National Security Arrangements in Northern Ireland (Lord Carlile's Report)

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Thursday 6th March 2014 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

This is a summary of the main findings from the report by Lord Carlile, the independent reviewer of national security arrangements in Northern Ireland, over the period from 1 December 2012 to 31 December 2013.

“Once again I am grateful to Ministers for their close interest in the matters discussed here; several meetings with Ministers have occurred.

I have met several stakeholders for the purposes of this report. They have included the Secretary of State and other Ministers for the time being including the Minister of Justice in the Northern Ireland Executive, Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) and MI5 at senior levels, the relevant Commissioners dealing with National Security matters, the Northern Ireland Policing Board, the Police Ombudsman of Northern Ireland (PONI), and others. I have also engaged with HM Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) concerning activities relevant to this Report. I have made myself available to the Northern Ireland political parties if so required, an offer which was not taken up this year.

The liaison between Mr Ford and those responsible for national security issues is satisfactory.

The context in which national security activities are performed in Northern Ireland is changing and remains challenging. I have considered the current threat level, and what I have learned of events of a terrorist nature during the year. The level of terrorist activity appears broadly similar to the previous year. The overall picture is of a very dangerous, unpredictable terrorist threat, though one much smaller than in the days of PIRA terrorist activity.

There were 30 national security incidents during 2013, and several hoaxes. The authorities deserve the highest praise for the successful security operations surrounding the G8 Summit at Lough Erne on 17-18 June and the World Police and Fire Games on 1-10 August, both of which always had the potential to be a magnet for terrorism.

Ongoing investigations are at a high level. I was provided with information about such investigations, and of the considerable number of officers involved. Peace is in no small way the result of these efforts by PSNI and MI5 personnel.

Additional challenges continue to be posed by the many connections which terrorists appear to have with organised crime—not least because such crime helps fund their politically motivated activities. The opposition to drugs use by dissident republican groups is less than convincing. Their continued involvement in tobacco smuggling is clear.

As before, I asked specifically about loyalist terrorists. Basically these are people whose real interest is in making money from crime. Their groups have always suffered from fractiousness, and this has not changed. The authorities are well sighted against these organisations.

I have asked questions again this year about the relationship between MI5 and PSNI staff working alongside each other in security sensitive operations in Northern Ireland. That they work together well and in the national interest is beyond question. Generally they are well sighted together over potential terrorist operations, better than other similar arrangements I have observed elsewhere in the world. There is no evidence of the two services in any way undermining each other’s work—quite the opposite.

In concurrence with MI5 and national security work, the use of CHIS has been effective. I was very impressed by what I was told of the training and verification processes: they are methodical, detailed and subject to constant checking.

The PSNI and MI5 respectively have their own in-house legal advisers. The PSNI also has an in-house Human Rights legal adviser. In addition, relations with the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland are excellent and founded on trust and mutual respect, and as a result the services can go to the Public Prosecution Service for advice if they feel that it would be helpful.

I am satisfied that there is undoubtedly solid scrutiny of interception, in an environment in which communications technology is developing quickly.

I have asked about the availability and use of technology for counter-terrorism operations. The amount of technically based work is on the increase, and the public are protected by investment in top quality and up to date technology.

I met the Policing Board during 2013, and attempted to address their understandable concern that they cannot make full judgments of relevant issues involving policing and national security on the basis of incomplete information. The nature of national security and the Northern Ireland context necessitates these arrangements, but the Board can feel reassured that the Human Rights Advisor is able to carry out that role with greater confidence. A stronger and coherent narrative is provided, and continuing capable judgment exercised as to what can and cannot be shared with the Board.

I consider that continuing discussion between the operational authorities and the PONI will help to define further the legitimate scope of any enquiries he may have in mind into national security issues and policy.

In relation to prosecutions, the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland is pursuing a policy consistent with that in GB, of prosecuting where the evidence reaches the required standards applicable to prosecution decisions generally. The threat of terrorism justifies the continuation of the non-jury system. There is no evidence of any disadvantage in terms of outcome to Defendants in the current system of non-jury trials.

Prisons remain a problem area on two grounds. First, short-term prisoners can emerge from gaol as more determined and better informed terrorists. Secondly, prison officers are a relatively easy target for terrorist attack.

I have measured performance in 2013 against the five key principles identified in relation to national security in Annex E to the St Andrews Agreement of October 2006.

My conclusions in relation to Annex E are as follows:

On-the-Runs Scheme

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Friday 28th February 2014 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

On Tuesday 25 February I laid before the House a statement relating to the High Court judgment in the case of John Downey. I would now like to update the House on the administrative scheme set up by the previous Government to deal with so-called “on-the-runs” (OTRs).

On coming to office in May 2010 the Government were made aware of a list of names submitted by Sinn Fein to the previous Government under an agreement they had reached to clarify the status of OTRs.

These were people living outside the United Kingdom who believed that if they returned they would be wanted by the police for questioning in connection with terrorist offences committed before the Belfast agreement.

Under the scheme the police, and in some cases the Public Prosecution Service, checked whether sufficient evidence existed in each case at that time for these individuals to be questioned, arrested or prosecuted if they returned to Northern Ireland or any other part of the United Kingdom.

If it was found that they were not wanted by the police and that there was no prospect of any prosecution based on the evidence then available, the individuals were informed of that fact by letter from a Northern Ireland Office official.

The letters did not amount to immunity, exemption or amnesty from arrest. The letters made this clear. That remains the case. No recipient of such a letter should be in any doubt that if evidence emerges after the date the letter was issued in connection with terrorist offences committed before the Belfast agreement they will be liable for arrest and prosecution.

It was on this basis that the current Government in May 2010 agreed that the list of names submitted by Sinn Fein to the previous Administration could continue to be checked.

If at any time we had been presented with a scheme that amounted to immunity, exemption or amnesty, we would have stopped that scheme—consistent with the opposition of both coalition parties to the previous Government’s Northern Ireland (Offences) Bill in 2005.

We believe in the application of the rule of law and due process, regardless of whether a person is in possession of a letter or would be eligible for early release under the terms of the Belfast agreement.

We will take whatever steps are necessary to make clear to all recipients of letters arising from the administrative scheme, in a manner that will satisfy the courts and the public, that any letters issued cannot be relied upon to avoid questioning or prosecution for offences where information or evidence becomes available now or later.

In the light of the error identified in the case of John Downey, the Prime Minister announced on Thursday 27 February that he would appoint a judge to provide an independent review of the administrative scheme.

The aim of the review will be to produce a full public account of the operation and extent of the administrative scheme for OTRs; to determine whether any letters sent through the scheme contained errors; and to make recommendations as necessary on this or related matters that are drawn to the attention of the inquiry.

The person conducting the review will have full access to all Government papers about the operation of the scheme. They will be free to interview key individuals in the civil service and the police and any others where those individuals are willing.

The report should be provided to me by the end of May 2014 for the purpose of its full publication.

Oral Answers to Questions

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab)]

4. What steps she is taking to engage with local political leaders on reaching agreement to enable the National Crime Agency to operate in Northern Ireland.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

It is important for the security of people in Northern Ireland that the NCA should be fully operational there. I continue to raise this issue with the Northern Ireland parties, the Justice Minister and the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

[Ann McKechin]

I thank the Secretary of State for her reply, but she will be aware of the concerns about the issue of human trafficking, which is a problem across the United Kingdom, including trafficking from Northern Ireland into Scotland. Can she confirm that despite the fact that the National Crime Agency is not yet operating in Northern Ireland, the PSNI does have the full resources to enable it to tackle this heinous crime?

[Mrs Villiers]

I fully share the hon. Lady’s sentiments about the horrific nature of the crime of human trafficking. Because it raises immigration questions, the NCA does have power to act in this area within Northern Ireland, so I can give her the assurance that it is providing the PSNI with all the support that is required on those matters. It is on crimes within the devolved sphere that the NCA’s capacity is currently restricted.

[Mr McKenzie]

At the moment, the NCA cannot carry out police operations in Northern Ireland, and last year the Police Service of Northern Ireland had to draft in officers from around the UK. Will the Secretary of State confirm her intention to see a fully staffed Police Service of Northern Ireland above the minimum number identified by the Chief Constable, before the marching season and before other commemoration parades take place?

[Mrs Villiers]

The Government have provided significant extra funding for the PSNI—£200 million in the current spending review and £30 million in 2015-16. I continue to support and encourage the discussions between the Department of Finance and Personnel, the Department of Justice and the PSNI on the Executive’s contribution to police funding. It is also important that the NCA provide as much support as it can to the PSNI, within the constraints it is under because of the lack of a legislative consent motion.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State assure the House that she will not entertain any ideas of amnesties for terrorists, unlike the last Labour Government?

[Mrs Villiers]

This Government do not support amnesties for terrorists, and we oppose the legislation put forward by the previous Government which would have amounted to an effective amnesty.

[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

On the prevention and detection of crime, does my right hon. Friend share the shock of many of us that the Executive seem to have interfered in the Downey case and others and in the actions of the police and the prosecution? Will she assure me that it will not be the policy of this Government to blur the lines between the Executive and the judicial process in an unacceptable way?

[Mr Speaker]

Quite an ingenious effort, but I would remind the Secretary of State that the question is about the National Crime Agency.

[Mrs Villiers]

I can assure my hon. Friend that the Government recognise fully the importance of ensuring that prosecution decisions are made independently of the Executive.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

Clearly, the failure to operate the National Crime Agency as a result of republican blocking of that is a disgrace and it is undermining policing and justice. But equally, the Downey decision has undermined confidence in policing and justice. Will the Secretary of State now publish the numbers of letters that have been sent to these people—the names, the contents of these letters; and would she now rescind this disgraceful and shameful back-door scheme?

[Mrs Villiers]

I fully understand the right hon. Gentleman’s concerns, and it was clearly a very difficult day for the families yesterday. As I published in my written ministerial statement, we believe that around 200 cases were processed through this scheme. The individuals were sent factual letters indicating whether or not they were wanted for terrorism offences. It was not an amnesty and it was never intended to be such. There was always the recognition that if further evidence of further offences was produced, a prosecution was then a possibility. The reason for the outcome of the Downey case was that unfortunately a grave mistake was made, when Mr Downey was sent a letter saying he was not wanted for offences when in fact he was.

[Mr Dodds]

The grief, the words of devastation from the families of the soldiers concerned in the Hyde park bombing are an indictment of what is going on. There is outrage, not just in Northern Ireland but right across the country, about this—how an official’s letter can trump due process of law in this country. Will the Secretary of State realise how serious this is, not just for the process of law and order, but for the very stability and continued existence of devolution in Northern Ireland, where the Assembly has full responsibility for policing and justice, but these facts were withheld from the Justice Minister and the First Minister? This has very, very serious implications for devolution.

[Mrs Villiers]

I am very much aware of the very serious implications this case has, and they have also been conveyed to me by the First Minister, whom I look forward to meeting this evening to discuss this matter with.

As I announced yesterday, the Northern Ireland Office, along with the PSNI, is undertaking an urgent check of all letters that were issued under the scheme to establish whether any further mistakes were made that could lead to the same outcome that was witnessed in relation to the Downey case. It is also vital that we get to the bottom of why such a very serious mistake was made within the PSNI and why the PSNI did not draw it to the attention of the Northern Ireland Office, and of course I will be discussing this matter with David Ford and the First Minister.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

2. What assessment she has made of the effects of the reduction in public sector jobs in Northern Ireland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

10. What steps she is taking to ensure a positive outcome from the Haass talks; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

The UK Government continue to support and encourage party leaders in Northern Ireland as they pursue the Haass issues. A cross-party agreement on flags, parading and the past would deliver significant benefits for Northern Ireland.

[Pat Glass]

Next month, the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach meet for their second annual review of progress on the joint agreement. Does the Secretary of State agree that that offers an opportunity for both leaders to send out a strong message to all the parties in Northern Ireland about their commitment to securing agreement and advances on all the issues covered by Haass and papers, including the past?

[Mrs Villiers]

Both the Irish and the UK Governments are strongly supportive of the efforts made by the Northern Ireland parties to reach agreement on those three matters, including the past. I cannot anticipate exactly what will be in the communiqué, but I am sure that the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach will continue to express their support for the process, and the Tanaiste, Eamon Gilmore, continues to be in close touch with me on these matters.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

Does the Secretary of State agree with Amnesty International that any mechanism for dealing with the past has to be fully human rights compliant, not a patchwork? What legislation and resources does she think will be required to achieve that?

[Mrs Villiers]

Of course, any new structures would have to be compliant with the UK’s obligations under the Human Rights Act. As for resources, as I have said on a number of occasions, the UK Government would primarily expect the block grant given to the Northern Ireland Executive to be the source of funding for new arrangements on the past. If there is a proposal for additional funding, that would be considered seriously.

[Mr Bain]

Does the Secretary of State agree that if Northern Ireland is to have a prosperous future, it needs to reach full accommodation with the events of its past? What steps will she personally take to ensure that the progress that was made in the Haass agreement is carried forward into full agreement in future?

[Mrs Villiers]

I continue to urge the parties to seek a way forward and to set out the benefits that an agreement on flags, parading and the past would bring to Northern Ireland. I continue to engage closely with the Irish Government on these matters, and I shall continue to do all those things.

[Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Ind)]

What impact does the Secretary of State believe the Downey decision will have on the Haass talks?

[Mrs Villiers]

As the House has already heard, the Downey case raises very serious issues. It is absolutely right that we all reflect on the consequences of that decision, and that there is a thorough investigation into the grave mistake by the PSNI which, I am afraid, led to the outcome in the case yesterday.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

It has been suggested that a culture of trust needs to be developed. Will my right hon. Friend consider looking again at what are effectively the amnesties that were handed out? We need to look at that if Northern Ireland is to prosper in future.

[Mrs Villiers]

The scheme was created by the previous Government and, to be fair to them, it was never an amnesty, as I have explained to the House. These letters set out in a factual way whether individuals were believed to be wanted by the police in Northern Ireland or elsewhere in the UK. The current Government looked at the scheme in 2012 and decided that future inquiries should be sent to the devolved Administration in line with the devolution of policing and justice.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend report on whether there have been any proposals for a timetable to be put in place so that we can progress the Haass talks and reach a conclusion that will be satisfactory for all parties?

[Mrs Villiers]

There has been much discussion of deadlines and timetables. I certainly think that it would be very helpful if the parties felt able to put together a road map towards reaching a full agreement, but I fully appreciate how difficult these issues are. As we have heard this morning, they have probably been made more difficult to resolve by the events of the last 24 hours.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

On the past and the Downey case, I agree with the Secretary of State that there was never any question of an amnesty. May I also say that I make no apology for being part of a process that brought Northern Ireland from the hideous horror and evil of the past to the position where old enemies have now governed together for seven years in a stable, devolved Government—no apology for that at all? Just as we had to do deals with my Democratic Unionist party friends sitting over there to get to this point, so we have had to do deals with Sinn Fein to get to this point, and that was necessary for the negotiations to succeed and for peace to be established.

[Mrs Villiers]

Clearly, many difficult decisions were made as a result of the peace process. Some aspects of the Good Friday agreement were hard to swallow for many in the House, but I think that it is important that we reflect on the implications of the John Downey case and how a very serious mistake came to be made. Of course, as I have said to the House, we are urgently checking to ensure that similar mistakes were not made in any other cases.

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

It is rather disgraceful that any former Secretary of State could compare the DUP to terrorists. Has not the Downey revelation in reality made the Haass talks a farce and destroyed any process Haass has ever started? Does it not erode confidence among the general law-abiding community, and is this not indeed a dark day for justice as far as the United Kingdom is concerned?

[Mrs Villiers]

My primary thoughts are with the families of those who died on that terrible day in July 1982. This whole episode must have provoked very painful memories. I am sure that it is a source of sadness and regret for them, as it is for us, that no one has been brought to justice for the Hyde park bombing. Despite the long shadow that this case is likely to cast, I hope that the Northern Ireland parties will continue to work together to see whether a solution can be found to deal with the legacy of the past in Northern Ireland.

[Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab)]

Can the Secretary of State convince the House that there is still momentum left in the talks started by Ambassador Haass?

[Mrs Villiers]

As I have said, these are hugely important matters. It would be of great benefit to Northern Ireland if an agreed way forward could be found. Some very important work has been going on in recent weeks between the party leaders, with real dedication to try to find a way forward. There is no doubt that finding a way forward will now be more difficult, given the events of the past 24 hours, but I continue to encourage the parties to do so.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that a key reason why we must deal with the past is the need to assure people that we did not end the dirty war just to end up with a dirty peace? Is that not even more imperative after yesterday’s revelations, which prove that some of us were right when we warned the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) and others that they were blighting the peace process with their penchant for side deals, pseudo-deals, sub-deals, shabby deals and secret deals, which are now doing fundamental damage to the Haass process and to the process more widely?

[Mrs Villiers]

I know that the hon. Gentleman was one of the foremost opponents of Labour’s proposed legislation on an amnesty, which was also opposed by both coalition parties. I cannot agree with him on his characterisation of Northern Ireland’s troubles as a dirty war. I believe that the vast majority of members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the military served with great integrity, distinction, courage and bravery, and we owe them all a huge debt of gratitude for creating the conditions in which peace was eventually found.

[Mr Ivan Lewis (Bury South) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the issues raised by the judgment in the John Downey case underline the importance of the Government supporting the all-party talks to reach an agreement that puts truth and justice for victims at the heart of dealing with the past? Can she confirm that the current Government have sent out a number of letters to on-the-runs as part of the scheme covered by the Downey case? Today it is important that above all else we remember the soldiers who lost their lives in Hyde park on that dreadful day in July 1982 and the suffering that their families continue to endure. That act was heinous and, like all terrorist atrocities, totally unjustifiable. The PSNI is right to apologise to the families of the victims and commit to an investigation into how such a horrendous error could have occurred.

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree that a way forward on the past must put victims at its heart. I can give the hon. Gentleman an assurance that I remain very supportive of efforts through the Haass process to find a way forward. I can confirm that 38 cases were dealt with by the current Government under the OTR administrative scheme. That was reviewed by the current Government, who decided that it was better for any future cases to be referred to the devolved authorities, in line with the devolution of policing and justice, but we did process a number of cases supplied prior to the general election. I also believe that it is absolutely vital that the PSNI investigates thoroughly why things went so badly wrong in relation to this case and that all of us in this House convey our deep and grave sympathy to the victims of the terrible atrocity that took place in Hyde park.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. First, there are far too many noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. Secondly, I very politely ask the Secretary of State please to speak up a little. Mr Lewis, I am sure that the second question will be much shorter than the first.

[Mr Lewis]

At a time when the Haass talks are seeking to focus on truth and justice for victims and their families, will the Secretary of State give a commitment today that the Government will stop buck-passing between Departments and prevent the Survivors for Peace programme going to the wall? At the invitation of Labour’s excellent parliamentary candidate in Warrington, Nick Bent, I had the privilege of visiting the Warrington peace centre last week. The Tim Parry Johnathan Ball Foundation for Peace, under the inspirational leadership of Colin and Wendy Parry, does a tremendous job and deserves support from this Government.

[Mrs Villiers]

I, too, have had the pleasure of visiting the peace centre; Colin Parry has done a wonderful job there. I am keen to work with my excellent hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) to see whether we can find a way forward on the victims’ support charity. I assure the House that the future of the peace centre is secure; I understand that it is separate from the victims’ support charity. However, I fully appreciate the importance of seeking to find a way forward to resolve the difficulties that Colin Parry’s charity faces.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

5. What recent discussions she has had with the family and representatives of Pat Finucane.

High Court Judgment

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

On 21 February, Mr Justice Sweeney ruled that an abuse of process had taken place in the prosecution of John Downey for offences relating to the Hyde Park bombing which took place on 20 July 1982. Mr Downey was part of an administrative scheme set up by the previous Government to deal with so-called “on-the-runs”, that is, people who believed they might face questioning or arrest in connection with terrorist or other criminal offences committed prior to the 1998 political agreement if they returned to the United Kingdom.

When he was arrested on 19 May 2013, Mr Downey was in possession of a letter from a senior official in the Northern Ireland Office dated July 2007 that read as follows:

“The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has been informed by the Attorney General that on the basis of the information currently available, there is no outstanding direction for prosecution in Northern Ireland, there are no warrants in existence nor are you wanted in Northern Ireland for arrest, questioning or charge by the police. The Police Service of Northern Ireland are not aware of any interest in you from any other police force in the United Kingdom. If any other outstanding offence or offences came to light, or if any request for extradition were to be received, these would have to be dealt with in the usual way.”

It has subsequently become clear that this letter contained an error. Mr Downey was in fact sought for arrest by the Metropolitan Police at that time for charges relating to the Hyde Park bombing, in which four soldiers of the Blues and Royals carrying out ceremonial duties were murdered and seven horses were killed.

Tragically, later that same day another bomb at Regent’s Park resulted in the murder of seven members of the Royal Green Jackets. The Government remain clear that these were terrible terrorist atrocities that had absolutely no justification.

The judge concluded that the error had been made by officers of the PSNI. The Northern Ireland Office had sought confirmation before sending the letter that the appropriate checks had been made. It was assured by the PSNI that they had been. As has been made clear by the legal proceedings relating to Mr Downey, an administrative scheme to deal with so-called “on the runs” was in operation from around September 2000. It was devised by the previous Government. The details were not fully set out to Parliament, though the scheme was referred to in July 2002 in the answer to a parliamentary question given by the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, John Reid.

Following the failure of the Northern Ireland (Offences) Bill in 2005-06, the administrative scheme became the only mechanism for dealing with OTRs. Under the scheme inquiries from individuals wishing to establish if they were wanted for arrest over suspected terrorist activities were communicated, by Sinn Fein, through the Northern Ireland Office, to the Attorney-General, who then referred them to the prosecuting authorities and the police. The Government communicated back the response to Sinn Fein via a letter from the Northern Ireland Office.

On the information available to the police and prosecuting authorities at the time, individuals who were not sought for arrest were informed of this. They were also advised that should new information or evidence of wrongdoing come to light at any point in the future, then they would be subjected to normal criminal proceedings. There was, therefore, no immunity from possible future arrest.

The current Government looked again at the scheme and decided that any future requests should be referred to the devolved authorities in Northern Ireland, in line with the devolution of policing and justice. The Northern Ireland Office subsequently dealt only with pending cases for which requests had been received prior to the general election.

Our records indicate that around 200 individuals were subject to the scheme. Of those, approximately three quarters were informed by letter delivered through a Sinn Fein representative, that at the time they received the letter, they were not sought for arrest, questioning or charge by police; but that if any new information came to light that this was subject to change.

This procedure clarified the positions of these individuals who were otherwise unsure whether they remained wanted for arrest. In the light of the recent court judgment, my Department is working with the police and prosecuting authorities to check whether anyone sent a similar letter is wanted for an offence committed before the date of the letter. As policing and justice have been devolved issues in Northern Ireland since 2010, any further requests for the scheme, or clarifications on whether particular individuals remain wanted for arrest, should be directed to the PSNI and devolved prosecuting authorities.

The Government are looking carefully at the judgment of the court. It is right that time is taken to consider its full implications. The PSNI will wish to reflect on lessons learned from this case and the circumstances that led to the serious error which has occurred.

As has been stated on a number of occasions, this Government do not support an amnesty for people wanted by the police in connection with terrorist offences. We believe in upholding the rule of law. That is why both the coalition parties strongly opposed the legislation introduced by the Labour Government in 2005 which would have introduced what was effectively an amnesty for so-called “on-the-runs”.

Supplementary Estimate 2013-14

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2014 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

Subject to parliamentary approval of any supplementary estimate, the Northern Ireland Executive departmental expenditure limit (DEL), net of depreciation, is increased by £186,539,000 from £10,630,679,000 to £10,817,218,000.

Within the total DEL change, the impact on resources and capital is set out in the following table:

Northern Ireland Security Situation

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

This is the fifth bi-annual update to the House on the security situation in Northern Ireland and my third such statement as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.

Overall situation

The latter half of 2013 saw persistent planning and targeting by terrorists, evidenced by a significant number of attacks with lethal intent taking place in the weeks before Christmas. Many more such attempts have been disrupted. Overall, the number of national security attacks remains broadly comparable with previous years. The threat continues to be tackled and suppressed and there have been some significant successes by the security forces which should bring both immediate and longer-term benefits.

While we must remain vigilant about the threat from terrorism in Northern Ireland we must not allow it to overshadow the many positives to emerge from 2013, not least the successful hosting of both the G8 summit and the world police and fire games. That such high profile events passed without any significant security incidents taking place is a major achievement. High levels of cross-border police co-operation continue to be a crucial part of efforts to combat terrorism and keep people in Northern Ireland safe. Working relationships between PSNI and An Garda Siochana are excellent. At a meeting in December between Commissioner Martin Callinan and Chief Constable Matt Baggott, along with Justice Ministers Alan Shatter and David Ford, it was agreed that consideration would be given to whether there are ways in which co-operation between the two police services could be further strengthened and updated.

Security situation in Northern Ireland

The threat level in Northern Ireland and Great Britain has remained unchanged since my last statement to Parliament in July 2013. All threat levels, of course, are kept under constant review.

There were 30 national security attacks in Northern Ireland during 2013, over half of which took place between October and December. Had it not been for the tremendous efforts of the PSNI and their security partners in disrupting and preventing further attacks, this figure would undoubtedly have been higher. I thank the PSNI, MIS and An Garda Siochana (AGS), for their relentless and effective pursuit of the very small, but violent, minority who favour terrorism over democracy. I also wish to pay tribute to army technical officers whose expertise and courage has undoubtedly prevented injury in recent months.

As in previous years, attacks have varied in their level of sophistication. Police officers and military personnel have continued to be primary targets for dissident groups. PSNI officers in particular have faced relentless targeting in the last six months. In addition to pipe bombs attacks against police patrols and devices sent by post to senior officers, in December PSNI officers narrowly avoided injury after their vehicles were fired upon in north Belfast. Three men were subsequently arrested and charged in connection with this incident.

There have also been a number of significant attacks on commercial targets. In November, a taxi was hijacked in the Ardoyne area of North Belfast and its driver forced to drive to Belfast city centre with an IED on board. The device later partially exploded close to the Victoria square shopping centre. Had it functioned fully, it would have caused significant damage and injury.

Only weeks later an IED was placed in Belfast’s cathedral quarter, an area popular for its bars and restaurants and busy with those celebrating the festive season. Although only a small device, an erroneous warning about its location meant that it exploded before the police could fully clear the area. Fortunately, due to the vigilance of the public and the prompt response of the PSNI, there were no injuries.

These indiscriminate and reckless attempts to intimidate and to damage Belfast’s thriving retail and entertainment sectors highlighted a complete disregard of terrorist groups for the people and businesses at the forefront of Northern Ireland’s economic recovery. The attacks were not, however, successful and the resilience displayed by both individuals and businesses in the face of this disruption stood in stark contrast to the cowardice of those responsible for the attacks.

In September, a viable explosive device which could have killed or caused serious injury was discovered close to a special school in Lurgan. In October, postal workers and public officials were exposed to potential injury after letter bombs were sent to senior police officers and public figures. These were intercepted before they could cause injury but, once again, these acts demonstrate a blatant disregard for the safety of people working in the community.

Security alerts, hoaxes and so called “come-on” attacks also caused disruption to many in the second half of 2013, including through road and rail closures and evacuations. For the individuals, families, communities, commuters and businesses affected, this is frustrating and hugely inconvenient.

Successes and disruptions

The PSNI and MIS continue to devote all the resources required to tackle the threat and bring those responsible for these attacks to justice. Since my last statement, there have been a number of significant disruptions, arrests and convictions as well as seizures of arms and IED components.

In December, following a PSNI/MI5 operation, three individuals were charged with a number of serious terrorist offences: conspiracy to murder members of the security forces, conspiracy to possess explosives with intent to endanger life and membership of the IRA. Two of the three individuals were further charged with aiding and abetting the attempted murder of police officers on 5 December 2013 and with aiding and abetting the possession of firearms on the same date.

An operation in Forkhill, south Armagh, conducted jointly by PSNI and An Garda Siochana on 18 December led to a significant discovery of home-made explosives and equipment for bomb making and highlighted the importance and value of joint working with colleagues in the Republic of Ireland. I congratulate the PSNI and AGS on their successes and look forward to further such co-operation.

A number of dissidents have also been found guilty of offences related to terrorist activity. In January, Gavin Coyle was sentenced to a total of 10 years after admitting having guns and explosives with intent to endanger life and being a member of a dissident republican organisation. It followed the discovery in 2011 of the arms and explosives which included assault rifles and Semtex. The operation undoubtedly saved lives and now those involved are being held to account through the justice system. In a separate case, four other men caught with guns and ammunition in Omagh were sentenced to a total of 36 years.

Dissident republican paramilitary groups

The so-called “new IRA” has continued to pose a significant threat over the last six months and has repeatedly demonstrated its lethal intent. In the north-west, the group has been responsible for a number of low-level attacks as well as an attempted mortar attack on a PSNI station. In Belfast it has claimed responsibility for the murder of Kevin Kearney, and conducted a shooting attack against police. However, the actions of this group have been severely hampered by the security forces. Arrests, searches, and seizures of terrorist materiel both north and south of the border have slowed the group’s development and prevented many more attacks. Security force successes have constrained the threat posed by this group.

Oglaigh na hEireann (ONH) was particularly active in the latter half of 2013, demonstrating both its recklessness and its lethal intent with IED attacks against commercial premises in Belfast, and shooting attacks and IEDs against PSNI officers. The group has claimed responsibility for three particularly significant attacks: a vehicle-borne IED which partially functioned close to Victoria square shopping centre; a small IED which functioned in the cathedral quarter on a busy Friday evening; and an under vehicle IED found under a former police officer’s car by the officer and his daughter. Terrorists in Northern Ireland persist in their belief that warning calls somehow absolve them of responsibility for their indiscriminate and dangerous actions. This is not the case and these attacks, with their inadequate and inaccurate warnings, brought us dangerously close to yet another tragic loss of life.

Over the last year, CIRA has continued to splinter into competing factions. Several of these pose a localised threat to security forces, though many are more focused primarily on criminality than terrorism. One particular group in Belfast has caused extensive disruption with a number of hoaxes and pipe bombs. These frustrate the local population, damage local businesses and disrupt lives.

These groups continue to engage in a range of criminal activity including fuel laundering, smuggling, drug dealing, robbery and extortion.

Loyalist paramilitary groups

There remain individuals associated with loyalist paramilitary organisations who continue to be involved in a range of criminal activity, including paramilitary assaults, organised crime such as drug dealing, and intimidation. Continued tensions within and between the two main loyalist paramilitary groups (UVF and UDA) also remain a cause for concern. During 2013 we have witnessed loyalist-related public disorder including protests and security incidents that have taken place outside the offices of democratically elected representatives. There have also been attempts by paramilitaries to gain greater influence and control within loyalist communities.

Overall levels of criminality and violence within loyalist communities have not changed significantly in recent years. But violence and intimidation continue to be a concern and will not be tolerated. Regardless of the label applied to these individuals—terrorist, paramilitary or criminal—and whatever their motivation, every effort will be made to bring these people to justice.

Significant resources are being deployed to tackle violence and criminality in loyalist communities. The PSNI has been actively pursuing illegal activity across all communities with a number of recent successes, particularly in east Belfast. Police officers will continue to build an evidence base against suspects.

Although some individuals who are involved in serious criminality have connections to loyalist paramilitary organisations we continue to assess that the collective leaderships of the UDA and UVF remain committed to the peace process and reform of their organisations. This situation is kept under regular review and is discussed regularly between NIO, PSNI and DoJ.

