HS2

Grant Shapps Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Lidington (Aylesbury) (Con)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on the Government’s review of HS2.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)]

This is my first time at the Dispatch Box as Secretary of State for Transport and I welcome the opportunity to update the House on HS2.

There is no future in obscuring the cost-benefits or timetable of HS2, so on 21 August I announced an independent cross-party review, led by Douglas Oakervee, of whether and how HS2 should or should not proceed. The review will consider the project’s affordability, deliverability, benefits, scope and phasing, including its relationship with Northern Powerhouse Rail. The chair will be supported by a deputy chair, Lord Berkeley, and a panel of experts from business, academia and transport to ensure that its assessment programme is independent, thorough and objective. Some of the individuals on the panel have been passionate advocates and others have been vocal critics of the project, but they will provide input to and be consulted on the report’s conclusions.

The review is under way and will report to me on time this autumn. I will discuss its findings with the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, and its recommendations will help to inform our decisions on the next step or otherwise for this project.

Colleagues will be aware that on our first day back, 3 September, I placed in the House advice that I received over the summer from the recently appointed chairman of HS2 Ltd, Allan Cook, on the cost and deliverability of the current scheme. He has said that he does not believe that the current scheme can be delivered within the budget of £55.7 billion, set at 2015 prices. He estimates that it requires a total budget, including contingency, in the range of £72 billion to £78 billion, again set at 2015 prices. The chairman does not believe that the current schedule of 2026 will be met for the initial services of phase 1. He does not think that that is realistic.

In line with lessons from other large major transport infrastructure projects, the chairman’s advice proposes a range of start dates rather than a specific one. He recommends 2028-31 for phase 1, starting with initial services between London Old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon Street, followed by services to and from London Euston later. He expects phase 2b—the full high-speed line to Manchester and Leeds—to be open between 2035 and 2040.

The chairman is also of the view that the benefits of the current scheme are substantially undervalued. All those matters will now be considered by Douglas Oakervee within the scope of Oakervee review.

When I announced the independent review into HS2, I said that I want Doug Oakervee and his panel to assess independently the findings and other available existing evidence. The review will provide recommendations on whether and how we proceed.

I wish to make one further, wider point. Everyone in the House knows that we must invest in modern infrastructure to ensure the future prosperity of our nation. However, it is right that we subject every single project to the most rigorous scrutiny possible. If we are truly to maximise every opportunity, this must always be done with an open mind and a clean sheet of paper.

[Mr Lidington]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on his new responsibilities and welcome the review that the Government have set up.

I have three questions for my right hon. Friend. First, in view of this week’s revelation that HS2 is overrunning both its budget and its schedule—something that many of us have been predicting for a long time but that has been systematically denied for years by HS2 Ltd and by his Department—what assurance can my right hon. Friend give about the transparency of both the review that has been commissioned and the Government’s formal response to it?

Secondly, my right hon. Friend will know that enabling works for HS2 are still being carried out along phase 1 of the route. Ancient woodlands are being felled. Productive farmland is being occupied and used by HS2 Ltd. Public money is being spent on these works even though, as my right hon. Friend says, the review may lead to a recommendation to cancel or significantly change the project altogether. Will the Secretary of State now accept that those works are prejudicial to the outcome of the review that he has established and order that they cease?

Thirdly, I have a queue of constituents whose land has been taken by HS2 Ltd for preparatory works, but who have still to receive the payments that were formally agreed with HS2 Ltd. The Government have rightly committed to crack down on late payment. Does my right hon. Friend agree that HS2 Ltd should be setting an example in this regard, not acting as a laggard? As he, as Secretary of State, is the sole shareholder in HS2 Ltd, will he now take responsibility for insisting that HS2 Ltd puts this injustice right immediately?

[Grant Shapps]

First, on the budget and the schedule, it is exactly as I said in my opening statement: I completely agree with my right hon. Friend that there is no future in trying to obscure costs or in being unclear. It is the case that in a massive, developing infrastructure project—Europe’s biggest—costs just are not known. They are speculated about and then start to firm up, in this case, literally as we start to dig into the ground. I can see how over a period of time things move. None the less, I take the view that as soon as I have the information, I will inform the House—as soon as I got that Cook report and the House returned, I stuck it straight into the Library. I assure my right hon. Friend that I will continue to do exactly that going forward.

Secondly, it might be helpful to colleagues to know that I have asked for Douglas Oakervee to meet Members of Parliament. He will be in Committee Room 2A on Monday 9 September, between 3.30 pm and 5 pm. That is an opportunity for any colleagues to go and see him. Colleagues can make their own arrangements with him separately, and I will inform the House of that.

Thirdly, on the enabling works, we are in a position where I have to make a go/no-go decision in December. I know that this will not a delight my right hon. Friend, but it seemed to me that if we did not continue to make preparatory works, I would not even be in the position to make a go/no-go decision. I am sorry to disappoint my right hon. Friend, but that is the current position. We can then take a decision.

I share my right hon. Friend’s concern and anxiety about compulsory purchase order payments. When people’s lives, livelihoods and homes are potentially going to be ripped apart by a project that is supposedly for the wider good, it is right that the state compensates them promptly and efficiently. I would be most grateful to see more details of the cases he mentioned. I have already had one across my desk, which I have sorted out, and I would like to see others. There is no excuse for a CPO for which people are not paid.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

I, too, congratulate the Secretary of State on his appointment and welcome him to his place. He comes into post at a time of crisis for the country, but at an absolutely critical moment for HS2.

I gently remind the Secretary of State that we did ask for regular reports and recommended a peer review when phase 2a was before the House some weeks ago. I am sorry that he was not able to vote for that—or, indeed, that the Prime Minister was not able to express a view at all.

The Secretary of State mentioned that the review that is under way is a cross-party one, but I gently point out that there has been no consultation whatever with me. If it is to be genuinely cross-party, perhaps he might want to take up that invitation.

We have consistently been told by the Secretary of State’s predecessor and the then ministerial team that the 2015 figure of £55.7 billion for the entire project was the full cost of HS2 and that there was no reason to change it. It is hard to conclude anything other than that it has been plain and obvious for some considerable time that this was not accurate. Will the Transport Secretary tell us when his predecessor was told that the figure of £55.7 billion was not accurate or sustainable and when he was first told that the timetable for delivery could not be adhered to?

Is this not yet more evidence that this Government have totally failed to exercise any control over the project—not just over costs, but with regard to redundancy payments and key appointments that transpired to be unsustainable? In addition, when the contracts for phase 1 were being granted, despite hedge fund managers making a packet out of the inevitable demise of Carillion, this Tory Government crashed on regardless, awarding the doomed organisation a valuable HS2 contract.

