Oral Answers to Questions
Stephanie Peacock Excerpts(2 months ago)
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Louise Jones (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stephanie Peacock)
This Government are committed to providing high-quality, inclusive facilities that provide opportunities for everyone to get active and healthier. That is why we are investing £123 million across the UK in our multi-sport grassroots facilities programme.
Louise Jones
Access to those facilities is vital for mental health and community cohesion, no more so than in the small towns and villages that make up my constituency. Does the Minister agree that even in places like that we must have equal access to such facilities?
Stephanie Peacock
I completely agree with my hon. Friend. I was pleased to visit her constituency a few months ago; I represent a similar area, with a collection of towns and villages. Wherever communities are, across the country, we want to ensure they have access to local facilities. It is so important to get people active, particularly for mental health and wellbeing.
Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)
The Minister will know that grassroots sports venues play a key role in improving the nation’s health. The UK will host the T20 women’s world cup in 2026, and cricket will join the Olympic family of sports in 2028. The previous Government committed a £35 million investment into 16 grassroots cricket hubs and cricket domes. Will the Minister commit this Government to fulfilling that promise?
Stephanie Peacock
I am grateful to the Chair of the Select Committee for her important question. I was pleased to meet the England and Wales Cricket Board a few weeks ago, and I will be doing a visit with its representatives in my own constituency tomorrow. We absolutely see the benefit of cricket and, indeed, all sports across the country, but I am obviously not in a position to make spending commitments ahead of the spending review.
Tom Gordon (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (LD)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stephanie Peacock)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. As I set out in a previous answer, the Government are investing £123 million through football partners in grassroots facilities up and down the country.
Tom Gordon
I recently visited Knaresborough Town AFC in my constituency and met fantastic people who do more than just football. They share the club’s facilities with groups such as Rainbow Care, which provides a lifeline to other people, not just those interested in football. Due to the weather, the pitch is often waterlogged, and there is a lack of 3G pitches in the area. Will the Minister meet me to talk about how we can do more to support Knaresborough Town and, hopefully, get a pitch down the line?
Stephanie Peacock
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. I am pleased to hear that he visited his local club, and I would be delighted to meet him. Ahead of that meeting, though, I will ask my officials to link him up with the Football Foundation, which supports grassroots communities to get new pitches. I pay tribute to all the volunteers to whom he refers for their fantastic work in the community.
Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) (Lab)
Blyth Spartans in my constituency are arguably the most famous non-league club in the UK, but they are now up for sale, with the current chairman failing to deliver on his promises and to engage transparently and openly with the supporters. Does my hon. Friend agree that non-league football clubs are at the heart of communities and that engagement with supporters is critical to their survival?
Stephanie Peacock
I am incredibly grateful to my hon. Friend for his question, and I completely agree. Now that he has put it in Hansard, perhaps Blyth Spartans are the most well-known club in the country. I echo his comments about fan involvement at every level of the football pyramid and, indeed, in grassroots football.
Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)
From grassroots to professional, the number of women’s teams has more than doubled over the past seven years. Cheltenham Town Women have a thriving team, with junior and adult sections. Sadly, one place above them in the table this season are Lewes FC, who are running the “Equal FA Cup” campaign. Does the Minister agree that it is time for equality of prize money across the men’s and women’s FA cups?
Stephanie Peacock
I am incredibly grateful to the hon. Gentleman for asking such an important question. The Government are fully committed to supporting and growing women’s sport, and to ensuring that it is on an equal footing with men’s sport. The ambition to have equal prize money across sport, where possible, is absolutely right. I know that the Football Association took steps last season to double the prize fund for the women’s FA cup, and we will pay close attention to see what happens next.
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)
Connor Naismith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stephanie Peacock)
Grassroots sports clubs are at the heart of communities up and down the country. We know just how important they are, which is why we are committed to continuing to support high-quality, inclusive facilities to get people more active.
Connor Naismith
Crewe and Nantwich athletic club, which celebrated its 50th anniversary this year, is home to the only competitive-standard athletics track in south Cheshire. However, the track is in desperate need of improvements so that the club can continue to flourish and support the young people who use its facilities. Will the Minister meet me to discuss what support might be available to deliver those crucial improvements?
Stephanie Peacock
I thank my hon. Friend for his important question and congratulate Crewe and Nantwich athletic club on half a century—what a great achievement! Such sports clubs are crucial to helping our young people to pursue their sporting passions. I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the matter, but in the meantime I will ask my Department to link the club up with England Athletics and other bodies for further discussion of the support available.
Yuan Yang (Earley and Woodley) (Lab)
Peter Prinsley (Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stephanie Peacock)
I thank my hon. Friend for his important question. I congratulate the cyclists on completing their fantastic ride and on the impressive sum of money that they raised. I pay particular tribute to Austin Cornish, the organiser of the ride, whose father died in that crash.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
Women are those most often criminalised for non-payment of the licence fee. The BBC charter review offers an opportunity for the Government to look at this issue again. Will the Government consider decriminalising non-payment of the licence fee?
Harpreet Uppal (Huddersfield) (Lab)
Stephanie Peacock
We know just how important the work of the Rugby Football League is in communities —I have seen it at first hand, as I know you have, Mr Speaker. It is one of the reasons the RFL has received just under £1 million in funding from Sport England over the past financial year to help tackle inequalities and improve access. I look forward to working with the sport in the months and years ahead.
Sport: Team GB and ParalympicsGB
Stephanie Peacock Excerpts(2 months, 1 week ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stephanie Peacock)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered sport and the performance of Team GB and ParalympicsGB in 2024.
This Government could not be prouder of the performance of our Olympians and Paralympians at the Paris 2024 games. All our British athletes who participated this summer have done something quite amazing on a global stage. While many won medals, they have all inspired the nation. Team GB brought home 65 medals—the third highest haul of all time, one more than the number won in Tokyo, and equal to the number won at London 2012. ParalympicsGB finished second in the medal table, winning medals across 18 of the 19 sports that the team competed in, still the highest of any nation ever.
