 years later if it were not for that Labour Government and the Conservative Government who came before them, particularly through the work of the then Prime Minister John Major. He helped to change the approach to bring about peace, as did those in Northern Ireland—politicians and not—who came together to give peace its chance. Without everyone—and I mean everyone—we would not be here looking at nearly 30 years of peace and prosperity.
Of course, no system is perfect, and that is certainly true of the strand 1 institutions, which for almost 40% of the time have not been functioning. I know that government is hard and power sharing even more so, so I pay tribute to those Ministers who are working day in, day out to address the serious challenges of bringing down waiting lists, tackling the cost of living crisis, driving higher standards in our schools and unlocking the potential of economic growth. I am encouraged when I see the Executive coming together to deliver on the issues that matter to the people of Northern Ireland. Yes, it is imperfect, but there is no such thing as a perfect system. All of us know that. That is why we approach these debates with humility and determination. Any proposed changes must deliver for the people of Northern Ireland.
The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) asked for encouragement, and I will always encourage debate among those who want Northern Ireland to succeed. I am pleased that we are having today’s debate because it is healthy for a society to consider changes and improvements that might be made—indeed, we are reforming the House of Lords—and I also know how strong and genuinely felt calls for the reform of the institutions are, particularly from Alliance and the SDLP, as we have heard today. Many among the Northern Irish public will share that view. The 2024 Northern Ireland life and times survey clearly shows support for the Good Friday agreement as a whole and for its further evolution. I agree with the 68% of people in Northern Ireland who think that the Good Friday agreement remains the best basis for governing Northern Ireland. That is a remarkable vote of confidence in an agreement that is nearly 30 years old and continues to deliver for Northern Ireland.
I acknowledge the recent Assembly motion that called on the Secretary of State to convene a reform process between the Northern Ireland parties and the Irish Government. The UK Government’s position is clear. The Prime Minister said last week, regarding the Northern Ireland parties, that
“we are always happy to discuss any proposals for reform that would lead to a consensus.”—[Official Report, 7 January 2026; Vol. 778, c. 259.]
However—this is evident from some aspects of today’s debate—I do not see a shared view on institutional reform among the political parties or, indeed, the people of Northern Ireland.
Claire Hanna
Does the Minister acknowledge that at the time of the Good Friday agreement, the parties did not arrive together at consensus, and nor did they with the likes of the St Andrews agreement, when things were distorted? Does he agree that it is unusual for all the parties to arrive at a fully formed agreement, and that a degree of facilitation is required?
Matthew Patrick
I agree that those parties did not come with a consensus already, and about the importance of their working together and finding consensus between them. In the vein of what I have just said, I welcome the work of the Assembly and Executive Review Committee, which is considering reform of the institutions.
Robin Swann
I heard the Prime Minister refer to the work of the Assembly and Executive Review Committee in the Chamber last week. Does the Minister realise that that has met only 12 times since 2024? It is not a Committee that is doing a lot of work or delivering a lot.
Matthew Patrick
The work of the Committee could be quite important. It could provide an opportunity for agreement on these important issues in the future, and I welcome its work. I have met the Executive Ministers in Northern Ireland and there is consensus on the need to improve public services that people rely on. I know it is a priority for them, and indeed it is for this Government.
Jim Allister
The Minister has talked several times about consensus. Can he therefore explain why, when given the opportunity to live by the fundamental principles of the Belfast agreement and cross-community consent, his party eschewed and dismantled that when it came to this question: should people in Northern Ireland, for the next four years, be subject to laws in 300 areas that they do not make and cannot change, and which are imposed on them by the EU treating Northern Ireland as a colony? Why did consensus not matter then?
Matthew Patrick
The hon. and learned Gentleman raises a point about cross-community consent in the Windsor framework. The democratic consent vote is premised on cross-community support, and if the vote does not obtain cross-community support, that will require an independent review, and it will mean that the next vote is in four years rather than eight years. As the hon. and learned Gentleman knows, this happened in December 2024. Ultimately, I would say that it is right that such a change to trading arrangements that addresses the unique circumstances in Northern Ireland should rely on a majority in the Assembly.
I turn to public service transformation. I am immensely proud that, through the last spending review, the Government secured a £19.3 billion settlement for Northern Ireland, which is the largest settlement in the history of devolution. The funding was secured so that the Northern Ireland Executive can deliver the public services that the people of Northern Ireland deserve. If that was not enough, a further £370 million was secured through Barnett consequentials just before the new year. I believe that that funding provides the basis—the very foundation —through which the Executive can transform public services in the months ahead.
