Tobacco and Vapes Bill

2nd reading
Tuesday 26th November 2024 Commons Chamber

Second Reading

15:13

[The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Wes Streeting)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Today, across the UK, 350 young people aged 25 and under will take up smoking. It is a decision that the vast majority will later regret. They will try to quit again and again, but most will not be able to break their addiction. They will suffer strokes, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, stillbirth, dementia or asthma as a direct result of smoking. For two in three of those young people, the habit they are beginning today will eventually kill them.

Smoking takes 80,000 lives a year and causes one in four deaths from cancer in England, a hospital admission almost every minute and 100 GP appointments an hour. It is the leading cause of sickness, disability and death in our country. And today, Members of this House can consign it to the history books.

The Bill before the House will raise the legal age of the purchase of tobacco by one year every year, creating the first smokefree generation and, eventually, a smokefree nation. The Bill will enable the Government to extend the current indoor smoking ban to certain outdoor settings, and we will consult on banning smoking outside schools and hospitals and in playgrounds, protecting children and vulnerable people from the harms of second-hand smoke.

The Bill will come down on the vaping industry like a ton of bricks, to prevent a new generation of children and young people from getting hooked on nicotine. Taken together, these measures add up to the most significant public health intervention in a generation. They are a giant leap in this Government’s mission to build a healthy society and, in doing so, they will help to build a more healthy economy too.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Can the Secretary of State imagine the plight of a shop assistant, some decades hence, when a middle-aged or elderly person presents themselves seeking to buy a packet of cigarettes? Is that shop assistant really expected to demand their bone fides?

[Wes Streeting]

I can not only imagine it, but I recently experienced a similar situation. There I was in Barkingside Sainsbury’s one evening, only weeks ago, buying a bottle of wine to have with dinner and, to my surprise, I was asked for my ID. I am afraid it is just a burden that those of us with youthful vim and vigour in our early 40s have to bear, and it is a price I am willing to pay—for good moisturiser. However, there is a serious point. Along with many others that I am sure we will encounter during the passage of the Bill, this is one of the cynical arguments being deployed by the mendacious smoking lobby, which would have us believe that, decades hence, there will be people who are at the margins—one aged 41 and one aged 40, for example—being asked for ID on the sale of cigarettes. The point is that the Bill will create a smokefree generation. Young people growing up in our country today will not be smokers, because we will have stopped the start. We will do everything we can to support adults who are currently smoking, because the vast majority want to break the habit but struggle to do so.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

If only proof of age was still asked of me.

The Secretary of State knows that I support the Bill and will vote for it this evening, but he will know that rural pubs are increasingly marginal in their operations. He has referred to further powers, post consultation, that may stop smoking outside in particular places once the Bill is on the statute book. Will he put the minds of rural MPs, from across the House, at rest by saying that he does not envisage at any point, either now or post-Royal Assent, the inclusion of a ban on smoking outside rural pubs? That would be a further nail in their business model at a time when we need them.

[Wes Streeting]

I was going to address that point later in my speech, but let me address it now. It is not often that a Government comment on leaks or welcome the events following a leak; I do not want to encourage future leaks, either. However, it is well known and a matter of accurate reporting, in this case, that we were considering an extension of the ban on outdoor smoking to include outdoor hospitality, including pubs, as the hon. Gentleman mentioned. Because of that leak, representations were heard from Members from across the House, including the hon. Gentleman, my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes (Melanie Onn) and others. We took those representations very seriously because we know the hospitality industry has been through a torrid time, and not just in rural communities. I accept that rural pubs face a big challenge, but even high street pubs in towns and cities are struggling.

Our approach to public health always has to weigh up the upside benefits to public health against the downside consequences elsewhere. It is not in the national interest to see our high streets further suffer, so I reassure the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) and the hospitality industry—although I think it feels reassured on this already—that we will not be consulting on extending the powers to outdoor hospitality spaces. I hope that reassures people, as we embark on consultation on the measures that I am outlining today, that the Government listen, engage and consult seriously. Consultation is genuine with this Government.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I will not comment on how young I look, but I still get asked for ID when buying non-alcoholic wine.

It is 10 years since the smoking ban came into operation and there are 1.9 million fewer smokers in the UK. Does that show the Secretary of State the difference that a Government that take the matter seriously can make?

[Wes Streeting]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I am really proud of the impact that the last Labour Government made in reducing smoking harms and the prevalence of smoking in our country.

That brings me on to the next point that I wanted to make. President Truman famously said that it is amazing what you can accomplish

“if you do not care who gets the credit.”

When I first sat down with Rachel Sylvester of The Times in January 2023 and flew a kite to start a debate that a Labour Government might introduce a ban on children and young people today ever buying cigarettes, of the type introduced by our sister party in New Zealand, I was not necessarily convinced my own side would buy it, but I thought it was a debate worth having. I never imagined, in a million years, that I would tune into a Conservative party conference speech by a Conservative Prime Minister announcing his intention to legislate for such a ban. I will do something I do not often do with Conservative party conference speeches and quote extensively—and approvingly—what the then Prime Minister said.

“As Prime Minister I have an obligation to do what I think is the right thing for our country in the long term. And as Conservatives, we have never shirked that responsibility.”

I say that bit through gritted teeth.

“We have always been at the front of society, leading it—”

Who wrote this?

“And when we have the tools at our disposal…to do for our children what we all, in our heart of hearts, know is right, we must act, we must lead…we must put the next generation first.”

In that spirit, I pay tribute to the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak), for picking up the proposal and running with it despite opposition from his own party. That took courage. While we have taken steps to improve this Bill compared with the one put forward by the previous Government, I hope that hon. and right hon. Members on the Conservative Benches will follow his lead, showing that the one nation tradition still has a constituency in the modern Conservative party, and vote for this Bill in the national interest.

The Darzi investigation into the NHS set out the twin challenges facing me, my Department and this Government. The national health service is broken; it is going through the worst crisis in its history. At the point we came into office, waiting lists stood at 7.6 million. We had worse cancer survival rates than most comparable countries, ambulances not arriving on time, the number of GPs falling and dentistry deserts across the country.

Some of the most shocking findings in Lord Darzi’s report, however, were about not the sickness in our NHS, but the sickness in our nation. Children are less healthy today than they were a decade ago. Life expectancy was extended by three and a half years over the course of the last Labour Government, but in the past 14 years, it has grown by just four months. Brits now live shorter lives than people in any other country in western Europe, and we spend fewer years living in good health, becoming sicker sooner. Those are huge costs, borne by all of us as individuals. It means less time in which we are able to live our lives to the full, to do all the things we love and to spend time with the people we love. Sickness is forcing many of us out of work long before retirement age, leaving us dependent on welfare, ridding us of the purpose and belonging that work provides, and for everyone else, it means higher costs to us as taxpayers. Our sick society is holding back our economy, and that is why we should act.

[Layla Moran (Oxford West and Abingdon) (LD)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Wes Streeting]

I give way to the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee.

[Layla Moran]

In the spirit of cross-party working, I want to congratulate Members on the Conservative Benches for deciding, when the former Prime Minister put this policy forward, that it was a priority. It shows how important it is that No. 10 gets behind this kind of thing, and I hope we learn that lesson for the Government’s missions.

I gently say, however, that it is not just the evil tobacco lobby that has concerns about the age escalator. I completely agree with everything that the Secretary of State says, but if smoking is that much of an issue, why are we not just banning it for those under an age of, say, 25? That would have been another way to go. What is the thinking behind an age escalator, as opposed to a ban for those under a particular age so that people do not need new ID every time?

[Wes Streeting]

I recognise that there are people who have the freedom and the liberty to smoke today, the vast majority of whom, by the way, want to stop and struggle to do so. That is why we are announcing support to enable people to do that, with £70 million of investment in smoking cessation services. That is important, but for a future where people are no longer able to smoke, a phased approach is the right thing to do. It is also essential for the health of the individual, the nation and our economy.

Since 2018, our productivity has dropped by £25 billion due to worsening health alone. Some 900,000 more people are off work than would have been on pre-pandemic trends. That is more people than are employed by Tesco, Sainsbury’s and Asda put together. Smoking alone accounts for more than £18 billion in lost productivity. The rising tide of ill health, coupled with our ageing society, presents an existential challenge to our health service. If we do not act now, ever-increasing demands for healthcare threaten to overwhelm and bankrupt the NHS. That is the choice that we face.

[Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)]

Surely the Secretary of State realises that banning things rarely works. When tobacco was banned in South Africa during the covid pandemic, 95% of the trade went underground. Surely we should be promoting the concept of freedom with responsibility and allowing people to make choices about their own lives. I am glad that he goes shopping in Barkingside—he should go and speak to the shopkeepers in Collier Row, where local retailers will lose a lot of potential business if the ban comes in.

[Wes Streeting]

I am grateful for the intervention, because I anticipate that there will be similar arguments made from the Opposition Benches, particularly from a right-wing libertarian perspective. I want to engage seriously with those arguments.

[Jonathan Davies (Mid Derbyshire) (Lab)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Wes Streeting]

I will just respond to the point made by the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell).

There is no liberty in addiction; there is no freedom in addiction. The logical extension of the libertarian argument the hon. Gentleman puts forward would be the end of the ban on indoor smoking. If we should take a live and let live approach, why not legalise cannabis? Why not legalise cocaine? We prescribe certain harmful substances, and there is, I think, an unanswerable case on tobacco because it is uniquely addictive and uniquely harmful. That is why we will take a tougher approach with this harmful substance than we would with something such as alcohol, or other harms such as gambling.

[Jonathan Davies]

The Secretary of State stole my line when he said that there is no freedom in addiction. I just want to thank him for his pragmatic approach to the hospitality industry, which has made representations to me on this matter. May I also impress on him that vapes are a valuable quitting aid for many adults, but many young people are now taking to vaping when they have never actually smoked at all? Can he say a little bit more about how we will address that?

[Wes Streeting]

I will certainly come on to the action that we are taking on vaping, and the case for it. I welcome the contribution that my hon. Friend has made in his first few months as a Member of this House. He brings enormous expertise and experience, particularly on health, which we very much value here in the Chamber.

One choice would be to continue paying an ever heavier price for failure. That is the road that we were heading down, under the previous Government. Our NHS already takes £4 for every £10 spent by the Government day to day. We are on course to go from being a nation with a national health service to a health service with a nation attached to it. It is projected that by the end of this Parliament, 4.3 million people will be on sickness benefit if we fail to act. Smoking could cause 300,000 patients to be diagnosed with cancer over the next five years, including 3,000 for whom that is the result of exposure to second-hand smoke. That is what happens if we only ever treat the symptoms of ill health. We end up spending more on the NHS than ever before, but with worse care for patients, a ballooning welfare bill due to more and more people being out of work, stagnant economic growth, and the heaviest tax burden in 70 years. In short, we will be paying more, but getting less.

Britain is like a ship with a hole. We are constantly battling to chuck enough water overboard to keep us afloat, as more and more floods in. We must break out of this cycle. Britain can break out of this cycle, but only if we are serious about tackling the causes of ill health, and shift our focus from treating the symptoms to preventing them. Plugging the hole in the ship is how we get back to growth, how we reduce the burden of taxation, and how we ensure that this Government can intrude more lightly on people’s lives.

[Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

The argument that the Secretary of State puts forward is essentially one for banning smoking altogether. What he said earlier was misleading; he suggested that people of a particular age group will not be able to smoke. They will not be able to buy cigarettes, but they can still smoke. They can cadge cigarettes off other people. Is this not a half-baked measure?

[Wes Streeting]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman was not accusing me of misleading the House. The argument that he puts forward is used against all sorts of laws and prohibitions. Most people in this country are law-abiding citizens who follow the law. In my constituency today, there will be people dumping fridges and mattresses on street corners—fly-tipping—because they are irresponsible and not law-abiding citizens. We will not always catch them, either through closed-circuit television or local authority enforcement, but that does not mean that we should not tackle them when they do those things.

By phasing in a generational smoking ban, we are taking a measured and reasonable way of creating a smokefree country. That is the right way to proceed, and it is sensible. I know that he does not agree, but he must accept the trade-off—the choices that he is making for the Opposition. First, he is accepting that people will pay a higher price for their healthcare, either through taxes, if he still believes in the national health service, or through the cost to the individual of their healthcare. Secondly, he must concede that, through the harm caused by smoking, he is fuelling welfare dependency. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions had a point when she said earlier that Labour is the party of work, and the Conservatives are the party of welfare. That is the logical conclusion of the hon. Gentleman’s opposition.

[Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on introducing this once-in-a generation public health measure. As he acknowledges, too many people are dying young from the effects of smoking. They are losing out on being grandparents and on the opportunity to live a long and healthy life. Smoking is a leading cause of health inequality, so does he agree that the proposals will help close the shocking gap in life expectancy between the rich and poor?

[Wes Streeting]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I am afraid that one of my first experiences of death was watching my grandmother die a very long, slow, painful death from lung cancer as a result of a life of chain smoking. That is the consequence of this cruel addiction. People who start smoking come to regret it. They struggle to stop, and I am afraid that the stolen years that they could have spent with children and grandchildren are only part of the cost. Part of my argument today, particularly to some Opposition Members, is about better use of public money and reducing the taxation burden. Other arguments, too, may have some currency with Members who might be opposed to these measures for libertarian reasons. We should not forget for a moment the impact of this cruel addiction and the harms caused by smoking on people’s quality of life, family life, and memories.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

rose—

[Wes Streeting]

I must make progress, otherwise we will not hear from anyone else in this debate—and I think that it will be a debate.

Taking action requires a reforming Government who are unafraid to take on the orthodoxies of both the right and the left. As I said, my right hon. Friend the Work and Pensions Secretary is today proposing radical reforms to the welfare system. Earlier this month, I set out a package of reforms to drive better productivity in the NHS. Today, we are proposing the biggest public health reform in a generation: phasing out smoking for the next generation by raising the legal age at which tobacco can be sold by one year every year, so that anyone aged 15 and under today will never legally be sold cigarettes. That will phase out smoking altogether.

Almost 20 years ago, the last Labour Government introduced the ban on smoking indoors in public places, as my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Chris Vince) said. We heard many of the same arguments, frankly, from opponents of that measure as we hear from opponents of the Bill today. They are free to correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think that Opposition Members who oppose the Bill are also proposing scrapping the indoor smoking ban. We have political consensus on the issue because of its success. The year after the ban came into force in 2007, hospital admissions for heart attacks dropped by 1,200. Admissions for children with asthma had been rising by 5% a year before the ban. After it was introduced, admissions fell by 18% in just three years. Since 2007, smoking rates have been cut by over a third, and as our understanding of second-hand smoke grew, the ban sparked a cultural change. People no longer thought it acceptable to smoke in front of their children, and many stepped outside, even in their own homes. It is time to build on that success.

No smoker intends to cause harm to others, but that is unintentionally what they do through second-hand smoke. The harms from second-hand smoke are less than from actively smoking, but the evidence shows they are still substantial. If people can smell smoke, they are inhaling it. Smoke near schools and playgrounds exposes children to smoke. Hospitals, by definition, have high numbers of medically vulnerable people on their grounds. The Bill will allow Government to extend the ban on indoor smoking to certain outdoor settings, and we will consult on banning smoking outside schools, playgrounds and hospitals to protect children and the most vulnerable.

As we act to prevent harms from smoking, we must also tackle the rising problem of youth vaping. It has more than doubled in the last five years, and one in four 11 to 15-year-olds tried vaping last year. A new generation of children is getting hooked on nicotine, and there should be no doubt about the cause, and no illusion that this has happened by accident. On any high street in the country, we can see shop windows filled with brightly coloured packaging for vapes, with flavours like blue razz lemonade and tongue twisters sour apple. Those products are designed, made, packaged, marketed and sold deliberately to children. This industry has cynically targeted its harmful products to kids.

Action is long overdue. We promised to stamp out youth vaping in our manifesto, and the Bill delivers the change that we promised. It will close loopholes that allow vapes to be sold or given away to children, provide powers to regulate the flavours, packaging and display of vapes, and introduce on-the-spot fines of £200 for under-age sales. Just as we took action on the advertising and sponsorship of tobacco products, we will bring the law into line for vaping products, too.

[Wera Hobhouse]

I do not know whether the Secretary of State will still be in the Chamber when I talk about Spice-spiked vapes. I see a gap in the Bill: it does not talk about refills. The harmful practice of spiking vapes with Spice comes from the refills. I hope that the Government will listen to my concerns and be flexible, as they have already shown themselves to be in other places. Perhaps, during the passage of the Bill, we can include something about refills. Would he agree to that?

[Wes Streeting]

We want to work in a genuinely collaborative and cross-party way, and I know that is true right across the House. As I look at the Opposition Benches, including Conservative Benches, I see long-standing campaigners for action on smoking and vaping. We want to listen and engage.

