Oral Answers to Questions
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)
2. What assessment he has made of the role of campaigning by bodies other than political parties in elections.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
At the 2010 general election, the Electoral Commission registered 30 so-called third parties, which between them spent nearly £3 million. The Government are introducing sensible and necessary improvements to the controls on third parties to ensure that they are fully transparent and not allowed to distort the political process.
Andrew Stephenson
Given the scandal involving Unite the Union in Falkirk, and the leaked internal document showing that it is now trying to influence selections in 40 other constituencies across the country, including Pendle, does the Minister agree that there is huge public demand for complete transparency on the influence of trade unions on our political system?
Miss Smith
It is high time this is looked at. I think that the examples my hon. Friend has just given demonstrate that these are by no means isolated cases. It is the same old Labour party, which Len McCluskey still bankrolls, still rigs selections for, still controls and still chooses the leader for.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
The Minister talks about transparency in the political system. She will be aware of the huge concern in March last year when it was first disclosed that multi-millionaires were getting privileged access to No. 10 Downing street and potentially influencing Government policy. It is about more than just elections; it is about influencing Government policy. Does she think that those millionaires will have more of an impact or less of an impact at the next general election?
Miss Smith
I think that the right hon. Gentleman is just treading time until his leader gets up to speak. Perhaps the leader is as weak as he is.
Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)
3. What consideration he has given to changing the regulations concerning voting by UK citizens living overseas.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
UK citizens resident overseas can register to vote in UK and European parliamentary elections provided that they have been registered in the UK in the past 15 years. We are extending the electoral timetable for UK parliamentary elections, which will make it easier for people overseas to use their postal votes, and the Government are also removing the requirement for an initial application as an overseas elector to be attested by another British citizen abroad.
Lorely Burt
I am grateful for that answer. As we know, many UK citizens living overseas are eligible to vote but are not registered. What steps can we take to ensure that British people living overseas are enfranchised?
Miss Smith
The Government will certainly explore all possible ways, in discussion with the Electoral Commission and other interested parties, to encourage registration among overseas electors, as we do, of course, for any eligible elector who seeks to be registered. As I say, the measures that we are taking in the context of moving towards individual electoral registration will help. I urge the hon. Lady and all those here in the House to take this issue very seriously, because very many more overseas electors ought to be registered.
Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co-op)
Does the Minister agree that, given the importance she puts on this, the immediate priority must be the 6 million people in this country who are already eligible to vote but are missing from the register? What is she going to do about that?
Miss Smith
I have an entire programme of activities on individual electoral registration, about which I have always been happy to brief the House; in fact, I will do so again shortly by invitation to all right hon. and hon. Members. When it comes to deciding which voters are more important than others, all voters are equally important.
Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con)
Is consideration being given to the possibility that residents of the Falkland Islands will be given the right to vote in British elections in the same way as the French give people living on the island of Réunion the right to vote in French elections?
Miss Smith
There are various categories of eligibility depending on the status of the country in question—for example, the rules that relate to Commonwealth voters who are resident in this country. I would be happy to take a further look into that question in the light of any changes that my right hon. Friend might be referring to.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
Does the Minister have any concern that a number of local authorities are cutting the money that is dedicated to electoral registration? If so, what is she going to do about it?
Miss Smith
The hon. Gentleman will have been eagle-eyed and read my written ministerial statement last week announcing £4.2 million to deal with exactly that.
Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)
4. What assessment he has made of the work of the Commission on Devolution in Wales.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
The Government, politicians, political parties, electoral administrators and others in society have a role to play in encouraging people, including young people, to register to vote. As I have mentioned, the Government are making available up to £4.2 million this year to maximise the rate of voter registration ahead of the transition to individual electoral registration in 2014. That will be targeted at groups of people who are under-represented on the electoral register, including young people.
Jeremy Corbyn
Does the Minister not accept that under individual registration there will be the serious problem that a lot of young people who lead slightly dysfunctional lives because they are away at college or working away, or for all kinds of other reasons, will not be at an address when a registration form arrives, will not be able to register, and consequently will not be able to vote? Will this system not end up disfranchising a large number of young people who ought to be enfranchised in our system?
Miss Smith
As the youngest Minister in Her Majesty’s Government, I could not agree more on the importance of enfranchising young people. However, I disagree entirely that IER will lead to what the hon. Gentleman describes. There are multiple points at which electoral registration officers will make contact; it is not a case of just one officer turning up. I stand strongly by the principle that it is right in a modern society for people to have an individual right, and indeed a responsibility, to register.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Given that voter registration is straightforward and free of charge, why do the Government not require all public sector organisations, whenever they come into contact with anybody—young, middle-aged or old—to ask whether they are on their local register, and if they are not, to tell them how to register?
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend makes a helpful point. Many opportunities to achieve the ends that he sets out are afforded by having more public services online. We are introducing digital registration in 2014, which will be very helpful in achieving that shared aim.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Maximising Voter Registration Measures
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
I am pleased to announce that the Government are making available up to £4.2 million this year to maximise the rate of voter registration ahead of the transition to individual electoral registration in 2014. Organisations, neighbourhoods and communities have been asked to come up with ideas to get people involved in the democratic process locally and nationally, with the best ideas being awarded funding from the new innovation fund. I welcome Parliament’s scrutiny and encouragement of such ideas, and urge parliamentarians to consider what could be done in their areas and constituencies.
Funding is also being made available to local authorities who have solid and creative ideas to get as many people on to the electoral register as possible in their area.
The introduction of individual electoral registration (IER) in 2014 will modernise our electoral registration system, removing the notion of the head of the household being responsible for the registration of others. IER will also introduce online registration making it more convenient for people to register to vote while also delivering a register that is more secure and engenders greater trust in politics.
A major benefit of IER is that electors will be individually contacted and encouraged to register. This will enable local authorities to aim to get the maximum number of people on the register, including hard to reach and under-registered groups.
Currently some people, such as those in shared housing and frequent home movers are some of the most under-represented on the register.
The funding will be used to support a range of initiatives to be carried out by local authorities and other organisations, such as the voluntary, charity and social enterprise sector, which will work together with the aim of increasing levels of voter registration among under-registered groups. These include:
The Targeted Canvassing Fund—A fund which will enable electoral registration officers (EROs) to carry out intensified canvassing activity in areas with a high proportion of under-registration.
The ERO Registration Fund—A fund which will support proposals for activities from electoral registration officers who will use their knowledge of the needs of their local populations to customise their measures.
