Oral Answers to Questions Debate

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Department: Ministry of Justice

Oral Answers to Questions

Nicholas Dakin Excerpts
Tuesday 28th January 2025

(3 weeks, 1 day ago)

Commons Chamber
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Seamus Logan Portrait Seamus Logan (Aberdeenshire North and Moray East) (SNP)
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2. If she will make an assessment of the potential impact of the terms and conditions for prison officers’ pensions on the recruitment of prison officers.

Nicholas Dakin Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Sir Nicholas Dakin)
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May I take this opportunity to pay tribute to our prison staff for the essential work that they do? We are committed to improving the retention of experienced staff, because they are vital to keeping our prisons running. The Lord Chancellor has requested advice from officials on the pension age of prison officers, and we will continue to engage with trade unions as this is considered.

Seamus Logan Portrait Seamus Logan
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I thank the Minister for his warm words and encouraging remarks. He will know that in Scotland the “68 is too late” campaign by the Prison Officers Association enjoys cross-party and Scottish Government support, but the UK Government have refused to take action on this important issue. The current retirement terms ignore the reality of the frontline role that prison officers perform in prisons on a daily basis across the UK. It is a dangerous role, and no less so than that of firefighters or the police, who enjoy very different terms. Although justice is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, the pensions of Scottish prison officers are controlled by the UK Government. So will the Minister or the Secretary of State commit the Government to reviewing the current prison officer retirement age of 68, and will he meet me to hear this case in more detail?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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As I have said, the Lord Chancellor has requested advice on this matter. We promote our strong employee total reward package as part of our recruitment. The terms and conditions of the civil service pension scheme are some of the best in the public sector, with a low employee contribution rate and a significant employer contribution rate of 28.97%. However, that does not mean it is not a right and proper question to ask, and if the hon. Member wishes to have a meeting with me, I am quite happy to meet him.

John Whitby Portrait John Whitby (Derbyshire Dales) (Lab)
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3. What steps her Department is taking to support female offenders.

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Becky Gittins Portrait Becky Gittins (Clwyd East) (Lab)
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18. What steps her Department is taking to support female offenders.

Nicholas Dakin Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Sir Nicholas Dakin)
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This Government’s plan to support women is clear and ambitious: to reduce the number of women going to prison and to have fewer women’s prisons. Our Women’s Justice Board, which met for the first time last week, will support implementing this vision. I would also remind the House that, as the Minister responsible for youth justice, I have initiated a review of the placement of girls in custody, on which Susannah Hancock will report at the end of this month.

John Whitby Portrait John Whitby
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What family support is available for women at Foston Hall prison and young offenders institution?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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We know that family support is very important to women in custody, which is why grant funding has been awarded to the charity Parents And Children Together—PACT—to provide a resettlement family engagement worker in HMP Foston Hall, as well as in seven other women’s prisons.

Jayne Kirkham Portrait Jayne Kirkham
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Gaie Delap, the mother of a constituent of mine, was recalled to prison just before Christmas, despite complying with her curfew conditions, because the Government’s electronic monitoring services contractor could not fulfil its contract and find a tag to fit a frail 78-year-old woman. Can the Minister and the Secretary of State help to find a solution so that Gaie Delap can be released on her curfew, and so that women are not disadvantaged by the failings of the contractor’s electronic monitoring system?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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I thank my hon. Friend for raising this matter. In this case the court’s decision was to impose a prison sentence, and neither Ministers nor officials can intervene in sentences passed down by our independent courts. I understand the frustrations and can assure the House that we are working hard to find alternative approaches to ensure a secure resolution to this issue.

Paul Davies Portrait Paul Davies
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There are more than 3,000 women prisoners in England and Wales—a number that the Ministry of Justice projects will rise to 4,200 by November 2027. Like many, I welcome the newly established Women’s Justice Board, which will oversee efforts to tackle this issue and ensure a tailored approach to female offenders. What measures are being implemented to provide support through community sentences and residential women’s centres?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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We are awarding £7.2 million for the upcoming year to community organisations and local areas that are already supporting women in the community. We are also employing options to increase the use of residential provision as an alternative to short custodial sentences. That includes engaging with the judiciary to ensure that the option of a community order with a residential requirement is considered in appropriate cases.

