Food Poverty: Scotland

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 7th May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Hugh Gaffney]

Yes, I know people who worry about borrowing, and try to borrow from their family and friends rather than having to pay back this loan, which I believe also accrues some interest and puts them back even further.

Professor Philip Alston visited the UK back in November, and spoke to volunteers and food bank users as part of his research into poverty in the UK. His report for the United Nations concluded that food banks were a symptom—a symptom of this Government’s complete denial of the impact of austerity on the poorest in our society. I hope that the Government will snap out of their denial and start showing willingness to act. I stress that that goes for the Scottish Government as well.

I pay tribute to Labour-led North Lanarkshire Council’s fantastic Club 365 programme, which is free to attend for primary school pupils who receive free school meals, and ensures that they do not go hungry at the weekends or during the school holidays. North Lanarkshire Council helps to feed our children 365 days a year. I remember attending a meeting that looked at the positive impact of Club 365 on the lives of children in my constituency of Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill, as well as across North Lanarkshire. A Conservative councillor was moved to tears at that meeting; he never realised that the problem was so big.

Club 365 highlights that food poverty can be tackled when the political will exists. I hope that both the UK and Scottish Governments will now show that they have that political will. Let us not make “Oliver” a reality for more of our children: “Please Sir, can I have some more?” I say no more—no more children and their families going hungry in Scotland. If the UK Government can remove the smokescreen of Brexit, and the Scottish Government can remove the distraction of indyref 2, 3, 4 and 5, maybe we can end food poverty.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

I call the Minister—and I welcome you to the Dispatch Box.

Social Security

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Sir Mike Penning]

I just thought that it would be important to the House to put this on the record: I am sure that the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) never thought that he would agree with me.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

He has not said that he has yet.

[Sir Mike Penning]

Well, he has actually.

This is why this House is so important. We can come together and say what is right, what is wrong and what can be done. If we come together to put a little bit of pressure on the Minister—not so much at the Dispatch Box today because she will be dragged over the coals—the Secretary of State and the Treasury, we can simply say, “This must be easier for you as a Government, and rather than bringing this forward, we can unite on this.”

Employment and Support Allowance Underpayments

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 18th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Newton]

The hon. Gentleman is now bringing up cases of people who applied for ESA more recently—I think that is what he is talking about—which is different from the people who were migrated across from incapacity benefit to ESA. Clearly, it is really important that we get the decision right first time for everyone. That is what we absolutely want to do: make sure that people applying for ESA are treated with respect and dignity, and get the right result.

I always look at the claimant experience, because behind every statistic is a real live person. The independent data shows that, when asked how they experienced the work capability assessment, over 90% of ESA claimants are satisfied. Obviously, some people, about 9% of people who apply for ESA, take their cases to appeal because they are not satisfied with the results. About 4% of those cases are upheld. Often, that is a case of more medical information being brought forward. I do not want there to be any appeals; I want to make sure we make the decisions right first time. That is why we put in place independent reviews and put in a huge amount of work to improve the work capability assessment and improve the benefit. [Interruption.] From a sedentary position, people are shouting out, “How long is the waiting time for appeals?” [Interruption.] I think the custom in the House is that Members rise to their feet to ask a question. [Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Lots of Members want to get in. We need short and accurate answers.

[Sarah Newton]

I want to come on to answer the question about the waiting time for appeals. That is the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice. I am working very carefully with the MOJ to reduce the amount of time people have to wait for appeals. It is coming down. In the last set of statistics I saw, it had come down by 9%. Over 200 judges have been recruited to the tribunal service, so we can see improvements—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. Can I just say that it is not fair to keep going? I am sure there will be a written question to which there will definitely be an answer.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Will the Minister confirm that the money will not come from existing budgets? Will she also make representations to the Chancellor to ensure the extra spending will not impact on additional spending urgently needed in other areas, such as universal credit?

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[Sarah Newton]

The work capability assessment was at the heart of the hon. Lady’s question, and it has been the subject of consultations and huge amounts of stakeholder engagement. We are absolutely determined to continuously improve the work capability assessment. Healthcare professionals who undertake the assessments are all medically qualified and they are all trained. We have a huge amount of stakeholder engagement working with us constantly to improve the work capability assessment and in fact, the whole claimant journey through ESA.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

I call Melanie Onn.

