Terrorism Act 2000 (Proscribed Organisations) (Amendment) Order 2021

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That the draft Order laid before the House on 19 April be approved.

Instrument not yet reported by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, this Government are committed to taking all necessary steps to protect the people of this country. Tackling terrorism in all its guises is a key element of that mission. The threat level in the UK, which is set by the independent Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre, remains at “substantial”. This means that a terrorist attack in our country is likely.

The constantly evolving nature of terrorism means that we continuously consider whether new action is necessary to ensure that our response is adapted to the threat picture. There are growing concerns about the spread of extremist ideologies, such as white supremacism, and their pernicious influence, particularly on children and young people. The danger posed by terrorist organisations varies from one group to another. There are those that recruit, radicalise, promote and encourage terrorism as well as those that prepare and commit terrible acts of violence against innocent members of the public.

In the internet age, extremist and terrorist groups can more easily and rapidly influence those vulnerable to their recruitment tactics. At the click of a button, they can spread their abhorrent world views to other groups in different countries, encouraging them to take up their mantle and engage in violence. We have a duty to our allies, as well as to our own people, to tackle those groups that inspire and co-ordinate international terror. While we can never entirely eliminate the threat from terrorism, we will always do all we can to minimise the danger it poses and keep our public safe.

Some 76 international terrorist organisations are currently proscribed under the Terrorism Act 2000. Thanks to the dedication, courage and skill of counterterrorism policing and our security and intelligence services, most of these groups have never carried out a successful attack on UK soil. Proscription is a powerful tool for degrading terrorist organisations, as noble Lords know.

The groups we now propose to add to the list of terrorist organisations, amending Schedule 2 to the Terrorism Act 2000, are Atomwaffen Division, or AWD, and its alias, National Socialist Order, or NSO. AWD is a predominately US-based white supremacist group active under that guise between 2015 and 2020. NSO is the alias of AWD, has claimed to be AWD’s successor group and remains active. The group’s actions, which seek to divide communities and stir up hatred, are entirely contrary to the interests of our nation.

Given the wide-ranging impact of these powers, the Home Secretary exercises her power to proscribe only after thoroughly reviewing the available evidence on an organisation. This includes open-source material, intelligence material and advice that reflects consultation across government, including with the intelligence and law enforcement agencies. The cross-government Proscription Review Group supports the Home Secretary in her decision-making process. Her decision to proscribe is taken only after great care and consideration of the particular case, and it is appropriate that it must be approved by both Houses.

Having carefully considered all the evidence, the Home Secretary believes that AWD, including through the activities of its alias, NSO, is concerned in terrorism and the discretionary factors weigh in favour of proscription. Although, as noble Lords will know, I cannot comment on specific intelligence, I can provide the House with a summary of the group’s activities. AWD celebrates a collection of noxious essays that advocate the use of violence to bring about a fascist, white ethnostate by initiating the collapse of modern society by means of a race war. This ideology has become known as “accelerationism”. AWD’s online propaganda has encouraged and promoted terrorist acts, and this content likely remains influential among accelerationist terrorist groups. We know that AWD has inspired, at least in part, several loosely affiliated franchise groups abroad, including Feuerkrieg Division, which was proscribed in 2020.

In March 2020, AWD claimed that it had disbanded following pressure from US law enforcement agencies. In July 2020, NSO announced itself online as AWD’s successor. NSO adheres to the same abhorrent ideology and has similar accelerationist aims as it did when it was called AWD. Under the name NSO, the organisation has publicly dedicated itself to bringing about white- power Governments “by any means necessary”, and it is the Government’s belief that it is almost certain that “any means necessary” is intended to be understood as endorsing violence.

Our strategy to combat terrorism looks at the full spectrum of activity. It is absolutely right that this includes confronting, square on, the threat from groups who call for violence and mass murder, and who unlawfully glorify horrific terrorist acts, so that they are prevented from continuing to stir up hatred. When groups without a physical presence in the UK are proscribed, particularly groups such as AWD which have an established online presence, it is important to consider the wider impact that proscription has. By proscribing white supremacist, accelerationist terrorist groups with like-minded ideologies, such as Sonnenkrieg Division, Feuerkrieg Division and Atomwaffen Division, we underline our commitment to ensuring that the UK is a hostile environment for individuals involved in white supremacist or accelerationist terrorism.

Our objective is to ensure that there are no safe spaces online for terrorists to promote or share their extreme views. In proscribing AWD and NSO, we send a clear signal that the dissemination of the group’s online propaganda is unacceptable. The Home Office continues to work closely with law enforcement, our international partners and tech companies, including through the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism, also known as GIFCT, to collaboratively tackle the spread of terrorist content online. We know that proscription of groups helps tech companies to better tackle terrorist material on their platforms. I believe that there is a strong case for the Government to proscribe AWD and list NSO as an alias. It will build upon the robust action the Government have already taken by proscribing National Action, Sonnenkrieg Division and Feuerkrieg Division.

Our message is clear: we will always take every possible action to counter the threat from those who hate the values that we cherish. The safety and security of the public is our number one priority, and I commend this order to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in favour of this proscription. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, made the pertinent point that these actions are preventive—and, my goodness, the security services have certainly prevented some terrorist action over the last few years. Like the noble Lords, Lord Paddick and Lord Kennedy, I pay tribute to them.

The noble Lords, Lord Kennedy and Lord Paddick, pressed me on why we are bringing these measures forward now. Obviously, there is information that the Home Secretary receives that I cannot discuss, and she will make decisions based on the intelligence and legal information that she receives. On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, we do not think that SKD was actually the British branch of AWD. It might have been influenced by AWD, but we understand that it is not the same group. They are all equally awful, but we do not think that those links are there. With that, I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

Immigration: Skilled Migrants from Commonwealth Countries

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 19th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Woolley of Woodford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of reports that highly skilled migrants from Commonwealth countries who have lived in the United Kingdom for 10 or more years have been refused indefinite leave to remain.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, we do not believe that highly skilled migrants who came to the UK using the tier 1 general visa route have been incorrectly refused indefinite leave to remain. There have been many cases of applicants appearing to deliberately misrepresent their earnings to qualify for leave to remain. We are giving applicants opportunities to respond to these concerns, and each case is being considered on its merits.

[Lord Woolley of Woodford (CB) [V]]

My Lords, my understanding of the Home Office data, supported by the Migrants’ Rights Network, shows that all highly skilled migrants who have been refused indefinite leave to remain are non-white and from six Commonwealth countries in south Asia and Africa. Given that the Institute for Fiscal Studies showed that 60% of all online self-assessment tax returns have discrepancies—the main reason for their refusal—can the Minister explain this worrying racial disparity, particularly coming after the Windrush review?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, I absolutely refute that this has anything to do with the Windrush generation. The noble Lord points out that a large proportion of the refusals were given to non-white people; the countries represented have populations that would normally be non-white—that is the link there. People falsified earnings: quite often, amendments were made to tax returns over three years after the original returns and often less than six months before making the ILR application.

[Baroness Verma (Con) [V]]

My Lords, will my noble friend also look into the fact that there will be many skilled migrant workers who, because of Covid, will also have lost their current regular income, which may impact on their applications to stay? Following on from the question of the noble Lord, Lord Woolley, would she look a little deeper into the fact that a number—indeed, all—of those who have been refused are people of colour?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, as I explained to the noble Lord, Lord Woolley, the fact that these are people of colour probably reflects the countries the applications came from. There were some fairly appalling practices with these applications, as I have outlined—and where ILR had been granted, we saw cases of applicants subsequently amending their tax records back down again not to have to pay additional tax. I totally get my noble friend’s point, but we need to see these cases in perspective.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, I believe that the noble Baroness’s response is in order. However, circumstances exist that border on the inhumane and run counter to the spirit of the Commonwealth, and indeed elsewhere. If the Government can be considerate to Hong Kongers, would they consider a one-time amnesty to all those thus impacted, through no fault of their own, thereby doing the right thing in the right way?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Absolutely—we have humanitarian routes, which are used. The noble Lord talked about BNOs, and he is absolutely right: the people of Hong Kong are coming here legally—we have granted them leave to remain under the BNO route. Far from being inhumane, this country has a proud record of giving refuge to people who need it.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, on that point, there has been and continues to be a particular problem of young people and teenagers, who have spent a considerable number of years in this country, sometimes—through no fault of their own but because of the bureaucracy of the system, the decision-making and so on—finding themselves threatened with a return to the country of their parents’ or their birth, despite having spent a number of years in this country, attending school here and experiencing the growing-up process here. Is that really a humane reaction, and is there a better way that the Government could handle these cases?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I totally get the point that the noble Lord is making about some of the humanitarian considerations that we should give to people who grew up in this country, but this is a very different issue. The cases we are talking about this afternoon are of people who falsified their earnings, claiming back tax on them in some instances, as I have said. It is absolutely right that we are not only tolerant and welcoming but that we stamp out fraud where we see it—and these cases were of fraudulently declared earnings.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to the Minister for Future Borders and Immigration’s recent statement that highly skilled migrants should not face destitution or have their right to work refused while their case is being decided. In reality, nearly half are still experiencing destitution, and 55% have no right to work. What actions will the Government take to honour this, and will they consider compensation for the approximately 80% of the 1,697 cases of individuals who were later found not to have been dishonest in their tax discrepancies?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Of the nearly 1,700 refusals, 88% had differences of more than £10,000, and the average difference across all cases was £27,600, so they were not small differences. On people facing destitution, of course people will be cared for while their applications are being considered. Of course, particularly during the Covid pandemic over the past year, it has been very important to be able to give people that bit of respite because of the difficulties that they will face, first, coming here and, secondly, going back, if their applications are refused.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, it is rather a serious step to refuse people indefinite leave to remain who have been in this country for 10 years or more. The Minister referred to the non-criminal historic tax discrepancies, which are the cause of the trouble. Will she tell us how long ago these tax discrepancies occurred, on the basis of which indefinite leave to remain is being denied? Have they been recent cases or ones of some 10 years ago? Can she assure me that the statements that the Government are now making from the Dispatch Box have been checked by Ministers to ensure that they are accurate and that these people really are being denied indefinite leave to remain for good, strong reasons?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, most applications for settlement were made around 2016. Some of them go back some years. The reason why they were uncovered was because of the sheer volume that HMRC was noticing as a strange pattern of behaviour. It was sufficiently unusual to draw it to the attention of the Home Office. This is not an attempt to deny ILR—this was a deliberate attempt on the applicants’ part to falsify records so that they matched the self-employed earnings previously declared in tier 1 applications.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I listened very carefully to what my noble friend has said. Is she absolutely convinced that these applications have been handled not only efficiently but sensitively, bearing in mind that we really owe a great deal to those who have provided wonderful services in our country for many years? We would all be extremely concerned if some fell through an imperfect net.

