Oral Answers to Questions

Grant Shapps Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con)]

22. What steps he is taking to encourage households to install energy efficiency measures.

[The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Grant Shapps)]

The Government have made good progress, with 47% of homes in England now having reached the Government’s 2035 target of achieving energy performance certificate level C and above, which is up from 14% in 2010.

[Siobhan Baillie]

I want to talk about radiator sludge, as I went to see ADEY Innovation Ltd, a company in my constituency, where I learned that dirty radiators increase energy bills by 7% and people may be getting 47% less heat through poor water quality. Yet in the Government’s £25 million energy efficiency advice campaign there is nowt about the benefits of magnetic filtration and other affordable things that companies such as ADEY Innovation offer households. Will my right hon. Friend agree to work with me to include this advice and meet to discuss this?

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend is right to worry about radiator sludge, and I fully support her in her concerns. I am pleased to tell her that in this Parliament and into the next we have committed £12.6 billion to campaigns to ensure not just that we tackle the radiator sludge, but that we do things throughout homes to improve their insulation and other technologies. I would be happy to meet her.

[Peter Gibson]

Retrofitting older homes can reduce carbon emissions, cut energy bills, make homes warmer, reduce reliance on gas and bring new green jobs to the north. However, the costs associated with retrofitting are currently prohibitive to achieving it on a large scale. What more can my right hon. Friend do to ensure that we bring down the cost of retrofitting homes?

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend is right about the cost of doing this. I have described how we are getting towards half of homes having been improved, but he will be pleased to hear about the £4 billion extension of the energy company obligation through its fourth phase, ECO4, along with ECO+, which involves another £1 billion to assist with some of the economics of ensuring that all homes can be improved.

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

Of course we all welcome as many energy efficiency measures as possible and encourage households to put them in place, but the fact remains that many middle-income and low-income constituents in my constituency are still struggling to pay their energy bills and are under great financial pressure. They are looking at how energy companies are making vast profits and now talking about giving vast bonuses to their chief executives and managers. People want something doing about that, and they want the Government and the energy companies to play their part more to ensure that an equal share is paid. We should have a windfall tax as well.

[Grant Shapps]

We have a windfall tax; it is at 75%, as opposed to just 19% for corporation tax elsewhere. It is worth explaining to the hon. Gentleman and to the House that the Government are currently paying about 50% of a typical household energy bill. Where are we getting that money from? We are largely getting it from taxing the gas and oil companies.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

Labour has a plan to upgrade our homes and eradicate fuel poverty with a warm homes plan to insulate 19 million homes over a decade. Does the Secretary of State regret the decision of the Liberal Democrat and Conservative coalition Government to cut the “green crap”, as a previous Prime Minister put it? That left people in poorly insulated homes and with expensive homes.

[Grant Shapps]

I explained in an earlier answer that we have gone from having just 14% of homes in 2010 with an energy rating of A to C to having 46% today. So it is clear that these plans have been working, and I have just talked about another £12.6 billion to finish off the job.

[Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)]

There are people in my constituency and across the country who need a lot of advice on how to retrofit older homes in an affordable way. The issue is not just the cost of retrofitting, but good advice on how to do that. I declare an interest: I happen to live in an older home where such advice may be needed. How will the Government help many people in my constituency, and indeed across the country, get that sort of advice on retrofitting older homes?

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend, who is in a neighbouring constituency to mine, will be delighted to hear that the ECO+ scheme—another £1 billion—is specifically aimed at trying to get to homes in the private and commercial sector that are sometimes harder to decarbonise. It is one scheme that he will want to consider, but, without wishing to give too much away, he should watch this space.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

We were insulating 10 times as many homes in 2010 as this Government are doing now. Everyone knows what has happened since the Secretary of State’s Government decided to get rid of the “green crap”. Will he adopt Labour’s plan to insulate 19 million homes over the next 10 years? It has the support of the Construction Leadership Council, the Federation of Master Builders and the building trade as a whole. It will create new jobs, cut bills and play its part in reducing carbon emissions. Will he do it?

[Grant Shapps]

This is one of those slightly odd parallel universes: we are saying that we have gone from just 14% to 46% of homes with A to C ratings—[Interruption.] My right hon. Friend the Minister of State suggests we might even be hitting 47%. I have also stood at this Dispatch Box and talked about £12.6 billion of investment to go even further, yet the Labour party will not just say, “That is very good, and we’ll support you.”