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)]

Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker; that was unexpected—I thought I was in trouble.

I have to say, I am a little disappointed with the Minister. This is such a sensitive and incredibly important issue; a little more contrition at the Dispatch Box really would not have gone amiss. I am pleased, however, about the Department’s acceptance that where there are errors on its part, back-payments will be made. In that spirit—of accepting the principle of back-payments when errors are made—may I ask whether this will require primary legislation? I asked about kinship carers and back-payments when erroneous decisions had been made by the Department, and I was told that primary legislation would be required to make those back-payments. Is the same true for these ESA back-payments?

Universal Credit and Welfare Changes

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 21st June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Maclean (Redditch) (Con)]

May I assure the Secretary of State that I, too, have been to my local jobcentre and spoken to the staff there? I have heard that this is the best system to help people for 30 years—that comes from the horse’s mouth in Redditch.

I used to work in the software industry, and the point about this system is that it is agile. A system on this scale cannot be built in the way that the Opposition suggest; that is not how technology operates. The benefit of this system is that it can learn on an individual basis. The staff in the jobcentre said that there was a different experience for every single claimant, and that is how the system responds. The idea that we should stop it flies in the face of any kind of technology learning—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady, but I want to get everybody in. Questions must be brief.

[Ms McVey]

It was lovely listening to my hon. Friend—my learned friend, who knows so much about technology—because those words needed to be heard. As I said, this is at the leading edge of technology. Great Britain is leading the way. Countries that are coming to see us range from Sweden to the United States, Italy, New Zealand, Spain, Canada, Cyprus, France and Denmark. They all want to know how it works to take it back home to their countries.

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[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

It is exceptional to take a point of order now—normally it would come after statements—but as it relates to this, I will.

[Debbie Abrahams]

I am grateful to you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

The Secretary of State, in response to my question, incorrectly said that the Government had not been found to have acted unlawfully in relation to universal credit as it applies to severely disabled people. I have looked up that judgment. I was at court 28 when the judgment was handed down this time last week, and it is absolutely the case that, for severely disabled people transitioning on to universal credit, the Government were found to have acted unlawfully and in a discriminatory way. I would appreciate it if the record were corrected.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Would the Secretary of State like to respond?

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Ms Esther McVey)]

I would. If the hon. Lady read and were, supposedly, at the judgment—[Interruption.] I am giving her a get-out clause. On many of the points, the Government won. They were questioned on how moving area had impacted on people with the severe disability premium. It was not about the fundamental change that I have made to help half a million disabled people by giving transitional protection to people with the severe disability premium, which is different.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. There were two judgments. The one that I just referenced, about severely disabled people transitioning on to universal credit, was upheld, and the Secretary of State needs to recognise that.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I will leave it at that, because it has certainly been put on the record and heard. I want to move on to the ministerial statement.

Universal Credit

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Catherine West]

This change to benefits shows how untrusted the Government are on benefits. If they are trying to sell something good, they cannot, because they are so untrusted on benefits. If the system is so fantastic, why do 80% of people who come to see MPs get their benefits? Why should not the system just work? [Hon. Members: “What?”] Some 80% of appeals for universal credit—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. May I help a little bit? Would hon. Members make short interventions? I want to ensure that all Members get in. The sooner we get this speech over, the sooner we can get to the Back Benchers.

[Ms McVey]

It would be helpful if hon. Members did not just make up statistics and facts as they went along, as we just heard from the hon. Lady. Hon. Members should listen to us regarding the support that we are now providing to claimants. As I said, it is a topsy-turvy world. There was a ding-dong when the Opposition were calling for the changes. Now that we are introducing the changes, we are back to another ding-dong and they do not want the changes—but never mind.

I turn to the regulations concerning national insurance contributions and childcare. These regulations align the tax and national insurance treatment of employer-supported childcare, where parents opt into the new tax-free childcare scheme. They remove the national insurance disregard to new entrants to the scheme, once the relevant day has been set. They are vital to ensure that the tax system operates fairly and consistently and that the Government can target their childcare support effectively.

