Ukraine

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Tuesday 26th April 2022 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

My hon. Friend asks that question having had a visit to Ukraine, and I think he has his suspicions that it is not. We are offering all the advisory support that we can on the Ukrainians’ logistics effort. For what it is worth, I think that they are doing an extraordinarily good job in a challenging operational environment with a huge amount of matériel flowing into Ukraine. Broadly, stuff is getting into the hands of frontline troops, but clearly, as with any army in any conflict, the logistics effort could always be better and we are seeking to support Ukraine in achieving that.

To ensure that the equipment provided is as effective as possible, we must also train Ukrainian troops in its use. That is why Ukrainian troops are currently on Salisbury Plain learning how to use 120 armoured fighting vehicles that they will be taking back with them to the frontline. We are also scoping options to begin navy-to-navy training ahead of the delivery of a counter-mines capability to the Ukrainian navy later in the year.

During the recess, the Minister for Defence Procurement and I hosted Ukraine’s deputy Minister Volodymyr Havrylov alongside Ukrainian generals on Salisbury Plain to look at the equipment that might be part of the next phase of our support to Ukraine. They were pleased with what they saw and we are now working with industry to deliver those capabilities. At the same time, we are still delivering, as hon. Members would expect, nearly 100,000 sets of rations, 10 pallets of medical equipment, 3,000 pieces of body armour, nearly 8,000 helmets and 3,000 pairs of boots. This week, another 4,000 night-vision devices will also be sent to Ukraine.

Our support does not stop there. The Ukrainians are most easily able to absorb former Warsaw pact kit, so we have been speaking to colleagues around eastern Europe and far further afield to encourage them to give up that kit with a commitment to backfilling from UK industry or indeed UK inventory where required. The reply has been hugely heartening.

[Dr Murrison]

Does backfilling mean UK personnel driving the kit? It is highly technical and will require a great deal of training if Poles, for example, will man it up.

[James Heappey]

Yes, in the round. That is certainly the case in Poland. Tonight, I am off to Poland to talk through the detail of it, but, as the Prime Minister announced at the weekend, the plan is to put a mission-ready British cavalry squadron into Poland to backfill some of the capability that Poland hopes to provide to Ukraine.

There were a number of excellent contributions to the debate, among which were some questions that I can answer relatively quickly. The right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) asked whether we are in the process of rearming, given the amount of NLAWs that we have handed across. We are, and that is through a combination of new orders and getting hold of new batteries to refurbish NLAWs that are out of date to backfill those that we have handed over to the Ukrainians.

Many colleagues mentioned food security and energy security, both of which are levers that Russia has held over Europe for too long. I will come back to that in my concluding remarks. My hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat), the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, was absolutely right to point out that the pandemic, Ukraine and Brexit have shown that there is a requirement to reconsider sovereignty and what resilience is required to be truly sovereign.

Many Opposition Members made points about the process for bringing Ukrainian refugees to the UK. As they so asked, I will ensure that my Home Office colleagues read Hansard in full and come back to those Members as they are able.

My right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) said that we require the slingshot so that David can fell Goliath once again. He mentioned the missiles that have been provided. He is absolutely right that the radars that enable counter-battery fire are the missing piece of the jigsaw—we are on it.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) made a wonderfully compassionate speech about support for refugees. My hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Robbie Moore) rightly pointed to the war crimes and the requirement to hold the Russians to account for what they are doing.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax), with whom I have spoken often about this matter, reflected on whether our posture in the British armed forces is the right one as we go forward—indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) made the same point. As the Defence Secretary has always said, we are threat-based in our decision making. We have learned so far that we are on broadly the right track, but nobody in the MOD is too proud to admit that if the situation changes and the threat has changed, we will consider that as and when the time comes.

