Defence Reform

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 26th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

As with the £38 billion figure, the Government are very good at not explaining their mistakes. The original figure was, I think, £37 million. It then rose to £39 million, but the MOD subsequently briefed that it was £100 million. However, some informed sources say that it could be upwards of £250 million. The Government should state how much was spent in respect of that disastrous decision, which was taken at a time when the defence budget was experiencing savage cuts. They seem to have swept this matter aside, however, as if it is not important.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

The hon. Gentleman is right: £38 billion is a huge amount of money. However, I should draw his attention to a note entitled:

“Note to Ed Miliband: Defence team work update”.

It states that Labour needs to be

“credible on defence spending and neutralising the ‘£38bn’ charge, which is our biggest weakness.”

So the Labour Defence team think that that charge is Labour’s biggest weakness.

[Mr Jones]

The Minister is making various assumptions, which is not unusual for him. That note says precisely what I am saying today, which is that we need to shoot down this erroneous myth that has been put about by this Government. If he wants more evidence on this, he should read the National Audit Office “Major Projects Report 2009”. It says of the defence budget:

“The size of the gap is highly sensitive to the budget growth assumptions used. If the Defence budget remained constant in real terms, and using the Department’s forecast for defence inflation of 2.7 per cent, the gap would now be £6 billion over the ten years. If, as is possible given the general economic position, there was no increase in the defence budget in cash terms over the same ten year period, the gap would rise to £36 billion.”

Even the NAO did not reach the £38 billion figure, therefore. I acknowledge that the figure it gives is £2 billion out and this Government seem to think such sums are unimportant, but I have just quoted from the NAO report. That is possibly where Conservative central office first got the figure of £36 billion, but there is a big difference between £36 billion and £38 billion. The £36 billion is based on an assumption of a flat-cash budget over the next 10 years and every single item in the equipment budget being maintained, when everyone who has ever been involved in MOD matters knows that things come into the equipment budget and things fall out of the equipment budget.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

It has been a pleasure to listen to this evening’s debate on defence reform, in which hon. Members have spoken on a number of topics. Let me say at the outset that the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) posed some very pertinent questions to Government Front Benchers.

I am pleased that we are having this debate in the week before armed forces day because it gives us the opportunity to pause and reflect on the bravery of our forces and the sacrifices they make, as has been mentioned by my hon. Friends the Members for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) and for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) among others. Our forces do what is asked of them without question or hesitation and they often place their lives on the line to protect others. I am sure that the national event taking place in Plymouth this Saturday will be a great success. In West Dunbartonshire we celebrated armed forces day on Sunday past with a march-past in Dumbarton high street and a service in Riverside parish church.

There is no doubt that the armed forces will face challenges in the coming years, not least as part of the new employment model and the Future Force 2020 plan. Some 30,000 troops will have been removed by 2020. That will have an enormous impact on the UK’s capability, and clarity from Ministers on the decisions they have taken about future capability would be welcome. My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) made some excellent points about our maritime capability.

Recent reports have raised concerns that certain regiments are at risk of being scrapped. Belonging to a regiment is a very strong part of many soldiers’ identity. That is why the shadow Secretary of State launched our “Respect Our Regiments” campaign last month. I know that many Members are concerned about regiments and battalions being scrapped, including colleagues from Wales, Yorkshire, Scotland and Staffordshire. I apologise if I have missed anyone out. The Government intend to rely much more heavily on reservists in future, and the Minister knows I am concerned that he and the Government plan to scrap employment protections for reservists while asking for more from them.

[Mr Robathan]

indicated dissent.

[Gemma Doyle]

The Minister shakes his head but I raised this with him last year and again last week. I know he is going to write to me and I await that letter because our understanding of the situation differs.

Last year, we reached agreement across the House on the armed forces covenant. I will resist the temptation raised by the contribution of the hon. Member for Tamworth (Christopher Pincher). As he knows and as the record shows, his party and the Minister had to be dragged kicking and screaming into putting the provisions we now have in law into the Armed Forces Act 2011. Anyone can read the record of the Committee proceedings to see that that is correct. The hon. Gentleman’s recollection was frankly a little wobbly. The Minister knows that I do not think the armed forces covenant is yet being taken seriously enough across all of government and the public sector in accordance with the principles set down. I do not doubt his commitment but more work needs to be done to make sure that it is a reality and that it works in practice.

I want to raise the issue of discrimination towards our forces. This concern is highlighted in the recent report by Lord Ashcroft, “The Armed Forces and Society”, which states that one in five members of the forces reports have been refused service in a bar or hotel while wearing their uniform and that around the same number reports being verbally abused while wearing their uniform. That is clearly unacceptable discrimination and if we take the covenant seriously we should be looking at how to tackle such behaviour.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

May I say what a pleasure it is to agree with the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle) in rejecting any idea that Scotland would be better off independent, and how much stronger we are—both Scotland and the United Kingdom as a whole—as a Union?

Many of the contributions to the debate today show how wide and how deep the admiration and respect for our armed forces runs in the House, and that reflects the feelings across the country. We should not forget that the purpose of our armed forces is to succeed on operations, to protect our national security and to provide the ultimate guarantee of our country’s security and independence, as well as helping to project its values and interests abroad. In Afghanistan today, that is what our soldiers are doing, risking life and limb to keep us safe as we sit in comfort in Westminster.

Operations remain the No. 1 priority for the Ministry of Defence and we will do everything we can to achieve success not just in Afghanistan, but in standing operations around the world and in helping to deliver a safe and secure Olympics this summer. But to make sure that this success continues into the future, we have to make sure that our services are structured properly, that the equipment programme is funded and that the needs of our forces are looked after.

That is why the programme of implementing the SDSR is so necessary—putting the years of Labour mismanagement behind and sorting out the mess. Although it appears that the Opposition recognise the need for change, they still do not appear to understand why there is such a need for change. The shadow Secretary of State for Defence—I am sorry he is not here—has written:

“In beginning to develop future policy we have to be honest about the past.”

Today, not one Member on the Opposition Benches has been honest about the mistakes that the Opposition made in the past. Not one has said sorry—sorry for 12 years without a defence review, sorry for the £38 billion black hole in the budget—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) should stop digging. He has been digging quite enough today. Not one Opposition Member has said sorry for ducking the tough choice required to put our armed forces back on track.

I am afraid that in the limited time available I will not be able to address all the contributions to the debate. The right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) yet again made an impassioned case for RAF Leuchars. It remains our intention that the Army move to Leuchars and the RAF move to Lossiemouth. He asked some very detailed questions. Will he please take those up and I will make sure that my excellent civil servants in the Box bring them to the attention of the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff), who would be better at answering than I would be this evening?

[Sir Menzies Campbell]

The questions were rhetorical. The answer is yes in every case.

[Mr Robathan]

In which case I do not think my hon. Friend the Minister will be writing to the right hon. and learned Gentleman.

The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) made a point about the Nimrod MRA4. It was a procurement disaster. The aircraft were never in service and never flew in service. I say to the hon. Lady and to the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) that the Government value the Welsh regiments that she spoke about. I have Welsh antecedents. I had a great uncle killed in Gallipoli in the Welsh Regiment and other relatives in the Welsh regiments, so I can assure her that we value the Welsh regiments. I do not know what is in the report. We must wait until General Carter’s report is published, which it will be, shortly.

My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) drew attention to misleading statements on the naval base that she attributed to the Labour press office. If that is the case, it is regrettable. We have no intention whatsoever of closing the Portsmouth naval base.

The hon. Member for York Central (Hugh Bayley) raised an important point about audit, accountability and the need to reform NATO. I suggest that he takes that up—I am looking again at my excellent civil servants—with the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Mr Howarth), who is responsible for such matters, and I am sure that he will get back to him on that.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark Lancaster) for his sensible look at defence strategy and the future of the reserves. I am sure that we are looking forward to seeing him in uniform tomorrow as a serving officer. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) was keen to encourage the defence industry and exports. Three Defence Ministers spend their time going around areas trying to encourage defence exports. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was widely criticised, including by Labour Front-Bench spokesmen, when he tried to encourage exports to the middle east. I am very glad to have the hon. Lady’s support. She referred to the economic difficulties that the Government have got themselves into since 2010. I do not think so. I really do not think so.

My hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth (Christopher Pincher) made a good point about housing. We are working on banks and mortgages, as he asked, and BFPO addresses will now be accepted as proper addresses for security. I am very much looking forward to seeing my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) on armed forces day in Plymouth this weekend.

I must tell the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) that we are not making reductions in the armed forces out of callousness, but with huge regret, and it is painful to us. We are doing it because of the appalling financial situation that the Government received when they took office in 2010.

The hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire is not correct that there is any intention to reduce protection for employment of reservists deployed. I am delighted to hear her praying in aid again my noble Friend Lord Ashcroft. I have never heard praise from the Labour Benches for Lord Ashcroft before, but I am pleased to hear it now. Perhaps she will bring forward an analysis of discrimination. I draw her attention to a letter that has been sent to the shadow Defence Secretary from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, which says:

“I welcome the work conducted by Lord Ashcroft…I was reassured that that public support for our Armed Forces remains ‘very high’”.

He particularly says:

“I would welcome a discussion with you on how we can ensure that everything we do in Parliament emphasises our cross-party support for the Armed Forces and the people who serve in them.”

