Stalking and Domestic Abuse

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to introduce a register of serial stalkers, including perpetrators of domestic abuse.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are fully committed to tackling domestic abuse and stalking and are doing all that we can to protect victims and robustly target perpetrators. Domestic abuse and stalking perpetrators can already be captured on the dangerous persons database and managed by police and probation under multiagency public protection arrangements, or MAPPA. The domestic violence disclosure scheme has also been rolled out nationally to inform and alert new partners about a perpetrator’s previous offending.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful for that Answer and I know the Government are doing what they can. Does the Minister agree that lives would be saved if serial stalking perpetrators were indeed managed in exactly the same way as sex offenders by including them on ViSOR and MAPPA? I also ask her to assure me that the forthcoming consultation on the DV Bill will include something on this register, as promised by the Minister to my colleagues Laura Richards and Zoe Dronfield from Paladin at a meeting held several weeks ago.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Perhaps I may first pay tribute to the noble Baroness for all that she does with Paladin. I really valued being able to go to the Paladin evening, although we only just crossed paths because the noble Baroness was delayed. We are certainly working across Government to develop measures that are both legislative and non-legislative to ensure that we are able to do all we can to protect and support victims, and to bring the perpetrators of stalking and domestic violence to justice. Later this year we will consult voluntary sector partners, experts and parliamentarians on the proposals and we will bring forward a Bill following that consultation. I look forward to the submission by both the noble Baroness and by Paladin, whose representatives I know have had a meeting at the Home Office as well.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

In the light of that answer, would the Government consider putting the register to which the noble Baroness has alluded into the much-anticipated domestic abuse Bill? When is that Bill likely to be published, so that offenders can be punished?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

We have signalled our intention to bring forward a Bill in this Session. On the register, of course, we have the domestic violence disclosure scheme, which is also known as Clare’s law. It provides a way of disclosing information about a partner’s previous convictions in this area. Also, perpetrators can be put on the ViSOR register for violent and sex offenders. It is important in this space to ensure that we have a register that is simple to use for those who need to use it, and not to over-complicate things by issuing too many registers, with cases potentially falling between the cracks. However, I will be very happy to work with noble Lords on this as we progress towards the Bill.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that cultural change is urgently needed to ensure that the serial perpetrators, rather than the victims, are placed at the centre of investigations and risk management plans? Paladin’s evidence and research show that this is not happening and that women are paying for that with their lives. What actions are the Government taking to ensure that such a cultural change takes place?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right to make the point that cultural change is essential in this area. Often, it is the women who are fleeing their homes and running away from often quite violent and wicked men. I pay tribute to the various groups such as SafeLives, which are providing perpetrator programmes to ensure that women actually remain safe in their homes and, where possible, men can be rehabilitated. I do talk about women and men here because women are most likely to be the victims of these offences.

Perhaps I may also talk about the police’s approach to vulnerability, which was brought up in a previous Question about training. We have awarded nearly £2 million to the College of Policing to transform the police’s approach. This will include a much-enhanced programme of training. I referred earlier to getting the voluntary sector to engage, as well, which would be all to the good since cultural change is sought across all agencies. Unfortunately, we are quite new to this process, although we have been trying to tackle this issue for decades. The noble Baroness has raised a very valid point.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, as the thinking develops about a register, will the Minister consider having a section devoted to highlighting families with vulnerable young children, who are also the victims of abuse?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am glad to be able to answer the noble Lord’s question. Of course, we have a register, but one of the things we are looking to acknowledge is that a child who experiences or witnesses just one episode of domestic abuse can be scarred for life. That should be reflected in sentencing. Hopefully, I will be leading on the Bill and I look forward in particular to discussing measures in that area with noble Lords.

Data Protection Bill [HL]

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Tuesday 10th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, this has been a lengthy but excellent debate. I very much welcome the broad support from across the House for the Bill’s objectives; namely, that we have a data protection framework that is fit for the digital age, supports the needs of businesses, law enforcement agencies and other public sector bodies, and—as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said—safeguards the rights of individuals in the use of their personal data.

In bringing the Bill before your Lordships’ House at this time, it is fortunate that we have the benefit of two recent and very pertinent reports from the Communications Committee and the European Union Committee. Today’s debate is all the better for the insightful contributions we have heard from a number of members of those committees, namely the noble Lord, Lord Jay, the noble Viscount, Lord Colville, the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chelmsford and my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe.

In its report Growing Up with the Internet, the Communications Committee noted with approval the enhanced rights that the GDPR would confer on children, including the right to be forgotten, and asked for those rights to be enshrined in UK law as a minimum standard. I am pleased to say the Bill does just that. The European Union Committee supported the Government’s objective to maintain the unhindered and uninterrupted flow of data with other member states following the UK’s exit from the EU. Understandably, the committee pressed the Government to provide further details of how that outcome will be achieved.

With the provisions in the Bill, the UK starts from an unprecedented point of alignment with the EU in terms of the legal framework underpinning the exchange and protection of personal data. In August, the Government set out options for the model for protecting and exchanging personal data. That model would allow free flows of data to continue between the EU and the UK and provide for ongoing regulatory co-operation and certainty for businesses, public authorities and individuals. Such an approach is made possible by the strong foundations laid by the provisions in the Bill.

In other contributions to this debate, we have had the benefit of a wide range of experiences, including from noble Lords who are able to draw on distinguished careers in business, education, policing or the Security Service. In doing so, noble Lords raised a number of issues. I will try to respond to as many of those as I can in the time available, but if there are specific points, as I am sure there will be, that I cannot do justice to now, both my noble friend Lord Ashton and I will of course follow up this debate with a letter. 

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, the noble Baroness, Lady Lane-Fox, and my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe, asked whether the Bill was too complex. It was suggested that data controllers would struggle to understand the obligations placed on them and data subjects to understand and access their rights. As the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, said, the Bill is necessarily so, because it provides a complete data protection framework for all personal data. Most data controllers will need to understand only the scheme for general data, allowing them to focus just on Part 2. As now, the Information Commissioner will continue to provide guidance tailored to data controllers and data subjects to help them understand the obligations placed on them and exercise their rights respectively. Indeed, she has already published a number of relevant guidance documents, including—the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, will be interested to know this—a guide called Preparing for the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR): 12 Steps to Take Now. It sounds like my type of publication.