Innovation Fund—We will be looking to fund innovative bottom-up approaches to increase representation of under-registered groups (URGs) on the electoral register. We are particularly interested in new innovative approaches to engage communities and increase voter registration.
Schools Outreach—We will be looking for organisations to deliver a set lesson framework, Rock Enrol, which has been developed and piloted with Bite the Ballot, to a number of schools across England and Wales. This is also available to organisations in Scotland, although we will be looking to ensure that proposals take account of planned activity in schools ahead of the independence referendum.
Cabinet Office
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Jeremy Lefroy
13. To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what recent steps he has taken to give small- and medium-sized enterprises greater access to Government contracts.
[Official Report, 19 June 2013, Vol. 564, c. 737-8W.]
Letter of correction from Chloe Smith:
An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) on 19 June 2013.
The full answer given was as follows:
Miss Chloe Smith
It is this Government's policy to increase the Government's direct spend with SMEs to 25% and spend with SMEs across Government has steadily increased since 2010 as a result of the steps we have taken. We have required all Departments to put in place plans to ensure that their spend with small companies continues to increase.
The correct answer should have been:
Miss Chloe Smith
It is this Government's policy to increase the Government's spend with SMEs to 25% directly and in the supply chain and spend with SMEs across Government has steadily increased since 2010 as a result of the steps we have taken. We have required all Departments to put in place plans to ensure that their spend with small companies continues to increase.
Oral Answers to Questions
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)
3. What steps he is taking to ensure that charities are able to bid for public sector contracts.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
It is Government policy to dismantle the barriers facing small companies, charities and voluntary organisations to ensure they can compete for contracts on a level playing field. We have taken a number of significant steps specifically to support charities and social enterprises to bid for and win public sector contracts, such as the implementation of the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012, a community right to challenge, and reforms of procurement processes that make them more open and fair to charities.
Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)
The Foundation for Social Improvement today reports:
“Looking to the future of the commissioning process, it is clear that the current situation is not sustainable. Only around one quarter of respondents indicated that they felt they could carry on bidding for—and carrying out—local authority contracts over the next 5 years.”
Is it true that the Government’s plan to break open public services is merely benefiting a handful of large companies that use charities as “bid candy”, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) said, and as the report concludes?
Miss Smith
As the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd) made clear in an earlier answer, many charitable organisations are already taking part and there are opportunities for more. What I take from the hon. Gentleman’s question is his willingness to work with me and others who care about making procurement better throughout the whole public sector, and encouraging local authorities to do their bit alongside the reforms we have achieved in central Government.
Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)
I applaud the Government’s steps to encourage charities to win public sector contracts, but does my hon. Friend believe there is a threshold to the proportion of income that charities receive from the public sector, above which they stop becoming charities because they are merely agencies of the state?
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend makes an interesting point, and it may be just as much the responsibility of trustees of an organisation to look at such issues within that organisation. The Government welcome the diversity of the sector and the opening up of Government procurement to those who can do the job well for value for money.
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
The Justice Secretary is a man who appears to be in something of a hurry. The Minister may be aware of growing concern among small voluntary organisations that provide services to ex-offenders that under the Justice Secretary’s plans their work will be undermined as large contracts are given to a small number of private providers. What reassurance can be given to those important small charities?
Miss Smith
The right hon. Gentleman may wish to direct that question to the Justice Secretary himself, but the Parliamentary Secretary has had many discussions with Members across Government about opportunities for the voluntary sector, and we are passionate about getting that right.
Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)
In strongly applauding my hon. Friend’s work in this area, may I suggest that it needs to go beyond the procurement process itself? The other danger is public sector bodies—both locally and centrally—taking on employees to do work that could be done more effectively by voluntary sector organisations.
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend makes a good point about the value for money that the state would seek to achieve at all levels. Alongside that, our reforms include measures to build the capability of the third sector, which I am sure we would all want to see strongly succeed.
Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab)
Is it clear that not only have the Government failed to deliver more public sector contracts to charities, but after three years in office the big society project has now become a shrivelled society, except in one area—charitable activity and supporting people whom the hon. Lady’s Government have driven into poverty? More than 13 million people are now in poverty, two thirds of whom are in work.
Miss Smith
I thought the hon. Gentleman would welcome the notion that more charities are getting involved and more people are volunteering. Surely that is a good thing.
Jon Trickett
It is a sad thing. In the past year, the number of people dependent on food banks tripled to almost 350,000, of whom—listen to this figure—126,889 are children. There is no doubt that the Minister is a decent human being, but did she really come into politics to increase the scale of the third sector on the back of a disgraceful rise in the number of children in poverty? Is she ashamed of that record?
Miss Smith
What I am ashamed of is the hon. Gentleman’s attempt to turn an important issue into a political football. Like many others in the House, I have stood alongside excellent volunteers at food banks in my constituency. I applaud their efforts, their goodheartedness and their contribution, but I do not applaud his blindness to the notion that the use of food banks in fact soared under the previous Labour Government.
SMEs (Public Sector Procurement)
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
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Andrew Bingham
My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I will come to something along those lines in a moment.
As I was saying, many small and micro-businesses run tight ships—they are hyper-efficient. Consequently, they can offer products and services at much reduced prices, and every bit equal in quality. However, all the bureaucratic muddle and red tape is not only depriving small businesses of the opportunity to supply but means that public sector bodies are paying more money for the services they procure. The process is costing public sector bodies more twice over. First, someone in the public body must administer all the paperwork, with all the forms having to be read, checked and all the rest of it, so that creates a higher cost for procurement. Secondly, because the public sector bodies are ruling out—shall we say?—more competitive companies by their system, they are also paying more for the products they procure. In many respects, the public sector is paying more for goods; I hate to use the phrase, “paying through the nose”, but it is paying a premium because of its own processes.
