(1 day, 17 hours ago)
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Mr Speaker
Before the Home Secretary makes her statement, I must advise the House that charges have been brought against a named individual and the matter is now sub judice. Members should take care not to say anything in the House that might prejudice a criminal trial. I therefore urge Members to avoid speculating about the guilt or innocence of an individual, or the motive for the attacks. The Home Secretary may wish to make factual statements for the record. Members may wish to ask about the emergency services, the response to the attacks, the support for victims and families, and connected matters. However, I urge the utmost caution in avoiding any remarks that might prejudice a future trial.
The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Shabana Mahmood)
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the horrific events that took place on the east coast main line on Saturday evening. I am sure that I speak for everyone in this House when I say that my thoughts today are first and foremost with the victims, their families and their friends, and all those who experienced this terrifying attack.
My deepest thanks go to the emergency services: the British Transport police, Cambridgeshire police, Cambridgeshire fire and rescue service, and the East of England ambulance service. The speed of their response, as well as their skill and professionalism, was exemplary.
I also pay tribute to the breathtaking bravery of those on the train itself, including the heroic acts of the passengers and train crew who intercepted the attacker. I draw particular attention to one member of the onboard crew who ran towards danger, confronting the attacker for a sustained period of time, and stopped his advance through the train. He put himself in harm’s way, suffered grievous injuries as a result, and remains in hospital today in a critical but stable condition. On Saturday, he went to work to do his job—today, he is a hero and forever will be. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”]
There is now a live investigation into what happened on Saturday night and the events that led up to it. I am therefore limited in what I can say today without putting a successful prosecution at risk. I am sure that all here agree there must be one priority right now: bringing the person who committed this horrific crime to justice. However, I will share what facts I can.
At 7.42 pm on Saturday evening, police were contacted about an incident on a train travelling from Doncaster to London, with reports of several stabbings onboard. The quick thinking of the driver saw the train diverted to Huntingdon station. Within eight minutes of the first 999 call, police had boarded the train and brought the attack to an end. Ten people were taken to hospital by the ambulance services, eight of whom had life-threatening injuries, and a further individual later self-presented at the hospital. Three have now been discharged, while eight remain in hospital. I know that everyone in this House wishes them the swiftest and fullest recoveries possible, and I would like to thank the staff at Cambridge University hospitals NHS foundation trust for their lifesaving care.
I can confirm, as was reported over the weekend, that Operation Plato, the national police identifier for a terrorist attack, was declared; however, it was rescinded once the incident had been contained. The British Transport police remains the lead force in this investigation. It stated yesterday that while Counter Terrorism Policing was initially involved, it has found “nothing to suggest” this was “a terrorist incident”.
At the scene, the police made two arrests. Since then, one man has been released who we now know was not involved. As of this morning, the other—one Anthony Williams—has been charged. In relation to the events in Huntingdon, he has been charged with 10 counts of attempted murder, one count of possession of a knife, and one of actual bodily harm. He has also been charged with a further count of attempted murder and possession of a bladed article in relation to events on a docklands light railway train in the early hours of Saturday morning, at London’s Pontoon Dock. Cambridgeshire police has, in the last few hours, reported additional earlier sightings and possible further offences. As is standard practice in these cases, it has now referred itself to the Independent Office for Police Conduct for independent scrutiny of its handling of these reports.
For now, there is little I can say about this man and his past, beyond confirming that he is a British national and was born in this country, and that he was not known to the security services, Counter Terrorism Policing or Prevent. I know that this House, and the public, will have many unanswered questions today about who this attacker was and about the events that led up to the attack. Those questions will be answered, but it will take time—the police and prosecutors must be allowed to do their work.
Since Saturday’s attack, the British Transport police has increased its presence at key points in the transport network. It should be noted, however, that its operational assessment of the risk posed on our trains has not changed, as this was an isolated attack.
This was also, of course, a knife crime. This Government are committed to halving knife crime within a decade, and progress has been made this year. We have taken 60,000 knives off our streets, banned zombie knives and ninja swords and seen a 5% fall in all knife crimes, including an 18% reduction in homicides by knife.
I know that ideas have already been suggested as to how policing should change in response to this event and, once the facts are known, we must examine what more might have been done to stop this horrific attack ever occurring and whether there are measures we must now take to better protect the public on our streets and on our trains. However, that must be done when all the facts are available to us.
The thoughts of the whole House today are with the victims of this horrific crime, their families and friends, and all affected by what happened on Saturday night. The sickening act of the man who committed this crime was the very worst of humanity, but the actions of those who responded and who ran towards danger to save the lives of people they did not know were the very best of us. I know that we all share in paying tribute to their extraordinary bravery today. I commend this statement to the House.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
I call the shadow Secretary of State.
Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)
I thank the Home Secretary for advance sight of her statement.
