Media Plurality (Wales)

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

It is a pleasure to serve once again under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I welcome this debate on an important issue, and pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), who has shown an interest in the subject for many years since he came to the House. He is a champion of plurality, S4C, the Welsh language and news consumption, which are matters I want to return to.

I thank all the hon. Members who spoke. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North (Craig Williams) highlighted the role of Made in Cardiff TV and of S4C, which is based in his constituency. The hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) reflected on a range of issues, including papurau bro. The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams), who is not in his place at the moment, highlighted the relevance of local media, and the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) talked about radio broadcasts and the impact of what has been happening in north-east Wales in particular. The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) left me with a list of questions that I will do my best to answer as the debate develops.

It was also a pleasure to hear contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) and for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart), who is looking forward to the move of S4C from Cardiff North to his constituency—no doubt he will be not only an existing champion, but a future champion of the interests of the channel.

In Wales, as in the rest of the United Kingdom, the public’s ability to access a wide range of news, views and information about the world, nation or region in which they live is central to the health of democracy and society. My hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy talked about the changing political nature of Wales, and devolution rightly underlines the need for distinct and robust media outlets to contribute to the effective scrutiny of decisions made by tiers of government at all levels—it is essential to have accountability; a word he rightly used for testing policy and holding decision makers to account.

I recognise the specific challenges for media plurality in Wales outlined by hon. Members, in particular where the Welsh language is involved, and I will return to some of those points. Some issues were highlighted in Ofcom’s report on the future of public service broadcasting published in July, in particular our heavy reliance on BBC and S4C output for news and information about Wales. That point was also made by my hon. Friend.

I also recognise the importance of the Welsh context. Our topography has always presented challenges for terrestrial television coverage—for example, on commercial digital terrestrial television multiplexes—as well as for FM and DAB coverage. There has always been a battle over access to the broadcasting spectrum in Wales, which has arguably been characterised by fewer local commercial radio stations. Lower broadband take-up is another challenge because of the topography, although we are making excellent progress in closing the gap, but that has contributed to higher take-up of satellite TV than in other parts of the United Kingdom.

The debate has focused significantly on S4C. The channel has helped Wales to create one of the most dynamic examples of a creative industry cluster in the UK and beyond. In that context, it was a privilege to host a meeting at the Wales Office between key independent programme makers and companies and Teledwyr Annibynnol Cymru, the independent representative body, with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport only a couple of weeks ago. It was an opportunity for the independents to highlight their priorities for the Secretary of State and for him better to understand the needs of the sector in Wales.

Many of the companies involved are international in their outlook and operations. Their form rightly evolves and responds to the ever-changing marketplace. They have attracted private equity interest and takeovers, demonstrating the constant evolution and interest maintained in the industry from the perspective not only of viewers, but of the investments that result in a successful industry.

The success of Welsh television production has led to internationally recognised awards that have opened up significant export markets. Welsh-made television shows and formats are now sold worldwide. We have even had a Welsh hill farmer presenting on a French television programme—Gareth Wyn Jones, a farmer from Conwy, who originally starred in “The Hill Farm”, a show that has won an award from the British Academy of Film and Television Arts. He was asked to front a travel show on Wales for a major French television channel. That demonstrates diversity, which was one of the points made by the hon. Member for Arfon.

As well as a scene of dynamic independents, Wales has become a hub of creativity and a desirable place to make programmes, and I need only mention a few: the BBC 1 drama series “The Indian Doctor”, which has been sold to the US, China, Estonia, Mexico and Israel; “Dr Who”, for which Wales is the production centre and which is an iconic success of British television that has aired in more than 200 countries and been dubbed into many languages; S4C’s “Fferm Ffactor”, which is now licensed and produced in Denmark, Sweden and China; “Hinterland”, which was filmed in both Welsh and English, highlighting innovation and significant economies of scale from co-operating with the BBC and creating interest overseas from other independents; and children’s programmes shown on CBBC, with BAFTA-winning spin-off apps demonstrating the divergence between modern and traditional broadcasting technology.

Wales is home to more than 50 television and animation companies, which collectively generate around £1 billion a year for the Welsh economy. That all contributes greatly to employment in Wales, and last year 51,000 people were employed in the creative industries—a 10.5% increase since 2011—and 80,000 in the wider creative economy.

We have not given too much attention to plurality in radio in our debate, but it is relevant to the issues that were raised. I am pleased that the BBC is extending its national DAB coverage with 22 new transmitters across Wales by the end of 2015. Furthermore, with the BBC and commercial radio, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport is investing up to £7.75 million to extend local DAB to match local commercial FM coverage. That will support further plurality in broadcasting in Wales, for which the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central called. I hope that that will be welcomed in all parts of the House.

The benefits will be more choice of digital radio services for Welsh listeners and substantial improvements in BBC radio and BBC Radio Cymru digital coverage. Equally importantly, that offers opportunities for local and regional commercial radio services, which are popular throughout Wales and which play an important part in the plurality of news services—an important point highlighted by the hon. Member for Clwyd South. The new technology will provide more opportunities to fill the gaps, where they exist. I recognise, however, that more needs to be done further to enhance digital radio coverage in Wales—something we highlighted in the BBC Green Paper.

As hon. Members have mentioned, Wales does not have as strong a print media sector as Scotland or Northern Ireland. Ofcom, in its recent assessment of public service broadcasting across the UK, highlighted the fact that most daily newspaper readers read newspapers that include little content related specifically to Wales and the National Assembly for Wales—something that was underlined by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy. While the print circulation of dailies in Wales continues to decline, along with the circulation of dailies throughout the United Kingdom, online services go from strength to strength. There has been little coverage of that in the debate so far.

Media Wales is one example, with its Wales Online brand doubling its audience last year, according to the latest ABC—Audit Bureau of Circulations—figures. North and south Wales are specifically targeted by Media Wales through the Western Mail and the Daily Post brand. It is also worth highlighting, however, the fact that Wales’s highest-selling daily newspaper, the South Wales Evening Post, based in Swansea, has also shown a strong performance online.

Other regional groups are important. The Tindle group has an exceptionally strong presence in my constituency, with the Glamorgan GEM series, but also in Monmouth, Pembrokeshire and elsewhere. Newsquest has the Barry & District News and the Penarth Times in my constituency, and the South Wales Argus in south-east Wales, as well as publications elsewhere. Similarly, its focus has shifted to its online output, on top of the weekly sales or distribution of its papers.

[Glyn Davies]

I thank the Minister for giving me the chance to mention the County Times in Montgomeryshire —probably the only newspaper sold in Wales that has not yet had a mention today. My constituency is close to Shropshire, so it is also worth mentioning the Shropshire Star, a hugely important newspaper in Wales. These media, including internet companies in Welshpool and Newtown, are growing incredibly rapidly and having significant influence. A whole range of providers in eastern Wales might not have featured in the debate until I intervened.

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend has a strong reputation for carrying the front page—and not only of the County Times, in which he regularly features; I remember him even making the front page of the Daily Star, which certainly brought his name to the attention of many, particularly in Wales. He rightly champions the County Times and I know the interest he shows in it, but mid-Wales is an area with a gap in local radio coverage. That is recognised and ties in with the point made by the hon. Member for Clwyd South.

[Guto Bebb]

I want to focus again on online content. It is important to recognise that the media in Wales, whether south or north, such as the BBC and Golwg 360, is doing a great job in providing content on the internet. However, having spoken to some such organisations, my concern is about their ability to generate an income from online activities; that income is not growing as fast as the decline in income from trade sales. Great work is being done, but that online provision will soon be lost unless that gap can be plugged quickly.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The online market is still new and different newspapers are seeking different approaches to capitalise on the readership they are generating to try to create an income. We all know that News UK’s online news is a paid-for service, which is different from what some of the other UK national newspapers are pursuing. The market will mature in time, but he rightly makes the point about the switch from selling daily newspapers to media online. I do not think that they are mutually exclusive; they are complementary, but a model needs to be developed to suit their individual communities.

Much attention has been given to UK national newspapers and their lack of coverage of Wales. However, there have been some positive steps. I mentioned News UK, and we need to recognise that The Sun on Sunday and The Sunday Times now have Welsh editions. That is at an early stage and it is a limited adjustment compared with different newspapers, but it is a welcome, positive step. When Wales beats England in the rugby, it will be a Welsh rugby player on the front page celebrating rather than what might be on the front of the English version: commiserations for an English rugby player disappointed at Welsh success.

On a more serious note, the news emphasis is changing. We need to pay tribute to and welcome News UK’s intervention and hope that other newspapers will follow that model and that the readership will increase as a result of reflecting the needs and demands of Wales as a wider community.

In addition, local and hyper-local media projects are of growing importance and have helped plurality in Wales. They are supported by the destination local project, which is supported by Nesta and other partners. In one such project, the papur bro—community newspaper—in Caernarvon is working with television company Cwmni Da and further education college Coleg Menai to create a Welsh-language mobile and digital service to provide hyper-local news and information to the community; the hon. Member for Arfon touched on that briefly.

As we draw to the debate’s close, I want to say a few words about the Government’s overall approach to media plurality.

[Susan Elan Jones]

The Minister referred to papurau bro—community newspapers. Does he recognise that one of the great features of those hyper-local news outlets is that in many cases they have existed for a very long time? I think of the Nene, the papur bro in Rhosllanerchrugog. What they provide is absolutely unique and, in many cases, that has been one of the reasons for encouraging the Welsh language in many communities across Wales.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Lady makes an extremely important point. Any innovation and new technology that can be brought to the papurau bro to allow them to maintain their audiences and reach new ones over time is to be encouraged. It is good to see broadcasting companies such as Cwmni Da working with the papurau bro to try to bring about new technology and allow their economies of scale to be used.

In terms of the overall approach to media plurality, the Government have two roles to play. The first is to see that public service broadcasting is in good shape in the nations and regions. The second is to ensure that all parts of the UK continue to be served by an effective range of services that represent a range of media voices, including the Welsh language in Wales.

On television, public service broadcasting in Wales is in pretty good shape. ITV Wales was separated from the Wales and west regional licence in January 2014, which means that Wales has its own commercial, English-language PSB channel. In addition, local news requirements for ITV licences were strengthened, and I pay tribute to ITV Wales for how it has responded and for what it achieves with more limited resources than other public service broadcasters. It offers a genuinely high quality service, which creates much better choice for viewers who can decide which options to pursue.

We have also ensured that S4C continues to make its contribution to Welsh cultural life and to the diversity and variety of TV content across the UK, as many have mentioned, including the hon. Member for Arfon. It is easy to take S4C for granted and not recognise that it is pretty unique—not just in the UK, but in Europe. We should also recognise that the previous comprehensive spending review protected S4C’s financial position.

It would be premature of me to respond to questions on how the current CSR will affect the channel. Discussions are ongoing, but our commitment to Welsh-language programming and the future of S4C stands. That is relevant to the BBC’s charter renewal, which is also ongoing and includes the relationship between the BBC and S4C as well as the BBC’s role in the nations.

Some have expressed concern about the reduction in English-language output in Wales, which I am pleased to see the BBC is looking at, as highlighted in the evidence it has presented for the charter renewal. It has said that it wants to protect the interests of the nations of the UK in charter renewal and I trust that that extends to S4C. We would encourage that.

We have said many times that we will safeguard S4C’s editorial and operational independence. The call for a review, made by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy, will certainly be taken into account. It is interesting and will be considered as part of the BBC’s charter renewal process. He is a steadfast champion of S4C and hosted a similar debate on this subject five years ago. Its outcome led to the current settlement. Many at the time doubted or criticised that outcome, so it is ironic that the same people are now calling for the current position to be maintained. The reality is that we gave a manifesto pledge to secure its future and we will always respect S4C’s editorial and operational independence. That was promised five years ago and has been delivered since then. His call for a review of S4C is interesting and something that we will look at in the context of the BBC’s charter renewal and the CSR.

