Defibrillators

Tuesday 2nd September 2025 Westminster Hall

09:30

[Sam Rushworth (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered defibrillator access.

I thank everyone for being here. We often hear it said that people are generous with their time when they take interventions, but I think it is extremely generous for everyone to show up at 9.30 am for a debate like this. I will deliberately keep my comments brief so we can get as many people in as possible. I am grateful for this opportunity to talk about the need to build more national resilience by increasing access to defibrillators.

May I begin my remarks by paying tribute to my friend George Smith, who died yesterday from a heart attack? George was chair of the parish council in West Auckland and a former Durham county councillor. To everybody who knew him, he was a great man who always had a twinkle in his eye and an energy and desire to serve others. I do not know whether access to a defibrillator would have saved George, but I do know that the national survival rate of out-of-hospital cardiac arrests in the UK is just 8%. Let that sink in: only 8% of people survive. But we also know that the chances of survival increase by 70% where people have rapid access to a defibrillator within three to five minutes, saving the lives of our friends, family and neighbours.

In Bishop Auckland, which I represent, 51% of postcodes are outside the recommended distance for timely access to a defibrillator. We have 17 defibrillators per 10,000 people, which is above the national average, but that still falls far below the recommended 50 to 100 per 100,000 people. I ask the Minister what plans there are to address the stark regional disparities in coverage, particularly in rural areas and disadvantaged communities.

A constituent wrote to me recently to share the experience of her father. He had a cardiac arrest at work and his life was saved by rapid access to a defibrillator. She explained, though, that had he had that cardiac arrest at home—she looked this up—it would have taken her 30 minutes to get to the nearest defibrillator. So we know that there are huge gaps—defibrillator deserts—in national provision.

The Government’s community automated external defibrillator fund has been exhausted and all funds are allocated, with no plans for expansion. That fund delivered 3,000 defibrillators—a small fraction of the 100,000 defibrillators registered on the Circuit. Costs remain a major barrier, with community groups facing a cost of £2,500 per device and not getting VAT relief on that, which is a campaign we have fought previously. Will the Government therefore finally commit—I appreciate the Minister cannot comment on tax affairs, but she can pass this on to her colleagues—to removing VAT on defibrillator purchases, as has been done for other lifesaving equipment?

It is also important to note that registration on the Circuit is not the same as being accessible, because many devices are locked away in offices, schools or businesses and are not available 24/7. That makes survival even less likely for cardiac arrests outside of working hours. What steps are being taken to ensure that the national defibrillator database is accurate, up to date and reflects actual availability? Will the Department work with local authorities and community groups to ensure that placement is in genuinely accessible locations—outside buildings, in community hubs and transport stations?

Last year, I had the opportunity to host Jack Hurley here in Parliament. Jack is an outstanding young man. He had a cardiac arrest while playing football and his friends were able to access a defibrillator and perform CPR on him. It was great to see him standing tall and back doing the things that he loves. Jack has been campaigning for some time, and I want to pay tribute to him and his campaign. His story reminds us that behind every statistic is a family, including a young life that could be cut short or saved depending on access to a defibrillator.

Every Member here will have similar stories and will no doubt have been contacted by constituents asking for help in acquiring defibrillators. Many will have experienced seeing a loved one in a moment of peril. When I was just 11 years old, my mum collapsed with a seizure while we were at church. It was only by the good fortune of there being a paramedic in the congregation that her life was saved. Had that not been the case, I would have grown up without a mother.

This is about not only survival, but recovery. Early defibrillation means better neurological outcomes, shorter hospital stays, lower long-term costs to the NHS and a chance to turn the UK’s poor survival rate into something far more hopeful. We all know what works, so will the Government please act to ensure equitable access across every constituency?

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Graham Stringer (in the Chair)]

We have a good attendance this morning. If hon. Members bob after a speech, whether or not they have put in to speak, that will enable us to do the complicated calculation of how much time we have. Rather than relying on me doing mental arithmetic on the hoof, the Clerk will calculate a reasonable solution.

Right—we will start with a three-minute time limit, which might have to be reduced. The actual calculation comes out at two and a half minutes, so I hope hon. Members will bear that in mind.

09:37

[Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)]

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for bringing this debate to the House, and I wish him well in his recovery.

A few years ago, not many of us in rural Scotland would have known about the importance of defibrillators, and far less about how to use them in the unlikely event of something going wrong. But thanks to the efforts of one Scottish charity, Lucky2BHere, and the work of one individual, the late Ross Cowie of Portree, an old friend of mine, there are 1,000 public access defibrillators, and 5,000 people have been trained in their use over the past two decades by that one organisation.

Ross Cowie suffered a cardiac arrest in 2006 outside the clubhouse of Skye Camanachd, the island shinty team he led to victory in the 1990 cup final. His life was saved only because the local ambulance with a defibrillator happened to be passing by. His original aim was to install one external defibrillator outside his clubhouse in Portree, but the campaign has grown to deliver more than 1,000 defibs across rural Scotland, from Shetland to Dumfries. There is even one in the Flannan isles, 21 miles west of the Isle of Lewis and uninhabited apart from the ghosts of lighthouse keepers, but it is there should it be needed by passing fishermen or yachtsmen.

Just as important as its work in installing defibs, Lucky2BHere has trained thousands of volunteers to administer devices, to ensure that people know how to use them and the associated first aid emergency kit in the instance of cardiac arrest. We are all sometimes left feeling helpless. My hon. Friend mentioned his friend Jack Hurley, a footballer who collapsed while playing. We all remember the collapse of the Danish footballer Christian Eriksen during the Euro 2020 championship. That case highlighted the important difference between Denmark and the UK, because every Danish player on that field knew what to do in the case of cardiac arrest because they had been trained in school. That is a key difference between the UK, or Scotland, and Denmark. Training on defibs and lifesaving is compulsory in schools in Denmark. In Scotland, every local authority has committed to teach CPR in its secondary schools, yet as far as I know, it is up to individual schools to implement that, rather than its being mandatory.

British Heart Foundation Scotland has launched a new interactive online learning tool to equip thousands of schoolchildren with essential lifesaving skills. Classroom RevivR teaches students aged 11 to 16 how to save lives. It meets Scottish curriculum standards and can be taught in one lesson plan. It should be rolled out across all Scottish schools, because if young people learn the difference between cardiac arrest and a heart attack, and how to respond to an unconscious person, they can save lives, just as Ross Cowie and Lucky2BHere saved lives in his time.

Ross passed away in October 2024 at the age of 64, but his legacy lives on in the hearts and actions of all who support Lucky2BHere. It would be a fitting tribute to him and to the work of Lucky2BHere if training in life support became part of the curriculum across Scotland, and I would venture even further to say that such training should be a requirement to obtain a driving licence in the UK, so that we all knew what to do if we saw someone collapse.

09:41

[Lewis Cocking (Broxbourne) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I commend the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this important debate.

I want to focus on a local charity in my constituency, Hearts for Herts. In 2017, my constituent Justin Honey-Jones, an experienced paramedic, began the mission to provide an inclusive education programme of lifesaving skills and to champion the provision of public access lifesaving equipment, all from his garage in Hoddesdon. Since then, he has personally trained more than 1,000 people in lifesaving skills, raising hundreds of thousands of pounds, with every penny used to provide and maintain lifesaving equipment.