About 18 months ago, I held a small business event in my constituency to help my local small enterprises deal with local authorities and other big public bodies, to try to break down some of the bureaucratic barriers that the public sector bodies put in their way; to be honest, sometimes they do so unwittingly. In total, 85 local companies came along to that event, and they all came with a very similar tale. They all mentioned the dreaded pre-qualification questionnaire, or PQQ, which seems to be the bane of every small business person’s life. As the hon. Member for Ogmore said, public sector bodies seem to have a system whereby they say, “This is the procurement package we use, whether the contract is worth billions, millions, thousands or tens of pounds.” It just seems to be the same process and it seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
In discussing the PQQs, I will change the names, because I want to protect both the innocent and the guilty. I have one PQQ here, which is 64 pages long. It was given to me by a local small supplier. I will not say what the company does, because that would give a clue, but we will work on the theory that it supplies wallpaper, because that fits. Obviously, I do not want to disclose the company owner’s details, because it is not fair on him. He tendered for a fairly modest contract with a public sector organisation, which will also remain nameless. He sent me a PQQ that is 20 pages long and asks for information such as cash-flow forecasts. It also asks for a bank letter outlining the company’s current cash and credit position. I am sure that the bank would supply that information, but from my experience of dealing with banks I would say that it will probably charge him.
Looking at the level of detail of the contract, I see that there is an extra cost. It does not matter about all the paperwork and all the rest of it; the company owner has got a bill from his bank. The public sector body wants details of his company’s equal opportunities policy, its health and safety policy and it even asks him to
“describe your organisation’s current workforce development and training programme”.
The company is a micro-business that employs three or four people, supplying goods—as I say, we will go with wallpaper—and it has to supply all that information. I read the form with incredulity; I have even torn the page off, so that the cameras in Westminster Hall cannot pick up who sent it to the company owner. I could go on at great length, and given that we have the time I could actually read the whole of a 64-page PQQ I have, because I could get it all in before the debate finishes. In fact, I was thinking that there are people who collect different things, and we should have a name for people who collect PQQs, because I could be one of them.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
I hope that my hon. Friend will excuse me for quickly intervening. I am sure that he is right to want to protect those involved, but anyone watching this debate and regretting that they cannot pick up the details on camera might like—if they know the details—to go to the Mystery Shopper page on the Cabinet Office website, which I will discuss in my response to the debate, and before the end of the debate we can “shop in” some bad practice.
Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) on securing the debate. My only sadness is that a debate of such magnitude and gravitas does not have a much wider audience and that more Members could not be here. However, it is good to see that the Welsh are in a majority today, with four Members here, along with another Member from the Celtic fringe. We will look closely at what the Minister has to say.
Chris Evans
There is the hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) behind the Minister. He is a sleeper; we sent him on reconnaissance to Pudsey. Come back to Wrexham!
When we talk about the role of businesses in the economy, we are often talking about small and medium-sized enterprises. Let us not forget that half of private sector turnover is accounted for by SMEs. In Wales, the public sector spends approximately £4.3 billion per annum through procurement, which accounts for more than a third of the overall Welsh public sector budget. That includes everything from stationery, paper clips and office furniture to medical equipment. In my constituency, up in Croespenmaen, we have Abingdon Flooring, which supplies furnishings for MOD properties.
What is more, the public sector is the largest user of services and goods from the private and voluntary sectors in Wales. The scale of public sector procurement in Wales and across Britain means that it is the biggest driver of economic growth and the biggest lever the Government can use. No one, on either side of the House, can fail to recognise the importance of public sector procurement.
I remember going to a seminar with Lord Sugar, when he talked about green industry. He said that is okay having wind farms, but they need steel: where are we procuring that? My frustration about procurement is that everyone knows its importance; but, for all the companies that come to me and tell me that they are trying to procure for something, there are hoops to jump through. It gets to the point where they are frustrated and give up on the process.
I read recently that the Prime Minister’s enterprise adviser David Young said he was not convinced that the value of SMEs was being fully exploited across the public sector. It worries me that it seems from a Cabinet Office report that the target of 25% of all government contracts has been quietly dropped. Indeed, from some statements from the civil service it seems that the 25% target is not a target but an aspiration. I agree with the Government that that target could be a catalyst to achieve change in the economy; but that must be driven from Whitehall, and be more than an aspiration. It must be measurable, constant and universally accepted. Also, which businesses does it apply to? Is it for larger businesses or for small and medium-sized business? Are micro-businesses included as well? I do not believe there is anyone who does not see SMEs as job creators. The SMEs of today will be the major companies of the future.
What the debate comes down to essentially is this: we will cut the welfare bill and bring down the deficit only through people in jobs paying taxes. The only way we shall achieve that is by encouraging SMEs and other businesses to have the confidence to create jobs.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) for initiating this debate on such an important subject and for setting us off so passionately. As has been echoing around the Chamber this afternoon, we share a passion for the same thing: seeing excellent procurement that serves the customer—in this case, the taxpayer—and promotes growth. I am confident that every Member here supports those aims and that my remarks will outline the action merited by that.
From the outset, the Government have fully recognised the vital role that SMEs play in helping us achieve the best possible value for money—in some cases for reasons of cost and in others for reasons of innovation, a theme that has also rightly reverberated around the Chamber—when we buy goods and services for the citizen, such as school, hospital or prison meals, wallpaper or any other goods or services.
In the minutes remaining, I will take the hon. Gentleman’s invitation to shatter some myths. Let us do that together this afternoon, because he is absolutely right in laying down his support for the theme and in his desire to see increased awareness of what is available for SMEs, of the ways in which they can grab it and of the ways in which we can hold procurers to account.
I will start by addressing the goal that, by the end of this Parliament, 25% of direct and indirect Government procurement by value should go to SMEs. Although I want to move on to some content that I know will be of great help to every Member when talking to their constituents, I first need to make an overtly political point. I am sad to say that we had to take the bold step of setting a 25% aspiration because before that, under the previous Government, no effort was made to measure such things. The lecture I have just received from the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman is more than a little rich in that context. Even a member of the previous Government has had the dignity to look ahead and say what we need to do better for SMEs, and I am afraid that I do not think the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman is hitting the same heights.
After a lot of hard work in 2010, we found out that SME procurement in 2009-10 amounted to 6.5% of all procurement, or £3.1 billion—a shamefully low figure given that 95% or more of private sector businesses in the UK are microfirms, or companies with fewer than 10 employees. We recognised that something had to be done to remove the barriers facing many companies when bidding for Government contracts, and we have gone a long way towards removing those barriers. I will work through a couple of points that will help Members to express that to their constituents, which is one important thing we can do to send the message outwards.
Over the past three years, we have increased accessibility and transparency, identified and addressed poor procurement practice and provided practical assistance to help SMEs. I will start with accessibility and transparency. We have made contracts smaller and broken them up under various headings. Some of the finest examples of that can be found in information and communications technology, where historically Governments have been subject to procurement disasters. We have instead deliberately gone out to approach SMEs for Government ICT needs and have had some good successes. We have also set up Contracts Finder to increase accessibility; it is a one-stop shop to enable suppliers to find procurement and subcontracting opportunities. They can also find tender documents and contracts online, all free of charge. I urge anyone listening to or reading this debate to look at that.
