Draft Child Support (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2018
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 8 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Child Support (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2018.
The draft regulations were laid before both Houses on 12 July 2018. The regulations will enable the Department to make amendments to child maintenance legislation to deliver the new child maintenance compliance and arrears strategy.
A comprehensively reformed child maintenance scheme was launched in 2012. The main aim of the scheme is to encourage and support parents to take responsibility for paying for their children’s upbringing. We want parents to work together following separation and, where possible, to make a family-based arrangement for maintenance, avoiding state intervention altogether. Where parents do not meet their responsibilities, the statutory scheme is there to enforce payments.
I am pleased to say that, following careful staged implementation, the new service is working well and avoiding the problems that beset the previous statutory child maintenance schemes. As we have implemented the reformed scheme, we have listened to the issues that hon. Members and external stakeholders have raised. The draft regulations address a number of those issues by closing known loopholes, updating the way in which child maintenance is calculated and introducing a new sanction to target the small minority of parents who persistently evade their responsibilities.
For many years, the old system under the Child Support Agency did not provide the right support to parents and was expensive to run. The majority of cases with ongoing maintenance have been closed in the CSA schemes. I want to provide clarity to thousands of families who have a case in the CSA with arrears. In many of those cases, the children are now adults and the outstanding debts are small. In some cases, when asked, parents have moved on with their lives and are not interested in pursuing the debt. The draft regulations will enable us finally to address all arrears that built up under the CSA, meaning that we can close the cases and end years of uncertainty for the families involved.
A small number of non-resident parents are able to lower their child maintenance liabilities, or avoid them altogether, by drawing an undeclared income from assets. Whether that is via loans against the value of bullion or the acquisition of virtual currency, the cultivation of a cash-poor but asset-rich lifestyle is a rare but growing method of evading child maintenance responsibilities. The draft regulations introduce new powers to address that problem.
Where a partner believes that the ex-partner possesses the relevant assets, the Child Maintenance Service will investigate, escalating to the financial investigation unit if appropriate. If possession of a relevant asset is confirmed, and the value exceeds £31,250, a notional income will be calculated at 8% of the asset’s total value. That would be added to the total income used to calculate liability. We expect the use of the power to be appropriate only in a very small number of cases. We recognise, too, that such assets can be acquired for legitimate reasons. That is why we have protected assets in certain circumstances, including where the asset is used for business purposes or is the primary home of the parent or a child.
Some parents intentionally manage their financial affairs around joint or unlimited-partnership accounts, as those are inaccessible to our existing powers. The draft regulations seek to extend our ability to use regular and lump-sum deduction orders in relation to joint and unlimited-partnership bank accounts, and to use lump-sum deduction orders in relation to sole-trader accounts. Through that new power, we may be able to collect an additional £350,000 a year for children. I want to make it clear that we want to strike a balance between recovering money for parents who are refusing to pay child maintenance and protecting the rights of other joint account holders. To achieve that, a number of safeguards have been put in place to prevent the other joint account holder’s funds being deducted.
Deductions will only be made from joint or unlimited-partnership accounts where there are insufficient funds held in the parent’s solely held accounts. Before action is taken, the previous six months of account statements will be checked to establish ownership of funds. In a small number of cases where, despite investigation, it is not possible to establish how much of the funds in the account belong to the parent—for example, because no evidence is furnished as to ownership—a pro rata approach will be adopted. This will assume that the parent’s share of the funds is equal to that of the other account holders.
All account holders will be notified before a deduction order is made in respect of a joint account and will be given the opportunity to make representations in relation to the funds targeted. The standard representation period will be 14 days for regular deduction orders, and 28 days for lump sum deduction orders. All account holders will have appeal rights. Further safeguards are in place to ensure businesses have enough cash flow to continue to trade. For example, a deduction would not be taken if it would reduce the account balance below £2,000. We have provided a requirement for the Department to review these provisions every five years.
I plan to commence an existing power to enable the Child Maintenance Service to disqualify a paying parent with child maintenance arrears from holding a UK passport. The regulations make further provisions in respect of this power. The measure will only be used where a parent has consistently failed to meet their financial responsibility for their children and all our other enforcement powers have failed to regain compliance. It will operate in a similar way to existing sanctions of commitment to prison and disqualifications from holding or obtaining a driving licence. Given the serious nature of the power, it will be for the court to decide whether to disqualify a parent from holding or obtaining a UK passport. The court has the power to suspend the disqualification order on such conditions as the court thinks appropriate. Although the power will be used only in a small volume of cases, I expect it will be an effective deterrent to secure payments and maintenance as early in the case as possible.
As soon as the CSA came into existence in 1993, debt began to build up quickly. Operational improvements from 2008 onwards halted the lack of growth, but reducing the historic balance has been extremely challenging. Successive Governments have not sought to hide from it, and since 1996 have published information on the client funds accounts on the amount of debt believed to be uncollectable. The latest Child Support Agency client funds accounts for 2015-16 make it clear that £3.1 billion of CSA debt is deemed uncollectable.
Over the years, a number of strategies have been tried to collect the debt, including using external debt collection agencies and offering parents the option of making a part-payment, but none has been successful in getting money to children. The regulations include changes that help to deliver certainty to parents by attempting a final collection of their debt, where they want it and where such action is likely to be cost-effective for the taxpayer.
For a case to be in scope for the regulations, the debt must have accumulated on either the 1993 or 2003 CSA cases; it must be an arrears-only case, where no maintenance is due for a child currently; and it will not have received a payment within the past three months. Where a case started on or before 1 November 2008 and has over £1,000 arrears, was over £500 if the case started after 1 November 2008, or the arrears were accrued under the CSA but have transferred to the Child Maintenance Service system and are more than £500, we will write to the parent the money is owed to and ask if they would like us to make a last attempt to collect the debt. Parents will be given 60 days to tell us that they want us to attempt to collect their debt. If representations are not received within the 60-day period, the debt may be written off.
The regulations will enable the CSA debt to be written off without seeking representations where it falls below the prescribed thresholds. That is because it would not be cost-effective to attempt to collect the debt below these levels. There are different thresholds according to the age of the debt, as the older the debt, the harder it is to collect. Where such debt is written off, both parents will be notified. Where the debt is below the value of £65, the regulations will enable the debt to be written off without notice to either parent. That is in line with the current threshold used in my Department for debts owed to the Government.
Finally, if a case of debt subject to sequestration—Scottish insolvency—these regulations will enable it to be written off when the sequestration expires. This will apply to all child maintenance schemes if the debts become legally uncollectable due to the way in which sequestration operates.
In conclusion, the launch of the Child Maintenance Service has gone well, but we now need to build on that success. We propose to do that by first widening our enforcement powers, closing down known loopholes and sending a clear signal that we will pursue those who fail to meet their obligations to their children. Secondly, we will not back away from the hard choices. We will commit to tackling the arrears that represent the legacy of the CSA and will do so in the way that best balances the interests of parents and the public purse. I commend the regulations to the Committee.
Justin Tomlinson
I pay tribute to the MPs across all parties who have engaged with me on this subject; since I became a Minister it has been probably the most popular topic. Colleagues have even sat through some of the presentations with me as we have developed the regulations. Their experience, either through individual casework or with people with a lot of knowledge in this area, have helped to shape these regulations. All the contributions recognised that the absolute priority must be the children. There is much that we agree on. It is disappointing that the Opposition do not support the regulations because they send a crystal-clear message to the tiny minority of parents who choose to avoid their responsibilities.
I will try to cover the points raised. The historical debt is about £3.1 billion. It would cost us somewhere in the region of £1.5 billion to pursue all that debt, some of which is many decades old. Estimates are that we would get back between £0.1 billion and £0.6 billion, because of the nature of that historical debt. The absolute key is that we learn the lessons. That is why the CMS was brought in, and it is making a difference. In the first five years of the CMS, about £113 million was owed; in the first five years of the CSA, £1.5 billion was owed. That is a considerable difference. In March 2015, arrears were about 17%; they were 13.3% in 2016, 12.5% in 2017 and 12.1% in March 2018. I do not want to tempt fate, but the last available statistics from June 2018 show it was down to 11.8%.
There is still much more to do, but these regulations are part of the ongoing journey. This will not be the last time that we introduce regulations that are shaped not just by cross-party MPs but by the stakeholder organisations, including Gingerbread, which the shadow Minister rightly credited for the work it does in this area. I have met Gingerbread; we listened the experience it offered. The issue of three months of no payments refers only to the CSA historical debt, not the ongoing CMS or, in effect, live case, when that would not apply.
