Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 6th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly to my Amendment 16, which is in this group. I am, as ever, grateful to my noble friend for sparing the time to talk about this. My amendment is designed to be helpful. It is designed from experience of previous railway legislation, in which we got bogged down in massive detail, with hundreds of amendments; we may get somewhere, but it takes longer.

Given the discussion that we had on a large number of subjects in Committee, and will probably have today on Report, I thought it would be useful to probe the Minister’s view of how long it will be before what I call the definitive Bill is published. If that is going to take until spring, as some of us have been told, it might be useful to publish a draft Bill or a draft Command Paper that we could read several months before and have the opportunity to debate. That might help us resolve what the real problems are and how to deal with them, rather than on the Floor of the House for many days in Committee and on Report.

That is the purpose of my amendment, and I look forward to my noble friend’s response. I am not going to press this amendment, but it will be interesting to hear what he has to say.

[Lord Grayling (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly on some of the themes that my noble friend Lord Gascoigne has been pursuing around reporting on performance. The Government seem to be a little reticent about being willing to accept amendments which increase reporting requirements. However, there is an important issue here: will public ownership do what the Government have promised it will and improve performance on the railways? I have my doubts about that. I think the challenges of the railways are much more complex and not about ownership but the complexity of our system.

I have a very simple question for the Minister. When you arrive in this House as a new Member, one thing that is very noticeable is the extraordinary level of expertise that exists on Benches on all sides. He brings a very considerable degree of expertise in this House after a long and distinguished career in the rail and transport sector. Can he set aside for a moment his ministerial hat and give us a professional judgment about the likely performance? To take a comparison, can he reassure us that the London Overground, for example, would perform better if run directly as a public body by Transport for London rather than being contracted out to a private operator as it is at the moment? Can he reassure us on that, for the precedents that will exist elsewhere?

Franchising Schemes (Franchising Authorities) (England) Regulations 2024

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2024 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill) (Lab)]

My Lords, these draft regulations relate to access to bus franchising powers for all types of local transport authorities in England outside London. The regulations bring into effect paragraphs (b) to (g) of Section 123A(4) of the Transport Act 2000, such that the types of authorities listed in those paragraphs come within the meaning of “franchising authority”.

These powers were previously limited to mayoral combined authorities and mayoral county combined authorities. However, these regulations give all types of local transport authorities access to powers to franchise their bus services. In doing so, they will ensure that decisions are made at the right level. These regulations aim to give the power to local leaders to determine the most appropriate action to deliver an improved bus network, based on the needs and circumstances of their areas. This step does not mandate local transport authorities to franchise; it is about providing them with a suite of tools to support their communities and deliver better bus services.

The department will build on the progress of these draft regulations through the introduction of the buses Bill later in this parliamentary Session. The Bill will deliver further changes to make bus franchising easier to deliver, alongside other measures on areas such as accessible travel. It will also improve bus services for local transport authorities that choose not to franchise, allowing greater flexibility over bus funding and letting local leaders deliver their own local transport priorities. Alongside this, the department is building its capacity to provide practical support to local transport authorities throughout the franchising process, should they wish to pursue it.

I will now provide some background information about these regulations. Bus franchising powers for local transport authorities in England, outside London, were created in the Bus Services Act 2017. Powers were automatically given to mayoral combined authorities and mayoral county combined authorities to allow them to prepare a franchising scheme assessment—essentially a business case—if they chose to do so, without requiring consent from the Secretary of State for Transport.

Currently, all other types of local transport authorities wishing to prepare a franchising scheme assessment face a two-stage pre-assessment process. First, regulations must be made which switch on access to the franchising powers. Secondly, the Secretary of State for Transport must give her consent to any individual authority to prepare an assessment of their proposed franchising scheme. This instrument implements the initial stage of this process for non-mayoral combined authorities, ensuring that they will need to obtain the Secretary of State’s consent only to prepare a franchising scheme assessment. This will reduce the barriers facing these types of local transport authorities in pursuing bus franchising.

I turn to the detail of the regulations. Bus franchising is a model for providing bus services where a local authority determines the details of the service and private operators are contracted to run the services. Alternatively, in a deregulated market, any company, subject to minimum safety and operating standards, can operate and have control over bus services. These regulations seek to empower local leaders to choose the model that works best in their area to manage their bus services. Bus franchising is one of those tools. Alternatively, local transport authorities can pursue high-quality enhanced partnerships with private operators or public ownership.

These regulations are part of the Government’s delivery of their manifesto commitment to give

“new powers for local leaders to franchise local bus services”.

Bus franchising will give communities a greater say in the services they can use, connect people to opportunities and benefit those on lower incomes, who disproportionately use buses.

This instrument implements the first stage of this process for all types of local transport authorities so that they require the Secretary of State’s consent only to proceed with the assessment. The department is also revising the bus franchising guidance to streamline the franchising process. The Government consider that this onerous process has acted as a barrier to local authorities. Removing the first stage of this process will make it easier for local transport authorities to pursue franchising if they wish to do so. The regulations improve the suite of tools on offer for local transport authorities to deliver better buses.

I am pleased to say that the statutory instrument was cleared without comment by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments. To address the only request made by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, for more information on franchising, the department is also revising its bus franchising guidance, which sets out the franchising process accessibly and in detail.

These regulations represent an important first step towards delivering on the Government’s aim of ensuring that local authorities have the tools they need to plan and deliver services in a way that suits their communities. The forthcoming buses Bill, which will be introduced later in this parliamentary Session, will build on this progress. Through this instrument and the forthcoming Bill, the Government will deliver on their plan for improving the bus network and ending the postcode lottery of bus services. The plan is centred on putting control of local bus services back into the hands of the communities that use them and will give local leaders the freedom to take decisions to deliver their local transport priorities. I beg to move.

[Lord Grayling (Con)]

My Lords, I stand to speak briefly about these regulations, as I was the Secretary of State when the original legislation was passed. While I understand what the Minister is trying to do—he comes at this, of course, from the perspective of somebody who has led the franchising operation in London—I have two big misgivings about this change.

We very consciously extended the franchising powers to the other metropolitan areas and mayoral combined authorities, believing that what was being done in London and the volume of passengers there made that a sensible and realistic option. Despite that, areas such as Manchester took several years before deciding to go down this road. Promises were made about franchising happening quickly, but it never actually did at that time. Of course, the mayoral combined authority areas have the critical mass to do this, whereas the reality is that, on the ground in other parts of the country, the idea that an alternative to what happens now is available through franchising is something of an illusion.

The reality is that local authorities in counties such as Surrey, where I was a Member of Parliament for 23 years, already plan their services because they pay for them where a gap cannot be filled commercially. It is not as if they can somehow suddenly dictate that this route happens and that route happens. Given the low level of ridership, getting any buses at all to run is a challenge and something they have to fund and develop themselves. So I do not really see how expanding franchising to counties such as Surrey will make any difference whatever. That in itself seems to make this change anything but what the Minister has just described it as. Of course, franchising is a realistic option in metropolitan areas and mayoral combined authority areas. That is why we gave that power in the first place, but I just do not see it going to other parts of the country.

I have a reservation that goes beyond simply not understanding why this is necessary. There is a danger that this will hold back the development of bus services for the future. The reason I say that is that it was clear to me during my time as Secretary of State that the future of bus travel in rural areas, in particular, is about demand-responsive buses. It is not about traditional routes going all day long from A to B and B to A. It is about buses that do different things at different times of the day, follow different routes and respond to passenger demand. Effectively, it is about Uber-type operations on a large scale, with routes changing all the time based on who wants to use them.

I do not see how demand-responsive buses fit within a franchise system. I would very much like to hear the Minister explain that to me. By definition, if you are dealing with a private operator that adapts the routes it follows all the time to reflect individual demand on individual days, which has to be the future of buses in some parts of the country, how on earth does franchising fit with that? Yet a local authority may decide on this for political reasons, for example—on the Labour side, there were great debates at the time about wanting to see local authorities have greater control over bus systems—and I fear a conflict between its desire to structure things in some areas, trying hard to do so even when it has to pay for a lot of the routes itself, and not unleashing the potential of demand-responsive buses. They will be the future of public transport in areas of the country that remain ill-served by buses, and where it is difficult to make them operate simply because the sheer demand that exists in our cities is not there.

So I would particularly probe the Minister about how he sees demand-responsive buses working within the system that these regulations create. I still think that they are not necessary. Franchising in big cities and major conurbations is fine. This feels like a set of regulations that will not achieve very much. As the notes say, there is no actual demand from non-metropolitan combined authority areas and this instrument may hold back the private sector from the kind of innovation that will be needed for the future.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the progress on franchising represented by this SI. I always felt it was a great pity that the 2017 Act made franchising so complex, so I am pleased about the removal of the first stage of the franchising process. However, I draw the attention of noble Lords to the report of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, of which I am a member. That report criticised the Explanatory Memorandum because it had little information on what franchising is and how it differs from the current situation. Also—I think this is crucial—how many local authorities are expected to adopt franchising?

I do not agree with the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Grayling, in full, but he raises an issue which relates basically to capacity. I will come back to that in a moment, but if franchising is not suitable for Surrey, why was it regarded in that 2017 legislation as acceptable for Cornwall? It is my recollection that Cornwall was allowed to franchise buses. An element of doubt is sewn in this SI in the Explanatory Note, which says that no impact assessment has been produced because the SI is not expected to have any, or any

“significant, impact on the private, voluntary or public sector”.

I find that judgment worrying, because bus franchising is a very big undertaking, a multimillion pound undertaking, and it takes a long time. I have watched Manchester, for example, struggle with franchising in producing the Bee Network over many years.