For many parents, being able to afford good-quality childcare is essential for them to work and support their families. That is why we are replacing the childcare vouchers with tax-free childcare, which is a fairer and better-targeted system. Tax-free childcare is now open to all eligible parents, who can get up to £2,000 per child per year to help towards their childcare costs. More families will be able to access support through tax-free childcare because only about half of employed working parents can access vouchers, and self-employed parents were excluded from vouchers. Therefore, 1.5 million families are now eligible for tax-free childcare compared with about 600,000 families currently benefiting from vouchers.

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[Catherine West]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that most housing providers have deep concerns about universal credit in general, and in particular about direct payments to tenants who have problems with such a relationship?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

I just warn Members that we will have to have a five-minute limit. I do not want to start off with a four-minute limit, but we are in danger of going that way.

[Neil Gray]

I agree with the hon. Lady, which is why we are looking to introduce some flexibilities in Scotland, where we have the minimal powers to do so.

The Government must open their eyes to the crisis that they have created for workers, people who are sick or disabled, landlords and tenants, and employers, and urgently halt and fix universal credit before any more of our constituents have to suffer. In Scotland, the Scottish Government are using some of their minimal new powers in this area to give people in Scotland more choice over the universal credit payments and enable them to manage their household budgets better. We of course want to do more, and we wish that the whole of universal credit had been devolved to allow us to do so.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. There is now a five-minute limit on speeches.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The time limit is now four minutes.

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[Angela Rayner]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is there any recourse for me to challenge the fact that an hon. Member is suggesting that I have misled this House in this debate?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

First of all, nobody will mislead this House because we are all hon. Members. I am sure that when we come to the wind-ups, everything will be put in its correct order.

[Chris Philp]

The hon. Lady and her party have suggested that everybody in receipt of universal credit should receive free school meals. That has never been the policy of the Government, but apparently it is the policy of the Labour party. That would entail about 50% of schoolchildren receiving free school meals. She was asked, in a direct question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), how much this policy, which goes beyond that in the Labour manifesto, would cost and how she would pay for it, but she declined to answer. If she is advocating this policy which goes far beyond current Government policy—as she clearly is—she ought to explain how much it would cost and how she would pay for it, because promising things for free without explaining how they would be paid for is a deeply irresponsible thing to do. I will support the Government in this evening’s Divisions.

Disabled People and Economic Growth

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

I call Dr Lisa Cameron to speak for up to 15 minutes.

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[Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) for securing this Backbench Business debate. I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch and Upminster (Julia Lopez), who is not just an hon. Friend but an actual friend.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

We are all friends.

[Bim Afolami]

We are all friends. My hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch and Upminster made a powerful speech and stole at least half the things I was going to say.

People often ask, “Why did you go into politics?” I am sure we are all asked that, and we all have many reasons for going into politics, not just one. The most important reason I am in politics is to enable everybody to use their God-given talents, whatever they are, in the best way they can to contribute for themselves, for their family, for society and for the country. That is why I am in politics. People with disabilities are fully included in that, which is why this debate and this subject are of critical importance.

There will be those who say that many disability benefits should be more generous, and in some ways they probably should be. I know that the Minister, who truly and strongly believes in this brief, and Treasury Ministers will always do whatever they can to make sure appropriate resources are in place to help those who need them. But let us not kid ourselves. The subject of this debate is economic growth. What is important for people’s well-being and their lives is the opportunity to make the most of themselves in a professional, work, career capacity. That is crucial. Although benefits are important, we also need to do everything we can to get everybody who has a disability into appropriate work, where possible. That is what I regard as the heart of social mobility.

We often talk about social mobility in this House, in many different ways; we talk about it in debates about education, higher education, the Treasury and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. We talk about it all over the place. The way we usually talk about it is by discussing an individual who has come from a poor background but overcome the odds to achieve something fantastic and get to the top of a profession. We should celebrate that—it is what Britain is about—but social mobility is more fundamental: it is about ensuring that our society uses the skills and innate talents of those with and those without disabilities to their fullest. That is true social mobility. It allows everybody the ability to use their God-given talents and make the most of their lives.

