Trade (Australia and New Zealand) Bill

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 6th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

It is a pleasure to reply to what has been a serious and, if I may say so, well-informed debate.

The passage of the Bill will allow us to ratify the agreements and thereby unlock a new chapter in the proud and vital tradition of Britain trading freely with the world. These are the first trade agreements that the UK has negotiated from scratch in over half a century and it is wholly appropriate that they are with our friends in Australia and New Zealand. My hon. Friend the Member for Mole Valley (Sir Paul Beresford) reminded us of the close links between our three nations, including his own dual nationality. My own brother lives in Australia and has an Australian family. According to the 2021 Australian census, a third of Australians have English ancestry. Similarly, 72% of New Zealanders are of European origin, with the majority of those estimated to hail from the UK. The right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar) reminded us of the Anzac memorial in Whitehall, the Five Eyes partnership and AUKUS. As my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), now the Prime Minister—if I may be the first to congratulate her from the Dispatch Box—said when she launched the negotiations, these deals

“renew and strengthen our bond of friendship, help bring greater prosperity to our peoples, and send a clear signal to the rest of the world that like-minded democracies are prepared to stand up for free trade and the rules underpinning international trade.”

[Sir Paul Beresford]

We have been listening to Members, particularly from the Opposition, saying that we need protections and so forth to be built in. This goes two ways: if we build in protections, Australia and New Zealand will want to build them in, so a free trade agreement will cease to live up to its title.

[Andrew Griffith]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Although one has to work quite hard to find them, we have heard throughout this debate about a legion of opportunities that the Bill will open up. My hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer), late of the parish of this Department, spoke about the importance of the mutual recognition of professional qualifications, and we heard the same point from my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly).

The nationalist spokesman, the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry), somewhat grudgingly accepted the benefit of the deal for Scottish whisky. My hon. Friend the Member for Mole Valley conjured up an image of a warehouse full of Silent Pool gin waiting to be shipped down under. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Meon Valley (Mrs Drummond) about her opportunity, and she does great work as chair of the all-party group on English sparkling wine for Hambledon Vineyard and Exton Park in her constituency.

We heard from the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) about the number of jobs in his constituency that are dependent on mining machines, with Australia, again, as the sole market for those. We even heard about the opportunity for the right hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) to export his book down under.

[Angus Brendan MacNeil]

I am hearing an awful lot of the typical boosterism from the Government—the spin and froth—but does the Minister accept the numbers? We need 62 and a half of these Australian-style deals to match the damage that Brexit has done to the United Kingdom economy.

[Andrew Griffith]

We also heard from my hon. Friends the Members for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) and for Wycombe (Mr Baker) about the serial underestimate of the benefits of free trade. We Government Members are very clear about the benefits for consumers and producers and the competitiveness of this nation alike.

I will try to address as many of the other points as time allows. As is so often the case, I am afraid that the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle) raised the prospect of the NHS being at risk. Let me be very clear: this and our other free trade agreements do not, and will not, cover healthcare services in the UK—neither will they threaten the standard of care nor the Government’s ability to decide how we and this Parliament organise our healthcare services in this country in the best way for patients. The NHS is not at risk from free trade agreements and I agree with the right hon. Member for Warley that the House should not conflate the two.

A number of serious contributions were made about agriculture. We understand fully hon. Members’ concerns—we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Dr Hudson) and, again, my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes. British farming is vital to our trade policy. Any deal that we sign needs to work for UK consumers, farmers and food producers. I have many of those in my constituency and will always look out for them.

[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

Like the Minister, I have farmers in my constituency; I met them last week and we discussed the trade deal and its likely impacts. Is he concerned, as they are, about the sort of economic impact that it will have? Will he confirm that the Government have undertaken a full economic impact assessment of the deal?

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[Andrew Griffith]

The Government have undertaken that and, indeed, the independent Trade and Agriculture Commission has given the deal a green light and a clean bill of health, in terms of its impact.

[Drew Hendry]

Will the Minister give way?

[Andrew Griffith]

I will make some progress, but I will come back to many of the points that the nationalist spokesman made.

The issue of antimicrobial usage was raised. The TAC outlined in its report on the Australian deal that the free trade agreement will not lead to increased imports of products commonly produced using antimicrobials, largely because it does not reduce tariffs on those products. They are out of scope.

The nationalist spokesman and the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Ms Qaisar) talked about the role of the devolved Administrations in the process. The negotiation of trade agreements is a reserved matter, whether the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey likes it or not, but the devolved Administrations are responsible for implementation in matters of devolved competence, which includes certain provisions relating to public procurement. The Bill applies, as it should, to the whole United Kingdom and will confer concurrent powers on both UK and devolved Ministers, or on a Northern Ireland Department, to implement public procurement provisions in both the Australia and New Zealand free trade agreements. They are limited powers specific to implementing these agreements alone.

Not for the first time, nationalists are promoting an act of self-harm. These trade agreements have the potential to deliver sizeable benefits across the four nations; the Australia agreement alone could mean an increase in GVA of about £200 million for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, which will be valued by their citizens. My Department is seeking legislative consent from each devolved legislature and is engaging with the DAs, building on the extensive engagement—acknowledged on both sides—that was undertaken during the negotiation of both trade agreements at ministerial and official level.

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said in her opening remarks, we are committing not normally to use these concurrent powers without a devolved Administration’s consent, and never without consulting them first. The same commitment was made regarding the use of powers in the Trade Act 2021 and has been honoured by the UK Government.

The nationalist party spokesman—[Hon. Members: “National!”]—was positively wistful for a European agreement with New Zealand. What he talked about is much more protectionist, offers far fewer benefits for UK consumers, and if we were still in the European Union, he would have had no scrutiny or influence over it.

[Angus Brendan MacNeil]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it in order to send this Government to Brussels to learn some lessons in respect and how to run a Union? This is not a way to run a Union.

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[Andrew Griffith]

A number of right hon. and hon. Members, including my hon. Friends the Members for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), for Huntingdon, for Totnes and for Meon Valley, raised parliamentary scrutiny. They made their points eloquently and in a collaborative way. I am sure that they will have been listened to, especially as they relate to the interaction with the Select Committee. It is clear—the point has been made across the House—that the Committee has done its work diligently and that its Chairman and members are effective.

The Government acknowledge the importance of parliamentary scrutiny of our ambitious trade agenda, and we want to get it right. Indeed, it is always a delight for this House to debate the life-enhancing virtues of trade. In human evolution, it must rank alongside language and the opposable thumb in its utility and impact. Free trade has vastly extended the length and quality of life of billions of people on this planet, many in the most desperate and impoverished parts of the world. That is why it such is a serial disappointment on this side of the House that Opposition Members seem so determined to place a spoke in the wheel of this country’s ability to set its own independent trade policy. With respect, we will take no lessons on scrutiny from those who voted again and again for the zero scrutiny that comes from British trade policy being decided not in Holyrood or Westminster, but by bureaucrats in Brussels.