Paramilitary style shootings and attacks

We have witnessed a number of particularly brutal paramilitary style attacks in the last six months. In October, the so-called “new IRA” claimed to have shot and murdered Kevin Kearney in Belfast. In September, individuals believed to be linked to the east Belfast UVF shot Jemma McGrath, causing serious injury. A number of foreign nationals have also been subjected to a series of racist, paramilitary style attacks.

These crimes and others like them which have caused fear and, in some cases, devastating injuries are shocking acts. Those who perpetrate these crimes will be held to account by the police and the criminal justice system. We are actively supporting the PSNI as it seeks to tackle those involved in criminality within local communities.

PSNI resources and funding

The security situation and ongoing public disorder relating to flags and parades have placed a heavy burden on the PSNI in recent months. Over the summer period and faced with significant and sustained public order challenges, the short-term deployment of police officers from forces in Great Britain under mutual aid arrangements proved very successful. As we move forward in 2014, the PSNI is working closely with its partners in the Department of Justice and the Northern Ireland Policing Board to guarantee longer-term PSNI resource resilience.

This Government continue to offer their full support to the PSNI to ensure that it has the capability it needs to tackle the terrorist threat. The PSNI is now three years into a four-year funding package provided by this Government in 2011. This will ensure that the PSNI is in receipt of £199.5 million for the period up to 2015 to tackle the threat faced from terrorism in Northern Ireland. A further £31 million in security funding will be provided in 2015-16. This money is helping to tackle the threat and ensure that PSNI has the resources it needs to protect the people of Northern Ireland.

Conclusion

This has been a difficult six months from a security perspective, coming as it did after a sustained period of public disorder relating to flags and parades. However, as a result of the concerted and sustained efforts of the security forces, we have also seen some significant arrests, seizures, convictions and disruptions. We continue to contain the threat from terrorism and remain fully committed to driving it down in the future, keeping the people of Northern Ireland safe and secure. There will be no let up in the pressure we apply to terrorists who reject democracy and who offer nothing but violence.

Looking ahead to the rest of 2014, I am committed to working with the security forces and colleagues in the devolved authorities and in the Republic of Ireland as we seek to build on the achievements of 2013. The success of the G8 summit held in Fermanagh in June, followed by Derry/Londonderry’s enthusiastic embrace of its city of culture status and the highly successful hosting of the world police and fire games showcased Northern Ireland at its very best—prepared, resilient, highly capable and determined.

Oral Answers to Questions

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab)]

4. What steps she is taking to address the rising cost of living in Northern Ireland.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

The actions the Government are taking to help with the cost of living include freezing fuel duty, cutting income tax bills, delivering the biggest ever single cash increase in the state pension and helping to keep interest rates low by dealing with the deficit.

[Ann McKechin]

The Secretary of State may be aware that last year the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action confirmed that Belfast, with an expected loss of £840 per adult of working age, will be hit harder than any other major city in Britain. Will she advise the House on what specific steps she is taking to address the cost of living, given the depth and scale of the problem in Northern Ireland?

[Mrs Villiers]

As I have said, the Government take this issue very seriously. That is why fuel duty today is 20 pence per litre lower than it would have been if we had stuck with the previous Government’s plans; that is why we have cut income tax for about 618,000 people in Northern Ireland and taken 75,000 out of income tax altogether; and that is why people on the minimum wage will see their income tax bills halved by April.

[John Robertson]

I wonder whether the Secretary of State can tell us what her assessment is of the Advice NI social policy report, which confirms that over 11 food banks have opened in Northern Ireland since 2012. Is she happy with that? If not, what does she plan to do about it?

[Mrs Villiers]

Of course it is a matter of regret that anyone feels the need to go to a food bank, but the Government are doing everything they can to support people on low incomes with the cost of living. I hope the Opposition will welcome the fact that inflation fell to 2% yesterday. We will continue to give people support, in particular with our triple lock on pensions that delivered the biggest ever single cash increase in the state pension, and we will continue to deal with the deficit. The real threat to the cost of living would be a Labour Government, who would put up taxes and see interest rates increased.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

12. Does the Secretary of State agree that the real way to deal with cost of living issues is to pursue economic growth with a long-term strategy to rebalance the economy, and that that applies to Northern Ireland, particularly in engineering and manufacturing?

[Mrs Villiers]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The only way to achieve a sustainable increase in living standards is to run the economy efficiently and effectively, and to have a credible plan to deal with the deficit. That is the way we can keep interest rates low and deal with inflation, and that is the way we can make this country a wealthier place.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Some disreputable people try to reduce the cost of living by smuggling fuel across the border with the Republic of Ireland. What steps are being taken to combat this menace?

[Mrs Villiers]

There is very effective cross-border working. There is also very effective working between the Northern Ireland Executive and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. We take this matter very seriously. My hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary has been looking with care at the different proposals for new marker technology. I expect progress on that to be announced very soon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

One in three people, in response to Shelter Northern Ireland questionnaires, stated that this year they will struggle to pay their rent or mortgage payments and that child care costs take up a large part of their budget. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Department for Work and Pensions to raise the child care element for full-time working families?

[Mrs Villiers]

The introduction of universal credit in Northern Ireland will make about 102,000 people better off, according to Social Development Minister Nelson McCausland, who also commented that that would lift 10,000 children out of poverty. Our welfare reforms are designed to incentivise work. Getting people into work is the best way to deal with poverty and we will continue to push forward with welfare reform.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

2. What recent assessment she has made of the security situation in Northern Ireland; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

The threat level in Northern Ireland remains severe, with persistent planning and targeting by terrorists, as illustrated by the attacks that took place before Christmas. However, action by the Police Service of Northern Ireland and its partners continues to keep those groups under pressure.

[Oliver Colvile]

Before Christmas, the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs went to Belfast and met the Parades Commission. We learnt about the budgetary challenges facing the PSNI. Will my right hon. Friend review giving the Northern Ireland Executive the same powers as all other parts of the UK to levy a policing precept?

[Mrs Villiers]

The future resourcing of the PSNI is certainly a matter of concern to many in this House. It is within the powers of the Department of Justice to introduce precepting, if it chose to do so. That does not require legislation or further devolution from this House; it is a matter for the Department to decide. Very constructive discussions are under way between the Department of Finance and Personnel, the Department of Justice and the PSNI, with a view to resolving the resourcing question, in particular with regard to the comprehensive spending review year 2015-16.

[Pamela Nash]

With the public rightly concerned after the stalemate reached in the Haass talks and the severe security threats faced by Christmas shoppers in Belfast, to which the Secretary of State referred, as well as the huge costs of £55,000 a day of policing contentious parades in Northern Ireland, will she tell us whether 2014 is really the right time to be cutting the funds to the PSNI, or are the Government going to reconsider that decision?

[Mrs Villiers]

The PSNI is actually receiving additional funds from the Government—£200 million over the current spending review period and about £30 million in 2015-16—and as I have said, discussions continue between the PSNI and the Northern Ireland Executive over whether further funding can be added from the Executive in 2015-16.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

Patten recommended that in a peaceful situation, the PSNI should have a minimum of 7,500 officers. Given that Northern Ireland is not exactly in that peaceful situation, owing to paramilitary activity, is the Secretary of State concerned about the PSNI’s ability to recruit sufficient officers?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am grateful to the Chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee for his question and his important work on this issue. The current number of officers in the PSNI is 6,795. The Chief Constable recently told the Policing Board that the minimum number he needed to perform effectively was 6,963. It is important that consideration be given to how the shortfall can be dealt with, and as I have said, I remain optimistic about the ongoing discussions between the Department of Finance and Personnel and the Department of Justice about resolving that budgetary shortfall.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

If I may, Mr Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to Paul Goggins, not only a good friend of mine but a brilliant security Minister who served under me in Northern Ireland. His funeral is tomorrow.

How can the Secretary of State justify her answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela Nash), given that the additional security budget, which the PSNI is entitled to apply for, has been halved this year compared with the past three years—and this at a time of rising dissident threats, as we saw in Belfast city centre before Christmas?

[Mrs Villiers]

It is just not true that it has been halved. The Government take very seriously their security responsibilities in Northern Ireland, which is why we have provided additional funds for the PSNI to deal with the deteriorating security situation we inherited from the previous Government. We will continue to be vigilant. In particular, we will continue to work closely with Irish counterparts on deepening and strengthening the cross-border co-operation that is crucial to keeping Northern Ireland safe and secure.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

On policing and security and in the context of the recent Haass talks on the past, especially past terrorist crimes, will the Secretary of State take it from me that Martin McGuinness’s comments last night about extremism are seen by many on both sides of the community as not only untrue but a transparent attempt to distract from Sinn Fein’s abject lack of leadership in addressing its continued glorification of past terrorist crimes, as witnessed in Castlederg this summer, which is causing huge damage to community relations? Will she urge Sinn Fein to stop wallowing in the filth of murder?

[Mrs Villiers]

I encourage all party leaders to continue working on the Haass issues. Perhaps the more important thing to draw from last night’s meeting of party leaders was the welcome news that they would reassemble next week and that these discussions would continue. There is an important opportunity here still to be seized by the political parties to make real progress on these divisive issues by resolving their differences and reaching agreement.

[Mr Dodds]

I, too, want to see those talks take place, and we hope that all parties, including Sinn Fein, will come to the table and negotiate in good faith, but will the Secretary of State recognise that severe damage has been done to policing, and to the capacity of the policing and justice system to tackle the security situation, by decisions such as the one recently to issue one of those most involved in glorifying past terrorist crimes—Gerry Kelly—with an informed warning, rather than to prosecute him, even though the threshold for prosecution was reached, for obstructing the police during a very tense parades situation? Does she not see the damage that this sort of situation is creating?

[Mrs Villiers]

I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s point. I would urge all elected representatives to do all they can to support police officers in the execution of their duties which, in Northern Ireland, can sometimes be extremely difficult and highly sensitive.

[Mr Ivan Lewis (Bury South) (Lab)]

As other hon. Members have said, Northern Ireland faces a number of security challenges at the start of this new year: the terrorist threat from dissident republicans and the potential threat to law and order posed by the downgrading of the Parades Commission. In the light of those risks, will the Secretary of State assure us—and give a specific answer—that the PSNI has an adequate number of front-line police officers to cope with these challenges, and, specifically in respect of the terrorist threat, that she is liaising with Home Office colleagues to ensure proper police co-ordination across the United Kingdom?

[Mrs Villiers]

On the last point, I had the opportunity to discuss Northern Ireland matters with the Home Secretary yesterday, and my officials stay in regular touch with Home Office colleagues. The hon. Gentleman probably did not hear my earlier answer. There are currently 6,795 officers in the PSNI, while the Chief Constable believes that he needs 6,963, so there is a shortfall and the Chief Constable wishes to start recruiting once again. The UK Government are anxious to ensure that that is possible. That is one of the reasons why we have allocated additional national security funding. We are also working with the DOJ to ensure that discussions with the DFP reach a satisfactory conclusion on the Northern Ireland Executive’s contribution.

[Mr Lewis]

That shortfall is a serious concern, and it is important that the Secretary of State does something about it.

Turning to another issue, I had the privilege yesterday of meeting representatives of the Disabled Police Officers Association of Northern Ireland. I heard first hand the moving and disturbing testimonies of retired police officers who suffered lasting physical and mental scars through their work on the front line during the troubles. Does the Secretary of State accept that we owe a great debt of gratitude to these retired officers, and will she make representations to Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive about the erosion of their injury pension rights?

[Mrs Villiers]

The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan) met the Disabled Police Officers Association of Northern Ireland, and I would like to associate myself with the shadow Secretary of State’s comments to the effect that we owe them a huge debt of gratitude. The representations made at that meeting will, of course, be taken up with the Northern Ireland Executive. My understanding is that decisions on these matters lie primarily within the devolved field.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

3. What assessment she has made of the potential effect in Northern Ireland of the Government’s proposed further reductions in welfare expenditure.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

5. What recent discussions she has had with the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland on public order in Northern Ireland.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

Public order issues are primarily a matter for the Justice Minister and the Chief Constable, in line with the devolution settlement. However, I meet them both regularly to discuss a range of issues, which often include public order matters.

[Sammy Wilson]

Does the Secretary of State share the concern felt by many people in Northern Ireland about the apparently partisan way in which the PSNI has dealt with public order offences? On the one hand, members of the loyalist community who have been involved in street protests have been arrested, had their homes raided, been refused bail, and gone to jail; on the other hand, a prominent Sinn Fein Member of the Legislative Assembly who obstructed the police and encouraged others to attack them was merely given a warning. Does the Secretary of State not agree that public order offences must be dealt with firmly but also evenly, because otherwise confidence in the police will be lost?

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree that it is always important for the police to be fair and even-handed, and I believe that they have shown those qualities in dealing with all the public order incidents that have occurred in recent years. I know that they take their duties of fairness, even-handedness and respect for human rights very seriously. I urge those who might become involved in violent protests not to do so, because such action is disastrous for them and negative for the community, and, of course, I urge all elected representatives to support the police in every possible way, given the difficult duties that they must fulfil.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Obviously, the need to deal with public order issues and to try to contain the threat from dissident republicans requires an increasing number of police officers. It is therefore extremely worrying that a steady flow of experienced police officers is haemorrhaging away from the Police Service of Northern Ireland every single month. What assurances has the Secretary of State managed to extract from the Treasury that there will be funds to guarantee recruitment to the PSNI?

[Mrs Villiers]

A guaranteed total of £200 million in the current spending review and £30 million in the next will be provided to assist the PSNI in its national security work, which will of course enable it to be more effective across the board. As I said in response to earlier questions, the Executive and the PSNI are currently discussing the additional funding that will be needed in 2015-16 to enable the PSNI to commence the recruitment that the Chief Constable believes is necessary.

[Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)]

Given the impact that public order has on policing and budgets in Northern Ireland, does the Secretary of State agree that the recommendations in the Haass report, which stated that there should be a legally enforceable code of conduct for all parades and protests, would go a long way to changing behaviour on the ground?

[Mrs Villiers]

There is much to be said for the proposals on parading in draft seven of Richard Haass’s work. It is disappointing that the parties have not felt able to agree with those proposals as yet. Further work is clearly needed before we can get an agreement among the five parties. I urge them to see whether they can find a way to resolve their differences, including on the issue of a code of conduct and what sanctions should accompany it.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

8. If she will hold discussions with the responsible Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive on the number of middle-grade accident and emergency doctors in Northern Ireland; and if she will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

9. What public funding will be made available to help implement an agreement on flags, parades and protests, and dealing with the past.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

I would urge the parties to continue their efforts to reach agreement on these matters. Since these areas fall mainly within the devolved field, funding for them is also devolved to Northern Ireland as part of the block grant.

[Mr Campbell]

There will be a waiting public wanting to see whether agreement can be reached on these very comprehensive matters. Will the Secretary of State ensure that whatever funding is needed in addition to the block grant to deliver this can be delivered to ensure a much more peaceful and prosperous future in Northern Ireland?

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree that these issues are very important. They are difficult to resolve, and finding an agreed way forward would be very positive for Northern Ireland. However, it is primarily for the Northern Ireland Executive to find the money for these proposals within the block grant they are already allocated, which, as my right hon. Friend the Minister of State has pointed out, is considerably higher per head than elsewhere in the UK. We will of course consider proposals for additional funding, but the deficit means I can make no promises as to whether it will be granted.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

10. What assessment she has made of progress in the Haass talks.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

All parties have acknowledged that there are elements of the Haass proposals that they can support. It is important that they continue their negotiations to try to resolve their differences, and the UK Government will continue to support their efforts to do that.

[Tom Greatrex]

I thank the Secretary of State for her reply; I am sure that she was expecting that question. Will she tell us what discussions on these issues she has had with the Government of the Republic of Ireland, ahead of any possible recommencement of the talks?