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[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, I would share my noble friend’s concern if people were to fall through an imperfect net. We must not conflate them with the Windrush generation, who were genuinely and rightfully here and to whom we owe a debt of gratitude. The people we are talking about have falsified earnings in order to come to this country.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, I regret that the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. [Interruption. Excuse me—Members should not leave when I am standing up.

Undercover Policing Inquiry

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 14th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Clark of Kilwinning]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the progress of the Undercover Policing Inquiry into police surveillance, established in 2015.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the inquiry’s investigations are independent of the Home Office, and I welcomed the commencement of its evidential hearings in November 2020. The department maintains regular liaison with the inquiry on sponsorship issues such as progress and expenditure. We remain of the view that it is important for the inquiry to report as soon as practicable, as set out in its terms of reference.

[Baroness Clark of Kilwinning (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that answer. As she is aware, one of the reasons why the inquiry was established was that a number of women had dishonestly become involved with undercover police officers in quite an abusive way—some of them, indeed, having children by those officers. One of the calls from many of the participants in the inquiry was for the inquiry to be public and live-streamed. One of the reasons for that is that there may be many more women who have been dishonestly treated in this way—and more children whose fathers are undercover police officers. Will the Minister look at live-streaming the inquiry and at how it can be made public, so that the images and names of the undercover police officers are more readily available and activists can see whether they have been impacted in some way?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The inquiry chair has already opined on the publication of a list, and the noble Baroness will know what his comment on that issue was. I understand her point about women being involved with undercover police, and some of them getting pregnant and having children. On televising proceedings, she would need to go to the inquiry chair to request that; the inquiry is independent of government.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab) [V]]

What is the cost of the inquiry to date and what is the target date for its report? It is acquiring the aura of the Saville inquiry. How many immunities have been granted by the Attorney-General? Since it has been said that the legitimacy of the inquiry is bound up with the full co-operation of its participants, is it diminishing?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The cost to date is £36.2 million. The report to the Home Secretary is due before the end of 2023.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Con) [V]]

My Lords, will my noble friend say whether there is any mechanism to ensure that an inquiry as important as this will report in a reasonable time?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very pertinent point because, of course, some of the inquiry goes back to 1968, so timeliness is very important. As members of the sponsor department of a statutory inquiry, both the Home Secretary and the Permanent Secretary have sponsorship responsibilities that are set out in the inquiries management statement. I have personally engaged with the chair in my capacity as sponsor to discuss the progress of the inquiry and stress the importance of learning lessons promptly.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, given that the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Act was recently passed by this House with Labour and Conservative support—giving the police the ability to give CHIS participating in protests immunity from prosecution, with no specific prohibition on CHIS acting as agents provocateur—what reassurance can the Minister give to the House that police CHIS were not involved in recent protests against the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

HMICFRS published a report just last month on policing protests. It concluded that there was no use of undercover officers in protest policing, which appears proportionate to the nature of criminality inherent in protests generally. It makes only brief reference to the ongoing undercover police inquiry.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, the chair of the inquiry has ruled that the Special Branch registry files, which could give more information about the work of undercover officers, will not be part of the inquiry. That means that the truth will be very filtered, which makes it hard for core participants, who feel that they will not get justice. Would the Minister agree to a meeting with me and perhaps a member of each of the opposition parties to discuss the major flaws in the inquiry and why the core participants are so upset?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

Just before Questions, I said to the noble Baroness that I would look into what I could and could not do because, of course, the inquiry is independent, and rightly so. Parliament would expect it to be independent and therefore would not expect interference from the sponsoring Minister—but I will take back her point.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

Can the Government give an assurance that, following the conclusion of the Mitting inquiry, any people who were actively spied upon by the police, including individuals who may have been tricked into intimate relationships with undercover officers, will be made aware of what occurred and will not be denied access to justice?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the rationale would not be to deny people access to justice. Clearly, the revelation of any names would be a matter for the chairman of what is an independent inquiry.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, the inquiry was set up in 2015; over five years passed before opening statements were delivered. Some 90 staff are directly engaged, and, as my noble friend has said, the cost, so far, exceeds £36 million, but that excludes very considerable expenditure by police forces responding to the inquiry. I estimate that the inquiry’s total cost to the public purse, by the time it reports—well into the current decade—will be in excess of £100 million. Can my noble friend the Minister tell me if that is a reasonable forecast that the department is budgeting for?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I am not sure whether it is a reasonable forecast, but, responding to my noble friend’s points, I can say that the inquiry needs to deliberate promptly and with an eye properly on its use of public funds in order to do so.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, could the Minister confirm what the direct role of the inquiry is around undercover policing with other police forces, given that infiltration took place in organisations with a UK-wide reach?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I assume that the noble Baroness is referring to Northern Ireland. It is probably inappropriate to comment on that at this point, while judicial proceedings are ongoing.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

An inquiry cannot request files where it does not know that they exist. Can we be assured that there are no files within the Home Office that have not been sought out, retrieved and provided to the inquiry?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

If the Home Office is asked for files that it has, it would most certainly have to provide them to the inquiry.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked, and we now move to the fourth Oral Question.

Immigration

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 14th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, the Statement claims to have taken back control of legal immigration by ending free movement. Not only can EU citizens continue to enter the UK without a visa, using the e-passport gates at UK airports, but rather than taking back control of legal immigration the Government have extended the use of these e-passport gates to a further seven countries. Before, citizens of those countries had to have a valid reason for entry, enough money to sustain them and evidence that they would leave again. As a result, thousands were turned away at the UK border every year. Can the Minister say what checks are now done on these visitors?

The Statement says that people are dying at sea. Is this not because safe and legal routes for genuine asylum seekers are inadequate or non-existent? How many safe and legal routes are open to genuine asylum seekers? Can the Minister explain how vulnerable people in a war zone can apply under such a scheme? What advice does she have for legitimate seekers of sanctuary in those parts of the world with no safe and legal routes to the UK?

The Statement says that the UK’s asylum system should be based on need. Yet the Government propose to set up a two-tier system, based not on need or the validity of someone’s claim but on how they got to the UK. Are the Government aware of Article 31 of the 1951 UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees? It states:

“The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees... provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.”


Are the Government’s proposals to penalise those who do not use safe and legal routes—routes which do not currently exist and for which the Government have no firm plans or timetable—not in contravention of its international obligations?

The Statement talks about someone illegally entering the UK from France. Can the Minister say on which piece of legislation the Government rely when they claim that asylum seekers who travel through a safe country to get to the UK can only claim asylum in that safe country? Even if they had claimed asylum in an EU country, what mechanism will the Government use to deport them, now that the UK is no longer part of the Dublin regulation?

The Statement claims that the immigration system “is collapsing” under the pressure of asylum applications. In the early 2000s, around 100,000 people a year were claiming asylum in the UK. In 2020, it was 36,000—a reduction of almost two-thirds, despite an increase in the number of people crossing the channel in small boats. Is the reason that the system is collapsing not channel crossings but Home Office mismanagement? Is the reason for the increase in channel crossings not due to the fact that people can no longer claim asylum from outside the UK?

Can the Minister confirm how many of the 42,000 failed asylum seekers who have not left the country are in the process of appealing a Home Office decision, when, on average, 50% of those claims are usually successful? Of those who have exhausted the legal process, why has the Home Office not deported them?

This is not a common-sense approach to controlling immigration. This Statement highlights a catalogue of government failures, along with an illegal proposal to discriminate against those legally seeking sanctuary in the UK and a hollow promise to help the most vulnerable at some unspecified date in the future. The policy has thrown open the UK border to even more countries while slamming the door shut on genuine asylum seekers. I have the greatest respect for the Minister—even though she rises in an attempt to defend the indefensible.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

I thank both noble Lords for their questions. I found them quite interesting. I always find the questions of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, interesting. However, in a funny way we agree on some of the issues, although it would not seem so on the face of it. The last question that the noble Lord asked was: why has the Home Office not deported people who have exhausted their claims? In the proposals is the idea of a one-stop process in order that people do not keep on bringing claims, including on the steps of the plane or whatever the mode of transport might be, when being returned to their country of origin. The noble Lord asked why there had been an increase in channel crossings. It is due to criminality. There is a commonality within this House and the other place that we want to stop that criminality. All that it does is feed human misery and cause deaths, quite often in the English Channel. The criminals are the only ones who profit from it.

The noble Lords, Lord Paddick and Lord Rosser, asked a totally fair question: what are the legal routes? The legal routes are not being proposed but asked about in the consultation process, in which I hope a lot of people will engage. In fact, thousands have done so already in relation to what legal and safe routes look like. Resettlement, whereby we have given refuge to more than 45,000 people since 2010, has been an incredibly efficient way in which to get to this country from the regions really vulnerable people who need our refuge. Obviously, if someone has a visa and the situation changes while they are in this country, that is another legal route. A good example of that might be Myanmar at the moment. If there is no visa regime in place in the country of origin, people can travel to the UK to claim asylum. But, as I say, there are the three obvious routes, including resettlement, and a consultation process is under way, which will elucidate the answers for the Government to consider.

