Oral Answers to Questions
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
2. What steps he plans to take to support law centres.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Ministry of Justice does not provide direct support for law centres. However, law centres are able to bid for contracts issued by the Legal Services Commission to provide legal services in specified areas of law and will continue to be able to do so in the future.
My Department is also working closely with the Cabinet Office to support the cross-Government review into the funding of the not-for-profit sector announced on 21 November last year.
Lilian Greenwood
I thank the Minister for that reply, but what would he say to my local law centre in Nottingham, which, as a result of his legal aid changes, says it will no longer be able to offer specialist advice to people experiencing problems at work, with debts or with benefits? When our local citizens advice bureau is already hugely overstretched, does that not mean that hundreds of people—particularly vulnerable people—will be unable to get the advice they need and will be denied access to justice?
Mr Djanogly
Specifically, legal aid will be provided for a lot of debt advice after our changes. We are reducing our spend on legal aid, and law centres will be affected by that, but the Government recognise and highly value the important role of not-for-profit organisations such as law centres. That is why we launched a £107 million transition fund last year and the £20 million advice services fund this year. It is why the Cabinet Office has also announced a review of not-for-profit advice centres, which is a welcome and important development.
Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)
Is it not an assumption behind the Government’s reforms that the availability of advice needs to replace a great deal of litigation? If that is to be achieved, is it not necessary to ensure that there is a long-term, not merely a short-term, solution to some of the funding problems of law centres and citizens advice bureaux?
Mr Djanogly
My right hon. Friend makes an important point. We are changing the way funding works and looking for alternatives to be taken up. However, we appreciate that, in the meantime, while the reorganisations are happening, there is a need to support law centres, which is why we are looking at transitional provisions to ease that passage.
Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)
Writing in yesterday’s Daily Mail, Matthew Elliott, the chief executive of the TaxPayers Alliance, pointed out that:
“advice costing £80 to deal with a housing problem can save thousands for councils who are legally required to house homeless families…cutting £10.5m for legal aid in clinical negligence cases will cause knock-on costs to the NHS of £28.5m.”
He says:
“Almost everyone who has looked at these particular cuts”—
even Norman Tebbit—
“thinks that too many of them will end up costing taxpayers more than they save.”
Is he right?
Mr Djanogly
No, he is not right. The figures have been repeated by the Law Society. The point is that legal help is not the same as legal aid. We certainly appreciate the strong need for legal help so that problems can be dealt with early, and that is why we are very supportive of not-for-profit organisations.
Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
3. What steps he is taking to promote reform of the European Court of Human Rights.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
5. What assessment he has made of the availability of free legal advice.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Ministry of Justice is responsible for legally-aided advice services through its relationship with the Legal Services Commission. This is publicly funded legal advice, rather than “free” legal advice. “Free”, or pro bono, legal advice is not within the scope of the Ministry’s ambit. Legally aided lawyers do not act for free; they act for money and are paid for by the taxpayer, so it is important that we get value for money for the taxpayer.
Stephen Timms
I am grateful to the Minister for his visit last year to the excellent advice service at Community Links that is used by my constituents. Is he aware that funding cuts mean that that service will stop providing all welfare benefits advice next year, shortly before the massive upheaval that will follow the introduction of universal credit? Is not that a recipe for disaster?
Mr Djanogly
The legal aid scope changes will not come in until April 2013, but that is indeed something that is on the horizon. I have visited the right hon. Gentleman’s local law centre, and it is a very good organisation. As I said to him the last time he asked about this issue, changes are going to have to take place, and that is why we are looking to put in place transitional arrangements.
Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
The legal aid budget amounts to a spend of £39 per person in the UK, while it is nearer to £5 in Spain, France and Germany. Does the Minister agree that the present position in the UK is wholly unsustainable, and that savings have to be made in the light of the financial circumstances that we inherited from Labour?
Mr Djanogly
Savings do have to be made. A similar comparison can be made with a Commonwealth country such as New Zealand, where the figure is about £18 per head. We must ensure that the scarce resources are spent as well as possible, and that people do not go to court when they do not need to do so.
Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)
6. What steps his Department is taking to support victims of crime.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
16. What assessment his Department has made of the effect on women of his proposed changes to legal aid.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Government published an equality impact assessment alongside their response to the consultation, which set out the best assessment of the effects on women of the proposed changes to legal aid. This recognised the potential for the reforms to have an impact on women alongside those with other protected characteristics. We have taken the view that any such impacts would be justified in the light of the policy objectives, especially in the context of reducing the deficit.
Geraint Davies
The Minister knows that the courts are already in crisis due to a shortage of court and judge time. Will he accept that the removal of legal aid will encourage more and more women to provide their own defence, which will add to the crisis of delays and will mean further delay for children, bringing hardship to families and children?
Mr Djanogly
There is no shortage of court time or judge time. I simply do not accept what the hon. Gentleman says.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
I understand why my hon. Friend is bringing forward the changes, but is he aware of the perverse consequences on new entrants to the Bar, particularly women, given the opportunities in relation to being mobile and entering a legal profession in which one or one’s family have not been involved? Doors are being slammed in women’s faces.
Mr Djanogly
Certainly, as far as solicitors are concerned, the number of entries to the profession by women is now greater than by men. I believe the same is the case for barristers, but I will check and come back to my hon. Friend.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Government are reforming the operation of conditional fee agreements through the provisions of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill. The relevant impact assessments are published on the Ministry of Justice website. We believe that meritorious claims, including against media organisations, will still be able to secure representation under CFAs.
Kevin Brennan
Victims of phone hacking are absolutely clear that they would not have been able to take their cases forward were it not for no win, no fee arrangements being available; nor would the critical mass of cases been built up to break the scandal open. Why are the Minister and the Government on the side of powerful media moguls against vulnerable victims?
Mr Djanogly
Quite the opposite: in fact, the high and disproportionate costs in the present system hinder access to justice and can lead to a chilling effect on journalism and academic and scientific debate. In the Naomi Campbell case, the European Court of Human Rights found the existing CFA arrangements with recoverability in that case to be contrary to article 10 of the convention.
Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
T4. Last month, Welsh Women’s Aid surveyed 324 victims of domestic violence who were receiving specialist support, and it found that 46% of them would not be eligible for legal aid if the Government’s proposals were carried out. Why will the Government not listen to the evidence, which plainly points to the fact that many victims of domestic violence will be denied access to justice?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
We have had the Welsh report and are looking at it, but we dispute the figures in it. As I have said on many occasions, when it comes to legal aid, we are concentrating our efforts on helping to deal with domestic violence, and that will be the case following our reforms.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
T3. Do Ministers share my concerns about the unacceptable burdens placed on small businesses by ambulance-chasing lawyers, who pursue those businesses for spurious claims when they have no right to do so?
Mr Djanogly
The Government are taking firm, significant steps to address the burgeoning claims market, which, as my hon. Friend says, particularly encourages low-value claims against businesses and others—claims for which we all end up paying. That is why we are reforming no win, no fee conditional fee agreements and banning referral fees, and why we are countering illegal text advertising and consulting on banning inducement advertising.
Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)
T6. I thank the Secretary of State for saying, following my earlier question, that he would look at the case that I mentioned, but will he examine, or get his Department to examine, whether there is consistency among parole boards and prison governors when it comes to licence conditions relating to exclusion zones? There is nothing worse than a family bumping into the murderer of a loved one in the street, or in the locality. Will he look at the consistency of parole boards’ and governors’ decisions?
Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)
T8. The trade unions directly benefit from current no win, no fee arrangements, earning huge amounts via their legal arms through inflated success fees. What assessment has the Minister made of the amount of success fees paid to trade unions, particularly in personal injury cases?
Mr Djanogly
Unfortunately, the trade unions did not provide their lawyers’ success fee details, or their referral fee income details, to the consultation. However, given that they have received more than £550,000 in donations from personal injury lawyers, it seems that the unions’ lawyers are not entirely disinterested in the outcome of our attempt to rein in the compensation culture.
Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
How is it that an individual on remand for murder can hang himself while in custody? Will the Secretary of State hold an urgent inquiry?
Mr Speaker
Order. My firm impression is that this matter is currently sub judice and, if I am correct in that surmise, I know that the Minister will exercise his customary lawyerly caution, and it might well be that silence is the best policy.
Mr Djanogly
I shall indeed be cautious, Mr Speaker, but I can say that I certainly agree with and understand my hon. Friend’s concerns. This is a regulatory matter, rather than a legislative loophole, but we are in contact with the BSB about it.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Will the Minister recognise the effectiveness of multi-agency working, which is usually led by the probation service? I recently visited the Huddersfield probation office and was surprised by how effective such working is in cutting the levels of crime and reoffending.
Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald) (Con)
One in four girls, some as young as 13, are hit by their boyfriend. What action will the Minister take to tackle violence among children?
Mr Djanogly
Tackling domestic violence is an absolute priority of this Government, and we are co-ordinating action with the Home Office. Indeed, my hon. Friend appeared in a debate that was held in Westminster Hall only a few days ago, and she will have seen the full picture at that time.
Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)
In the Ministry of Justice’s own impact assessment of the cuts to civil legal aid, there are 15 statements that the Ministry does not have evidence for the savings and 30 admissions that the savings are based on speculation. Should not the Secretary of State listen to Citizens Advice and King’s college London, which can demonstrate that the cuts will cost the taxpayer more than they will save?
Mr Djanogly
We have seen the King’s college figures, and we do not agree with them. The fact of the matter is that we have published full impact assessments, and we stand by them.
Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con)
More than half of male prisoners and almost three quarters of female prisoners have no qualifications at all. What efforts are being made, through the training of prison officers, to raise awareness of the importance and availability of prison education in our prisons?
Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)
Throughout the 18 months to the end of September 2011, consistently more than half of appeal cases relating to employment and support allowance took longer than six months to be decided by the Courts and Tribunals Service, meaning that more than twice as many people as the service’s own target are waiting that long. What action is the Minister taking to ensure that they receive their decisions in good time?
Mr Djanogly
The service is under pressure because of an increase in appeals, but I am very pleased to say that in five of the past six months more appeals have gone out the door than have come in.
Inquests (Service Personnel Overseas)
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
My hon. Friend the Minister for the Armed Forces and I wish to make the latest of our quarterly statements to the House giving details of the inquests of service personnel who have died overseas. We would also like to express our sincere gratitude to all of our service personnel who have served, or are now serving, in Iraq and Afghanistan.
To the families of the service personnel who have given their lives for their country, in connection with the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, we would like to convey our sincere condolences and particularly to those families of the 12 service personnel who have died since our last statement in October. These families, and all the bereaved families who have lost loved ones during these operations, continue to be in our thoughts.
Today we are announcing the current status of inquests conducted by the Wiltshire and Swindon coroner, the Oxfordshire coroner, and other coroners in England and Wales. This statement gives the position at 24 January 2012.
To supplement this statement I have placed tables in the Libraries of both Houses. These tables outline the status of all current cases and show the date of death in each case. They also include information about cases where a board of inquiry or a service inquiry has been held.
Our Departments will continue to work closely together to improve our processes and continue the Government’s support for coroners who are conducting inquests into operational deaths. With that in mind, we wish to express further thanks to all the coroners, and their staff, for their dedicated work as well as to all those who provide support and information, both throughout the inquest process and afterwards.
Since October 2007 both Departments have provided additional resources to ensure that there is no backlog of operational inquests. These resources have been provided to the Wiltshire and Swindon coroner, Mr David Ridley, as prior to 1 September 2011 repatriation of service personnel took place within his district at RAF Lyneham. We are also providing additional resources to the Oxfordshire coroner, Mr Nicholas Gardiner, as repatriation ceremonies for those killed on operations overseas now take place within his district at RAF Brize Norton.
Current status of inquests
Since the last statement there have been 17 inquests into the deaths of service personnel on operations in Iraq or Afghanistan.
A total of 515 inquests have been held into the deaths of service personnel who have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, including 19 service personnel who died in the UK of their injuries. In three further cases, no formal inquest was held. In two of these cases the deaths were taken into consideration during inquest proceedings for those who died in the same incident. In the third case, where the serviceman died of his injuries in Scotland, it was decided not to hold a fatal accident inquiry.
Open inquests
Fatalities in Iraq and Afghanistan
There are currently 57 open inquests to be concluded into the deaths of service personnel who died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Twenty-one of these involve deaths in the last six months.
The Wiltshire and Swindon coroner has retained 14 of the remaining open inquests, the Oxfordshire coroner has retained six of the open inquests, and 29 are being conducted by coroners closer to the next-of-kin. Hearing dates have been set in 11 cases.
There is one remaining open inquest into deaths from operations in Iraq.
Inquests into the deaths of service personnel who returned home injured
Eight inquests remain to be held of service personnel who returned home injured and subsequently died of their injuries. Two hearing dates have been set. The remaining six cases will be listed for hearing when the continuing investigations are completed.
We shall continue to inform the House of progress with the remaining inquests.
Legal Aid (Women and Families)
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Ealing, Southall (Mr Sharma) on securing the debate. This is an important topic and one that we have discussed at length. I recognise a number of Bill Committee colleagues in the Chamber today. As the hon. Gentleman said, the issue is still being discussed in the other place, as the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill continues its passage through Parliament. However, I welcome the opportunity to have a debate on this specific topic today.
It is notable that the subject of the debate on the Order Paper emphasises the effects of our reforms to legal aid, rather than leading us to debate only the justification for those reforms. It may be helpful, therefore, if I give the wider context for our proposals, without which a proper response about the effect on women and families cannot be given.
I start by confirming that the Government are committed to the principle that domestic violence victims need support both legally and otherwise. The Home Office is providing more than £28 million of stable funding until 2015 for specialist local domestic and sexual violence support services and £900,000 to support national domestic violence helplines and the stalking helpline.
The Ministry of Justice has contributed towards the funding of independent advisers attached to specialist domestic violence courts since 2007-08 and will have contributed just over £9.25 million by the end of 2012-13. In addition, the victim and witness general fund will provide a total of nearly £15.5 million in grant funding over the next three years to voluntary sector organisations that support the most seriously affected, vulnerable and persistently targeted victims of crime. Of that, nearly £4.7 million will be used to fund 44 court-based independent domestic violence adviser positions across England and Wales for the next three years. My hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) was right to mention that. We will also allocate nearly £3 million a year for the next three years to 65 rape crisis centres, and we are working with the voluntary sector to develop the first phase of the new rape support centres where there are gaps in provision.
Domestic violence protection orders are being piloted in three police force areas. They are designed to give immediate protection to victims by banning a perpetrator from returning to the house, thus giving the victim the breathing space that they need to consider their next steps. Such orders show a real commitment by this Government to tackling domestic violence—and, if I may so, it is a commitment that is rarely recognised or taken into account when directing criticisms to our proposals for legal aid.