It is beyond doubt that the Government have been totally incompetent and reckless, but, worse than that, there hangs over this Government the unpleasant smell that Parliament may have been misled—however unwittingly—given that it is stark staringly obvious that when the Minister responsible for HS2 stood at the Dispatch Box a matter of weeks ago to tell the House that there was only one figure and one figure alone for HS2 that assertion was completely and totally inaccurate. If there is going to be delay, what assurances can the Secretary of State give to the 9,000 people currently employed by HS2?

This Government continue to be characterised by a lack of transparency. I welcome the Secretary of State’s remarks that he intends to put that right, but it still remains, as does a lack of candour. Once we can be assured that there is no prospect of the Government reneging on the legislation to avoid a no-deal Brexit, Labour relishes the prospect of a general election to turf them out.

[Grant Shapps]

On regular reports, I will come back to the House as many times as it is prepared to hear about this matter, and I will continue to update Members in every possible way. It might be helpful if I were to make the introduction—if the hon. Gentleman has not already had it—to Doug Oakervee; perhaps I could organise for the hon. Gentleman to meet him separately. Of course, there are cross-party members on the review panel and it is genuinely full of sceptics. I think people were surprised when we launched a review of this project that had such a broad, cross-party view.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that prices have changed over time. I seem to recall that this was originally a project by the previous Labour Government and that when it was conceived the whole thing was going to cost about £13 billion. One of the issues that we have, which is a wider issue than just HS2, is that these things start off being fixed at a price of a particular period of time—the figure of £55.7 billion was about 2015 prices—and that does not actually allow for inflation. We therefore end up quoting prices that are just out of date. On that basis, every project will always be said to have overrun on cost, although of course the benefits probably improve as well. We have to find better ways of doing all this.

I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that the first time that I received advice on this matter was Allan Cook’s final report on 1 August, and that is the report that I published. Finally, I undertake to ensure that we return to the House with every update that we have, and I encourage the hon. Gentleman to be involved in the Oakervee review.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Mr Speaker, I was just about to say that there are Members affected by this project who do not have a voice, and I was going to include you, but clearly that is not the case. Of course, there is also my right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom), who has always joined me in the fight against HS2.

In welcoming the Secretary of State to his position, may I also welcome my constituency neighbour, my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington)? It is so good to hear his voice raised in this Chamber against this dreadful project, and I endorse everything he said. It applies to my constituency as well.

The Secretary of State also needs to look at the national rail travel survey, on which one of the raisons d’être for this project is based, but which has not been updated since 2010. In answers to me, the Department does not appear to know how much it would cost to update it. That, coupled with the fact that we are still not allowed to see the passenger forecasting documentation, means that transparency is far from the watchword of HS2. Pages right the way through the chairman’s stocktake have been redacted. Transparency is not the order of the day.

The Secretary of State should grasp with both hands this opportunity to review the project entirely and review the nationwide transport and communication policy. I urge him to take a deep breath and carry out a comprehensive assessment across car, bus, train and air, as well as new technologies such as 5G and broadband, because it is essential that we look at the technological advances before we let this project go any further.

As the carriages being built for Crossrail pile up in Worksop because we cannot get that project right, let us draw a deep breath, cancel this project, start again and get a decent comprehensive transport policy.

[Grant Shapps]

I know that Douglas Oakervee will have been listening to my right hon. Friend’s words with great interest and will no doubt take into account the national rail travel survey information. She will of course meet him as well. I will just reflect on her final point—because of course Douglas Oakervee is looking at all this—about all forms of travel across the country. I entirely agree with her. Having ordered it two years ago, I recently got an electric car. It finally arrived a couple of weeks ago. It is clear that transport is changing in this country and that we have to take a more holistic view of it. Rail is one part, but there is much else to consider.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

I, too, welcome the Secretary of State to his new position. He must be so thankful to have inherited another failing Grayling legacy.

We know that the increased costs and delays have been covered up since 2016 and denied at the Dispatch Box, so, while I welcome the review, should there not be an inquiry into this hiding of key information from the House? While I welcome the review, I find it strange that about a third of the document that sets out its terms has been redacted. Can he explain why?

What changes will be made to the cost-benefit criteria, and why? While the Secretary of State said that many of the benefits of the scheme were previously underestimated, I would remind him that the business case rested on the assumption that time business people spent travelling by train should be treated as downtime, meaning that shorter train journeys were treated as increasing productive time, when clearly that is not the case now that we have wi-fi on the go. Will he confirm that that aspect of the business case will not be over-egged?

The current proposals also mean that journeys north of Crewe to Scotland will be slower than the existing Virgin service. Will the review look at that and perhaps a different type of rolling stock? If it does, what will that mean for the existing rolling stock and ongoing procurement? What further reviews and cost-benefit analyses will be done of track design that could mean slower high-speed trains but reduced costs? What is the contractual status of the recent contract awards to First Trenitalia, given that the Government might now be doing a full stock decision? What would that mean for that contract? What is the committed spend, to date, in the Barnett allocations to Scotland, and what will happen going forward? We were promised at the Dispatch Box that on day one of the high-speed trains operating they would go all the way to Scotland, and that is now not the case. Will the Secretary of State answer those questions and, if not, please put his responses in writing?

[Grant Shapps]

I hope the hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I write to him on some of that, rather than detain the House on all of it. He is absolutely right about the Allan Cook report. I should have mentioned that in response to my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Dame Cheryl Gillan). I am unhappy about having any of that report redacted. I have read the rest of it. It is not hugely exciting. I pushed back on that with the Department, and apparently it is just that the lawyers are saying that it is commercially confidential stuff that I cannot force to be released. I totally agree with the hon. Gentleman that it would be much better if we could read every single page, but that is the law. [Interruption.] I do not disagree—it is just that lawyers will not allow it to happen.

On downtime when travelling, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Lots of people work very productively when travelling. It is my favourite time to work uninterrupted. I can assure him that Doug Oakervee will look at that. Allan Cook referred to some of the build benefits where there could be new industry, homes and so on in an area where a line runs.

The last point I will comment on—I will write to the hon. Gentleman about the rest—is the implications for the west coast partnership. That is very important. Under the contract, I think in 2026—that it would be in line with if HS2 went ahead—the company would become a shadow operator, so it is built into that contract if the thing goes ahead.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

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[Grant Shapps]

I am not short of advice on what to do on HS2, but few pieces of advice come from somebody as distinguished as a former Transport Secretary. I have heard what he has had to say, as I know Doug Oakervee will have done, and I look forward to taking it into account.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his place.