Nevertheless, despite the deficiencies in the way the SI is cast, it is welcome because it removes the first stage, as I pointed out earlier, and also because it extends bus franchising powers beyond mayoral authorities. At the time that this legislation went through this House, I questioned why, having voted, as a local authority, for an elected mayor, that made you intrinsically more capable of running the buses. It struck me as totally illogical. Not all bigger local authorities have elected mayors: I think of Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole, which is a fairly densely urban area that does not have an elected mayor.

So I am pleased that the complexity of the process is being reduced and I am pleased that it is being extended, but, in reality, the key barrier remains the capacity and expertise in our local authorities. I was pleased to read that the department is looking to build up its capacity to offer advice and assistance to local authorities, because on the ground that is what they desperately need.

When the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee asked the Department for Transport why there was no proper explanation in the Explanatory Memorandum, the department provided a very clear paragraph, which was included in our report. I recommend that noble Lords read it if they are in any doubt about the importance of this legislation.

Finally, the same legislation in the 1990s that allowed London to franchise and fatally divided the country between the bus haves and the bus have-nots also encouraged local authorities to sell their bus services and their buses and forced them to run them on a strictly commercial basis. It has interested me ever since that the few local authorities that still have bus companies and run their own buses at arm’s length are largely successful and some of the best examples of bus services in the country.

--- Later in debate ---

The noble Lord wanted to know whether there was any money to do this. The answer is that there is some money. The investment of more than £1 billion in 2025-26 to support and improve bus services and keep fares affordable is being spent not only on the national bus fare cap of £3 from 1 January 2025 but includes £640 million for local transport authorities to support and improve bus services in bus service improvement fund planning and £285 million for the bus service operators grant to continue running and protect existing services.

[Lord Grayling (Con)]

Will the Minister allow me to probe that? The Red Book shows that the Department for Transport has probably had the worst settlement in the Budget, with barely an increase in either capital or revenue budgets taking place, so is this new money?

[Lord Hendy (Lab)]

I am citing sums which are available in 2025-26. I disagree with the noble Lord in conceptual terms that it is the worst settlement for years, to paraphrase him. It is a very good settlement, bearing in mind the state of the national finances. Indeed, in real terms, local government support has gone up by 3.2%. My point is that there is enough money here to support local bus services in local transport authorities in whatever way they want to provide them, and this statutory instrument allows them to provide them in more ways than they currently can. Also, as I just said about Manchester, and as I would say about a consistent network anywhere in towns and cities in Britain, if it is provided consistently and planned rationally, revenue will go up and that virtuous circle will enable more provision.

I hope that I have answered all the points that noble Lords made, but if not, I will be delighted to write.

In conclusion, the regulations we are considering give all types of local transport authorities in England, outside London, access to powers to franchise their bus services. This Government’s plan to improve buses starts here. Our next stage of reform will be the introduction of the buses Bill. This legislation will seek to make bus franchising even easier to deliver, devolve funding and improve accessible travel. It will also improve bus services for councils that choose not to franchise. The transformative work the Government are doing will turn the tide by giving communities the opportunity to better control local bus services and have a real say in building local transport networks that work for them.

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 29th October 2024 Lords Chamber

That is why we are having this debate. Who takes precedence, and which model is right? If it is good for London, surely it is good for the rest of the country. Why can other parts of the country not be granted these freedoms? My noble friend Lord Houchen of High Leven—the Mayor of Tees Valley—and others should surely be granted that freedom to decide how their trains are run, just like in London. Do the Government think it right that London gets such empowerment and financial support that other mayors do not deserve? I know the Labour Party has scrapped levelling up and that the Minister, who I respect deeply, does not believe this, but do his colleagues in wider government believe it right that vast swathes of England outside London should, in effect, be second-class citizens?

[Lord Grayling (Con)]

My Lords, I rise briefly to support my noble friend’s amendment but perhaps from a slightly different perspective to his, given his—and indeed the Minister’s—track record, which had a strong focus on London. I believe it is very important to ensure that there is a clear explanation and, frankly, that there are detailed rules about how the interaction takes place around the London boundary, simply because there is a democratic issue here as well.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, made reference to the attempt by the mayor to take control of the Southeastern franchise some years ago. I blocked that, for two reasons. First, there was a significant level of opposition outside London to that transition taking place—the sense that the mayor should not be running services that cross into Kent, Surrey and so forth—including strong opposition from local MPs. Secondly, there is the issue of fragmentation: who operates which depot, how do you divide the franchise in half and so forth? It is important to maintain a system that is simple and as easy to run as possible.

None the less, there is and will always be an issue around how the mayoral responsibility for services that cross the boundary interacts with services operating under the control of shadow Great British Railways and subsequently Great British Railways, how they interact and work together, and how the whole system is managed. While I do not support my noble friend’s level of enthusiasm for devolution because I worry about fragmentation, it is none the less important in this new world to have very clear guidance, rules and methodology about how the system in London will operate with the system that crosses paths with it around the London boundary and, indeed, into the termini in London.

I think my noble friend has put forward an important point here. Although we have a slightly different perspective on this, I very much hope that the Government will adopt this proposal, because I think it is the right one.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill) (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by reminding the Committee that this is a short Bill, simply to bring back the national railway operations into public ownership. This is a popular policy with the public, absolutely necessary to making the railway run properly, and a necessary precursor to a more major Bill next year.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, for this amendment, which would require not a report this time—although he has sought to require many—but Statements to Parliament about the relationship between services in Greater London provided under contract to TfL and those for which the Secretary of State is responsible.

There is no reason to expect the Bill, which allows train operations to transfer from private operators into public ownership, to have any adverse effect whatever on the existing collaboration between operators and TfL. The Bill makes no change to the existing duties on the Secretary of State for Transport and on Transport for London under Section 175 of the Greater London Authority Act 1999 to co-operate and co-ordinate passenger rail services in London. Like many noble Lords in the Committee, I know from my own experience how that works. I think we can all conclude that it has worked very satisfactorily so far and there is no reason why it should not continue.

The Bill will not have any adverse effect on those services: substantially the same staff will be running those trains under public ownership on the national railway network, as they do now, so there should be no concern about a sudden deterioration of service. In fact, I expect it to improve: publicly owned operators will prioritise the interests of passengers, rather than exploiting contractual conditions in pursuit of short-term profit.

The Bill says nothing about the devolution of further passenger rail service to the Mayor of London. It would not prevent further devolution, and nothing I have said would prevent that. If they were devolved, they could be operated in the same way as the current London Overground services are operated, under a concession from Transport for London.

When I said, as the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, quoted, that there is no current plan for further devolution, that was an accurate statement. Of course, it may not be an accurate statement in the future, but when I wrote the letter to him and other noble Lords and Baronesses, it was true. We will see what happens. It is only a few weeks since what the mayor said in July and, if he does have aspirations to operate further services, I am sure there will be a cordial discussion under the auspices of Section 175 to discuss whether and how that is carried out and the costs of doing it.

The noble Lord is also mistaken on Manchester. Certainly, the evolving situation I described with the Mayor of Manchester and Transport for Greater Manchester is that services would be operated not by Network Rail, because that is currently an infrastructure provider, but by a train company. In fact, it is most likely to be Northern Trains, which is already owned by the public sector and has been for four years.

As I have already said, I give a commitment that the future, wider Bill will give a statutory role for combined authority mayors that is better than any they have now. I have just repeated it for the avoidance of doubt. In that case, it is under Section 24 of the 1993 Act. If they were to want to operate train services, this Bill does not alter Section 24 and that would be a discussion that could be had. I described the situation as I understand it currently unfolding; in fact, they do not wish to do that, but the Secretary of State could devolve more under Section 24 if she chose to.

At the moment, if I have counted correctly, the operation of rail services in London is currently the responsibility of eight different franchised operators, plus two more under contract to Transport for London. That is without the long-distance operators whose services start and finish in London but do not otherwise serve the London market directly and, indeed, Network Rail, which is responsible for the physical railway infra- structure. Public ownership and subsequent integration into Great British Railways will simplify all this by bringing the currently franchised services together in ownership in one place. If TfL wishes to discuss or influence the provision of other rail services across Greater London in the future, it will have an easier job of engaging with Great British Railways. It will be assured that the train operators that are performing will be interested in acting in the interests of passengers.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, asked where I think it is all going. I will come back and answer that on Report.

It was a pleasure to hear the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill, talking about the particular circumstances of Bexley, and it is nice to see her in her place. I do not envisage any immediate change to the railway geography of south-east London. I cannot answer for much of the rest of what she said in the way that I once could, as the commissioner of Transport for London, but I am sure that she knows where to go to make the points about the Superloop, ULEZ and the other things she referred to for the benefit of her borough of Bexley.

The noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, referred to Crossrail 2. It should be evident—I hope it is from what I have now said about Section 175—that, were Crossrail 2 to be promoted and come into effect, it would, like Crossrail 1, be complex, but the outcome would be a significant transfer of services to the mayor, because it would, and hopefully will, eventually take over some national railway services. The ease with which Crossrail has taken over former national railway services in London and transformed them into a coherent service for the benefit not only of London but the national economy would be replicated in Crossrail 2. Nothing in the Bill would change that; nor would it change the way that Crossrail was funded had it been proposed now, or the way Crossrail 2 would be funded if it were proposed in the future.

The answer to a lot of what has been said about the Overground is that the Bill primarily seeks to remedy those parts of the railway network that patently do not work well. I would contend—I have always contended in all my roles and in this one too—that the railway service in London works. It works because it is coherent, and there is no reason for the Bill to interfere with it.