The noble Lords, Lord Rosser and Lord Paddick, talked about controlling our borders and leaving the EU. Yes, we make absolutely no bones about that. One of the reasons why the British public decided that they wanted to leave the EU was so that we could take control of our borders. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, is right; it is not necessarily any more about numbers but about having control over who comes in and out.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, also talked about the BNOs. The estimate that about 320,000 people will come here is correct; there is no restriction on them. He also talked about people from war-torn countries. Of course, they are the very people we want to give refuge to. That was the origin of the resettlement scheme: so that people in Syria and the MENA region could get our refuge. We have now extended resettlement to include anywhere in the world where people might be vulnerable as a result of either persecution or war.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, also talked about successful appeals. That goes back, again, to the one-step process. Appeals are frustrating the whole process of giving genuine people asylum, and it is important that we do not allow gaming of the system. We want the most vulnerable to be able to avail themselves of our asylum.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked about pending agreements with France. Yes, discussions continue with EU partners and he will know that I do want to go into the details of that on the Floor of the House. He and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, asked whether we are complying with the refugee convention. Yes, we are. On the issue of first safe country, the system was established under Dublin. It is nothing new that people who arrive in safe countries should not then seek to come to this country if, in fact, they have been given refuge in a safe country. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, also raised the issue of inadmissibility rules. They are of long standing and existed under Dublin.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, talked about the abrupt cessation of the Dubs scheme. The number of people under it was based on the ability of local authorities to take asylum seekers. We made it very clear to Parliament at the time—and Parliament was in agreement—that we could not commit to bringing people here if we could not house them within local authorities.

In terms of e-gates, the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, is absolutely right. The ability to get into this country via the e-gates has been extended to include seven countries. However, if you have not signed up to the EU settlement scheme and, therefore, cannot prove your right to work or rent, your journey is very restricted thereafter. The noble Lord asked how someone in a war zone applies. This is why I keep talking about resettlement—someone in a war zone should be picked up within our resettlement schemes. I repeat: some 45,500 people have been given refuge since 2010. The noble Lord posited that we were going to penalise people who do not use safe and legal routes. The people we really want to penalise are the people traffickers, the criminals—those who make money out of other people’s misfortune and, quite often, death.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, we now come to the 20 minutes allocated for Back-Bench questions. There are only eight questioners, so if noble Lords exercise their normal discretion, we should be able to hear from everybody. We start with the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper.

[Baroness Hooper (Con)]

My Lords, we must all deplore the tragic consequences of people smuggling and recognise the need to turn the tide of illegal immigration. Looking ahead, since primary legislation will be required to implement the new plan, I ask my noble friend the Minister to expand on chapter 9 of the policy statement, concerning the consultation process that started on 24 March. She has touched on this, but can she give us some examples of the stakeholders involved and that will be involved? In particular, can she tell us whether the IMO—the International Maritime Organization—is to be included in the consultation? I think it is the only United Nations body to be based in the United Kingdom with responsibilities for security, among other things.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I took the opportunity this morning of seeing how many people have, thus far, replied to the consultation. You can see the rolling number on the website, and it is well over 7,000 to date. As for telling my noble friend who might have replied, I could not see a list on the website. I probably cannot see that until the consultation is complete, but I will look into it for her. I take her point about that one body based in the UK and will see if I can give her any further information on that.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham [V]]

I begin by declaring my interest as a trustee of Reset and a member of the RAMP Project, as in the register. The Minister knows that I have deep respect for her work, and I am extremely grateful for the co-working we have done on a range of issues over the last few years. There is much that I welcome on the refugee side in the Statement and the policy statement. However, I have some very deep concerns around the asylum side of this. I would almost divide it into one half good, one half bad. The specific question I would like to ask today is this: under the Government’s proposals, the route by which people seeking asylum arrive in the UK will be indicative of the leave they are granted and the support they receive throughout their time. What basic support package, even if less generous, will be available to those granted temporary protection for two and a half years, to ensure that they do not face destitution? How will such temporary systems enable effective integration, which is one of the things that the Statement and the policy statement seek to achieve? I look forward to some robust discussions with the Minister in the future.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I have been most grateful for the discussions that the right reverend Prelate and I have had on this subject, particularly around integration and community sponsorship. For all that we talk about the laudable Dubs scheme, very few people—the right reverend Prelate excepted—have made reference to this. It will integrate people into communities very quickly and smoothly; it is such a commendable scheme. I thank the Church of England, and indeed the Catholic Church, for the role they have played in it.

As for accommodation and destitution, of course we are not a country that would legislate to enable people to be made destitute, but what we seek through the consultation is quite broad. We do not want to pre-empt what the consultation might throw up. For accommodation, we have Home Office accommodation that we have used, and we have had to use temporary accommodation throughout the pandemic. I will be very interested, as I am sure the right reverend Prelate will, in what the consultation yields for us to consider.

[Baroness Ludford (LD) [V]]

My Lords, if, as the Home Secretary asserts, the UK asylum system is collapsing, why is there such dysfunction in the Home Office that it cannot process an annual 20,000 to 30,000 claims—which is not overwhelming—efficiently and fairly? Is not the only outcome of penalising asylum applicants arriving irregularly—which is not illegal, so it would be a breach of the refugee convention—to create an insecure, impoverished group of vulnerable people who cannot be removed? How can that possibly help the situation?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The answer to the second question is that criminality is what yields the worst outcome for people genuinely claiming asylum. Either they do not get here because they drown at sea, or their money gets taken from them and they are left in a very precarious position. Therefore, the safe and legal ambition of the Home Office is to try to come down hard on criminals, while also protecting people who genuinely need asylum here. The noble Baroness asks about the claims, and why we cannot process them quickly. That is exactly what we are aiming to do through our new asylum system—through the one-step process—so that people cannot bring vexatious claims time and time again, including on the steps of a plane. We will be able process people much more quickly. This House has constantly pressed me on this, and I do not disagree: why can we not deport people quickly and why can we not process claims quickly? That is precisely what is outlined in our new plans.

[Baroness Verma (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it is really time now to rethink how we spend money in countries where there is need for investment—whether in development or through the Foreign Office in relationship building—so that people do not feel desperate to leave their shores to come across dangerous channels? Maybe a real rethink needs to happen across government and all sectors involved in supporting refugees when they do get here. For those who have come here, will my noble friend the Minister consider, rather than not helping, skilling them up so that when they are returned home they have a skill to offer in the countries they come from, are not minded to leave their countries of origin, and instead stay there and build those countries up?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My noble friend makes two very important points. There is an assumption sometimes that asylum seekers are poor and without skills—that is absolutely not the case. Many are incredibly skilled. One of the conversations I had with the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham was about how people can get straight into the immigration system should they have the skills we require. Also, on my noble friend’s point about spending money in other countries, not only is it a good idea to help people in their country of origin, many of them want to stay in their country of origin and do not want to come here. A pound spent in a country of origin is spent far more efficiently in terms of the number of people you can help.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, we should perhaps reflect on the comments just made by the Minister in the light of the cut to overseas development aid. I am sure the Minister is aware that asylum applications fell by 18% in 2020 and, in the year ending September 2020, the UK received 31,752 asylum applications from main applicants. The comparable figure for Germany is 155,000, for France 129,000, for Spain 128,000 and for Greece 81,000. Does the Minister agree that the UK is taking less than its fair share of people fleeing war and political turmoil—often related to our foreign policies—and people fleeing areas from which, during its colonial history, Britain extracted huge amounts of wealth? Perhaps the scheme has been affected by Covid-19, but are the Government looking to significantly step up the number to what might be said to be a fair share compared to other European states?

The Refugee Council briefing on this Statement, which I am sure many Members of your Lordships’ House have seen, is expressed in very careful, factual language, but it can be described only as a cry of horror about the policies contained in this Statement. I turn to just one area, that of age assessments.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

Okay. On age assessments, how can the Minister say that it is fair to put 18 years of age as the cut-off point when it is obvious that people coming from war zones, having grown up and spent their whole lives in them, are not going to look like 18 year-olds who have been brought up in comfortable circumstances in a safe environment?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I will answer two of those questions. Eighteen is the cut-off age because 18 is the age of an adult, and we do not want adults sharing classrooms with young children, for example. It is important to assess people’s ages, and we will try to do so on a more scientific basis. The noble Baroness is absolutely right that applications fell in 2020. We had a pandemic and everything fell in 2020—so did returns. I am sure that the applications will be back up this year.

[Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]]

In the recent past, the Government have closed down two safe and legal routes for unaccompanied child refugees to reach this country from the continent—the Dubs amendment and the provisions under the Dublin treaty. How can the Minister reconcile closing down those routes with the claim that the Government want only safe and legal routes for people to come to this country? She has made that virtually impossible. Are not the Government getting very close to saying that family reunion will depend on the method by which somebody arrived in the UK, not the merits of their case? Surely we are turning the clock back in a most retrograde manner.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I disagree that we have closed down routes. The Dubs scheme specified a number, which was subsequently increased to 480. It was based on the ability of local authorities to take children—the noble Lord shakes his head, but he knows that. We did not close it down; we successfully completed it. As for Dublin, we left the European Union, so we were never going to continue it. As I said during the passage of the immigration Bill, all the routes would continue to be open and we are now in consultation on what our new sovereign borders and immigration system will look like.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I hope that my noble friend will forgive me for being specific and parochial, because I am sure that she will agree that any long-term immigration policy must allow for the free movement of people who have legitimate work to do for British employers. Those who grow our fruit and flowers have this year not been able to get the regular supply of labour on which their industry depends. I am particularly mindful of south Lincolnshire. The local television programmes night after night during the Easter period showed fields of rotting daffodils. This is a tiny thing in comparison with what many of my colleagues have raised, but it is important. Can she assure me that everything will be done to ensure that a genuine free movement of labour of people who have regular jobs to do will be able to continue?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, our new immigration system is skills-based. Free movement obviously ended under our leaving the EU. I empathise with my noble friend’s point, but the whole world is about to enter a period of economic challenge. It behoves employers in this country to employ people from this country to do the jobs needed in this country.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, are you there? We have had problems contacting you.