Other noble Lords rightly questioned what they saw as unnecessary costs on businesses. My noble friends Lord Arbuthnot and Lady Neville-Rolfe and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, expressed concern that the Bill would impose a new layer of unnecessary regulation on businesses—for example, in requiring them to respond to subject access requests. Businesses are currently required to adhere to the Data Protection Act, which makes similar provision. The step up to the new standards should not be a disproportionate burden. Indeed, embracing good cybersecurity and data protection practices will help businesses to win new customers both in the UK and abroad.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Jay, asked how the Government would ensure that businesses and criminal justice agencies could continue, uninterrupted, to share data with other member states following the UK’s exit from the EU. The Government published a “future partnership” paper on data protection in August setting out the UK’s position on how to ensure the continued protection and exchange of personal data between the UK and the EU. That drew on the recommendations of the very helpful and timely report of the European Union Committee, to which the noble Lord referred. For example, as set out in the position paper, the Government believe that it would be in our shared interest to agree early to recognise each other’s data protection frameworks as the basis for continued flow of data between the EU and the UK from the point of exit until such time as new and more permanent arrangements came into force. While the final arrangements governing data flows are a matter for the negotiations—I regret that I cannot give a fuller update at this time—I hope that the paper goes some way towards assuring noble Lords of the importance that the Government attach to this issue.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, queried the status of Article 8 of the European Charter of Fundamental Rights, which states:

“Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her”.


The Bill will ensure that the UK continues to provide a world-class standard of data protection both before and after we leave the European Union.

Several noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, in welcoming the Bill asked whether the Information Commissioner would have the resource she needs to help businesses and others prepare for the GDPR and LED and to ensure that the new legislation is properly enforced, especially once compulsory notification has ended. The Government are committed to ensuring that the Information Commissioner is adequately resourced to fulfil both her current functions under the Data Protection Act 1998 and her new ones. Noble Lords will note that the Bill replicates relevant provisions of the Digital Economy Act 2017, which ensures that the Information Commissioner’s functions in relation to data protection continue to be funded through charges on data controllers. An initial proposal on what those changes might look like is currently being consulted upon. The resulting regulations will rightly be subject to parliamentary scrutiny in due course.

Almost every noble Lord spoke in one way or another about protecting children online, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chelmsford, who referred to the Select Committee on Communications report Growing Up with the Internet. The focus of that report was on addressing concerns about the risk to children from the internet. The Government believe that Britain should be the safest place in the world to go online and we are determined to make that a reality. I am happy to confirm that the Government will publish an internet safety strategy Green Paper imminently. This will be an important step forward in tackling this crucial issue. Among other things, the Green Paper will set out plans for an online code of practice that we want to see all social media companies sign up to, and a plan to ensure that every child is taught the skills they need to be safe online.

The other point that was brought up widely, including by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, was whether it was appropriate for 13 year-olds to be able to hand over their personal data to social media companies without parental consent. We heard alternative perspectives from my noble friend Lord Arbuthnot and the noble Baroness, Lady Lane-Fox. Addressing the same clause, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chelmsford questioned the extent to which the Government had consulted on this important issue. The noble Baroness, Lady Howe, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, made a similar point. In answer to their specific questions, 170 organisations and numerous individuals responded to the Government’s call for views, published in April, which addressed this issue directly. The Government’s position reflects the responses received. Importantly, it recognises the fundamental role that the internet already plays in the lives of teenagers. While we need to educate children on the risks and to work with internet companies to keep them safe, online platforms and communities provide children and young people with an enormous educational and social resource, as the noble Baroness, Lady Lane-Fox, pointed out. It is not an easy balance to strike, but I am convinced that, in selecting 13, the Government has made the right choice and one fully compatible with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, to which the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, referred.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Jay and Lady Hamwee, stressed the importance of adequate understanding of digital issues, particularly among children. Improving digital skills is a priority of the Government’s digital strategy, published earlier this year. As noble Lords will be aware, the Digital Economy Act created a new statutory entitlement to digitals skills training, which is certainly an important piece of the puzzle. As I have already said, the Government will publish a comprehensive Green Paper on internet safety imminently which will explore further how to develop children’s digital literacy and provide support for parents and carers.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, I think it was, asked about the Government choosing not to exercise the derogation in article 80 of the GDPR to allow not-for-profit organisations to take action on behalf of data subjects without their consent. This is a very important point. It is important to note that not-for-profit organisations will be able to take action on behalf of data subjects where the individuals concerned have mandated them to do so. This is an important new right for data subjects and should not be underestimated.

The noble Baroness, Lady Manningham-Buller, the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy and Lord Patel, and my noble friend Lady Neville-Jones all expressed concern about the effect that safeguards provided in the Bill might have on certain types of long-term medical research, such as clinical trials and interventional research. My noble friend pointed out that such research can lead to measures or decisions being taken about individuals but it might not be possible to seek their consent in every case. The noble Lord, Lord Patel, raised a number of related issues, including the extent of Clause 7. I assure noble Lords that the Government recognise the importance of these issues. I would be very happy to meet noble Lords and noble Baronesses to discuss them further.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and the noble Lord, Lord Patel, noted that the Bill is not going to be used to place the National Data Guardian for Health and Social Care on a statutory footing. I assure them that the Government are committed to giving the National Data Guardian statutory force. A Bill to this end was introduced in the House of Commons on 5 September by my honourable friend Peter Bone MP, and the Government look forward to working with him and parliamentary colleagues over the coming months.

My noble friend Lord Arbuthnot and others questioned the breadth of delegated powers provided for in Clause 15, which allows the Secretary of State to use regulations to permit organisations to process personal data in a wider range of circumstances where needed to comply with a legal obligation, to perform a task in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority. Given how quickly technology evolves and the use of data can change, there may be occasions when it is necessary to act relatively quickly to provide organisations with a legal basis for a particular processing operation. The Government believe that the use of regulations, rightly subject to the affirmative procedure, is entirely appropriate to achieve that. But we will of course consider very carefully any recommendations made on this or any other regulation-making power in the Bill by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, and I look forward to seeing its report in due course.

The noble Viscount, Lord Colville, queried the role of the Information Commissioner in relation to special purposes processing, including in relation to journalism. In keeping with the approach taken in the 1998 Act, the Bill provides for broad exemptions when data is being processed for journalism, where the controller reasonably believes that publication is in the public interest. I reassure noble Lords that the Information Commissioner’s powers, as set out in Clause 164, are tightly focused on compliance with these requirements and not on media conduct more generally. There is a right of appeal to ensure that the commissioner’s determination can be challenged. This is an established process which the Bill simply builds upon.

The noble Lord, Lord Black, questioned the power given to the Information Commissioner to assist a party or prospective party in special purposes proceedings. In this sense, “special purposes” refers to journalistic, literary, artistic or academic purposes. The clause in question, Clause 165, replicates the existing provision in Section 53 of the 1998 Act. It simply reflects the potential public importance of a misuse of the otherwise vital exemptions granted to those processing personal data for special purposes. In practice, I am not aware of the commissioner having provided such assistance but the safeguard is rightly there.