Where are we now from a policy perspective—from a governmental perspective? The Conservative party manifesto in 2017, which I read carefully—that is a good thing for a new candidate to do—stated:

“We will get 1 million more people with disabilities into employment in the next ten years.”

By my calculations, we need to raise the number of people with disabilities in employment to about 4.5 million over the next 10 years to achieve that target. That would mean a growth of almost 30% on the current level. I think we would all agree in this House that that is a big task. The Government and my party are very focused on that—indeed, I suspect we will find that Members from across the House agree on it.

In November 2017, the Government set out a 10-year plan to improve the situation and to deliver on that manifesto pledge. I am sure the Minister will elucidate further on the plan and where the Government are with it. Its main thrust appeared to be linking up the welfare system, the workplace and healthcare. As has been alluded to in the debate, it was particularly about bringing in new technologies, especially assistive ones, to help to turbocharge the growth we have been gradually seeing, so that people with disabilities can enter the workplace.

A 5% rise in employment among people with disabilities would bring an increase in GDP of £23 billion, with tax revenues up by about £5 billion to £6 billion. That is a considerable amount. Research by Scope, the disabled charity, has found that 58% of disabled people have felt at risk of losing their job because of their impairment or condition. It is clear to me, and probably to most, if not all, Members of this House, that we need to work much more closely and intensively with employers to drive change.

Several decades ago, many employers did not like to employ women. What happened over time was that this House, working with employers and through legislation, helped to drive change. A few decades ago, we did not find people who looked like me or like the Opposition Front Bencher, the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), in this place or in the other place, and several employers did not like to employ people of ethnic minorities. What happened was that this House, through legislation and by working closely with employers, helped to drive change. Now the time has come for those with disabilities to get much better access to employment opportunities. The Government need to work with employers, along with the legislation that is already in place, to help to drive change.

Disability Confident is a good scheme, which is welcomed generally across the business community, in government and in civil society, but we can go further. The Government should bear in mind the huge gains to be made—not only the economic ones, but the gains in terms of the life chances and economic potential of this huge group of people.

The Government need to work further on two main things to help to drive this change and this turbocharge. The first is to financially incentivise, perhaps through the tax system or in another way, employers to take on more people with disabilities, especially in industries where today they may not typically be found. For that to happen appropriately—businesses tell me this when I have the discussion with them—we need to be able to have a much better understanding of the different capabilities of different people with disabilities, so that we can make sure that we match the right employment opportunities with the right people. That is critical. If we do that properly, in combination with proper incentives for business, we will be able to see a huge increase in this area.

Once more people with disabilities not only get into the workplace, but progress within it—through promotion and by getting to the top of their businesses—they will show what they can do. They will show what they can contribute. That will send a powerful message, not only to them, to society and to this House, but to the country as a whole.

Financial Guidance and Claims Bill [Lords]

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 22nd January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Before I call the next speaker, I want to suggest an informal time limit of between 10 and 12 minutes.

Universal Credit Project Assessment Reviews

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 5th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Neil Gray]

I am really pressed for time now; I do apologise. [Interruption.] I have taken interventions. Madam Deputy Speaker has indicated that I was to keep within 10 minutes.

When the likes of the Child Poverty Action Group, the Poverty Alliance and others predict that further roll-out of universal credit in its current form, coupled with the benefits freeze, will force even more children into poverty in the coming years, the UK Government need to wake up to the evidence that their policy choices make them an agent in rising poverty, as opposed to the Scottish Government, who are working hard to protect low-income families.

In conclusion, the reports may well be as glowing about universal credit as Ministers have been, but the Government’s desperate obstinacy and obfuscation over a period of two years would suggest otherwise. Given the intense pressure that has been put on Ministers in recent months by the Scottish Government, MPs from across the House and expert charities, I imagine that had the reports been positive, they would have found their way into the public domain to support the Government’s position. It is normally the cold light of day shining on harsh truths that forces people from their entrenched positions, so the Government should make these reports public. Let us see the DWP’s assessment of universal credit, and let us all come together to find a way to fix universal credit and help those who need help the most.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I advise Members that we will start off with an eight-minute limit and hope that we can make sure that everybody gets the same amount of time.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am reducing the speaking limit to seven minutes. I hope that I shall not need to drop it any further.

