Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con)
The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)
The most recent estimate shows that Ministry of Defence investment supports 219,000 jobs in industries across the United Kingdom. Continued high and focused investment in defence, along with the changes that we continue to make as part of our defence and security industrial strategy, will contribute to further economic growth and prosperity across the Union.
Mr Mohindra
I thank the Minister for that answer. Ahead of Armistice Day last month, I was contacted by Northwood military headquarters in my constituency to help organise a tour of this place for the submarine service. I thank Captain James Clark and Conservative Friends of the Armed Forces for their help in making that happen. Does the Minister agree that during this time of global turbulence we should do all we can to support and champion the members of our armed forces?
Alex Chalk
My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I pay tribute to him for taking the time to visit the Northwood military headquarters. There are 1,600 active service personnel at Northwood HQ, and their work is crucial to protecting our people, territories, values and interests at home and overseas. He is right to pay tribute to them, and I join him in that.
Antony Higginbotham
Thanks to this Secretary of State for Defence, Lancashire is home to the newest part of the armed forces, the National Cyber Force. That brings huge opportunities to our county, not only through the thousands of armed forces personnel who will eventually be stationed there, but with the cyber-security companies that we hope will cluster around the site in the years ahead. To really seize the opportunity, however, we need to ensure that we give local people the skills they need to join the NCF or other cyber-security businesses. Will the Minister meet me to discuss what steps we can take to ensure that the MOD supports the growth of its cyber-cluster, centred on the NCF, and the links between the NCF and local education providers?
Alex Chalk
I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for the close interest he has taken in the establishment of the National Cyber Force in Samlesbury, which has cemented the north-west’s position as a key UK cyber-cluster. He will be aware that last week we announced the trilateral international partnership between the UK, Japan and Italy to develop next-generation Tempest fighters, which will also benefit the north-west. He is absolutely right that, with regard to skills, we need to encourage the creation of local partnerships between Government, industry and universities. I am pleased to note that Lancaster University has announced a £19 million investment in data and cyber-security research, teaching and innovation. I would, of course, be delighted to meet him.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
The Defence Committee recently had before us representatives from Boeing, which has been awarded some £6 billion-worth of contracts in recent years. A representative confirmed that Boeing directly employs only 1,600 people in the UK. Does the Minister not agree that that is a pretty poor return on the investment and that it certainly would not be the case in the United States?
Alex Chalk
I met Boeing recently, and we are always keen to see investment in the UK. We are absolutely delighted that, because of the pipeline of investment that the Government have commissioned—from ships to cyber to space—we are investing in jobs and capability, and we are ensuring that we take expertise from wherever it is in the world, securing jobs in this country.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
We welcome the Government’s commitment to job creation; the problem is that they are creating jobs abroad, including in Spain. The Defence Secretary has just picked a Spanish firm to build the Royal Navy’s three new fleet support ships. At least 40% of that work will go abroad and the best that the Defence Secretary could tell the Scottish Affairs Committee the other day was that the contractor will
“fully assemble the final ship in a UK yard.”
As a result of the Defence Secretary’s decision, how many jobs will be created in Spain and not in the UK?
Alex Chalk
Respectfully, I completely reject the tenor of that question. We should be celebrating the fact that, as a result of the commitment that we are making to UK shipbuilding, there will be 2,000 jobs in the UK and there will be shipbuilding industries in Appledore and in Northern Ireland. That comes on top of the 1,700 jobs secured as a result of the Type 26, the 3,000 jobs as a result of cyber investment and further jobs in respect of the future combat air system. This Government are investing in defence, in shipbuilding, in land, in sea and in air. We will continue to do exactly that.
John Healey
Well, the Minister told me in answer to a parliamentary question that the
“number of jobs sustained in Spain…is a matter for the contractor”.
We could have had 100% of the jobs in Britain. This is a dodgy decision, whichever way we view it. On 21 November, I received confirmation in a written answer that the prime contractor for this £1.6 billion contract will be a company that was registered only in May, with no trading history, with capital of just £10,000 and with two directors, both living in Spain. What guarantees can the Minister give the British taxpayer and the Royal Navy that this contract will not betray British jobs and UK industry?
Alex Chalk
What I genuinely do not understand is why the Opposition are not welcoming a deal that is bringing more than £70 million into Belfast, securing jobs in the shipbuilding industry in this country and ensuring, by the way, that the base of industrial support goes beyond the traditional Scottish yards to include yards in Belfast and, indeed, in Appledore. That is good news. As for the right hon. Gentleman’s point about other countries playing a role, let us not forget that one of the great successful procurements is the F-35. That is an American plane—of course it is—but who produces 15% of the components? The United Kingdom does. That is exactly what happens in these sorts of contracts, and it gets value for money for taxpayers.
Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)
All credit to Babcock—maybe the Minister will join me in congratulating it—for securing the Natural Environmental Research Council’s £45 million fleet renewal programme. Of course, Babcock and BAE should be gearing up to do 100% of the fleet solid support ships in a distributed model across the UK, but they are not, because this Tory Government have awarded a £1.6 billion contract for three ships to Navantia in Spain. When Sir John Parker, in his national shipbuilding strategy—[Interruption]—maybe the Secretary of State could pipe down a second. When Sir John Parker stressed that the Ministry of Defence should embrace smart procurement, invest in yards and apprenticeships, and commission ships with an eye to export, did the Government realise that he was talking about yards in the UK, not in Spain?
Alex Chalk
I listened very carefully to that question but, with respect, we will not take lectures from an SNP Government who put a ship in the water in 2017—a ferry that has now failed to be developed. We are proud that we have got behind the Type 26, which is benefiting the Scottish economy, and indeed the British economy, with an additional 2,000 jobs as a result of the five vessels that we have continued to commission. This Government are investing in broad-based maritime capacity in this country, now and in the future, and developing our capability here in Britain.
Dave Doogan
We hear all the time about the strength of the Union for orders into Scottish yards, but Scotland, still stuck in this necrotic Union, loses out no matter what happens, when this Secretary of State awards work to Cádiz that should have gone to the UK—it’s heads, the UK wins; tails, Scotland loses. I wish Appledore in Devon and Harland and Wolff in Belfast all the best, but without the requisite workforce or skills, they are simply the Union flag gift-wrapping that this Defence Secretary has given to the Spanish shipbuilding industry. I ask the Government and the increasingly ridiculously titled shipbuilding tsar: contrary to his own claims, when the bulk of this work is delivered in Spain, will this Secretary of State and his ministerial team resign?
Alex Chalk
It is very important that the House is not misled in any way. It is not the case that the bulk will be built in Spain. Quite the opposite: the majority will be built in the United Kingdom. All the assembly and all the integration will happen here in the United Kingdom. I hope the hon. Gentleman will celebrate the fact that the Type 26, built in Scotland, secures 1,700 jobs and includes the potential for exports. Govan, Rosyth, Scotstoun—all those yards are being nurtured and supported by the power and might of the UK Union. That means that Scotland’s place is better in the Union, and the British Union is advantaged as well.
Sir James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)
The Minister for Armed Forces (James Heappey)
We are concerned by the growth of Daesh and the continued presence of al-Shabaab and Boko Haram across Africa. We are working closely with our partners across the continent, as well as with our international allies, to ensure that we counter the shared threats of violent extremism and terrorism. Obviously we are supportive of the missions led by the United Nations and the African Union, but we are also increasingly looking at how the UK can support regional solutions for regional problems, and how the UK works with friends such as Kenya, Ghana and Nigeria to support their leadership in the Sahel, the Lake Chad basin, the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo and Somalia.
Sir James Duddridge
The Minister talks about recognised current terrorist organisations, but what assessment has he made of the Wagner Group in Africa, and would he recommend its proscription as a terrorist organisation?
James Heappey
Wagner’s presence in Africa is obviously deeply unhelpful, and it is cynical and opportunistic. It has no interest in the countries in which it operates; it is simply there to extract the maximum value for Russia, and potentially to cause as much chaos as it can for those of us who are trying to help on the continent. However, the Government do not routinely comment on whether an organisation is being considered for proscription.
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)
The defence and security industrial strategy is helping to retain onshore critical industries for our national security and our future. The Ministry of Defence supports the development of a more productive and competitive UK defence sector. With a significant footprint across the UK and the procurement pipeline, the MOD is well placed to contribute to economic growth and levelling up.
John Spellar
May I take the Minister back to the subject of the fleet solid support ships? I realise that he is new to the job, but he has been ducking and diving during earlier exchanges. The prime contractor, as Ministers have admitted, is Navantia. What guarantees have they obtained that the boats will be built in the United Kingdom—especially the first in class—and in respect of the numbers of apprenticeships that would ensure capacity for the future?
Alex Chalk
As is always the case, the precise details of the contract will be set out in due course, but these facts are absolutely clear: the award is of £1.6 billion to deliver three vessels, and this will be a British ship built to a British design in a British dockyard, mostly with British steel. I hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would support this development, because it strengthens British shipbuilding—and, by the way, it also means £70 million for a British dockyard, which he should certainly support.
Mr Sharma
I welcome recent developments in the Tempest programme. Having our own combat air industrial capabilities is incredibly important, and ensures that we are not dependent on the Americans, but what is the MOD doing to ensure that all the enablers for modern combat are built here and bring real industrial value to the UK?
Alex Chalk
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising such an important point. He is absolutely right; this provides a capability that will ensure that we stay one step ahead of our adversaries, and it will be a collaboration. If ever there was a symbol of global Britain, this is it: us working with the Japanese and the Italians to produce something that is cutting-edge. If I may say so, that is a message that I hope his colleagues will understand as well. It is by working with other countries to share and develop expertise that we can make all the free world that bit freer and safer.
Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con)
I welcome Friday’s announcement about the UK, Italy and Japan working closely together on the next generation of combat aircraft. This, of course, sits alongside the partnership of the UK, the United States and Australia—AUKUS—and shows that such partnerships are important not only for our national security and the security of the Indo-Pacific, but for UK companies and UK jobs. Does my hon. and learned Friend agree?
Alex Chalk
My hon. Friend makes the point brilliantly. This is about investing in capability to ensure that expertise remains in the UK, and that we learn and collaborate in developing the next generation of expertise, but there is also the potential to export. Previous examples of our successful collaboration include Typhoon, with more than 600 units sold overseas. If we get this right—and there is every reason to think we will—there will be such opportunities in the future as well.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
Does the Minister agree that, contrary to the Opposition’s claim, supporting UK companies in the defence sector not only makes good economic sense, but is critical to ensuring that the sector is aligned with the Department’s national security objectives?
Alex Chalk
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. So many of these collaborations lead to direct investment into British shipyards—for example, the over £70 million that we were just talking about. But what does this mean in pounds, shillings and pence? It means that those defence jobs are paid, on average, 15% higher than the average wage, and that is just one reason why we need to keep them in the UK.
John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)
Contrary to the drivel we have just been listening to, there are absolutely no guarantees about British jobs and British apprenticeships in British yards. At what point are Ministers going to stop talking about it and actually use procurement to deliver and secure the future of British yards?
Alex Chalk
With great respect, that is completely wrong and risks being misleading. What has been made crystal clear is that these ships will be built, integrated and assembled in the United Kingdom. Appledore will get work; Harland and Wolff will get work—there will be investment and jobs in those shipyards. That is good news and surely something we should be welcoming.
Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)
Ascent Flight Training at RAF Valley on Ynys Môn has been awarded a £175 million contract to expand pilot training, with four new Texan T6 aircraft, a new simulator, 11 additional flying instructors and nine new engineering roles. From 2024, RAF Valley will be responsible for training 53 student pilots, up from 36. Will the Minister pay tribute to Ascent Flight Training, to the whole force and to all those who support RAF Valley for playing their part in keeping us safe?
Alex Chalk
My hon. Friend is such a champion of defence on Ynys Môn, and yes, I absolutely pay tribute to them. It is only through their fantastic work that we can come together as a nation, develop the capabilities that we need and keep us and the next generation safe.
Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
The National Audit Office has found the defence equipment plan to be already outdated on its publication and based on optimistic assumptions. With inflation out of control and with foreign currency fluctuations, does the Minister expect defence companies to bear the brunt of this turmoil, and if so, will this ultimately lead to the loss of British jobs?
Alex Chalk
No, I do not. I am new to this Department, as the hon. Member indicates, but one of the things I am really pleased about is to see the ambition that exists within this Government to develop the capabilities we need. I was also pleased to see that, notwithstanding the difficult circumstances that we and the whole world are in because of inflation, this Government are committed to ensuring that those capabilities remain, that those critical developments—Type 26, Type 31, the future combat air system, Poseidon and so much other equipment —remain in the pipeline, and that we do what we properly should to lead the world in supporting our friends in Ukraine.
Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
The Minister for Armed Forces (James Heappey)
This year has been extraordinarily busy, as the alliance has moved to respond to Russia’s aggression in Ukraine. The Royal Navy has been deployed in the Black sea, the Baltic sea, the eastern Mediterranean and the north Atlantic; the Army has been deployed in Bulgaria, Poland, Lithuania and Estonia; and the Royal Air Force has been deployed in Lithuania and Romania, as well as in patrols over the Black sea, the Baltic sea and the High North. We have also been engaging with the armed forces of both Finland and Sweden in anticipation of their accession to NATO.
Dan Carden
I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. I have had the privilege of travelling to Poland and Finland in recent months to see how we are working with those allies. The UK must support Ukraine for the long term, and it must move beyond ad hoc donations of weapons and lay out a long-term strategy for military, economic, humanitarian and diplomatic support throughout 2023 and beyond. In the summer, the Defence Secretary promised that the UK and its allies would begin to establish a plan of action to support Ukraine into 2023. Can the Minister tell us where that is? The Defence Secretary also endorsed updating the integrated review in response to Ukraine during the summer. Where is that plan?
James Heappey
The hon. Gentleman is right, to a point. There is a need to gift in kind or to find international donations that meet an immediate need because an opportunity has arisen in the conflict, but he is right to suggest that there is also a sort of “business as usual” drumbeat that we must, as an international group of supporters, seek to deliver on. The problem is—I apologise to the House that this is the case—that Putin would like to see that plan as much as he would, and for that reason I can assure him that there is a good supply of ammunition and matériel going into Ukraine over the course of the next 12 months, but from where, when and what, I will not be able to share.