I feel strongly about the matter, as does the Prime Minister. In our manifesto, we set out Labour’s mission to improve the health of the nation. We will be far better served as a country if this is a truly national mission, and if we come together in common cause for action on public health.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

rose—

[Wes Streeting]

In that spirit, I will give way to the hon. Gentleman—and then to some of my hon. Friends.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Can the Secretary of State tell us if there is any place for vapes as a step-down, in the context of the addictive aspects of tobacco? I seem to remember that when vaping first came along, it was heralded as a way to help wean people from their tobacco addictions. Sadly, it has turned into something else, as he describes, and starts children on the road towards nicotine addiction, but does it have a role as a step-down?

[Wes Streeting]

The right hon. Member is right to make that distinction. As a stop-smoking tool, vaping has a part to play. For smokers, vaping is a better alternative—a route away from smoking. We do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. What we are interested in tackling is the scourge of youth vaping and the extent to which young people have been cynically addicted. It is important to say that we do not yet know the full extent of the harms caused by vaping, but we do know two things: first, it is better to vape than to smoke—that is why we are striking the balance in this legislation—and secondly, vapes are harmful. Ask any teacher in the country; they will talk about the signs of nicotine addiction that they see in their pupils, and about having to monitor school toilets to stop children congregating to vape. It is urgent and necessary to act today to protect this generation of kids from a new addiction, and that is exactly what we will do.

[Peter Prinsley (Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket) (Lab)]

As an ear, nose and throat surgeon, I can attest to the absolutely desperate trouble that cigarettes have caused over many generations. Implementing this measure is one of the best things that this Parliament could possibly do, and I expect that the measure will be widely supported all over the House. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for introducing it.

[Wes Streeting]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, not least because of the expertise that he brings to the House as a clinician. We are well served by his expertise in debates on the health of the nation.

Opposite me sit many opponents of the Bill and of the Government’s prevention agenda. I acknowledge that their opposition is based on genuine, sincere beliefs about the limits of government and the size of the state, but I appeal to them by saying that the Bill is in the national interest and, ironically, in their ideological interest.

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for making a number of times the point that this is a truly national Bill that applies across the United Kingdom. I thank him for including Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales in the measures. When we in this place consider measures to promote health, we should do so equally for the entirety of the United Kingdom.

[Wes Streeting]

That is a very helpful intervention because it gives me the opportunity to say thank you to my counterparts in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. This is a genuinely four-nations Bill, and through it, we have an opportunity to create a smokefree generation in every corner of our country.

I say to people who have an ideological objection to the Bill that if they believe in lower taxes, as they say they do, and in maintaining a national health service, as they say they do, they cannot duck this simple equation: an ageing population plus a sicker society equals more spending on the NHS, paid through higher taxes. The Bill is just one measure, but it will make a significant difference to the health of our society, and to the balance of that equation.

The question that opponents of the Bill must answer is this: if they want our health and care services to continue having to spend £3 billion every year on the symptoms of smoking, are they willing to accept that that means higher taxes or higher healthcare charges for their constituents? Are they happy for their constituents to shoulder the welfare bill for smokers falling out of the workforce? Those are the consequences of what we are voting on today. Higher taxes and higher welfare are not the Labour way.

There are arguments about liberty from those who oppose based on libertarian belief. They say that the state should not deny individuals the choice to smoke if they want to, but three quarters of smokers want to stop and wish they had never started. It takes a smoker an average of 30 attempts to quit before they manage it. By definition, an addict is not free; there is no choice, no liberty and no freedom in addiction. Nor is choice afforded to anyone inhaling second-hand smoke. Tobacco is not only highly addictive but uniquely harmful. Yes, some smokers can quit, but most who want to cannot. Those who have help to quit are three times more likely to succeed. That is why the Government are, as I said, investing £70 million in smoking cessation services—an investment that will pay for itself several times over—but prevention is better than cure, and that is why we are taking action, through the Bill, to stop the start.

In conclusion, this Bill marks the start of a decade in which we will shift the focus of healthcare from treatment to prevention; take serious action on not just smoking, but obesity; reform the NHS, so that it catches problems earlier and gives patients the tools that they need to stay out of hospital; harness the revolution taking place in life sciences; and fundamentally transform the NHS, so that it predicts illness and prevents it from ever taking hold. That is the future available to us, and it is the future we must realise if we are going to put our welfare system, health service and public finances on a sustainable footing. It starts with this Bill. Smokers are more likely to need NHS services, be admitted to hospital, drop out of the workforce and on to welfare, and need social care years earlier than if they did not smoke. By taking the measures set out in the Bill, we are putting the UK on the road to becoming smokefree, building a healthier, wealthier nation with a health service fit for the future and leading the world as we do so. I commend this Bill to the House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

15:45

[Edward Argar (Melton and Syston) (Con)]

I do not always do this, but I express my gratitude to the Secretary of State for the tone he has adopted in this debate and for recognising the strongly and sincerely held views of right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of it. I am also grateful to him for being typically willing to share with the House in support of his points something as personal as what happened to his grandmother. Sadly, it will not surprise him that no one asks me for my ID these days—I will have to take some tips from him on the moisturiser that he uses. [Interruption.] I will ignore the unkind comment that he has just made.

In many ways, this Bill is like the curate’s egg: it is good in parts—indeed, it is good in many parts—and started from a place of good intentions. As the Secretary of State set out, smoking has a huge cost to society and to individuals. We know that smoking is the single biggest entirely preventable cause of ill health, death and disability in this country, and we see in our NHS the impact of smoking every day. It is responsible for around 80,000 deaths in the UK each year and is estimated to cost the NHS and social care more than £3 billion a year, including 75,000 GP appointments every month. As the Secretary of State said, almost every minute someone is admitted to hospital because of smoking. It substantially increases the risk of many major health conditions throughout people’s lives, such as stroke, diabetes, heart disease, stillbirth, cancers, dementia and asthma.

As the Secretary of State has alluded to in the past, it is often people in more deprived areas who have higher smoking rates, lower healthy life expectancy and higher mortality rates linked to smoking. Some 230,000 households are estimated to live in smoking-induced poverty, and children of smokers are three times as likely to start to smoke, potentially perpetuating the cycle. Over 80% of smokers started before they turned 20—many started as children—yet more than half of current smokers want to quit; as the Secretary of State said, three quarters say that they would never have started smoking if they had the choice again. Let me be clear: reducing smoking, giving people the information and support to quit, and helping to protect children in particular are worthy ambitions.

Among all the doom and gloom, there is some positive news: smoking rates are falling anyway. While around 6 million people in the UK smoke, the number of smokers has been falling for decades. In 2023, just 10.5% of people aged 16 and over smoked, compared with 20.3% in 2010, 20.7% in 2000 and 30% a decade before that in 1990. Likewise, the number of children who smoke is falling. While this trend is welcome, it is understandable that there is a strong desire to see continued action to further drive down the prevalence of smoking and tackle the recent rise in vaping among non-smokers, especially among young people, and to protect future generations.

As was evidenced by the interventions that the Secretary of State kindly took from many hon. Members, I am sure that many of us in the House have been alarmed by the surge in youth vaping, which has doubled in the past five years. Despite it already being illegal to sell nicotine vapes to under-18s, a quarter of children tried vaping in 2023. While nicotine vapes can and do play an important part in helping adults to quit smoking, we are clear that children who do not smoke should not take up vaping. The nicotine content makes those products highly addictive, while the long-term impacts of the colours and flavours being inhaled are highly unlikely to be beneficial. Of course, the full effects may not be known for some years yet.

The uptake in youth vaping has been driven in part by the branding and promotion of products clearly aimed at children, with vapes, packaging, descriptions and marketing all designed to appeal specifically to young people. Grown adults trying to quit smoking are unlikely to see the appeal of cartoon characters on their vapes, but of course, children and young people will. Likewise, the bright colours and fruit flavours are far more likely to appeal to children than to those looking to quit tobacco smoking.

For those reasons, the last Government introduced a Bill that primarily targeted our interventions at young people. It would have restricted who could purchase tobacco products without impacting current adult smokers. It sought to tackle youth vaping by restricting flavours, introducing plain packaging and changing how vapes are displayed in shops so that they do not appeal to children. It would also have prohibited the sale of non-nicotine vapes and vaping alternatives such as nicotine pouches to under-18s, just as it is already illegal to sell nicotine vapes to children. In parallel, it would have introduced new fines for rogue retailers in order to tackle the illegal market, seeking to make sure that the law—such as age restrictions on purchasing vapes—was properly enforced.

That approach was targeted at the next generation of young people and aimed to prevent the take-up of smoking and vaping and break the cycle of nicotine addiction before it had even started. That Bill was not about demonising people who smoke or curtailing current smokers’ rights or entitlements in any way. None the less, it had challenging practical implementation impacts.

I have a lot of respect for the public health Minister, the hon. Member for Gorton and Denton (Andrew Gwynne)—I think that is his new constituency name—and know him well. I hope that when he winds up the debate, he will address some of the points I am about to make. My first point is about the impact on shopkeepers, particularly small shopkeepers, of enforcing and operating within increased restrictions, and the extent to which those restrictions are practically enforceable. In the context of what the Bill sets out to do, how does one avoid the existence of, or an increase in, a black-market economy in vapes or cigarettes?

We introduced our Bill before the general election. Since then, the new Government have introduced a Bill that may have the same name, but is not quite the same Bill that was introduced back in March. The Bill before us today gives the Secretary of State new, or significantly modified, powers under the Health Act 2006. It runs the risk of piling an unknown number of regulations on to retailers through a new licensing scheme, and it creates a whole new registration scheme. The challenge is that right hon. and hon. Members will not be told in detail what those schemes will look like, the specific impact they will have on businesses, or the detailed impact they will have on smoking and vaping rates until after the legislation has been passed. A hefty impact assessment—all 294 pages of it—has been produced. Given that the public health Minister has signed it, I fear he had to read every one of those pages before doing so. However, even with that impact assessment, the detailed impact of the individual regulations that may follow is unclear.

For example, clause 136 amends the Health Act 2006 to give the Secretary of State the power to extend smokefree places to some outdoor spaces. Of course, adults should be mindful and thoughtful about where they smoke or vape to be considerate to those around them, especially in areas with children or vulnerable young people, but the Bill risks giving the Secretary of State expanded powers to expand smokefree areas with minimal oversight. I acknowledge that the affirmative resolution procedure will be used, but as we in this House know, a statutory instrument and the procedures that accompany it are not as rigorous in their scrutiny as primary legislation.

Unlike previous laws, which banned smoking in confined areas such as pubs and bars, the Secretary of State is talking about bans in open spaces where the risks of second-hand smoking may be more limited. Page 64 of the delegated powers memorandum states:

“Under Section 4 of the 2006 Act, the Secretary of State could make regulations to designate additional places as smoke-free provided that they were of the opinion that there was a significant risk persons present in such a place would be exposed to significant quantities of smoke without a smoke-free designation…Section 5 of the 2006 Act gave the Secretary of State powers to make regulations for vehicles to be smoke-free.”

It goes on to say:

“Clause 136 amends the existing power in section 4 of the 2006 Act by omitting the risk condition.”

I would be grateful if the public health Minister could explain in his winding-up speech—I suspect he will be able to do so—why that condition is being removed. It was there for a reason: to give a sense of proportionality to anything that was done and to ensure that a particular bar had to be met, given the impact. Its removal effectively gives the Secretary of State much greater discretion to do as he wishes at a future date. I note that the Secretary of State has said today that he changed his mind on banning smoking in pub gardens or outside hospitality venues. I know him well, and he is an honourable man, so I take him at his word on that, but there is nothing in this proposed legislation to prevent a future Secretary of State from coming back, consulting and expanding beyond the areas where he proposes to restrict smoking to other venues and settings at a future date. Under clause 136, that could be done without the crucial risk criteria being applied. I would be grateful if the Minister could address that point, because it is hugely important. Members are being asked to decide now whether they support expanding smokefree places to an unknown list of outdoor spaces in the future, so it genuinely raises significant challenges and concerns if that gateway is not in place.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

I am listening very carefully to what the right hon. Gentleman has to say. Some 13% of adults in Bracknell smoke, but we know that more than half of smokers would like to give up, so what I and my constituents are listening for is a commitment that his party will back concrete measures to end the public health epidemic of smoking once and for all—or are they just going to wrap up their objections in sophistry?

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for most of what he just said. I will address precisely his point in a few paragraphs, but I say to him that my party brought forward legislation in March, which was debated in April, that did not have the mission-creep that I fear the Secretary of State is demonstrating with clause 136 and various other measures in this proposed legislation.

I must also challenge the Government on how they anticipate this measure being enforced. Will members of the public be encouraged to call the police if they see a parent smoking in a prohibited place? If there are no children in a park or playground, will it still be prohibited?

Concerns are also raised by the new licensing and registration schemes. While it is right that we had planned to expand the existing notification scheme to include non-nicotine vapes and nicotine products involved in the supply chain, this Bill goes a number of steps further. The Secretary of State will be able to create a new licensing regime for retailers for tobacco, vaping and nicotine products. Over 70% of convenience stores selling vapes and tobacco products are independent shops. How will they fare and how will they be assisted with the layers of added bureaucracy and cost that will be associated with the Bill? Do local authorities, which are already under pressure, have the capacity and additional funding allocated to administer such a licensing scheme in their areas?

Again, my fear is that we are unable to make a fully informed decision about the impact because the regulations will be set out only after the Bill has passed. The impact assessment states:

“A more restrictive licensing scheme would be expected to have a greater impact on public health and a greater economic impact on businesses.”

However, we simply do not know if that is what the Secretary of State has in mind or what the regulations will look like. Likewise, there is no detail on the impacts of a new registration scheme for all tobacco, vaping, nicotine and herbal products, as well as tobacco-related devices.

In the few months that the Government have been in office, they have sadly shown that they are not particularly a friend of business and have broken a number of their pre- election promises. Although I have confidence in the Secretary of State as an individual and as a right hon. Member of this House, I ask him to forgive the cynicism of those on the Opposition Benches over any attempted reassurances from the Government that they will take businesses’ concerns into account as they consult on their plans.

To the point made by the hon. Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow), if a Division is called, in line with the precedent set last time this will be a free vote; each Conservative Member may vote as they choose. The Bill, as I have said, comes from a good intention to keep the population healthy, to ease costs for the NHS and to prevent children from taking up addictive habits that may follow them for the rest of their lives. I support those objectives, but I call on the Minister for public health, when he winds up, to give the reassurances I seek and roll back the additional measures that have been put in place, over and above what we were proposing.

It is important that information is available so that people can make informed decisions and that support is available for those who choose to stop smoking. Adult individuals are best placed to make decisions about their own lives, but we recognise that the same is not true for children. I look forward to the responses from the Minister for public health, which I hope will be constructive. I welcome the Secretary of State’s offer to be collaborative and constructive in his approach to the legislation.

[Dr Beccy Cooper (Worthing West) (Lab)]

Will the shadow Secretary of State give way?

[Edward Argar]

I will briefly, because I have one sentence to go.

[Dr Cooper]

I thank the shadow Secretary of State. As a public health doctor, I am delighted to hear him speak so freely, openly and positively about all the great things that this legislation will bring, but I remain unclear whether he will be voting in support of this generation-defining public health Bill this evening.

[Edward Argar]

That will depend on whether the Minister for public health gives the promises I seek that he will withdraw a number of the measures that the Government have added to the Bill. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson), who will take the Bill through Committee on behalf of the Opposition, and I know that she looks forward to constructive and collaborative engagement with the Minister. I hope he can offer reassurances when he gets up to the Dispatch Box in a few hours’ time.

16:02

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

I declare an interest as the co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on smoking and health. Just over a year ago, I welcomed the previous Government’s Tobacco and Vapes Bill. As the House may know, I have called for a smokefree generation for many years. I was not best pleased when the Conservatives voted down my amendments to the Health and Social Care Bill in 2021. Those amendments called for a ban on flavours and packaging targeted at children, which the shadow Secretary of State has just brought to the House’s attention. If they had not been voted down, we would already have regulations to protect children from smoking and vaping.

I join the Secretary of State in congratulating the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak) on bringing the Smoking and Vapes Bill forward, but it was regrettable that the previous Government did not fast-track it in the wash-up before the general election. Nevertheless, I am grateful to the Labour Government for bringing this Bill forward. It is stronger than the previous legislation, and it responds to many of the issues that I and others raised in Committee with the previous Bill.

The comprehensive regulation of all vaping and nicotine products is important for addressing the concerns that vaping has become too widespread among young people. I strongly support regulations to reduce the appeal of such products, but we must ensure that the regulations are enforceable, robust and fit for purpose. My first of many questions to the Minister is this: will he confirm that a detailed policy paper will be forthcoming, setting out the policy objectives on vaping and how the new regulations will deliver against the objectives?

The Labour manifesto made a bold commitment on halving the gap in healthy life expectancy between the richest and poorest regions in England. Tobacco control is the best way to close the gap. We cannot say it enough: the range of diseases that smoking causes is extraordinary, from stillbirths and asthma in children to heart disease, stroke, dementia in old age, poor mental health and many cancers.