Karl Turner
I am obliged to the Minister for giving way. Will he address the point that I made in my earlier intervention? What effect does he think that the closure of 23 special domestic violence courts will have on women?
Mr Djanogly
The hon. Gentleman is avoiding the reality of the situation. In all except for fewer than five of those courts, the service is being transferred to other surrounding courts. I will write to him with the specific details because I do not have the numbers in front of me.
With that context in mind therefore, I will move on to the specific issue of the legal aid reforms. The £2 billion annual cost of legal aid, combined with the economic climate of the day, mean that hard choices must be made. It is essential that resources are focused on cases where legal aid is most needed—that is where people’s life or liberty are at stake, where they are at risk of serious physical harm or immediate loss of their home, or where their children may be taken into care.
As well as retaining legal aid for criminal cases, we are also keeping legal aid for mental health matters, asylum matters, debt and housing matters where someone’s home is at risk and legal aid for judicial reviews of public authorities. All of those are directly relevant to family welfare. That means that we are retaining legal aid to seek an injunction to prevent domestic violence and to oppose a child being taken into care. We are also retaining legal aid for private law family cases where domestic violence is a feature. We will also be keeping and extending legal aid for family mediation. The power to waive the financial eligibility limits in cases where someone is seeking an injunction against domestic violence also remains, so those who need help securing protection will be able to get it.
Mr Djanogly
As I said in Committee, the Government are looking at the question of undertakings and that continues to be our position. We hope to come forward with that as the Bill progresses through the other place. If I am to say very much more, I will not be able to take any further interventions.
We are also retaining legal aid for all child parties in family cases, and of course exceptional funding will be available in any out-of-scope case where a failure to provide legal aid might breach the European convention on human rights or EU law. Taken together, we expect such provisions to mean that we will continue to spend around £120 million a year on private family law legal aid, based on 2009-10 figures. When we include legal aid for public family law matters, spending will well exceed £400 million, again based on 2009-10. We will continue to spend nearly £130 million a year on legal representation for child parties. That represents around 95% of current spend.
I accept that women and children will often be directly and indirectly affected by private family law proceedings, but, as I have said in the past, we have had to make tough choices here. We cannot afford to fund generally lengthy and often intractable disputes in the family courts. However, we know that mediation can lead to better results that are consensually and less acrimoniously agreed and that are potentially longer-lasting than those imposed by a court. We expect an extra 10,000 mediations a year, which is up from the current figure of around 15,000.
Mediation will not always be appropriate, however, particularly when domestic violence is involved. We know that it can have a devastating effect on women and children, as well as men, who are a significant and often overlooked group of domestic violence victims. Domestic violence is also a significant predictor of children being taken into care as well as a precursor to all sorts of other social problems. On top of that, we also know that perpetrators of domestic violence can assert a controlling, insidious power over their victims, which could potentially stop a victim from effectively presenting their case against the perpetrator in court. On those points, I agree with the hon. Member for Ealing, Southall and with Baroness Scotland. However, the hon. Gentleman’s example of a woman who would not get legal aid after running from an abusive husband is not accurate. That sort of case would get legal aid. When a person is convicted of domestic violence against a partner, the partner will be eligible, as conviction would count as evidence. That is why we have made a large, and extremely important, exception in our proposal to remove most private family legal aid from scope of our reforms—that is where domestic violence is a feature.
There has been much debate about the definition of domestic abuse in the Bill and the fact that we do not use the definition of the Association of Chief Police Officers. We are considering that as the matter proceeds through the other place.
There has also been much focus on the evidence criteria for domestic violence to qualify for legal aid in private family law cases. We need clear, objective evidence of domestic violence to target taxpayers’ money on cases where the victim needs assistance. The allegation, which has again been made today, is that the Government’s criteria will miss a great number of genuine victims, and various pieces of evidence have been adduced to support this, and we will continue to look at them. They include the evidence provided by Southall Black Sisters, who have made a significant contribution to the whole case.
Those pieces of evidence refer to domestic violence victims as a whole and point out their difficulties in dealing with the civil or criminal justice systems. We are dealing with a subset of that group—those who are seeking private family law legal aid. They will have, in certain respects, slightly different characteristics to domestic violence victims as a whole. By definition, they will be engaged in the civil justice system. A significant number, nearly 10,000 in 2009-10, will be seeking civil legal aid for a protective injunction at the same time as they seek legal aid for their private family law matter. They will all meet the evidential criteria. We know that in total there were 70,000 legal aid family cases in 2009-10. Let me compare that figure to the prevalence of the types of evidence that we are requesting. Around 24,100 domestic violence orders were made in 2010, the great majority with the benefit of civil legal aid. Around 74,000 domestic violence crimes were prosecuted in 2009-10, and there were 53,000 domestic violence convictions. Around 43,000 victims of domestic violence were referred to Multi-Agency Risk Assessment Conferences in the 12 months up to June 2010.
We also propose that an ongoing criminal proceeding for domestic violence and a finding of fact in the courts will be taken as evidence. Now these figures will clearly overlap to some degree, but what they point to is that a significant proportion of those 70,000 private family law cases that we currently fund will continue to be funded. We think that this proportion will be around 25%, which matches our rough estimate of the prevalence of domestic violence. I should also say, though, that this comes from a number of sources, and definitive evidence is not available.
I have also committed to look again at whether the issue of undertakings in a court can be used as evidence. We are clear about the need to ensure that those who are victims of domestic violence and need legal aid can access it and these requirements are designed to enable that.
Turning to legal aid for children, we have protected funding in areas that specifically involve children. We have retained legal aid for child protection cases, civil cases concerning abuse of a child, and for cases concerning special educational needs assistance. We have also made special provision so that legal aid is available for children who are made parties to private family proceedings.
I should highlight that in civil cases, such as clinical negligence, claims brought in the name of a child are usually conducted by their parents acting as the child’s “litigation friend”, rather than the child themselves. That is a normal part of the rules around civil litigation. As I mentioned earlier, there will also be an exceptional funding scheme for cases where legal aid will not generally be available, which will take into account a person’s ability to represent themselves in legal proceedings where the European Court of Human Rights applies. That will clearly be an important factor in the case of children who might otherwise be left to present their case without assistance.
It is worth noting that the Government published an equality impact assessment, which laid out our assessment of the effects on women of planned changes to legal aid. It recognised the potential for the reforms to have an impact on women and children, but in the context of the cuts that need to be made, and the deliberate focus of legal aid on those who are most vulnerable and in need, we do not believe that this impact is disproportionate.
I do not pretend that the choices we have had to make will have no impact, but they needed to be made.
Legal Services Board and Office for Legal Complaints Triennial Reviews
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
In March 2011 the Government responded to the Public Accounts Committee report “Smaller Government: Shrinking the Quango state” setting out the coalition’s plans for reforming the public bodies sector. It includes the requirement to undertake triennial reviews of executive and advisory non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs).
The Legal Services Act 2007 established the Legal Services Board (LSB) as the oversight regulator for the legal profession and the Office for Legal Complaints (OLC), to administer a new, independent and fair ombudsman scheme for service complaints against authorised persons. The LSB and the OLC were established in January 2009 and July 2009 respectively.