Extradition Act 2003 (Codes of Practice and Transit Code of Practice) Order 2021

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That the draft Order laid before the House on 22 February be approved.

Relevant document: 48th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the order will update our existing codes of practice for police powers under the Extradition Act 2003 and introduce a new code of practice for non-UK extradition transit. First, I will deal with the codes covering police powers. These revised codes of practice govern the way in which the police use their powers under Part 4 of the Extradition Act. They relate to search and seizure, applications for warrants and production orders, entry to premises and the treatment of detained persons after arrest in extradition cases.

The updated codes take account of changes which have been made to the relevant Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 codes of practice, commonly known as PACE codes, on which the extradition codes of practice are based. They also incorporate necessary changes brought about by the new power of arrest granted in the Extradition (Provisional Arrest) Act 2020. The codes of practice currently in use were published in September 2011. These changes therefore bring the codes fully up to date, providing operational clarity for policing. Amendments have also been made to set out more clearly the procedural rights for individuals on arrest and throughout the subsequent extradition proceedings.

The code of practice for non-UK extradition transit will provide the basis for transit through the UK in extradition cases. This will enable the UK to fulfil certain treaty obligations, including those established as part of the new surrender arrangements with the European Union. Extradition transit occurs when a country allows an individual who is being extradited to pass through its territory, while remaining in police custody, where a direct route between the countries concerned with the extradition request is not possible.

As the House will know, the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 made amendments to the Extradition Act 2003, setting out the legal basis to enable people being extradited from one third country to another to transit through the United Kingdom. Those provisions cannot be commenced without this code of practice coming into operation to underpin them. The code therefore sets out the appropriate powers and guidance for UK police to facilitate this operational activity as necessary.

Commencing these transit provisions is important for the UK so that we can comply with our treaty obligations, as I have outlined, and to assist our international extradition partners in bringing fugitives to justice. They are particularly important at this time, when travel and modes of transport are disrupted and restricted by the current pandemic.

The House will want to know that any decision to grant a request for transit is discretionary. It would be considered only if the requesting country and destination country were ones that we would regularly extradite to and where we have international obligations that require us to do so. A risk assessment in consultation with law enforcement partners and Border Force is also required before any request can be granted.

Both codes being presented today have been the subject of public consultation, as well as detailed consultation with operational partners, including law enforcement, Border Force and the devolved Administrations, and have been updated to take consultation responses into account. The codes will provide a comprehensive and accessible resource for operational partners. For individuals subject to extradition, they will act as a reference to their rights. The legislation will further ensure that there is no disparity between our international obligations and domestic law.

If this statutory instrument is approved by Parliament, these codes will be brought into operation on 1 May 2021. I commend the order to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank everyone who has spoken in this debate. I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, because I did not hear part of his speech. However, he asked about changes in extradition practices. The principles of extradition remain the same, although clearly there are countries that we may add or subtract.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked how many countries we extradite to. I do not have the total in my head, but he can see that in the list of Part 1 and Part 2 countries. My noble friend also asked whether our practices were compatible with human rights. Yes, that is a clear principle of our extradition approach.

My noble friend Lady Wheatcroft asked about extradition to the US. The US-UK treaty is out of the scope of this debate, but clearly we would, if appropriate, seek death penalty assurances from the US. It would not depend on the issue; we would seek those assurances. In terms of transit, we will not transfer either to or from a country with human rights abuses.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, asked about the police. We have extensively consulted them and they are content. As the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, said, silence on any matter means that they refer to the PACE codes. The noble Baroness also asked about asylum seekers. This extradition process is a very clear court process by which we would return or receive someone to face sentence either here or in another country. Anyone who wishes to seek asylum obviously can do so when they arrive in this country. However, this order is not predominantly about asylum seekers but about a court process.

The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, asked about various processes. There are two main changes. The updated extradition codes of practice take account of changes made to the relevant PACE codes on which the extradition codes of practice are based. While police practice is always to refer to them as recent PACE codes, as the noble Lord pointed out, the draft codes of practice have been updated to reflect the most recent amendments to the PACE codes. As he said, most amendments are in respect of PACE code C, which deals with arrest, detention and treatment of persons detained under the 2003 Act. There are also some amendments in respect of PACE code D, which applies to the identification of persons detained under the 2003 Act.

The second change, the new power of arrest brought about by the Extradition (Provisional Arrest) Act 2020, applies only to Part 2 of the 2003 Act. The provision applies only in principle to a specific and limited number of Part 2 countries—the Five Eyes countries, Switzerland and Liechtenstein—meaning that the number of arrests that would rely on it would be relatively low. However, it is essential that the revision to police powers in the 2003 Act is appropriately reflected in updated codes of practice at the earliest opportunity.

In terms of transit arrangements, a request for extradition transit from any country is subject to approval. The usual safeguards concerning human rights compatibility continue to apply in all extradition cases. Requests for transit that concern countries outside the European Union will be considered by the Secretary of State for the Home Department and the policy set out in the overseas security and justice assistance—OSJA—guidance must be applied where necessary. We would expect to proceed only if the requesting country and destination countries are ones that we would regularly extradite to and where we have international obligations that require us to do so: that is, the provision will be used only for extraditions taking place according to a treaty or on a similar international legal basis.

Transit would also be refused if the person has already been convicted for the same offence in the UK or another country on the grounds of double jeopardy or if a person has been, or could be, sentenced to death. Additionally, when considering any request, key risks or concerns will be considered before a decision is made. These include risks to the person in transit or to others. This would be assessed from information concerning the relevant offence, any history of violent behaviour and any significant health issues that it is mandatory for the requesting country to provide.

I turn to other questions. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked about the Minister in the Commons who said that the new arrangements were working fairly well. I cannot comment on what was in his mind, but I shall study the relevant Hansard and return to the noble Lord in writing. He asked whether the arrangements were already in operation or had just been brought in. These codes will be brought in on the passage of this statutory instrument. The noble Lord also asked for a letter from the Commons Minister when it is ready. Yes, definitely. He mentioned some countries that would not allow extradition. There are a few countries that will not allow the extradition of their own nationals. In those situations, the individuals are tried in their own country and remedies sought thereafter.

The last question was why this legislation had taken so long to come into force. Legislation passed in 2014 made amendments to the Extradition Act 2003. Provisions were not commenced earlier, partly due to the competing policy and parliamentary priorities that I mentioned in the debate on the previous statutory instrument, and also due to complexities in determining how transit should best operate in practice. I am pleased to say that those issues are now resolved.

If I have not addressed any questions, I will do so in writing.

Motion agreed.

Registration of Marriages Regulations 2021

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 22 February be approved.

Relevant document: 48th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, these regulations amend the Marriage Act 1949 to enable the introduction of a schedule-based system for the registration of marriages in England and Wales, which will reform the way in which marriages are registered in the future.

Couples will sign a marriage schedule at their marriage ceremony instead of a paper marriage register, and all marriages will be registered by registration officers in a single electronic marriage register. For marriages taking place in the Church of England or the Church in Wales, after ecclesiastical preliminaries an equivalent document called a “marriage document” will be issued. This will remove the requirement for the 84,000 paper registers currently in use in register offices and around 30,000 religious buildings.

It should be noted that a schedule system is already in place in Scotland—this has been the case since 1855 —and in Northern Ireland. When civil partnerships were introduced in England and Wales in 2005, the opportunity was taken to modernise the registration process and use a schedule-based system. Civil partnerships have always been registered in an electronic register.

Modernising the registration process facilitates updating the marriage entry to allow for the details of both parents of the couple to be recorded instead of just the father’s name and occupation, as is currently the case. Moving to a schedule-based system is the most cost-effective way to achieve this change and will make the system of registration more secure and efficient.

The regulations amend the seldom-used Marriage of British Subjects (Facilities) Acts 1915 and 1916 so that they no longer apply in England and Wales. The regulations also make a consequential amendment under Section 5 of the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Act 2020 to amend the Marriage Act to specify the evidence that must be provided by an individual when giving notice of a marriage for immigration purposes. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. One of the most common questions, put by the noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady Kennedy, and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, is why it has taken so long to see any action on this point. The Home Office has been considering options for updating the marriage entry to include the mother’s name, but it has not been straightforward. Any changes obviously require funding, system changes and legislation, all of which must be considered before bringing forward any proposals. Of course, we have had the huge matters of Brexit and the pandemic to contend with. The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked about the date of implementation. That was announced when the regulations were laid, on 22 February. That was seen as a good time, before we move into peak wedding season, to bring forward these changes. I suspect that a backlog of marriages is about to come forward.

The noble Baroness also asked about the Church. I take the opportunity to thank the Church of England, in particular the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans; I know that officials from the Church of England and the Church in Wales have been working closely with us throughout the policy development. They are very much in favour of these reforms because they will bring a number of efficiencies to the existing registration process. They have been very positive indeed. I can also tell the noble Baroness that the guidance for clergy will go out as soon as possible. The term “clergy” is a long-standing one and we have left as it stands. However, I understand the point she made.

The noble Baroness also asked about the various “what ifs” in terms of the timeline. If the schedule or the document is not returned to the register office within the specific timescale, the superintendent registrar will contact the relevant person to advise that the marriage must be registered and to make arrangements for that to happen. It will be an offence not to return the signed schedule or document to the register office. Regarding what would happen if it gets lost or damaged in the post, if the document is damaged before it has been registered by the registrar general, if they are satisfied that the marriage has been solemnised, they will authorise the schedule document to be reproduced and arrangements will be made with the couple, their witnesses and the person or persons who officiated at the marriage to sign another schedule or document, so that the marriage can be registered and the marriage certificate issued.