It will never cease to amaze me that there are people in this place who are happy to be lobbied by the tobacco companies—including, I am guessing, the shadow Secretary of State—some of whom we have heard from already, knowing full well the damage caused to individuals, families and communities, as well as to our health services. That includes communities such as mine in the north-east of England, where smoking is still the key driver of health inequalities and has been the cause of 26% of all deaths in the last 50 years and the cause of 125,000 deaths since 2020.

In my constituency of City of Durham, smoking costs us over £95 million a year, and more than £3 million is spent on healthcare. In County Durham, smoking costs us over £500 million a year, and over £21 million is spent on healthcare. In the north-east, the cost is over £2 billion, with healthcare costs at over £93 million. Nationally, smoking is still the greatest cause of preventable death, still the leading cause of premature death and disability, and still responsible for half the difference in healthy life expectancy between the rich and poor. That is why I have asked time and again in this Chamber for action.

It is a tragedy when we consider the further health implications. According to Cancer Research UK, the most deprived communities will not be smokefree until 2050. I urge the Government to restate their intention to publish a road map to a smokefree country and outline how support will be targeted at those who most need to quit. Smoking is also directly and indirectly linked to poor mental health. Nearly 40% of those who have a severe mental health problem smoke, and smoking accounts for two thirds of the reduction in life expectancy among that group.

I want to touch on the “polluter pays” levy. The Darzi review found that our health service is in real trouble. The Secretary of State is right that to rebalance supply and demand in our healthcare system, we need a major shift from sickness to prevention. The Khan review and the all-party parliamentary group on smoking and health have advocated for a “polluter pays” levy, which could raise £700 million a year to create a smokefree fund. That would ensure that the tobacco companies—not the public—pay for the harm that they inflict. Will the Minister consider that approach to fund the work needed to reduce smoking across society and to protect the NHS?

I should add that public health initiatives to tackle smoking are remarkably good value for money and that failing to fund efforts to tackle smoking is a false economy. Initiatives such as Fresh—the north-east’s tobacco control programme—have led the way in tackling smoking in our region. Fresh and others could provide best practice for the Department.

The Minister will know that the UK Government are party to the World Health Organisation framework convention on tobacco control. Article 5.3 seeks to protect policymaking from industry influence, but we have already seen that influence even at this stage of the Bill. Will the Minister confirm that the Government will live up to their obligations under the FCTC and commit to protecting the Bill from industry influence throughout its parliamentary process and the following regulations?

I am proud to vote for a Bill that will improve people’s lives and extinguish the injustice that smoking causes to individuals and society. Smoking is never about choice, and it is pathetic that some Members have argued that this is an issue of freedom; it is absolutely nothing of the sort. Tobacco companies target children and young people. Smoking is an addiction, and the only free choice is that first cigarette. When someone is in hospital, struggling to breathe because of smoking-induced lung cancer, where is their freedom? Today, we have the opportunity to give people the freedom to live healthy lives, free from disease and the inequalities that smoking causes.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

16:09

[Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)]

I can confirm that it has been a very long time since anyone has asked me for ID to make a purchase—a moment that is even further into the past than the last time I bought a packet of cigarettes. That experience will inform some of my comments today. I support this legislation, but it will be a free vote for my Liberal Democrat colleagues, and I will use my speech to explain why.

First of all, the Bill is split into two sets of measures: one to deal with smoking and one to deal with vaping. We are 100% supportive of the set of measures dealing with vaping, which is in line with our party policy that was passed at our 2023 conference. I think everyone in this House is united in agreeing that the targeting of nicotine products at young people and children through bright colours and attractive flavours is a shameful practice. Measures need to be taken to prevent that.

I am the mum of a teenager—lucky me—and he reports that some of his friends are unable to concentrate through a 40-minute lesson, because they have been exposed to such high levels of nicotine in the vaping products that they use that they are even more addicted to nicotine than someone who might have taken up smoking many years ago when I was young. We welcome the changes to prevent the targeting of vaping at children, and the recent ban on disposable vapes. We also acknowledge that vaping is an important part of smoking cessation, and legal vaping needs to continue into the future.

The introduction of a phased smoking ban is problematic, and not because Liberal Democrats want to see people smoke themselves into an early grave—far from it—but because it raises issues of practicality and civil liberties, which I will run through on behalf of my colleagues. The first question is, practically, how will this work? My son was born in January 2009. He will be one of the first people to benefit from a smokefree generation, and I sincerely hope that he never takes up smoking, but if his friends who are just a few weeks older choose to take up smoking, they will be able to continue to do that for the rest of their lives. Under this Bill, those future adults will be able to buy tobacco products for themselves but it will be illegal for them to pass them on to others a few weeks younger, such as my son. Problematic enforcement causes some concern and leads us to question why there was not an alternative way, perhaps by setting a very high minimum age to buy cigarettes, so that most people get through the flourish of rebellious youth and do not take up smoking in the first place. The concerns about practicality are legitimate.

The Bill also raises the spectre of an ID card, because those people who choose to start smoking will potentially be forced to carry an ID card or some other form of ID with them for the rest of their lives. That is a concern for the Liberal Democrats, who are strongly opposed to requiring people to carry ID around with them, for various issues of privacy and personal liberty. There is also an ideological point about discriminating between two people because of their age. We are generally opposed to that as a society, but the Bill does that.

The concerns about retailers suffering abuse are also legitimate. They are already suffering from a wave of shoplifting and antisocial behaviour. Some of the abuse directed at them comes from the enforcement of age legislation for things such as alcohol and existing tobacco legislation. We need to be cognisant of the decimation of community policing under the previous Government. We need to be sure that those retailers are fully protected. The Bill creates an extra risk for them.

Finally on the risks, there is a concern for the licensing authorities, which presumably will be local councils, although we do not have the detail on that yet. Lots of local councils are unable to carry out much more than their statutory duties currently, so I would appreciate confirmation that licensing will be fully funded for them, so that they are not put in charge of enforcing something that will be impossible.

I want to touch on what for me is quite an important area: the creation of a black market. Criminal gangs exploit young people in North Shropshire by getting them hooked on cannabis. It is an extremely difficult problem. Young people get into debt to those criminal gangs and are hooked into criminality for life. They see things people should never see and are extremely damaged by that exploitation. I share the concern that progressively banning tobacco products will increase the scope for the black market and the risk to children.

For all those reasons, as some Members may be aware, I abstained on the vote last time the legislation was brought through the House. It would be a legitimate question to ask me why I have changed my mind. I met somebody called Linda Chambers, a Liberal Democrat councillor in Hull, who came along to an event organised by Action on Smoking and Health to encourage Members to support the Bill. Linda was devastated when she lost her husband of 50 years to cardiovascular disease. As with a number of other speakers at the event who also spoke very powerfully about their experiences, her loved one had tried on several occasions to give up smoking but had been unsuccessful. The speakers at the event explained that the nicotine addiction had taken away the personal choice of their loved ones to live the lives they wanted to live. They were not exercising their personal choice any more. For a liberal, that is a very powerful argument. Personal choice is so important, and addiction really does take that away.

As the asthmatic daughter of two smokers who have repeatedly tried and struggled to give up over the years, Members might perhaps have expected me to understand that argument a little bit earlier. Typically, as the daughter of two smokers, I took up smoking myself. I did not smoke very much and did not smoke for very long, but I still occasionally have the odd craving for reasons I cannot explain, especially when I am in a traffic jam. But it is not funny, is it? Tobacco is uniquely harmful and uniquely addictive, and that is why I support the measures we are taking to address that.

Another really important, persuasive and powerful argument I heard in the previous Parliament was when Dame Andrea Leadsom, the responsible Minister at the time, and Chris Whitty took the time to provide a briefing to the Liberal Democrats. One point they highlighted was health inequality. A point that struck me—at the time, I was the co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on baby loss—was that 21.1% of pregnant women in the most deprived areas of the country are likely to smoke while pregnant, whereas in the least deprived parts of the country only 5.6% are likely to be a smoker. That huge difference correlates to a horrifying differential in the rate of stillbirth. Women who smoke while pregnant are more likely to have a stillbirth, and stillbirth rates in the most deprived areas of the country are 50% higher than in the least deprived areas. If we are serious about tackling health inequality rather than just paying it lip service, we have to take additional measures to tackle those inequalities.

For all the reasons I have outlined, I will support the Bill. However, I retain a few concerns, and I would be grateful if the Minister could address them in his wind up. The powers in the Bill effectively allow the Secretary of State to make any public place or workplace a no-smoking area. That is very far reaching. I would prefer to introduce measures in Committee that would require him to come back to Parliament before extending the areas affected. That would protect the hospitality industry, which, as hon. Members have pointed out, is struggling, particularly in rural areas. I will also point out the obvious, which is that anybody who is currently over 16 could potentially be a smoker for life.

There are many, many people who took up smoking and who want to give up but are unable to. We must reverse the cuts to the public health budget and the smoking cessation budget to enable those people to benefit from stopping smoking. The Conservatives have slashed the public health budget since 2015. We would like the Secretary of State to use the money provided for health in the Budget to address that problem. A quarter of cancer deaths are caused by smoking and 75,000 GP appointments every month are for smoking-related illness. Many women who smoke during pregnancy will continue to smoke for up to another decade.

Despite my concerns, I will support the Bill to ensure that people like Linda do not have to lose their loved ones to an addiction they were unable to end. I urge the Secretary of State to look at measures to deal with the practical considerations we have outlined and to support the current generation of smokers to quit if they want to.

16:19

[Mary Glindon (Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend) (Lab)]

I apologise for the fact that I may not be able to stay in the Chamber for the winding-up speeches, owing to a long-standing appointment this evening.

Although smoking is the No. 1 preventable cause of death and ill health, there are still more than 6 million smokers in the country. While the Government are right to press on with the Bill in the current Parliament, I hope that it can be improved even more compared with the version presented by the last Government. It will help the country to become smokefree by 2030.

As Members may know, I am a strong advocate of vaping, and I will concentrate on that in my speech. I have witnessed many of my friends and family members make the switch from smoking to vaping, and it is my honour to chair the responsible vaping all-party parliamentary group. Vaping is 95% safer than smoking, according to both King’s College hospital and the former Public Health England, and it is the most successful tool to help smokers to quit. According to data from ASH, 3 million adult vapers are ex-smokers. I fully support the health message that those who smoke should change to vaping, but “if you don’t smoke, don’t vape”. However, we now need urgent Government action to prevent youth vaping, which has become far too prevalent in recent years. We have already heard the statistics this afternoon.

In campaigning on vaping, I have been privileged to work with the vaping industry. I was disappointed that during the passage of the earlier Bill the last Government did not engage with the industry to find the best solutions to tackle both youth vaping and the illicit trade, which is largely responsible for children and young people having access to the vape market. At a forum held recently by the UK Vaping Industry Association, its director general, John Dunne, praised our Front-Bench team for the way in which they had already engaged with the industry, whose proposals will, I know, help the Bill achieve its objectives.

Like the industry, I have always supported the introduction of a licensing scheme as a helpful tool for better enforcement of the market, helping trading standards to identify non-compliant businesses, impose tough penalties and close down premises. I do not understand why restricting the number of shops and supermarkets selling vapes increases regulatory compliance. Shops and supermarkets that sell vapes responsibly should not be penalised, and we need to ensure that specialist vaping retailers can continue to operate, especially as they provide a such a critical service in helping smokers to quit. Flavour names that appeal to those under 18 are unacceptable and must be banned, but flavours are a key factor in helping smokers to make the transition to vaping. Research shows that about 65% of adult vapers find fruit-flavoured or sweet liquids preferable. If only tobacco flavours are available, many ex-smokers will return to smoking.

According to the Government’s own impact assessment, restricting vape flavours could affect 87% of adults who vape. Hopefully, meaningful consultation on flavours will lead to a safe solution to curtail youth vaping while also ensuring that vaping is an attractive alternative for adult smokers. It may well be that increasing fixed penalty notice fines to £200 is not a strong enough deterrent to irresponsible retailers and pales into insignificance compared with the profits made from the sale of cheap vapes on the illicit market, and I hope that the Bill can be amended to increase the fine significantly so that it acts as a real deterrent to those who now happily sell vapes to children.

Keeping in mind the UK’s 6 million smokers, who need help to quit, it is important to ensure that as we bring in the strongest possible measures to prevent under-age access to vaping products, the Bill must not over-regulate and, in doing so, undermine the power of vapes as a smoking cessation tool. I have been pleased to learn recently of new technical solutions that could help the Government to end youth vaping. Current laws require age verification at the point of sale, which has fundamentally failed to stop young people getting hold of vapes. The Government could go further and require continuous age verification at the point of use.

I recently met representatives of a company that has developed open-standard technology that can be applied by all manufacturers. It meets regulatory requirements for security and privacy, and can lock or unlock a device at the point of use. Vapes on sale in the UK market could be required to have secure Bluetooth technology installed—a low-cost chip that can be integrated into vaping products. Such chips provide a simple on/off switch that can be controlled via a mobile app. Users would have to verify their age via the app, in the same way as when accessing other services. This simple and straightforward approach would mean that no matter how a child got hold of a vape, they would be unable to use it. As the process would be quick and user-friendly, it would not prevent adult vapers from using vaping products as they do currently. I hope the Minister will consider looking at this technology in more detail as the Bill progresses.

The Minister knows that I am not a lobbyist for the vaping industry—some people may I think that I am, but I can categorically say that it is not true. I do not even vape myself, but I do want the Bill to be effective. I genuinely believe that including the vaping industry as a consultee is essential to ensure that this Bill helps meet the Government’s aim of creating the first smokefree generation, and I hope that the Minister can confirm today that the industry will be consulted during the progression of the Bill.

16:26

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

I welcome this Bill, and I think the country should welcome it and salute the Government for effectively taking on the Bill—they have polished and finessed some elements—that was introduced by my right hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins) under the previous Government. The gracious remarks of the Secretary of State in his opening speech will have resonated on the Conservative Benches and been appreciated.

A lot has happened in our country’s relationship with tobacco. I am pretty certain that had we known in the past what we know now about the harms of tobacco for so many thousands of our citizens, both societally and in terms of health, Queen Elizabeth would have probably said to the merchant adventurers, “Thank you very much for bringing it over, but please take it back.” It would not have taken root, but it has done. We have moved through a time when medics were paid by the industry to tell us of the beneficial effects of tobacco—for example, the idea that menthol was good for clearing people’s lungs. As we know, the medical profession has very much changed its tune. Rather like the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket (Peter Prinsley), my late father-in-law was an ENT surgeon, and I well remember talking to him about the devastating impacts that he saw on people’s health and the cost that such terrible and avoidable conditions can have, both to the economy and to the health service.

As I mentioned to the Secretary of State, I am no longer asked for proof of ID when I go into shops to buy anything. However, I can well remember that as a young schoolboy —this just goes to show how this country’s relationship with tobacco has changed—the headmaster at my local primary school seemed to be addicted to Piccadilly cigarettes. I do not know whether they are still made, but it was my job every morning—I obviously had a trustworthy face—to trot up Wyndham Crescent, go round the corner into Severn Road, go into Tony’s, the newsagent, and pick up either 20 or 40. I knew it was going to be a bad day if my headmaster needed two packets of 20. It is amazing that a nine-year-old schoolboy could be given cigarettes, but so trusting was Tony, the newsagent, that we did not have to pay. We did that on Fridays, and there was always 10p left over, which would allow me to have a comic, two packets of crisps or a bag of Chewits. When I say this to my children, who are either in or approaching their teenage years, they look at me with glee but also as though I am talking about a different age, which of course I am. What on earth can we buy for 10p these days?

As I said in my intervention on the Secretary of State, I welcome the Bill. I was grateful to him and to the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the hon. Member for Gorton and Denton (Andrew Gwynne), for a brief conversation we had today about the Government’s intention not to include within the scope of this Bill—or, indeed, in any future consultation—a prohibition on smoking outside a hospitality venue. I entirely take the Secretary of State’s point that it is not just the rural hospitality sector that would be affected, but a number of publicans in my constituency have said to me that it really would be the death knell for their business if smokers were not allowed to have a cigarette and a pint outside the pub, in the designated smoking area. Their businesses are very marginal, as the Minister knows and as the Secretary of State recognises, so I am grateful to them for that.

The licences that the Bill envisages will be useful for providing a record of who is doing what, where, for the benefit of officialdom in its many guises, but I urge the Government—and local government, if this gets passported down to it—not to see those licences as a cash cow. They should not be a profit centre, and the requirements to secure a licence should not be onerous. The constraints of the Bill are clear. Hon. Members have asked why, if smoking is so bad, we do not just stop sales completely. The Government are not going down that route, so those who are going about a legal business should not be made to feel like criminals or societal pariahs for selling what is still a legal product to those who are legally entitled to purchase it.

I disagree almost fundamentally with the assessment of vaping from the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend (Mary Glindon). I have three kids at our local high school, and too many of their cohort have got entrapped into vaping, brought in by the colours, the flavours, the smells, the packaging and the novelty factor. I understand entirely the intention for vaping to be a passport away from tobacco, but for too many, it seems to be an entry to smoking, and then moves them on to tobacco. That is entirely not what was envisaged, so I support fundamentally the robust approach that the Bill takes to the vaping sector.