[Mrs Villiers]

I have had regular discussions with Eamon Gilmore on this matter, including a number of meetings in Northern Ireland and in Dublin. We are keen to work together to encourage the finding of a way forward, and to encourage the political parties in Northern Ireland to reconcile their differences and get an agreement over the line.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

11. I welcome the Secretary of State’s positive comments on the Haass process. Does she agree that much has been achieved and that we should now implement as much of that as possible by creating the necessary legislation and resolving the remaining differences?

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree that considerable progress has been achieved. These issues are incredibly divisive, and the fact that all five political parties have found a degree of common ground is very welcome. I also agree that we should keep up the momentum and seize this opportunity to get an agreement over the line and to reconcile the differences that still exist among the five parties.

The Prime Minister was asked—

Haass Talks

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement about the cross-party negotiations in Belfast that came to a close during the early hours of new year’s eve, but first I would like to express my sorrow at the news that Paul Goggins has died. He was a truly excellent and effective Northern Ireland Minister and I have to say one of the kindest, most sincere and most popular Members of this House. He will be much missed, and I would like to take this opportunity to express my sympathy and support to his family as they deal with this shocking loss.

Last May, the First and Deputy First Ministers announced a working group consisting of representatives from each of the five parties in the Executive to look at three of the most divisive issues for Northern Ireland: flags, parading and the legacy of the past. The initiative formed a key element of wider proposals to tackle sectarianism set out in the Executive’s strategy document, “Together: Building a United Community”. In July, former US diplomat Richard Haass agreed to chair the group. He served as the US special envoy to Northern Ireland from 2001 to 2003. Along with his deputy, Professor Meghan O’Sullivan, Dr Haass began work in September with the aim of reaching agreement by the end of the year.

From the outset, the UK Government, along with the Irish Government and the US Administration, have strongly supported the Haass process. We welcomed the fact that it was the parties within Northern Ireland that had taken the initiative in seeking progress on these complex and difficult issues as part of the work that the Government had strongly pressed them to take forward on building a shared society and addressing sectarian division.

All three of the issues under consideration in the Haass group have the capacity sharply to divide opinion in Northern Ireland. Repeated attempts to deal with the past have produced little consensus up to now, while disputes over parading and flags have frequently led to serious public disorder. Some form of accommodation on those issues that commands cross-party support could therefore have significant benefits for political stability, public order and economic prosperity in Northern Ireland.

Although the UK Government were never formally a participant in the Haass process, we have been fully engaged with it from the start. I had a significant number of meetings with Dr Haass and my officials remained in frequent contact with his team. During the latter stages of the talks, I spoke regularly with Dr Haass, as I did with the leaders of Northern Ireland’s political parties and the Irish Foreign Minister, Eamon Gilmore. The Prime Minister also maintained a close interest in the process. We worked to encourage an agreement, even where that meant the parties making difficult decisions to try to move things forward.

The Haass process reached its final, intensive phase of negotiation in the days before Christmas and between Christmas and the new year, when a number of drafts were circulated, the final one being presented to the parties shortly after midnight on the morning of 31 December. It proposed a new set of arrangements for regulating parades and protests, with responsibility vested for the first time in devolved hands. On flags and emblems there was no immediate resolution, but the document advocated the establishment of a new commission to look at wider issues of identity, culture and tradition in Northern Ireland. On the past, Dr Haass proposed two new bodies: an historical investigations unit, in place of the Police Service of Northern Ireland’s Historical Enquiries Team, to investigate troubles-related deaths; and an independent commission on information recovery.

It was of course disappointing that it did not prove possible to reach a comprehensive agreement within the timetable Dr Haass set, and it is clear that some of the parties have genuine concerns about aspects of what is in the final document, yet the clear message from the Prime Minister, from me and from the Irish Government is that this should not be seen as the end of the road.

The Haass process has seen much valuable work done and some real progress has been made. The discussions managed to achieve a considerable amount of common ground, which this Government believe can provide the basis for continuing discussions between the parties. From my many conversations with the parties, I have no doubt that there is a willingness to make progress on the issues that continue to be a focus for tension and division.

The momentum now needs to be maintained. I believe that Northern Ireland’s political leadership should lose no time in seeking a way forward that gets the parties back around the table to try to resolve their outstanding differences. For our part, the Government are continuing our dialogue with the parties and with the Irish Government to see how best we can help facilitate that. I firmly believe that there is still a chance to achieve a successful outcome from the work started by Dr Haass, and I have been speaking with party leaders to discuss the next steps.

At the same time, it is important that we do not lose sight of other important tasks for Northern Ireland, such as the need to continue to make progress on implementing the economic pact and boosting the economy, to take forward a range of measures to build a shared future and to move ahead with welfare reforms.

Finally, I would like to place on the record both the Prime Minister’s and my thanks to Dr Haass, Professor O’Sullivan and their team for the dedication they have brought to chairing the talks. I very much hope that, working together, we can now build on the valuable work that they have started.

[Mr Ivan Lewis (Bury South) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State for her statement and for giving me advance sight of a copy. May I also thank her for her kind words about Paul Goggins? I hope that hon. Members in all parts of the House will understand that I want to begin with a few words about my colleague but, more importantly, good friend, Paul.

Paul served with distinction as a Minister in Northern Ireland. As my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition and the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) said, he earned the respect of politicians, officials and community activists alike for his knowledge and empathy. He continued to take a close interest in all things Northern Ireland, and I know from my discussions with him that he had grown to love Northern Ireland.

But Paul was a lot more than an outstanding Minister. He was a man whose integrity, decency and values, rooted in a strong Christian faith, shone through in everything he did. He treated everyone with the same dignity and respect, whether a Prime Minister or a constituent living on one of the poorest council estates in Wythenshawe.

Paul and I had a special bond, for many years an affliction, of being avid Manchester City fans. We even set up the Westminster branch of the Manchester City supporters club together.

I will never forget Paul’s loyalty and friendship through the ups and downs of our shared political journey. He will be missed more than words can adequately express. Our thoughts and prayers are with Wyn and his children.

I pay tribute to Richard Haass and Meghan O’Sullivan for their professionalism and commitment in striving for a positive way forward on some of the most challenging issues facing Northern Ireland. Flags, parades and dealing with the past are running sores that continue to inhibit progress towards the priority objective of building a shared and better future. They have to be tackled in a way that respects the insecurity and sensitivities of both traditions while balancing strong convictions with necessary compromises.

It would be wrong not to acknowledge that the failure of the Haass talks to reach a final agreement was both disappointing and potentially damaging to public confidence in Northern Ireland’s politicians and the political process. However, it is important that we retain a sense of perspective and that all parties in Northern Ireland refrain from name-calling or engaging in a blame game. Significant advances were made that can form the basis of future progress, as the Secretary of State said. That is particularly the case in relation to dealing with the past, where victims’ groups deserve tremendous credit for submissions that were coherent and compelling.

We want to see all parties back round the negotiating table as soon as possible with a shared commitment to working together on shared solutions. The UK and Irish Governments have a crucial role to play, not only as guarantors of the peace process but because of the legislative and financial implications that would flow from any agreement.

In that context, I have a number of questions for the Secretary of State. What dialogue is taking place between her and the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on the potential legislation that will be required to implement any agreement? What discussions has she had with her counterparts in the Irish Government about the financial implications of a new infrastructure to deal with the past? Can she explain why, at this sensitive time, she has weakened the capacity of the newly appointed Parades Commission by reducing the number of commissioners and the number of hours that each commissioner will be expected to work? While I acknowledge her contribution during the course of the Haass talks, does she understand that at this time of uncertainty the widespread perception of disengagement by the UK Government is causing concern across a wide spectrum of opinion in Northern Ireland, and that this needs to change? Finally, does she acknowledge the negative impact that some of the welfare reforms mentioned in her speech, particularly the pernicious bedroom tax, would have on people in Northern Ireland?

Northern Ireland has made tremendous progress over the past 15 years. This has been possible only because of the determination of people to build a better future for themselves and their families—but it is also thanks to the vision and courage of Northern Ireland’s political leaders. There will be no turning back, but there can be no standing still. That is why we hope that the First Minister and Deputy First Minister will convene an all-party working group as soon as possible and ensure that the progress that has been made can be consolidated in an agreement that attracts widespread public support but will also stand the test of time.

[Mrs Villiers]

I echo and thank the shadow Secretary of State for his words on Paul Goggins. Paul’s example is one with which to counter the cynicism about MPs and about politicians, because he illustrated such a strong commitment to decency, integrity and public service. I also strongly echo the shadow Secretary of State’s point that Paul retained a genuine affection for Northern Ireland. He cared deeply about it, I am sure, when he was a Minister, and it was clear that he still did so in his discussions with me as Secretary of State some time after he had ceased to be a Minister. He had strong values, which I am sure were a great support to him in his work in this House and in Northern Ireland.

The shadow Secretary of State’s remarks illustrate that there is a lot of common ground between Front Benchers on a way forward. I agree that getting the parties together and back around the table in a working group to try to resolve the differences between them is the right way forward. That is what I have been urging the political parties to do. I also agree that an eventual solution needs to respect the sensitivities of the different traditions, but that it must also involve compromise on all sides.

It is important to recognise the progress made on the past, which is a particularly difficult issue for all of us, including, in some ways, the UK Government. I believe, like the shadow Secretary of State, that the voice of victims and survivors played a very positive role in taking things forward and that any eventual solution must place victims and survivors at its heart.

The shadow Secretary of State asked about the dialogue between me and the First and Deputy First Ministers. I have spoken to both of them in recent days to urge that a way forward be found and that the working group commence.

The legislation to implement what would be needed from the Haass proposals would come primarily through the Assembly and the Executive. The part this House would play would be, potentially, the devolution of parading. The mechanics of setting up the new bodies would be a matter for the Assembly and the Executive.

I have kept in close touch with Eamon Gilmore and the Irish Government—both before and after the talks broke up—on matters relating to the past and all the other issues under discussion in this process, including a discussion on finances. It is very clear that the UK Government face a significant deficit, which means that we have to take care with public spending. We expect the primary resource for the new mechanisms to be found from within the block grant to Northern Ireland, but we will, of course, always consider further applications for funding from the Northern Ireland Executive if they wish to press ahead with the measures. We will, however, be constrained in what we can offer by the need to tackle the deficit we inherited.

On reducing the number of commissioners, I strongly believe that we have a strong new Parades Commission that will do important work in the months to come. I am sure we all hope that a reformed system will take over in the devolved space if the agreements are eventually signed off by all the parties, but in the meantime I am sure the current Parades Commission will do an excellent job.

I wholly refute the perception of disengagement by the UK Government. The UK Government are strongly engaged with the Haass process and with Northern Ireland. We brought the G8 to Northern Ireland—one of the most successful events ever for Northern Ireland—and we followed it up with a strong investment conference. We signed an economic pact that sees us working more closely than ever with the devolved Government, including the commitment to meet the £18 billion of capital spending, and we are determined to press ahead with supporting the Executive in their moves on a shared future. We have responded when the Executive have asked us—for example, to devolve air passenger duty for long-haul flights. We stepped in to assist in the grave situation we inherited from Labour with the Presbyterian Mutual Society. We are continuing to work on the devolution of corporation tax. There is a whole range of ways in which this Government are working closely with the Northern Ireland Executive for the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland.

On welfare reform, we will continue our discussions with the Northern Ireland parties, but we believe that the compromises agreed with Minister McCausland are appropriate and will help adapt the welfare reform system to the particular needs of Northern Ireland.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

As Chairman of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, may I join the Secretary of State, the Prime Minister and others in expressing our deepest sympathies to the family of Paul Goggins, who has so shockingly passed away? He was a thoroughly decent and honourable man. When he was a Minister, I had the pleasure of shadowing him for about three years, and I have to tell the House that he was a very competent Minister. I say without any fear of contradiction that without his contribution I do not think we would be here today at this advanced stage of the Northern Ireland peace process, so highly do I value his work.

The Secretary of State is, of course, right in saying that it was the Northern Ireland parties that initiated the Haass process. I think Dr Haass was given a rather impossible task of finding quick solutions to problems that have existed for a long time. Is it not important now that those discussions between the parties in Northern Ireland and, furthermore, with community leaders in Northern Ireland continue, because such engagement is as important as any solutions that may come from those discussions?

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[Mrs Villiers]

I agree with my hon. Friend the Chairman of the Committee. Four months was a very tight timetable in which to reach agreement on issues that some would argue have been a problem in Northern Ireland for very many years—some would argue that some of the issues date back hundreds of years in terms of identity. It was always going to be a tough ask to meet that timetable. I agree that the solution now is to resume those discussions between the parties. Although it is clear that some of the parties have expressed concern about the final draft of the Haass proposals, none of them is walking away. They are all saying that the process should continue and they all seem to be prepared to engage in that dialogue. I urge them to do so.

[Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab)]

May I associate myself with the remarks of the Secretary of State and my hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State about Paul Goggins? As a former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, I can testify to the fact that Paul’s work was instrumental in bringing forward both the political and the peace process in Northern Ireland. Like many others in this House, I have lost a good friend.

Even though the Haass talks have temporarily ended, what is the Secretary of State’s plan to engage her civil servants and Irish civil servants in work on the specific issues that are still a matter of controversy, so that those officials will be able to give advice, wisdom and evidence to the working parties that will soon be set up?

[Mrs Villiers]

My officials have worked with Irish Government officials throughout the process, just as I have kept up regular contacts at political levels. We also stand ready to provide advice, help and support to the Executive in taking these matters forward. The role of officials will obviously be crucial in coming up with a solution that is workable and practical and that can be implemented.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

I also associate myself with the remarks of the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of State about Paul Goggins. I did not know him very well, because I was elected only a few years ago, but the intrinsic fairness and kindness he showed me as the Liberal Democrat Front-Bench spokesman on Northern Ireland was tremendously helpful.

On the Haass report, I appreciate the Secretary of State’s statement. We all know that it was very challenging: the Haass commission had about 100 meetings, met 500 people and received 600 submissions. It went into the process very strongly, but we have reached a point where we are stuck on the two or three things that I suspect most Members knew we would be stuck on. Are there any plans to bring Dr Haass and his team back to unlock the logjam at an appropriate time?

[Mrs Villiers]

In my conversations with Dr Haass I certainly floated the idea that he might come back in January, but that looks unlikely. He has professional commitments that would make it very difficult for him to re-engage in the same way, but I am sure he will continue to take a close interest in matters as they go forward. It is now important for the First and Deputy First Ministers to get the parties together around the table. They got very close to getting over the line in the run-up to the final discussions. Even the leader of the Ulster Unionist party was saying that perhaps 80% of what was on the table might be acceptable. Clearly, that party has serious concerns about the proposals, but it is indicating that it will continue to take part. Continuing this dialogue is the way forward.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

The breadth and depth of the outpourings of grief and tributes to Paul Goggins are a testament to the integrity and standing of the gentleman. I am sure that other right hon. and hon. Members on these Benches will want to add their own personal tributes.



I join the Secretary of State in thanking Dr Haass and Meghan O’Sullivan. I also thank our own talks team, my right hon. Friend the Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson), Jonathan Bell—a junior Minister in the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister—and Rev. Mervyn Gibson, who put in many hours over the holiday period, along with others in other parties, to try to make progress.

I welcome what the Secretary of State said in her statement. She will know that, under the terms of reference, it was for the parties themselves to come to an agreement on a set of recommendations. At the final plenary, four of the five parties could not support the final draft from Dr Haass in full, but it remains a necessity to try to make progress and for agreement to be reached among the parties in Northern Ireland. In our view, substantial progress has been made, although we are not there yet and there remain significant problems in certain areas. As the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) said, these issues have been around for many decades, if not centuries.

I also welcome what the Secretary of State said about the need to continue the process through talks between the parties. Will she do everything possible to ensure that those parties that have indicated an unwillingness to continue to talk to try to resolve these problems come back to the table and join the rest of us in trying to move Northern Ireland forward?