Our thoughts are with the victims of this appalling attack and their families, as the Home Secretary rightly says. I join her in paying tribute to the emergency services who responded so fast and the brave interventions by members of the public and the train staff that prevented an even worse tragedy from occurring. They are truly heroes.
This attack has horrified and shocked the whole nation. People simply travelling by train were indiscriminately attacked. The horror the passengers experienced will likely stay with them forever.
Anthony Williams has now been charged. As the Home Secretary says, he had been involved in previous incidents in Peterborough and, in the early hours of Saturday morning, was also allegedly involved in an attack on the docklands light railway in London. Will the Home Secretary confirm that, as I have been told, police in London knew Williams’s identity following that attack, and if so, whether Cambridgeshire police were informed so that they could track him down? In essence, I am asking whether there were any opportunities to prevent this attack from occurring.
The Home Secretary says that Williams was not previously known to the security services, Counter Terrorism Policing or Prevent. Can she tell the House whether Williams was previously known to the police more widely or to mental health services?
This all comes just weeks after a murderous Islamist terror attack on a Manchester synagogue and just days after the horrendous murder of Wayne Broadhurst by an Afghan asylum seeker, both using knives. Although homicide has thankfully fallen by about 15% since 2010 and, as the Home Secretary said, knife crime has fallen in recent years, every homicide and every knife attack is one too many. The Minister for Policing and I saw the grief it causes at the funeral of 15-year-old Elianne Andam, who was murdered in Croydon just over two years ago.
Speaking in general—not in relation to this incident—does the Home Secretary agree that knife crime and knife homicide figures are still too high, and that we must do yet more? Does she agree that more knife crime offenders should go to jail? This is important because when offenders are in jail, they cannot attack the public. Does she agree that we must ensure that more people who carry knives, especially where they use them to threaten others, are jailed? Of course, there is pressure on prison places, but by deporting more of the 10,000 foreign nationals in prison, we could create more space.
We also need to take more knives off our streets, which means we have to dramatically increase the use of stop and search. A study this year by Professor Lawrence Sherman, the Met’s former chief scientific officer, found that raising stop and search levels in London to 2011 levels would lead to a one-third reduction in knife homicide. Some complain that stop and search is used disproportionately in relation to some groups, but, when measured in relation to the offending population, the disproportionality disappears, as was set out in a recent Policy Exchange study. We should triple the use of stop and search to get knives off our streets, and we should introduce year-round surge policing in the top 5% of high crime hotspots, which will include many train stations.
We must also use technology more. I know that there is work under way at the Home Office on scanning for knives at a distance, and it is hoped that it can distinguish knives from keys or mobile phones. This could help police rapidly identify those carrying a knife in a public place. I wonder if the Home Secretary could provide an update on the development of that work, either straightaway or in writing later if she would prefer. I really do think that it could make a big difference.
Finally, retrospective and live facial recognition can identify wanted criminals, including those involved in knife crime. In Croydon town centre—the borough that the Minister for Policing and I represent—in the last couple of years around 200 wanted criminals were arrested using live facial recognition, including two wanted rapists and others guilty of knife crime who would not otherwise have been caught. Crime in Croydon town centre, including knife crime, has gone down as a result. The images of innocent passers-by are immediately and automatically deleted, which addresses civil liberties concerns. I really hope that the Home Secretary and the Minister for Policing agree that rolling out this technology nationally would make a dramatic improvement to public safety, and they will certainly have my full support if they choose to roll it out.
I know that everyone in the House wants to see knife crime eradicated—today more than ever before, I am sure—so I hope the House will also support the tough steps needed to eradicate knife crime. We owe the victims of these appalling crimes actions as well as words.
Shabana Mahmood
I thank the shadow Home Secretary for his remarks, in particular his opening remarks; I know that the bravery of all those who faced this attack on Saturday has unanimous support across the House, and I thank him for the spirit in which he reflected that.
As I said in my statement, the events in Peterborough are now the subject of an IOPC investigation. It is important that I do not say anything that seeks to get ahead of that, but I am sure all those questions will be answered in the fullness of time. It is standard practice where there has been contact with police in the run-up to an event like this that those matters are referred to the IOPC to investigate and consider.
The shadow Home Secretary will know that I also cannot say anything that relates to the suspect who has been charged and any prior history, or indeed mental health issues. They would be facts that are material to any future court proceedings, so it would be inappropriate for me, or indeed anybody else in this House, to comment or speculate on those matters today. I would ask that Mr Speaker’s words at the opening of the statement be remembered as questions are posed today.
I agree with the shadow Home Secretary that knife crime is far too high. This Government are impatient to do everything we can to eliminate knife crime. It is why we have set ourselves an ambitious target. We are pleased to have made some progress, though I agree that there is much more to be done. Instead of playing politics across the House, I hope that where there is consensus we are all able to work together to bring down the scourge of knife crime in our country. As I say, the numbers have gone in a positive direction. I hope the shadow Home Secretary will welcome that and work with us as we seek to make more progress.