Robin Swann
The Minister knows that I have challenged the Secretary of State about the transformation fund that was set up when the Executive came back two years ago. Does he agree that it is lamentable that that money is still not completely spent and not completely allocated? A committee has been formed to assess the best projects, rather than actually getting on with supporting the Ministers who want to make transformation a real thing.
Matthew Patrick
I will briefly come to the hon. Member’s point in a moment, but I wanted to touch on some of the improvements that we are seeing. I pay tribute to the Health Minister, Mike Nesbitt, and his commitment to transformation, under which we are seeing waiting lists to start to fall. My hope is that we can go further.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned the transformation fund. We have reaffirmed our commitment to the £235 million fund, £129 million of which has been allocated to six projects that I believe can transform public services. The £61 million for the primary care multi-disciplinary teams will enable a crucial shift from hospital treatment to preventive care. There are other things that I wanted to mention, but in the interests of time I will skip forward.
I once again thank the hon. Member for Lagan Valley for securing this debate. I recognise and entirely respect the strength of feeling on this issue and the views that people in the Chamber hold. It is a conversation that rightly continues. Any reforms must command the widest possible support, and the people of Northern Ireland must be at the heart of any proposed changes.
The Good Friday agreement showed us that when people put their differences aside, and put the public interest first, we can achieve great things. I am committed to helping the Executive to realise their ambitions for a stronger Northern Ireland. As we look forward to the future and the hope of improved public services, I take a short moment to step back and reflect on how far we have come. When the agreement was reached 30 years ago, people could never have dreamed of having a debate on such a topic. Such a sea change is remarkable—I pay tribute to all who played a part in it—and 30 years on, I, too, believe that a further shore is reachable from here.
Oral Answers to Questions
Matthew Patrick Excerpts(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
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Dr Lauren Sullivan (Gravesham) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
May I associate myself with your tribute to Karen, Mr Speaker? I also wish you, your team and the whole House a happy new year.
The Secretary of State and I regularly meet Executive Ministers. I recently met the Education Minister, Paul Givan, to discuss integration in our schools. We have provided a record settlement of £19.3 billion for Northern Ireland to improve public services. I look forward to working with all Ministers in Northern Ireland as they deliver on their priorities in 2026.
Dr Sullivan
Happy new year, Mr Speaker.
This Government have delivered the largest funding settlement to Northern Ireland since devolution. In addition to that record support to Northern Ireland, and across the United Kingdom, what discussions is the Minister having on sharing best practice with Northern Ireland and across the wider United Kingdom?
Matthew Patrick
My hon. Friend is right to mention that record settlement, but it is not just a question of cutting a cheque and walking away; it is also about working and sharing best practice, as she mentioned. I have had conversations with the Northern Ireland Health Minister about how we can share best practice as part of our 10-year NHS plan, and I am confident that we can continue to work together to deliver better outcomes.
Sir Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
Can I press the Minister on the discussions he is having with the Executive on digital services? Dublin has just produced a very innovative digital services plan for public services. I urge the Government to talk closely with the Executive to ensure that Northern Ireland keeps pace with Dublin in that area.
Matthew Patrick
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. I am very happy to ensure that that features in our conversations with Executive Ministers. Northern Ireland is leading the way in so many of these areas, so I will continue to have those conversations.
Mike Wood (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire) (Con)
Happy new year, Mr Speaker.
Policing numbers in Northern Ireland are at their lowest ever level. Both the Police Service of Northern Ireland and Policy Exchange have warned that reopening cases from the troubles will place a huge additional financial burden on the police, which would mean risks for both policing numbers and national security. Is the Minister happy with that situation? Will he let it happen, or will the Secretary of State be compensating the PSNI for the decisions made by his Department?
Matthew Patrick
A number of the cases are actually being taken away from the police service if the families refer those cases to the commission. As I mentioned in a previous answer, with a record settlement for Northern Ireland, it is for the Executive to determine how that money is spent, including how they are funding their police force.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The Minister will be aware that the Finance Minister yesterday, in an ill-considered way, published his budget—not an agreed budget—for consultation. The Minister will know the pressures associated with that decision and he will know the challenges that brings for politics in Northern Ireland. One thing that has been absent from the lexicon of politics in Northern Ireland over a number of years is the fiscal framework. Can he update us on where his Government are on negotiations with the Treasury and the Northern Ireland Executive?
