Oral Answers to Questions

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con)]

12. What steps his Department is taking to support defence jobs in the UK.

[The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)]

The most recent estimate shows that Ministry of Defence investment supports 219,000 jobs in industries across the United Kingdom. Continued high and focused investment in defence, along with the changes that we continue to make as part of our defence and security industrial strategy, will contribute to further economic growth and prosperity across the Union.

[Mr Mohindra]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Ahead of Armistice Day last month, I was contacted by Northwood military headquarters in my constituency to help organise a tour of this place for the submarine service. I thank Captain James Clark and Conservative Friends of the Armed Forces for their help in making that happen. Does the Minister agree that during this time of global turbulence we should do all we can to support and champion the members of our armed forces?

[Alex Chalk]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I pay tribute to him for taking the time to visit the Northwood military headquarters. There are 1,600 active service personnel at Northwood HQ, and their work is crucial to protecting our people, territories, values and interests at home and overseas. He is right to pay tribute to them, and I join him in that.

[Antony Higginbotham]

Thanks to this Secretary of State for Defence, Lancashire is home to the newest part of the armed forces, the National Cyber Force. That brings huge opportunities to our county, not only through the thousands of armed forces personnel who will eventually be stationed there, but with the cyber-security companies that we hope will cluster around the site in the years ahead. To really seize the opportunity, however, we need to ensure that we give local people the skills they need to join the NCF or other cyber-security businesses. Will the Minister meet me to discuss what steps we can take to ensure that the MOD supports the growth of its cyber-cluster, centred on the NCF, and the links between the NCF and local education providers?

[Alex Chalk]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for the close interest he has taken in the establishment of the National Cyber Force in Samlesbury, which has cemented the north-west’s position as a key UK cyber-cluster. He will be aware that last week we announced the trilateral international partnership between the UK, Japan and Italy to develop next-generation Tempest fighters, which will also benefit the north-west. He is absolutely right that, with regard to skills, we need to encourage the creation of local partnerships between Government, industry and universities. I am pleased to note that Lancaster University has announced a £19 million investment in data and cyber-security research, teaching and innovation. I would, of course, be delighted to meet him.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

The Defence Committee recently had before us representatives from Boeing, which has been awarded some £6 billion-worth of contracts in recent years. A representative confirmed that Boeing directly employs only 1,600 people in the UK. Does the Minister not agree that that is a pretty poor return on the investment and that it certainly would not be the case in the United States?

[Alex Chalk]

I met Boeing recently, and we are always keen to see investment in the UK. We are absolutely delighted that, because of the pipeline of investment that the Government have commissioned—from ships to cyber to space—we are investing in jobs and capability, and we are ensuring that we take expertise from wherever it is in the world, securing jobs in this country.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

We welcome the Government’s commitment to job creation; the problem is that they are creating jobs abroad, including in Spain. The Defence Secretary has just picked a Spanish firm to build the Royal Navy’s three new fleet support ships. At least 40% of that work will go abroad and the best that the Defence Secretary could tell the Scottish Affairs Committee the other day was that the contractor will

“fully assemble the final ship in a UK yard.”

As a result of the Defence Secretary’s decision, how many jobs will be created in Spain and not in the UK?

[Alex Chalk]

Respectfully, I completely reject the tenor of that question. We should be celebrating the fact that, as a result of the commitment that we are making to UK shipbuilding, there will be 2,000 jobs in the UK and there will be shipbuilding industries in Appledore and in Northern Ireland. That comes on top of the 1,700 jobs secured as a result of the Type 26, the 3,000 jobs as a result of cyber investment and further jobs in respect of the future combat air system. This Government are investing in defence, in shipbuilding, in land, in sea and in air. We will continue to do exactly that.

[John Healey]

Well, the Minister told me in answer to a parliamentary question that the

“number of jobs sustained in Spain…is a matter for the contractor”.

We could have had 100% of the jobs in Britain. This is a dodgy decision, whichever way we view it. On 21 November, I received confirmation in a written answer that the prime contractor for this £1.6 billion contract will be a company that was registered only in May, with no trading history, with capital of just £10,000 and with two directors, both living in Spain. What guarantees can the Minister give the British taxpayer and the Royal Navy that this contract will not betray British jobs and UK industry?

[Alex Chalk]

What I genuinely do not understand is why the Opposition are not welcoming a deal that is bringing more than £70 million into Belfast, securing jobs in the shipbuilding industry in this country and ensuring, by the way, that the base of industrial support goes beyond the traditional Scottish yards to include yards in Belfast and, indeed, in Appledore. That is good news. As for the right hon. Gentleman’s point about other countries playing a role, let us not forget that one of the great successful procurements is the F-35. That is an American plane—of course it is—but who produces 15% of the components? The United Kingdom does. That is exactly what happens in these sorts of contracts, and it gets value for money for taxpayers.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)]

All credit to Babcock—maybe the Minister will join me in congratulating it—for securing the Natural Environmental Research Council’s £45 million fleet renewal programme. Of course, Babcock and BAE should be gearing up to do 100% of the fleet solid support ships in a distributed model across the UK, but they are not, because this Tory Government have awarded a £1.6 billion contract for three ships to Navantia in Spain. When Sir John Parker, in his national shipbuilding strategy—[Interruption]—maybe the Secretary of State could pipe down a second. When Sir John Parker stressed that the Ministry of Defence should embrace smart procurement, invest in yards and apprenticeships, and commission ships with an eye to export, did the Government realise that he was talking about yards in the UK, not in Spain?