The breadth and depth of Team GB’s success was amazing. There were so many incredible moments: Tom Pidcock’s recovery from a puncture to take gold in the mountain biking, Alex Yee’s sprint finish to snatch gold in the men’s triathlon, and Keely Hodgkinson storming to gold on the track in the 800 metres, to name but a few. Barnsley’s own Becky Moody also brought home a bronze as part of the Team GB dressage team.
As Sports Minister, I had the privilege of visiting Paris for the Olympics and Paralympics. It was great to cheer on Team GB road cyclists and swimmers at the Olympics as well as to visit the Olympic village and see exactly how our athletes are supported throughout their Olympic experience. At the Paralympics, it was brilliant to see Maisie Summers-Newton bring home a gold in the 200 metre medley, and I was absolutely gripped by the wheelchair tennis, where I was lucky to see both Andy Lapthorne and Greg Slade win their singles matches. I thank those at Team GB and ParalympicsGB who hosted me, Nick Webborn, Dave Clarke, Andy Anson and a former Member of this House, Sir Hugh Robertson, and of course Sally Munday and Dame Katherine Grainger and everyone at UK Sport.
I cannot begin to imagine the thousands of hours of training, recovery, competition and qualifying that preceded Paris. I do, however, understand the importance of this Government continuing to support our elite athletes. Indeed, I know how important funding directed through UK Sport is to their success and preparation, and how the British Olympic Association and ParalympicsGB ensure that in the final stretch our athletes continue to be some of the best supported to do their best when the medal moment comes.
In terms of Team GB’s success, since 1896, when the modern Olympic games first took place in Athens, British and Northern Irish athletes have competed at every Olympic games.
Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
I absolutely support the work that this Government and previous Governments have done to support elite athletes in the Olympics and in other ways; it is incredibly important. Does my hon. Friend agree that the inspirational work done by our Olympians motivates a whole generation of new people to get into sport, and supporting elite sport is a tremendously important way of driving up participation?
Stephanie Peacock
My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I will address that point shortly.
Team GB has been in the top seven in the Olympics since 2008, and ParalympicsGB has also achieved top three finishes in every Paralympic games since 2000. It is a remarkable record of achievement, and one that truly cements success into our sporting culture. We have not always had the same success in the medal table, and Team GB has come a long way since Atlanta 1996, when they left with a single gold medal. But thanks to National Lottery and UK Sport funding, we have transformed our fortunes. Indeed, UK Sport has invested £385 million of Exchequer and Lottery funds into success at the Paris Olympics and Paralympics. The Government recognise the vital importance of this funding continuing to support the opportunity for all our talented athletes to succeed, which is why we are fully committed to multi-year funding for our elite sport system to enable our athletes to excel on the world stage. This means supporting them financially to match and build on their success in Paris as we look forward to LA 2028.
We have also seen the great development of the ChangeMakers initiative, which aims to help athletes maximise their impact on their return from Paris 2024 and give back to the local communities that have supported them. Athletes can choose the social impact projects they wish to support, which could be anything from grassroots sports projects to mental health initiatives—whatever causes they are passionate about—demonstrating how major events transform the lives not only of athletes, but of everyday people across our nation.
That is because, at a basic level, this Government want people to get more active, and we want to ensure that sport is open to everyone. Major sporting events present an opportunity to inspire the nation to get active. Indeed, nearly two thirds of British people say they are inspired by the success of our Olympic and Paralympic teams.
Natasha Irons (Croydon East) (Lab)
I could not associate myself more closely with my hon. Friend’s comments. I declare an interest: I had the privilege of working at Channel 4 before joining Parliament. With 7.3 billion minutes viewed, Channel 4’s coverage of the Paralympics was its biggest ever. The growth of para sport is not just an exciting opportunity for British sport, but a great opportunity to make sport more accessible to everyone. Does the Minister agree that this commitment to the Paralympics should leave a lasting legacy that ensures disabled people across the country have access to physical activity?
Stephanie Peacock
My hon. Friend makes an incredibly important point, which I support. When the Secretary of State was at the Paralympics, shortly after I had attended, she attended an event where she spoke about getting disabled young people more active in sport.
The benefits to public health from everyone being active are well known, whether that is supporting mental health or managing long-term conditions. For example, physical activity directly prevents 900,000 cases of diabetes and 93,000 cases of dementia each year. That is why it is important to have high-quality, inclusive grassroots facilities to help ensure that everyone has access to sport. The Government have committed to continue the multi-sport grassroots facilities programme, which will invest £123 million across the UK this year. I saw at first hand the impact of that funding in my first visit as Sports Minister to Derby racecourse’s new state-of-the-art hub. I have also seen it my own area of Barnsley, whether it is the Houghton Main miners welfare ground, the Wombwell recreation ground playing fields or the new Parkside facility in Hoyland, which will see spades in the ground this weekend. I am looking forward to visiting. I know the difference that programme has made and will make to local communities.
As a former teacher, I understand the importance of sport and physical activity for children. A recent Youth Sport Trust survey found that 87% of schools considered sport to make a positive contribution to achievement. We are committed to protecting time for physical education, and the Department for Education’s upcoming review of the curriculum will ensure that no child misses out on a broad range of subjects, including PE and sport. The advantages of sport and physical activity are clear for all to see.
Jonathan Davies (Mid Derbyshire) (Lab)
Does my hon. Friend share my concern that some 20% of children in Derbyshire are deemed to be overweight? We must make sure that the benefits of elite sport filter down to schools across the country.