I would be interested to hear the Minister’s response to the concerns raised about smuggling. One can make something illegal, prohibit it or narrow access to it, but that does not necessarily, in the first instance, choke off market demand, and people will seek it. There will clearly have to be some robust empowering of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs agents and others to ensure that we do not see a burgeoning black market in tobacco products.

On the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend’s point, I remember hearing a presentation from British American Tobacco, and a point that resonated with me was that there are legal vapes, the ingredients of which we know and are listed, and then there is a huge black market for vapes, principally from China, and nobody knows what the hell is in them. I think an awful lot of parents think that those vapes are just producing steam, and have no idea about their dangerous chemical composition. I think too many teachers and headteachers also thought that, and the learning curve has been steep.

[James McMurdock (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Reform)]

I have an interesting thought on the supply and demand issue, and the challenges it will pose from a control perspective. The hon. Gentleman paints a nice image of a day gone by when one of the kids could be sent down to the shop to pick up something for an adult, and I ask Members to consider what kind of world and country we want to live in. Do we want to live in a country where we could send one of the kids down to the shop to pick up something for us, or do we want to live in a country where we are forced to police each other’s behaviour in parks? We should think very carefully about the Government’s remit.

[Simon Hoare]

The hon. Gentleman takes me neatly to my closing point. If I understand him correctly, he is making an argument about civil liberties and freedoms. One does not have to be a libertarian to cherish freedom and liberty, as I hope we all do in this House. Libertarianism is the extreme form. It is the difference between liberty regulated and controlled—parametered, if one will—and liberty laissez-faire. It strikes me as rather incongruous for a libertarian to wish to become a lawmaker, because most laws are there to control, prohibit and regulate. It seems masochistic: “I am a free market libertarian, yet I have decided to put myself in the shackles of lawmaking in order to restrict the liberties that I cherish.” The hon. Gentleman makes a serious point, but we have to deal with society as it is, rather than as we might like it to be. Things have changed.

The ultra-libertarian would ask why we force people to wear seatbelts, as people should be free to hurl themselves through their windscreen at speed. Why do we have speed limits? The libertarian would say that we should be absolutely free to drive at whatever speed, irrespective of the conditions. I remember, back at university, hearing an eccentric American—that can sometimes be a tautology—questioning, from the extreme wing of libertarianism, the merits or otherwise of ages of sexual consent.

I suggest that all we do, and our inspiration for doing it, is benign and kindly. Too often, it is interpreted as being paternalistic and patronising, but I like what the Secretary of State said about this approach to lawmaking being in the proud one nation tradition of the Conservative party, because Tories like order, not disorder.

[Andrew Rosindell]

rose—

[Simon Hoare]

Here is a man who adores order nearly as much as he adores Margaret Thatcher.

[Andrew Rosindell]

One of my reasons for getting involved in politics is that I believe in a free society, and I believe that people should make choices about their own life. I do not believe that the state should govern how people live their life, but that does not mean I am an extreme libertarian. It just means that I believe in freedom with responsibility.

As my hon. Friend has said, attitudes to tobacco have evolved over the years. People have naturally decided not to smoke and, speaking as a Conservative, surely it is better to educate and let people make their own choices than to impose decisions on them.

[Simon Hoare]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, and I readily accept that it has a huge intellectual underpinning, but we have had public health campaigns for years on the dangers of smoking tobacco. In some instances, it has worked. We have also used taxation and the pricing mechanism. My late father told my mother that he would give up when cigarettes reached 10 shillings a packet. He eventually gave up when smoking was banned in public buildings and the like. The question that remains is: do we allow unfettered freedom if it harms only the individual who is exercising it, and step in when the exercise of that unfettered freedom has negative impacts on society?

The Secretary of State and others have dilated, perfectly correctly, on the impact on demand and supply in the national health service. A disproportionate amount of resource goes to dealing with smoking-related diseases, illnesses and conditions. We can do something about that. We know full well the negative impact of passive smoking on other people’s health, so the impact of the exercise of that liberty is not limited to the individual. I suggest respectfully that my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) would have a stronger point if it was limited to the individual. Then we could say, “Provide the information and let the individual take the decision.” However, that decision impacts many other people. It affects the productivity of the nation and the national health service, and the health of family and society.

I suggest to my hon. Friend that it is an entirely Conservative instinct to say, when all the levers have been pulled and buttons pushed—when there has been public information, education and some forms of prohibition—“It has worked up to a point, but not enough and not at the right speed. We will have to do something else.” I accept that not everybody who describes themselves as a Conservative, as my hon. Friend and I both do, will make the same analysis and arrive at the same position as me. I voted for the Bill in its last iteration, and I will vote for it again today, because I think it is the next lever that we need to pull and the next button that we have to push.

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that we have an NHS and a Government who are expected to provide and pay for treatment when people are ill, so there is a duty and an onus on the Government to try to keep people healthy, and to provide information about well-known dangers to people’s health? This is not about having a nanny state, but about nudging people to make the right choices, because it costs money to treat people, and we want to save money as well.

[Simon Hoare]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. One can nudge, prod, push and exhort as much as one can, but the Bill is probably the final stepping stone in quite a long line of stepping stones to try to wean people off their dependency on tobacco.

The House has been generous with its time, as have you with your patience, Madam Deputy Speaker. In closing, I echo and endorse the point made by the Secretary of State and other contributors from the Government Benches: people who have an addiction are not free. They are trapped by their addiction, and that affects many areas of their life. If someone is terribly well off, they can afford the addiction to tobacco, and it will make not a jot or tittle of difference to the household budget or income, or to their standard of life—

[Andrew Rosindell]

On that point, will my hon. Friend give way?

[Simon Hoare]

I will not, I am afraid, because I want to conclude. The disproportionate hammer blow is felt by families who would describe themselves as poor, on low or fixed incomes. When the choice between feeding the addiction and feeding the children comes into play, then feeding the addiction seems to have the trump hand. The Government are right to have picked up the ball and taken the Bill forward. It is an entirely Conservative measure. This is not a restriction of liberty in the abstract. The Bill is about public health. It is about taking the data, extrapolating the facts and recognising the harms, and, as responsible legislators, responding to that to make a difference to all our communities up and down the country.

16:44

[Tristan Osborne (Chatham and Aylesford) (Lab)]

Like previous speakers, I have not been challenged on my age, even though I use moisturiser; perhaps it is my receding hairline. I thank the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) for his eloquent speech about the Conservative party’s one nation tradition and his support for the Bill. It is absolutely the case that this legislation comes on the back of decades of other Bills and Acts that have acknowledged the challenges around smoking in our society. He eloquently articulates that evolution in our body politic.

I celebrate the fact that the Bill follows other landmark Acts of Parliament under the previous Labour Government, one of which had an impact on me when I worked in the retail industry. The ban on smoking in workplaces made a fundamental change to many people’s lives and overnight improved the life chances of many millions of our citizens. As has been said by Members across the Chamber, there is a consensus that smoking remains one of the leading causes of death, claiming 80,000 lives annually and costing the NHS billions of pounds, with some estimates putting it at between £3 billion and £5 billion.

[Andrew Rosindell]

On that basis, would the hon. Gentleman also ban alcohol? Would he ban all types of unhealthy foods, or chocolate—where does it end?

[Tristan Osborne]

We have age restrictions on alcohol sales and the Bill proposes doing the same. Similarly, for other substances in society, we look in a proportionate way at their health consequences; for instance, we class particular categories of drugs as A, B and C. All those things need to be taken as individual elements. Certainly, we will look at other proposals, but on this particular element, smoking and tobacco have been widely acknowledged as a public concern over many decades.

The vaping industry has seen some positive outcomes, with people transferring from cigarettes to vaping, as my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend (Mary Glindon) pointed out. Indeed, that use for those products has been acknowledged by the NHS. As a former teacher, however, I have also seen the consequences for young people and that has been acknowledged by many parents in the Chamber. I have unfortunately seen in the classroom, through confiscation and the illicit behaviours of some young people, that blue razz lemonade, watermelon bubble gum and strawberry raspberry cherry ice are all flavours of vapes. They are being marketed at young people, whether directly or indirectly, because we know, as does the tobacco industry, that young people are where the use of tobacco-based products starts.

I have seen at first hand the consequences of the proliferation of vaping in schools and its ubiquitous presence across my area in Chatham and Aylesford. I agree that the Bill’s removal of disposable, single-use vapes, which are currently so easily accessible and cynically marketed, is a sensible move and should reverse the recent trend of young people who have never smoked turning to vapes as an initial access point. It should also stop vapes being seen as a gateway to other types of drugs. Sadly, I have to report that cannabis-based products and other illicit products are gaining ground among disposable vape products.

At the same time, millions of single-use electrical devices blight our local landscapes. Many disposable vapes are deposited on roadsides and in parks, and while it is not specifically part of the content of the Bill, the reality is that vapes have environmental consequences.

The branding of some flavours has been a key driver of youth take-up. To prevent under-age appeal, flavours should be adult-focused and restricted to such flavours as tobacco, menthol and a handful of responsibly branded fruit flavours. I note that some in the industry are already promoting that agenda.

The age restrictions are sensible, and I think that the rising age escalator will be enforceable. Indeed, many supermarkets already have an age limit well above that which is legally required and challenge at the point of disposal.

[Vikki Slade (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the upper-age escalator could prove difficult later on, particularly in respect of the ability of those who sell tobacco? At the moment, if a young person sells alcohol, they have to get a supervisor who is older to allow it. When the people selling alcohol are in their thirties, but were born after 2009, and everyone else in the shop is in their thirties, who will be allowed to sell the tobacco? Does he have any thoughts on that?

[Tristan Osborne]

The licensing regime will be looked at in detail, but the reality is that, when I am buying alcohol in a supermarket, I might be challenged on my age by someone at the counter who is over the age of 16. I think I am correct in saying that I would then have to prove my age at point of sale. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong on that.

Enforcement is very welcome. As a former council portfolio holder for licensing, it was always very difficult to respond to emails from residents seeking redress around the sale of vaping products. Some products were being sold over the counter in unlicensed premises, so enforcement was very difficult. Other products were being marketed using very aggressive advertising. I welcome the licensing element of the Bill and look forward to hearing more details. Councils, I believe, are ready to take on the mantle of licensing. They license many other types of premises, and I suspect that this latest measure will just be an addition to the existing regime. The measure will challenge bad faith actors and illicit products. I have been asking questions about a digital tax on vaping products to see whether we can treat this sector in a similar way to other tobacco-based products.

I welcome the Bill because it will put us back on the front foot as a world leader in tobacco harm reduction, and help us lead the way in improving standards in cigarette alternatives. If we get this right, which I believe we will with this Bill, we can maintain a healthy balance, with vape usage targeted at the adult market and used as a means to reduce addiction to other nicotine-based products. The Bill balances the liberty of individuals to make choices with the responsibility of the state to uphold the public health of the most vulnerable and our young people, and I urge colleagues to support it.

16:51

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

May I declare my interest as a former chair, for nine years, of the all-party parliamentary group on smoking and health? In this new Parliament, I co-chair the same group with the hon. Member for City of Durham (Mary Kelly Foy).

I am passionate about preventing young people from starting to smoke and encouraging people who do smoke to give up because of my personal experience. The Secretary of State related his personal experience, and I think it is right that I should relate mine. Both of my parents died from smoking-related cancer. My late mother was only 47 when she died. She was a very heavy smoker all her life. I was then left as a 23-year-old with three younger sisters to bring up as a family. I do not want any family in this country to go through what our family went through. So this, for me, is personal as well as political.

I listened to the Secretary of State when he talked about the speech that the former Prime Minister made at the Conservative party conference. If he examines the Westminster Hall speech that I made some two months earlier, he will see that it was almost the same—word for word. I have not called my right hon. Friend out for his plagiarism before.

This House has a very long history of tobacco control. Those measures have been introduced mainly from the Back Benches. I know that the Government will proclaim that a Labour Government brought in the ban on smoking indoors, but it should be remembered that it was a senior Labour Back Bencher—a former Member of this House—who said that unless the Government introduced the measure, he would table a cross-party amendment to the Health Bill and it would be carried by a heavy majority. He did not need to do that, and I welcomed the provision.

I am delighted that this Bill builds on the Bill that was presented in the previous Parliament. I was proud to speak in that debate and to sit on the Bill Committee as we tried to improve the Bill. The then Minister, Andrea Leadsom, took away many of our amendments and said that she did not yet have the authority to agree them, but was willing to review them in the round. Clearly, we did not get to the point of doing that. It is important to remember that from 2011 to 2023, the number of people smoking dropped from 20% of the population to 11.9%, which is a big fall. The previous Government should be commended for that. Indeed, the last Government made it illegal in 2012 to display tobacco products at the point of sale. I remember that I led a debate in Westminster Hall in September 2013 calling for the standardisation of tobacco products to be made mandatory. Both the Conservative and Labour Front Benches opposed the position. Two years later, it was passed by this House. That shows how the Back Benches lead and Governments often follow.

At the same time, children were protected from harmful second-hand smoke by a law that made it illegal to smoke in a vehicle containing anyone under 18. That is difficult to enforce, and I remember many colleagues saying, “If you can’t enforce it, it won’t happen,” but most colleagues will remember sitting in a car where their parents were smoking and suffering that second-hand smoke. We won that argument. It was once again a Back Bencher—the senior Back Bencher Alex Cunningham—who brought that forward, and we were proud to support it.

We won the argument on the smokefree generation. The then Health Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Godalming and Ash (Jeremy Hunt), built the cross-party consensus then, and we reached the consensus on raising the age of sale for tobacco by one year every year. In the vote on Second Reading of the last Tobacco and Vapes Bill, it was rightly backed by a huge majority across the House.

I welcome the new measures, which include the amendments tabled to the original Bill. It takes into account most, if not all, the amendments we proposed last time in Committee. The Government have not yet met the standards set by the last Government, though, in addressing smoking among the 5.6 million smokers in England. The last Government committed £15 million in funding for mass media campaigns, £30 million for enforcement and £70 million for local stop smoking services. I note that the Secretary of State mentioned the £70 million for smoking cessation services, but not the other items. When the Minister responds, will he commit to the same level of support for the “swap to stop” scheme to support adult smokers to switch to vapes and a national financial incentive programme, particularly aimed at pregnant women who want to stop smoking?

Today, the Government confirmed funding for stop smoking services and enforcement. That is welcome, but only if the funding is sustained for the next five years in line with the commitments made by the previous Government. I am also concerned that while the enforcement duties in the Bill are greater than before, that has not been matched by additional funding. Will the Minister confirm that a full assessment of the cost of enforcement will be undertaken as a matter of urgency and that the funding will be reviewed following that and the passage of the Bill?

Between 2022-23 and 2023-24, we saw the biggest single drop in maternal smoking rates since records began, from 8.8% to 7.3%—an 18% decline in the number of women smoking during pregnancy. The fall was a credit to the services established under the last Government to support women to quit. Keeping up that level of progress will not be easy, but by maintaining the world-leading national financial incentive scheme, that rate of decline can be maintained, giving children the gift of a smokefree start in life. However, the funding for the scheme is due to come to an end in March next year. Will the Minister confirm whether the Government will extend the scheme and ensure that every baby gets the best possible start in life—something I know his predecessor would have strongly supported?

Most of the Bill comes from the Khan review. One item is not in the Bill that certainly should be. The difficult fiscal environment that the Government find themselves in means that discussions on funding can lead to tense shoulders on the Government Benches. However, I bring good news: there is a way to raise revenue, by passing the costs directly on to tobacco companies—those responsible for the blight on our population’s health and wealth. Will the Minister agree to come to the APPG and address the matter, so that we can talk about the implementation of a “polluter pays” tobacco levy on the profits of big tobacco, which would address issues with market prices and limit the profitability of the industry? That can all be done without impacting the cost of tobacco to the consumer or, indeed, on the wholesale market.

As co-chair of the all-party group, I congratulate the Government on adopting so many of the amendments that we tabled in the last Parliament, including on the introduction of a licensing scheme. I am pleased that the Bill indicates that that scheme will be more robust that the current scheme for alcohol, meaning that it can be used to improve public health, which I am sure we all agree with. At the Committee stage of the previous Bill, I also tabled an amendment to require age verification for everyone who purchases tobacco. That would aid enforcement and simplify the process for shop workers, who would not have to guess whether customers were over the legal age of sale or explain to some why they were being asked for proof of age. The requirement to ask for proof of age has been strengthened but not mandated, so in Committee will the Minister consider introducing mandatory age verification?

I welcome the ban on vape sponsorship and advertising, which was, once again, discussed in the previous Bill Committee. The promotion of vaping products for anything other than smoking cessation does not support public health goals. However, I am pleased that the Bill ensures that public health organisations can still promote vapes as a quit-smoking aid. Can the Minister confirm that the Advertising Standards Agency will work with public health organisations to ensure that that works in practice, so that smokers are still informed about the benefit of switching and, more importantly, of giving up tobacco altogether?