In the last 18 months alone, the charity has installed 75 public access defibrillators across Hertfordshire, and it will install another 55 before February next year. I have been proud to attend many of the openings of those vital defibrillators across my constituency, including at Barclay Park, where the first solar-powered defibrillator in Hertfordshire is now in place, and at the Methodist church in Hoddesdon. Incredibly, just 36 hours after the defibrillator was installed at the church, it was used in a medical emergency.

Hearts for Herts rightly focuses its efforts on making defibrillators as accessible as possible and installing them where they are most useful to nearby residents. That aim is justified by stories such as that of the Methodist church defibrillator, and is driven forward by the charity’s unique aim to make all school defibrillators publicly accessible. At no cost to the school, Justin will organise the entire conversion process, ensuring that the crucial equipment can be accessed all year round, at any time of the day. That has saved lives: a converted defibrillator at Broxbourne school was activated on Christmas day, and over this year’s summer holidays the defibrillator at Wormley primary school has been used three times.

Hearts for Herts goes further: alongside the defibrillators, it places bleed control kits in its cabinets. The ability to control heavy bleeding is the difference between life and death following, for example, a road traffic collision. That is why Justin has included 200 bleed control kits alongside his defibrillators and has plans to provide even more. The kits buy injured individuals valuable time until an ambulance can arrive. I hope all hon. Members will join me in commending Justin for his incredible work. I look forward to supporting him and Hearts for Herts for many years to come.

09:44

[Liz Twist (Blaydon and Consett) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this important debate. I know that the subject matters a great deal to constituents who have contacted me about defibrillators over the years.

I recently met a young woman in my constituency who told me about the cardiac arrest that her father experienced on the Derwent walk in January this year. Her dad was in his early 50s, with no prior major health issues, when he and his wife decided to take a walk in the snow. They were about two miles away from their home when he suffered a cardiac arrest. Although they were on a popular route for people across our region, and part of the famous coast-to-coast cycle path, there was no defibrillator within easy reach of him. Thankfully, nurses and policemen nearby were available to do CPR until the ambulance arrived about 20 minutes later, and he was able to make a recovery.

In April, however, he suffered a further cardiac arrest. He was found by his teenage daughters, who both work as lifeguards at Consett leisure centre in my constituency, and they were able to administer CPR while they waited for the ambulance to arrive. They were just 16 and 18 at the time. Their actions clearly saved their dad’s life. I commend their bravery at what must have been an incredibly frightening moment, but sadly people all too often cannot be revived by CPR after suffering a cardiac arrest. That is why it is so important that we make sure that defibrillators are easily accessible and that people know how to use them in emergencies.

As we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland, MPs are regularly contacted by organisations that seek to fundraise and to tell us about incidents in which defibrillators have been used, which is really important. I say a massive thank you to all my constituents in Blaydon and Consett who have organised the installation of defibrillators across our communities, including the councillors, community partnerships and groups of volunteers who have fundraised to provide them. I applaud the efforts of those at Stargate and Crookhill community centre, who are currently doing exactly that to ensure that they can maintain their defibrillators.

Once there is a defibrillator, it is not a done deal. The machines need new batteries and pads or replacements when parts can no longer be replaced owing to the age of the machine or after use. Communities who fundraise to set up defibrillators may be left to cover those costs, which puts areas with fewer resources at a disadvantage. Perhaps that is why research has shown that distance to the nearest 24/7 defibrillator increases with deprivation levels in England.

09:47

[Dr Roz Savage (South Cotswolds) (LD)]

As the MP for the South Cotswolds, I know that living in a rural area brings many blessings, but also some challenges. Ambulance wait times are nearly 50% longer in rural areas. When every second counts, that delay can make the difference between life and death. That is why access to defibrillators matters so profoundly.

Let me share the story of one of my constituents, Sonya Harris. In October 2023, Sonya collapsed outside her son’s school in Malmesbury after suffering a sudden cardiac arrest. Only about one in 10 people survive such an event. Sonya was one of those lucky ones: someone nearby knew CPR, a defibrillator was close at hand and she received swift care from the NHS and her family. Without that chain of good luck, she would not be here, and her son would be growing up without a mother. But survival from cardiac arrest should not come down to luck; it should come down to preparation.

I recently visited a newly installed defibrillator in my constituency. With huge thanks to the Lechlade Lions, the South Western ambulance service and Gloucestershire street lighting, Lechlade and Fairford now have some of the best defibrillator coverage in the country. They have pioneered the use of lamp post power to run devices, the first scheme of its kind in the south-west, making installation simpler and cheaper.

We should be broadening that approach across the whole country. Every community, rural or urban, deserves the same safety net. I advocate for defibrillators as a standard requirement in the planning process for all new housing estates and industrial estates. If developers include them from the outset, the cost is very reasonable—far lower than the cost of trying to retrofit them later on. New estates should be designed so that no home is more than 400 metres from a defibrillator, because when cardiac arrest happens, every moment counts.

Each year, thousands of lives are lost because help simply does not arrive quickly enough. By ensuring that defibrillators are widespread, visible and easy to access, we can change that. Let us make defibrillators as commonplace as fire extinguishers and as trusted as seat belts. Let us make sure that help is never more than a few steps away.

09:49

[Connor Naismith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)]

I sincerely thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this important debate. I will focus on the maintenance of defibrillators, which is intrinsic to access to this lifesaving equipment. In my constituency of Crewe and Nantwich, it represents a very real challenge. I want to share a story about the gravity of the situation.

In September last year, my constituent collapsed in Nantwich town centre, from a suspected cardiac arrest. CPR was administered by the public on site and a 999 call was made. The operator directed the member of the public to a defibrillator in the town centre, only for the member of the public to find, when they opened it, that it did not work. Another call was then made to 999 and they were directed to another defibrillator, which meant another 10-minute delay in finally administering treatment. We all know how vital it is that quick treatment be provided in cases of cardiac arrest. Sadly, the man who had the cardiac arrest did not survive; he passed away later. We do not know whether finding a working defibrillator first might have saved his life, but I am almost certain that it would have helped. I ask the Minister what plans the Government have to better regulate the maintenance of defibrillators.

I have spoken at length about the situation with the British Heart Foundation, which operates the Circuit, and with the British Healthcare Trades Association, and it is clear that there are improvements that we could make. As of August 2024, in Crewe and Nantwich there were roughly seven defibrillators per 10,000 people. The national average is just 10. They recommend that there be between 50 and 100 defibrillators per 10,000 people. What is more, according to the British Heart Foundation, 46.4% of postcodes in Crewe and Nantwich are out of direct reach of a defibrillator. In a context in which we know that, with defib use, the chances of surviving a cardiac arrest increase from just 8% to above 70%, the existence of such defib deserts is clearly not acceptable.

[Mrs Sureena Brackenridge (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)]

I am experiencing exactly the same problem in Wolverhampton North East: I am sad to announce that almost 70% of postcodes are not within easy reach of a defibrillator. Local community groups are stepping up, but they can be hit with a VAT charge of anything between £200 and £500 per device. Does my hon. Friend agree that an important step forward would be to review VAT on defibrillators, to widen access?

[Connor Naismith]

My hon. Friend has almost taken the words out of my mouth, because I was about to move on to some of the steps that we could take to address this issue. She is absolutely right. Clearly there is an issue with the VAT; as we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland, that is something that the Government should look at. It is also about ensuring that defibs are always accessible outside, about education on administering the equipment, about maintenance and about ensuring that defibs are on the Circuit wherever possible, because we know that in many cases they are not.