[Alex Chalk]

I listened very carefully to that question but, with respect, we will not take lectures from an SNP Government who put a ship in the water in 2017—a ferry that has now failed to be developed. We are proud that we have got behind the Type 26, which is benefiting the Scottish economy, and indeed the British economy, with an additional 2,000 jobs as a result of the five vessels that we have continued to commission. This Government are investing in broad-based maritime capacity in this country, now and in the future, and developing our capability here in Britain.

[Dave Doogan]

We hear all the time about the strength of the Union for orders into Scottish yards, but Scotland, still stuck in this necrotic Union, loses out no matter what happens, when this Secretary of State awards work to Cádiz that should have gone to the UK—it’s heads, the UK wins; tails, Scotland loses. I wish Appledore in Devon and Harland and Wolff in Belfast all the best, but without the requisite workforce or skills, they are simply the Union flag gift-wrapping that this Defence Secretary has given to the Spanish shipbuilding industry. I ask the Government and the increasingly ridiculously titled shipbuilding tsar: contrary to his own claims, when the bulk of this work is delivered in Spain, will this Secretary of State and his ministerial team resign?

[Alex Chalk]

It is very important that the House is not misled in any way. It is not the case that the bulk will be built in Spain. Quite the opposite: the majority will be built in the United Kingdom. All the assembly and all the integration will happen here in the United Kingdom. I hope the hon. Gentleman will celebrate the fact that the Type 26, built in Scotland, secures 1,700 jobs and includes the potential for exports. Govan, Rosyth, Scotstoun—all those yards are being nurtured and supported by the power and might of the UK Union. That means that Scotland’s place is better in the Union, and the British Union is advantaged as well.

[Sir James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)]

2. What steps his Department is taking to help tackle violent extremist organisations in Africa.

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[The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)]

The defence and security industrial strategy is helping to retain onshore critical industries for our national security and our future. The Ministry of Defence supports the development of a more productive and competitive UK defence sector. With a significant footprint across the UK and the procurement pipeline, the MOD is well placed to contribute to economic growth and levelling up.

[John Spellar]

May I take the Minister back to the subject of the fleet solid support ships? I realise that he is new to the job, but he has been ducking and diving during earlier exchanges. The prime contractor, as Ministers have admitted, is Navantia. What guarantees have they obtained that the boats will be built in the United Kingdom—especially the first in class—and in respect of the numbers of apprenticeships that would ensure capacity for the future?

[Alex Chalk]

As is always the case, the precise details of the contract will be set out in due course, but these facts are absolutely clear: the award is of £1.6 billion to deliver three vessels, and this will be a British ship built to a British design in a British dockyard, mostly with British steel. I hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would support this development, because it strengthens British shipbuilding—and, by the way, it also means £70 million for a British dockyard, which he should certainly support.

[Mr Sharma]

I welcome recent developments in the Tempest programme. Having our own combat air industrial capabilities is incredibly important, and ensures that we are not dependent on the Americans, but what is the MOD doing to ensure that all the enablers for modern combat are built here and bring real industrial value to the UK?

[Alex Chalk]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising such an important point. He is absolutely right; this provides a capability that will ensure that we stay one step ahead of our adversaries, and it will be a collaboration. If ever there was a symbol of global Britain, this is it: us working with the Japanese and the Italians to produce something that is cutting-edge. If I may say so, that is a message that I hope his colleagues will understand as well. It is by working with other countries to share and develop expertise that we can make all the free world that bit freer and safer.

[Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con)]

I welcome Friday’s announcement about the UK, Italy and Japan working closely together on the next generation of combat aircraft. This, of course, sits alongside the partnership of the UK, the United States and Australia—AUKUS—and shows that such partnerships are important not only for our national security and the security of the Indo-Pacific, but for UK companies and UK jobs. Does my hon. and learned Friend agree?

[Alex Chalk]

My hon. Friend makes the point brilliantly. This is about investing in capability to ensure that expertise remains in the UK, and that we learn and collaborate in developing the next generation of expertise, but there is also the potential to export. Previous examples of our successful collaboration include Typhoon, with more than 600 units sold overseas. If we get this right—and there is every reason to think we will—there will be such opportunities in the future as well.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that, contrary to the Opposition’s claim, supporting UK companies in the defence sector not only makes good economic sense, but is critical to ensuring that the sector is aligned with the Department’s national security objectives?

[Alex Chalk]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. So many of these collaborations lead to direct investment into British shipyards—for example, the over £70 million that we were just talking about. But what does this mean in pounds, shillings and pence? It means that those defence jobs are paid, on average, 15% higher than the average wage, and that is just one reason why we need to keep them in the UK.