The noble Lord, Lord Hussain, and the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, made very good points about the legality of marriages in the Muslim community. We heard a lot about this issue when considering the Domestic Abuse Bill—people with a niqab not having their marriage legalised, and the problems that that can cause. I recognise the point that was made. Of course, these regulations are only about marriage registration and not wider marriage law. I will write to the noble Baroness regarding the progress of coronial inquests into stillbirth because I do not have the up-to-date position on the timelines.

My noble friend Lord Lucas asked about where weddings can take place. As far as I know, weddings can be held in an awful lot of places; we are spoilt for choice. However, I will write to him if I have any further updates. I can also say to the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, that question and answer sessions will be taking place in April on this issue.

The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, was asking about the difference in systems. As a Catholic, I know that there has always been a difference in systems. The C of E is, obviously, the established Church. We have not removed the ecclesiastical preliminaries for the Church. The marriage document will contain the same information as the marriage schedule, and we are not introducing universal civil preliminaries; we are just keeping in place what is already in place for the Church of England. He also asked me—this is not part of the regulations, I think—about the other obligations on a prospective spouse. Clearly, there are rules on salary specifically for residency.

I think that covers about everything, but if I have not covered anything I shall write to noble Lords. I finish by thanking my noble friend Lady Hodgson for the work she has done on this. I also particularly thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans, the Church of England and the indomitable Linda Edwards, who has aided so efficiently the passage of what is, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said, a welcome statutory instrument.

Motion agreed.

Forensic Science Regulator Bill

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 19th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, for bringing forward this Bill and the noble Lord, Lord Patel, for acknowledging our efforts in that regard. I also acknowledge his point about sufficient resourcing. I understand that the regulator’s office will receive £220,000 per year, with any top-ups coming out of Home Office budgets. He and the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, also made the point about how much further we could go. That is right, but the Bill is a good step forward and very much meets the golden rule of Private Members’ Bills, which is to keep them simple.

The noble Lord, Lord Oates, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, asked why it has taken so long. As the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, said, it was first pledged by the Government in 2016. It had a few rocky experiences and, ultimately, is now back as a Private Member’s Bill. I think it was the Private Member’s Bill in the 2017-19 Session that failed, but I am very glad that it is back here with us today.

As the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said, forensic science is one of policing’s most important tools for investigating crime. The prosecution of, for example, county lines crime and violent crimes such as knife crime heavily relies on good-quality forensics, including digital forensics and DNA. It helps us to avoid exoneration of the guilty and, of course, miscarriage of justice to the innocent. To go straight to the point of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, upholding quality standards in forensic science is therefore vital to confidence in those criminal justice outcomes.

On the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Harris of Richmond, confidence in the application of the underlying science depends on providers’ adherence to the regulator’s codes of practice, whether they are employed directly by police forces or privately contracted. The Government have therefore committed to putting the regulator on a statutory footing. We want the regulator to act when it has reason to believe that forensic science activities create a substantial risk to the course of justice.

The Bill establishes the regulator as a statutory officeholder. With statutory powers, the regulator would, as a last resort, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said, be able to issue compliance notices against forensic providers who are failing to meet the required quality standards, and thus protect the criminal justice system. The Bill requires the regulator to publish and keep under review a code of practice covering forensic science activities in England and Wales. The code does not have to provide for every forensic science activity and may make different provisions for different types of activity—for example, depending on whether the process is being performed at a crime scene or in a laboratory.

The Bill also confers on the regulator the power to investigate a forensic science activity to which the regulator’s code of practice applies, if the regulator believes that the activity is being carried out in a way that risks adversely affecting an investigation or impeding or prejudicing the course of justice in England and Wales. It further provides that the regulator may bring injunction proceedings to compel a person to comply with a requirement to provide information or documents under the Bill.

The power to investigate is crucial to the regulator’s ability effectively to enforce quality standards and adherence to a statutory code of practice. Without this power, the regulator would not be able to identify instances of bad practice or to work with forensic providers to put things right. If the regulator believes that an activity to which the code of practice applies is being carried out in a way that risks adversely affecting an investigation, or impeding or prejudicing the course of justice in England and Wales, it can give the person performing the activity a compliance notice. If that person does not comply, the regulator may bring proceedings for an injunction to secure compliance. The Bill also makes provision for the regulator to prepare and publish guidance or reports on, and provide advice relating to, forensic science activities in England and Wales.

The noble Baroness, Lady Harris of Richmond, talked about the decision to close the Forensic Science Service in 2012. It was closed because, by 2010, it was losing an estimated £2 million a month—and that was taxpayers’ money, of course. Although this was not the reason for its closure, there were many forensic science failings in the FSS, which led to multiple case reviews and retesting programmes. That picks up some of the points made by noble Lords. We do not intend to reopen the FSS. We also agree that a voluntary system is not working, hence the Bill before us.

I was asked about the future reform programme in forensic science. Last July, we presented to the Criminal Justice Board plans for reform to deliver strategic oversight and leadership for the future of forensics. Since then, we have set out four key pillars of the forensic science reform programme: police capability; regulation of provision; CJS capability; and research and development. This work is being progressed with the Ministry of Justice, the regulator’s office and other stakeholders.

On capabilities, we have invested £28.6 million to accelerate innovation and combat crime across England and Wales. The Forensic Capability Network is providing police forces with specialist support functions. A digital forensic science strategy was published last summer. A workforce strategy has also been developed; this will help to identify the direction of future workforce demands in forensic science.

The Home Office is leading on an objective to increase confidence in the science entering the CJS by supporting the Bill. We have ensured that clauses on data extraction are included through the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill; they will clarify the legal basis for data extraction from digital devices with the agreement of the user. Officials in the Ministry of Justice are working to increase the transparency around expert witnesses’ credentials and ensure that defendants have equal access to experts. We also aim to identify current and future research and development needs. We have already identified existing funding streams and gathered information on areas of research interest through engagement with stakeholders.

I am very grateful for the cross-party support in the House and the support of the National Police Chiefs’ Council for the Bill and these vital measures. Before I close, I want to pay tribute to Dr Gillian Tully, now the former regulator, for her invaluable work while in the role. It is my hope that her successor will be able to benefit from these powers and continue to drive up standards in forensic science in England and Wales.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 17th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in what has been an incredibly thoughtful debate, and I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of Cradley, for her rather timely retabling of this amendment, which in Committee was tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool. The noble Baroness has highlighted how the collection of data could add to our understanding of the nature of hate crimes against women and thereby find ways of tackling it, and I agree on that. Perhaps I may make it absolutely clear to the noble Baroness that we are more than willing to engage on the issue of data collection. Not only is it crucial to our understanding of the issue, it will enable us to find solutions to some of the problems we face.

I have read the article about Sue Fish’s appearance on “Woman’s Hour”. I was rather taken aback that the woman who had instigated the collection of data in Nottingham said that she would be reluctant to come forward about something that happened to her personally because of some of the prejudice that she felt she might face. That should give us all pause for thought about the issue at hand.

I join with other noble Lords in being appalled and shocked at the killing of Sarah Everard, and again our thoughts and prayers are with her family and friends. As the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, has pointed out, criminal proceedings are under way, but this brings into sharp focus the need to protect women and girls from violence. The Government are of course deeply committed to tackling all forms of violence against women and girls, and this Bill is a testament to that. We have also brought forward a number of measures in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, which just last week was introduced in the House of Commons, to strengthen the management of sex offenders and those who pose a risk.

I agree with my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham, who said that we should not react in a knee-jerk way. I do not think that we have done that in this Bill, but I have given this issue much thought. We need to do more to keep women and girls safe from harassment, abuse, sexual and other violence, That is why in December we launched a call for evidence to inform our forthcoming Ending Violence Against Women and Girls strategy. When it closed last month, it had already received more than 19,000 responses, and in recognition of the renewed debate on women’s safety in recent days, we have now reopened it for a further two weeks to 26 March. We have already received over 120,000 responses and I would encourage the public to share their views. We will use the responses to develop a strategy to better target perpetrators and to support victims and survivors. Our aim is to publish the new strategy by the summer.

I cannot but agree wholeheartedly that all hate crimes are abhorrent and should be dealt with using the full force of the law, regardless of gender or any other characteristic. I made the position of the Government quite plain in Committee that all crimes motivated by hatred are totally unacceptable and have no place in our society. I also set out that this was the reason why, in 2018, as part of the Government’s updating of our hate crime action plan, we asked the Law Commission to undertake a review of the current hate crime legislation. This includes a review of whether other protected characteristics such as sex, gender and age should be included.

During the course of the review in 2019 and last year, the Law Commission organised events across England and Wales, speaking to as many people as possible who have an interest in this area of the law. We asked the commission to look at the current range of offences and aggravating factors in sentencing, and to make recommendations on the most appropriate models to ensure that the criminal law provides consistent and effective protection from conduct motivated by hatred towards protected groups or characteristics. In addition, the review took account of the existing range of protected characteristics to identify potential gaps in the legislation so that the review could make recommendations to ensure consistency of approach. As noble Lords will know, the consultation of the Law Commission to support the review closed in December. In that consultation, it focused on the issue of whether sex or gender should be added to hate crime law, noting that adding misogyny by itself might introduce inconsistencies to hate crime laws.

The Law Commission has pointed out that this is complex. Its consultation has highlighted a number of issues that need further consideration to ensure that adding sex or gender to the hate crime framework brings greater rather than less effectiveness to the law. This includes ensuring that linking domestic abuse and sex-based hostility does not create a hierarchy of harm in those cases of abuse where a sex-based hostility is more difficult to demonstrate and is seen as being less important. The Law Commission also talked about the need to ensure that the law itself is coherent, which is why it has been discussing the possibility of carve-outs to ensure that domestic abuse legislation does not conflict with how hate crime laws operate. These are just two examples of the complexity of this issue that the Law Commission is still working through.

