Oral Answers to Questions
Mark Harper Excerpts(4 days, 13 hours ago)
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Damien Moore (Southport) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
Before I answer my hon. Friend’s question, may I just welcome very strongly your statement at the beginning of business, Mr Speaker, standing up for the rights of Members to debate things in this House and the importance of protecting their security? That is welcome, and I am sure it will have been welcomed by all parts of the House.
In answer to my hon. Friend’s question, Network North will see a further £19.8 billion of investment in the north of England following the redirection of funding from the second phase of HS2. Liverpool city region is one of six areas to benefit from nearly £4 billion of uplift in the second round of the city region sustainable transport settlements. A further £1.48 billion is going to the non-mayoral local authorities to fund a wide range of projects. Guidance on how that should be spent will be forthcoming shortly.
Damien Moore
My right hon. Friend knows how important rail connectivity is to my constituents. It will be further enhanced by the reconnection of the Burscough curves, a project that is also supported by our hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Katherine Fletcher), who has her own campaign for a station at Midge Hall. Given the importance of schemes that link areas, will he issue stronger guidance for transport authorities to have better links between each other, rather than just within their own transport areas?
Mr Harper
As my hon. Friend knows, I recently hosted a roundtable, bringing together him, his local authority, Lancashire County Council, local rail operators and other interested parties to discuss how to further develop the business case for the Burscough curves. He will be aware that we have allocated that money to the local transport fund. Lancashire County Council will get £494 million over seven years, starting next year. I suggest he continues the conversation we have had to urge the council to look at developing that scheme. We will be publishing guidance encouraging it to do that, working with Members of Parliament in the very near future.
Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab)
When will the Secretary of State improve on the timetable at the time of Gladstone?
Mr Harper
I am not entirely certain—the Rail Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman) set out clearly the improved performance that we have seen this year. We are clear that we are integrating track and train with our rail reform that is being scrutinised in the House, and that will improve things. We have recently reorganised the Department, bringing in Alex Hynes to link that together. That is how we deliver improved performance. We have set out those plans clearly. Legislation before this House is being scrutinised by the Select Committee of my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart). We look forward to its report, which I understand we will get before the summer recess, to take those plans forward.
Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con)
We welcome the £494 million in Lancashire, as you will in Chorley, Mr Speaker. We have also been having discussions about what we want to see with that funding, whether that is at the Hare and Hounds junction in Clayton or just fixing potholes across the constituencies. One of the important things in Hyndburn and Haslingden is making sure that our train stations are accessible for everybody. We currently have a few bids in, including Church & Oswaldtwistle and Rishton. Will the Secretary of State look favourably upon those bids?
Mr Harper
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for welcoming the money that will go to her local authority. We will make it clear in the guidance, which I hope will be welcome to you as well, Mr Speaker, that local authorities should very much involve their Members of Parliament in discussing those priorities. I hope that every Member in the north and the midlands where local authorises are getting those funds will take advantage of that.
On my hon. Friend’s specific point about accessibility and our Access for All programme, as she knows, a number of bids were made and they are currently being scrutinised. I hope that, in the near future, we will be able to set out which ones will be funded. I urge her to wait for that announcement. I wish her good luck. Obviously, I cannot prejudge that process, but I hope that she is successful.
Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
Will the Secretary of State explain why train fares have risen almost twice as fast as wages since 2010?
Mr Harper
The hon. Lady will know that over the last two years the Government have made significant interventions to keep rail fares rising no faster than the rise in people’s wages. She also knows that we have to balance the farebox against the taxpayer. She will know that, because of the pandemic, the taxpayer has put in £31 billion over a couple of years to protect the rail industry. Passenger figures have not yet recovered to their numbers beforehand. That is why it is important that, as soon as we can, we get rail companies on contracts that incentivise them to drive up the number of passengers using the service, which is how we will reduce the call on the taxpayer and enable fares to be kept competitive.
Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
The UK boasts a strong and highly competitive bus manufacturing industry. Manufacturers have benefited significantly from Government funding as we work with industry to decarbonise the bus fleet. More than 5,200 buses have been funded across the UK since February 2020, with UK bus manufacturers supporting many of them. UK manufacturers have grown substantially in recent years as a result of their success in securing orders, supported by £460 million of dedicated ZEBRA—zero-emission bus regional areas—funding.
Alan Brown
The reality is that the UK Government could do much more. At Tuesday’s sitting of the Transport Committee, Mick Whelan of ASLEF said that in Germany, they have German trains and in Italy, they have Italian trains. He said:
“Before they award a Government contract, they look at their supply chains, future apprenticeships and all the things associated with those contracts”.
Why does the UK continue to destroy its own industrial base by refusing to implement similar procurement policies for all transport manufacturers, including buses? There is too big a reliance on Chinese imports.
Mr Harper
As I said, UK bus manufacturers have done very well out of decarbonisation policies. They are every competitive, and I have had the opportunity in this job to visit a number of them. If the hon. Gentleman believes that there is unfair competition from imports, he knows that there is an independent statutory body, the Trade Remedies Authority, whose responsibility it is to look at importers where there might be dumping. If he thinks there is any evidence of that by any manufacturers, he should provide that evidence to the Trade Remedies Authority so that it can conduct an investigation, as appropriate.
Simon Lightwood (Wakefield) (Lab/Co-op)
The UK has a proud bus manufacturing history, from London’s iconic original Routemasters to Alexander Dennis’ next generation of hydrogen double-deckers used today in the Liverpool city region. As operators and local authorities decarbonise their fleets, UK manufacturers are ready to power that green revolution, but our bus makers are at risk from cheap models imported from overseas. This week, a major UK operator is preparing to procure Chinese-built buses for tens of millions of pounds due to cost pressures and because this Government have not set out a full industrial strategy since 2017. Will the Secretary of State tell the House what he will do to back British bus manufacturers and secure their role in this green revolution?
Mr Harper
The hon. Gentleman will know that it is not possible, given our international commitments under the World Trade Organisation, to specify that people have to buy British buses. He will also know that British bus manufacturers are very competitive. The Government have made support available to businesses through our Advanced Propulsion Centre and UK Export Finance. As I said to the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown), if the shadow Minister thinks that there is any unfair competition with subsidised imports, the Trade Remedies Authority has all the tools at its disposal to deal with that.
We back British buses. We have fantastic manufacturers, and I have confidence in them. In a fair competition, our bus manufacturers can take on the world. Wrightbus has had £76 million of support from UK Export Finance to support its ambitious exports. It is a shame that he does not have the same faith in British industry that we do.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
Deary me, Mr Speaker. We have confidence in the bus manufacturers, and it is a pity that the Government do not—that is the problem. Unlike SULEBS and ScotZEB—the Scottish ultra-low emission bus scheme and the Scottish zero-emission bus challenge fund—the ZEBRA scheme has been a failure. No spin from the Dispatch Box can deny that, and our bus manufacturers are paying the price. We must learn from this, and we can start by encouraging those purchasing zero-emission buses to place greater emphasis on social value and wider environmental and economic impacts when evaluating tenders. The Government must take responsibility. Will the Secretary of State consider conducting a cross-Government review into prioritising domestic manufacturing within existing legal frameworks?
Mr Harper
People are able to put social value into their tenders. My understanding is that local authorities do that, but they are not allowed to have a specific commitment to buy from a certain provision. The hon. Gentleman has to decide whether he has confidence in our fantastic companies, as he set out. In a fair competition, some of the companies that have been mentioned—some of which I have visited—can win against competitors around the world. If he thinks that there is unfair competition and that companies are being subsidised, he should give the evidence to the Trade Remedies Authority, which has the legal structures and the tools to do the job.
Mr Speaker
We’ve had one question about buses, and then a second one comes along.
Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
The Government are firmly on the side of drivers, which is why we are using funding reallocated from the HS2 programme to improve the condition of the country’s local highways network. Our record funding increase of £8.3 billion for local highways maintenance in England over the next decade will enable highways authorities to resurface roads and fix thousands of potholes across the country.