The Secretary of State must understand the huge disappointment in the east midlands that HS2 phase 2b —which will, as the right hon. Member for Derbyshire Dales (Sir Patrick McLoughlin) said, transform connectivity between Birmingham and the economies of the midlands, Yorkshire, the north-east and Scotland—is now facing a delay of up to seven years, or even cancellation. That is particularly the case when the Chancellor failed to even mention the midlands rail hub in his spending review and when the Secretary of State’s predecessor not only repeatedly assured us that HS2 would happen but cancelled the electrification of the midland main line. I know that the Oakervee review is due to report, but the disappointment will turn to deep anger if the Secretary of State does not ensure that the midlands receives the investment in its transport that it needs.

[Grant Shapps]

I thank the hon. Lady; it is a pleasure to have a question from the Chair of the Transport Committee. The one thing I can assure her of is that there will be £48 billion of other unrelated rail investment over the next few years, so both the midlands and the northern powerhouse rail side of things will certainly have huge—massive—investment.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. First, I welcome the Secretary of State to his new position. Secondly, I entirely endorse the views of my right hon. Friends the Members for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington) and for Chesham and Amersham (Dame Cheryl Gillan). The reality is that this whole project is completely out of control. The costs have gone up repeatedly. I voted against it. There is a petition in the House of Lords, which my constituents were absolutely right to pursue. This whole project is a complete white elephant and should be cancelled.

[Grant Shapps]

As I say, I am not short of advice on this, and Doug Oakervee will definitely have heard my hon. Friend’s words.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I will try to be brief, Mr Speaker. I have always been against this. I was reviled by Ministers when I said that the cost would end up at £100 billion. I wanted the investment in a network across the north of England in preference to this. Will the Secretary of State assure me that we will learn the lessons? This is a great sector that we do wonderful things in. We built the Olympics on time, and it was magnificent. I understand that there are 12 gagging orders for senior former employees of HS2 Ltd. Can they give evidence to this inquiry, and can we ensure that we learn the lessons? We are good in this sector, so why has this gone wrong?

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[Grant Shapps]

Even with the Olympics, the cost changed over a period. The hon. Gentleman will know that big projects require management, and the process is designed to ensure that this is properly grasped. I agree with him—we need to deliver that transport infrastructure across the north. I am surprised that no Member has mentioned it yet, but these two questions are not entirely unrelated, so we must get it right for the north and for all our country.

[Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

I am not sure it is the entirely appropriate expression to congratulate my right hon. Friend on inheriting responsibility for HS2, but I wholeheartedly congratulate him on becoming the Secretary of State. In agreeing entirely with what my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington) said, may I press the Secretary State on the point he made about enabling works? As he knows, there is more than one kind of enabling work currently under way. Some of the enabling work is the destruction of ancient woodland sites. There are seven of them in my constituency, along with a very old and much valued pear tree in the village of Cubbington. Given that he has announced an all-options review, including the possibility that this project will be cancelled or significantly revised, surely it is possible and sensible to categorise those types of enabling work that will do irreversible damage and postpone them until the review has concluded. He has already announced a substantial delay in this project. Surely a delay of a few weeks more would be sensible, to ensure that we do not do irreversible damage.

[Grant Shapps]

As I said before, to have a proper go/no-go decision, we need to continue to allow enabling works. However, I can ask the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), who is handling these major projects, to meet my right hon. and learned Friend to discuss that specific concern.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Unlike Derbyshire Dales, HS2 goes through many villages in the Bolsover and north-east Derbyshire area. The result is that there are a lot of people in those villages—more than 100—affected by HS2. I want to know as soon as possible just exactly what is going to happen to this £100 billion project. It goes through Derbyshire on two separate lines. Not only does it go past Sheffield; it also stops at a Sheffield station, so there is a slow track and a fast track in Derbyshire. The idea that HS2 is based upon getting to London 30 minutes sooner is a joke and, for that reason, the Secretary of State should start over again.

[Grant Shapps]

I know that the hon. Gentleman’s constituency is affected in a big way. I refer to what I said before. This project affects a lot of people’s lives, with demolitions and the rest of it in his patch. He asked me to do this as soon as possible. I have Douglas Oakervee on an unbelievable timetable, supported by a fantastic group of people, to get this done and reported back this autumn. The hon. Gentleman will not have to wait before the end of the year.

[Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)]

Long Eaton, Sandiacre and Stanton Gate are grossly affected by the eastern arm of HS2, but as the Chair of the Transport Committee has already indicated, it brings advantages as well—jobs and growth as well as the pain. I will say two things. One is that any delay causes further stress and uncertainty not just for residents, but for businesses. They will be blighted for ever more, even if my right hon. Friend takes the easier way out and cancels the eastern arm. My plea to him is: do not cancel that eastern arm. I will not allow the east midlands and Erewash to be the poor relations yet again.

[Grant Shapps]

I think every exchange indicates that, while everyone is able to welcome a review, when we get to the announcement of that review on the other side the House will not be quite so united, but I absolutely hear my hon. Friend’s comments.

[Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

Inflation aside, this multi-billion increase in cost betrays nothing other than sheer incompetence in the management of this project. In the west midlands, 100,000 jobs are now in jeopardy; hundreds of millions of pounds of new rates are now in jeopardy; and the future prospects of the younger generation are now in jeopardy. I want to know from the Secretary of State what compensation has been sought by the Mayor of the West Midlands, because my understanding is that he has asked for precisely nothing?

[Grant Shapps]

We have a range of different people on the Doug Oakervee board, including Andy Street, and we are making sure that all the representations go into it. As I say, I do not want to rush to prejudge this. We do know certain things. We know from the Allan Cook report about the range of £72 billion to £78 billion. I do not have confidence in the data I have been provided with to know yet whether the benefits have outstripped or under-stripped these various different costs. I just start with a blank sheet of paper. I just want the data: give me the facts and then we will be in a much better position to decide, including for people throughout the west midlands.

[Victoria Prentis (Banbury) (Con)]

I am sure I was as pleased as you were, Mr Speaker, to hear about the review undertaken by the new Secretary of State. Can he reassure me that, as part of the new cost-benefit analysis, the review will take into account that many people work very hard while on trains, as I am about to do as I return to my constituency on a high-speed train run by Chiltern Rail?

[Grant Shapps]

Absolutely. Travelling on a train can be a fantastic way to chomp through constituency work or anything else that people are doing on business or for pleasure. It is one of the most civilised ways to work—when we have our trains running on time, which is another related priority.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

Will the Government widen this review not just to their complete lack of grip on the HS2 project, but to the continued failure of the Department to remember that there are towns as well as cities in this country? It is continually locking billions of pounds into ever-delayed, ever-escalating projects for cities, while towns such as Castleford and Pontefract have inadequate trains—overcrowded, old Pacer trains, with no disabled access to our trains—and, once again, we are just expected to accept a trickle-down of benefits many decades into the future. It is not good enough. When will we actually get a fair deal for our towns?