The Opposition probably rather regret calling this debate today. They have made themselves look somewhat foolish. While I remember, may I say how sorry I am to hear about the shadow Secretary of State’s relation in Australia? I understand that he is very ill and we wish him the very best in that illness, and I mean that sincerely. However, having been nice to the hon. Member for North Durham, let me say that he admitted that Labour was planning savings in restructuring the Army and then attacked us for doing just that. The Opposition remain in denial. They seem to say that everything was great in defence at the general election. It was not. As the shadow Secretary of State has identified, the Opposition’s greatest weakness remains the black hole that they left us. Today, the team has been revealed in all its glory. The Opposition have shown that they have no real defence policy. They have no answers to the problems in defence. They have no acceptance of the difficult position that we are in and no acceptance of the mess made by the Labour Government of the Government finances and of the defence budget.

In conclusion—

[Mr Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Question put accordingly (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the original words stand part of the Question.

Armed Forces Day

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 19th June 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

It is a joy to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, particularly since you are, of course, the chairman of the all-party group on the armed forces. I congratulate the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) on securing this debate to discuss Armed Forces day and on his speech. We have heard from several hon. Members—I shall come on to their individual speeches later—who have shown their support for the armed forces. We must remember that the fortitude of those who served in the past has shaped the armed forces of today.

Armed Forces day is a great opportunity for the nation to show its support for its regular and reserve forces. Importantly, it also allows us to show our appreciation for their families, who are such a vital part of our defence effort. It marks the contribution of former service personnel of all ages—from those who have recently left in their 20s to those who may be in their 90s, or indeed people in their late middle age, such as myself.

Last month, the armed forces mustered to mark the 60th anniversary of Her Majesty’s accession to the throne. Crowds gathered at Windsor and service personnel did themselves and their respective services proud. It felt like a sort of family occasion, and I felt both proud and privileged to be invited. I was slightly worried that the day would fall flat but, in the event, it was a brilliant occasion. Marching on sand is always difficult—there was sand in the arena—but the services did extremely well.

I pay particular tribute to the Royal Air Force, which led a brilliant and emotional fly-past. One has to be careful about what one says in the House, but despite the old joke that the Royal Air Force does not normally work at weekends, it was present at this Saturday event—I see a wry smile from a serving officer in the public gallery. I reiterate my appreciation of all three forces, but especially of the RAF, which led this excellent fly-past.

Two weeks ago, the armed forces were at the centre of the ceremonial procession for the service of thanksgiving, and they paid a tribute to Her Majesty on the forecourt of Buckingham palace and in the sky above. This weekend, the Queen’s birthday parade on Horse Guards parade took place—I am glad to say that it was dry. Again, I was privileged to be there, as I suspect were other hon. Members. Indeed, I am sure that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who is in the Chamber, was there. It was an excellent occasion and my old regiment performed especially well. The crowds in the Mall showed their appreciation to Her Majesty on her diamond jubilee, and to the armed forces that work with her so closely.

We all remember times not so long ago when members of the armed forces were actively discouraged from wearing their uniform in public and lived under constant threat from terrorism. Many of us used to search underneath our cars to establish whether it was safe for us and our families to travel in them. Such a practice was not unique to Northern Ireland; it was standard in all military communities. Thankfully, those days are behind us and, God willing, they will not return.

Public support has never been higher. For example, we have all been touched by the scenes at Royal Wootton Bassett. Who has not shed a tear seeing these brave young men coming back from Afghanistan in coffins? Members of the public have travelled great distances to attend the repatriations, and similar scenes continue today at RAF Brize Norton. Such respect is deeply appreciated by not only the families, but service personnel themselves. I have spoken with many of them in Afghanistan and at home, and they say that these events are of huge importance to them.

Public support is not limited to repatriation ceremonies. Today we see homecoming parades in which returning service personnel parade through local towns and villages. Thousands of members of the public line the streets to applaud their return and take the time to reflect on those who never made the journey back. In addition, military ships, regiments and units will often be granted freedom of the borough, which is also marked by a military procession through the streets of their home town. The unit 3 Rifles exercised such freedom in the constituency of the hon. Member for Stockton North. Last year, I went to Market Harborough to celebrate the freedom of the borough being awarded to the Royal Anglians. Today we have a march into the House of Commons, which people should see because it is a much appreciated ceremony.

Before turning to the matter of Armed Forces day, I would like to make a brief mention of that other notable annual event—the 11th day of the 11th month marking Armistice day. It is heartening to see that this event continues to gain in stature and significance as each year passes. The two-minute silence is one of those rare moments when the nation pauses to reflect on those who have made the ultimate sacrifice to allow us the freedoms that we enjoy today.

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

Will the Minister say when the Government will set out their plans for marking the 100th anniversary of the start of the first world war?

[Mr Robathan]

I am happy to give the hon. Gentleman an answer on that score. We have been working hard on those plans; indeed, I spoke to my French counterpart earlier this month about exactly that. Of course the French are particularly concerned about the great war, as it was fought over their soil, so we are working with them. My hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison), as the Prime Minister’s representative, is going around the Commonwealth and the allied nations to see how we should mark the anniversary in two years’ time. There are no surviving service personnel from the first world war, but its memory is deeply etched in our regimental traditions and in the psyche of Britain and other nations. It is important that we commemorate—not celebrate—the first world war with the right level of remembrance, that we understand the awfulness of it and the impact it had on 20th century history, and that we educate the young people of this country to understand what it was about and the effects it had. I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are taking the matter seriously, not least because people such as him will harass us if we do not.

Armed Forces day is a celebration of the unique contribution that committed servicemen and women continue to make to the nation. It has become a valuable occasion in the last few years, although this year marks only the fourth Armed Forces day. The first time such a format was adopted was in 2006, when Veterans day was initiated—I am not sure whether the hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) was responsible for that. The day sought to raise the public profile of veterans and the support available for that diverse community. There was a series of events throughout the country, including one at the Imperial War museum. The following year, an event in Birmingham included a parade of standards, and Blackpool had its turn in 2008. However, it was thought that more could be done, because Veterans day did not seem to reflect the fact that current service personnel were deployed in the most demanding area of conflict. The previous Administration commissioned an inquiry into the national recognition of our armed forces that led to measures to highlight the contribution of all those who serve and have served in the armed forces. One measure was to expand Veterans day to a more inclusive Armed Forces day, and the strap line “Show your support” was printed on flags that were flown on all Government buildings and town halls on 25 June 2009. A national event took place in the Historic Dockyard in Chatham the following day. Members of the reserve forces were invited to wear their uniform to work, as will be the case next week, and former service personnel were encouraged to wear a veterans’ badge. In addition, local communities held their own Armed Forces day events. The Yorkshire Regiment marched through Stockton and received the freedom of the borough.

In 2010, the celebrations took place on 26 June with the national event being hosted by Cardiff. That built on the success of the previous year, with some 260,000 fans being recorded on a dedicated Facebook page and Armed Forces day getting almost 1,300 followers on Twitter. The fly-the-flag initiative continued to expand and, once again, wearing uniform to work was encouraged. That year more than 170 registered events were held to mark the occasion throughout the country.

In 2011, Armed Forces day was hosted in Edinburgh. There were some 1 million followers on Facebook. I am not a devotee of either Facebook or Twitter—I see the shock on the faces of several hon. Members—but I do vaguely know what they are. As a matter of interest, some 72 celebrity supporters provided messages and videos of support for the Armed Forces day website, which had more than 41,000 visits on the day and more than 142,000 page views.

As we have heard, Plymouth, a city with a rich military history, will be acting as host city on 30 June. Activities are planned up and down the country for schools, cadet forces and veterans’ organisations. Uniform-to-work day is planned for 27 June, which will highlight once again the vital contribution our reservists make to the armed forces. Naturally, the armed forces themselves will be taking part in Plymouth and elsewhere. Once again, this will be an opportunity to celebrate their vital and wide-ranging contribution to our nation.

Armed Forces day allows communities to come together and plan their own events to show their support. Sometimes they are social occasions in a village hall or a community centre, or they can be something involving “Star Wars”—I am not sure what that is exactly. Other Members also look slightly puzzled, but we shall see in a couple of weeks. An occasion does not always have to be formal, with service personnel in uniform, for it to be successful. I know that service personnel welcome the personal tribute as a sign of appreciation. On this day, they want to be shown that they are special because of the work that they do.

Of course, our armed forces are busy on operations in Afghanistan and elsewhere. They will form a notable presence to support a number of diamond jubilee events as part of Her Majesty the Queen’s regional tours. Their support during the Olympic games will be an important defence task this summer, and we are contributing a large number of personnel—mostly regulars, but some reservists—to provide support to the police, and other civil and Olympic authorities.

The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) talked about the reorganisation of the Army but, if she will forgive me, I will not go into the details of that because a decision is yet to be made and it would therefore be inappropriate for me to speculate about what the announcement might contain. I genuinely do not know what it will say about individual units, and I think that we all understand the importance that individual units can have, particularly in local traditions.

The very basis of the armed forces covenant is to remove any disadvantage incurred as a result of service. It acknowledges that the armed forces community is entitled to recognition for the unique contribution it makes on behalf of this country.