To deliver the coalition Government’s commitment to transparency and accountability the LSB and the OLC will be subject to individual, but linked triennial reviews. The Ministry of Justice, as the sponsoring Department, has today launched a consultation which will last for a period of 12 weeks inviting views. In line with Cabinet Office guidance the reviews will consider the following for each body:
the continuing need for the LSB and the OLC—both their functions and their form; and
where it is agreed that either or both should remain, to review the control and governance arrangements in place to ensure that the public body is complying with recognised principles of good corporate governance.
In conducting the triennial reviews, officials will be engaging with a broad range of stakeholders and users of both bodies. The reviews will be aligned with guidance published by the Cabinet Office: “Guidance on Reviews of Non-Departmental Public Bodies”. The final reports and findings will be laid in this House.
Coroner Services (Charter)
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Government are today publishing their response to the consultation on the charter for current coroner services.
The charter will help those who come into contact with coroner services in England and Wales by for the first time setting out the standards that bereaved family members and others can expect to receive. It also sets out what someone can do if they are unhappy with the level of service provided.
The charter forms an integral part of the Government’s plans for reform of the coroner system, and, alongside the appointment of a chief coroner and implementation of most of the provisions in part 1 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009, will help to ensure much more consistent standards of service between coroner areas.
The charter consultation closed on 5 September 2011. A total of 135 responses were received from a range of stakeholders including coroners, local authorities, voluntary organisations, medical professionals and members of the public. Our response document summarises the views of respondents, and shows where we will subsequently make revisions to the charter.
Overall, there was support for the charter to be published, as proposed, alongside the Ministry of Justice’s current “Guide to Coroners and Inquests”. This combined document will ensure that people can easily access one document setting out first the processes in a coroner inquiry (the guide) and secondly the standards that can be expected throughout (the charter).
Hard copies of the final version of the combined guide and charter booklet will be printed and distributed to all coroner jurisdictions in early 2012. The guide and the charter will then be updated as and when changes to the coroner system are introduced in the future.
The response paper is available online, at
http://www.justice.gov.uk/consultations/closed-with-response.htm.
Employment Tribunals and the Employment Appeal Tribunal (Fees)
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
I have today published a consultation paper on introducing fees in the employment tribunal and the Employment Appeal Tribunal. The introduction of fees to these bodies will relieve pressure on the taxpayer by transferring some of the cost burden from taxpayers to users. It will also encourage parties to think through whether they might settle their disputes earlier and faster by using other less adversarial methods of dispute resolution, such as ACAS conciliation, which will continue to be provided free to users.
At a time of economic difficulty, I also recognise that Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunal Service provides a vital service to business, and must play its part in the Government’s determination to confront the structural barriers that create unnecessary delay or cost to business, or impede competitiveness, employer confidence and the creation of jobs.
These tribunals cost the taxpayer over £84 million per annum and currently no financial contribution is sought from users. The Government think it is right that those who cause the system to be used should contribute towards the cost, in the same way as users of other parts of the justice system contribute to the costs of providing the service. Therefore the principle of charging fees is not in question in this consultation.
The purpose of the consultation exercise is to seek views on two options for a fee charging structure in the employment tribunals and the fee structure proposed for the Employment Appeal Tribunal—all of which incorporate safeguards to protect access to the tribunal for those unable to afford fees.
The consultation closes on the 6 March 2012. For those of you who wish to respond the document is available online, at www.justice.gov.uk.
Oral Answers to Questions
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
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Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD)
1. What assessment he has made of whether there should be a compulsory retirement age for coroners.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Coroners and Justice Act 2009 requires a senior coroner, area coroner or assistant coroner to vacate office on reaching the age of 70. The Government intend to implement this provision as soon as is practicable, although the retirement age will not apply to those in post immediately before the change comes into effect.
Ian Swales
I thank the Minister for that answer. The Teesside coroner is used as a bad example nationally by charities such as Cardiac Risk in the Young and the Royal British Legion. It is led by 81-year-old Michael Sheffield. Will the Minister meet a delegation of local MPs to discuss how the performance of the Teesside service could be improved?
Mr Djanogly
I am happy to meet to discuss the Teesside service, but not the coroner per se. The Lord Chief Justice and the Lord Chancellor are aware of the concerns that have been expressed about the Teesside coroner and have asked the Office for Judicial Complaints to investigate. I cannot comment any further while that investigation is ongoing.
Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)
The Secretary of State’s change of heart, perhaps encouraged by the other place, about the creation of a chief coroner is most welcome, and I look forward to hearing that a chief coroner has been appointed. However, there are still major concerns about the repeal of section 40 and other sections in the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 that provide for the new appeal process. I understand the Secretary of State’s concerns about costs, but all that bereaved families are looking for is a commitment to bring forward a proper appeal process. The Teesside coroner is a very good example of the fact that the current system of judicial appeal is time consuming, costly and damaging. Will the Minister reconsider the decision about the appeal process?
Mr Djanogly
We take the view that it is better to focus on raising the standards of coroners’ inquiries and inquests to ensure that bereaved families are satisfied with the process without the need for new appeal rights and the resulting expensive litigation.
Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab)
2. What steps his Department is taking to ensure access to justice for vulnerable people.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
Access to justice is a wide concept, encompassing general advice provision, access to courts, as well as privately and publicly funded advice and representation. In respect of legal aid, the provisions of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill are designed to ensure that resources are targeted at the most serious cases, in which public funding is justified, protecting fundamental rights to access to justice.
Mr Virendra Sharma
I thank the Minister for that answer.
“The Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill will have a damaging effect on access unless substantial amendments are made in the House of Lords.”
Those are not my words, but those of the esteemed Cross Bencher, Lord Pannick. Is the Secretary of State concerned by the opposition shown by Lord Pannick and others—especially given the enormous time pressure on business in the other place—and will he therefore save considerable time and effort by announcing now to the House his intention to reverse his damaging proposals on legal aid, which risk undermining access to justice for the most vulnerable?
Mr Djanogly
We do recognise that there is a need to provide a suitable level of protection for the most vulnerable. Reforms will ensure that legal aid is targeted at those who need it most, for the most serious cases in which legal advice or representation is justified. Areas that remain in scope, such as domestic violence, asylum, property repossession and protecting children, demonstrate our commitment to that.
Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Speaker—I shall be brief. Is not one of the most important aspects of access to justice the time it takes to get a decision? Are there not still too many unnecessary adjournments in our court process, and what is the Minister doing about that?
Mr Djanogly
With my honourable colleagues on the criminal side of the Department, I am looking at many areas in which to speed up court processes. Indeed, the speed of the magistrates court process has increased dramatically since we came into power.
Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
That is all well and good but what the Minister does not say is that people who need debt, welfare benefit or housing advice will now be out of scope, as he well knows, and that that will have a knock-on cost. This is simply short-termism. On the definition of domestic violence, he also knows that far more people will be litigating in person, which will also be a waste of money.
Mr Djanogly
I must put the right hon. Gentleman right: we are not ending debt advice or advice in some of the other areas he mentioned. In fact, we will still be spending some £50 million on social welfare advice.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
Fifty-three peers of the 54 who spoke in the House of Lords on Second Reading of the Government’s flagship Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill expressed their worries about the Bill. They came from both sides of the political spectrum and many were among the country’s leading experts. Unlike their Liberal Democrat and Conservative counterparts in the House of Commons, they are not Whips’ fodder and will not be bought off by platitudes or the offer of jobs in government. What plans does the Minister have to address the concerns that they raised, or will there be no change from the Bill that left this House?