It is worth highlighting the other side of broadcast media as raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North: the emergence of local TV services in Cardiff, which have been on air for nearly 12 months. Services in Mold and Swansea are due to launch shortly, which will give more choice in new and local programming. It is early days for those services, but we hope that they will be able to grow audiences and that, with their clear remits for local news and information, they will help to strengthen local democracy and accountability by giving attention to local issues.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is working closely with Ofcom to support Mold’s application to extend services to Wrexham, which I know a number of Welsh Members on both sides have raised with the Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy, my hon. Friend the Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey).

With only 10 stations, however, Wales does not appear to have embraced community radio in the same way as Scotland has, with its 26 stations. Community radio is especially important for rural areas that are under-served by radio as a whole. Stations such as Tudno FM in Llandudno, MônFM in Anglesey and Radio Glan Clwyd in Bodelwyddan are well established. They provide a fantastic and valuable resource for their communities, broadening the choice of services, and are examples that can be built on to deal with some of the gaps elsewhere in Wales that I have highlighted. But there are no community stations in mid or west Wales. I want to look at that with DCMS and Ofcom as part of the planning for the next round of community radio licensing. The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy mentioned that when he responded to the debate on community radio held on 8 September, which was led by my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Amanda Milling).

The Government’s second responsibility is for the media market, and has two important aspects: first, to ensure that we have workable rules on media ownership and secondly, to ensure that we have a robust and objective framework for measuring media plurality. On the first aspect, Ofcom reviews the media ownership rules every three years. It will report to the Culture Secretary on its latest review in November, and the Government will consider its findings carefully before deciding whether action is required.

As for the second aspect, in July 2013 the Government carried out a consultation on what the scope of the measurement framework for media plurality should be. From a range of options, we concluded that online media should be included, for some of the reasons that have been highlighted in the debate. We also concluded that news and current affairs are the type and content of media most relevant to media plurality, a point many hon. Members have underlined today.

The scope of the framework should include all organisations that impact on news and current affairs services, including organisations that generate, gather and aggregate news, services that could affect discoverability and accessibility—online news services, for example—and professional and non-professional commentary such as blogs and social media. We also concluded that the BBC should be included within the review. The framework must deliver indicators capable of illustrating the situation at UK level and in each of the nations of the UK, and should examine issues at a regional and local level in some areas. However, full examination of every local area is not anticipated. Following the consultation, in September 2014 we commissioned Ofcom to develop a measurement framework for media plurality. That work is ongoing.

In the couple of minutes remaining, I will return to the issue of the BBC’s dominance in broadcasting in Wales. We are all familiar with the fact that the BBC has responsibility for 10 hours of broadcasting for S4C. The content of that 10 hours is not stipulated and it is of course for the S4C executive to negotiate and decide what those 10 hours should consist of—it need not necessarily be news content. I am interested to hear about any discussions that have taken place between the two organisations because, as the Ofcom report highlights and as many contributions from across the Chamber have championed, diversity and plurality in news outlets are exceptionally important.

We have highlighted local, ultra-local, regional and national newspapers as well as online coverage and the commercial output from ITV Wales, but we need to recognise the BBC’s unique role. It can provide greater opportunities for other organisations—competitors, as it were—to develop in the market, which would be welcome. It is for S4C to decide where it will commission its news from. There was an interesting debate on that matter some six or more years ago, and my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy raised it in his championing of the channel. He has always been a champion of S4C, as have many other Members here.

I thank you for chairing our debate, Mr Chope. I also thank hon. Members for their contributions to a discussion that has been a very effective contribution to the charter renewal discussions and the comprehensive spending review negotiations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I too congratulate Labour Front Benchers on their appointments.

My hon. Friend raises an important issue. Greater mobility means reputable, recognisable and comparable qualifications are more important than ever. The CBI has said that employers believe that qualifications across the UK need to be directly comparable.

[David T. C. Davies]

Is the Minister aware that if one puts the words “Wales”, “Labour”, “Education Minister” and “apology” into Google, one can read an admission from that Education Minister that Welsh Labour’s education policies have been an absolute failure? Does he agree that if we are serious about raising educational standards in Wales, we need only wait until the May Welsh Assembly elections, when instead of ditching the curriculum we can ditch the Labour Welsh Assembly Government?

[Alun Cairns]

In the first instance, we need to recognise the success of pupils who passed their A-levels and GCSEs in the summer. However, there is a worrying gap between the trends in Wales and England. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education has said, the results speak for themselves. With free schools, academies and other reforms in England, 1 million more children are in good or outstanding schools here—sadly, those reforms have not been made in Wales.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

One great success story in Wales is the growth of Welsh medium schools and the emphasis on language learning in the Welsh curriculum. We have put paid to the nonsense that people in this country have to be monolingual. How will the Minister share that success right across the nations of the UK?

[Alun Cairns]

There has been great success in encouraging people to learn Welsh in Wales. Of course, that should not come at the cost of any other language. It is important that we champion that success: bilingual education can work and does work. We will encourage as many people as possible to learn not only Welsh, but modern foreign languages in Wales and across the UK.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I know that the Minister, who has a coterminous boundary with me, will want to congratulate the pupils and teachers in schools in his constituency and mine who this year produced record summer results for A-level students and an improved performance at A* to C in GCSEs in English language, Welsh, maths and science. Rather than talk them down, will he congratulate those students and schools?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman either ignored the answer I gave earlier or prepared his script before he came to Question Time. I did congratulate the students who succeeded. My point was that we need more students in Wales to succeed because there is a worrying gap between the success in England and the success in Wales.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of recent trends in the level of tourism in Wales.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

4. What assessment he has made of recent trends in the level of tourism in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

It is 12 months since the NATO summit showcased Wales to the world, and the Welsh tourism industry continues to boom. It is an essential part of the Welsh economy, attracting investment, jobs and record numbers of visitors to Wales. International visitors spent £368 million visiting Wales last year.

[Bob Blackman]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the start of the rugby world cup gives Wales the opportunity to put itself on the front foot for business and tourism? Will he join me in wishing Wales every success in the world cup, until they play England?

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend has a point. International events play a significant role in attracting visitors, while promoting Wales and the UK to the world. The rugby world cup not only means that Wales will lift the Webb Ellis trophy; it gives us a great opportunity to sing the Welsh national anthem and the UK national anthem together.

[Jason McCartney]

As a member of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, I welcome the fact that last year’s NATO summit took place in Newport, Wales. Will the Minister ensure that Wales can build on that wonderful showcase for its heritage and food and drink industry?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for reminding us of the importance of the NATO summit that the last Government took to Wales. That not only allowed us to promote Wales around the globe, but was an important step towards the commitment that 2% of GDP would be spent on defence.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

10. Given all the Government schemes to encourage tourism in Wales, does the Minister think it is fair that people who want to visit Wales are thumped with a toll of £6.50 on the Severn bridge? What will he do to stop that tax on tourism?

[Alun Cairns]

I am aware of the hon. Gentleman’s interest in the Severn toll, as well as that of many Members from all parties across the House. The law has been in place for decades, but the concession will end in 2017 or 2018, depending on traffic volumes. That gives us the opportunity to bring innovations to the crossing, and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has already made significant moves in this area.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

Welcome though the trend of increasing visitor numbers is, I know that the Minister is not one to rest on his laurels. With that in mind, what discussions has he had about reducing VAT on tourism, which would boost many local economies throughout the country?

[Alun Cairns]

That seems to be a perennial question from Members. VAT is a matter for the Chancellor, who always keeps such matters under review, and there are currently no plans to change VAT on the tourism sector. There are great things in Wales that we can champion to encourage more tourists to Wales. The Countryside is GREAT campaign is promoted by VisitBritain and provides an excellent opportunity for that, and I look forward to the UK tourism Minister visiting Cardiff shortly to discuss the great opportunities that it offers.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

Confidence in the tourism sector in my constituency is riding high, as illustrated by the £5 million refurbishment of the Llandudno Bay hotel. Does my hon. Friend agree that the only threat to confidence in that sector in Wales is the anti-business rhetoric of the Labour party?

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, and his constituency depends significantly on income from the tourism sector. He rightly highlights the fact that every tourism business is a business, and the changes that we have made to make this a more entrepreneurial, innovative and growth-driven economy not only help every business but have particular relevance to the tourism sector.

[Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)]

Next month Blaenavon world heritage site in my constituency will host the UNESCO world heritage youth summit. Will the Minister congratulate Blaenavon on that, and agree how important it is that we showcase our world heritage sites in Wales to the world?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing the House’s attention to that issue. The summit is important and I congratulate Blaenavon and wish the community well. I remember UNESCO awarding world heritage status to Blaenavon. The Welsh Government did a good job promoting the area, and the UK Government have a part to play in developing that further.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans), tourists arriving in Wales this weekend for the rugby world cup will face paying the highest toll in the UK on the Severn bridges—something that Welsh commuters and businesses face every day when they travel over those bridges. Will the Minister commit to make it a personal priority to press for a significant reduction in the toll once the concession ends, beyond the VAT reduction, and fight hard for that in government?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Lady regularly raises that issue, and the Government appreciate its importance. We have already committed to reducing VAT when the concession ends, and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has gone even further because small businesses with light vans will pay the same price as cars, reducing the rate from more than £13 to closer to £5. The end of the concession provides us with an opportunity to do more, and that debate and discussion is ongoing.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is an understandable air of anticipation in the Chamber at this time, which is reflected in a large number of rather noisy private conversations. Let us have a bit of order for the new parliamentary leader of Plaid Cymru.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

7. What recent discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues on the provision of civil service jobs in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues on a range of issues, including civil service jobs in Wales. I appreciate that the civil service, as a major employer in Wales, contributes significantly to the Welsh economy.

[Paul Flynn]

With 30 years of whinging and whining from job gluttons, mostly from London, set against the huge success of the relocation of civil service jobs in Wales, when will we hear a strong clarion call from Welsh Ministers to defend jobs in the broad acres of Wales and away from polluted, overcrowded and congested London?

[Alun Cairns]

I think the hon. Gentleman is referring to reports about the Office for National Statistics. Sir Charlie Bean’s review is a wide-ranging report, independent of Government, into how to address future challenges to the measurement and production of economic statistics. He referred specifically to the support given by the Wales Office. I am sure that my predecessors would like me to highlight that the number of civil servants employed across the UK has fallen by 17% but in Wales by only 13%. That is a credit to my predecessors.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is talking about shifting jobs from Wrexham in north Wales to Cardiff. Will the Minister meet me to ensure that north Wales has civil service jobs and that the Tories in Wales do not sell north Wales down the river again?

[Alun Cairns]

I do not accept the premise of the question. The Government’s commitment to north Wales is significant. We are looking at the improvement of the railway line across north Wales, and the hon. Gentleman will be more than aware of the impact that the prison will have in north Wales. Of course we want to ensure that all the jobs are as efficient as possible. I will happily write to the hon. Gentleman on the detail of the point that he has brought to the attention of the House.

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

What discussions has the Minister had with the people in the civil service who are responsible for the provision of library services about the appalling decision to remove an exhibition about Israeli and Palestinian people playing football together? Does he think that the decision to remove the exhibition will bring people together and further knowledge, which is what libraries are supposed to be about?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, referring to a disgraceful decision and act by Cardiff city council ahead of a visit from Israel to Cardiff. I hope that the leaders of his party on Cardiff city council will hear and take note of his comments.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

The northern powerhouse is a fantastic opportunity for north Wales. My hon. Friend will appreciate that there is significant economic and business value in strengthening links in the region.

[Mr Jones]

Will my hon. Friend say whether Welsh Ministers are engaging positively with the United Kingdom Government in pursuing the northern powerhouse agenda, or are they maintaining their customary position that nothing that happens in Cheshire is of any interest to the people of Flintshire?