One thing is certain: inaction is not an option. This equipment saves lives. If we fail to act, we will continue to have avoidable deaths, unfortunately, as in the case of my constituent. The opportunity is there to save lives. I urge the Government to grip it.

09:54

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. I thank the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for setting the scene so very well and for his generosity in allowing time for us all to participate.

My interest in defibrillators goes back to an incident outside a school in my constituency. A parent who was coming to collect a child collapsed outside the school. Due to the good work of those who were there—there was a nurse there—CPR saved him. After that, a defibrillator was installed at the school.

Hon. Members may be aware that in December 2020 I introduced a private Member’s Bill about public access to defibrillators. The Government made movements at the time, although the Bill did not pass. I was proud of the steps that were taken, as the need for action had been made clear by the British Heart Foundation, which has been instrumental in pushing the matter forward.

Some 1,400 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests are reported in Northern Ireland every year, with fewer than 10% surviving. Public access defibrillators are now used in fewer than 5% of cardiac arrests that happen away from a hospital. When someone has a cardiac arrest, every minute without CPR or defibrillation reduces their chances of survival by about 10%. That was the rationale behind the Bill. I was pleased when the then UK youth education Minister and Health Minister, Jo Churchill, both reassured me that they would do all they could to ensure that schools and public areas would have ready access to AEDs, and that is what happened.

I have continued to press the Government on the issue. On 17 February, in answer to my question on access to defibrillators, the Minister wrote:

“The Government is committed to improving access to Automated External Defibrillators (AEDs) in public spaces, and reducing inequalities in access to these life saving devices. Following the depletion of the existing AED fund, launched in September 2023, the new Government approved a further £500,000 in August 2024 to fulfil existing applications to the fund.”

Who has filled the gap? It has been local charities and community groups. The Orange lodges have provided one in Newtownards in the past month, and another just before that in Craigantlet. The British Heart Foundation has opened a charity shop in the Ards shopping centre; the funds that it raises will save lives. I say a big thank you to all of them.

Clearly, we need effective, accessible defibrillators throughout communities as a standard, not as a bonus. Will the Minister give us some indication of discussions with the relevant Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly to ascertain whether there is a policy to move these things forward in a positive way? I fully support those calls. I was pleased that the Northern Ireland Assembly introduced a number of such measures through the then Education Minister, Peter Weir, who now sits in the other place.

I believe that more can and should be done to educate the general public to be fully confident in how to use defibrillators. Local churches, community groups and coffee shops should all have people who are trained and able to step in when needed. I commend the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland for moving the motion today; I will stand with him in this place as we seek to take steps to make a difference.

09:57

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

I thank my colleague and neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth), for securing this important debate.

Nearly half the postcodes in my constituency are not within easy reach of a defibrillator. That is not just a statistic, as we have heard; it is the difference between life and death. We know that when a defibrillator is used within three to five minutes of cardiac arrest, survival chances rise from just 8% to more than 70%, yet too often communities in Durham are left without timely access. This inequality is compounded by cost. Community groups, sports clubs and small businesses fundraising for devices face average VAT bills of £500 per defib. That is an unnecessary barrier to saving lives, so I join colleagues in urging the Government to look at abolishing the so-called heart restart tax.

One organisation that has done magnificent work in helping to get defibs into key locations across our region is Rotary North East, which has installed more than 100, including in Durham city centre. The work it does, particularly the work of my constituent Tom Sharples, has genuinely saved lives in the north east. Not only has Tom worked to roll out defibs across the region, in conjunction with our brilliant police community support officers for Brandon and Brancepeth, Paul and Dan, but he has invested his time in delivering training sessions for young people in those communities.

Following the harrowing scenes during the 2020 Euros, when Christian Eriksen suffered a cardiac arrest on the pitch, I became determined to improve lifesaving equipment. I supported the roll-out of CPR training for young people across my constituency.

In 2021, I led a campaign that helped bring about a change in Football Association policy. Since then, all new FA-funded facilities must have a defibrillator as standard. That was an important step forward, but it is only part of the solution. Every day, 80 to 90 people die from cardiac arrest outside hospital, and many of those lives could have been saved. Wider availability of defibs would save lives, reduce pressure on our ambulance service and prevent the devastating long-term impact of brain injury and loss that follows so many of these cases. I urge the Government to act to close the defibrillator gap, end the postcode lottery and give every community, including mine in the City of Durham, the fair access that they deserve.

10:00

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) on a sincere and thoughtful speech.

I am indebted to a lady called Elspeth Husband, a community first responder in Caithness. She made a point to me that echoed exactly what the hon. Member said about VAT: she services defibrillators, and the cost of pads and batteries is all subject to VAT. That seems straightforward wrong for such important lifesaving equipment. She also suggested that the same law that applies to lifebelts should apply to defibrillators—in other words, it would be an offence to use one wrongly or to remove one. I ask the Government to consider tightening up on that.

All the right points have been made about why defibrillators are so important, but I draw attention to my constituency, which is the northernmost, the most remote and the largest in the UK. Hon. Members can imagine that an eight-minute response time is extremely difficult in the area that I have the honour to represent. That is compounded by a decision taken by the Scottish Government in 2016 to centralise maternity services in Inverness, which obliges mothers to make a 200-mile round trip from the north of my constituency to give birth. I have talked about this many times in this place, and I am sorry if I have bored Members on the issue. Let us think on this: when the ambulance goes from Wick, Thurso, Bettyhill or a remote part of the north coast to Inverness with the mum on board, if somebody has a cardiac arrest, the defibrillator has headed south in the ambulance. To me, that is straightforward bonkers. That kit, which is vital for life saving, could be on the road many miles from where it is needed. To my mind, that is a perfect example of not-joined-up Scottish Government thinking, which is a disgrace. I conclude by saying this: I am more than disappointed that there is not a Scottish National party Member here to take part in this debate, because health does not respect boundaries between states or countries. Health is for everyone.

10:02

[John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this important debate. There can be no overstating the importance of publicly accessible defibrillators. If used within the first three to five minutes of a cardiac arrest, as hon. Members have said, they can increase the chance of survival by up to 70%. For a device that costs only a few thousand pounds, that is a truly remarkable statistic. I was told that stat by a remarkable constituent of mine, Naomi Rees-Issitt, at a defibrillator and CPR training session that she had arranged for the community. She knows more about the critical importance of defibrillators than most people, because she set up the OurJay Foundation after the tragic death of her son Jamie, who suffered a cardiac arrest. Although a defibrillator was nearby, it was inaccessible.

It is clear that a lack of accessible devices continues to hinder lifesaving intervention, but thanks to the incredible work of Naomi, her family and the OurJay Foundation, Rugby now has a significant number of accessible defibrillators. But it should not fall solely to charities and grieving families to bear the cost of this vital equipment. When the OurJay Foundation was established, Rugby had just seven 24/7 defibrillators for a town of 80,000 people. Today, thanks to its efforts, the number has risen to more than 170. They are triggered six to seven times a week. I welcome the Government’s commitment to improving access to automated external defibrillators, as hon. Members have referred to, so I will not rehearse that. The Government have also committed to providing a defibrillator in every state-funded school in England. Sadly, there remains no legal requirement for organisations to make AEDs available on their premises, although many have done so voluntarily. Could the Minister comment on whether the Government are considering this?