Mr Djanogly
The right hon. Gentleman mentions the fact that the Bill is currently going through the other place and will shortly head to Committee. Of course, the Government, being a listening Government, and the Ministry of Justice, being a listening Ministry, will take onboard the concerns of noble Members in the other place and act accordingly.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
3. When he expects to appoint a new Victims’ Commissioner.
Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con)
8. What steps he is taking to reform the role of bailiffs in commercial rent collections and repossessions; and if he will make a statement.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Government have given a commitment to provide more protection against aggressive bailiffs. Although there are no plans to reform the role of bailiffs in repossessions, the Government are considering replacing the existing common law right for a landlord to distrain for arrears of rent with a modified out-of- court regime for recovering rent of commercial premises. We will announce details of a full public consultation in due course.
Mike Freer
I thank the Minister for that answer. Will he confirm that the consultation will include representatives of landlords and not just those of tenants?
Mr Djanogly
Of course. It is vital that we ensure that our proposals for transforming bailiff action do not impose unreasonable burdens on business. To that end, we are undertaking further work to explore all the regulatory and non-regulatory options available.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
10. How many trials in magistrates courts in Merseyside were abandoned or deferred due to the non-appearance of either defendants or witnesses in the last year for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
In the last 12 months—from July 2010 to June 2011—for which data are available, there were a total of 5,239 trials in magistrates courts in Merseyside. Of those, 615, or 12%, did not go ahead on the day due to the absence of a witness, while 151—3%—did not go ahead due to the absence of a defendant.
Mr Djanogly
We are certainly monitoring the situation, and I do so virtually on a weekly basis. Since 2009, until closure, Southport courts sat on three days per week. The court utilisation figure prior to consultation on closure was 33%. Since the work was transferred to Bootle courts, the utilisation level of Bootle has increased from 49% to 68% for the month of October 2011.
Dr McCrea
Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Will the Minister tell us whether any figures are available on the cost to industry and individuals in Merseyside, when witnesses attend court proceedings only to be told later in the day that they can go home because the proceedings cannot go ahead?
Mr Djanogly
I cannot do so off the top of my head, but I will write to the hon. Gentleman. There might be good reasons for such occurrences, such as someone entering a guilty plea, as well as bad reasons. The situation is complicated.
Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)
11. What assessment his Department has made of the potential effects on women of planned changes to legal aid.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
18. What assessment his Department has made of the potential effects on women of planned changes to legal aid.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Government published an equality impact assessment alongside our response to consultation, which laid out the best assessment of the effects on women of planned changes to legal aid. That recognised the potential for the reforms to impact on a greater proportion of women, alongside others featuring protected characteristics.
Karl Turner
There have been reports in the media that the Deputy Prime Minister is to announce a consultation on the definition of domestic violence. Will the Minister explain how it accords with the narrow definition in the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill, which will exclude many women from the legal support that they need and will, I believe, put a number of them at serious risk?
Mr Djanogly
As the hon. Gentleman says, there is to be a consultation on domestic violence, although I believe that it will be undertaken by the Home Office rather than the Deputy Prime Minister. We will look carefully at the results of the consultation, but the definition of abuse in the Bill is broad and comprehensive, and includes mental as well as physical abuse.
Kate Green
What steps is the Minister taking to protect women who are victims of domestic violence from the risk of aggressive and unfair questioning in the courts by abusive partners, given the likelihood of an increase in the number of litigants appearing in person as a result of the legal aid cuts?
Mr Djanogly
I believe that some 50% of respondents are currently not represented through legal aid. As a consequence, the circumstances that the hon. Lady describes are common in our courts, and our judiciary are expert and accustomed to dealing with them when they arise.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
Most women, in particular, depend on legal aid cases when starting out in practice. As a non-practising advocate, may I ask my hon. Friend whether the changes will affect the number of women entering the profession, and whether it is likely that the early stages of legal aid cases will be replaced by mediation?
Mr Djanogly
We are certainly promoting mediation as an alternative to court. That is always to be recommended when it is appropriate, which I admit is not always the case. The impact on providers in terms of their sex varies according to the nature of the organisations involved and the nature of the work being undertaken, but there is no real difference between the impacts on male and female solicitor providers of either civil or criminal legal aid services.
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
Did the impact assessment also cover the potential effect of the legal aid changes on men?
Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)
The press were, of course, briefed on the domestic violence review before the House was. It was clearly stated at the weekend that the Deputy Prime Minister would undertake it, but perhaps he cannot be found now, which is why the Home Office will be in charge.
If the purpose of the review is to broaden the ambit of what constitutes domestic violence, why are the Department and the Secretary of State narrowing not just the definition but the evidential criteria, so that whether a woman is supported by a GP or hospital doctor or by a refuge, she will no longer be able to obtain legal aid?
Mr Djanogly
We have no intention of narrowing the definition, and we do not believe that the definition in the Bill does that. I can say, however, that our policy is to end legal aid for most private family law applications relating to, for instance, divorce, ancillary relief and child contact. The main exception is legal aid in domestic violence cases, which we are anxious to retain.
John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)
12. What assessment he has made of the level of compliance by local authorities with the requirements of his Department on health and safety in cemeteries.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
Responsibility for health and safety in local authority cemeteries lies with the relevant council. The Department published guidance on the safety of burial ground memorials in 2009 and burial authorities have been encouraged to take account of it, but there are no plans to initiate individual assessments of compliance.
John Mann
The Minister says that there are “no plans”. Luckily, the new administration in Bassetlaw council has dug up the stakes that were put in by the last Conservative administration, at huge cost to the taxpayer. Why are the Government not sorting out the abuse of a change in the regulations that was made in 2009? Local authorities across the country are still doing nothing about it, much to the disgust of those who visit cemeteries.
Mr Djanogly
The hon. Gentleman’s expertise in this area is renowned, so perhaps I can write to him on the specifics of the cemetery in his constituency. I just point out to him that the Ministry of Justice has no responsibility for health and safety in local authority cemeteries.
Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)
13. If he will bring forward proposals to extend the power of the Attorney-General to refer unduly lenient sentences to the Court of Appeal for crimes aggravated by hostility towards disabled people.
Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)
T4. I am sure the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), will join me in paying tribute to the work of the citizens advice bureau in Amber Valley. What progress has he made in his discussions with the Cabinet Office to secure future funding for such centres?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
The Cabinet Office is working on two fronts: first, in relation to an immediate payment to not-for-profit organisations; and, secondly, in relation to a longer-term proposal to look at transitional arrangements for those bodies. The MOJ supports both.
Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
T8. How many EU foreign nationals currently in English and Welsh prisons does the Secretary of State expect to be repatriated to their country of origin in the next 12 months?
Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)
Earlier this year, I put down a parliamentary question about employment tribunals. I was told that information on the length of time was not held centrally. Subsequently, I have discovered that there is such information, but that it does not show what the Government intend to do, which is to extend the period in which a person has the right to apply to an employment tribunal. Why do the Government continue to drive such a policy when they do not have that information and there is no right to it?
Mr Djanogly
I should say that that is a Department for Business, Innovation and Skills policy. However, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the Government’s policy is that fewer people should go to tribunals in the first place. That is why we are encouraging people to go to ACAS in all circumstances before they go to the tribunal. That is what we have been consulting on.
Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)
Is my hon. Friend aware that 40% of prisoners were excluded from school? Will he work with the Department for Education and charities such as Catch22, based in my constituency, which do so much to get young people off the conveyor belt to crime?
Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)
Last Friday, the Government equality unit announced that the Equality and Human Rights Commission funding for discrimination casework in law centres would end in March 2012 and that discussions would begin for replacement arrangements from April 2013. How do the Government plan to support victims of discrimination in the intervening 16 months and thereafter?
Mr Djanogly
I assure the hon. Gentleman that there are no proposals to end legal aid for discrimination cases. I think he is confusing that with the Government’s wider decision to delay the legal aid changes by six months.
Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)
Sadly, James Herbert, a 25-year-old resident of Wells, died in police custody on 10 June 2010. The Independent Police Complaints Commission investigated and made six recommendations to the police. The coroner is holding an inquest and will consider a verdict of unlawful killing. Avon and Somerset police will have full access to taxpayer-funded legal representation, but James’s family have been refused such funding on the basis that they should use a local solicitor, should not need much preparation and can use their small savings to fund the case. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the Legal Services Commission’s rejection of James’s parents’ application for help?
Mr Speaker
I am extraordinarily, almost inordinately, grateful to the hon. Lady, but before the Minister replies I am wondering whether proceedings are still active. The hon. Gentleman answering from the Treasury Bench might want to take account of that in framing any reply, with the due caution that we have come to expect of Ministers in general and lawyers in particular.
Mr Djanogly
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will not comment on the case itself, but if my hon. Friend wants a general discussion on the legal aid attaching to the case, I will be happy to have it.
Forfeiture Rule and Law of Succession
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
Written StatementsRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
I am today announcing that I have made an order to bring sections 1, 2 and 3 of the Estates of Deceased Persons (Forfeiture Rule and Law of Succession) Act 2011 (the Act) into force on 1 February 2012. The Act implements, with modifications, recommendations of the Law Commission.
The Act amends the law of succession in England and Wales where a person disclaims (that is, rejects) an inheritance or is disqualified from receiving an inheritance by reason of the forfeiture rule. The forfeiture rule is defined in section 1 of the Forfeiture Act 1982 as meaning the rule of public policy which in certain circumstances precludes a person who has unlawfully killed another, or unlawfully aided, abetted, counselled or procured the death of that other, from acquiring a benefit in consequence of the killing.
In both these situations, the Act has the effect that the person who disclaims or whose inheritance is forfeited is treated, for the purpose of deciding who may inherit, as having died immediately before the testator or intestate. This will have the effect on intestacy that persons claiming through the person who is deemed to have died, such as his or her children, will be able to inherit. Where there is a will, the identity of the person entitled to the property instead of the person who is deemed to have died will depend on the terms of the will.
The Act also amends the law so that a child is able to inherit his or her parent’s interest in an intestate estate, where the parent dies neither married nor civil partnered before the age of 18 and the child is alive at the time of the intestate’s death.
Public Bodies Bill [Lords]
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
I beg to move,
That this House does not insist on their Amendment No. 47 to which the Lords have disagreed.
Following consideration of Commons amendments in the other place last Wednesday, hon. Members will know that the Government no longer intend to abolish the Youth Justice Board as part of the Bill. Therefore, I will not be asking hon. Members to insist on the Government amendment agreed by this House on Report. The amendment has reintroduced the Youth Justice Board into schedule 1 to the Bill. As my noble friend Lord McNally made clear in the other place, the Government have never waivered in our commitment to maintaining a distinct focus on the needs of children and young people in the youth justice system. We have never proposed to remove youth offending teams or dismantle the dedicated secure estate for young people.
Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)
It is an unusual experience for a Committee to publish just after midnight a report containing recommendations that are accepted by midday the following day. As my hon. Friend has mentioned youth offending teams, I wanted to remind him that the Justice Committee, as well as pointing to the dangers of abolishing the Youth Justice Board, stated that if it survived it would have to take a lighter touch and a less centralised approach to the management of youth offending teams than it had taken in the otherwise good work it had done.
Mr Djanogly
I thank my right hon. Friend for that contribution and acknowledge that the recommendation appeared in his report. I will certainly take it back to the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt), who will take up the matter in due course.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
My hon. Friend will know that many of us welcomed the announcement he has made and the decision the Government took in the other place. We understand that it was a finely balanced issue, because there is a good argument for reducing or eliminating quangos that are not needed, but on balance many of us will be reassured by the decision. I and others hope that the Youth Justice Board will continue its increasingly effective work in delivering a reduction in crime and a reduction in offending by young people.
Mr Djanogly
I will touch on my right hon. Friend’s point later.
During the debates on the future of the Youth Justice Board, we set out to persuade Parliament that, now that an effective youth justice system is in place, the oversight provided by the Youth Justice Board was no longer required and direct ministerial accountability for youth justice should be restored. My fellow Under-Secretary of State made that point on Report. However, we acknowledge the opposition to our original proposal to abolish the Youth Justice Board. Its abolition was never about saving money, as the Ministry of Justice does not have major savings contingent on its abolition. In that context, we have decided not to pursue abolition using powers provided in the Public Bodies Bill. Instead, we will reflect further on the Youth Justice Board’s future role.
I want to make it clear that the Government still believe that there should be more direct ministerial accountability for youth justice, that there is a strong case for the reform of the Youth Justice Board, and that we will consider our options for achieving reform outside the Bill. For example, a range of powers are open to us under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. We will consider whether and how we can use those powers to achieve more direct ministerial accountability.
We will also consider the position of the Youth Justice Board within the context of the Cabinet Office’s policy on public bodies and its stipulation that all non-departmental public bodies should be reviewed at least once every three years. Let me be clear that the Government’s position on the Youth Justice Board will not be business as usual. Having said that, I assure all right hon. and hon. Members that over this period the Ministry of Justice and the Youth Justice Board have maintained effective working relationships, which will carry on as we take forward proposals for reform. The Government therefore support the motion agreed to in the other place, and I ask that this House does not insist on the amendment agreed to on Report.
Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab)
I am grateful to the Minister for his degree of elegance in basically climbing down from the Government’s previous position.
Our position all along—particularly in the shadow of this summer’s riots, which involved many young people—has been that it is essential not to make precipitate decisions on how we handle youth justice. We continually warned that it would not be appropriate effectively to abolish the Youth Justice Board, which continues to do such excellent work, but that does not mean that it should not be reformed from time to time, or at least reviewed.
I therefore welcome the progress made in the other place on the YJB, which I am glad to see has now been removed from the Bill, but I have some reservations about the Minister’s comments just now, and especially those made in the other place by the noble Lord McNally, who, when speaking about the future of the board, said that
“there is a strong case for the reform of the YJB, and we will consider our options for achieving reform outside the Public Bodies Bill.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 23 November 2011; Vol. 732, c. 1074.]
The Minister’s words today were almost a precise repetition of that, and it sounds like a threat. It sounds as though the Government have made up their mind, and that what we have heard today is not so much a climb-down as a temporary retreat in order to attempt to do on another occasion the same thing that they intended to do in this Bill.
Simon Hughes
If I may, I will add a couple of brief comments.
First, I am grateful to the Government for listening and responding positively, constructively and graciously, as my noble friend Lord McNally did in the other place on 23 November. I also thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith) for his work and that of the Justice Committee in looking at this issue and putting their wisdom on the table, ready for whatever decision the Government made. That wisdom is just as valid and can still be picked up by the Youth Justice Board and the Government in the circumstances that the Government have announced.
Lord McNally made clear one reason for this decision:
“The other point that has come through in contribution after contribution is that the real influence and power in all this has been the reputation of the YJB itself. It has been able to call on friends in its time of need because of that reputation.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 23 November 2011; Vol. 732, c. 1074.]