[Grant Shapps]

As the representative of two towns—one, Welwyn Garden, calls itself a city, but it is actually a town—I absolutely agree with the idea that towns have a significant part to play in the economic and social life of our country. One good piece of news: those Pacers are finally going by the end of this year.[Official Report, 9 September 2019, Vol. 664, c. 5MC.]

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

At what level of exorbitant expenditure will the Government finally decide to pull the plug?

[Grant Shapps]

As I say, it is not just a question of the expenditure. As I mentioned before, it is also what the benefits are. May I ask my right hon. Friend just to be patient enough so that the data is covered on both sides of that, and we can come to a rational and sensible decision?

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

Will the Secretary of State commit to look at any new major transport infrastructure projects in line with the 2050 net zero carbon target that this House has set itself?

[Grant Shapps]

Yes.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

There is a north-south divide when it comes to transport spending. Can the Secretary of State give an assurance that he will consider the benefits to the northern economy when he reaches his decision?

[Grant Shapps]

Absolutely.

[Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)]

What is the status of the review if we go to the polls this autumn? My constituents see this as a pre-election bribe for the Government’s voters in the shires.

[Grant Shapps]

This project is too serious to be thinking in those terms, and I certainly was not when I asked Douglas Oakervee to carry out this review. As I have now said twice, this is about people’s lives and livelihoods and the ability of this country’s economy to function. Regardless of what happens when we finally get that election call, I hope there will be cross-party consensus to continue this important work on a cross-party basis and get the job done.

[Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State look at the cost envelope by taking into account enhancements that benefit those on the route, inflation and incompetence?

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[Grant Shapps]

As the terms of reference, which I encourage right hon. and hon. Members to read, make clear, this review is wide ranging and takes all such matters into account.

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Given the delays to the southern section of the route, will the Secretary of State ask the review to consider the possibility of starting the northern sections before the southern section is finished, so that there is a degree of working overlap?

[Grant Shapps]

That is one of the things that Douglas Oakervee is looking at. Interestingly, Allan Cook’s report, which is in the Library, suggests doing phases 1 and 2a together.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

I agree with my right hon. Friend that spiralling costs must be challenged and held to account, but this project is vital for the northern routes, which are already overstretched. Will he assure me that this review is not just a smokescreen to cancel the project, which many of our current Executive do not like?

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend’s question reminds me of a clip that I made on the day of announcing this full, thorough and open review. When the camera was switched off they said, “What do you really think?” What I really think is that we should have a full, thorough and open review.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

Business leaders in Sheffield are deeply concerned about this review. Does the Secretary of State recognise that, whatever else he is considering, cancellation would damage the northern economy?

[Grant Shapps]

I assure the hon. Gentleman that, whatever happens, the northern economy and northern powerhouse rail is set to steam ahead.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

Will the review take into account the potential negative effects of the business case on the existing and vital west coast main line?

[Grant Shapps]

Yes it will, and I ask my hon. Friend to meet Douglas Oakervee to make those points, because every element of this is being taken into account.

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Are there not many abandoned former railway lines across the country for which, for the first time in a long time, there is now extensive demand? Those could be reopened for a fraction of the cost of HS2.

[Grant Shapps]

With huge respect to him, I curse Beeching every day in this job and I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman.

[Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)]

What will be the effect of a delay or cancellation of HS2 on the west coast main line, which is of concern to my constituents in Rugby?

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[Grant Shapps]

I do not think there is any direct ramification. We have just re-let the west coast partnership contract, so the answer to my hon. Friend is, none.

[Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)]

HS2 is vital for the economy of Manchester and the north. As the chairman’s stocktake says:

“HS2 is not a standalone railway but rather an integral part of ambitious regional growth plans,”

and it is already attracting investment. Will the Secretary of State assure us that those wider benefits will fully be taken into account in this review?

[Grant Shapps]

I can. I have met the Mayor of Manchester and Mayors across the north, and I am due to meet them again shortly. Those things absolutely will be taken into account.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

I voted against HS2 every time. Would the money be better spent on improvements to our existing conventional rail network?

[Grant Shapps]

The answer is that I do not know, but I like to think that £48 billion on improving and upgrading our existing networks is a good down payment.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

The Under-Secretary of State for Transport assured me that the full stretch of HS2 will go up to Scotland. Is that the case, and when?

[Grant Shapps]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, we are currently struggling with stages 1, 2a and 2b, but the overall plan was always to go further.

[Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State commit to investing in the costs of places with collateral damage, such as villages such as Woore in my constituency that will suffer grievously during the construction process? Will he also commit to look at the value of spending £100 billion, which this project is cantering towards, on full-fibre broadband for every household?

[Grant Shapps]

We must have full-fibre broadband in every household, and that is a commitment of this Government regardless. My right hon. Friend describes devastation to villages, and I agree that we must find a better way of doing this. We must look after people properly when great national projects drive through their homes.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Significant UK and Welsh Government money, linked to HS2 at Crewe, is going into growth deals in north Wales. What opportunities are there for the Welsh Government to formally feed into the review?

[Grant Shapps]

There are enormous opportunities. If not on Monday, at the time I mentioned at the Dispatch Box earlier, then separately I am very happy to hook up the right hon. Gentleman, and any of his colleagues, with Doug Oakervee.

[Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

HS2 will be the most expensive railway ever built by mankind. Does the Secretary of State agree that there is a very significant opportunity cost and therefore to get bang for our buck we should be investing in significant regional infrastructure projects?

[Grant Shapps]

That is very effective lobbying. My hon. Friend has already secured a great achievement with regards to the railway on his own Island. He proves that we can do both things simultaneously if we need to.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

The key rail investment in the north has to be a high-speed link between Liverpool in the west and Hull in the east. Is it not right that any additional resources should be put into that, rather than HS2?

[Grant Shapps]

I would extend that further to Sheffield, Hull, Newcastle and other cities in the north. We can do both things and we will do both things: both upgrading the national rail infrastructure and—the Prime Minister mentioned this in his first speech, which he made in Manchester, so I think it would be a bit churlish not to recognise it—linking northern cities.

[Dr David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op)]

The problem with HS2 is that the benefits are not shared around the country. The west, in particular, gains nothing. Will the Secretary of State look at how we could put the money into electrification and rebuilding the Severn tunnel?

[Grant Shapps]

I do not know in what form this will or will not take place, but I do know that the jobs, skills and supply chain affect the entire nation. There is almost not a constituency in the country that would not benefit in some way. As with any big national infrastructure project, we need to ensure that the benefits of that work and supply chain are spread across the nation.

[Laura Smith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)]

Given that the entire review will be completed in a matter of weeks, can the Secretary of State really have confidence that it will have thoroughly considered the impacts that scrapping or changing phases 2a and 2b would have on Crewe and Nantwich, as a significant centre of economic activity for the wider region?