I was very interested to hear from the noble Lord, Lord Grayling. I remember well his position on the devolution of Southeastern services, and he is right that many of them go well beyond the London boundary. There is a democratic issue about how well they serve the areas outside the boundary, and his recollection is correct that at the stage at which it was proposed— I recall it well because I proposed it, even if it was politically advocated by the mayor—it cost more to operate those services separately than it did together. That would be quite a good reason to think carefully about whether a proposition could now be made to do it differently. In a sense, he is making my case because one of the things that we need to have some regard to in a post-Covid railway, with less revenue but similar costs, is the cost of the whole thing. One of the reasons for the proposition in the Bill is to start to sort out the costs of the railway, increase its revenue and improve its performance.

I listened carefully to the remarks made by the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, on devolution and I intend to come back to them on Report.

The Government’s plans will improve co-operation, not hinder it, so I see no need for the statement envisaged in the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan. I am sure that all involved will work together to ensure that publicly owned and TfL services can co-exist effectively side by side. On that basis, I urge the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 21st October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, I will be brief. As the focus of this is on passenger travel and the noble Lord’s desire to put that at the centre of the objective of the Bill—which is a laudable objective shared, I am sure, by the Government—I cannot help pointing out that one of the major decisions by the last Government, which will of course affect the capacity of the railway network to deliver first-class passenger transport, was their in my view crazy decision to truncate the HS2 programme.

That programme was introduced by a Labour Government, supported by the coalition Government and by Conservative Governments over a period of about 15 years in total and at two strokes—first, getting rid of the Leeds link and, secondly, getting rid of the Manchester link—so much planning, expenditure and work was wasted. I am sure my noble friend the Minister will agree with a lot of this. It means that, among other things, the service to passengers, which is at the heart of the noble Lord’s amendment, is bound to be diminished from what it could have been. The network was there to provide passenger transport, freeing up space on the west coast mainline, which is close to, if not beyond, capacity, and helping freight as well, of course, which is a very important part of what the rail network delivers. It would have enabled that by freeing up the west coast mainline, the old mainline, if you like, built by the Victorians and still doing remarkable work, and improving the network overall.

So, when he winds up, I really would like the noble Lord to take the opportunity to apologise on behalf of the Government he served for making those nihilistic decisions to scrap that section of the railway. Ironically, in an attempt to justify the action they took, they claimed that somehow several billion pounds would be saved and one of the ways the “saved” money would be spent—I think the figure was £9 billion—would be on filling potholes. Now I am strongly in favour of filling potholes, but it will not help passenger services on the railway—which the building of the two northern legs of HS2 would have done. So, as welcome, in many ways, as his emphasis is—I do not know whether it is on behalf of the Opposition or not—on supporting and improving passenger services, that has a long way to go to make up for the damage it did by the cancellation of HS2 north.

[Lord Grayling (Con)]

My Lords, I rise along with the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, as someone who has worked closely with the new Minister. I congratulate him on his appointment. He knows more than almost anyone about our railway network—the problems, issues and challenges—and, while he may find himself on the other side of the political fence to me, he will be a great asset in trying to sort the challenges of our rail network.

He will know, very much more than anybody else, what the challenges are. He will also know, therefore, that sorting out our railways is not simply about changing the ownership structure. He knows full well, for example, that many of the issues that passengers have experienced in recent years have been laid at the foot of Network Rail—the company he chaired, although it was not his fault, of course—and rightly so. However, all of us involved bear the scars from the difficult times in 2018 with the timetable change. The noble Baroness, Lady Blake, knew well the challenges then, particularly in her role in the north. In the north, they were caused most immediately by Network Rail’s failure to deliver an electrification programme in the timetable that had been committed to, which had a dramatic knock-on effect on the rest of the railway.

Therefore, I am not clear, and it is why I have a lot of sympathy with the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, why a move of ownership is going to deliver a transformation for the passenger. I hope that the Minister, with his experience, will be able to talk a bit about that as he responds to the debate. Fundamentally, on both sides of the House, we are all about improvement for the passenger, and simply transferring ownership from public to private and private to public does not solve the challenges. Ironically, I was reading at the weekend—and I am sure it is true—that the Government are looking at bringing the private sector in to run Euston station, at the same time it is planning to take the private sector out of the railway to run the trains that go into it.

So I would be grateful if the Minister could set out why he thinks this change will deliver improvement for passengers and why, therefore, the amendment being proposed by my noble friend is wrong.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I am in the slightly unusual position of speaking to Conservative amendments that have not been spoken to already. However, I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, will correct me if I interpret them wrongly.

The noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, set out the failures of the current system. Prior to the laying of the noble Lord’s amendment, I had taken the theme of this group of Conservative amendments as displaying a welcome, if overdue, conversion on the road to Damascus. After more than a decade of increasing confusion on railway services, declining levels of passenger satisfaction and rocketing fare prices, the Conservatives are actually looking at improving public train services.

Amendment 2 touches upon something with which I definitely agree: the inevitable winding-down effect of a four to five-year transition period. As I said at Second Reading, there is bound to be an impact on staff morale and the inevitable likelihood is that the best staff will move to other industries when faced with an uncertain future. There will also, of course, be cost pressures. For example, there is bound to be a tendency to level up across very different terms and conditions from one employer to another within the train operating companies. Last week, I was speaking to some train operating companies, all of which recognised the problems that will be faced as the Government try to bring together and harmonise terms and conditions without exposing the taxpayer and the passenger to higher costs. Of course, the most obvious problem is how to deal with rest day working. I know the Minister is fully aware of the problems to which I am referring, so I will be interested in his response.

Amendment 26 refers to costs. At Second Reading, I asked questions about several issues, such as station ownership and operation, which were not really answered. I also asked about British Transport Police, which is encompassed in Amendment 40, put down by the Liberal Democrats. The Labour manifesto contained a supposedly cunning plan for low-cost nationalisation, but there are still bound to be significant costs for such obvious things as new livery and uniforms. We all look forward to an integrated fare structure; that, of course, will come with upfront costs.

Amendment 22 refers to the establishment of an independent public body to assess performance, while Amendment 21 refers to an annual report from the Secretary of State. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, will explain exactly what he is aiming at in these amendments. One of them asks for the sort of close supervision by the Department for Transport that we have had since Covid, which clearly has not worked terribly well; the other refers to a more arms-length approach. Which of those approaches does the Conservative Party in this House believe will be better?

Liberal Democrats would establish a railway agency —a nationwide public body to act as a guiding mind for the railways, putting commuters first, implementing wholesale reform of the fares system and holding train companies to account. We do not believe that the renationalisation of passenger rail will automatically deliver cheaper fares or better services. From speaking to members of the public, we have concluded that they really do not care who runs the railways; they just want cheap, efficient and reliable services.

I do not doubt the Government’s good will or their wish to make this huge change, which we all want to happen. However, as a signal of their intent and an upfront signal to the public, I hope the Minister will speak with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ensure that in next week’s Budget, we have a fare freeze and the public see from the start that there will be a difference under this Government.

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These are questions. I think that we were told about legal advice and various other things, but the truth is that legal advice is always cautious on any of those questions. What politicians have to do is to decide whether they are prepared to take a risk, and what might be the consequences of that risk. Therefore, I urge the Minister to explain to us how we can speed up this process and get it done in the interests of the public.

[Lord Grayling (Con)]

My Lords, I shall raise a question with the Minister, as we are on the subject of the termination of franchises. I should say to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord that I have been there and wanted to terminate franchises. I have never had a problem with a mixed economy, but I have an issue with a uniform economy, because I cannot understand the logic of terminating a very good private sector provider, any more than the Mayor of London believes in terminating his private provider of the London overground—and I suspect, if we see more devolution in future, other parts of the country may want to see a mixed economy as well. Clearly, the Government are very happy to see that in stations, as we learned at the weekend.

However, it is more difficult than one might wish, and as a Minister you have to take a judgment about how much legal and therefore financial risk you are willing to take, and also about the disruption that the termination brings. Nobody should be under any illusion that making a transition between two operators has to be managed extremely carefully and, done at gunpoint, can actually lead to a deterioration of services.

I come to my question to the Minister. This set of amendments discusses the process of termination of franchises and when and how they happen—the order in which they happen. My memory is that, in a private system, at the end of a franchise, there is a payment to be made by the successor franchise operator to the franchise operator handing over control of that franchise. There are various capital costs and other costs incurred. If the public sector is coming in and saying, “Right, we’re taking over the franchise”, what can the Minister tell us about that equivalent process? Will payments be made to the companies that are being phased out, as there were between private operators? What will those payments be and what will be the total cost incurred by the Government in making those payments? After all, the private operators will have invested in capital aspects, on the stations or elsewhere. Therefore, logically, the Government will also have a legal obligation to go through the kind of process that happened in the past when a franchise simply moved between two private operators. Can the Minister address that specific point in his closing remarks?

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, I honestly believe that the amendment so ably moved by the noble Baroness opposite is extremely sensible. Like her, I can see no reason why we have a chronological system for dispatching the current franchisees based on the run-out date of their particular franchise.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Grayling, I am in favour of a mixed economy. There are certain aspects of privatisation, heresy though it might sound to some of my colleagues, that were successful. The fact that some of the railway system—rail freight, for example, which rarely gets a mention in these debates—remains in the private sector is indicative of the success of those who took what was, under British Rail, a very much declining sector of the railway industry. I do not wish to do an “all our yesterdays” speech, but my recollection of the freight sector in those days is ancient wagons clanking around the system, being shunted from one marshalling yard to the next, and with an average journey speed between loading and destination of around 12 miles an hour. Since privatisation, the rail freight side has improved greatly.