The noble Lord, Lord Janvrin, spoke eloquently about the potential impact of the Bill on museums and archives. The Government agree about the importance of this public function. It is important to note that the Data Protection Act 1998 made no express provision relating to the processing of personal data for archiving purposes. In contrast, the Bill recognises that archives may need to process sensitive personal data, and there is a specific condition to allow for this. The Bill also provides archives with specific exemptions from certain rights of data subjects, such as rights to access and rectify data, where this would prevent them fulfilling their purposes.

The noble Lord, Lord Knight, queried the safeguards in place to prevent the mining of corporate databases for other, perhaps quite distinct, purposes, and the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, made a similar point. I can reassure them that any use of personal data must comply with the relevant legal requirements. This would include compliance with the necessary data protection principles, including purpose limitation. These principles will be backed by tough new rules on transparency and consent that will ensure that once personal data is obtained for one purpose it cannot generally be used for other purposes without the data subject’s consent.

My noble friend Lord Marlesford raised the desirability of a central system of unique identifying numbers. The Bill will ensure that personal data is collected only for a specific purpose, that it is processed only where there is a legal basis for so doing and that it is always used proportionately. It is not clear to me that setting out to identify everybody in the same way in every context, with all records held centrally, is compatible with these principles. Rather, this Government believe that identity policy is context-specific, that people should be asked to provide only what is necessary, and that only those with a specific need to access data should be able to do so. The Bill is consistent with that vision.

I look forward to exploring all the issues that we have discussed as we move to the next stage. As the Information Commissioner said in her briefing paper, it is vital that the Bill reaches the statute book, and I look forward to working with noble Lords to achieve that as expeditiously as possible. Noble Lords will rightly want to probe the detailed provisions in the Bill and subject them to proper scrutiny, as noble Lords always do, but I am pleased that we can approach this task on the basis of a shared vision; namely, that of a world-leading Data Protection Bill that is good for business, good for the law enforcement community and good for the citizen. I commend the Bill to the House.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Children: Refugees

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 13th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs]

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they plan to implement their commitment to bring 480 unaccompanied child refugees from Europe to the United Kingdom.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to transferring a specified number of eligible children to the UK under Section 67 of the Immigration Act 2016 as part of our broader response to the migration crisis. All transfers need to take place in line with member states’ national laws. Last year, we transferred over 200 children under the scheme. We have accepted further referrals in recent weeks and we expect children to arrive in the UK in the coming weeks.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the figure of 200 to date is disappointing? If that is the fault of the Greek, Italian and French authorities, that is very disappointing. If it is the fault of the British Government, it is shocking. Which is it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, first, I say to the noble Lord that we continue to work with our partners in Europe under the scheme to transfer children where we can. However, as he will know and as I have said to the House before, we cannot just go into countries and take children. It might be helpful to explain the broader context in which we operate. In 2016 the UK settled more refugees from outside Europe than any other EU state. According to Eurostat figures, over a third of people resettled in the EU came to the UK. We have granted asylum or another form of leave to over 9,000 children in the past year—over 42,000 since 2010.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, what are the Government doing about children who have a right under the Dublin III agreement, particularly in the Calais and Dunkirk areas?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we continue to work with the French Government to ensure that those children are also transferred.

[Baroness Hamwee (LD)]

My Lords, the UK’s homegrown family reunion rules, as it were, are much narrower than the Dublin III convention in that families are defined much more narrowly—limited to parents under the UK’s rules. What will happen to the Dublin III convention when we leave the EU?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, when we leave the EU the Dublin convention will need to be reassessed under our own laws. Noble Lords will appreciate that this country has been a welcoming and safe haven for refugees and asylum seekers over the years—I have just given the staggering figure of more than 42,000 children since 2010—and we will continue to meet our commitment to those who need our help.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that there has been a major problem in Europe with unaccompanied children going missing, a subject about which I have written to her on numerous occasions? Does she also accept that, in the context of Dublin III and whatever may come next, we should at least look at the right of unaccompanied children to go to the nearest embassy or consulate in order to register their interest in reunification, rather than having to travel miles from anywhere in order to go through that process?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree with the noble Lord that we remain concerned about unaccompanied children across Europe. It is pleasing that in recent months, through our assistance, as well as financial assistance from across the EU, the EU relocation scheme has been far more firmly established. We will continue to work with our EU partners on the plight of children.

[Lord Gordon of Strathblane (Lab)]

In considering applications for asylum, will the Government pay particular and sensitive attention to children from minority religious groups, such as Yazidis and Christians, who in many cases, regrettably, face as much threat of persecution within the camps as they did within the countries they were forced to leave?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord raises an important point, as has my noble friend Lady Berridge in the past in regard to the Yazidis and the Christians. We have widened the vulnerable persons resettlement scheme in the region. Ultimately, the best way to safeguard these groups is to establish lasting peace in the region, and that means defeating Daesh, promoting a peaceful transition in Syria and helping to deliver political reform and reconciliation in Iraq.

[Lord Green of Deddington (CB)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Green of Deddington]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that the Government are to be congratulated on the large number of child refugees they have taken? Does she further agree that we need to proceed with care in that if we take refugee children who have already arrived in Europe, we will tempt other families to send their children off at great risk? It is a much better course to do what the Government are doing: take them from the region itself and deal with Christians in a fair and sensible way.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I totally agree with the noble Lord and I am very proud of what we have done. We have done better than any other EU state in taking people from outside Europe. In addition, the noble Lord referred to what I think he described as the pull factor to Europe. The sums involved in helping people in the region are staggering. For what it would cost to help 3,000 people here, we could help 800,000 in the region. Those figures are worth bearing in mind.

Child Sexual Abuse

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 13th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the lessons to be learned from recent police investigations into allegations of child sexual abuse in the past.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have done more than any other to tackle child sex abuse, declaring it a national threat and investing millions of pounds to enable officers to actively seek out and bring offenders to justice. Investigations are operational matters for the police and must be free of political involvement. It is also the responsibility of the College of Policing to set the standards for policing.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Can action be taken by means of strengthened codes of practice or other measures to ensure that police forces throughout our country conduct themselves with absolute propriety and honour when investigating allegations which, if mishandled—and some have been—can ruin the lives of innocent people and besmirch the reputations of the innocent deceased?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend makes the crucial point that where people are falsely accused and have their names in the media, their lives can literally be ruined. Noble Lords may have seen things in the paper over the weekend. The College of Policing guidance provides that, where an investigation identifies a false allegation, it may be appropriate to support a prosecution for attempting to pervert the course of justice. Steps should be taken to test the validity of statements and corroborative accounts and to establish an accurate picture. The decision to support a prosecution would be an operational matter for the relevant chief officer.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, Sir Richard Henriques did an independent review of the Metropolitan Police’s conduct in these matters. His conclusion was that:

“Until anonymity is enforced by statute, it is inevitable that many accused will lose their anonymity at an early stage of an investigation”.