Matthew Patrick
I am pleased that, as part of that consultation, there is a record settlement of £19.3 billion to fund those services. The negotiations that the right hon. Gentleman mentions are continuing.
Gavin Robinson
The Minister will also know of the pressures that affect our health service in Northern Ireland. Alarmingly, we understand that the European Union is going to ban the sale of antimicrobial drugs without prescription. Although that should not apply in Northern Ireland, it will. Some 60,000 products are sold over the counter. Our health service could not facilitate 60,000 additional GP appointments. This is an alarming development and I would like to hear the Minister indicate that he not only understands the severity and impact of it, but is going to take steps to address it.
Matthew Patrick
I am aware of the reforms that the right hon. Gentleman mentions. The Government share the EU’s ambition to take action against antimicrobial resistance, but I am also aware of the potential impact on Northern Ireland’s health service, particularly the demand for GP appointments, as he mentioned. We have raised this, and I will be happy to write to him with an update in due course.
Luke Akehurst (North Durham) (Lab)
Claire Hanna (Belfast South and Mid Down) (SDLP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
Since becoming a Minister in the Northern Ireland Office, I have met Executive Ministers, building on the extensive engagement of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. Our discussions have been wide-ranging, and have included discussions on economic growth and transforming public services.
Claire Hanna
The Minister will be aware that for a number of months, I have been raising concerns about the local growth fund and its impact in Northern Ireland. Just before Christmas, organisations got the devastating news of a large cut to the local growth fund, which will devastate a number of support jobs and work done to help vulnerable people into meaningful employment. What steps will the Northern Ireland Office take to prevent the loss of those crucial support jobs, and to help put in place services to tackle our low productivity?
Matthew Patrick
I pay tribute to the great work done by the voluntary sector in Northern Ireland. I know that this has been a difficult time, which is why our engagement with the sector has been so important. I can assure my hon. Friend that that engagement will continue to be important, especially as we launch the local growth fund, which provides £45.5 million a year to support growth in Northern Ireland.
Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)
As we have just heard, Northern Ireland is operating under considerable budgetary constraints, and the local growth fund will cause huge damage. What can the Minister do to assure my constituents in Lagan Valley and people across Northern Ireland that he will listen to our concerns and act on them?
Matthew Patrick
We have put a record settlement of £19.3 billion into Northern Ireland. Obviously, that money can be used to support people. The local growth fund has been built for a year; it has been set aside to make sure that we can support the groups mentioned, and I will continue to engage with them.
Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)
Northern Ireland Troubles Bill
Matthew Patrick ExcerptsTuesday 18th November 2025
(3 months, 1 week ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
It is a real pleasure to close this Second Reading debate for the Government, and I thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed. I wish to declare an interest. Members should be aware of my declaration in the “List of Ministers’ Interests”, where I have flagged that two family members work for the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery.
Today’s debate has been powerful to listen to, and many right hon. and hon. Members have raised important points and asked important questions. In the time available, I will try to address as many of those points as I can, and I will write to Members on any specific points that I am unable to address in time.
I will start my remarks with enormous thanks to the veterans who served us in Operation Banner, serving in intolerable conditions, and standing in harm’s way to protect life, as other Members have powerfully described. Quite simply, our armed forces are the best of us. I wish to thank those who served in the police—a job of enormous difficulty that brave men and women set out to do with distinction. We owe a particular duty of care to those who served our nation, and there will never be equivalence between our armed forces and police service, and the terrorists who set out to cause death and destruction.
As the Secretary of State has set out, this Bill is about helping people to get answers. I cannot begin to understand the pain of not knowing what happened to a loved one who was killed or disappeared. I can only imagine that the need for an answer, to know what really happened, never fades.
Matthew Patrick
I will not take interventions, as I am very short of time.
The right hon. Member for Tonbridge (Tom Tugendhat) said that this legislation will be “reopening wounds”, but I believe they never closed. I have sat with families who simply want to know what happened to their loved one. More than 3,500 people were killed during the troubles. The Good Friday agreement recognised that it was essential to address and acknowledge the suffering of victims and survivors, and it is our collective duty to deliver on that remaining Good Friday agreement commitment. If through this process, those relatives can be supported to get answers, then we will have met that duty. There are many things that the last Labour Government achieved of which I am proud. As the hon. Member for Runcorn and Helsby (Sarah Pochin) noted, the Good Friday agreement rightly sits among their very finest achievements.