The shadow Home Secretary referred to sentencing. I have to say that it is disappointing when Conservative Members do not reckon with the scale of the crisis in our prison system. This Government inherited a prison system on the brink of collapse, and it has meant difficult decisions ever since we entered office in order to prevent the country from running out of prison places entirely. This Government have deported more foreign national offenders since entering office than the previous Government did.
Despite deporting record numbers of foreign national offenders, the scale of the crisis in the prison system means that there are still more prisoners coming into the system than there have been places. It is important that the sentencing reforms are seen in that context. The majority of those who have been in possession of a knife and used it in a threatening manner do attract reasonably lengthy prison sentences. When we know more about the circumstances of this particular case, we will know if there are other lessons for us to draw and other areas of policy for us to consider.
The shadow Home Secretary referenced stop and search, and I think—I hope that I am not putting too much of a spin on his remarks—lamented issues about disproportionality. I gently remind him that it was a former Tory Home Secretary in the 2010 to 2015 Parliament who first started speaking about the disproportionate use of stop-and-search powers and changed the rules to reflect the disproportionate use of that power. That was the record of the previous Government. I hope he will recognise that the police already have the power to use stop and search indiscriminately, where the intelligence suggests that that is required. That is an operational decision for police chiefs. Of course, the decision as to whether to stop and search someone, when there are reasonable grounds and suspicion, is an individual operational decision for police officers. This is a well used and well understood power. It is an important power in our arsenal for tackling criminality, and the Government fully support its lawful use.
The Government will soon consult on a new legal framework to underpin the use of live facial recognition. The shadow Home Secretary will know that when his party was in power, that was left to individual police forces. I believe that South Wales and the Met were the first to roll it out, and they faced lots of legal challenges as a result thereof. The Government then did not change their policy, but this Government will consult on a legal framework so that all police forces across the country can use live facial recognition technology, confident that they will not find themselves defending those decisions in courts in the future. I have also supported the roll-out of 10 specific live facial recognition units across the country, and we will look to do more in the coming months.
In relation to scans for knives, there is much more that we can do to use new and emerging technology to help us tackle this type of criminality. I am happy to write to the shadow Home Secretary about our current plans, but I will set out more on our broader position in the coming weeks.
Knife crime is a terrible crime that claims far too many lives in our country. It is important that we keep doing everything we can to bear down on the damage that it causes and to provide pathways for those who get caught up in the carrying of knives. That is an important bit of policy that we will continue to work on. However, in relation to the attack that we are primarily talking about, I urge the House to wait until more of the facts are known before drawing broader policy conclusions.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
I call the Chair of the Transport Committee.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
I thank the Home Secretary for all her remarks and the Secretary of State for Transport, who is also in her place, for her comments in the media this morning. I share, as all hon. Members of the House do, their concern for the victims and their families and the recognition of the heroism of so many in the tragedy on Saturday.
On behalf of my colleagues on the Transport Committee, I pay particular tribute to all the staff of Avanti West Coast and Network Rail, who responded so quickly, and in particular to the train driver who reacted so promptly to get the train to Huntingdon in order that the emergency services could meet it and the on-board staff member who is in hospital after protecting passengers.
I know that people may be nervous of travelling by train now. I thank the Government and the police services for their work to ensure additional police presence at rail stations, as I saw at Waterloo on my way here earlier. As the Home Secretary said, British Transport police has said that its operational assessment of the risk posed on our trains has not changed, given that this was an isolated attack, so will she assure me that any long-term changes to security on our rail services will be considered very carefully once the full facts of this incident are known and that there will not be a rush into changes without considering potential downsides that may impact on the ease of travel by train?
Shabana Mahmood
It is always about balance between ease of travel for millions of people every single day and making sure that people are safe, and of course the Transport Secretary and the rest of the Government will ensure that any arrangements—whether we remain with the current arrangements or make any changes—always strike the right balance. That is the most important thing. For now, based on our current understanding of this attack, the risk assessment has not changed, and although we are providing more reassurance to people so that they feel safe getting on trains in the aftermath of this attack, there are no proposals to go further at this point. We will of course review that once more when the facts are known.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)
This attack has left 11 people in hospital, one of them a member of the train staff, who is in a critical but stable condition. My party’s thoughts are with all those affected: the victims, their loved ones and everyone who witnessed such a shocking event. We also want to thank the emergency services and rail staff for their swift response, as well as the passengers who intervened to prevent further harm.
After this sort of incident, it is vital that the police are given the time and space they need to establish the full facts. That is ever more difficult due to the rapid spread of disinformation online in the immediate aftermath of such attacks. Within hours, social media was flooded with speculation over the ethnicity and race of the perpetrator, inciting racist and Islamophobic comments. While communities were still reeling from the horror of the attack, certain political figures on the hard right, including members of the Reform party, were already seeking to exploit the incident for political gain. Desperate to involve themselves in the tragedy, they reached for their dog whistles. They threw around baseless opinions on levels of crime when facts were available, shamelessly trying to turn this tragedy into yet another excuse to whip up fear and sow division.