The Bill includes new powers to extend and designate smokefree places as vape-free. It is a shame that a consultation on where those powers should apply was curtailed before the Bill ever reached Parliament, because we need an open debate on that subject, and it would be better led by evidence rather than by decisions made behind closed doors at the Department. Will the Minister consider that aspect and see whether we can have a proper consultation so that all members of the public can participate?

The Bill consolidates many existing powers around tobacco control and brings them into one place, and I welcome that proposal. It will, I hope, ensure that legislation is future-proofed against any loopholes or escape clauses. We know how hard big tobacco works to get around the legislation we pass in this place. An issue that I do not believe is covered by the Bill—although I stand to be corrected—is that of chewing tobacco. Paan, for example, is often mixed with tobacco and sold with different products in different outlets, and it is sold loose, so it is difficult to monitor. Often, existing laws on oral tobacco are not enforced properly, so the populations who use those products, who tend to come from the Indian subcontinent, do not realise the risks that they are running. We know that mouth and throat cancers are particularly prevalent among people from the Indian subcontinent. We must combat that by ensuring that such products are properly regulated. Will the Minister consider regulating all forms of tobacco and ensuring that trading standards and others have the resources to enforce the regulations properly?

I congratulate the House on the continued consensus on reducing smoking, and take this moment to mark the significance of the Bill’s return to Parliament. I am very proud that it was a Conservative Government who first introduced the policy. No other consumer product kills up to two thirds of its long-term users; it is uniquely lethal and requires a regulatory approach. Government intervention is justified against this addiction, which steals the health and wealth of our population. To those who say that this is a matter of freedom of choice, I say that there is freedom of choice only in taking the first cigarette, after which people are addicted for life and either have to try to quit—some try up to 30 times, as we have said—or face shortened lives and horrible deaths.

We in this country have been a world leader in tobacco control, standing up to big tobacco’s repeated efforts to block our progress. The creation of a smokefree generation would have been absolutely unthinkable a few years ago, but it is so close—we can see it coming now—and it will be a credit to this Parliament and the previous one. I remember the Minister saying that it would be a Labour Government who created a smokefree England by 2030. Let us hope that we can do it faster than that.

17:04

[Jenny Riddell-Carpenter (Suffolk Coastal) (Lab)]

I start by welcoming this Bill, which will create the first smokefree generation. Children turning 15 this year will never legally be able to be sold tobacco.

As we look to reform and transform our NHS and improve health outcomes for our country, we cannot do so without tackling the root causes. The long-term chronic health issues that stem from smoking and the impact that they have on our NHS are well known and have been well covered today; they do not need rehearsing by me. It is worth noting that fewer young people take up smoking each year, which is good news and should be welcomed by Members. The proportion of adults aged 16 and over in the UK who said that they smoked cigarettes decreased significantly from 12.7% in 2021 to 11.2% in 2022, continuing the downwards trend seen since 1974. Recent research by Go Smoke Free shows from analysis of Office for National Statistics figures that between 2015 and 2023 the percentage of adults who smoke in Suffolk has declined to 10.6%, down from 16% in 2016.

That positive downwards trend does not mean that young people are safe from the addictions of smoking or that further interventions by this Government are not needed. Alongside the decrease in young people taking up smoking and the decline in adults in Suffolk smoking, we have seen an increase in young people and children taking up vaping. The vaping epidemic among children and young people should be a great concern to us all on both sides of this Chamber. In 2023, 20% of children had tried vaping, which was almost double the figure in 2020, before the first covid lockdown. This rapid trajectory is frightening, and I share the concerns of many parents who have written to me about the availability of vapes and the marketing of them, which so often seems as if it is targeted directly at children.

We know that disposable vapes are the products of choice for the majority of children vaping today, and I therefore welcome the ban on disposable vapes that this Bill will bring forward. The new legislation will not only protect the environment, but help to make huge strides in reducing the appeal of vapes to young people and help to keep them out of the hands of the most vulnerable children. I also welcome the Bill’s drive to ban the advertising and sponsorship of vapes and nicotine products and allow regulation of the flavours, packaging and display of vapes so that they cannot be marketed to appeal to children. It is astonishing that it is currently legal for vapes to be sold from locations such as the back of taxis, toy stores and confectioners. This practice must stop, and I am glad that the Bill seeks to tackle that—in particular, it will be hugely welcome to constituents in Suffolk Coastal.

In my constituency, we have vape shops clearly targeting children and young people and advertising products along with sweets in a clear attempt to market and sell them to those aged under 18. Residents in Felixstowe have been rightly outraged by the recent opening of an American sweet and vape store right on the high street in a prime location that is so clearly targeting children. I hope that under the terms of the Bill, stores such as that will be in breach of the law. I will follow the detail closely. I am also reassured that the £200 fixed penalty notice will enable trading standards officers to act on the spot to clamp down on under-age sales.

This Bill is welcome, and it should be welcomed by Members on both sides of the House. I look forward to voting in favour of it later, and I will do so on behalf of the residents of my constituency who have expressed their direct concerns to me.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

After the next speech, I will impose a six-minute time limit.

17:09

[James MacCleary (Lewes) (LD)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate about a Bill that seeks to change the way in which our society approaches smoking and vaping particularly for future generations.

I have never smoked in my life, and I would not wish my children or anyone else’s to pick up the habit. Smoking is undeniably dangerous, highly addictive, and a significant burden on public health. The Government data is stark: smoking causes 80,000 deaths in England every year and costs the NHS and the economy billions.

At the same time, however, I firmly believe in individual choice. It is not the role of the state to dictate every aspect of a person’s lifestyle. Like alcohol, smoking is harmful. Some Members have made the argument that the justification for banning smoking is that the practice also harms others. I ask those Members why we do not also ban the consumption of alcohol, which places a massive burden on the NHS as well as contributing to violent crime, including—with yesterday’s White Ribbon Day in mind—domestic violence. Should we not also look at gambling, which is also highly addictive and destroys families all over the country? Instead, we educate people and provide support for those who wish to quit. I believe that is the balance that liberalism stands for—freedom with responsibility.

The Bill takes a much-needed step forward on vaping. We know that vaping is increasingly marketed in ways that appeal to children, from brightly coloured packaging to sweet, toy-like flavours. That is unacceptable. The Liberal Democrats have long called for tougher regulation of vapes, and I welcome the provisions to ban advertising, restrict packaging and flavours and enforce age restrictions. These are sensible measures that will protect young people without penalising adults who use vaping as a tool to quit smoking.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman is probably aware of this, but there are a lot of safety issues with vapes and smoking, especially for young people. One of the issues seems to be that it is unknown just yet what effect vapes may have on adults, but even more so on children. For that reason, does the hon. Gentleman agree that further consideration must be given to the safety issues before we can let young people fully use vapes?

[James MacCleary]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) has already raised the issue of spiced vapes in a debate in this House. I think there are a lot of safety concerns relating to vaping, and hopefully this Bill can start to address some of those issues. As a party, we earlier supported the Government’s move to ban single-use vapes on environmental grounds. Vaping has a role in smoking cessation, but as the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, it has to be regulated to prevent harm to children.

On smoking, however, the Bill ventures into more contentious territory, in my view. The proposal to ban the sale of tobacco products to anyone born on or after 1 January 2009 is somewhat problematic. While I appreciate the ambition behind creating a smokefree generation, I worry about the long-term implications of this measure. For one, history teaches us that outright bans often lead to unintended consequences. As we have seen with other prohibitions, a black market can emerge, making it harder to regulate the quality and safety of tobacco products. Then there is the question of principle: should the state prevent grown, consenting adults from engaging in legal activities? I believe we must tread carefully when legislating against personal freedoms, even when those freedoms carry risk. A more effective approach would be to invest in public health measures, such as smoking-cessation programmes, early cancer detection and better treatment facilities.

The Bill also grants the Secretary of State sweeping powers to declare any public space smokefree. While I support protecting children in playgrounds, schools and hospitals, these powers go far beyond that, removing the requirement that a space must pose a significant risk of smoke exposure to be designated as smokefree. This raises concerns about potential overreach, which is understandably creating concern in the hospitality and night-time industry sectors. I urge the Government to clarify this issue when the Bill is in Committee.

Smoking rates in this country are already declining, particularly among young people. In 2021, just 1% of school pupils reported smoking regularly, compared with 30% in 1996. That trend is encouraging, suggesting that education and public health initiatives are working, so while I share the Government’s goal of reducing smoking and vaping rates, I believe this Bill goes beyond what is necessary or proportionate. We should focus on supporting people to make better choices, not remove those choices altogether. There is much to welcome and commend in the Bill, and I congratulate the Secretary of State and the Government on bringing it forward. I hope the Government will consider refining their approach in Committee in some of the areas I have raised, balancing public health priorities with the liberal principle of individual freedom.

17:14

[Dr Beccy Cooper (Worthing West) (Lab)]

It is a privilege to take part in this debate and to hear the broad consensus across the House on this excellent Bill. We have come a long way since the 2004 White Paper proposed a smoking ban in almost all public places in England and Wales. Smoking on public transport and in workplaces now feels inconceivable thanks to decades of work by campaigners and public health professionals and bold action from Government.

As a public health consultant, I pay special tribute to my public health colleagues who have worked so tirelessly in this area, from the seminal 1956 research undertaken by Sir Richard Doll and team that first established the link between smoking and lung cancer—something we take for granted today—through to the smoking cessation advisers who work daily to help people combat this destructive addiction.

Mark Twain is reported to have said:

“Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world…I’ve done it thousands of times.”

In my career to date I have been fortunate enough to undertake smoking cessation training and I can testify to the incredible amount of hard work and determination that both the quitter and the adviser put in to overcome the nicotine receptors that demand to be fed. This is an addiction, not a choice.

So it is better by far not to start this destructive habit in the first place. Currently, every day about 350 young adults still start smoking and about 160 people are diagnosed with cancer caused by smoking. Smoking is still the leading cause of premature death and disability in the UK, and is responsible for half the difference in healthy life expectancy between rich and poor. Other Members have talked about the appalling health inequalities in this country and how the Bill will really contribute to reducing them.

So it is right that this Bill will phase out the sale of tobacco and create a smokefree generation. Already ever fewer people smoke, and this legislation will increase the rate of decline. By increasing the age of sale by one year every year we can expect smoking rates among 14 to 30-year-olds to reach zero by 2050. As a mum of two young sons, I greatly welcome that.

I welcome, too, the increased powers to tackle vaping in the Government’s Bill. Vaping can be an effective aid for adult smokers to quit, but much tougher measures are needed to regulate products designed to appeal to young people. As ASH puts it:

“Vaping is an adult quitting aid, not a children’s toy.”

The chief medical officer further underlines this by stating:

“If you smoke, vaping is much safer; if you don’t smoke, don’t vape; marketing vapes to children is utterly unacceptable.”

This Bill will give the Government far greater control over the marketing and design of vapes and the flexibility to adjust regulations in the future if the market or evidence changes.

[Robin Swann]

Does the hon. Member agree that that is also why it is important that we control vending machine sales?

[Dr Cooper]

I wholeheartedly agree. Vending machines are often forgotten, but they are used for sales and marketing, and sometimes in ways we do not understand.

[Wera Hobhouse]

We should also look at online sales. A lot of young people purchase products online. May I ask the Minister what the Bill says about that?

[Dr Cooper]

I do not disagree. The Bill will give the Government far greater control over the marketing side of vapes and the flexibility to adjust regulations in the future. Life evolves outside this Chamber, and we need to be able to evolve with it flexibly.

Alongside the measures in this Bill, this Government have made important commitments to integrating smoking cessation into routine care and ensuring that the most disadvantaged groups are not left behind as we move towards a smokefree Britain. When I was undertaking my training in public health, a director of public health told me that our profession is where medicine meets politics—I am not sure how he would feel about me going into politics, but there we go. In this Bill, I am delighted to see the evidence and data provided by my profession working in synergy with this Government’s policy development to bring forward a Bill that will allow our young people to enjoy healthier futures and allow us all to live in a healthier environment. I thank all Members across the House for their work on this issue, and I offer my wholehearted support for the Bill.

17:18

[Seamus Logan (Aberdeenshire North and Moray East) (SNP)]

I rise to speak as a not yet reformed smoker, being in the pre-contemplative phase of my addiction, but I am pleased to speak today in favour of this Bill, part 2 of which specifically relates to Scotland. While this is only its Second Reading, the Bill certainly looks to be a promising piece of legislation that will benefit lives across the UK. Smoking is the leading cause of preventable deaths in both Scotland and the UK. As parliamentarians, we have a duty to safeguard future generations from the addiction of smoking and to reduce preventable deaths across the UK.

My unique contribution is this: I am concerned by what I see as the rise in the number of leading actors in television and film whose characters are featured as smokers. If I am right, I invite Members to consider that the next time they enjoy their favourite programme or film. It seems to me that it is the most subliminal form of product placement on our screens these days, and I often wonder to what extent the tobacco industry might be behind it in the form of indirect sponsorship.

Turning to the matter at hand, as Members will know, healthcare is a devolved matter for the Scottish Parliament. The Scottish Government’s record on smoking controls is excellent. Scotland was the first UK nation to introduce and endorse the smoking ban. Scotland led the overhaul of the tobacco sale and display law. Scotland established the UK’s first tobacco retail register in 2011, and Scotland is in the process of implementing the deliberately ambitious goal of a tobacco-free nation by 2034.

I pay tribute to my party colleague, Kirsten Oswald, the former Member for East Renfrewshire, who dedicated a significant amount of her time and effort in this place to this important issue. During the debate in the last Parliament on the previous Tobacco and Vapes Bill, Kirsten powerfully stated that

“any arguments put forward about personal choice or personal freedom make no sense at all when we are talking about children and a highly addictive substance. Smoking is not a free choice; it is an addiction.”—[Official Report, 16 April 2024; Vol. 748, c. 208.]

With this Bill, we have the opportunity to directly address not only preventable deaths, but youth vaping. While decades of research have shown the harm that smoking does, we are only at the very beginning of our understanding of the harm that might be caused by vaping. There is emerging evidence in this area, but as yet, we simply do not know enough. However, we can act in a preventive way, and I heard what the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend (Mary Glindon) said about vaping being 95% safer. I am not so sure that the evidence supports that; I am more inclined to agree with what the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) said on that point.

The rise in youth vaping across the UK is concerning. Vaping products are not intended to be used by children, but we know all too well of the shocking usage of these products by children. In 2022, 3% of 11-year-olds, 10% of 13-year-olds and 25% of 15-year-olds in Scotland said that they had used an e-cigarette in the last 30 days. To that end, the SNP welcomes the range of new powers in the Bill to regulate the sale of vapes aimed at young people and to tackle youth vaping. Measures to tackle youth vaping cannot come soon enough. The SNP supports the new minimum age regime for tobacco sales, meaning that no one born in 2009 or later will ever legally purchase cigarettes. That will aid in the Scottish Government’s goal of a smokefree Scotland, as I have already alluded to.

The Bill follows lengthy work and co-operation between the UK and devolved Governments, including a UK-wide consultation on tackling smoking and vaping, and I am pleased to see that that work was productive. I note that Scottish Government requests have been added to the Bill, such as in clauses 52 and 53. The Scottish Government previously laid a legislative consent memorandum in the Scottish Parliament, and will do so again. Intergovernmental work and co-operation are vital on this island, especially on a topic as important as tackling preventable deaths. For Scotland, it is vital that the UK Secretary of State sets out as soon as possible after the passage of the Bill, and in consultation with the Scottish Government and other devolved Governments, his plans to make best use of the various UK-wide powers contained in the Bill. That is particularly important for the powers relating to the specifications and sale of vapes, which are vital in tackling youth vaping.

To conclude, I am happy to support the Bill, as are my colleagues in the SNP. I look forward to seeing further co-operation between the UK and Scottish Governments to tackle this important issue.

17:23

[Darren Paffey (Southampton Itchen) (Lab)]

I am proud to be part of a Government who are creating the first smokefree generation and protecting the British public. This Bill will protect my constituents from avoidable illnesses and death, so I very much welcome it.

Like other Members who have spoken throughout the debate, I am one of those people who can only dream of being asked for ID these days. In fact, I am so old that I can remember growing up seeing huge billboards and bus stops with cigarette advertisements on them, and cigarette companies sponsoring entire sporting events. What a different time we live in now, and that is because our knowledge has progressed so much. We now know that there is no safe level of exposure to smoking or even to second-hand passive smoking. As the Secretary of State set out, we know the consequences, which are 75,000 GP appointments attributed to smoking every single month; 80,000 smoking-related deaths each year; and one person admitted to hospital every minute because of smoking. That is all at a cost to the NHS of more than £3 billion a year, adding to the pressure on it when we know it is at breaking point.

There is also the economic cost, with £18 billion of productivity squandered each year—dare I say, £18 billion up in smoke? Phasing out this harmful addiction is not just a health priority but a societal and economic necessity. The urgency is especially clear in Southampton, where we have had 527 emergency hospital admissions per 100,000 people for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, a disease from which my mum died, despite never having smoked but being the child of heavy-smoking parents. Compare that rate to the average in England of 326 per 100,000—that represents a 61% higher rate in Southampton. There is clearly an urgent need for the Bill to bring change nationally and in my city. I do not want the children of Southampton Itchen to have to grow up vulnerable to the same smoking-related health issues that my generation and the generations before us did.