[Alun Cairns]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. I must admit that I was disappointed with the Welsh Government’s attitude to the northern powerhouse, highlighting what they said was lowly aspiration and offering only trickle-down benefits to north Wales. The reality is that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s plans for the northern powerhouse are about building a strong economy and a strong United Kingdom.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

North Wales suffers from some of the poorest mobile phone coverage across the United Kingdom. If we want to have a powerhouse in north Wales and the north of England, will the Government intervene to ensure universal coverage in north Wales and make it the digital centre of the United Kingdom?

[Alun Cairns]

My right hon. Friend the Business Secretary, when he was Secretary of State for the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, brought together a groundbreaking arrangement between mobile operators, in addition to the Telefónica deal, with the auction for the 4G communication network, that will deliver at least 95% coverage for the whole of Wales and 98% across the rest of the UK. That is in contrast to the 3G deal that was offered by the previous Labour Government, which led to less than 90% coverage across Wales.

The Prime Minister was asked—

Cardiff City Deal

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Monday 6th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North (Craig Williams) on securing the debate and, more importantly, pay tribute to him for the way in which he has pressed the case for Cardiff this evening and championed the opportunity that the city deal offers. He is a true champion for Cardiff and has pressed the case for the city deal for a long time now, and for the benefit of not only his constituency, but the wider region.

My hon. Friend truly sees the regional impact that a city deal can have. As he has said, the city deal is a transformational opportunity for Cardiff and the capital region. It has the potential to create jobs, improve living standards, drive growth and improve the quality of life for all across a wide area. It forms part of the Government’s plan to drive productivity.

I should also underline that we start from a good base. As has been highlighted across the House, Cardiff is a great place to live and work. It was recently named the best city in the UK in which to live, with low unemployment, growing disposable income and relatively low living costs. Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan has the highest GVA—gross value added—per head in Wales, and Wales is the fastest growing part of the United Kingdom. Unemployment is lower than in neighbouring large cities such as Bristol, Manchester, Birmingham and Liverpool. Cardiff has a fantastic cultural heritage. Many of its successes have already been highlighted by my hon. Friend. The UK film incentives have played a major role in attracting new investment by film makers, independent television companies and the BBC.

Cardiff has also built a strong reputation for hosting major international events, such as the six nations, the FA cup and test match cricket. I was pleased to celebrate the confirmation last week that the champions league final will be played in the city in 2017, and in the same summer as the International Cricket Council’s champions trophy. That demonstrates the great breadth that Cardiff and the city region has to offer. We then need to add the Ryder cup and the NATO summit held only a short distance away in Newport. These events show that the Cardiff capital region packs a great punch. A city deal offers a great opportunity to build on these successes.

A city deal must be ambitious and innovative. It should not be focused on capital inputs, finance or parochial interests; a city deal is so much more. I am pleased that the cross-party support for the city deal announced by the Chancellor in last year’s Budget is gathering momentum. The Government have already concluded 28 city deals in 27 cities. It started with eight deals in the largest cities outside London. It is estimated that the eight core deals will create 175,000 jobs and 37,000 apprenticeships.

There are great examples of successful projects. My hon. Friend mentioned the city deal in Ipswich. In Nottingham the local authority used the city deal to accelerate the growth of business in its creative quarter. The “Inspired in Nottingham” programme matched 185 students with business mentors, and 122 of them developed a prototype or began trading, and at least five of them now run businesses with six-figure turnovers. Newcastle and Gateshead established an accelerated development zone that has created over 1,450 jobs so far and used tax increment financing powers to speed up development. Preston, South Ribble and Lancashire city deal established an infrastructure delivery programme and investment fund, and it plans to build a distributor road to the motorway, which will also accommodate 4,000 new homes. These are just some examples of the variety of opportunities that a city deal can offer.

The Cardiff city deal, however, should not be limited or governed by those examples. I hope that the private sector and relevant authorities will consider the best of the deals so far and use them as their starting point. The Cardiff vision needs to be bold and strong, independent and dynamic. It must not be constrained by demands for cash. The successes I have listed have been based on innovative solutions in areas such as skills through making the right connections with educational institutions, job centres and apprenticeship providers with a number of infrastructure projects. At the heart of a successful strategy is the power of local partnership working that gets behind what works and positions business-led solutions.

A short time ago, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales met local authority leaders and highlighted the four-pillar approach that my hon. Friend mentioned, which has a role for local authorities and for the private sector, including higher education and further education. Such startling universities as Cardiff University, which is part of the Russell Group, Cardiff Metropolitan University, which is the most successful post-1992 university, and the University of South Wales, which is attached to Cardiff and Vale College, have major parts to play, along with the Welsh Government and the UK Government through the investments that have been made in rail infrastructure and the business-competitive environment that has allowed the Welsh Government and UKTI to attract investment.

[Stephen Doughty]

The Minister mentioned rail infrastructure. We all welcome the electrification of the great western main line, but does he agree that we also need new station capacity, particularly to the east of Cardiff in some of the more deprived areas, to ensure that people can access the jobs and opportunities that might be developed through a city deal?

[Alun Cairns]

It is up to the authorities involved—the Welsh Government and all those who play a part—to come forward with those sorts of bids. That demonstrates the innovative thinking that is needed. The best thing about the city deal is the bottom-up approach. It is about what the business community and civic leaders demand and see as their opportunities rather than a top-down Government approach saying, “This is what you must have.” That is the strength and the benefit of the programme.

The four-pillar approach demonstrates that all can focus their attention on outcomes. All must work hand in glove, with the needs and demands of the business community—the wealth creators—central to the plan. In April, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government visited Cardiff to meet business leaders. When he was questioned about the role of the private sector in the city deal, he underlined the central role that the business community must play and the fact that all organisations must have bought into the plan for the Government to respond positively. We are keen to work with all partners to help to secure the city deal.

It is important to underline the need for joint working between local authorities themselves. Obviously Cardiff’s is central to the city deal, but I was pleased to hear my hon. Friend share comments from the leaders of authorities such as Blaenau Gwent and Monmouthshire. These authorities are a little further away than many from the centre of Cardiff but see the potential that the city deal offers their areas. That demonstrates that all authorities should play a part and that this is genuinely benefiting the region. I hope that some of the authorities that have not yet have been so engaged can take the lead from places like Blaenau Gwent and Monmouthshire.

This is not about competition with the next authority; it is about creating a larger cake in which we can all share. The fact that authority areas in Wales are smaller means that people may live in one but work in another. Everyone can benefit with the right sort of plan. The Welsh Government have proposed local authority changes in recent weeks. These are naturally likely to raise issues between councils, but I do not want those to detract or distract from the opportunity of the city deal. The timescales are tough, but we should not be governed by timescale. This demonstrates the willingness of the Government to work with the authorities and to be ambitious not only in the plans themselves but in terms of timescale. We want this to happen, but the lead must come from the community.

There has never been a better time to invest, innovate or prosper. Wales is coming back. When the capital city region succeeds the whole of south Wales benefits directly, with a knock-on effect to all parts. It is important that all local authorities, the Welsh Government and business communities across the capital region seize that opportunity. Cardiff has a first-class reputation, a brand that is recognised and a strong private sector. We must use the city deal to bind them all together.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Wednesday 17th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Byron Davies (Gower) (Con)]

2. What assessment he has made of the effects in Wales of the Government’s long-term economic plan.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

The Government’s long-term economic plan is clearly working for the Welsh economy. The UK is the fastest growing nation of the G7, and Wales is the fastest growing part of the UK. Our long-term economic plan has achieved some of the highest levels of employment in our history.

[Byron Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. Having hauled my constituency out of the hands of Labour dominance after 109 years, I wonder whether my hon. Friend agrees that the general election result demonstrated clearly what we knew all along, which is that the Labour party, together with its failing chums in Cardiff Bay, was consistently on the wrong side of the economic argument.

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. His success in Gower was one of the most remarkable across the United Kingdom. His presence here is testament to the economic success of the Conservative Government. To his credit, he has played a significant part in lobbying the Government on major infrastructure projects that will benefit his constituency, such as electrification of the Great Western main line all the way to Swansea.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

Cutting the Severn bridge toll should be an integral part of any plan for the Welsh economy, because we have the highest tolls in the UK, and they hit bridge users in south Wales particularly hard. Yes, VAT will come off the toll in 2018, but that is not nearly enough. Can the Minister confirm that he will be lobbying the Secretary of State for Transport extremely hard so that we get a much fairer deal for Severn bridge users?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Lady has raised that matter on several occasions. I am sure that she was pleased to hear the Chancellor announce that VAT will no longer apply, but she is right that we need to go further. We are abolishing category 2 so that white vans and pink minibuses will pay the same price as a light vehicle, unlike the way it was left by the Labour party.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

I very much welcome any rise in employment in Wales, but more than half of all households with children in Wales, many of which include people working in low-income jobs, rely on tax credits to make ends meet. What reassurance can the Minister give to those Welsh families that his Government’s long-term economic plan does not include cutting their child tax credits?

[Alun Cairns]

The Government’s long-term economic plan is taking people out of poverty and bringing them into work. The hon. Lady should welcome the unemployment data that were announced today, which show that more than 100,000 private sector jobs have been created in the Welsh economy. Unemployment is falling and investment is growing. I hope that the hon. Lady will welcome that.

[Nia Griffith]

Indeed, I did welcome that. Yet again, there were no real answers from the hon. Gentleman; perhaps he is practising to be Prime Minister. Families across Wales who are going out to work and doing their best for their children will be very worried by that answer. If he cannot give full reassurance that his Government will protect tax credits, will he at least speak up and try to stop his fellow Ministers giving a kick in the teeth to working families while passing laws to protect millionaires from tax rises?

[Alun Cairns]

I am surprised that the Labour party is still pursuing the wrong priorities. It is on the wrong side of public opinion. The public rightly demand that we reform welfare and incentivise people to work. That policy worked over the past five years and I hope that she will welcome its continuation over the next five years.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

3. What recent discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the level of funding received by the Welsh Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

4. How the views of English rail passengers will be taken into account after the transfer of responsibility for the Borderlands Line rail franchise to the Welsh Government.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

I have met the Under-Secretary of State for Transport to discuss aspirations to upgrade north Wales’ rail infrastructure. On the franchise, the Wales Office is working closely with the Department for Transport and the Welsh Government to agree which services will be devolved. Specific proposals will be consulted on in due course and I hope the hon. Gentleman will play his part.

[Justin Madders]

I thank the Minister for that answer. He has highlighted the difficulties in implementing some of the practicalities of devolution. Will he meet me and interested bodies from both sides of the border to discuss the practicalities, and how my constituents can be best represented during this process?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that question; he makes an important point. Rail passengers just want smooth services on both sides of the border. Administrative boundaries should be there to support rather than to hinder. I look forward to the hon. Gentleman’s involvement in any discussions.

[Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab)]

Many Welsh passengers use railway lines, such as the Great Western line, that are under the control of the UK Government. They are concerned about suggestions that the Government are going to break up and privatise parts of Network Rail. Will the Minister rule that out?