I shall go back to the point made by my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham. Before we make long-term decisions on changes to police recording practices in this area, I still think that we should wait for the outcome of the Law Commission’s review, which is an in-depth and wide-ranging one into the complex area of hate crime. Moreover, I do not think that further legislation is required. Section 44 of the Police Act 1996 already allows the Secretary of State to require chief officers of police to provide information relating to policing in their area. This might include statistical or other information related to policing, crime and disorder. It provides the statutory basis for the annual data requirement from police forces in England and Wales, which includes recorded hate crime.

While the amendment is not needed, as the necessary powers are already in place to require forces to provide information of this kind, we agree that data can be helpful and we know that some police forces like Nottingham are already collecting it. I advise the House that, on an experimental basis, we will ask police forces to identify and record any crimes of violence against the person, including stalking and harassment, as well as sexual offences where the victim perceives it to have been motivated by a hostility based on their sex. As I have said, this can then inform longer-term decisions once we have considered the recommendations made by the Law Commission. We will shortly begin the consultation with the National Police Chiefs’ Council and forces on this with a view to commencing the experimental collection of data from this autumn.

In response to the question put by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and the noble Lords, Lord Russell and Lord Paddick, the detail of the consultation is still to be worked through. That is not to exclude gender, but just to say that the detail remains to be worked out. In giving this undertaking and in the knowledge that the necessary legislation is already in place, I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, will be happy to withdraw her amendment.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

I have received two requests to speak after the Minister, from the noble Lords, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Russell of Liverpool. I will call them in that order.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I warmly thank my noble friend Lady Kennedy and the Minister for her response. Can the Minister confirm that the Nottinghamshire Police official definition is the following:

“Incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman and includes behaviour targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman”?


I take it that there is no question of introducing the sex or gender terminology used in this amendment, which is different from the amendment moved in Committee, and has certainly not been endorsed by the Law Commission.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, is absolutely correct about what Nottinghamshire Police records. I cannot confirm what the conclusion will ultimately be, but I have said that I will consult.

[Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB)]

I thank the Minister very much for that helpful response. I would like clarification on how we are going to proceed. Does she agree that the police forces currently recording crimes such as misogyny are doing so slightly differently in each case, because each police force has decided to interpret it in its own way? What the Minister’s department is about do to with the National Police Chiefs’ Council is to look at the different ways different police forces currently collect this data. I imagine she will also work with the Law Commission to take into account its evidence taken on sex and gender and its interim recommendations. Therefore, she will come out with a clarification of the guidance to be given to all police forces in England and Wales.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

I can confirm that to the noble Lord. I think a bit of consistency here would be very helpful to give us the information we seek.

[Baroness Kennedy of Cradley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken today, in particular the noble Lords, Lord Russell of Liverpool and Lord Young of Cookham, who championed this amendment in Committee and again in this debate. I also pay tribute to the many campaigners and women who have taken time to contact noble Lords, as outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham. I also pay tribute to my colleagues in the other place, namely the Member of Parliament for Walthamstow, Stella Creasy, and the Member of Parliament for Birmingham Yardley, Jess Phillips, for all their determined work in fighting for action to end violence against women and girls.

I particularly agree with the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham. This data would add to the Law Commission’s consultation and broaden the evidence base to allow us to move forward. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, who gave us a poignant reminder of the shocking figure of the number of women who have lost their lives since we started the debate. I agree with his assessment that this amendment would help us deal with the culture of misogyny and sexism in our country.

Regarding the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, I respect his knowledge and experience as a former serving police officer. His insight is invaluable, and I hope he will support the offer from the Minister today and agree that this is a first step to record data. If data is not recorded, it is hidden. Data shines a light on an issue and allows it to be addressed. I will be with him, by his side, in future legislation to ensure that misogyny becomes a hate crime, which I believe the majority of the House wishes to see.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, for reminding us to think of the victims of the Atlanta shooting—our thoughts are with them—and for her clear explanation of her support and of why and how the work of Nottinghamshire Police has been important. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Grey- Thompson: women are tired—tired of changing our behaviour to keep ourselves safe.

Therefore, I thank the Minister for her response and her confirmation that, starting this autumn, the Government will require police forces to record and flag any crimes of violence against the person, including stalking, harassment and sexual offences, where the victim perceives it as motivated by sex and gender-based hostility. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Russell of Liverpool, for seeking that clarification. This commitment is extremely welcome.

In the police forces already doing this, not only has it helped with detecting crime, it has helped with confidence in the police and changing the culture within the police about how to deal with violence against women. I thank the noble Baroness for confirming that the Government will move forward in this way and thank her for the way she has, as always, sought to engage positively with Members of this House to reach a consensus.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab) [V]]

My noble friend Lady Lister said at Second Reading that

“the Bill should state explicitly that the statutory guidance must take account of the VAWG strategy. Failure to do so ignores the reality of women’s experiences”.—[Official Report, 5/1/21; col. 40.]

On that day in January, we could not have predicted that the violent reality of women’s experiences would be brought into such sharp relief by the terrible tragedy of the abduction and murder of Sarah Everard last week and the subsequent scenes of protest by women across the United Kingdom.

Many decades ago, I taught at Priory Park School in Clapham. I lived in Helix Road in Brixton and walked those same streets as a young woman. They are some of the capital’s most populated, brightly lit and well-walked paths. Women across the country took to social media to discuss their experiences of walking the streets and the lengths that they went to in feeling safe. Many testimonies exposed stories of being followed, harassed, catcalled, assaulted and exposed to by men. In the year to last March, 207 women were killed in Great Britain and 57% of female victims were killed by someone they knew—most commonly a partner or ex-partner.

The Prime Minister said about the Sarah Everard tragedy that her death

“must unite us in determination to drive out violence against women and girls and make every part of the criminal justice system work to protect and defend them.”

I respectfully suggest to Mr Johnson that he begins by looking at some of the legislation already passed by the Welsh Government in this area. Their Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015 required local authorities and health boards to prepare a strategy to tackle violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence.

As the leader of Newport, my cabinet approved the Gwent VAWDASV strategy in May 2018. It contained six regional priorities that are today being delivered locally. It is a tangible and practical application of lawmaking, which is helping to change perceptions and promote recognition of such suffering in our society. In this House and from this shadow Front Bench, I am determined to keep making those differences to people’s lives in the wider context of the UK Government’s ability to make laws that will help to prevent domestic abuse and support the survivors of such abuse. I strongly support the inclusion of Amendment 91 in the Bill.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I start by acknowledging the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, on what Helena Edwards said—that is something upon which we should all reflect.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, said, Amendment 91 relates to the linkages between domestic abuse and wider violence against women and girls. The Government are working on two new strategies, due to be published later this year, the first of which is a violence against women and girls strategy, replacing the old one, which expired in March 2020, followed by a complementary domestic abuse strategy. The amendment seeks to ensure that any guidance issued under Clause 73 of the Bill takes into account

“any strategy to end violence against women and girls adopted by a Minister of the Crown.”

The main concerns raised by proponents of the amendment centre around the Government’s decision not to produce a single, integrated violence against women and girls strategy that includes domestic abuse. This has wrongly been interpreted as an attempt to downplay the gendered nature of domestic abuse.

It is irrefutable that, while anyone can be a victim of domestic abuse, it is a crime of which the majority of victims are women. We recognise the gendered nature of domestic abuse, and the Bill acknowledges this in Clause 73(3), which provides:

“Any guidance issued under this section must ... take account of the fact that the majority of victims of domestic abuse ... are female.”


The draft guidance we have published does just that. We have been clear that the two strategies will complement each other and that the Government fully recognise that domestic abuse is a subset of violence against women and girls.

The Bill is focused on domestic abuse, and for good reason. Domestic abuse is one of the most common crime types, with 2.3 million victims a year, and the cause of tackling it and providing better support and protection for victims is deserving and indeed requires its own Bill, commissioner and strategy. We are producing a separate but complementary domestic abuse strategy in order to continue working on the excellent provisions created by the Bill because, as I have said, domestic abuse deserves this unique consideration.

I reiterate that, in producing a discrete domestic abuse strategy, the intention is to create space to focus on this high-harm and high-prevalence form of VAWG, while allowing space for other VAWG crimes to be considered as part of the VAWG strategy. The two strategies will work together to drive down VAWG crimes and their impact on society, and both strategies will continue to recognise the gendered nature of these crimes. As I have said, the strategies will complement each other and share much of the same framework and evidence.

We recently concluded the call for evidence for the violence against women and girls strategy, through which we also welcomed evidence on domestic abuse. However, as I said in the previous debate—I now have an updated figure—we have reopened the call for evidence for two weeks to allow a further opportunity for everyone’s voice to be heard. As of last night, the call for evidence had received just shy of an incredible 137,000 responses, and I hope that we will now receive many more.

As such, we fully acknowledge the direct link between domestic abuse and violence against women and girls, but the Government do not think that this amendment is necessary or appropriate for a domestic abuse Bill. The Bill already recognises the gendered nature of domestic abuse, and we do not think that a reference to a separate VAWG strategy is directly relevant to the Bill. If it were to refer to any strategy, it should be the planned domestic abuse strategy, but, for the avoidance of doubt, I am not advocating an amendment to this effect.

I do not think that I have persuaded the noble Baroness; I hope that I have and that she will be content to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

I thank noble Lords and all who spoke in support of this amendment. I was puzzled by the intervention of the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, because most of it did not seem to be relevant to this amendment at all. I am even more puzzled and disappointed by the Minister’s response—I think she knew very well how I would respond. As far as I can see, the arguments have not moved on since Committee, whereas our argument has.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Watkins of Tavistock) (CB)]

I call the Minister to respond. Are you there?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My host muted me and I could not unmute—I apologise for that temporary blip that delayed my response.

On the question about whether it will be explicitly referenced, I say that the two are so closely interlinked. The noble Baroness asked that question in all good faith, so I will write to her, telling her and giving detail on how one will reference the other.

Amendment 91 withdrawn.