People will also find online and accessible pipelines of what the Government are looking to procure under a range of topics. All those kinds of thing help would-be suppliers to know what we are looking for. As I said in my opening remarks, we believe in procurement for growth, and we believe strongly that pipelines can help in that endeavour by explaining to industry what this very large customer, the Government, are looking for over time.
In the dynamic marketplace, companies can register without cost to provide quick quotes for low-value Government contracts below £100,000. That enables them to bid and compete at minimal cost alongside larger suppliers. I recognise the points made this afternoon about the cost of bidding. We are doing something about that. On the other side of the deal, what does that give customers—Departments and the taxpayers whom they represent? It gives us cost-effective access to pre-registered Government suppliers and allows bids to be issued and responded to electronically, which again makes the procurement process quicker and more effective.
On the theme of transparency, I also note that we have established a Crown representative for SMEs, which I know will be of great interest to the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans), who wanted to know where SMEs could turn for help. There is a Crown representative in Government especially for the purpose of giving SMEs a voice at the table. That is vital, and we have done it. We have also set up an SME panel to provide a regular forum for SMEs to raise the issues that concern them most and hold our feet to the fire. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the SMEs on that panel do so. I have been there, and I have enjoyed meeting the panel very much.
Moving on to tackling poor procurement practice, we have heard a couple of good examples in this debate, particularly from my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak (Andrew Bingham), who spoke about a wallpaper supplier in his constituency. I will start with that example. It is a great shame that he and his constituents felt the need for anonymity in that example. I understand entirely, but we would all like to live in a world where they did not receive bad service and did not feel the need to hide it for fear of reprisals.
We have introduced a mystery shopper service that will be familiar to anyone who has seen such a thing in supermarkets or reputable businesses throughout the private sector. It allows poor procurement service to be identified and acted on. If a supplier encounters poor procurement practice, such as the overly bureaucratic pre-qualification questionnaire in my hon. Friend’s example, or unreasonable selection criteria, as in other examples, they can refer it anonymously to the mystery shopper service, so that we can investigate it on their behalf.
I encourage and urge all constituency Members to push that information out to SMEs or anybody bidding in their constituency for Government work. It is the only way that one by one, piece by piece, we can tackle that kind of bad practice. It allows us to identify the broader themes that we can perhaps tackle more systematically, but it also allows us to put right individual cases where something has gone wrong.
Jonathan Edwards
Based on what the Minister is saying, does she consider the move towards centralising legal aid contracts an example of bad procurement?
Miss Smith
I suspect that I do not have time to do that topic justice and that you would not wish me to go there, Mr Hollobone. However, if the hon. Gentleman thinks that it is bad practice, he or anybody else ought to enter it into the mystery shopper and see what comes out the other end. We regularly publish the outcomes of mystery shopper investigations on the gov.uk website, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will find it easy to use.
By 31 May this year, we had received 425 mystery shopper cases. Of those that we have closed, a great majority have had a positive outcome. Once again, I encourage all Members to ensure that their constituents are aware of it.
Huw Irranca-Davies
Briefly, and in case the Minister does not touch on these two issues, what are the UK Government doing in terms of the threshold for advertising on the web? The Welsh Government have moved to advertising any contract of more than £25,000 on the web. Also, what are the UK Government doing to reduce the insurance and turnover thresholds to break down more barriers for SMEs?
Miss Smith
On the first question, all central Government contracts of more than £10,000 must be advertised on Contracts Finder; I am sure that those who have their smartphones out will find it a helpful source of information. The second question brings me to a point that I shall make later. We need to leave some areas of professional competence for the contractors themselves. It may be under the headings that the hon. Gentleman mentioned. There are instances in which a particular contractor will need to find particular characteristics that suit their procurement.
I turn to a couple of other points that have been made. Hon. Members have asked for there to be ways of giving feedback to unsuccessful bidders. We have used the mystery shopper to provide that in some cases; I am interested in how we can encourage it as a far wider practice. I will also give an example of the move away from frameworks, another point made earlier. In some cases, it can be an instance of poor procurement practice when frameworks are used inappropriately. They can certainly be a blunt instrument. I point hon. Members to the example of the G-Cloud, a way that we are procuring for IT across Government that has done away with frameworks entirely. There are many more such examples.
PQQs, or pre-qualification questionnaires, are undoubtedly a burden to small and medium-sized businesses. To address that, we have eliminated their use in 15 of 17 Departments for all central Government procurements under the EU threshold of £100,000. The two Departments still using PQQs are doing so only for security reasons.
Miss Smith
I am terribly sorry, but I need to finish some points before I run out of time. For procurements that still require a PQQ, we have introduced a much simpler standard set of questions that reduces the burden on suppliers.
On late payment, we recognise that being paid promptly is vital to enabling SMEs to manage their cash flows. Again, we have addressed that by making Government a fair payment champion. We have a policy of paying 80% of undisputed invoices within five days and ensuring that prime contractors also pay suppliers in tier 2 within 30 days. We expect our suppliers to follow that example.
My hon. Friend the Member for High Peak briefly mentioned the fact that Government can end up paying through the nose for procurement. I make the point in passing that we are one of the best clients going. I think that the hon. Member for Islwyn said that, actually, we have some of the best credit available as a Government purchaser. We can take advantage of that and get results for the taxpayer, which is crucial because that is whom we are procuring for, as well as shaping the market. I suggest that fair payment is a way in which we can do that.
I turn to a couple of other points about assistance to SMEs. Hon. Members have spoken about the small business research initiative, under which we have provided more opportunities within Government for SMEs. To address a further point made by the hon. Member for Islwyn, we have also produced a series of “top tips” videos that help SMEs and voluntary organisations pitch for Government business. Again, he should get out his smartphone right now and find out how good those videos are.
On how the measures are giving results, I should say that direct spend with SMEs across Government has increased from the paltry 6.5% when we took office to 10% in 2011-12. We will shortly announce, two years on, the results of our efforts in that area. SMEs have also benefited from a further 6% in indirect spend through the supply chain in 2011-12, meaning that spend with SMEs across Government has increased steadily since 2010.