To return to the very valid point made by the noble Baroness, Greater Anglia is not just a success so far as its operations are concerned; it is a financial success as well. Because of this unfortunate coincidence of the run-out date of franchises, Greater Anglia is forecast to repay to His Majesty’s Treasury around £100 million in the current financial year. As my noble friend Lord Liddle said, presumably—unless my noble friend the Minister can reassure us otherwise— we are going to dispatch Greater Anglia to the railway knacker’s yard while pursuing with Avanti Trains, as he and the noble Baroness said, a franchise operator that, quite frankly, should not be there.

The previous Government, in the run-up to the election, were stupid enough—or ideological enough, perhaps—to give Avanti an extra nine-year franchise, on the grounds that it was showing some improvement. Those of us who travelled on Avanti regularly—thankfully, it is an experience that is now behind me since I moved home—could not find any improvement whatever. Indeed, it seemed to me that the service was deteriorating on an annual basis.

Again, it might be heretical for some of my colleagues to hear this, but aspects of the passenger railway that were privatised were successful. At Second Reading, I mentioned Chiltern Railways. Thanks to the financial constraints that British Rail had to operate under as a nationalised industry, Marylebone station was proposed to be a coach station by Sir Alfred Sherman, if I remember rightly, Mrs Thatcher’s transport guru at the time. The existing railway management, again through no fault of their own but because of financial constraints, had to run the service from Marylebone down, single much of the line and reduce the overall train service. Under the able leadership of the late Adrian Shooter, and with a long-term franchise of 20 years, with various break-off points, my noble friend Lord Prescott and the then chief executive of the Strategic Rail Authority came up with this 20-year franchise, but insisted that not only had the service to be improved but some of the infrastructure had to be restored. Under Chiltern Railways, lines that had become single were redoubled, and a pretty poor commuter rail service now has two trains an hour as far as Birmingham—with a price, incidentally, as my noble friend Lord Liddle might be interested to know, which considerably undercuts the fare of Avanti trains.

There are aspects of the future of the railway industry where a mixed economy would make some sense. I hope that, in those circumstances, my noble friend the Minister will look with some degree of favour on the noble Baroness’s amendment.

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[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for explaining their amendments in this group, which consider some of the practical aspects of the Government’s plans to transfer services to public ownership. Amendments 1 and 48 focus on the contractual arrangements that allow the Secretary of State to terminate a franchise early, following a breach of contract or other sustained poor performance. I make it absolutely clear that this Government will not hesitate to act decisively where an operator’s unacceptable performance means that the contractual conditions for early termination are met. The Secretary of State has made this plain on a number of occasions and I am happy to reiterate it to your Lordships today.

However, I am very much afraid that the terms of the contracts we have inherited from the previous Government do not make this easy. It is far easier for an operator to return the contract to the Government than it is for the Government to take back a contract for poor performance. It is deeply regrettable that in the past couple of years, some of the poorest performing operators have been awarded the longest contracts.

Noble Lords will not be surprised to know that we have looked very hard at the form of the contract. We are closely monitoring train operators’ compliance with their contract, but at present we are not in a position—with any operator—where the Secretary of State has a contractual right to terminate for poor performance. Noble Lords might be amazed to know that Avanti has not yet triggered the need for a remedial plan, although it may well do so. While CrossCountry has triggered the need for a remedial plan, we need to let that work through, together with the timetable reduction that the Secretary of State was deeply reluctant to agree to, before we discover whether its performance then merits some further contractual remedy.

Unless and until that contractual right arises, the only sensible approach is to transfer services to public ownership when the existing contracts expire. Any other approach would require taxpayers to foot the bill for compensation to operators in return for ending their contracts early, which the Government made clear in our manifesto that we would avoid, if only because of the state of the public finances we inherited.

I have also heard representations on behalf of operators—or, rather, their owners—that, rather than transferring services as contracts expire, we should leave their services in private hands for as long as possible. All the owning groups knew of these dates and would have planned financially for them in any event. The concern seems to be that service quality will suddenly collapse, or that current plans for service improvements, or for the rollout of new train fleets, will suddenly grind to a halt.

There is no basis for these claims. DOHL is experienced in transferring services into the public sector smoothly and without disruption, as it has proved in the difficult aftermath of past franchise failures. As services transfer, the same trains will be operated by the same staff as before, and no doubt often by the same management, as happened with LNER six years ago. The improvements that are already in train will continue. I have no reason to think that performance will deteriorate. Extending specific operators’ tenure will simply delay the process of bringing services back to public ownership, where they belong, and the financial savings that will result.

In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Grayling, while there have been transfer costs from franchise to franchise, he will of course recognise that the incoming franchisee would not pay that cost gratuitously; they would simply add it to the subsidy bill for the franchise they were inheriting. In the end, the public sector pays, as it has always done. In fact, since Covid, the operators have not funded anything at all, so the quantum in the future is likely to be extremely limited.

[Lord Grayling (Con)]

I would like some clarification from the Minister on that point. Has the department added up that liability? Does he have a total number for the transfer into the public sector of all the franchises?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The answer to the noble Lord is: not yet. He will recognise that those costs materialise only when the franchise transfers, so the department will never have had that total number in the past, and I do not expect it to have it now. As the franchises transfer, the number will become obvious.

Aviation, Travel and Tourism Industries

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Thursday 10th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Robert Courts]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for raising that point and appreciate that it is one on which many hon. Members will want an answer. We have always been clear that we could use the green watch list where we were able to do so. We have equally always been clear that when the evidence requires us to take swift action, we will do that, because the public would expect us to take action to protect public health, which is what we did in that instance.

As recommended in the Global Travel Taskforce report, the Government’s approach will be assessed on 28 June, 31 July and 1 October. This is to ensure that the measures and the approach in place are still adequate, that they are relevant, and that they are efficient. Of course, the first of those review points comes up at the end of this month.

The GTT report included a commitment for the Government to produce a tourism recovery plan, as was reiterated in the 22 February road map. That tourism recovery plan will set out the transformation and growth of the sector over the next five years as part of our economic recovery. The plan will address both the short-term and medium-term issues affecting the sector, such as bringing back consumer demand and supporting businesses as they reopen. We also wanted to set the sector on a long-term path to support delivery of the Government’s wider objectives, such as levelling up, strengthening our Union, and enhancing growth and productivity. We want to future-proof the tourism sector. We are determined to see the development of a more sustainable, innovative and data-driven tourism industry.

As we return to travelling, building consumer confidence is key. On 17 May, we published a passenger covid-19 charter that sets out consumer rights and responsibilities while restrictions are still in place, alongside the Government’s expectations of the businesses in the sector. In the meantime, we will be regularly reviewing travel measures, taking into account the latest domestic and international data. The system we have designed will be adaptable to the evolving epidemiological picture, and the Government must of course be prepared to take action at any time to protect public health.

[Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con)]

My hon. Friend mentioned that the Government plan two or three further checkpoints during the summer. Is he actually saying, as he talks about consumers and recovery, that if a destination is not placed on the green list or the amber list by 31 July, it cannot be reopened to travel before 31 October?

[Robert Courts]

If I have understood my right hon. Friend’s question correctly, the position is that we continue to assess all the measures that apply in terms of policy at the checkpoint reviews. Similarly, we look approximately every three weeks at which countries fall into which list. When I talked about consumer confidence in the charter, I was referring to the rights that consumers have and the responsibilities of those in the industry. I hope that I understood his question correctly; if not, I will come back to it later.

In the last couple of minutes, I would like to say a little bit about our priorities for the future of aviation. The UK has a proud history at the forefront of global aviation. It provides hundreds of thousands of jobs and billions of pounds to the UK’s GDP and tax revenues—money that is invested back into our vital national services. We are working on a strategic framework that will focus on building back better and ensure a successful UK aviation sector for the future. That framework will set out a plan for a return to growth of the aviation sector, and it will include consideration of workforce and skills, Union connectivity, noise, innovation, regulation and consumer issues. The strategy will complement the Government’s net zero aviation strategy. It will consider the critical role that aviation plays in growing the UK’s global reach and we will publish it by the end of the year.

The measures I have outlined demonstrate how determined the Government are to support this vital industry as we start to rebuild the economy. I am a Minister in the Department for Transport. By definition, I want to see people travelling, and I want to see people flying. I want a thriving aviation industry. I want to welcome people back to our shores to enjoy the delights our country has to offer, and I want our people to be able to explore the wonders of the world. But we cannot and will not rush this, and we cannot and will not undermine our hard-won progress. If we move too quickly—recklessly, even—we could throw away our progress and take us all, including the travel, tourism and aviation industries, back to square one. The best way to support our aviation, travel and tourism industries is to resolutely follow the vaccine roll-out, return life to normality and allow these industries once again to soar.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Gavin Newlands]

I would love to, but I am extremely pressed for time so I will crack on.

Given the time constraints I just mentioned, my hon. Friend the Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (John Nicolson) will make more comment on the tourism sector in his speech.

I think we all accept that the very nature of the pandemic has meant that reaction to events has had to be quick, changing in some cases day to day based on epidemiological evidence. Believe it or not from my tone sometimes, I am sympathetic to the pressures on Ministers and officials who have had to deal with the pandemic day to day and hour by hour, taking decisions with massive consequences for our economy and society. It has to be said though that the Government’s conduct in preventing the further importation of the delta variant was nothing short of a disgrace.

It is difficult to work out whether irresponsible delays in reintroducing travel restrictions to and from India while case numbers were surging were down to governmental desperation and self-interest while trying to set up a trade deal that would not be necessary if the kamikaze mission of Brexit had not been set in motion, or just sheer incompetence. Whatever the real reason, the result has been the importation of delta cases that could have been prevented had timeous action been taken or, indeed, had the UK Government just followed the advice provided on hotel quarantine, as the Scottish Government did. The UK Government even refused to help identify passengers in England travelling on to Scotland so that they could also be required to enter quarantine hotels. We can see the result of that approach right now in the rising delta caseload.