Naomi and the OurJay Foundation are also campaigning for AEDs to be put in every police car. Recent Home Office funding, which was very welcome, has enabled additional defibs for every force. Warwickshire police has secured 30 new defibs, which it is putting in specialist operations vehicles. I saw that for myself, alongside Naomi, and met the officers whose dedication to the public I commend. The urgency is underlined by recent figures from the Resuscitation Council, which show that out-of-hospital cardiac arrests in the UK have risen to 40,000 each year. The survival rate remains a devastating one in 10.

[Danny Beales (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for bringing this important discussion. My hon. Friend the Member for Rugby (John Slinger) rightly points out the survival challenge. We know that survival is improved with quick access to these vital devices. Many Members have described deserts of access to these devices in their constituencies. In my own constituency there are only four devices per 10,000 people, so 70% of people do not have access in the three to five-minute timescale that my hon. Friend recommended. Does he agree that to improve that stat, it is vital that we get more devices in the community and, fundamentally, that we make it cheaper to access these devices for community groups, local and national Government and the police forces that he mentions?

[John Slinger]

I agree entirely. Obviously, there is not an unlimited amount of money, but we—whether Government, hon. Members, charities or businesses—must do everything we can to ensure more devices in our communities.

I will conclude by saying that Naomi is calling for Jamie’s law. This would make it mandatory for all police vehicles to carry defibrillators. I am sure that hon. Members in and beyond this room would agree that across our country we should do everything we can to increase the number of defibrillators, and am sure that I am not alone in having lost a friend who died young from a heart attack. I pay tribute to Naomi Rees-Issitt for her effort and her dedication to saving lives in the community in memory of her son. She is an example to all of us of taking action to save lives.

10:06

[Anna Sabine (Frome and East Somerset) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for bringing this important debate. As someone whose parents both died as a result of cardiac arrest, I know the impact that these kinds of sudden medical events can have on families.

Every minute without defibrillation after a cardiac arrest reduces a person’s chance of survival by 10%. That means just five minutes of delay could cut their chance of survival in half. Yet in the south-west, in constituencies like Frome and East Somerset, access to these lifesaving devices remains dangerously limited, especially in rural communities where ambulance response times can be alarmingly long. Defibrillators are already expensive, typically costing between £800 and £1,500 per unit, but there is a hidden barrier that the Government could easily remove—the 20% VAT on them. This tax drives up costs, making it harder for schools, sports clubs, public buildings and community centres to afford them. For a device that can mean the difference between life and death, charging VAT is simply unacceptable. I endorse the calls that have been made here for first aid training in schools, and the call by my hon. Friend the Member for South Cotswolds (Dr Savage) for defibrillators in new developments, but removing VAT now would make defibrillators more affordable for community groups and local councils. It would also signal a clear commitment from the Government to improving survival outcomes in the UK, particularly in more rural communities.

In Frome and surrounding villages, we are very fortunate to have 29 defibrillators that are monitored and maintained by eight dedicated defibrillator guardians, who are part of Friends of Frome hospital. These eight guardians regularly check the defibrillators to ensure that they are in working order and fit for the community. When originally supplied, the defibrillators had a service life of 10 years, but this was reduced to eight years in 2018. This year, 20 of Frome’s defibrillators will reach the end of their service life. Their replacement will come at a significant cost to the Friends of Frome hospital, made worse by the added burden of VAT. We are incredibly lucky in Frome to have this group of dedicated volunteers, but for many people in more rural areas of my constituency, access to a defibrillator is still too far away. I ask the Minister to tell us why the Government will not remove VAT from this essential device. This would allow more to be installed and ease the financial worries of volunteers and communities who work tirelessly to keep their neighbours safe.

10:08

[Amanda Hack (North West Leicestershire) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. I thank the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for bringing forward this important debate. I declare my membership of the all-party parliamentary group for defibrillators.

As has already been said, every minute that someone is in cardiac arrest without receiving CPR and defibrillation, their chance of survival decreases by 10%. I recently hosted CPR and defib training in my constituency, with an outstanding East Midlands Ambulance volunteer trainer, supported by Resuscitation Council UK. It was made clear that every single moment counts when starting CPR. If it needs to be performed, get help. Every minute can feel like a long time when carrying out chest compressions, but it is vital to continue until professional help and a defib become available. I also encourage everyone to complete free training online, and, if possible, attend an in-person course.

In my constituency, almost 50% of postcodes are not within easy reach of a defibrillator. On average, my constituents have a five-minute run, not including the time it takes to locate and unlock the defib. The stark reality of how far a new local business, CoalWorks, was from the nearest defib inspired it to take action. It successfully fundraised to install one at its gym on the business park. With its efforts, it was able to purchase an additional unit, and thanks to the partnership with Hinckley and Rugby building society, a second defib will soon be available in the centre of Coalville, benefiting the wider community. The cabinet outside the building has already been installed.

Having publicly accessible defibs is so vital. Let us imagine it is a Sunday and the only defib nearby is locked inside a closed shop: with so many sports clubs active on Sundays, and with exercise known to exacerbate underlying cardiac conditions, it is vital that these defibs are 24/7, yet too many remain tucked away. It is no surprise that Resuscitation Council UK estimates that the survival rate for out-of-hospital cardiac arrests in North West Leicestershire is just 1.6%. But small changes can make a huge impact.

[Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating the work of Bournemouth Heart Club, which promotes good heart health, and also Regency Living, HENRA—Hengistbury Residents’ Association—and St Nicholas Church, which funded a defibrillator at St Nicholas Church that, just seven weeks after installation, saved a life at Hengistbury Head? Some 41% of postcodes in Bournemouth East are outside of direct reach of a defibrillator. Does she agree that we need to end this postcode lottery now?

[Amanda Hack]

Of course, I agree; heart health is really important, but access is key, too. We can all do our own bit. We can check if the defib nearest to us is registered and encourage a community audit. If it is not registered, someone in an emergency might not know it is there. Every school in North West Leicestershire has received a defib from the Department for Education, but it appears that only 28% have registered theirs—not even half. I will be writing to every school in my constituency to urge them to get their devices out of the box and on to the register.

We can also petition our local stores, supermarkets, schools and GP practices to mount their defibs on the outside of their buildings, where they are always accessible, and we can fundraise to secure new defibs in the most impactful locations. One resident contacted me after a fundraiser at the Kings Arms in Coleorton, expressing frustration that VAT is charged on lifesaving equipment purchased with charitable donations. I ask the Minister to consider that in her response.

There is so much more to say: I feel deeply passionate about the urgent need for more defibs, greater knowledge about CPR and defib use, better awareness of heart health and a wider screening programme to detect risk—in young people in particular.

That was it: around three minutes. Had resuscitation not been started while I was speaking, the chances of surviving a cardiac arrest would have dropped by 30%.

10:13

[Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst (Solihull West and Shirley) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I also congratulate the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) on securing this important debate, and I start by sending my condolences to George Smith’s family at this very difficult time.

Many Members may know that, before coming to this place, I was both a doctor and a barrister. As a doctor, I worked predominantly in acute care, so I have seen the brutal speed with which cardiac arrest can lead to death. But as a barrister, I specialised in inquests and clinical negligence, and I also saw what happened when people did not get timely interventions, and the devastating consequences that arose.

As many Members have set out, the stark reality is that every minute counts. Every minute reduces life expectancy by 10%. If someone gets prompt intervention, their survival rate can be as high as 70% if their defib is within 200 metres of their location. That is a three-to-five-minute brisk walk there and back. But the stark reality is that out-of-hospital arrests have a survival rate of less than one in 12. Compared with in-hospital arrests, the survival rate to discharge is in the region of 25%. That is why this was an important focus for me when I was elected to Parliament for Solihull West and Shirley.