This excellent Bill will rewrite the culture around smoking and vaping, freeing our next generation from addiction, from school-age pressures and from harmful trends. Despite the troubling statistics, there is great work going on locally to tackle this issue. Before the election, I visited Professor Kath Woods-Townsend and her team at a research-based project called LifeLab, which is a collaboration between the University of Southampton, University Hospital Southampton and the National Institute for Health and Care Research biomedical research centre. The project is centred around improving the health education of young people through practical visits to its labs at the hospital and involving them in its research processes. One of its recent studies found that some vaping brands are designed to mimic sweets and that some children are persuaded that there is an element of healthiness to fruit-flavoured vapes.

Imagine being a company that plays on that. Imagine being a company that knows about the risks of vaping—knows that it can cause lung-scarring and asthma as well as bringing an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, exposure to chemicals and breathing in metal in the aerosol—and yet wraps its product up in bright colours and fruit flavours and deliberately markets it towards our children, knowing the addictive nature of vapes and knowing the vulnerability of children and the social pressures they face. The job of business is to contribute to the economy, to innovate and to create jobs and wealth, not to run rampant with our children’s health to make a quick buck for shareholders. Effective educational programmes such as LifeLab, working in tandem with the Government’s sensible legislation and action, will promote better understanding and reduce harm.

We have seen before what legislation can do: when smoking under 18, proxy purchasing and advertising on cigarette packaging were banned, all those vital steps drove down the smoking rate. Now, it is time to stub out this habit—forgive me, Madam Deputy Speaker—once and for all.

The Labour Government are doing what is right by the youth of today by prioritising health over profit and ensuring that the next generation can grow up free from this addiction and its preventable diseases. Today, with cross-party support, I hope that we will take another ambitious step towards a future where our children’s wellbeing comes first. I am proud to be part of that.

17:29

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

I congratulate the Government on their very strong stance on tobacco and protecting children, but—the Minister will know what is coming—when it comes to refillable vapes, the Bill is missing the mark. Research by Professor Chris Pudney at the University of Bath discovered that one in six vapes confiscated in schools contained the synthetic drug Spice—a highly addictive and dangerous drug commonly found in prisons. It causes very dangerous health conditions, including damage to vital organs. On our streets, users are often slumped in a semi-conscious state, unable to function. In our schools, children are collapsing. Some are rushed to intensive care; others are left battling lifelong addiction. The highly addictive nature of Spice makes it a gateway to criminal activity, coercion and abuse.

I have spoken about this alarming issue on several occasions, and I have had some assurances from the Government, but so far I have not seen anything on it in the Bill. It will not do anything to stop the trend of Spice-spiked vapes in schools, because the vapes that contain Spice are almost all refillable. Refillable vapes are rechargeable and feature an empty pod that can be filled up with a liquid of choice. Banning disposable vapes will not address that problem. Many of the confiscated vapes containing Spice were made to look exactly like a normal product from a shop, and they are usually sold as containing THC—tetrahydrocannabinol—also an illegal product in this country. Children are inadvertently consuming Spice under the impression that it is cannabis.

Vapes containing THC are widespread in parts of the United States where they are legal, but importing them to the UK is costly and difficult. Spice, however, is cheap, readily available and highly addictive. Dealers exploit that by passing off Spice as cannabis, preying on young people and putting them at serious risk. This drug has the potential to condemn young people, in particular vulnerable young people, to a life of crime and addiction.

When such Bills come along, we have the opportunity to make them as strong as possible. There are other issues associated with Spice-spiked vapes, but I urge the Government to really look at what they can do to strengthen the Bill to address this serious problem. There are opportunities in the Bill, but focusing solely on disposable vapes risks backfiring; it may push demand towards refillable vapes, which are even easier to tamper with for illegal use. Have the Government really prepared for the potential unintended consequences? I hope that they acknowledge the points that I have raised. I look forward to seeing them addressed as the Bill progresses. I support the Government on their very strong stance and on what they want to achieve, but I hope that the Bill can be strengthened.

17:32

[Andrew Cooper (Mid Cheshire) (Lab)]

This piece of legislation carries immense significance for the health of our nation, and I welcome the steps being taken to protect people from the harms of tobacco, to create a smokefree generation and to tackle youth vaping. We are all too aware that smoking remains the biggest cause of preventable illness and death in our country, with decades of evidence in support of that. One in four cancers is driven by smoking. Around 160 people every day are diagnosed with a smoking-related cancer. Smoking causes asthma, stillbirths and dementia. The evidence around second-hand smoke is overwhelming; it causes increased rates of cancer, heart disease, stroke and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease—the list goes on.

Tobacco consumption is a primary driver of health inequalities right across the country. In the most deprived areas, the mortality rate ascribed to smoking is more than double that in the least deprived areas, as we have heard. This Bill is about not just health but alleviating the economic burden on our healthcare system. According to Action on Smoking and Health, smoking-related illnesses cost the NHS £1.9 billion each year in England alone. In Mid Cheshire, the cost of smoking exceeds £52 million annually, and more than £2 million in direct healthcare costs alone. By curbing tobacco use, we can alleviate some of that financial strain and redirect those resources towards more urgent health needs. Investing in prevention is far more cost-effective than treating diseases caused by tobacco.

In the time that I have, I want to focus on the regulation of vaping in the Bill. It is important to strike the right balance between reducing harm from tobacco and protecting young people. Vaping has a role to play in helping adults to quit smoking, and there are estimates that as many as an extra 70,000 people in England quit smoking by using vapes as an aid. However, youth vaping has more than doubled in the last five years, while almost six times more 11 to 17-year-olds vape now than did a decade ago. Many vaping products have very clearly been targeted at children through their packaging, flavours and marketing. While vaping is less harmful than tobacco, the vast majority of vaping liquids still contain nicotine, which is highly addictive and more impactful on children’s brains when they are trying to quit. Many of the long-term health effects of inhaled ingredients such as colourings and flavourings are unknown.

It is our responsibility to safeguard the health of our communities, particularly our children, who are vulnerable to the allure of smoking and vaping. I certainly welcome the Bill’s emphasis on more responsible regulation of vaping products. The power for the Secretary of State to require producers to produce studies on the ingredients of their products will be a vital tool in demonstrating the long-term effects of what is being put into vaping liquids.

The Tobacco and Vapes Bill is a crucial piece of legislation that aims to tackle a critical public health challenge. It will promote informed choices and alleviate economic burdens, and ultimately help us achieve our ambition of creating a smokefree UK. That is why I am proud to support this important Bill.

17:36

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

I noticed from the opening comments that the Opposition have a free vote on the legislation, as do the Lib Dems. I assure the Minister that the Ulster Unionist party group in this House is 100% behind the Bill, which means: I am.

I sincerely hope it is second time lucky for the Bill. Prior to getting elected to this House, I was the Minister of Health in Northern Ireland in the re-established Assembly when it came back in February 2024. The Bill was then going through this House. Despite hugely challenging pressures, there was a much appreciated latitude from the public health Minister, Andrea Leadsom, who worked with the devolved Administrations to ensure that the Bill had a four-nations approach. I thank the Government for continuing that approach. As the hon. Member for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan) described happening in Scotland, a legislative consent motion went through the Northern Ireland Assembly. More importantly, it received the full support of the four parties in the Northern Ireland Executive.

It was only right and proper that the profound public health benefits be extended to Northern Ireland. Like Scotland, Northern Ireland was included in the UK-wide consultation exercise, which closed in December 2023. There was particularly strong support for the measures from the people back home. The consultation received a proportionately higher response rate from the Northern Ireland population than the UK-wide population. While 62.5% of UK respondents were in favour of an ambitious smokefree generation proposal, the Northern Ireland figure stood at 79%. That was by far the greatest support from among the UK regions. Support was also much higher in Northern Ireland for a range of other proposals, such as restricting vape flavourings and displays.

Some of the flavours that attract children have been mentioned. There is also a move towards flavours, labels and names that appeal to older age groups. We now have “Brain Freeze” and “Killer Kustard.” The producers are moving on from young people who are already addicted to early teens, and are making sure that their addictions embed. It is important that this Bill addresses that.

While I am glad of the support that many of the measures have received across Northern Ireland, we need to remain mindful of the fact that if passed, the Bill will be a literal lifesaver for decades to come. Tobacco use is a leading cause of health inequalities in Northern Ireland. It is a tragedy, but an avoidable one, that the lung cancer incidence rate in the most deprived areas of Northern Ireland is about two and a half times the rate in the least deprived areas. A recent health inequalities report from the Department of Health in Northern Ireland showed that the gap between the healthy life expectancy of women in the most deprived areas and those of women in the least deprived stood at 14.2 years—not months, but years. That differential will be dealt with by this Bill and others like it. Moreover, smoking rates in the most deprived areas are typically almost three times higher than the rate in the least deprived. I therefore fully support any and all efforts to dissuade people, especially young people, from taking up the habit in the first place.

This Bill goes even further than the one that fell before the last general election. I will be honest and admit that at the time, I was hugely frustrated that the previous Bill was not given the time to succeed, and I feared that a once-in-a-generation chance to do something transformative might have been missed. Looking at the Bill now, however, I am pleased to see that, rather than potential being lost, it has the potential to be even more impactful, given all its enhancements. Mike Nesbitt, my successor as Minister of Health and the leader of my party, has been able to use the little extra time to consider the licensing provisions carefully. While Northern Ireland’s tobacco retailers register is a helpful enforcement tool, it has limitations, and a new licensing regime would be another significant step forward for my constituents.

I acknowledge that, like its predecessor, this Bill is complicated by our somewhat messy post-Brexit arrangements, but I take reassurance from this Government and the last Government on that, because surely they cannot both be wrong.

17:42

[Mr Alex Barros-Curtis (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow such powerful contributions from Members on both sides of the House—from my hon. Friends the Members for Suffolk Coastal (Jenny Riddell-Carpenter), for Southampton Itchen (Darren Paffey), for Worthing West (Dr Beccy Cooper) and for Mid Cheshire (Andrew Cooper), and the hon. Members for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and for Bath (Wera Hobhouse)—as well as the entire Ulster Unionist party delegation in the form of the hon. Member for South Antrim (Robin Swann).

I support this landmark legislation, which is an important step towards delivering on this Government’s manifesto commitment to ensuring that the next generation can never legally buy cigarettes, and to creating the first smokefree generation. This is an overdue natural step towards tackling the scourge of smoking, which claims about 80,000 lives a year in the United Kingdom. Smoking is the No. 1 preventable cause of death, disability and ill health in our United Kingdom, and it is responsible for one in four cancer deaths, killing up to two thirds of smokers. In Wales, tobacco causes 3,100 cancer cases every year, and smoking is still the leading cause of cancer there. However, cancer does not respect borders, so the Bill will serve the health interests of our entire United Kingdom. I welcome that, and I also welcome the Welsh Government’s commitment to supporting this legislation and bringing it into force in Wales from 2025.

In fact, the Welsh Government have been well ahead of the curve on this issue. As far back as 2016, my constituency colleague Mark Drakeford presented legislation that would have banned cigarette use in public spaces, but it fell owing to shameless politicking on the part of Plaid Cymru—whose Members, I note, have not been present at all for this important debate. Rather than agreeing with the Welsh Government and introducing what would have been landmark public health legislation, Plaid Cymru’s Members were joined by the Welsh Conservatives and the Members of the United Kingdom Independence party—remember them?—all of whom described it as unnecessary Government regulation. Plaid Cymru sided with the populist right in Wales to make a political point, and the people of Wales were worse off because of it.

Undeterred, in 2021 the Welsh Government launched their tobacco control action plan, which includes actions to protect children and young people from the dangers of vaping, such as tighter regulations on advertising and on the sale of e-cigarettes. That is a clear sign that the Welsh Government take this issue seriously, and it is our responsibility here in Westminster to support and complement those efforts. This Bill illustrates that this Government take seriously their commitment to create the first smokefree generation, and to protect children from becoming hooked on vaping.

Let us be clear: vaping is not harmless. In 2023, Action on Smoking and Health estimated that 20.5% of children aged 11 to 17 had tried vaping. Although vaping can be an effective way for adults to quit smoking, vaping cannot be recommended for children, as it carries a serious risk of addiction and future harm. Accordingly, rather than being a deterrent to smoking, vaping will see more children, not fewer, being exposed to nicotine if left unregulated. That is why the measures set out in the Bill to implement a total ban on vape advertising and sponsorship, and, subject to consultation, on the sale of vape flavours that overtly appeal to children, are so important. I fully support them.

This Bill is legislation that our teachers, headteachers, medical professionals and health services are all calling for. The vaping industry has been allowed to attract kids with different flavours and bright packaging. We would not allow that with any other addictive drug, and we should not allow it with vaping. In addition, the Bill does not deal with an aspect of vaping that I would be grateful for the Government to consider as the Bill continues its passage through Parliament. Currently, police officers do not have specific powers to confiscate vapes from children—a power that they do have with traditional cigarettes, pursuant to section 7(3) of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933.

Having spoken to South Wales police officers and police community support officers, I know that the power of confiscation is an important tool that they use to deal with antisocial behaviour in designated areas of Cardiff, but their work is neutered if they cannot confiscate vapes. Although I recognise that if this Bill is passed, such powers will not be necessary in time—indeed, it will omit section 7(3) of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 from 2027 onwards—I ask the Government to consider whether it would be useful to retain the power of confiscation and expand it to include vapes for the period between now and 2027, so that our police officers have the same legal powers across cigarettes and vapes as a tool in their armoury to combat antisocial behaviour.

Aside from that specific point, I reiterate my support for this important piece of legislation. Not only will it align this Parliament with the progressive actions of the Welsh Government on such important health matters; it will bolster our commitment in this place to safeguarding public health. In so doing, it will save many thousands of lives from the scourge of cancer and protect children from becoming hooked on vaping.

17:47

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

I will vote for this Bill. I admit that I am sceptical about the enforceability of the age escalator, but fundamentally the legislation addresses a huge problem in our society. There can be no doubt that smoking is a killer, so it is our responsibility to seek to diminish the death toll. Vaping is a totally unregulated sector, and I fear that it is a gateway to smoking for many young people. Therefore, it is right that it, too, comes within the ambit of the Bill.

The Secretary of State said this afternoon that this is a “four-nations Bill”. I welcome that, and I trust that it is right. That is the point I want to test in my contribution, and I will seek reassurance from the Minister about it. The reason I want to test it is that Northern Ireland, and Northern Ireland alone, is still subject to the EU’s tobacco directive. We are subject to the EU’s tobacco directive because it is one of the 289 EU laws listed in annex 2 of the protocol—or the Windsor framework, as it is now called—that remain in force in a part of this United Kingdom. Article 24 of the tobacco directive says:

“Member States may not…prohibit or restrict the placing on the market of tobacco or related products”.

Does this Bill, by its necessary steps, restrict the placing on the market of tobacco? If it does, it will fall foul of the tobacco directive and will therefore be unenforceable in Northern Ireland, because of our ridiculous subjection to foreign laws that we do not make and cannot change.

We have an illustration of what might happen, because in 2022 Denmark sought to introduce almost identical legislation. It had to withdraw it, and in withdrawing it, the Health Minister told the Danish Parliament on 6 April 2022:

“The ministry…therefore considers that a ban on the sale of tobacco and nicotine products to people born in 2010 or later would require an amendment to the European Tobacco Products Directive”.

On that basis, they withdrew it. Earlier this year, the Irish Republic was minded to introduce legislation like this, but it did not proceed for the same reason.

If we are in a situation where a part of this United Kingdom quite absurdly cannot be governed by laws that this Parliament wishes to make, we are in a very sad situation indeed. It is my fear that, like in Denmark, the imprimatur would not be forthcoming from the tobacco directive and we could therefore have a situation where laws that we want to make and apply throughout the United Kingdom cannot be applied because of our subservience to foreign jurisdiction. If that is so, it will be an appalling situation. The House will have an opportunity to do something about this when my private Member’s Bill comes before it on 6 December, and I trust that Members will take that opportunity to liberate Northern Ireland from the bind of foreign jurisdiction and foreign law.

There are vested interests who will try to challenge the Bill’s applicability in Northern Ireland because of the tobacco directive, and I am fearful of the line that the courts might take, because we have had some examples. This House passed—for better or for worse—the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023. It also passed the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Act 2024. I am not commenting on their merits; I am making it clear that when they went to the High Court in Belfast, both were declared inoperable in Northern Ireland. Why? Because of the supremacy of EU law.

