Greyhound Welfare

George Eustice Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell, in particular because I know you have knowledge of and interest in the subject of the debate. I welcome this debate and the interest that the Chair of the Select Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), and all the other members of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee have shown in prioritising this and other animal welfare issues for inquiry by their Committee.

I am also conscious that the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) is something of an expert on the Welfare of Racing Greyhounds Regulations 2010, because I think he was the Minister when they were passed. The Committee clearly benefited from his experience. It is unusual for Ministers to be able to review their own regulations some years after introducing them. I am sure he enjoyed that experience.

As hon. Members might know, earlier this summer we had a rearrangement of portfolios in DEFRA. My noble Friend Lord Gardiner now takes responsibility for the issues we are discussing and will be taking them forward. However, I retain a passionate interest in the companion animal brief, and I am delighted to be able to represent it still in the House of Commons when we have debates such as this. I was also pleased to be involved in the early work of reviewing the regulations and, indeed, in giving evidence to the Select Committee.

The EFRA Committee report into greyhound welfare has made a significant contribution to our post-implementation review of the 2010 regulations. Before I come to the individual questions asked by hon. Members, it might be helpful if I briefly set out the areas in which the Government are in agreement with the Committee and what the Government said in our post-implementation review of the regulations, which was published in September, after our June response to the Committee.

For us, one of the EFRA Committee’s most important findings was that the introduction of the 2010 regulations appears to have improved the welfare of greyhounds at racetracks. That was one of the key objectives of the regulations when they were introduced. DEFRA’s own post-implementation review found that, when judged against their original objectives, the regulations have been broadly effective, especially in ensuring higher standards at independent tracks. I recall looking at the detail of that, and something as simple as ensuring a veterinary presence at all the tracks has clearly been instrumental in changing the culture. It is probably the single most important requirement of the regulations.

A key recommendation of the Select Committee report was that the industry self-regulatory body, the Greyhound Board of Great Britain, or GBGB, should be given a two-year probationary period to prove that it can be an open and transparent regulator of the sport “without legislative compulsion”. The Government fully agree with the Committee that GBGB could and should have done more since the introduction of the 2010 regulations to prove itself to be open and transparent. However—again, we are in agreement with the Committee—we have seen no evidence of significant failings on the part of the board to suggest that it cannot fulfil that role or that another independent regulator is required.

With regard to standards at the track, the board’s ability to self-regulate is legislated for by its continued accreditation for track standards by the United Kingdom Accreditation Service, or UKAS. UKAS provides independent, external oversight of GBGB’s performance as a regulator of standards at GBGB tracks. Should GBGB lose its UKAS accreditation, it will automatically lose its ability to self-regulate track standards, responsibility for which would then fall to a track’s local authority. One of the key findings of DEFRA’s review is that the system of enforcement of the standards in the greyhound regulations, taking account of the GBGB’s UKAS accreditation, appeared to be satisfactory in maintaining track standards. Indeed, we want to see that type of model replicated for the board’s enforcement of standards at trainers’ kennels, which has been mentioned by a number of hon. Members.

As part of DEFRA’s review, the board agreed to sponsor a British Standards Institution publically available specification for trainers’ kennels, which the board will adopt as the standard for its trainers’ kennels licensing scheme. The board will then seek to extend its UKAS accreditation to cover the kennel licensing work. I believe that proposal goes a long way towards addressing the concerns expressed by many hon. Members about standards at kennels away from tracks.

The Select Committee recommended that we extend the 2010 regulations to cover trainers’ kennels. Our review did not rule that out. The Government want to see how the greyhound board delivers on its commitments before we consider what further regulations might be needed. Given that we have an undertaking to introduce a new BSI standard for trainers’ kennels and to make that part of the UKAS accredited scheme—which the existing system predominantly is—it makes sense to see how that works before making any decision to regulate. We have been clear that if necessary, we will regulate, because it is important to keep the board’s feet to the fire and to make it understand the stakes.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

I am sorry if I missed this, but did the Minister say what the timescale was for introducing the new BSI standard?

[George Eustice]

We do not have a timescale, but I believe that the board is developing the standard now. We expect to see it developed, certainly during the course of 2018. Indeed, we have decided to delay the introduction of some of the small legislative requirements necessary until we have had an opportunity to review how the BSI standard is working.

The Government also want the board to deliver on the other commitments it has given to Ministers, which tie in closely with the Select Committee’s recommendations and its proposed two-year probationary period. The board has agreed to begin publishing annually from 2018 figures for the number of dogs injured and euthanised at GBGB tracks and the number of dogs that leave GBGB racing, including an explanation of what “leave” means.

[Neil Parish]

I thank the Minister for going into so much detail about our report and how the Government are implementing quite a lot of what we recommended. I just question why it is necessary to wait until 2018 for those figures. Either GBGB has them or it does not. Why can it not bring them about now?

[George Eustice]

I will move on to that point, which my hon. Friend raised in his speech. I had that conversation with GBGB. The 2010 regulations required tracks to record those data as part of the local authority licensing regime and the UKAS regime run by GBGB, but those data were never actually collated centrally by GBGB. When I had that conversation with GBGB to secure its commitment to publish those anonymised data, it undertook to begin collating them forthwith. That happened to be earlier this year, so a full set of annual data will be available at the end of 2017. That is what lies behind GBGB’s commitment to publish the data from 2018. I reassure my hon. Friend that I pressed GBGB to see whether the data could be published earlier, but it explained that it had not yet collated them and they were simply recorded by individual tracks. I took that at face value, and I understand what the board says. If we can get those data published from 2018, that seems an important step forward and will probably achieve things far faster than any regulatory device might.

My hon. Friend also mentioned kennels away from tracks, which I have dealt with already. GBGB is planning to add that to the UKAS accreditation scheme and is developing a BSI standard for it.

My hon. Friend made the good suggestion that it is important that we recognise and give credit to gaming companies that contribute to the voluntary levy. As part of its annual report, the British Greyhound Racing Fund publishes a list of all the bookmakers that contribute to that fund. I do not have a copy of that report with me, but I am reliably informed that it already lists and gives credit to everyone who contributes to the fund. It is open to the industry to name and shame those who do not contribute. Indeed, the industry would probably gain some kudos if it were willing to do that, because I have not heard any Member here express sympathy with people who freeload and do not pay their share. The industry and the racetracks may want to consider that.

[Kerry McCarthy]

In their response to the Committee’s report, the Government mention encouraging payment of the voluntary levy and naming and shaming, but would it not be a lot easier just to make that a statutory requirement so that everyone has to abide by the same rules and pay their way?

[George Eustice]

The hon. Lady makes a point that several hon. Members have raised. As she will be aware, this area of legislation is a matter for the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. There is already a statutory horse-racing levy, which has issues of its own. To extend the remit in the way that she and others have suggested would require primary legislation—I do not think we could do that through secondary legislation—and I am told that there may also be EU state aid and competition law issues. Clearly, those types of obstacles will shortly be removed, and in that context the Government may want to revisit and reconsider the issue in the future. I simply say that it would not be as simple as she says to amend the legislation. I am sure that DCMS Ministers will look at this debate, since they are looking closely at these issues in the context of the horse-racing levy.

My hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton mentioned rehoming, which is a very important issue. There are estimates—they are only estimates—that around 8,000 greyhounds leave the industry, the sport, tracks and racing each year. The Retired Greyhound Trust and other animal welfare charities do incredibly good work. The Retired Greyhound Trust rehomes between 3,500 and 4,000 dogs, and we think that other welfare groups rehome around 1,500 dogs. Some people say there are therefore between 1,000 and 1,500 missing dogs.

We have got the GBGB to commit to publishing clearer data about dogs that leave the sport, in terms of what happens to them and what leaving means. I think we all agree that we should aim at all costs to avoid the euthanasia of perfectly healthy dogs. Wherever possible, we should try to rehome these wonderful, kind, loving dogs. I met two of them when a constituent brought two greyhounds that had been involved in racing to see me.

The EFRA Committee’s report made it clear in paragraph 60, on page 16, that the

“introduction of microchipping should significantly improve the tracking of greyhounds bred for racing from birth to death.”

Let us hope we get some progress on that.

The hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse raised the issues of trainers’ kennels, which I have dealt with, and of disappearing dogs, which I believe we can make some progress on. He referred to the £0.5 million welfare initiatives fund that we mentioned in our response to the Select Committee, which I understand was the result of better than expected fund income and an underspend. That is obviously a welcome boost at a time when, as my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton said, funds for this sort of work have generally been declining.

The hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) highlighted some appalling cases of animal cruelty. I am as horrified by her examples and anecdotes as any other hon. Member or member of the public would be. I simply point out that every single case she cited is a clear breach of existing animal cruelty laws. Those cases breach the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and would have breached animal welfare legislation predating the 2006 Act.