Police: Sarah Everard Vigils

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 17th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I draw attention to my interest in the register and beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has said, she met Commissioner Dame Cressida Dick last Friday and over the weekend to discuss the vigil. Her view that the images from Saturday are upsetting is a matter of public record and she has asked for an independent review into the matter.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab) [V]]

Ministers have made it clear for months that there should be a tougher approach to Black Lives Matter, climate emergency and anti-lockdown demonstration, and all that is reflected in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill. Operational independence does not preclude Ministers, PCCs or mayors from providing advice to police leaders on how their actions will be seen and on the community effect of operational decisions. That is what political oversight is all about, so what advice did the Home Secretary offer on this occasion? When she and the commissioner spoke by telephone while the ugly scenes on Clapham Common were taking place, what did they talk about—the weather?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I will quote directly from the Home Secretary, who said:

“It is right that I have had many discussions with the Metropolitan police and specifically the commissioner on Friday and over the weekend in relation to preparations and planning prior to Saturday evening. My comments are public and on the record regarding what has happened and, quite frankly, the upsetting images of Saturday evening. A review is now being conducted by Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary. It is right that that takes place.”—[Official Report, Commons, 15/3/21; col 29.]


The noble Lord talks about operational independence. It is absolutely right that the police have operational independence, but it is also absolutely right that, first, the Government make the law and, secondly, that conversations take place between the Executive and some of the agencies of government.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, as the day wears on, many protests give rise to excesses all round. My family tells me that, this Sunday afternoon, the police were courteous but firm. Was it the Government’s purpose in their regulations to ban all protests? If so, will they now regulate to preserve the right of protest, so that both police and the public are able to return to normality?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, noble Lords will recognise that banning protests was not at the heart of what the Government did; banning protests was part of keeping the public safe in this global pandemic—keeping down the numbers of people who get infected and therefore keeping people out of hospital.

[Lord Paddick (LD) [V]]

My Lords, last week, Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services published a report that found that,

“when forces do not accurately assess the level of disruption caused, or likely to be caused, by a protest, the balance may tip too readily in favour of protesters.”

The author, Matt Parr, a former Royal Navy officer, is currently suing the Home Office, claiming that he is being paid less than a colleague because he is a white man. Politically, do the Government believe that the rear-admiral is the best person, and HMICFRS the best organisation, to be conducting the so-called independent review into the protests by women on Clapham Common, in the light of its recent report and the tribunal action?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

On the noble Lord’s former point, this is obviously an equal pay matter and that process will take its path. I think that HMICFRS is the right organisation to investigate, because it is the body that we would appoint to do such work.

[Lord Wasserman (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend the Minister and her ministerial colleagues in the Home Office on giving police and crime commissioners their unequivocal support for the internal review of PCCs, the findings of which were announced earlier this week. I express my hope that the electorate across England and Wales will be encouraged by this review to turn out and vote on 6 May for their local PCC. Given that it now appears that PCCs will be with us for some time, does the Minister agree that PCCs should make it a priority to develop close working relationships with their chief constables so that the operational decisions of their chiefs on matters such as the policing of vigils and other major events are publicly supported by the local PCC on the basis that they had been fully consulted about them beforehand?

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

Before the Minister responds, could I ask noble Lords to please keep their questions brief?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his kind words, and of course PCCs have our full support. It is absolutely crucial that the various agencies communicate with each other when such events are to take place and that PCCs are fully keyed into those events. For the most part, the events held over the weekend went very peacefully.

[Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, vigils were held outside London, including one in Victoria Square in Birmingham. More than 100 people attended and the West Midlands Police responded in a peaceful way. It reinforced its commitment to policing through explanation, engagement, encouragement and using force only as a last resort. When it comes to this kind of operational decision, could I urge the Minister that we should learn the lessons of more peaceful demonstrations and find out why things so clearly went wrong at Clapham Common last Saturday?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

I thank the noble Baroness for that question because it segues quite nicely from the points that I have just made. Yes, most of the events and vigils went peacefully with people socially distancing and the police having no problems at all. I think that the review by Sir Tom Winsor will give us a greater insight into why some things went wrong on Saturday at one particular event.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

On Monday, the Home Secretary told the Commons that the Metropolitan Police Service was “rightly operationally independent.” Given that, what was the purpose of the extensive discussions held by the Home Secretary with the Metropolitan Police Commissioner throughout the weekend on police planning and preparation for the vigil? Was the purpose that the Home Secretary wanted to make sure that the Metropolitan Police would not do anything with which she did not agree?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is absolutely right that the commissioner of the largest police force in the country should keep the Home Secretary up to date, and I know that she speaks with her regularly. That is not so the Home Secretary can dictate what the Metropolitan Police does, but it is very important that the two keep in communication.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD) [V]]

My Lords, is it not now the policy of the police, as in my experience it used to be, to meet the organisers of demos or protests to agree how peaceful protest can legitimately take place?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, in ordinary circumstances and indeed even under Covid restrictions, that would be the case. Clearly, what went wrong on Saturday will be a matter for the review by Sir Tom Winsor.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in wishing my noble friend a speedy return from isolation, could I ask her how many demonstrations took place around the country, how many arrests were made outside London, and whether lessons can please be drawn from this in the future?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I cannot give my noble friend the exact number, but this review will give us a good idea of what lessons can be learned in what are of course very unusual times.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.

Policing and Prevention of Violence against Women

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 16th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I join the noble Lords, Lord Paddick and Lord Rosser, in expressing our thoughts, condolences and prayers to the family of Sarah Everard. Like the noble Lords, when I saw the pictures on Sunday morning and subsequently in the media, it was not just upsetting but really shocking. That is why the Home Secretary has not only asked for a report from the Metropolitan Police but has asked Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary to conduct a review. I can confirm that she had conversations with the commissioner and communicated with her all weekend. In terms of influence, noble Lords will know that the Government do not seek to influence the police. The police are operationally independent of government, and rightly so. I am sure that when the review takes place it will be made public, as the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked.

The noble Lord also made a point about men and wider society, and I could not agree more. Our young boys and growing young men are subjected to more and more malign influences, usually online. My noble friend had a discussion last night—and I thank him for that—about online pornography, which we will be dealing with in the online harms Bill. There is also the issue of what a good, healthy sexual relationship looks like, which schools deal with. I reject the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, that the Government have created this environment. Right from 2010—some 11 years ago—successive Conservative Governments have done so much to end violence against women and girls. We are now considering Report stage of the Domestic Abuse Bill, and I say to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, that I feel there has been an incredibly collaborative approach across the House, with the Government listening very hard and making many concessions throughout the Bill, acknowledging that we are listening and we can make the legislation better.

The noble Lord talked about a register of stalkers; we had a discussion about that as well. As I said yesterday, where we are seeking to get to is no different; it is how we get there. I explained yesterday that I thought that adding a category to the register without dealing with some of the underlying problems in the processes would not solve the problem, but I do not think we disagree that we need to make sure that all people who are at risk of stalking and sexual offending need to be captured under MAPPA and through ViSOR if necessary.

The noble Lord also asked about the perpetrator strategy. We will be issuing the domestic abuse strategy later this year. Of course, it will contain measures to deal with perpetrators because fundamentally, they are the problem underlying domestic abuse. We will not be having a separate strategy, as noble Lords asked, because it is so linked with domestic abuse that it would be wrong to separate it.

The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, talked about not banning gatherings. We have lived through unprecedented times. One of the reasons why I am not speaking in the House is that I have had to self-isolate. So many people have had to give up their freedoms in pursuit of keeping the number of Covid infections low and preventing deaths, and this is only one of those measures.

The noble Lord asked whether HMICFRS is the right organisation to deal with this. I think it is; it is very experienced in this sort of activity. He also made the point, which I wholeheartedly agree with, about knee-jerk responses being the worst type of responses. It is right that we reflect on what has happened and that the review be undertaken. On timescales, I know that the terms of reference and the scope of the review will be dealt with very quickly.

The noble Lord also talked about making misogyny a hate crime. The Law Commission is looking into what types of crimes should be added to the hate crimes list, and it will be deliberating later on this year.

The last point he made is that we need a fundamental culture change. I totally agree. Women should not feel that they cannot walk home alone. It appears that Sarah Everard was not walking home particularly late. Women should not feel that they have to, as my right honourable friend the Home Secretary said, clutch their keys as they walk along the street. Men should respect women. We need to engender a culture of respect.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

We now come to the 20 minutes allocated for Back-Bench questions. I ask that questions and answers be brief so that I can call as many speakers as possible. I call the noble Baroness, Lady Jenkin of Kennington.

[Baroness Jenkin of Kennington (Con) [V]]

My Lords, on 7 March I received an email from a young friend saying “Please help. One of my closest friends from university is missing”, but it turned out that we were all absolutely helpless. I send her and all Sarah Everard’s friends and relations the greatest possible sympathy.