Why will the Government not legislate?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we touched on that extensively on the then Policing and Crime Bill; the noble Lord was part of that debate. The police’s decision on whether to name a suspect is a matter for the chief officer, who must authorise any such disclosure. Following some of the debate, and ongoing with the College of Policing’s authorised professional practice guidance on relationships with the media, the College of Policing recently undertook a consultation on a fresh iteration of the guidance. That guidance is clear that the rationale for naming an arrested person before they are charged must be authorised by the chief officer, and that the authorising officer must also consult the Crown Prosecution Service if considering the release of a name.

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that one of the most disturbing aspects of the way in which Operation Midland was conducted is what might be termed the malicious gullibility of the police, and that that has done a great deal to undermine public confidence in the Metropolitan Police? I think it would be appropriate in these circumstances for her to show a little more indignation and a little less calm in the face of what has been a very grave injustice.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I do not disagree that it has been a grave period. I apologise if I appear too calm but the police are, rightly, operationally independent of the Government. It would be a matter for the relevant chief officer to consider whether to commission any similar review of how forces’ investigations were conducted.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, while I value the independence of each police force, will the Government consider asking the inspectorate to assess the propriety and cost of some of these investigations?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the Government will leave it up to the inspectorate to determine the use of funds and whether they are proportionate; they should be.

[Lord Armstrong of Ilminster (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness recently told me that it was absolutely right to commission an independent review of Operation Midland, the operation by the Metropolitan Police to which reference has already been made. Does she agree that it would be no less absolutely right to commission an independent review of Operation Conifer, Wiltshire Police’s investigation of allegations relating to the late Sir Edward Heath, given the concerns expressed about the conduct of that operation?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I hear those concerns and I recall the comments that the noble Lord has previously made and written to me, and to the Home Secretary. I am sorry to reiterate the point but the police are independently operational of the Government, so it would not be appropriate for me to comment on a particular case. We are absolutely clear that, where allegations are made, they should be thoroughly and professionally investigated so the facts can be established.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, why are the people who make allegations that turn out subsequently to be untrue not required to pay back the compensation they receive from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority, as has indeed happened in the Heath case?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think I have gone through the process for what happens with false allegations. It will be up to the determining bodies to decide whether compensation is payable.

[Lord Hunt of Wirral (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that the principle of someone being innocent until proven guilty dates back to Magna Carta and must be inviolable for the dead as well as the living? Surely the evidence must be assessed rigorously, independently and fully.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I could not agree more with my noble friend.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, will the noble Baroness take on board the fact that on a recent case to which reference has been made, a Wiltshire village police station seemed to approach it in a most amateurish way? The standards of intelligence and training required for a major question such as this need to be considered.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It is obviously for the local chief officer to determine the answer to the noble Lord’s question.

Modern Slavery (Victim Support) Bill [HL]

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 8th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords—I think every noble Lord—in thanking my noble friend Lord McColl for introducing the Bill and the opportunity to have what has been an excellent debate. I welcomed all the opportunities to listen to noble Lords’ contributions, in particular the poignant recollections of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby and my noble friend Lady Newlove’s eloquent description of the things victims have to go through and the assistance they need to begin the process of rebuilding their lives.

I also thank the Church for the work it is doing and the other organisations for the work they are doing, including the Co-op, which has been mentioned so many times. The Government fully support the work the Co-op is doing. I am particularly proud that the Co-op’s project is up and running in the north-west, but it is also looking to expand and I wish it well. It works really well in delivering the government-funded victim care contract, City Hearts. Through this, we know victims have secured employment with the Co-op.

I do not like to start a speech with disagreement, but I disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Prescott, who made the link between migration and modern slavery. Human trafficking and modern slavery are particularly brutal forms of criminal exploitation, but they are not immigration issues. We are focusing on tackling the traffickers who perpetrate the brutal crimes and rescuing the victims regardless of how they came to be exploited, not necessarily through migration.

Modern slavery is a hidden and complex crime, but the UK has taken world-leading action to lift the lid. I am grateful to noble Lords who referred to the Modern Slavery Act 2015, which gives enhanced support and protection for victims, as well as providing law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to tackle modern slavery, such as a maximum life sentence for perpetrators. We also successfully argued for the establishment in 2015 of UN global target 8.7 to end modern slavery by 2030.

For all potential victims the Government provide access to a tailored and personalised support service that exceeds the requirements of international law. The Council of Europe Convention on Action against Trafficking in Human Beings that noble Lords have referred to requires that we provide 30 days’ support to all potential victims of trafficking. Instead, we provide to all victims of modern slavery—not only victims of trafficking—this support for a minimum of 45 days, with most victims receiving support for more than double that minimum period. I hope that clarifies the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, who also pointed out the difference between England and Wales in matching Scotland. As I said, on average most identified victims in England and Wales are in receipt of support for 119 days. We therefore feel we are more than matching the work that has been done by the devolved Administrations.

My noble friend Lord McColl, the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, and the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, and others talked about victims after Brexit. It is an important consideration. I reassure noble Lords that victims’ rights will be upheld and guaranteed after Brexit. We are considering how best to do this as part of the NRM reform.

The noble Lord, Lord Elton, asked whether we are doing enough under Articles 12 and 13 of the Council of Europe Convention. I am pleased to report that the support we are providing meets and exceeds some of the UK’s obligations under these articles.

We appreciate the necessity continually to assess the needs of victims and to provide the support that they require. To that end, the Home Secretary has committed to reform of the NRM, the system we use for identifying and supporting victims. Following a review of the NRM in 2014, the Government tested new approaches through an 18-month pilot. The pilot finished earlier this year and its evaluation will be published shortly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Howe of Idlicote, asked about the guidance. That has been paused until the NRM reform is implemented. We are using findings from the pilot, along with the recent report by the Work and Pensions Select Committee on support for victims and the 2014 Home Office review, to shape proposals for long-term reform of the NRM. Officials are now consulting widely with a range of stakeholders, and I value this opportunity to incorporate the views of Peers into this work. It has provided a further opportunity for us to reflect on the existing support and assistance we offer to victims, to consider how best to ensure that victims receive the support they need, and to debate what the long-term offer for victims should be.

On the first point, I am reassured that the assistance and support set out in the Bill broadly reflect the support already provided by the Government to potential victims. For example, all potential victims currently have access to safe accommodation, financial assistance, medical advice and treatment, counselling, a support worker, translation services, independent legal advice and support to return to their home country. Victims’ needs are complex and one size does not fit all. That is why, when victims come into support through the NRM, their individual needs are assessed and a tailored plan of support is put in place according to those needs. In terms of ensuring that victims have access to support, discussions are already in hand on the statutory guidance required under Section 49 of the Modern Slavery Act. This guidance will, as I say, be completed when reforms to the NRM have been confirmed but, in addition, the Government understand the importance of ensuring that the rights of victims are set on a legislative footing.