If that were to happen with this Bill, it would be an absolute scandal. We would not be able to afford the people of Northern Ireland the same health protections that the Bill will afford to everyone else in the United Kingdom. And why not? Because we are subject to a foreign jurisdiction. It is the lifting of that jurisdiction that will bring us liberty to be governed as this House would wish us to be governed, and I trust that the Minister will be able to assure us that those fears are unfounded, that the Danes were wrong to withdraw their Act, and that our courts will—

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Andrew Gwynne)]

I am grateful to the hon. and learned Gentleman for giving way. I fully understand his concern. That is why this Government need to give credit to the previous Government, who worked so hard to make this a four-nation approach. I want to give him and the House the assurance that it is the responsibility of the UK Government to ensure the compatibility of the Bill with the Windsor framework. The Government have taken into account all domestic and international obligations in bringing forward this Bill today.

[Jim Allister]

It gives me no assurance if the Government’s commitment is to ensure compliance with the Windsor framework, because it is the Windsor framework that imposes EU law on Northern Ireland. Because the tobacco directive is one of the laws listed in annex 2 that continue to apply to Northern Ireland, it could trump this Bill. There is no point in the Government saying to this House, or to my constituents, that they will abide by the Windsor framework, because the Windsor framework binds us to EU law. It is only by setting it aside that we can have liberty.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am sorry to detain the House, but I make it clear that this is a United Kingdom law. It covers all four nations of the United Kingdom, and we are assured that it complies with the requirements of the Windsor framework. This law will stand.

[Jim Allister]

The previous Government told this House—and Government lawyers probably said the same—that the Rwanda Act would apply to Northern Ireland and that the legacy Act was unchallengeable, yet it turned out that both fell under the supremacy of EU law. On the face of it, the tobacco directive suppresses this Bill and still has legal force in Northern Ireland. If that is how it turns out, I would like to hear a commitment from the Minister that the Government will override any suppression of this law in Northern Ireland and stand up for UK sovereignty in my part of the United Kingdom.

17:56

[Jim Dickson (Dartford) (Lab)]

It is a privilege to speak in this debate on a Bill that delivers on our manifesto commitment to finish the job started by the right hon. Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak) at the back end of the last Parliament. We should be proud that, once the Bill receives Royal Assent, it will be the most advanced legislation of its kind in the world.

I should declare at the outset that I was a smoker, and that experience gives me particular clarity on the need for change. I am also honoured to be vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on smoking and health. I will use my six minutes to say a little about why this Bill is so necessary and—I hope the Minister does not mind —to gently set out where I think it could go further.

We often hear that smoking is about choice. The only choices I made were to have my first cigarette at the age of 15 and then, almost 15 years and thousands of cigarettes later, the much more difficult choice to finally give up.

According to the wonderful Action on Smoking and Health, which has been quoted widely in this debate, the majority of smokers wish they had never started, and it takes, on average, 30 attempts to quit. This legislation will ensure that future generations in this country, including in Dartford, will not have their freedom to choose stolen by a deadly addiction.

The latest figures, before their collection was interrupted by the pandemic, show that in Kent, nearly 6,000 people died from smoking between 2017 and 2019, with 10,000 hospital admissions due to smoking during 2019 and 2020 alone. Before being elected to this place, I was, for many years, a local councillor working on public health issues, and I saw at first hand the burden that smoking places on my local community. Now that I have the great honour of representing the wonderful constituency of Dartford, I see smoking taking a similar toll.

No matter where we are in the country, we will hear the same stories of loved ones lost too soon, of people becoming addicted as children and of the most disadvantaged groups bearing the heaviest burden. We cannot, and must not, accept a situation in which more than 74,000 deaths a year are attributable to smoking. We now know, with more clarity than ever, the damage that smoking causes. Smoking can lead to at least 16 different types of cancer, and it cost England £21.8 billion in 2023, mainly in lost economic productivity.

We have a chance to change this. Modelling by the Department of Health and Social Care estimates that raising the age of sale by one year every year will prevent almost 500,000 cases of stroke, heart disease, lung cancer and other lung diseases by the end of the century. It will save tens of thousands of lives and help untold numbers of people to lead healthier and more enjoyable lives.

An issue that often comes up when discussing measures of this nature is how we make them enforceable. The legislation enjoys widespread public support, with 69% of the public in favour of the measures, according to polling undertaken by YouGov for ASH earlier this year, and even a slim majority of smokers in favour, which indicates that many smokers recognise that we do not want the next generation to grow up addicted to smoking. The measures command high levels of public support, and when such policies are done with and not to people, compliance is self-enforcing and high.

Turning to where the Bill might go a little further, I welcome the additional powers to create smokefree outdoor spaces and to designate smokefree places as vape-free. However, I admit slight disappointment that the Government seem to have ruled out hospitality premises from the scope of the regulations, rather than setting out options via a consultation about how we might proceed. I hope the Minister will recognise that there are options other than an outright ban.

As the number of smokers in the UK continues to decline, there are discussions to be had about how we use public spaces and protect individuals from second-hand smoke, particularly children and those with health conditions. From my time in local government, I know that councils can play a vital role in improving the health of their communities. Councils across the country have used the pavement licensing system to create smokefree outdoor spaces. That has proved popular with businesses and customers, particularly families with children. I gently urge the Minister to consider whether the Bill might be amended to allow local authorities to decide which additional spaces, beyond those regulated nationally, they might like to make smokefree in the best interests of communities.

My final point, which reflects those made by other hon. Members, is about the “polluter pays” principle. We all know that public finances are under significant strain. If the funding we desperately need to create a smokefree country cannot be found in our existing budgets, I would urge Ministers to consider the imposition of a “polluter pays” levy on tobacco manufacturers.

18:02

[Mr Lee Dillon (Newbury) (LD)]

I was a smoker for 15 years, I have vaped for 12 years and I have three children under 12, who I hope will follow neither habit. I support the ambition to create a smokefree society. The harm to individuals is clear, as smoking causes 80,000 deaths per year, and the cost to the country is just as clear, with smoking costing the economy nearly £22 billion a year.

However, I have concerns about the ability of retailers to enforce the age escalator proposals. Will the Minister look at increasing the age at which people can buy tobacco by a year every year, rather than linking it to when a child is born? That would mean that people of the same age would have the same right, rather than two people being 37, for example, and one not being able to purchase tobacco because of exactly when they were born during the year.

My biggest concern about the Bill is the inclusion of vapes, alongside tobacco. Vaping is the fastest growing smoking-cessation method, and evidence has found that it is twice as effective as other tools used to stop smoking. I took part in the statutory instrument debate on 13 November and I support the ban on disposable vapes that that regulation enacted. The regulation will reduce the number of children vaping, the amount of dangerous fake vapes and the impact on the environment.

However, the Bill could go too far on vaping. The all-party parliamentary group on responsible vaping has provided a useful briefing. I believe the House will pass the Bill’s Second Reading later today, so I ask hon. Members to look at the briefing before we get to Committee. Part 5, clause 92 of the Bill has the ability to undo the Government’s ambition of a smokefree country, by potentially banning flavours under a future statutory instrument. A study of more than 20,000 vapers showed that those who start with flavoured vapes or move from tobacco to flavoured vapes are more likely to quit smoking.

That was my experience too. I first purchased a refillable vape in France, which came with a tobacco flavour and a cherry flavour. I went back to the gîte with my friends where we were on holiday. I knew what tobacco tasted like—I had my cigarettes in my pocket—so I tried the cherry flavour and enjoyed it so much that I never opened the tobacco-flavoured vape pot. I took the cigarettes I had in my pocket back home to England. They were on my bedside table for six months, after which I screwed the packet up and threw it away. I have not had a cigarette since.

I honestly feel that the provisions in the Bill for Ministers to be able to ban flavours for adults goes too far. For the record, I vape something called blueberry sour raspberry. It is not aimed at children—I buy it from a specialist vape shop where customers have to be over 18. I have the bottle in my pocket and it has no bright colours or fancy graphics on it. That is my preference as an adult to vape and it stops me wanting to pick up a cigarette again. If the Bill passes its Second Reading this evening, clause 92 should require that vape flavours are regulated with a balance between the impact on adults who would otherwise be smoking and the potential for youth uptake. Hon. Members should remember that disposable vapes have already been banned by the statutory instrument passed a couple of weeks ago.

Finally, before Ministers use the affirmative resolution procedure on any of the Bill’s parts or clauses, I urge them to undertake a comprehensive, evidence-based approach to vaping regulations. I will not vote against the Bill at this stage, but I hope the Government are open to practical amendments in Committee that support the ambition to have a smokefree generation without penalising those who already rely on vapes to lead a healthier lifestyle.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

We have three remaining contributions from Back-Bench Members. This is fair notice for colleagues who have contributed to the debate to make their way to the Chamber for wind ups. I call Kirith Entwistle.

18:06

[Kirith Entwistle (Bolton North East) (Lab)]

I declare that I am a member of the responsible vaping APPG. This is a long overdue and important piece of legislation, and I commend my hon. and right hon. Friends on the Front Bench for bringing it before the House.

My home of Bolton is confronting a dual crisis: the devastating impact of smoking and the escalating problem of youth vaping. Smoking continues to ruin lives and places a heavy burden on our NHS, which many of my hon. Friends and hon. Members from across the House have also mentioned. In Bolton North East, the crisis is deeply personal. More than 14% of our population still smoke, which is well above the national average. Tragically, between 2017 and 2019, smoking claimed the lives of 1,147 people in our community, including beloved parents, siblings and friends, leaving behind grieving families and stolen futures. Beyond its devastating human toll, smoking imposes an immense economic burden on Bolton North East. Nearly £100 million is drained every year in lost productivity and increased demands on health and social care. We desperately need that money to rebuild services and support local families.

I am proud that the Bill takes critical steps to address the harms of smoking and works towards creating the first smokefree generation. Yet while smoking is a crisis we know well, there is a new and growing threat: the epidemic of child vaping. In the latest Greater Manchester: Testing and Research on Emergent and New Drugs young person survey, 76% of respondents reported using a nicotine vape in the past year. Schoolchildren are now twice as likely to encounter nicotine through vaping as through cigarettes or tobacco. Flavours such as bubble gum and rainbow candy paired with colourful, cartoon-like packaging are blatantly targeting children.

Flavourings play an undoubtedly important role in helping adults to quit smoking, but we must be honest about how too many vapes are being deliberately designed as a gateway to nicotine for children who have never smoked. I welcome the measures included in the Bill outlined by the Secretary of State earlier, and I am pleased to see our Government taking the issue seriously. As a mother, I look forward to further discussions on how we can protect our children while continuing to support adults who are using vaping as a tool to quit smoking.

What concerns me most is how easily young people can obtain vapes, many of which are illegal and unregulated. In Bolton, we now have the second highest number of vape stores per capita in the country. That is more than twice the national average. Although most stores operate within the law, this widespread availability creates opportunities for illegal vapes to enter the market—vapes that violate safety standards, contain unsafe ingredients and pose serious health risks to our children.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Does the hon. Lady share my concern that there is a real problem with vapes being used in the coercion of children for grooming purposes as well?

[Kirith Entwistle]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention and, yes, I share those concerns quite deeply.

Bolton council has been doing excellent work to clamp down on illegal vapes. In September, 350 vapes were seized in raids across five locations in Bolton. Just this month, a shop received a closure order for selling illegal tobacco and vapes. I am pleased that this Bill responds to the needs of councils such as Bolton by introducing new powers for trading standards officers that will tackle the black market while protecting legitimate businesses.

The Bill is a commitment to the health and wellbeing of our communities and our future generations. It takes into account the need for the safeguarding of our children. For the families who have lost loved ones to smoking-related illnesses, for the schools that have been overwhelmed by the vaping epidemic, and for the young people being targeted by unscrupulous marketing, this Bill is for them and I commend it to the House.

18:11

[Mr Jonathan Brash (Hartlepool) (Lab)]

It is a rare thing in politics to have a moment when there is an absolute right thing to do, but consigning smoking to the history books for our children, our grandchildren and every generation that follows is one of those times. We should be under no illusion that the decision that we take today will, at some point in the future—long after we have left this place—result in a time when nobody smokes. That will be the legacy of this decision today.

I ask the House to indulge me for a moment. Let us imagine that, at that point in the future, somebody brings forward a Bill to decriminalise smoking, and the Minister, clutching their impact assessment, tells the House that it will kill only 80,000 people a year, that it will cost our NHS £3.6 billion and that 80% of the people who take it up will be under 20. Which one of us would vote for it? Which party leader would refuse to direct their troops in such a vote? Who would argue that it is freedom of choice to smoke in those circumstances? It is nonsense. The decision we are taking today is clear and it is for the good of this country.

[Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)]

The hon. Member talks about choice. I agree with what he has said so far, but does he agree that, when it comes to the banning of smoking for people born after 1 January 2009, there is no removal of choice in the Bill, because they cannot smoke anyway at the moment? Therefore, there is no removal of choice from those people.

[Mr Brash]

The hon. Member is completely correct in what he says, and it is the proportionate way to do it. Some of the arguments that I have heard today about freedom of choice are genuinely confusing. One Member asked earlier why we do not ban sugary foods or alcohol on that basis. I say that we have to draw the line somewhere. That is an argument for the decriminalisation of everything—cocaine, heroin, you name it, let’s go for it. No, we have to draw the line somewhere and, given the statistics around smoking, it is clear that this is the right line to draw.

I do not want to say a great deal more on this issue other than to reflect on the conversations that I have had with my children. We have been on a long journey when it comes to smoking in this country. I remember telling my children that they could eat a meal in a restaurant, and that those on the table next to them, in the smoking zone, would be smoking while they ate. They thought I was mad. I remember going to school on the bus and seeing the little cigarette holders in front of me because people used to be able to smoke on the bus. My children think that is madness. I can only hope that not long in the future children will look back and think that it was mad that we smoked at all.

I was asked about this Bill soon after I was elected by a friend, who is a parent. He knew it had fallen prior to the general election. He asked, “Will it be back?” and I said, “I am confident that it will be back.” He said, “But will it be in time?” and I said, “In time for what?” He said, “In time for her” and pointed to his teenage daughter. I am pleased to say to Mark, Kim and their daughter Bella that we are bringing it back in time and that it will make a massive difference to the lives of people in this country.

18:15

[Phil Brickell (Bolton West) (Lab)]

I would like to place on the record my support for the Bill, which the Government are right to describe as the biggest public health intervention in a generation. As someone who grew up around the NHS, with my first job being at Bolton hospital, I have seen at first hand the huge cost of smoking and vaping in my constituency. In Bolton, smoking claims around 380 lives a year. Across the UK, that number is 80,000, and tobacco-related illnesses put tremendous pressure on the NHS, with smoking responsible for one in four cancer deaths. Indeed, every single minute someone is put in hospital because of smoking. The appointments, the scans, the treatment—it all adds up. Smoking costs the taxpayer over £3 billion each year in healthcare bills.

The tide of public opinion has turned irrevocably. Eight in 10 Greater Manchester adults support ending smoking, according to the Make Smoking History campaign. I suspect that many have had family or friends impacted by smoking-related harms. Five years ago, the previous Government announced their ambition for England to be smokefree by 2030. Despite a stark warning from the Khan review in 2022 that

“without further action, England will miss the smokefree 2030 target by at least 7 years”,

I find it regrettable that the Conservatives did not get round to these literal life-and-death reforms before it was too late to legislate before the general election.

I am delighted that just a few months in we are already delivering on our manifesto pledges. A generational ban on purchasing tobacco for anyone born after 1 January 2009, new regulations for the extension of smokefree areas to include our schools and hospitals, and new restrictions on oral tobacco products such as snus are hugely welcome in our fight against smoking-related illnesses.

The Bill is hugely important, and I will focus the remainder of my remarks on vaping in particular. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton North East (Kirith Entwistle) noted, Bolton is regrettably one of the two vaping capitals of the UK, with over 20 vape shops registered per 100,000 people according to reporting in the Bolton News. Vaping can be a genuine aid for those seeking to wean themselves off smoking, but while it is clear that vapes, in combination with behavioural support, can support quitting, the health advice is unambiguous: children and adults who have never smoked should never vape.

What disturbs me is that vaping products are obviously marketed at children. Indeed, a number of vape stores in Horwich and Westhoughton in my constituency are not only garish eyesores but directly associate vapes with sweets and toys in their shop fronts. I have no doubt that many of my colleagues in the Chamber will be familiar with similar stores in their own constituencies. It is clear that bubble gum and candy floss flavours are not aimed at those adults genuinely trying to wean themselves off tobacco. This is not harmless; youth vaping has more than doubled in the past five years, while Bolton council has been told that children as young as 13 are unable to go an hour at school without vaping. Just last Friday, I visited St Catherine’s primary school in Horwich and was shocked to hear children no older than 11 directly raise their concerns around vaping with me. St Joseph’s high school in Horwich, which I had the pleasure of meeting last week here in Parliament, has had to install vape sensors, while the headmaster Tony McCabe has said he has already seen a rise in young people acquiring vapes from the black market. I hope the Minister will consider how to tackle the already expanding black market for these products. That is why I especially welcome the measures in the Bill to provide the Secretary of State with powers to regulate vaping products, including their content, flavour, packaging and product requirements.

[Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about illegal tobacco and other substances. It is really important that we bear down on that illicit trade. Illegal tobacco not only deprives the Exchequer of funds but means that all kinds of other nefarious activities can take place in the shops that sell it. Also, the illegal cigarettes sold do not extinguish. A few years ago in my constituency there was a house fire with fatalities as a direct result of illegal cigarettes.

[Phil Brickell]

I thank the right hon. Member for his contribution. I will take assurance from the Minister on that when he winds up.

I place on record my enthusiasm for the separate ban on single-use vapes from June 2025, which the hon. Member for Newbury (Mr Dillon) mentioned. As other Members have noted, not only are they particularly cheap and therefore accessible to young adults, but they are an inefficient use of critical resources, difficult to recycle and frequently littered around the countryside.

By introducing these world-leading reforms, we can create a smokefree generation and break the cycle of addiction and disadvantage. I am proud that it is a Labour Government who are delivering this legislation.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

We come to the shadow Minister.

18:21

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

Prevention is better than cure. As we have heard, smoking is a cause of many premature deaths and much serious ill health. That was why the previous Government introduced legislation to tackle it and restrict access to tobacco purchases for those born after 1 January 2009. This Bill builds on many measures in the previous one.

As we have heard, this is a Bill of two parts: tobacco and vapes. Those two parts have been received differently, a bit like Marmite and chocolate spread—part controversial, part pretty universally liked. The section on smoking and tobacco has proved to be a bit like Marmite—some people have liked it. My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) spoke eloquently of his passion for stop-smoking measures, his successful campaigning, and the previous Government’s success in reducing rates of smoking. My hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) spoke eloquently about the balance between libertarianism and choice, and the need for order, societal norms and the protection of others in society. The hon. Member for City of Durham (Mary Kelly Foy) spoke about the dangers of smoking and the difficulties and challenges for people trying to quit.

On the other hand, other Members expressed concern about the Bill. The hon. Member for Lewes (James MacCleary) talked about how the Secretary of State might use powers relating to outside places where people may smoke. The hon. Member for Newbury (Mr Dillon) shared his concerns about how measures on the age of sale will work in practice. Those will indeed be clunky measures for shopkeepers to try to enforce, and will have an effect on the cohort of individuals who are just either side of the threshold, who will require ID throughout their lives. The hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) spoke about how that measure will work in Northern Ireland, and although he received some assurances from the Minister, I am not sure that they were completely effective.

Although I confess that I do not like Marmite, it is a free vote this evening for Conservative Members, and I will support the Bill. The Secretary of State said in opening that 350 young people will start smoking today, most of whom will regret it, so why was 1 January 2009 chosen? I appreciate that that was the date in the previous Bill, but why did he choose it for his Bill too?

Let me move on to the area of chocolate spread—the part of the Bill on vaping. I think it was universally welcomed, and was supported by the hon. Members for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend (Mary Glindon) and for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan) among others. It includes measures to tackle vaping among children, on which I have personally campaigned. As others have said, the chief medical officer has been clear that for someone who smokes, vaping may be better, but if they do not smoke, they should not vape. As a Member of Parliament and a children’s doctor, I have been increasingly concerned about the sharp increase in children addicted to vaping and, more recently, to other nicotine products such as pouches. Schoolteachers have reported that children are unable to concentrate, or even complete a whole lesson, without visiting the bathroom to vape.

[Sir John Hayes]

I very rarely disagree with my hon. Friend. She is of course right about vaping, the effect that it has on children and the difficulty that schools have in managing it, as headteachers will no doubt have told Members across the House, but can she really go into the Division Lobby to support the Bill with this nonsense about age? The idea that someone aged 30 could smoke and someone aged 29 could not, and the idea that that could be policed or managed in any practical way, is just nonsensical. It was daft when the last Government introduced it, and it is daft now this Government have done so.

[Dr Johnson]

The challenge is that if we were to ban it altogether, we could risk criminalising people who were already addicted to tobacco products—adults who had made that choice. That is the reason why both present and past Governments put forward a measure to increase the age gradually, but I understand the points that have been made about the difficulties for shopkeepers and others in enforcing it over time.

I return to vaping. Doctors report a growing body of evidence suggesting that children may be having difficulty in school and suffering health problems as a result of vaping. A report from Healthwatch said that 31% of the more than 4,000 under-18s it surveyed were regularly vaping. Nicotine is a powerfully addictive product. Young people are particularly susceptible to it, so it is very important that we protect children from vaping and other nicotine products. After all, vaping is an adult activity; it is apparently designed to help smokers quit. While the industry may argue that the flavours and colours are enjoyed by adults—and they may well be—I struggle to understand why adults would want a vape flavoured like a unicorn milkshake, whatever a unicorn’s milk tastes like. The Healthwatch survey showed that fruit flavours are very popular with children, and the same has been repeated by various teaching unions, the British Medical Association, of which I am a member, Cancer Research UK and even a Government report from last year. I also do not see why an adult stop-smoking device needs to be disguised in the form of a highlighter pen, which could perhaps be hidden in a child’s pencil case, or created in the shape of a children’s cartoon character. Enticing and luring children into a lifetime of unwanted and potentially harmful addiction is immoral.

The Secretary of State is taking powers to regulate the flavours, colours and packaging of vapes, but how will he ensure that he stays one step ahead of an industry whose income depends on a new generation of addicts? He has taken quite extensive powers, which I know is of concern to some hon. and right hon. Members, but how and when does he intend to use them? What support will be given to children who are already addicted to vaping to help them quit?

Finally, while this is a free vote issue, I am pleased on a personal level to see some of the proposals that I put forward on the last Bill being incorporated into this one, particularly on the sponsorship and advertising of vending machines. Whatever our views on this Bill, it is a bold piece of legislation of good intention. It aims to improve the health of our nation and of our children in particular and to reduce smoking and prevent nicotine addiction in the young. It is not clear whether it will work, but we have to hope, for the health of all of us and our children, that it does.

18:27

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Andrew Gwynne)]

It is a pleasure to close this debate on behalf of the Government. I commend my hon. Friends the Members for City of Durham (Mary Kelly Foy), for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend (Mary Glindon), for Chatham and Aylesford (Tristan Osborne), for Suffolk Coastal (Jenny Riddell-Carpenter), for Worthing West (Dr Cooper), for Southampton Itchen (Darren Paffey), for Mid Cheshire (Andrew Cooper), for Cardiff West (Mr Barros-Curtis), for Dartford (Jim Dickson), for Bolton North East (Kirith Entwistle), for Hartlepool (Mr Brash) and for Bolton West (Phil Brickell) and, on the Opposition Benches, the hon. Members for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), for Lewes (James MacCleary), for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan), for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) and for South Antrim (Robin Swann), the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) and the hon. Member for Newbury (Mr Dillon), for a series of outstanding contributions this afternoon. Many of us on the Labour Benches remember the last Labour Government’s proud history of public health measures—indeed, some of us were in this place at the time. From the indoor smoking ban to putting an end to cigarette advertising, we took the bold action to drive down smoking prevalence, and the country is still feeling the benefits of those policies today. However, after 14 years of public health neglect, we have seen much of our hard work squandered. Health inequalities have grown worse, and life expectancy is stalling. Most appallingly, life expectancy is going into reverse in some communities.

[Afzal Khan (Manchester Rusholme) (Lab)]

I welcome this Bill. Some 6,000 children in Greater Manchester take up smoking each year, allowing tobacco and vape companies to profit from increasing health inequalities. If we eradicate smoking, Greater Manchester’s economy will gain over £2.5 billion each year, funds that could be allocated to our health and social care sector. Does the Minister agree that if we follow the recommendations of the smoking review by Professor Javed Khan OBE, who did an excellent job on that review, we have the unique opportunity to both save lives and reduce poverty, creating a healthier and more equal society?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution, not least because it allows me to place on record this Government’s thanks to Javed Khan for the work he did in his review of smoking. My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head, because in the parts of Greater Manchester that he and I represent, health inequalities are stark and visible. We are going to turn them around. Our health mission pledged to tackle the social inequalities that influence health, and to ensure that children have the very best start possible, in which they are given the building blocks for a healthy life. That will be an immense challenge, but every member of this Government is up for the battle.

Colleagues have made a number of points, and I will try to answer as many as I can in the time we have left. First, I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Harrow East for the work he has done on this issue over a number of years. I assure him that all tobacco products are covered by this Bill, including the chewing tobacco product that he referred to. My hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham, who has also been a passionate spokesperson for tackling smoking harm, is absolutely right to raise the issue of article 5.3. The new Labour Government take very seriously their obligations as a party to the World Health Organisation’s framework convention on tobacco control, and we remain fully committed to that convention, including the important commitment, under article 5.3, to protecting public health policies on tobacco control from

“commercial and other vested interests of the tobacco industry”.

The shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Melton and Syston (Edward Argar), referred to the powers to bring in smokefree places. We will consult on extending smokefree places to include areas outside schools, children’s playgrounds and hospitals in England. We believe that strikes the right balance between protecting the most vulnerable and recognising the pressures facing the hospitality sector. I want to make the shadow Secretary of State aware, though, that the Bill was designed in full consultation with, and to meet the needs of, the devolved Governments across the whole of the United Kingdom. It is a UK Bill, with powers that meet the requirements of each of the component parts of our country, and I reiterate that as far as England is concerned, this Government will seek to consult on schools, children’s playgrounds and hospitals only.

A number of Members, including the hon. Member for Harrow East, raised the topic of stop smoking services. We are putting an extra £70 million into local stop smoking services, which could help with up to 200,000 successful quits a year. We are still rolling out a smokefree pregnancy incentive scheme, which will support pregnant women in quitting and ensure that more babies do not suffer a hit to their life chances before they are even born.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

I am very sorry that I was not in the Chamber for the beginning of the debate. I have very strong views on this matter, because my father died of cancer—I quit 20 years ago, thank God. It occurs to me that we have heard from other people who have quit, and that we who have quit could be mobilised to help others quit. Why do the Government not use us? We could do a lot of good and provide a lot of help.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I think the hon. Gentleman has just talked himself into a job. He is absolutely right that the best people to advocate for stopping smoking are former smokers.

We will still encourage adult smokers to switch to vaping through Swap to Stop in England, and I am delighted that localities have asked for over half a million starter kits so far. On advertising regulations, of course the consultation will take place after Royal Assent, but I hope that I can assure the hon. Member for Harrow East that we will take away his point about ensuring that the NHS can still advertise Swap to Stop under those regulations. On a tobacco industry levy, fiscal matters are for the Treasury, but I am sure that his views and those of others have been communicated to Treasury Ministers.

The hon. Member for Lewes mentioned the rise of the black market. This is a line that has been parroted by the tobacco industry for years, so we need to spell out the facts. Whenever Governments of any guise have introduced targeted tobacco control measures, the black market actually has not prospered. Consumption of illegal tobacco has gone from 15 billion cigarettes nearly 25 years ago to just one 10th of that amount last year, and when the last Labour Government raised the age of sale from 16 to 18, the number of illicit cigarettes fell by a quarter. However, this requires better enforcement, and we will use every second of the generously long buffer period to support businesses in preparing for and implementing the changes, including through information campaigns. We are providing £10 million to trading standards to increase their capacity and capabilities next year, and there is £100 million for Border Force and His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs over the next five years to tackle illicit and under-age sales. The Bill also allows trading standards to issue on-the-spot fines of £200, and to reinvest the proceeds of those fines, and indeed the licensing regime, back into further enforcement.

[Bob Blackman]

Will the Minister consider ensuring that the fines are raised by at least inflation each year? Fines could be increased on a scale, to make sure that they keep progress with changes.

[Andrew Gwynne]

We have already doubled the fine proposed in the previous Government’s Bill, which is a step. I listened very carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s argument, and he might wish to pursue it in Committee, should he be fortunate enough to be a Committee member. I look forward to the debates we might have.

A number of questions about the licensing regime were posed by the shadow Secretary of State, as well as by the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan), the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) and others. I reassure the House that across the sector, there is broad consensus among retailers about a licensing scheme; more than four fifths of them have expressed their support. Unlike alcohol, there is no licensing requirement for tobacco. A lot of people outside this House would find that hard to understand. They assume that convenience stores, supermarkets and other places that sell alcohol are licensed in a similar way to sell tobacco products, but that is not the case. We will bring in a licensing scheme, because we know that will have a huge public health impact, as other licensing regimes do.

[Tristan Osborne]

When I was on a council, I had a portfolio managing licensing. Councils already manage significant licensing functions, so it would be very convenient to simply add this function to those. That would not necessarily be a significant bureaucratic hurdle, as has been said.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Local government will take the lead on this matter, and we will consult widely on how we bring forward the licensing regime, and on how we implement it through secondary legislation, following that consultation. An impact assessment will be prepared before the secondary legislation is introduced, but I want to work with local government across England—I am sure that ministerial counterparts in other parts of the United Kingdom seeking to bring in a licensing regime will do the same—to ensure that we get this right for local government. That includes ensuring that the cost of running a licensing regime is met by the regime itself.

[Mr Brash]

We have mentioned the fact that local government is responsible for public health. I have had our director of public health email me just today to say how supportive they are of this Bill. Local government wants this opportunity to try to improve the health of local people. The fears that local government would be under pressure are simply wrong, are they not?

[Andrew Gwynne]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. From the engagement that I have had with members across all parties in local government—elected members, officers and directors of public health—I know that they want these measures. They are up for introducing them, and for helping us to get them right.

The hon. Member for North Shropshire raised the issue of ID checks, as did a number of others. I gently say to those who expressed a degree of scepticism that most retailers already follow recommended practice and regularly ask customers for ID. We are stopping people from ever starting smoking, and 83% of smokers start before the age of 20. That means that someone who has never previously smoked is highly unlikely to want to take up smoking later in life. Our published modelling shows that smoking rates in England for 14 to 30-year-olds could be close to 0% as early as 2050 with the measures in this Bill.

[Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)]

As a former teacher, I hope that the Government are working across Departments. Will we work with the Department for Education to ensure that these conversations are had in our schools, right from the beginning, at primary level, and all the way through?

[Andrew Gwynne]

That is absolutely crucial. With this legislation, we have to make sure that we do not take our foot off the pedal when it comes to education and informing the next generation of children of the harms of smoking and vaping through our public health initiative.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

My constituents in Paisley and Renfrewshire South need a health service that moves from sickness to prevention, so can my hon. Friend confirm that this UK-wide Bill will impact my constituents? Has he had discussions with the Scottish Government about ensuring its implementation north of the border?

[Andrew Gwynne]

That is an important point, and it allows me to place on record my thanks to the Health Ministers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland for how they have approached our desire to bring all parts of the United Kingdom together to make a smokefree United Kingdom, not just a smokefree England, through this legislation. I hope that I can reassure my hon. Friend that I have had incredibly fruitful conversations with the Health Minister in the SNP Scottish Government. She is as wedded and committed to this Bill and its measures as we are in this House today. I am reassured that across the whole United Kingdom, we will be walking in step to ensure that the next generation of children never takes up smoking.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Andrew Gwynne]

I will not give way now, as I have to end my speech. I know that you are keeping a careful eye on the clock, Madam Deputy Speaker.

If I had had more time, I would have talked about the huge public health benefits of the Bill that will do so much to prevent death, dementia and disability in old age. I could have gone into further detail about the economic benefits of the Bill, such as getting people back into work and saving untold sums of money for our NHS, but, from my perspective, the single most important thing that the Bill will do is tackle those stark inequalities across our country, because this fight is personal to me.

I have seen the harmful effects of tobacco on the people around me my entire life. As a schoolboy, I was educated about the harms of smoking, but it did nothing to stop a number of my peers from getting addicted to cigarettes. As an MP, I have seen at first hand how tobacco has devastated deprived communities across our country, not least in Greater Manchester. As the Minister for public health, I am determined to end the cycle of poverty and ill health, the blight of addition, disease and despair caused by smoking. No longer will it sap the strength of our cities—Stoke, Sunderland, Salford and so many others. This is the will of His Majesty’s Government, this is the promise of the Bill, and I urge colleagues across the House to vote with us to protect their constituents and do the right thing.

Question put, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

18:46

Division 48

Ayes: 415

---

Labour: 319
Liberal Democrat: 38
Conservative: 23
Independent: 14
Scottish National Party: 7
Green Party: 4
Plaid Cymru: 4
Social Democratic & Labour Party: 2
Democratic Unionist Party: 2
Traditional Unionist Voice: 1
Ulster Unionist Party: 1

Noes: 47

---

Conservative: 35
Liberal Democrat: 7
Reform UK: 4

Bill read a Second time.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Tobacco and Vapes Bill:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 30 January 2025.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Consideration and Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(Chris Elmore.)

Question agreed to.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Money)

King’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Tobacco and Vapes Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of:

(1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by the Secretary of State, and

(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under or by virtue of any other Act out of money so provided.—(Chris Elmore.)

Question agreed to.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Ways and Means)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)).

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Tobacco and Vapes Bill, it is expedient to authorise—

(1) the charging of fees under or by virtue of the Act, and

(2) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Chris Elmore.)

Question agreed to.