I welcome the review of the policing of the vigil, as we have to get back to the public trusting the police. I also welcome the extension of the consultation into violence against women and girls, and I am glad that so many additional people have engaged in that exercise. My question, to which the Minister has already responded in part, is: how are we to help and prioritise, so that boys can grow up with a healthy attitude towards girls and with respect for them, given how the internet has changed everything beyond recognition in such a short space of time? We have not kept up with this. Only 15 years ago, boys would have had to reach up to the top shelf; now, they have free access to hard-core porn in their pocket, broadcasting violent and rough sex and the subjugation of women, so that it now seems normal to them.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My noble friend and I agree wholeheartedly on this point. The values that you give your children as they are growing up and some of the influences that they see around them shape them as adults. Tragically, there are young boys who grow up now thinking that non-fatal strangulation and violent acts upon women are part of what makes a sexual experience. We all know that sex is bound in love, and you do not show your love towards someone by practically beating them to a pulp or suffocating them. My noble friend is right to raise this question. I am very much looking forward to the online harms Bill, which places on communication services providers a duty of care for their users. That is one part. The other part is some of what children are taught in school and some of what they see at home. We are in the middle of considering the Domestic Abuse Bill. Sadly, some children think that what they see at home is the norm. We need responsibility from not only parents but online providers and society in general.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, we have only 20 minutes for questions and there are 15 more speakers. I know it is difficult, but if we can keep questions and answers brief there are a lot of noble Lords who wish to get in on this important issue.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB) [V]]

Surely what is needed, as the Minister suggested, is a fundamental rethinking by men of their attitude to women. I feel every sympathy with those women who justifiably feel vulnerable and angry at the moment. What practical steps are the Government taking to ensure that more is done about this in schools? The law has only a limited effect; there must be a fundamental change of attitudes, and that begins right in the earliest days at school. Is it worth looking, for instance, at what is being taught under the heading of moral and social education? Is some kind of review of that needed?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

The answer to the noble and right reverend Lord is that we have now made relationship and sex education obligatory in secondary schools, and relationship education is now in primary schools, which is absolutely right. There is more that we could do. This is not just about schools, but perhaps some of the ways that children behave at school reflect what their home lives teach them that relationships and behaviour look like. The education environment is incredibly important for children, but so too is the home environment.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester [V]]

My Lords, I too want to assure Sarah Everard’s family and friends of my thoughts and prayers. A couple of times in this House I have mentioned the work being done in Australia, the first country in the world to develop a national framework to prevent violence against women and girls. “Change the Story” identifies gendered drivers of violence and engages people where they live, work, learn and play. Will the Government take a serious look at Australia’s work and see what we can learn? Regarding the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, we will not be doing the right service to violence against women and girls unless we also ensure that we address the issue of that large group of women in prison for minor but repeated offences. Many are there because of the violence towards them and they need appropriate trauma-informed, community-based provision. Can the Minister assure the House that the issues about crime and sentencing will be looked at in a rounded and not a disconnected way?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

I would say yes to the last question. Regarding the first question and what they do in Australia, yes, I am always happy to learn from others.

[Baroness Blower (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, alas we all know the figures for violent crimes against women. No woman should feel unsafe or in fear in her home, on our streets or in our parks, so in the strategy to protect women and girls how will the Government address the need for major behaviour and culture change among men and boys, including through education and teacher training? Violence against women is a men’s problem. It will be long said of Sarah Everard, to whose family I too offer profound condolences, that she was just walking home. Women on Clapham Common on Saturday night were remembering Sarah Everard and it was not for police to manhandle them. The Metropolitan Police got it badly wrong. As advised by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick: do not ban gatherings.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

On the rights and wrongs of the Metropolitan Police, I have laid out clearly that the Home Secretary has asked it for a report and asked the Chief Inspector of Constabulary to undertake a review. I agree with the noble Baroness: it might be towards men, but a lot of this stems from men. The respect agenda, which lies at the heart of it, is fundamental to what she is talking about.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I too send my heartfelt thoughts and prayers to Sarah Everard’s family and friends on their unimaginable and tragic loss. The scenes of last weekend were extremely shocking. The police force needs to understand the scale of feelings and the loss of confidence by so many. This past week, a survey for UN Women found that 97% of 18 to 24 year-olds have been sexually harassed. Very few report this but almost every woman has experienced it. We need real change and a longer-term strategy to tackle what has been described as the toxic masculinity that is endemic across our society. Misogyny is a hate crime and I was concerned to hear the Minister say that this is to be looked at by the Law Commission. It needs a simple change in legislation. Kerb-crawling needs to become an offence. Will the Government look into this? Rape prosecutions have dropped every year for the past five years and are now at a record low. What has happened to the Government’s rape review, established two years ago? Women want to feel safe and be believed when they report an assault or rape. They want to feel secure and supported within our society.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

The rape review is ongoing and it has not gone away. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary mentioned it yesterday. The noble Baroness made a point about kerb-crawling; I think it could be termed street harassment. Of course, there are stalking, harassment and public order offences which cover that. To go back to the point about knee-jerk reactions, it is right that the Law Commission should opine on misogyny before we start bringing in laws.

[Baroness Newlove (Con) [V]]

My Lords, watching Sarah Everard’s case unfold has been horrific. It brought back many memories for me as my late husband Garry Newlove’s murder was national news in horrific circumstances. My thoughts go out to Sarah’s family and friends. It is deeply distressing and traumatic for the family at this stage. We all know that 90% of murderers are men and 90% of sexual offences are committed by men. We know all the figures, so I reiterate to my noble friend that women have had enough of being blamed and their safety needs to be prioritised. We do not need more guidance; guidance alone will change nothing. We need cultural change and a multiagency perpetrator strategy that makes violent and abusive men visible. Can we have serial perpetrators identified, assessed and managed, just like police do with prolific robbers, burglars, car thieves and organised criminals? These men are domestic terrorists and women have had enough of them being allowed to run amok, and harm and kill so many.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

I thank my noble friend for all the work she has done with me on the Domestic Abuse Bill. I say to her that serial perpetrators are often captured under VISOR because of the violent nature of their activities.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the statement of firmer legal action and the announcement of better lighting and more CCTV cameras do little to address the causes of violent and unacceptable behaviour towards women. To me, a placard at last night’s vigil for Sarah Everard says it all: “Educate your son”. Does the Minister agree that, in our homes and schools, we are failing to teach the boundaries of unacceptable behaviour towards women and girls? Will she further agree that a Sikh injunction at a time of conflict—to treat women and girls as mother, sister or daughter—is a worthy ideal for all of us at all times?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

The noble Lord talks such sense on these matters, and I agree with that “educate your son” placard. If we, as parents, do not teach our children the boundaries and they do not learn them at school, how will they know what is and is not acceptable, and how will they know what respect is? As the noble Lord says, failing to protect our women in turn fails to protect our children as well.

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I first endorse strongly the sentiments expressed earlier by my noble friends Lord Rosser and Lady Blower. My concern is that the title of the Statement, “Policing and Prevention of Violence against Women”, fails to acknowledge the true nature of the problem. We should not just refer to “violence against women”; we must always make it clear that it is really violence by men against women that is the problem. Every opportunity should be taken to emphasise that it is us men who are the problem. As such, I am glad that the Minister has mentioned the importance of culture. Therefore, the question is: what steps are the Government taking to play their part in the required cultural shift by men?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

The noble Lord makes a very important point: we should not just say “violence against women”—we should say, “violence by men”. However, it is not always violence by men; it mostly is but not always. The Government are clearly in the middle of the Domestic Abuse Bill and all the provisions therein. I thank my noble friend Lady Newlove for bringing forward the issue of non-fatal strangulation, which seems to be much more at large in some sexual behaviour and, of course, often leads to death—it is often at the heart of domestic violence. We have done much on forced marriage and female genital mutilation, which are all particularly female-focused, of course. We have done much in the 11 years that we have been in power, and I pay tribute to my right honourable friend Theresa May, who was at the original inception of this.

[Baroness Ludford (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with all those who have called for a change of culture, attitudes and behaviour and better education for young men and boys—and indeed girls. However, will the planned new strategy on violence against women and girls have a comprehensive plan for how to get those changes? Secondly, in her foreword to the consultation on violence against women, the Home Secretary said:

“1 in 5 women will experience sexual assault during her lifetime”.


As my noble friend Lady Hussein-Ece said, a recent survey found that almost every single young woman in this country—97%—had experienced sexual harassment. Is it not time to adopt towards sexual violence a version of the so-called “broken windows” policing, whereby early intervention aims to deter and prevent more serious crime?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

The noble Baroness will see some of the things that we have done in relation to perpetrator strategies and approaches, DAPOs, DAPNs and stalking protection orders. These are all measures to nip problems in the bud and prevent them from escalating into what could end up as full-on violence.

[Baroness Sanderson of Welton (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree that one of the key things to make a difference to policing and the prevention of violence against women will be the Domestic Abuse Bill? It has been greatly improved by Members across this House, giving police clear new tools and challenging current norms of behaviour. Is it not now imperative that we get it on the statute book?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My noble friend is absolutely right, and it has been a pleasure to work with her, given all her experience—of course, she was part of the team that was at the heart of that Bill’s inception. It is crucial that we get it on the statute book; she is absolutely right that we have all worked together to achieve it. It has been much improved and, as so many noble Lords have said, it is a landmark Bill.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I could not agree more with what we have just heard; it has been a privilege to listen to proceedings on that Bill and the noble Baroness in particular. I will make two points. First, as a nocturnal dog-walker of some decades, I have frequently noticed how walking behind a lone woman or girl is unsettling. The minute I cross the street, I see the shoulders relax; I suggest to my male colleagues that we ought to be more aware of that fact. Secondly, many in your Lordships’ House, and I include myself, have been pushing the police to come down more trenchantly on people who break the lockdown rules—Cheltenham was only a year ago. While the sensitivity displayed the other day was clearly wrong, we have to be honest and say that the police are damned if they do and damned if they do not. I feel that we have been pushing them to be more proactive in this field.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

I totally acknowledge the noble Lord’s final point. It is also refreshing to hear a man say that he knows how women feel. I feel like that if I go for a run at night, and I thank him—I wish that there were more like him.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, my heart goes out to the family and friends of Sarah Everard—this is a nightmare that every parent has. I support the other speakers today and will ask the Minister about the Tom Winsor inquiry, which she mentioned. First, what are its terms, who else will be involved and what are its timings? It is important that it starts quickly, has short and sharp terms and reports within the next few months. It must not be an inquiry that goes on for years—the public and we would not take it seriously. Secondly, like many Members of this House, I have been on a number of demonstrations over my lifetime, and I have never seen the police behave in the way that they did on Saturday night. What is in the police training, towards men and women, that involves throwing a woman to the ground and jumping on her?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the inquiry will establish just what did happen and the events that led up to Saturday night. As I said to a previous questioner, the scope and terms of the review will be announced and laid very quickly. I agree with the noble Baroness that it should take place at pace.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, the time allocated has elapsed. This is a very important issue and there were a number of noble Lords and noble Baronesses who wanted to get in and ask important questions, so I remind people of the importance of brevity for future questions and answers so that we can hear from everyone.