Section 50 of the Modern Slavery Act gives the Secretary of State the power to make regulations on the identification of and support for victims. I note that my noble friend’s Bill seeks to make exercising this power a requirement. I assure noble Lords that we are considering the most appropriate way to enshrine victims’ rights in the context of the NRM reform programme. Finally, to address the issue of long-term support, the Government are committed to supporting victims and helping them to rebuild their lives. However, I must be clear that the Government do not accept that all victims of modern slavery should automatically be granted one year’s leave: we take them on a case by case basis. It is critical to the Government that victims of modern slavery have options and are supported in considering their future, but we must not assume that all victims wish to remain in the UK. Indeed, many who have been trafficked to the UK would far rather be supported to return home with dignity.

Where leave to remain is granted it is normally for those who are supporting the police, those who need access to medical and counselling support that is not available in their home country, and those who are pursuing compensation for the exploitation they have suffered. Other victims of modern slavery will already have leave to remain in another capacity, and the Government are committed to supporting those who do not qualify for leave to remain to return to their country of origin to rebuild their lives.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Massey of Darwen and Lady Benjamin, talked about child victims, a subject not articulated in the Bill. Child victims of modern slavery receive support through local safeguarding structures, alongside other vulnerable children. However, the Government recognise that they have particular needs and that is why we are committed to rolling out independent child trafficking advocates nationally. We have also funded £2.2 million-worth of projects aimed specifically at supporting trafficked children and reducing their vulnerability to being exploited.

I again thank my noble friend Lord McColl for bringing this issue to the House’s attention. I have looked forward to the debate today and look forward to future ones on this topic.

Cannabis

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2017 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I also declare an interest in MS. As the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, knows, I worked with MS patients for many years before I got involved in politics—I do not know quite how I made the transition, but that was the case. Some of the noble Lord’s anecdotes from patients chime with things that I heard. I know that there is significant feeling in the House on this issue. It is also clear from noble Lords’ remarks that they are keen that government policy on this issue should be led by evidence—as my noble friend Lord Norton of Louth said, I confirmed that yesterday—but also should not prevent patients from obtaining relief from symptoms using effective medicines.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, said, the WHO’s Expert Committee on Drug Dependence has committed to reviewing the scheduling of cannabis under the UN’s 1961 convention. The review will consider therapeutic use as well as dependence, and the abuse potential of several constituent parts of cannabis, including the cannabis plant itself and cannabis resin, cannabidiol, or CBD, THC, isomers of THC and extracts and tinctures of cannabis. The review is due to conclude by early 2019 and I, like most people here today, am very interested in its outcome and look forward to future opportunities to debate this issue—as I know we will—as and when the WHO concludes its work. I must add that the recognition of CBD as having medicinal application necessarily means that the other constituent parts will do so as well. Each compound ought to be assessed on its merits.

As noble Lords have said, cannabis in its raw herbal form continues to be listed in Schedule 1 to the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001 as a substance with no recognised benefits in the UK, but I must underline that this is in its raw form. The system of scheduling does not preclude medicines based on cannabis from being developed. The Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 regime, along with the associated regulations, enables the availability of controlled drugs which have recognised medicinal uses in UK healthcare—of which there are many.

We are already able to rely on a process, administered by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, MHRA, in parallel with the Home Office’s licensing system, to enable medicines, including those containing controlled drugs such as cannabis, to be developed, licensed and made available for medicinal use to patients in the UK. In the case of a Schedule 1 drug such as cannabis, the Home Office is willing to consider applications for research licences to facilitate the development of new medicines, as long as the appropriate ethical approvals have been given, as we have done in the past. I am very happy to meet again with the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, as we do regularly, to discuss this issue.

In the case of the cannabis-based drug Sativex, the Government have, as noble Lords have said, placed the product in Schedule 4 of the Misuse of Drugs Regulations to allow it to be legally supplied on prescription. Sativex was granted a marketing authorisation by the MHRA and was rigorously tested for its safety and efficacy before receiving approval for this application. This rigour should equally be applied to future medicinal products containing cannabis.

As has also been pointed out today, the MHRA has offered an opinion that products containing CBD, when used for a medical purpose, should be regulated as medicinal products. A CBD or cannabidiol product in its pure form is not controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, so where it can be extracted and isolated from the controlled substances in cannabis it would not require a licence from the Home Office. However, a CBD product that contains any trace of psychoactive compounds that are found in cannabis, such as THC or tetrahydrocannabinol, is considered to be a controlled substance under the 1971 Act and therefore unlawful to possess and supply unless it fits the criteria for an exempt product under the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001. The MHRA is working with individual companies and trade bodies to make sure that products containing CBD used for a medical purpose which can be classified as medicines satisfy the requirements of the Human Medicines Regulations 2012.

We continue to facilitate forward-looking research involving cannabis and cannabinoids. There were 19 cannabinoid clinical trial authorisations granted between 2005 and 2015. These trials cover MS, dental applications, psychotic disorders, addiction to cannabis, type 2 diabetes, epilepsy, interaction with other medicines and brain diseases. Research in this area is ongoing.

The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, asked about research into synthetic cannabinoid changes. I know that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has commissioned the ACMD to look into whether there are barriers to research into Schedule 1 drugs as a result of changes to synthetic cannabinoid generic legislation. The Home Secretary has asked the council to provide its advice before the end of this year.

The noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, and the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, asked about Epidiolex. Our position on it is that, as for any other medicine and as we did with Sativex, it must be put through the same stringent process to ensure its safety and efficacy, for the benefit of patients.

My noble friend Lord Crickhowell suggested that the Department of Health and not the Home Office should be responsible for this. I quietly nodded there. Like the previous strategy, the 2017 drug strategy takes a cross-government approach that reflects the need for co-ordinated action to tackle the problem in all its dimensions. Given the strong link between drug use and offending, the Home Office has and will continue to provide the governance and accountability essential to the effective delivery of this cross-departmental approach. The Department of Health leads on the building recovery strand of the strategy and, together with the Home Office, leads on the reducing demand strategy, along with Public Health England. To ensure that we are doing all we can—and following my meeting with the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher—I have recently written to my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy, who is the Minister for Health in your Lordships’ House, to ask him to consider how the Government can facilitate the development and availability of cannabis-based medicines such as Sativex.

We are open to the development of new products based on cannabis and look forward to the review from the WHO’s expert committee. I am sure that the ACMD will follow its conclusions with great interest.