[Anthony Mangnall]

The Minister is doing an excellent job at the Dispatch Box and is making a very good speech, but given what has been said in this debate, when the Committee has done a report on the New Zealand free trade agreement, will he commit to a debate under the CRaG process with a votable motion at the end?

[Andrew Griffith]

I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution. He has made his point very clearly, and I am sure that the Government have heard it.

This Bill is the first step in the creation of the outward-looking, internationalist, truly global Britain that we envisage for our future. It is not the end of the Government’s ambition, but the beginning. It is our objective to place the UK at the centre of a network of values-based free trade agreements spanning the globe. Trade is an issue that transcends party politics. It is intrinsic to our way of life. Fewer barriers mean more opportunities for our business, more economic growth, better jobs, and higher wages for our people. I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Thursday 21st July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)]

8. What steps she plans to take to help increase trade with the EU.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

This Government continue to seek an excellent trading relationship with our former EU partners, just as we do with other international markets. Hon. Members will be pleased to note that goods exported to the EU for May 2022 were over 17% higher than the 2018 monthly average, so trade here is already increasing. To increase exports, we need to get more British businesses exporting, and to do that the Department has initiatives such as the Export Academy and the export champions scheme that help to give them the knowledge and practical help that they need.

[Mr Speaker]

I welcome the Minister to the Dispatch Box.

[Helen Hayes]

Research by the London School of Economics has found a huge drop in the number of trade relationships between UK businesses and the EU, with a 30% decrease in the variety of goods sold. That is a clear indication of the damage that the Government’s Brexit deal is doing to smaller businesses, which cannot afford the increased costs of administration. Will the Minister detail how many small and medium-sized enterprises applied to the Brexit support fund and how many were successful? May I also ask the Minister, on behalf of the small and medium-sized businesses in my constituency, where is the urgency to find solutions to enable SMEs to trade with our EU neighbours once again?

[Andrew Griffith]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your welcome. I also thank the hon. Member for her question. Of course, she did not support the EU trade agreement that this Government put in place, so it is quite rich for her now to turn around and say that we are not increasing exports. In my previous answer, I talked about the many interventions that this Government are making, including internationalisation and the Brexit support fund of £38 million that is going to small and medium-sized enterprises to help them overcome the barriers that the protectionist EU puts in place.

[Dr Huq]

I, too, welcome the Minister to what I hope is a long and fruitful career. My question is about services, not goods. Our biggest export is the English language—it is the lingua franca of the world, isn’t it?—but the language schools that teach teenagers over the summer months are collapsing at quite a scary rate. Only seven out of 20 remain in Hastings, and there are three in Ealing, but before 2019 there were five. Will the Minister—whoever it is at any particular time—and their officials sit down with me and the trade bodies? They say that there has been an 80% drop in business, which is now going to Malta and Ireland. We can do better than this in global Britain. Can we sit down to talk about removing those things for this once lucrative—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Come on—you have to get to the question eventually.

[Andrew Griffith]

Education is indeed one of the great opportunities, and the lingua franca of English is one of the benefits as we seek to do trade deals not just with our friends in Europe but across the whole world. I am very happy to talk to my colleagues in the Department for Education and between us respond to the hon. Lady.

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

As we look to the future, does my hon. Friend agree that it goes beyond the EU, as do the opportunities for trade around the world? From my constituency of Watford to the rest of the world, we have the opportunity to build industry and opportunity for everyone.

[Andrew Griffith]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. He is a champion of small business in his constituency. That is why it is so important that, as we seek to do trade deals such as the comprehensive and progressive trans-Pacific partnership and those with the Gulf, India, Canada and many more, we have SME chapters and SME preference within them.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State, Nick Thomas-Symonds.

[Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I join you in wishing Penny and Isabel well for the future. I also welcome the Minister to the Dispatch Box.

I ask this question in place of my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas), who has covid. I am sure that the whole House will wish him a swift recovery. The tonnage of UK trade in food, feed and drink with both the EU and non-EU countries has fallen and has been steadily falling since 2019. Looking back at the record of this Government over the past three years, does the Minister accept that they have failed to make Brexit work?

[Andrew Griffith]

I am sure Government Members wish the hon. Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas) a speedy recovery as well.

Tonnage is, of course, only one measure. I note that, for the year to March, the value of British exports actually increased. [Interruption.] It will be a combination of growing markets, a growing number of exporters and a greater ability of exporters to obtain the price for their exports. That is what we on the Conservative Benches are focused on.

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

I, too, welcome the Minister to his place.

Thanks to Westminster’s disastrous hostile post-Brexit immigration policy, our lack of workers means that Scottish exports of fruit and vegetables to the European Union are down by 53% and of dairy and eggs by 33%. Given that both candidates for Prime Minister as well as, indeed, the Labour Leader have stated that they will not do anything about that, is it not time that the UK Government stood aside and gave the powers over immigration to the Scottish Government so that we can protect these businesses and their Scottish trade?

[Andrew Griffith]

I am very happy to talk to my colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions about the access to skilled workers, but I hope the hon. Gentleman will join me in thanking the Department’s Edinburgh-based team for its dedication to promoting the work of exporters from Scotland.

[Drew Hendry]

That answer will not give any comfort to those growers who are struggling at the moment. Of course, trade goes both ways, and our importing businesses are being hammered by long delays and increased costs. A single invoice shared with me by a small importer in Inverness, Oil and Vinegar, showed many new charges from the UK Government, running to many hundreds of pounds of additional costs. It contained separate lines for duty, admin fees and import custom fees, and the largest of all the costs was a curiously titled “Customs Add”. Does the Minister know how much the Treasury is raking in from these schemes? It must be vast sums. Will it call for any of it to be returned to those struggling businesses?

[Andrew Griffith]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s pain in hearing of the friction presented to British firms in seeking to do trade internationally. That is why Scotland remaining in this great Union is a great advantage to British businesses that want a single one-stop shop. If he has not already availed himself of the Export Support Service’s helpline, I would be very happy to connect his businesses to that.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

3. What steps she is taking to ensure that workers’ rights are maintained in all UK free trade agreements.

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[Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (SNP)]

5. What recent assessment her Department has made of trends in the level of exports of UK services.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

The Government are committed to promoting the UK’s world leading strengths in services. Latest figures published by the Office for National Statistics show that service exports were £316 billion in the 12 months to the end of May, an increase of 7% on the previous 12 months. The Government’s export strategy, published in November 2021 by the Secretary of State, recognises the importance of services and commits the Government to working with the sector in its implementation. That includes working with the CBI-led Trade in Services Council to understand and promote trade in services.

[Steven Bonnar]

The Centre for Economic Policy Research has calculated that since Brexit there has been a 6% drop in service exports to the EU. Services are Scotland’s biggest export, so what, if anything, is the Department doing to stabilise service exports, never mind grow them? There is a real fear that the Government have no real plan for progress or change.

[Andrew Griffith]

As we recover, we expect to see a continued increase in services exports. The hon. Member is right that Scotland is a significant exporter of services—worth more than £21 billion in 2020-21—making it the third largest exporting region in the UK. I wish all of our Scottish service exporters well, and it is the work of this Department to try to continue to grow that.