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)
The UK has led by example with its military assistance to Ukraine, but may I invite the UK to step forward again? Until now, the west has publicly stated that it is for Ukraine to determine on what terms Russia is defeated. It is their country and, of course, Ukraine’s objectives are fundamental, but this approach effectively outsources our Russia foreign policy and ignores the wider long-term threat Moscow now poses to all of Europe. Do we accept that this is no isolated invasion? Russia is returning to type by expanding its influence across Europe, by weaponising oil, gas and grain, and by increasingly drawing Iran and Belarus into the fight. This is a European war and it is in our economic and security interests to put out this fire. Our Russia foreign policy should reflect that.
James Heappey
I agree, but I do not think the response to Ukraine is the totality of the UK’s foreign policy on Russia. Russia is a challenge not only across the European continent but beyond. My right hon. Friend is right that Russia is using grain as a weapon and as leverage across the global south, so the UK must seek to address Russia’s malign activity globally while continuing to do everything we are doing to ensure that the war in Ukraine ends on terms acceptable to President Zelensky.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
The Ministry of Defence has introduced a series of measures to support our people to cope with the cost of living, including: implementing the independent Armed Forces Pay Review Body’s 2022 pay award recommendations in full; capping subsidised accommodation charges at 1%; freezing food charges; and increasing travel allowances by 7%. More than 32,000 service personnel have received a £150 contribution in lieu of the council tax rebate, families can save around £3,400 per child per year through our wraparound childcare, and our people in service family accommodation are receiving a £400 non-repayable discount to help with energy costs.
Carol Monaghan
I thank the Minister for his response, but nearly 3,000 personnel are already claiming universal credit, and food and heating costs are soaring for everyone. In addition to what he has already said, what discussions is he having with the Department for Work and Pensions to ensure that all personnel who are entitled to claim universal credit are doing so? What discussions is he having with the Treasury to ensure that personnel are further supported where required?
Dr Murrison
The hon. Lady will know that universal credit is an in-work benefit and is dependent on income, family size, type of accommodation and a raft of other issues. She will probably be interested to know about the further investment we are putting into family accommodation, which will help with many of the problems that have been reported to me in relation to heating and the cost of energy, especially through insulation. I suspect her constituents will probably be most appreciative of that.
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)
The cost of living crisis is no doubt affecting all those in the armed forces, and so, too, will the call on them to help out during all these strikes. Will the Government reward those who so generously give of their time? I know they are assigned to work over Christmas and new year, but are there any signs of some sort of reward or thank you to those who, yet again, have been called on to fill a hole?
Dr Murrison
My hon. Friend takes a close interest in the armed forces, and I think I can assure him that conversations on this subject are happening across Whitehall.
Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
The Army’s most senior soldier says personnel are turning to food banks and second jobs this Christmas, just to make ends meet. Six months ago, I raised the alarm that some troops are having to take second jobs at McDonald’s because of the cost of living crisis. I know the Minister says he is supporting our armed forces during the cost of living crisis, but why is the Ministry of Defence still not collecting data on the number of service personnel using food vouchers and food banks or taking second jobs?
Dr Murrison
I visited the food bank in my own constituency and discussed the reasons that people use them, which are often complicated. The hon. Gentleman will know that we have accepted the Armed Forces Pay Review Body’s recommendation in full, in recognition of the work that men and women of our armed forces do. He will be aware of the very real big incentives to remain within the armed forces, including a generous non-contributory pension, subsidised accommodation and all the rest of it. He will also be aware of the Haythornthwaite review, which I hope will report soon on what more we can do to incentivise people not only to join but to stay.
Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Ind)
Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
As of 30 November 2022, Veterans UK has paid a total of 5,323 disability cost of living payments of £150 to veterans who are in receipt of a qualifying Ministry of Defence disability benefit. Over the past six months, the Veterans Welfare Service has assisted a total of 6,363 veterans with claims. The Veterans UK helpline has answered a total of 29,922 calls. To be clear, veterans—as civilians—are entitled to the same cost of living support offered by national, local and devolved Governments wherever they reside, in common with the general public.
Dr Huq
The Royal British Legion has issued 20% more basic support grants in the last year. Help for Heroes reports that requests for help are up by 28%, confirmed by what Ealing Ex-Servicemen’s Club tells me, which also covers mental health issues. Why is the MOD not allocating specific funding for veterans’ cost of living and associated issues this year? When will it match Labour’s promise to increase veterans’ mental health support by £55 million, to protect those who protected us?
Dr Murrison
I am pleased that the hon. Lady raises mental health, which is a passion of mine, particularly in relation to the armed forces. I hope she will welcome the ongoing work of Op Courage to help our veterans who run into difficulties. It is only reasonable to point out that most of our service community are very well both in mind and in body. However, Op Courage was designed to look after those who are not. I hope she will welcome the extra £2.7 million to expand Op Courage services to better help those to whom we owe so much.