The shadow Home Secretary’s comments today also veered into that realm. Never is an opportunity to blame foreigners missed—that is beneath contempt. At moments like this, those who aspire to leadership must calm fears and attempt to unite, not to inflame tensions. Does the Home Secretary share my view that while knife crime must be tackled forcefully, it is important that all of us must respond with arguments grounded in fact rather than trying to stoke fear?
Can the Home Secretary confirm whether the Government hold data on violent incidents involving knives or sharp instruments where three or more victims were harmed in a single incident? If so, what is the trend over the past two years, or over any other timeframe the Home Secretary has data for? Finally, she has said that the individual was not known to anti-terror police or Prevent, but when the facts are known, will she confirm that proper lessons will be learned about individuals who may pose a risk, be it as a result of mental health issues, an obsession with extreme violence or other relevant factors?
Shabana Mahmood
I deplore the ease with which so many armchair warriors feel the need to speculate and spread misinformation on social media. It is important that the police and all our emergency services are able to proceed with their investigations not only at pace but transparently, so as to calm any tensions that might arise as a result of misinformation that spreads, particularly across social media. In terms of how other people may or may not have reacted, I tend to think that at moments of such crisis people normally reveal their true colours. I will leave my remarks about other individuals there.
The hon. Gentleman is right to say that knife crime must be tackled forcefully. As I said earlier, we have seen an 18% decrease in murders by knife, and I will make sure he receives the further stats that he mentioned. As I have said, the data in relation to knife crime is going in a better direction, but like others in this House, I am impatient to see more change happen more quickly. I hope he will work with us on a cross-party basis on all the measures needed to achieve that. Of course, when all the facts around this case are known and understood, I will ensure that any lessons that there are to be learned will be learned and acted upon.
Sam Carling (North West Cambridgeshire) (Lab)
May I take this opportunity to put on the record my thanks to the first responders, the police and everyone on the train who put their lives at risk to protect others? So many people from the communities I represent in both Peterborough and Huntingdonshire have written to me today in absolute fear, shock and confusion at how this could have happened so close to home, particularly after we found out this morning that the charged individual is from my constituency. Constituents have also been worried and alarmed about reports over the last few hours that the offender may have been involved in further incidents in Peterborough and London. Will the Home Secretary join me in calling for community cohesion following this incident, and ensure that a full investigation takes place into those possible other offences?
Shabana Mahmood
I can only imagine how terrifying it must have been for my hon. Friend’s constituents and those in neighbouring areas to hear news of this horrifying attack. He will know that I cannot say any more at the moment about other potential incidents—they are the subject of further investigation. As more facts are confirmed by the police, we will be able to say more and, of course, the IOPC must be allowed to do its work.
When we know more about the facts of this case, we will know whether it relates to community cohesion or to wider community issues. I encourage Members to wait until more facts are known before we draw those broader conclusions, but I agree with my hon. Friend that it is necessary that we reassure communities in his constituency and across the country. That is why there is an increased police presence across the transport network and why this Government will ensure that, as we know more, where there are lessons to be learned, they will be learned and acted upon.
Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)
This has been a difficult and challenging weekend for Huntingdon. My thoughts are with the victims of this terrible tragedy; with the LNER crew member whose heroic and selfless actions, placing himself in harm’s way, saved lives at the cost of his own safety, and who remains in a critical but stable condition; with the other four victims who remain in hospital with stab wounds; and with the four who were discharged yesterday, as well as those who bore witness to the attacks and will still be processing their own experiences.
I would like to place on the record my praise for the emergency services’ response: to Cambridgeshire constabulary, whose unarmed response officers and firearms officers were able to place Anthony Williams in custody within eight minutes of receiving the 999 call; and to Cambridgeshire fire and rescue service, our air ambulance services, and the East of England ambulance trust for their incident response and for getting the casualties to Addenbrooke’s hospital. I also praise the train driver, Andrew Johnson, and the signalling staff, whose speed of thought in moving the train on to the suburban line from the high-speed line meant that the train could make the unscheduled stop at Huntingdon—a decision that curtailed the attack by several crucial minutes, that allowed the police to apprehend the suspect and that undoubtedly saved lives.
The swift action of all those involved prevented a horrific attack from being far, far worse. I am sure that the Home Secretary, and indeed the whole House, would wish to share in my sympathies for those impacted by this horrific attack, and in my pride in the conduct, leadership and professionalism of the responders and railway staff.