The hon. Lady also said that we should have a moratorium on the opening of new tracks. I am not sure that that is the challenge we face. We have some 28 tracks in total, 24 of which are under a scheme with the GBGB. Only four are regulated by local authorities, and they are small independent tracks. I am not sure that the challenge we have is dozens and dozens of new tracks opening up and causing new problems. This sport does not seem to be expanding; if anything, it might be losing popularity. I therefore do not believe that we need the type of moratorium she suggests.

The hon. Lady and several other hon. Members, including the hon. Member for Redcar (Anna Turley), raised doping. That is already an offence under the Gambling Act 2005, and people can be prosecuted for it. Depending on what is used, it is also potentially an offence under the Animal Welfare Act 2006. The hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow may take the view that there has been insufficient enforcement or that inadequate penalties have been applied in some cases, but the legal remedy for those issues exists.

[Dr Cameron]

I thank the Minister for clarifying those issues. Is there scope to put more resources into prosecution and ensuring that regulation goes much further?

[George Eustice]

There may be opportunities to review enforcement. Indeed, in DEFRA at the moment we have concluded another review of animal licensing establishments, where we are looking at getting more consistent enforcement across the piece on animal welfare. I am sure that I can look forward to another debate in this place because the EFRA Committee has also undertaken an inquiry into some of those proposals, which we are considering at the moment.

I may have misunderstood the hon. Member for Redcar, but she appeared to suggest that the Animal Welfare Act does not apply to the independent tracks or all tracks. That is not true. Whether a racing track is covered by the UKAS accreditation scheme or indeed by a licence from a local authority, all tracks and everyone at all times are covered by the Act—there is no exemption. The 2010 regulations supplement our animal welfare legislation; they are not an alternative to it.

The shadow Minister, in that vein, raised the level of inspection of those small independent tracks. That is ultimately an issue for the local authority. There are only four such tracks and only three local authorities are involved in licensing them, so the local authorities tend to be very familiar with the tracks they license and are in a good place to judge the level of inspection that is required. It is often the case that the smaller tracks tend to be for hobby racers rather than the professional industry, and we often have fewer issues with them. Therefore, in some circumstances a local authority may deem that an annual inspection is unnecessary.

I am grateful to the EFRA Committee for both its scrutiny of this matter and its report. The report’s findings support DEFRA’s own review of the 2010 greyhound regulations. Both the EFRA Committee’s report and DEFRA’s review found that there had been a number of successes in the past six years, as well as areas in which the industry could and should have done more. The GBGB is beginning to address those concerns, and we have agreements with it to do so by 2018—a two-year probationary period. Should the board fail, the Government will consider other approaches, including regulation.

Community Fisheries Control Agency

George Eustice Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2016 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

The Government acknowledge the efforts of the Commission to address the ongoing migration crisis, but has decided not to opt in to the justice and home affairs content in the proposal for a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council amending regulation (EC) No 768/2005 establishing a European Fisheries Control Agency.

The proposal—which has now been adopted—forms part of a wider package of measures by the Commission to improve collaboration and co-ordination between the newly named European Fisheries Control Agency (EFCA), formerly Community Fisheries Control Agency (CFCA), member states, the proposed European Border and Coast Guard Agency and the existing European Maritime Safety Agency (EMSA) to support national authorities carrying out their coast guard functions.

The amendment will formally establish co-operation for the prevention, detection and investigation of criminal offences by giving EFCA powers to share information and intelligence, such as the data currently accessible through ship reporting, and to provide services, equipment and training. The ECFA will be able to co-ordinate multi-purpose operations, and facilitate building capacity and asset sharing; it also will increase its control and inspection activities.

Although there is little practical or operational benefit for the UK from this measure, the Government maintain that their effect amounts to an obligation that falls within the scope of the justice and home affairs section of the Treaties and is, therefore, subject to the UK’s JHA opt-in. It is on that basis that the Government have decided not to opt in.

[HCWS357]

December Agriculture Council

George Eustice Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2016 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

The Agriculture and Fisheries Council will take place on 12 and 13 December in Brussels. I will represent the United Kingdom.

As the provisional agenda stands, the primary focus for fisheries will be reaching political agreements on 2017 fishing opportunities for certain fish stocks and groups of stocks in EU waters, certain non-EU waters and the Black sea.

On agriculture, draft conclusions will be adopted on strengthening farmers’ position in the food supply chain and tackling unfair trading practices. There will be an exchange of views concerning agriculture and climate change, and a progress report on the proposed organics regulation.

There are currently two confirmed any other business items labelled for this Council:

Plant breeders’ rights (tabled by the presidency)

Information on the application of new plant health regulation (tabled by the Commission).

[HCWS331]

Household Food Insecurity

George Eustice Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck) on securing the debate. I know that as she outlined in her speech, she has been engaged with the issue for several years. Although I disagree with some of her analysis, we can all agree that the food banks in all our constituencies do fantastic work. I want to pay tribute in particular to the one in my constituency of Camborne and Redruth, which is run by a wonderful volunteer called Don Gardner and supported by many local churches. I have visited it regularly over the past few years. When I visited a few weeks ago it had support from National Citizen Service volunteers, who were giving some of their time as part of their project. Last year, because the charity is so valued, it was nominated by students at the local Camborne Science and International Academy as their charity of the year. I shall visit again in a few weeks as part of the preparations for Christmas, and I am sure that many hon. Members will be doing the same in their constituencies.

The food bank movement has grown in recent years, there is no doubt about that. However, we must recognise that there has always been charitable support and food aid on offer in this country, whether from the Salvation Army or other projects. Food banks were developed first in the United States, and the concept caught on in countries such as France and Germany. More recently, predominantly with the leadership of church groups, they have grown in the UK as well. We should recognise their value and contribution to civil society. Many food banks, including the one in my constituency, are beginning to move on from offering just crisis aid and food support to helping people with other problems—with housing, getting a job, or other problems and issues in their lives that contribute to their need to rely on food banks. Indeed, in my constituency other agencies are brought on board, to come to the food bank. My constituency caseworker will go to the Camborne food bank this afternoon. We have an agreement that our caseworker will attend once a month, or more often if there is a need, to help people to resolve other issues in their life, such as housing and benefits. The Government have also made it clear that job coaches from local jobcentres can go to food banks to help to support people in getting a job.

I want to talk about aspects of the analysis that the hon. Member for South Shields gave with which I disagree slightly, beginning with food prices, which I think are the nub of the debate. Food prices, and commodity prices generally, are predominantly governed by changes in weather events, energy prices and exchange rates. The truth is that the biggest spike in food prices in recent times took place in 2008, during the financial crisis. Prices continued to rise gradually until the beginning of 2014, but they have been falling ever since, for almost three years now. In fact, food prices are now down by more than 7% since that peak at the beginning of 2014. I accept that with sterling depreciating against the euro and other currencies recently, and because currencies and exchange rates are a major driver of food prices, that may change, but it is important to acknowledge how things have changed in the past three years, with food prices going down substantially.

The long-standing measure of household food security that we have is the annual living costs and food survey. We look in particular at the percentage of household income spent on food by the poorest 20% of families. The reality of that consistent measure of household food security and affordability, which we have had for many years, is that it has been remarkably stable in the past decade at about 16% to 16.5%. Indeed, at one point last year I think the percentage spent by that lowest-income 20% of households was lower than it was in 2008-09. So there is clear evidence that there is some stability, if we look specifically at household spending.

[Mary Glindon]

Is it true that people suffering food insecurity do not buy the best food that they could—the food they need to have a nutritious meal? Do they not often buy food that is calorie-laden, cheap and filling, as opposed to good-quality, nutritious food?

--- Later in debate ---

[George Eustice]

Given that food prices go up and down but household expenditure on food seems to remain remarkably consistent, it suggests, as the hon. Lady points out, that people change their choices and preferences. The hon. Member for South Shields made the point that people abandon fruit and veg because they regard it as too expensive. In my view, veg is actually relatively cheap at a supermarket or any other market. It tends to be other things—ready meals and meats, in particular—that are more expensive and add to the cost of food. Fruit and veg, which are the healthiest option of all, are still relatively cheap.

[Mary Glindon]

One of the reasons for that given by people who are in food insecurity is the relatively short life of some fruit and veg. Fruit and veg is perhaps beyond the tight budgets of those who cannot afford to buy fresh food every day.

[George Eustice]

I buy fresh fruit and veg, as I am sure do many other Members. Somebody made a point earlier about sell-by dates. The truth is that veg will actually last quite a long time if it is refrigerated, in my view. Of course, there is also frozen fruit and veg, which is also relatively cheap.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister is being most generous to all of us in giving way. I am sure he recognises the importance of home economics classes for children at every level of school, including primary and, particularly, secondary schools. Those classes are and should be very much part of pupils’ lives. They give them the opportunity to produce a meal at a reasonable price, and it is good for a child or young person to do that and take that meal home. Does the Minister value home economics education in schools and how it teaches people to prepare meals in later life, as I do?