[Alun Cairns]

That is, of course, a matter for the Department for Transport, but I will take no lessons from the Labour party on electrification. When the Labour party was in government it left Wales languishing with Moldova and Albania as one of only three nations in Europe without a single track of electrified railway. Some £1.5 billion has been invested in the electrification of the main line right the way through to Swansea. I would hope that the hon. Lady welcomed that.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The new franchise offers a golden opportunity for extra routes connecting north Wales with England and the Republic of Ireland. Does the Minister agree that it is important that we look at the new European structural funds, so that we can have trans-European networks going from Dublin to London, via north Wales?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes a constructive point. There is a need to develop a project board in north Wales that brings in the Welsh Government, potential European funding and Department for Transport support to develop the best possible, strongest case.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

6. What plans he has for the future of air police services in the Dyfed Powys area; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

The National Police Air Service plays an important role in keeping the people of England and Wales safe. Operational capability decisions regarding the provision of police air support remain the responsibility of the strategic board.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Maps produced by NPAS show that about half of the Dyfed Powys police force area will fall within 30 minutes’ flying time from a helicopter base, despite NPAS wanting to reach 90% of the population of Wales and England within 20 minutes. Is the Minister content with this extension of response times and with the fact that parts of Dyfed Powys will still not be reachable even within the extended 30-minute timescale?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman has a strong record in scrutinising such changes—the Westminster Hall debate just last week was testimony to that—but I also pay tribute to the police and crime commissioner, who is seeking to improve cover and save money at the same time. Any money saved, of course, will create an opportunity to support more officers on the beat.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Anyone looking at the proposed NPAS division will come to the conclusion that the residents of Dyfed Powys will receive a second-class service compared with the dedicated police helicopter service currently enjoyed. Considering that the commissioner is powerless to act, will the Minister join me in calling on the Home Office to hold an urgent review of the situation in Wales, and Dyfed Powys in particular, as it is doing in the north-east of England?

[Alun Cairns]

I encourage the hon. Gentleman to meet the police and crime commissioner, who has said he is more than happy to meet him to discuss such issues. There is an opportunity, however, not only to save money but to improve cover. At the moment, the station he talks about operates limited hours, whereas the NPAS proposals would operate 24-hour cover and also provide access to more helicopters and added resilience.

[Mr Speaker]

To ask about Dyfed Powys, rather than Lichfield, I call Mr Fabricant.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

My hon. Friend will know how rural an area Wales is, and the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) is absolutely right to raise this point, but what consideration has the Minister given to combining the Wales police force covering the hon. Gentleman’s constituency with north Wales police in order to provide a better service?

[Alun Cairns]

There are no proposals to merge the police forces, but co-operation between them is one way of saving money and operating a much better service. [Interruption.] The reorganisation of the helicopter service under NPAS provides the opportunity for 24-hour cover, which will be much better, as we all know that offenders do not restrict their activities to daylight hours. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I understand the House is in a state of high excitement and anticipation of Prime Minister’s questions, but I am sure that the people of Wales would expect us to treat their concerns seriously. Let us have a bit of order for Mr Hywel Williams.

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

8. What steps he is taking to promote engineering as a career in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

Engineers have highly adaptable skills that are valuable across the whole economy. Thanks to the priority that the Government have given to nationally significant infrastructure, there has never been a better time to work or train as an engineer in Wales, or, indeed, throughout the United Kingdom.

[Neil Carmichael]

I am delighted to note that Renishaw is developing excellent industrial links with Wales, but does the Minister agree that we need more science, technology, engineering and maths and more STEM pupils in the pipeline, so that we can make a proper effort to generate more careers in engineering?

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Renishaw, which is in his constituency, is doing exceptionally well in Wales, including, I should add, in my constituency. It is providing the higher engineering skills and investment that we are seeing across the United Kingdom and beyond.

My hon. Friend makes an important point about STEM subjects. He will welcome the establishment of the STEMNET UK-wide network of volunteer ambassadors to support STEM careers. Additional funding of £6.3 million has been provided to support the network.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Wales’s output per head amounts to 70% of the United Kingdom average, which explains why we have the lowest wages in Britain yet some of the largest cuts. What is the Minister doing to ensure that we have our fair share of investment in engineering, in order to boost productivity, boost wages, and boost family incomes for once?

[Alun Cairns]

I am surprised to hear that question from the hon. Gentleman. After all, it was his party that left Wales the poorest part of the United Kingdom. Since then, it has become the fastest-growing part of the United Kingdom, and the UK is the fastest-growing nation in the G7. He ought to welcome that, along with the fact that wages and gross domestic household income are growing faster in Wales than in any other part of the United Kingdom. However, we will further improve both productivity and wealth through significant infrastructure spending.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

9. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Transport on cross-border road links between Wales and England.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

I met the Department for Transport and Highways England last week to express my concern about the delays to the A483/A55 roadworks at the Posthouse roundabout. The Government have invested £6 million in that complex scheme, which will deliver significant benefits to road users on both sides of the border. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman supports such investment to improve passenger journeys, tackle congestion and clear the way for business investment in the cross-border region.

[Ian C. Lucas]

But the Government told me in February that the work would be completed by April, by the time of the general election. That has not happened, and the Wales Office did nothing before then to get this work done. Will the Minister assure me that it will completed by 28 June?

[Alun Cairns]

Although the hon. Gentleman called for an improvement in the network for many years, his party did nothing in government to bring that improvement about. It was only when my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced the scheme as part of the pinch point programme in 2011 that action was taken to improve the network. We are now working closely with the Department for Transport.

The hon. Gentleman must be the only Member who calls for roadworks and then complains when that construction is under way.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

10. What discussions he has had with the leaders of Newport, Cardiff and Bristol councils on the great western cities devolution proposal.

North Wales Economic Infrastructure

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Wednesday 25th March 2015 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I congratulate the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) on securing this debate. I echo the sympathies expressed by him and others towards those involved in the tragic accident in Europe yesterday.

This has been an excellent debate, which has demonstrated cross-party ambition, hope and optimism for north Wales and its people, public services and economic prosperity. By and large, as the shadow Minister mentioned, it has not been party political; I am pleased about that, because the issue is how to secure the right outcomes for north Wales.

The story of north Wales over the past five years has been quite remarkable. We all know that the UK has the fastest growing economy in the G7, and Wales is the fastest growing part of the United Kingdom. Since 2010—I hope that everyone will recognise this—gross value added growth for the UK has been 6.8%. In Wales, the figure is 8.4%, but it has been remarkably strong in north Wales, at 13.3%. That is a fantastic demonstration of the efforts of everyone in north Wales—the individuals, the private sector, the public sector and the entrepreneurs who are delivering growth have all achieved that quite remarkable figure of 13.3%.

[Chris Ruane]

Is the Minister including the Welsh Government in his list of people to congratulate?

[Alun Cairns]

Of course—I said the public sector. Everyone has played a part in delivering that 13.3% growth in north Wales. Of course, it needed a stable financial settlement and stable economic platform from which to build it. North Wales has prospered remarkably from those conditions.

The debate has focused on a range of issues, but without question there is absolute agreement among all Members on the interdependence of north Wales and the north of England in general and the north-west in particular. That is key to the area’s future prosperity. The hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside picked up on that idea at the outset and focused on the Mersey Dee Alliance. I pay tribute to that organisation; I have met its representatives in my role as Minister and have been hugely impressed with its case. I also pay tribute to the local authorities in north Wales, whichever party runs them; their relationship with the Wales Office is probably stronger than that of the local authorities in south Wales because of their co-ordinated activity and determination to forge a relationship with Whitehall.

Coleg Cambria has been mentioned, and my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) mentioned Glyndwr university. Those are both excellent examples of using the strength of the private sector in north-east Wales to deliver skills.

[Albert Owen]

And Coleg Menai!

[Alun Cairns]

Yes, Coleg Menai as well, although the particular focus was on Coleg Cambria and on Glyndwr university. The university has been through some difficult times over the past year or so. I pay tribute to Mike Scott for his role during that period. He has moved on now, but I recognise his efforts.

Several hon. Members mentioned rail, an issue to which I will return, along with broadband, housing, on which the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) reflected, and energy. The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) mentioned the importance of tourism, referring to Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrn- drobwllllantysiliogogogoch, a place famous not only for having the longest place name in Britain but for the founding of the Women’s Institute, an important reason to celebrate it. I will also return to mobile communication.

The common theme, on which I will focus, has been our relationship with Europe. Members have presented doubts and questions about the future of many companies and organisations, and so the continuing prosperity of north Wales, because of the commitment to a referendum on the UK’s future membership of the European Union.

I simply do not accept the Opposition’s arguments on that issue. The evidence is strong and pretty overwhelming. In February, the British Chambers of Commerce said:

“A new settlement for Britain in Europe is essential to achieving our economic ambitions—helping our businesses succeed here at home, and across the world.”

Inward investment to the UK is quite remarkable. According to the World Investment Report published by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, the UK is the No. 1 country for foreign direct investment stock in Europe and is second only to the United States in the world.

[Albert Owen]

I am sure it is not intentional, but the Minister has misunderstood our case. The case is for staying in the European Union. Businesses are telling me that they invested here—Hitachi is one example; its headquarters are here in the UK—because we are part of the European Union. There is a net benefit for us from being in the EU. We want that to continue and are proud to beat the drum for it.

[Alun Cairns]

That is a respectable point, but the argument was being made that businesses were not investing because of the EU question. The hon. Gentleman will be able to make his point in the campaign when we have the referendum in 2017, and then people will have the choice.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (James Duddridge)]

Let the people decide!

[Alun Cairns]

Absolutely, let the people decide. Industries and businesses invest for the long term and would not be investing now if, as the Opposition say, the position of the UK Government was undermining their future plans. That clearly is not the case. Britain is getting 50% more inward investment than either France or Germany, the next two biggest recipients of foreign direct investment. The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) specifically mentioned Airbus, but Tom Enders has said:

“Regardless of which decision the UK will make, we are strongly committed to our operations in the UK, which are key to the long-term future of our group.”

The evidence is quite clear, from statements from the chief executive of Airbus to the record amount of inward investment coming to north Wales. Putting doubt about the UK’s role in Europe in the minds of potential investors does not support the economic growth of the area.

[Mark Tami]

Does the Minister not accept that many companies, big and small, will not speak publicly about or get involved in politics—probably rightly—but will have concerns that they raise in private? My hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn has mentioned some of those concerns this morning. It is incredibly naive to dismiss this issue as if it is not a fear or a threat when it is. It is a serious problem that we have to address.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but even if I accepted it, quite obviously businesses would not be spending and investing sums of money if they had the doubts that the hon. Member for Ynys Môn has shared.

I am sorry that the time has gone in which I could have focused on rail investment. Important points have been made about the Halton curve, the Wrexham to Bidston line and the Deeside and Wirral Waters relationship, which was raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West. Those are really important issues. We must focus on the economic value released by railway investments rather than purely on passenger numbers or environmental benefits. Economic benefits are important, and I was delighted that my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) focused on releasing economic potential in the report to the Department for Transport by the North of England Electrification Task Force.

Welsh Affairs

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Thursday 5th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Llwyd]

I would argue yes, because we need to get away from this pattern of asymmetrical devolution, which is complicated, time-consuming and ends up in references to the Supreme Court and so on. I know the reserved powers model will assist there. Yes, I do believe that. The major problem—I say this quite sincerely—is that we are not hitting on a fair funding formula for the future. The right hon. Gentleman knows that we discussed that issue in Committee and that the Barnett floor is of assistance. He also knows, as I have said before, that it is not the be-all and end-all or the ultimate answer to fair funding for Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

When talking about a funding settlement, does the right hon. Gentleman acknowledge that Wales’s current settlement falls within the Holtham recommendation at £116 for every £100 spent in England? His recommendation was a figure between £114 and £117.

[Mr Llwyd]

My point is that the way the Barnett formula operates in Wales is still unfair in comparison with the amount paid out in Scotland—I am sure my friends in the Scottish National party would hit me over the head if they were here, but I will take advantage of the fact that they are not. It is a difference of £1.2 billion per annum, which is a lot of money. I remind Members that the current process on further powers for Wales began about four years ago. The issue of funding was then outside its remit, which I believe was a mistake, whether deliberate or not. Fair funding for Wales has gone for the time being, and it continues to be a major issue that the commission could have settled or commissioned work on for the future.

We entered these discussions in good faith and attempted to be constructive, as the Secretary of State said. I am not jumping up and down and screaming about the result—there are good things in the Command Paper, which I will refer to in a moment. However, we have missed an opportunity to have all the tools further to develop the economy of Wales, and to give the Welsh people further accountability for and control over the way they run their lives, and over the way money is spent for the economic good of Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[David T. C. Davies]

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman’s relationship with BT is better than mine. I do not know, but there are certainly parts of Wales that broadband is not reaching and Monmouthshire is among them.