Becky Gittins Portrait Becky Gittins
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I welcome the launch of the Women’s Justice Board, which is intended to reduce the number of women in our prisons, cut reoffending and better support our children. Will the Minister work with organisations from across the country, including North Wales Women’s Centre, to ensure not only that their voices are at the heart of the work going on, but that they have the resources and support needed to support the most vulnerable in our society?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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I pay tribute to women’s centres across the country such as that in north Wales for the excellent contribution that their work makes. I agree that short custodial sentences can be problematic; they exacerbate women’s underlying needs without allowing time for rehabilitation, and they separate mothers from children and mean that women are more likely to reoffend. That is why the Women’s Justice Board—I am grateful to my hon. Friend for welcoming it—aims to increase the number of women supported in the community. The board will also look at how we can better support mothers with young children.

Ashley Fox Portrait Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)
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Does the Minister accept that allowing biological men into women’s prisons increases the risk to female offenders? Does he further accept that only biological women should be housed in women’s prisons?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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The vast majority of transgender prisoners are in men’s prisons. We have continued the policy of the previous Government, but all policies are always under review.

Carla Lockhart Portrait Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)
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Across the UK we face the bizarre and worrying reality that common-sense protections for women are being dismissed. For example, in Northern Ireland a motion to ensure that biologically male prisoners who identify as women are held in male prisons has been opposed by many elected representatives in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and it is an issue that extends across the UK. What assurances—we do want assurances—can the Minister give that women’s safety is taken seriously, and that they are guaranteed single-sex spaces in prisons, and other settings, free from biological males who identify as women?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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Safe spaces for women are crucial and a No. 1 priority in everything we do.

Jim Allister Portrait Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
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The Minister refers to keeping under review the question of placing biological men in women’s prisons. Will he speak to the Justice Minister in Northern Ireland and ensure that she reviews that policy? Only last week she was defending the very policy that puts women at risk from biological men who are claiming the right to be retained in women’s prisons.

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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That is a devolved matter, though clearly we are happy to speak to the devolved Government about any issues.

Liz Twist Portrait Liz Twist (Blaydon and Consett) (Lab)
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5. What assessment she has made of the potential implications for her policies of the lessons learned following the Southport attack.

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Mark Sewards Portrait Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)
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20. What steps her Department is taking to increase prison capacity.

Nicholas Dakin Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Sir Nicholas Dakin)
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We took immediate action to prevent the collapse of the prison system by implementing SDS40. We are building 14,000 new prison places and have published our 10-year capacity strategy. We have launched an independent sentencing review, so that we never run out of prison places again.

Luke Myer Portrait Luke Myer
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I welcome the Government’s action to increase prison capacity, but I am worried about youth custody. My local police force is particularly concerned that there is simply not enough space in the secure custodial estate. Many vulnerable young people are at risk of being exploited by organised criminal gangs. That is less to do with young offenders institutions and more to do with the lack of capacity in secure children’s homes; that capacity has fallen since 2010. The number of Ministry of Justice contracted spaces is now around only 100 for the entire country, which is appalling. How will the Minister work with Department for Education to increase capacity, and protect vulnerable young people and our residents?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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We certainly do not wish to reduce capacity. I can confirm that we contract with local authorities’ secure children’s homes, and place children there. In 2010 we contracted for 191 beds, and currently we contract for 103. That correlates with a decrease in the number of young people in custody, mostly over the period when the Conservatives were in government. We do not currently intend to reduce overall capacity in the youth custody service estate, which comprises young offender institutions, secure training centres, secure school and SCH beds. However, we are recommissioning secure children’s home places, and cannot predetermine the outcome of that exercise, but I assure my hon. Friend that we will not run out of space.

Mark Sewards Portrait Mark Sewards
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December’s annual report on prison capacity stated that of the 88,400 prison places available, 97% are occupied, and it estimated that by 2032 we will have a prison capacity of around 99,000, but the central estimate of the number of prisoners stands at 104,100. What will this Government do to ensure that everyone who commits a crime worthy of prison is sent to prison?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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I assure my hon. Friend that that will be the case. People who commit a crime worthy of prison will be sent to prison. As we have assured the House, we have plans to build 14,000 new prison places, as set out in our 10-year capacity strategy. In six months we have added 500 prison places. It took 14 years for the Conservatives to do that. We have also launched an independent sentencing review, so that we never run out of places again. Taken together, these measures will ensure that the country does not have more prisoners than we have space for in our prisons.

Jim Shannon Portrait Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
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On building capacity, armed forces veterans concern me and many in this Chamber. They often live with post-traumatic stress disorder and have emotional memories and nightmares of what they have done in uniform for this country. What extra can be done to better look after our veterans in prison? They fight with demons every day. We have to look after them.