Although some restrictions on air travel are still necessary, aviation more than any other sector needs help and support from the state at this time of emergency. Unbelievably, we are still waiting for the type of sector-specific support promised by the Chancellor right at the start of the pandemic. Even with the limited fiscal and constitution levers at their disposal, the Scottish Government stepped up immediately and provided more targeted support to aviation businesses than the UK through extending 100% business rates relief for the whole of last year, and now for this financial year, too. In contrast, when the UK Government finally followed suit, they did so in a much more limited way when it came to eligibility and capping that support. They have also failed to match the additional year’s support, extending the limited scheme by only six months, a position that will surely have to change should their policies continue.

In a coup de grâce, the Government also saw fit to remove the extra statutory concession that had provided vital retail revenue for airports across the country and that was of particular importance outside London and the south-east. That decision has already resulted in dozens of retail outlets closing and hundreds of jobs going from airport retail in Scotland alone. The impact of that lost revenue will not only be felt in retail operations; the income was used to cross-subsidise a huge amount of airport operations, including attracting new routes and retaining old ones. In short, the decision is a hugely myopic one that I hope the Treasury will reverse.

We might think that that was plenty for the industry to be dealing with, but there is always one more thing with this Government, particularly if it involves Brexit. UK airlines have been put at a competitive disadvantage versus their EU counterparts when it comes to cargo and chartered routes. In terms of traffic rights, we—in the form of the Civil Aviation Authority—are very quick to grant rights to other European airlines, but the same reciprocity does not occur in many European countries. That clearly makes it much more difficult for UK-based airlines to secure contracts. Indeed, nothing makes that point more starkly than the fact that the Ministry of Defence has given a contract to transport UK armed forces personnel to a Polish airline, bailed out by a Polish Government, which we have quickly given rights to fly. All the while, UK aircraft remain grounded and the air crews and associated personnel remain furloughed at the taxpayer’s expense.

So much for taking back control. This is yet another Brexit dividend from people who brought us the sunny uplands—the same uplands our hill farmers are currently wrestling with. This is no way to secure an aviation sector, or the hundreds of thousands of jobs that directly and indirectly rely on it in the short or long term. Building capacity and sustainability in the long term has to be the priority for Government and the industry once the worst of the pandemic is over.

I have lost count of the number of times that regional connectivity has been raised with Ministers in this place. Our economies and wider communities are being held back and damaged by the UK’s over-centralising, decades-old policy of reliance on London and the south-east as gateways to the rest of Europe and the world. Regional connectivity is needed if we are to attract visitors and tourists over the coming months as restrictions are lifted. Although VisitScotland, the Scottish Government and the tourism and hospitality industries are all working hard to restart the sector, the fact is that visitors need to be able to get here in the first place.

We have now been waiting 17 months for the regional connectivity review. Local economies need that review to report, and to report now. There is no time to lose for communities that stand to be frozen out of recovery and see jobs and prosperity disappear for want of any strategy or plan from the Government. It must be remembered that for regional airports, Flybe’s collapse was a hammer-blow that preceded the pandemic. Even without covid-19, we would still be facing the same substantial challenges and, I rather suspect, the same lack of action from the Government.

I must make an uncharacteristically positive point. With the demise of Flybe, Loganair is now the UK’s largest regional airline. The airline is based in my constituency, and I was very proud to see the announcement this morning that it was the UK’s first regional airline to become carbon-neutral. I congratulate it on that initiative.

In conclusion, I go back to the gravity of the situation. The lack of action that I have spoken of has extended to sector-specific support, business rates relief and airport retail. Even at this stage, I still urge the Government belatedly to follow up on their promises with action. As the Minister himself has said, pre pandemic the country’s aviation sector was the third biggest. The Government’s inaction has ensured that it will not be, as we move out of the situation. It is time to listen to the industry and our aviation communities and map a future that ensures sustainability, economic growth and job security.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con)]

I listened carefully to the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Robert Courts). He is a good man and a good minister. I know he does not share the Government’s universal view, but today we need him, and his colleagues in the Department and elsewhere across Government, really to step up the pressure on the places where the problems really are.

People in the Department of Health and in the public health world have done a fantastic job in many respects in the past 12 months—the vaccination programme is something of which we should all be proud—but they do not understand the business model of the travel sector, and the decisions they are taking are going to cost hundreds of thousands of jobs, put businesses out of business and leave the sector decimated. The Minister talked about the future of the aviation sector. Well, there is not going to be one if we do not get this resolved pretty quickly.

I was disturbed to hear the Health Secretary talk about getting international travel back up and running in the medium term. That is not good enough. We had an approach. We had a green list. The Joint Biosecurity Centre recommended putting Malta, for example, on the green list. Are we flying to Malta? No. That is inexplicable and indefensible, and it has got to stop. If a country is recommended as safe to fly to, we should be able to travel to it.

We also have an amber list. We are told that we can fly to countries on the amber list, but we have to quarantine when we get back, but we are also told that we should not go on holiday to them. Well, I am afraid that I simply disagree with that. My view is very clear: if people are willing to travel to a country on the amber list, for whatever reason, and if they are willing to follow the rules on self-isolation when they get back, they should be free to travel there. I simply disagree with Ministers who say, “We don’t want you to travel to an amber list country for a holiday.” We want the industry to recover. If people are willing to follow the rules around quarantining, they should be free to travel wherever they wish, and I think they should do so.

If we do not take steps as quickly as possible—the default really has to be that we open up places as soon as they are safe—we are going to see this industry decimated. We now need a much, much, much less risk-averse approach to international travel. We need a proper road map back into operation for the sector. What are the milestones? When can we open up amber countries to the green list? When can people start travelling freely without quarantining? What are the milestones that have to be reached to achieve that? We have done that domestically; let us now do it internationally and let us do it pretty quickly.

If we do not, the situation is very clear. We had a lively debate in this place on Monday about whether we could afford an extra aid budget. The argument the Government put forward is that the public finances are under huge pressure, and they are right. But they are going to be under even bigger pressure if we do not sort this sector out, because it will make no money until 2022 and we will have a straight choice: either we bail it out to the tune of billions of pounds more, or next year we will have no airlines, closed airports, and lots of little businesses like the one we just heard about in north London will have disappeared. That is not what I want, so my message to Ministers is: get this done; sort it out; get that road map in place; and start to take a less risk-averse approach.

Aviation Industry

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the future of the aviation industry.

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. Before I start my remarks, I offer my congratulations to the Minister on his recent appointment. He was a very good member of the Select Committee and he is a very welcome addition to this role, even if the challenges he faces in it are pretty big at the moment. I wish him well.

The aviation industry is a vital part of our economy. It employs—or rather it did employ—hundreds of thousands of people around the country. It is an essential part of regional economies, which is why we see colleagues from around the United Kingdom here today, and it provides vital connections from the United Kingdom around the world. Today, it is a sector on its knees. Last weekend, I cast a quick glance at the Plane Finder app that some of us have on our phones. That afternoon, there were three aircraft in the air over the south of England—just three aircraft, and one of those was en route from France to the United States.

That is a disaster for this country. It is a disaster for all the staff and airline personnel who have lost their jobs, a disaster for the airport services companies and all their people, and a disaster for the suppliers to the industry, such as the catering services firms and the construction workers, who should be preparing to work on capital investment projects at our airports in the coming months but capital budgets have evaporated. They now face a bleak year ahead. The entire future of individual UK airlines is now under threat, and of course there is the broader issue of the impact on the aerospace sector as a whole.

We all accept that there was no way this pandemic could have passed without a major impact on aviation, but taking every step we can to mitigate that impact has been, should be, and must now be a national priority. However, as a loyal supporter of the Government who is sympathetic to them about the challenge they are trying to deal with, I must say that it does not feel like that at the moment. Public Health England, for example, produced what can only be described as highly questionable figures to justify the current restrictions. Only a couple of weeks ago, a Government Minister told the House of Lords that it is the view of the chief medical officer that travel is not a priority.

Although I really do understand the huge challenges that our medical community is facing, and they are doing a fantastic job in dealing with this pandemic, I fundamentally disagree with their view on this point about the sector. I urge the Government to change tack, to make at least the start of the reopening of our aviation sector an absolute priority and to use all the tools at their disposal to do so. That does not mean a mass opening of borders overnight, nor an instant return to mass holidays, but it does mean making a rapid move to restart key economic routes and to allow the return of travel without unnecessary restrictions to low-risk destinations.

The first key step that must be taken is to replicate what other countries are doing on testing. The current UK rules are simply too restrictive for low-risk destinations. I very much hope that the reports in the media about a reduction of the two-week quarantine rules are correct, but a decision to travel that still includes a period of several days when someone cannot leave their home, makes an important business trip, a short family holiday or a visit to an elderly relative in another country extremely difficult. Other countries are not asking for the same period of isolation.

I applaud my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary for the work he has done in expanding our test capabilities to the extent he has; it has been a phenomenal achievement and he deserves huge personal credit for that expansion. We have now by far the largest testing capability and the broadest range of testing capacity in Europe—well done. But if we can test the whole population of Liverpool quickly and effectively, why can we not open a handful of key economic routes quickly using those same technologies?

Why can we not reopen routes to New York and Washington, for example, setting aside the quarantine rules for those people who travel those routes and test negatively? Those are blue-chip routes for our industry; they deliver the highest level of profits and they are particularly vital for our economy. Are we really going to be putting the health of the country at risk by introducing the same kind of test rules that exist in other countries today and putting the same measures in place for those key routes?