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Contrary to the drivel we have just been listening to, there are absolutely no guarantees about British jobs and British apprenticeships in British yards. At what point are Ministers going to stop talking about it and actually use procurement to deliver and secure the future of British yards?

[Alex Chalk]

With great respect, that is completely wrong and risks being misleading. What has been made crystal clear is that these ships will be built, integrated and assembled in the United Kingdom. Appledore will get work; Harland and Wolff will get work—there will be investment and jobs in those shipyards. That is good news and surely something we should be welcoming.

[Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)]

Ascent Flight Training at RAF Valley on Ynys Môn has been awarded a £175 million contract to expand pilot training, with four new Texan T6 aircraft, a new simulator, 11 additional flying instructors and nine new engineering roles. From 2024, RAF Valley will be responsible for training 53 student pilots, up from 36. Will the Minister pay tribute to Ascent Flight Training, to the whole force and to all those who support RAF Valley for playing their part in keeping us safe?

[Alex Chalk]

My hon. Friend is such a champion of defence on Ynys Môn, and yes, I absolutely pay tribute to them. It is only through their fantastic work that we can come together as a nation, develop the capabilities that we need and keep us and the next generation safe.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

The National Audit Office has found the defence equipment plan to be already outdated on its publication and based on optimistic assumptions. With inflation out of control and with foreign currency fluctuations, does the Minister expect defence companies to bear the brunt of this turmoil, and if so, will this ultimately lead to the loss of British jobs?

[Alex Chalk]

No, I do not. I am new to this Department, as the hon. Member indicates, but one of the things I am really pleased about is to see the ambition that exists within this Government to develop the capabilities we need. I was also pleased to see that, notwithstanding the difficult circumstances that we and the whole world are in because of inflation, this Government are committed to ensuring that those capabilities remain, that those critical developments—Type 26, Type 31, the future combat air system, Poseidon and so much other equipment —remain in the pipeline, and that we do what we properly should to lead the world in supporting our friends in Ukraine.

[Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

5. What steps his Department is taking to support NATO allies following the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

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[Alex Chalk]

A regional economic impact assessment was undertaken during downselection but did not form part of the decision-making criteria. The consolidation into the Blackpool site meets key user requirements, is an opportunity to bring 700 posts to Blackpool from our other north-west sites, and contributes to the redevelopment at Talbot Gateway through the building of the new Government hub.

[Ian Byrne]

I thank the Minister for that answer, but I have had many constituents contact me about the planned closure of the Ministry of Defence Business Services office in Liverpool. The movement of jobs will affect them and their families. The new commute of more than two hours—especially with the train service at the moment—will be completely unworkable for many staff, particularly those with caring responsibilities or disabilities. Will the Minister meet me as soon as possible to discuss this situation so that I can share the deep concerns of my constituents with him?

[Alex Chalk]

Yes, of course, I will meet the hon. Gentleman. But there have actually been some good and constructive conversations with the unions, I am pleased to say, about trying to assist individuals who may want to go—we will try to assist and provide expenses. For those who do not, there is lots of work going on to ensure alternatives should they want to take them. But let us discuss it further—I would be very happy to do so.

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[Holly Mumby-Croft (Scunthorpe) (Con)]

T3. I welcome the Government’s steps to support the British shipbuilding industry. Those ships will require a lot of steel. Does the Secretary of State agree that, wherever possible, we should use the world-class steel we make in this country in such projects?

[The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)]

My hon. Friend is a fantastic champion of steel. I agree with her. The support ship competition winner has indicated that it intends to use UK-sourced steel whenever practical and, in any event, for the majority of the build.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

T2.   Over the summer, much noise was made about the Government’s raising the defence budget to 3% of GDP. That has now transformed into the Secretary of State’s accepting a £2.3 billion real-terms cut to the defence budget. Do Ministers accept that that cut will have a negative impact on recruitment, training, family support and pay for our armed forces personnel?

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[Mr Speaker]

We do not want a military-grade long answer—and I am not sure about the hair.

[Alex Chalk]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Innovation is essential and we are supporting it through initiatives such as the defence and security accelerator and the defence technology exploitation programme. We have all the plans we need to give us a competitive edge and ensure we stay one step ahead of our opponents.

[Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)]

According to the Department’s own figures 45% of military personnel in single accommodation in Cheshire are living in substandard accommodation, and that is 4,000 families nationally. That is appalling; are these really homes fit for heroes and what is the Minister going to do about it?

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[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Is it not impossible for us to supply ever increasing amounts of munitions to Ukraine and also to replenish our own munitions stocks without a significant increase in our current peacetime defence budget?

[Alex Chalk]

I was pleased to note an additional £560 million provided from the recent settlement to replenish precisely those stocks. Also, the production lines to re-procure some of the very weapons that are going to go back on to British shelves are already running, and we will continue on that path.

[Sarah Atherton (Wrexham) (Con)]

I welcome the recent changes to the service complaints system, including separating alleged victims from perpetrators during criminal investigations, but can the Minister explain how he plans to implement the latter in restrictive services such as the submarine service?