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

The Minister has not made any mention of Bedrocan in her response to the debate. Does she think it reasonable that TW, in the circumstances I described, has to make these visits to Holland to collect her medication, which has been prescribed for her in Britain but which she is not permitted to obtain from her local pharmacy? Is that a reasonable state of affairs and if the Minister thinks it is, why? If she thinks it is not, what will the Government do?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I noted the noble Lord’s mention of Bedrocan. I had not heard of it and I am very willing to look into that specific drug. There are of course many drugs available in other parts of the world that are not necessarily available here and vice versa. I will write to him on that point. I will also take up the point about Alfie separately.

[Baroness Meacher]

May I thank everybody who has spoken so effectively in this debate? So many powerful points were made and we have managed to avoid duplication, amazingly. It just shows how many points one needs to make in relation to this—

Prevent Strategy

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 6th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, Prevent is part of the UK’s counterterrorism strategy, Contest. It safeguards people from being drawn into terrorism.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. I also welcome the Government’s statement that they intend to tackle all forms of extremism. Does my noble friend agree that, to tackle hate crime effectively, we must define those acts, words, conduct and attitudes that we consider to be extreme? Therefore, what is the Government’s working definition of Islamophobia? When, if at all, do they intend to agree and publish a definition of far-right extremism?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank my noble friend for that question. On Islamophobia, the Government are absolutely clear that hatred and intolerance on the grounds of race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or transgender identity have absolutely no place in our society. Our hate crime action plan sets out our commitment to defeating all forms of hatred. Generally, the Government’s counterextremism strategy defines extremism as,

“vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs”.

This applies to all forms of extremism, including the far and extreme right wing.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

Of course, the Prevent strategy to counteract extremism and acts likely to incite extremism applies across the board and to the whole community. Recently, some of our national media have carried a news story about alleged cultural impositions on a Christian child in the care of Muslim foster parents— a story that was subsequently revealed, following court proceedings, to be inaccurate in significant aspects, as well as being accompanied by a contentious mocked-up photograph. The way the story was presented and headlined was hardly designed to lower the temperature as far as attitudes about extremism are concerned. How exactly does the Prevent strategy apply to misleading reporting of such stories in our national media?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, it is extremely unhelpful and can be divisive when such stories hit the media. With regard to how that might fit into Prevent, the Prevent programme is fundamentally about supporting vulnerable individuals and safeguarding them from being drawn into terrorism. It is safeguarding in a similar way to how we would safeguard people from drug abuse or physical and sexual abuse. I will not comment on individual cases, but that would be the clear distinction between the two.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, can the Minister remind the House why the Government refuse to allow an independent review of Prevent, as recommended by the former reviewer of terrorism legislation, and why they refuse to publish their own review? At the moment, we have criticism of Prevent which the Government say is without foundation, but that assertion is in itself without foundation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we are absolutely clear that Prevent is working. Since 2010, 280,000 pieces of illegal terrorist material have been removed from the internet. A thousand people have received support through the Channel programme. In addition, we have absolute evidence of delivery of Prevent working across sectors. We have 850,000 frontline staff, including NHS staff and teachers, trained in spotting signs of radicalisation, so we are happy that Prevent is actually working.

[Baroness Afshar (CB)]

My Lords, are the Government aware that, by defining Muslims as the real focus of Prevent, Prevent has an incentive to be an agent provocateur—to actually find Muslims who are defined as other and as potential terrorists? This in itself creates a sense of otherisation which alienates many law-abiding Muslims and makes them feel as if they are defined as the enemy within.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we need to be absolutely clear that Prevent is in no way targeting Muslims. Prevent is aiming to safeguard people who are actually vulnerable to radicalisation, so it is a mechanism to protect people and not to target them. I think it is incumbent upon all of us to try not to make that connection.

[Lord Ahmed (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will be aware of the arrest of four serving members of the British armed services belonging to a neo-Nazi terror group. Could the Minister assure the House that there will be adequate measures taken to make sure that there are no extremists serving in the armed services?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the Government take all the steps possible to make sure that there are not extremists serving in the Armed Forces. Clearly, some people hide those sentiments and the events of yesterday were clear to see. Just as we are tackling Islamist extremism, so we must tackle the far right.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend’s Question not in danger of making a distinction where there is actually little difference? In the case of political Islam, which she referred to, is this not rather well represented in both cases by the Muslim Brotherhood, which seems to me to be rather like Sinn Fein was to the IRA?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, there clearly is a distinction between people who hold extremist views and promote those views to others, and those who actually go on to commit acts of terrorism. That is why we make a distinction between the two, with the former group being tackled on all sides by some of the programmes and engagement that we have with communities throughout this country.

Psychoactive Substances Act 2016

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 6th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howarth of Newport]

To ask Her Majesty's Government, in the light of the failure of prosecutions brought under the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016, whether they will review the legislation.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the outcomes from the two recent cases involving nitrous oxide are not legally binding, and the Government have no plans to conduct a formal review of the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016 following the two recent cases. We are working closely with the Crown Prosecution Service and the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency on our approach to future prosecutions involving this substance.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, it has not taken long for the courts to expose the unworkability of part of the legislation. Faced with the very serious and pressing problem of new psychoactive substances, will the Government now see reason and accept that prohibition—the orthodoxy of the last half-century and reiterated, on a peculiarly crude model, in the 2016 Act—has failed, with disastrous consequences for the growth of crime and the blighting of innumerable lives, not to mention the chaos in our prisons? Will the Government now base their policy not on wishful thinking and populism but on the evidence of science, the analysis of specific harms and the experience, here and in other countries, of what does and does not work?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I disagree with the noble Lord about the Psychoactive Substances Act not working because we have managed to close down more than 300 retailers across the UK which sold psychoactive substances. In 2016, there were 28 convictions in England and Wales and seven people were jailed under the new powers. Additionally, coming from Manchester, I would have to disagree with him, having seen some of the sights that I have on the streets of Manchester recently.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, the UN changed the basis of global drug policy in April last year at its special session. We now know that banning drugs will never create a drug-free world. The UN therefore wants nations to pursue evidence-based policies, as the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, mentioned, and public health policies to reduce addiction and the harms to our young people. The Psychoactive Substances Act runs counter to the evidence. It does nothing to reduce addiction; it increases the risks to young people. Yes, the head shops were closed but they were the last vestige of any kind of protection for young people, pretty inadequate though that was. I therefore reiterate the point: will the Minister give an assurance to this House that she will give the most serious consideration to instigating an independent review of all our drug policies? What are we doing? We are simply making matters worse. Will she come forward with evidence-based policies?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not disagree, and on previous occasions I have not disagreed, that evidence-based policies are absolutely the right way forward. In fact, WHO is undertaking some work of its own and it will report next year on the various elements of cannabis. We await with interest the results of that work.