[Alun Cairns]

I remind my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) that the scheme the hon. Gentleman talks about includes significant taxpayers’ money from the UK Government, as well—that is, £70 million. A higher level of funding comes from the UK Government through the UK taxpayer than from the Welsh Government in that process.

[David T. C. Davies]

There we have it. There is money aplenty going in to it from the Welsh Assembly, the British taxpayers and the European Union, but it is still not getting to Monmouthshire. Perhaps we should return to that point. I appreciate the co-operation between members of the Committee. People outside the Committee could perhaps take a lesson on it. I do not want to be too critical of anyone on this Thursday afternoon, but it was interesting that we found in one of our inquiries that there was not quite the co-operation between International Business Wales and UK Trade & Investment that one would like. When the First Minister, or indeed my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales, goes off to sell Wales, they should go as part of a joint trade mission so that we can show investors from the far east or elsewhere that the Welsh Assembly and the national Government are speaking with one voice on the importance of inward investment. Whether politicans are Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Plaid Cymru or from some other party, in the Assembly or Parliament, we all agree on the importance of getting investment into Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Owen Smith]

The Secretary of State shakes his head, but, as he ought to know, the speech was released to the media accidentally with the “da iawn” included in it and some suggestions as to how the Prime Minister ought to pronounce that, but if he thinks there is any prospect of Tories in the valleys ousting our Members I have another bit of Welsh for him: “Yn dy freuddwydion,” which means “In your dreams.”

[Alun Cairns]

rose—

[Owen Smith]

I will happily give way. Is the hon. Gentleman about to correct my Welsh?

[Alun Cairns]

May I suggest that, having made such an attempt at Welsh, perhaps the hon. Gentleman needs some lessons in pronunciation?

[Owen Smith]

I would accept that, as a native English speaker and a failed Welsh learner. I am still trying, although I have not reached the same standards as some, but I think that was a fair attempt at “In your dreams.”

Other examples from the Prime Minister have been pure comedy gold—not weak gags like that. We have had some excellent examples from the Prime Minister. He channelled his Welshness in trying to come up with a nickname for the Secretary of State. There is a great tradition of nicknames in Wales—Dai the Milk, Evans the Coal, and we even had Jones the Jag at one point in this place—but so impressed was the Prime Minister at the way in which the Secretary of State has warmed to devolution, indeed undertaken a damascene conversion, I am told that he referred to him as being known now in Tory circles as “Stevolution”. It has a certain ring to it, doesn’t it? I am not sure that it is the ring of truth, however. I am not entirely persuaded that he is now so devo-friendly that he could be known as “Stevolution” in Tory circles.

What certainly does not have the ring of truth are some of the other claims that the Prime Minister has been making on behalf of the Tories. He claimed this week that it was the Tories who brought Pinewood studios to Wales, despite the fact that the UK Government had nothing to do with it—

--- Later in debate ---

[Owen Smith]

I would fully accept that, were it consonant with the facts. The Prime Minister actually said in his conference speech, after listing all those achievements:

“We need to tell everyone who did all this…it’s us.”

This clearly is not true.

A bigger truth is that the Tories have done precious little to help the economy of Wales, but they have done plenty to hinder it. The people of Wales know that. When they hear the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister claiming credit for creating jobs in Wales, they know that 90,000 contracts or jobs in Wales, not 35,000 individuals, but that might also be right—[Interruption.] No, I said “jobs” yesterday. The Secretary of State should read the Hansard. They know that too many of those jobs are Tory-style mini-jobs involving zero-hours contracts, zero security, low wages and low productivity. They also know that a quarter of Welsh workers earn less than the living wage. Wales has the lowest disposable incomes in the UK.

The people of Wales know that these facts give the lie to the notion that there is a Tory-led recovery, as does the fact that we are £68 billion short on tax receipts and spending £25 billion extra on social security. The price of this failure in Wales under the Tories is a tenfold increase in the volume of people using food banks and £1,700 less in the pockets of Welsh families.

In stark contrast, the Welsh Labour Government have shown that they can get Wales working again. Jobs Growth Wales, designed and built in Cardiff, has got 17,000 young people back to work, showing that local solutions with bespoke ideas can deliver jobs in Wales. So it is inexplicable that the Tory party—the “party of real devolution”, as I am told it now calls itself—is still refusing to devolve the Work programme to Wales, as Labour will when we win in May. Inexplicable, too—to many in Wales—is why fair funding for Wales is being promised only if Wales agrees to raise taxes.

Last week, the Welsh Secretary made some important announcements about his Government’s intentions to take forward the recommendations of the cross-party Silk Commission if—heaven forefend—they are back in government next time. The Opposition agree with many of those extra measures. Putting the Welsh settlement on to the same statutory footing and making the Welsh legislature a permanent part of the UK constitution are proposals that we can agree on. We also agree with proposals to give powers to Wales over elections and energy, and additional powers over ports and marine matters. Indeed, we said all those things first. But we will go further. We will give Wales powers over policing, which is why I was disappointed at the mischaracterisation of Labour’s position by the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd. I am sure the Secretary of State will recall our position during those talks, which was, “Reserved and then announced at the party conference for Labour in Wales.”

Lastly, fair funding for Wales was one of the most important aspects of the talks. It is disingenuous of the Secretary of State now to talk about delivering fair funding, given that his Government have cut £1.5 billion from the funding for Wales and he knows that their plans to cut funding to the rest of the UK back to the levels of the 1930s will have a deeply damaging effect on Wales. Cutting spending back to the level it was when the NHS was just a glint in Nye Bevan’s eye would be devastating for Wales. So we agree with the Secretary of State that there should be a funding floor in Wales, but we want to see the detail and to know precisely where they will set that floor. Only then will the people of Wales trust this Tory Government—

[Alun Cairns]

What detail is the hon. Gentleman prepared to put forward on Labour’s funding floor proposal? The shadow Chancellor said in Cardiff today that Labour would be presenting no detail this side of the election.

[Owen Smith]

We will stand on our record of having trebled the funding for Wales during our period in office. While the Under-Secretary has been in office, the spending for Wales has been cut by £1.5 billion. So we will stand proudly on our record and we can rest assured that the people of Wales will understand that we will deliver for Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Wednesday 4th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

2. What recent discussions he has had with business representatives in Wales on the importance of membership of the EU to the Welsh economy.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

Membership of the European Union’s single market is good for businesses in Wales. However, businesses tell me that the burdens and costs imposed by the European Union are making it harder for them to grow. This Government are determined to renegotiate our membership with the European Union to get a better deal for Wales and for UK businesses, and to put that to the people.

[Mark Tami]

How many tens of thousands of jobs in Wales does the Minister think would be at risk if the UK left the EU?

[Alun Cairns]

A renegotiated European Union provides greater opportunities for businesses in Wales. I know that the hon. Gentleman shows great interest in Airbus, which says:

“Regardless of which decision the UK will make, we are strongly committed to our operations in the UK”.

The British Chambers of Commerce also supports that position. I am absolutely confident that the growth in Wales will contribute to more jobs and provide more of the certainty that people want.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the issue of British membership of the EU is indeed of concern to the people of Wales, who have not had their say on the issue for 40 years? Does he further agree that the only way they will get that say is with the return of a Conservative Government, because Labour will not give it to them?

[Alun Cairns]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. We cannot pretend that this debate is not happening. We need to make the arguments for what the CBI wants—a reformed European Union of which the UK is a part.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I am intrigued. The Minister said earlier that businesses had told him various anti-EU things. Can he name a single business across the length and breadth of Wales—north, south, east or west—that has told him it would like Wales to leave the EU?

[Alun Cairns]

I am happy to point to the survey by the British Chambers of Commerce which showed that 77% of businesses support a referendum on EU membership, and said:

“British businesses remain determined to see a recalibrated relationship between the UK and the rest of the European Union, with more powers exercised from Westminster rather than Brussels.”

I hope that the hon. Lady supports that comment from the British Chambers of Commerce.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that businesses do not always speak with one voice on this issue? While big businesses are often the most able to cope with the bureaucracy sent to us from Brussels and might want to stay within the European Union, very often small businesses do not?

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point. Many of the people who are scaremongering now are the same people who wanted to join the euro all those years ago. It is this party that stands up for the British economy and stands up for businesses, exactly as the British Chambers of Commerce, the CBI and Airbus say in the quotes I have given.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

13. [907780] In 1998, I was successful in persuading my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath (Mr Hain) to accept Denbighshire and Conwy into the bid for objective 1 European funding. In that time, Denbighshire has had a quarter of a billion pounds of private sector and public sector funding from Europe. If Britain pulls out of the EU, my constituency and my county will lose £100 million over the next seven years. What does the Minister feel about that?

[Alun Cairns]

May I remind the hon. Gentleman that European structural funds are aimed at the poorest parts of Europe? It is no mark of celebration to say that his constituency succeeded in winning that money. This Government have a long-term economic plan to turn the economy around for the longer term rather than depending on the grants and handouts for which he makes the case. He also needs to be reminded that that is our money coming back with conditions attached.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that the reforms that the CBI and others are recommending for the single market, and for the European Union in general, are absolutely right for Wales and absolutely right for Britain, and that that should be a consideration for the referendum?

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Opposition Members talk about some sort of so-called uncertainty, but that so-called uncertainty has given us the fastest-growing economy in the G7 and has made Wales the fastest-growing part of the United Kingdom, which we should be celebrating and marking.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

3. When he last met representatives of the tourism sector in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

Wales Office Ministers regularly meet representatives of the tourism industry in Wales. Wales is a fantastic holiday destination, and this Government will continue to do all they can to promote Wales at home and abroad.

[Mr Llwyd]

We are indeed fortunate in that people the world over want to visit the wonderful country of Wales—I and, I am sure, the Minister are very proud of the country—but more should be done in terms of tourism and the Welsh economy. What discussions has he or his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State had with colleagues to implement a 5% VAT rate for the tourism sector, which would bring 5,500 extra jobs to Wales?

[Alun Cairns]

With permission, Mr Speaker, a gaf i dalu teyrnged i’r Aelod gwir anrhydeddus? I would like to pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman for his service in this House over many years, and for the way in which he has led his party here.

VAT levels for business are of course set by the Treasury. The right hon. Gentleman rightly points to the importance to the Welsh economy of tourism, which makes up almost 15% of the work force. That is why I am delighted that the number of international visits last year increased by 7.5%, or 26,000 visits.

[Mr Llwyd]

Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei eiriau caeredig. I will help Hansard with the spelling later.

In terms of competitive disadvantage, 24 EU states already have a reduced rate of VAT on tourism. In addition, the economic study by Professor Adam Blake, using the Treasury’s own modelling technique, showed that a cut in tourism VAT would increase GDP by £4 billion per annum.

[Alun Cairns]

A strong tourism sector needs a strong economy. Wales is the fastest-growing part of the United Kingdom, which creates a greater opportunity to attract tourists from not only the UK but beyond. VisitBritain is launching the Countryside is Great campaign, from which I know the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency is set to benefit.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

The Minister is right to highlight the successes of the Welsh tourism industry. Will he reflect on the benefits of a cut in VAT for rural economies, particularly those in west Wales—the constituency of the Secretary of State and Ceredigion, Powys and Dwyfor Meirionnydd? They would really benefit because they are incredibly fragile economies.

[Alun Cairns]

VAT rates are a matter for the Treasury, but the hon. Gentleman will be able to make such points in the forthcoming Treasury debate. We need to ensure that Wales gets its fair share of VisitBritain, and the Countryside is Great campaign provides a great opportunity for his constituency and large parts of Wales to ensure that Wales is promoted internationally as well as within the United Kingdom.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

4. What assessment he has made of the potential benefits to south Wales of the Severn barrage.

--- Later in debate ---

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

6. What discussions he has had with the Welsh Minister for Health on cross-border health care provision.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

Wales Office Ministers hold regular discussions with Ministers in the Welsh Government on a range of issues, including the provision of health care services along the England and Wales border. We will continue to review current arrangements to ensure that they meet patients’ needs on both sides of the border.