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[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)]

I have wanted to make a comment for some time, so I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way.

On the supposed blocks in the previous system, I have been contacted by constituents who were previously nursing students in receipt of a nursing bursary and, under the old system, tax credits. Because that bursary was not considered an income, they were still able to get tax credits, so they could continue to pay their rent, bills and so on. Now, under universal credit, someone is doing a teaching degree and is in receipt of student finance, which counts as an income, so they are not eligible for any other benefits and they are already three months behind on their rent. Is that a demonstration of somebody being able to move on?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

The hon. Lady has made a speech; we will have short interventions.

[Ms Ghani]

That is where the work coach should be able to help. The hon. Lady should be challenging the work coaches in that community. People are moving on: they are able to get a loan to get an education and change the life choices available to them.

With its one simple payment and gradual introduction, universal credit is flexible enough to respond to any technical issues. Previously, the existence of six different benefits was an overbearing and bureaucratic mess. The system was expensive to administer; it was confusing to understand; and, most of all, it was demoralising to boot. The results so far show that universal credit is working: people claiming universal credit are 13% more likely to be in work than people claiming jobseeker’s allowance, and they are earning more money and are more likely to take on a job.

Such drastic reform will always come with complications, and over the past four years, imperfections have been uncovered and brought to light. I am pleased that the Government have listened and acted to improve universal credit, by ensuring that it achieves its original goals. The £1.5 billion package to address the delivery concerns will be welcomed across the country in places where universal credit has yet to be rolled out. The removal of the seven-day waiting period will mean that applicants will be entitled to receive universal credit from the first day of application. Those who need it can also now access up to a month’s worth of universal credit within five days via an interest-free advance. I cannot be the only Member of Parliament who has struggled to deal with constituents who have been made to feel insecure and afraid to access the welfare to which they are entitled, because they are made to feel that, somehow, it will work against them. The free support phone line is also welcome. These important changes mean that we are not letting down those who need our support the most.

Universal credit is committed to helping people into work, and, once in work, to help them progress and increase their earnings, providing security and opportunities for them and their families. It is important that the Government are fully committed to the gradual roll-out, giving the ever reducing numbers of unemployed people a greater chance of the security that only a job can provide. We must not revert to the old failing system where 1.5 million people were trapped in out-of-work benefits for a decade.

If people are not convinced by my arguments, let me quote the chief executive of St Mungo’s:

“We have been calling for a new strategy to tackle homelessness. I welcome the opportunity to work with the taskforce to end the national scandal of rough sleeping altogether. We are also pleased to see a number of changes to Universal Credit that St Mungo’s had been calling for, particularly the removal of the seven day waiting period and the extension of the repayment period for advances to 12 months.”

I will end by quoting someone from Citizen’s Advice, because we all reach out to them when we are dealing with difficult constituency work. The chief executive said:

“The £1.5 billion package for Universal Credit announced in the Budget last week will directly help millions of the most vulnerable people.”

Universal Credit Roll-out

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 16th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Just to help the situation, I will drop the speaking limit to five minutes because of the number of interventions. If people continue to intervene, which I do not want to stop, they must understand that they will go to the bottom of the list in order to ensure that those who have not spoken get their chance. That includes you, Helen Goodman.

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[Anna Soubry]

I was a member of the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs when we discussed the situation of the Glasgow jobcentres. Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that Glasgow had somewhere in the region of 16 jobcentres and that the DWP’s very excellent proposal—in fact, it was not radical enough, in my view—was to reduce that number to eight? We compared the number of jobcentres in comparable cities in other parts of the country that had comparable employment rates, and they often had two or three jobcentres, as opposed to eight.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order! Too long; far too long.