Martin Vickers
The Secretary of State and his Ministers are well aware of my campaign for the removal of the concrete surface of the A180. It is now six years since I received a letter from the then roads Minister telling me that the work would be completed by the end of 2021. Can the Secretary of State tell me when work will begin to remove that concrete surface and make the road much safer than it is at present? Can he give me a firm date?
Mr Harper
My understanding is that the A180 is part of the National Highways concrete roads programme and that there is a plan to undertake additional treatment to reduce noise substantially early in the next road investment period, which starts next year. My hon. Friend may wish to meet the roads Minister to discuss the matter in more detail and secure some specific information about the timing.
Philip Dunne
As my right hon. Friend knows, Shropshire’s road network is the fifth longest in all the English local authority areas. Last autumn, he made a welcome announcement about a significant increase in funding—£150 million—to repair and improve roads, and he made another in February about the HS2 reallocation of £136 million. Will he explain to me, and to other Shropshire Members, what that will mean in practical terms for the amount to be spent on roads during the next Parliament?
Mr Harper
My right hon. Friend is correct: Shropshire County Council will receive two pots of money, a minimum uplift of £153 million from 2023 to 2034 for highway maintenance and a further £136 million under the new local transport fund, starting next year and continuing for seven years. Those figures represent a significant increase on what the council would otherwise have received. We will provide more detail shortly about the guidance on how the money should be used and, as I have said in response to earlier questions, Members of Parliament will be involved in setting those priorities.
Sarah Dyke (Somerton and Frome) (LD)
Somerset is unfortunately home to tens of thousands of potholes. Persistent flooding makes the problem worse, but so does the lack of attention given to improving the resilience of our roads. Does the Secretary of State recognise the importance of future-proofing them, with specific funds for local authorities to spend on measures of that kind, as opposed to pothole funding that serves only as a temporary sticking plaster?
Mr Harper
I am pleased that the hon. Lady has asked that question, because I absolutely do. Part of our purpose in not only giving local authorities that significant funding increase but spreading it over 10 years, so that they have certainty over a longer period, is to enable them to move away from dealing with pothole filling and to embark on a proper road resurfacing programme. That funding will pay for the resurfacing of more than 5,000 miles of roads, thus delivering to the hon. Lady’s constituents the improvement that we all want to see.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
Residents in West Fenham recently said to me that car mechanics must be the main beneficiaries of Conservative transport policy, given the steady flow of work for them caused by the terrible state of the roads. A local authority survey says that the roads are in their worst condition for 28 years, and AA call-outs are at a five-year high. How can the Secretary of State possibly say that he is on the side of drivers when the roads are in such a terrible condition?
Mr Harper
The hon. Lady has just demonstrated why our decision to allocate a very significant and unprecedented increase in spending to improving local highway maintenance is exactly the right thing to do. I have noticed that my local authority is busy resurfacing roads across my constituency and the rest of Gloucestershire. The money we are providing will enable every local authority to do that over the coming decade.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
At the last Transport questions, the Secretary of State suggested that drivers know what they are getting with a Conservative Government. Well, drivers know one thing they are getting from this Government: more potholes—a hundred times as many as there are craters on the moon. In 2023, RAC patrols attended 33% more breakdowns related to poor road maintenance than in 2022, and AA call-outs were at a five-year high. The road repairs backlog has gone up to an eye-watering £16.3 billion, which is far greater than his allocation of money from scrapping the northern leg of HS2. Is it not abundantly clear to drivers, and to everyone else, that it will take the election of a Labour Government to fix Britain’s roads, just as it will take the election of a Labour Government to fix Britain?
Mr Harper
I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman has asked that question, because we have set out our plan very carefully. There is £8.3 billion of extra money to improve the quality of local roads. The Labour party has not backed that plan and has not committed a single penny of money to local roads, so the choice is clear: if people vote Conservative, they get £8.3 billion spent on roads; if they vote Labour, they get none.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
Since the last Transport questions, my Department has been getting on with our plans: £143 million for new zero-emission buses; a world-leading sustainable aviation fuel mandate; cutting red tape for small-scale fishing businesses; taking steps to future-proof the £18 billion classic car industry, which supports tens of thousands of skilled jobs; and ensuring that taxpayers can hold local councils to account for how they spend their record funding boost for road resurfacing, made possible by reallocating High Speed 2 funding. All Labour has been able to offer is an unfunded, incoherent rail nationalisation plan, putting the unions in charge, cutting services for passengers and containing anti-car targets, taking us back to square one.
Mr Robertson
Given that Tewkesbury is one of the fastest growing areas of the country, does the Secretary of State agree that we need to expand the A46 and junction 9 of the M5, and not reduce its capacity or downgrade it in any way? If any agency puts plans to him to downgrade the A46 or junction 9, will he reject those plans?
Mr Harper
I am grateful to my hon. Friend—and Gloucestershire neighbour—for raising that issue. He rightly sets out that his constituency is one of the fastest growing. He is a doughty champion for his constituents and I am sure that any agency thinking of downgrading any of his road network would not dare to do so, for fear of the consequences of having to deal with him on the warpath.
Mr Harper
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for advance notice of the question—she wrote to me this morning. I will say a few things. First, she will know that the insurance industry is the responsibility of the Treasury, but it is an important issue for drivers, so I am happy to deal with it. I read her letter with great care, and I notice that it contains no plan and not a single proposal to deal with the cost of insurance. Whereas this week the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), chaired a roundtable with Treasury Ministers and the industry to look at these important issues, which are also in evidence across Europe.
Secondly, having read the letter carefully, I notice that the hon. Lady takes a pop at postcode pricing, which is about pricing according to risk. It seems to me that she is proposing—I am sure she cannot really mean this—to put up insurance costs across the country to reflect the Mayor of London’s failure to grip crime in inner London.
Louise Haigh
Given that the Secretary of State had advance notice of my question, I am afraid that his answer shows how out of touch with reality he has become. Car insurance is not a luxury but a legal requirement, and it is completely unaffordable for millions of drivers. There has been a £219 increase in the average premium in two years. Instead of parroting conspiracy theories about 15-minute cities, why does he not do his job, take action, demand action from regulators, call in the Competition and Markets Authority, and act on soaring insurance premiums?
Mr Harper
I will say a couple of things. First, the hon. Lady called for action. My hon. Friend the roads Minister has already been meeting the industry and Treasury Ministers, who are responsible for the industry regulator, so we are already doing that. As I said, this is an issue not just in the UK but elsewhere.
Secondly, as I said, the hon. Lady said in her letter that she was looking at outlawing the ability for insurers to price according to risk in local areas. I am sure that hon. Members noticed that she has not denied that, so they will know that she is proposing for people across the country to face higher costs to reflect the higher crime that we see in inner London, where her Labour Mayor has failed to get a grip.
Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Ind)
Sir Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con)
In Horsham we have a significant problem with car racing on specific stretches of road. Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a role for speed cameras in deterring those activities and the real risks they represent?
Mr Harper
I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for raising the important matter of road safety. He is right that there is a role for speed cameras. Decisions for enforcing speed limits are for the police and local agencies. I know he has raised the issue with them. I hope our exchange today will continue to put pressure on them, that the campaign he is running to ensure safer roads for his constituents is successful, and that the police take note.
Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)
The Labour Mayor of South Yorkshire has been given colossal sums of money by this Government. Sadly, it appears that he chooses to spend it on Sheffield supertrams and Sheffield’s transport infrastructure, not Doncaster’s. Will the Minister send a clear message to him that he should spend this money not only wisely, but across the combined authority, not just in Sheffield?
Mr Harper
It is obviously up to mayors to decide how to spend the money, but I would expect them to spend it fairly across the entire region that they represent. Given that fantastic Members of Parliament such as my hon. Friend will hold them to account, voters in his constituency and across the combined authority area will hopefully make the right decision, when they get the chance.
Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (SNP)
New evidence shows that Ofgem’s targeted charging review has led to significant increases in public electric vehicle charger standing charge rates, which are passed on to the consumer. In one site in northern Scotland, costs have increased from £315 to £809 per day. What will the Minister do to regulate the cost of electric vehicle charging nationally?