On enforcement and, in particular, why we do not take lifestyle into account, that would be a blunt tool. This may also cover the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester, because in some cases people might have a flash car but on investigation it is found to be fuelled by debt or is not their car. Rightly, therefore, we have brought in the financial investigation unit, so that we can investigate if receiving parents notify their caseworker if they feel that there is evidence of lifestyle inconsistency. The highly trained specialist team from the unit will now be able to look at that and, if they find grounds for changes, they will take enforcement action.
On the specific point about passports, I must stress that use of that power is a last resort, once we have exhausted all other enforcement powers. Maximum enforcement lasts for two years, and it must be granted by the court—not by us—so there are numerous safety checks in place. We used to rely on the removal of driving licences. Not unreasonably, however, the paying parent often argued, “If you take my driving licence away, I won’t be able to earn and you won’t get another penny from me.” We think that this might be a better way. We hope that it is a sufficient deterrent and is used only in a very small number of cases.
On assets outside the UK, yes, absolutely, they may be considered. On notional income, that would be applied at 8%, not on the primary home, because we work on the assumption that the child and the paying parent live there, but if they have another home and, for whatever reason, the paying parent decides not to charge rent on it. The example given was of an asset from parents given as a goodwill gesture. We would then attribute what we believe to be fair, which is the notional income of 8% derived from that asset. That would be added to the paying parent’s total income for the year, which is used for the calculation of the child maintenance.
The point about targets has been raised with me before, and I understand why—as Governments, we set targets for pretty much everything we do. To be crystal clear, we publish all data, so that all organisations may look at the data and draw their own conclusions. We do not want to set an artificial target, however, because we do not want to create perverse incentives—if we say, “X per cent. has to be enforced”, we might seek to go after easy targets, rather than some of the tricky cases, in particular those of the most vulnerable people for whom it would make a real difference. The key that drives us is to get those arrears down, to act as quickly as possible and to ensure that the child, through the receiving parent, gets the full amount of money to which that child is entitled.
On charges, too, we have had representations, and we undertook a review. What is key, however, is that in an ideal world we would never be needed—all parents would be able to find an amicable way to resolve their differences and to ensure that a fair amount is paid, because that benefits the children. We would all agree on that. The modest charges—bear in mind that my Twitter feed sometimes tells me that the fees are a hugely profitable exercise—cover about 2% or 3% of our total costs. They are a nudge exercise to encourage people to find an amicable way to agree. That can happen—time heals—and we want that in place.
One of the changes that we have made is to go the other way. For example, given those points made about whether Direct Pay always works, we now proactively contact those on Direct Pay through text messages to say, “If you are having problems, contact us, and we can look to change that to collect and pay.” We are ensuring that people, the less confident in particular, are not left without receiving the money that they should be. We can act far quicker than in the past.
On domestic abuse, I am very proud that I have ensured that Women’s Aid is helping to develop training for all our staff, so that they can identify those who might be victims of domestic abuse, which comes in all forms. The administration fee would be waived, and we may take people’s word for it—this is not something that has to be proved strenuously. Through the training, where appropriate, we will then signpost and even—if this is felt to be the right thing to do—contact the police, to alert them to what is happening.
On sole traders, we have trained staff who may use their discretion. I absolutely understand the point about cash flow not necessarily being profit, so they will look into a business not being made unsustainable, which would remove the ability to pay income in future.
We have introduced the measures to continue to build on the success of the reformed child maintenance scheme. Their introduction will send a clear message to parents who go to great lengths to avoid financial responsibilities to their children. Now that the reforms are embedded, it is right to take action to address the historical arrears, allowing us to draw a final line under the problems of previous child support systems and to focus on controlling arrears under the Child Maintenance Service so that they never reach the levels seen in the CSA schemes. The draft regulations will give us the opportunity to offer parents a final chance at collection, where cost-effective to do so and we can be reasonably certain that action would be successful. I commend this statutory instrument to the Committee.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the draft Child Support (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2018.
Poverty in Liverpool
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 9 months ago)
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Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) on her excellent speech; she set out everything that the city faces, from cuts to local authorities, the hostile environment on benefits and the personal experiences that we come across in our surgeries every week, as well as the evidence in report after report. The Government seem determined to turn a blind eye to those reports and doubt their veracity, and I find it shocking when the Minister shakes his head, when we see such experiences every day.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
I was not shaking my head.
Dan Carden
You were during my hon. Friend’s speech. The experiences I am talking about are things we see every day in Liverpool.
I was elected for the first time last year, to represent a Liverpool constituency, and it is an incredible privilege. When I am asked what the biggest issue facing my constituency is, I say poverty—and it is, because that is the critical issue affecting people, in their long-term health, educational outcomes, job opportunities, living standards and mental health. Most of all, it affects their sense of self-worth. That is the most hurtful part of seeing the decline in our communities. As my hon. Friends have done, it is right to put on the record how proud Scousers are, and how strong our communities are. That is shown by the work that our community centres and food banks do day in, day out. Liverpool is an astonishing city that is doing well in many respects.
This debate set me thinking about what poverty is, and what we are talking about today. If we look back in history, we see different types of poverty. I have seen individuals fall into poverty—people can lose a job, be moved on, and then perhaps another job appears, and during that time, trade unions and charities may help out. Families also fall into poverty. My family was affected by unemployment. My dad was unemployed for seven years, and sometimes it felt as if we did not have much money when we were growing up. Nevertheless, we had a family unit, we had a community and we had support. We still had good schools and public services, the local authority did its bit, and there were youth facilities. Today we are talking about whole communities being pushed into poverty while the safety net is withdrawn from the bottom.
Poverty is man-made. It does not exist in a vacuum; it is the result of decisions made by the powerful. No one person is responsible for their own poverty. Austerity is and has been a political choice, not an economic necessity. Since 2010 this Government have handed out an eye-watering £110 billion in tax giveaways for the biggest corporations and the super-rich, paid for by devastating cuts to wages, living standards and essential public services for the rest. They have starved our schools of funding—something they deny—taken police off our streets, including 1,000 from Merseyside Police, and left our NHS and social care in crisis.
Not only have the cuts themselves been political, but so too has their distribution. New research from the University of Cambridge shows that post-industrial cities in the north of England have been hit by the deepest cuts to local government spending and that, on average, Labour councils have been hit four times harder than Tory councils. Few places have been hit harder than Liverpool, with the staggering 64% cut to local authority funding that we have heard about. Conservative Members tell us not to fear because the Prime Minister announced at the Tory party conference that austerity is over. Leaving aside the fact that we have heard such empty rhetoric three times before, I assure the Minister that the reality on the streets of Walton and across Liverpool tells a different story as austerity rolls on, piling misery on our communities.
We have already heard many of the statistics, so I will not repeat them all. Average wages in Liverpool are £11,000 below the national average, and 40% of children in my constituency are growing up in poverty. Liverpool is now classed as having the second-highest levels of destitution of any city in the UK. On top of that, this Government now heap universal credit—a policy so fundamentally flawed that it has become an exemplar of institutional incompetence. [Interruption.] I think I heard the Minister tut, but this is being played out on our streets, and we see the evidence in report after report. Perhaps he will respond to some of the points raised today, including the Trussell Trust’s report, which states that demand for food banks has soared by 52% in areas of universal credit roll-out, compared with 13% in other areas.
Housing associations, letting agents and private landlords have told me that tenants are falling into rent arrears in areas such as Bootle and elsewhere where the roll-out has gone ahead, and that evictions will increase. The calamitous roll-out in my constituency comes right before Christmas, and my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) was right to call for it to be delayed, at least until after the Christmas month, when we know it will cause increased hardship. The figures are stark, but they do not do justice to the human misery that I already deal with in my casework under the existing benefits system.
Under this Conservative Government, we are being hurtled backwards to bygone days, reminiscent of when it was a crime to be poor. The Government’s welfare reforms have seen hundreds of millions of pounds sucked out of Liverpool’s local economy. The benefit freeze—in reality it is not a “freeze” but a real-terms cut for millions of low-income families—has meant a loss of £45 million for households in Liverpool. We have heard about the cumulative effect of such cuts.
Given the pressures, some people have to give up employment to care for elderly relatives. A scaffolder came to my constituency office and explained that he has had to give up good, well-paid employment because the care is not there for his elderly mother. We have heard how the local authority already has to act as a sticking plaster, which shows that the current benefits system is failing. I want to congratulate the Mayor and the local authority on their work.