[Chris Stephens]

The evidence that was used by the Government to justify closing those jobcentres was based on information that did not exist. They were using Google Maps when they should have been using the First Bus app that would have told them that closing jobcentres means a complicated, multi-bus, hour-long journey from Easterhouse to Shettleston.

The Government were faced with all the evidence provided by Members in this place through debate and questions; they were faced with all the evidence provided to the Work and Pensions Committee by a wide range of people and organisations dealing with the impact of universal credit; and they were faced with a report from that Committee clearly outlining where the implementation is going seriously wrong. But even when faced with all that information, the Government continue to argue a line that, in my city, we would call ignorant. When that word is used in Glasgow it does not mean someone who does not know all the facts, someone who does not know any better or someone who needs advice on how to act. No, ignorant—as in “pure dead ignorant”—means someone who knows all the facts and knows what should be done, but chooses to do whatever they want despite it being wrongheaded and damaging to others.

I fully expect, and we have already heard, the tired old Government line about the policy of universal credit as having been welcomed. It is even on the top line of the Work and Pensions Committee report that universal credit is a good idea in principle. But—this cannot be emphasised enough and the report clearly confirms this—it is the design and operation in practice that is deeply and utterly flawed.

Reports of a rethink or U-turn on the waiting time for universal credit were trailed in the media yesterday, but frankly do not seem to present as a clear commitment to reduce to the four weeks maximum. Oddly enough, there was some link between this story and next week’s Budget. I can only assume what many of us have suspected, which is that universal credit is less to do with supporting people into employment and more to do with cutting the benefits bill, and that any changes are a Treasury call.

The Public and Commercial Services Union has clearly outlined how universal credit actually works, as opposed to the fantasy-island wishful thinking of the so-called reforms to the benefits system. The pressure on staff members is intense, with one in 10 who work directly with universal credit claims leaving—double what is considered normal. The DWP employs 30,000 fewer staff than in 2010. If the Government are meant to be in the job-creation business, that certainly does not appear to be in their own backyard—the civil service.

Jobcentre closures and lack of internet access, or digital exclusion, all put a severe strain on claimants and staff. I welcome the dropping of telephone call charges, not just because they are the result of campaigning against the telephone tax, but because they are an indication that someone somewhere recognises that something has to give.

The current situation is unsustainable. The roll-out has to be paused if there is to be any hope of making this work. As universal credit follows on from the implementation of personal independence payments, which inflicted real hardship and humiliation on many disabled people, it is hard not to join the dots and to work out that the Government view benefits as a budget problem to be solved by actively making claiming more difficult.

The changes to benefits are part of a cuts agenda. The budget for universal credit is nearly £3 billion a year less than the budget for the system it replaces. No wonder it has in-built delays to payments: every day that every pound that is rightly owed to claimants is held in Treasury accounts, the poorest and most vulnerable in society are subsidising Government expenditure, while offshore tax avoiders pay their accountants but not their taxes.

The Work and Pensions Committee report is the first in a series and is focused on the terrible impact the six-week wait has on claimants. It also identifies problems with advance payments, which start a claimant off in debt—if they are not already in debt. There are also clear situations where housing associations do not know that their tenants are on universal credit, and I hope the Government will focus on that.

I am calling for the Government to cut the waiting time for universal credit and to pause the roll-out. Glasgow will be the last major city in the UK to be subject to the full service roll-out, but how many thousands of families, children and vulnerable people will have to suffer and starve before we get to that point? If a 10th of the resource that is put into chasing benefit fraud were put into chasing tax avoiders, how much more resource would we have so that we could truly support working people and enable people to work, rather than cutting off their lifelines?

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[Melanie Onn]

The notice will have left all those who received it stressed and worried for their futures.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The hon. Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) can ask to intervene, but she cannot remain on her feet.

[Melanie Onn]

I was really disappointed that the Prime Minister did not condemn that letter in the Chamber yesterday, and I invite the Minister to do that today. Rather than acknowledging the impact this policy is clearly having, she waxed and waned about the fact that she had not seen a copy of the letter. Well, I have the letter here, and I am very happy to hand it over to the Minister once I have finished my speech, so that he has a chance to read it for himself, if he has not done so already. The letter appears to be a blatant attempt to circumvent the laws passed in the Housing Act 1988 and the Deregulation Act 2015, which require two months’ notice to be given to tenants before an eviction can be carried out.