Stephanie Peacock
I share that concern. In my constituency in the borough of Barnsley, 34% of children are inactive. Obesity and inactivity are an important challenge that we need to tackle, and sport is central to that. We know that sport improves our health and life chances. It protects us against many chronic conditions, such as coronary heart disease, obesity and type 2 diabetes. Some 65% of schools consider sport to make a positive contribution to attainment. It is also a fantastic enabler of growth, contributing 1.25 million jobs and £53.6 billion of direct gross value added to the economy. We also know that it benefits society and communities. For example, sports-based early intervention initiatives consistently report that more than 70% of participants have reduced offending and antisocial behaviour. Grassroots sport directly contributes to preventing 10,000 incidents of crime.
It is therefore a pleasure to be debating sport today in this Chamber following our brilliant Olympic success. We all remember the success of London 2012, and I know that many of today’s Olympians spoke of that summer as being formative to their aspirations. One of the greatest political champions of the London 2012 games was the late, great Dame Tessa Jowell, alongside one of my predecessors as Sports Minister and former fellow Yorkshire MP, Richard Caborn. As he highlights in his book, some people say that politics should stay out of sport, but major sporting events are inseparably grounded in politics, and I am proud that it was a Labour Government who secured London 2012. This Labour Government will take forward that the legacy, supporting the next generation of athletes as we look to LA 2028 and building on our successful record of hosting major sporting events as we host the women’s rugby world cup in 2025 and the Euros in 2028. We will support grassroots sport so that everyone, whatever their background or postcode, can take part in the sports they love.
Paris 2024 Olympics: Team GB Legacy
Stephanie Peacock Excerpts(3 months, 2 weeks ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stephanie Peacock)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I of course congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) on securing this important debate and on such a thoughtful speech.
As the Minister responsible for sport, I could not be prouder of the performance of our Olympians in Paris. The team brought home 65 medals, which was the third-highest haul of all time, one more than the number won in Tokyo, and equal to the number won in London 2012. There were so many incredible moments, with Tom Pidcock’s recovery from a puncture to take gold in the mountain biking, Alex Yee’s sprint finish to snatch gold in the men’s triathlon, and Keely Hodgkinson storming to gold on the track in the 800 metres, to name but a few. Barnsley’s own Becky Moody also brought home a bronze as part of the Team GB dressage team. The breadth and depth of Team GB’s success was amazing, winning medals across 18 of the 32 sports. All our athletes—whether they picked up medals or not—have had an impact that goes far beyond the pool, the velodrome or the track: they have inspired the nation and shown the next generation what is possible, and I hope they are all very proud of that.
I was fortunate enough to attend the games in Paris to see our athletes in action in road cycling and swimming, and to visit the Olympic village and witness at first hand how our athletes are supported. I was not alone in making it to France to cheer on Team GB—half a million tickets were snapped up by British fans—and for all of the fans who did not make it over there, there were millions more back home who were gripped by the amazing performances of our athletes on the other side of the channel.
With the Paralympic games now well under way, it would be remiss of me not to mention Paralympics GB and the incredible performances we are seeing from our athletes. The UK is the birthplace of the Paralympic movement, and Paralympics GB have finished in the top three at every game since Sydney 2000. I was delighted to be there last weekend to see the amazing team in action. It was fantastic to see Maisie Summers-Newton bring home a gold for Paralympics GB; I was absolutely gripped by the wheelchair tennis, where I was lucky to see both Andy Lapthorne and Greg Slade win their singles matches; and I really enjoyed seeing my first game of boccia and cheering on the amazing Claire Taggart. I know the nation is fully behind them to continue that success in Paris, and I wish them the very best of luck.
Sport is a huge part of our national story. British and Northern Irish athletes have competed at every single Olympic games since 1896, when the first modern Olympic games took place in Athens. The Great Britain and Northern Ireland teams have the distinction of being the only nation to have won a gold medal at every summer Olympic games since. Team GB have been in the top seven in the Olympics since 2008 and, other than the USA and China, we are the only nation to win more than 60 medals at the last four games.
The success of this year’s games was the culmination of years of hard work and dedication from not just our athletes but all the coaches and support staff behind the scenes, as well as the instrumental work of UK Sport and the national lottery. Every athlete has the raw ingredients of talent, determination and perseverance, but they need the right environment to nurture those skills.
When discussing the legacy for our future Olympians and Paralympians, the Government recognise the vital importance of funding. The investment of public money in Olympic and Paralympic sport allows UK athletes with the potential to achieve on the world stage to train full time and to fully focus on achieving their sporting potential. It provides UK athletes with access to the very best coaching in the world, as well as world-leading medical support and research, supporting athletes to achieve peak physical condition for competition and helping them to recover quickly from injury. Funding also provides access to the world’s best sports science and technology to support athlete performance.
All that means that UK athletes are provided with the best possible chance to achieve their potential, and that they arrive at the Olympic and Paralympic games as among the best-prepared athletes in the world. That has transformed British fortunes at the games, with Team GB rising from 36th in the Olympic medal table in 1996 to the top-seven finishes at every Olympics since 2008. Paralympics GB have also achieved top-three finishes in every games since 2000.
UK Sport invested £385 million of Exchequer and lottery funding for the Paris Olympic and Paralympic cycle. As we look beyond Paris, the Government are fully committed to multi-year funding for our elite sports system, to enable our athletes to excel on the world stage. That means supporting them financially to match, and build on, their success in Paris as we look forward to Los Angeles 2028.
Our athletes are ordinary people who, through hard work and determination, have gone on to do extraordinary things and who will in turn inspire a generation. Our success on the world stage is a huge source of national pride and helps to encourage people of all ages to get involved in sport and physical activity. I see the enduring impact that it can have at a local level. Barnsley’s Dorothy Hyman competed as a sprinter in Rome 1960 and Tokyo 1964, winning three medals, and she continues to inspire our community today. The sport centre in Cudworth named after her is a hub of sport and physical activity for the local community. We want to give the next generation every possible chance to chase their dreams of becoming the next Keely Hodgkinson, Max Whitlock, Caden Cunningham or Bryony Page.