[Grant Shapps]

Yes, I think I can reassure the hon. Lady that, although the review is reporting very quickly—within weeks, as she says—the experience on the panel adds up to years. I have not added it up, but it is possibly hundreds of years of rail experience. I think they will really take that into account. Again, I invite and welcome her to speak to Douglas Oakervee to make sure 2a and 2b are fully represented in her terms.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

Can the Secretary of State give us a date for when we can expect HS2 to be extended to Scotland? If not, are the people of Scotland expected to sit and watch £100 billion being spent on this project when it literally pulls up short?

[Grant Shapps]

I do not want to disappoint the hon. Lady, but I cannot give her a date on the initial phases, let alone on that extension. I do think there is a very good point here about linking up our Union. I am pleased to see the nationalist side so onside with that project.

[Mr Paul Sweeney (Glasgow North East) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State mentions the extension to Scotland. However, journey times between Glasgow and Manchester will increase as a result of HS2. Will he ask the review to consider expediting an extension north to Glasgow from Manchester as a matter of urgency?

[Grant Shapps]

Again, I think this comes into the wider picture. The £48 billion of rail investment over five years means that we should be able to do lots of different things at the same time—and indeed, we are. I think that is part of the wider infrastructure project for improvements on rail throughout the country.

HS2

Grant Shapps Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps)]

The Prime Minister and I have been clear about the potential for transport investment to drive growth, redistribute opportunity and support towns and cities across the UK. But we have been equally clear that the costs and benefits of those investments must stack up.

The Government announced on 21 August 2019 an independent, cross-party review led by Douglas Oakervee into whether and how HS2 should proceed. The review will consider its affordability, deliverability, benefits, scope and phasing, including its relationship with Northern Powerhouse Rail. I have published the terms of reference in full on gov.uk.

The chair will be supported by a deputy chair, Lord Berkeley, and a panel of experts from business, academia and transport to ensure an independent, thorough and objective assessment of the programme. Panellists will provide input to, and be consulted on, the report’s conclusions.

The review will report to me this autumn. I will discuss its findings with the Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer. Its recommendations will inform our decisions on our next steps.

HS2 is the single largest project of this Government. One important aspect of the panel’s work is to consider whether both the costs, and the benefits, of the scheme have been correctly identified. HS2’s business case has been founded on increasing capacity on our constrained rail network, improving connectivity, and stimulating economic growth and regeneration. The current budget was established in 2013 and later adjusted to 2015 prices. Since that time, significant concerns have been raised.

I want the House to have the full picture. There is no future in obscuring the true costs of a large infrastructure project—as well as the potential benefits.

The recently appointed chairman of HS2 Ltd, Allan Cook, provided his advice to me on the cost and deliverability of the current scheme shortly after my appointment as Transport Secretary—and I want the House to have the full details at the earliest opportunity. I am determined to set out everything that is currently known, so I have today placed a copy of the advice in the Libraries of both Houses. This has only been redacted where commercially necessary, and the Oakervee review panel will of course see the report in full.

Colleagues will see that the chairman of HS2 does not believe that the current scheme design can be delivered within the budget of £55.7 billion, set in 2015 prices. Instead he estimates that the current scheme requires a total budget—including contingency—in the range of £72 to £78 billion, again in 2015 prices.

Regarding schedule, the chairman does not believe the current schedule of 2026 for initial services on phase 1 is realistic. In line with lessons from other major transport infrastructure projects, his advice proposes a range of dates for the start of service. He recommends 2028 to 2031 for phase 1—with a staged opening, starting with initial services between London Old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon Street, followed by services to and from London Euston later. He expects phase 2b, the full high-speed line to Manchester and Leeds, to open between 2035 and 2040.

He has also suggested that phase 2a, west midlands to Crewe, could be delivered to the same timetable as phase 1, subject to parliamentary approval. Finally, he is of the view that the benefits of the current scheme are substantially undervalued. HS2 Ltd continues to refine its estimates of cost, benefits and schedule. All these will be considered within the scope of the Oakervee review.

I said when I announced the independent review into HS2 that I now want Doug Oakervee and his panel to assess independently these findings from the chairman of HS2 Ltd and other available evidence. That review will provide independent recommendations on whether and how we proceed with the project.

Furthermore, the costs and benefits of HS2 have been quoted in 2015 prices since the last spending review. While this allows a stable set of numbers to compare against, it also risks being misconstrued and understating the relative cost of the project, and indeed its benefits.

I therefore think it is worth also updating the House in current prices. Adjusting by construction cost inflation, the range set out in Allan Cook’s report is equivalent to £81 to £88 billion in 2019 prices, against a budget equivalent to £62.4 billion.

To be clear, these additions do not represent an increase in the project’s underlying costs, and are largely a point of presentation. Nonetheless, I will discuss with the Chancellor the case for updating the costs and benefits of HS2 to current prices to ensure transparency. Again, this is another reason for an independent review.

During the short period in which the independent review completes its work I have authorised HS2 Ltd to continue the current works that are taking place on the project. This will ensure we are ready to proceed without further delay for the main construction stage of phase 1 in the event that the Government choose to continue. Similarly, I intend to continue to progress the next stages of the hybrid Bill for phase 2a, west midlands to Crewe, in the House of Lords while the review is ongoing.

This update is intended to provide colleagues with the information they require about the current status of the HS2 programme. An independent review is now under way to give us the facts about the costs of the HS2 project. I want to be clear with colleagues that there is no future for a project like this without being transparent and open, so we will be candid when challenges emerge. Therefore, as soon as I have a clear sense of the costs and benefits from Doug Oakervee’s review I will update the House.

In the same spirit, my permanent secretary has today written to the National Audit Office, offering my Department’s support—in their inquiry already under way—in auditing not only the project’s cost and schedule pressures, but the steps taken in response to these.

We all in this House know we must invest in modern infrastructure to ensure the future prosperity of our country and its people. We look back to past achievements with a sense of pride—from the canals and railways that ensured the UK led the world into the industrial revolution, to the space ports and launch sites we are now considering that will make the UK a global leader in space. These endeavours both inspire and improve the quality of our everyday lives. It is therefore right that we subject every project to the most rigorous scrutiny; and if we are to truly maximise every opportunity, this must always be done with an open mind and a clean sheet of paper.

The attachment can be viewed online at http://www. parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2019-09-03/HCWS1809/.

[HCWS1809]

Govia: Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City Railway

Grant Shapps Excerpts

Tuesday 18th December 2018 Westminster Hall

[Grant Shapps (Welwyn Hatfield) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the performance of Govia on the Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City railway line.

