John Healey
Main Page: John Healey (Labour - Rawmarsh and Conisbrough)Department Debates - View all John Healey's debates with the Ministry of Defence
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Ian Sollom (St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
May I start by condemning the reckless Russian drone strike on Romania early on Friday morning? We stand with Romania and all our NATO allies. I have commissioned UK options for contributing to any NATO-led actions to strengthen Romania, should that be required.
The previous Government left forces recruitment and retention in crisis. They set and missed targets every year for 14 years. We are renewing the nation’s commitment to those who serve through the biggest pay rise for over 20 years, free childcare for forces families across the UK, and the biggest upgrade to forces housing in a generation. Armed forces numbers are now growing; that is part of the transformation of defence through the defence investment plan, which, I can tell the House, the Prime Minister is determined to publish before the NATO summit.
Ian Sollom
I thank the Minister for his answer—[Interruption.]
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman is right. Recruitment to our forces has for too long been beset by delays. There is no shortage of young people who want to join the forces, but those delays have led to a large majority of them going off and doing other things. He will have seen that we have changed the regulations, which often restricted recruitment and were barriers to young people joining. He will have seen that we have introduced direct entry for cyber recruitment, and that we are set to put in place a new contract next year for the first ever tri-nation recruitment. That will speed up recruitment and make it more efficient.
Fred Thomas (Plymouth Moor View) (Lab)
In all the years that I served as a regular in the military, the continuous attitude survey showed that morale was dropping year on year. Since Labour has come into government, that has reversed; the continuous attitude survey is at last going in the right direction under this leadership. Can the Secretary of State explain why that is?
John Healey
There is a serious point behind my hon. Friend’s question. Armed forces numbers are growing. We have turned the corner on recruitment and on morale, as he says, and satisfaction, in particular with military homes, has risen 12% in the last year. This Government are on the side of our forces and their families. This is a Government delivering for defence, and delivering for our armed forces.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
May I begin by saying that we Conservative Members stand four-square with the Government on their response to Romania? It is a NATO ally, and it deserves our support.
While overall trends in recruitment and retention may have stabilised, there is still a serious problem of personnel leaving the special forces. We know from the personal accounts of former Special Air Service commanders that this is due in no small part to the Government’s facilitation of lawfare against their comrades who served in Northern Ireland. To aid retention, what is the Secretary of State’s personal response to the three special forces regimental associations that publicly warned him in late April that
“The egregious mistreatment of veterans and the ongoing infringement of their rights has to end”?
John Healey
I simply do not recognise the right hon. Gentleman’s description. The discussions that I, the Minister for the Armed Forces and military leaders have had with the regimental associations have dealt with their concerns, in particular with the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill. We are set to make significant amendments that reflect their concerns. On the position that he describes regarding recruitment and retention, there is no shortage of volunteers for training, and the proportion of those applying to the Paras rose by a quarter in the last year.
Mr Francois
The Secretary of State said he did not recognise “my” description. It is not mine. It is in a statement of 22 April from the three special forces regimental associations. Those are not my words; they are theirs. I will ask him again. If we are to persuade people to continue serving their King and country in uniform in very high-threat situations, we need to address these legitimate concerns. For months now, the Government have been promising to table amendments to their benighted troubles Bill to provide additional protections for veterans, but as with the defence investment plan, we are still waiting for Godot. When exactly will those long-promised amendments be published, and by which Minister?
John Healey
It will be before the Bill is due for its next stage in Parliament, which is Committee stage in this House.
Sir Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
Russia poses a significant and persistent threat to UK and Atlantic security. Putin’s illegal war against Ukraine is now in its fifth year, and Russia conducts hostile cyber-activity, spreads disinformation and carries out sabotage against the UK and many other NATO allies almost daily. European security starts in Ukraine. In response to the recent brutal Russian attacks on Ukraine, I directed UK deliveries of air defence systems to Ukraine to be accelerated. This month, I will chair the next meeting of the 50-nation-strong Ukraine Defence Contact Group at NATO headquarters, at which we will look to further step up the military aid we can provide together.
