Defibrillators

Caroline Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd September 2025 Westminster Hall

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Sam Rushworth) for securing this very important debate. I declare an interest: as an NHS consultant, I have used defibrillators on patients from elderly adults to very young babies—although, thankfully, their use on children is relatively uncommon.

Modern defibrillators are clever devices—they are capable of delivering varying joules of energy and of delivering synchronised shock, in line with the heartbeat, for cardioversion—but in their simplest, most common use, they deliver an electrical shock to the heart, essentially depolarising all the myocardial cells at the same time, allowing a reset moment, which hopefully allows the natural pacemaker to take over with a normal rhythm.

As we have heard this morning, that can be lifesaving. The survival rate for cardiac arrest is poor, and it is lower still for the 30,000 that happen outside hospital settings every year. According to Resuscitation Council UK, 9% of people who have an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest will survive to discharge from hospital, but research suggests that defibrillation within three to five minutes for those patients who need it can increase that figure to 50%. If we want to save lives, improving access to defibrillators is really important. I pay tribute to the community groups supporting and fundraising for their communities—both those mentioned today by various hon. Members, and the very many across my constituency and the wider UK that have not been mentioned.

I want to talk about the last Government’s work in this area. They instituted the community automated external defibrillators fund to allow town halls, parks and post offices to install defibs, and they matched it, based on an application form, to areas of rurality and increased need where there were less likely to be defibrillators. In 2023 the Conservative Government also supplied external defibrillator devices—more than 20,000 of them—to every state school across our country, making them much more available.

Many people, including my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull West and Shirley (Dr Shastri-Hurst), have talked today about the importance of education and making sure that people know how to do CPR. Others have talked about the success of CPR in individual cases. The previous Government added first aid and CPR to the national curriculum in 2020. Has the Minister been advocating for it to remain there, in the light of the current Government’s review of the national curriculum?

The hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Connor Naismith) talked about the catastrophe that can occur when a defibrillator that is supposed to work does not. The 999 call handlers will direct people to the nearest defibrillator that they are aware of, but there is no national Government register of defibrillators. The British Heart Foundation’s The Circuit network collects data, which is provided voluntarily, that it can then provide to 999 call handlers and others. As part of that, it issues reminders to ensure that maintenance is done and that people are checking that the equipment is still in good order. Is the Minister happy with the current processes? Is she aware how many times a year somebody goes to a defibrillator that is not working, and what is she doing to minimise that? Maintenance requires battery and pad changes because of expiry dates, and machines need to be kept clean and checked after use. Is the Minister satisfied with the feedback loop for that? What is she doing to improve it? Medical devices regulations ensure that adverse events are reported. Can she tell the House how many people experience such events and what she is doing to minimise those?

I also want to talk about managed obsolescence. I was talking recently to a resus officer for an NHS hospital in England, who told me that every single defibrillator in the trust, which covers several hospitals, is being replaced because the company that makes the defibrillators that are currently used has stopped making spare parts for them. That has required the trust to buy a raft of very expensive new equipment. What is the Minister doing to ensure that spare parts have to be kept available, and for what period will they have to be available?

I want to talk about the safety of women. We have talked about health inequalities in this debate, but women are 28% less likely to receive CPR in a public venue—a shocking statistic. Why is it the case? Partly it is because when someone is doing CPR and wants to move on to defibrillate, the defibrillator pads have to be put on to bare skin. That means removing the clothing from the patient. It means exposing the chest. It may mean touching the breasts, to move them slightly out of the way to place the pads. People are uncomfortable and concerned about that, in some cases. In fact, in some cases they are concerned about the legal issues they may face if they do it but perhaps get something medically wrong. We need to ensure that that is not the case, and that people are aware. The mannequins that we use do not have breasts; they are essentially male mannequins. We have child and baby mannequins, but female mannequins are not in widespread use. What is the Minister doing to ensure that the 51% of the population who are female have the same access to defibrillation, and to reassure the public so that they are well educated in how to provide defibrillation to female patients and know that they can do so without fear of litigation?

My hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Lewis Cocking) talked about Justin’s Hearts for Herts campaign. One change during my medical career was from ABC—airway, breathing and circulation—to catastrophic haemorrhage ABC in trauma cases. I am pleased to hear that, across my hon. Friend’s constituency, bleed packs are being made available. I want to thank the people from SHOCK Sleaford, North Kesteven district council and the Safer Lincolnshire Partnership, who have just completed fundraising and co-located four bleed packs across my local area. That means that people experiencing catastrophic haemorrhage, perhaps from a farming or vehicular accident, will be able to have their lives saved. Does the Minister have any plans to ensure that such bleed packs are located across the country, to improve the safety of people everywhere?

I was interested to hear what the hon. Member for Mid Dunbartonshire (Susan Murray) said about inhalers. There are arguments for provision of all sorts of things: inhalers and EpiPens come immediately to mind when thinking about how we can improve the safety of people across the country with access to things that can immediately save lives. Finally, as many hon. Members have mentioned in this debate, it is important to ensure that such devices are available without being taxed. Although I know that the Government like to tax, it seems counterproductive and counterintuitive to tax something that is potentially lifesaving, and that could even save the NHS money.