In the 90 seconds that remain in this debate, I will quickly reflect that if Putin thought that this was a moment to fracture the west, he has ended up with something very different. NATO is renewed and reinvigorated in its purpose and it has reinforced its eastern flank to reassure our allies there. Today, 40 nations came together at Ramstein air base in Germany, where a US-led conference led to an incredible doubling down of international resolve, in which the US has committed to re-arm and assist Ukraine in a transition to NATO calibres—that is really quite a moment—which the rest of the western countries there agreed to support.

Everybody is clear that Russia must fail. Why? Because the geopolitics of the Euro-Atlantic need to be different in the next 20 years from the way they have been in the past 20 years. That means ending the energy dependency and sorting out food security and the supply chain dependency. It also means standing up against the bullying, and it is time to stand up for some respect for sovereignty and a belief in freedom. Putin’s hubris has caused immeasurable cost to the Russian armed forces. Zelensky’s heroic leadership has brought Ukraine to a place where I think they can win. The UK, the US and our allies around the world will make sure that that is the case.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the situation in Ukraine.

Business of the House (Today) (No. 2)

Ordered,

That, at this day’s sitting, the Speaker shall not adjourn the House until any Messages from the Lords relating to the Nationality and Borders Bill shall have been received and disposed of.—(Mark Spencer.)

Ukraine Update

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

On the immigration pathway, the overall number of 200,000 for family and uncapped for humanitarian is a good thing. The fact that Britain is the biggest single donor to humanitarian aid is a good thing. We should not underplay those two facts. I understand the frustration among both Ukrainians trying to flee and Members of this House about the speed of that processing. I said yesterday that the MOD will support the Home Office as requested; it has agreed in principle and we have work on today to make that go quicker.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Exercise Cold Response and the reinforcing of Tapa camp are welcome and will reassure our Scandinavian and Baltic colleagues, but what is being done specifically with Lithuania? It is very much at risk, since Putin’s next move might very well be an attempt to link Russia proper with the Kaliningrad oblast.

[Mr Wallace]

My right hon. Friend raises an important point. That is why some of these countries must take some of their decisions bilaterally, because they will face the consequences of a successful Russia in Ukraine and what will happen next. That is why we have paid extra attention to the Baltics. The right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), the shadow Defence Secretary, is going today to Estonia; I was happy to facilitate that, and I will do likewise for Scottish National party Members they wish to visit. It is important that we work through the Balts together. There are, I think, four enhanced forward battle groups there and we must ensure they are well co-ordinated. For a time, we put some of our Apaches through Lithuania. As my right hon. Friend points out, though, we are acutely aware that the area called the Suwalki gap, between Belarus and Kaliningrad, could be exploited for Russia’s purposes.

Support for Ukraine and Countering Threats from Russia

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2022 Commons Chamber

[John Healey]

My right hon. Friend is right: I have not had time to see that declaration. To that extent that it has been made, it is clearly welcome, brave and part of a growing chorus of brave voices within Russia of those who are ready to resist the way Putin has run their country and to stand up and say, “This invasion, this killing, this contravention of international law by President Putin is not being done in my name.” To the extent that they are taking that stand, I am sure that we in all parts of this House would honour them and support them.

I said that I wanted to mention six areas. Further military support for Ukraine is essential. Cutting Russia out of, and taking further steps to isolate it within, the international economic system is essential. The third thing is pursuing Russia for the war crimes it is committing in Ukraine. The International Criminal Court chief prosecutor has confirmed that he already has seen evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity. He wants to launch an official investigation, and he requires the backing of ICC states such as the UK. This will be a difficult job: identifying, gathering and protecting evidence, and investigating in the middle of a war zone. He will need resources and expert technical investigators. Britain can help with both, so I hope we are going to hear from the UK Government, sooner not later, that they formally support the ICC opening the investigation and that they will support that investigation with the resources that we, as a long-standing, committed member of the ICC, are rightly in a position to provide.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

I very much commend the right hon. Gentleman on his motion. Does he agree that this war, like no other before it, is capable of such a thing, as the evidence will be that much easier to collect, and that there must be no stone that these individuals can crawl under when this is all over that will hide them or protect them? The message must go out loud and clear: if you are in any way complicit in the horrors being perpetrated in Ukraine at the moment, you will be found out and you will be held to account. You will be pilloried internationally, in the appropriate legal setting, for the crimes you have committed.