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[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

13. What steps she is taking to help increase exports from the devolved nations to the EU.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

The Department is delivering prosperity through trade and investment to all parts of the United Kingdom. In addition to UK-wide initiatives such as the UK Export Academy for smaller enterprises, we have established teams in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast, and I hope in my role to be visiting them over the coming months. Those teams will bring business support closer to businesses in the nations and work in partnership with devolved Administrations.

[Dave Doogan]

I thank the Minister for his answer, but it is clear to farmers across Scotland, nowhere more so than in Angus, that Brexit has made a great many things harder and more expensive, made nothing any easier and created no more opportunity whatever. [Interruption.] That will be the same in Banff and Buchan, by the way. With regard to Australia, and without reference to whisky or salmon, what dedicated analysis has his Department undertaken that evidences net increases for Scotch beef and lamb exports to Australia in quantitative, not rhetorical terms? If he cannot say, will he write to me with that data, please?

[Andrew Griffith]

I note that Invest in Angus, based in the hon. Member’s constituency, estimates that food and drink is worth more than £200 million to the Angus domestic economy. We are supporting farmers and food producers across Scotland, including in Angus, and that is one of the reasons why we are seeking opportunities for greater agricultural exports through the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership and the Indian trade deal, and with the Gulf.

[Patricia Gibson]

I am sure that James Withers from Scotland Food & Drink will be interested to hear what the Minister has said, because James has said:

“Brexit has made absolutely nothing better and it’s made a lot of things worse.”

Does the Minister share my concern—I hope he does—that the candidates in the current Tory leadership race are simply not being up front about the mess we are in because of Brexit? They need to listen carefully to businesses and make exporting easier, instead of pretending that Brexit is working for business in Scotland and across the UK, because clearly it is not.

[Andrew Griffith]

I look forward to meeting Scotland Food & Drink and hearing about the positive opportunities. I hope that it is not overly infected by the hon. Lady’s pessimism about the prospects for this great Union outside the European Union.

[Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

Welsh food and drink exports have no better showcase than the Royal Welsh show—the largest agricultural show in Europe—which concludes in my constituency today. It has been fantastic to see visitors from right around the world back on the showground. I want to pay particular tribute to Steve Hughson, who is stepping down as the show’s chief executive after 10 very successful years. Does my hon. Friend agree that agricultural shows are fantastically helpful for boosting our exports around the world?

[Andrew Griffith]

I thank my hon. Friend for promoting the great opportunities for British food and drink. The Royal Welsh show is a great institution and I am sure that everyone on the Government side of the House thanks Steve Hughson for his endeavours.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

11. What steps she is taking with Cabinet colleagues to support small and medium-sized enterprises trading with the EU.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

Small and medium-sized businesses make up a huge part of Britain’s economy, accounting for over 60% of employment and more than half of all turnover from the UK private sector. The Department for International Trade is doing all it can to help businesses overcome the barriers that the protectionist bloc of the European Union now imposes when consumers seek to buy goods from elsewhere in the world.

[Wera Hobhouse]

The only thing that Brexit has brought for many small businesses in Bath is increased costs, paperwork and border delays, as has been confirmed by the Public Accounts Committee—more barriers, not less. Small businesses are the lifeblood of our economy. Will the Government please reintroduce the SME Brexit support fund, with a simplified application process and a significantly expanded remit?

[Andrew Griffith]

I am proud of the endeavours of my colleagues and those in local enterprise partnerships up and down the UK in disbursing the £38 million internationalisation fund to support businesses as we go through some of the changes that result from leaving the European Union and seek opportunities elsewhere in the world. I will of course undertake to look at any way we can make it simpler for small businesses, in particular, to engage with the Department.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

12. What progress her Department has made on securing UK membership of the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership.

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[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

15. What steps she is taking to help increase the (a) volume and (b) reach of UK exports.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

Increasing the volume and reach of British exports is at the heart of the Department’s export strategy. It includes a comprehensive set of support for exporters, combined with seeking trade deals in the areas of greatest opportunity internationally.

[Liz Twist]

Tourism to the UK is our third-largest service export. I am sure the Minister, or at least the Secretary of State, will agree that the north-east is a fantastic place to visit and that we want to encourage visitors. In September 2020, the Government ended the VAT retail export scheme and the VAT shopping airside sales concession for airports, such as Newcastle airport. With the majority of visits including shopping as part of the trip, including shopping in Newcastle Metrocentre and, no doubt, Berwick, what discussions is the Minister having with the Treasury on that anomaly?

[Andrew Griffith]

I assure the hon. Lady that it is not just the Secretary of State but the Exports Minister who agrees about the potential of the tourism economy. We on the Government Benches will do everything we can to make the most of that opportunity, just as we are with freeports, which we are able to establish by being outside the EU. I note that one of those freeports is in the north-east.

[Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)]

I welcome the Exports Minister to his place. I hope he will join his Front-Bench colleagues, both past and present, who have on many occasions come to Sedgefield to visit our outstanding export businesses. At last week’s Great Yorkshire show, I met Billy Maughan, one of my local farmers, and other members of the National Farmers Union, who talked to me about the opportunities from deals such as the India deal. It would be great if he could meet them to explore those opportunities further.

[Andrew Griffith]

My hon. Friend is a doughty champion for all sorts of businesses in Sedgefield, including his local farmer. I would be very happy to arrange to meet him and Billy and continue what is clearly a tradition.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am asking this question on behalf of my hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Dame Nia Griffith), who is away on parliamentary business.

There is a concern among businesses that unlike its predecessor, the trade access programme, the current trade show programme will support a company only if it is exhibiting for the first time or venturing into new markets. We all know that marketing for export requires repeated efforts. There is evidence that there is now a drop in the number of UK exhibitors in some sectors, just when the Government are struggling to stimulate growth in the UK economy. Will the Minister now listen to businesses hoping to export, make the scheme more generous and widen the access criteria to allow businesses to benefit from the support by attending more than once?

[Andrew Griffith]

As we seek to get more businesses exporting, the first step is clearly often the hardest, so it seems thoroughly reasonable to put the highest amount of support into helping businesses make that first step outside the UK. The trade show programme supports over 128 different overseas trade shows across 28 different markets. I will listen to the hon. Lady, and I have been meeting business organisations in my first few days in this role. We will make sure that the trade show programme, which is a great example of the Department supporting British businesses, remains fully supported.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

17. What assessment her Department has made of the adequacy of scrutiny mechanisms for future UK free trade agreements.

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[Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con)]

T5. My constituency of Aylesbury has many brilliant businesses exporting their goods and services around the world. One example is Sterling Thermal Technology, which I visited recently and which manufactures bespoke heat exchangers. Many more would like to follow suit, so how can the Department help them to reap the benefits of Brexit and our new trade deals?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend, who has a strong reputation on the Conservative Benches as a champion of the many excellent businesses in his constituency, including Sterling Thermal Technology, whose products are not just sold around the world, contributing to the path to net zero, but used, I note, in our own Hinkley Point C. One of the benefits of leaving the European Union is that we can now tailor trade deals to suit the needs of British businesses as well as prioritising the markets that are of most interest to exporters.