Vehicle Regulations
Mark Harper Excerpts(4 days, 13 hours ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
I am pleased to inform the House that today I am publishing a strategy setting out our approach to the future regulation of road vehicles.
Following our departure from the EU, we have the freedom to rethink the “type approval” rules which apply to all cars, vans, motorcycles and other vehicles sold in the UK.
While maintaining our high standards of safety and environmental protection, wherever possible we will reduce the administrative burden of demonstrating compliance with regulations.
We will build a framework based on three key principles:
Use international standards wherever possible—making regulation cheaper to follow for importers and exporters.
Deregulate low-risk areas and accept alternative national standards where international standards do not exist or are not suitable. If we don’t need to regulate, we won’t. If products can be proved safe in a comparable jurisdiction, we won’t impose the cost of unnecessary retesting.
Introduce UK-specific rules only where necessary, for example to introduce new technology more quickly, to simplify administrative requirements for industry or where we need to act for safety reasons.
In the short term, we will implement these principles with a three-year programme of reform to retained EU regulations. This will include options for future emission regulation and plans to introduce new safety technologies, such as automated lane keeping, and regulation to strengthen cyber security.
I will place a copy of “A Vision for GB Type Approval” in the Libraries of both Houses.
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Automated Vehicles Bill [Lords]
Mark Harper ExcerptsWednesday 1st May 2024
(2 weeks, 5 days ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
I was going to say a number of things, but the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire (Anthony Browne) covered them in his response. I will resist the temptation, which is not often resisted, to repeat them. All I will do by way of my remarks is say a few thank yous.
We are debating a Bill to have self-driving vehicles, but since we have not yet reached the point where we have self-driving Bills, I want to thank my hon. Friend the Minister for his work in steering the Bill not just on Report today but through Committee. I thank the Chairs and the members of the Public Bill Committee for their work both in Committee and in taking evidence. I also want to thank hon. Members on both sides of the House, even where there are differences on some of the detail, for their overall support for the Bill.
The Bill is part of our strategy to ensure Britain is at the forefront of this exciting new technology; to ensure that we can create well-paid, secure jobs in this country and lead this industry; and to ensure that we have safer roads, with technology which will contribute to an improvement in road safety and continue Britain’s leadership in that position.
I am grateful for the support of colleagues and hope the Bill will be read a Third time without a Division.
Sustainable Aviation Fuel Mandate
Mark Harper Excerpts(3 weeks, 4 days ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
This Government are fiercely proud of the success of Britain’s aviation industry, and are committed to ensuring it continues to grow and succeed in future. Decarbonisation is critical to that future, and today we are setting out another key step in delivering that by publishing the full policy detail of a world leading sustainable aviation fuel mandate which will deliver 10% of all jet fuel in flights taking off from the UK from sustainable sources by 2030 and 22% by 2040. It will be one of the first in the world to be put into law and, subject to parliamentary approval, will be implemented from 1 January 2025, once again putting the UK at the forefront of decarbonising air travel. We are also today launching a consultation on an industry-funded revenue certainty mechanism to support investment in the UK’s SAF production industry.
Today’s announcements are good for aviation, the environment and for the UK overall, with the SAF industry estimated to add over £1.8 billion to the economy and create over 10,000 jobs across the country. The SAF mandate will drive demand for SAF in the UK, secure emission reductions and provide investor confidence. A revenue certainty mechanism will also incentivise investment in UK SAF production, helping to drive growth across the UK, secure the supply of British-made SAF, and maintain the UK’s position as a global leader.
This is part of the Government’s plan to deliver on our net zero commitments while ensuring we take a pragmatic and proportionate approach which minimises unnecessary burdens on the public.
SAF mandate
Following extensive consultations with the industry the SAF mandate will deliver emission reductions of 2.7 MtCO2e in 2030 and 6.3 MtCO2e in 2040 and create high value jobs, particularly in the production of the most advanced fuel types. The Government will lay secondary legislation this summer so that the scheme comes into effect on 1 January 2025.
The Government first consulted on the introduction of a SAF mandate in July 2022 and subsequently confirmed it would be introduced from 2025. This suggested at least 10% of UK aviation fuel should come from sustainable sources by 2030 and included key elements, such as robust sustainability criteria, to ensure fuels drive genuine benefits and sub-targets to incentivise diverse SAF production pathways. A second consultation, in March 2023, focused on the detail of the scheme, key policy parameters and design of the SAF mandate. Today, the Government are confirming a trajectory for the mandate from 2025 up to 2040 that is ambitious but realistic. The mandate will start in 2025 at 2% of total UK jet fuel demand, increase on a linear basis to 10% in 2030 and then to 22% in 2040. From 2040, the obligation will remain at 22% until there is greater certainty regarding SAF supply.
The mandate will also include a cap on the feedstocks that are used in the hydroprocessed esters and fatty acids process. HEFA is currently the only commercially available SAF; however, it is dependent on limited feedstocks that cannot deliver our long-term SAF goals alone. HEFA SAF has an important part to play in the 2020s alongside the commercial development of advanced fuels that are less dependent on limited feedstocks. Today’s publication confirms that HEFA supply will not be limited under the mandate trajectory for the first two years, before falling to 71% of the total in 2030 and 33% in 2040. This will allow SAF demand to be met while incentivising the development of new SAF technologies. The UK is already producing HEFA SAF and we welcome the further development of this UK industry alongside more advanced SAF technologies. We recognise that there is a broader global HEFA market, and therefore there is no limit on the amount of HEFA that can be produced in the UK.
To drive innovation and diversification, a separate obligation on power-to-liquid fuels will be introduced from 2028 and will reach 3.5% of total jet fuel demand in 2040. This will accelerate the development of this high-tech fuel, which is less dependent on feedstocks and can generate greater emission reductions. The mandate includes buy-out mechanisms for both the main and power-to-liquid obligations to incentivise supply while protecting consumers where suppliers are unable to secure a supply of SAF. These will be set at £4.70 and £5.00 per litre of fuel, respectively. These provide a significant incentive for fuel suppliers to supply SAF into the market rather than pay the buy-out. They also set a maximum price for the scheme, and therefore deliver emission reductions at an acceptable cost.
While we recognise SAF may be more expensive than traditional jet fuel in the immediate term, we are ensuring that decarbonisation does not come at the expense of consumers. This plan is part of our approach to ensure that the rationing of flights through “demand management” is ruled out. The plan includes a review mechanism to help manage prices and minimise the impact on ticket fares for passengers. The Government also have the power to change key limits within the mandate to block higher price rises in the case of SAF shortages—keeping the impact on consumers to a minimum.
Providing sufficient SAF is available, any increases in air fares as a result of SAF will fall well within the range of usual fluctuations in prices we see every year and the Government have plans in place to prevent any major hikes. This is part of the Government’s plan to deliver on our ambitious net zero commitments while ensuring we take a pragmatic and proportionate approach which minimises unnecessary burdens on the public.
Revenue certainty mechanism
The Government committed in September 2023 to introduce an industry-funded revenue certainty mechanism for UK SAF plants and set out how it could be delivered by the end of 2026. Fulfilling our commitment in the Energy Act 2023, the launch of the consultation today demonstrates the Government’s ambition to develop a SAF industry in the UK. Such a mechanism will provide confidence in the sector and help to bring forward investment in UK SAF plants.
The consultation sets out four options that have been developed alongside stakeholders, through forums such as the Jet Zero Council. It provides a detailed assessment of these four options, looking at a range of factors from how quickly a mechanism could be delivered, to the scale of investment it is likely to bring forward. Views from stakeholders across the whole supply chain will be critical to the next phase of work and we welcome responses from all interested parties.
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Fishers' Medicals
Mark Harper Excerpts(1 month ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
My noble Friend, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport, Lord Davies of Gower, made the following ministerial statement on 27 March 2024.