[Vicky Ford]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way. A number of us on the Conservative Benches would like to join her in condemning that letter, which we believe is illegal, and we would like to have a copy. Has she actually met the housing association to tell them that it is not legal?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The letter is becoming quite contentious. I am sure that it can be passed to the Minister.

[Melanie Onn]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I need to make it absolutely clear that this is about the private rental sector; it is not about a housing association. Conservative Members may well feel that this is illegal and I know that one of them condemned the intervention that was made earlier about the fact that they believed this to be illegal. I received some completely unsolicited legal advice—lawyers in housing contacted me—to the effect that this is not illegal. It is completely legitimate; nothing prohibits it. One of the big issues would be that even if it were illegal, many of these people would not have the capabilities to seek legal redress. That is a real issue.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I will now drop the time limit to four minutes to ensure that everybody gets in. It is the interventions that are killing it.

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[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

If Members do not want people to speak, please say so now and I can start to take them off the list. That is what we are doing to each other. I do not mind, but when Members do not get in, please realise what is going on here.

[Alex Burghart]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

We are now left with a system in which there is a six-week wait for the initial payment. It is worth reminding the House why that exists. The very model of universal credit is about having a month-long assessment period in which the system understands how much you are earning and adjusts your payments accordingly. There must then be a calculation time which works out exactly how much people are owed. At the moment, that is a week. However, when we met Neil Couling, the DWP head of universal credit, he said that they were working to bring that down. I believe it can and should be brought down as a matter of urgency.

At the other end, of course, we still have a week’s waiting time. I do not disagree with the Government very often, but my colleagues from my previous roles know that I do not believe that those waiting days should exist. There have always been some waiting days in the system—three days—but the extension to four, which was not made by this Secretary of State or under this Chancellor of the Exchequer, should not have been introduced. That is why my Committee has called on the Government to remove the seven waiting days. We should not pause the roll-out, but we should make that adjustment.

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[Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)]

I begin by congratulating my fellow Scottish Conservative, my hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid), on his excellent maiden speech, and also by expressing my appreciation to my hon. Friend the Minister, whose attentiveness and attention to detail are unsurpassed.

I am an avid supporter of universal credit and am fully vested in its success in my constituency, but I am not going to rehearse the arguments in favour either of welfare in general or UC specifically, as I have already spoken twice on this matter in recent weeks. Instead I shall refer briefly to certain aspect of the Select Committee report which require the reflection of Ministers.

The first matter is referred to in paragraph 3, which stresses the importance of producing “a robust statistical analysis” of the performance and impact of UC full service. I endorse that. I asked a written question last month about the average times claimants wait to receive their first payments from completion of the claim submission to UC being paid into their bank account, and I was told:

“We do not hold this information”.

That was surprising to me, as I subscribe to the principle that when performance is measured, performance improves, and when performance is measured and reported back, the rate of improvement accelerates. I therefore welcome what the Select Committee observed about the ease and speed with which advances can be granted, and I confirm that this is true in Stirling, as it is in London Bridge.

I am also concerned about the level of repayment, which should take into account matters such as a claimant’s existing benefits and other debt repayments. Perhaps there should be a higher minimum than currently, below which repayments will not be extracted. I had a constituency case of a person who after repayments was left with only £61 for a month. Might some additional discretion be given to DWP staff on repayments, especially where overpayments have occurred due to acknowledged DWP errors?

The Select Committee report recommends that the Government should aim to reduce the standard waiting time for the first UC payment to one month, and I concur with that. I hope the Minister will reflect on it. I accept that the recommendation comes with a cost and there are budgetary considerations and this is public money which cannot be spent twice, but this is also a matter of compassion, and the experience of Stirling CAB is consistent with the Resolution Foundation research finding that more than half of low and middle-income families have no savings and two thirds have less than a month’s money.