From the chances it gives young people to the jobs that it creates, sport is helping to deliver this Government’s mission of kick-starting economic growth and breaking down barriers to opportunity for all. Just last week, Sport England announced that, following Team GB’s performance in Paris, it is investing £120 million into funding the next generation of Olympic and Paralympic talent. That funding will increase and enhance opportunities for talented young athletes in England to explore and develop their athletic potential, regardless of their background or financial circumstances. It will support athletes starting out in grassroots environments, as well as those already on formal talent pathway programmes, and it will be available for the 2025-29 funding cycle.
The Youth Sport Trust hosted the school games national finals in Loughborough this weekend—a multi-sport event that brings together junior national ranked athletes and their peers who have shown potential via non-traditional roots. With more than 180 school games alumni represented at this year’s Olympic and Paralympic games, it is great to see how nurturing young talent can transform lives.
Our Olympic and Paralympic athletes are also being supported to get out into their communities and make a difference to the causes they care about. The Changemaker initiative is a partnership between the national lottery operator Allwyn, Team GB, Paralympics GB and UK Sport. It aims to help athletes to maximise their impact upon their return from Paris 2024 and give back to the local communities that have supported them. Athletes can choose the social impact project they wish to support, and it could be anything from grassroots sports projects to mental health initiatives—whatever cause they are passionate about.
I have noted the comments by my hon. Friend the Member for Gower about the Andy Murray centre. Andy has of course contributed a huge amount to British sport throughout his long career. I understand that plans for the centre have now been withdrawn, but I am sure that many people will be working hard to find other ways to honour Andy’s legacy.
The legacy of the games is not limited to the elite support system. Team GB’s performance has the power to inspire everyone. We want to help as many people as possible to get active, whether that is someone completing their first parkrun or someone who is an inspiring future Olympian or Paralympian. The Government recognise that high-quality, inclusive facilities help to ensure that everyone has access to sport, as my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) spoke about in her area. We will continue to support grassroots sport, including through the multi-sport grassroots facilities programme, which will invest £123 million throughout the UK this year. We will also provide support through our arm’s length body Sport England, which annually invests over £250 million of national lottery and Government money.
Adam Jogee
I welcome the Minister to her place in the first Westminster Hall debate since her appointment. I welcome the Sport England funding she just referred to, but I urge her to make representations to it to look beyond the big cities when it comes to how that funding is allocated—I see my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater) nodding—to places like Newcastle-under-Lyme.
Stephanie Peacock
As a Member of Parliament who represents a town, I hear my hon. Friend’s comments.
In the interests of time, I want to address the questions that my hon. Friend the Member for Gower put to me. She asked that we work holistically across Government to address participation inequalities. As she will know, this Government are focused on delivering our five core missions, including breaking down barriers for everyone and fixing the NHS by improving the health of our nation. We recognise that increasing physical activity rates across the population is fundamental, which is why I will work with my ministerial colleagues to ensure that sport is a key part of delivering those missions. She also asked me to meet her and talk about the curriculum; as a former teacher, I would be delighted to do so.
This debate has been a brilliant opportunity to outline the Government’s commitment to maximising the legacy of our biggest sporting events. We are of course committed to supporting sport and physical activity, whether that be our Olympic and Paralympic future stars or funding our grassroots sports system to ensure that everyone has the access to sport and physical activity that they deserve. I again thank my hon. Friend for securing this important debate.
Question put and agreed to.
Media Bill
Stephanie Peacock ExcerptsThursday 23rd May 2024
(6 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
May I take this opportunity to say what an absolute delight, privilege and honour it was to be in the Chamber yesterday when Craig took his seat post his sepsis? I visited Craig in hospital every week that he was there, and I must say his resilience and positivity were an example to me. He really did raise my spirits and I am delighted that he was able to come back yesterday.
Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
I associate myself with those comments, Mr Deputy Speaker, and echo the Minister’s comments about the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill.
I am pleased to be here tonight to see the final passage of the Media Bill. It has been 20 years since the last broadcasting laws were introduced, and in that time the media landscape has changed dramatically. This Bill ensures that our broadcasting sector can continue to thrive with regulation fit for the modern era. The measures in the Bill have been through several layers of scrutiny, from the White Paper to the pre-legislative inquiry conducted by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee. I thank the Committee for its work, and I will take this opportunity to say some other thank yous.
I thank the range of stakeholders, including those throughout our broadcasting sectors, who engaged so extensively with the content of the Bill. I thank the noble Lords, including of course our Labour Lords team, the civil servants and officials, and the ministerial team. I also thank my office, particularly Anna Clingan. While Labour would have added some further measures to future-proof and strengthen the Bill, I am pleased to welcome its passage this evening. Further to that, I am happy to support the amendments from the other place, which I believe will strengthen the position and purpose of our public service broadcasters.
First, it is right that the fundamental Reithian principles of public service broadcasting are reinstated, and it is important that educational programming for children and young people has an explicit basis in the Bill. Labour has spoken in detail at every stage of the Bill about the importance of children’s access to public service content, including educational content.
As we enter a general election, our media—be they our public service broadcasters, our commercial radio and television stations or our local media outlets, including my local paper, the Barnsley Chronicle—will play an incredibly important role in holding accountable all of us who stand for public office. Our media and broadcasting sector will, and always does, play a fundamental role in our society and democracy. I am pleased that this legislation, which will secure their future, will enter into statute.
As we enter the election period, I send colleagues from across the House my very best wishes, including, of course, my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch). I especially mention those who are retiring, including the Deputy Speakers: my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster Central (Dame Rosie Winterton), and the right hon. Member for Epping Forest (Dame Eleanor Laing).
Julia Lopez
I thank the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman). She is an extraordinarily diligent Member of Parliament, and I admire her for that. I simply want to thank her, and the hon. Member for Barnsley—
Julia Lopez
East—apologies. I thank both Members for all the work that has gone into this legislation. Since we have discussed all these matters at length many times, I simply commend the Bill to the House; I am very glad that we have finally got to this stage.