I associate myself with those whom I call parliamentary friends from across the parties, Lord Warner, who was the midwife—if that is not an inappropriate gender assignation—at the birth of the Youth Justice Board, Lord Elton, Baroness Linklater, Baroness Scotland and others. They have made it clear that although at the beginning it was not evident that the board would be hugely successful, it became more and more successful. I join in the thanks and the tributes to Frances Done, the chair of the Youth Justice Board, and to John Drew, its chief executive.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed was right to point to the evidence on the ground of the success of youth offending teams and of that model. The figures, given all the trends in crime, have been extraordinary and have gone in the other direction. Youth crime has come down significantly. Sometimes we are confronted by campaigns or arguments in our local papers which suggest that youth crime is out of control and that youngsters are running amok. That is absolutely not evidence-based. In England, the figures have gone in the other direction. That is a tribute to those who have worked on the ground in youth offending teams, in collaboration with the local police and local authorities; those who work in the youth service, who do a valuable job; and those who have been on the Youth Justice Board over the years.
I wish to pay one tribute that I may not be thanked for, although I hope that I will be. Steven Bradford, who used to work with me in the House of Commons, went on to work in the Youth Justice Board. He was a wise and useful researcher when he worked here. The Youth Justice Board has been well served by a group of people like him who have been loyal and committed to an important part of public policy.
The Youth Justice Board has the confidence of young people, the confidence of the agencies that work with young people—Lord Ramsbotham is another person who was clear in his support of the Youth Justice Board—and the confidence of all those who watch these matters and seek a better penal policy. I hope that today is not regarded as a defeat for the Government, but as the Government understanding that it is right for the Youth Justice Board to go on. It will, of course, always be subject to review and it is right that Ministers have to answer in this place for the success of justice policies, whether in relation to adults or young people. They have done in the past and they will do in the future.
Mr Djanogly
I will briefly address the points that have been made, because I know that we have to move on to the next debate. First, I point out the consensus that there is in support of our position. I thank right hon. and hon. Members for that.
The hon. Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) made a point about nationalisation. I am not quite sure what he was getting at. He seemed to suggest that we should go back to business as usual. That is not our position. It is true that the YJB has done good work, as was pointed out by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes). However, it does need reform, as has been acknowledged by nearly all speakers.
We established a YJB transition programme at an early stage, to cover three strands of work: abolition, the moving of YJB corporate services to the Ministry of Justice, and the restructuring of YJB staff. The second and third of those strands will go ahead whether or not abolition takes place. It is difficult to disentangle the costs and attribute accurate costs to each, but that is the current position.
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), who explained his concern and, I believe, that of his Committee, that the YJB’s approach is too top-down. I assure him that I will take that point back to the Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt), to help him in considering the options for reform before he brings forward his proposals in due course.
Question put and agreed to.
Schedule 5
Power to modify or transfer functions: bodies and offices
Mr Djanogly
I beg to move,
That this House does not insist on their Amendment No. 53 to which the Lords have disagreed and agrees to amendments 53A to 53C proposed by the Lords in lieu of that Amendment.
Under Commons amendment 53, we would have retained the office of the chief coroner in statute but transferred its functions to the Lord Chief Justice and the Lord Chancellor. However, we recognised the desire to have a single judicial figure responsible for leading the coroner system, a view that was expressed in both Houses and by a range of stakeholders. We therefore tabled further amendments in the Lords that would allow us to implement the office of the chief coroner without delay and bring into force the range of chief coroner powers envisaged under part 1 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009.
We will not, however, implement the appeals provision under section 40 of the 2009 Act, which will be repealed. That will leave in place the existing system of redress, so that decisions can still be contested by way of judicial review or by application to the High Court by, or under the authority of, the Attorney-General.
The proposal before us will provide the system with leadership and will bring further improvements to jurisdiction, training and monitoring, and it will allow us to bring about all those things without further delay.
Jon Trickett
I beg to move an amendment, to leave out “agrees” and insert “disagrees”.
This is a similar debate to the last one, in the sense that the Government have now withdrawn an unreasonable proposal. The truth is, of course, that they did not have a majority in the other place to deliver either proposal, so although some good grace has been shown, there are also mathematical reasons to do with how the votes were going to go in the other place.
Hopefully, Members will never have recourse to the coronial system as a result of a sudden unexplained death of a loved one. We can all imagine that if we did, we would probably be in a difficult emotional condition. We would hope that we would be helped in discovering the true cause of that sudden and tragic death by a modern, professional, strong and independent-minded coroner.
Unfortunately, there have been too many cases reported in which the families, friends and colleagues of a loved one have felt let down by the coronial service that they have received. I do not need to dwell on the many occasions when the service was felt to have failed, but it became clear that the whole coronial service needed to be modernised, made more professional and above all made more accountable.
The Opposition are totally in favour of modernising public services that need to be modernised. We are in favour of reform, and I will not have anything else said. The view that the coronial service needs to be reformed and made more accountable is not simply that of a few party hacks in this place or elsewhere. It is the view of, for example, the Royal British Legion and of INQUEST, an organisation of which many Members will have heard. Between them, those organisations represent many bereaved families, including the families of our fallen heroes. So I have been perplexed throughout the Bill’s progress by the Government’s continuing failure to respond, not to our arguments, but to the voices of the bereaved and those who represent them, to the extent that, as the House knows, the Bill Committee refused to allow witnesses from the Royal British Legion to appear before it so that we could hear what they had to say on behalf of those families.
In the previous Parliament, it became the settled will of this House and the other place that the way to achieve far-reaching reform of the whole coronial service should be—at least in part—through establishing a new post, the chief coroner. The chief coroner’s tasks were well debated at the time and I will not rehearse them. Then, there was a change of Government and, bizarrely, as part of their review of quangos, this Administration decided to abolish the post of chief coroner, notwithstanding the fact that that post is not a quango. We repeatedly warned that that would be a major error and we therefore fully support the Government’s decision to take the office of chief coroner out of schedule 5, thereby securing the post’s existence.
I am happy that the hard work of organisations such as the British Legion and INQUEST, as well as that of many individuals, has finally paid off.
Mr Djanogly
Will the hon. Gentleman explain to the House why he thinks that the chief coroner’s decision is less likely to be judicially reviewed than any other decision?
Jon Trickett
There may be some judicial reviews under the chief coroner, but they will be fewer in number. It will be a far more efficient system. At the end of the day, we want to do what the families want. The families are saying to us—the British Legion, INQUEST and individual families—that they do not want what the Government are trying to achieve. If the Government’s reasoning is to save money, it would be more efficient, better emotionally and cheaper to allow section 40 to remain on the statute book so that a decision can be made in the fullness of time, with all the options having been carefully considered.
It has been suggested that removing the right of appeal, which was in the original Act and which the Government now wish to achieve, will effectively neuter the role of the chief coroner. More sinister than that is a rumour that is now circulating that the Government intend simply to fail to fill the post of chief coroner. Will the Minister now tell the House when he intends to fill that post?
Jon Trickett
I have said that I will not take any more interventions. The Government have moved considerably during the course of this Bill, and we will support the decision to retain the post of chief coroner. We welcome the Government’s decision in relation to that matter. For the reasons that I have given already, I will seek your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, to divide the House on the question of the retention of the right of appeal to the chief coroner.