It is a pleasure to start this debate under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I am pleased to have the opportunity to discuss an issue that, although I suspect it will not fill this second Chamber, is none the less of enormous concern to my constituents and thousands, perhaps even millions, of people along the line from Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City. I should say that, although the title of the debate is the train service from Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City, there is also an impact from other services that run along the same line, specifically and in particular the King’s Cross service toward Cambridge and through my constituency.

Unfortunately, although the problems are in no small part to do with changes that were made, rather infamously, to the timetabling in May this year, that is not the whole story. I see that I first raised my concerns about the quality of this service all the way back in December 2016, when I called for a much improved service from Govia. It is most certainly the case, however, that since the May timetable change services have gone from pretty bad to disastrously awful. I will take a few moments to highlight some of the things that have gone wrong.

It cannot be right, in a timetable change intended to add 6,000 additional carriages to the train network and the services enjoyed by everybody, that in my constituency the service provided went backwards, in terms of not just the number of trains, but the speed of those trains. In a café that I am sure is frequented by many of my constituents, I came across a poster from the 1930s about coming to live in Welwyn Garden City—the second and, I should say, the best garden city in the country—boasting that people can get from Welwyn Garden City to King’s Cross in just 23 minutes. Here we are in 2018, about to go into 2019, and we can no longer make the journey at that kind of speed. It now takes seven minutes longer to get into London from that station, Welwyn Garden City. The speed of service is certainly a problem, but the problem is not just the speed of service.

We also now have fewer trains, particularly off peak, such that some stations—for example Welham Green and Brookmans Park, stations that I use regularly—have gone from having three trains an hour off peak to only two. The service has become less frequent. In other places in my constituency, particularly Welwyn North and particularly at the weekend, that drops back to one train an hour—a completely unacceptable level of service.

The problem is not only slower trains and those missing trains, but a poorer service all round, particularly from the larger stations, Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City, which are suffering. I have been inundated—and I mean inundated—with correspondence from my constituents, who are upset and concerned. At the height of the timetabling problems in the summer, some even had to give up their jobs as a result of this appalling level of service. While I accept that the Minister— who by the way I consider entirely blameless in all this, since he has only been in the job for a few weeks—will get to his feet and reassure me that things are improving, I must say that my patience has already given way and I have been looking for a suitable alternative.

Fortunately, there is an example of an alternative that could be put in place to resolve many of the problems. I have been in continuous discussion with Transport for London, which is keen to take over the service. I know that TfL has been in contact with the Minister’s predecessor, if not the Minister as yet, and certainly with the Secretary of State for discussion, and has written a detailed note in which it points out that if it were to run the service from Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City as a London Overground service, it could offer us better integration into the railway network, faster trains, more trains, cleaner platforms and a service integrated across the entire information system—in other words, when we are looking at information for the reliability of services, we are looking at the entire TfL system in one go.

I think that would make a significant impact on the quality and level of services to my constituency. It is of course the case that to get to my constituency, those services must run through several other stations along the line that are outside my patch, so I have been in active conversation with and writing to Members of Parliament across parties and right down the track from Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City, to seek their opinions. It is probably true to say that the concerns that have been raised in the past have been about where the Transport for London services would run outside London boroughs. That actually occurs in only two constituencies—that of my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Oliver Dowden) and mine. The concern is effectively that TfL would be in charge of services over which our constituents would have no democratic control.

Would it be the case that TfL running that line would somehow remove from my constituents the ability to hold both the franchiser and the franchisee—the organising department, in the case of TfL—to account? Not in my view. We are more than happy to take on the small risk that, because we are not Greater London taxpayers, the Mayor’s office might attempt to totally ignore our views. I simply do not accept that that would be the case, and I bring evidence.

London Overground lines run by TfL and Arriva Rail London already go into my county of Hertfordshire and elsewhere. I have taken the time and trouble to speak to Members for and residents of those areas, and none have said that they somehow feel ignored because they happen to be just outside London. Many report a quite dramatic increase in service quality as a result of the lines switching to TfL. I have some figures that back that up.

The lines that TfL has taken over and changed to London Overground lines have seen an increased frequency of trains, from 400 per day in 2007 to 1,500 per day 10 years later. Ridership has increased by 650%, delays have decreased by 30% and customer satisfaction has increased by 18%. In other words, I am more than convinced that switching the distinct Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City line to London Overground would increase customer satisfaction, improve the quality of our services and make our services far more integrated.

However, there is yet another reason why I believe that the Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City line should be run by London Overground—the heritage of the line itself. As I am sure only railway geeks will be aware, a section of the line actually operated as part of the London Underground until the 1970s. That section was from Moorgate to, I think, Drayton Park, where observers will find that the lights on the Govia Great Northern trains still flicker as they switch from the different electrics that were used on the London Underground. We already have the heritage of being a London Underground line. I argue that it is high time to convert the whole line to a London Overground line, which has only been available since the 2007 innovation.

The case is convincing indeed, but the question is how we get to that situation. I have met the deputy Mayor, the Secretary of State and the former Rail Minister; indeed, I have met every former Rail Minister from before the former Rail Minister. The Secretary of State has already said that this part of the Govia franchise needs splitting out, which, as hon. Members will imagine, I am very keen to see happen. In any case, the franchise is up for renewal in 2021.

I do not think that there is any principled objection to TfL managing that line, which I argue should be along the same basis as the other London Overground lines, with TfL procuring a service from Arriva Rail London. However, in order for that to happen, I need ministerial action almost immediately, and it is for that reason in particular that I secured the debate. As the Minister will know from his limited time in the job, these things do not happen overnight; the procurement process takes a couple of years.

Specifically, TfL now needs research and data that only Govia can provide in order to fully model this replacement service, with a deadline of February 2019. In other words, we have only a couple of months for that information to be passed across. How does that happen, in practical terms? It is straightforward: the Secretary of State needs to request that Govia shares that information.

At the risk of boring the Minister with details of woe and appalling service and the heartbreak of the problems over the summer, I put on the record my thanks to the Department for Transport for responding to my calls for additional compensation for commuters who were unable to travel during that period of enormous disruption. It was always the case, particularly for Southern, that compensation was offered if services completely fell apart, and in this case I think a month’s free travel was offered to season ticket holders.

However, the problem for my constituents was that many travel slightly less frequently. They do not know what time of day they might travel—perhaps after dropping the kids at school—and some days they might work at home. I came to a deal, after being very insistent with the Secretary of State in a meeting very early during the disruption post May, that additional compensation should apply not only to those who had season tickets but to everybody else who used the line on a regular basis. We agreed in the end that commuters who could demonstrate that they travelled on three days or more per week should be compensated.