Next week the Chancellor will reveal the Government’s Budget, and we will no doubt have a debate about economic growth and the fudging of figures to mask deep systemic problems in our economy. Not only have we seen the worst decade for wages in centuries, but the UK is the only advanced economy in which wages have continued to fall, even when the economy is growing. That is because of a decades-long trend of the share of gains from growth going increasingly towards profit, not wages. More and more economists tell us the blindingly obvious: having money from economic growth flow to working people and the poor rather than to the rich would stimulate better rates of economic growth and lower unemployment. As income inequality increases, the potential for economic growth is constrained. Since the 1970s, while productivity and the economy kept growing, the average worker’s pay package did not. The Financial Times has stated that since 2007,
“the UK was the only big advanced economy in which wages contracted while the economy expanded. In most other countries, including France and Germany, both the economy and wages have grown…The UK sits on its own as a rich economy that experienced a strong economic performance while the real wages of its workers dropped.”
What does economic growth matter to my constituents if it does not even reach them?
We have heard reports that the Chancellor is considering bringing back regional pay in the Budget in order to deny pay rises to our constituents on a national pay scale. Can the Minister tell us anything about that, and can I urge him to feed back that it would be an absolute disaster for the regions of the country if the Chancellor were to go anywhere near the idea?
The Government’s cuts have not tackled the deficit; they have shifted it on to local authorities and public services, plunging them into crisis, while starving our economy of the patient, long-term investment it needs to thrive. The problems are so stark that the solutions must be radical. The people of Liverpool do not need piecemeal change; they need something much bigger. That is why the next Labour Government will not be satisfied with tinkering around the edges of a rigged economy; they will transform our economy so that it works in the interests of the ordinary people I represent.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Streeter. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) and all hon. Members who contributed to the debate. I clearly do not agree with all the points they made—I am sure they will not agree with everything I am about to say—but it is crystal clear that every one of them is driven by a passion to protect the most vulnerable people in society. We all want the same result; we just disagree about how to get from A to B. I am conscious that hon. Members mentioned lots of different issues. I am merely a junior Minister in the Department for Work and Pensions, so in the limited time I have got, I will try to cover the points about employment, income and poverty, universal credit migration and food banks. If time permits, I will also cover some of the other points that fall at least roughly within my area.
All speakers acknowledged that we have seen record employment, with 1,000 new jobs created every day, unemployment at record lows, and 964,000 fewer workless households. That is important because research statistics show that workless households are four times more likely to be in poverty. I will come to the specific points made during the debate about that.
Many of the speakers mentioned that there had been an increase in zero-hours contracts, for example. That is not the case: the number of zero-hours contracts actually fell by over 100,000 in the last year alone, and they represent only 2.4% of total employment, which is around the same level as under the last Labour Government.
Justin Tomlinson
Briefly, although I will not take too many interventions because I am conscious of time.
Maria Eagle
Can the Minister explain why 32% of those using the South Liverpool food bank said that the main reason they were doing so was low income?
Justin Tomlinson
As I said, I will come to food banks—a little patience, please.
We all recognise that getting people into work is important, but ultimately the question is whether it leads to real cash in their pockets. Research has shown that there are one million fewer people in absolute poverty—a record low—and 300,000 fewer children living in absolute poverty, but there is still more to do. While food insecurity has almost halved in the last five years alone—we are at 5.4%; the European average is 7.9%—there is still more to do.
Luciana Berger
I have been reflecting on all the positive spin that the Minister is trying to put on various figures, but why then we are receiving a visit from the UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights in the next few weeks? Why is that person coming to this country to see the awful situation that we face?
Justin Tomlinson
We get reviewed as a signatory country and supporter of the UN’s work, and I will be speaking personally to the person coming.
Of the four current measures of poverty—relative, absolute, and before and after housing costs—three are lower than in 2010 and the other is the same. Those in poverty, who are the focus of this debate, are on average £400 better off in real terms than they were in 2010, while those in full-time work on the national living wage have seen a 7% real-terms increase in their income in the last two years alone. We have done that through a combination of increasing the national living wage—there are arguments about what the level should be, but I do not need to remind colleagues that the rate that we first set was higher than the one in the manifesto that Labour Members stood on in 2015—our income tax threshold, which has completely removed the lowest 3.6 million earners from paying income tax, which is worth £1,000 a year, and our extension of free childcare and other areas of support.
Let me turn to universal credit, which is very topical. One thing that surprised me was that nobody mentioned conversations with work coaches. I know that many Opposition Members have been to visit jobcentres—I have done my research and looked at their Twitter feeds. As a constituency MP—I have only recently been recalled as a Minister—I know that the work coaches on the frontline are very enthusiastic about the principle of universal credit. That does not mean that everything is right, but they are enthusiastic about it. For the first time, they can offer personalised and tailored support.
Maria Eagle
The Minister knows very well that there have been coaches in jobcentres for many years helping people on an individual basis. He seems to be arguing that there is no problem—that food bank use is going down and that poverty is going down. I can tell him that that is not the experience in my constituency.
Justin Tomlinson
That is not what I am saying at all. I said I would come to food banks. The hon. Lady has not been to a jobcentre to talk to work coaches and see what they have to say. [Interruption.] I know that other hon. Members have.
The key is that the legacy benefits are not some panacea, where everything is great. As constituency MPs, we all know from our casework that legacy benefits are complex, involving three different agencies—HMRC, local government, and the DWP jobcentre—and frankly, one would need to be a nuclear physicist to deal with all three.
Over 700,000 families on legacy benefits were, on average, missing out on £285 of support that they were entitled to, worth a total of £2.4 billion. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) is heckling from the sides again, but these are some of the most vulnerable people, and my role as the Minister is to represent them. I have seen in my casework, as a genuine local resident in my constituency, as the MP and, formerly, a councillor, that some people were overwhelmed by the legacy system. Under universal credit, they will have for the first time a named work coach who will stick with them throughout the process to ensure that they are not missing out. That does not mean that universal credit has been perfect—we have had many debates and there have already been many changes. In some cases, under tax credits and legacy benefits we had tax rates of 90%. I know that would please the Leader of the Opposition, but that is not what the decent public want. There were 16, 24 and 30-hour cliff edges, which created a barrier to people progressing in work. The legacy benefits were seeing £2.4 billion-worth of support missed. We cannot knowingly stand by and say, “We’ve got to stop universal credit,” because these are vulnerable people missing out on money.
We are conscious that we have had to make changes to the migration. We have always said that the roll-out of universal credit will be slow and steady—it is a “test and learn”. In last year’s autumn statement, we rightly announced that we would remove the seven-day waiting list, a welcome change that was called for by a cross-party campaign.
A lot of the cases brought up involve people who have not had access to money. We realised that people did not know that the system was not designed to provide advance benefits, so it is now a given that the work coach will push that information in the initial interview.
Anybody currently receiving housing benefit will now get two weeks of housing benefit in addition—no strings attached—which can then be used. We recognised that we should not presume in all cases that they should take full responsibility for paying their housing benefit, so we now offer, particularly where people’s housing benefit payments are sent directly to their landlords.
We have launched the Landlord Portal, which is very much welcomed by local government and housing associations, and we have protected the severe disability premium. In conjunction with the £3 billion-worth of transitional support in place, over one million disabled families will be on average £110 a month better off.
Justin Tomlinson
No, I am sorry; I am running out of time. Severely disabled claimants will benefit from higher rates, ranging from £158 to £326. That is why hon. Members should think carefully about the unintended consequences of seeking political capital by calling for a stop to universal credit. Yes, lobby for improvements, but to stop it would be to deprive some of the most vulnerable people of support.
I am very short of time but I want to touch on food banks. I have met the Trussell Trust and have visited food banks as a constituency MP, a Minister and a councillor, and I have friends who work in food banks. I welcome the work of the football clubs in Liverpool in food collection; I went to see my local football club, Swindon Supermarine FC, which was doing a food bank collection last night. People use food banks for varying reasons, but if they are missing out on formal support, we must do something about that. I made a commitment to the Trussell Trust, with which I want to work closely—I am not precious. It is important that we help those vulnerable people, which could mean having a point of contact in every jobcentre so that if the volunteers spot someone who has been to the food bank first, they can then come to us. My commitment is to do all that we can for vulnerable people.
Work and Pensions
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 9 months ago)
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Michael Tomlinson
Justin Tomlinson
This is a real priority for our Secretary of State and it will involve building on our work to enable care leavers to make advanced UC claims, access to the youth application support programme, early access to the work and health programme and extensions to second chance learning, and we will work with employers to create more opportunities to build on this partnership with Barnardo’s.
[Official Report, 15 October 2018, Vol. 647, c. 405.]
Letter of correction from the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson):
An error has been identified in the response I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson) during topical questions.
The correct response should have been:
Justin Tomlinson
This is a real priority for our Secretary of State and it will involve building on our work to enable care leavers to make advanced UC claims, access to the youth application support programme, early access to the work and health programme and exemptions for second chance learning, and we will work with employers to create more opportunities to build on this partnership with Barnardo’s.