Mr Rand
This Government have rightly increased military support to Ukraine to its highest ever level. That is vital not just for Ukraine’s security, but for ours. Our leadership on this issue places us in the firing line of an increasingly desperate Putin. With the stark warning from GCHQ last week that our nation is being relentlessly targeted by Russian aggression, does the Secretary of State agree that as well as rightly increasing defence spending, we must unite against Russia by seeking a closer relationship with our most important and reliable allies in the European Union?
John Healey
I agree with my hon. Friend that we are right to seek a closer relationship with the European Union, which has an important contribution to make, from within a “NATO first” framework. That is why, last year, we signed the security and defence partnership with the European Union. The Prime Minister has said that we are looking to join the European Union’s Ukraine loan scheme, so that we can provide more aid to Ukraine, backed by the very best British companies, producing the best British kit for Ukrainian warfighters.
Gordon McKee
My hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale West (Mr Rand) mentioned the annual lecture delivered by the GCHQ director last week, which is important, and we should all reflect on the comments about Russia’s hybrid warfare. It is well established among security experts that Russia is conducting this kind of hybrid warfare, but that is not well understood by the general public. That is a problem, because deterring the attacks requires significant investment and inevitably, at some point, trade-offs. Will the Secretary of State produce a strategy internally—or increase its urgency, if it exists—for communicating the scale of Russian hybrid warfare against the United Kingdom?
John Healey
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. We are doing more to expose the threats, and will do more still. The Russian threat against the UK is real and rising, and it is important for the public and Parliament to understand that. That is why I revealed last year that the Russian spy ship Yantar was monitoring our critical national undersea infrastructure, and that is why I exposed the month-long covert Russian submarine programme in and near UK waters. I say to Putin: we see you; we will expose you; and we will not stand for you targeting the UK.
David Reed (Exmouth and Exeter East) (Con)
This morning, France once again demonstrated that seizing sanctioned Russian shadow fleet vessels in international waters is both legal and achievable. In contrast, although the Prime Minister confirmed on 25 March that we have the legal basis to act in our own territorial waters, since that pledge, hundreds of vessels have passed through our waters unchallenged. Does the Secretary of State agree that this is deterrence in reverse? It is tough rhetoric, but no action. In Moscow, that gap between what Britain says and what Britain does will be read as exactly one thing: weakness.
John Healey
On the contrary, this is deterrence in action. I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman does not recognise that we supported the French operation and were proud to do so. Defence stands ready to lead on our own interdiction, but the impact of what we are ready to do, and what we have signalled to Putin, is that he is having to escort shadow shipping through the English channel with Russian warships, and the rest of his shadow fleet is often detouring right round the UK. We are disrupting his shadow fleet shipping, and are contributing to the fact that Russian oil revenues have fallen by a quarter in the last year.
David Reed
There is a chasm between supporting and leading. Is it not the case that the Attorney General—the same Attorney General who has no hesitation in hounding British veterans through the courts—has now decided that intercepting Russian shadow fleet tankers would breach maritime law? Our allies in Finland, Sweden and Estonia have no such hesitation. France and the United States have no such hesitation. Can the Secretary of State explain why the only person who seems determined to tie Britain’s hands is his Government’s chief legal officer?
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman is entirely wrong in his assertion and his facts. With the Attorney General, I led a meeting of the 10 joint expeditionary force nations’ legal military experts, in which we set out, discussed and shared the legal basis on which, individually and together, we can interdict and seize Russian shadow ships. We are ready to do so in support of our allies, as we have just supported France. Together, we are deterring Putin, and we are disrupting his shadow fleet operations.
James MacCleary (Lewes) (LD)
Last night, I returned from a week in Ukraine. I visited villages in Kherson, just tens of kilometres from the frontline, and saw the total devastation wrought by Russian forces. Every morning, we woke to reports that hundreds of drones had been destroyed overnight by the Ukrainian military. Ukraine is innovating under Russian fire. What steps are the Government taking to accelerate defence co-operation with Ukraine, so that our armed forces can rapidly learn from, develop and deploy the counter-drone capabilities needed for the wars of today and tomorrow, not yesterday?