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

The fact is that, in the last Tory manifesto, the Government promised to spend £9.2 billion on energy efficiency, but they have allocated only £6.6 billion of that, over £2 billion of which has still not be spent. The Lords have just described take-up of the boiler upgrade scheme as “disappointingly low” and Government promotion of the scheme as “inadequate”. Does the Minister at least acknowledge that, at current insulation rates, it will take 92 years to retrofit the 19 million homes that need it and that if we are to bring down energy costs for people who are struggling with sky-high bills now, he needs to do a whole lot better?

[Grant Shapps]

There is still a considerable chunk of this Parliament left to run. As I have explained several times—I will say it again for the hon. Lady, who may have missed the point—we have already got pretty close to half the homes in this country being rated A to C —up from just 14%. We are well on our way to getting this job done. I appreciate her encouragement, but we will finish this off ourselves.

[Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab)]

2. What discussions he has had with his EU counterparts on the potential scope of a co-ordinated withdrawal from the energy charter treaty.

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[Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab)]

18. How many households had forced installations of prepayment meters in 2022.

[The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Grant Shapps)]

I wrote to suppliers in January calling on them to halt the inappropriate use of prepayment meters and to provide transparency on the use of warrants in people’s homes. Along with a number of other steps, that has led to the cessation of that practice.

[Dan Carden]

The Secretary of State will know that I wrote to all energy companies before the practice was suspended. The mixed bag of responses showed that a voluntary approach simply will not work. Utilita chief executive officer Bill Bullen said:

“We will not commit to ending the forcible use of prepay. That course of action is simply not sustainable.”

There is a suspension until 31 March, and compensation has been talked about. However, all that is about is Ofgem asking companies to look at whether the forced instalment was appropriate. Companies know that Ofgem is toothless. It is down to the Secretary of State to ban this practice and to set out how compensation will be given out.

[Grant Shapps]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s moves in this sphere. To be clear to the House, I wrote to the suppliers and received reassurances that they would end the practice. I asked Ofgem—I have to say that I thought the wool had been pulled over its eyes—to not just take energy companies’ word for it but go to the customers, which it is doing. I queried the fact that the courts were issuing mass warrants, which they have agreed to end. He talks about what happens next; he is right that Ofgem is looking at what further protections will be in place. Its work will conclude shortly with further announcements.

[Ruth Jones]

I thank the Secretary of State for his initial response, but constituents in Newport West will be disappointed by it. This Government are ducking their responsibilities on the control of energy bills, and are relying on the regulator to do the right thing. How can it be right that the installation of prepayment meters will recommence at the end of March? Why should those with the least have to pay the most to heat their homes and keep the lights on?

[Grant Shapps]

I take issue with the idea that the Government are somehow ducking our responsibility. As I mentioned, we are paying around half of household energy bills this winter. We took action—I will not repeat what it was—that brought the prepayment meter scandal to a conclusion. That work, and what happens next, is being looked at very carefully. Ofgem will look at what happens if there is no fall-back solution when energy bills are not being paid. That is a complex issue, but more will be said about it soon.

[Paula Barker]

The news that British Gas broke into the homes of vulnerable people to force-fit prepayment meters is shocking, but bears little surprise to anyone who has had to interact with that company. The Government seem to cower from taking on the big energy companies as they continue to rip off the British people. Will those on the Conservative Benches finally act to protect such households and force energy firms to pay out and compensate now rather than at the end of the Ofgem review?

[Grant Shapps]

I do not think I could have been any more vocal about this issue. Indeed, we brought that practice, which the hon. Lady rightly describes as abhorrent, to a close. We are also not soft on the energy providers, particularly given the 75% taxation, which is at a level designed to ensure that we have been able to support, in part, the 50% reduction in people’s household bills. As I said in answer to the previous two questions, we will return with more on this shortly.

[Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

Many on the Conservative Benches will be wondering what on earth Ofgem has been doing. It is supposed to be a regulator and to look after consumer interests, but it blunders around. It blundered around with the price gap, and it blundered around with its market entry strategy, meaning that energy companies could essentially put all bill payers’ money on red in a casino. It has ended up with billions of pounds taxpayers’ money being put into bailouts. Please can we have something more than the efforts by the Government to look at new non-executive directors—surely it is time to ask why the chief executive remains in post—and can we have better oversight of this regulator and regulators in general? They are getting away with ripping off consumers and allowing companies to do exactly the same.