[Glyn Davies]

A major problem facing rural Wales is difficulty in attracting GPs to come to work in Wales, and one reason for that is the bureaucracy involved in GPs having to go through a process of specific Welsh registration. Will the Minister work with the Welsh Government and the Department of Health to bring forward a common registration programme for Wales and England?

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. We want the greatest flexibility in the NHS work force across the whole United Kingdom. The regulatory burden and bureaucracy involved is unacceptable, and the Department of Health and Welsh Government are working together with the support of the Wales Office to put that right.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Many health services for my constituents are delivered from England by specialist hospitals. Why do the Secretary of State and the Minister want to take away the voice of MPs from Wales to speak up on behalf of their constituents and look after their interests?

[Alun Cairns]

I do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s premise. Welsh MPs will still be here fighting for their constituents and ensuring the best care for them, be it on the Welsh or English side of the border. That is what we will be elected for.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

Rural GP practices are at particular risk, as shown by the proposed closure of the Llanwrtyd GP surgery, and patients will have nowhere to go. Will the Minister make representations not only to the Royal College of General Practitioners but to the Wales Deanery, to encourage more GPs?

[Alun Cairns]

That is a matter for the Welsh Government, but I will happily raise that point. The point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) underlines the fact that flexibility would create greater opportunity to try to fill those gaps.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Will the Minister concede that one of the main problems with the health service in Wales is underfunding, on which the new announcement on further devolution has signally failed to deliver?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about funding, and there have been many debates in the Chamber about the funding of the NHS in England and in Wales. As my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) once said, Aneurin Bevan would turn in his grave if he thought that a Welsh Labour Government were cutting the NHS budget while a Conservative Government in Westminster were growing the NHS budget.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

7. What discussions he has had with the National Police Air Service on the provision of helicopter services within Dyfed Powys police force area.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

As a police-led initiative, it is for the National Police Air Service Strategic Board to develop the operating and financial models to meet the needs of all forces throughout Wales and England.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The Dyfed Powys helicopter base at Pembrey is a state-of-the-art facility that opened only in 2010, at a cost of £2 million to the residents of the force area. Last month the newly created National Police Air Service reneged on an agreement made only last November to preserve that base. Dedicated helicopter capacity is vital to policing in the Dyfed Powys area. On Monday, for example, the helicopter saved the life of an injured man at the LNG facility in Pembrokeshire, transporting him to Heath in Cardiff. Will the Minister raise that issue with the Home Secretary and NPAS, and will he meet me to discuss the concerns of the people of west Wales?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and I pay tribute to the police and crime commissioner, Chris Salmon, for his work on that. He has an agreement in place that extends access to the helicopter service from 12 to 24 hours, with an 85% priority recall within 20 minutes. That is delivering more for less money. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is a lot of noise in the Chamber. Let us have some order for the Chair of the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee of the House of Commons, Mr Graham Allen.

Employment in Wales

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) on securing this important debate. We have heard a range of contributions. It was certainly interesting to hear that of the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd, although of course my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) highlighted the impact of the dead hand of Labour on the Vale of Clwyd and every other constituency. He also reminded us that Labour signed up to the public spending commitments set out by the Government for the forthcoming years; whenever the Opposition criticise this Administration’s cuts, they must demonstrate which they would make instead of ours.

The hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) highlighted the fragility of the private sector in Wales. I challenge some of the points that he made about that fragility, as the private sector is thriving in terms of creating employment, but the greater stability and security that we can offer such businesses will allow the sector to be more robust than ever. My hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) highlighted a host of contradictions made by some Opposition Members and discussed Labour’s tactic to grow wealth by swelling the welfare state, which is clearly economically illiterate and does not stack up. My hon. Friend was absolutely right.

The hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) focused on welfare reform, and seemed to complain about the benefit cap of £23,000 proposed this morning by the Prime Minister. I remind him that many people in Wales who work hard day in and day out do not earn that much salary. If he does not support a £23,000 benefit cap, the money saved by such a cap would need to be found in cuts elsewhere, which I hope Labour will outline.

The hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) covered a range of issues. He seemed to suggest that public sector jobs were good and private sector jobs were bad, which I absolutely reject. He also highlighted the issue of zero-hours contracts. The Government are tackling the abuse of zero-hours contracts, but I remind the hon. Gentleman that the Labour party itself, and even Labour MPs, use zero-hours contracts. He rightly focused on the living wage and minimum wage. We encourage as many employers as possible to live up to the living wage, but I point out that a number of Labour-run local authorities in Wales do not pay the living wage, and I encourage Labour Members to consider that within their budget plans and affordability measures.

The hon. Gentleman closed on the minimum wage and said that the Labour Government would increase it; I think that the latest policy to which they are committing is £8 an hour. However, a Labour former Cabinet member has highlighted how unambitious that is; even under past projections, by 2020 it will not buy much. If historical increases in the minimum wage were projected forward, they would go well beyond that. In reality, Labour is talking about cutting the minimum wage for hard-working people.

[Guto Bebb]

Although I aspire for people to be paid more than the minimum wage, it is important when we discuss it not to forget that many of those on the minimum wage pay significantly less tax as a direct result of this Government’s policies to ensure that people keep more of the money that they earn.

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making an extremely important and valid point. Some of the data and statistics highlighted by Opposition Members were somewhat selective, and we need to take the totality of Government changes into account; doing so highlights the progress that has been made.

It is also important to remember the context in which this debate is taking place. We need to remember that when Labour came to power in 1997, Wales was not the poorest part of the United Kingdom. Since then, sadly, there has been a complete shift in culture. That is simply illustrated: in a population of 3 million, there are 200,000 people in Wales who have never worked. The Government needed to act. We were simply not prepared to allow the previous trends to continue, whereby, sadly, the economy of Wales was being compared to those of Romania and Bulgaria; whereby parts of Wales were blighted with worklessness; and whereby a third of the working-age populations of some communities were claiming out-of-work benefits.

We have taken key steps to deal with that legacy of worklessness and a welfare system that encouraged dependency. As a Government, we have put in place a long-term economic plan to deal with the situation that we inherited—in 2010, Wales was, sadly, the poorest part of the UK. That fact will always come back to haunt Opposition Members. They talk about wealth, prosperity and growth, but they left Wales as the poorest part of the UK, despite receiving in 1997 an economy that meant Wales was not the poorest part of the UK.

We developed a plan to stabilise the country’s economy, to deal with years of financial mismanagement under the last Labour Government and to get the people of Wales and Britain back to work. That long-term economic plan is paying dividends. It surprises me that during the last hour or so I have listened to Opposition Members playing down the progress of the labour market in their constituencies.

For example, in the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd’s constituency, unemployment more than doubled between 2005 and 2010; there was a rise of 105% under the last Administration. Since 2010, unemployment in Vale of Clwyd has dropped by a third. Surely he welcomes that as a positive outcome.

[Chris Ruane]

What about since 1997?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman points back to 1997, but I can speak only about the time since 2010, when this Administration came to power. However, I remind him of what I said before: in 1997, Wales was not the poorest part of the UK but, sadly, by 2010 it was. That happened under both a Labour UK Government and a Labour Welsh Assembly Government. Thirteen years of Labour Administrations in Wales between 1997 and 2010 left Wales as the poorest part of the UK.

On a positive note, I hope that the hon. Gentleman welcomes the fall in unemployment in his constituency since this Administration came to power. The picture is similar for youth unemployment in the Vale of Clywd; it went up by 82% under Labour, but since 2010 it has come down by a third. Why does he not recognise the positive steps that the Government have taken in that regard, and why is he not congratulating the businesses in his constituency that are creating these jobs and employment opportunities for his constituents?

It was a privilege to visit Clogau Gold in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency just a short time ago. It is expanding, exporting, and creating wealth and employment locally in the Vale of Clywd. I regret how the hon. Gentleman is talking down his own area; that is hardly creating the mood to attract investment and to encourage companies such as Clogau Gold to continue to spend money on investing, exporting and creating yet more wealth.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The Minister talks of the “long-term economic plan”, but have not the deficit reduction targets of his Government been missed by a country mile? One of the major reasons for that is that the jobs being created are low-wage in nature, which means they do not generate the revenues the Treasury was expecting.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point; we need to recognise the context in terms of deficit reduction. Given that we had been so over-dependent on the eurozone as our export market and that the eurozone went into near-meltdown, naturally that hit the Welsh economy disproportionately harder than we would have liked. That is why the long-term economic plan aims at growing exports, such as those of Clogau Gold in the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd’s constituency, well beyond Europe—to the middle east, to the far east and to the fast-developing economies of Brazil, Russia, India and China. Excellent progress has been made in that regard.

Would I have liked the deficit to have been cut further? Of course I would. However, the process is about achieving a balance between reducing the deficit and creating wealth and employment. The Government’s record is positive in that respect. We need to remember that last year the UK was the fastest growing economy in the G7, and that Wales is the second fastest growing part of the UK. We are absolutely up there at the top; we need to recognise and celebrate that, rather than hearing the arguments that we have heard from Opposition Members. It is in their interests to talk Wales down, creating more dependency and trying to create a sort of depth of Labour voters to look to Labour for help rather than looking to the private sector for wealth as well as opportunity creation and generation.

Overall, the picture throughout the whole of Wales is positive, just as it is in the Vale of Clwyd. I could highlight more statistics about north Wales and the south Wales valleys, but the reality is that long-term unemployment is falling and the Work programme is having a major effect. Jobs Growth Wales has a part to play, but we must remember that the independent assessment of Jobs Growth Wales highlighted that 73% of the people who found jobs through it would have found jobs elsewhere.

Let us pool our ideas and resources, to try to get people off welfare and into work through the positive culture of cutting tax, growing the economy and reducing unemployment, in exactly the way that the Government have done.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of trends in the level of infrastructure investment in Wales since 2010.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

We have been ambitious in our infrastructure investment plans to address the historic underinvestment in Wales by previous Governments. We are enabling businesses in Wales to expand and explore new markets by investing in better train links, less-congested roads and faster broadband speeds.

[Stuart Andrew]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Given the commitment to fund the northern hub in full and the ambition for HS3 to improve connectivity right across the north of England, what is his Department doing to ensure that north Wales can take full advantage of those welcome developments?

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend is right to highlight the significant infrastructure investment being made across the whole of the UK, but of course it is important that north Wales links into the rest of the UK. The fact that Crewe is the HS2 hub is important, and I look forward to hosting a transport summit in the next week or so to discuss how we best link north Wales with the rest of the UK.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

13. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Transport on investment in rail in north Wales. Will the Minister confirm that the UK Government have diverted funding previously allocated for the phase 1 and phase 2 modular rail signalling upgrade in north Wales to support investment in rail projects in south Wales?