Oral Answers to Questions
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 9 months ago)
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Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
Mr Speaker
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his wedding, and we look forward to his reply.
Justin Tomlinson
A truly memorable day.
Alongside the personalised and tailored support of universal credit, claimants have access to extended childcare support, increases in the personal tax allowance and the introduction of the national living wage. For those transferring from legacy benefits, there is an additional two weeks of housing benefit support.
Alex Cunningham
It is all too easy for people to fall into debt with universal credit failures. My constituent Kayley Aithwaite gets paid on the last working day of each month, meaning she had two lots of wages considered in the last calculation period, and was denied her usual universal credit. How common is this particular problem and what is the Minister going to do about it?
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Gentleman. Universal credit is designed to mirror the world of work, with monthly payments. It is far better that, through the personalised and tailored support of their individual work coach, claimants are able to be given the support to navigate that now and not on the first day of entering work.
Justin Tomlinson
It is a great honour to share my honeymoon with so many wonderful colleagues.
Eleanor Smith (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab)
Justin Tomlinson
This is an issue that has been raised and that is why additional judges have been recruited to the tribunal system to make sure that goes as quickly as possible. Through their individual work coach, people will get the tailored support as quickly as they can.
Mr Speaker
I thought we might hear from the voice of South Suffolk, but the hon. Gentleman seems disinclined to participate in this exchange even though he has a comparable question. He is not obliged. If he is more interested in his phone, so be it. [Interruption.] Get in there, man. I call James Cartlidge.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
Justin Tomlinson
I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. That is absolutely key: with universal credit you will always be better off in work. UC removes the effective 90% tax rate of the legacy benefit and the cliff-edges of 16, 24 and 30 hours. It is a far simpler benefit, which is stopping the £2.4 billion-worth of benefits that were missed in claiming.
Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)
From July 2019, up to 2.8 million people will be required to move from their existing benefits by making a new claim for universal credit. Many are set to lose up to £200 a month. The Trussell Trust, the Child Poverty Action Group, Disability Rights UK, two former Prime Ministers, the future Chancellor and even the Archbishop of Canterbury have all called for a halt to this process, which is driving the growth of poverty in our communities. At what stage will the Secretary of State take her fingers out of her ears, listen to reality and halt this chaos?
Justin Tomlinson
This is the reality, as it stands today: complex legacy benefits of £2.4 billion-worth of benefits not being claimed—an average of £285 a month. As the roll-out of universal credit continues, it will remain a test-and-learn process. Where we can see improvements—we have made many already—we will continue to make them.
Stephen McPartland (Stevenage) (Con)
Lee Rowley (North East Derbyshire) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
This Government are delivering the biggest changes to the welfare system since its inception, creating flexibility to adapt to changing working patterns and offering personalised support.
Lee Rowley
I thank the Minister for his response. An increasing number of people in my constituency are self-employed and setting up their own businesses. Will the Minister outline what universal credit is doing to support people who are setting up their own businesses?
Justin Tomlinson
I thank my hon. Friend, who is a real champion of the self-employed community, and I am proudly a former business owner myself. Universal credit is far more flexible to adapt to changing circumstances, particularly for those who are starting up on their career of owning their business.
Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)
Justin Tomlinson
Yes, absolutely. This is an important point, and that is why we have improved the training for all work coaches to identify as quickly as possible those who need that additional support. It is a really important and key part of UC.
Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)
Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
I know that my hon. Friend has great experience in this area, and I should be very excited to hear about those proposals in more detail. I am keen to meet him to establish whether any lessons can be learned.
Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)
Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con)
Justin Tomlinson
This is a real priority for our Secretary of State and it will involve building on our work to enable care leavers to make advanced UC claims, access to the youth application support programme, early access to the Work and Health programme and extensions to second chance learning, and we will work with employers to create more opportunities to build on this partnership with Barnardo’s.[Official Report, 18 October 2018, Vol. 647, c. 10MC.]
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)
Universal Credit Split Payments
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 9 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Midlothian (Danielle Rowley), who has been a long-standing campaigner in this area through parliamentary questions; meeting the Minister for Employment, who has overall responsibility for universal credit; and visits to her local Jobcentre Plus, where she has also met supporting organisations. I know it is an area in which she has a long-standing track record of campaigning.
I share that passion. For many years I have supported my local women’s refuge. I have also worked with Women’s Aid, hosting parliamentary events prior to my ministerial appointment. I was very briefly on the Work and Pensions Committee, so I was present when they were considering the report, although I did not contribute to it because I was not there during the hearings. I pay tribute to my former colleagues on the Committee who were really engaged with this incredibly important topic.
Justin Tomlinson
I will take a few interventions, but I am conscious that I do not have too much time.
Ruth George
The Minister heard the powerful evidence taken by the Select Committee, of which I am a member. I am interested in how, having heard that evidence on the impact on women and, in particular, on children, he can justify the Government response to the recommendation that if a payment cannot be split it should go to the main carer by default.
Justin Tomlinson
I was not present when that evidence was given, just when the Committee was considering it, but I will cover many of those points as I proceed.
With respect to domestic abuse, we are covering physical, sexual, psychological, emotional and financial abuse, and controlling and coercive behaviour. We are particularly looking at economic abuse. We all agree that the solution to domestic violence is complex and should ultimately be delivered through the judicial system, but the Department has an incredibly important role, not just through UC but through the wider work of the Government. The Government are fully committed to taking the issue very seriously, and I expect that to have full cross-party support. The Department will continue to feed into progress towards the domestic violence and abuse Bill. I represent the Department on the inter-ministerial group on violence against women and girls, and we regularly work with key stakeholders such as Women’s Aid, Refuge and the ManKind Initiative—I shall give more details on that work as I proceed.
I was particularly touched by the case that the hon. Member for Midlothian raised. Today I met representatives of Women’s Aid and Refuge to talk specifically about the journey in the jobcentre process. It is now mandatory for all work coaches to have training to recognise and identify victims of domestic abuse and those at risk, and to offer support, which can include signposting to national partnership organisations such as Refuge and Women’s Aid, but also to local organisations—every town is different. That approach relies on people being willing to be referred, but they are offered that menu of signposting options.
In her case study, the hon. Lady mentioned financial barriers to people leaving their household. The hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) said in an intervention that it would be totally unacceptable for the Government to put up a barrier. That is a really key point, so we ensure that people who wish to leave their household can be put immediately on the universal credit single payment in their own right. If they are already on a legacy housing benefit, they will get two weeks of additional housing benefit money up front, to give them immediate cash. While they are there, they will also have 100% access to the advance payment on day one, as well as the signposting.
We do not encourage people to stay in such a household, so we put a big emphasis on partnership working and on talking to those with expertise in the area. However, those who do wish to stay, for whatever reason, can request split payments. The hon. Member for Midlothian cited a figure of 15 households, but the figure is actually 20. At the moment, the majority of people going through UC are single claimants, so it is not an exact science, but we will continue to look at the statistics. I take the point that the data is limited; it tells us whether people are now successfully receiving split payments, but I would like more—that is a given. As a Minister, I will push for more data because we will need it to target support. UC design is not a simple process.
Dr Whitford
As the Minister knows, I introduced a ten-minute rule Bill on the issue: the Universal Credit (Application, Advice and Assistance) Bill. In my work as a breast cancer surgeon I have seen the effects of current policy in action. Does he recognise that collecting data on women who have applied would just lead to more complacency? We know from the survey that 85% of women would not dare to apply.
Justin Tomlinson
The data is not the solution, just a part of it. I am just being supportive on one of the recommendations. I absolutely accept the hon. Lady’s point.
On financial support, if someone has financial housing commitments such as rent or a mortgage for their existing household, we can, in effect, make double payments of housing benefit for up to 26 weeks automatically, or up to 52 weeks at discretion. Again, we are doing everything we can to remove the financial barrier to people moving away from their household.
Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
I commend the hon. Member for Midlothian (Danielle Rowley) for securing the debate. I do not believe that my hon. Friend the Minister has fundamentally addressed the issues raised about the particular vulnerabilities of people who face abuse and of people with mental illness, who may well be at risk of exploitation. I ask him to take away from the debate the thought that rather than carving out exemptions for special cases, it would be much simpler to say, “There is a potential problem for vulnerable people, so let’s have split payments.”
Justin Tomlinson
If my hon. Friend had been a little more patient and had not intervened, my very next point would have covered that.