[George Eustice]

I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman. He will be aware that the Department for Education launched the school food plan two or three years ago. Hardwired into that, as well as giving schools quite specific criteria about the type of healthy and nutritious food they should have as part of their school meals, was the idea that all schoolchildren should visit a farm, so that they can see how their food is produced and understand the connection with that food production. There was also the idea that primary school children should be taught to prepare a basic food dish, so that they get used to managing and handling food. That means that they know where their food comes from and how to handle it. I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman that that is an important point.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has recently consulted on all of its statistical surveys. For each Office for National Statistics survey, including the living costs and food survey, there is a steering group that also includes representation from the devolved Administrations.

As we all know, the best route out of poverty is to have a job or to find employment. It is important to note that employment is now at a record high, at more than 74.5%, and that the number of people in work has actually gone up by 461,000 this year, to record levels. I recognise that in many constituencies, including my own, the issue is not so much worklessness as low pay. That is why the Government are increasing the national living wage to £7.50 from April 2017—and we have made clear that we intend to increase it further. We need to tackle low income, and we have outlined our plans to do so.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

Will the Government actually check and enforce that the national living wage is being paid? Their record on that is woeful; a lot of places do not pay the national living wage and the Government are just not interested.

[George Eustice]

It is not a DEFRA role to enforce that particular area, but I am sure that the Low Pay Commission and other parts of Government will look seriously at the points the hon. Lady raises. Payment of the national living wage is a legal requirement, and it is enforced.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

It is generous of the Minister to give way. Does he accept that under-25s are not entitled to the higher rate of the minimum wage and are not going to get any kind of discount when they go to the shops for their messages? The Government should make sure that the living wage is a real living wage, as set by the Living Wage Foundation, and is accessible to people of all ages. Everyone needs access to food that they can afford.

[George Eustice]

The hon. Lady points out that the national living wage applies to those over the age of 25, but the national minimum wage applies to people of all ages, including those under 25.

[Alison Thewliss]

Not the higher rate.

[George Eustice]

The hon. Lady is right that it is not that at the same rate as the national living wage, but we have made great progress in recent years in tackling youth unemployment and helping people to get their first job in life. I actually think there is a distinction between those over the age of 25, who have been in work for some time, and those who may be trying their first job.

Not everybody is in work, and it is often said that late benefit payments or sanctions are a contributing factor in increased food bank use. It is worth noting that even the Trussell Trust’s report suggested that, based on its assessments, sanctions accounted for about 5% to 10% of the increased use of food banks. They do not account for all of it on their own.

When it comes to late payments, 90% of jobseeker’s allowance claims are now paid on time and within the 10-day limit, while nearly 89% of employment and support allowance claims are also paid within that timeframe, which is considerably better than in 2009-10. Indeed, the timeliness of payments has improved by about 23%. The Government have also responded to concerns over occasions when people have their payments delayed by introducing short-term benefit advances. Those are now being quite actively publicised in jobcentres, and they can be paid to people the very next day.

It is important to note that the use of sanctions has fallen sharply. Indeed, they are down by half for both JSA and ESA claimants in the year to March 2016. The Government have introduced the concept of mandatory considerations on sanctions so that we can deal with disputes more quickly. The truth is that we need some kind of sanctions in the benefit system for it to be fair and equitable. Staff at my local jobcentre are clear that they use sanctions as only a last resort. Even when they believe sanctions are justified, they have to be cleared by somebody up the line completely unconnected to the case in question. Often, the recommendation that there should be a sanction is not upheld. Huge progress has been made on sanctions. We have responded to some of the points that people have made, and, as I said, their use has halved in recent years.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

I am listening carefully to what the Minister is saying about sanctions. The head of the National Audit Office recently said that

“there is more to do in…reducing them further”.

Does the Minister disagree?

[George Eustice]

I have not seen that particular report, but I make the point to the hon. Lady that the number of sanctions halving in one year is, I believe, a dramatic change to what has gone previously. As I said, I believe that having some sort of sanctions is crucial if we are to have a fair benefits system. We cannot have a fair system if there is no kind of penalty or sanctions for those who do not abide by their obligation to seek work.

A number of hon. Members mentioned food waste, which is an important issue. There is always going to be some surplus food in any food chain. We have the Waste and Resources Action Programme and the Courtauld commitments, which aim to reduce food waste. WRAP’s research from 2015 showed that 47,000 tonnes of food—the equivalent of 90 million meals—was redistributed to help feed people. In the hierarchy of recycling, making sure that food does not go to waste in the first place, and is used to feed people, is our key aim. I commend and applaud the great work that organisations such as FareShare and FoodCycle do to help unwanted food from places such as supermarkets go towards helping local communities.

We have had an interesting debate, and again I commend the food banks in our constituencies for all their good work. We have a lot of statistical measures of poverty, and when it comes to the affordability of food, the long-standing metric of household expenditure on food is the most reliable and consistent indicator we have. I am therefore not persuaded at the moment that we need an additional set of questions along the lines that hon. Members have outlined. I take issue with those who say that we have ignored some of these issues. Indeed, huge progress has been made on sanctions, getting people into work, raising wage levels and ensuring that good food is recycled to those who need it.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

I thank all hon. Members for their contributions. It is always good to hear from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and my neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for North Tyneside (Mary Glindon), who spoke from the Front Bench today.

It is no surprise that the Minister disagrees with my analysis, but would it not have made a nice, refreshing change if he and his Government had held their hands up and admitted that their experiment with the welfare state has left an enduring and growing scar on this country? Food banks moving on to helping people with housing and all the other issues that have been referred to is yet another example of agencies and charities filling a gap left by his Government. They should not be doing that work—those are the basic tenets of government.

The nub of the debate is not food prices, as the Minister said. It is the fact that his Government’s policies have led to hunger and poverty on a massive scale and that they are refusing to measure it, despite there having been no national measurement for 10 years. He referred briefly to benefit sanctions and said he was not aware of the NAO report I mentioned. To be clear, 400,000 sanctions were imposed last year, despite there being limited evidence of their being justified, leading to “hardship, hunger and depression”. I suggest he goes and reads that report carefully.

[George Eustice]

It may be that we should exchange notes after the debate, but in the year to March 2016, there were 219,000 JSA sanctions, which was down from 497,000 in the same period in the previous year.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

The figures I am quoting are from November this year, when the report came out, so perhaps we should share notes.

It is a real shame that the Minister is out of step with everybody else on this. He is out of step with the cross-party APPG, the cross-party Select Committee, the Food Foundation, Sustain and Oxfam, which have all worked tirelessly on this issue. It is a real shame that he has not got the guts to press his Government to introduce a national measurement of household food insecurity. It would cost only up to £75,000 a year. That is considerably less than his annual salary and a little less than the salaries of most people in this House. I will not detain the House any longer, because I am getting angry, and I am upset.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered household food insecurity measurement in the UK.

UK Fishing Industry

George Eustice Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I begin by commending members of the all-party group on fisheries for bringing forward this annual debate on fisheries as we approach the December Council.

This will be my fourth December Council arguing over fisheries quotas. In that time, some things have changed: we have more stocks fished at MSY than previously, and the numbers are growing. Some of the challenges, particularly in the North sea, have receded, and the stocks are in a better situation. However, in other areas, some things have stayed the same. We still have challenges with bass, and stocks such as cod, haddock and whiting in the Celtic sea.

Sadly, it is also still the case that fishing remains, as many hon. Members have pointed out, one of the most dangerous occupations. This is an opportunity for me to pay tribute to all our fishermen who take risks to bring sea fish to our table. I am also sad to report that over the past year, since our previous debate, nine fishermen have lost their lives. I know that all hon. Members will wish to join me in expressing our sincere condolences to the families and friends who have suffered those tragic losses.

I want to cover as many of the important points that have been raised in today’s debate as possible. The context for this year’s debate is clearly very different from those of previous years, following our decision to leave the European Union. We are committed to acting on the decision taken by the British people, to withdrawing from the common fisheries policy and to putting in place a new fisheries regime.

As an independent coastal state outside the EU, the UK would be fully responsible, under international law, for control of the waters in our exclusive economic zone and for the management of those resources within it, including fisheries. The Government remain committed to being a champion of sustainable fisheries and to ending discards, as set out in our manifesto. We are also committed to continued co-operation with other countries over the management of shared stocks. In future, our role in relation to the annual setting of quotas will change fundamentally, but our overall objective of championing sustainable fisheries and ending wasteful discards remains as strong as ever.

[Calum Kerr (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (SNP)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[George Eustice]

I am going to persevere, if I may. EU exit is an opportunity to develop arrangements for fishing that can better meet the UK Government’s objectives to deliver a financially self-sufficient and profitable seafood sector, and a cleaner, healthier and more productive environment.

I will return to many of the comments made by Members, particularly in relation to post-Brexit policy, but first I want to deal with the December Council. While we remain a member of the EU, we will, of course, continue to participate fully and constructively in the December Fisheries Councils and the related negotiations. They are vital to our industry, since they set the catching opportunities for the vast majority of commercially important fishing stocks.