I recently had a conversation with a veteran in my constituency who told me how important it is to deal in facts, so let us set some of those out. It is a long-standing principle in this country that decisions to prosecute are independent. Judicial independence has served our country very well for over 300 years. That is why when people read about recent cases, such as the trial of Soldier F, it is not relevant that the decision to prosecute was taken while the Conservative Government were in power, because the decision was independent. Equally, it is not relevant that soldier F was acquitted under a Labour Government, because that decision too is independent.
Since 2012 there have been 25 prosecutions relating to the troubles. Of those, the majority were for republican terrorists. There are nine live prosecutions relating to the troubles, and one ongoing prosecution relates to the conduct of the British Army. Again, the decision to prosecute was taken under the Conservative Government —under, not by, because they are rightly independent decisions.
I urge the House to reject the reasoned amendment. Among other things, the amendment suggests that removing conditional immunity will lead to veterans being dragged before the courts. That is not true. The Conservatives’ failed immunity scheme, which would also have applied to IRA terrorists, was never commenced. All it did was offer a false promise that could never be delivered. Because this amendment is based on such a fundamental misunderstanding about the Bill and the way in which our prosecution system works, I urge the House to reject it.
Veterans were raised by a number of hon. Members. The Government’s commitment to honour Operation Banner veterans is unshakeable. We must not forget that over 1,000 armed forces families lost loved ones during the troubles, and that over 200 investigations into the deaths of armed forces personnel and veterans were shut down by the last Government’s failed legacy Act. In search for answers, those families, as much as any families, deserve a fair, proportionate and transparent system. They would not want for the terrorists who took the lives of brave soldiers to have any form of immunity.
Members talked about our protections. I reiterate that our Bill puts in place strong and important protections that were not included in the failed Tory legacy Act. I thank the Minister for the Armed Forces, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Selly Oak (Al Carns), who is himself a veteran of Northern Ireland, for his close work and attention to put in place these important protections. We have published our fact sheet that details where the protections sit throughout the Bill, so I will not rehearse them all now, given the time I have available.
The hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) asked how we can continue with the remedial order. The Government abandoned their appeal and therefore have the ability to continue with the order. For those, including the right hon. Member for Tonbridge, who talked about morale, I am proud of the protections in the Bill. I am also proud more broadly that this Government have given an important pay rise to our armed forces, and I believe that morale was harmed by the actions of the last Government.
Matthew Patrick
I apologise, but I will not as I am short of time.
The hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar raised the idea of immunity. As I have said in response to the reasoned amendment, we should remember that no veteran ever received immunity—it was undeliverable and a false promise. The conditional immunity championed by the Conservatives would have meant that someone who murdered a UK citizen on UK soil would have walked away scot-free, and that is what they are calling for us to return to.
The right hon. Member for Tonbridge was right when he said that their offer of immunity was pretty abhorrent. As my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham and Penge (Liam Conlon) set out so powerfully, the immunity offer was an insult to the families of those killed and, as my hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Mr Foster) indicated, an insult to veterans too.
On the issue of on-the-run letters, they did not grant immunity—[Interruption.] The case of John Downie was cited as proof. He is currently subject to live criminal proceedings for the murder of two soldiers in 1972, which is clear proof that those letters grant no immunity.
I am grateful to the hon. Members who drew our attention to the voices of victims and survivors. It is important that those families are at the heart of the legislation, and they are. We must ensure that we increase confidence in the new Legacy Commission and enable more families to come forward, which is why we are significantly reforming the commission through this legislation. The Chair of the Select Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), asked about the definition of family members. We believe that the definition set out in clause 93 is right and proportionate.
Clause 8 of the Bill sets up a victims and survivors advisory group, which is designed to ensure that the voices of victims and survivors are heard. The question of who will be appointed to that group was raised by many colleagues, including the right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) and the hon. Member for Wimbledon (Mr Kohler). It is absolutely vital that this group can command confidence, and this Government will therefore not appoint to it anyone who has previously been involved in paramilitary activity. That is a clear commitment made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State from this Dispatch Box.
A number of hon. Members from across the House have raised issues relating to prosecutions. Let me be really clear on this important point: as I have set out, decisions to prosecute are independent. Our judiciary is independent. I disagree with those Members who claim that prosecutions are vexatious or political.