Looking ahead, we must keep up the pressure on Departments. The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) will be delighted to know that I am personally scrutinising plans from Departments to increase their spend with SMEs and sharing them with the Prime Minister throughout. We have appointed SME champions to do so at ministerial and official levels in all Departments.
Hon. Members will also be pleased to know that we are working closely with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to ensure that unified advice is available to SMEs. To conclude, we are aware of the recommendations in Lord Young’s work, and I want to do more to support growth with SMEs throughout the public sector.
Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)
All good things must come to an end. I thank all the hon. Members who took part in that most interesting and illuminating debate, and ask those who are not staying to leave quickly and quietly.
Oral Answers to Questions
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
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Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)
1. When he plans to bring forward legislative proposals on the regulation of lobbyists.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
The Government have repeatedly made very clear their commitment to introducing a statutory register of lobbyists. The events that have unfolded over the weekend demonstrate just how important transparency in political life is. We will therefore introduce legislation to provide for a lobbying register before the summer recess. The register will go ahead as part of a broad package of measures to tighten the rules on how third parties can influence our political system.
Katy Clark
Given what has happened over the last few days, does the Minister accept that the public expect full transparency on how big business and money try to influence decisions? Will the legislation include not just lobbying companies but in-house lobbyist for-profit organisations?
Miss Smith
The aim of any reform in this area must, I think, be to ensure that the activities of outside organisations are transparent to the general public and accountable. As we have said throughout the process, it is important that we get this right. We will announce more details in the coming weeks. The hon. Lady will be aware from the proposals already put forward that the intention is to regulate third-party lobbyists. Let us not forget what this is for: it is about knowing who is lobbying and on behalf of whom.
Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con)
In order to tackle some of these concerns, the suggestion has been made that we should have a right of recall. Will the Minister confirm that a right of recall would include a recall ballot, so that instead of leaving it to a committee of grandees in Westminster to decide an MP’s future, constituents would have the chance for a final say?
Mr Speaker
That is very wide, but we will have a brief reply from the Minister and then move on.
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend and I have exchanged views on this subject a number of times, and I look forward to doing so again. As to what we are discussing today, Mr Speaker, you and he will know that there was a draft Bill. We continue to work through its detail and I look forward to bringing forward the further details in due course.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
11. Given that MPs across the parties, and particularly those of us elected in 2010, have been calling for action on lobbyists since we were first elected, why has it taken three years, and still no action? When will we actually have a register in place?
Miss Smith
There are two points: one, we are doing it; and two, the Opposition did not do it 13 years.
Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)
Although we all strongly support openness and transparency of the kind that the Minister has described, does she agree with me that the sort of blatant entrapment carried out by the “Panorama” programme at the weekend would not have been prevented by any such register of lobbyists? Does she also agree that there is a risk of doing something simply in order to be seen to be doing something without addressing the real problems besetting us?
Miss Smith
Mr Speaker, I do not think you would want me to go into the details of the particular case to which my hon. Friend refers. It is important to draw from that, however, that the public expect us to act, that we have said for quite some time that we shall be doing this and that we are bringing forward the details from now onwards. I think that a number of factors might have gone into the events that we saw unfold over the weekend, and it is important to take a wider look at some of them.
Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab)
13. Why are the Government conflating the issues of regulating lobbyists with those of party funding, when previously no links whatever were made between them? Is this a shoddy tactic of the Prime Minister and the Government to get them out of a hole, given that they have done nothing about regulating lobbying before now?
Miss Smith
As I think I have made clear, this is about third parties more generally, and it is right to understand how third parties can influence the political process in general. It is something in which the general public will take a great interest.
John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con)
Does the Minister agree that trade unions are also lobbyists, so if legislation is to be brought forward, they should be included in it?
Miss Smith
I think that our legislative proposals will allow ample opportunity for that and other issues to be discussed. It has been shown in the last few days that there is enormous public concern about the external influences that can arise in relation to people who make laws, and I think it right for third parties and undue influence to be considered.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
I am sure that the Minister is as disappointed and disgusted as all other parliamentarians by the allegations made in the media over the weekend. She will be aware that the manifestos of all three main parties contained commitments to make lobbying more transparent, and to give the electorate more power to hold Members of Parliament to account. Does she agree that if these proposals are to be implemented swiftly, and if the resulting measures are to be enduring, all-party support and work will be necessary? Will she ensure that all parties are involved in the work that will take place before the Bill is published?
Miss Smith
My right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister and I look forward greatly to working with the right hon. Gentleman and others to support proposals that will make the activities of third parties more transparent to the public.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Given that the proposals constituted a strong part of the coalition agreement, why were they not included in this year’s Queen’s Speech?
Miss Smith
We made it clear all along that we intended to introduce this Bill. Working on the detail is important, and I think all Members will welcome the fact that we are doing that now.
Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)
2. What plans he has to bring forward further proposals for reform of the House of Lords.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
To prevent postal and proxy vote fraud, what discussions has the Minister had with the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Electoral Commission in Northern Ireland to learn from the steps that the Assembly has taken to stop such fraud?
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
I would be happy to have further discussions with the hon. Gentleman on those matters. I can confirm that the electoral registration transformation programme seeks to work with all appropriate bodies throughout the system to combat fraud. He makes an important point on the integrity of the electoral system. We are committed to combating fraud and the perception of fraud wherever it arises.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
Will the Minister agree to consider the huge fees, often of up to £20,000, paid to returning officers, who are generally highly paid chief executives of councils? That is a huge amount of money and the Government are looking to save money. I believe that that should be part of political reform.
Miss Smith
I thank my hon. Friend for his question—I know he has probed that issue many times before. Returning officers are entitled by statute to recover expenses incurred, as set out in the order made for each poll. As my hon. Friend will know, through the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013, we have put in place a facility whereby some or all of the fee payable can be withheld in the event of unsatisfactory performance. I am sure he, like the Government, will want to see that new system bed in, after which we ought to return to the issue.
Oral Answers to Questions
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 11 months ago)
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Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)
2. What progress the Government have made on resolving the West Lothian question.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
With this, I will also answer Question 2. The McKay commission, which the Government established to consider how the House of Commons deals with legislation that affects only part of the UK, reported yesterday. We are grateful to the commission for its work. This is an important issue, which is why the Government asked the expert commission to look at it. The report presents a positive step forward, and we will give it very serious consideration before responding substantively.