Despite the fact that my constituency has a mix of urban and semi-rural places, only 40.32% of our defibs are within the recommended distance and there are only seven public defibs per 10,000 people, which is well below the national recommendation. Across the United Kingdom, the per-population count for defibs is approximately five to 10 times lower than it is in a country such as Japan. That cannot be right in this day and age, which is why, for one of my office fundraisers this year, we all went and did the Solihull way. We walked 20-odd miles in the day, and raised money for two defibs and some bleed kits on behalf of a brilliant charity called the Daniel Baird Foundation. It was particularly moving to be able to donate one of those defibs to the Wave café in my constituency, where a valued member of the community had sadly died some months earlier because they did not have access to a defib.

I am going to reiterate a couple of calls that have already been made to the Minister, who I know has been listening carefully. First, we should exempt defibs from VAT—it is ridiculous. For every five defibs that are currently bought, we could afford another if we got rid of VAT.

[Douglas McAllister (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab)]

I agree with the hon. Member that this is a UK-wide issue. However, my concern is the potential for inequality and the need to ensure that poorer communities such as my constituency, where 63% of postcodes are out of direct reach of these lifesaving machines, are not left behind. The hon. Member referred to the fact that he is a barrister; believe it or not, because public and community access is essential, defibs are often stolen or vandalised, so does he agree not only that a VAT exemption would help to tackle the issue of inequality in poorer constituencies, but that we should consider creating a specific criminal offence to help to protect these vital machines?

[Dr Shastri-Hurst]

The hon. Member makes a really important point. The consequences of vandalism or damage to this equipment can be life-changing—it can end a life. The ramifications have to be clearly pointed out and reflected in the law of the land.

Secondly, my hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries and Galloway (John Cooper) and I recently wrote to the Secretary of State for Transport about expanding education on lifesaving skills as part of driving tests, and we should also incorporate it more into the national curriculum. Will the Minister speak to her colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care and the Department for Transport about ensuring that everybody in this country knows not only where a defib is but how to operate one, to enable lifesaving interventions as quickly as possible?

10:17

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this debate, because it could not be more important.

Cardiac arrest can strike at any time and in any place, and when it does, every second counts. We know that defibrillation within three minutes can increase survival chances by more than 70%, but those odds fall by 10% for every minute without access to a defibrillator. A cardiac arrest is one of the most terrifying experiences that anyone, or their loved ones, can face. It often comes without warning at the very moment we least expect it.

The harsh reality is that, in rural Scotland, delays in ambulance response times can mean the difference between life and death. It cannot be right that people in rural communities face lower survival chances simply because lifesaving tools are out of reach.

[Patrick Hurley (Southport) (Lab)]

First, I add my voice to those calling for VAT to be removed from defibs. That appears to be an easy win for the Government at the coming Budget.

Secondly, a lot of Members have spoken about voluntary groups and charities in their constituencies that do good work. The Southport Saviours charity in my constituency does sterling work to raise funds and awareness and to put defibrillators into parks and on to the streets. The charity organises the annual “Defib Dash” fundraising run, which takes places later this month and which I have, perhaps in an ill-advised moment, signed up for. Will my hon. Friend commend charities across the country and give her support for the work they do?

[Johanna Baxter]

I absolutely commend the work that charities such as the Southport Saviours are doing to raise money for this vital equipment.

If anything, the lack of emergency services makes it all the more vital that defibrillators are readily available, yet too often they are not. In my constituency, our vibrant villages are at the very heart of our cultural identity. Kilbarchan is a village of 3,500 people, with one of the oldest populations in Renfrewshire. It has a proud and active community council, which recently undertook public CPR projects, hosted training sessions and ran a thorough consultation on this issue. The findings were clear: the village did not have enough public access to defibrillators for its size and layout.

Kilbarchan needed three more devices to bring it up to the recommended standard. The cost? Just £3,800. Despite its fundraising efforts, it fell a little short and applied to the SNP-run Renfrewshire council for support through the villages investment fund. The council’s response, delivered last week, was to grant only £1,600—less than half of what was required. One of Kilbarchan’s brilliant local councillors, Gill Graham, described that decision as “stingy in the extreme”. I have to say that I wholeheartedly agree with her. For the sake of £2,200, the council chose not to ensure that the village has the lifesaving equipment it needs.

Is it any wonder that trust in politics is so low when communities are met with that kind of penny-pinching? This is about not just the message it sends but the lives it risks. What makes it even more incomprehensible is the broader context: last year, the Labour Government provided the Scottish Government at Holyrood with the highest funding settlement they have ever had in the history of devolution. It is therefore unacceptable that communities in Scotland are being forced to rely on fundraising and charity drives to secure something as basic and essential as a public defibrillator.

The truth is that the SNP Government in Holyrood are not funding defibrillators themselves and have underfunded local authorities, which could provide the money, year after year. That chronic underfunding has forced councils into incomprehensible choices where, unbelievably, public safety and survival are being sacrificed. That is indefensible and I urge the Minister to raise this issue with her counterparts in the Holyrood Government.

10:22

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

Thank you for your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I thank the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for raising this important issue.

Saving lives should be in the interests of us all, and I am sure that is what brings us here today, but we have some hard questions to ask of Government. When the availability of defibrillators can definitively save lives and the absence of them can cost lives, we have to address the question of whether the Government are doing enough to fill the gap. One particular issue of concern relates to VAT, which I will return to.

We know from the statistics that the chances of surviving a heart attack that takes place outside a hospital setting are low—maybe as low as 8%—but that if a defibrillator is available, the chance of survival can increase by 70%. The key factor is the proximity of the defibrillator: the three to five minutes—the vital lifesaving window. Therefore, many of us who represent rural constituencies are concerned at the dearth of supply in some of our areas. In my North Antrim constituency, 63% of postcodes do not have a defibrillator within the three-to-five-minute lifesaving range. That is quite disturbing.

I pay tribute to the many community organisations that provide this lifesaving equipment. Very often, it is not the Government, education authorities or health trusts that put a defibrillator in the local village, but a local community organisation. The Government demand 20% in VAT from that community organisation, which is not VAT-registered and has no possibility of reclaiming it. It really is quite disturbing that the Government think they need that pound of flesh in taxation on defibrillators.

If the Minister takes away nothing else from this debate, I ask her to take away this fundamental humane appeal: instead of making it harder by putting a tax on lifesaving equipment, the Government should make defibrillators VAT-exempt supplies. If they made them VAT-exempt, there would be a huge opportunity to bring an uplift in life and survival to our communities.

10:25

[James Naish (Rushcliffe) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) on securing this important debate.

I pay tribute to Dylan Rich, a Rushcliffe constituent who tragically passed away aged 17 from a cardiac arrest, during a game between West Bridgford Colts and Boston United in Nottinghamshire in 2021. He was an extremely talented footballer, and his family and friends have dedicated themselves to creating a positive legacy from his tragic early death, notably through the Dylan Rich Legacy, a registered charity that provides funding for charitable projects that, among other things, promote access to sport for young people in Nottinghamshire.

In addition, Dylan’s family and friends have raised money for the installation of defibrillators in the local area and for fantastic related charities such as Cardiac Risk in the Young. I am sure the whole Chamber will join me in paying tribute to their important work.