The Secretary of State for Transport is today announcing an exemption for fishers from the requirement to hold medical certification for those individuals who currently work on fishing vessels of 10 metres and under in length. This new measure is a sensible and proportionate step that balances our obligation to protect the health of fishers with ensuring they can continue to earn a living in the industry in which some have worked for their entire adult lives. We are pleased to have worked with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on this as a further signal of our united commitment to support the UK’s vital fishing industry.
It is right to seek to ease the regulatory burden on fishers already working on smaller vessels given that they are the most likely to be self-employed or small businesses. An existing fisher is someone who was working on a UK-registered fishing vessel of 10 metres and under for four weeks or more during the period 30 November 2021 to 29 November 2023. The exemption will apply to fishing vessels registered in any part of the United Kingdom and will take immediate effect. The requirement for medical certification for fishers joining the industry in the future and for fishers on boats over 10 metres in length will continue to apply.
I will place copies of the Government’s response to the recent public consultation on this matter and the relevant Merchant Shipping Notice in the Library of the House. These are also available on www.gov.uk.
[HCWS396]
Network North Plans: Northern Powerhouse Rail
Mark Harper Excerpts(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
On 4 October 2023 the Government announced Network North—a new, £36 billion plan to improve our country’s transport. In addition to this, we confirmed £12 billion of investment to enable Northern Powerhouse Rail to proceed in line with previous plans to better connect Liverpool and Manchester. As promised in the Network North announcement, the Rail Minister and I have engaged extensively with local leaders to ensure that this plan was right for them and to understand whether they wished to suggest alternative ways to achieve the objectives with that funding.
We have heard from these stakeholders in favour of continuing to serve Warrington Bank Quay and Manchester airport and using broadly the current route towards Manchester as part of our Northern Powerhouse Rail plans. There is also interest from local leaders in exploring further options for station design at Manchester Piccadilly and for routings into Liverpool including station options. Government remain open to considering these issues, subject, as usual, to affordability within the funding envelope, standard business case approvals, and demonstrating value for taxpayers’ money. I look forward to continuing discussions on these points.
Recognising the consensus reached, I am today confirming that this will represent the basis for the next stage of development. As with any major scheme, delivery will be subject to securing consents and the approval of future business cases. Further, while the consensus reached will form the primary option that we work from, Government will continue to assess alternatives which meet the objectives of NPR, in line with standard requirements for business case approvals. Any scheme must be affordable and demonstrate value for money for the taxpayer, while seeking to support the rail capacity needs of central Manchester and deliver faster journey times and better connectivity across the Pennines.
On this basis, I will be continuing to promote the High Speed Rail (Crewe-Manchester) Bill as the fastest possible means of consenting the first part of that route into Manchester. Subject to the will of the House, the Government will seek to adapt the Bill to deliver Northern Powerhouse Rail only, removing scope south of the parish of Millington and Rostherne, which was included only for HS2. The adaptation of the Bill from HS2 to NPR and removal of HS2 scope from the Bill would prompt a further environmental assessment to be produced which would include revised construction impacts with a view to reducing impacts where possible.
In line with these plans, HS2 phase 2b safeguarding will be amended by summer 2024, to allow for any safeguarding needed for Northern Powerhouse Rail.
[HCWS380]
Oral Answers to Questions
Mark Harper Excerpts(2 months ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
In total, local transport authorities across the west midlands have been allocated around £5 billion to improve local transport services and infrastructure through the city region sustainable transport settlement, bus service improvement plan funding, and our recently announced local transport fund. One thing that would of course hugely help local transport in the west midlands is for voters in the combined authority to re-elect our fantastic Mayor, Andy Street.
Michael Fabricant
Hear, hear! The extension of the Birmingham to Lichfield line goes all the way to Burton and passes the National Memorial Arboretum. At the moment, the line is used only for freight, and I was told four years ago that the cost of upgrading it for passenger traffic would be only about £10 million, which is nothing in the great scheme of things. When will we see the line being completed so that people can go to the National Memorial Arboretum, which has half a million visitors a year, by rail instead of always having to use road?
Mr Harper
I know that my hon. Friend is a long-standing champion of that scheme and takes every opportunity to raise it with us. It is for local authorities to promote schemes for transport in their areas. I am pleased to tell him that, following our decision to cancel the second phase of High Speed 2, we have been able to make significant funds available, so Staffordshire County Council—his local authority—will get just under £260 million from the local transport fund. I urge him to talk to the council to see if it can fund the very modest bid that he has just set out for that scheme.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
The tram system in the west midlands is not going according to plan unfortunately, and the rail line between Moor Street, Snowhill and Marylebone—the Chiltern line, as it is known—is underperforming and has become highly unreliable. The air quality in our area, including in Warwick and Leamington, Snowhill and elsewhere, is very poor because the service is diesel-run. Other countries, such as India, have electrified their main networks. Will the Minister electrify the Chiltern route using the budget freed up from HS2?
Mr Harper
There are significant plans to electrify across the network. Another thing we can do to spend money more cost-effectively is consider where battery trains can be used in order not to electrify the very expensive parts of the network. I am also aware that Chiltern is looking at modernising its rolling stock, particularly to improve air quality. All the things that the hon. Gentleman raises are absolutely in progress. The Rail Minister will be able to say more about them in due course.
Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba)
Katherine Fletcher (South Ribble) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
Network North announced £19.8 billion of investment in the north of England, including £2.5 billion for the local transport fund, and is increasing the city region sustainable transport settlements to £12.4 billion from 2027. My hon. Friend’s local authority, Lancashire County Council, will receive nearly £500 million from the local transport fund, an additional £7 million for the bus service improvement plan, and an uplift of £244.5 million for road resurfacing.
Katherine Fletcher
To truly build our northern powerhouse and contribute to economic growth, direct connections between cities such as Liverpool and Preston are really important. Does the Secretary of State agree that taking out the buffers at Ormskirk, which were put in for purely administrative reasons in the 1960s and prevent direct trains, is a great idea and that such services would be further enabled by battery technology? Does he agree that that would enhance the case for stopping the nonsense at Midge Hall station, which was closed by Beeching in the ’60s, where passenger trains stop but passengers can only peer out at the platform because they cannot get on or off?
Mr Harper
I am sure that my hon. Friend is glad to have your endorsement for her question, Mr Speaker. The Government believe that local authorities are best placed to promote and take forward those schemes and, as I said, the local transport fund in the north will mean that £2.5 billion will be available for them. I encourage her to work with stakeholders such as Lancashire County Council. I had the pleasure of discussing a number of those local schemes when I recently met its leadership on a visit to Preston.
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
When I have been contacted by constituents excited by the news of the local transport fund, I have asked my local council officers when we can begin some of these projects, but they have been told by Department for Transport civil servants that the bulk of the money will not come until the end of the decade. When will we have some timelines for the delivery of that money? I do not want my constituents to have their expectations raised unreasonably.
Mr Harper
I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman’s local authority will get £168 million. We have been clear that that money will come over a seven-year period, and we will shortly publish guidance for the local authority on how it can go about that. I hope he will be pleased to know that we will make it clear to local councils that when they put their plans together, Members of Parliament should be involved in developing schemes so that he and other hon. Members can represent their constituents and their local transport priorities.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
If the Secretary of State wants to improve connectivity between our great northern cities, he might want to start by repairing the roads. The backlog of local road repairs has gone up by 16% this year alone to £16.3 billion. The Network North announcement is spread over 11 years, and its average annual contribution accounts for only a third of the £2.3 billion annual increase in the backlog. That is not all going to roads anyway, and it will go nowhere near addressing the damage done since 2016, when the Government slashed the road repair budget in half. When will the Secretary of State apologise to road users for the damage that his Government have caused and admit that they have failed to repair the potholes?
Mr Harper
What the hon. Gentleman says is interesting. We made a commitment to take the money from the cancellation of the second phase of High Speed 2 to make £8.3 billion available for local road maintenance—[Interruption.] Yes, it is over 11 years, but we made the first tranche of money available this financial year, and again next financial year. We will set out the allocations in due course. That money is available only because we made the decision to cancel the second phase of HS2. Labour cannot give a straight answer on that question, and it has not committed to spending that £8.3 billion at all. Drivers know that they will only get that investment with a Conservative Government.
Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
We are getting on with delivering the plan for drivers, with new statutory guidance requiring local support for low-traffic neighbourhoods and strengthened guidance supporting 20 mph limits where they make sense—not in blanket measures, as in Wales. If councils do not listen, they could see their future funding affected. We are consulting on removing the profit motive from council traffic enforcement while speeding up traffic lights across the country.
As I just said, that follows our record funding increase for improving our roads, with £8.3 billion of reallocated HS2 funding—something that Opposition Members have refused to support. There is nothing wrong with driving, and the plan for drivers, which was dismissed as nonsense by the shadow Secretary of State, shows that only the Government are on the side of drivers.
Chi Onwurah
I thank the Minister for buses, the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), for sharing with me the list of actions he managed to elicit from north-east bus operators following my debate on real-time bus information. However, no dates were given. This afternoon, our fantastic candidate for North East Mayor, Kim McGuinness, is launching her vision for transport in the north-east. Can the Minister confirm that those actions will be fulfilled to enable her to deliver on her commitment to real-time bus information as soon as possible?
Mr Harper
I am pleased to be able to tell the hon. Lady that within a week of her debate in Westminster Hall, my hon. Friend the Minister for buses made sure that those meetings took place, so the actions that are necessary are under way. I am sure that my hon. Friend will be able to update her on the specific timeline in due course.
Anna Firth (Southend West) (Con)
Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
If the Secretary of State is not spouting conspiracy theories, he is exuding incompetence. Ashford authorities warned Parliament that 14 hours of queues were a “reasonable worst case” scenario with the implementation of the EU entry/exit system this autumn. Why has he failed to adequately prepare for the queues at our ports and airports?
Mr Harper
I just do not recognise the hon. Gentleman’s characterisation. We are working very hard with colleagues across Government. I recently had a very good meeting with colleagues at the port of Dover, and we meet with other operators. There are very good plans in place, work is proceeding at pace, and I am confident that the EES will go very smoothly when introduced. The plans are in place and work is under way.
Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)
Mr Harper
I assure my right hon. Friend that National Highways works closely with local communities when delivering major projects, and it will continue to do so on the A12 widening scheme. My Department is committed to delivering the scheme, and granted consent for it on 12 January but, as she said, it is subject to an application for judicial review. I therefore cannot add anything further, but I will continue to work with her local residents. If at any time she wants to raise issues with the scheme with me, I will be delighted to meet her.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
I thank Ministers for facilitating discussions with the operators of the search and rescue helicopter service based in my constituency about the proposed response times. They have been fairly productive so far, and we will see what the outcome is. It is apparent already that the decisions are made solely on the basis of the number of calls and not the nature of the work undertaken. If the contract conforms to that, can we ensure that future contracts do not leave us exposed in that way?
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Is the Secretary of State aware that the UK used to be one of the safest countries in the world, along with Sweden, in terms of road accidents? He has campaigned with the Prime Minister to help the driver, but drivers are killing more vulnerable road users and passengers than for a very long time. Is it not time that this Government took road safety and the health and welfare of pedestrians and vulnerable road users more seriously?
Mr Harper
I will say two things. First, on Monday we announced a further £35 million for our safer roads fund. Secondly, the hon. Gentleman’s general point simply is not right. I think I am right in saying that out of 38 comparable countries, we are fifth best in the world. We have a very good road safety record and, actually, that position is maintained. We focus on road safety in everything we do, particularly for vulnerable road users. That is at the heart of all our policymaking.
Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)
Following many conversations and much engagement, the Secretary of State and the Ministers are well aware that companies in the railway rolling stock supply chain, such as Hitachi Newton Aycliffe, face significant short-term challenges. Next year we will celebrate the 200th anniversary of the first passenger railway in the world, which runs past a Hitachi factory. Can the Secretary of State update me on what he is doing to ensure that companies such as Hitachi have a long-term future in the UK to build the next generation of north-east trains?
Mr Harper
My hon. Friend has been a doughty campaigner for his constituents. He has already raised this issue with me on a number of occasions, and I am glad that he has raised it again.
I have had frequent meetings with Hitachi’s management in both the UK and Japan, and we are working very hard to deal with the situation. Hitachi’s HS2 order was confirmed on the original terms, and I am working with its representatives. The Rail Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman), recently published the details of the future rolling stock that is in the pipeline, and Hitachi is very competitively placed to win orders for much of that. I hope we will be able to reach a successful conclusion in the very near future.
Mr Speaker
Before we come to business questions, I have to inform the House that there is an error in the Future Business section of the Order Paper. The Hunting Trophies (Import Prohibition) Bill, introduced by the right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar), should appear as the first item of business tomorrow. It has been corrected in the online version, and will appear correctly on tomorrow’s Order Paper.
Motoring Improvement Measures
Mark Harper Excerpts(2 months ago)
Written StatementsRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
In October 2023, this Government announced “The plan for drivers”, setting out 30 measures that will improve the experience of driving by: smoother journeys; stopping unfair enforcement; easier parking; cracking down on inconsiderate driving; and helping the transition to zero-emission driving. We continue to implement these measures, taking action to ensure that drivers are treated fairly. Today we are publishing the latest series of guidance, consultation and research findings, which will help motorists and other road users to benefit from smoother journeys and reduced congestion, with local people getting a stronger voice on road schemes that affect them, thanks to:
New guidance on low-traffic neighbourhoods—following the recent LTN review, this sets out the requirements on local authorities, including particularly that, via engagement and consultations, an authority should be confident that a scheme is capable of carrying the support of a majority of the community before introducing it;
The 20 mph speed limit guidance—strengthened guidance restricting 20 mph limits to where they are sensible and appropriate, not on all roads indiscriminately, and with safety and local support at the heart of the decision. Other factors we would expect traffic authorities to consider include journey time, the needs of all road users, and impacts on the local economy;
A call for evidence on restricting a local authority’s ability to profit from enforcing traffic restrictions—seeking evidence on the way local authorities carry out enforcement and how any surpluses generated should be used;
Bus lane guidance—ensuring they operate only when it makes sense, for example when traffic is heavy enough to delay buses;
Consultation on allowing motorcycles to use bus lanes by default—so journeys are quicker for those who choose two wheels, a further initiative to reduce congestion and speed up journey times;
Lane rental schemes guidance—making it easier for councils to charge utility companies that slow drivers when conducting street works, and allowing the funds generated to be used to repair potholes;
The £50 million investment to upgrade traffic signals— £30 million to replace outdated equipment, and £20 million to reduce poor traffic light performance through innovative technology that responds to live traffic conditions, for 80 local highway authorities across England to improve journey times and reduce congestion caused by red lights;
Consultation on removing the right of uninsured drivers to claim compensation for property damage—a matter of fairness for law-abiding road users and something that we can now do having left the European Union; and
Noise camera research—showing local authorities the success of this technology to secure evidence to prosecute those who have illegally modified their vehicle’s exhaust.
These measures demonstrate our intent that drivers should be treated fairly, and that the wishes of local people should be taken into account when decisions on traffic management are considered by local authorities. Further action on these measures and others in “The plan for drivers” will be announced later this year.
[HCWS350]
National Policy Statement: National Networks
Mark Harper Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
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The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
National road and rail networks provide critical long-distance links between places, offering fast and reliable journey times and enabling connectivity between people and communities. This Government are committed to investing in our transport links—for example, through our historic £8.5 billion investment into road resurfacing, part of our £36 billion plan to reinvest money that would have been spent on HS2 into local transport connections. These investments in turn stimulate economic growth by facilitating deeper labour markets, giving better access to jobs and education, and businesses better access to skills. National networks also help with leisure journeys across the country, and support tourism. They connect vital infrastructure such as ports and airports to people and markets. They enable the movement of goods and freight into, out of, and across England, which is vital to UK prosperity, health, wellbeing, and security. Well-functioning networks allow people and goods to more freely and reduce costs to individuals and businesses.