I have to say that there was a bit of an internal, behind-the-scenes battle involving the Treasury. A couple of times it said it could not do it, which I said was unacceptable. I am pleased and grateful that the Minister’s Department ensured that compensation was offered. Constituents now regularly come up to me and tell me that they have had back £200 or £300 of compensation in addition to the delay repay scheme, which is far too fiddly to use and which I know the Minister has plans for.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a compelling case on behalf of his constituents for looking at the management of the service. Does he agree with the Transport Committee that season ticket holders and others who were so badly affected by the timetable changes on Great Northern should receive a discount on their 2019 season tickets, in order to protect them from the fare increase due in January? That might provide some more immediate relief than the longer term changes that he seeks.

[Grant Shapps]

Yes, I agree. Commuters on our line from Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City have suffered unbelievable disruption. It would be right for the Minister and the Department to look at how they could compensate those commuters, which could perhaps be with a discount on the fare increase that has been mentioned for the new year.

I support that call, although I accept at the same time that, while being given £200 or £300 does not in any way compensate for the appalling disruption, it is at least a recognition of it, since it comes on top of the delay repay scheme. I put on the record that commuters should not be put off if they have already gone online and claimed their £3 back for a late train using the delay repay scheme. I am assured by Govia that they can now also claim compensation, whether they are a season ticket holder or not, using whatever means of proof they can provide. That can be a bank or credit card statement or tickets. I know some people will have bought carnets rather than tickets. Govia is prepared to be very flexible.

I will mention one other matter before I sit down. I have for a long time called for Oyster cards to be accepted along the distance of the line. I think it is currently accepted only from Moorgate to Hadley Wood, which means that ticketing is a complicated business. A person has to get an overground ticket. Then, at some point when they come off the train—at Finsbury Park or Highbury & Islington—they have to switch to paying by Oyster. The position at the moment is very unsatisfactory, so I am really delighted, on behalf of my constituents, that the Government and the Minister have announced that Oyster will come into play next year—I understand that that will be at some point in the autumn—meaning that the Oyster network will extend right out to Welwyn Garden City, along the length of that line. I would like to push it further—of course everyone will say that—because Welwyn North is also in my constituency and I must make reference to that. However, I will be very pleased to see this innovation. It will help tremendously: it will speed up ticketing times at the station dramatically. The innovation of not just Oyster but contactless payment—the ability to use phones and credit cards—makes travelling a lot easier.

Therefore I really have two specific requests: one simple and one on which I hope that the Minister will equally be able to reassure me, either today or very soon—ideally before Christmas. It will be his Christmas present to my commuters and, I suspect, commuters right the way along the line if he can provide clarification on the first point, and a yes on the second. The clarification is on the date on which the Oyster card will actually be introduced in our area. I very much hope that the Minister has available the date of its introduction next year. If not, I just seek clarification that it will certainly be introduced next year.

If my second point is not resolved as we go into the new year, the Minister will find me, rather annoyingly, on his shoulders about it. I am talking about the provision of data from Govia to TfL so that we can start the process of matching a London Qverground service to the line and not miss the 2021 deadline. I am reliably informed that that must be done by the end of February next year to meet the deadline. I invite the Minister to make my constituents’ Christmas.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Jones]

My right hon. Friend is as wise and experienced in this matter as we would expect, and she is right to say that there was not a single cause of the failure from the timetable change in May. Everybody should be taking some responsibility for that, and my right hon. Friend is correct to highlight the franchise operator and Network Rail.

We have of course had the Glaister review, which looked at the underlying causes. I will come on to some of the things that have changed as a result of that. The key point was to ensure that lessons were learned and that we do not have a repetition of what was a complete failure. It was very frustrating because across the country as a whole, some really impressive things have been delivered—things that were started and taken forward, indeed, by my right hon. Friend. I am thinking of such things as, in the north, the Ordsall Chord and work at Liverpool Lime Street. The timetable change was to bring some of the new interventions and upgrades into service for passengers, but that has not happened yet, so it did not just cause disruption; it was a real missed opportunity as well. I will come on to that in a moment.

Since the interim timetable was introduced on 15 July, we have seen improved performance on the Great Northern line. In the most recent figures, the public performance measure for these services was around 83%. I completely understand that that is not good enough; we are obviously aiming for vast improvement, but it is still an improvement compared with 74%, which was the equivalent last year. Yes, there clearly remains room for improvement, and we continue to push GTR to improve reliability across its network.

[Grant Shapps]

I just caution the Minister on quoting statistics, because the trouble is that it is 80-whatever per cent. of fewer trains. The timetable has left my constituents with fewer options, and that means that the percentages, even if the timetable runs perfectly, are actually rather meaningless.

[Andrew Jones]

I will come on to that point. I would not go so far as to say that the statistics are meaningless, because they are part of the measures that we use to measure the performance of train operating companies. They are regularly scrutinised; indeed, I have found myself looking daily at the PPM by individual franchise, which is a habit I must get out of. This is monitored by the regulator and by officials in the Department. I will come on to the quantity of trains, but it does matter. We want to ensure that train operating companies and Network Rail are held to account for a failure to improve.

GTR is working on a range of ongoing schemes designed to improve the underlying performance. There are more fully trained drivers on this route than ever before, and service performance is improving as a result of revised operational plans that make best use of those additional resources. Network Rail continues to deliver improvements designed to combat some of the underlying infrastructure issues on this part of the network. GTR and Network Rail are collaborating more closely to reduce the frequency and impact of trespass, which has been a type of incident affecting this route. The rail industry is implementing new solutions to reduce that risk, including by focusing, through social media channels, on the target demographic.

One question raised repeatedly by colleagues across the House has been this: what is being done to hold the operators to account? We have seen some improvement in performance. We have always been clear that GTR would be held to account for its role in the disruption earlier this year. It will make no profit in this financial year, and we have capped the profit that the operator can make for the remaining years of the franchise. It will contribute £15 million towards tangible improvements for passengers and work with local rail user groups representing the passengers most affected by the disruption in determining where the money is spent. That is in addition to the £15 million that the operator has already contributed towards compensation for passengers since the May timetable disruption. I am pleased that those steps will hold GTR to account appropriately and will directly benefit the passengers who were most affected during the disruption.

There was a timetable change last week. The December 2018 timetable change was a scaled-back one, but it was nevertheless significant because it was implemented using changed procedures, in the light of the learnings from May. Compared with the 15 July interim timetable, this new timetable, which has landed well, brings an increase in services for Welwyn Hatfield, focused mainly on the off-peak periods. Compared with before May ’18, passengers in my right hon. Friend’s constituency now see an extra service in each off-peak hour from Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield to Moorgate, additional peak services between Welwyn North and King’s Cross, and additional peak services between Brookmans Park, Welham Green and Moorgate.