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[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

The seafood processing sector based in my constituency and neighbouring Grimsby is anxious to increase its exports. Will the appropriate Minister meet me and representatives of the industry so we can push forward with a new initiative?

[Andrew Griffith]

I will be very happy to meet my hon. Friend’s constituents.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

T3. Only one in 10 British firms trades overseas, and exports are falling. Many of my Bath businesses have suffered significantly as a result. What steps is the Department taking to increase exports with the EU, our closest neighbour and, in the past, our biggest trading partner?

[Andrew Griffith]

I am sorry to hear that the exports of the hon. Lady’s local businesses are falling. That is not the general experience in the UK; the value of exports was up 9% in the 12 months to the end of March. If she would like, I will write to her with the comprehensive set of measures that I hope she and other hon. Members will take the summer months to promote to small businesses in their constituencies.

[Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) (Con)]

I have always been struck by the quiet diligence with which the Minister for Trade Policy, my right hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt), does her job. Can she please update me on progress on signing individual deals with US states, which my farmers in Rutland and Melton are particularly interested in?

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[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

Small businesses in my constituency wanting to export to the European Union tell me that they have to fill in customs declarations of up to 70 pages. Why are the Government putting such barriers in the way of small business exports?

[Andrew Griffith]

It is not at all the intention of the Government to put barriers in place; this Government are about knocking down barriers to export and unleashing the potential of small businesses across the United Kingdom to make the most of the opportunities not just in the European Union but in the rest of the world, as we have heard from Government Members.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Recently, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State announced enhanced free trade deal negotiations with our close allies and friends in the state of Israel. Will she set out for the benefit of the House the aims of those negotiations and what the benefits to the UK will be?

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[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

According to HMRC data, UK food exports to the EU fell by 19% in the 15 months following Brexit, at a cost of £2.4 billion. What steps are Ministers taking specifically to protect and promote our fantastic UK food businesses in future trade deals?

[Andrew Griffith]

Of course, the aftermath of covid reduced trade of all kinds with every part of the world. This Government’s job was to protect businesses in the aftermath and is now to use our dedicated food and drink advisers across the Department’s offices to make sure the world understands the enormous opportunity for the high-quality produce produced not only in the hon. Member’s constituency but throughout the rest of the United Kingdom.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Jim Shannon

Dolphin and Whale Hunting: Faroe Islands

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2022 Westminster Hall

[Kerry McCarthy]

Okay. Well, the hon. Member is closer to the Faroe Islands than I am, but I think it is pronounced “grinned”. Regardless of that, I was researching for this debate and saw the footage of what is happening there.

I once went to an event—I think it was probably something like Vegfest in Bristol—where someone on a stall showed me a tourist brochure for the Faroe Islands. There was a double-page spread showing red water with the bodies of animals in it. This was, “Come and witness our cultural traditions.” It was actually seen as a wonderful, spectacular event, in the same way that people might have been invited to watch bullfighting in Spain. It really was quite horrific, and I think the hon. Member from the Petitions Committee more than did justice to how horrific it is.

Over the years—this dates back to discussing the derogation at EU level—I have seen so many excuses made by people who are really just washing their hands of the blood of these thousands and thousands of whales and dolphins. I gather that the Faroe Islands Prime Minister promised a review at some point, but we have seen very little in terms of outcomes.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

My understanding is that we have now seen the early fruits of that review. It has resulted in a cap. The Government’s position is that any continuation of this practice—notwithstanding the reduction through that cap—is still unacceptable.

[Kerry McCarthy]

I thank the Minister for that response. That wipes out one of the questions I was going to ask him. He can keep intervening on me; then he will not need to do a winding-up speech.

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[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

I, too, welcome the Minister to his place. I am delighted to participate in this debate calling for the suspension of trade agreements with the Faroe Islands until all whale and dolphin hunts end. The debate was well opened by my hon. Friend the Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (John Nicolson). The petition attracted 104,664 signatures from across the UK. People in my constituency of North Ayrshire and Arran care deeply about the welfare of animals, and I believe that is replicated in every constituency across the UK. The practice of hunting whales and dolphins dates back some 1,200 years, but not all traditions are worth preserving, with about 800 whales being hunted every year.

The practice of hunting whales and dolphins is cruel, inhumane and must be condemned. In any case, we now know that the meat on pilot whales—the type of whale that is primarily hunted—is toxic, as it contains high levels of mercury, and can cause health challenges when consumed by humans. It is no longer the case that the people of the Faroe Islands need to hunt whales to survive—those days are gone. It is the scale of the slaughter, as well as the cruelty, that has caused international concern. Last year, more than 1,400 dolphins were slaughtered, and the outcry against it prompted the Faroese Government to review the practice. That shows that when concerns are properly expressed and directed, the international community can effect change—if, that is, we drive that intention to its end, which we have not yet done.

The review is obviously welcome, but it is not enough—action is needed. The frustration and deep concern about the hunting of dolphins and whales has led to calls for the suspension of trade agreements until the practice has ended. The call for the suspension of trade agreements is borne of deep frustration with the Faroese Government’s lack of action. The reality, particularly in Europe, is that such unnecessary and cruel treatment of our fellow creatures makes most people recoil with horror. There is little tolerance of it, even if such cruelty is carried out in the name of sport, culture or some half-baked excuse about necessity. It simply will not do.

I continue to be deeply opposed to and concerned about Brexit, but I recall how many Tory MPs were willing to proclaim the huge benefits that Brexit would bring. Well, with Brexit came a UK free trade treaty with the Faroe Islands, which by the end of 2021 accounted for more than 25% of the islands’ global trade. The agreement’s value in Faroese exports to the UK reached a staggering £864 million; in comparison, total UK exports to the Faroe Islands were a mere £17 million in the same period. The UK Government are therefore perhaps uniquely placed with the leverage to effect real change and to encourage the Faroe Islands to prohibit the barbaric practice of dolphin and whale hunting, in line with the rest of Europe.

[Andrew Griffith]

The hon. Lady is making a passioned argument for some of the benefits of an independent trade policy, although I accept that, in this respect, that has yet to be fully realised. Will she clarify whether the European Union is taking any action, and whether it is now the policy of the Scottish National party not to abrogate responsibility for trade deals to the European Union?

[Patricia Gibson]

The point I am making is about the Brexit that was trumpeted and sold by the Tory Government. I remember Minister after Minister saying on television that Brexit would provide the opportunity to improve animal welfare standards. I have seen no evidence of that, but the Minister has an opportunity today to show me not only that he believes in it, but that he is willing to sell that message abroad. From what he has just said, I fear that he is not. He is using what-aboutery to excuse a lack of action; that is really not the big, shiny Brexit we were promised.

A massive 69% of people support the UK Government taking some degree of diplomatic or economic trade action against the Faroe Islands to encourage or pressure that country into ending the practice, and 65% of people in European countries would support boycotts over it. There is real concern about this matter. Of course, once the Minister has sold the unacceptability of this practice to the Faroe Islands on behalf of the UK, he could go and evangelise in Europe if he thinks it helpful and set an example to all of us.