There are a range of challenges that national networks face, which may lead to the need to develop national networks further through infrastructure interventions. These include the need to maintain network performance and meet user needs; supporting economic growth; resilience and adaptation to climate change; supporting the Government’s environment and net zero commitments; and maintaining and enhancing safety.
The current national networks national policy statement was designated by Ministers on 14 January 2015 following a parliamentary debate. The decision to review it under section 6 of the Planning Act 2008 was announced on 22 July 2021 and a statement was made to the House.
I am today laying before Parliament the revised national networks national policy statement for the relevant period ending 23 April, pursuant to section 9(8) of the Planning Act 2008. At the same time, I am also laying, pursuant to section 9(5) of the Planning Act 2008, the Government’s response to the Transport Select Committee report of 20 October 2023, and publishing the Government’s response to the public consultation on the draft national policy statement.
The national networks national policy statement sets out the need for development of nationally significant road, rail and strategic rail freight interchange projects. It provides an appropriate and effective framework for the Planning Inspectorate and the Secretary of State for Transport to examine and make decisions on development consent applications for road, rail and strategic rail freight interchanges in England. It makes it easier, simpler and cheaper to deliver the transport infrastructure we all use or will use in future.
A public consultation on the draft national policy statement was undertaken from 14 March 2023 to 6 June 2023, and the statement was also scrutinised by the Transport Select Committee, which considered written evidence as well as information from oral evidence sessions. I would like to thank the Chair and members of the Committee for their very helpful report and recommendations.
The Government have considered the consultation responses and the report of the Transport Select Committee in producing this revised version of the national policy statement. Copies of the national networks national policy statement and Government’s response to the Transport Select Committee will be laid in Parliament. I am also publishing these documents on the Department’s website, with the Government’s response to the public consultation on the draft national policy statement, the appraisal of sustainability and the habitats regulations assessment.
[HCWS314]
Automated Vehicles Bill [Lords]
Mark Harper ExcerptsTuesday 5th March 2024
(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Automated Vehicles Bill [HL] 2023-24 View all Automated Vehicles Bill [HL] 2023-24 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: HL Bill 1-R-I(a) Manuscript amendments for Report (Supplementary to the Marshalled List) - (6 Feb 2024)
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Mark Harper)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
As hon. Members know, most journeys take place on our roads. About 86% are made by cars, taxis and vans, but in the over 100 years since the invention of the car, despite our vehicles becoming better, safer and now cleaner, one aspect of driving has remained constant: the driver has always controlled the vehicle. In future, things may be different. For all or part of a driver’s journey, self-driving vehicles will free them from that responsibility, improving the lives of the millions of people who are unable to drive; boosting connectivity for rural communities across the country; transforming freight, be it long haul or last mile; and above all, making our roads safer.
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)
As the Secretary of State knows, insurance premiums have been going through the roof recently—the costs are astronomical. What impact does he expect automated vehicles to have on insurance premiums?
Mr Harper
If the hon. Gentleman will allow me to make a little progress, I will speak about how one centrepiece of the Bill and of our approach is the safety not just of the automated vehicle and its occupants but of other road users, particularly vulnerable road users. I will come on to that point; if the hon. Gentleman does not feel that I have covered it, he should feel free to intervene again.
We are on the cusp of a transport revolution, and Britain is very much at the wheel of that decision. British companies are developing the self-driving technology; British lawyers are developing the robust new legal frameworks that are being used; and British parliamentarians in this House and the other place can now agree regulation widely seen as among the most comprehensive in the world. The goal is clear: we want to make this country the natural home for the self-driving vehicle industry, and this Bill is the next stop on that journey.
Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con)
It will not surprise my right hon. Friend that I am speaking up for Milton Keynes on this subject. This is a huge global opportunity for Britain, worth £350 billion, and Milton Keynes is often the testbed of this technology. It is a beautiful, vibrant city that is going places—except perhaps in the eyes of the producers of last night’s “EastEnders”—so does he agree that when we get this technology, we will be able to roll it out because we have tested it in places such as Milton Keynes?
Mr Harper
I thank my hon. Friend for speaking powerfully for his constituency. He is right: those developing this technology will want to roll it out carefully and thoughtfully, and they will want to do that in specific places in the United Kingdom. He has just made a powerful bid for Milton Keynes to be at the centre of that.
Gearing Britain up for a self-driving future has been the work of years. In 2015, our world-leading code of practice enabled self-driving vehicle trials in the UK. We passed the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018, which codified insurance in this area for the first time and recognised the importance of that, as the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) said earlier. In that same year, we kicked off a Law Commissions review on a legal and safety framework for self-driving vehicles—
Mr Harper
Let me just set out what that review did, then I will take an intervention from the hon. Gentleman, who is an esteemed member of the Select Committee. It convened legal minds from across the country, launched three rounds of public consultation, sifted through hundreds of written responses and produced more than 70 recommendations, which now underpin this legislation.
Grahame Morris
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. These are really important points, as is the clarification sought by the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr on insurance liability. Can I ask the Secretary of State about the arrangements for the compensation of victims of any collisions that are caused by uninsured automated vehicles? He mentioned the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018, but that legislation does not mention this point. This Bill represents an opportunity to address that. Will the Secretary of State set out how we are going to do that, or are we missing an opportunity?
Mr Harper
The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that point. We have arrangements in place for vehicles with human drivers who are uninsured, and we are working with the Motor Insurers’ Bureau on the arrangements that will be in place. I would envisage analogous arrangements for self-driving vehicles that are uninsured, to make sure that if they are involved in accidents, any victims of those accidents are able to receive reimbursement in the same way as happens now for the victim of an uninsured driver. We already have arrangements, and I would envisage analogous arrangements. We are already having those conversations, but if the hon. Gentleman has more to say on that, either today or in Committee, I will be delighted to hear from him—
Grahame Morris
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that clarification, but this is a whole new world where we will be relying on AI, software and so on. How would an insurer prove that a vehicle was being driven autonomously rather than by a driver? Under the provisions of the Bill, would the insurer have access to the data so that they could analyse it and see whether an individual was in charge of a vehicle or whether it was being driven autonomously?
Mr Harper
I will come on to that in my speech, but I will answer the hon. Gentleman’s specific questions. From the point of view of any person needing to make a claim, the insurer will be liable whether the vehicle is in self-driving mode or the user is in charge. What happens subsequently, regarding whether the manufacturer, the software provider or whoever has to pony up the money, is a matter for the insurer to argue about with them. That will not impact the victim, who will be paid by the insurer.
On the hon. Gentleman’s important point about data, we discussed this last week when I met a roundtable of those involved in the industry, including road safety campaigners and those in the insurance industry. The Bill will ensure that the data can be shared, and the insurance industry is keen for that to happen so that it can properly price the risk. I will say more about this when I talk about the safety framework, but there is a real opportunity here because most road traffic collisions are caused at least in part by human error. The track record of self-driving vehicles shows that this is an opportunity to improve road safety, which is important not just for those who use vehicles but for other road users. There is a balance to strike here. We need to capture that benefit but also ensure that we do not leave anyone exposed without protection, as the hon. Gentleman rightly set out.
Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)
On the point the Secretary of State has just been discussing, presumably the details of all journeys undertaken by automated vehicles will be recorded. Where will that data be stored, and who will have access to it? Could someone access that information for non-driving reasons—for example, someone involved in divorce proceedings or an employer in an employment tribunal?
Mr Harper
My right hon. Friend should note that data for these purposes will be protected in the usual way. Data has to be used for the purposes for which it was gathered. There are legal processes for who has access to it, as well as those we will set out specifically for driving purposes. The other things he mentioned will be governed by the usual laws that govern the use of data. I do not want to dwell on those specifics, but they are already covered by existing data protection legislation for the devices that people have in vehicles to monitor their progress or for mobile phones.
I would like to start with safety. Anyone stepping into a self-driving vehicle will reasonably ask: “Can this car consistently drive safety? Will the law protect me if there is an accident? Is the manufacturer regulated and can they be held to account?” Under this legislation, the answer to each of those questions will be yes. The Bill has been built on a bedrock of safety, protecting not just the driver inside the car but road users outside the vehicle.