It is important that when we design policy, we do not presume that everything is utopian. I have made a commitment today to Women’s Aid and Refuge—I stress that our meetings were in the diary before today’s debate was arranged—that over the next couple of weeks they will work with me and our operational frontline teams to check the typical experience. My hon. Friend makes a valid point about those with mental health issues; not everybody immediately says, “I am a victim or potential victim of domestic abuse,” so it is about identifying the signs and looking at what additional support can be given for those who, whether because of mental health or as a consequence of the abuse that they face, do not have the confidence to navigate the incredibly difficult and challenging journey to break free. We will therefore do a deep dive to look at what the typical journey is like for people, and at what more we can do through training and through providing local partnerships. Every single district will have a highly trained named team programme manager solely responsible for making those partnership arrangements locally and nationally.
Justin Tomlinson
This will have to be the last intervention, because I have a lot to say and not long to say it, and I do not want to be criticised for missing things.
Jess Phillips
I just wonder what the jobcentre will do when it discovers, as we have all done, that those local partnerships lead to a dead end because the services are no longer there.
Justin Tomlinson
We will be looking at that. I understand the hon. Lady’s point. I want to engage with the experts—the ManKind Initiative, Women’s Aid and Refuge—to look at it and identify the problems. I am not in charge of UC; I am in charge of trying to make it better for those with complex needs, including victims of domestic abuse. That is a real priority for me.
I welcome the work of the Work and Pensions Committee and the fact that its report states:
“Since 2010, the Government has begun to make great strides in tackling domestic abuse… It has also demonstrated a clear commitment to being more supportive of survivors of domestic abuse.”
Although we are not everything, we play an important role, and I take that seriously.
I am conscious of time, so let me address the specific point about split payments. I welcome the fact that Scotland wishes to try them. As it stands, anybody who is a victim of domestic abuse can be given a split payment. I accept the point that there are then challenges—not unreasonably, the hon. Member for Midlothian said that the current recipient would notice that it was potentially half of the income. We need to look at Scotland because we have to learn from the test and look at the unintended consequences.
Those groups that campaigned for a split payment do not agree on how to split it. It is not the case that everybody would simply do it 50:50. If the state arbitrarily says that somebody should have 70% and somebody else should have 30%, that could have unintended consequences. That may not mean that it is not the right way to do it, but it is why we have committed to give support to the Scottish Parliament to do its pilot. The pilot will cover a sufficiently large area for us to draw good information from it and decide whether split payments are the way to go or whether—because of unintended consequences, and despite the good intentions—they are not.
The answer to the specific question of whether the Scottish Government have introduced suggestions on how to do split payments or a plan for legislation is, “Absolutely not.” I suspect, in their defence, that that is because the issue of how the payments are split is so complex. However, they will get our full support to make whatever they do work. Just to be clear, the principle of having household income is not new to UC; it has been the case for legacy benefits since the dawn of time. That does not mean that it is right, but we will look closely at the Scottish Government.
Justin Tomlinson
No, because I have only one minute left.
It is a shame that this debate was not a longer one in which hon. Members could have expanded on the points they made today in interventions. However, there is a real commitment from me as the Minister that we will work with the experts and the Scottish Government to see whether lessons can be learned from their pilot. In the immediate future, we are looking at what will happen and what we can do to identify and support those who are in danger of domestic abuse or are current victims of it, so that we can do our bit. It is an issue that the Government take very seriously and will continue to push, not just in this area but through the forthcoming domestic abuse Bill. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Midlothian, who has been a dedicated worker in this area.
Question put and agreed to.
Work and Pensions
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 10 months ago)
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Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
It seems clear that the will of the House is that a child who has lost a parent should not be penalised because of the marital status of the parents. Does the Minister intend to carry out an equality impact assessment of this benefit?
Justin Tomlinson
Actually, as part of the commitment to bringing in the new bereavement payments, we will do a full impact assessment, which will be shared with the House. One of the key changes is the additional £1,500 in the initial payment for those in a marriage or civil partnership who had children. We understand the importance of making sure that those with children get additional support.
[Official Report, 5 September 2018, Vol. 646, c. 193.]
Letter of correction from Justin Tomlinson:
An error has been identified in the response I gave to the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens).
The correct response should have been:
Justin Tomlinson
Actually, as part of the commitment to bringing in the new bereavement payments, we will do an evaluation, which will be shared with the House. One of the key changes is the additional £1,500 in the initial payment for those in a marriage or civil partnership who had children. We understand the importance of making sure that those with children get additional support.
Child Support (Miscellaneous Amendment) Regulations 2018
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
On 12 July 2018, Official Report, column 47WS, I made a statement to the House about laying the child support regulations.
I wish to give notice that I intend to re-lay these regulations to clarify some minor points in regulation 2.
These are that:
The non-resident parent (NRP) can be either the sole, or one of a number of beneficiaries to an asset for the purpose of assuming a notional income from it.
The Secretary of State would make the decision as to whether the sale of an asset would be unreasonable or may cause hardship to the child of a NRP.
A minor amendment to the definition of virtual currency; and
The definition of asset will now include assets owned jointly by, or held in the joint names of, the non-resident parent and another individual or individuals. This is to ensure that a provision which was intended to offer protection to third parties cannot be exploited by an NRP by transferring assets into joint names.
The regulations are subject to the affirmative procedure and I look forward to discussing them with colleagues in due course.
[HCWS956]
Funeral Poverty
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter, in today’s very important and very timely debate.
First of all, I pay tribute to the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck), who has been a long-standing campaigner on, and is highly respected in, this incredibly important area. Honestly, I am new as a Minister and I must stress that despite the plea of my hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes) that I should be allowed a power grab, this is an area of responsibility that is split across the Department for Work and Pensions, where I am a Minister; the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government; the Ministry of Justice; and the Department of Health and Social Care. So I am afraid that I personally cannot commit to all of the asks today.
Nevertheless, I will set out and make very clear—I do not have a pre-written speech; I have been listening very carefully to what has been said—some of the things that are being done, some of the things that are in train, where I think we can go further, and what we need to do as we work together on this incredibly important issue.
In her very measured speech, the hon. Member for South Shields made a number of key points, which were also made by many others, particularly on the lack of clarity in discussions around eligibility, the whole stress of the process and the actual value of support that is available.
My hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Sir David Amess), who has been another tireless campaigner in this area, also highlighted the stress involved in the process, particularly around the eligibility criteria, and then the potential gap between the support that is available and the costs for things that many people feel are required. He also expressed some concerns about the pre-plans and the scrutiny of the industry. Again, I will cover those issues later.
As for the hon. Members for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray), for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens), and for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson), I am genuinely very interested in the changes that the Scottish Government will potentially make. I will look very carefully to see whether lessons can be learned there and again they made valuable points about funeral plans and scrutiny, which I will cover when I am further along in my speech. Also, the Scottish National party’s spokesman—the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts—highlighted the fact that we have worked together and we are in mutual agreement in many areas, and I hope that this issue will be one that we can continue to work on.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings for the question he put at Prime Minister’s questions last week; that was advance lobbying, even before we begin our lobbying in particular areas. He was right to highlight that expectations have changed; I spent much of the summer making visits, including to funeral directors, and that message very much came through. Actually, as part of some of our long-term solutions, that also presents an opportunity, because there has been a change in expectations and there is now much wider scope for people to pay their respects as they wish to. He was also absolutely right to highlight concerns to do with funerals and public health; again, I will come on to that point later.
I thank the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for his very kind words. As ever, he contributed by giving a measured and sensible summary of the situation, which shows what a proactive campaigner he is here in Parliament in reflecting the views of his constituents. However, he made a mistake by saying that two things are certain in life—death and taxes. In fact, three things are certain: death; taxes; and his contributing to a debate. [Laughter.]
Mr Hayes
By the way, Mr Streeter, I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship as I contribute to this debate, and I should have said so earlier.
I will forgive my hon. Friend the Minister for not calling me “right hon.” if he will agree to meet me to discuss this issue further. Would that be a fair deal?
Justin Tomlinson
I thank my right hon. Friend for that request, in response to which I say, “Fear not. Hang on”; I will be covering it as part of the things that I will address going forward.
We have discussed the three elements of support that are available. First, and predominantly, there are the funeral expense payments for the necessary costs, which can be accessed by those who qualify for benefits such as income support, state pension credit, income-based jobseeker’s allowance, the disability or severe disability element of housing benefit, income-related employment support allowance, the element of working tax credit, universal credit and support for mortgage interest. As I had to read out that list, I absolutely accept the point about what is often the confusion over eligibility; again, I will come on to that.
Secondly, there are the funds available for the additional expenses. However, it has been highlighted that the figure involved has not changed since 2003, so a number of Governments have had to wrestle with that decision. Nevertheless, I understand that that is an issue that has been raised by all those who contributed today. Thirdly, there are the social budget loans. Support is also available to working-age people through the bereaved payment support, a new benefit whereby we increase the initial payment with the potential for that money to be used for funerals, if claimants needed or wished to use it in that way.