[Grant Shapps]

I think it is always right that we keep what our regulators do under very close watch. My right hon. Friend the Minister of State has met the chief executive officer of Ofgem regularly, and I am meeting him shortly as well. We will continue to do that. I have called Ofgem out when I have been concerned and thought that it had had the wool pulled over its eyes by the energy companies, and I will continue to ensure that whatever happens will be appropriate for the future of this market. As my hon. Friend knows, we are undertaking a review of the way in which the energy markets operate at the moment.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Ind)]

What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the potential for the Government’s new five-point plan to tackle bad behaviour by energy suppliers?

[Grant Shapps]

There is no space for the sort of approach that we have seen from energy suppliers, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for mentioning this. We have to have a situation where they respect their customers. Where there has not been the case, I am afraid that suppliers need to ensure, as one or two Labour Members have mentioned, that they recompense their customers for the way they have behaved—outrageously, in many cases, including entering people’s homes without their permission.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State says that he has brought the scandal of prepayment meters to an end, but it certainly is not at an end. Indeed, the Government were repeatedly warned about this scandal but were effectively paralysed while thousands of vulnerable householders were disconnected by the back door. Customers now face more uncertainty as the moratorium on forced installations ends in just four weeks’ time, with nothing in its place. Can the Secretary of State confirm that there will be no lifting of the ban until this rotten system has been reformed and that there will be a proper compensation scheme managed by the Government for every customer affected?

[Grant Shapps]

As I mentioned previously, there is a role for prepayment meters. For example, my son lives in a shared flat, and they find a prepayment meter a very good way to pay the energy bill. I do not think that an outright ban is the right way to go, but the hon. Gentleman and others have rightly pointed out the level of concern across the House, which I absolutely share, about prepayment meters being forced on customers. We will ensure that we do not go back to those bad old days that I was pleased to play an important part in stopping.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

4. Whether he has made a comparative assessment of the adequacy of protection against carbon leakage for energy-intensive industries under the (a) UK emissions trading scheme and (b) EU emissions trading system.

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[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

6. What steps he is taking to help businesses with their energy bills.

[The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Grant Shapps)]

I mentioned before that we are paying around half of the household energy bill. We are also paying around one third of business energy bills right now through the energy bill relief scheme.

[Tom Hunt]

A few weeks ago I went to St Nicholas Street in Ipswich to talk to some of the local businesses, including Bar Twenty One and Hopsters. Bar Twenty One has made a fantastic start to business, despite the difficult climate. Those who run Bar Twenty One talked about pedestrianising the street, which I support. They also raised the issue of energy bills and their frustration at seeing a decline in wholesale prices but still not feeling the benefit of that. Will my right hon. Friend outline to me and to those businesses what steps he believes the energy suppliers should be taking to support businesses and get them on to fair contracts?

[Grant Shapps]

I really want to see a well-functioning energy market, and I have written to Ofgem about this. There is a request for information about the challenges facing non-domestic customers. As we see energy prices fall like a feather, having rocketed up, it is frustrating not to see those prices pass through. It is not the only frustration I have about the energy market—for example, it is 10 times cheaper to produce offshore wind than it is to buy gas right now, but we do not see that reflected in the prices. That is why we are looking at the entire operation of this marketplace.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

For the purposes of energy bill support, hospices are treated as businesses. They have seen a rise in their energy costs of 350%. They support some of the most vulnerable and needy people in our society, and the majority of their funding comes from private and charitable donations. Will the Secretary of State consider a special support fund for our hospices, so that they can keep caring for those who need it the most?

[Grant Shapps]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight the case of hospices. In my constituency, there is the Isabel Hospice, of which I am a regular patron, so I hear its concerns about issues such as energy prices. We have had a generous scheme in place and we have a further scheme that will continue to run. I will look at his specific concerns.

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[Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con)]

12. What progress he has made on meeting the 2050 net zero target.

[The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Grant Shapps)]

The Government continued to make good progress on our pathway to net zero in 2021. The UK’s net territorial greenhouse gas emissions were estimated to be 427 million tonnes. That is 48% lower than they were in 1990.

[Lia Nici]

I know that the Secretary of State and Ministers know the importance of carbon capture, usage and storage, not only to be able to reach our net zero targets, but for the huge job opportunities available in my constituency of Great Grimsby. Can my right hon. Friend please tell me when track 2 of the CCUS cluster sequencing programme will be launched?

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend did a terrific job, I recall, as a Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Whip briefly in the past year. She is absolutely right about carbon capture, utilisation and storage. We have the potential for 78 billion tonnes of CO₂ to be stored. The answer to her track 2 question is: very shortly.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

While I welcome the grants of up to £5,000 that the Government are making available for boiler replacement, as the Secretary of State will know, a heat pump will cost £8,000 to £15,000, so many of our constituents would not be able to afford it even with that grant, and 90,000 such grants do not constitute a plan to decarbonise the 23 million homes in this country that have gas boilers. When do the Government intend to come forward with such a plan?