I have already had many meetings with stakeholders. We had a meeting with the devolved Administrations and stakeholders in Cardiff some weeks ago. The Government’s objectives in the forthcoming Council are to secure a fair and balanced deal that supports our fishing industry and the long-term sustainability of our fisheries. We will seek to increase the number of stocks being fished sustainably. That means managing stocks at maximum sustainable yield wherever possible, although some stocks might need to undergo a staged transition to MSY, especially where we need to avoid discards and bycatch.

We and other EU member states have made good progress in putting fisheries on a more sustainable basis. For example, 31 of the 59 stocks for which we have full analytical assessments in the north-east Atlantic and surrounding waters are now fished in accordance with MSY, compared with just 19 a little more than a decade ago in 2004. Some important stocks in the North sea have recovered or are in the process of recovering. While the North sea cod stock is still rebuilding, we are close to fishing it sustainably, and we will be able to bring it under the landing obligation from next year. I am pleased also that agreement has been reached to sustainably reform the EU’s discredited cod recovery plan. That was key to making the landing obligation work for cod, by removing automatic cuts in effort.

We will therefore support increases in catches when they are supported by the science. Equally, we will agree to reductions in catches where they are necessary to protect the long-term health of a stock. That applies, for example, to sole in the eastern English channel and to cod in the Celtic sea.

The Commission’s proposals generally reflect the science, although there is still a tendency to ignore the significant weight of evidence that exists on, for instance, data-limited stocks. If we look around the country, we will see that there are issues in the west country, as my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas) pointed out, with stocks such as pollock and monkfish. We have particular challenges with megrim; full analytical data have changed the recommendation in relation to that stock. I am aware that in Northern Ireland we will have the now almost annual discussion around nephrops. We will make the case that the total allowable catch set previously has been under-exploited, so we still believe that we do not need to reduce it as much.

Finally, I want to make a point about the EU-Norway deal, which is especially important to Scotland, and the coastal states agreement. EU bilateral fishery agreements with Norway, the Faroe Islands and Greenland, and the coastal states agreement on mackerel, blue whiting and Atlanto-Scandian herring, remain of the utmost importance to the UK fishing industry. This year’s negotiations have already resulted in positive outcomes for the UK, with increases in quota for mackerel, blue whiting and Atlanto-Scandian herring, which we estimate to be worth in excess of an extra £20 million for the UK fleet. However, more needs to be done to secure the long-term sustainability of those stocks.

I turn to some of the points made by hon. Members. The hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Melanie Onn), who opened the debate, made the point that I attended her constituency during the referendum campaign. I did—I shared a platform with her predecessor as we made the case for leaving the EU. The hon. Lady mentioned the cod wars. Overwhelmingly, the developments that had the greatest impact on the fishing industry in Grimsby, where our long-distance fishing industry was based, were the three cod wars during the late 1960s and early 1970s. After the cod wars, it became effectively a norm of international law, through the UN convention on the law of the sea, that countries would have an exclusive economic zone extending to 200 nautical miles. Ironically, we would be asking, going forward, for something that is now a norm under international law, and which became so after our loss of the third cod war.

The hon. Lady suggested that I made unrealistic pledges during the referendum campaign. During that campaign, I exercised my right to campaign as a free, independent MP, but I fully intended that the leave campaign would win, and I fully hoped that I would be back in position and able to see through the changes that I believe are necessary to deliver sustainable fisheries. We will abide by international law in the United Kingdom, and we will expect the European Union to respect and abide by international law. As several hon. Members have said, our European partners have a right to expect us, as the UK, to behave honourably and decently towards them as we put in place new fisheries arrangements and a new type of partnership. They can get that from us, and we should expect the same from them. It is important, as the shadow Minister said, that we get the tone right as we approach the negotiations. We are seeking change, but it is a requirement of UNCLOS that we co-operate with other countries, that we have regard to historical access rights and, crucially, that we work together on shared stocks.

My hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) and my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson), who has written papers about fisheries, highlighted an important area of future management—the relative merits of a control system based on effort and days at sea, and a quota regime. The truth is that there are pros and cons to each. A quota system is generally considered to make far more sense for pelagic species, with single-species stocks being targeted. In a very mixed fishery, as we have in parts of the west country and parts of the inshore fleet, an effort-based regime with a national target for quota arguably makes more sense.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire highlighted the experience of the Faroe Islands, and I confirm to him that we are looking at the approach taken there, just as we are looking at the approach taken in Iceland and many other countries around the world. He asked me to consider whether we might do a pilot in this area. We have not ruled that out, but we are not yet in a position to make a decision to go forward with it.

The right hon. Member for Tynemouth (Mr Campbell) talked about the Farn Deeps. He will be aware that we agreed with the Commission last year to take some steps on that nationally and to get agreement on technical measures. We have taken steps to try to safeguard that fishery, predominantly for the local fleet around North Shields. He asked whether leaving the EU strengthens our position. It probably does, in that that will make it easier for us to put in place technical measures without our necessarily having to get agreement at EU level. He also mentioned infrastructure. While we are in the EU, we still have access to the European maritime and fisheries fund, and obviously we will look at other options in the future.

My hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (Sir Henry Bellingham) mentioned shrimp fishing in his constituency. He is aware that that is a matter for IFCA, which is consulting at the moment. It is suggesting a restriction on 14% of the special area of conservation, which is less than 14% of the fishery.

The right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw), the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) and many others mentioned trade deals. It is important to point out a misunderstanding that some hon. Members, including the shadow Minister, have. Although Norway and Iceland are in the European economic area, and therefore part of the customs union for other goods, the EEA does not cover fisheries. With fisheries, we have a series of preferential trade agreements. It is therefore incorrect to claim, as several hon. Members have, that Iceland and Norway are in the customs union or the EEA for the purposes of fisheries. That is not the case.

The right hon. Member for Exeter and my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Scott Mann) mentioned bass. We hope to make progress this year. They know that I have consistently made the case in the past two years. The science suggested that the measures that we took last year would get us to MSY by 2018. Since then, the science has deteriorated and there has been poor recruitment, so there are some challenging decisions to make and we have consistently argued for change.

The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) mentioned the access given to the Faroes, particularly to some of the pelagic species. He knows that those negotiations are currently led by the EU and that, although we often raise objections and concerns, they can be overruled as things stand. It is one of the reasons why the pelagic fishing fleet greatly looks forward to the UK leaving the EU and regaining its seat in important coastal states negotiations.

Several hon. Members mentioned choke species. I am aware that that is an issue. Indeed, the UK, as chair of the north-west waters regional group, put it on the agenda of the November Fisheries Council. We are working on several possible options, including a de minimis bycatch exemption or a group total allowable catch for some of the small species. That is not an insurmountable problem, but we recognise the challenge.

The hon. Member for North East Fife (Stephen Gethins) mentioned the importance of involving Scotland in the negotiations. I can confirm that we are doing that. The Scottish fisheries Minister always joins me in the trilateral discussions with the presidency and the Commission. However, it is important that the UK Minister who is accountable to Members of Parliament from right across the UK represents the UK at those discussions.

We have heard many other points, which I am sure that hon. Members will raise with me afterwards. We will seek a balanced deal, and we have exciting times ahead as we develop our future fisheries policy.

November Agriculture Council

George Eustice Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2016 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I represented the UK at the Agriculture and Fisheries Council on 14 and 15 November in Brussels.

Commissioner Vella presented a proposal for a Council regulation setting deep sea fishing opportunities for 2017 and 2018. Commissioner Vella noted there were challenges in setting total allowable catches (TACs). The UK, Poland, Sweden and Denmark stressed the need to protect stocks, although Denmark noted that the TACs should not be lowered too far or these stocks would become obstacles to fully implementing the landing obligation. A compromise text mitigated some of the proposed cuts, while still providing adequate protections, and was therefore unanimously agreed.

Commissioner Vella presented proposals for the North Sea multi-annual plan (MAP). The UK, Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Belgium and Poland expressed their general support for the proposal. However, the UK, echoed by France and Denmark had concerns that some of the additional controls would increase the administrative burden without any commensurate benefit.

Mr Cees Veerman, Chairman of the Agricultural Markets Taskforce (AMT), presented the report of the AMT and the main recommendations within it, which set the agenda for future work. They included strengthening market transparency, and setting out a framework including a list of prohibited, basic unfair trading practices (UTPs) which would carry the penalty of sanctions. The UK welcomed that the AMT largely based the recommendations for UTPs on the work of the UK groceries code adjudicator.

Commissioner Hogan and Vice-President Katainen presented the DG AGRI report on the cumulative impact of free trade association (FTA) concessions on agriculture. Commissioner Hogan stressed that it did not represent a projected outcome of the 12 ongoing or potential EU-third country FTAs within its scope. The report analysed the cumulative economic impacts of tariff liberalisation through two theoretical scenarios. Overall, the conclusions were balanced and confirmed potential for net trade gains. Vice-President Katainen set the report in the context of the EU’s wider free trade, jobs and growth agenda. The UK underlined its long-standing support for tariff-free access and reduced non-tariff barriers, but noted that agriculture goes beyond questions of simple economics.