A few things that I shall now discuss were mentioned by Opposition Members. We are working on a defence discount scheme to help to provide special offers and discounts to members of the armed forces when purchasing goods and services, and I will update the House on the scheme shortly. In addition, many businesses provide concessions to servicemen and ex-service personnel. The “tickets for troops” initiative allows service personnel and their families to attend sporting fixtures and film premieres free of charge. The covenant sets out the principle that those who serve or have served in the armed forces, as well as their families, should face no disadvantage compared with other citizens regarding the provision of public and commercial services, and that special consideration is appropriate in some cases, especially for those people who have given the most, such as the injured and the bereaved.

The interim annual report on the armed forces covenant, which was published last year, was written in conjunction with our key partner charities, the families federations, other Departments and the devolved Administrations, all of which are members of the covenant reference group. The report highlighted progress across a range of areas and identified work still to be done. Such work has to evolve, because times and conditions change.

My hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) made a good speech in which he raised several issues related to the covenant, particularly schooling. We are determined that when service personnel move around the country or come back from abroad, their family members will not be disadvantaged in schools, and that is specifically written into the covenant. That involves co-operation with teachers and schools, although we do not necessarily want the heavy hand of the state banging down on a primary head teacher who is struggling with a lot of other problems. We are determined that children and families should not be disadvantaged because of service elsewhere.

My hon. Friend also mentioned the pupil premium. The idea of the premium, which we introduced, is to compensate for movement. There are other ways in which we will support the children of service personnel who have been killed in combat, so I am not sure that the pupil premium is the right way forward on that point. There are, for instance, scholarships for the children of those who have been killed in service.

My hon. Friend talked about reservists’ mental health, and I can assure him that we are very concerned about that because if reservists disappear back into the general population, it is more difficult to get hold of them. He also mentioned employment. Not all, but most people who leave the armed forces are very employable, and I would encourage any employer to look favourably on them because I think that they would find that they, not just the person they took on, would gain from that.

Discrimination has been mentioned, and I was delighted to hear Labour Members describing Lord Ashcroft as an exemplar that they wish to follow, because it is fair to say that that has not always been the case over the past few years. For 18 years, I had the privilege of being proud to wear Her Majesty’s uniform. There was discrimination, but one was proud to wear one’s uniform, although, as I have mentioned, one tended not to wear it out of barracks. I recall going to a club called Joe Bananas in the Wan Chai area of Hong Kong—I see one or two Opposition Members with guilty faces; they have obviously been there as well—and there was a sign that I think said “No troops”. It was just down the road from the royal naval base, HMS Tamar. I and my two colleagues—all of us company commanders—remonstrated with the very large bouncer on the door about that, and he let us in. Such signs are not that different from others that were put up in windows in the past, which we have now outlawed.

I am glad that attitudes are now rather better—not that I have been to Joe Bananas in the past 25 years—but they are not perfect. The covenant tackles genuine problems that have been raised. I am rather sceptical about whether legislation is needed, but I am happy to talk about it. The sort of discrimination that has often hit the headlines has been, for instance, “Officer training course banned from freshers fair at university”, or “Uniform forbidden in student unions”—or indeed in schools, because some teachers object to it. Perhaps the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle) will pass on to the right hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy) that I seem to remember National Union of Students motions about getting troops out of Northern Ireland. Such motions were pretty unfriendly to the armed forces, so I am glad that that attitude has changed—[Interruption.] The right hon. Member for East Renfrewshire was a president of the NUS, as I am sure the hon. Lady remembers. We need to be careful before we create more work for lawyers. We need to consider whether the best way forward is to introduce legislation, or whether we need to work further on attitudes, although they have changed dramatically over the past few years, as we have heard.

[Mrs Moon]

The right hon. Gentleman referred to the troops out of Northern Ireland campaign—I remember it well—but we have an ongoing problem with differentiation. We had it with Iraq. Many people were unhappy about the involvement of our armed forces there, just as there were people who were unhappy with our forces being in Northern Ireland, but it was not the armed forces they objected to, but our political decisions. We must be careful to differentiate between the political decisions that lead the armed forces to carry through our wishes, and the armed forces themselves. These are attacks not on the forces but on the political decisions, and I hope that the right hon. Gentleman does not object to my making that differentiation.

[Mr Robathan]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. That is the right differentiation, and it is particularly true for Afghanistan. Polls show that a large proportion of the population perhaps opposes our involvement in Afghanistan, yet at the same time supports our troops there. That is an important distinction. There has been a change in attitude because, if we go back 30 years, that was not the case in Northern Ireland. Our troops there took a lot of individual abuse—I know that to be the case. The hon. Lady is right to raise this important distinction, and I applaud that. It is not our soldiers’ fault that they are in Afghanistan; it is because they are following the will of the Government and of Parliament.

It is important to recognise that we as a Government cannot do everything. The hon. Member for Stockton North talked about the community covenant. The covenant was launched by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister last year in Oxfordshire and is hugely popular. There are now some 50 community covenants, with another 50 pending, and I will be at Westminster council next week to witness the signing of the covenant there. Covenants are voluntary statements of mutual support between a civilian community and the local armed forces community, in the form of a written pledge. Usually, such local partnerships are made between the armed forces in an area and the local authority, being joined by local businesses, organisations, charities and other public bodies. I understand that the lord mayor of Plymouth will, on behalf of the city council, sign the area’s community covenant during the national event.

To turn to redundancy and pensions, may I say that making members of the armed forces redundant is not anything that we as a Government or I as an individual would wish to do? The redundancy terms are actually quite good. The hon. Member for Strangford mentioned the 18-year period. Soldiers normally have to serve for 22 years before they qualify for an immediate pension, but the redundancy scheme has reduced that by four years so that after 18 years of service, those selected for redundancy can qualify for an immediate pension. That will enable many individuals to receive an immediate income for which they would otherwise not have qualified. I am afraid that there always has to be a cut-off date. We have shifted it by four years, as I understand it, but unfortunately there has to be a cut-off date at some time.

[Jim Shannon]

Through the armed forces parliamentary scheme, I had the opportunity in the past few weeks to visit Cyprus, where I met some soldiers who are facing redundancy and, as a result, losing out on their pension. I am really asking the Minister whether there can be a bit of flexibility in the system to enable people to stay on for another six months so that they can qualify for the full pension.

[Mr Robathan]

The problem, as I have said, is that there always has to be a cut-off. We have shifted the date by four years—that was done by the services—which is a sensible allowance. Otherwise, we would have to allow everybody to serve up to the qualifying period. Redundancy is not something we wish to do. We are faced with a very difficult situation—I will not make any partisan points—and we cannot afford the level of defence spending that we had. Regrettably, we therefore have had to instigate redundancies, but I should say that the redundancy terms are pretty good. More than two thirds of those in the armed forces who are being made redundant are doing so voluntarily because they can see that such good terms will allow them to pursue another career. Everybody has to pursue another career in the long term, even me—I had to come into Parliament because I needed a job. Everybody has to leave the armed forces at some stage.

The hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire asked about other vacancies in the armed forces. I would be grateful if she would table a parliamentary question about that so that I can give a specific answer with the assistance of my excellent civil servants. I will need to write to her about the issue she raised about the guarantee of employment that we give to reservists. I promise her that it is not our intention to disadvantage reservists in any way; if that is the case, we will make sure that we do not do it.

May I say how much I appreciated—I do not often say this—the point made by the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) about valued national institutions? This is one I think a great many people believe in. I would still recommend a career in the armed forces to anybody. My son, who is 15, surprised me recently by saying that he wanted to join the Army—his mother said, “Over my dead body,” but we shall see. This is something that we should encourage.

[Mrs Moon]

Youngsters in cadet forces in my constituency who were planning careers in the armed forces have raised with me the uncertainty that they feel. They particularly feel uncertainty in relation to the RAF, in which I take a particular interest. A number of youngsters were days away from completing their training when they were made redundant. We have to ensure that this round of redundancies, particularly those involving youngsters who have lost early commissions, does not leave young people who are about to enter the armed forces with the feeling that they might not be able to have a lasting career and complete the service that they so wish to offer their country.

[Mr Robathan]

The hon. Lady speaks with passion. Each individual case can be a matter of great pain for the individual concerned, so I entirely take her view. The problem is that if we are reducing the armed forces—frankly, that is not what we want to do, but we are compelled and constrained so to do—there will be fewer opportunities, so some people, I regret to say, will have to be made redundant or will not be given the job that they would wish to do.

Nevertheless, I still maintain that joining the armed forces is an excellent career and I wish everybody the best opportunity. It is true that a lot of people who wish to get into the armed forces now cannot do so, whereas not so long ago, when the economic situation was more buoyant, we were frankly a bit short of recruits. In many ways, although it is unfortunate for those who cannot get in, we are in a fortunate position in that we can pick and choose more than before. As I said earlier, it is important that people can learn valuable things, such as attitudes, values and skills.

The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde mentioned replacement medals. If he would like to grab me, I will be happy to talk that through with him. He raises an issue, but it is one with two sides, as most issues are.

Our armed forces want and deserve to be valued. Not everybody in the armed forces is perfect, but they do an excellent job on our behalf. They do not want to be patronised. Most of them are high-quality individuals who can make their way in life, and they do not want to be talked down to; they want to be given opportunities, not to be discriminated against, and to carry on their lives in the best possible way. They deserve our support and recognition because of their outstanding contribution to this country. They make personal sacrifices to defend the United Kingdom and its interests, and they contribute to international peace and security.