Harriett Baldwin
I, too, thank the McKay commission for such an erudite report. The commission outlines a principle: that decisions at UK level with a separate and distinct effect for England should normally be taken only with the consent of a majority of MPs for constituencies in England. Will the Minister argue with her boss, who is a passionate believer in political and constitutional reform, to implement that sensible principle in the next Session?
Miss Smith
I commend my hon. Friend for her work on this important matter—she has campaigned long and hard and taken the time to go into the detail. As I have said, the Government take the report extremely seriously. We believe it is a positive step forward, and I am happy to talk to all members of the Government about its merits and otherwise.
Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
Does the Minister accept that constituents of mine who use the health service in England, work in the public sector in England and use public transport in England, but who are represented by me as a Welsh Member of Parliament, want a say on matters relating to England? Does she accept that there are problems, but not always solutions?
Miss Smith
I ought to accept that the right hon. Gentleman wants to do a very good job for his constituents, which I am sure he does. However, I note that the McKay commission report refers to England matters and England and Wales matters. Those serious issues require extensive consideration.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
13. Next September’s referendum will, I hope, deliver a substantial no vote against separation. May I suggest that that would be an ideal time to implement the McKay commission’s sensible proposals and evolve the devolution settlement into one that will be acceptable on both sides of the border?
Miss Smith
I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution. I hear his view on the timing of what the Government must do next. We will take that decision seriously alongside the substantive issues in the report. I agree with him and many others that the people of Scotland should choose to stay in the UK next September, and am confident they will do so.
Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
I wonder whether the resolving of the West Lothian question will help us to understand why the Liberal Democrats voted against air passenger duty in opposition, but voted for it while in government, as we saw last night.
Miss Smith
I do not believe that even I could persuade the McKay commission to cover that level of detail. However, as I said in answer to the previous question, the people of the UK are stronger together than they are apart. I hope the hon. Gentleman transfers that message to his constituents.
Mr Speaker
Order. As I think the House knows, the hon. Gentleman was practising the shoehorning technique, which was as mischievous as it was just about orderly.
Miss Smith
The McKay commission report deals with some of the questions the hon. Gentleman raises. As I have said, they are serious questions, and it will take time to ensure that we respond appropriately. We will do just that.
Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)
3. What the Government’s political and constitutional reform priorities are up to 2015.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
4. How many new members of the House of Lords the Government plan to create.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
As stated in the programme for government, appointments will be made to the House of Lords with the objective of creating a second Chamber that reflects the share of the vote secured by the political parties at the last general election.
Miss Smith
What I see is an avoidance of the reality of what happened after 2010, which was that the list of appointments contained the picks of the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) and Labour became the largest party in the Lords despite having lost the general election.
Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)
If the intention of House of Lords reform was to cut the number of Lords, is it not strange that we intend to increase the number instead of reducing it by half?
Miss Smith
It is important to use facts in this debate. It might be of help to note that there has been a net increase of only 23 in the number of peers eligible to sit and vote in the other place since Tony Blair left office in 2007.
Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)
As part of the pre-legislative consultation on the draft Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, consideration has been given to the elimination of dual mandates not only between the House of Commons and the Northern Ireland Assembly, but between the House of Lords and the Assembly. What is the Minister’s view?
Miss Smith
I am happy to write to the hon. Lady to deal with her question in enough detail.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
In September 2010, the Deputy Prime Minister said that the Government wanted to reduce the cost of politics. To date, 128 new peers have been appointed at a cost of £131,000 each per year, with more planned. Why are the Government no longer concerned about reducing the cost of politics?
Miss Smith
The hon. Gentleman’s party refused to allow the timetable that would have allowed the Government to plan to instil greater legitimacy and constrain the size of the House of Lords. I think that answers his question.
Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)
6. What steps the Government plan to take to improve registration levels when individual voter registration is introduced.
David Wright (Telford) (Lab)
Is the hon. Lady the Deputy Prime Minister now?
Miss Smith
It seems that some would like to promote me, which is no doubt a question for a commission to look into.
The Government are committed to doing all they can to maximise registration. We have published detailed research, which has informed our plans to use data matching, targeted engagement with under-registered groups and new technology to modernise the system to make it as convenient as possible for people to register to vote.
Mr Betts
I am sure the Minister is aware that, in principle, I am a supporter of individual voter registration, but I am concerned about the current low levels of voter registration. Will she therefore give an assurance that the steps taken with regard to data matching will ensure that there is no fall in the level of registration? Hopefully there will be an increase, but what will she do if it does not work out that way?
Miss Smith
I share the hon. Gentleman’s concerns to see the greatest possible levels of both accuracy and completeness in the electoral registers, and I look forward to working with him and others to do that. Solving the problem of under-registration is not the responsibility of the Government alone; it is the responsibility of all politicians and many people across the community to work together to drive up rates. As I hinted in my previous answer, we are taking a number of measures as part of the individual electoral registration programme including: data matching, phasing in the transition over two years, a carry-forward to allow some of those not individually registered to vote in the next general election, a write-out to all the electorate in 2014, a publicity campaign and doorstep canvassing as at present.
Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)
The areas where the electoral roll is most inaccurate in Chester are those with large student populations. Some students register in Chester where they are at university, some register at home, some register at both and some register at none at all. Has the Minister given any consideration to the registration of students under individual voter registration?
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend raises an important point. As I mentioned in my previous answer, we all wish to see the greatest possible level of registration across all groups in society. We are running data matching scheme pilots aimed specifically at students and young people who are about to obtain the franchise. I look forward to his help on that in his university area, and that of other Members.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
Working-class areas across the United Kingdom are quite often the areas where voter registration is lowest. Will the Minister ensure that they are targeted by both the Electoral Commission and the Electoral Office for Northern Ireland to ensure maximum registration in those areas?
Miss Smith
I can reassure the House that we are working with both the Electoral Commission, and, of course, electoral registration offices and administrators in all parts of the United Kingdom, to make the programme a success. In response to the hon. Gentleman’s particular concern about people in both his constituency and others, we expect EROs of particular local authorities to know their areas best and to work with us.
Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)
I share the concerns of the hon. Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) about student registration, which is a big issue in my constituency. I heard what the hon. Lady said. Will she be working with universities, colleges and student unions to ensure a strong campaign to get every student registered?
Miss Smith
We are already doing that. Work has been undertaken with the National Union of Students. I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm for that campaign. I also note that one of the points of the programme is to encourage individual registration, and I hope that many students—highly educated as they are, after all—would recognise the benefits of doing so.
Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
Will the Minister update us on the administrative need to provide one’s national insurance number on registration and say whether she has modelled the impact of this on take-up?