[Mrs Villiers]

I certainly give the right hon. Gentleman that assurance. It is welcome that the Democratic Unionist party has signalled very strongly that although it has reservations about aspects of the Haass proposals, there is much that it can support and that it wants the process to continue. Of course, as the largest party in the Executive, it will be crucial in taking these matters forward.

Like the right hon. Gentleman, I want to thank not only Dr Haass and Professor O’Sullivan, but all the participants in the working group. At one stage, Dr Haass told me rather wearily that he had not appreciated that politicians in Northern Ireland were quite so nocturnal. There were certainly many all-night sittings, so the stamina of all those taking part is much appreciated.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for her statement and for being continuously involved throughout the Haass process. Will she continue to work with the parties, because it is vital for Northern Ireland to get inward investment, and the sight of such public disorder on the issues of parades and flags is perhaps a significant deterrent?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Villiers]

Yes. It is clear that parades in particular, but also flags, have frequently played a part in triggering disgraceful scenes of rioting. If we can build more consensus on those issues, it will have tremendous benefits for the police, who have to deal with public order problems, as well as for inward investment, because few things put off inward investors more than political instability and street violence.

[Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State tell us whether her law-abiding, decent constituents in Chipping Barnet would have accepted the final Haass document, given that it equates victims of terrorism with terrorists, diminishes the role of terrorism right throughout the troubles and seems to many people to have ended up as a very one-sided attempt to change the history of what really went on over the past 30 years?

[Mrs Villiers]

I would hope that my constituents see the Haass proposals, as I do, as a workable basis for continuing discussions. It is obviously disappointing that the proposals are not yet in a state that means all five parties can sign up to them, but the reality is that getting any kind of solution to these issues will be very difficult.

The issues about the past, in particular, are very sensitive, not least because of anxieties about whether any process might end up with a disproportionate focus on state activity. We must, however, recognise the efforts made by Dr Haass and the participants in the working group to try to ensure that there are safeguards to prevent processes on the past ending up as one-sided, which is what the hon. Lady is concerned about.

[Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con)]

The Haass discussions took place during a backdrop, in the run-up to Christmas, of increased efforts by dissidents to disrupt economic life in Northern Ireland. What recent discussions has my right hon. Friend had with the Chief Constable about the ongoing and future threat from dissidents?

[Mrs Villiers]

The attacks before Christmas by dissident republicans were disgraceful. It was particularly despicable that they were deliberately aimed at places where people were doing their Christmas shopping or were out for a festive drink, while the attack on commercial targets was deeply unpleasant. The message for these dissident republicans is that they will not succeed. These attacks are utterly pointless. They are disgraceful and they have been condemned almost universally across Northern Ireland. They have no political support and will achieve nothing. I am certain from my many conversations with the Chief Constable, the most recent of which was this morning, that the Police Service of Northern Ireland will leave no stone unturned in bringing to justice those responsible for the attacks before Christmas.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I, like others, want to express my deep regret and sympathy to Paul Goggins’s family. Paul exhibited many good qualities, if not every good quality, that one would expect to be found in a decent human being—integrity, humility and genuine friendship, as well as a deep sense of social justice, to name but a few. I first met him when he was a Northern Ireland Minister. He was outstanding because of his sheer decency and sheer human qualities, and he played a very positive role, as other hon. Members have already said. In time, after I entered the House, he became a firm friend, a trusted source of good advice and a confidant. I have been very moved because, right across the House today, we all miss Paul, and we will miss him even more in future, with his good counsel and his wise advice. To his colleagues, friends and family, I add my condolences and sympathy. It is a sad day for all of us.

I welcome the Secretary of State’s endorsement of the significant progress made in the Haass talks. I express my appreciation for her involvement and that of the Prime Minister in the later stages. The Secretary of State will recall that when the Haass process has been mentioned on previous occasions, I have urged a much greater involvement at an earlier stage by both the British and Irish Governments to ensure a positive outcome and to put in place a determined implementation and legislation programme. The process was not just about the talks themselves and whatever conclusion they came to; there needed to be a major follow-through process, and that is still required.

I believe that a lot has been achieved—the glass is not half full; it is three-quarters full—but may I now urge the Secretary of State to ensure that her Government engage even more intensively, hands on and proactively with the parties, the Irish Government and Richard Haass and his team, and take the lead to ensure the implementation of the considerable progress that has been made, the initiation of legislation where it is required and the resolution of the outstanding issues?

[Mrs Villiers]

I certainly give the hon. Gentleman the reassurance that I will continue to be very strongly involved with the parties, the Irish Government and Dr Haass, as well as with friends across the Atlantic who have taken a close interest in the process. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind words about my involvement and that of the Prime Minister.

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the issue of implementation. Even had there been full agreement on new year’s eve, there would still be a lot of work ahead to turn Dr Haass’s proposals into legislation and into new institutions operating on the ground. The UK Government, the Northern Ireland Office, officials and I are very keen to work on the practical implementation process. Not least because of our current responsibilities in relation to parading, we are very keen and eager to input into the process of implementing any agreement if, as I hope, it can be agreed between the parties.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

Speaking as someone who has lost friends, and not just soldiers, in Northern Ireland—as have so many friends who represent Northern Ireland constituencies—how can my right hon. Friend balance the competing claims of the requirement to find out what happened to so many people who were cruelly murdered and the requirement to encourage people to come forward, perhaps with limited liability, so that we can find out what happened to the many people who have simply disappeared in Northern Ireland?

[Mrs Villiers]

Clearly, those matters were at the heart of the work of the political parties and Dr Haass. My hon. Friend will be aware that the idea that was floated of a general amnesty was almost universally rejected. The current proposals include a limited immunity, whereby to encourage people to take part in the truth recovery process, their representations and statements would not be admissible in subsequent criminal proceedings. That is not to say that subsequent criminal proceedings could not go ahead on the basis of other evidence. It was clear from what was said by pretty much all the political parties and the public reaction to the statement of the Attorney-General that the option of prosecution must be kept alive. The proposals that are on the table do not seek to take that option away.

[Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)]

May I take this opportunity to express my sympathy to the colleagues, friends and family of Paul Goggins? He had an interest in Northern Ireland and a concern for its people that extended far beyond his tenure as Minister of State. That has been clear to me in my work in this House and, previously, as an Assembly Member. He was also a true gentleman. He displayed integrity, generosity and grace in his public service, but also in his private dealings. The House is much poorer for his passing.

As a participant in the talks process in Northern Ireland, I pay tribute to Dr Richard Haass, Professor Meghan O’Sullivan and their team. They have shown commitment and dedication to the process over the past six months and not just in its latter weeks, when it became incredibly intense. Richard Haass was clear throughout the process that the issue with finding a resolution was not the shortness of time, but the will to make the necessary compromises. Does the Secretary of State agree that any continuation of the process must remain focused on taking the difficult decisions, rather than avoiding them while creating an illusion of activity, if it is to deliver on the hopes that the public have invested in the Haass process?

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree with the hon. Lady. To achieve success on any of the issues, particularly on the past, compromise is needed. Compromises have sometimes been difficult in the history of Northern Ireland. They will no doubt be difficult on these issues too, including for the UK Government. We are very clear that if the parties are prepared to make compromises to make progress, the UK Government will back them.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

I associate myself with the remarks that have been made about the late Paul Goggins. He was a man of profound Christian belief and that guided him in his work. That is an example to us all. I add my condolences to his family.

The Haass talks have reached a stalemate. One of the drawbacks of setting a deadline is that once it has passed, unless agreement has been reached, the impetus can be lost. The advantage of these talks appears to be that they were chaired by an independent organisation that brought true independence and experience to the process. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that there are no plans to introduce a further set of people as independent arbiters of the talks and that every effort will be made to bring back Dr Haass and his team at an appropriate moment when the parties have reflected on the work that has been done?

[Mrs Villiers]

As I said, I am not sure that Dr Haass is in a position to come back and perform the role of chairman, but I hope that he will continue to engage. Introducing another independent chairman is an option for the First and Deputy First Ministers. I am not sure that it is needed at the moment, but it is well worth their consideration. I hope that we have not reached a stalemate. That is not how I would characterise the situation. There is still an opportunity for the political parties to grasp. They can do that by getting back around the table to continue the discussions.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Thank you for calling me, Mr Speaker. It is so kind of you. With your permission, I would like to put on the record a personal tribute and a tribute on behalf of my constituents to Paul Goggins. The news of his sudden death was profoundly and deeply shocking not just to this House, his colleagues and most of all his family, but right across Northern Ireland. Paul Goggins had hefty and important responsibilities in the Northern Ireland Office. He was an exceptional Minister, particularly with regard to health and security. It will be widely regretted that he has died at the young age of 60—just 60. However, in those 60 years, he achieved an enormous amount. He has left a very positive legacy in Northern Ireland. As has been mentioned by other right hon. and hon. Members, he had a deep personal Christian faith. He lived that faith in the manner in which he treated everyone, irrespective of their political views or their faith.

I welcome the statement by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I welcome the fact that an early opportunity has been taken to report to this House on the Haass talks. I draw attention to the fact that the Secretary of State did not suggest in her statement that if the parties cannot agree among themselves, the British and Irish Governments will impose the Haass proposals on the parties and the people of Northern Ireland. That suggestion has been made in Northern Ireland. Will she take this opportunity to reject it clearly and frankly, because that would not be acceptable?

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Lady is right that it would be very difficult to impose a solution from above. I agree with the calls on both Governments to continue to engage, encourage and facilitate. Ultimately, the best way to resolve these issues is through cross-party agreement within Northern Ireland. It was important to give this House the chance to debate the situation at the earliest opportunity so that we could send a strong message of support to Northern Ireland’s political leadership in their endeavours to reach an agreement on these issues, which have caused so much tension over so many years.

I share the hon. Lady’s sentiments on the shocking nature of the news about Paul Goggins. Even now, a few hours after learning the truth, it is very hard to believe that it has happened. This place will be all the poorer for his absence.

[David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)]

I would like to express my sadness at the passing of Paul Goggins. As a near neighbour, I learned a lot from him and his approach to politics. He was an ardent campaigner and obviously a great Minister, but he was also an outstanding and dedicated parliamentarian. I learned a lot from his approach to tackling the problems faced by victims of mesothelioma and from the way he helped Manchester airport to have a vibrant future. He was an outstanding parliamentarian and he will be missed locally.

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for setting out clearly the progress that has been made in the Haass process. Does she agree that, although further progress is required, there must be no let up in the steps to improve economic regeneration in the region?

[Mrs Villiers]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Rebalancing the economy in Northern Ireland by boosting the private sector is crucial. That is why we are pressing ahead with implementing our side of the economic pact. I will continue to work with the Northern Ireland Executive in taking forward their obligations in the economic pact. I am delighted to say that the first tranche of the new capital borrowing powers that have been granted as a result of the pact will in due course support a new shared education campus in Lisanelly, which will give many more children the chance to share part of their education with kids from different community backgrounds and traditions.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

As the Secretary of State will know, 90% of the deaths in Northern Ireland during the troubles were caused by paramilitary and terrorist organisations, and yet much of the focus is on what the state did. We cannot have a process that is disproportionate, that seeks to rewrite the history of the troubles and to sanitise terrorism, and that ignores the needs of the vast majority of innocent victims who were murdered by the terrorists.

[Mrs Villiers]

I certainly agree that the processes on the past need to be balanced and must recognise the proper attributions of responsibility for the deaths during the troubles. I acknowledge that that is one of the most important things to get right. I am impressed by the degree of progress that has been made by the political parties. They have come a great deal closer to an agreement on the past than I ever expected. I hope that in due course we will reach an agreement and a conclusion on that matter.

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

On the proposals perhaps to establish a common flag for all communities representing Northern Ireland, will my right hon. Friend say a little more about how the commission on emblems will operate, and tell us whether there is any time scale for it to report?

[Mrs Villiers]

The timing envisaged for the commission on identity and flags is around 18 months. I have always thought that there might be scope for the development of new shared emblems, and I hope that that will be considered seriously by the new commission, if it is set up. I genuinely think that there are merits in trying to have a broader conversation with civic society about moving forward on the issues of culture, identity and tradition that have proved so intractable up to now.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

May I thank the Secretary of State for her statement, and associate myself with the remarks about the late Paul Goggins? He represented the epitome of compassion, humility, decency and integrity in this House, and during his time as a Minister in the Northern Ireland Office and the Home Office.

On the Haass talks, I pay particular tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), and to Alex Attwood and Joe Byrne, who formed a sterling team at the talks on behalf of the SDLP. In view of the compelling need of victims and survivors, it is important that an implementation plan is put in process. Will the Secretary of State and the Minister of State take an active interest in ensuring that immediate discussions take place with the five parties to ensure that legislation, implementation and a resolution are found for those whether two people I talked to last week: one whose father was killed as a result of the activities of the military reaction force; and a widow whose husband was a policeman in Northern Ireland? Those people came from different perspectives, but they were suffering none the less owing to their tragic and sudden loss.

[Mrs Villiers]

I reiterate the tributes paid to all participants in the working group, including the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson). Despite the fact that an agreement has not yet been reached, a remarkable amount of consensus has developed between the parties. We must build on that, and ensure that this is not a wasted opportunity and that the parties can get together again to resolve the remaining issues that divide them. On an implementation plan, as I have said already at the Dispatch Box, if agreement is forthcoming, of course the UK Government would be keen to provide support and advice on the practicalities of implementing the proposals across the three areas.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Given what has been said, it appears that no one is particularly surprised that the talks have not worked out, and that no one in particular is being blamed, as these issues are difficult and go back over a long period. Indeed, there is a good deal of satisfaction that this much progress has been made. It also appears that independent chairmanship worked. Although Dr Richard Haass is no longer available, it would be a shame to lose the momentum and the progress that has been made, so should not the Secretary of State encourage the Executive to appoint a new independent chairman and keep the process going while it is still warm so that we can cross that final finishing line?

[Mrs Villiers]

As I have said, that issue is well worth considering, and this shows one of the values of this early opportunity to debate in the House where things stand with the Haass process. No doubt the First Minister and Deputy First Minister will be given a read out of our proceedings, and I will certainly discuss with them the possibilities of appointing an independent chair, if they think that appropriate.

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

I join my right hon. Friends the Members for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) and for Belfast North (Mr Dodds), as well as other hon. Members, in their tributes to Paul Goggins. I knew him personally and found him to be someone who was set apart from many others. He was a person of great grace and tremendous integrity, and he was approachable by everyone, irrespective of which side of the House they were from.

I also thank the Secretary of State for bringing to the House her report on the Haass talks. She will be acutely aware of attempts by republicans to place the flag of the Irish Republic on an equal footing with our sovereign flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. There is one sovereign flag in Northern Ireland—the Union flag. As a professed Unionist, will the right hon. Lady assure me that the Government will never support any attempt to equate the sovereign flag with the flag of the Irish Republic, a neighbouring country?

[Mrs Villiers]

As the sovereign flag of the United Kingdom, of course the Union flag must have special status in Northern Ireland. One of the challenges that Dr Haass encountered was that it seemed difficult to distinguish symbols of identity from symbols of sovereignty when it came to an expression of Irishness. It is important that consideration continues on those matters, and I wholeheartedly endorse the hon. Gentleman’s assertion that, of course, the Union flag will always have a special status as the national flag as long as Northern Ireland remains part of the United Kingdom. The Belfast agreement makes it clear that Northern Ireland will stay part of the United Kingdom unless and until its people vote otherwise.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

In the absence of a long-term solution on parading, does the Secretary of State believe that the new Parades Commission has sufficient confidence from all sides in Northern Ireland to ensure that this year’s parading season does not end in the awful scenes that we saw last year? Does she think that any action is required on her part to ensure that such scenes do not happen again?