A wide range of support and advice is already available from the Government, ex-service organisation charities and the voluntary sector. We are unwavering in our commitment to ensure that our armed forces and their families are not disadvantaged by service, and we will continue to raise awareness of the role of the armed forces in society. I urge all hon. Members and all members of society to show their support on Armed Forces day and to make it the success that service personnel, their families and ex-service personnel so richly deserve.

[Mr James Gray (in the Chair)]

I thank hon. Members for an excellent debate, and may I remind everybody that at 3.30 pm we will have the opportunity of welcoming 20th Armoured Brigade through the gates of Parliament?

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Monday 11th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

17. What his policy is on pensions for war widows.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

War widows have our deepest respect for their loss. War widows today span the generations, from those who have lost their husbands in world war two through to those who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would like to take the opportunity to pay tribute to the work of the War Widows’ Association, whose tireless help and support is invaluable. Payments are made through either the armed forces compensation scheme or the former war pensions scheme. In addition, pensions may be paid through one of the occupational armed forces pension schemes.

[Richard Graham]

I am grateful to the Minister for his reply. My constituent, Iris Thorogood, is an 85-year-old former chairman of the War Widows’ Association, an organisation founded in 1971, at a time when war widows received very little by way of a pension. I am sure that Iris, and indeed the War Widows’ Association, would appreciate confirmation from him that, contrary to some rumours being peddled, war widows have received the full increase of 5.2% this year, in line with disability benefit, and will continue to do so?

[Mr Robathan]

First, I pay tribute to Mrs Thorogood and reassure her about the 5.2% uprating of her pension, in line with the Department for Work and Pensions disability benefit. I was very surprised at the recent comments by the shadow Defence Secretary about

“veterans’ and war widows’ pensions being frozen year-on-year.”—[Official Report, 14 May 2012; Vol. 545, c. 265.]

That is completely incorrect, and it is a pity that he does not know a little bit more and is not a little bit better informed of such important issues in his brief.

[Jason McCartney]

Given the unveiling of the Royal Air Force Bomber Command memorial later this month to remember the 55,000 airmen who died during the second world war, does the Minister agree that when we are talking about war widows’ pensions, we must give accurate information and not engage in the skulduggery of misleading people about this?

[Mr Robathan]

I certainly do, as I believe I have already made clear. I am proud to be an honorary member of the Bomber Command Association, and I look forward to the opening of that memorial at the end of June. We need to remember the debt that we owe to those 55,000 people from Bomber Command who died and to all the others who died in the second world war, as well as to their dependants and their surviving widows.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

6. What recent assessment he has made of the UK’s maritime surveillance capability.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

9. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government on access to social housing for former members of the armed forces.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I regularly speak with the Minister for Housing and Local Government and raise such issues as are necessary. My hon. Friend will be aware of the consultation recently undertaken by the Housing Minister on what more can be done, and particularly on statutory guidance on giving precedence in social housing lists to service personnel with local connections when they leave the services.

[David Mowat]

The Minister will be aware of the recent changes to the housing allowance, which mean that those aged between 25 and 35 will have to share. Exemptions have been announced for those living in homeless hostels and for certain offenders. Will the Government consider also exempting servicemen returning from active duty, particularly those who may be at risk of redundancy?

[Mr Robathan]

My hon. Friend will know that Lancashire county council’s Councillor France has expressed his concern, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for also doing so. We obviously always keep an eye on the matter, but the changes to the shared accommodation rate were discussed between Ministry of Defence officials and Department for Communities and Local Government officials prior to the announcement in June 2010. We will take a look at how we can best serve our personnel, but those who are exempted are those who are considered to be in difficult circumstances, such as people leaving prison. I do not think our personnel leaving the armed forces should be equated with, for instance, those leaving prison.

[Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister also has responsibility for forces accommodation. The Government recently announced that they would be giving an extra £100 billion, but they forgot to inform the public that they were taking away £141 million. Armed forces accommodation is the largest single issue raised in complaints to the authorities. What will the Minister do to address the sorry state of some of our armed forces accommodation?

[Mr Robathan]

First, I should say that we announced £100 million extra, not £100 billion, for accommodation?

The hon. Gentleman is quite right, but there has been no hiding the fact that we have had a three-year pause in the amount that we have put into forces accommodation. He will know why—we inherited the most ghastly financial situation. I have talked the matter through with the families federations, and they understand that times are very hard. If he does not understand that, he should read the newspapers.

[Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

May I remind the Minister of the armed forces covenant in respect of housing? In his discussions with his colleagues in the Department for Communities and Local Government has he been advised of when the mandatory guidance will be issued to councils on that matter? Will there be more money in significant areas of garrison towns?

[Mr Robathan]

We are discussing the matter. I am not sure that mandatory guidance will be given, but there will be guidance on giving preference to those leaving the armed forces. We are very concerned about the matter, and we are continuing to uprate kitchens, bathrooms and so on with the money that we are spending. I know that the hon. Gentleman is as well aware as I am of the difficult situation in which we find ourselves.

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

I want to raise an issue about housing on which I am sure there will be all-party consensus. Recent research by Lord Ashcroft showed that a third of junior ranks in the Army and more than a quarter of those from the armed forces who have applied have been refused a mortgage, loan or credit card in the past five years. Although individual circumstances can always lead to a refusal, that number is far too high. Will the Minister agree to cross-party talks, involving service charities and the military, on how to deal with this and other issues of discrimination raised in the report?

[Mr Robathan]

Of course, I am very happy to indulge in cross-party talks on such matters. I talk to service charities the whole time about them. For instance, the right hon. Gentleman talks about mortgages being refused, but that is one thing that we have put right. Although I am not blaming the previous Government in particular, it is a fact that British Forces Post Office addresses were not accepted by mortgage companies. We have now said that they are to be accepted—[Interruption.] I hear the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) saying from a sedentary position that that is not true, but that was what I was told by all the service charities and servicemen to whom I spoke.

[Mr Jim Murphy]

For the purpose of this question, I shall set aside the partisanship and ask the Minister about the issue again. When one in five members of our forces is shouted at in the street and almost as many are refused service in a pub, hotel or elsewhere, we must all go further. There are sensible examples of legal protections for other specific groups that go much further than the military covenant to protect against discrimination, harassment or abuse. In the light of the research, in the build-up to Armed Forces day and as part of these indulged in—or indulgent—all-party talks, will the Minister consider new legal protections for those who keep our country safe?

[Mr Speaker]

The Minister should make particular reference to access to social housing.

[Mr Robathan]

I hear your strictures, Mr Speaker. I am not sure whether new laws are required. What is required is a greater respect for our armed forces and the truth is that most people in this country view our armed forces with great pride, which the four out of five people who are not subject to any form of abuse will recognise. Now, I notice people wearing uniform in the streets much more often, for instance. Once upon a time, that was actively discouraged because one did get abuse, typically from long-haired left-wing students, but that was just when I was young.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

On the question of social housing, a problem that has come up in my constituency is what happens when someone who has been in the armed forces returns to an area from which they have been away. They want social housing, but the local council has a regulation that people cannot get such housing unless they have been there in the past year. Is that something we can put right?

[Mr Robathan]

It is, and that is what my right hon. Friend the Minister for Housing and Local Government is talking about. When someone has been away for 10 years —perhaps they have been abroad, serving in Germany with the Army—they should have the opportunity to register for a house and to get precedence in the area where they lived for all their life before joining the armed forces to serve their country.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Birmingham city council was probably the first specifically to ring-fence new social housing provisions for ex-members of the armed forces. Is the Minister aware of any other councils in the west midlands following suit, as, although what Birmingham does is magnificent, it is not sufficient?

[Mr Robathan]

Here I call on the help of my civil servants, because I am not aware of any other councils in the west midlands following suit. I applaud Birmingham city council—under, I think, Conservative administration —for putting this to one side—[Interruption.] Then under Conservative administration. I applaud the council and, as the hon. Lady will know, we are encouraging the community covenants that lead to such activities.

[Mr Speaker]

I am sure that the Minister will write to the hon. Lady with further and better particulars when he has consulted his officials.

[Mr Robathan]

Of course.

[Mr Speaker]

We are grateful to the Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I bring to the attention of the Secretary of State the comments of the head of Army manning, who said that the 4,100 soldiers, sailors airmen and women facing redundancy this week should transfer to vacancies in the Army, Navy or Air Force? Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate how angry this comment has made those who are being rewarded for their years of service with a P45, and can he confirm how many vacancies are currently available?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I have read the article by the head of Army manning, and I am surprised at the newspapers’ interpretation of it. I recommend that the hon. Lady also reads it.

Those people who are being made redundant and who wish to apply for another job are, of course, encouraged so to do, be it in the Army, the Air Force or the Royal Navy. When I served in the Army, there were people from the Air Force and from the Navy who had transferred and joined—and some from the foreign legion as well.

[Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)]

T2. I welcome the MOD’s recent award of a £350 million contract to maintain the Royal Air Force’s Hercules aircraft, which will sustain 500 UK jobs. Can the Minister say what other steps are being taken to support the UK defence industry?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the relevant Minister tell me what will happen to Fijians and other Commonwealth citizens serving in Scottish regiments, and indeed to the Scottish regiments themselves, in the event of separation?

[Mr Robathan]

The hon. Gentleman asks a very good hypothetical question to which I do not have an answer, but I very much hope that the good people of Scotland will show some sense in a referendum.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

T6. May I welcome the arrival of the new C-17 aircraft, which plays a vital role in transporting our troops and our equipment, and ask the Secretary of State to add to that?