Mr Djanogly
I can confirm that the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Chief Justice will immediately discuss how and when the post will be filled.
Andrew Percy
I thank the Minister for that.
The question of the appeals process is not quite as simple or clear-cut as has been presented. Despite referring to the appeals process when I moved my amendment a few weeks ago, it was not one of the main drivers behind my joining the campaign. The fact that under the previous legislation it was accepted that the process would not start for some time demonstrates the difficulties that arise. There is the perception or concern that some people might use the appeals process almost to continue the grieving process. Members have talked about getting closure, but actually the appeals process can postpone that closure, which can be difficult for families.
I understand, therefore, that this is a difficult issue. The Opposition spokesperson made a sensible proposal—about having a trial—but that is not necessarily the answer, because, as the Minister said, those decisions can be judicially reviewed. The key point about the chief coroner was his role in driving the necessary reforms, which can continue with or without the appeals process.
Robert Flello
I might have a little more sympathy with that argument had the Minister not said on previous occasions that there was no need for a chief coroner, and that the precautions listed by the hon. Gentleman were not necessary. He cannot have it both ways.
Mr Djanogly
As the hon. Gentleman well knows, the Government’s reforms provided for training under alternative proposals.
Robert Flello
I do not disagree with the Minister—he did say that the Government wanted to provide for training—but the point was made time and again from the Dispatch Box that there was no need for the chief coroner to do any of the things that were mentioned by the hon. Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley). Thankfully the Minister has seen sense in that regard. However, if the hon. Gentleman is right and the existence of a chief coroner means that all coroners will finally be up to standard, there will be few if any appeals, so where is the harm in including section 40? I suggest that there is no harm in it at all.
I think that the Minister needs to do the right thing. I know that he will not do it today, but I know that it will be done at some point in the future.
Simon Hughes
I strongly endorse the views just expressed by my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith). I represent a coroner’s court in Southwark and we have had very good coroners—Monty Levine, who was very famous, and Andrew Harris, the current coroner, who is a friend of mine. However, like other colleagues, I have had experiences, involving constituents and others, of really bad coroner’s decisions. The Taylor family have been mentioned by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello), and Michael, who died, was a constituent of mine. I am also talking about the inquests after the Marchioness sank in my constituency, the battle that the lovely late Eileen Dallaglio had to fight on behalf of her daughter and the battles that all the others like her had to fight. In the end, they had to go through a judicial review because they were terribly treated by the coroner who dealt with that case.
I welcome the fact that the Government have changed their mind and that the scheme introduced eventually by Labour—we had to push but it was eventually put on the statute book—can now be implemented in respect of creating a chief coroner. I urged, as others have, that that decision be taken. It is reasonable to proceed gradually along the road that has now been accepted by the Government. They are clear that they are going to report back on Army coroner’s inquests—the Armed Forces Bill does that. As Lord McNally said in the other place, this is not just about training; it is about monitoring, reporting and direction. That will give us a good base. There will also be an annual report to Parliament.
May I end by saying that I also have the privilege of being the Member of Parliament for the headquarters of the Royal British Legion, and I know that INQUEST has worked with the RBL very well. They are very honourable organisations, they have fought an honourable fight and they have won an honourable victory. The House owes its gratitude to them and to the Government for understanding the strength of feeling on this case.
Mr Djanogly
With the leave of the House, Mr Deputy Speaker, let me just repeat that the Government are committed to urgent and meaningful reform of the coroner system to ensure that inquests are timely, efficient and effective and that bereaved families are provided with the information and support they need throughout this emotionally difficult process. I was pleased to hear the hon. Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) speaking in favour of reform. He needs to be aware that the position on the statutory basis for reform was the same between all the parties in the House, despite differences over the position on the chief coroner. I was very pleased to hear my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith) recognising that and making the point strongly.
The hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) made the very good point that as important as coronial reform is for military inquests, this goes much further than military inquests. I acknowledge his concern that faith groups should be considered and I take that back with me.
Various hon. Members spoke about cost and the implications for judicial review. My hon. Friends the Members for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) and for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) pointed out the need for closure for families and made their points very well. I understand the concerns about the cost of judicial review, but the chief coroner would not have had the final word on appeals. The option of judicially reviewing the chief coroner’s decision would still have been available, and bereaved families might have been encouraged to exhaust all mechanisms for challenging the coroner’s original findings. As a result, we would not have expected any reduction in the number of judicial reviews; indeed, there could have been an increase.
Various hon. Members, including the hon. Members for Hemsworth and for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) asked why we are not—
High Court and Court of Appeal Civil Division (Fees)
Jonathan Djanogly Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Jonathan Djanogly)
I have published today a consultation paper detailing proposals to increase fees in the High Court and Court of Appeal Civil Division.
These two jurisdictions hear the most complex civil court cases, and are particularly resource-intensive to run. The fees structure does not currently reflect the cost of providing services in these courts, meaning that there is a significant gap between costs and fee income. We propose to make targeted changes to these structures, affecting around 30 fees, in order to align more closely costs and income. Taken together, the proposals would reduce the current taxpayer contribution to HMCTS by £12 million to £14 million.
The cost of running the civil and family courts is currently around £612 million a year. Of this amount, 80% is funded through court fees with the remaining 20%, around £121 million, funded by the taxpayer. The Government’s long-term aim is to reduce this taxpayer subsidy by ensuring that fee income covers 100% of the cost of providing civil court services, minus the income foregone to the remission system. This is a system of fee waivers and reductions which ensures that access to justice is preserved for the least well off; around 160,000 fee remissions are granted per year.
Reducing the taxpayer subsidy of the courts service will be achieved through a combination of cost reductions (for example, reform of the courts estate, changes to civil and family justice processes) and fee increases. This will offer a fairer system to the taxpayer by targeting their contribution where it is most needed, and will ensure that, as far as possible, users pay for the service they receive while access to justice is protected for the most vulnerable.
As the cost of running civil court services is projected to decrease due to planned efficiency savings taking effect, it would be premature to increase all civil court fees to cover costs in a single round and risk recovering more than the cost of running the service. Instead, we propose to make phased and measured increases to fees over the short to medium term in order to balance correctly cost reduction and fee increases. My Department has already taken several such steps:
September 2010—inflationary increases to fees paid in private family cases, which projected an increase in fee income of around £6 million per year.
April 2011—inflationary increases to most civil, family and non-contentious probate court fees since each fee’s last increase, which is projected to increase court fee income by around £21 million per year.
This consultation paper represents the next step in this strategy. The paper contains 17 proposals affecting just over 30 civil fees in the High Court and Court of Appeal Civil Division, focusing on areas where there is a noticeable gap between fees and the cost of providing services in particular cases. The proposals cover diverse areas of work in these jurisdictions; the most notable are:
introduction of higher bands of issue (entry) fees in the High Court. The current highest issue fee paid is £1,670, for money claims over £300,000. We propose to add further bands, meaning that the highest entry fee paid would be £10,000, for claims over £l billion;
introduction of time-related hearing fees in the High Court and Court of Appeal Civil Division to reflect the increased cost involved in providing longer trials. The current hearing fee in the High Court is £1,090; we propose to introduce banded fees based on the time a court hearing is projected to last. The highest proposed fee is £10,900, for a case which lasts over 10 days.
Making increases in this way will mean that those whose cases consume a greater resource in court will pay more proportionally for the cost of processing their case, while the remission system remains in place for those who cannot afford to pay fees.
It is available online at http://www.justice.gov.uk/consultations.