As I mentioned in answer to the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame Morris), I chaired a roundtable with road safety groups last week and explained how we are holding self-driving vehicles to a higher safety standard than the average human driver, guided by principles we will soon consult on; how these vehicles must meet rigorous technical requirements before rolling off production lines and being authorised for our roads; and how we will tackle misleading marketing, with new offences for companies that seek to blur the line between true self-driving and driver assistance.
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
That gets to the nub of the point. Because these vehicles are going to be automated, they will be governed by an algorithm written by a human being somewhere remote from where an accident might occur. How do we determine whether the primary purpose of that algorithm is to protect the person in the car or someone outside the car, such as a pedestrian or a child crossing the road? How does the algorithm make a choice in those circumstances?
Mr Harper
We will consult on the statement of safety principles, which will set out the governing principles of the legislation. On the specifics, this will be about making sure that the manufacturers—those who create the software and those who put the cars together—have rigorous processes for testing and decision-making. Those systems will have to be authorised to be used in our cars, and it will be important to look at their data and their track records. As I say, in real-world situations where these vehicles are being used—for example, in California—the evidence suggests that they have a very good safety record that is much better than that of human drivers. There is a big opportunity here to have a safer road environment, not just for the users of the vehicles but for other road users.
I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has had the opportunity to ride in a self-driving vehicle, but the data they collect of their surroundings is interesting. My personal observation is that the space they give when passing a cyclist, for example, is a lot more generous than that I have seen many human drivers give. Of course, those parameters are going to be set and regulated, and people will have to be assured that the vehicles are safe before they are on the road. Ultimately, the manufacturer will be legally responsible if they turn out not to be.
Clive Efford
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way a second time. I agree entirely that, overall, roads will be safer with automated vehicles, but there will still be accidents. My question was specifically about where there is an accident and there is a choice to be made about protecting the person inside the car and injuring someone outside the car. How do we determine what takes priority in those circumstances?
Mr Harper
We will consult on the safety principles, but with some of this stuff we have to look at the way the vehicles make decisions. We cannot possibly legislate for every single set of circumstances. In the same way, when there is a collision involving a vehicle with a human driver, the driver will make the best decision they can in the specific circumstances. Sometimes those situations lead to legal conflict and then people have to make a judgment. We cannot legislate for every single one of those circumstances in advance. What we can do is make sure there are robust systems that make good decisions based on the best data, and then look at the track record. We will also set up a regulatory system whereby any accident involving an automated vehicle will be properly investigated.
The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. It is essential with this legislation that we earn the public’s trust and win their confidence. That is one of the reasons why we have been so clear, and why we accepted the amendments in the other place, about putting safety at the forefront of the Bill. If people are not persuaded of that, this technology will not make much progress.
Several hon. Members rose—
Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)
The Secretary of State is taking a safety-first approach to this legislation, and that seems to be the will of the House. I have used a driverless vehicle operated by Waymo, a driverless Uber-style service in the United States. He will know that those vehicles have more cameras—more eyes—looking in more directions more of the time than it would be possible to achieve even with 100 drivers sitting in a single vehicle. My concern is whether, in his effort to put safety first, he is compromising the potential for economic growth. In America, most of the force for change with automated vehicles is being driven by the leading global technology companies. What discussions has he had with those companies in preparation for the Bill? How comfortable are they with the Government’s approach?
Mr Harper
I have discussed the legislation with a number of those companies—both UK companies and those in the US—and I am pleased to assure my hon. Friend and the House that they too recognise that safety is incredibly important. They all understand that they have to be able to operate within a legal framework set by legislators who are ultimately accountable to the public, and that they have to take the public with them. As ever with these things, whatever the track record of existing vehicles and drivers, because this is new technology, people will be sceptical about it, and anything that goes wrong will have a brighter light shone on it. The industry is very aware of that and, I think, very happy to work with us on those issues.
Several hon. Members rose—
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I will be honest, Mr Deputy Speaker: I am not very technically minded. I like the idea of a manual car with five or six gears and reverse. In the rural community that I live in, I am very happy with that. I have a bit of hesitation about automated vehicles. Thinking about young drivers—this is really important, because the Secretary of State mentioned blurred lines—we have to make sure that everyone who learns to drive has full capacity to drive any vehicle, and does not think they can get into an automated vehicle and just sit there and do nothing. It is really important that everyone is subject to the same rules. Can he confirm for anyone who thinks that in future they will be able just to sit in the back of the car that that is not the case, and that they will have to learn to drive in the way that we all have over the years?
Mr Harper
I will come to that in a second—it will become clear in the next section of my speech—but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the Bill is about giving people choices. If people want, as many will, to carry on driving their existing vehicles in the traditional way, that is absolutely fine and no one is going to try to stop them. To be very clear, the hon. Gentleman can carry on driving for as long as he wants to and is safe to, and no one is going to try to stop him. Certainly, I am not going to try—I wouldn’t dare.
On the legal concerns—this will address the point about the driving test, too—the Bill redefines our legal relationship with road transport. As soon as someone turns on a self-driving feature, legal responsibility for how the car drives will transfer to an authorised self-driving entity, or ASDE—not a very catchy acronym, admittedly, but that is what they are called. That could be a manufacturer or a software developer but, crucially, it will not be the human driver, who will assume a new status. As a user in charge, they will still need to ensure that the car is roadworthy, and they will need to reassume control if necessary. That answers the hon. Gentleman’s question: someone will still need to be in possession of a full driving licence and able to reassume control of the vehicle if required, but they will be protected by law from any offences while the car is driving itself.
Some journeys, either in private cars or on self-driving transport, will be fully automated, and a human will never need to take control; they will be, in essence, a passenger. My hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller) mentioned the example of Waymo cars in the US. Those are operated as taxis, with no driver present, and the human is never expected to take control; it is classed as a “no user in charge” journey. In those circumstances, someone would not need a driving licence, because they would never be expected to drive the car, in the same way we are not expected to drive a taxi or private hire vehicle. Those legal concepts will have a seismic impact.
Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)
This is the future, and it is both quite exciting and quite scary. We have to get our heads around it and make sure that we get this right. On what the Secretary of State has just been describing, is it basically the difference between someone taking a taxi and driving their own car? If there is an accident in a taxi, the taxi company is responsible, not the passenger.
Mr Harper
If someone is using a vehicle for a “no user in charge” journey for which they are, in effect, the passenger and there is an accident, it will be totally the responsibility, in all circumstances, of the person operating the vehicle. Where someone who is driving the car for part of the time switches on the self-driving features and something happens while those features are activated, that will be not their responsibility but that of the manufacturer or the software developer. If someone is in control of the vehicle and the self-driving features are not activated, they retain responsibility.
One of the things that we will have to do is educate people about the difference, and we are being clear to manufacturers that there is a big difference between a self-driving feature and driver assistance. Under driver assistance, the driver is still fully legally responsible for the vehicle, but with some technological help; when the self-driving features are activated, they no longer have legal responsibility.
Wera Hobhouse
Is there not potential for a legal conflict between a driver who says, “I was in self-driving mode,” and a company that says, “No, it was switched off”? Does the Secretary of State see that it might be very difficult to establish what happened in such circumstances?
Mr Harper
Potentially, but that is exactly why the earlier question about data is very important. These vehicles generate a huge amount of data and one part of the authorisation process will be making sure that that data is properly managed and there is proper access to it by the investigators of any potential accident and the insurance industry to establish exactly what has happened in such circumstances.
Iain Stewart
I want to build on the question from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) about the situation where a driver is in control of the car at some point and at other points the car is autonomous. That will presumably result in drivers becoming less experienced, as they will not accumulate as much knowledge and experience of driving. When the automated features switch off and the driver needs to take control, those will be potentially immediate and challenging circumstances. Is my right hon. Friend assured that the driving test and refresher courses will give drivers sufficient capacity to take over in those circumstances?