[Alun Cairns]

I can categorically reject that. The UK Government are making significant investment in north Wales, at the Halton curve, and in south Wales, in the electrification of the main line right through to Swansea and in the valley lines and Vale of Glamorgan line services. I am proud of our record of electrifying railways in Wales. The previous Administration left us as one of the three nations across Europe without any electrified rail; Wales, sadly, was left with Albania and Moldova, and this Government are changing that.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

Will the Minister congratulate the Welsh Government on providing funding for infrastructure investment in Rhyl? They have provided £28 million for new housing in Rhyl; £22 million for a new community hospital; £10 million for a new harbour; £25 million for a new Rhyl high school; and £12 million for flood defences. Will he also condemn the coalition Government, who have closed down Rhyl county court, Rhyl Army recruitment centre and Rhyl tax office, with the Crown post office possibly being relocated out of Rhyl?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman is somewhat selective in the data he shares. I am proud of the infrastructure investment record of this Government; he failed to mention the north Wales prison and the Halton curve, as well as the investment across the whole of Wales, not only in the north.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

In recent months, I have been working with the communities of Salem, Cwmdu, Talley and Pumsaint, which have been without landline provision while waiting for damaged lines to be repaired. Communication problems have been exacerbated by a lack of mobile coverage, so will the Minister ensure that mobile not spots in Carmarthenshire benefit from the recently announced investment in mobile infrastructure?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that important issue. Openreach and British Telecom need to get on top of replacing those lines when they fall because of adverse weather. Let me also congratulate the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport on the innovation he is showing in trying to close those not spots by using both private money and the mobile infrastructure plan, which will make a major difference in these areas.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

4. What steps the Government are taking to support the dairy industry in rural Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

7. What assessment he has made of the implications for the Government’s policies of the Auditor General for Wales’s report on “Managing the Impact of Welfare Reform Changes on Social Housing Tenants in Wales”, published in January 2015.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

This Government will not shy away from the financial and social responsibility of reforming the way in which housing benefit is allocated. There are no plans to change Government policy following the report from the Auditor General for Wales. We plan to use this report to support local authorities to respond better to local needs.

[Ann Clwyd]

As the Minister will know, there has been a large number of Government reports on the Government’s welfare policies. A Sheffield Hallam university report, for example, shows that the south Wales valleys will experience a £430 million cut in income, endangering 3,000 local jobs as a direct result of Tory welfare reforms. Is not the Minister ashamed?

[Alun Cairns]

The report that the right hon. Lady mentions is an important contribution to the debate, but it focuses on only one element of Government policy. It does not take into account the wider package of welfare reform—something that the previous Administration, sadly, shied away from. This Administration will not do so, because of the important need to tackle Government finances.

[Mr Hanson]

The 1,500 people in Flintshire who are impacted by the bedroom tax face no choice but to cut their incomes, which are already low, because there are no properties available. Will the Minister tell me how many two-bedroom and one-bedroom properties are available in Flintshire today?

[Alun Cairns]

The right hon. Gentleman raises an important point because the number of new social properties built in Wales over the past three years is, proportionately, far fewer than the number built in England over the same period. The Welsh Government have a responsibility to deliver in that area. The Wales Audit Office report also highlights the fact that 47% of tenants had no advice given to them on how better to manage the spare room subsidy and the obligations that it would bring.

[Mark Tami]

Will the Minister explain why it is right to force disabled people out of a home and into a smaller property—should one exist in the first place—rip out all the adaptations that have been made to that property and, presumably, put new ones into a second property? Apart from being cruel, how can such action possibly be cost-effective?

[Alun Cairns]

This Government have made additional money available through the discretionary housing payment to help individuals facing difficult circumstances. Only three out of 22 local authorities in the whole of Wales—Cardiff, Caerphilly and Conwy—applied for additional discretionary housing payments. The hon. Gentleman’s local authority did not do that. Let us be clear: the roots of the removal of the spare room subsidy lie deeply in the Labour Benches, because it was a Labour Administration who took it away from the private-rented sector. We are merely extending that principle to the social-rented sector.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

My own local authority runs a useful forum for local agencies to plan a response to the bedroom tax, but its work is bedevilled by a lack of certainty over central Government support through the discretionary fund. Will the Minister prevail on his colleagues to give more certainty to future funding, which would help our work?

[Alun Cairns]

The discretionary housing payment is completely flexible and local authorities should use their discretion to see that it is used in the best way. The Wales Audit Office report provides excellent data and highlights some authorities such as Caerphilly and Cardiff that provide excellent practice and support their tenants in meeting the obligations of the spare room subsidy. After all, it is about returning the long-term unemployed back to the workplace, as that offers them the best opportunities and the best prospects.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

8. What assessment he has made of the level of growth in the high-tech sector in Wales since 2010.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

9. What recent discussions he has had on increased shared services jobs in Gwent.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

The Wales Office continues to hold discussions with the Ministry of Justice on the future of the Shared Services Connected Limited offices in Newport. The Justice Secretary has been clear that he would not support any proposals to offshore jobs from Newport.

[Paul Flynn]

The city of Newport has provided a splendid successful habitat for thousands of civil service jobs. Will the Minister renew his efforts to ensure that shared services, which were pioneered in Newport, are now strengthened and recognised as centres of excellence?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that issue. It is quite obvious that the pooling of the expertise and experience in Newport provides the shared services facility a great opportunity to try to attract work from both the private and public sectors, and we are determined to do what we can in that area.

[John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)]

10. What assessment he has made of the prevalence of anti-Semitism in Wales.

Wales Bill

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Wednesday 10th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith]

No. I am saying that if there were a Labour Government, we would have a constitutional convention to look at the whole of the UK. Therefore, wherever we were in the Smith commission proposals, which will continue on their course, that would need to be fed into the convention. A constitutional convention would not need to slow down or stop further devolution to Scotland, but it would have to take cognisance of what was happening in Scotland.

Whatever further changes are made in Wales should reflect what happens in Scotland, because the willingness to accept asymmetry has diminished in Wales and elsewhere. Many of us feel that such asymmetry inherently leads, over time, to instability in the existing settlement.

In the absence of a convention, we must consider why the Government think that Wales should take up the new powers. I want to start not with Labour, but with the current Government. Why do they now feel that the Labour Welsh Government should have an unfettered ability to raise taxes or to lower them to levels below those in England? The Secretary of State has made a couple of soundbites or comments today to illustrate why he thinks we should do so—he talked repeatedly about accountability and responsibility—but I must say that none of them was quite as blunt and honest as the rationale he gave to the Institute of Welsh Affairs a few weeks ago. He said clearly that his objective in providing the tax varying powers was to

“end the politics of the begging bowl in Wales”—

[Interruption.] The Secretary of State says, “Absolutely,” but I find that quite an offensive position for him to take. He should not describe Wales as, in effect, a supplicant, and nor should he suggest that we are a scrounger or a shirker asking for handouts. It is not for him to suggest that the cure for the

“politics of the begging bowl”,

as he injudiciously puts it, is to force the Welsh people to raise taxes within their own borders. I do not espouse such a dog-eat-dog, race-to-the-bottom version of Britain, and nor should he.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

The phrase “begging bowl”, as used in this context, originated with former First Minister Rhodri Morgan. Does the shadow Secretary of State completely dissociate himself from that?

[Owen Smith]

It was deployed in an entirely different context. The implication of the Secretary of State’s pejorative use of the phrase was—I am paraphrasing, but this was broadly what he said in the rest of his speech —that the Welsh Government have not been responsible or accountable, but that they would become so for the first time if tax powers were afforded to them. I have never accepted that the Welsh Government are unaccountable —they are as accountable as any elected Government—and I certainly do not subscribe to the view that Wales has ever held out a begging bowl.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb]

I will not, because there is another group of Lords amendments to discuss.

I should like to finish by paying particular tribute to the contribution made by my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies). He set out some powerful arguments, and has done so from a position of real credibility, having been an Assembly Member. He has been ahead of the curve on many occasions in recognising the strategic direction that Welsh devolution needs to go in and the benefits that can be accrued to Wales by taking sensible, moderate and pragmatic steps forward. On that note, I shall bring my remarks to a close.

Lords amendment 1 agreed to, with Commons financial privilege waived.

Lords amendments 2 to 13 and 17 agreed to, with Commons financial privilege waived.



Clause 13

Proposal for referendum by Assembly

[Alun Cairns]

I beg to move, That this House agrees with Lords amendment 14.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

With this it will be convenient to consider Lords amendments 15 and 16.

[Alun Cairns]

These amendments provide that, when a resolution to hold a referendum on income tax powers is moved in the National Assembly for Wales, the Assembly must state as part of the resolution whether the voting age for that referendum is to be 16 or 18. During the Bill’s passage through the other place, a number of peers sought to extend the franchise in Wales to 16 and 17-year-olds. They highlighted the fact that young people in Scotland had been able to vote in the independence referendum, but young people in Wales would not be able to vote in a referendum on income tax powers. I pay tribute to the younger voters of Scotland who actively registered and voted in that referendum. I know that many people felt that the involvement of 16 and 17-year-olds helped to reinvigorate the political process and the political parties, and I understand why the Bill has reignited the debate on these issues.

[Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)]

The Minister has mentioned the registration of young voters in Scotland. What was done there to get the registration rates so high was great. Is he aware that the registration rate for 18-year-olds in England and Wales is as low as 55%, so if this provision goes ahead, we will really have to work hard to get the registration rate up?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The Bill contains measures to encourage the Assembly to engage with younger people and encourage them to register, should it wish to extend the franchise in the referendum on income tax varying powers.

[Chris Ruane]

Has the Minister heard of an organisation called Bite the Ballot? It can go into sixth forms and register 100% of the students at a cost of only 25p per registration. Does he think that the Assembly—and, indeed, the UK Government—should be working closely with organisations such as Bite the Ballot to get the registration rate up?

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I am not familiar with that organisation, so it would not be right for me to endorse its activities at this stage. Clearly, however, any activity that encourages people who are eligible to vote to do so is broadly positive, and I would encourage the Welsh Government, the Assembly and the UK Administration to engage with a range of organisations and bodies to support that aim further.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The Minister is right to say that the referendum in Scotland reinvigorated the political process there, but that is because it was on a definitive issue. The proposed referendum for Wales is on a very technical point—the partial income tax arrangement—and is it not a danger that that is hardly going to excite the masses? Does that indicate that if we are to have another referendum in Wales, it has to be on something meaningful which is going to alter radically the devolution settlement?

[Alun Cairns]

We spent the earlier part of this debate discussing Lords amendments relating to the referendum, and I believed that the hon. Gentleman, in his usual positive way, as well as Liberal Democrat and Conservative Members, thought that the referendum on income tax varying powers would be definitive. It gives a great opportunity for political parties to sell the great prospect that lower taxes could bring to Wales, and the resulting wealth-creating opportunities.

[Jonathan Edwards]

My point is that if we are to have a referendum, it needs to be on a point of principle, and the principle of fiscal devolution has been conceded already in the Wales Bill with the devolution of the minor taxes.

[Alun Cairns]

I am not sure where this is going, but I accept that the engagement of young people is exceptionally important. The purpose of this Lords amendment is to devolve the power for the referendum to the Welsh Assembly, and it can therefore make judgments accordingly.

[Glyn Davies]

I questioned the need for a referendum. Although we accept that it is part of the Bill, does the Minister think there may be a possibility at some future stage of getting to a position where we can proceed with this income tax raising power, despite Labour’s opposition, by including it in a general election manifesto and not having a referendum?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that, and I pay tribute to him for his speech. The debate on devolution is moving quickly and the referendum in Scotland has changed the debate across the whole of the UK. It is up to each political party to make its judgment. It is almost certain that there will be a Wales Bill in the next Parliament, whoever is in government. There will be an opportunity for him to make the case at that stage, and for each political party to make the case leading up to the election and include an element relating to that in its manifesto.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

On the amendment that allows the Assembly to decide on the franchise for the referendum on tax powers, does the Minister agree that allowing 16 and 17-year-olds to vote on the tax issue and then not allowing them to vote in a subsequent Assembly election would send a very odd message about trust in young people?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, but I do not agree with him on that specific point. The Wales Bill provides the opportunity for the Assembly to introduce a referendum on tax varying powers, to the degree that we have already considered. That will extend the franchise specifically in this area. It learns the lessons from Scotland and creates the opportunity for us to reinvigorate young people in this area. However, the debate on the franchise in general for other elections is very different; there is no general consensus on that across all parties in the House and it is a constitutional matter that will be ongoing. It is not part of this Bill, but I have no doubt that it will form part of future debates that many parties will want to have.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Further to the points made by the hon. Members for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), extending the suffrage down to 16 and 17-year-olds could indeed be part of a manifesto commitment. Such an approach might avoid the problem of the referendum being on a narrow issue to do with tax and of this measure being in one Wales Bill, and it would replicate the commitment made by the leader of the Labour party this week to do just that.