[Mrs Villiers]

It is timely to remind the House of the vital importance of obeying Parades Commission determinations. We have had an extensive debate about reforming the adjudication system for parades, but unless and until an agreement on that is reached and implemented, the Parades Commission is the lawfully designated authority and its determinations must be obeyed.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

I thank you, Mr Speaker, for what I thought was an extraordinary, moving and wholly appropriate tribute to our colleague, Paul Goggins, at the beginning of this sitting. Paul was inspired by his Christian faith, and all hon. Members will hope that that same faith will be of comfort to his family at this time.

Does the Secretary of State believe that the difficulties she has charted ahead can be overcome by the downgrading of the Parades Commission’s work to just one day a week? Is she confident that that is an appropriate work load?

[Mrs Villiers]

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the Parades Commission is not being downgraded and that it will be able to complete its work. We have a strong new team of parades commissioners, and I reiterate the importance of ensuring that their determinations are obeyed and that the rule of law is respected.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

May I join in the tributes to Paul Goggins? He was an outstanding example of a humanitarian, as well as an assiduous constituency Member of Parliament. Paul and I worked closely a few years ago when he was a Northern Ireland Minister on the re-establishment of Magilligan prison in my constituency when there was a serious threat of its closure. He assured me at that stage that if a case was made, he would overrule some of the decisions that were going to be made in the higher echelons of the civil service. He was, as we all know, a man of his word, and he did that, and I pass on my sympathies to his family and his wife.

We all welcome the Secretary of State’s update to the House on progress regarding the Haass talks. Given the outstanding differences between the political parties to which she refers, does she agree it is essential that all parties get together as quickly as possible to try to hammer out those outstanding differences so that we get a widespread and comprehensive consensus, and can implement—voluntarily—a consensus across the divide that everyone in Northern Ireland will endorse?

[Mrs Villiers]

Yes, I agree with the hon. Gentleman on that. It is essential that all parties come together to try to resolve the outstanding differences between them.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Mr Speaker, may I thank you for speaking for each of us in your very articulate tribute to Paul Goggins’s ethic and the esteem that he earned in this House and beyond? Paul was not a “selfie” politician. His question was not who would get the credit for a measure or change, but who would get the benefit from it. Those of us in Northern Ireland who benefited from his work are right, on this special day, to give him credit for so much of the progress that he helped to build.

Will the Secretary of State affirm clearly that, in respect of the past, the Haass paper has more balance and much more value than the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) sadly tried to suggest? Will the Secretary of State also affirm that the whole Haass process, and the papers we now have, do have the makings of a worthy, worthwhile and workable advance if the parties agree to work on that, and that what we need to do at this stage is not just maintain working contact between the parties, but have a clear and cogent working compact so that we deal with not only those areas of difference but, more importantly, those areas on which we have reached an understanding that is better than we have ever had before?

[Mrs Villiers]

I think that I can broadly agree with the hon. Gentleman on much of that. While I understand the concerns of the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey), I think that what is now on the table is not as unbalanced as she fears—yes, I do think that it has the makings of a workable solution. These proposals can be the basis for further discussions. Clearly, they are not there yet, because five parties have not agreed, but they certainly form a workable basis for moving forward.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

May I also add my comments about Paul Goggins? I met him in my previous life as a councillor on Ards borough council, when I found him to be compassionate and interested in the issues that we were bringing to his attention. When I had the privilege of being elected to this House, he was one of the first to shake my hand and welcome me. There was not a time when he would not come over and say a word of encouragement over your shoulder. I very much appreciate not just his contribution to me as an individual in this House, but the fact that he has left a legacy that we can all be proud to have been part of.

In light of the fact that terrorist organisations have no track record of telling the truth about their past activity, does the Secretary of State accept the genuine fears that any process that is designated to discover truth has the potential to be one-sided if the forces of law and order are subjected to full investigation and the terrorists remain unlikely to the tell the truth?

[Mrs Villiers]

It will certainly be important to ensure that, when agreement is ultimately reached, the procedures on the past are as balanced as they can be. I well understand the concerns expressed by the hon. Member for Vauxhall and others about the importance of ensuring that the process does not lead to attempts to rewrite history or focus exclusively on deaths when the state was involved, and I know that that is something on which the parties have been focused during the discussions. It is important for them to continue to work on that as they try to move forward from what is currently on the table to what I hope, in due course, will be a concluded agreement.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Given the extremely deeply rooted nature of the issues involved in talks about culture, tradition and identity, what role does the Secretary of State anticipate that there will be for schooling and education in helping to resolve some of those issues in the much longer term?

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Lady makes a fair point. Involving young people in a debate about emblems and cultural identity could be very positive. I would have thought that it would be excellent if the commission engaged with children and young people to get their ideas on how to express identity in Northern Ireland in a way that is respectful to other views and communities.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for her statement and join all hon. Members in their tributes to Paul Goggins. In the journey of life, we all meet people who leave a lasting impression, and Paul Goggins certainly was one of those people. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family at this time.

Further to a point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson), does the Secretary of State accept that there can be no fudging of the distinction between those who were the terrorist perpetrators of violence in Northern Ireland over the past 40 years and those victims who were on the receiving end of their violent deeds, and that, to that end, elements of the Haass text were deeply unsatisfactory?

[Mrs Villiers]

The UK Government have always made it clear that we would never find it acceptable for someone to draw equivalence between those who sought to undermine and destroy the rule of law through terrorism and those who sought to uphold it as members of the security forces. However, a lot of progress has been made on the proposals about the past—far more than most people expected. To make that progress and build up such a degree of consensus in just four months is encouraging. Some elements of what is in the Haass proposals are difficult, so I understand concerns about them, but this is an important opportunity to grasp and there is scope for compromise. The UK Government are prepared to be part of that compromise and we encourage the parties to continue to work on these matters.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

May I also join in the tributes to Paul Goggins? Unlike many Ministers who, when they leave Northern Ireland, forget all about the place, Paul was always interested and wanted to hear what was going on, which I think was an indication of the genuine interest he had in the job he performed in Northern Ireland.

Given the wide range of opinions and the deeply held views that were discussed in the Haass talks, does not the Secretary of State agree that no deal was better than a deal that would have exacerbated the divisions in Northern Ireland? While, as politicians and as a society, we have to continue to work at the issues, does she not agree that the best way of undermining those who want to wreck Northern Ireland is to change our education system, get young people into jobs and have a robust economy, rather than implement quick-fix solutions that simply involve more quangos and legislation?

[Mrs Villiers]

If any deal is to work, it is important that it commands a broad consensus. If we are to reach an agreement, some difficult decisions may be needed to get the compromises that are necessary. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that as well as working on the Haass issues, important though they are, it is crucial that efforts continue to be made to improve education in Northern Ireland, to boost the economy and to deal with all the other challenges with which the Northern Ireland Executive continue to grapple.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I, too, would like to be associated with the tributes that have echoed from both sides of the House to our dear friend Paul Goggins. When I was a Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive, he was a particular and specialist help and a source of encouragement. When I had the honour of becoming a Member of this place in 2010, he continued to be not only a friend but, as I saw in the many Committees on which I served with him, an expert on matters of security. His expertise was a particular help. This House will be the poorer for his passing, but his Father’s house of many mansions will be the richer for his presence.

May I also say, Mr Speaker, that I think your tribute to him was touching? You described him as a man who was Labour to the core, but the least tribal of Members. I think that that captured the man and the moment, and we are richer for that.

Turning to the Haass talks, I echo the words of my hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson). You will appreciate, Mr Speaker, that I am known for speaking my mind and for calling a spade a shovel. I believe that my party was right to say no to the final text, and it will remain right to say no until it gets to a point when it is able to say yes to something that we can recommend to our community. I believe that we did the right thing, and we will continue to do the right thing when it comes to saying no at the right time and saying yes when it is appropriate to do so.

The Secretary of State said that it was disappointing that it had not proved possible to reach an agreement on an historical investigations unit to take the place of the HET. Why would she try to fund such a unit, with its panoply of lawyers and additional experts, when there is a shortfall of £60 million, starting in 2015, for the current arrangement, which is the cheaper option, and when there is an additional shortfall of £36 million for security? Will she commit now to finding the money to allow the police to function for the next five years, rather than pursuing this fanciful idea of an historical investigations unit?

[Mrs Villiers]

It is important that the parties continue to work to find an agreed position on all these issues. I welcome the statement from the First Minister that he feels able to support substantial parts of the Haass proposals. The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the issue of costs, which would need to be resolved in the event of an agreement. As I have said, the UK Government would expect the Northern Ireland Executive to fund that primarily from within the considerable resources provided by the block grant. We will obviously consider any application for top-up funding, but given that we have to deal with a deficit of such gravity, it is difficult to commit to additional funds at this stage.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I cannot help but feel that, by now, Paul Goggins would have made a contribution on this statement with his usual good sense, grace and compassion that would have added wisdom to our proceedings. That is why his passing is a loss not just to his family, friends and comrades, but to the House.

It might never be possible to agree entirely about the past, but it should be possible to agree that the future of Northern Ireland will be served only by continued dialogue in the present. To that end, will the Secretary of State do all that she can with Northern Ireland parties, the Irish Government and the shadow Northern Ireland team to maintain the momentum achieved through the Haass process?

[Mrs Villiers]

I can certainly assure the hon. Gentleman that I will do everything that I can to maintain the momentum, working with all the people he outlined.

I would like to close by once again thanking the two Members of the House who were direct participants in the Haass process: the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley and the hon. Member for Belfast East (Naomi Long).

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Secretary of State, the shadow Secretary of State and all colleagues both for what they have said and for the way they have said it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)]

1. What assessment she has made of the Amnesty International report entitled “Northern Ireland: Time to deal with the past”, published in September 2013; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

Let me first express my sadness at the passing of Alec Reid and Eddie McGrady, who will be sadly missed as strong supporters of peace in Northern Ireland.

I have considered the proposals in the recent report by Amnesty, which covers devolved responsibilities in the main, but also covers some reserved matters relating to Northern Ireland’s past. I expect the all-party group chaired by Richard Haass also to take account of Amnesty’s contribution to the debate on these important matters.

[Naomi Long]

This morning I hosted the parliamentary launch of the report, which reinforces the need for a comprehensive mechanism to deal with the past, addressing justice, truth, recognition and support for the bereaved and the injured, and also reconciliation. What assurances can the Secretary of State give that the Government will support, co-operate with and properly resource any such comprehensive process emerging from the Haass talks, allowing the Police Service of Northern Ireland to focus its finite resources on policing the present, and, in particular, protecting our community from those—from both loyalist and republican sources—who wish to drag us back to the past?

[Mrs Villiers]

Let me take this opportunity to reiterate the calls made in Northern Ireland in the wake of recent attacks. There is determination that Northern Ireland will not be dragged back to its past, and there is universal condemnation of the disgraceful attacks that we have seen in recent days.

The Government strongly support the Haass process. We welcomed its establishment, and we urged the Executive to examine the very divisive issues involved. We will, of course, consider the outcome of the process very seriously, and will give thought to what resources we can deploy to support it within the constraints of the budgets available to us.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

The report states that

“there are longstanding allegations that Irish authorities turned a blind eye to arms smuggling across the border and to members of republican groups fleeing—after attacks had been carried out—back to the Republic of Ireland”.

Will my right hon. Friend raise that aspect of the report with the Irish authorities to ensure their full co-operation?

[Mrs Villiers]

I shall be happy to do so. Let me add, however, that the security co-operation between the police services north and south of the border has never been stronger. It is hugely important in combating the threat not just from dissident republicans, but from other criminals who seek to use the border to enhance their criminal activities. We continue to work with the authorities in the Republic of Ireland to establish how we can enhance our security co-operation with them.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

The Amnesty report contains a section on inquests. Has the Secretary of State been offered any explanation of why the Attorney-General in Northern Ireland, who has ordered the reopening of more than 40 historic inquests, now seems to believe that they should be abandoned?

[Mrs Villiers]

The Attorney-General’s remarks were patently made on his own behalf rather than that of the Northern Ireland Executive or the Government, and they received almost universal criticism. The Prime Minister has made it clear that we have no plans to introduce an amnesty along the lines suggested by the Attorney-General—and yes, I acknowledge that there is a degree of contradiction between his actions and his comments in relation to inquests.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Will the Secretary of State go a bit further and tell the House what action she is prepared to take to ensure that justice is done and seen to be done, rather than justice and the process of law being abandoned, which is what a senior law officer in Northern Ireland wants to happen?

[Mrs Villiers]

The Government are entirely committed to the integrity of the rule of law, and we will maintain our position. I think it important for the outcome of the Haass discussions also to abide by that principle, and to be consistent with maintaining the integrity of the rule of law.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that all the victims out there still need truth and justice, and, indeed, are entitled to truth and justice? What assessment has she made of last week’s “Panorama” programme about the military reaction force and the murders committed by its members?

[Mrs Villiers]

Let me take this opportunity to emphasise how important it is for victims to be at the centre of any proposals on dealing with the past. That was also emphasised during the Democratic Unionist party’s Opposition day debate. The allegations made in the “Panorama” programme have been referred to the police, and it is for the police to investigate them. I should stress that when the troops were operational in Northern Ireland they operated according to strict rules, and that the vast majority of the police and the Army officers who served there during the troubles were entirely courageous, supportive, and compliant with the rule of law.

[Mr Ivan Lewis (Bury South) (Lab)]

May I begin by associating myself with the Secretary of State’s comments about Father Alec Reid?

On the Amnesty report, will the right hon. Lady go further in agreeing with me that the problem with last week’s proposals from Northern Ireland’s Attorney-General is that they would deliver neither truth nor justice, and that instead of healing the wounds of the past, they would cause them to fester even further?

[Mrs Villiers]

The death of Father Alec Reid is a very sad loss. He played a key part in establishing the peace process, particularly in its early stages. As I have said, the Government have no plans to follow the advice of the Northern Ireland Attorney-General. I do not believe that it represents a viable solution to the past, and it received almost universal condemnation. As the hon. Gentleman suggests, it would result in significant problems, and many victims would feel real concern if people advocated that we follow that route.

[Mr Lewis]

Will the Secretary of State assure us that she is working with the Irish Government to engage with all parties involved in the Haass talks to seek a comprehensive framework to address the past? Such a framework needs to deal with truth, justice and reconciliation in a meaningful and substantive way. Tinkering at the edges will be seen as a missed opportunity with potentially lasting consequences, and it is essential that the Secretary of State shows leadership at this crucial time.

[Mrs Villiers]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I am very supportive of the Haass process and very engaged with the Irish Government. I have had discussions with all the political parties on these crucial matters. I have also had a number of helpful discussions in the United States about how our American friends can continue their role of supporting Northern Ireland’s political leadership in the difficult decisions that it needs to make on the issues that are the subject of the Haass process.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

2. What recent discussions she has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on building a shared future in Northern Ireland.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

I have discussed the importance of tackling sectarian divisions and building a shared society with the Northern Ireland Executive on many occasions, most recently with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on 11 November. They both agree on the importance of delivering the commitments set out in their strategy document “Together: Building a United Community”.

[Bob Blackman]

The disturbances over the summer confirmed that there is much work to be done on building a just and fair society in Ulster. What will my right hon. Friend do to ensure that the community relations strategy announced by the Northern Ireland Executive is brought to fruition?

[Mrs Villiers]

We very much welcome the publication of the strategy. It was something that the UK Government had encouraged, and we worked with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on it. When it is delivered, it will make a real difference to starting to heal the sectarian divisions that have been so divisive and corrosive and that can feed the scenes of disgraceful violence in Northern Ireland. The important challenge now is to ensure that the commitments in that strategy are delivered, and the Government will continue to encourage the Northern Ireland Executive to do that.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

If we are to achieve a shared future for Northern Ireland, it is important that the threat of terrorism should be addressed. Is the Secretary of State aware that the dissident republicans’ failed mortar attack at Cullyhanna in south Armagh showed a level of sophistication and technological detail that had never been seen before in Northern Ireland but that has been recorded in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Perhaps that shows international terrorism links. Will she tell us what steps she is taking to eradicate the dissident republican threat in Northern Ireland?