[Baroness Hamwee (LD)]

My Lords, there was plenty of criticism of the Government’s approach to the Psychoactive Substances Bill, as it was, and the substances it covered. First, did the Government not seek advice on differentiating between the use and misuse of medicine? Secondly—this is one uncritical point about the Act—is it not a good thing that it is dealers and not users who are the focus of the Act, and should we not extend that approach to other areas of drug policy?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I wish that I had been there for the passage of the Psychoactive Substances Act now. It would have benefited me greatly, although some people seem to have scars on their backs from it. We have been talking about nitrous oxide, which has a medicinal benefit. However, in this case it was clearly used for recreation.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

May I observe that the Act is not working quite as well as it might, and that in its Section 3 there is a specific reference to the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs? I urge the Government to have discussions with that body, which has performed so well and served the public so well since the passing of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Again, I wish I had been present for the debates that took place. I certainly take on board what the noble Lord said. I have not got an answer for him today, but I will look into the question that he asked.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

The Government’s 2017 drugs strategy states on page 4:

“While use of new psychoactive substances among the general population is low … they continue to appear rapidly on the market, and use among certain groups is problematic, particularly among the homeless population and in prisons”.


What exactly is “problematic” meant to convey in this context that could not have been conveyed in more specific, clearer language? If the problem is among the homeless and in prisons, would a solution not be more social housing and affordable housing to rent and buy in the first instance, and a review of the lessons that should be learned from an excessive reduction in the number of prison officers over the past seven years in the second instance?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I guess that “problematic” means causing a problem to society. It is a particular problem with homeless people because such drugs are very cheap—ditto in prisons—and some psychoactive substances are not easy to detect, particularly spice. I forget the end of what the noble Lord said. Ah! It was about prison officers. Certainly, from some of the documentaries we have seen on television, it needs to become harder to get drugs into prison and there are more and more ingenious methods of secreting them into prison.

Security: ID Cards

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 20th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration has been given to the introduction of ID cards as a contribution to the maintenance of security in the United Kingdom.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, Her Majesty’s Government have considered the introduction of ID cards and have concluded that they would not contribute significantly to the maintenance of security in the United Kingdom.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government’s policy paper on EU citizens who wish to live in the United Kingdom proposes that up to 3.2 million EU citizens would need to apply for settled status supported by an identity document which could include personal data, a photograph and, according to paragraph 35 of the paper, possibly even nationally recorded biometric data; in other words, a national identity card-like document that will open the door to entitlements. With national security in mind, why not use the introduction of these identity documents as the test bed for a national roll-out of identity cards for us all throughout the country?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I have to pay tribute to the noble Lord’s tenacity on this point. He is absolutely right to observe that, as we leave the EU, we are entering new territory. We said in the EU citizens policy paper that all EU citizens and their families in the UK, regardless of when they arrived, will, on our exit from the EU, need to obtain an immigration status in EU law. They will need to apply to the Home Office for permission to stay, which will be evidenced through a residence document. The form it will take may be digital in the longer term, but when introduced it might be similar in format to the current biometric residence permit.

[Lord Blair of Boughton (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister remember the murder of Detective Constable Stephen Oake in Manchester by a man with the name, apparently, of Kamel Bourgass, who was also convicted of the ricin plot in 2003? Does she further recall that one of the things we know about Kamel Bourgass is that that is not his real name and we have no idea of his identity? The same is true of one of the people convicted of the attempted bombings on 21 July 2007. Why we are resisting something that, given the terrorist situation we are currently in, must be an advantage to the country?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I hope that the noble Lord will agree that while many European countries have identity cards, there is no evidence that they offer any greater protection than we have in this country. I think he will also appreciate that better security, better use of intelligence and better cybersecurity are very efficient uses of resource in looking at this problem.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, I hope my noble friend the Minister recognises that knowing who people are is a pretty crucial ingredient of national security. I am not particularly keen on identity cards because a competent forger nowadays can forge any document, including biometrics. What is needed is a national number with biometrics, held nationally, which everyone has instead of the plethora of numbers, most of which mean nothing at all. Will the Minister at least study the need for and the possibility of introducing a national identity number?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we have many numbers that help in assuring our identity. I am not sure that this would add to the mix. I am certainly happy to look at this, but I do not think there is any evidence that a national identity number would improve security in this country. I have already outlined to the noble Lord, Lord Blair, how this country is helping to make us safer.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, under the coalition Government we found ourselves trying to check who was on the electoral register against the national insurance number and discovering that the Government do not have, across their different departments, clear rules on which identity numbers we have. I have different numbers for my passport, the NHS and national insurance. As we move toward more of a database society, is there not an argument for considering how, in the relationship between the citizen and the state, we at least move toward common rules across departments for recording who we are, where we are, where we live and so forth?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the Government’s Verify system helps in regard to identity. We are certainly looking, for when the UK leaves the EU, at just what that residency document will look like.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, as well as the very persuasive arguments by my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours, all the work we have done in the cyber world has shown that the best way of stopping identity theft is for people to have a card with biometric data that they can use when accessing things such as the Government Gateway. More work is being done digitally online. This will become something that people will almost certainly have to have. A passport does not really cover that. When you add all the other benefits—for example, recognising who people really are–surely it is overwhelmingly desirable to go down this route.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord mentions the Verify system, which is a very good way for people to prove who they are online. There are a mixture of different ways in which people can prove identity for different purposes, and the noble Lord is right to raise that.

[Lord Rogan (UUP)]

My Lords, in elections in Northern Ireland, voters must provide an identification document, such as a driving licence, passport or social security card, to be able to vote. This is acceptable to the electors in Northern Ireland and causes no objections whatever. Surely the same could apply to the ID card throughout the UK in this current security situation.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the Government have announced plans to pilot the use of various forms of documentation as proof of identity when voting in specified local authority areas during the local government elections in 2018. There are no plans, however, to establish a specific electoral identity card pilot at this stage.

Immigration Act 2016

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement delivered in the other place by my right honourable friend the Minister for Immigration.

“This Government are fully committed to helping and supporting the most vulnerable children. The UK has contributed significantly to hosting, supporting and protecting vulnerable children affected by the migration crisis. This is part of our wider response of taking 23,000 people from the region. We have already granted asylum, or another form of leave, to over 8,000 children. Local authorities across the country are currently supporting over 4,000 unaccompanied asylum-seeking children.

The children transferred under Section 67 are being cared for by local authorities across the UK. We take our responsibility to those children very seriously, and safeguarding them is of paramount importance.

Following consultation with local authorities, the Government have set the number of children who will be transferred under the Dubs scheme at 480. We have invited referrals of eligible children from France, Greece and Italy. Our officials at the Home Office have visited France, Greece and Italy in recent months and have put in place processes to identify and transfer eligible children.