Any other business items

The UK introduced an item on behalf of the North Western Waters regional group on the landing obligation. It drew attention to the good progress made so far in implementing the landing obligation, a key part of the last reform of the common fisheries policy (CFP), but also the potential problem of choke species had to be dealt with. The UK presented ongoing work in the regions on this issue and pressed the Commission to heed it. The UK points were supported by Portugal, Germany, Ireland, Denmark, Belgium, France, Spain, the Netherlands, Latvia and Sweden, with many thanking the UK for bringing this important issue to the table.

Greece voiced their concerns that the difference between customary names and standard names for geographical indication protected products undermined the EU system. The Commission pushed back by pointing out that the current legal wording ensures sufficient security.

Commissioner Andriukaitis announced that the Commission will establish and host the first meeting of the animal welfare platform, which will discuss best practice in this field, during the Maltese presidency. The UK’s support for this call and the need for a review of rest periods in line with current scientific advice was praised by several animal welfare charities via online media platforms.

Denmark raised concerns about the increased use of antimicrobials in the veterinary sector in some member states and called for immediate action. The UK, along with eight other member states supported this call.

[HCWS289]

Equine Slaughterhouses (CCTV)

George Eustice Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) on securing this important debate and articulating an emotive subject so sensitively. As she pointed out, people who have owned a horse all their life are often reluctant to see that horse meet its end. She acknowledged that even if we had CCTV in slaughterhouses, it would get us only so far, because people have a natural reluctance to see the horse that they have lived with for all those years go to a slaughterhouse, with all the uncertainty that they believe that would involve.

I acknowledge the work of World Horse Welfare and other groups on this issue and their long-standing campaign for mandatory CCTV in equine slaughterhouses. I must point out that this is a devolved issue and that my response to this debate applies to England. As hon. Members will know, devolved authorities in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are responsible for the welfare of animals at slaughter in their respective Administrations.

The Government share the British public’s high regard for the welfare of horses. We take seriously our responsibility to ensure that the right laws are in place to secure our horses’ welfare.

[Lady Hermon]

I am grateful to the Minister for allowing me to make an early intervention. He will know well that the lead that is set at Westminster is often followed by the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland. If this Government lead the way with compulsory CCTV in slaughterhouses, that will set a very good precedent for the Northern Ireland Assembly.

[George Eustice]

I understand that; indeed, in many areas we learn from one another when different Administrations trial different pieces of legislation; we share ideas and often work together.

A variety of laws provide protection for the welfare of horses. The Animal Welfare Act 2006 places a clear duty of care on owners and keepers to provide for the welfare needs of their horses. My hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray) discussed abandoned horses and made the important point that there are wider welfare issues that we must not lose sight of. He will be aware that, in recognition of the specific welfare issues that arise with some horses, the Government recently supported the introduction of the Control of Horses Act 2015 to help landowners and local authorities to deal with the problem of horses left on other people’s land without their permission, which can often give rise to animal welfare issues.

The Government are also firmly committed to improving standards of animal welfare at slaughter. At the end of their lives, horses are covered by WATOK—the Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing (England) Regulations 2015—which sets out requirements pertinent to the protection of animals at slaughter.

[Neil Parish]

I know that the Minister is very keen on animal welfare and does a great deal to promote it. I just wonder why it is not possible to have compulsory cameras for the slaughter of horses, both in the slaughterhouse itself and in the lairage, to ensure that the horses are handled properly all the way through. I feel that that is something that we could do, and it would not be so difficult to make it compulsory.

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend will appreciate that I will come on to all those issues, which are so pertinent to the debate.

WATOK sets out protections for all animals, regardless of whether there is CCTV in slaughterhouses. There are clear legal obligations on all operators to have standard operating procedures, including monitoring procedures, in place for all slaughter operations, as well as trained stockmen and trained slaughtermen. Official veterinarians from the Food Standards Agency are present during slaughter operations to monitor and enforce animal health and welfare regulations.

On equine slaughter specifically, several long-standing national requirements in WATOK are relevant to the special needs of horses at the time of killing—the business operator must ensure that a separate room or bay is provided for the killing of horses; no person may kill a horse in a room or a bay where there are the remains of a horse or other animal; and no horse may be killed within sight of another horse.

As several hon. Members have pointed out, there are currently five approved equine slaughterhouses in England and Wales, and they are all located in England. Three of them have CCTV installed in some areas for animal welfare purposes. Some 3,280 horses were slaughtered in the past 12 months, and the two plants without CCTV were responsible for only 32 of those animals. From the perspective of equine slaughter, then, most horses are slaughtered in premises with CCTV—

[Angela Smith]

Will the Minister give way?

[George Eustice]

I may be about to answer the hon. Lady’s point. It is important to note that CCTV is not present in all areas in the equine slaughterhouse with the highest throughput.

[Angela Smith]

Will the Minister confirm that in 2015-16 only 61 out of 4,000 horses were slaughtered in an abattoir with comprehensive coverage in all five areas?

[George Eustice]

No; the number would be far higher than that. I will have to write to the hon. Lady to confirm the figures, but the figure of 61 is for only one of the slaughterhouses—the one in Lincolnshire.

[Mr James Gray]

The Minister mentioned that in the past 12 months only 32 horses were killed in abattoirs with no CCTV; is he aware of any reason to presume that those 32 were killed under anything other than 100% humane circumstances?

[George Eustice]

The feedback we have had from the Food Standards Agency’s official veterinarians and reports is that it has not encountered any particular problems or concerns about the welfare of horses at slaughter. We should also note that the number of horses slaughtered at abattoirs in the UK has been in steady decline since 2012, when 8,426 horses were slaughtered. That fell to 5,000 by 2013, and in this past year it is down to just 3,280. That partly reflects a changing view among owners about the end-of-life choices that they have for their horses. It also reflects, as several hon. Members have said, how people are increasingly choosing to have their horses euthanised.

I want to talk about the meat of this debate, which is CCTV. As many hon. Members have said today, CCTV can and does play a useful role. Last year, the Farm Animal Welfare Committee published an interesting report that detailed the positive benefits of CCTV to slaughterhouse operators and those monitoring and verifying compliance with welfare standards. The benefits go much wider than any deterrent effect, and include, for instance, more accurate ante-mortem inspection in the lairage—for example, sheep often mask lameness if stressed when a stockman or vet is present, but behave normally under remote observation.

Another benefit is that CCTV can be a valuable training tool for operatives to encourage sensitive and sympathetic behaviour towards animals, and it can enable the spotting of any bad practices that could result in incidents or near misses. It can also allow the observation of activities in small or confined spaces that it would otherwise be difficult for the official veterinarian to observe. As the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals briefing for the debate also illustrates, it can be of use to operators and audit schemes in providing assurance that good practice and legal requirements are followed.

The Government understand the desire for the use of CCTV in all slaughterhouses, although we are yet to be convinced that it should be a mandatory requirement. I do, though, understand the calls for the Government to go further by introducing legislation to require slaughterhouses to have CCTV installed, and that official veterinarians should have unfettered access to CCTV footage. As I have made clear previously, the Government have never ruled out further action, and we keep the matter under review. I shall ensure that my noble Friend Lord Gardiner, who now has responsibility for the relevant part of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs portfolio, is made aware of the points made today. We will, of course, consider them all carefully.

It is important to highlight one other important point about CCTV made by the FAWC, which is that it is at its most powerful when used as a tool for food business operators to manage their operations and staff and to help with training. There is one area of caution here: CCTV cannot be a substitute for responsible food business operators, and nor can it replace the role of official veterinarians. If it is used, it is preferable that it is used because food business operators really want it and want to use it to improve the management of their operation. In considering legislation, we need to be careful that we do not inadvertently change the culture and thereby lose out on all the benefits from CCTV highlighted by the FAWC. It is for that reason that the Government have encouraged the voluntary take-up of CCTV in slaughterhouses, and will continue to do so.

It might help if I clarify the current situation concerning CCTV in slaughterhouses generally. The latest FSA survey figures show that in Great Britain 92% of cattle, 96% of pig, 88% of sheep and 99% of poultry throughput is currently from premises with CCTV. As the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) pointed out, the number of slaughterhouses with CCTV installed has been at the same level for the past couple of years. The numbers of high-throughput slaughterhouses with CCTV reflects the fact that, although the installation of CCTV in slaughterhouses is currently voluntary, it is also a requirement of many retailers and food assurance schemes. I acknowledge that many of the medium and smaller slaughterhouses have not yet installed CCTV. Many operators who have installed CCTV say that it is a positive training tool, so we would like to consider the issue to ensure that we get greater uptake of CCTV installation.

I shall briefly address some of the issues mentioned by hon. Members. The hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd talked about EU law. She is right that the initial intention of the great repeal Bill is that existing EU regulations will be put on to a UK legal basis, but I should point out that there is currently nothing in EU law that would prevent us from legislating to introduce mandatory CCTV if we so wished. This also relates to a point made by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for North Tyneside (Mary Glindon). I do not intend to blame the EU and say that we cannot do it because it is not required; it is not required under EU law, but there is nothing in EU law that would prohibit it.

The hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd also mentioned the cost. I have said in previous debates that the cost is indeed modest. She said that it can be under £1,000, and it can be for single cameras, as I have pointed out previously. However, when the FAWC looked into the cost, it estimated that for most abattoirs the cost of installing CCTV in the areas that people would want covered, which would require several cameras and additional monitoring systems, would be £3,000 to £10,000. As I have said previously and will say again, though, that is a relatively modest cost.

[Mr James Gray]

Does the Minister accept that there is a risk that the number of abattoirs killing horses and the number of horses killed in abattoirs might well decline further if CCTV is made compulsory? Many abattoir owners will simply say, “Why bother with horses?”, because they are a huge hassle anyhow and the carcass value is very low. Is there not at least a risk that the small number of abattoirs will become smaller?

[George Eustice]

There is another, wider point. This debate is focused specifically on CCTV at the point of horses’ slaughter, but all five of the slaughterhouses that are licensed to slaughter horses also slaughter other animals. The reality is that, were anybody to consider measures on CCTV, I am not sure there would be a specific reason to single out those abattoirs licensed for horses. I think that if someone was going to install CCTV, they would take a broader view, across all species, because the principles involved are broadly the same for each species.

The final point that I will make on the speech of the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd relates to her claim that in the case of horse abattoirs there is not retail pressure. I think she is missing a point here, as all five abattoirs also slaughter other animals—other farm livestock. That is probably why three of the five already have CCTV.

I know that my hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale) has been a long-standing campaigner on a wide range of animal welfare issues. He made a separate legislative point, saying that if there is not time for primary legislation to address this issue, perhaps the Government should give a fair wind to a private Member’s Bill. Obviously, private Member’s Bills are an issue for the House and for private Members; it is open to anyone at any time to bring one forward. However, I am not sure that we would need primary legislation if we decided to address this issue. Potentially it could be dealt with under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, which has quite wide provisions to deal with these types of things. Nevertheless, I take on board his point, and if any Back Bencher wanted to introduce such legislation, they could obviously do so.

[Sir Roger Gale]

Will my hon. Friend the Minister undertake to have a look at the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and see whether it is possible to introduce a statutory instrument to achieve this aim?

[George Eustice]

As I think I explained to my hon. Friend, my belief is that we probably could.

I will move on to the point that my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire made. He brought a refreshing sense of balance to this debate; we always need to question ourselves when we consider new measures of this sort. He made the very important point that we have had serious welfare breaches in slaughterhouses where there has been CCTV, so we should not see CCTV as a panacea for these problems. There are strong arguments for CCTV in slaughterhouses, but some of the breaches of animal welfare have been in slaughterhouses that already have CCTV.

Finally, the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for North Tyneside, mentioned access to footage. If the Food Standards Agency is conducting an investigation, it already has access to footage where CCTV exists; it can require access to that footage. Also, the British Meat Processors Association and others have developed protocols with their members about how to store, share and use data, where it is available.

[Mary Glindon]

Will the Minister give way?

[George Eustice]

I will give way only briefly, because I want to give the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd time to reply to the debate.

[Mary Glindon]

It was simply to say that the Government do not keep a national record of incidents. Such a record would be really beneficial.

[George Eustice]

We are obviously aware of prosecutions brought by the FSA nationally. So, where there are incidents or breaches, we get involved, and I am often involved in sanctioning the withdrawal of licences and other such sanctions.

In conclusion, I again thank all hon. Members for their contribution to this interesting debate. It is about 18 months since I last responded to a debate on the issue of CCTV in slaughterhouses. While the evidence on the impact of CCTV on animal welfare within slaughterhouses has probably changed a little in that period, I do take on board all the issues that have been raised today. In addition, I note that take-up of CCTV among some of the smaller abattoirs has plateaued over the last two years.

I reiterate that, as well as helping to protect the welfare of animals, many of the benefits of CCTV in slaughterhouses that were identified by the Farm Animal Welfare Committee’s report also help the slaughterhouse operator. Also, the Government have never ruled out mandatory steps on CCTV in slaughterhouses, although we have always encouraged voluntary uptake.

I assure the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd that this Government remain committed to promoting high animal welfare standards and protecting animal welfare on-farm, in transport and at slaughter, and I hope that I have been able to address some of the concerns that have been raised today.

Oral Answers to Questions

George Eustice Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab)]

2. What progress she has made on publishing the 25-year great British food and farming plan.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

We remain committed to publishing a 25-year food and farming plan. However, the context has changed significantly following the decision to leave the EU, which creates many new opportunities to do things differently and better. We will therefore develop the 25-year food and farming plan alongside our plans for leaving the EU, and we will consult with both industry and the public.

[Liz McInnes]

I thank the Minister for that response, which fills me with concern. I hope that he will bring the report forward as soon as possible, given that the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs recommended that it be published in April this year. Can he give me some indication of when we will see this important report?

[George Eustice]

The hon. Lady is wrong to be concerned, because as I have made clear, we are committed to publishing the plan. It is a manifesto commitment. There was no commitment to publish it in April; there is a commitment to do so in this Parliament, and as I have said, the context has changed significantly. It is right to develop the plan alongside our plan to leave the European Union, so that it bears relevance to the context.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

The great British breakfast cereal Weetabix is made in Burton Latimer in the Kettering constituency, and the wheat for Weetabix is grown on farms within a 50-mile radius. What proportion of the nation’s food do we grow ourselves, and what proportion would the Minister like us to grow ourselves?

[George Eustice]

With regard to the food that we can produce in this country, my hon. Friend will be aware that we produce around 74% of what we consume. If we include foods that we are unable to grow here, the percentage is slightly lower. We have a commitment to having a vibrant, profitable farming industry. We want to grow more, sell more and import less, and if we achieve all that, our self-sufficiency will improve over time.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Given the impact that Brexit will inevitably have on the 25-year food and farming plan, which has yet to be published, what discussions will the Minister have with the Northern Ireland Executive about how the plan will accommodate Brexit, particularly when it comes to agricultural exports, on which we rely for the development of our economy, as he will realise?

[George Eustice]

I have already had meetings with Michelle McIlveen, and I recently visited Northern Ireland, where I met the Northern Ireland Food and Drink Association and spoke at its dinner, so I am already in close engagement with the Northern Ireland Executive, and indeed the Northern Ireland industry, on these issues.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

13. The Wight Marque scheme, which is supported by partners Red Funnel, Taste of the Wight and the Isle of Wight County Press, is doing great work to promote truly local produce. This is an example of a small amount of money doing a lot of good for a growing and important part of the island’s economy. What steps are the Government taking to highlight the benefits that such schemes have in rural areas?

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The Wight Marque, which the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’s rural development programme helped to establish, celebrates the Isle of Wight’s brilliant food culture by accrediting local produce. DEFRA fully supports accreditation schemes. They are an opportunity to showcase local and sustainable food, they can make a real contribution to local economies, and they are completely in line with DEFRA’s approach to strengthening our brand.

[Ms Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

3. What assessment she has made of the potential effect of the UK’s decision to leave the EU on the rural economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con)]

5. What steps she is taking to support the milk industry.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

Although there are limits to what Governments can do when there is a global downturn in commodity prices, we have implemented a number of measures over the past two years. We made a crisis payment to farmers at the end of last year, we have extended tax averaging to make it easier to offset tax from good years, and we have supported intervention and private storage schemes. Looking to the future, we are working with industry to develop risk management tools such as futures markets, supporting new producer organisations, and opening new export markets.

[Chris White]

I welcome efforts to increase exports of food and drink, but there is still concern about the domestic market in milk. What efforts are being made to ensure that farmers obtain fair prices from supermarkets, and what assistance could the Groceries Code Adjudicator provide?

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend has made a good point. These have been two very difficult years for the dairy industry. However, I think we should give credit where it is due, and acknowledge that many of the major supermarkets offer their farmers aligned contracts that are linked to the cost of production. Those farmers have continued to obtain good prices over the last two years. Nevertheless, they are a minority, so we are investigating ways of strengthening the negotiating position of farmers in the supply chain, such as reviewing the operation of the Groceries Code Adjudicator, strengthening the voluntary dairy supply chain code, and strengthening recognition of producer organisations.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

What assessment has the Department made of the importance of the provision of school and nursery milk in supporting dairy farmers?

[George Eustice]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, there is a small European Union scheme to support school milk, which is worth a few million pounds, but it is dwarfed by the much larger, much more important nursery milk scheme run by the Department for Education and the Department of Health, which is worth some £60 million a year.

[Mr Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con)]

The Government’s proposal to withdraw operating licences for approved finishing units with grazing in culling areas is causing great concern to dairy farmers in the south-west. Has the Minister assessed the impact that that measure will have on dairy farmers’ ability to sell their calves, and generally on the market for livestock in the south-west? I urge him to think carefully about it before introducing it.

[George Eustice]

I can reassure my hon. and learned Friend that I consider such issues very carefully. Approved finishing units do have an important role to play as we try to tackle the long-term challenge of bovine tuberculosis, but if we are trying to roll back the disease, the risk associated with grazing on approved finishing units is greater. It is still possible to have a licence for housed finishing units, and there will still be finishing units in other areas where there is no cull.

[Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

The Department’s farm business survey for last year shows that dairy farm incomes fell by 50%, largely owing to lower milk prices. Will the Minister consider introducing a statutory code to safeguard the dairy sector, and will he agree to expand the role of the Groceries Code Adjudicator to cover the primary producers’ relationships with their suppliers and provide more stability for those producers in the market?

[George Eustice]

A consultation on the Groceries Code Adjudicator is in progress and is, I believe, open until 10 January. We have issued a call for evidence from the industry, and from others who may have ideas about how we might be able to extend the adjudicator’s remit or consider it further.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

6. What steps the Government are taking to encourage young people to take up a career in the fishing industry.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

We predominantly deliver training for new entrants and young people through the levy body Seafish. Since 2011, Seafish has run 97 courses and trained more than 850 new fishermen. There has been a renewed interest in fishing as a career in recent years.

[Oliver Colvile]

The fishermen in Plymouth are very positive about the future of the fishing industry post-Brexit. They want to improve the commercial fishing facilities at Sutton harbour. Will my hon. Friend find a date to visit Plymouth Trawler Agents, which manages the fish market, and learn of its plans to build a fishing academy to train the fishermen and women of the future?

[George Eustice]

As we prepare to leave the EU, the mood in the fishing industry is certainly lifting, and there will be opportunities to do things differently and better. My hon. Friend’s constituency has a very proud maritime heritage. Last year I visited the Marine Biological Association and I would of course be more than happy to visit Sutton harbour to discuss the scheme he describes.

[Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)]

Many of our coastal communities have suffered heinously under the common fisheries policy. Will the Minister look at the idea of an investment pot for the under-10 metre fleet to enable it to get up to speed when we leave the EU?

[George Eustice]

As my hon. Friend knows, we have the European maritime and fisheries fund, one of the EU structural funds, which will run until 2020. Looking beyond 2020, we will be developing and working to establish how best to support the industry. We have also top-sliced some of the uplift of quota linked to the discard ban this year to give the under-10s more quota than they previously had.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

7. What steps she has taken to minimise the risk of winter flooding.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

T3. Is the fisheries Minister aware that the shell fishery in the Wash is now the most prolific in Europe? We have recently seen record catches of shrimp, much of which is exported. However, this part of the fishery is at risk because of a permit system. Will he look into the situation, intervene and do his best to ensure that the fishery continues to thrive?

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

My hon. Friend has raised this issue with me before, so I am well aware of it. I am also aware that it is a matter for the local Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Agency, although DEFRA does have a role in working with IFCA and signing off any proposals. I understand that this particular case is at the consultation stage, so local fishermen should make their views known at this point.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

The pound has fallen, the cost of imports has risen and Brexit is costing the wine industry £413 million more in imports alone. From Marmitegate to the Toblerone gap, we have seen rising prices across the food industry. Customers are paying more for food while those working in farming and food production have been hit even harder. And it is getting worse. What is the Secretary of State doing to mitigate these factors?

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

In several conversations with the National Farmers Union and farmers in south Wiltshire, complaints have been made to me about how the Rural Payments Agency has been working. Edward Martin and Will Dickson complain of unilateral changes to agreed eligibility calculations. What will the Minister do to ensure that such issues are sorted out so that I do not have any more complaints from my farmers?

[George Eustice]

Having ironed out some of the difficulties we encountered in 2015, we are in a stronger position this year. The RPA reports that over 80% of basic payment scheme claims were submitted online, meaning that the number of cases requiring manual data-entry was significantly reduced. If my hon. Friend would like to give me further details of those two cases, I will ensure that they are investigated and will personally get back to him.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

T2. Will the Secretary of State tell us how much it will cost to replace the agricultural subsidy when we leave the EU?

[George Eustice]

We have committed to continue to make all payments up until 2020, and we are already engaging with the industry and others to devise future agriculture policy. Those plans will be announced well in advance of 2020.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

In my fishing town of Filey, only seven boats have been licensed by the Environment Agency and all licences will expire by 2022, ending heritage fishing in the town. Will the Minister meet me to seek a solution to secure the future of fishing in Filey?

[George Eustice]

I understand my hon. Friend’s issue. The situation with wild salmon is particularly bleak at the moment, which is why we are looking at additional measures to reduce the catch through netting. However, I am quite sympathetic to the arguments made about the sustainability of T-nets, which I understand are used along the shoreline in his constituency, and I am more than happy to meet him.

[Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab)]

T4. In the weeks immediately after the floods that devastated my constituency and others last year, the Government were able to argue that there was no evidence of market failure to deliver affordable insurance for businesses affected by the flood. Since then, however, I have had case after case of businesses being denied insurance or offered unaffordable packages. What are the Government doing to ensure that such businesses can secure affordable insurance?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

Thanks to the Minister, the sheep dip sufferers group now has access to documents including medical records from the poisons unit at Guy’s hospital, which show what many sufferers have known for years: there were long-term health impacts of using sheep dip. Will he meet us again so that we can act for those who still suffer?

[George Eustice]

The hon. Lady will be aware that I met her and others about a year ago, when we looked at this issue in depth. I subsequently went back through all the submissions that came from the chief veterinary officer in the early 1990s to establish precisely why we stopped using sheep dip, and it was not because of health concerns; it was because of a belief that it was not possible to tackle the disease. I note that she has now got the documents, but I simply say that the committee on toxicity looked at this issue exhaustively, examining 26 different studies over a period of more than a decade, and concluded that in the absence of acute poisoning there would not be meaningful long-term effects.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

Traffic hotspots in the Broomhill area of my constituency create unacceptably high levels of nitrogen dioxide. The council is doing what it can, but it is frustrated by the Government on issues such as the deregulation of taxi licensing. We need joined-up action across government, and as the High Court said earlier this month, we need it urgently. So when will the Government produce an effective and comprehensive air quality plan?

East Anglian Fishing Fleet

George Eustice Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) on securing the debate. He is a long-standing champion of the fishing industry generally and the under-10 metre sector in Lowestoft in his constituency specifically. Lowestoft is also home to CEFAS, the world’s greatest centre of excellence for fisheries science, and long may it continue to be so.

My hon. Friend described some of the history of the decline of fishing in areas such as Lowestoft and along the east coast. The reasons are varied. He highlighted the decline of the herring industry, for example, and the fact that herring became a less popular fish in this country. Further north, the decline of fishing in places such as Grimsby can be plotted against the cod wars and the UK long-distance fleet being displaced from the waters around Iceland. Now that we are leaving the European Union, however, we have many opportunities to reform and change the way we manage fisheries in our exclusive economic zone.

My hon. Friend made it clear that he had campaigned to remain. I should probably point out that I campaigned to leave, and one of my reasons for doing so was my experience as a Fisheries and an Agriculture Minister over three years, which meant that I saw up close how EU law works in practice, as well as in theory. That made me conclude that we would do better if we took back control and made our own laws—we could get things done and change things when they needed changing.

In the specific context of fisheries, I highlighted two issues in the referendum campaign. First, at the moment we allow the EU to lead for us in important negotiations on pelagic species such as mackerel, and on the North sea with countries such as Norway. Those negotiations would be more effective if we had a seat at the table. Secondly, leaving the EU gives us an opportunity to revisit the allocation of quotas, which in some cases is unfair—parts of the fleet do not get a fair share of the agreed international quota.

Now the referendum is over, however, it is important that we all stop fighting the referendum campaign. For me, the real challenge is to put together a new type of partnership to recognise what the people of this country were telling us: they want us to take back control, although they also want us to put in place a close working partnership with other countries. They want us to be an outward-looking country, which we certainly will be as the UK.

In the referendum campaign, I was also clear that some things would not change. First, we will still fish sustainably and in line with the science. The UK has been the champion of sustainable fisheries. Secondly, we need to have some kind of quota or effort regime to restrict fishing effort, because in a mixed fishery that is the only way to have sustainable fisheries. Thirdly, I was very clear that we must continue to strive to end the shameful practice of discarding perfectly good fish back into the sea. That remains a manifesto commitment and an objective of future policy. Finally, the reality of fisheries is such that there will always need to be a large degree of international negotiation. That will not change.

We are working on new policy, and a huge amount of analysis is going on. My hon. Friend will be reassured to know that many of the issues that he highlighted towards the end of his speech are indeed ones that we are looking at—I will touch on some in more detail. Broadly speaking, however, we have a good starting point in the United Nations convention on the law of the sea, which sets down certain principles on how we should manage fisheries in our exclusive economic zone—inside 200 nautical miles or the median line—and requirements such as the duty to co-operate with other countries, which we of course would do. They, in turn, have a duty to co-operate with us. The convention sets it down that we should have regard for historic access rights, but other countries should have regard for ours. Crucially, however, in our exclusive economic zone we will have the opportunity to change technical measures when they need to be changed, far more quickly.