Sir Edward, you or I could fly to Madeira tomorrow, taking with us a 72-hour-old test certificate. We would be allowed to enter the country freely, travel around and enjoy our visit. There is not a massive epidemic of the virus in Madeira. Why can we not apply the same rules for those key international destinations here?

The industry is starting to take steps itself. Heathrow airport, for example, is now providing travel to destinations such as Hong Kong, Cairo, Bahrain, the Seychelles, Japan, Italy and South Africa and pre-departure testing at the airport. The average turnaround time for test results is 67 minutes, and travellers have a certificate they can take with them to prove they have tested negative that same day.

British Airways is showing how it could be done on transatlantic routes by starting voluntary testing on key routes to the United States. Why not make those approaches official? Does anybody seriously think that that would be a less effective way of screening for risk than the current system, when it is patently clear, I am afraid, that many people are not following the self-isolation rules anyway? Allowing testing and restriction-free entry to the UK for those with negative results could unlock key routes and start the long rebuild of this vital industry.

I am not going to speak for long because many people want to contribute, but my message to the Minister is very simple; I also have one for the industry itself. Introducing airport testing and accepting a risk-based approach—which all the evidence suggests is low—is the easiest way to rebuild confidence in the airline industry and save jobs. That is the crucial piece: ultimately, the issue is about the welfare and employment of our fellow citizens. It is vital that we do this. Are we really going to continue to stand aside while entire airports risk closure and entire airlines risk disappearing? We have to act, and act now.

There is another issue for us as a Government and a nation. The first of January marks our first day outside the ambit of the European Union. The transition period will have ended and the post-Brexit world will begin—whatever the result of the negotiations. On the first day of global Britain, will there really be only three planes in the sky over the south-east of England? Will our global hub airport, and airports such as Manchester, Leeds, Bradford, Bristol, Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Cardiff, all be operating at a tiny fraction of their capacity? These are our global connections and have to be back in place for Britain in a global world post Brexit. For the sake of our economy, jobs and future role in that post-Brexit world, my message to Ministers is to make airport testing, and the flexibility that should come with it, the urgent priority that it should be.

One final word for the industry is that recovery must come and we have to do everything we can to make sure that it does, but it has to come with an eye for the future. I want to see that Plane Finder app full again, but aviation must rebuild with a focus on the environment as well. There is no magic technology solution that will make it a net-zero sector by 2050, although I welcome today’s announcements about support for improved technology in the sector.

I am hopeful that, before too long, hydrogen will power some short-haul planes, that all airports will have electric and hydrogen vehicles on their entire premises and that new technology for engines will continue to bring down emissions. I also believe that the industry needs to strengthen its offsetting strategy further to reduce its environmental impact. The Carbon Offsetting and Reduction Scheme for International Aviation, or CORSIA, was a start, but is a long way from what is needed and is too remote a concept for consumers starting to worry about whether they can, or should, fly in the future. That is a big item on the agenda for the industry.

Immediately and over the next few weeks, the priority has to be getting planes flying again; the environmental strategy is a challenge we should be thinking about now, but the priority is that. That first task lies with the Government. My message to the Minister, to the great team at my old Department and particularly to the Department of Health is that we need airport testing and a regime that allows the industry to start to recover. Quarantine is killing it, and it will kill the first few months of global Britain. Things have to change, and they have to start changing right now.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

I applaud all the contributions to the debate from Members from all parts of the House, and I hope that our comments are listened to more widely than simply in this room. I do not seek to challenge the Minister. He is new to his job, and he faces some of the same challenges as others in similar positions in Departments across Government. These are not decisions that are being taken in the Department for Transport, but there is an expectation in this room that action will come more quickly than the official Government line has suggested.

I do not understand why a 72-hour test prior to departure, coupled with a check-up test on arrival in the UK, represents a greater risk than the 14-day quarantine. Given the urgency of the situation that the aviation sector faces, I do not really understand why the global taskforce has not reported already. I hope it will be understood clearly elsewhere in Government that that must happen, and it must happen now.

However, those are not things that I level at the Minister. He has been a great champion of the sector, and I know he will be a very effective aviation Minister. I know that he will do everything he can to unlock the challenges that the industry faces and put it back on a path to recovery. The message from everyone in this room to the Government is this: we cannot afford to let the sector carry on dying on its feet. Every action possible must be taken across Government to enable the industry to recover. Whether we are a former Minister, a Select Committee Chair or member, or an Opposition spokesperson, we will all be watching carefully. This will not be the last time we raise the issue, if the problem is not solved.

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).

[Sir Edward Leigh (in the Chair)]

I suspend the sitting for two minutes to allow for safe exit.

Aviation Sector

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con)]

May I start by welcoming the Minister to his post? He is a welcome addition to the Department for Transport team. When I left the Department 14 months ago, I resolved that I would not speak in this place about transport issues for a while, because it felt appropriate not to tread on the toes of my successor. I am here today because I believe passionately that this is an issue that must be addressed, and quickly. This is a crucial industry not just at our airports, but across our country for a whole range of businesses and a whole of people whose livelihood depends upon it.

I echo the comments of the former Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), on the importance of testing. This has to be the way forward. It is vital for the industry not only that we get short-haul flights moving again, but that we open up transatlantic routes, which are fundamentally important to the industry. We can only do that through testing. I cannot understand why we are not at the very least trailing testing on a number of routes to demonstrate where the issues are. My message to the Minister—and, through him, to all those on the Treasury Bench, in No. 10, in No. 11 and elsewhere in Government—is that we have got to do this, and we have got to do it now. There is absolutely no reason why a regime of trial testing in this country could not be introduced in a few days, or why the results could not be carefully monitored on selected routes to give us a blueprint to take things forward. We must do this, and we must do it now.

We also have the issue of our airports. Our airports, and many of the businesses that support them, are operating at a fraction of their normal capacity because the Government are telling them that they have to do so. In that situation, we cannot apply the normal regulatory regime. For example, we cannot tell our airports to pay their full business rates when the Government are telling them not to operate their business. This autumn we have to take a pragmatic and realistic approach for the businesses affected.

[Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend share my view that much of the real pain of this situation will be felt by our smaller regional airports across the country, which will play a vital role in helping our nation recovery from the current situation? Will he join me in urging the new Minister—I, too, am delighted to see him in his place—that bringing forward the review of regional connectivity should be at the top of his to-do list?

[Chris Grayling]

I absolutely agree, because this is not actually about our principal airports; it is about the regional airports, which are the cornerstone of their local economies. Heathrow airport will be there in 10 years’ time whatever happens, but we cannot say the same of our regional airports, which are facing a financial crisis as we go through this pandemic. We cannot expect it to be business as usual for the taxes they pay, the regulations they follow and so on. A sensible series of steps will have to be taken this autumn to ensure that those businesses are still here in a year’s time when this crisis begins to abate, as we all hope it will.

I also want to echo some of the comments of the Chair of the Select Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman). It is inevitable, sadly, that there will be job losses as a result of what is happening at the moment. I wish it were otherwise—we all wish it were otherwise—but it is not. However, it must also be the case that every airline should strain every sinew to ensure that they protect as many jobs as they can, because these are the people on whom those airlines and airports will depend as they seek to rebuild their business, hopefully in 2021. So my message to all those employers is: do what you have to do to keep your businesses afloat, so that there is still an employer there, but do not go beyond what you need to do to deliver that recovery. That would be absolutely the wrong thing to do in this incredibly difficult time for our country.

We must also consider the broader sector, because this is not just about airlines and airports. It is about a whole range of other businesses, including the suppliers to the aviation sector, the firms that make the planes, parts of planes and equipment at our airports, and the travel businesses, large and small, that depend on this sector.

[Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend is making an important point about the broader sector, because across the north of England and north Wales, a huge amount of the supply chain for the airline sector and the people who actually make the planes is really vulnerable at the moment, including Gardner Aerospace in my constituency, which is at risk of losing half its staff. So this is a really important point for the Government to take away from this: this is a much broader sectoral issue.

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[Chris Grayling]

These are crucial points. If we are seriously to rebalance our economy, we cannot afford to lose some of the fine manufacturing businesses in my hon. Friend’s constituency and elsewhere that service our aerospace sector so well and make it at such a fundamentally important part of the manufacturing side of our economy.

Of course, the Government can do something in this field because as a nation we procure, for military and civil purposes, a significant amount of equipment. This autumn, as we go into the Budget round and look to step up capital spending to help us through the recovery, we have the ability to take procurement decisions that will help the businesses in my hon. Friend’s constituency and others. My message to Ministers would be that, as we look at how best to take ourselves through the recovery, the purchasing power they have to invest in equipment that we will need for the future could make a real difference if they were to bring forward some of those orders now.

My final point is that we absolutely have to rebuild the sector, get these businesses going again and get people flying again, but there is also a duty on the industry and all of us to ensure that it is, as far as is possible, a green recovery. There is no simple way of solving the environmental impact of the aviation sector. It cannot suddenly become net zero or green overnight, but it has to take steps in the right direction, whether through the electrification of airports, the reduction of fuel consumption of planes or other methods that can make the industry less environmentally impactful. My message to the industry and to the Government is that they should work together to ensure that the industry really is on the mend and that we get people flying again, but do so in the most environmentally sustainable way possible. This is a crucial industry, and it must get back to something like normal, but it needs to do so in a way that is consistent with all our futures.

Covid-19: Aviation

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I think I have outlined the point quite clearly, and I have answered a number of questions in the same vein. I will continue to do what I can to make organisations in the sector aware that we would rather they used the unprecedented Government support available to them before making redundancies. I absolutely understand the concerns of the workers affected, and we will continue to look at all the options we as a Government have to make use of.

[Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con)]

I also represent a number of the British Airways employees affected, and I am grateful to the Minister for her commitment to keep pressurising the airline to try to minimise the number of job cuts. Indeed, I would encourage her to do that not simply with British Airways, but with all the other airlines affected. This sector is the busiest and biggest of its kind in Europe in normal times, and it is crucial to our economy. Can I ask her to work with the Chancellor, as he comes to his next financial statement during the course of this year, to look at a longer-term recovery plan for the sector that goes beyond the immediate Government support and actually sets a path that can put this sector back where it should be, which is at the top of the European league table?

Crossrail

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd July 2019 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

It has been a challenging year for the Crossrail project. Since August 2018 when Crossrail Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for London (TfL), announced that the opening of the Elizabeth line through central London would be delayed, the project has been fully reviewed and reset.

Crossrail Ltd, TfL and the Department for Transport (DfT) have taken significant action in response to issues raised in the independent reviews by KPMG, as well as the reports from the National Audit Office, the Public Accounts Committee and the London Assembly’s Transport Committee. Lessons have been learned and Crossrail Ltd and both project sponsors, DfT and TfL, remain fully committed to the completion of the project which will transform London rail transport, and carry around 200 million passengers per year.

Actions taken this year have included:

The commissioning and completion of two wide-ranging and detailed independent reviews into the project’s governance, and commercial and financial agreements, with all recommendations acted upon by June 2019.

The agreement in December 2018 to an additional £2.15 billion financing package to deliver the final stages of the project in a way that is fair to the UK taxpayer.

The appointment of a new executive leadership team within Crossrail Ltd, a review of the organisational structure to ensure maximum efficiency, and the strengthening of the Crossrail board to ensure the right skills are in place right across the organisation and its board.

The announcement in April 2019 of a revised schedule which confirmed a six month window for delivery of the central tunnel section between Abbey Wood and Paddington, not including Bond Street, with a mid-point in December 2020, with more certainty to follow as testing progresses.

The publication in April 2019 of a joint report by the Department for Transport and the infrastructure projects authority (IPA) on lessons learned from the sponsorship of major projects including Crossrail.

Despite the challenges, the project has seen some key achievements during this year. Main dynamic testing of the trains commenced in January, and Crossrail Ltd recently achieved a further milestone with the commencement of close-headway testing of multiple trains in June.

Fifteen new Class 345 trains are in operation on the eastern and western parts of the route, building reliability and achieving a high standard of performance. Testing of the trains in the Heathrow tunnels is continuing and a TfL Rail service between Paddington and Reading is planned to commence in December of this year. This will be another important stepping stone to the opening of the full railway as soon as possible after the central section is completed.

The Network Rail (NR) On Network works on the eastern and western sections of the Crossrail route are well advanced. Over the past year, work completed has included the installation of the steelwork for new accessible footbridges, stairs and lift shafts at Ealing Broadway, West Ealing and Acton Main Line. The contracts to build and upgrade six ticket halls between Acton Main Line and West Drayton have been awarded, and the new ticket halls at Forest Gate and Gidea Park have now opened to the public.

Updated costings for Network Rail’s programme show that the costs are now forecast at around £2.8 billion. The additional costs are the result of some work taking longer than planned and have been managed by Network Rail from within its own internal budgets. No further funding has been provided from Government, and this has not had an impact on any other programmes.

Further details on Crossrail Limited’s funding and finances in the period to 29 May 2019 are set out in the table below.

The coming months will be critical for the project as Crossrail Ltd work to complete the installation and integration of the tunnel, stations and signalling systems, and Network Rail continue their works on surface sections of the route. It remains a hugely complex project and uncertainty and risk remains across the programme, with significant testing and integration work remaining. The new leadership team has committed to being fully open and transparent as it works through the final stages of the project, which is supported by the Department and TfL. However, it is positive that Crossrail Ltd now has a new plan in place to complete the outstanding works and bring the Elizabeth line into passenger service at the earliest possible date. When complete, the Elizabeth line will transform the rail network in London, reducing overcrowding and increasing central London rail capacity by 10%.

During the passage of the Crossrail Bill through Parliament, a commitment was given that an annual statement would be published until the completion of the construction of Crossrail, setting out information about the project’s funding and finances. The relevant information is as follows:

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Grayling Excerpts

Thursday 18th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

1. What recent assessment he has made of progress on improving the A417 missing link between Brockworth and Cowley; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

I have taken a personal interest in this project, which I regard as an important part of our infrastructure that needs to be addressed, and my hon. Friend will be pleased to know that it is moving forward. Highways England announced its preferred route for the scheme in March, and it is now preparing for the next stage of the planning process, statutory consultation, followed by a development consent order process.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

Sadly, there have been 10 fatalities and 123 casualties on that road in the last four years for which figures are available, so the improvement is desperately needed. Has my right hon. Friend had the chance to evaluate the Labour party’s proposals to scrap the roads programme, which would mean hundreds of road schemes such as this never being built and motorists being hugely inconvenienced?

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[Hon. Members]

Hear, hear!

[Chris Grayling]

Labour Members say “Hear, hear!” because they do not want to hear the truth, which is that we are putting in place schemes that will benefit road safety, that will improve journey times and that will be good for our economy. The A417 improvement is a much needed scheme that does all those things, and it will be an essential part of this Government’s future planning. It is simply a tragedy that Labour wants to scrap it.

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[Ruth George (High Peak) (Lab)]

8. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of the strategic road network between Manchester and Sheffield.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

I absolutely accept that we need to improve the route between Manchester and Sheffield, and, indeed, we need to provide additional crossing points across the Pennines generally. That is why, in relation to the hon. Lady’s area, we have announced a £170 million package of improvements to the existing road link, including projects such as the Mottram moor link, to reduce congestion and improve safety and journey times. Construction on that will start next year. We are also going to smart-motorway the M62, and you will be aware, Mr Speaker, that we have started work on the dualling of the A66 further north. We are looking into ways to improve the links between east Lancashire and west Yorkshire and working with Transport for the North on the proposed trans-Pennine tunnel.

[Ruth George]

The Secretary of State’s confirmation of those projects is welcome, but fixing the strategic gap in economic productivity between Manchester and Sheffield will require a strategic road investment between the two cities, as Transport for the North has identified. Is the Secretary of State committing to prioritise that gap to unlock the potential £20 billion of economic productivity that could be unleashed?

[Chris Grayling]

I am clear that we need to deliver a much upgraded strategic road between Manchester and Sheffield—there is no doubt about that at all—as we do further north between east Lancashire and west Yorkshire, and further north still between Cumbria and Teesside, so I absolutely accept the hon. Lady’s point. She might, though, like to have a gentle word with her Front-Bench colleagues, who, of course, have committed to scrap the road improvement schemes that we have in the pipeline.

[Lee Rowley (North East Derbyshire) (Con)]

As someone whose constituency borders the city of Sheffield, I say to the Minister that we need to get economic productivity moving in our areas, as was outlined by the hon. Member for High Peak (Ruth George). Does he agree that, for communities such as Barrow Hill and Staveley, the Staveley bypass, which is 90 years in the asking, would be a great idea for Chesterfield and North East Derbyshire?

[Chris Grayling]

I know that my hon. Friend is seeking funding from the housing infrastructure fund for that scheme. I have been to the area and seen what is needed. I think that it is a very good scheme, and I hope that his application is successful. The reality is that, if we are to drive economic growth in the northern part of the country, we need road improvements. Those who argue against road improvements are letting down the north.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

I declare an interest as a metro mayor. My hon. Friend the Member for High Peak (Ruth George) is absolutely right: the connectivity, both road and rail, between south Yorkshire and Greater Manchester is not fit for the 21st century. The 30 miles between Sheffield and Manchester is just about the longest 30 miles anywhere in England. It is good to hear from the Secretary of State that investment and work are taking place to address that, but does he agree that there is still more that we can do to improve that connectivity across the Pennines?

[Chris Grayling]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman: that route needs to improve; the M62 needs to improve; and the proposals for the trans-Pennine tunnel need to be taken forward. On rail, the Hope Valley line needs to be upgraded and then, of course, Northern Powerhouse Rail and the network that that will create, and the links that HS2 will bring, will be essential to unlocking the potential of Sheffield and the area around it.

[Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab)]

9. What steps he is taking to decarbonise road transport.

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[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

11. What recent assessment he has made of the potential effect of the use of fuel catalysts on vehicle emissions.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

As one of the ways in which we can reduce emissions of both carbon and other substances emitted from motor vehicles, the potential benefits of fuel additives and catalysts are certainly an area of great interest. Clearly, we need to be certain that there is scientific evidence about whether an individual additive makes a difference or not, but I have tasked my officials with looking clearly at the issue again to see what additions to our fuel can make a difference in the immediate future.

[Robert Halfon]

May I briefly thank the Secretary of State for giving us junction 7A on the M11, for which we campaigned in Harlow for more than 30 years?

The all-party parliamentary group on fair fuel for UK motorists and UK hauliers is shortly to publish a report showing that fuel catalysts, produced here in the UK, are an immediate and highly effective way to reduce emissions in urban areas. The APPG estimates that the Exchequer would save about 10% in costs, with an overall reduction in Government vehicle NOx and particulate matter emissions of more than 50%. Will the Minister meet me and Howard Cox, of FairFuelUK, to discuss how we can work on that?

[Chris Grayling]

I am happy to have that meeting, and I look forward to the report with interest. Clearly, we should take any steps that we sensibly can to reduce emissions of both harmful particulates and carbon.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Secretary of State realise the urgency of this issue? These technical innovations are good, but 1 million people are likely to die from poor, filthy air by 2040. When will he wake up? Why will he not admit that the V word—Volkswagen—should have changed the whole world in terms of emissions? He should have taken on the car producers and he has not.