[John Healey]

I simply endorse what the right hon. Gentleman has said. It is very much in the spirit of the unity of this House on all necessary fronts. I say to the Minister, as I have said on the other dimensions of action required in this crisis, that if the Government are willing to take that step to ensure the ICC can pursue those aims, they will have Labour’s full support.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Heappey]

If the hon. Lady will allow me, I will come to the humanitarian aspect towards the end of my remarks.

Many hon. Members and our friends in the media have been increasingly concerned about the advancing column to the north of Kyiv. They are right to be—it is an enormous concentration of military firepower and it contains the stores needed for a battle in the capital. Let us be clear, however: no Russian military planner wanted to see that column move at such a glacial pace.

There have been cries for the column to be disrupted or destroyed, which is not something that NATO could ever do without entering the conflict, but the reason it is inching forwards so slowly is that it is being held up by blown bridges, obstacles, artillery fire and fierce attacks from the Ukrainians. That column may yet reach Kyiv—it will reach Kyiv—but it will be vastly depleted when it does and we have already given the Ukrainians the tools with which to attrit it further.

The real scandal is not that the column exists—we have known all along that Russia would need to encircle and take Kyiv—but for the Russian people. How on earth could their military leaders think that such a large concentration of military hardware on a single road, backed up in a traffic jam for tens of miles, could lead to anything other than an awful loss of Russian life? Like so many of President Putin’s plans, I am afraid that there is hubris, tactical naivety and a total disregard for the brave young Russian soldiers who he has sent into battle. We should take no satisfaction in their slaughter. The Ukrainians are doing what they must to defend their country and its capital city, but there will be an awful number of casualties because of such dire Russian military planning.

The UK stands with Ukraine in providing further defensive military, humanitarian and other assistance to the country. As I have told the House already, we have trained 22,000 members of the Ukrainian armed forces under Operation Orbital since 2015 and we were among the first European nations to send defensive weapons to the country with an initial tranche of 2,000 anti-tank defensive missiles.

It is an odd feeling, because those missiles are deadly weapons and I am afraid that, every time they succeed, they take young lives. We should reflect, however, that the UK has sent forward a weapon that has become almost a symbol of the defiance of the Ukrainian armed forces, so as brutal as the effect of that weapons system is, it is something for which the Ukrainian people will regard us favourably and be grateful for a very long time.

In the next hours and days, we will provide a further package of military support to Ukraine, including lethal aid in the form of defensive weapons and non-lethal aid such as body armour, medical supplies and other key equipment as requested by the Ukrainian Government. It is not possible to share with the House more of the detail at this sensitive point in operations, but we will do our best to share it with hon. Members after the event as much as we can.

Meanwhile, in response to the growing humanitarian crisis, we are putting more than 1,000 more British troops at readiness, some of whom have started to flow forwards into neighbouring countries. That complements the hundreds of millions of pounds already committed to building Ukrainian resilience and providing vital medical supplies. Last Friday night, the Defence Secretary organised a virtual donor conference on military aid for Ukraine, during which all 27 nations present agreed to provide the country with much-needed lethal aid and medical supplies.

In the midst of this catastrophe, it is important to recognise the importance of the unity that the international community has shown against Russian state aggression. The United Nations General Assembly has been holding an emergency special session, just the 11th in its history, with nation after nation speaking up in condemnation of President Putin and in favour of peace.