Lords amendment 1 agreed to.
Lords amendments 2 to 25 agreed to.
Football Governance Bill
Stephanie Peacock ExcerptsTuesday 23rd April 2024
(7 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
I am pleased to be here to welcome the Football Governance Bill. Football clubs sit at the heart of communities up and down the country. Family, friends and neighbours come together to watch games, win or lose. While providing role models as well as infrastructure, football clubs also inspire the next generation of footballing talent across every town, village and city. At the same time, English football is world leading. English clubs have fans on every continent, and the players and managers they attract are admired from all corners of the world. That combination of local togetherness and global acclaim is the envy of many.
As the shadow Secretary of State set out, the Premier League and its clubs have contributed billions to the economy and supported more than 90,000 jobs. This worldwide success has seen bigger revenues than ever coming into the game. But despite that, the financial sustainability of the English football pyramid is at risk.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) member for Luton South just outlined, along with my hon. Friend the Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick) and many others, too many fans are having their attention forced away from the pitch and into the troubles of malicious ownership, mishandled finances and poor management. That could be Bury fans, who witnessed their club being expelled from the football league almost five years ago or, more recently, Reading fans, who shared with me their deep concern over the future of their club when I met them just a few months ago. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Reading East (Matt Rodda), and indeed the hon. Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland), for their campaigning work on this issue.
There are clearly structural issues in the pyramid that must be addressed. Indeed, the fan-led review shone a clear light on the issues within the game, and I pay tribute and thanks to the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Dame Tracey Crouch) for all her work. As my hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale (Mike Amesbury) noted, the debate is taking place on St George’s day, so I take the opportunity to wish the whole House a happy St George’s day.
I am supportive of the Bill and the principle of an independent regulator for football, with a strict and focused remit on the financial sustainability of the game and the ability to act with proportionality. Labour supports giving fans a greater say in their clubs, ensuring that owners and directors are stringently tested on their integrity, competence and financial soundness, as my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins) spoke about. It is also important to prevent any further attempts at a breakaway league, which puts financial gain before the all-important principles of competition and qualification based on merit.
In preparation for the Bill, I have met representatives from across the industry: from the Premier League and its clubs, the English Football League, the National League and the FA to the Football Supporters’ Association and supporters groups, including the Barnsley FC Supporters Trust. I know how important Barnsley football club are to my town, and I was pleased to watch them at Oakwell just a few weeks ago. While not everyone agrees on every detail of the Bill or with the shape that the regulator will take, there is a lot of agreement that English football offers something world-beating and special that must be protected for years to come. That is what I believe the Bill seeks to do, and I look forward to helping to shape it with careful scrutiny.
The regulator does not address all the issues facing football today, nor is it meant to, but some of those issues have understandably been spoken about in the debate. For example, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) gave a thoughtful speech, and has brought forward a private Member’s Bill, on unauthorised entry to matches. His Unauthorised Entry to Football Matches Bill is a proportionate intervention, designed to ensure the safety of fans by creating a specific offence for those attempting to enter stadiums without a ticket, and it has my support.
Over the weekend, we all saw the news that FA cup replays will be scrapped. That has understandably featured in this debate, with a number of Members raising their concerns. I believe it was the wrong choice, and fans will rightly have questions about how decisions are made that affect clubs all the way down the pyramid. The magic of the FA cup is that clubs from right down the football league, and indeed some non-league clubs, can compete with those at the very top.
At the moment, however, grassroots clubs across the country are facing difficulties, while contributing so much to communities, as the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) said. The hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) highlighted how important they are to the football pipeline. The clubs in my Barnsley East constituency—Wombwell Town, Worsbrough Bridge AFC and Wombwell Main—all contribute so much to the community. Hundreds of young people and adults play there every week, but the latter two face flooding issues at their facilities. In the case of Wombwell Main, which I visited a few weeks ago, flooding is causing multiple game cancellations. That is sadly typical of grassroots football across the country, which provides the foundations for both players and fans.
It is right that the regulator is strict in scope, covering the financial sustainability of the top five leagues, but a big part of that is to give fans a meaningful say in their club. I would therefore like to hear from the Minister on the strength of the measures for fans within the Bill. There has been a lot of rhetoric about how football must be for the fans, but is the Minister confident that the Bill’s provisions will live up to expectations and give fans the voice they deserve? I welcome the contribution from the hon. Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage), the Chair of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee. I thank the Committee for its work and the fact that it has agreed to hold a pre-appointment hearing with the new chair of the independent regulator once there is a preferred candidate in place.
My hon. Friends the Members for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) and for Eltham (Clive Efford) both spoke about this issue, and I pay tribute to both of them for all the work in this area, as well as to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Ian Byrne); I know there has been keen interest in the issue of the so-called backstop powers and the ability of the regulator to intervene in the distribution of broadcasting revenue throughout the pyramid. That is an unprecedented power and must be carefully crafted in order to achieve its aims. Can the Minister assure Members across the House that the regulator will be given all the targeted powers it needs to secure the sustainability of the pyramid, as per its primary purpose?
Given that players and staff at clubs are often the first to notice that the club is experiencing financial difficulties, and that their livelihoods will be directly impacted, it seems odd that they are not mentioned once in the Bill, as my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) pointed out. Can the Minister explain why that is? The hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) also made some important points on that subject.
I ask for a little more detail on some of the work being undertaken to ensure that the regulator hits the ground running. For example, what progress has been made on the shadow regulator, and is there any more detail on how the expert panel, which will be responsible for much of the regulator’s decision making, will be appointed? My hon. Friends the Members for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) and for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith) brought up the issue of equality, diversity and inclusion in football clubs. It will be for the regulator to decide what is contained within the corporate governance code of practice, but that is one of the issues that I would expect it to consider.