As I have said, this issue is cross-departmental, but work is already going on. In June, the Competition and Markets Authority announced its investigation of this industry. I think we all welcome that. The CMA will look at the whole process, including its transparency—or lack of it—and fairness. Actually, I learned through my visits this summer that there is no regulation at all in this area—any one of us could set up as a funeral director tomorrow. I am not sure that that is a great thing.
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and that is on the list of things that I will look at.
We must also focus on the quality and the standards of funerals. I accept the point that my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings made, when he said that people do not necessarily shop around for funerals. Again, on my visits this summer, I was told that it is often the case that people go to the same funeral director that everyone else in their family has ever used, so that the relationship is built up. In this area, it is not necessarily an empowered consumer shopping around and using their buying power—I 100% get that.
Nevertheless, the CMA investigation is important as it will shape our work going forward. We expect the interim report in November and the final report next May. This investigation will be integral to our work in the future, because it is a comprehensive review of what is happening out there in the market.
Also, the market is responding, which is a good thing. Both Dignity and the Co-operative, two of the biggest players in the market, have started to offer more affordable basic funeral packages; that is a great step. Following the CMA investigation, the onus will be on us as to how we can make such basic packages more of a given and build on them; that is a really important area for us to look at. The Royal London national funeral cost index has also been doing lots of investigations, and I will meet Royal London later in the year.
We have already made some vital improvements.
Mrs Lewell-Buck
I thank the Minister for giving way and I am sorry that I did not welcome him to his new position; it is hard to keep up with things here these days, with reshuffle after reshuffle. Before he moves on to say what is coming in the future, can he update me in relation to a point I made in my speech? I asked what had happened to the discussions that I was promised two years ago about working with the sector to develop a simple funeral.
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. That is ongoing work, but we felt that we needed additional evidence. I understand the importance of getting these things done, although I am relatively new to this role. However, we needed the information from the CMA to give us the ability to make informed asks, in respect of what we expect of the industry and what more we can do to empower the industry to deliver more affordable options. Perhaps then we can see areas where the Government can consider the public health aspect of funerals, as was raised in the debate, and also what local government can do. I understand the frustration, I absolutely do, and my commitment, as I am trying to demonstrate, is that we will do a lot more.
We have extended the claim period from three to six months. That is a welcome measure. We have exempted contributions from relations, friends and charities, which is also welcome. On the key bit about people not understanding, we have already made a start by introducing a helpline, about which we have had fantastic feedback. It is really important to try to give people more information and there is a lot more to be done in that area. People do not receive the ultimate decision until they have either signed a contract saying, “This is what I want to do”—but it is people’s nature to often change what they want—or until the funeral has taken place, so I understand the important point that more needs to be done on that issue. I will continue to meet and work with the industry, utilising its expertise and that of any colleagues here who wish to be engaged following both the interim and final CMA reports. I would welcome such contributions.
Mr Hayes
I can tell from the Minister’s tone that he really appreciates the issue and is determined to do something about it, and I thank him for that. I probably complicated my question earlier. Will he meet a small delegation of colleagues—he clearly knows the people concerned—perhaps following the interim report, to look at how we take this further?
Justin Tomlinson
I am absolutely committed to doing that and am happy to do so. The Treasury is investigating pre-planned funerals. The matter is not in my area, but we welcome the work and will carefully consider the outcomes. We absolutely need to continue to make the forms simpler—we have done a lot on that but there is more to do—and the whole process quicker.
Neil Gray
The benefit is to be devolved to Scotland and rolled out next year. We are looking at eligibility for funeral payments but it is still to be firmed up. Is the Minister considering the eligibility criteria concerning those relatives who have the capacity to pay but with whom the next of kin, who gets the funeral bill, might not have any relationship? That is certainly something that has prevented someone in my constituency from being able to access funeral assistance. It is a complicated matter, but Ministers need to look at it.
Justin Tomlinson
Part of the main reason why the issue is so complicated is because it is to do with qualifying relatives’ next of kin, and we are constantly looking at that. I very much hope that the hon. Gentleman will be part of the roundtables as we further consider the matter.
On the children’s funerals front, I join the tributes paid to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris). I have enjoyed working with her on this and a number of other campaigns. She is a real credit to Parliament, on this and other matters, and I think we all welcome the improvements that have been made. It has been demonstrated that where the Government have been able to look at the matter practically and constructively we have responded, and rightly so. In addition to the ongoing work with the forms and the helpline, and with providing information, we are also supporting the private Member’s Bill on parental bereavement leave and pay for parents.
I understand the concerns raised about public health funerals. I too have heard stories about people not being able to pay their final respects, and about the length of time taken and the confusion during what is an incredibly distressing period. Although that is not a matter for the DWP, it is all part of the same thing, and I am keen, as we get all that information back from the Treasury and the CMA, that we drive forward really important changes.
I thank all the speakers in what has been a really helpful debate. It is also very timely, with the report due soon, and I look forward to working with many Members here on this important subject in the future.
Widowed Parent’s Allowance
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I will make a statement on widowed parent’s allowance.
Widowed parent’s allowance is paid to families in receipt of child benefit where one parent’s husband, wife or civil partner died prior to 6 April 2017. It was replaced after that date by bereavement support payments, which are now paid by the Government to families who find themselves in the same unfortunate circumstances. New claimants have no eligibility for widowed parent’s allowance.
Last week the Supreme Court ruled that the primary legislation that governs widowed parent’s allowance is incompatible with the principles of European human rights law, as the benefit precludes any entitlement to widowed parent’s allowance for a surviving unmarried partner. We are in the very earliest stages of carefully considering the full implications of that ruling. Officials at the Department are working closely with their counterparts in Northern Ireland to examine the judgment and what our next steps should be.
However, as the House will be aware, only Parliament is able to change primary legislation. Lady Hale ruled:
“A declaration of incompatibility does not change the law: it is then for the relevant legislature to decide whether or how it should be changed.”
The Court’s ruling therefore does not change the current eligibility rules for receiving bereavement benefits.
I remind the House that the question of opening up bereavement benefits to cohabitees was debated and decided against in this place during the passage of the Pensions Act 2014, which introduced bereavement support payments, the successor to widowed parent’s allowance. It is worth noting that restricting bereavement payments to claimants who were in a legal union with the deceased has been a consistent feature of bereavement support in order to protect and clarify the entitlement. Other contributory benefits linked to national insurance contributions also contain special rules for claimants in a legal union.
A legal union gives the surviving spouse the right to claim state benefits derived from their deceased partner’s national insurance contributions. This principle provides a clear threshold for determining who can be provided for from a deceased person’s NI accumulation, and it serves to promote the institutions of marriage and civil partnership.
As I have stated, we are carefully considering the Court’s judgment and how the Department should proceed in light of it. When we have looked at all the options, I will come before the House to update Parliament further.
Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)
Last week the Supreme Court ruled that the denial of widowed parent’s allowance to surviving unmarried partners with children is incompatible with the law, in upholding the appeal of Siobhan McLaughlin, who lived with her partner, John Adams, and their four children for 23 years until John died in January 2014. I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement, and I pay tribute to Siobhan McLaughlin and her family for their courage in pursuing this important case. Unmarried bereaved parents should not be subject to discrimination because of their marital status; to put it simply, their children’s needs are the same. The Supreme Court said:
“The financial loss caused to families with children by the death of a parent...is the same whether or not the parents are married or in a civil partnership.”
The financial support provided by the state can be vital to a family who are already grieving for their loss and who may also be facing financial hardship because of diminished income.
The judgment relates to legislation in Northern Ireland, but unmarried couples are ineligible for widowed parent’s allowance in the rest of the UK as well, so the principle established by the Supreme Court has wider implications. Bereaved parents are already contacting support organisations, such as the Childhood Bereavement Network, to ask for guidance in the light of the judgment.
The Minister said that the Government are considering the Court’s judgment and how the Department should proceed, but this judgment did not come out of the blue. In March 2016, the Work and Pensions Committee warned the Government that they could be forced to change their policy as a result of this specific case. The Select Committee’s “Support for the bereaved” report, published in March 2016, clearly expressed the view that excluding unmarried couples was wrong. It said:
“Penalising children on the grounds of the marital status of their parents is unjust.”
So what assessment has the Department made of the cost of bringing the legislation on eligibility for widowed parent’s allowance into line with the Supreme Court judgment in the whole of the UK? What assessment has the Department made of the number of families who made a claim for widowed parent’s allowance that was denied because the parents were not married?