Shabana Mahmood
I thank the hon. Member for both his question and for his own work over the weekend. He was very quick to arrive at the scene. I thought that he handled himself with great honour and that he responded in a measured way to such a horrifying incident in his constituency. The way he has handled himself is a credit to him and to the people he represents. Of course, I agree with his remarks about the bravery of all those who were responding, the speed of the response and the bravery of those inside the train. Let me assure him that myself and my officials stand ready to work with him and others locally on the ground to ensure that all lessons are learned as we move forward.
Andrew Pakes (Peterborough) (Lab)
May I associate myself with the comments about sympathy and empathy for the victims of this attack? The names of Peterborough and the town of the constituency of the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Ben Obese-Jecty) have flashed across the news here and around the world this weekend because of the terrible events of Saturday night. I do not want my constituency to be known just because of the acts of a single perpetrator, so may I put on record my tribute to the police, the train staff, the first responders and others who stepped forward when actions were needed? I pay particular tribute to my constituent, train driver Andrew Johnson, and his ASLEF and RMT colleagues on LNER, who went beyond the call of duty on that evening.
They showed the best of British values, and the true face of the county I represent and its people.
We do not know all the information yet, but there is great anxiety in Huntingdon and Peterborough, and this is also a national issue. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that we will go the extra mile to tackle knife crime and ensure that our streets and public transport remain safe for everyone for years to come?
Shabana Mahmood
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend. He made contact with me and my officials very quickly after the attack came to light, and, like other Members, he is an assiduous constituency Member of Parliament. I am sure that he will do everything he can to stand up for the people he represents and ensure that the wider area is not tainted by the actions of the attacker. He is absolutely right to remind the House that we should remember the acts not of the attacker, but of those who responded; they put themselves in harm’s way to protect people they had never met before, and they are the very best of us. I pay tribute to all the staff on the train, because they were faced with something utterly horrifying, reacted with immense bravery, and undoubtedly saved countless lives.
Dame Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)
I thank the Home Secretary for her statement and associate myself with the tributes to the emergency services and the train crew. Our thoughts are with the victims.
When we have more information, I am sure that my Home Affairs Committee will want to consider what happened and learn lessons from it. I draw the Home Secretary’s attention to our inquiry on new forms of radicalisation. If things come out of the investigation that are relevant to my Committee’s inquiry, I ask that we ensure that we learn from them, and ensure that they are included in the inquiry as soon as possible.
Shabana Mahmood
I thank the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee for those points. I look forward to working closely with her as we learn more lessons, once all the facts of the case are known. She is right that, more broadly, we are seeing many new forms of radicalisation in this country and across Europe and North America. It is important that we always stress-test and challenge the Government response to those new forms of radicalisation. Longer term, we will need a change in our understanding of what motivates serious violent behaviour. I am sure that she and her Committee will continue their work, and I pledge to work with them as we try to tease out more answers to these problems.
Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) (Lab/Co-op)
I associate myself with the powerful tributes to the train driver, staff and members of the public. The incident demonstrates the importance of having more than one staff member on trains. The train guards play a vital role in protecting passengers.
My constituency is home to Vauxhall and Waterloo—busy mainline stations. In under six weeks, millions of people will travel home for Christmas on the public network. They need to be reassured that train travel is an efficient and good way to travel across the country. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary mentioned that there will be additional resources across the network for the next few weeks. Will that go on into the busy Christmas period?
This issue is also covered by the Department for Transport. As transport geeks will know, the British Transport police has a strange funding mechanism: it is funded by the industry, not by the Home Office. As we take on more control of the public network and train services, responsibility for funding will fall to the Government. Will the Home Secretary and Transport Secretary consider that, and ensure that the British Transport police is fully funded to protect people on public transport?
Shabana Mahmood
Thankfully, incidents like the one on Saturday are very rare, and our train system is generally very safe—millions of people use it every day without incident—so we have a strong base to build on. Of course, given what has happened—the horrifying nature of the attack, and the indiscriminate way in which victims were stabbed—the British Transport police’s decision to increase the police presence across the railway network is important. How extensive that increase is, and how long it goes on, is an operational decision for British Transport police, but we have a good working relationship with it, and I have been impressed with its response to this attack. We have been working closely with it over the weekend, and I pay tribute to it and all its officers. I will be led by British Transport police on the operational decisions that it is making. On the wider policy questions raised by my hon. Friend, as more of the network is nationalised, I will of course pick up those conversations with the Transport Secretary.
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)
More generally on knife crime and on magistrates, is there a disconnect between the fact that under the Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959, someone can be given a custodial sentence of 51 weeks, and the presumption under the Sentencing Bill that a 12-month custodial sentence will not be required? What might the Home Secretary do to get around that and ensure that magistrates have more sentencing powers? Possession of a knife is not use of a knife, but sadly one so often leads to the other. There is clearly a legislative disconnect, and I hope the Home Secretary will look at that.