[Chris Grayling]

One of the things that has happened in the past two years, of course, is the sharp fall in the sales of diesel vehicles. We are now looking at ways to continue the transition to low-carbon vehicles, moving away from diesel, which, for many years, and particularly under the last Government, was the No. 1 strategy for dealing with carbon. Of course we need to continue to clean up air, but under this Government we are introducing clean air zones around the country.

[Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)]

12. What steps he has taken to ensure that Northern Rail removes from service all Pacer trains by the end of 2019.

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[Royston Smith (Southampton, Itchen) (Con)]

14. What steps he is taking to reduce levels of engine idling.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

Mr Speaker, you will be aware that vehicle idling is a major factor in poor air quality. That is why we plan to launch a consultation on increasing fines for idling drivers. We will seek a range of views on changes that would be the biggest since 2002 and how we can work with local authorities to tackle the issue.

[Royston Smith]

Southampton, like many other cities, has poor air quality, and engine idling makes that worse, particularly on the Northam rail bridge in my constituency. I have written to the Secretary of State to support a bid to replace that bridge. When will he make a decision? Will he look favourably on our bid, and are we likely to be successful?

[Chris Grayling]

I am expecting to receive proposals from Transport for the South East at the end of July on the schemes that we prioritise for the major road network and large local majors funding for that area. I am certainly aware of the proposal in my hon. Friend’s constituency, which is a potential candidate. I cannot anticipate the result, but he makes a good point about the way in which schemes like that can make a real difference to air quality. Those who seek to cancel improvements on our roads will make matters worse, not better.

[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Grayling)]

Although we have one of the safest railways in the world, we must never be complacent, and I hope that the thoughts of the whole House are with the family, friends and colleagues of the two Network Rail staff who lost their lives in the tragic accident in south Wales two weeks ago. There is an ongoing investigation into what happened. I have asked both the Rail Accident Investigation Branch and Network Rail to ensure that lessons are properly learned from that tragedy.

[Daniel Zeichner]

I associate myself with the Secretary of State’s comments.

The £1.5 billion A14 improvement scheme is, I am told, the biggest civil engineering project in Europe. Highways England is brilliant at moving bridges and flyovers but hopeless at enforcing the diversions that should protect local people when the road is closed at night. Incredibly, it cannot even put traffic counters on the roads affected. Will the Secretary of State therefore join me at 3 o’clock in the morning on King’s Hedges Road to count the HGVs? Failing that—if that offer is not attractive enough—will he talk with me about how we can end the misery for my constituents?

[Chris Grayling]

I am afraid that I am not going to accept the hon. Gentleman’s offer to spend part of the night with him, but I will have a word with Highways England on his behalf and ask it to ensure that the impact on the surrounding area is lessened. No major project can be delivered without some disruption, but we do not want the disruption to be excessive or inappropriate.

[Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)]

T2. Towns such as Evesham and Droitwich Spa in my constituency continue to grow, which puts considerable pressure on local roads. What is the Department for Transport doing to support small towns with their traffic management and traffic lights systems to ease congestion?

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

Gareth Delbridge; Michael Lewis: today we pay homage to two rail workers who tragically lost their lives at work near Port Talbot. It is all the more shocking in the light of the report into the fatality of a track worker at Stoats Nest junction, which described Victorian methods of protection, brought about by casual labour, a zero-hours culture and the worker probably being fatigued, having had to work because his colleague had failed to turn up to work. It was clearly unsafe. Will the Secretary of State bring an immediate end to zero-hours contracts, as advised by the regulator, the Office of Rail and Rail, bring this work back in-house and end these exploitative and unsafe work practices?

[Chris Grayling]

I defend no unsafe work practices on the railways. I agree with the hon. Lady that the railways should always aspire to the highest safety standards. She should remember that we have the safest railways in Europe, but I am very clear, as I said in earlier remarks, that lessons need to be learnt when things go tragically wrong, as they have done on a small number of occasions in recent years, and I expect changes to be made as a result of the lessons that are learnt from those tragic incidents.

[Mr Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire) (Con)]

T3. The residents of Herriard in my constituency have campaigned for many years against the disruptive, antisocial behaviour of some motorcyclists on the A339. I have written to my hon. Friend the Minister about Herriard being included in the acoustic noise camera trial, and I hope that he might use his good offices to direct the consultants who have been commissioned by the Department for Transport. Will he also separately commit to rolling them out to Herriard as early as possible if they are not part of the trial?

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

The Secretary of State has stated that, in the event of a no-deal Brexit, EU regulation 2019/501 will allow UK drivers to continue to drive HGVs in the EU. That regulation has an end date of 31 December this year, so will he confirm that the 2020 vision under a no-deal Brexit for UK drivers, importers and exporters is one of chaos and uncertainty?

[Chris Grayling]

No, I will not confirm that. First, the Government’s policy is not to pursue a no-deal Brexit. We will continue under both our current and future leadership to pursue a deal with the European Union—that has been abundantly clear. However, both sides have equally been abundantly clear that we want trade to continue, and the European Union and we have both been very ready to say that we will allow the flow of hauliers to continue so that trade carries on.

[Neil O'Brien (Harborough) (Con)]

T4. East Midlands Trains, my local rail users group and I are bidding for funds for a cycle hub at Market Harborough railway station. The Minister, who has recently visited, knows that many more people are taking that healthy way to the station in the morning. Will he look favourably on our bid?

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

T5. Is it true that the Secretary of State called the Road Haulage Association and advised it not to criticise his botched Brexit preparations in public? Is this the Government’s new policy for stakeholders: “Don’t criticise us or you’ll be left in the dark.”?

[Chris Grayling]

No; the hon. Gentleman has completely misunderstood.

[Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)]

T6. Luton Borough Council is the 100% shareholder of Luton airport, which yields about £26 million a year for the council. What action are the Government taking to address the conflict of interest, where the Labour-run Luton Borough Council frequently gives the airport permission to flout planning permissions that it has itself imposed?

[Chris Grayling]

I understand the sensitivity, particularly for local Members of Parliament and local communities who see that joint role. I reassure my hon. Friend that there are very clear statutory rules on how a local authority can and cannot act when it owns a piece of land that is subject to a planning application. I give him that reassurance that clear rules are in place.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

T8. The Government are investing £56 billion in HS2, £18 billion in Crossrail and £9 billion on the west coast. When will the Minister have some consideration for the people of the north-east, who do not get anything?

[Chris Grayling]

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the current £700 million upgrade to the east coast main line, the brand new trains arriving on the east coast main line, the new trains the Government are providing for the Newcastle-upon-Tyne metro, our plans to reopen the Blythe to Ashington rail line with financial support from Nexus, the opening of the last leg of motorway-grade road between Newcastle and London, and of course the mayor of Teesside’s exciting plans for his airport. One of the most extraordinary things I have come across recently is that the shadow Secretary of State proposes nationalisation in every field of transport except for his local airport, on which he is opposed to nationalisation. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let us hear Mr Pursglove. Blurt it out, man.

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[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Three weeks ago, I went on a parliamentary visit to the Netherlands and had a tour of the port of Rotterdam. That one port alone is recruiting over 100 new vets to carry out the necessary regulatory checks in the light of a no-deal Brexit. Does that not demonstrate the scale of the cost of a no-deal Brexit and the likely delays from the checks that will be necessary?

[Chris Grayling]

It is not the Government’s policy to pursue a no-deal Brexit. It is the Government’s policy, under current and future leadership, to pursue an agreement with the European Union. That is what we want. We would all prefer to leave with a deal with the European Union, but that has got to be the right deal.

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[Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)]

The decision by Network Rail to shut the east coast main line on the bank holiday weekend is as baffling as it is nonsensical. Tens of thousands of people will be travelling to the north for our great sporting and cultural events, while rugby league fans will be heading to Wembley for the Challenge cup final. The economic impact on the north is likely to be significant. When was the Department first told about this decision, and will the Minister step in now to reverse it and prevent this misery for passengers?

[Chris Grayling]

I absolutely understand the hon. Lady’s concern—it is a very busy weekend. These things are always difficult to judge and to get right. I share some of her anxieties, and I have asked the Rail Minister to look, with Network Rail, at whether further ameliorations can be made that weekend to ease the pressure. Going forward, I will ask the train companies and Network Rail to try to be careful to avoid some of the busiest peak weekends. We have to use periods such as Christmas and Easter, but I do understand the hon. Lady’s issue about the August bank holiday.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

For six years, I have tried to work proactively with HS2 on the route going through my constituency, and had great success, only for HS2 now to produce a Bill that sees a viaduct tear through Rothwell Country Park. HS2 has now had the audacity to send me a letter saying, “We don’t think it affects your area”—that is to the MP for Elmet and Rothwell. What can the Minister do to make Labour-led Leeds City Council, which does not care about my constituents or about us having an inappropriate station location, make this route change? Quite frankly, I can no longer support the HS2 project as it stands.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

Yesterday, Highways England wrote to me to confirm that it is going ahead with the road through Rimrose valley, an area with some of the worst roadside emissions in the country. Why are the Government not proceeding with the option of rail? Putting more freight on rail addresses the urgent need to address the climate emergency. Why are they so complacent about this existential threat to the world?

[Chris Grayling]

It is precisely because we want to see more freight on rail that we are spending £48 billion on our railways over the next five years, looking to expand capacity. Of course, one of the things HS2 will do—I absolutely understand the concern of my hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke), and the HS2 Minister and I will look carefully at the issues in his constituency for him—is create extra space for freight on rail. None the less, better road links to our ports, and to the port of Liverpool in particular, are also an essential part of economic development for an area such as Merseyside.