The Minister said that restricting eligibility to those in a legal union has been a consistent feature of bereavement support in order to protect and clarify the entitlement. However, although unmarried couples were treated differently when it came to making a claim for widowed parent’s allowance, that does not apply when it comes to the Department ending their claim, because if the surviving partner cohabits with a new partner their claim is ended, just as it would be if they remarried or entered a civil partnership. The Minister said that it was for Parliament to change the law, and he referred to the vote in 2014. That led to the Government introducing the bereavement support payment in April 2017 to replace widowed parent’s allowance and two other bereavement benefits. Yet they decided to continue to exclude unmarried couples, even though both Members in this place and voluntary organisations working in the field called for eligibility to be extended to them. The Department for Work and Pensions itself estimated that 75% of bereaved families with children would receive less support under the new system.
The Government claimed that they were motivated not by the desire to save money but by the need to “modernise” financial support for bereaved families in order to better reflect society. According to the Office for National Statistics, cohabiting couples are the second largest family type and the fastest growing. The number of cohabiting couples has more than doubled, from 1.5 million in 1996 to 3.3 million in 2017, and the percentage of dependent children living in cohabiting couple families increased from 7% in 1996 to 15% by 2017. When the Government introduced the bereavement support payment to “modernise” support, why did they not extend eligibility to unmarried couples? What message does that send to those children about how they are valued by this Government?
Will the Government now act to bring bereavement support payment into line with the principle established by the Supreme Court that bereaved children should not be disadvantaged because of their parents’ marital status? The purpose of financial support by the state for bereaved families is to try to ensure that, as far as possible, families struggling with grief at the loss of a parent or partner should not have to face the additional worry of how they will manage financially. That should surely apply to families regardless of whether the parents were married or not, as the Supreme Court said last week.
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Lady for her response. As I said in my statement, the Court cannot change primary legislation, and many of the points she raises are the very ones we will be considering, including the potential impacts of any changes that could happen. I will happily update the House on those once we have had the chance to consider them fully.
Many of the other points raised were at the heart of the principles of why we brought forward the new bereavement payments process: it is far simpler and it is a quicker process. We did consider the point about cohabitation, but this is not straightforward, as was extensively debated during the discussions around the time of the Pensions Act 2014, particularly as the regulations were brought forward. That makes this a complex process, because it can be open to interpretation, leading to delays and additional burdens for claimants, particularly at a time of distress. Any extension could trigger multiple claims; a bereaved person may have been legally married to one person but living with a new partner, who would therefore become eligible.
The hon. Lady talked about the new proposals for families with children, but I will challenge her back on that, because the new system is easier and quicker, and the payment is in addition to other household income. It is not taxed or means-tested, and it is not applied to the benefit cap. These are all keys areas that help those with the lowest income, as the principle was based on fairness. We also widened support so that anyone of working age would qualify and younger spouses and civil partners without children would get support. Specifically for those bereaved with children, an additional £1,500 was paid as the first lump sum. In some cases, those families could be eligible for additional benefits, whether through universal credit, child benefit, tax credits or the funeral expenses payment.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
Whatever the decision of the Court, will the Minister give consideration in his deliberations to the fact that many on these Benches have a preference for our own law made in this House over the provisions of European human rights law?
Justin Tomlinson
I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. Let me reassure him that that has always been the founding principle of contributory benefits, and to our mind it should continue to be so.
Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement. He said that the Department was only consulting Northern Ireland on the implications of this Court ruling, but this is a UK reserved benefit, so why is that consultation not extending further? He also said that the Supreme Court ruling does not change the law, but the ruling does say that the law as it stands is flawed, so not updating the eligibility rules has the potential to store up further challenge to the new as well as the legacy benefit, given the precedent that has now been set by Siobhan McLaughlin’s significant win. It would be grossly unfair, and surely open to further challenge, if the Minister did not come back to the House to explain how this decision was to be applied across the board, so can he confirm that the work he is now undertaking with the Department is with that end destination in mind, and is not seeking to limit this significant win to just one family?
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. The Court ruling specifically applied to Northern Ireland, but I understand the point he has made and I would be happy to meet him to discuss wider implications across the UK. On the other points he raised, those are the very things we are considering, and I will update the House once we have the chance to assess them fully.
Sir Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con)
I am no fan of the European courts and I am extremely pro-marriage, but we have to live in the modern world that we live in now, and when the Government consider how to respond to this Court ruling, will they look at something called fairness and natural justice? Many people who will have been able to go to work because their partner stayed at home with the children will have then lost their loved one when they were not married. We need to show compassion, while understanding the benefits system.
Justin Tomlinson
I thank my right hon. Friend for that and he raises a fair point. As with any of the benefits we provide for those in need, this is always underpinned by the principle of fairness.
Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Ind)
May I welcome the Minister back to the Treasury Bench, after a very short period with the Work and Pensions Committee? Might I say that there is some disappointment at the fact that more progress has not been made for him to report to the House today. In other areas of social security the cohabitation rule applies and evidence of cohabitation can be male slippers in the home, but in this case we are talking about evidence of children. There is no doubt that this was a stable union. As the right hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Sir Mike Penning) said, surely in such cases fairness is not operating.
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that. I enjoyed my brief four or five weeks as part of his Select Committee, where he was a formidable, excellent and well-respected Chair. Fairness is the key. In my defence, this judgment was made only last week and it would have been churlish of me to make a rushed decision, as this has very serious implications and we need to consider it carefully. I will return to update the House as quickly but as sensibly as possible.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
When I served on the Work and Pensions Committee, under the chairmanship of the excellent right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field), whose party no longer seems to find room for him, although he remains Chairman of the Committee, we looked at various issues to do with the widowed parent’s allowance. I hope the Minister will look carefully at the recommendations in that report, which tackled the issue of partners and of how income would be treated under universal credit, because there is a question of fairness to address in how widowed parent’s allowance is currently treated.
Justin Tomlinson
My hon. Friend raises an important point, and that is why under the new benefit payments any income that is gained is not means-tested and the benefit cap does not apply to it, to make sure that people are not given money on the one hand that is taken away on the other, and that the most vulnerable people get the support that they need.
Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)
I have to tell the Minister that I met his predecessors about this issue, because it is clear that legislation written in 1958 should not mean that children in 2018 live in poverty. We have cases of parents having to get married in intensive care units to avoid the humiliation that this legislation entails. Will he learn from Germany, where the money follows the child through orphan pensions and parenting is the requirement, not marriage? Telling parents that they have only 18 months to grieve is hurtful. Telling them that their family does not exist because they did not put a ring on it is unforgivable. I hope that he will take up my offer of a meeting with the campaigners from Walthamstow—women who have been directly affected by this—and I hope we will finally bring the legislation up to 2018.
Justin Tomlinson
I will be happy to meet the hon. Lady and her colleagues. I have worked with her before on several issues, and I am happy to extend that invitation. It is a balance: contributory benefits have always followed the principle that inheritable benefits are based on the concept of legal marriage or civil partnership because that provides legal certainty. I understand the points that have been raised, and we are considering them following the judgment.
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
I know that the Minister recognises that all such cases involve distressing circumstances as someone has lost a parent, and that legal niceties are therefore not their first thought. When the Government look at this, will they consider carefully a system that is compassionate but also brings clarity, so that people know exactly when they will qualify?
Justin Tomlinson
As I have said, fairness must underpin this. We do not want to have a complex benefit, because it is a very distressing time for people. We want it to be simple and quick and to provide support to those most in need.
Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)
It seems clear that the will of the House is that a child who has lost a parent should not be penalised because of the marital status of the parents. Does the Minister intend to carry out an equality impact assessment of this benefit?
Justin Tomlinson
Actually, as part of the commitment to bringing in the new bereavement payments, we will do a full impact assessment, which will be shared with the House. One of the key changes is the additional £1,500 in the initial payment for those in a marriage or civil partnership who had children. We understand the importance of making sure that those with children get additional support.[Official Report, 13 September 2018, Vol. 646, c. 6MC.]
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
I echo the calls for compassion and fairness when dealing with children affected in this way. I also gently remind the Minister that this is the seventh ruling in the last 18 months against different aspects of the Government’s social security policy. It would be appropriate for the Government to show some humility and listen.
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Lady, but those are the principles that govern us. The new system that we have brought in provides immediate support; it prioritises help for those on the lowest incomes; and it recognises that those with children, regardless of age, need additional immediate support. We will continue to assess both the ruling of the Court in relation to Northern Ireland and the wider implications of the new benefit.
Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)
I urge the Government to accept the ruling by the Court. Several hon. Members have talked about fairness, and it is a basic issue of right or wrong. Why does the Department take account of cohabiting couples when determining eligibility for universal credit, but deny those same households bereavement support if one of them passes away?
Justin Tomlinson
I would gently remind the hon. Gentleman that it was his former colleague Steve Webb who steered through the Pensions Act 2014, when this issue was extensively debated. The principle of the new benefit is about fairness and delivering quick and immediate support for those most in need.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
I too thank the Minister for advance sight of the statement.