Shabana Mahmood
As the right hon. Gentleman will know, the average sentence for threatening with a knife is more than a year—it is around 15 months—and it would not be caught by the presumption in the Sentencing Bill. Also, the Bill creates a presumption against, not a blanket ban on, sentences of under 12 months; there is still discretion for judges in all cases. The Bill sets out the circumstances in which that presumption can be overridden, and that will always be a matter for the independent judiciary, based on the facts of the case in front of them.
James Asser (West Ham and Beckton) (Lab)
I join other Members in expressing sympathy to all those who have been affected, and in thanking the emergency services, members of the public who got involved, and of course the train crew, who acted heroically to protect their passengers. Given the developments today, and the Home Secretary’s statement on the incident in east London and Pontoon Dock in my constituency, there is a great deal of anxiety and fear among my constituents in West Ham and Beckton, and I place on record my thanks to the police for their engagement with me this afternoon. What assurances can the Home Secretary give my constituents about safety on public transport, particularly in east London, where there are a lot of smaller, unstaffed, open-access docklands light railway stations, which are essential to the daily life of my constituents?
Shabana Mahmood
As my hon. Friend will know, I am limited in what I can say, given that this is a live police investigation. The police have obviously confirmed some of the facts, but their investigation must be allowed to continue without further speculation. He makes a good point, and I well understand why people in his constituency, or those who regularly use that station, will feel concerned. That is why BTP has increased patrols to provide additional reassurance to the community. Nothing at this point suggests that this was a particular location of interest, and I hope that reassures my hon. Friend’s constituents.
Sir Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
I echo tributes to the train staff and emergency services, and to the Home Secretary and her team, who I am sure were working flat out all weekend. The case is being investigated, but given the events of Saturday and in the run-up to Saturday night, can I urge her to bring together police chiefs to talk about information sharing and any further resource that they require? I am happy to admit that we should not have diluted stop and search, but can I urge her to look again at that? Northern Ireland is much more permissive, and section 60 needs to be reviewed.
Shabana Mahmood
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his remarks. My experience over the weekend regarding the different police forces and emergency services who responded to this attack is that they work together very well, and I was pleased to see that level of co-ordination, especially when different forces are responsible for different things. At the start of this incident, counter-terror police were supporting the investigation. They were stood down, but if they had needed to be stood up again, that would have happened almost instantaneously—as soon as the request was made. My initial experience and impression of the collaborative working has been positive, and I pay tribute to everyone involved in it over the weekend.
I will take away the right hon. Gentleman’s comments on information sharing and reflect on what he said. When such a huge incident takes place, with lots of information going out in different forms, it is important that we ensure complete co-ordination. If he has any specific concerns in relation to this incident, I will be happy for him to write to me, and I will respond, but I will pick up that conservation with the National Police Chiefs’ Council and others as well.
I reassure the right hon. Gentleman that I think that stop and search is a very valuable tool for the police. I will always want to see it used, wherever that is appropriate. My understanding from my conversations with the police so far is that their powers work quite well from an operational perspective, but I will always be open-minded and willing to look again at any of these issues, should there be a change in the advice from police or in our experience of how the powers are used.
Lee Pitcher (Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme) (Lab)
I associate myself with the many tributes given to those people on the train who tried to prevent the attack, the staff and the responders. As the Member for Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme, I use the Doncaster to King’s Cross service most weeks. Many of my constituents and people across Doncaster are deeply shaken by this appalling attack, but that service is an indispensable part of our lives. Will the Home Secretary set out the immediate steps that she has taken to reassure passengers who use that line, and the best way for us to communicate that message, so that passengers have peace of mind as they travel on the trains over the next few days?
Shabana Mahmood
We should all take confidence from the speed of the emergency services’ response to the attack, which has drawn justified wide praise from across the House. The speed of the response meant that the attack was brought to an end as quickly as possible, and many lives, I believe, were saved as a result of that response. While the incident is deeply shocking, and I can fully understand that people who use the service regularly will feel shaken by the news, we should all take confidence and pride in the fact that our emergency services were able to respond so quickly. The British Transport police has increased the police presence across the network to provide more reassurance to people. Thankfully, in this country, incidents of this nature across our transport network are very rare, and everyone in this House will want to work together to ensure that remains the case.
Ian Sollom (St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire) (LD)
I join the Home Secretary and my constituency neighbour, the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Ben Obese-Jecty), in sending my thoughts to the victims and their families. I pay tribute to Cambridgeshire police, Cambridgeshire fire and rescue service, the East of England ambulance service, the staff at Addenbrooke’s hospital, the train crew and the passengers for their response on Saturday evening. While respecting the ongoing investigation and the Independent Office for Police Conduct process, will she assure the House that the extraordinary bravery and professionalism demonstrated by all those involved in containing the incident and providing lifesaving care will be properly recognised in due course?