Before I conclude, I would like to touch on women’s football. There is widespread agreement that placing the women’s game in scope of the regulator would not be right at this stage. The Carney review revealed a number of pressing issues in the women’s game, including poor pay, professional standards, mental health support and union representation. It is important that we take them seriously. It is crucial that we ensure the financial sustainability of the men’s game, but that should not result in resources being stripped from the women’s game. I would therefore welcome an update from the Minister today on what progress has been made on implementing the recommendations of the Carney review, and on the Department’s plans for protecting the future of women’s football as part of the Bill.
To conclude, I thank all those involved in the Bill: my opposite number, the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the right hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew), the civil servants, the clubs and, of course, the fans. Labour has long committed to reviewing football governance. This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to preserve the future of our nation’s favourite sport. We can and must get it right.
Oral Answers to Questions
Stephanie Peacock Excerpts(8 months ago)
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Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
Everyone deserves to feel safe playing the sport that they love. In the context of, sadly, too many former professional players suffering from dementia, what steps is the Department taking to ensure that sports governing bodies have the guidance they need to ensure the safety of professional players?
Stuart Andrew
The hon. Lady has raised an important point, as have other Members. The Government are leading work on concussion in particular. We have worked with stakeholders and developed the first guidelines to be distributed to the grassroots, which have also aided professional sports. The evaluation of this is ongoing and will be invaluable in helping us to improve sport-related education and health. We have also convened a sports concussion research group to identify the questions that still need answering, as well as an innovation and technology panel, whose members are looking at the practical, technical solutions that will aid safety and mitigate concussion. However, as I have said, this is an incredibly important area and one on which we will focus.
BBC News Impartiality: Government's Role
Stephanie Peacock Excerpts(9 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Bardell. I would like to begin by congratulating the right hon. and learned Member for Northampton North (Sir Michael Ellis) on securing this important debate. Impartiality has always been, and must remain, a crucial underpinning of the BBC. It is right that the BBC is operationally and editorially independent from Government, and that impartiality is embedded in its governance at every level. As a result, not only do eight out of 10 UK adults consume BBC news on average per week—double the next nearest provider—BBC news is unique in its ability to gain the trust of audiences in the UK regardless of their political persuasion.
As has been discussed in this debate—we have heard opinions from across the House, and indeed across the country, from East Londonderry, St Austell, Brigg and Goole, Gravesham, Stone, and Elmet and Rothwell—many are deeply concerned about the impartiality of coverage regarding the terrible events in Israel and Palestine, where over the past few months we have seen an intolerable loss of life and an unacceptable growing humanitarian disaster in Gaza. There has been some debate over the way the BBC chooses to use the word “terrorist”. To be absolutely clear, Hamas are terrorists, and proscribed as such in UK law. Hamas has committed brutal atrocities and I call it a terrorist organisation, as is only right. The BBC is responsible for its own editorial guidelines, and it is not for politicians to tell it what should and should not be included in them. However, I will use the word “terrorists”, and it will report that I did.
On the BBC’s coverage of the topic more broadly, concerns over impartiality have been raised by people of many different persuasions and backgrounds. A poll conducted by More in Common found that roughly equal numbers of people find the BBC’s coverage to be as pro-Israel as pro-Palestine. However, an even larger percentage of the 2,000 people polled said they felt that the public service broadcaster’s output on the conflict between Israel and Hamas had been mostly neutral. That is not to say that the BBC makes no mistakes, and when it does, it must work swiftly to rectify them. That is particularly important at a point where community tensions are high. The Community Security Trust, a charity that works to eradicate antisemitism, has reported a staggering 500% rise in antisemitism, and Tell MAMA, a project working to address anti-Muslim hatred, has reported over 2,000 Islamophobic incidents between 7 October and 7 February—more than triple the 600 reported during the same period the year before.
We must denounce hate crime in the strongest terms, and I expect to see a robust response to all incidents of hate associated with the conflict. I recently met the Community Security Trust, Stand Up! and Maccabi GB to discuss the worrying rise in antisemitism and Islamophobia and the work going on in communities to promote tolerance and integration. There is no place in Britain for antisemitism or Islamophobia, and all of our media outlets have a duty to report responsibly and accurately on both the conflict itself and the rise of hatred in this country. With that in mind, it is concerning that Jewish employees at the BBC have raised complaints about its coverage. The BBC says it has well-established and robust processes in place to handle any issues, concerns or complaints, so I would hope and expect that to be dealt with fairly and accordingly.
Sir William Cash
Does the hon. Lady agree that although the word “racist” is often used in this context, much of it is actually to do with divisions of opinion on matters of religion, and that is very much at the heart of a lot of these problems? If she does not know that, does she recall that Gandhi himself, when asked what the most important question about politics or religion is, said that those who do not understand that politics is secondary to religion do not know what they are talking about?
Stephanie Peacock
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point; he has certainly put it on the record. I would like to move on.
On the BBC’s record on impartiality and its complaints processes more broadly, it is timely that the Government’s mid-term review has finally been published, as it looked directly at those issues. Indeed, the review noted that the BBC has completed the implementation of its 10-point plan, following the Serota review, with measures including impartiality training for staff, internal content reviews and regular staff surveys on impartiality. Further to that, following the independent review by John Hardie in 2023, the mid-term review also notes the new social media guidance for BBC presenters who do not cover news, current affairs or factual journalism.
The Government also found in the review that BBC First delivers fair complaints decisions that withstand scrutiny from the regulator. In terms of improving that further, the review makes a number of recommendations, including external scrutiny of complaints, improving the visibility and clarity of the process, ensuring the quality and timeliness of responses, and giving greater transparency on decision making. It is important that action is taken to work on those, and that Ofcom looks at progress in those areas when it reviews BBC First before the charter renewal.
Like any institution, the BBC does not get everything right. It is, however, a cornerstone of our creative economy and an important part of our day-to-day lives. The BBC is an important national institution, and we believe we must secure its future as a universal, publicly owned, public service broadcaster, not least in a world where misinformation is rife and public interest journalism is becoming harder to access.