Despite that very high profile, tragic death in Rushcliffe, data from 2024 suggests that over 60% of my—admittedly rural—constituency is still not within a three to five-minute walk of a defibrillator. I acknowledge the work of the last Government on this matter, but I think everyone here would agree that our ambitions must go further and faster if we want to improve survival rates.

As so many Members have said—we have clearly read the same briefing note—every minute without a defibrillator being used reduces a cardiac arrest victim’s chance of survival by 10%. In other words, a lack of access to a defibrillator means a high chance of death, longer stays in hospital or more complex care needs in the long run. Greater accessibility and the quicker use of defibrillators will therefore save the NHS in long-term medical care costs.

I want to put on the record my support for the Heart Restart Tax campaign, which many Members have talked about. We already exempt from VAT defibrillators bought by the NHS and some small charities, but a cricket club, football club or small business in my constituency should not be discouraged from taking the same lifesaving action. This is a classic example of a small policy change that could go a long way. Many other examples have been mentioned, and I hope that the Minister, on behalf of the Government, has listened closely to what Members have said in reiterating the importance of such small policy changes.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Graham Stringer (in the Chair)]

Order. There are three hon. Members left wishing to speak. We have done quite well, but I am going to reduce the time limit to one minute and 30 seconds, which still means taking a bite out of the wind-up speeches.

10:28

[Luke Taylor (Sutton and Cheam) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer.

We have heard the terrifying statistics on the number of out-of-hospital cardiac arrests that occur each year, and about the terrifying survival rates. The outcomes for cardiac arrests remain stubbornly poor in London—which should be one of the easiest places in the country to provide good access to defibrillators—primarily because the equipment is still out of reach. That is why the work of charities such as the Paul Alan Project is so important. The charity was founded by Sutton resident Clare Parish in memory of her late father, Paul Alan Parish. She was standing beside her father when, in January 2022, he died of a cardiac arrest without warning while they cheered on Fulham at Craven Cottage.

I have heard Clare talk movingly about her father, and her resolve that CPR and defibrillator training should be widely accessible to everyone. She told me that losing her father in a crowd full of people, none of whom had had proper CPR training, was a tragedy that inspired her into action. The Paul Alan Project provides that training—which I have taken myself—free of charge, raises awareness of accessible emergency equipment, and fundraises for and installs bleed kits and defibs across the community. Clare is tireless in making sure that barriers to accessing not just training, but the defibs themselves, becomes a thing of the past. She partners with local businesses to get defibs—

[Graham Stringer (in the Chair)]

Order.

10:30

[Shockat Adam (Leicester South) (Ind)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. I thank the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this debate on what is literally a matter of life and death.

Last week, I was fortunate enough to unveil a new community defibrillator in the Evington ward of my constituency, thanks to the dedicated work of community champions such as Teej and organisations such as the Evington Road Neighbourhood Association, and to the generosity of the local pharmacy, Pearl Chemist, which allowed them to use its wall. That work shows that when people get together they can achieve anything, but it also highlights the wider crisis that access remains a postcode lottery.

A quarter of the postcodes in my constituency are not within easy reach of a defibrillator. Every single day, 80 to 90 people die from a cardiac arrest out of hospital. However, when a defib is used quickly, not only does it save lives, but recovery is faster and the risk of comorbidities, including brain damage, and the need for long-term care are dramatically reduced. An intensive care unit bed costs around £2,300 a night, but a patient treated with a defibrillator within one minute will often avoid intensive care altogether and suffer far fewer longer-term complications. Early access to a defibrillator therefore saves the NHS and the Government significant amounts of money, as well as saving lives.

Defibrillators should be readily available everywhere, but one area where they are not is places of worship. I ask Ministers to scrap the VAT and give peace of mind to our communities.

10:31

[Susan Murray (Mid Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. I thank the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for raising this important issue and for highlighting that every day in the United Kingdom, people suffer out-of-hospital cardiac arrests and do not survive, when they might have been saved by access to a defibrillator.

In my constituency, more than 60% of people live in a defib desert. Concerned about that, Kirkintilloch Rob Roy football club has compiled a list of locations of defibrillators in its area and shared the information widely, while groups such as Torrance parish church and Milngavie and Bearsden Men’s Shed have equipped their facilities with them. The efforts of people in our communities are saving lives, and the increasing number of defibrillators is a good sign. While there are still not enough, we are heading in the right direction.

I want to highlight the Lauren’s law campaign, which was started following the sudden death of a 19-year-old from an asthma attack and calls for the provision of non-prescription salbutamol asthma inhalers at defibrillator sites. In that way, we can save even more lives by having emergency equipment available and accessible in our communities. I urge the Government to make defibrillators easier for our communities and first responders to access—and by providing inhalers in the same locations, we can prevent even more unnecessary deaths.

[Graham Stringer (in the Chair)]

We come now to the Front-Bench contributions. I ask spokespeople to keep their speeches to about eight minutes, which will leave a very short time for the Member in charge to respond to the debate.

10:33

[Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this vital debate on such an important topic.

The impact of heart conditions is felt acutely by so many across the country and, as we have heard, there are Members here today for whom this debate holds particular resonance. Cardiovascular disease affects 7 million people in the UK and is responsible for one in four premature deaths. It is also one of the starkest drivers of health inequality: those in the most deprived communities are twice as likely to die as those in the wealthiest, and for people living with severe mental illness the risk of death rises by 85%.

The figures on heart attacks, many of which are caused by heart disease, are grim. Every year, around 80,000 people suffer an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. Emergency services attempt to resuscitate roughly 30,000 of them, yet fewer than 10% survive, as we have heard from many hon. Members. Half those incidents are witnessed by somebody else, and survival depends heavily on immediate action: starting CPR, calling for help without delay and, if possible, getting access to a defibrillator.

I recently spent time in my constituency at our first Emergency Services Day. I pay tribute to the tireless efforts of the paramedics and ambulance staff, and also the voluntary organisations, which play such a crucial role in saving thousands of lives. Public campaigns that explain the steps to take when someone collapses are crucial to improving survival rates. These must continue across the country, but the most decisive factor is timely access to a defibrillator. Defibrillation within three to five minutes of collapse can increase survival rates by 50% to 70%. Literally every second counts. Defibrillators have already saved thousands of lives, but access is patchy, and often, where need is greatest, the provision is weakest. Poorer areas often have fewer defibrillators than wealthier ones, with huge disparities between different parts of the country.

The British Heart Foundation recommends that every postcode should be within a three to five-minute walk of a defibrillator. Currently, that is achieved in only 50% of postcodes. Access to lifesaving equipment must never depend on postcode or privilege. Too often, defibrillators are procured only after a tragedy has already struck, as I have seen at first hand. A good friend of mine, Andrew Chiverton, suffered a cardiac arrest as he left his front door. He survived thanks to the quick action of another friend of mine, Jeanette Sutton, who saw him collapse and performed CPR until the ambulance could arrive. That incident prompted a local campaign to fund a community defibrillator and train local people, myself included, in what to do when someone suffers a cardiac arrest.

We must immediately take proactive steps to reduce the barriers preventing communities from having these lifesaving devices. The first of those barriers is cost. Community organisations, sports clubs, schools and businesses may have to pay up to £2,500 for a defibrillator. That is prohibitive for many, when they have so many other costs to consider. The Liberal Democrats therefore support the removal of VAT on community defibrillators, to make the devices more affordable across the nation. Maintenance and upkeep are equally important, as without them, the risk of a device malfunctioning when called upon increases—we have heard a perfect example of that today—but that requires local training and sustainable funding, for example through the community defibrillator fund.