We have also seen an extraordinary change in the defence posture of several nations. Germany has increased its defence spending to more than 2% per cent of its GDP, and changed a decades-long policy of not providing lethal aid. Sweden and Finland—nations proud of their respective neutrality and non-alignment—have agreed to donate arms to Ukraine. Even Switzerland has been party to sanctions against Russia. This is a seismic shift in the Euro-Atlantic security situation. If Putin hoped for fracture, he has achieved consensus. Countries such as South Korea and Singapore have also in recent days unveiled sanctions on Russia, despite south-east Asia having largely avoided taking sides in the previous conflicts.

Yesterday, new financial legislation was laid in the House that will prevent the Russian state from raising debt in the UK and that will isolate all Russian companies, of which there are over 3 million, from accessing UK capital markets. Alongside the measures taken by other nations, these crippling economic sanctions are already having an effect. Russia’s central bank has more than doubled its key interest rate to 20%, while Moscow’s stock market remains closed for the third consecutive day in a bid to avoid major slumps. Ultimately, it will not be Putin who pays the price of the economic constrictions, but the Russian people, with soldiers dying, inflation rising and the country cut off from the outside world. As I said at the start of my remarks, we need to show the Russian people some hope for the way that things could be when President Putin eventually fails, as he surely will.

[Dr Murrison]

I am following the Minister’s remarks with a great deal of interest. In his very fine speech, the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), who spoke for the Opposition, mentioned China in his sixth point. I hope my hon. Friend will do so also, because there is one country that could turn this off tomorrow if it wished to, and that is China. What position have the UK Government taken on China? Although my enemy’s enemy is my friend, will he be wary and cautious about his dealings with China, given that China of course continues to commit human rights abuses in Xinjiang, potentially in Taiwan and in Hong Kong? While it is commendable that it abstained at the United Nations, we need to be very careful about how we position ourselves with respect to China in the weeks and months ahead.

[James Heappey]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I have no doubt that my right hon. Friend the Minister for Asia and the Middle East will want to talk about China in her concluding remarks. Right now there is an opportunity to work with Beijing to bring about an outcome that is right for Euro-Atlantic security in the short term, but I do not think that that automatically means we close our eyes to our wider concerns about China and our competition with that country over the decades ahead.

Finally, I want to update the House on NATO defence and security activities. In addition to HMS Trent, HMS Diamond has now sailed for the eastern Mediterranean. We are doubling the number of UK troops in Estonia, with the Royal Tank Regiment and the Royal Welsh battlegroups now complete in Tapa. We have increased our fast air presence from RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus, from where those jets are now engaged in NATO air policing activity over Poland and Romania.

In his excellent speech, the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne asked two questions of the MOD about capability. The first was on cyber-resilience, and he will not be surprised to know, I hope, that there has been a series of Cobra meetings on homeland resilience and that the cyber-threat to the homeland has been an important part of those discussions. It is a capability that the UK has invested in through the National Cyber Security Centre. I would never go so far as to say we are well prepared because, frankly, we cannot know fully what is thrown at us, but the right discussions have been had and the right investments have been made, and I think what we have as a defensive cyber-capability is one of the best in the world.

The right hon. Gentleman also asked me a question about the shape and size of the Army, and he knows from his many clashes over the Dispatch Boxes with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State that it is subject to some debate, but the Secretary of State, to his credit, has always said he is a threat-based policy maker. It may well be that we learn something new from what is going on in Ukraine at the moment, but my reflections in the immediate term, from the operational analysis I am seeing, is that precision deep fires and armed drones are doing exactly what we saw in Nagorno-Karabakh and Syria, on which we based the integrated review. For those in massed armour in a modern battlespace, that is a pretty dangerous and difficult place to be. We may yet see something different when we get into the close fight that will cause us to reconsider. Right now, however, the lessons we are learning from what is going on are exactly the same as those from Nagorno-Karabakh and northern Syria, and the IR was based on that operational analysis, with the Army rightly observing what it would call a deprioritisation of the close fight.