Shabana Mahmood
I agree with everything that the hon. Member said in praise of all those who responded to the attack. Once we are through the court proceedings and the full facts of the incident are known, I will ensure that there will be a moment to thank all our emergency services and the brave passengers in an appropriate way, when the time is right.
Rachel Hopkins (Luton South and South Bedfordshire) (Lab)
I pay tribute to all the LNER train crew and the train driver for their bravery. Their swift action and their extensive training in responding to emergencies was undoubtedly critical to saving many lives. Railway staff will be deeply concerned that this terrible incident has taken place against a backdrop of year-on-year increases in violent assaults on rail staff. What conversations is the Home Secretary having with colleagues at the Department for Transport about the resources and support needed to keep rail staff and passengers safe on our railways?
Shabana Mahmood
I know from my conversations with the Transport Secretary over the weekend that these issues are very much on her mind. There is crossover with those of us in the Home Office, but the responsibility sits primarily with the Transport Secretary. I will ensure that my hon. Friend gets a fuller response to her question, but she should rest assured that this Government recognise that assaults on any of our public sector workers are unacceptable, and the Government will do everything they can to stamp them out.
Steve Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire) (Con)
May I join in with the tributes of my fellow Cambridgeshire MPs? In her statement, the Home Secretary indicated that she was receptive to the deployment of facial recognition at railway stations. Can she clarify, on the current timeline, the earliest date on which that would be deployed more widely? Given some of the early lessons coming out of this case, what scope is there for the Government to accelerate that timeline?
Shabana Mahmood
The consultation I referred to in my earlier remarks around the legal framework for much wider use of live facial recognition will be in the next few weeks—it is all but upon us. I referred to the funding for 10 new mobile units that has been made available. The British Transport police is preparing a pilot of live facial recognition technology at selected railway stations in London, which will run for a period of six months. The exact dates will be public in due course, and I will ensure that we write to the right hon. Gentleman with them when they are decided.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Ind)
With LNER headquartered in my constituency, I have written to David Horne, the managing director, to offer my support to him and pass on my best wishes to his crew. I put on record my thanks to the signallers, also based in my constituency, who made it possible to shift the train on to the other line. Last summer, I sought to amend the Crime and Policing Bill with an amendment to provide greater protections for transport staff in the light of the increased risks they face. With the Bill about to enter Committee in the House of Lords, will the Home Secretary look again at my amendments and ensure that we provide those protections for transport staff?
Shabana Mahmood
I will happily discuss with my hon. Friend the content of her earlier amendment. Even if it is not acceptable for that Bill, I will ensure that the policy question she raises is picked up by our colleagues in the Department for Transport.
Several hon. Members rose—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Order. We are running out of time, so I ask for questions, and answers, to be shorter.
Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)
May I put on record our best wishes to the victims and our thanks to the emergency services and railway staff, who did a remarkable job? I know that the Home Secretary cannot comment on this particular case, but one concern I have is around the speculation and disinformation that is rife on social media. Can she make it her job to have a conversation with the social media companies? That kind of speculation does no service to the victims or to the police pursuing this issue.
Shabana Mahmood
The most important thing is that official sources of information are able to be transparent as quickly as possible so that the vast majority of this country that does not just get its news from social media knows what is happening. There will be a role for the Online Safety Act 2023 in the future as well.
Dr Scott Arthur (Edinburgh South West) (Lab)
I thank the Secretary of State for her statement and for bringing it to us so promptly. I use LNER every week to come to this place; I always knew that the staff were great, but I did not realise that they were heroes. The response we saw from both the staff and the public on the train really was the best of Britain, but the response on social media was absolutely shameful, if I am honest—it shames us as a country. LNER connects Edinburgh South West to destinations north and south, and I am sure my residents will be really pleased to hear that we are looking at facial recognition on the transport network. That is incredibly important, but I will talk about knife crime more generally. In June, the Government gave a commitment to look at the manufacture and sale of round-tip knives and hopefully mandating them. Is the Home Secretary able to give us an update on that? I am sorry for putting her on the spot.
Shabana Mahmood
We will publish a knife crime strategy very soon. I understand the reason why some people think that round-tip knives are part of the solution, and I will consider all the evidence, but in the end millions of normal kitchen knives are available. We have to do a much better job on all the other areas, such as prevention.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
I will be very brief. When the Home Secretary undertakes lessons learned and recommendations for the future, will she look into the question of whether there is any protective equipment, or even disabling equipment of a non-lethal nature, that could be issued to staff for use in such an emergency?
Shabana Mahmood
The right hon. Gentleman will know that tasers were deployed on Saturday to bring this incident to a close. However, I can assure him that even if that is not part of the wider lessons learned from this case once all the facts are known, I will take his points into consideration.
Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab)
My thoughts and prayers are with the victims of this brutal attack, and of course I pay tribute to the amazing courage and bravery of the train crew, as well as the first responders. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green (Florence Eshalomi), I have serious concerns about the funding arrangements for the British Transport police. Can I encourage my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to work with the Secretary of State for Transport and her Department to make sure that BTP’s funding arrangements are good going forward?