Christian Wakeford
Some 90% of veterans who try to claim the personal independence payment for post-traumatic stress disorder are rejected, according to armed forces charities. It can make up to 50% of their income, and the rejections have left veterans attempting suicide, facing homelessness or becoming reliant on food banks. Why is it always veterans who are left until last and have to rely on charity for assistance?
Dr Murrison
I hope the hon. Gentleman was listening to and approved of my earlier answers on the support that Government are giving to our armed forces community. I hope he will take note, because it is important to understand the facts around suicide and mental health in the armed forces community. If he is not familiar with the recent Manchester University study on suicide, he may be interested to read it. I will be more than happy to send him a copy or arrange a briefing.
Rebecca Long Bailey
Veterans charities are reporting huge increases in demand for basic support grants. Indeed, a recent survey by Help for Heroes found that 82% of respondents were worried about the cost of living, with one in eight having to use a food bank in the past 12 months. The Royal British Legion reports that 14% of veterans aged 65 or over have turned off their heating to save money even when it is too cold. Can the Minister assure me that he is providing support to those services delivered by veterans charities to ensure that veterans and their families across the country can access cost of living support?
Dr Murrison
The hon. Lady takes a very close interest in these matters, for which I am grateful. Of course the MOD works closely with service charities, with whom we have an almost constant dialogue in terms of their caseload to ensure that we do the best we can for our veterans. It is worth bearing in mind that veterans are civilians and are entitled to the same Government initiatives to ease their position in the current crisis as any other member of general public, as I said in my earlier remarks.
Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab)
Veterans and their families have made immense sacrifices for our country’s safety, but, in the run-up to Christmas, we have veterans hit by increased mortgage costs and rising bills, tens of thousands of veterans claiming universal credit and many reliant on charitable grants just to get by. It is not good enough. How can the Minister expect us to believe that his Government will make the UK the best place in the world in which to be a veteran when they are leaving many veterans and their families to struggle this Christmas?
Dr Murrison
I detect a theme in the line of questioning. I have to draw the hon. Lady’s attention to the remarks that I made earlier and to the package of assistance that the Government have provided for all citizens. The focus of defence, of course, in accordance with the military covenant, must be to ease the condition of people who have suffered specifically as a result of their service in the armed forces, which, although most members of our armed forces community are robust mentally and physically, means that particular attention must be paid to those who may have been damaged in some way physically or mentally by virtue of their service. That is what we are resolved to do, and hence, in particular, our support for Op Courage.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
The UK is the second largest donor in military aid to Ukraine. We have gifted almost 200 armoured vehicles and more than 10,000 anti-tank missiles to Ukraine. We have also delivered a number of multiple launch rocket systems to counter Putin’s brutal use of long-range artillery, but, for reasons of operational security, I am unable to give a precise quantity.
Mr Hollobone
His Majesty’s Government have led Europe in arming Ukraine against Russian aggression. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the equipment and personnel losses incurred by the Russian armed forces as a result of the deployment of British weaponry in theatre?
Mr Wallace
Although we do not specifically collect data on UK use of weapons, we can say that we estimate that more than 100,000 Russians are either dead, injured or have deserted. Russia has also lost 4,500 armoured vehicles, 63 fixed-wing aircraft, 70 helicopters, 150 unmanned aerial vehicles, 12 naval vessels and more than 600 artillery systems, and failed to capture a single one of its major objectives from day one. President Putin’s three-day war, or special operation, turns out to have been a disaster for him and his army.
Richard Foord (Tiverton and Honiton) (LD)
Ukrainians have been buying Mitsubishi L200 pick-up trucks from west country farmers to adapt them for use as impromptu fighting vehicles. As the first Boxer armoured vehicles arrive with the British Army in the coming months, what consideration are the Government giving to passing some of the retiring Warrior infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
First and foremost, the type of weaponry and vehicles that the Ukrainians are buying off the shelf like that is not necessarily because of a lack of need elsewhere, but because of the speed and innovation that they require. When we transfer something like a Warrior armoured personnel carrier, it is tracked, it is—if my memory serves me right—28 tonnes, and it comes with a huge long logistical supply chain. We are very interested in making sure that we keep them supplied with equipment that they can use almost immediately rather than having to deal with the huge logistical tail that will come with it. We focus on giving them what we can. We have obviously supported the renovation of armoured vehicles and we will continue to do so.
Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Con)
The House will know that supplies of British, American and other western equipment have been vital in helping our Ukrainian friends to protect themselves against the continuing and merciless Russian attacks, and I thank my right hon. Friend and the Government for all that they have done and continue to do. Does he agree that we and our allies must help our Ukrainian friends not just to take out the drones and missiles, which means supplying them with anti-aircraft systems and fixed-wing aircraft to help shoot them down, but to take out the launch sites of those missiles and drones by supplying the Ukrainians with the use of longer-range missile systems, such as army tactical missile systems? That is the way, truly, to protect our Ukrainian friends and to bring the war to an end as soon as possible.