Oral Answers to Questions
Stephanie Peacock Excerpts(11 months, 1 week ago)
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Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
I welcome the Minister back to her place. The Government are one of the biggest advertisers in the UK yet, when it comes to placing adverts and campaigns, local papers such as the Barnsley Chronicle can be overlooked in favour of buying ad space online. Many people in this country do not have digital access or still rely on print media as their primary source of news and information, and our local papers are struggling. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that the Government’s policy on placing adverts supports the interests of both our press and the public?
Julia Lopez
I thank the hon. Lady for highlighting this issue, which the Cabinet Office leads on. The DCMS has been in talks with the Cabinet Office about that spend. As I say, I have spoken to groups such as Reach about this previously. I was in the Cabinet Office during the pandemic, when some large adverts were used and some of the issues faced were about regularity; the Government spent a large amount of money with local newspapers because of that audience reach, because of older readership and so on. So the Government do a lot in this area, but I appreciate that there is always more we can look to do and I understand the point she is making about online advertising.
Media Bill (Sixth sitting)
Stephanie Peacock ExcerptsTuesday 12th December 2023
(1 year ago)
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The Chair
I remind the Committee that with this we are discussing the following:
Government amendments 13 to 15
Clause stand part.
Schedule 9.
Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
It is good to see you back in the Chair, Mr Vickers. I am pleased to finally address clause 48, which I am happy to support. I will begin by outlining why this part of the Bill is so important.
The introduction of the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill was welcomed by Labour, which has led the way in calling for large tech companies to be properly regulated and for the need to ensure competition in digital markets. However, although the DMCC Bill contains a package of measures to protect consumers, enhance innovation and unlock growth, it is cross-economy legislation that is not tailored to the unique challenges faced by UK radio services.
The Government have recognised that in an age of shifting consumption habits, there is a need for provisions that protect our public service broadcasters, so it was absolutely vital that the Media Bill did not miss the opportunity to provide protections for radio, too. As has been mentioned, radio stations are of great importance to 50 million weekly listeners from all corners of the country, so it is vital that as technology rapidly evolves, people in the UK are guaranteed access to the radio services they know and love. The new regime set up by the Bill does not seek to give radio undue benefits, but rather looks to preserve the current state of play, in which such services can be listened to at first request and without unneeded interruption. That is for the benefit of listeners.
That means that voice-activated platforms cannot play their own playlists or services when a customer requests an Ofcom-licensed radio service, or overlay their own advertising into radio broadcasts without the permission of the broadcaster. Interruptions will be allowed only if a listener has explicitly made a request to be notified, for example through an alarm or call. That is important if radio services are to reach their listeners and continue to secure advertising revenue, and important for platforms, which will be able to ensure that their customers’ requests are dealt with precisely. Indeed, it hardly seems favourable to platforms to allow their customers to become frustrated after not receiving a service that they have requested multiple times through a voice command.
Importantly, the Bill has retained the requirement on designated radio selection services to use a broadcaster’s preferred way of delivering their station to listeners —for example, they might want it delivered via the BBC Sounds app, or through the Global Player. That vital safeguard will ensure that radio services can access the valuable data they need to improve their services, innovate and best serve their audiences. However, I recognise that platforms have been concerned about the number of routes they might be expected to deliver. Google said in evidence to the Culture, Media and Sport Committee that it can take around a year of engineering and tech work to onboard a preferred route, particularly because listeners can ask for a station in various ways; for example, a listener could refer to the same service as “6 Music”, “BBC 6” or “BBC Radio 6”, or use one of a number of nicknames. However, as Radiocentre has argued, the vast majority of stations are covered by a small number of apps.
The explanatory notes to the Bill clarify that a preferred route may be ruled out if it is “unduly burdensome”. That balances radio services’ needs with platforms’ ability to realistically cater for those needs. I am hopeful that this clarification will provide a solid basis on which the regime can be built.
On radio selection services, the definition in the Bill is designed to capture smart speakers, but it can be amended by the Secretary of State via the affirmative procedure. We discussed why an ability to amend the definition is so important during our debate on the inclusion of car entertainment systems. I am also pleased that there is now a requirement for the Secretary of State to consult Ofcom when making regulations to alter this definition, as the Culture, Media and Sport Committee recommended. However, there has been some confusion about the existing definition and whether the regulations will apply to smart TVs and streaming players using voice activation. Can the Minister confirm whether such devices will be included? If not, could they be in future?
Turning to designated radio selection services, as I said in debate on my amendments 32 and 33, it is a shame that the CMS Committee’s recommendations on delegated legislation were not accepted. I am pleased, however, that it seems that there will be mechanisms for de-designating devices, to ensure the exclusion of legacy devices. That is beneficial for platforms and broadcasters, who would find it quite a burden if requirements applied where devices were no longer supported.
I do not have any particular problems with the lines in the Bill relating to the meaning of “internet radio service”, or the list of relevant internet radio services, particularly as there is now a power in the Bill to amend that definition through the affirmative procedure. However, as has been discussed, the Bill misses the opportunity to bring within scope podcasts and IP-only services.
Finally, I would like to raise concerns passed on to me by TuneIn, a radio aggregator that allows listeners to easily access online the radio stations that they want to listen to. It worries that without an explicit “must offer” requirement, the Bill risks unintentionally making it legal for a radio station to deny its service to any platform or device. TuneIn warns that, without a requirement on radio broadcasters to ensure that their services are always offered to platforms, devices and apps, there can be no guarantee that radio will be freely accessible across those platforms. That could threaten the entire premise of the regime outlined in this clause and, of course, potentially damage TuneIn’s business as a radio aggregator. I therefore ask the Minister whether the Department has considered the concerns of TuneIn, and whether he can guarantee that the Bill will ensure that radio is freely accessible across all platforms, rather than just a handful of platforms.