[Grant Shapps]

I think heat pumps are rather like the solar panels we were just discussing in previous questions. When I had my solar panels installed 12 years ago, they were extremely expensive and had a very long return, although they have finally returned on that; they are now much cheaper. I think we are seeing the same process with air source heat pumps. I note that two suppliers, Octopus and British Gas, have announced £3,000 and £2,500 air source heat pumps—after the Government £5,000, I should say—which means they start to become within reach of ordinary boilers. There is clearly much more to do, but I absolutely share the right hon. Member’s enthusiasm for them.

[Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

13. How many onshore wind farms have been established in England since 2015.

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[Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Con)]

T1. I congratulate my right hon. Friend—[Interruption.] Oh sorry, question 1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Grant Shapps)]

I know my right hon. Friend is new to this House. This winter, as I mentioned, the Government have been paying half the energy bills of most British households. In these difficult times, that has been an extraordinary intervention that we are all very proud of. But it has taught us a valuable lesson—we can never again be held to ransom by energy tyranny. That is why we want to have the cheapest wholesale electricity in Europe, to be on a path to net zero, and to put Putin and his ilk in a position where they can no longer have any sway over our energy security.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I have the greatest respect, but these are Topicals and I want to get everybody else in as well. And I agree—nuclear reactors from Lancashire could be fantastic.

[Grant Shapps]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. He will know, as will the whole House, that every single nuclear reactor currently operational in the UK was given permission under the Conservative party. He is right to champion Great British Nuclear and we will get the nuclear industry going again. Indeed, I was the first Energy Secretary to put money—£700 million—into nuclear power since 1986. I have appointed our first ever—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is the same for the Secretary of State. It is everybody’s questions, not just yours and the former Prime Minister’s. Let’s go to Ed Miliband for a good example of a quick question.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

It is important to welcome ex-party leaders to their place, Mr Speaker. My only advice is that it is important to not want your old job back.

Can I ask the Secretary of State to tell the House which member of the new Department’s ministerial team in April last year described onshore wind farms as “an eyesore” on the hills?

[Grant Shapps]

I was just having a debate about whether it was me or my hon. Friend the Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie), the Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero. The point is that they have to be done with local consent. That is why a proper energy mix that includes not just wind farms but nuclear for about a quarter of our energy production is so important and why we have just appointed the first ever nuclear Minister, who some are calling “Atomic Bowie”.

[Edward Miliband]

The problem is that the right hon. Gentleman is not the cheerleader for clean energy; he is the roadblock. We have had three wind farms in the last eight years. His own Department says 79% of the public support onshore wind. Let me ask him, plan and simple: will he bring the local planning regime for onshore wind in line with all other infrastructure—yes or no?

[Grant Shapps]

The right hon. Gentleman calls me the roadblock, but perhaps he missed me saying that I was installing solar before it was fashionable to do so. I absolutely want more onshore and offshore wind in this country. We are ensuring that we are helping with that process, but it has to be with local consent.

[Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) (Con)]

T5. Safran Helicopter Engines in my constituency is a leader in developing sustainable aviation fuel use. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that the changeover in departmental responsibilities will help such companies to progress?

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend will be interested to hear that the Jet Zero Council, which I helped to co-establish, has already taken place since the departmental change. Indeed, on the first day in this job, I co-chaired the Jet Zero Council. We want to get to guilt-free flying that includes widescale use of sustainable aviation fuel.

[Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)]

T2. The Secretary of State did not answer the question earlier about compensation for vulnerable customers disconnected from prepayment meters. What is he going to do about it and will he promise that every single one of them will get compensation?

[Grant Shapps]

As I was trying to explain earlier, it is a work in progress. We will make sure that those who suffered are recompensed. What happened was indeed a scandal. I could not have acted faster in this job to fix it and I described the three different parts of activity I undertook, which brought it under control.

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

T8. Offshore wind is a great British success story, but fiscal and regulatory action is urgently required if the UK is to remain an attractive place to invest. Can my right hon. Friend thus confirm that, ahead of the Budget, he is working with the Treasury to introduce new tax incentives and to reform capital allowances so that the UK can compete with other countries, such as the US and those in the EU?

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[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

T6. I listened carefully to what the Secretary of State said about prepayment meters. Could he confirm that forced installations will not go ahead until the penalty on prepayment meters has been abolished— yes or no?