Shabana Mahmood
I agree with my hon. Friend about the BTP’s hugely important role. Its funding for this year is actually 6% higher than previously, and I am sure the Transport Secretary will do everything she can on the funding front.
Llinos Medi (Ynys Môn) (PC)
My thoughts and those of my Plaid Cymru colleagues are with everyone affected by this appalling attack. They are also with the train driver, the crew and the staff, whose quick thinking and decisive action helped protect many from the worst of outcomes. Will the Secretary of State join me in expressing gratitude for their bravery, and for showing us all how crucial the presence of officers and sufficient staffing are to our public safety? Surveillance can help catch criminals, but staff on the ground save lives.
Shabana Mahmood
The hon. Lady makes a very good point, and it is undoubtedly the case that the staff on the ground during this incident saved lives.
Neil Duncan-Jordan (Poole) (Ind)
I echo the Home Secretary’s comments and the tributes that have already been paid in the House. She will know, though, that the British Transport police is facing an unprecedented funding deficit that threatens safety on our railways. There is currently a shortfall of £8.5 million and a threat to nearly 300 jobs. Will the Home Secretary therefore meet the Transport Secretary to discuss how we can fully fund the BTP as a matter of urgency?
Shabana Mahmood
I repeat that the BTP has been awarded £415 million for the year 2025-26, which is an increase of almost 6% on the previous year. I am sure that the Transport Secretary is considering the wider funding issues.
Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)
I also pay tribute to those who were on the train, the staff and the first responders, as well as members of the public. Can I ask the Home Secretary to consider the comments made by the right hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Dame Karen Bradley) about the new methods of radicalisation? The previous Home Secretary referenced them at the Dispatch Box, and I would be very keen to hear the current Home Secretary’s views on them.
Shabana Mahmood
The hon. Lady is absolutely right to raise the issue of the wider forms of radicalisation that we are now starting to see in this country. She should rest assured that even if they are not relevant to the specific lessons that are drawn from this case, they are very much on the minds of all of us in the Government as we seek to meet the scale of the new challenge we face.
Paul Davies (Colne Valley) (Lab)
I fully support the remarks made by Stuart Cundy, deputy chief constable of the British Transport police, that the “heroic” actions of the LNER staff member undoubtedly saved lives. At a recent meeting with representatives of the Transport Salaried Staffs Association, they raised concerns about policing budgets and the unique pressures facing the British Transport police. What discussions has the Minister had with the Treasury to ensure a fair funding settlement, one that safeguards the BTP’s operational capacity and ensures the continued safety of passengers across our network?
Shabana Mahmood
I repeat the earlier answers I have given in relation to funding. My hon. Friend should rest assured that we are discussing these matters with the Department for Transport.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)
In the review, will the Home Secretary undertake to look at the very serious problems of some trains operating without any staff on them at all, some very busy trains having insufficient staff, and hundreds of stations all over the country having no staff at all, particularly in the evenings, when the travelling public are obviously vulnerable and at risk? Can we pause driver-only operated trains and look at the issue of safety for the public as a whole?
Shabana Mahmood
We will be led by the operational assessment made by the British Transport police as to what is required. The right hon. Gentleman should rest assured that where the Government have a role to play in keeping people safe on the transport network, we will do so.
Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)
Of course, my first thoughts are with the victims of this horrific attack. The RMT union has called for urgent meetings with the Government, police and the industry to ensure that we have the strongest resources and procedures in place to protect staff and passengers. Can the Home Secretary confirm that the Department for Transport and the Home Office will facilitate those meetings as soon as possible?
Shabana Mahmood
I can assure my hon. Friend that the Transport Secretary and I will be discussing all and any lessons to be drawn from this incident, and there will be a cross-Government response that meets the scale of the challenge that we face.
Shockat Adam (Leicester South) (Ind)
Does the Home Secretary share my deep concern that when incidents such as this occur, certain political commentators and, sadly, certain politicians race to set the narrative behind such attacks as ethnicity-based, faith-based or, ideally, both, rather than focusing on the key crime indicators, such as socioeconomic deprivation, the disintegration of youth services, addiction issues, lack of funding for our police forces and lack of mental health support facilities? Does she agree that those factors matter much more than ethnicity, faith or the migration status of the perpetrator?
Shabana Mahmood
The hon. Member is getting rather ahead of the facts that are currently known about what lay behind this particular attack, so he will understand if I refrain from making broader conclusions about the motivations. I think it is important, learning the lessons of what happened after the Southport attacks, that the Government and the police move quickly to make all shareable information available to prevent the spread of disinformation and potential public disorder.
Several hon. Members rose—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Order. That is the end of the statement on the response to the Huntingdon train attack. I will give the Front-Bench teams a few moments to shuffle over.