Matthew Patrick
I do not have time.
I now turn to the issue of inquests, which has been raised by hon. Members. As the Government have long committed to, clause 84 makes it clear that a small number of inquests that have been halted by the legacy Act will be able to proceed. Inquests that had not commenced hearings before the legacy Act will be subject to an assessment by the Solicitor General, based on statutory criteria, to determine whether they will be most effectively progressed in the Legacy Commission or in the coronial system. This position reflects the significant role that a reformed Legacy Commission can play in achieving outcomes for families, particularly given its far greater capacity to handle sensitive information when compared with an inquest.
Matthew Patrick
As I have stated, I have a very short amount of time, and I want to address as many of the points that have been made as I am able.
A number of Members, including the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar and the right hon. Member for Belfast East, raised the commitments made by the Irish Government and the role that they will play. The clear commitment of the Irish Government to provide the fullest possible co-operation with the Legacy Commission will help provide many more families with an opportunity to obtain information they have long sought. This partnership represents two Governments coming together, each making sovereign commitments and promising to carry them out in their own jurisdictions. I believe that the Irish Government will honour the promises they have made—the agreement has been signed in good faith, and we are each committed to do what we promised to do independently in our Parliaments.
In the interests of time, I will conclude my remarks. I am grateful to all right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed to this debate—a debate that I know we will continue as the Bill progresses. As we do, I know that we will hold at the forefront of our minds who this is all for: for victims and their families right across the United Kingdom; for all those who bravely served us in intolerable conditions; and for Northern Ireland and its future. I commend the Bill to the House.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
Oral Answers to Questions
Matthew Patrick Excerpts(4 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Alex Ballinger (Halesowen) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
In this role, I am committed to supporting all people across Northern Ireland. From its businesses to its community groups, there is much to champion. I will do all that I can to build on the excellent work of my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson).
The defence industrial strategy is great news for Northern Ireland. We are committed to economic growth that people can feel in their pocket, and the £250 million allocated to five defence growth deals, including one in Northern Ireland, will see its booming defence sector thrive.
Kevin Bonavia
Airbus, which manufactures satellites in my Stevenage constituency, will soon integrate the civil aircraft wing business at the historical Shorts site in Belfast, close to where Thales tests its satellites and produces vital missiles for Ukraine. Will the Minister work with colleagues across Government and the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure that the defence industrial strategy is complemented by the industrial strategy’s advanced manufacturing sector plan so as to maximise skills, innovation and growth?
Matthew Patrick
My hon. Friend is right to highlight the rich expertise in Northern Ireland’s defence sector, which brings benefits right across the UK, including to Stevenage. I assure him that the Secretary of State and I will work across Government and with the Executive to ensure a joined-up approach that benefits Northern Ireland.
Alex Ballinger
I am incredibly proud of our naval engineering history in the Black Country, including at companies such as Somers Forge in Halesowen and Brooks Forgings in Cradley Heath. I am delighted that this Labour Government are increasing defence spending to levels never seen under the previous Government. Does the Minister agree that that investment in Northern Ireland, at places such as Harland & Wolff, will not just benefit the local economy there but the supply chain all across the country?
Matthew Patrick
My hon. Friend is right. I warmly welcome this investment and I know he is rightly proud of the defence expertise in his constituency. Backed by this Labour Government increasing defence spending to 2.5%, Harland & Wolff is building the next generation of support ships for our Royal Navy. We are safeguarding jobs, skills and our future security.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
I welcome both the Minister to his place and the defence growth deal. Does he agree that he now needs to work with the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure that the supply chain in Northern Ireland extends beyond Harland & Wolff and the greater Belfast area, so that everyone in Northern Ireland can benefit from what is potentially a life-changing development for industry there?
Matthew Patrick
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his warm words. He is right that we need to work across Northern Ireland to ensure that the life-changing investment he mentions is felt throughout, and I will make sure that happens.
Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)
May I welcome the Minister to his place as well? Will he ensure that there is that co-working across the Northern Ireland Executive and the Ministry of Defence with regard to the Executive’s investment strategy, which is also integral to the defence industrial strategy, and that the NIE will work to remove any blockages that would prevent the two being merged?
Matthew Patrick
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his warm words. I will meet Executive Ministers in Northern Ireland next week to discuss this and other matters. I will ensure that we remove any blockages that we can, and that we do so by working together.
John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)