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman makes a really important argument. It was captured in the strategic defence review, and has been put into practice since. Within the last two weeks, I was with our troops in Estonia, close to the Russian frontline, and I saw exactly how our UK forces, alongside the Estonians, are learning the lessons, and implementing some of the same tactics and technologies that we have been involved in supplying to Ukraine, and which the Ukrainians have demonstrated are combat fit.
Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst (Solihull West and Shirley) (Con)
Victoria Collins (Harpenden and Berkhamsted) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
This Government are making the biggest increase in defence investment since the end of the cold war. This year alone, we have more than £11 billion more in the defence budget than in the last year of the previous Government. As the Prime Minister said in February,
“we are going to have to spend more faster”,
and we will.
Wendy Chamberlain
Building our military capability is vital in this world of increasing instability, where Putin continues to wage war in Europe—as we have heard—and Trump rips up the alliances that once kept us safe. Investment in deterrence is far better than fighting a war unprepared. Getting UK businesses access to the Security Action for Europe programme is vital, so will the Secretary of State confirm whether talks have restarted with the EU in that regard, and if so, what progress has been made?
John Healey
As I mentioned in a previous answer, we are indeed looking to participate in, and be able to take advantage of, the European Union’s loan scheme for Ukraine. That is a way in which we could accelerate getting good kit into the hands of the Ukrainians and ensure that British-made kit and British firms can make a big contribution to that.
Victoria Collins
My constituent Fraser puts it best when he says,
“At a time when the world is increasingly dark and uncertain, and when the UK’s defence capability is well below the level required”,
defence bonds
“are surely one which would gain support across the political spectrum. I know that I would happily invest.”
With all of us in the United Kingdom paying the price every time we check out or pay a bill, the Liberal Democrat calls to issue £20 billion of defence bonds would mean an injection of funding in our security, but also in our economy, so what are the Government waiting for?
John Healey
I remember that for at least six months after the election, the hon. Lady and her party were urging us to raise defence spending to 2.5% of GDP by 2030. We have done better than that—we are hitting 2.6% next year, three years before anyone expected, including her party. We will go further, and I will look for her support when we do.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
Some hon. Members have advocated for defence bonds. As the Secretary of State will be aware, the Defence Committee has examined in detail various defence financing options, including a defence, security and resilience bank—the Canadians have stolen a march on us, even though the idea was developed by a former British Army officer. There are multilateral defence mechanisms, and other nations have opted for a loosening of the fiscal rules just for defence. Obviously, these are not either/or options, but given the increased threats and the level of volatility, we must accelerate investment in defence to 3% GDP spend in this Parliament. Given that context, what options and course of action are the Government pursuing? We cannot keep plodding along at the current pace; we must meet the moment.
John Healey
With all due respect—and I have a great deal of respect for my hon. Friend—the biggest increase in defence spending since the end of the cold war is hardly the plodding path he describes. I welcome his Committee’s inquiry into defence investment and its report. I know that Gordon Brown, the former Prime Minister who has been commissioned by the Prime Minister to look at multinational financing of security, will use that report as an important part of his work, which I welcome. My hon. Friend will be aware that the Prime Minister said in his Munich speech in February that
“We must build our hard power, because that is the currency of the age.”
We know that we must spend more faster, and we will.
Paul Waugh (Rochdale) (Lab/Co-op)
Emma Foody (Cramlington and Killingworth) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
With deep regret, I should inform the House that a training accident occurred in northern Iraq yesterday in which a member of service personnel from the British Army died. The family have been informed, and have asked for a period of grace before further details are released. I know that the thoughts of the House will be with the family and the unit at this desperately sad time.
In this era of growing threat, hard power and strong alliances help make Britain safer. At the weekend, I was at the Shangri-La summit in Singapore with United States Secretary of War Hegseth and Deputy Prime Minister Marles of Australia. Together, we announced the first ever AUKUS pillar II signature project; together, we are now producing the very highest technology sensors and weapon systems for our underwater drones. Together, we will get those capabilities into our warfighters’ hands before the end of next year.