Migrant Crossings: Role of the Military

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

First, there are a lot of questions coming from the Opposition about the incompleteness of a plan. I would just reflect that Labour is routinely and continually silent on what it would do to ensure that our borders are protected and illegal migration is stopped. As for the UK-French relationship, no one has pretended that the part of the plan that I am answering questions on today is, in and of itself, the answer to that challenge. Before it, there is a responsibility to have relationships with France and the EU within which that can be discussed; there is a requirement to attack the criminal networks that do the trafficking; and there is a requirement to deal with migration flows in the first place.

What “land on their own terms” means is that nobody gets to set foot on United Kingdom soil without having been intercepted and brought ashore by the Royal Navy or other agencies. They are then put into a system that I have every confidence will act as a deterrent to make the cross-channel route collapse thereafter.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

I declare an interest as a serving naval reservist. I appreciate that the Minister is being bounced into this, but he must have a plan. Can he say when that plan will be available, and on what date command and control of the operation will swap from the Home Office to the Ministry of Defence?

Ajax Noise and Vibration Review

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

The right hon. Gentleman raises good questions, but I hope that I can reassure him in part. The conclusion does say that the vehicle is not fit for purpose. Of course it is not fit for purpose now, because anything that does not meet our requirements is not fit for purpose. We cannot put personnel at risk, so absolutely it is not a vehicle that we can take on now, and we are not prepared to. We will only take into service a vehicle that actually works for our purposes and meets our requirements.

There is work to be done, but the decision point on whether that can be achieved with this vehicle is not now. A huge amount of work is being done. The time to take those decisions is after the root cause analysis has been concluded. As I said, GD has its own theories and has done its own work, and it believes that it has design modifications that could well fit the bill, but I am not going to take a decision on that until we have examined them and it is more confident of their grounds.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

The Ajax programme wins the competition, from a very long list, to be the poster boy of defence procurement disasters. My admiration for my hon. Friend the Minister and the Secretary of State for Defence cannot disguise the fact that the report is truly shocking. It points towards an institution that does not bake in human factors in the design of our kit and appears to ignore health and safety, to the great detriment of the men and women of our armed forces, including my constituents. It is not good enough.

What is my hon. Friend doing to ensure that people are truly held to account for this? If we have to go to a plan B in the new year, what contingency does he have for mounting stand-off radar, for example, on Wildcat and Watchkeeper, for rolling out the capability on our Boxer and Jackal fleets, and for using unmanned aerial vehicles? Otherwise, thanks to this tin can on tracks, we are going to have a walloping great hole in our defence capability.

[Jeremy Quin]

There are two halves to my right hon. Friend’s question. Given his background, I would expect nothing less from him than to be truly shocked by what this report reveals, and so am I. I was horrified when I read the report for the first time, and I am still horrified now. There were clearly flaws deep in the heart of defence, and people were not thinking through the consequences of actions and their implications for some of our personnel. I think a lot of that was due to failures by one person to speak to another, a lack of communication horizontally, and a failure to elevate problems or for them to be heard properly as they went up the chain of command. But none of this is excusable, and it is outrageous that we have ended up in this situation. We are deeply shocked by what the report reveals.

As I say, there is an ongoing process, but the key thing is to understand what has gone wrong. My right hon. Friend has referred to this particular procurement among others. I am afraid to say that I suspect a similar tale could be told about many procurements of the past. The fact is that on this procurement, we commissioned and published a report and, as I said, it sent shockwaves through the organisations, with people asking themselves, “Have I been doing this right? Am I doing this appropriately?” That is the way to start to implement a change in culture.

I can confirm that we are absolutely in a position to meet our operational requirements. We will always have fall-back positions. My right hon. Friend mentioned Watchkeeper. As he will recognise, there are huge benefits in having ground-mounted reconnaissance, and Ajax can provide a useful tool. We are committed to making certain that it works, but if it would not, for any reason, there will be alternatives to be brought forward.