[Grant Shapps]

There has been a long-term difference in the price of prepayment meters, which I specifically asked Ofgem to look at. I am meeting the Ofgem CEO to discuss its response shortly.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

The Minister will be aware that aspects of the tourism and hospitality industry, such as catering and leisure, are intensive energy users. Therefore, can he confirm that they will qualify for support under the energy and trade-intensive industries scheme due to be in place from April?

[Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)]

T7. Many families in my constituency who are terrified about their increasing energy bills cannot simply turn down the heat come 1 April. They include families with disabled children, whose winter payment will long since have been spent. Why do the Government think that it is acceptable for energy companies to continue to rake in sky-high profits, while families on low incomes with disabled children continue to struggle?

[Grant Shapps]

I sometimes worry that some Opposition Members do not properly set the context. The reason that we are paying sky-high bills is that Putin invaded a democratic neighbour, which pushed up energy bills. This Government have stood by the public by paying half of everyone’s energy bills. Judge us by our record. We will say more shortly.

[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

Could my right hon. Friend include fertiliser manufacturers, such as Neatcrown Corwen Ltd in my constituency, in the Government’s support for high, intensive energy businesses?

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[Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)]

Contracts for difference have been successful in driving down the cost of renewable energies. However, industry bodies and developers are warning that the draft strike prices for allocation round 5 are too low. Can my right hon. Friend commit to a review of strike prices to ensure that the allocation round is a success for renewable energy technologies such as floating offshore wind?

[Grant Shapps]

It is worth reminding the House that contracts for difference has been a world-beating way of creating the world’s second, third and fourth largest offshore wind farms. There have been some pressures on the previous round, due to inflation because of the war. We will keep the next round in mind.

[Darren Jones (Bristol North West) (Lab)]

Can the Secretary of State confirm whether the responsibility for industrial decarbonisation rests with his Department or the Department for Business and Trade?

[Grant Shapps]

As with everything in government, we share responsibilities. The clue is in the name—the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero.

[David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)]

I welcome the Government’s inclusion of seafood processing in the energy bills discount scheme, which replaces the EBRS at the end of this month. Before the energy crisis, there was the energy-intensive industries extension scheme, which included poultry, pork and milled grain processing, but not seafood. Would my right hon. Friend or one of his Ministers agree to meet me and representatives from the sector to help to address the shortfall?

[Grant Shapps]

My hon. Friend will know that the energy-intensive industries discount of 80% has helped many very energy-intensive industries this winter. We have consulted on raising it to 100%, along with other amendments. I will be pleased to ensure that my hon. Friend has the appropriate meeting to discuss the matter.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

The Secretary of State will be aware of the additional tax revenues that have come to the Treasury in recent months. Will he have discussions with the Chancellor to ensure that small businesses in particular, which face very high energy costs, remain as competitive as possible in the current environment?

[Grant Shapps]

It is absolutely right that our businesses need to compete globally. Again, Putin is the reason for these high energy costs. We have stepped in to support families. The money has to come from somewhere; our answer has been the oil and gas companies, but of course we need to make sure that the balance is right with the taxpayer as well. The hon. Gentleman can be assured that we are working on it with the Chancellor all the time.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

Knauf, a major manufacturer based in Immingham, seeks to build a hydrogen-ready combined heat and power plant to reduce its emissions. The project may stall, however, because Northern Powergrid has told Knauf that it cannot provide a connection until 2031. Could the Minister intervene and try to overcome the problem?

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[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Analysis by E3G has found that a third of the funding pledged for this Parliament to make buildings energy-efficient and to decarbonise heat has not been spent by the Government. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that that money is allocated and spent, and that leaky buildings are addressed swiftly?

[Grant Shapps]

As I said at the beginning of questions, we are working continuously to try to upgrade all buildings in this country, both domestic and non-domestic. We have a range of programmes; I will write to the hon. Lady with the full set of programmes that apply in non-domestic situations.

[Mr Speaker]

We come to the final question, from Barry Sheerman.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Secretary of State, and do the Government, agree that leisure centres are critical to all our communities, and especially to young people? I understand that the cost of the energy for heating pools is hitting even the Prime Minister, with his very large pool in north Yorkshire. May we have some emergency action to help communities with energy bills that are likely to bankrupt them?

[Grant Shapps]

The energy support that we have been providing, including through the energy bills discount scheme, is designed to do exactly that, but we will keep a close eye on it to make sure that it helps in the right places. We are all suffering as a result of high energy costs. The reason is Putin, and we should never forget that while we build our own energy security in this country, with the cheapest wholesale electricity prices by the middle of the next decade.