The fact is that the health of our oceans and marine life has been undermined over a long period by mankind. We need more marine mammals in our oceans, not fewer. Marine mammal movements in the ocean account for a remarkable one third of all ocean mixing, transporting vital nutrients around the world and oxygenating the ocean. In addition, whale and dolphin faeces stimulate the growth of phytoplankton—the ocean plants that produce most of the world’s oxygen. Enhancing and encouraging cetacean species can therefore help tackle climate change.

Encouraging or pressuring the Faroe Islands to outlaw the horrific practice of hunting whales and dolphins could boost its economy. Nations that used to allow whale hunting now engage in whale watching, which generates far more economic benefit and employment through whale tourism than hunting ever did, as well as winning international approval.

It has to be remembered that in the so-called review that the Faroe Islands said it would establish and that we were told was being carried out, only the dolphin hunt is currently being reviewed and not the entire grind tradition, which Members have spoken about. In the Faroese grind tradition, grind hunters surround dolphins or pilot whales with a wide semicircle of fishing boats and drive them into a shallow bay, where they are beached. Then, as we have heard, fishermen on the shore slaughter them with knives.

In February, it was reported that the Faroe Islands had begun discussions about the future of its controversial dolphin hunt, with a decision expected in subsequent weeks. Meetings were held to discuss the conclusions of the so-called review, which started last September. We were told that several options were on the table. In February, we were told that a decision would be announced in a few weeks, but here we are in July and nothing seems to be happening.

We have waited and waited, and I got to the point where I honestly thought that the Faroese Government had no intention of outlawing the practice of hunting dolphins and whales in any meaningful way. Their review was so limited in scope that many feared it would not result in much at all. It has taken so long, and has led to very limited action on the issue. I thought it was all starting to look as though the review was announced not because the Faroese Government felt that change was needed, but simply to placate international outrage after the mass slaughter of more than 1,400 Atlantic white-sided dolphins was publicised and sparked an outcry last year. And no wonder—it was the biggest organised killing of dolphins on record.

It seems that I was right to be suspicious. The review has now concluded. The cruel hunts are not to be banned. Instead, the Faroe Islands has proposed an annual catch limit of 500 dolphins on a provisional basis for 2022-23. Not only is that number higher than the total number of Atlantic white-sided dolphins normally killed in a single year; the total could be increased in future years, potentially making the already appalling situation worse.

The Government of the Faroe Islands are simply not listening, even though most people in the Faroe Islands want these hunts to end. No quota can be substantiated scientifically. It is clear that the international community must look less to carrots to influence the Faroe Islands and use a bit more stick. The UK Government have a significant stick that they could use in the UK’s importance to the Faroe Islands as a trading partner.

I know that the UK Government refuse to consider suspending their free trade deal with the Faroes over this barbaric practice. Sadly, I am not surprised by that, since we know that the UK is willing to sell arms to the most barbaric of states; consequently, killing dolphins and whales is unlikely to cause much of a ripple around the Cabinet table.

As is often the case, the public are well ahead of the Government on this issue. They do not approve of the cruel and barbaric hunting of whales and dolphins, and they want the UK Government to use whatever clout they have to encourage and pressure the Faroe Islands to end this practice. The Government should listen and, alongside the rest of Europe, exert every lever of influence they have over the Faroe Islands to stop this unacceptable and shocking practice, which has no place in an enlightened society.

It is clear that the Government of the Faroe Islands are not serious about stopping this practice, so the UK and other European nations need to do more to persuade and encourage them, in the strongest terms, to get serious, and should lay out what consequences will be faced if the practice continues.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Andrew Griffith)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I congratulate the mover of the motion, the hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (John Nicolson). I know that he cares deeply about the health of our oceans and has done much over past decades to protect the animals and other marine life that live within them. I thank the Petitions Committee, Dominic Dyer and the more than 100,000 people who signed the petition for enabling us to hold this important debate and rightly use Parliament’s voice to send the clear signal that we call out this practice. Both side of the House are united in condemning it. This is clearly an emotive issue, which evokes a strong response from parliamentarians and people across the country. We have heard many deeply considered contributions during the debate, and I thank all hon. Members for those contributions. I will do my best to respond to as many points as possible.

First, let me be clear that promoting animal welfare is a key priority for this Government. This debate is about the best means to end whale and dolphin slaughter, and no one disagrees with that. As we chart a new course, which is something we heard about from the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson), a new UK independent trade policy promoting animal welfare in all its manifestations is central to our trade negotiations and dialogues with partners. We will continue to negotiate dedicated animal welfare articles into new free trade agreements, which hon. Members will know we have done recently in deals with Australia and New Zealand—something we could not have done before we left the European Union.

We continue to utilise our existing trade agreements—those that have been negotiated in the past, not more recently—to keep diplomatic channels with partners, such as the Faroe Islands, open. We will work with Members of Parliament and stakeholders to ensure that we deliver the policies in the Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill, which will strengthen domestic animal welfare protection for kept animals, by delivering this Government’s manifesto commitment to end the export of live animals for fattening or slaughter.

As the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran reminded us, not all traditions are worth preserving. I and this Government agree. The Government are deeply concerned by the hunt that took place on 12 September last year and the continued hunting of cetaceans in the Faroe Islands. As we heard in several contributions, almost 1,500 beautiful Atlantic white-sided dolphins were killed in one day. That is more than six times the number of white-sided Dolphins usually killed in an entire year. The hunts are cruel and unsustainable.

We heard from the hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire and others about the fate of those mammals and the inhumane methods used to kill them. In the years prior to the hunt, the UK Government consistently raised concerns with our Faroese counterparts. We have urged them to switch to alternatives to hunting cetaceans and have emphasised the economic and social benefits that responsible, fantastic whale watching can bring to the community. We heard from the hon. Members for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) and for North Ayrshire and Arran about the benefits to the local economy, which is many times any economic benefit that can be achieved through the slaughter.

I assure all Members that we will continue to make those points ever more strongly further to this petition. As the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) reminded us, it was after that hunt that my colleague Lord Goldsmith, the Minister of State for the Pacific and Environment, wrote directly to the Faroese Government in the strongest terms to express our condemnation of the hunt—something agreed by all sides of the House—and to call for the end of hunting of cetaceans in the Faroe Islands. In his letter, he stated how unacceptably cruel the hunts were and talked about the immense stress and suffering that they caused those animals.

The Government continue to engage with their Faroese counterparts on this important issue. The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), visited the Faroe Islands in the last few weeks and raised this issue. I hope that goes some way to answering the question of the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth about what the Government are doing to take forward this campaign following Lord Goldsmith’s letter.

The hon. Member for Bristol East reminded us that 50% of the Faroese are in favour of ending the practice. One can only imagine that, due to both the pressure of the world community and the fabulous education that younger generations now receive on issues such as the climate and the marine ecosystem, that number will increase over time. No suspension of a trade agreement would end the practice; it will be ended only by the action of the Faroese Government themselves.