--- Later in debate ---

[James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)]

T7. Encouraging strong leadership in our armed forces is vital to the development of an agile fighting force, so will the Secretary of State join me in welcoming the recent appointments of Commander Sarah West and Commander Sue Moore, both of which are major milestones demonstrating the achievements of women in the armed forces?

[Mr Robathan]

The House will know that Commander West has been appointed as the first woman commander of a major warship, HMS Portland, and that Commander Moore has become the first woman to command 1st Patrol Boat Squadron. Both appointments were made entirely on merit, and they are very well deserved. I think that the whole House would wish to congratulate those two women and all others who come into such positions of authority.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

In response to my earlier question about the closure of BAE Systems on Scotswood road, the Minister seemed to prefer to criticise BAE Systems, and therefore some of my constituents, than to answer my request for a meeting to see whether we could find a way to save these jobs.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con)]

The cadet forces provide great opportunities for young people to train in teamwork, leadership and discipline. I very much enjoyed being a cadet when I was at school. What is the Department doing to ensure that more young people avail themselves of those wonderful opportunities?

[Mr Robathan]

We are very keen to encourage more cadet forces. Indeed, I had a joint conference with the schools commissioner at the end of April on this matter. We are pushing it forward and will find the resources. I am delighted that my hon. Friend gained from the cadet experience and learned about things such as integrity, teamwork and leadership. I, too, was a cadet, but I will leave it to the House to determine whether my character improved.

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

Given that the Government are proceeding with the short take-off and vertical landing variant of the joint strike fighter, will the Secretary of State say when a decision will be made about the basing of that aircraft? Does he agree that RAF Marham would be an ideal location because of its engineering facilities and its proximity to the US base at Lakenheath?

[Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)]

In the United States, the rate of suicides by active military personnel is almost one per day, which is higher than the rate of combat casualties. What are the equivalent figures for the three UK armed services?

[Mr Robathan]

Any suicide is a tragedy. The UK has much lower rates of suicide in the armed forces than the US. Research is being done on the matter as we speak, in particular by Professor Simon Wessely of King’s College hospital. Although we remain concerned, for people over 25, service in the armed forces means, curiously, that one is less likely to commit suicide than others. I am happy to discuss the matter further with the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, Mr Duncan Hames.

Service Complaints Commissioner (Fourth Annual Report)

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 24th May 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I am pleased to publish today the MOD’s formal response to the Service Complaints Commissioner’s (SCC) fourth annual report on the fairness, effectiveness and efficiency of the service complaints system. A copy will be placed in the Library of the House.

The formal response sets out the work undertaken by MOD and the services in 2011, and the further work planned to review the service complaints process, including as part of that work consideration of recommendations made by the SCC in her 2010 and 2011 reports which fall within the scope of the review.

MOD and the services are committed to ensuring members of the armed forces and their families have a complaints system which is fair, effective and efficient and is one in which they can have confidence. We have made good progress and will continue to learn from our experiences of the process and identify where and how we can make further improvements to the manner in which we handle complaints.

Findings of Squirrel HT2 ZJ 247 Board of Inquiry

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 10th May 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I wish to inform the House today of the findings of the Army board of inquiry into the accident involving Squirrel ZJ 247 on 29 May 2008.

The purpose of the board of inquiry is to establish the circumstances of the loss and to learn lessons from it; it does not seek to apportion blame.

The board of inquiry was initially convened on 30 May 2008, but was dissolved on 25 July 2008 to ensure the independence of the board of inquiry. The responsibility for the inquiry was, therefore, removed from the training chain of command and was convened by the Commander Joint Helicopter Command on 28 July 2008.

At approximately 1538 hours on Thursday 29 May 2008, Squirrel helicopters HT2 ZJ 247, operating as one of a pair of aircraft during a training sortie, struck a set of three 33 kilo volt wires strung across the Kingscott valley, Devon. The aircraft was seen by the crew of the other Squirrel, and one eye-witness on the ground, to fall through a tree canopy onto the ground. Sadly, the two aircrew lost their lives. Our deepest sympathies remain with the families of those servicemen.

Following extensive investigation, the board concluded the accident was caused by Squirrel ZJ 247 striking the Kingscott valley wires. Contributory factors included the general lack of wire awareness, course details and maps providing little information of the wires within Kingscott valley, a lack of clarity of duties, tasks and responsibilities, and induction training and mentoring elements of qualified helicopter instructor training.

A redacted copy of the board of inquiry is being placed in the Library of the House and on the Ministry of Defence website on the conclusion of the inquest into the deaths of the aircrew. We have been as open as possible and have carefully considered the public interest arguments both for and against disclosure of the information in the report. We have ensured that each redaction is fully justified by an appropriate exemption in the Freedom of Information Act.

I remind the House that the purpose of the inquiry in identifying those factors which contributed to the loss is to identify lessons to be taken forward. The board and the chain of command made 38 recommendations, most of which have already been agreed and acted upon. Decisions on the remainder will be made in the near future.

The board of inquiry into the accident involving Squirrel HT2 ZJ 247 is now complete. I express my gratitude to the president and the board for their painstaking work.

Armed Forces Covenant

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) on securing this debate on the armed forces covenant. I have discussed the subject rather a lot over the last two years, so I know a certain amount about it.

I am delighted by the hon. Lady’s new-found interest in the covenant, and I am only sorry that she trotted out some old, incorrect and rather party political figures and arguments, because I had hoped that we could move on and discuss the positive achievements of the covenant. May I also correct her on the following point? We did not introduce the covenant into law because of any campaigns by anybody. It was a manifesto commitment, which was reiterated by the Prime Minister shortly after we took office.

[Mrs Glindon]

However, will the Minister acknowledge the part that the British Legion played?

[Mr Robathan]

I talk to the British Legion the whole time, of course. Indeed, I saw the chief executive on Monday at a conference. We work very closely together, although I am sorry that the Labour party has said that they will be issuing joint press releases, as I think it is important—[Interruption.] Well, I have a document which I can show any Member who might want to look at it. It is important that all charities remain outside the party political arena, and that they are not in any way hijacked by a political party.

Much has been said about the covenant, but I believe that actions speak louder than words, which is why we have placed in law a requirement for the Defence Secretary to report annually to Parliament, clearly setting out what has been achieved and how we are performing. Despite the hon. Lady’s criticisms, I think we are doing rather well, but there is still work to be done. As I have said innumerable times, we are building on the work of the last Government’s Command Paper; I do not think there is any disagreement on that.

The Prime Minister chaired the inaugural ministerial committee meeting on the armed forces covenant, which I believe took place last month, although it could have been at the end of February. I regularly discuss the covenant with the Minister of State, Cabinet Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Mr Letwin), who is the Minister for government policy and is leading cross-departmental work. Indeed, I spent about an hour with him not more than three hours ago. It is also very encouraging to see how communities throughout the country are producing their own community covenants, including in the hon. Lady’s own constituency. I congratulate them on that, because it is an important step forward.

A key principle of the covenant is to tackle disadvantage incurred as a result of service. That is why, today, in a joint announcement with Royal Mail, we have launched a practical initiative to help those who are serving overseas by giving them the opportunity to apply for credit from UK institutions and to shop online. In the past, service personnel have experienced difficulty if they were living overseas due to the absence of a credit score or reference search based on a traditional UK address. From now on, British forces post office addresses will be recognised. That is the kind of relatively minor Government action, working with others, which makes a real difference to the lives of our service personnel and their families.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Robathan]

I am sorry, but I will not give way.

Disadvantage can take many forms but let us not forget that members of the armed forces are also members of the community they serve, and it is only right that they should play their part in the very necessary changes we have had to make to reduce the deficit. Armed forces pay is frozen, as is that of all public sector workers, with the exception of those earning £21,000 or less, to whom we have given £250 in each of the two years of the pay freeze. I am glad to say that pay has also increased incrementally each year for those who are not at the top of their pay scale, and so serving personnel are getting increases, but not an overall increase in the pay scale. That protection was introduced for the armed forces to ensure they were not disadvantaged by their lack of contractual entitlement. This is in accordance with the principles of the armed forces covenant and has meant that most service personnel will have received an increase to their pay during the pay freeze period. I am sure that all hon. Members wish that the same was true of us, too.

I have said to the House before that I did not enter Parliament to make members of the armed forces redundant, especially when we are asking them to do so much in Afghanistan, as we are now. However, we inherited a massive black hole in the Department’s budget, as has now been accepted by the Labour party. That was unsustainable, and something needed to be done and quickly. The strategic defence and security review of October 2010—the first in 13 years—set the requirement for the future. It included removing out-of-date capabilities and it made room to ensure that we can afford those capabilities needed for the future. The second and final tranche of redundancies for the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force will conclude in June. The Army will conduct a further tranche and detailed planning is being undertaken. Believe me, this is a painful process that none of us enjoys. As was clearly stated by my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox) when he was Defence Secretary, no one currently serving in Afghanistan or on notice to deploy will be made redundant unless they have asked, and are subsequently selected, to be included in the list.

The Government published, in December 2011, the interim report on the armed forces covenant, to which the hon. Lady referred, and I urge the whole House to read it. It was an interim report because the covenant had been in existence for only a few months, and therefore we could not have a whole year’s report. “Transition” is covered in chapter 10, as is “Housing after Service”. The Minister for Housing and Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), has recently consulted local authorities on how former service personnel are managed on the local authority housing list. He will announce the findings of that consultation in due course.