Army Restructuring: Future Soldier

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Thursday 25th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

I would have stayed in the Army if it had looked like this, but I was in an Army that I think was hollowed out. The equipment did not quite work and the greatest adventure anyone had was probably going to Northern Ireland every two years—that was about as far as it went. Hong Kong had closed and there was a lack of sense of purpose and a lack of a clearly identified adversary that we were setting ourselves against. That is really important.

This Army will be more exciting, more rewarding and more enabling for young people to grow their skills. It will be more fluid with the integration of the reserves, which will allow reserves and regulars to be much more able to move from one to the other, depending on their personal circumstances. There is the investment in the different models for family accommodation and single living accommodation, and a determination to be out and about around the world. The one thing that soldiers do not want is to be stuck in a barracks in the UK doing not very much. They want to be out. I was in Oman only the other week seeing soldiers exercising with the Omanis, and they could not stop talking about how exciting and fun it was. I was in Poland last week watching the United Kingdom forces doing a live-firing exercise in Poland alongside Polish, United States and Croatian forces. That is what I want our Army to do.

When we are thinking about soldiers’ careers, we have to have a system that is much more enabling to them to move up and down the different functions of, for example, the infantry. By ensuring that we have these infantry divisions, young officers and young soldiers can, if there is not enough space in their own battalion to be a sergeant or a colour sergeant, move to promotions in such a function in a similar battalion in a similar division. A young officer who does not want to do armoured warfare, but wants to be with a security force assistance battalion abroad, they have such opportunities to move up and down. I think that will be exciting and flexible, and it will be an Army that will retain people because it will give them an exciting career and make sure that their families are properly looked after.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

I declare my interest as an active reservist and a proud father of two serving officers. For 20 years, I have been fighting what has at times seemed like a rearguard action to keep Army officer selection in Westbury in my constituency. The location will be familiar to the Secretary of State and his two colleagues on the Government Front Bench who went through the process. Will he today commit to a future for the Army officer selection board at Leighton House in my constituency, and how will we invest in that site to ensure that the future officers implied by his description of the challenges going forward have the skills, attributes and characteristics equal to the tasks of the future, as they have been in the past?

[Mr Wallace]

My right hon. Friend has been a more than doughty campaigner on the regular commissions board. Let me put it this way: for many of us on these Benches, the Army would not be the Army without the RCB in Westbury. It is part of the rite of passage. I did not want to see it leave Westbury, and my right hon. Friend persuaded me against any move. He has done a brilliant job, and I am delighted that it is going to remain there. My hon. Friend the Minister for Defence Procurement would be delighted to meet him about the investment opportunities, but who could miss the logistics command task about how to cross a fictional river and work out whether we could do it with three or four people?

Ajax Armoured Vehicle Procurement

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Thursday 9th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

I know the hon. Gentleman is a keen supporter of General Dynamics and employment in his constituency in south Wales, and he will appreciate what I was saying earlier—I meant it genuinely, as I always do when I say things in this House—about how we are working with General Dynamics to find a solution to this. Of course I cannot give a 100% guarantee, but I do believe that we can work together. I sincerely hope we find a solution, and I know that nothing would please him, this House and me more than to have that resolved, have it sorted and then go on to export Ajax globally. I want to raise our eyes and get the right results, rather than focus on worst-case scenarios that I sincerely hope will not be the case.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

May I commend the Minister for the forensic way in which he has tried to get to the bottom of a mess that is not of his making?

The Royal Dragoon Guards based at Battlesbury barracks in my constituency operate, or are meant to operate, the Ajax fighting vehicle, and many of them will be very concerned at the hand-arm vibration syndrome and noise-induced hearing loss that some of them may be victims of. It is a betrayal of the military covenant. He knows very well that there are senior members of the Ministry of Defence, serving and retired, who knew full well the risk of this vehicle at an early stage. Will he ensure that the institutional cloak of invisibility that the MOD traditionally operates does not apply in their case, since if they are allowed to get away with it, as it were, we will not get to grips with the cultural issues that have dogged defence procurement for years?