Although there is further to go, I am pleased that the collected efforts seem to be starting to make a difference. In my earlier intervention I talked about the cap, and the Faroese Government have started to review the regulations around it. It is a step in the right direction, but we remain strongly opposed to the killing of any dolphins, and we will continue our calls to the Faroese Government to stop the practice.

Now I have set out some context, I will turn to the specific circumstances of the trade agreement. Since leaving the European Union, the UK has agreed trade agreements with 70 countries, including rolling over the agreement that we were previously party to in our membership of the European Union. The agreement, which dates back to 2019, exactly mirrors the text and the abilities that we had under the European Union, where member states had less power to act bilaterally as we do now. We have reformed these deals with these countries, which allows us to deepen our relationships because they become bilateral relationships. It gives us a greater ability to influence crucial issues such as animal welfare.

That is why the Government’s position is that removing the deal—aside from the legality—would be counterproductive. We all want to achieve the same aim, which is to end this barbaric practice; the question is how best to achieve that. As I have said, we are fully exploiting all the different channels that our free trade agreement opens to us. It strengthens diplomatic ties between our nations, which gives us the power to influence and change practice.

[Patricia Gibson]

The Minister talks about the bilateral relationships that free trade agreements give the UK, which allow it to influence animal welfare. That is a very good point. On that basis, can he tell us specifically what influence the UK Government have had on stopping the practice or getting the Faroe Islands Government to a point where they will stop the hunting of dolphins? The new cap that he talks about is just smoke and mirrors. What other influence have the Government brought forward?

[Andrew Griffith]

It is about the continued engagement that we are able to have on a bilateral basis—not just Lord Goldsmith’s engagement, but across a panoply of international forums and issues, including the upcoming UN convention on biological diversity. With us holding the seat ourselves, as an independent nation state, we now have influence in all of those.

There are growing ties between the part of the United Kingdom that the hon. Lady represents and the Faroe Islands, including significant economic ties. I am unsure of the pronunciation, but there is a term for the significant investment being made by Faroese companies in Scotland and the United Kingdom.

We have managed to obtain groundbreaking animal welfare provisions in the new agreements we are signing, including those we have recently agreed with Australia and New Zealand. For the first time in any such free trade agreements, we have dedicated chapters on animal welfare, including commitments on non-regression and working together to raise standards. Such provisions are not in the Faroese agreement, but they are in agreements using our new powers going forwards. That is equally true of the agreement with New Zealand, which includes a standalone chapter on animal welfare, on non-regression, non-derogation and, again, measures to champion animal welfare.

Outside of our trade agreements, as I hope hon. Members on both sides will recognise, the UK will continue to work internationally to protect whales and other cetacean species. As a country, we are proud to play a leading role in the International Whaling Commission, where we work with international partners to encourage countries around the world to protect species. In addition to our subscription fees to the IWC, we have made several additional contributions to its voluntary funds. One such fund that is relevant to the dolphin species that we have spoken about is the small cetacean fund, which funds important conservation work focused on small cetacean species—dolphins—around the world. We will continue to encourage the Faroe Islands to engage with the IWC.

We are also playing a leading role internationally in protecting the ocean in the lead-up to the conference of the parties on the United Nations convention on biological diversity, which will take place this December. The UK is leading a coalition of 110 countries committed to protecting at least 30% of the world’s oceans by 2030 and, of course, 30% of the species within those oceans.

In conclusion, the Government welcome the petition, the debate that it has sparked, and the opportunity to send a clear message today. We appreciate and share the signatories’ reaction to this abhorrent hunt, and the Government stand strongly against the hunting of cetaceans in the Faroe Islands. The review announced by the country’s Prime Minister was welcome, but it is just a start. By maintaining, using and exploiting our diplomatic channels with the Faroese Government, we will continue to prosecute the case to encourage them to reform their practices.

As an independent trading nation, the UK is leading the world in improving environmental, animal welfare and labour standards more than ever before. In the years and months ahead, we will continue to use our independence to defend the rights of animals through international forums. We will put animal welfare provisions at the heart of our trade negotiations, and we will continue to promote animal welfare through the diplomatic channels that our agreements create. Protecting animals is part of Britain’s DNA—we love doing it as a nation—and that is exactly what we are doing as an independent trading nation.

I reiterate my thanks to the members of the public up and down the country who signed the petition and secured this invaluable debate. I stress that the UK Government stands with them against this abhorrent whaling practice. Through our diplomatic channels and our free trade agreements, we will continue to encourage reform and seek to replace cetacean hunting with new, better and more humane economic opportunities for the Faroese people.

UK-Japan Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

The reality is that if we had not negotiated this deal, we would have reverted to trading on World Trade Organisation terms with Japan and businesses on both sides would have faced tariffs and barriers to trade. But we have gone further than just continuity with this deal, and I am about to tell the House exactly how that is the case. This deal is better and more valuable than the Japan-EU deal, which is otherwise known as the JEPA, because in simple terms the CEPA is deeper than the JEPA. It goes further and faster in areas of in vital importance to the United Kingdom economy.

On digital trade, we are protecting source code, enabling the free flow of data while agreeing a ban on data localisation, saving companies the cost of setting up servers in Japan. Our textile and confectionery manufacturers will benefit from more liberal rules of origin, making their goods more competitive by allowing up to £88 million of UK exports to benefit from reduced duties. Our creative industries will have their brands and innovations protected, as we go beyond the EU in tackling the online infringement of intellectual property rights. Our fantastic food and drink producers will benefit from increased protection for iconic goods, as around 70 geographical indications, 10 times as many as before, will be protected in Japan, subject to their domestic processes next year.

Our services industry will have more regulatory co-operation, safeguards on data storage and greater flexibility to move talent across the world.

This is clearly a more British-shaped deal, and it delivers more benefits to the UK than the previous deal. Some Opposition Members have asked for a precise economic assessment of this difference, but in our Command Paper we agreed to assess our deals, not the deals of other countries or trade blocs, and I am not going to waste the time of Department for International Trade economists by asking them to assess deals that are clearly inferior to the one that we have secured.

This is a deal that will benefit every part of the United Kingdom. It delivers for our farmers and businesses, and it delivers for Japanese investors such as Nissan, Toyota and Hitachi, supporting thousands of jobs across the United Kingdom.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in addition to all the opportunities she lists, this deal is a fantastic opportunity for the growing and sustainable industry that makes British sparkling wine across 770 vineyards in the United Kingdom? It employs 10,000 people today, and is on a journey to increase its exports and could potentially employ 20,000 or 30,000 people in the future. By securing important geographic indicators, my right hon. Friend has unlocked that opportunity for us all.

[Elizabeth Truss]

My hon. Friend is a doughty champion of English sparkling wine and knows that this will be one of the geographical indicators that goes through the domestic process early next year, to be registered in Japan and recognised in Japan, and who knows how long it would have taken under the EU, because under its deal, it has to negotiate every new indicator. We have got agreement on those 70 indicators through the process, and the only circumstance under which English sparkling wine would not qualify is if English sparkling wine were produced in Japan, and I do not believe that to be the case.