On 21 March, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced three new measures to help service personnel. On housing, an extra £100 million has been made available to improve service accommodation. In addition, a much-welcomed doubling in the funding available for families’ welfare while their loved one is away will allow units to fund activities beyond those already announced. It underlines our commitment to those who serve with such selfless devotion to duty, safe in the knowledge that we are looking after their families while they are away.

[Mrs Glindon]

May I refer the Minister back to the figures that I mentioned in my speech? If the £100 million will not be devalued, does that mean that the three-year freeze will be reduced to a two-year freeze so that that £47 million will not be lost?

[Mr Robathan]

We are continuing to refurbish bathrooms and kitchens, for instance, but we are not doing the wholesale modernisation as that has been stopped by the freeze. That £100 million will go towards improvements and the modernisations that will go forward, but there is a freeze. There is a freeze for one simple reason: to quote the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in the previous Government, “there is no money”. It is no good saying that we should spend more when we do not have any money.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Robathan]

No, I am afraid that I will not.

Thirdly, council tax relief has been doubled to just under £600 for a typical six-month tour. That ensures that those who are doing so much to maintain our national security benefit the most. Although it is now old hat to say it, I repeat the fact that doubling the operational allowance for an operational tour means that every member of the armed forces who comes back from a six-month tour in Afghanistan comes back with approximately £5,600, tax free, in his or her pocket. That is particularly good business for travel agents and car salesmen, I think, but it is a great gift and they deserve the money that they get. We are very pleased with that and I can assure the hon. Lady that when I have been in Afghanistan—one sometimes gets the odd ear-bending, if I can put it that way—I have heard that people are grateful for that large lump sum, which is deserved, when they come back.

One of the most important aspects of the covenant is the way we treat those who have been injured or suffer from a debilitating health problem as a result of what we have asked them to do. Medical treatment in the battlefield is second to none and what was once an injury that would take a life is now much more survivable. Outstanding care continues at the Queen Elizabeth hospital and at Headley Court, where the determination of our people to get back to as normal a life as possible is impressively displayed. When one meets amputees who are going to climb Kilimanjaro, one is genuinely humbled. I know that that word is much over-used, but it really is very impressive.

Some, sadly, will need a lifetime of care and we are committed to providing it. My hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) has produced two excellent reports and we are taking forward his recommendations, particularly those in his “Fighting Fit” report on the mental well-being of our people. I am pleased to say that the Minister of State, Department of Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), has recently announced continued funding for the 24-hour helpline that was one of the recommendations. If anybody would like to ring it, as I have, they will discover that the person at the other end of the line knows what he or she is talking about and gives good signposting to those with mental health issues.

We are also working to introduce a veterans’ information service. It will routinely contact service leavers 12 months after they are discharged to establish whether they have any health needs that require attention. The “Fighting Fit” report refers to the service as something of a safety net to help veterans once the support structures available to them during their service lives are no longer readily accessible. To get it right, it is essential that we can easily identify ex-service personnel, so we are working with the Department of Health to ensure that a veteran’s status is properly recorded on his or her records. Equally, however, we must recognise that some who leave the services do not wish to have such a status recorded, and it is right to respect their individual wishes.

The hon. Lady particularly asked whether we will publish a covenant this year and we will do so in the autumn—in November, I would expect—not least because it is a statutory requirement and we believe firmly that we should obey the laws that we have passed.

The armed forces covenant remains work in progress, but it definitely is progressing. We have already made significant gains and we are fulfilling our commitments made in the programme for Government. Much more is set out in the interim report to which the hon. Lady has referred, which I am sure she has read. However it is wrong to suggest that every time we have to make a difficult decision to repair the damage caused by the previous Administration, it is somehow a breach of that commitment. The covenant defines the principles of removing disadvantage and allowing special provision in some circumstances in the access to public and commercial services. This has set a framework for policy making and delivery across Government and will improve the support available for the armed forces community. Those who serve and those who have served deserve nothing less, even in the difficult times we face today.

Question put and agreed to.

Death In Service Inheritance Tax

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 17th April 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship for, I think, the first time, Mr Hood. The topic is important and sensitive, and I am grateful for the opportunity to respond.

We in the Ministry of Defence strive very hard to provide appropriate support to bereaved families when one of our serving or former service personnel loses their life. I am always saddened to hear of cases in which families feel that they have not received the support that they should at the time of their loss. The background to the case of Mr Thomas is a tragedy and I extend my sympathy to his family, who are still most upset about his death and the issues raised. The passing of time does not always ease the pain of bereavement, particularly when it is worsened by the feeling that the support provided at the time was not sufficient. I assure the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) that the support provided to next of kin and other grieving relatives continues to improve.

When a service person dies in service, an appropriate representative will be appointed from the casualty’s own service as the prime point of contact for the next of kin, and in some instances the emergency contact, if considered appropriate. That person will be a dedicated officer known as the visiting officer, and they will guide and assist the next of kin in repatriation and funeral procedures—I regret to say that that is all too often with Operation Herrick—and will help with any questions the family may have. The visiting officer provides a crucial liaison between families and the services, which continues for as long as it is needed. A veterans’ welfare officer will also be appointed from within the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency to assist the dependants of the deceased. They can provide advice and guidance on the comprehensive package of benefits that may be available under the armed forces pension and armed forces compensation schemes, brought in by the previous Government, of which the right hon. Gentleman was a member, and on other more wide-ranging issues, such as housing and benefit entitlements from the Department for Work and Pensions.

Although some defence charities, such as SSAFA Forces Help or the Royal British Legion, cannot make direct or unsolicited contact with service families, they can provide long-term support to bereaved service families who approach them, including a support group consisting of bereaved relatives meeting on a regular basis to offer support to each other.

The whole Government recognise that service personnel such as Mr Thomas warrant special consideration in acknowledgment of the particular debt of gratitude owed to them for service given in the cause of national defence and international peace. We are aware of the sacrifices made by those who have risked their lives and suffered hardship in facing the challenges of military service. On 16 May 2011, the Secretary of State for Defence published the armed forces covenant—a new tri-service document and the first of its kind. It sets out what service personnel and their families can expect from the Government and the nation in recognition of what we ask them to do to keep us safe. The Government are determined to remove disadvantages encountered as a result of service and, by publishing the covenant, we have established the right direction of travel.

The case of Nigel Lawrence Thomas is a very sad one and, again, I extend my condolences to his parents and other family members. Mr Thomas proudly served his country as a member of the Royal Air Force until he was discharged in 2004. His life was then tragically cut short by chronic myeloid leukaemia and secondary conditions in March 2010. From previous endeavours on behalf of Nigel’s mother, Mrs Davies, the right hon. Gentleman will be aware that, subsequent to the sad loss of her son, she first made enquiries about an exemption from inheritance tax at the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency in June 2010.

In recognition of the particular debt of gratitude that we owe to our former service personnel, it is only right and proper that in certain circumstances special consideration be given as to whether a deceased person’s estate should be exempt from inheritance tax. The right hon. Gentleman described some such conditions. A deceased service person’s estate may be exempt from inheritance tax if, under delegated authority from the Secretary of State for Defence, my officials certify that section 154 of the Inheritance Tax Act 1984 applies. Under the Act, such certification can be given when the deceased has died from a wound inflicted, accident occurring or disease contracted at a time when they were on active service against an enemy, or on service of a warlike nature. Certification may also be given in instances in which a service person dies from a disease contracted at some previous time if the death were due to or hastened by the aggravation of a disease during a period of such service. If such certification is given, my officials will recommend to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs that an estate should be exempt from paying inheritance tax. There is, however, no automatic exemption from inheritance tax for veterans. Deaths in retirement resulting from natural causes, road traffic accidents, or injuries or illnesses that were not contracted during or aggravated by war or warlike service do not qualify for an exemption. Equally, if individuals have a wound or illness arising from their service that might have eventually killed them but they die from a wholly unrelated cause, if the wound or illness played no part in their demise, their estate cannot be certified as exempt from inheritance tax.

Mr Thomas served in Cyprus from 1989 until 1992, and it is recognised that for at least part of that period he was operating in a role in support of operations in the Gulf during the first Gulf war. From his service record, however, it is evident that during that time he did not undertake deployed service in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait or Iraq, or come into direct contact with Iraqi forces. As such, my officials were unable to recommend that his estate be considered for exemption from inheritance tax, as the criteria defined under section 154 of the Act had not been met. A request by the family for the payment by my Department of funeral expenses in respect of Mr Thomas was approved because, in the view of an MOD medical adviser, it could not be demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that some aspect of his service did not cause the condition that led to his death. That is, however, a quite separate issue from the matter of whether an estate should or should not be eligible for an exemption from inheritance tax. The criteria involved are quite different, and it would be wrong to assume that the decision to pay funeral expenses undermines the decision by my officials not to recommend an exemption. Similarly, the award of the Gulf medal for the first Gulf war was made on the basis that people were supporting, full-time, the operation, and not on whether they were engaged in warlike service.

The right hon. Gentleman asked me to look again in particular at the legislation. I assure him that I will, on his behalf, because he has raised an important case. First, as requested, I will review the case and look in particular at the accident referred to in his speech. Secondly, I will review the operation of section 154 of the Inheritance Tax Act 1984, in conjunction with my colleagues in the Treasury. He particularly asked me whether I was happy to go the extra mile for the family of Nigel Thomas, whose case the right hon. Gentleman has articulated so well today. I certainly will and hope that he may be reassured by that.