My constituent Donna McClelland died on 20 May, leaving two sons, Cian and Danial, and her partner of 24 years, Arwel Pritchard. They were engaged, but they had prioritised buying a house over the cost of getting married. Arwel and Donna put their children’s home first. When will the Government bring forward a review that will console Mr Pritchard and admit that a legal contract is not a precondition for supporting a grieving family?
Justin Tomlinson
May I first express my personal condolences to the family at this distressing time? I understand the points that the hon. Lady makes, and they are being considered. In the short term, I urge hon. Members to look at the other potential benefits that could be offered to support families, including universal credit and tax credits. I will return to update the House fully as soon as I can following the ruling by the Court last week.
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
In a debate on 2 March 2017 on bereavement support benefit, I pressed the then Minister on the issue of cohabiting couples. I pointed out that they are treated as couples for other benefits such as tax credits, but I was told that extending eligibility to cohabitees would “increase spend” and be “complex to administer”. Despite what the Minister has said about legal certainties, we know that many bereaved cohabitees and their children have lost out because of the UK Government’s reluctance to recognise them as families. In the light of the Court judgment and the hardship caused to bereaved cohabitees and their children, does he agree that the Government should apologise for their inaction and that, as soon as can possibly be arranged, this needs to be corrected retrospectively so that justice is obtained for the people affected?
Justin Tomlinson
This issue was considered at great length in debates on the Pensions Act 2014 and the subsequent regulations. It is not straightforward. How do the Government act as judge and jury in situations in which someone could be living with a different partner? At a time of great distress, the emphasis has to be on providing appropriate and quick support particularly targeted at those in the most need. Following the ruling in the Supreme Court, the points raised will be considered and I will come back as quickly as is appropriate to provide an update to the House.
Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)
It is an important principle that social security should be a safety net for us all, because we cannot predict circumstances such as the death of a partner or parent, which could happen at any time. Children should not lose out regardless of the marital status of their parents. How much has the Department spent on fighting the decision in the courts, and can the Minister confirm that it has ruled out appealing the decision?
Justin Tomlinson
It is right to highlight that we should provide support, and that is why in the new benefit we have widened the support available to anyone of a working age and to younger spouses and civil partners without children. They will now get support, and it will not be lost when someone moves into a new relationship. We will continue to review the situation following the Court decision last week, and I will fully update the House.
Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)
The Minister’s statement did not contain the word “sorry”. Following on the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson), I will give the Minister an opportunity to say sorry to the individuals affected. Can he also tell us how many of the Government’s welfare and benefit policies have been found to be illegal since 2010?
Justin Tomlinson
As I have previously said, we are considering the Supreme Court ruling. As we have demonstrated, with the introduction of the new bereavement payments we have made it easier to claim, it is paid in addition to other household income, it is not taxed, it is not means-tested and is not included in the benefit cap. We have extended access to it and targeted those most in need. It is that principle of fairness that underlies not just these reforms but all our benefit reforms.
Equalities Legislation: Guide Dogs
Justin Tomlinson Excerpts(5 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Justin Tomlinson)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for this important debate, Sir David, and to respond to my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk), who is a tireless champion of his constituents and one of the best parliamentary speakers. Time and time again, he picks up incredibly important and relevant topics and champions them in Parliament, which genuinely makes a difference. This issue is predominantly covered by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and the Home Office, but it is with great pleasure that I respond as a former Minister for Disabled People and someone who has been personally active in connected issues. It is great to see such a turnout of MPs from across the House who are determined to see improvements in this area despite this being only a 30-minute debate.
My hon. Friend has been active on this issue for a number of years, and it came across in his speech that he is aware of all the challenges and opportunities. He delivered his case in a measured way. He was proactive, and he recognised that such situations, which we all want to prevent, are sometimes complex and—more often than not—unintentional, coming from a lack of awareness and understanding, and there are ways in which we can look to make improvements.
During my time as the Minister responsible for disabled people I was asked to appear on “Watchdog”—I love it. I was very excited; I was star struck. I was not allowed to see the footage, but I was told it was to do with access to venues. I then saw the footage live on air, and I was shown examples of problems with access, such as when managers in restaurants had turned the disabled toilet into an office, with shelves of books and filing cabinets in the toilet that people were expected to use. There were also examples of issues with assistance dogs. I was horrified and pledged that we needed to do more.
I organised a roundtable with representatives of the hospitality industry, and the key message was about that lack of awareness, particularly when a company has a regular turnover of employees. There were some good organisations that did training, but their staff changed over very quickly and that awareness needed to be embedded in the culture. We were able to get senior representatives from many major chains to engage, partly because if they did not turn up I was going to name them—always a good way—but I was encouraged by their willingness to do that. I was also delighted to champion the campaign by Tourism for All, “Tourism is for Everybody”, which aimed to help tourism businesses ensure a positive experience for every individual. That is vital. Not only is it completely unacceptable in 2018 for disabled people with guide and assistance dogs to be turned away from shops and restaurants—unless there is a very good reason for doing so—but it is also unlawful and makes little economic sense.
One in six people in this country have some form of disability, and their combined spending power, referred to as the “purple pound”, is estimated at £249 billion per annum. Businesses need to start waking up to that and tailor their accessibility to the needs of disabled customers, not only because that is right and a legal obligation, but to maximise the business opportunities that that will bring. It is a win-win situation.
Stephen Lloyd
I entirely endorse every word the Minister says, and I have been saying such things probably for 20 years. Despite the fact that legislation has been in place for many years, I am genuinely shocked that the number of people with assistance or guide dogs who are turned away or discriminated against in restaurants or similar places has increased significantly over the past couple of years. There must be a reason for that, and I suggest it is because it is difficult for people to access legal remedies in such situations.
Justin Tomlinson
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point, which goes to the heart of some of the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham. The onus should not be on the individual to go through complex and difficult legal channels; perhaps that should be a given and should be enforced—I will cover that point later in my speech.
It is more than 20 years since Parliament first built on the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 by introducing a duty on employers and service providers to make reasonable adjustments for employees and service users. That duty is now enshrined in the Equality Act 2010, and includes a requirement to provide or allow for auxiliary aids, including animals, for disabled people, to avoid their being put at a substantial disadvantage compared with people without disabilities. I very much recognise, however, the concerns raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham and in interventions, and we must consider this issue.
Part of the potential solution, and one suggestion that has been put forward, is that we could, in effect, replicate the enforcement that takes place in the taxi trade. Such enforcement includes criminal sanctions in which the police will get involved, and a licensing team that will take such issues into consideration. I understand why my hon. Friend would like a more hard-hitting approach, because without that we would not be having this debate. The Government are absolutely committed to reviewing access for disabled people and, if necessary, to amending regulations to improve disabled access to licensed premises, parking and housing. We are receptive to the points that have been raised today.
There have been calls for the licensing of venues and premises by local authorities to include certain conditions that relate to the satisfaction of reasonable adjustment requirements, or for repeat offenders who have refused entry to people with assistance dogs on more than one occasion to have to change their ways to renew their licence. I believe the Home Office considers that there may be some challenges to doing that, but it has committed to improving disabled people’s access to licensed premises as part of the alcohol strategy currently under review. That work will include understanding the scope of the challenges facing disabled people, and possible practical solutions. Everything that has been raised today will be fed into that, and I will ask my Home Office colleagues to meet my hon. Friend and talk through his proactive and very measured suggestions.
Janet Daby
On local authorities becoming more engaged and having more responsibilities, since 2010, Lewisham East has seen cuts to local government of £165 million, and we have halved the size of the council. Does the Minister agree that we need to invest in our local authorities and local government to fulfil duties such as the ones he mentions?
Justin Tomlinson
I strongly suggest that the hon. Lady’s local authority talks to that of my hon. Friend the Member for Angus (Kirstene Hair) about how it has been able to share best practice proactively. We can all learn lessons from that.
Part of the work of reviewing the alcohol strategy will involve engagement with the Office for Disability Issues, bringing in its expertise and network of support from various disability charities to scope out the work and understand how best to engage formally with disabled people’s organisations and other representative groups. I am very encouraged by the Government’s move on that important issue. We also welcome the current inquiry by the Women and Equalities Committee into enforcement of the Equality Act 2010. That is timely, as it links into our commitment to improve and strengthen the enforcement of equality laws, so that businesses that deny people a service are properly investigated and rightly held to account. In conclusion, this has been a constructive, helpful, timely and measured debate, and all suggestions made will be filtered through. It is a priority for this Government to improve the situation, and I thank all hon. Members for their support in this vital area.
Question put and agreed to.