Investment in the technology is also vital. Defibrillators have already been transformative, but the development of smaller, more portable models suitable for households and workplaces could be revolutionary. May I press the Minister on what steps the Government are taking to encourage innovation and economies of scale in the production of small-scale defibrillators, so that they can become a regular part of households and workplaces, making access far more universal?

Another priority must be better data. Ambulance services and 999 call handlers can only direct people to the nearest defibrillator if the location has been recorded. If nobody knows where it is, it is effectively useless. The Circuit has made excellent progress in mapping defibrillators and sharing that information with local ambulance services, helping to highlight the so-called defibrillator deserts, but it needs greater support. What steps are the Government taking to improve identification, registration and visibility of defibrillators, so that they can always be used when they are needed most?

Beyond defibrillator access, we must address the root causes of cardiovascular health issues. Britain should be one of the healthiest countries in the world, but after years of Conservative government, the nation has become sicker and now lags behind its international peers. The Health Secretary promised to deliver the healthiest generation ever, but promises are not policies. The Government should start by reversing cuts to public health grants, enabling local authorities to take preventive steps against cardiovascular disease. These grants fund programmes such as smoking cessation, drug and alcohol services, children’s health initiatives and, vitally, the provision of free blood pressure tests. A portion should also be ringfenced for tackling health inequalities, which are so clearly reflected in rates of cardiovascular disease. Alongside that, national action is needed: investment in active travel, wider use of social prescribing and the implementation of a coherent food strategy. Taken together, these measures will lead to people living healthier, more active lifestyles, which, alongside steps to improve access to defibrillation, will save thousands of lives.

Will the Minister look into the feasibility of removing VAT on defibrillators? How are the Government supporting staff in the maintenance of these devices and in understanding processes and procedures? What supervision is offered to staff tasked with being guardians or custodians of defibrillators in the public sector and what support is available after a defibrillator has been used in a community setting? Will the Government commit to reversing the cuts to public health grants to allow communities to begin tackling the causes of cardiovascular disease? This debate has shown both the urgency of the challenge and the solutions that are within our reach, but without Government action, progress will remain piecemeal.

10:40

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this very important debate. I declare an interest: as an NHS consultant, I have used defibrillators on patients from elderly adults to very young babies—although, thankfully, their use on children is relatively uncommon.

Modern defibrillators are clever devices—they are capable of delivering varying joules of energy and of delivering synchronised shock, in line with the heartbeat, for cardioversion—but in their simplest, most common use, they deliver an electrical shock to the heart, essentially depolarising all the myocardial cells at the same time, allowing a reset moment, which hopefully allows the natural pacemaker to take over with a normal rhythm.

As we have heard this morning, that can be lifesaving. The survival rate for cardiac arrest is poor, and it is lower still for the 30,000 that happen outside hospital settings every year. According to Resuscitation Council UK, 9% of people who have an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest will survive to discharge from hospital, but research suggests that defibrillation within three to five minutes for those patients who need it can increase that figure to 50%. If we want to save lives, improving access to defibrillators is really important. I pay tribute to the community groups supporting and fundraising for their communities—both those mentioned today by various hon. Members, and the very many across my constituency and the wider UK that have not been mentioned.

I want to talk about the last Government’s work in this area. They instituted the community automated external defibrillators fund to allow town halls, parks and post offices to install defibs, and they matched it, based on an application form, to areas of rurality and increased need where there were less likely to be defibrillators. In 2023 the Conservative Government also supplied external defibrillator devices—more than 20,000 of them—to every state school across our country, making them much more available.

Many people, including my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull West and Shirley (Dr Shastri-Hurst), have talked today about the importance of education and making sure that people know how to do CPR. Others have talked about the success of CPR in individual cases. The previous Government added first aid and CPR to the national curriculum in 2020. Has the Minister been advocating for it to remain there, in the light of the current Government’s review of the national curriculum?

The hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Connor Naismith) talked about the catastrophe that can occur when a defibrillator that is supposed to work does not. The 999 call handlers will direct people to the nearest defibrillator that they are aware of, but there is no national Government register of defibrillators. The British Heart Foundation’s The Circuit network collects data, which is provided voluntarily, that it can then provide to 999 call handlers and others. As part of that, it issues reminders to ensure that maintenance is done and that people are checking that the equipment is still in good order. Is the Minister happy with the current processes? Is she aware how many times a year somebody goes to a defibrillator that is not working, and what is she doing to minimise that? Maintenance requires battery and pad changes because of expiry dates, and machines need to be kept clean and checked after use. Is the Minister satisfied with the feedback loop for that? What is she doing to improve it? Medical devices regulations ensure that adverse events are reported. Can she tell the House how many people experience such events and what she is doing to minimise those?

I also want to talk about managed obsolescence. I was talking recently to a resus officer for an NHS hospital in England, who told me that every single defibrillator in the trust, which covers several hospitals, is being replaced because the company that makes the defibrillators that are currently used has stopped making spare parts for them. That has required the trust to buy a raft of very expensive new equipment. What is the Minister doing to ensure that spare parts have to be kept available, and for what period will they have to be available?

I want to talk about the safety of women. We have talked about health inequalities in this debate, but women are 28% less likely to receive CPR in a public venue—a shocking statistic. Why is it the case? Partly it is because when someone is doing CPR and wants to move on to defibrillate, the defibrillator pads have to be put on to bare skin. That means removing the clothing from the patient. It means exposing the chest. It may mean touching the breasts, to move them slightly out of the way to place the pads. People are uncomfortable and concerned about that, in some cases. In fact, in some cases they are concerned about the legal issues they may face if they do it but perhaps get something medically wrong. We need to ensure that that is not the case, and that people are aware. The mannequins that we use do not have breasts; they are essentially male mannequins. We have child and baby mannequins, but female mannequins are not in widespread use. What is the Minister doing to ensure that the 51% of the population who are female have the same access to defibrillation, and to reassure the public so that they are well educated in how to provide defibrillation to female patients and know that they can do so without fear of litigation?

My hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Lewis Cocking) talked about Justin’s Hearts for Herts campaign. One change during my medical career was from ABC—airway, breathing and circulation—to catastrophic haemorrhage ABC in trauma cases. I am pleased to hear that, across my hon. Friend’s constituency, bleed packs are being made available. I want to thank the people from SHOCK Sleaford, North Kesteven district council and the Safer Lincolnshire Partnership, who have just completed fundraising and co-located four bleed packs across my local area. That means that people experiencing catastrophic haemorrhage, perhaps from a farming or vehicular accident, will be able to have their lives saved. Does the Minister have any plans to ensure that such bleed packs are located across the country, to improve the safety of people everywhere?

I was interested to hear what the hon. Member for Mid Dunbartonshire (Susan Murray) said about inhalers. There are arguments for provision of all sorts of things: inhalers and EpiPens come immediately to mind when thinking about how we can improve the safety of people across the country with access to things that can immediately save lives. Finally, as many hon. Members have mentioned in this debate, it is important to ensure that such devices are available without being taxed. Although I know that the Government like to tax, it seems counterproductive and counterintuitive to tax something that is potentially lifesaving, and that could even save the NHS money.

10:47

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Ashley Dalton)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. I thank all hon. Members who have contributed to the debate. It has been really well attended, with over 20 Back-Bench contributions. I also thank the Front-Bench spokespeople for their contributions. I will try to respond to all the issues raised, but there have been a tremendous number, so if I cannot respond to them all, I will write to hon. Members on any that I do not cover.