Mr Wallace
Without my right hon. Friend’s support of me and Ukraine, none of this would have been possible. I place on record my great appreciation of his support through that process. He is right that the Russians are taking advantage of the short-range capability of the Ukrainian armed forces by using Iranian kamikaze drones and, against all the rules of law, including the Geneva conventions, by the mass targeting of critical civilian infrastructure. That is not only a war crime, but a war crime that we must see does not go unpunished. I constantly review the weapons systems we could provide; I hear his call for ATACMS from the United States, but we too have in our armoury potential weapon systems that are longer range and, should the Russians continue to target civilian areas and break those Geneva conventions, I will be open-minded about what we do next.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
At a recent event in Monkstown Boxing Club in my constituency, which was arranged to show support for Ukrainians located in the greater Belfast area, there was huge support and thanks for the work our Government have done to help Ukrainians to defend themselves against Russians. The question is this: we are supplying equipment, but there is talk now that we are only supplying very limited ammunition for that equipment. Is the Secretary of State convinced, first, that we are supplying what is needed and, secondly, that we have the capacity to supply what is needed in the future?
Mr Wallace
We are providing ammunition, although some of it is in the form not necessarily of mass shells, but of more sophisticated weapons systems such as Brimstone missiles or Saab Thales next generation light anti-tank weapons, made in Belfast. We continue to supply those and indeed resupply ourselves. For the areas where we do not have something, we have set up an international fund with the Danish, which has so far raised €600 million, and we will be announcing the first block of purchases from the international community or from production lines to make sure we help Ukraine to get through 2023.
Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
This is an important question and I thank my hon. Friend for it. Defence continues to improve the experiences of Defence women by introducing flexible service, working to improve health, instigating zero-tolerance policies on unacceptable sexual behaviours, launching the Defence Serious Crime Unit on 5 December and creating an independent bullying and harassment helpline. Defence Ministers and officials meet the servicewomen’s networks regularly. We have made progress, but we know that we must do more and continue to press ahead to make the armed forces the best place to work for women.
Cherilyn Mackrory
Next year, Falmouth in my constituency will host national Armed Forces Day. Following the success of last year’s G7, we hope that it will be yet another momentous occasion for Cornwall and that one of its lasting legacies will be that women and girls across Cornwall will be inspired to join the armed forces. I thank the Minister for his answer, but can he tell me to what extent the focus on inclusivity is resulting in better retention of women in the armed forces?
Dr Murrison
I agree with my hon. Friend and look forward to Armed Forces Day in Falmouth. Women are, of course, an integral part of our armed forces and Defence remains committed to improving their lived experience. In a competitive age, our advantage derives from the talent and skills of our people. We really must attract, recruit and retain people from the broadest base possible. Not only is that the right thing to do, but it is mission-critical to our operational effectiveness. We are committed to making the changes required to create a more inclusive environment for all women to pursue long and successful careers—including my two serving daughters.
Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
The UK works bilaterally and multilaterally through NATO and other groupings, including the Joint Expeditionary Force, the Northern Group and the Combined Joint Expeditionary Force with France to advance interoperability and develop a common understanding of the threats we face. I recently met the new Italian Defence Minister to discuss Tempest and the security of the Mediterranean, and later today I will host the Hungarian Defence Minister as we seek to progress Sweden and Finland’s accession to NATO.
Marco Longhi
Does the Secretary of State agree that the joint venture between the United Kingdom, Italy and Japan in the Tempest programme for the new fighter jet is a great example of Brexit Britain? Will he also support ensuring that the supply chain that it will ultimately use is country-wide, including my Dudley constituency?
Mr Wallace
Funnily enough, international consortiums and working together with other countries unlock not only expert markets such as for the Type-26, but investment in defence jobs here in the UK, which somehow the Labour party never seems to work out in its simpleton level of economic understanding. Perhaps the penny will one day drop for the Labour party that if we invest in defence here and work with international partners, we will get tens of thousands of jobs and tens of thousands of pounds out of customers around the world—
Mr Speaker
Order. Sit down, Secretary of State! Can I just say to everybody that there are preliminaries then questions, and we are going on very long? I want to get as many Members in as possible, and we have only got to question 11.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
Vladimir Putin clearly plans to starve and freeze Ukraine this winter as he replenishes his own armaments ahead of a spring offensive. What is the Secretary of State doing to increase the number of armaments—not just from the UK but from across Europe—so that Ukraine can gain ground now, not later, and why does he not get on with it?
Mr Wallace
We are incredibly alert to that real challenge, which is why in August we set up that fund, which has now accrued €600 million, including donations from Norway and the Netherlands, to purchase from ongoing production lines even Soviet-era-type calibres. It is also why we constantly help with the training of our Ukrainian friends up and down the UK, to make sure that they are using our weapons systems in the best way possible, and to make sure that we have the impact they need on the ground. We will continue to work alongside our international partners to deliver that throughout next year.