My hon. Friend raised a number of issues specific to Lowestoft that I will touch on. First, he highlighted the fact that many of the vessels in the Lowestoft Fish Producers Organisation are foreign-owned—many are Dutch—and that a large amount of the catch is landed in the Netherlands and in Scotland. We are looking at that issue. We are about to review what is called the economic link, which is a set of conditions and criteria with which foreign-owned vessels must comply. We are looking at strengthening the link so that more benefits can be returned to local fishing ports such as Lowestoft, for whose vessels the quota was intended. We are planning to consult on the link and we will be looking at it as part of our longer-term review of things such as the concordat with other parts of the UK and as we develop future fisheries policy.

[Sir Henry Bellingham]

Will the Minister comment briefly on the point I made about the shrimp fishery and the Wash, and the damage that could be done by the MSC?

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend has raised the issue with me. It is a matter for the IFCA, but I have asked officials to keep me informed.

My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney drew attention to the under-10s. As he knows, we have a manifesto commitment to rebalance quotas towards the under-10 metre fleet, because the historic problem from when the quotas were set is that the under-10s probably did not get a fair enough share of the quota. We are already delivering on that manifesto commitment. Only this year, we made it clear that in the discard uplift of the quota, the first 100 tonnes and then 10% thereafter would go to the under-10s. That means that this year alone they have already had 1,000 extra tonnes of fish, 573 tonnes of which are in the North sea, including more than 200 extra tonnes of haddock, 100 tonnes of saithe and 159 tonnes of plaice. We have already started to deliver on that and, as we roll out the discard ban, there will be further increases for the under-10 fleet—notably, cod is likely to be added for the North sea.

My hon. Friend mentioned access to the six-to-12 nautical miles zone, which dates from the London convention of 1964 and so predates us entering the CFP. We have had strong representations from the industry, however, that it would like to see that reviewed and to have exclusive access for our inshore UK vessels in the nought-to-12 zone. We are looking at that, but we have not yet taken any final decisions.

My hon. Friend mentioned the challenge of pulse trawlers. Indeed, I visited Lowestoft in his constituency back in June and I met local fishermen, who expressed that concern to me. I then asked CEFAS to do some work urgently to review the impact of pulse trawling, because there are potential issues of concern—countries such as Japan have already taken action to curtail or prevent pulse trawling. I therefore assure him that CEFAS is looking at the issue.

My hon. Friend mentioned flagship issues. A lot of that goes back to the important Factortame test case, which was a big tussle between the sovereignty of Parliament and EU law. There is an opportunity to re-examine that as we leave the EU, but again we have made no prior decisions. The area is complex and we should recognise that the licences, vessels and attached quotas were sold by UK fishermen—we have to recognise that—but I also believe that through the changes to the economic link, which we are planning to consult on, we can go some way towards addressing that concern.

I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of trade. It is important to note that for countries such as Norway, which are in the European economic area, the customs union does not cover fisheries. Norway and Iceland, for example, therefore have separate preferential trade agreements with the EU. We will obviously be seeking to do something similar as we negotiate future trade agreements with our European partners. We are also keen to open new markets in countries such as China, Japan and others in the far east.

I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of science. We will continue to engage CEFAS closely on that. We are committed to sustainable fisheries. When it comes to adding value to fisheries in the supply chain—something else he mentioned—we have set up a seafood working group led by Seafish, pulling together industry to see how we can improve the structure of the industry and the value it gets for its catch.

Finally, I confirm to my hon. Friend that as we approach Brexit the Department is working closely with every other Department, including the Department for Communities and Local Government, and he is absolutely right that we have a great opportunity as we negotiate future policy to get something that works for our coastal communities.

Question put and agreed to.

English Wine Industry

George Eustice Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) on securing this popular debate. I studied commercial horticulture at college, and one thing I learned was how to spur-prune vines. I remember people saying in the early ’90s that English wine could become a great, world-beating industry. At that time, although we were starting to win awards and break through, that still felt a long way off and a little far-fetched, but in the past two decades English wine has been a fabulous success story. It has become one of the most entrepreneurial areas of our food and farming industry. As many Members have said, there are lots of fantastic niche products out there.

My hon. Friend said that he thought there were some 500 vineyards. I am reliably informed that there are now 640 registered vineyards and 133 wineries, which shows how fast the industry is growing. I thought at one point that we were going to hear them all listed. Many of them were, and it is clear that hon. Members have a lot of pride in the vineyards in their constituencies.

English wines have picked up around 28 awards, including one gold award at the 2016 International Wine Challenge and three silver awards at the Effervescents du Monde. In August, a container bound for the USA left Southampton with more than 5,000 bottles of English sparkling wine from key producers across the country, including Digby Fine English, Hush Heath Estate, Bolney Wine Estate and Camel Valley. That is the beginning of a great export business, which we hope will grow.

Earlier this year, the former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), held a roundtable event at which the industry committed to and said that it expected a tenfold increase in wine exports—an increase from 250,000 bottles to 2.5 million, or from £3.2 million to more than £30 million in value terms—by 2020. English producers also have an ambition to grow the area planted from 2,000 hectares to 3,000 hectares. This industry is growing in leaps and bounds.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton said, there was also discussion at that roundtable event about soils and how the weather in this country was improving. DEFRA committed at that event to make available 3D LIDAR data to help the industry pinpoint the best areas for production. That was announced in October 2015. We are also compiling data on soil moisture content. Following the event and at the industry’s request, DEFRA appointed a single Government contact point for the industry to discuss funding matters, which several hon. Members raised.

We are working with the UK Vineyards Association in two key areas: simplifying and streamlining vineyard and production data collection with the Food Standards Agency, and providing a forum with the Health and Safety Executive to allow the sector to discuss concerns about pesticide availability, which was also raised by several hon. Members. Perhaps the most notable response at that event was the industry’s confident commitment to a tenfold increase in exports and a dramatic increase in hectares grown.

The sector’s growth and the outstanding quality of our wines have not gone unnoticed by the international wine production community. Earlier this year, I was given the honour of opening the International Cool Climate Wine Symposium in Brighton. That was the first time that the UK had been chosen to host that major international event, and only the second time that it had been hosted by an EU country. I am pleased to say it was an outstanding success, attracting more than 30 international speakers and experts from some of the most innovative and forward-thinking wine producing regions, and more than 500 visitors from across the globe, all wanting to learn and share their knowledge and experience.

The Government have played a big part in promoting our wines. A number of hon. Members asked what we are doing, and we are trying to ensure that all our embassies stock English wines. I take on board what my right hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) said about ensuring that we spread it around and do not choose just a single brand, but celebrate all the great brands that we have. Our Great British Food unit has designated 2016 the year of Great British food. While I was in Japan at the G7 Agriculture Ministers meeting earlier this year, I took the opportunity to promote our sparkling wines at the British embassy, and we have hosted similar events in the USA and Paris, and indeed at No. 10, to raise awareness of our excellent wines and top-quality British produce.

I want to move on to some other issues that hon. Members raised. Many hon. Members invited me to get involved in the issue of duty on wine. They will all know that that is a matter for the Chancellor. A number of hon. Members mentioned the idea of a small producers’ scheme. I understand that if we were to do something similar to what pertains for beer and cider, there may be some state aid rules involved, but, given that many hon. Members raised that, I am sure Treasury officials will study the debate and look at some of the representations made.

My hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton also mentioned the International Organisation of Vine and Wine—the OIV. One of the issues with that is, under the duty of loyal co-operation, which was a requirement while being in the EU, even if the UK had been on the OIV it would have been required by EU law to do what the European Commission told it to do. That, for a number of years, meant that the benefits of rejoining were questionable. However, obviously as we leave the EU, regain our seat on many international forums and are able to speak freely again, that is something we will look at again.

A number of hon. Members mentioned protected food names. English and Welsh wines are protected. I believe that, as we leave the EU, third countries can continue to use protected food names, and this will be one area of all those we have to discuss where it will be relatively straightforward to roll forward some kind of geographic recognition similar to what we have now. We are also exploring the possibility of using trademark regulations and the Intellectual Property Office to protect certain brands and certain specific recipes.

My hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) mentioned Plumpton College. I commend the work it does in training, which is important. He also mentioned some of the restrictions on growing, which he put down to the EU. I am told that, actually, the EU restrictions on planting do not apply to the UK. I have to say that, like him, I was on the leave side and normally I would not pass up the opportunity to blame the EU for things, but, in the spirit of all being nice to one another in future, I feel I should point out that those restrictions do not apply here.

Finally, a number of hon. Members mentioned the issue with British wine, including my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Scott Mann). The practice of introducing vines dates back to Roman times—right back to the beginning—but, as well as a provision in EU law for British wine to be recognised with imported grapes, there are also horizontal regulations in UK law that require it to be clearly labelled for what it is and for the ingredients to be labelled. I am however conscious that there has been increasing conflict and pressure given the advent of English wine and Welsh wine and, as we leave the EU, there may be opportunities to introduce clarity there.

We have had a fantastic debate in which we have covered many different issues. I am out of time, but I hope that I picked up many of the issues raised by hon. Members.