Mr Harper
My hon. Friend raises a good point. I am very comfortable with the driving test; it continues to be updated to make sure drivers are familiar with features such as satnavs, and the new technology will be added. The wider question about how often drivers drive and how experienced they are of course arises now. Someone can take a driving test and not drive very much but occasionally hire a vehicle, and we hold them to the same standard as those who drive day in and day out; they are still responsible. There might in these circumstances be a question about whether it would be sensible for people to take refresher courses and do further training, and we will want to monitor that and determine whether we should legislate for it or issue guidance. It is an interesting point for us to keep an eye on.
As well as the legal issues, making driving more convenient in this way also makes it potentially much more accessible, by for example giving those who cannot drive at the moment, such as the 340,000 people registered blind or partially sighted, new options to travel independently, opening doors to economic and social opportunities that have thus far remained closed. Interestingly, in the United States, where this technology has been rolled out earliest, it is those groups who have been most vocal in arguing for the technology, because it changes their lives for the better and opens up their opportunities.
The third area is learning and enforcement. This technology will get stronger, smarter and safer over time. The safety data will be collected by the vehicle, monitored by its operator and scrutinised by a Government regulator, which means we can take enforcement action when things go wrong or through sanctions and suspensions if a company withholds data. The Bill also includes measures to investigate incidents independently and ensure that lessons are learned. I have spoken about the context behind the Bill and addressed some of the key components and will turn now to some of the benefits self-driving vehicles will bring.
Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con)
This is an exciting Bill about an exciting future. I have listened carefully to what my right hon. Friend has said about who will ultimately be responsible if there is an accident. My understanding is it will always be the manufacturer and will never be the person who owns the car. In my constituency, as in many others, large numbers of people like modifying their cars and I am sure when autonomous vehicles are introduced people will want to modify those as well. They might change them in ways that ultimately slightly limit or diminish some of the safety features put in when the car was built, so who will be ultimately responsible in such circumstances? People may make modifications without knowing the implications, potentially, for diminishing the safety of the car. Will the manufacturer still be responsible when the car is modified, or will it be the owner?
Mr Harper
My hon. Friend raises a very important point that we must make sure is covered. Clearly, if people make modifications that alter the functioning of the self-driving features of the vehicle, we would either have to say that that was not acceptable or they would have to accept that the vehicle was no longer self-driving. There would need to be rules. The vehicle will go through an authorisation process to go on the road, and there will be things that people will be allowed to change and things that they will not. I suspect that manufacturers will be very clear that they will no longer be responsible for a self-driving vehicle if someone has modified it. As long as that is clear, that is fine, but people will have to accept that, as cars become more technological with more technology built into them, the days of being able to tinker around with them under the bonnet and alter things will be long past if we want that technological stuff to kick in.
Alexander Stafford
My question was not just about modification that may change the safety of the car but about any modification. If someone who owns an iPhone changes the screen, it is no longer under manufacturer warranty even though that does not affect how it works. If someone has modified their car and it does not affect a safety feature but there is then an accident, will the manufacturer be able to say that the car has been modified and that, even though the safety features are unchanged, it is therefore no longer its responsibility? Will the liability pass to the owner if the manufacturer decides it has nothing to do with it?
Mr Harper
These cars will have to be authorised by the regulator to go on the road, but my hon. Friend makes the good point that, as part of that process, what the user of the vehicle can and cannot do needs to be clear. I suspect there will be very limited things that they could do without affecting the operation of the vehicle, but it is good to put on the record that in the information provided by both the manufacturer and the regulator we must be clear about what the user of the vehicle can and cannot do to ensure it can be driven safely.
Despite Britain having some of the safest roads in the world, the levels of serious injury and road deaths remain too high. That could soon change. If we can eliminate driver error, which is involved in 88% of road collisions, we could get to the point where self- driving vehicles are a game changer for road safety: they do not drink and drive, they do not get stressed or distracted, they do not speed, get tired, bend the rules of the road or push their luck.
Self-driving vehicles will save lives and we cannot ignore the economic impact either. According to industry estimates, 40% of new cars will by 2035 have some self-driving capability. This is a growing global market, Britain’s share of which could be worth £42 billion and generate 38,000 skilled jobs in areas ranging from cyber-security to AI, and thanks to Government support, our self-driving vehicle industry is not only thriving but recognised the world over.
Grahame Morris
I thank the Secretary of State for his reassurances about safety. I do not think it is all one-sided, because another aspect of safety is cyber-safety, which we do not need to worry about with a traditional car. Automated vehicles are extremely vulnerable to cyber-attacks from hackers and potentially from terrorists, especially as the software and technology age. What are the Government going to do? Are they going to commit to establishing the necessary regulations to ensure cyber-security for automated vehicles is robust and that protections continue over the lifetime of the vehicle?
Mr Harper
The simple answer is, yes, we are going to do that. The hon. Gentleman is right to raise cyber-security as an issue, and it is of course an issue today, because many cars today have electronic features from keyless entry to navigation systems. Existing cars are vulnerable to being hacked. Cyber-security is important and we and the industry are working with the National Cyber Security Centre. I agree that cyber-security will be very important, but it already is important.
Clive Efford
I agree with what the Secretary of State said about tinkering and that nullifying any insurance, but we have also just experienced the Horizon scandal, where the manufacturers themselves had access to the technology. What security do drivers have from the designers of the software governing these cars covering their own backs?
Mr Harper
One of the things we will have in place is a duty of candour. We will also set up a regulatory process with investigations of every self-driving vehicle involved in an incident. Importantly, manufacturers will be legally obliged to have that duty of candour to disclose the information, so that these issues can be got to the bottom of. The hon. Member raises a specific case that I will not comment on, and there will no doubt be learnings from that case, but the regulatory approach we are setting up will deal with the issue he just raised.
Mr Harper
Let me make a bit of progress; I want to try to get to a conclusion, because others wish to speak, but I will try to get back to my right hon. Friend in a sec.
In 2019, Google’s Waymo made the UK its first European engineering hub for self-driving technologies. Bosch and ZF, among others, are investing in the UK, drawn by our highly skilled workforce. CAM Testbed UK, a unique cluster of five facilities between London and the west midlands, has received £200 million of Government and industry funding, and we have put £66 million into scaling up self-driving mobility ideas, from buses in Scotland to HGVs in Sunderland, with a further £150 million announced as part of our advanced manufacturing plan. We do not want to lose momentum, and we want to make sure that we push the industry to realise the full benefits of this technology. I hope that the Bill brings certainty to investors, clarity to manufacturers, confidence to the public and demonstrates Britain’s strongest commitment yet to a self-driving future. Before I conclude, I will take an intervention from my right hon. Friend.
Sir Greg Knight
The Secretary of State has been generous in giving way. Just to clarify the point, there could be circumstances where a vehicle is in fully auto mode, but the owner bears some responsibility. For example, if an automated vehicle is on full auto and is involved in an accident, but it is then discovered that all the tyres are without tread, surely in those circumstances the owner would bear some blame.
Mr Harper
I set out at the beginning that in circumstances where a user is in charge—where they are not purely a passenger with a company providing a taxi or private hire service—and the vehicle is in self-driving mode, the manufacturer or software provider is responsible for the conduct of the vehicle, but the user in charge is responsible for such things as the physical condition of the vehicle and the tyres, and they retain that responsibility. The balance of which of those things caused the accident will be determined in exactly the same way as currently.
In conclusion, as I think the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) set out, self-driving vehicles will provoke excitement from some and nerves from others, but for most of us, it is a combination of the two. Clearly it is an opportunity, but there are some risks. I know that first-hand, not only having visited California-based Waymo and ridden in one of its self-driving vehicles, but having done a journey from my departmental office to this House in a self-driving vehicle designed by the British company Wayve. It was interesting, as it went expertly through busy streets and responded quickly to things. It was a rainy day and a lot of people were darting in and out of the traffic—probably not sensibly—but the car responded safely. I realised the enormous potential of this technology, not just as a growing economic sector, but for a future where transport is safer, more convenient and more accessible. This Bill is a crucial step towards that future, and I take great pleasure in commending it to the House.