Ian Byrne (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab)
Alex Chalk
A regional economic impact assessment was undertaken during downselection but did not form part of the decision-making criteria. The consolidation into the Blackpool site meets key user requirements, is an opportunity to bring 700 posts to Blackpool from our other north-west sites, and contributes to the redevelopment at Talbot Gateway through the building of the new Government hub.
Ian Byrne
I thank the Minister for that answer, but I have had many constituents contact me about the planned closure of the Ministry of Defence Business Services office in Liverpool. The movement of jobs will affect them and their families. The new commute of more than two hours—especially with the train service at the moment—will be completely unworkable for many staff, particularly those with caring responsibilities or disabilities. Will the Minister meet me as soon as possible to discuss this situation so that I can share the deep concerns of my constituents with him?
Alex Chalk
Yes, of course, I will meet the hon. Gentleman. But there have actually been some good and constructive conversations with the unions, I am pleased to say, about trying to assist individuals who may want to go—we will try to assist and provide expenses. For those who do not, there is lots of work going on to ensure alternatives should they want to take them. But let us discuss it further—I would be very happy to do so.
James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
May I place on the record my thanks to the outgoing SNP Front Bencher, the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald), for his service and constructive work in this House, and I welcome the hon. Member for Angus (Dave Doogan) to his new post on the Front Bench.
As we approach the festive season, can I also put on the record my personal thanks to the personnel deployed on various operations and peacekeeping missions around the world, many of whom will be separated from loved ones over the Christmas period? On Christmas Day this year, approximately 6,300 sailors, marines, soldiers and aviators will be deployed around the world, serving on 33 operations in 28 countries. On behalf of the House, I would like to thank them for their sacrifices and wish them and their families, wherever they may be, a very happy and safe Christmas and new year.
James Sunderland
In recent weeks, I have had several conversations with senior military officers who, like me, are becoming increasingly concerned by what they regard as unnecessary distraction within the armed forces. Could the Minister please tell me what is more important: unlawful recruitment policy, identity politics and pronouns, or operation capability?
Mr Wallace
I hear my hon. Friend. Our advantage derives from our people. We must attract, recruit and retain the best people, drawn from the broadest diversity of thought, skills and backgrounds to ensure that we meet the threats we face. That is how we make them the most operationally capable armed forces of today, in the 21st century. We must therefore recognise that diversity and inclusion is not just morally right, but vital to that capability. We can debate how we do that, but it is still vital.
Mr Speaker
Order. Work with me, Secretary of State; I want to work with you. You have given very long answers during questions, and we are now into topicals. We have to be short and sweet. Lots of Members on both sides wanted to get in earlier but failed to because of the long answer. Please, let us work together. I call John Healey—briefly, please.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
At today’s Cobra meeting, will the Defence Secretary tell Ministers in other Departments that too often they use our armed forces to bail out their Departments’ failings, especially when he is making further deep cuts to the Army? In addition to those deployed on overseas operations, whom he has mentioned, how many of our forces will be deployed or on standby over Christmas in response to requests for military assistance to which he has already agreed?
Mr Wallace
I will do the right hon. Gentleman a deal: I will raise that at Cobra if he tells his union paymasters not to go on strike over Christmas and not to ruin the lives of our soldiers and sailors.
Holly Mumby-Croft (Scunthorpe) (Con)
The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)
My hon. Friend is a fantastic champion of steel. I agree with her. The support ship competition winner has indicated that it intends to use UK-sourced steel whenever practical and, in any event, for the majority of the build.
Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)
Mr Wallace
First, I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s figures. Secondly, between now and next year’s Budget, I have been given enough to insulate us from the effects of inflation, and we can continue within our current comprehensive spending review envelope. We can discuss the next one when it comes up.
Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
Absolutely. Our cadet forces do a wonderful job and I congratulate PO Mack.
Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba)
The Minister for Armed Forces (James Heappey)
I will write to the hon. Gentleman.
Sir John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)
Mr Wallace
We are grateful to Sweden. Swedish personnel are here in the UK training Ukrainian ground forces with us in the north of England. Sweden is one of the contributing countries. Whether Sweden wishes to donate aeroplanes is genuinely a matter for the Swedish armed forces, but I understand the need that my right hon. Friend is trying to tap into. We are doing everything we can to solve that.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
Mr Wallace
Ukraine has shown itself to be a master of innovation and has already developed several long-range drones that are having an effect. The real question here is scale and numbers, compared with the numbers that Russia is buying from Iran. We need to ensure that that is overmatched.
Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con)
Defence accommodation maintenance contracts that work on a fix-it-when-it-breaks basis ignore preventive maintenance, create perverse incentives—the longer a repair is left, the greater the damage and the bigger the cost—and too often remove the ability of accommodation users to look after their homes. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is time we looked at those contracts again?
Dr Murrison
I am sympathetic to what my hon. Friend says and he can be sure that my hon. and learned Friend the Minister for Defence Procurement and I are looking closely at the FDIS—future defence infrastructure services—contract right now.
Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)
Dr Murrison
I hope that the hon. Lady will be aware of the career transition pathway, an innovation that eases people’s passage from the armed forces into the veteran community. Let us be clear: most members of our armed forces transition perfectly well. Some need help, and the career transition pathway is designed to provide that.
Mr Speaker
We do not want a military-grade long answer—and I am not sure about the hair.
Alex Chalk
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Innovation is essential and we are supporting it through initiatives such as the defence and security accelerator and the defence technology exploitation programme. We have all the plans we need to give us a competitive edge and ensure we stay one step ahead of our opponents.
Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)
According to the Department’s own figures 45% of military personnel in single accommodation in Cheshire are living in substandard accommodation, and that is 4,000 families nationally. That is appalling; are these really homes fit for heroes and what is the Minister going to do about it?
Dr Murrison
I do not recognise those figures but I do recognise the fact that 90% of people living in service family accommodation live in homes that are at or above the Government’s decent homes standards. The MOD aspires to decent homes plus and, this year alone, is investing £176 million in upgrading service family accommodation.
Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)
My constituency has welcomed Ukrainian families with open arms. What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the effectiveness of Ukrainian defence against the evil Russian forces invading the country?
Mr Wallace
I read out earlier the losses inflicted on the Russian army by a much smaller army that is defending against an aggression that does not have any basis in international law or respect for human rights, and that is an extraordinary feat by those brave men and women. We will continue to support all the way through the next year, as will the international community, It is vital that Putin fails in Ukraine.
Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)
Christmas leave is precious, so can the Secretary of State or one of his Ministers confirm that any serving personnel losing their leave over the Christmas period in order to support MACA—military aid to the civil authorities—commitments will be properly compensated?
Mr Wallace
The hon. Gentleman will know about this because, I am afraid that, under Governments of both parties, we have been involved as former soldiers in meeting the consequences of strikes, whether the tanker strikes, fire strikes or ambulance strikes, which are potentially approaching. Yes, soldiers and sailors would prefer to be doing their day job of defending their country, but sometimes they are called upon when the unions put at risk the safety of parts of this country and do so over a festive period. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can have a word with his hon. Friends on the Opposition Front Bench and ask them to get his unions to desist.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Is it not impossible for us to supply ever increasing amounts of munitions to Ukraine and also to replenish our own munitions stocks without a significant increase in our current peacetime defence budget?
Alex Chalk
I was pleased to note an additional £560 million provided from the recent settlement to replenish precisely those stocks. Also, the production lines to re-procure some of the very weapons that are going to go back on to British shelves are already running, and we will continue on that path.
Sarah Atherton (Wrexham) (Con)
I welcome the recent changes to the service complaints system, including separating alleged victims from perpetrators during criminal investigations, but can the Minister explain how he plans to implement the latter in restrictive services such as the submarine service?
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to my hon. Friend who has done so much to advance the cause of women in the armed forces. She will be aware of the two current inquiries into behaviour on submarines and I am not going to prejudice their outcomes. I expect them to make their recommendations and will report on them to the House as soon as I can.
James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)
The Secretary of State will be aware of a resolution recently passed by the Russian Duma that no vessel whether merchant or Royal Navy should pass through the waters to the north of Russia without both permission from the Russians and Russian personnel on board. Will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to reassure me that if a Royal Navy vessel of any kind wants to transit through the northern sea route, either above the water or beneath it, we will do so without let or hindrance from the Russian Federation?
Mr Wallace
One of the international treaties with the most signatures on it is on freedom of navigation across all seas. The United Kingdom stands strongly behind that and will uphold it wherever we can, hence our transit of HMS Defender in the Black sea. We will do that wherever we are able to do so in accordance with international law, and we will not be intimidated by Russia or any other nation.
Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)
It is clear to me that the armed forces will achieve their full potential only if they are as attractive as possible to neurodiverse thinkers, particularly in cyber. The need for unconventional thinkers has perhaps never been greater than it is now, but there can be challenges for them in meeting the core competencies of “soldier first” as well as in physical tasks, as I recently found out when it took me 25 minutes to put on a belt at Sandhurst as a neurodiverse individual. Will the Secretary of State outline what is being done to better attract the talents of neurodiverse individuals into the armed forces?
Mr Wallace
The services are leading in trying to look at exactly that unconventional route in. If we are to attract people to the National Cyber Force and to cyber, we are going to have to think in different terms from 20 or 30 years ago. That is incredibly important. We need to be flexible, we need to be innovative and we need to be modern.
Robert Courts (Witney) (Con)
The Secretary of State mentioned a Ukrainian innovation in the use of drones. Are Ministers confident that in this country we have the right resources and regulatory framework in place to ensure that our forces can also benefit?
Mr Wallace
No, I am not. We need to look at some of those regulations, because one of the things that holds us back too much in innovation, development and deployment is our own regulation. Too much of that holds us back. The Ukrainians obviously do not have that consideration, and they are making amazing steps forward.