In the last week I myself have spoken to my counterparts in Greece and Italy specifically on this issue and I will follow this up in face-to-face meetings in both those countries next week. It is important to remember that the process for transferring children must be implemented in line with each individual member state’s national laws. All transfers of children to the UK must be carried out safely and with the best interests of those children at the centre of all decisions regarding transfer.

The ongoing work to transfer children under Section 67 is in addition to our other commitments. We continue to work closely with member states and relevant partners to ensure that children with family in the UK can be transferred quickly and safely.

Our approach continues to be to take refugees directly from conflict regions, providing refugees with a more direct and safe route to the UK, rather than risking a hazardous journey to Europe. We are committed to resettling 23,000 people from the region, and ours are some of the largest and longest-running resettlement schemes in the EU.

So far the UK has resettled more than 7,000 people under the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement scheme and the vulnerable children resettlement scheme. Our schemes allow children to be resettled with their family members, thereby discouraging them from making the perilous journeys to Europe alone.

In closing, it is worth noting that families continue to arrive from the region. One family has arrived today; just yesterday 199 individuals arrived from the region; and 80 are due to arrive next week. This is all part of the Government’s approach to helping the most vulnerable”.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for repeating the Answer to the Urgent Question.

I have previously asked—without success—for the Government to provide the figures on the number of further unaccompanied children that local authorities have said they have the capacity to take in the current financial year, 2017-18, under Section 67 of the Immigration Act 2016, on the basis that government funding at the current level per child will be continued for further unaccompanied children coming here under the Dubs amendment in the current financial year. If I am again to be unsuccessful in getting an answer to that question, is it because, in the Government’s view, that question is now irrelevant because it appears in the response to the UQ that the Government have now put a cap of 480 on the number of children who can come here under the Dubs amendment? This is surely the same figure applicable at the time of the PNQ on 27 April 2017, in the light of the addition of the further 130 children as a result of a government administrative error, when the Government also said,

“we have not closed the Dubs scheme”.—[Official Report, 27/4/17; col. 1444.]

Surely, in the light of the response to the UQ, which appears to apply a cap of 480, that claim made on 27 April no longer stands up, and if I am right in saying that, frankly, that is a disgrace.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, regarding the cap, the specified number was set out in legislation. It was initially 350, which was based on the consultation we carried out with local authorities. I have apologised before at this Dispatch Box—I apologise again—in that there was an administrative error and the figure then rose to 480. That figure is based on the number of children that local authorities can accommodate. It is right that we have not closed the Dubs scheme, which remains open. There are numbers to be filled and therefore the Dubs scheme is not closed.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, we are receiving conflicting statements from the Government and local authorities. Will the Minister update the House on her department’s working relationship with local authorities based on, first, evidence presented recently to the High Court by Help Refugees that local authorities had the capacity to accept a far greater number of unaccompanied minors than have currently been accepted? Secondly, freedom of information requests have shown that local councils have voluntarily offered to accept 1,572 more children in addition to those they already support. Does the Minister acknowledge this? In the light of this information, will the Government reopen Dubs and take their fair share of these children, who are at such risk that, according to Oxfam, 28 children a day are going missing from Italy alone?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The Government have consulted fully with local authorities. We held roadshows up and down the country. The FOI response to which the noble Baroness has referred talks, I think, about spare capacity for 784 unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. These figures are entirely at odds with our consultation and do not reflect capacity among local authorities. Over recent weeks and months there has been a lot of misunderstanding about the purpose of the 0.07% threshold to which I assume she is referring. It is neither a target for the number of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children that we would expect to see in a local authority area, nor is it an assessment of a local authority’s capacity to accommodate unaccompanied asylum-seeking children. It is an indication of when a local authority is caring for a disproportionate number of such children, as some local authorities are, and when we would expect to see them transfer away from that authority. Drawing conclusions about local authority capacity by automatically assigning them from their 0.07% threshold is a flawed methodology which fails to reflect existing capacity.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the co-chairman of the report on unaccompanied minors in Europe, which our committee launched last week. I want to make two points. Northern Ireland and Scotland have both offered to take children but we were told in evidence that neither of them has been invited to take any at all. I hope the Minister has read our report, which talks about children being teargassed daily by the riot police in northern France and the terrible conditions in both Italy and Greece. I wonder if she and others in the Government can see that, according to the evidence we received, no effort whatever is being made to identify Dubs children in Calais and Dunkirk or indeed in Italy and Greece. Moreover, no effort at all is being made to identify any of the children with an entitlement under Dublin III. This is a catastrophe for these children and I feel passionate about it. However, nothing seems to be being done.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I recognise the passion of the noble and learned Baroness, and she and I have talked about this on a number of occasions. I have read her report. The first thing I should say about the treatment by police of children in France is a point I have made in the House before: the prime responsibility for unaccompanied children in Europe lies with the authorities of the countries in which the children are present. We continue to work with our European and international partners to reach a solution to the migrant crisis, and the UK has contributed significantly to that in hosting, supporting and protecting the most vulnerable children. We have a very strong track record on co-operating with France to manage the situation in Calais and protect the shared border. The safest way for eligible children to be transferred to the UK is by claiming asylum in France. Children with qualifying family members in the UK will be transferred to the UK to claim asylum where it is in their best interests to do so. Also, more children will be referred under Section 67 of the Immigration Act 2016.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

My Lords, more than 25,000 unaccompanied children arrived in Italy last year. The cut-off date for Section 67 was 20 March 2016, which means that none of the children who arrived in Italy after that date could be helped. Given that no children have yet been transferred from Greece and Italy under the scheme, will the Government consider resetting the cut-off date?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The most reverend Primate will appreciate that people are killed when they travel from the region to places such as France. It is really worth the House noting that those who benefit most from refugees travelling to places in Europe are the people traffickers—the unscrupulous thugs who bring those people at great peril across the sea, many of whom die on the way. That is why we are so keen to help children and families in the region, rather than have them make that perilous journey. A change in the date, I am sad to say, would act as that pull factor.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

Can I ask the Minister for a simple answer to a simple question? Once we have reached the total of 480 children that she says the Government will accept under Section 67, is that the end of it or will the Government respond to local authorities which are still saying that they are willing to take more? It is a simple yes or no.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I hope that I can give the noble Lord a simple answer: the figure of 480 is a specified number, which the noble Lord will appreciate because it is the number that we agreed. The noble Lord well knows that local authorities do not take children just from the Dubs scheme but from other schemes; I know that he appreciates that, and that local authorities are limited by capacity. We are always willing to listen to and take advice from local authorities which feel that their capacity has improved, but I have to say to the noble Lord that we arrived at the specified number and we are bound by local authorities’ capacity.