[Jeremy Quin]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his courtesy and generosity to me personally. Can I reassure him and this House that I will stop at nothing in making certain that we do get to the bottom of this and get to the lessons that need to be learned? He has my absolute assurance and commitment on that. I refer him to my oral statement, in which I said:

“Following the report’s conclusion, we will consider what further investigations are required to see if poor decision making, failures in leadership or systemic organisational issues contributed to the current situation”.

I have said that in writing and orally, and I mean it. That does not mean that we have come to any conclusions, but it does mean that everything needs to be on the table. We need to ensure, if mistakes have happened, that we learn from them, execute on them and make sure they are never repeated.

Ajax Programme

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Tuesday 8th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

My understanding is that those turrets have been built by Lockheed Martin and are being constructed in Ampthill in Bedfordshire. That is my understanding, but I will double-check. If it is any different, I will write to the hon. Gentleman and leave a copy of my letter in the Library of the House of Commons. It is my understanding that that is happening at Ampthill.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con) [V]]

Does the Minister agree that the Ajax situation undermines global Britain’s forward presence objectives as envisaged in the integrated review, such as the ability of the Royal Dragoon Guards based in Warminster to project reconnaissance combat teams, which they were being re-roled for? If it turns out that the vibration issue—[Inaudible.]

[Mr Speaker]

The sound is as defective as the programme. Minister, do you want to try to answer that?

UN Mission in Mali: Armed Forces Deployment

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

No, I am not sure that I do. I think it highlights the success of being a part of a successful UN mission that is resourced in terms of its ability to make political progress, and that it is adequately resourced to make military progress. I am confident that the military part of MINUSMA is well resourced, and the UK will play an important part within it. As I said in response to a number of hon. Members’ questions about the political mission, we just need the politics in Mali to stabilise so that the UN political mission can gain traction too.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

It is absolutely right that the UK should play its part in this, but MINUSMA is the most costly of the UN’s peacekeeping missions, it is the most dangerous, and it is arguably one of the least successful. Furthermore, Mali can hardly be said to be a country of primary interest to the United Kingdom. Can the Minister assure me that our involvement will be largely technical and logistical in nature, that it will be modest, rather like our engagement with Operation Barkhane, and that we will not be subject to mission creep?

[James Heappey]

I can reassure my right hon. Friend that there will be no mission creep. This is a UN mission and our role is confined to that. I cannot, however, tell him that it is limited to logistical and technical involvement. This specialist reconnaissance force has been committed to MINUSMA precisely to provide an ability to understand where the threat is and to deliver a population-centric peacekeeping mission. This is time-limited and necessary. I accept that there is no obvious UK interest in Mali itself, but there is a great deal to be said for being there: first, because the humanitarian situation requires it; and, secondly, because the Sahel is a huge space on Europe’s southern flank in which violence is flourishing, and it is in the interests neither of countries in Europe nor of countries in coastal west Africa, where the UK has more obvious interests, that we do not work against the violence in the Sahel, but see it exported to places where the UK has more obvious interests.

Virtual participation in proceedings concluded (Order, 4 June).

Points of Order

Andrew Murrison Excerpts

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I allowed the Chairman of the Defence Committee his moment, but he knows and we all know that it is not a point of order. He has made his point to the Secretary of State and I am sure that there will be other opportunities to explore the matter further.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am very grateful for your indulgence, as I speak as one of the reservists in question. I just want to point out that it is deeply demoralising for members of the armed forces if they are not told about this in advance but learn about it from the pages of The Daily Telegraph, excellent though The Daily Telegraph is. Can I seek your advice on whether you feel that that is appropriate?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

No, the right hon. Gentleman cannot seek my advice, because it is not my business to decide whether it is appropriate. However, given his position in this House I have allowed him to make his point, and I believe that it has been heard and paid attention to by the Secretary of State and the Minister.