This deal aligns with our high environment, animal welfare, labour, data and food safety standards, and it helps to position the United Kingdom as the world’s hub for services in tech trade and establishes us as a major force in global trade. Following Japan’s economic push on womanomics, we have also signed an entire chapter on women’s economic empowerment to help female entrepreneurs in both our nations—another chapter that was not included in the EU deal.

Sale of Arms: War in Yemen

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Monday 13th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Greg Hands]

I have already outlined how, after looking at incidents and the assessment of them, we are confident that there is not a pattern in those previous incidents. I absolutely share the hon. Lady’s concern about the appalling humanitarian situation in Yemen. However, based on those incidents, we do not believe that there has been a pattern there. Therefore, as long as we stick to our consolidated criteria and continue our assessment of incidents, that is absolutely the right decision for the UK Government to make.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

I am proud that so many young people in my constituency have raised the situation in Yemen with me. Saudi Arabia itself is a young country, with half its population under the age of 25. Will the Minister assure me that he will continue to raise human rights with his counterparts?

[Greg Hands]

Yes, we do. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and his team do so on a regular basis with Saudi Arabia and with other partners all the way around the world. We are immensely proud of the record that we have as a Government and as a country of promoting human rights around the world. That was absolutely the basis of the statement made by the Foreign Secretary in this place just last week.

Trade Bill (Eighth sitting)

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 8th sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 25th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Stewart Hosie]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As in the previous debate, the Minister has said that there will be no compromise on standards. I do not doubt for one second his sincerity, but let us just put it in the Bill so that everyone is absolutely satisfied. In that sense, my hon. Friend is absolutely right—let us rule it out in legislation.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

I would love the hon. Gentleman to expand on his theory of harm in respect of health services. If ever there was an example of the global effect of the law of comparative advantage, it is the advances in modern healthcare. There is a remedy available to him should he wish to remove himself from the benefits of diagnostics from Düsseldorf, biogenomics from Boston or pharmaceutical projects from Dublin. There is a mechanism known as a living will, whereby he can instruct his heirs and his family to ensure that he is at no point treated by any of those marvels of modern healthcare and that he can go back to experiencing the benefits of herbal potions and remedies and all those other forms of modern medicine that he would seem to prefer by cutting himself off from the benefits of free trade with the world.

[Stewart Hosie]

I have benefited from the national health service; indeed, it has probably saved my life on a number of occasions.

I have no doubt that some of the drugs purchased are still under patent by private companies. Some of the diagnostic testing machinery was made in Germany. Nobody, but nobody, is talking about restricting any of our health services in terms of purchasing. We are talking about marketisation, which has failed when it comes to the health service.

The new clause has a specific carve-out for the NHS and all health-relevant services regulation, making it illegal for the Government to conclude a trade agreement that altered the way NHS services are provided, liberalised further or opened up to foreign investment by dint of a trade agreement—not by a policy change, not by part of the NHS somewhere on these islands saying it would be a good thing to do, but by dint of a trade agreement being forced on us from somewhere else.

On negative listing, these clauses—we know this from other examples—require all industries to be liberalised in trade agreements unless there are specific carve-outs. The reason this is an issue is that it is not always easy to define what services count as health services and what are more general. For example, digital services may seem irrelevant to health, but NHS data management and GP appointments are increasingly digital. Negative lists therefore make it harder for Governments to regulate and provide health services for the common good. No-standstill clauses are ratchet clauses, because these provisions mean that after the trade deal has been signed parties are not allowed to reduce the level of liberalisation beyond what it was at the point of signature. That can make it difficult to reverse NHS privatisation.

Let me give an example of where had a standstill or ratchet clause been in effect, it would have caused real harm. In Scotland, cleaning in hospitals was historically carried out by private contractors, and the rate of hospital-acquired infections rose dramatically. The SNP Government took the decision to return it to NHS cleaners, and the rate of those infections fell dramatically. Imagine if an investor-state dispute settlement had been in place, if a ratchet clause had been in place—we would have been unable to do that, and if people had died from hospital-acquired infections because the Government were not allowed to take the public health measure of returning cleaning to the public sector, it would have been an absolute scandal.

I mentioned ISDS. There should be no ISDS clauses in trade agreements which only allow private investors to challenge Government policy when, for example, it affects their profits. Failure to abide by those clauses can result in legal challenge from trade partners or, if there is a separate ISDS clause, a challenge from private investors. I have used a number of examples on a number of occasions, and I will use another today very briefly. It is from April 1997. The Canadian Parliament banned the import and transportation of the petrol additive MMT because of concerns that it posed a significant public health risk. The Ethyl Corporation, the additives manufacturer, sued the Canadian Government under chapter 11 of the North American free trade agreement, an ISDS-type arrangement, for $251 million to cover losses of what it called the expropriation of both its production plant and its good reputation. That was upheld by the Canadian dispute settlement panel, and the Canadian Government repealed the ban and paid that corporation $15 million in compensation. That was over a petrol additive that was deemed to have a negative impact on public health. We believe it is quite wrong for large corporations to use these ISDS-type arrangements to sue Governments simply for taking steps to protect the wellbeing of citizens or for simply enacting public health measures which they believe to be right and for which they may well have an electoral mandate.

The new clause also instructs that there should be no changes to drugs pricing mechanisms. We know that the US, for example, has stated that it wishes to challenge the drug pricing model which keeps prices low for ordinary people in the UK. This could also happen through intellectual property and non-patent exclusivities. We need to be very alive to that. It would be bad news for patients, taxpayers, health boards and trusts around the country. In our judgment, trade agreements should never be used to facilitate that.

Our new clause 13 is an adjunct; we simply sought to add a different degree of protection for the health services in the nations, and to ensure that the Government would not be able to lay before Parliament a trade agreement that would have an impact on the provision of healthcare services without the consent of the devolved Administrations. That is secondary to the substantial points we are trying to make and the protections that we wish to put in place with new clause 12.

Trade Bill (Sixth sitting)

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 6th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 23rd June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Bill Esterson]

I beg to move amendment 12, in clause 2, page 2, line 23, at end insert—

“(4A) Regulations under subsection (1) may make provision for the purpose of implementing an international trade agreement only if the provisions of that international trade agreement do not in any way restrict the ability—

(a) to make public services at a national or local level subject to public monopoly;

(b) to make public services at a national or local level subject to exclusive rights granted to private operators; and

(c) to bring public services at a national or local level back into the public sector for delivery by public sector employees.”

We have significant written evidence to support this amendment—from the TUC, the British Medical Journal and the Trade Justice Movement. It is about ensuring that international trade agreements do not undermine the ability of Governments at national or local level to run services in the public sector or in a public monopoly in the private sector. Importantly, it also has provision for bringing services that have been privatised back into the public sector—as we have just seen with the probation service—when they have failed after a botched privatisation. We have seen the desirability of doing that all too often with outsourcing, as more and more councils seek to bring services back in-house.