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point, but that is a major constitutional change covering lots of other political areas and it is well beyond the scope of this Bill. I am seeking to address amendments that will allow the Assembly to make progress in this area, should it wish to do so. It is up to the Assembly to make its own decisions. This provision devolves the power for it to extend the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds. However, it is important to recognise that there is no consensus across parties on the issue of changing the franchise to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote in elections in general.

In the specific case of the income tax referendum, the Government have listened to those who have called on them to look afresh at the issue. When the Secretary of State took office, he said that he wanted to be pragmatic and to listen to the views of the people. Part of that pragmatism is recognising the impact that the Scotland referendum had on politics across the whole of the United Kingdom.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

To assist the debate, may I use the example of a 96-year-old person whom I met on Sunday? He was receiving the Ushakov medal for his work on the Arctic convoys. At the age of 14, he enlisted with the merchant navy and spent six months training on HMS Warspite and then sailed up the Amazon nine months later. He was certainly ready to vote, and so were the students who met me in Parliament last week to discuss the importance of voting at the age of 16 and 17. Let us just bite the bullet and do it.

[Alun Cairns]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and to the two constituents in my own constituency who have recently received medals from the Russian Government. None the less, he makes a point that goes well beyond the scope of the Bill, and that will be part of an important debate in the future. He will be able to make his point again when the time comes.

[Mr Mark Williams]

How are we to tell constituents that we are, on the one hand, allowing 16 and 17-year-olds to vote, but on the other, denying them the franchise to vote in general, local or Assembly elections? How would the Minister explain that inconsistency? I suspect that after this amendment, which I very much welcome, we will need some answers to that question.

[Alun Cairns]

I suggest that the age of majority is different for different processes across the United Kingdom. It is a major constitutional change to extend the franchise for all elections. The scope of this Bill is specific about extending powers to the Welsh Assembly, and it is for the Assembly to decide. Who knows, the Welsh Assembly may not decide to extend the franchise to younger voters. It is up to it to decide on a referendum for income tax varying powers in Wales. That is the answer that the hon. Gentleman might wish to give to his constituents. This measure is not about extending the franchise to 16-year-olds, but about granting the power and the opportunity for the Assembly to decide on that basis.

[Geraint Davies]

It is one thing to say that there is a strong case for people of 16 to have a vote as they have a general knowledge of politics in the round and can make an informed decision, but the argument we are trying to make is whether young voters who have never voted can suddenly grasp the technicalities of setting different rates at different levels and what that implies. That is not much of an encouragement to enter the world of democracy. It is a highly technical issue. Will the Minister now at least serve notice on the fact that he will be championing a general franchise for people of 16 to vote in future elections?

[Alun Cairns]

I think the hon. Gentleman is underestimating the capacity of young people to grasp technicalities. I have far more confidence in younger people to be able to consider such matters. He makes an important point, but it could easily be made in another debate. This is about extending the power to the Assembly to decide, and not about extending the franchise to young people per se. We are simply devolving the power. The Assembly has had a vote on extending the franchise to younger voters, and there was a majority in favour of it, but when it comes to make its own choice specifically on a matter such as this, who knows what will ultimately come forward.

As a result, on Third Reading in the other place we tabled amendments to allow the Assembly to decide whether 16 and 17-year-olds should be able to vote in an income tax referendum. As the volume of interventions we have heard indicates, this is the first opportunity the House has had to consider the matter, and I look forward to hearing the contributions that are to follow. It is the Assembly that will decide when to call a referendum, and it is right that it should decide who can vote in it. The amendment puts that decision in the hands of the Assembly, just as it was put in the hands of the Scottish Parliament for September’s referendum.

These amendments also provide that if the Assembly resolves that the voting age is to be lowered to 16, the resulting order to be laid by the Secretary of State would also provide for the creation of a register of young voters. That register would include those who will have attained the age of 16 on the date of the income tax referendum and those age 17 who are not already listed on the register of local government electors as an attainer—that is, a 17-year-old who will turn 18 before the next electoral register is published. The important point is that those who have attained the age of 16 on the date of the poll will be eligible to vote in an income tax referendum if they appear on either the register of young voters or the register of local government electors.

I should also be clear about what these amendments do not do. They do not devolve competence over the wider franchise to the Assembly, as I have previously stated, and they do not allow the Assembly to decide the voting age for any poll other than that for an income tax referendum. The franchise for elections in Wales remains solely within the power of this Parliament. I know that there are strongly held views on both sides of the House about reducing the voting age—we heard some of them earlier. I want to reassure hon. Members who might be concerned that these amendments set a precedent for future elections that they do not. It is important to underline that they do not set a precedent. They relate specifically to an income tax referendum in Wales, and to no other poll. They give the Assembly a choice for that referendum. If and when a trigger vote is held, it would be for the Assembly to decide whether the voting age will be 16 or 18. I therefore ask the House to support these amendments.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

I am pleased to put on record Labour’s support for the Lords amendments to clause 13 and schedule 1, which will enable the Welsh Government to set a voting age of 16 in a future referendum on income tax powers. Labour believes that the National Assembly for Wales should have responsibility for its own electoral arrangements. Lords amendment 14 will insert a new subsection (1A) into clause 13 to provide that if the First Minister or a Welsh Minister moves a resolution in the Assembly under clause 13(1)(a) requesting that an order be made under clause 12 to cause an income tax referendum to be held in Wales, that resolution must state whether the voting age at such a referendum is to be 16 or 18.

I have long been a supporter of votes at 16, on which Labour Members have provided a strong lead. I pay tribute particularly to Julie Morgan, a former MP and now Assembly Member for Cardiff North, and to my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) for their campaigning on the issue. We saw the success of allowing 16 and 17-year-olds to take part in the Scottish independence referendum. Following the Smith commission, responsibility for electoral matters is on the cards to be devolved to Scotland. My right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), the leader of the Labour party, has urged the UK Government to ensure that that happens in time for the 2016 elections to the Scottish Parliament. Control over electoral arrangements should likewise be devolved to Wales and Northern Ireland.

The Lords amendments reflect our belief that electoral arrangements should be devolved to Wales and our commitment to extending the franchise for all elections to 16 and 17-year-olds. Furthermore, this week my right hon. Friend made it absolutely clear that a future Labour Government would legislate to lower the voting age to 16, and it would be interesting to hear the Minister’s position on that issue. We would also legislate to devolve electoral arrangements to the Welsh Assembly.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Ruane]

My hon. Friend is taking issue with the right hon. Gentleman. There is a place for such terminology in some debates, but perhaps not those with 16-year-olds.

The issue of civics should go beyond finance and how we organise our economy. The finances of a country can impinge on wider issues such as racism, sexism and consumerism. There are threats from parties out there that are against the fabric of our British society. They want to promote the issue of race. It is fine if they want to discuss that, but it has to be done with intelligence, not bigotry.

The introduction of voting rights for young people at the age of 16 for the income tax raising powers referendum is a good idea. We should be very wary of what the Electoral Commission has done—or has not done—in the past if we are to make sure that these young people are registered. The Electoral Commission should be contacting electoral registration officers in the 22 authorities in Wales to make sure that they know how to register these young people. It should be regularly monitoring best practice from around the UK—indeed, around the world—and relaying that information to the Welsh Government in Cardiff to make sure that best practice is pursued in Wales for the purposes of registration for the referendum.

Best practice in registering young people exists in Northern Ireland. The EROs in Northern Ireland are proactive in going out to schools to register young people. We should be doing that, but the Electoral Commission has refused to replicate in the rest of the UK what is now done in Northern Ireland.

The Electoral Commission has failed to ensure that electoral registration officers obey the law. Statutorily, they must knock on the door of non-responders. If a 16-year-old was not registered to vote for the referendum, for example, the local ERO would have to go round, knock on the door and register that 16-year-old. Even though that requirement has been set out in law for many years, there has not been a single prosecution of an ERO who has broken the law. One ERO in Devon has broken the law by not conducting a door-to-door canvass for five years on the trot, but the Electoral Commission has done nothing about it.

We should make sure that the Electoral Commission warns EROs in Wales about that. We do have best practice in Wales. My own electoral registration officer, Gareth Evans, is one of best performing EROs in the whole country, but not all officers are as good as him, and we need to make sure that they all perform at the standards of the best so that young people are registered.

The Electoral Commission has failed miserably to use the most effective and efficient third-party organisations, such as Bite the Ballot, to get young people on to the electoral register. Bite the Ballot can register young people for as little as 25p per registration, but when one compares the cost of the Electoral Commission’s advertising campaign with the number of registration forms downloaded from the internet, it spent £80 per registration in 2005. The commission should therefore work with EROs in Wales, as well as with Bite the Ballot, to encourage them to ensure that 16-year-olds are registered from the outset.

This is a great opportunity, and I congratulate both elements of the coalition, especially the Conservatives. It is not in their nature to extend the vote. They are rightly fearful of young people, which is perhaps why they are not talking much about the lack of registration at national level. Registration rates in some wards in student areas of big university cities such as Manchester and Liverpool are as low as 20% following the move over to IER. I congratulate everyone, including my Front-Bench colleagues, and I hope that we will learn from this opportunity and go on to extend to 16 to 18-year-olds the right to vote in all elections.

[Alun Cairns]

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) for the positive way in which he has ended this debate. He contributed to it by highlighting the need for young people to be educated about the process, and the need for us to engage with the activities of electoral registration officers, which were mentioned by my hon. Friends the Members for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) and for Ceredigion (Mr Williams).

The Lords amendments are intended to be positive. They will extend the powers of the Assembly. They provide greater powers than those in the original Bill, and this is the first time that we have had the opportunity to discuss them. At some stages of the debate, I felt that although all parties are in favour of those powers, they were being welcomed almost through gritted teeth. I am therefore grateful to the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd for finishing on a positive note.

Some hon. Members said that they have campaigned for votes at 16 for a very long time, but if there was such support, the extension of the vote could have been done during the 13 years of the previous Labour Administration. The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) pointed out that he tabled amendments at the time and they were certainly not accepted by Labour. However, I want to be positive.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

It is a shame that the Minister is speaking on a sour note. May I ask him to bear in mind the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) made about encouraging electoral registration officers and others to register young people at age 15, when they get their national insurance number? That seems a good idea, so will the Minister contact his colleagues in the Cabinet Office to encourage it? It would be administratively neat and I suspect that, as my hon. Friend suggested, it would help boost voter registration among young people, which has to be a good thing. We should have this debate in that positive way rather than go in a sour direction, as the Minister has done.

[Alun Cairns]

I do not intend to be sour in any way, shape or form. I want to be positive, because the Bill will extend the powers of the Assembly and is welcomed by all parties. It is important that it is recognised in that way, rather than in the churlish way in which it has been welcomed in some quarters. I take the hon. Gentleman’s point positively, and the Cabinet Office will have heard his suggestion and the contributions of other Members, including the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd. Those points go well beyond the scope of the Lords amendments, but they have been well made and received in a positive way, which is how the debate should finish.

The Bill has passed through both Houses, and we all need to recognise that it represents a major shift in powers and that there is a great opportunity for Wales, the Assembly and the Welsh Government if they use those powers productively and enthusiastically. I pay tribute to the Secretary of State for how he has handled the Bill since taking office, but also to his predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones), for his contribution in steering the Bill through the House, and to Baroness Randerson for her activities in the other place. I also pay tribute to the officials and everyone else who has worked on the Bill, particularly in the Wales Office. I hope that the House will support the Lords amendments.

Lords amendment 14 agreed to, with Commons financial privilege waived.

Lords amendments 15 and 16 agreed to, with Commons financial privilege waived.