I continue to have concerns about the application process, such as online access, especially in rural areas, and the difficulties for applicants who are homeless, have alcohol and drug addiction issues, or who have no online facilities to make a claim, or have anxiety, depression or bipolar disorders. Is there a paper-based application form that could be used in extraordinary circumstances? This would help to address the needs of the small minority of people who have genuine anxiety about the digital system.

I would further ask the Minister to consider allowing DWP staff to offer claimants the option of having their rent paid directly to their landlord, as a proactive ask. Will he also consider widening the circle of approved and trusted advisers who have direct contact with DWP staff to discuss individual case needs, which can then be carefully and closely managed in liaison? In closing, I should like to express the regard I have for the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field) and the work of his Select Committee, and ask the Minister to consider the conclusion of its report very carefully—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order.

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[Ruth George (High Peak) (Lab)]

I welcome the constructive comments from Members on both sides of the House. I have set up an all-party group to work with all Members, and I would welcome to the group any Member who has concerns, so that we can look seriously at all the problems that have beset universal credit. The six-week wait is just the start. It is just the start of a horrendous time for anyone who is claiming universal credit.

The local housing allowance for a family three-bedroom house in my constituency is £150 a week. There is a seven-day wait with no payment whatsoever, so a household can be £150 down to start with. The allowance is paid in arrears, but rent is paid in advance, as my hon. Friends have said, so a claimant can be £750 in arrears before they even start receiving universal credit. That is where all the reports of arrears are coming from and it is absolutely wrong. This is not about people on low pay not being able to manage; the system just does not take account of the realities of their lives.

I mentioned the six-week wait to the Minister on Monday and pointed out that it was six weeks until Christmas Day. Those who are applying for universal credit this week will have to wait until after Christmas to receive their payment. They will have just two weeks’ pay to get by on over those six weeks, and services will not be open over Christmas. I appreciate that the Government want to wait for the Budget before taking action, but they must appreciate that the people who are waiting for money over Christmas—families who will be able to afford no sort of Christmas—need the Government to act now to ensure that they can receive the payments they need to feed their children and give them a decent Christmas.

When I asked the Minister about that on Monday, he suggested that people could work more hours in the run-up to Christmas. Indeed, many employers are seeking additional people and overtime. Having worked for USDAW—the shop workers’ union—for many years, I can testify that many people rely on overtime in the run-up to Christmas. Under tax credits, that is perfectly reasonable, and people receive their pay at the end of the day because there is an income disregard, whereby if someone’s income increases by £50 a week on average, they do not lose any tax credits. There is nothing of that sort under universal credit. For every extra pound that someone earns in overtime, they will lose at least 63p from their next universal credit payment. People who do overtime in good faith, and as advised by the Minister, will find that their next month’s universal credit payment has fallen by 63% or even 75% of the overtime that they have earned. That does not help them to cover the costs of Christmas or to stay out of debt.

Like hon. Members on both sides of the House, I am suggesting that the taper rate should be reduced and that an earnings disregard, like that under tax credits, should be introduced. The Government need to pay attention to the realities of people’s lives under a monthly benefit system that hits them hard as soon as they earn any extra. There is an earnings disincentive that the Government must consider. They need to ensure that passported benefits come to everyone—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order.

Supported Housing

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 25th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. After the Prime Minister made an announcement at Prime Minister’s questions, ahead of our Opposition day debate today, that the Government will drop their plans for a crude cap and cuts to supported housing, have you or Mr Speaker had any indication that Ministers, when they make the full announcement next week, which the Minister has just mentioned, will come and make the announcement to the House with an oral statement? In the light of the unanimous support for our motion tonight and the widespread concern about the Government’s plans over the past two years on both sides of the House and across the sector, it is clearly really important that Members can question Ministers on the announcement in full that they make.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

The one thing we can be sure of is that I have been given no notice that anybody is coming forward and I do not think Mr Speaker will have been given notice at this stage. What I would say is that the right hon. Gentleman has certainly put on record his concerns. His views and opinions have been recorded. As he would expect, it is not for the Chair to look at the decision on the vote. That is a matter for the House and certainly not the Chair.