[Mr Hanson]

If I may respond to the Minister’s comments, I thank him personally, on behalf of the family, for agreeing to review the case of Mr Thomas. I also thank him for his promised review of section 154 of the Act. In my speech, I asked whether the Minister could report back to the House. I should be grateful if he would confirm that he will either write to me or issue a written statement following that review so that we can have some clarity on the outcomes, and if he would let me know the time scale of the review.

[Mr Robathan]

I assure the right hon. Gentleman that I shall reply to him. Time scales, as he knows from his past as a Minister, can sometimes be what I might call slightly fluid, but I shall endeavour to be as timely as possible.

Defence Police and Guarding Agency

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

Following the comprehensive spending review and the strategic defence and security review, and in view of the continuing pressure on the defence budget, the Ministry of Defence has carried out a very wide-ranging examination of civil policing and guarding policy and requirements to ensure that they reflect the main security and crime risks faced by the MOD and are being met as cost-effectively as possible. Safeguarding our sites, people and assets—in particular those associated with our nuclear programme—remains a central priority.

We have, however, concluded that we can make sensible and prudent reductions in the number of guarding and civil policing posts at some of our sites, while continuing to maintain effective security. It would not be appropriate to describe in full the specific detail of our future guarding and civil policing requirements or the precise arrangements at individual sites, but I set out below the main elements of the changes we now envisage.

Our approach has been to look hard at our requirements, identify what is essential, and retain it. But reductions are possible in areas where activity, personnel, or expenditure is not absolutely essential to protecting our people, our assets or the delivery of defence outputs. In the current fiscal climate it is our duty to make savings in these areas, both to save money for the taxpayer, and to ensure defence can devote as much resource as possible to the front line.

We have identified areas for reductions by focusing on sites and activities:

where we can safely rely more on physical security measures and less on the continuous presence of the previous numbers of security personnel;

where the regular service occupants of sites can take on a greater role in security while maintaining their operational outputs;

where duties currently undertaken by MOD police officers do not, in today’s circumstances, require police powers, and could therefore be taken on by other staff at lower cost; and

where we can reasonably rely more on support from local police forces, who in any case have primacy in pursuing any incident or investigating any crime.

The measures are being progressed as they are developed. The furthest advanced are changes to the MOD police headquarters and management structure, the cost of which will reduce by 41%. These include: cutting the number of divisions from five to two; simplifying processes, centralising services and reducing complements; and civilianising police posts wherever that is sensible. Consultation with the staff associations and trade unions has begun, with implementation expected to start during 2012. Follow-up studies are planned, with the target of identifying a further 9% saving, bringing the total reduction to 50%. At the same time, there will be consultation on proposals to reduce the cost of the MOD guard service headquarters and regional management structure by 50%.

Other measures were the subject of general departmental consultation with the staff associations and trades unions in 2011, and are now the subject of further more detailed consultation on implementation. These measures are:

a modest increase in the number of sites where we believe can safely rely for part or all of the week on physical security measures, and therefore do not need guards on duty at all times;

changes in guarding policy that make prudent reductions in the security complements at a number of defence sites, and focus effort on the most important security activities;

adjusting guarding numbers at sites where experience has shown that effective security can in practice be maintained with complements lower than previously employed;

continuing to provide support and reassurance to defence communities by focusing a reduced number of defence community police officers on areas of greatest need;

reprioritising the work of the MOD police criminal investigation department on the crimes that most significantly affect the defence interest, yielding a cost saving; and

a rationalisation of the MOD police uniformed operational support capability not permanently allocated to specific sites, with a saving of some posts.

In parallel with the implementation of the changes above, I have agreed some additional measures for departmental consultation with the staff associations and trade unions in 2012. Formal consultative documents will be issued in due course, but the main proposals are:

Making increased use of regular service personnel to carry out unarmed access control duties at (or near) sites where they are stationed, with individuals undertaking periodic duties that will not reduce their operational readiness. At other military sites unarmed access control will be carried out by reallocating existing complements of the specialist military guards of the Military Provost Guard Service. Together these changes will allow the removal of MOD guard service officers from many Navy, Army and RAF sites;

Specific determination of guarding and policing numbers at a small number of sites with unique security features;

In the light of new analysis, some further rationalisation of the MOD police uniformed operational support capability not permanently allocated to specific sites;

Reallocation of security duties at three Navy sites so that, with a small enhancement, the Military Provost Guard Service complements can take over the essential roles of the MOD police complements there;

Maintaining essential armed security by replacing some (but not all) MOD police officers at certain sites with Military Provost Guard Service soldiers, allowing duties for which constabulary powers are not essential to be discharged at a lower cost;

Greater reliance on local police forces for community support activity on defence families estates in Great Britain, allowing the withdrawal of MOD police defence community police officers;

Further rationalisation of the MOD police criminal investigation department in the light of a recent departmental review, to form part of a co-ordinated pan-departmental strategy to combat fraud and other acquisitive crime against defence.

Further consultation will take place on all these proposed changes, during which we will assess their impact carefully in the circumstances of individual sites. In view of this flexible approach to implementation, we cannot yet state with certainty what the eventual impact will be on personnel numbers. However, on the current assumptions, the likely effect would be to reduce the MOD police from its complement in 2009 of some 3,600 officers to a complement of around 2,400 by 1 April 2016 (compared to a current strength of just under 3,100); and to reduce the MOD guard service from its complement in 2009 of some 4,000 to a complement a little under 2,200 by 1 April 2015 (compared to a current strength of just under 3,300).

While consultation on, and implementation of, these measures continues, my Department will continue to seek further efficiencies in guarding and civil policing expenditure. In particular, routine activity to review complements at all our sites continues, taking account of the latest information about specific sites, and seeking improvements in the effective deployment of staff where possible. In addition, we are seeking efficiencies in the use of the defence estate, which may change the requirement for guarding and civil policing. Such changes will be subject to consultation with the staff associations and trades unions in the usual way.

I do not expect staff affected by these changes to welcome them, and I recognise—and very much regret—the uncertainty and anxiety caused to the personnel involved, who have made a vital contribution to defence security over many years.

The fact remains, however, that we must focus our new security requirements, not on the past, but on what is essential for the future.

We can and will make savings in guarding and civil policing, but I can assure the House that effective security arrangements will be maintained at all defence sites.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald) (Con)]

3. How much he plans to invest in improving the welfare of families of service personnel in the next year.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

All the services have long-standing welfare structures in place to support families. We continually review that support to identify where it can be further improved, and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced a number of measures last Wednesday to support service families. They included £3 million made available to double, again, to 100% the council tax rebate for deployed service personnel; £2 million allocated to double the rate of the families welfare grant, which is available to commanding officers to use as they see fit on activities for the families of those deployed; and an additional investment of £100 million in 2013-14 to improve service accommodation.

[Mrs Grant]

What action is being taken to assess the effects of mobility on service children?

[Mr Robathan]

My hon. Friend raises a very good point, and I should say that in general, service children have a rather better than average attainment record in schools. We have several schemes, one of which is the continuity of education allowance, which allows children to remain in one school while their parents move around the world or the country. Another is the pupil premium that we have introduced, run by the Department for Education, under which each child carries a passport of money for their school. Schools very much welcome that.

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

I join the Secretary of State in expressing sincere sympathy at the tragic deaths of the soldiers in Afghanistan.

Can the Minister confirm that homes at military bases in Northern Ireland such as Aldergrove will be upgraded to improve living conditions for all our military families?

[Mr Robathan]

The hon. Gentleman raises a very important issue. It is rather like painting the Forth road bridge—or is it the rail bridge? I can never remember. [Interruption.] The rail bridge—I am grateful. It is ongoing—[Hon. Members: “Not any more.”] Apparently, they have found a new paint in Scotland. Nevertheless, we will continue to work on all Army quarters. The last Government took great steps to improve service family accommodation, and we are continuing that work.

[Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con)]

Following on from the support that is given to serving personnel, what support is given to veterans and their families through extra funding for centres such as the Wirral veterans contact centre, which was set up in 2011 specifically for that purpose?

[Mr Robathan]

If my hon. Friend would like to speak to me about that centre, I would be very happy to look into it. I have to say that I have not heard of it before. We work very closely with all the service charities in the voluntary sector to support ex-service personnel, and we also do a great deal of work through the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency and other organisations to support ex-service personnel.

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the announcements in the Budget targeted at forces families’ welfare, but I hope the Minister occasionally reads the Army Families Federation website and blog. If so, he will see how the announcement on housing is being received. One blog post reads that

“it’s difficult to regard as new money and is still £40 million short of that allocated and withdrawn last year…it does not begin to answer the problems surrounding the rebasing of families from Germany.”

Is he embarrassed that the Chancellor’s announcement does not even make up for last year’s cut?

[Mr Robathan]

I really do think, first, that Opposition Members should remember that we are struggling in a very difficult financial situation caused by the last Government. Secondly, the hon. Lady should not believe every word that appears on every blog on the internet, because there are rather a lot of them. Thirdly, I was most interested to discover that the shadow team led by the right hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy) had been issuing joint press statements with service charities, which I have to say I find very surprising. I am rather disappointed if the Royal British Legion is sending out joint press statements with the shadow Defence team, as was said in a very reputable newspaper, The Mail on Sunday, yesterday.

[Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)]

4. What recent progress his Department has made on co-operation with the government of France on defence equipment; and if he will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

13. What recent progress his Department has made on implementation of the provisions of the Armed Forces Act 2011.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

The Armed Forces Act 2011 received Royal Assent on 3 November 2011. Some of its provisions, including the continuation of the Armed Forces Act 2006, came into force on that day. The provision relating to the call-out of reserve forces came into force two months later. Implementation of the remainder of the Act is now under way. The first commencement order was made on 1 March, which brings into force, with effect on either 8 March or 2 April, about half of the remaining provisions of the Act, including the provisions relating to the armed forces covenant report, Ministry of Defence police performance regulations and the independence of service police investigations.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I thank the Minister for that answer, and may I associate myself with the condolences expressed earlier? Does the Minister agree that means-testing the compensation paid to the bereaved families of those who have fallen on the front line is not right and should be looked at again?

[Mr Robathan]

The hon. Lady raises an important issue. This practice causes a great deal of unhappiness among some people, and I accept her point that it should be kept under review. The means-testing of compensation awards is not a Ministry of Defence responsibility, but if she likes I will get my colleagues in the relevant Department to write to her.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend and the Government on their work on the military covenant. Will he take this opportunity to thank organisations such as the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Families Association for the work they do for those serving on the front line and their loved ones?

[Mr Robathan]

I certainly will. As my hon. Friend knows, both we and the country as a whole rely a great deal on the service charities and voluntary sector, as have previous Governments. My hon. Friend mentions the SSAFA, but many other organisations, including the Army Benevolent Fund—or ABF, as it is now called—Help for Heroes and the Royal British Legion do excellent work on behalf of our service personnel and ex-service personnel. There are, I think, almost 2,000 such service charities, so I will not name them all.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

14. What assessment he has made of the efficacy of the armed forces community covenant scheme; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

It is too early to assess the efficacy of the scheme, which was launched less than a year ago, but the level of interest from communities across the UK is very promising. More than 40 councils have already signed a covenant, and more than £2 million has already been allocated to support local projects under the grant scheme.

[Stephen Lloyd]

I thank the Minister for that answer. I am particularly interested in soldiers’ mental health. What is the MOD doing to increase public understanding and awareness of potential mental health issues among armed forces personnel, especially in preparation for the troop draw-down from Afghanistan?

[Mr Robathan]

We take the issue of mental health extremely seriously, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will know. I particularly pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) for his “Fighting Fit” report. We have implemented a great many of his recommendations and I believe we will implement them all, including working closely with Combat Stress, which we continue to do. Combat Stress has installed a helpline for those in trouble. We continue to take this matter seriously. It is not really part of the armed forces community covenant, but we see it as part of wider covenant issues.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

On celebrating links between communities and the armed forces, will the Minister note the extremely strong support shown by the town of Warminster on 16 March as 3rd Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment, which is deploying in extremely difficult circumstances to Afghanistan, marched through the town?

[Mr Robathan]

I will. We all know of the tragedies in Afghanistan, and there cannot be anyone in the House who has not shed a tear for the brave young men who die in the service of their country. I pay tribute to the people of Warminster and, indeed, to their Member of Parliament.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

16. What steps he is taking to ensure that military personnel deployed in combat zones have sufficient training and experience.

--- Later in debate ---

[Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)]

T5. Given that 30% of all Vietnam veterans suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder, and given the 13 to 14 year average before our veterans display PTSD symptoms, what is the Minister doing to ensure that servicemen and women receive support not just soon after their discharge, but in the decades that follow?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I note that my hon. Friend recently took part in a Westminster Hall debate on exactly this issue, which was replied to by the Minister of State, Department of Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), with whom I recently visited Combat Stress because we have worked hand in hand on these issues. I mentioned the “Fighting Fit” report earlier. We are looking very closely at the long-term provision of support. This is a difficult and complex field, and we work very closely with the King’s Centre, under Professor Simon Wessely.

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

I wish to return to the question posed by the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) about one of the most controversial decisions of the Government—the decision to sell the Harriers, leaving the UK with carriers but no aeroplanes to fly from them. I have in my hand an internal MOD document that reveals that the Government sold the Harriers for much less than they were worth—in fact for a sixth of the cost of a recent upgrade. The document shows that there is a fear about viable capability being thrown away and points out that at the point of sale the aircraft should be moved in secret to avoid media attention. May I ask the Secretary of State why, when money is so tight, the Government sold the Harriers so cheaply to the US?

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

T6. The Minister will be familiar with Chetwynd barracks in Chilwell in Broxtowe having visited it just the other week, when he brought a cheque for £50,000 for Alderman Pounder school, for which we are very grateful. Will he ensure that some of the extra money announced in last week’s Budget is provided to soldiers’ families at Chetwynd, who want, like many soldiers, to live on base as a community?

[Mr Robathan]

I was delighted to visit my hon. Friend’s constituency and Alderman Pounder school and I am delighted at the work going on there, which is helped by the MOD support fund for state schools with service children. I should also warn her about Greeks bearing gifts, but I have no Greek blood.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

T2. The recent London-Somali conference reflected the commitment of successive Governments to that region, but the communiqué spoke of co-ordinated ground action, and air strikes were also mooted. Will the Secretary of State rule out British military action in Somalia, including ground troops and air strikes?

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

T7. Concerns about the provision of mental health care for veterans have been widely reported in the media. Does the Minister have any plans to implement the community veterans mental health project following the success of a pilot scheme in Wales?

[Mr Robathan]

We are looking at that as we are looking at all future provision, but this is quite a developing field. As I said earlier, we look very much to advice from the King’s Centre and Professor Simon Wessely. He has already provided some excellent advice. PTSD and issues of mental health are extraordinarily complicated. I think we need to tread very warily when we go forward and to take them extremely seriously.

[Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)]

T3. In the previous MOD questions my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State asked what steps the Minister had taken to ensure the service premium continues to be paid for the children of service personnel who die on duty. The Minister has had a full month, so will he tell me what steps he has actually taken to ensure that service children are properly supported and continue to receive the help they deserve? Has he lived up to his previous statement that he does not wash his hands of the situation?

[Mr Robathan]

The reason I said that I do not wash my hands of the situation is that we are concerned about service children whose parents have been killed. However, as I said at the time, this is a Department for Education initiative. I should have hoped that the Opposition praise the pupil premium initiative. We are very keen that all children of service personnel should do well, but the premium is paid because of the mobility of children. We therefore have to look very carefully at how children will be affected when their mobility ceases.

[Mr Speaker]

I am very keen to hear Back Benchers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

Following on from that question and the Secretary of State’s reply, may I draw his attention to my Question 17 on the Order Paper and ask when the Ministry of Defence is going to come clean about the future of the Ministry of Defence police? The Labour Government cut the number of MOD police posts in my constituency from 33 to three, and now Question 17 indicates further cuts.

[Mr Robathan]

As my right hon. Friend just mentioned, there is to be a written ministerial statement tomorrow, but I can say that we aim to reprioritise the work of the Ministry of Defence police criminal investigation department on the crimes that most significantly affect the defence interest. There will be reductions, but we will consult staff associations and the trade unions, as well as other key stakeholders such as the Home Office.

[Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab)]

Have the Scottish Government recently sought any discussions with the Minister and, if so, what have they focused on?

--- Later in debate ---

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

The treatment of veterans, including those in ongoing conflicts, such as Afghanistan, is a key part of the military covenant. To that end the Westminster Government repeatedly send Ministers and Members of Parliament to understand circumstances there to inform decision-making on the treatment of veterans in medical policy and support provision. Given that veterans issues are largely devolved in Scotland, why has the MOD refused to arrange a visit to service personnel in Afghanistan for Scottish veterans affairs Minister, Keith Brown?

[Mr Robathan]

I understood that that was a question about a visit for a Minister from Scotland. I am afraid we do not arrange visits for Ministers from Scotland unless we are asked specifically in writing.

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that our support to the Afghan Government will continue long after 2014 so that Afghanistan does not once again become an ungoverned space that can be exploited by terrorists?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

Given the physical constraints of Headley Court, will the Minister update the House on plans for a national rehabilitation centre?

[Mr Robathan]

Headley Court does a fantastic job. I know that Members from across the House have visited it. However, in the long term we see a new centre, the defence and national rehabilitation centre, being established in the midlands—at a place called Stanford Hall. This is being supported very much and led by the Duke of Westminster and other donors. We pay tribute to them. I will discuss the details later—I shall be sat on if I give any more. It is an excellent initiative and I pay tribute to those involved.

Service Complaints Commissioner

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 20th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I am pleased to lay before Parliament today the Service Complaints Commissioner’s fourth annual report on the fairness, effectiveness and efficiency of the service complaints system.

The independent oversight and scrutiny of the system provided by the commissioner continue to help us improve further the manner in which we handle complaints. I and the service chiefs value this contribution and are committed to ensuring we have a complaints system in which service personnel and their families have confidence.

The Ministry of Defence and the services continue to work closely with the commissioner, and I am pleased that this report acknowledges the changes we have made to the system over the last 12 months and the further improvements planned for 2012. We are not complacent and are committed to continuous improvement.

I will provide a formal response to the commissioner once I and the services have had time to consider fully the findings of the report and the recommendations made.