[Mrs Villiers]

I have been briefed on that attack. It and all the others we have seen in recent weeks are a matter of grave concern. The sad fact is that the threat of terrorism from dissident republicans continues to be severe; it has been set at that level since 2009. That is why the Government remain absolutely vigilant and completely supportive of the PSNI and the extra visibility mechanisms that it is deploying in Belfast. We have deployed an extra £200 million in funding to assist the PSNI and its partners in tackling this threat, and we will continue to give them every support.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

On the economic shared future, will the Secretary of State tell me what work is being done on the legacy of this year’s Derry-Londonderry UK city of culture to ensure that the benefits continue to come to the city and to the whole of Northern Ireland?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am confident that there will be a very positive legacy. Interestingly, I am sure that the legacy will be felt on both sides of the border, because this is having a significant impact on areas in the south, too. We are determined that there will be a legacy from successful events such as the city of culture and the G8 meeting. That is one reason why the Prime Minister attended an investment conference a couple of months ago to promote Northern Ireland as a great place to do business, following on from the success of the G8 meeting.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Will the Secretary of State be so kind as to agree to come to my constituency to meet various loyalist communities to discuss their positive contribution to a shared future that we all want to enjoy?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am happy to do that, and I believe that our respective offices are in discussions about a date. It is very important to distinguish between the small minority of extremists within the loyalist community, who might have been responsible for the disgraceful scenes of rioting, and the vast majority, who are committed to peace and want to help to build a shared future for Northern Ireland. The hon. Lady makes the point well.

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

3. What recent discussions she has had with the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland on policing and security issues.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

I hold regular meetings with the Chief Constable of the PSNI, and we speak frequently by phone. We discuss a range of subjects, including police resourcing and the security situation in Northern Ireland.

[Karl MᶜCartney]

My right hon. Friend will be aware that so-called punishment attacks continue to be carried out in Northern Ireland by both loyalist and republican groups. Will she condemn these acts of barbarism and give the House an indication of what the PSNI is doing to counter those criminals who prey on communities across parts of Northern Ireland?

[Mrs Villiers]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend’s condemnation of these brutal attacks. We have seen a number of horrific attacks along these lines: the murder of Kevin Kearney, the attack on Jemma McGrath and, distressingly, an attack on a 15-year-old boy in recent weeks. These vigilante attacks are cowardly, ruthless and callous, and they are utterly unacceptable. I know that the PSNI is doing all it can to bring those responsible to justice.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the despicable terrorist attack on Belfast city centre at the weekend and other recent attacks represent a grave escalation in dissident terrorist activity, in an attempt to undermine investment, jobs and tourists coming to Northern Ireland? Can she give an assurance that she will stand with the people of Northern Ireland and the Executive in their determination to move ahead and not let these people drag us backwards?

[Mrs Villiers]

I can. I will stand shoulder to shoulder with Northern Ireland’s political leadership and the whole community in condemning these attacks and in supporting the determination to continue to make progress in Northern Ireland. These attacks are disgraceful; they could have put many lives at risk, and they are deliberately aimed at disrupting the economy in Northern Ireland and sowing the seeds of community division. I am sure that the people of Northern Ireland will not let the dissidents succeed in their objective of dividing our community.

[Mr Dodds]

I thank the Secretary of State for that assurance. Will she go further and say that she will commit herself to working closely with the Executive, the police and the security forces in Northern Ireland to look at what extra measures can be put in place to increase the operational capacity of the police, and to examine legislative changes that will enhance intelligence gathering for the security forces?

[Mrs Villiers]

I am happy to give the right hon. Gentleman an assurance on both those points. We always look at ways in which the effectiveness of the police can be enhanced. Of course, there is a debate to be had on the Executive’s resourcing of the police in the next spending review. We are working with the police on that, and it is very important.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

What assessment has the Secretary of State made of whether all paramilitary organisations are observing ceasefires? Does she agree that if any are not doing so, they are betraying rather than serving the people they purport to represent?

[Mrs Villiers]

I completely agree, and I think that my hon. Friend puts it very well when he says that paramilitary groups that come off their ceasefire are betraying the communities they purport to represent. My understanding is that, at the moment, no paramilitary organisations have come off their ceasefire, although I am, of course, well aware of the concerns felt about individual members of the Ulster Volunteer Force who are involved in criminality in east Belfast. The police are taking action to counter that.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

Small business Saturday is important throughout the whole of the United Kingdom, but it is especially important in Northern Ireland. Last Friday, business people in Belfast and in Comber told me of their concerns and fears that the planned protests this Saturday will overshadow all the good work of small business Saturday. Will the Secretary of State assure the House that the PSNI will receive the resources and assistance it needs to ensure that positive images are not drowned out by chaotic cacophony from the streets?

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Gentleman puts his point well. We are entirely supportive of the efforts that the police will make to police the protest. I urge everyone involved to ensure that their protest is not only peaceful but entirely lawful and complies with the decision of the Parades Commission. I also call on them to think again about whether this is a wise thing to do. Although it will be disruptive, Belfast will be open for business. Many people will be out in the city centre doing their Christmas shopping despite the protest disruption.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

4. What steps she is taking to reduce worklessness in Northern Ireland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

7. What assessment she has made of the effect of the investment conference held in Belfast in October 2013.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

The investment conference was attended by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and successfully highlighted the many benefits of doing business in Northern Ireland. Although it is too early to assess the full impact, Invest Northern Ireland has said that it is actively engaging with a number of companies as a direct result of the conference.

[Andrew Bridgen]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that Northern Ireland is a fantastic location to do business, as demonstrated by the firms that have already invested there, such as Allstate, HBO and Bombardier? Does she also agree that what would be disastrous for the Northern Irish economy as a location for investment and jobs would be any repeat of the scenes we saw because of the flag protest in the run-up to last Christmas and earlier this year?

[Mrs Villiers]

I agree that there have been tremendous success stories in Northern Ireland in terms of inward investment, including the ones that my hon. Friend has mentioned and others like the New York Stock Exchange. It is true that riots on the streets are a huge deterrent to inward investment and I strongly urge anyone involved in protesting to make sure that their protests are both peaceful and entirely lawful.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Will the Secretary of State agree with me that we need to see more conferences of this type? It was successful; investment will come from it. But will she also agree that the companies that attended it were impressed by the skills base in Northern Ireland and the innovation shown by companies?

[Mrs Villiers]

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. The education system in Northern Ireland produces some tremendous results. Its two universities are producing thousands of excellent graduates every year. That is one of the reasons why companies investing in Northern Ireland are so successful. They may come for the low cost base but they stay for the people.

The Prime Minister was asked—

Northern Ireland

Theresa Villiers Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

I thank the Democratic Unionist party for giving the House the opportunity to discuss matters of such great significance not only for Northern Ireland but for the whole United Kingdom. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) on a passionate and moving speech on Northern Ireland’s troubled past.

As the right hon. Gentleman reminded the House, and as we heard in Prime Minister’s questions, the debate coincides with the anniversary of one of the most appalling atrocities of Northern Ireland’s past: the Shankill bomb, which had the tragic consequences set out by the right hon. Gentleman. In the days following the attack, my predecessor as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, my noble Friend Lord Mayhew, spoke in the House of the revulsion that people felt at such a hideous and atrocious attack on people going about their business on that Saturday morning 20 years ago.

I echo those sentiments today, and repeat the long-standing position of this and previous Governments that politically motivated violence, from wherever it came, was never justified. The Government will not condone attempts to glorify or legitimise acts of terrorism. We will never treat the men and women of the police and the Army who acted with such courage and self-sacrifice in upholding the rule of law as equivalent to those who used terrorism to try to further their political ends.

My noble Friend Lord Mayhew, in concluding his statement to the House on the Shankill bomb, reaffirmed:

“In this democracy, it is only through dialogue—dialogue between those who unequivocally reject the use or threat of violence—that the foundation will in the end be found for a fair and hence a lasting peace.”—[Official Report, 25 October 1993; Vol. 230, c. 578.]

Thankfully, over the ensuing years, that dialogue did go forward, beginning with the 1993 Downing street declaration and continuing with the 1998 Belfast agreement and its successors, and the basis was found for the relative peace and stability that Northern Ireland enjoys today.

Twenty years on from the Shankill bomb, Northern Ireland has its own inclusive, devolved Administration. Whatever the imperfections of the devolved institutions, they are a vast improvement on what went before. Relations within these islands—both between north and south, and between London and Dublin—have never been stronger, with both Governments determined to work closely together on the economic and other challenges our two countries face. The main paramilitary campaigns that led to more than 3,500 lost lives and such widespread and tragic suffering, which we have heard about this afternoon, have come to an end. Lethal though they are, the people who continue to seek to pursue their aims through violence are small in number and enjoy almost no public support whatever.

The transformation that has taken place over the past 15 years is a great testimony to the leadership and courage shown by so many of Northern Ireland’s political leaders, a number of whom are in the Chamber. It also vividly demonstrates the power of dialogue as a means of dealing with problems that were previously viewed as intractable. Yet, for all the progress, there is no doubt that the legacy of the past continues to cast a shadow and have an impact on today’s Northern Ireland. I see that whenever I meet victims of terrorism, as I did, for example, in Castlederg just a few weeks ago. I also see it when I meet those who believe that the unjustified actions of the state robbed them of their loved ones. All of them have highly personal tales of tragedy, and it is impossible not to be moved by their stories.

It is therefore not surprising that there are calls from a number of quarters in Northern Ireland for a mechanism or process to be initiated to deal with the past and grapple with the questions outlined today by the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley. I agree with him that, in taking forward that process, we must put the needs of victims at its heart. He is right to look at the options that involve enabling victims to tell their stories, so that the facts of what happened to them are on record and never forgotten.

Numerous attempts have been made in the 15 years since the 1998 agreement to come up with a so-called overarching process on the past. In 2008, the previous Government established the consultative group on the past under the chairmanship of Lord Eames and Denis Bradley. On coming to office, my predecessor as Secretary of State published a summary of the responses to Eames-Bradley and embarked on an extensive round of meetings with Northern Ireland’s political parties, victims groups and other interested bodies. Since becoming Secretary of State just over a year ago, I have had wide-ranging discussions on the subject both within Northern Ireland and with the Irish Government.

However, so far, none of the initiatives by either the previous Government or the current one has succeeded in establishing a consensus on how best to take things forward. That is certainly not to say that nothing is happening on the past—far from it. As well as a host of local and oral history projects and the tireless work by the voluntary sector in supporting victims, there are initiatives such as the CAIN archive at the university of Ulster, the renowned collection at the Linen Hall library, and thousands of hours of historical footage held by the BBC and Ulster Television. In fact, given the wealth of archive material available, Northern Ireland’s troubles are probably one of the most comprehensively recorded and documented periods in history.

For our part, the Government are committed to accelerating the release of state papers, so we are moving from the 30-year rule to a 20-year rule, although this will always have to be done in a way that is sensitive to the article 2 rights of all parties and to national security considerations. We are working with the Irish Government on the decade of centenaries that is now under way. Both Governments want to use the forthcoming anniversaries to promote mutual respect and understanding between different traditions, and to prevent them from being exploited by those intent on causing division and conflict. We continue to support the work being done in the devolved sphere, for example by the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland, the Historical Enquiries Team and the Victims’ Commissioner. The Government have been fully prepared to apologise where the state has failed to uphold the highest standards of conduct. That has been done in the cases of Claudy, Patrick Finucane and, of course, Bloody Sunday, where the Prime Minister acknowledged to the House in the frankest of terms that what happened that day in Londonderry in 1972 was “unjustified and unjustifiable.”

There is no doubt that some want a broader initiative, a so-called “overarching” process, and they have asked the Government to deliver it. I understand that, and of course the UK Government are prepared to play their part in dealing with legacy issues, but I am also very clear that we do not own the past. The reality is that for any process to succeed it must command a substantial consensus among the Northern Ireland political parties and across the wider community.

The Government strongly welcome the initiative by the five parties in the Northern Ireland Executive to begin to take local ownership of this issue through the establishment of the Richard Haass working group on flags, emblems, parades and the past. While not formally part of this group, the Government are fully engaged with it. I and my officials have had a number of meetings and discussions with Dr Haass and his team, and I am seeing him again next week. Last Thursday, Dr Haass had talks in Downing street where he met the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister, who gave their full backing to the crucial task that Dr Haass has undertaken. It is clear that the Haass talks are dealing with some of Northern Ireland’s most difficult and long-standing fault lines and there is no guarantee of success, but I believe that there is a genuine willingness on the part of Northern Ireland’s political leadership to make progress. From my discussions with Dr Haass, I believe that there is no better person to help achieve that. With 12 months of protests and tensions around flags and parades, it is essential that progress is made.

While the focus of today’s short debate is about dealing with the past, it is also important that we do not lose sight of the overriding need to build a better future for everyone in Northern Ireland. That is particularly true on the economy and on building a shared society that is no longer blighted by the sectarian divisions that have caused so much damage over the years, both areas on which the Government are working very closely with the Executive. As I have made clear, progress cannot await the outcome of the Haass talks; it is vital that momentum is maintained. On the economy, there are now clear signs that, like the rest of the UK, Northern Ireland is turning a corner, with business activity growing, unemployment falling, the property market stabilising and construction finally starting to pick up after the disastrous crash experienced under the previous Government.

There is much more that needs to be done, which is why the Government and the Executive are pressing ahead with implementing the economic package we signed in Downing street in June, and on which we jointly published an update a fortnight ago. As part of that package, the Prime Minister and I attended a highly successful international investment conference at Titanic Belfast, where senior business figures from across the world were shown just what a great place Northern Ireland is in which to invest and to grow a business.

On addressing community divisions, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and I have repeatedly pressed for progress. We therefore warmly welcomed the community relations initiative by the First Minister and Deputy First Minister, with the publication of “Together: Building a United Community” in May. It was a significant moment last week when the First Minister of Northern Ireland broke new ground for a Unionist leader in addressing a Gaelic Athletic Association event. As the First Minister himself pointed out, this would have been unthinkable a few years ago and is another sign that Northern Ireland is moving forward.

In conclusion, I would like to echo the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley in paying a warm tribute to the members of the police, the prison service and the armed forces who served with such distinction, valour and courage in defending and upholding the rule of law, defending democracy and protecting the community in Northern Ireland. This is a welcome opportunity to reiterate the thanks of this House for all they did during the troubles and to reiterate the thanks to all those who currently defend the community in the security forces in Northern Ireland.

[Lady Hermon]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for allowing me to intervene. I have waited patiently for the Secretary of State to put on record the Government’s deep and sincere appreciation of the members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary George Cross—not just within the general title of the police, but the RUC George Cross, which made an enormous sacrifice: 302 murdered police officers, men and women. Too often, this House lets the opportunity go past without putting on the record the debt of gratitude we owe the RUC, particularly the families of those who stood by them and those who did not come home.

[Mrs Villiers]

I am only too happy to put on record once again the support and tribute to the members of the RUC and their families, who suffered greatly at the hands of terrorists during the troubles, and to their successors in the PSNI, who even today are subject to repeated targeting by the terrorists who still operate in Northern Ireland.

[Kate Hoey]

Will the Secretary of State tell us what her view is on the recent announcement that the PSNI will try to persecute and prosecute some of the soldiers involved in the terrible incidents of Bloody Sunday so many years ago? Does she think that this is a way of moving forward? Does she not realise that this is making one side of the community feel, when they cannot even get an inquiry into Omagh, that there is not even-handedness?