Miss Smith
I certainly can confirm that the national insurance number will be used in registration. It is an important part of the process and one of the primary identifiers that we will be using. There will be others, as part of the exceptions process, which will perhaps be important to the people the hon. Lady may be concerned about. I would be happy to provide her with more detail as she requires.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
It seems to me that every time someone comes into contact with their local council, makes a benefit application, buys a house or rents a property, someone should ask them, “Are you on the electoral register?” What can the Minister do to encourage Government agencies, local government agencies and private companies to ask that question?
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend underlines the point I was making earlier, which is that there is a responsibility across society to encourage people to take part in politics by registering to vote. I am sure he will be working with a range of groups in his constituency to do that. I can also confirm that the programme is using extensive data matching to ensure that records can be shared where appropriate, certainly between public sector bodies, to do the best job we can.
Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
The McKay Commission
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 11 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
In January 2012, the Government announced the establishment of a Commission to consider how the House of Commons might deal with legislation which affects only part of the United Kingdom, following the devolution of certain legislative powers to the Scottish Parliament, the Northern Ireland Assembly and the National Assembly for Wales. Today, the Commission has published its report and I have placed a copy in the House Library.
The Government have made clear their commitment to maintaining the UK and to making sure that the devolution settlements work. The Government are very grateful to Sir William McKay and his colleagues for setting out how the House of Commons might deal with legislation which affects only part of the United Kingdom. The report represents a positive step forward. This is a very important issue, which is why the Government asked this expert Commission to look into it. We will consider seriously and constructively this report and provide a substantive response to it in due course.
Oral Answers to Questions
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 11 months ago)
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Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
8. What progress he has made on engaging small businesses in public procurement.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
It is this Government’s policy to dismantle the barriers facing small companies to ensure that they can compete for contracts on a level playing field and that they can better grow. Direct spend with small and medium-sized companies across Government has steadily increased since 2010 as a result of the steps we have taken, and we have required all Departments to put in place plans to ensure that their spend with SMEs continues to increase.
Anas Sarwar
Does the Minister think that it is acceptable for large multinational companies to receive millions of pounds in Government grants while avoiding paying a single penny in corporation tax? If not, what changes will she make to procurement legislation to ensure that we stop this bad practice and instead increase opportunities for small and medium-sized enterprises?
Miss Smith
I think that the hon. Gentleman will find that much of what he seeks is covered in debates later today. We have recently announced measures to ensure that the companies we deal with as a Government pay their fair share of tax, and rightly so.
Simon Kirby
I would like more businesses in Brighton to have contracts with the Government. Will the Minister make data available on a constituency level regarding which businesses do business with the Government?
Miss Smith
Since the general election Government have become much more transparent about the business they do, and all contracts over £10,000 are now published online at Contracts Finder. My hon. Friend will also find pipelines covering infrastructure and Government construction that will help him with a lot of data. Although we cannot yet release these data specifically at constituency level, I am very keen to make them available, and I look forward to working with him to make that a reality.
Julian Smith
The Minister has done a lot of excellent work on fair payment, but how do we make it easier for our smallest businesses, and our smallest service businesses, to win Government contracts?
Miss Smith
Central Government policy is to pay undisputed invoices within five days and to pass 30-day payment terms down the supply chain as a condition of contract. That has earned this Government the title of fair payment champion, which is very important. We encourage small and medium-sized enterprises to use the mystery shopper service to “shop” poor practice where they find it. My hon. Friend will also know that we have streamlined the procurement process, removed bureaucracy and increased transparency. We are challenging the traditional ways of buying and are ready to be held to account for that.
Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that if a company fails to deliver on a contract, it should be put on a list and not allowed to bid for any future contracts?
Miss Smith
As I noted in my previous answer, we believe in accountability and in being able to “shop” those examples where that occurs. We take action on every such example and I am confident that that will cover what the right hon. Gentleman seeks.
Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the sheer cost inflicted on smaller businesses trying to bid for public contracts is prohibitive? What are the Government doing to reduce the cost of bidding for public contracts? Unless we reduce the cost, they simply will not bid.
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have streamlined the procurement process by introducing faster and simpler procedures. We have removed bureaucracies such as pre-qualification questionnaires for contracts below the European Union threshold. We are also continually finding ways to help SMEs and others to navigate their way across Government. We look forward to continuing to work with my hon. Friend’s Committee to do more of that.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
What progress is the Government making with the SME sector’s representative bodies in addressing barriers?
Miss Smith
I will answer that by quoting evidence submitted to the Public Administration Committee by the Market Research Society, which said that it
“applauds the activity of the Crown’s Representative for SMEs…and the ‘Mystery Shopper Scheme’ enabling SMEs to report examples of good and bad practice”.
Those are ways in which we are holding our own systems to account. We want to do more and it is vital to get SME representatives around the table to do so. I shall be doing more work on that this afternoon.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
6. What his policy is on the use of teleworking and working from home in Government Departments; and if he will make a statement.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
In order to deliver services that meet the needs of the public, the civil service—just like comparable private sector employers—needs a flexible and dynamic workforce. We recognise that remote and home working can bring significant benefits, such as increased productivity, business resilience, work-life balance and well-being. Business units in every Department will need to make such decisions according to business need.
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. This Government are doing plenty to help that group and we made child care announcements yesterday and today. The benefits of flexible working can also be seen on a much broader level: research recently suggested that British businesses could save £34 billion by taking on such an approach.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
11. What steps his Department is taking to reduce the level of late payment by public sector contractors to small and medium-sized enterprises.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
As I have noted, Government policy is to pay undisputed invoices within five days and to pass 30-day payment terms down supply chains. The Crown representative team in the Cabinet Office is encouraging prime contractors to do that more quickly on a voluntary basis. We have tasked Departments to manage their contracts to ensure that prime contractors pay sub-contractors within 30 days.
Debbie Abrahams
I am glad that the Government are now taking seriously late payments to small and medium-sized enterprises, after I received such a dismal response on the issue in 2011. When are the Government going to ensure that public sector contractors have the need to pay SMEs in their supply chain promptly in their contracts?
Miss Smith
I congratulate the hon. Lady on the award that she has won in connection with her work on this matter. My previous answer covered what the Government are doing. We are extremely keen to see good practice pushed throughout the supply chain. We are ensuring that more business goes to SMEs, which is good for growth. All told, that is a good thing and something of which the Government can be proud.
Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Collective Ministerial Responsibility
Chloe Smith Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
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The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) for securing the debate and all hon. Members for contributing to it so extensively. It will not surprise you, Mr Bayley, to hear that I will decline the offer that the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) made at the end of her speech. That subject matter rightly belongs elsewhere, and she would expect me to do you no dishonour by going outside the scope of the debate. I want to address collective ministerial responsibility, as is correct, instead of other extraneous questions.
As I understand it, the central question among the many posed by my hon. Friend was about accountability for collective responsibility. I interpret that to mean that it falls to me today to explain the Government’s doctrine, and to articulate how the Government believe that it ought to be applied.
I shall start with the historical view, in brief. Collective ministerial responsibility has a long-standing place in the British constitution. As far as historians can tell, the doctrine came into being during the reign of George III, who had the perhaps rather dangerous habit of asking Ministers to come and see him individually to give him their views on important matters of state. I do not know whether he did that sitting on a sofa, or whether there were briefings later in the Red Lion. Who would know better than some Members in the Chamber where that style of government ends up, and what happens when senior Ministers cannot agree and go so far as to change their Prime Minister or Head of State without an election, which the hon. Member for Leyton and Wanstead (John Cryer) suggested was a very bad thing indeed? To return to George III, the Cabinet realised that the King’s actions were an attempt to undermine their unity and work out who his supporters were. They therefore agreed that they would tell him exactly the same thing, taking collective responsibility for their decisions.
Clearly, we have moved on a long way since then, in historical terms. Collective ministerial responsibility is about how Ministers behave towards the public and Parliament, rather than towards the Crown. However, the basic point remains the same: Ministers need to be able to have frank discussions and disagreements in private, while maintaining a common purpose once a decision has been taken.
It is to maintain the principle of collective ministerial responsibility that the ministerial code states that the Government will not normally disclose the level at which, or forum where, a decision was taken—my hon. Friend has sought to discuss that matter through parliamentary questions. If the code were not applied, it would be possible to work out which Ministers were present at a meeting. It would also open up debates about which decisions were accorded a higher or lower perceived level of importance than others. That would detract somewhat from the policy quality of issues that might be scrutinised in that way.
Collective ministerial responsibility does not abolish individual responsibility. Each Minister must decide for themselves whether they are happy to remain part of the Government and to support the Government’s decisions. There have been many cases of people feeling no longer able to stand behind the collective conclusion. Famous examples include the noble Lord Heseltine, who, when he was merely Michael Heseltine, famously walked out of Cabinet following the decision on the future of Westland, and the late Robin Cook, who resigned from Cabinet because he did not feel able to take collective responsibility for the decision to go to war in Iraq.
The current version of the ministerial code makes it clear that collective responsibility can be explicitly set aside on occasion. Even before the inclusion of that provision in the code, there was an established practice of doing so on specific issues. Most notably, it has long been the case that collective responsibility does not apply to issues of individual conscience. Most recently, there was a free vote of that kind on the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill last week.
Mr Andrew Turner
Will the Minister take this opportunity to explain why we were not whipped on the major vote, but were whipped on such things as the business vote?
Miss Smith
I would be only too delighted to engage in that discussion with my hon. Friend, but as he knows, I no longer practise the dark arts carried out by what are known as the usual channels. I regret that I would not be able to do that decision justice; nor could I report back to those who make those decisions, if I even tried.
On the ministerial code, it is important to note that there is clear precedent, as has been said several times today, for suspending collective ministerial responsibility on specific issues, when the Government of the day decide that it is appropriate. A notable example, which we have discussed, is Harold Wilson’s decision on whether the UK should continue to be a member of the European Economic Community. He allowed members of his Cabinet to speak and campaign on both sides.
Let me offer the Chamber a few other historical examples. Shortly after the formation of the national Government in 1931, an “agreement to differ” was agreed. The terms of that were published in The Times in January 1932, and in February that year, the Home Secretary began a speech by commenting on the doctrine of collective responsibility:
“The House will have an opportunity…of discussing fully the departure from the doctrine of collective responsibility which is marked by my appearance at this Box this afternoon”—[Official Report, 4 February 1932; Vol. 261, c. 316.]
It is also helpful to note that in 1977, James Callaghan, the then Prime Minister, said:
“I certainly think that the doctrine should apply, except in cases where I announce that it does not.”—[Official Report, 16 June 1977; Vol. 933, c. 552.]
That demonstrates that the terms, duration and enforcement of the arrangement are ultimately a matter for the Prime Minister.
It is most important to add that the current Government have decided to set collective responsibility aside on some specific occasions. That is a fact of life in a coalition, and it shows how our constitutional practice can evolve to suit new situations.
Mr Chope
The Minister is talking a lot about the history, but can she explain why the Prime Minister was unable to give me a straight answer to my question, asking why he set aside collective ministerial responsibility in respect of the Electoral Registration and Administration Bill, and on what date that decision was taken? Why could the Prime Minister not let me have a straight answer on that?
Miss Smith
I wanted to go on to say, in addressing what I took to be my hon. Friend’s central point—accountability for the decision, when taken, to set aside collective ministerial responsibility—that the key is that Parliament certainly ought to be informed in a way that is appropriate to the instance in hand. I will not comment on whether the Prime Minister did or did not do that for the hon. Gentleman in parliamentary questions, but in the instance of the Lords amendments to the ERA Bill, my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House of Commons made such a statement to the House, explaining why he was speaking and how it was that collective responsibility had been set aside. I believe that the explanation has been offered in cases where such a departure has been outlined, and I think that that provides the kind of transparency and accountability that we are all seeking in this important area.
In conclusion, I note that the coalition agreement, in so far as it relates to the debate, sets out specific areas where the normal rule is not expected to apply. The citizens whom we all serve have had the chance to observe that in advance, and so hold us to account. Through that, there is no undermining of the coalition’s shared commitment to reducing the deficit and delivering a radical programme of reform that gets Britain back on track, after the catastrophic position in which it was left in 2010.
It has been possible in my short remarks to address only the notion of accountability for such decisions, but I want to finish by saying that it is vital that we are not distracted from our core task in Government at this time, which is to put right the mess that the Labour party made of Britain.
Hugh Bayley (in the Chair)
We now come to a half-hour Adjournment debate about engineering as a career choice for young people. It might be a courtesy to all hon. Members who want to listen to this debate if we wait just a minute or two for hon. Members who attended the previous debate to leave the room quietly.