I recognise the individuals who have been honoured by hon. Members, particularly Tom Sharples, Naomi Rees-Issitt, Dylan Rich and his family, and Andrew and Jeanette, all of whom have been appropriately recognised. I also particularly thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing the debate. I was sorry to hear how his mum needed emergency resuscitation when he was a child, and I offer my deepest sympathies on the death of his friend and colleague, George Smith.

A cardiac arrest can be an incredibly frightening experience for a person and their loved ones. My hon. Friend knows that rapid access to defibrillators can be the difference between life and death. As he said, early defibrillation within three to five minutes of collapse can increase a person’s chances of survival by as much as 50% to 70%. Thanks to data collected by the British Heart Foundation, we know that AEDs are only used around one in 10 times where they could have saved a life. I am pleased to update the House on what the Government are doing to drive that figure upwards. Our 10-year plan for health is shifting the focus of our NHS from hospitals to community. It is right that local communities are leading the way through public bodies, businesses and charities. I commend the hard work of London Hearts, AED Donate and the Community Heartbeat Trust and other organisations raised today. Forgive me if I miss some of them: Hearts for Herts, Lucky2Bhere, Stargate & Crookhill Community Centre, Lechlade Lions, Friends of Frome Hospital, the Daniel Berg Foundation, Southport Saviours, the Paul Alan Project, Evanton Residents’ Association and Lauren’s campaign. There are many more organisations and projects working hard to improve access to AEDs for all.

There are now more than 110,000 AEDs across the UK registered on the Circuit, the independent AED database backed by the NHS. The Circuit continues to see a regular increase in the number of defibs registered. I was delighted to hear hon. Members talk about encouraging defib guardians in their areas to register. More than 30,000 have been added in the past two years alone and we look forward to more. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland highlighted, more than 3,000 were provided by the Department of Health and Social Care’s community defibrillator fund.

My hon. Friend also rightly pointed out gaps in provision across the UK. As someone who represents a rural constituency, I completely understand his position and that of hon. Members from other rural communities, many of whom spoke in today’s debate. That is why we have partnered with Smarter Society, which has helped us get AEDs to communities with the greatest need where they have the greatest impact. That includes remote communities with extended ambulance response times, places with high footfall and hotspots for cardiac arrests, such as sporting arenas, venues for vulnerable people and deprived areas.

We fully funded the first 100 devices distributed by the Smarter Society, and have committed to supporting communities by matching the funds they spend on defibrillators pound for pound. Local communities will determine where defibs are kept for the best response to the needs of their communities. Unfortunately, defibs sometimes get stolen and communities are best placed to decide whether they should be in locked cabinets. Some charities, such as the British Heart Foundation, insist that devices they provide are kept unlocked.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Douglas McAllister) made the interesting suggestion that the theft or damage of a defib should be a specified offence, which I will raise with relevant Ministers. If the defibrillator is registered on the Circuit, the national AED network, the guardian will receive regular reminders to record checks on the AED. To support maintenance, the Circuit sends guardians notifications and records when an AED is used, so as to notify the guardian that pads will need to be replaced.

Many hon. Members referred to training. AEDs are designed to be simple yet lifesaving devices that anyone can use without formal training. That said, training can help people use defibrillators with greater confidence. The NHS runs training sessions on first aid, CPR and the use of defibrillators in communities and schools, to support Resuscitation Council UK’s “Restart a Heart” initiative. The NHS England has trained more than 35,800 adults and children in CPR and defibrillation in the past 13 years, and more than 2,100 people since January 2025. NHS England also runs workshops in harder-to-reach communities and ethnically diverse groups, training more than 400 people this year.

I was interested to hear the shadow Minister’s comments about women, and some people’s reluctance to use defibs. I will speak to the Minister responsible for women’s health about how that can be improved.

Many Members raised ambulance response times, which the Government are determined to improve so that people can be reassured that help is on the way. Our urgent and emergency care plan commits to reducing ambulance response times for category 2 incidents to 30 minutes on average this year. We are tackling unacceptable handover delays by introducing a maximum 45-minute standard, ensuring that ambulances are released more quickly and get back on the road to treat patients. I am pleased that in the region of my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland the latest figures show that average response times for category 1—the most serious, life-threatening cases—were six minutes and 13 seconds, which is faster than the national standard of seven minutes. The hard work of paramedics, clinicians and NHS staff makes that possible, and I commend them for that. We will continue to do all we can from Government to support those improvements and reduce variation in response times across the country.

Many hon. Members who spoke today raised the issue of VAT on devices and parts. I do not want the provision of defibrillators in communities to be a matter of cost—I will discuss that with Treasury colleagues. Decisions on VAT are a matter for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor. I will make sure that Treasury colleagues are aware of the issues raised in this debate today. The Government will continue to keep the matter under review.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland spoke powerfully about the prevention issues. Anyone who has read our 10-year plan for the NHS will know that he is pushing at an open door on that with this Government, because our ambition to cut premature mortality from heart disease and stroke by a quarter within a decade is a key tenet of our 10-year plan. We are making that shift from treatment to prevention. While we are tough on treating cardiac arrest, we will act on what public health doctors call the “causes of the causes”, with action on smoking, obesity, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and access to green spaces for exercise. This year we have set targets for integrated care boards to increase the percentage of patients with GP-recorded CVD who have their cholesterol levels managed to safer levels. Almost nine in 10 people with GP-recorded hypertension in England had their blood pressure checked in the last year, and more than two thirds had their blood pressure treated to target in the last year.

The NHS health check programme engages over 1.4 million people and, through behavioural and clinical interventions, prevents around 500 heart attacks or strokes a year. We are also making the shift from analogue to digital. To improve the programme’s uptake and engagement we are developing the NHS health check online, which will be available through the NHS app.

The Opposition’s shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson), spoke about the national curriculum review. I will ensure that the issues are raised with my colleagues in the Department for Education. I was very interested to hear the ideas and thoughts of the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller), on innovation; I commit to exploring that further.

I once again thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland for securing this important debate. I look forward to working with him long into the future to get stuff done. I hope we have shown that the Government are committed to shifting the focus from hospital to community, moving care closer to people through community-based initiatives and targets, and embracing the digital transformation of the NHS. Together those shifts will mean healthier communities, more lives saved and an NHS fit for the future.

10:58

[Sam Rushworth]

I thank everybody who has participated today. There have been 22 Back-Bench contributions from across six political groups, all in broad agreement with each other. We have heard some strong calls about VAT; I am grateful for the Minister’s commitment to raise that with Treasury colleagues, but that is just the start—the common-sense, no-brainer stuff about not having a tax on restarting hearts.

I really appreciated the contributions on working to ensure that more defibrillators are external and that more are registered; on preventing theft; on ensuring they are in working order; on the potential to add other medical devices; and on ensuring that more people are trained. I also appreciated the contribution from the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson) about the propensity to act, which can be challenging in the circumstances. I thank all the people who have spoken about different community groups in their areas. In a month when the media have been focused on the meaning of patriotism, nothing is more patriotic to me than the group mentioned by the hon. Member for Frome and East Somerset (Anna Sabine), the Friends of Frome Hospital, who no doubt are baking cakes and running jumble sales to provide vital lifesaving equipment. That is true patriotism from the British public. But it should not just be left to the British public—

[Graham Stringer (in the Chair)]

Order. Will hon. Members leave as quickly as possible so that we can move on to the next debate?

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).