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[Mrs Villiers]

In the Prime Minister’s statement on Bloody Sunday, he reiterated very clearly that the vast majority of those who served in Northern Ireland, whether in the Army or the RUC, served with distinction, integrity, courage and valour. He also said, however, that one does not defend the British Army by defending the indefensible. What happened in Londonderry in 1972 was indefensible. Whether that will lead to criminal prosecutions is a matter for the police and the prosecution authorities in Northern Ireland. It is not a matter for politicians to intervene in. I am sure that great care will be taken in deciding whether it is appropriate for a prosecution to go forward in relation to what happened on that day.

[Ms Ritchie]

I emphasise that murder was and is always wrong, and that terrorism was and is always wrong. In so doing, and to bring some relief to the victims, may I ask the Secretary of State if she would consider immediate discussions with the Secretary of State for Defence to ensure that the files held in Derbyshire are released to the Historical Enquiries Team for its investigation? That would bring relief right across Northern Ireland in terms of all the unsolved cases.

[Mrs Villiers]

I am certainly happy to have a conversation with the Secretary of State for Defence on that matter, which the hon. Lady has raised on a number of occasions. I reiterate, however, that the need for transparency always has to be tempered against the need to protect people who might come under threat if their names were disclosed, and to take account of national security interests.

In her historic speech during her visit to Ireland and Dublin castle in 2011, Her Majesty the Queen spoke of being able to bow to the past, but not be bound by it. It is impossible to be involved in Northern Ireland and not be aware of the power of the past to affect current events, but we know that with the same kind of leadership and courage shown over recent years, the people of Northern Ireland can build a prosperous and united future together. Working with them, that is what the Government are resolutely determined to achieve.

[Mr Ivan Lewis (Bury South) (Lab)]

I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to the debate on behalf of the official Opposition. Hon. Members will agree that we do not get the chance to discuss Northern Ireland often enough on the Floor of the House, so I thank the Democratic Unionist party for giving us this opportunity and the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) for his opening statement. I know that for him this is not only politically important, but personally extremely salient, because of the losses that he and his family suffered as a result of the troubles.

I also acknowledge the work of Northern Ireland Members who have dealt with these sensitive and complicated issues from the perspective of the friends, neighbours and families of those killed and injured. Their work, alongside voluntary organisations in Northern Ireland such as the Commission for Victims and Survivors, led by Kathryn Stone, provides crucial and unwavering support for the families of victims. As the right hon. Gentleman and the Secretary of State said, it is also important to acknowledge that today is the 20th anniversary of the appalling Shankill road bombing and horrendous loss of life. We should also remember the awful events at Greysteel the subsequent week.

The debate comes at a crucial time in the aftermath of recent concerning disturbances, and in the midst of the Haass talks, in which all the parties in Northern Ireland have agreed to participate. I have been in this role for only 15 days, so I have no intention of presenting myself as an expert on Northern Ireland, but I promise to listen and learn, and then to provide leadership on issues on which I believe that the Opposition can help to make a positive difference. Over the weekend, I had the opportunity to visit Northern Ireland for the first time in my new role. In the past fortnight, I have met the First Minister and Deputy First Minister, and many of the Northern Ireland MPs here at Westminster, and attended meetings with Members of the Legislative Assembly, business people and community organisations. I have met people whose sense of place and belonging, and connection to family and community, shines through. I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude for the guidance and support that I have received during the transition into my new role.

Notwithstanding the many remaining challenges, Northern Ireland has been transformed over the past two decades by the peace process. My party played an important role in making that process possible, and I am aware of the many people in the House who have shown tremendous leadership by supporting that process through the good times and the bad. Irrespective of the many continued challenges, we have a shared interest and responsibility to ensure that Northern Ireland continues on its journey to build peace, fairness and prosperity.

Make no mistake: on the whole, Northern Ireland is on the up. Most recently, we saw the successful investment conference in Belfast, and in 2013 alone, Northern Ireland has hosted some of the most important global political, cultural and sporting events. The G8 summit was held in the beautiful surroundings of Lough Erne, while the 10-day world police and fire games, the third-largest sporting event in the world, which attracted competitors and supporters from around the globe, was hosted in Belfast for the first time. Moreover, Derry-Londonderry was designated the UK’s inaugural city of culture. Northern Ireland is in the spotlight for all the right reasons and is taking its rightful place on the world stage.

Despite that remarkable progress, however, significant challenges remain and we cannot afford to be complacent. The disgraceful scenes of rioting that we witnessed over flags in the early part of the year and over parades in the summer, and the terrible murders of two weeks ago, are a reminder that deep wounds still exist and that the legacy of the past continues to afflict communities in Northern Ireland. In that context, it is important that we pay tribute to the courageous work of the men and women of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, who do such an important job on the front line.

As others have said, violence can never be condoned. It is unacceptable and should be condemned by politicians from all parties and all community leaders. We have welcomed the all-party Haass talks as a crucial opportunity to address the contentious issues of flags, parades and the past. It is essential that these talks lead to meaningful progress and action that has the confidence of the vast majority in all communities. That will require not only courageous and visionary political leadership from Northern Irish politicians, but the active and consistent engagement of the UK and Irish Governments. It therefore remains a source of serious concern that too many people in Northern Ireland feel that the present UK Government are insufficiently engaged. Engagement is essential, given the need for recognition of the responsibility the UK Government have for their role in the troubles and of the reality that any process to deal with the past will have financial and legislative implications that, ultimately, will require their support.

[Mrs Villiers]

The hon. Gentleman repeatedly makes the allegation of disengagement, which is very far from the truth, as I outlined in my speech and at Northern Ireland questions. If he is concerned about disengagement, is he concerned about Opposition Front Benchers, given that his predecessor, the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), was barely seen in Northern Ireland during what was a very difficult parading season?

[Mr Lewis]

I have made it clear to the right hon. Lady that when we agree with the Government on security issues, we will continue to operate on a bipartisan basis—that is how we should work in the context of Northern Ireland. As an old boss of mine once said, however, perception is reality, and if many politicians and others active in Northern Ireland believe that there is insufficient engagement from the Government, it might just be, with respect, that they are telling the truth. As for her comments about my predecessor, there are very few politicians who, when they leave a job, receive such widespread acclaim—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] That acclaim came from all political parties that are doing their best to make a difference in Northern Ireland, so her criticisms of him were not worthy of her.

[Mrs Villiers]

My concern is about perceptions and reality. If the hon. Gentleman believes that the Government are disengaged, I am surprised that he took the trouble to point out two great successes for Northern Ireland—the G8 conference in Fermanagh and the recent investment conference—that would not have happened without the close engagement of the UK Government.

[Mr Lewis]

With respect, I have been in this job for only about 13 or 14 days, but the majority of politicians I have met in Northern Ireland feel that there is inadequate engagement from the Government on a range of issues. It is not just about turning up at the high-profile events. Of course, the fact that the Prime Minister attended the recent investment conference was incredibly important, but this is about rolling one’s sleeves up and working, on an ongoing basis, on a range of issues, so that people feel that one has a passion for and a commitment to the challenges facing Northern Ireland.

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[Mr Lewis]

I thank the hon. Gentleman; I could not have put it better myself. The “hear, hears” we heard earlier demonstrated that his view is echoed by almost every Member who had the privilege of working with my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker).

[Mrs Villiers]

rose—

[Mr Lewis]

I will give way one final time, on this point, to the Secretary of State.

[Mrs Villiers]

It is simply not true that the Prime Minister’s involvement in Northern Ireland consists only of his turning up at a few high-profile events. A huge amount of planning went into delivering the G8 summit, and it is this Prime Minister who has delivered a wide-ranging economic pact that enables us to work with the Northern Ireland Executive in an unprecedented way to deliver a more prosperous future for Northern Ireland.

[Mr Lewis]

The best thing I can do at this stage is to move on with my contribution. The right hon. Lady should reflect on how many people in Northern Ireland feel, and think about the implication of those feelings.

Engagement is essential because any process that deals with the past will involve financial and legislative implications requiring the support of the UK Government. I want to highlight an initial view of the principles that we believe should apply to any credible process seeking to deal with the past. First, as the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley said, any process must put victims and their families centre stage, while recognising that they will have different views and needs—I have learned that during my first couple of weeks in the role. One of the most powerful meetings I had during my visit to Belfast was with representatives of the families of victims who disappeared during the troubles—they have been described as “the disappeared”. As a result of the peace process, the families I met have had their loved ones returned and have been able to lay them to rest. They told me of not only their pain and trauma, but their desire not to pursue further action against those responsible. However, I am acutely aware that some families have still not experienced similar closure and that others may feel very differently about those responsible. I intend to meet and hear directly from victims and survivors from all backgrounds, as well as from their families and those who care for them. Their stories deserve to be heard and listened to, and their experiences need to be respected, as the right hon. Gentleman said.

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[Mrs Villiers]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I join others in congratulating you on your new role. I also thank all Members for their contributions. It has been a very good and, at times, extremely moving debate, and I echo the praise of the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) for the number of the contributions. We all in the House should pay particular tribute to political representatives and MPs in Northern Ireland who were prepared, courageously, to put their heads above the parapet during the troubles. It is an honour to have them in the House and to hear directly from them, who lived through these events, about their experiences.

A theme that has pervaded the whole debate is our profound sympathy for all those who suffered in Northern Ireland’s troubles. We have heard some desperately sad stories, and I am sure I speak for the whole House in again offering our condolences and sympathies to those who were injured, to those who lost loved ones and to those whose injuries might not be visible or physical, but are none the less deep-seated. It is a privilege to have the opportunity, thanks to the DUP, to debate these matters in the House.

The second thing common to almost every speech was a profound and sincere tribute to the men and women of the armed forces and police, particularly the Ulster Defence Regiment and the RUC, for all they did in upholding the rule of law and protecting the community in Northern Ireland, despite huge personal risk to themselves. Of course, many of them made the ultimate sacrifice.

Too many points were made in the debate for me to cover them in the short time available. The hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) expressed his concern about pubic inquiries, and certainly the Government have also expressed their scepticism about public inquiries as a means to deal with the past. In particular, it simply is not possible for each of those 3,500 victims to have their own public inquiry, which means that those we have are uneven and can divide opinion. Several other speakers, including the hon. Member for Vauxhall, raised that potentially uneven approach. She was also concerned about so-called Government neutrality. I can assure her that the Government are not neutral on the Union, but are fully supportive of Northern Ireland’s place within it. It was the previous Government who professed neutrality on the Union.

On the comments from the hon. Member for Bury South (Mr Lewis), yes we had a little episode of non-bipartisanship, but there will always be areas in which the Front Benches work together—that has always been the case—and I welcome his reiteration of that this afternoon. As he said, we have a shared responsibility to do all we can to help Northern Ireland make progress. Crucially, I can provide the warmest of assurances that the Government remain determinedly engaged in Northern Ireland matters, as was seen not least in the Prime Minister’s bringing eight of the world’s most powerful leaders to a summit in County Fermanagh as a means of demonstrating what a fabulous place Northern Ireland is and how much affection he has for it.

[Lady Hermon]

Picking up on the comments and criticisms made by the shadow Secretary of State, I say very gently to the right hon. Lady that the perception in Northern Ireland is of a polite disengagement by the Government. If 54 police officers had been injured in rioting in Manchester or Birmingham, Cardiff or Bristol during the summer, the Home Secretary would have gone there, and it would have been equally nice and appropriate had she gone to Northern Ireland and said to the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister, “We support you all the way.” That is just one example of what I regard as polite disengagement. Will the Secretary of State address that concern?

[Mrs Villiers]

I assure the hon. Lady that I was fully engaged throughout this summer. I was in Northern Ireland for much of it, and I kept in close touch with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister because of my grave concerns about what was going on. I assure her that I was the first very publicly to condemn the violence and the attacks on police officers, which were absolutely unacceptable. I will continue to call on all to ensure that they comply with the determinations of the Parades Commission, that they respect the rule of law and that these disgraceful attacks on police officers are not repeated.

My hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), the Chairman of the Select Committee, was right to focus on the future. Like other hon. Members, he expressed concern about the parading system and the violence we have seen. He was right to emphasise that hundreds of parades take place in Northern Ireland every year that are entirely peaceful, but it is important to point out that not only were the attacks we saw on police officers unacceptable, but they do huge economic damage to Northern Ireland because of their impact around the world. That is an important reason why I hope we will see a resolution of the current situation in north Belfast. It is a concern to have a protest camp and nightly parades so close to a very volatile interface, and I hope that local conversations can take place to try to find a way to resolve the situation.

The hon. Member for Bury South and my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury made a number of points about the importance of going forward with educational improvements. We heard an exchange about whether integrated education was the way forward. I am sure that all in this House recognise the importance of ensuring that children in Northern Ireland have the chance to learn alongside others, whether that is through shared education or integrated education.

The hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) started his contribution by emphasising that it is vital to learn from the past, and I fully agree with him. Like him, this Government will not accept attempts to rewrite the history of the troubles. As many hon. Members have done today, he called for any process to have the victims of the troubles at its heart.

My hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) paid tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning) for the excellent work he did as Minister of State. He also told us of the poignant and moving meetings he had with victims, including those of the horrendous Kingsmill massacre. Like others, he paid tribute to the armed forces, doing so as a Member of Parliament for a constituency with a proud naval tradition. The hon. Member for Upper Bann, too, talked about the importance of education and skills in building a successful future in Northern Ireland. I firmly agree with that and I am sure that the Northern Ireland Executive, who have responsibility for education now, do as well.

The hon. Member for Belfast South (Dr McDonnell) spoke frankly about his party’s position on naming places after those responsible for previous violence, and it was welcome that he was able to clarify that. I share his call for a move towards a truly reconciled society. I am sure that everyone in the House will agree with calls made by him and by many others for all the political parties to approach the Haass process with the determination to give courageous leadership and to make progress. He also spoke, as others did, about the Eames-Bradley report. That proved quite divisive when it was published, but no doubt Dr Haass and others will seek to look at aspects of that report to see whether any of them are appropriate in terms of the outcome of the work that is undertaken by the Haass process.

My hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd) was right to focus on the complexity of this issue and the fact that there are no easy answers. It is of grave concern that so many victims are still seeking the truth and still feel that they have not had justice. He also talked about whether lessons could be learned from the Eames-Bradley report as part of the process that is now going forward.

The hon. Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea) spoke movingly about his experiences, and I wish to pay tribute to all the work that he has done in Northern Ireland on behalf of his constituents. They could not possibly have a more resolute defender of their interests, and I know that he and his family have personally suffered as a result of the terrorist campaigns in Northern Ireland. This House owes him a great debt of gratitude for all that he has done for his constituents. The hon. Gentleman said that, in his view, there was a need for an apology from the Government of the Republic of Ireland. I hope that he will welcome, as I did, the speech made recently by the Tánaiste, Eamon Gilmore, at the British-Irish Association conference, in which he acknowledged the concerns and the perceptions around the way in which his Government had occasionally approached the troubles. That was a welcome speech, and an important step forward by the Tánaiste.

The hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) spoke with great determination and passion, and repudiated any suggestion that the troubles amounted to a just war. He was right to emphasise how important it had been to start this debate with a list of names being read out by the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley. It is crucial, in this debate and in the Richard Haass process, that we remember that this is about individuals, each with their own story of tragedy. Hearing their names was an entirely appropriate way in which to commence what has been an excellent debate.

We have heard much about the past this afternoon, but a number of people have also called for a determination to move forward and build a better future for Northern Ireland. Much is being done to improve the economy, and important work is under way to address sectarian divisions and build the genuinely united community that we all want to see. The Executive, the political leadership and the people of Northern Ireland all have the full support of the UK Government in taking that important work forward.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House notes the ongoing discussions in Northern Ireland chaired by Dr Richard Haass on a number of important issues including the legacy of the Troubles; recognises the deep sense of loss still felt by the innocent victims of violence and their continuing quest for truth and justice; acknowledges the valour and sacrifice of the men and women who served and continue to serve in the armed forces, the police and the prison service in Northern Ireland; and is resolved to ensure that those who engaged in or supported acts of terrorism will not succeed in rewriting the narrative of this troubled period in Northern Ireland’s history.