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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The armed forces covenant affects us all. His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service ensures that veterans’ issues are properly addressed with the individuals concerned, to give them the proper support that they need.

Anna Sabine Portrait Anna Sabine (Frome and East Somerset) (LD)
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9. What steps she is taking to support survivors of domestic abuse and violence against women through the criminal justice system.

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Liz Saville Roberts Portrait Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
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11. What steps she is taking to improve prison conditions.

Nicholas Dakin Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Sir Nicholas Dakin)
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The right hon. Lady is right to raise this issue. We inherited historic under-investment in maintenance and a rising prison population. That is why we have already published our 10-year prison capacity strategy and have plans to invest £220 million in prison and probation service maintenance in ’24-25, and up to £300 million in ’25-26.

Liz Saville Roberts Portrait Liz Saville Roberts
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I rise as the co-chair of the justice unions parliamentary group. The emergency extra money to tackle the squalid state of our prisons is welcome, but given the £2 billion maintenance backlog, the reality is that the extra money will not touch the sides. This shows exactly why the privatisation of prison maintenance is a failed model. Private contractors may win contracts on low bids, but billions come in as extra cost later. Does the Minister seriously think that current prison maintenance providers offer good service and value for money to the taxpayer?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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The right hon. Lady is right. We inherited contracts that were already well progressed; for best value and to move things forward quickly, we decided it was important to keep going with that process. However, I can assure the House that we have an open mind regarding private and public sector contracts in the future. The important thing is to get best value for money and get the job done.

Blair McDougall Portrait Blair McDougall (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)
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Katie Allan was a beautiful and bright young woman, and would have been a constituent of mine but for the fact that, aged 21, she found herself, after a youthful stupid mistake, in Polmont young offenders institution, where she died from suicide. The fatal incident inquiry recently published into her death and the death of William Brown found that they both might be alive today were it not for a catalogue of errors by the Scottish Prison Service. The families of those who have lost children in such circumstances are campaigning for Crown immunity to be removed from prisons across Britain, so that there is proper accountability and more young lives are not lost. Will the Minister meet the families to discuss that proposal?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He draws attention to a deeply disturbing case. I am very happy to meet him and the families concerned.

Peter Bedford Portrait Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)
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14. What steps she is taking to increase public confidence in the justice system.

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Alex Ballinger Portrait Alex Ballinger (Halesowen) (Lab)
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16. What assessment she has made of the effectiveness of the youth justice system in preventing reoffending.

Nicholas Dakin Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Sir Nicholas Dakin)
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The number of children in custody has fallen significantly over the last decade, but those who are detained are now a more complex and violent cohort. Our turnaround programme provides funds that enable youth offending teams to intervene early to address child offending. Only 5% of children who completed such interventions received convictions in the first year of the programme, but we are continuing to take stock of what more can be done.

Alex Ballinger Portrait Alex Ballinger
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Last week, tragically, 12-year-old Leo Ross was stabbed to death in Birmingham as he was returning home from school. His 14-year-old killer had been arrested several times for violent offences in the months running up to the killing. Can the Minister tell me what the Government are doing to reform the youth justice system to address and prevent the knife crime among our young people that is resulting in terrible tragedies like the one we saw last week?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait Sir Nicholas Dakin
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I am deeply saddened by this tragic crime, and my thoughts and, I am sure, those of everyone else go to the family of Leo Ross. Such horrific events underline just how important it is to deliver our manifesto commitment to ensure that every young person caught in possession of a knife is referred to a youth offending team and that appropriate action is taken. We are also piloting a new, more robust form of community punishment for children, involving mandatory GPS monitoring and intensive supervision.

Lisa Smart Portrait Lisa Smart (Hazel Grove) (LD)
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17. What steps she is taking to reduce processing times for deputyship applications by the Court of Protection.

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Peter Swallow Portrait Peter Swallow  (Bracknell) (Lab)
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T2.   What support has the Ministry of Justice put in place for those serving indeterminate sentences for public protection, especially where they have additional needs?

Nicholas Dakin Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Sir Nicholas Dakin)
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It is right that IPP sentences were abolished. Last week, I hosted a roundtable for MPs to discuss their concerns about IPP sentences and share the work the Department is doing. The Prisons Minister in the other place hosted a similar roundtable for peers. We are determined to make further progress towards a safe and sustainable release for those serving IPP sentences, while recognising that at all times public protection is paramount.

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
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I call the shadow Secretary of State.