Emma Foody
First, may I associate myself with the remarks of the Secretary of State?
The Veterans Minister recently joined me to meet several women veterans in my constituency, who spoke exceptionally powerfully about the specific challenges and barriers that they experienced in accessing appropriate support after leaving the armed forces. The VALOUR programme is incredibly welcome, but can the Secretary of State assure me that, as part of the second round of funding, he will look at how women veterans can access gender-informed services that reflect their particular needs and experiences?
John Healey
I can indeed. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s support for the successful Northumbria bid in the first round of the VALOUR funding, which will help cover her constituency. [Interruption.] Given that one in eight of our ex-forces personnel are female veterans, we will ensure that the veterans strategy reflects those concerns, and that any round 2 funding as a result of the new application for bids is recognised.
Mr Speaker
Order. I remind hon. Members not to walk in front of a Member when the Minister is answering their question. I call the shadow Secretary of State.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
I echo the Secretary of State on the sad news from Iraq and, on behalf of the Opposition, send condolences to the family concerned. It is very sad news indeed.
I have a simple question for the Secretary of State: has the Treasury signed off the defence investment plan?
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman may not have heard me when I answered before, but I can say to him very clearly that the Prime Minister is determined that we publish the defence investment plan before the NATO summit.
James Cartlidge
No wonder the defence investment plan is so late: the Labour Government still have not worked out how to pay for it. The good news is that others have. Lord Robertson, a former Labour Defence Secretary, has said:
“We cannot defend Britain with an ever-expanding welfare budget”,
and Tony Blair himself warned last week:
“By the end of this decade, we could be spending more on incapacity and disability benefits than on defence. No serious country can do that.”
Is not the truth that whoever becomes the next Labour Prime Minister must do one thing above all else to boost defence, and that is to cut welfare and spend the savings on the British armed forces?
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman has a brass neck. There is no recognition of the fact that we are increasing defence spending by a record amount since the end of the cold war, no recognition that this year the defence budget will be £11 billion greater than in his last year in government, and no recognition that there are contracts in place, including the AUKUS pillar II contract, that we have signed and that he did not sign when he was the Minister responsible.
Sarah Smith (Hyndburn) (Lab)
Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)
John Healey
First, we are directing defence investment first to British firms that increase British jobs and increase apprenticeships, skills and opportunities for young people. Secondly, we are opening up direct entry recruitment to the armed forces for those with cyber-skills, and the first cohort has already been recruited. They are deployed much more quickly than via the normal route, and the early reports from every one of their units is overwhelmingly positive, so we are now moving to recruit the second tranche.
Chris Coghlan (Dorking and Horley) (LD)
John Healey
We must spend more, we must spend faster—and we will, as the Prime Minister has said. On our nuclear deterrent, I am proud that this Government are putting £6 billion, in this Parliament, into increasing the productivity of our submarine building, to raise production levels and to increase the pace of submarine building in future.
John Whitby (Derbyshire Dales) (Lab)
Ian Roome (North Devon) (LD)
Following the recent challenges with deploying HMS Dragon to the middle east at short notice, will the defence readiness Bill, which was mentioned in the strategic defence review, urgently review how our Type 45 destroyers can be made more readily available to defend against aerial attacks?
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)
Freddie van Mierlo (Henley and Thame) (LD)
RAF Benson primary school in my constituency is struggling with a temporary reduction in its rolls as a result of the scrapping of the Puma fleet. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss how the school can continue to thrive into the future as we anticipate the new medium helicopter coming online?
Shockat Adam (Leicester South) (Ind)
Israel’s illegal invasion of Lebanon is continuing unabated. Millions have left their homes, and millions of refugees have fled to the north. It is happening all over again: people are suffering and civilians are dying. What is the Secretary of State doing to suspend all military co-operation with Israel so that it stops the Gazafication of Lebanon?
John Healey
We are urging both sides to scale down their activity and respect the ceasefire so that the current ceasefire agreement in the wider middle east can be translated into a permanent peace, including between Israel and the Lebanese Hezbollah.