[Grant Shapps]

Briefly, I do not want the House to be misled in any way by those numbers. It is certainly true and very welcome that the additional service is being laid on. The Minister mentions Welwyn Garden and Hatfield. It would be unreasonable to expect the Minister and others to know the full layout of stations, but there are other stations along this line in my constituency. Curiously, two of the smaller stations have been removed from the daytime off-peak stops entirely, whereas nearly everywhere else along the line to Moorgate is included. That is an unacceptable position.

I have been working with some of the rail user groups, which point out that it is possible to stop those trains at those stations and—particularly using the new 717 trains with the faster speed-up and slow-down times—still meet the timetable, without preventing other trains from running along the line. I would be grateful if the Minister would check back on that with his Department, to see whether we can get those other stations included.

[Andrew Jones]

Of course, I will take a number of points back from this debate, as I do with any debate, and take action to help colleagues to improve their services. I undertake right away to do just that.

We now have a timetable that appears robust and has landed well. We are continuing to monitor performance on a daily basis. My right hon. Friend has expressed concerns that Brookmans Park and Welham Green stations are seeing a reduction in services compared with the level of performance pre the May ’18 timetable, from three trains per hour during off peak to two trains per hour. Officials in the Department have discussed the issue with the operator. GTR has been using loading data and passenger count data to check whether that decision was correct. It found that very few passengers boarded at those stations during the day, and there was not the level of demand to justify three trains per hour.

The operator has to provide the timetable that most effectively balances the often competing demands of different passengers at different stations. In the latest station usage figures published only last week by the Office of Rail and Road, Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield both have more than 10 times as many entries and exits than Brookmans Park and Welham Green. In that context, it seems reasonable for GTR to provide a half-hourly off-peak service at Brookmans Park and Welham Green, and a service every 15 minutes at Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield.

[Grant Shapps]

I know the Minister has several remarks to make, but I need to challenge him on those figures. At Brookmans Park and Welham Green, passenger numbers have been increasing over a period of time. I have the numbers here, and I will leave them with the Minister. I do not accept that we should accept a worse service than pre May, when the overall purpose of the timetable is to improve the service across the network. I have now spoken to Govia, subsequent to the data that the Minister has, and suggested a system to allow trains to stop there without disrupting the rest of the timetable. If that can be done, I would appreciate the Minister taking a close interest in achieving it, as long as it does not destroy any of the rest of the network.

[Andrew Jones]

I have been looking through the usage data, so I will look at his data with some interest, because it is not entirely consistent with the picture that I have been considering. Perhaps we are looking at different timescales, but I would be grateful if he would give me the data, so that I can compare and contrast. As it stands, I know that GTR has been in discussion with local rail users and has made some changes. Previously, the two services were at 19 and 37 minutes past the hour. That meant that if a passenger missed the train at 37 minutes past, they had a long wait of 40 minutes for the next train. Now the services are at 19 and 49 minutes past the hour. Therefore, it is a half-hourly service.

My right hon. Friend mentioned weekend services, and I recognise that they remain a significant issue. I understand that the situation will be much improved as part of the next timetable change in May. That is still being worked on, but I will ensure that my right hon. Friend and colleagues along the line are kept informed of the change. In May, when there will be a bigger timetable change, more services will come online and more of the planned enhancements will become available for passengers.

Bringing Transport for London services to Welwyn Garden City was a key part of my right hon. Friend’s speech, and I know that he has campaigned for services between Welwyn and Moorgate to be transferred to TfL. I am very glad that the announcement of the Oyster and contactless extension has landed well. I am afraid I cannot give him exactly the Christmas present he asked for—the date when it will land—but I can confirm that it will happen next year. At the moment, our target date is no more specific than the autumn. If it can be brought forward, I will do that, because I recognise that it is of benefit, but it has taken a significant amount of work to get to this point. Again, I will keep him posted on progress. I know that this has been a long piece of work that he has focused on, but it is coming good for his constituents. It will allow commuters and other passengers to have seamless journeys into the capital. It is an early step in the Department’s commitment to expanding the availability of pay-as-you-go ticketing. Customers like it, it boosts usage and it makes it easier to manage peak-time flows through busy stations, so this is an important positive.

On the transfer of services to TfL, the Department is actively considering the future of the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern franchises. We are working closely with the Williams Rail Review, which is examining the most appropriate organisational and commercial models for the future of the rail industry. This work is at an early stage, but it is fair to say that nothing is off the table. It is a very wide-ranging review. It is an important review, because although our current system of privatisation has led to a fantastic burst of investment and passenger growth across our network, and has taken us from A to B with 1 billion more passenger journeys per year, are we really set up to take the rail industry from B to the future? How do we cater for future growth, and what is the right kind of structure for achieving that? That is what Keith Williams’s review is about, and nothing is off the table. It is a very big piece of work, and I will ensure that my right hon. Friend’s concerns and questions are fed into it.

I must mention that we will see some new trains on this route—brand new trains will enter passenger service on the Moorgate route. The class 313s that currently operate on the Great Northern line were built in the 1970s, but passenger numbers have increased substantially in the decades since, so there is a need for new trains that can meet current capacity demands. The new trains have been designed to provide much more capacity to meet the demand on the busy suburban Moorgate line. The new trains carry 943 passengers, compared with 640 for the old trains. That is automatically a significant increase in capacity.

However, it is a question not just of capacity, but of quality—a point made by my right hon. Friend. The quality of the new trains is much higher. They come with air conditioning, plug sockets, wi-fi and real-time passenger information screens. They are also designed for the improved modern safety and accessibility standards. I believe these trains will substantially improve the quality of service on the line, while addressing the core underlying need to put more capacity into the network, to serve his constituents.

I will follow up with the Department on my right hon. Friend’s point about data, and I will keep him posted. I am aware of the pressing nature of it, which he has highlighted. I thank my right hon. Friend for securing this debate.

[Grant Shapps]

I notice that the Minister is wrapping up a minute early, so I just want to press him on this point. I did not hear a commitment there, but I heard about a long, wide-ranging review with nothing off the table. However, as I pointed out, we need a decision on data provided by Govia to TfL by the end of February next year. Therefore, a long and wide-ranging review does not sound entirely hopeful. I would like to press him, if I may, a little bit harder on that. Is he saying that a long-winded review would miss that timetable?

[Andrew Jones]

The Williams review is a bigger piece of work, but I also said that I would take back the points about Govia and TfL and keep my right hon. Friend informed. That is what I was referring to, so I have not missed it. Let me just finish by saying that the performance on Great Northern after May was unacceptable. Action has been taken against GTR in respect of that, and we continue to monitor performance closely. Additional Moorgate services were introduced last week, providing additional capacity in Welwyn Hatfield. I hope that 2019 will see further improvements, including the very popular introduction of pay-as-you-go ticketing. I will follow up all the points raised by my right hon. Friend and keep him posted.