However, with negative lists, standstill clauses and ratchet clauses in international trade agreements, it is becoming increasingly difficult for Governments to do these things. Negative lists ensure that only those services that are specified can be considered in the public sector. Standstill clauses mean that services cannot be brought back into the public sector. Ratchet clauses mean that we see increasing privatisation, with no prospect of a reduction. Failure to abide by them enables overseas interests to take legal action against the Government in this country. The proposed provisions need to be included for those reasons; otherwise, we face real problems in our national health service and elsewhere in our public services.

The Conservative party pledged in its manifesto last year that the NHS would be off the table in a trade agreement, but the pledge did not specifically cover any of the aspects that I have just described, including negative listing and standstill and ratchet clauses. There is digital trade as well. I did not deal with digital trade in my earlier remarks, but it is important because it covers areas such as NHS data, including patient data, which is of great concern to many people.

There is an opportunity for Government Members to rectify that omission from their manifesto by voting for our amendment. If they are committed to the NHS and our other public services, they can support the amendment and ensure that the opportunities are available for the public sector to deliver public services in the public interest.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?

[Bill Esterson]

I have finished.

Trade Bill (Fourth sitting)

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 18th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

I come back to this issue of co-operatives being able to access public procurement and the importance in that sense of amendments 24, 25, 26 and 27. Germany has a co-op sector four times the size of the UK’s as a percentage of GDP and France has one six times the size. The co-op sectors in the Netherlands, Finland, Sweden and New Zealand account for between 5% and 10% of GDP compared with 2% in the UK. I fear that, in part, that is because those managing public procurement contracts do not understand how to engage as much as they might with the co-operative movement and the opportunities that are there. If amendment 26, which my hon. Friend the Member for Sefton Central has tabled, helps in a very small way those small and medium-sized businesses in the co-op sector to get access to public contracts, that can only be a good thing.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

I, too, would like to see a greater diversity of types of enterprise and we should do anything that we can in that regard. Co-operative, owner-managed and small businesses are all worthy of our support. I did not want to let the comments that are being made and the amendments that are being spoken to conclude without recording the fact that, if we look merely at the thrust of the amendments, one would conclude that the hon. Gentleman does not fully understand the benefits of free trade, or the substance of what we are trying to achieve in terms of creating wealth, prosperity and opportunities for people, lifting people out of poverty, making sure that our economy is competitive, and creating the tax and the wealth that will produce our public services and make us thrive. I just wanted, by means of an intervention, to give him the opportunity to place on record all those positive benefits of trade, as well as the opportunities that he is seeking to create through the amendments.

[Gareth Thomas]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I will send him the Co-op party membership application form as a result of this exchange. It is very nice to find a new convert from the Conservative Benches to the need for a more diverse economy. I had thought that the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) was the only such enlightened Member of Parliament on those Benches, but I am glad that the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs is first up of the new intake to catch my eye.

Trade Bill (First sitting)

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Tuesday 16th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I will move on to Andrew Griffith and to Stewart Hosie. I remind witnesses to speak slowly, because the sound quality is not brilliant in the Committee Room. We are struggling to hear you. It would be very helpful if you could speak slowly and speak up.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

Q Good morning, Jonathan and Allie. As the representatives of the two pre-eminent business organisations, it would be good to hear from you about what jeopardy you foresee if we are not successful in passing the Trade Bill. As I understand it, collectively the roll-over agreements account for 16% of all our trade, but it may be much more for certain sectors. May I ask that first to Jonathan?

Jonathan Brenton: I think we can take it as a given that the continuity of trade is the biggest priority for our members. Let us break that down into two questions. If the UK were to lose access to its trade deals, I think there would be an enormous loss in credibility in our trade policy and a loss of trust among business.

In terms of the individual sectors, I will take the specific example of Turkey. Turkey is a special case, of course, because it is in a customs union, but we know that it is pushing for a trade deal, which the UK would welcome. It all depends on getting a good EU deal, or an EU deal. If there were no trade deal with Turkey, a multi-billion auto trade—I would have to dig out the figure for you—that has doubled in the last five or six years, would face a 10% tariff. That would be an enormous shock to the UK auto industry. That is the kind of practical—[Inaudible.]

[The Chair]

Thank you. Allie, can we have your view please? Have we lost the connection? Allie can you hear us? Jonathan are you still on the phone? I will suspend the proceedings for a moment while we sort this out.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

Mr Freeland, are you still there?

Roy Freeland—ammunition for future negotiations, and some form of remedy in the short term.

[Andrew Griffith]

Q Good morning, Mr Freeland. To tease that out a little more if I may, my understanding is that the interoperation between the clauses relating to the GPA and the Trade Remedies Authority would achieve just what you are looking for—a set of reciprocal rules and sanctions, to the extent that those are not being applied. However, my understanding may be imperfect. Are you making a different proposal, or do you feel that the Bill as drafted achieves your objectives?

Roy Freeland: I am afraid I am not an expert in reading parliamentary legislation, but I did not get the impression that the Bill is quite as explicit as I would like it to be. Certainly, the Trade Remedies Authority would be the right route to deal with this, possibly with a little help from a statutory instrument under the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018. However, it is a very important issue.

The EU described the Buy America provisions of the Surface Transportation Assistance Act as one of the most fundamental obstacles to accessing to US procurement. The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership fell over, and this Buy America provision was one of the issues. I am not advocating that we should have a—how can I put it?—Don’t Buy America Act, as much as I would like to see that. That might be rather provocative. However, we should have provisions to take action, and if a few US steel makers, for example, found that they could not supply High Speed 2 with rail track because of such rules in the Act, I think some reverse pressure might be put on the Americans to reconsider their position.

[Andrew Griffith]

I have no further questions. However, I think you should be reassured, Mr Freeland, and we wish you all the best with the successful exports of your business going forward.

Roy Freeland: Thank you.

[Bill Esterson]

Q Good morning, Mr Freeland. To follow up what you were saying about the Buy America provisions, rather than our taking a negative approach to procurement in America, would you like to see Buy British or something similar in the UK for SMEs such as yours?

Roy Freeland: I am not convinced, as a supporter of free trade, that a Buy British element is appropriate. All I suggest is that we ensure adequate reciprocity, so that if a country effectively has Buy Local Acts, such as the Buy America provisions, we can respond by saying, “You’ve got that; we’ve got similar provisions.” Indeed, tenders could request confirmation from tenderers that their own country would not prohibit comparable and effective access in reverse. A simple requirement like that is appropriate at this stage, rather than prejudging the whole US FTA.

I should point out that the World Trade Organisation and the EU have noticeably failed to deal with Buy America. Therefore, one needs to look at it in another way.

UK-US Trade Deal

Andrew Griffith Excerpts

Monday 2nd March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

I do agree. I know the Americans have an affinity both for Yorkshire tea and Yorkshire beer.

[Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the removal of the tariff of 19.8 cents on every litre of English sparkling wine represents a great opportunity?

[Elizabeth Truss]

My friend is absolutely right. We have seen the growth of sparkling wine exports, which now, I think, total more than £100 million a year. I see huge opportunities in removing those tariffs and getting more of our excellent sparkling wine into the United States.