To conclude, there has been lots of contention over this part of the Bill, but I am pleased with its intent to protect radio services, and with the changes that have already been made to improve it and make it more workable. There are a few changes to delegated legislation that I would have liked to have seen, and a few questions to be asked around scope, particularly when it comes to the exclusion of podcasts and the devices covered. However, overall, I welcome the inclusion of this part in the Bill, and I look forward to seeing the regime in action, so that listeners across the country can continue to enjoy their favourite, trusted radio services.
The Minister for Media, Tourism and Creative Industries (Sir John Whittingdale)
We have had a useful debate on one of the central parts of the Bill, and although the hon. Lady described it as one of the more contentious parts, I think there is widespread agreement on it. We were very grateful to the CMS Committee for strongly supporting the inclusion of these measures in the Bill, and since then, we have had extensive consultations with both the radio sector and the platforms. Some of the concerns expressed by platforms were not entirely justified, and I hope that we have been able to reassure them.
This part is focused on live radio broadcast, but obviously we will monitor the development of consumers’ listening habits, and there are powers available to broaden the scope of the Bill if it becomes clear that that is necessary. However, in summation, I am most grateful to the hon. Lady for her support, and to the rest of the Committee, and commend clause 48 to the Committee.
Amendment 12 agreed to.
Amendments made: 13, in clause 48, page 102, line 12, after “service” insert
“or (as the case may be) a relevant internet radio service”
See the explanatory statement to Amendment 12.
Amendment 14, in clause 48, page 103, line 12, after “service” insert
“, or
(b) a person who was but is no longer a provider of a relevant internet radio service,”
This amendment and Amendment 15 enable OFCOM to give a confirmation decision to a former provider of a relevant internet radio service.
Amendment 15, in clause 48, page 103, line 13, after “service” insert
“or (as the case may be) a relevant internet radio service”—(Sir John Whittingdale.)
See explanatory statement to Amendment 14.
Clause 48, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule 9 agreed to.
Clause 49
Penalties under Parts 3A and 3B of the Communications Act 2003
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Sir John Whittingdale
Clause 49 inserts proposed new schedules 16A and 16B, as set out in schedules 10 and 11, into the Communications Act 2003. These new schedules make further provisions about financial penalties and the liability of joint entities in relation to designated internet programme services, regulated television selection services, relevant internet radio services and designated radio selection services. In particular, schedule 16A sets out the principles by which Ofcom will assess penalty amounts and maximum penalties for non-compliance with the requirements on providers of those services set out in parts 2 and 6 of the Bill. For the BBC, S4C or a person who fails to comply with an information notice, the maximum penalty is £250,000. In all other cases, the maximum penalty that Ofcom can impose against providers of services is the greater of £250,000 or 5% of the provider’s qualifying worldwide revenue.
As is the case under the existing prominence regime, Ofcom will have responsibility for enforcing the new online prominence framework and that relating to radio selection services. It is therefore important that the regulator has a range of enforcement tools at its disposal for tackling contraventions, including the ability to impose a financial penalty. We believe that these provisions ensure that Ofcom can take enforcement action against the relevant provider in a proportionate and effective manner.
Stephanie Peacock
Clause 49 introduces schedules 10 and 11, which provide further information about enforcement and how it relates to the new prominence regime for our public service broadcasters, as well as the new regime for radio services on smart speakers and voice-activated platforms. I will speak briefly about both schedules in turn.
Schedule 10 sets out how penalties for failure to comply with the relevant regimes will be calculated. The ability to issue penalties is an important backstop that will ensure compliance with the regime while incentivising mutually beneficial commercial partnerships. However, to secure the integrity of the regime, it is important that there is consistency and fairness in how the backstop can be used, so it is good to see set out in legislation the principles that Ofcom must apply when determining the amount of any penalty, as well as how maximum penalties will be calculated. It is right that these should have the potential to be significant—they can amount to either £250,000 or 5% of the person’s qualifying worldwide revenue—so that they can serve their purpose as an effective deterrent. I am also pleased that the schedule allows for those amounts to be adjusted, should they need future-proofing in any way. Any change would be subject to the affirmative procedure, which would allow for scrutiny. Overall, I believe that schedule 10 is a necessary consequence of the regimes that the Bill sets up, and I have no particular issues to raise with the way that they have been drafted.
Schedule 11 is an important extension of the backstop powers awarded to Ofcom. It sets out the liability of parent entities and subsidiaries, and explains how confirmation decisions, penalty notices or provisional notices may be issued to them. Having that clarification in the Bill will hopefully make for a clear enforcement framework for Ofcom, and will make clear the responsibilities on those to whom the rules apply, so I welcome the inclusion of the schedule, which is necessary to the introduction of the two prominence regimes.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 49 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedules 10 and 11 agreed to.
Clause 50
Awards of costs
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
I beg to move amendment 41, in clause 50, page 112, line 33, at end insert—
“(4) This section does not have effect until both Houses of Parliament have passed a motion in the form ‘That this House is satisfied that an effective alternative method is in place of persuading publishers to become members of an approved regulator; and therefore approves the repeal of Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013.’”
Damian Collins
That is why it was important that there is an exemption for media organisations from the regulatory powers that Ofcom will have through the Online Safety Act. The reason those exemptions were there was that newspapers already have liability for not only the copy printed, but the adverts they accept and run. The newspaper or magazine editor is legally liable for advertising as much as they are for the articles they commission. Those liabilities and that transparency just did not exist for a lot of online publications, and it could be difficult to see who was behind it.
The challenge with the Online Safety Act was to recognise that the platforms were acting as distributors and promoters of the content—even for a lot of the content that is spam-related or comes from misinformation networks and hostile foreign states. If companies like Facebook are actively promoting that content and highlighting its existence to its users, they should have a liability for it. Newspapers and magazines already had those liabilities because it was clear who was publishing them. In the Online Safety Act, to qualify for the media exemption, it has to be clear who they are, where they are based and who the editor is, and therefore the transparency, liability and risks exist already. They did not in the online world, where many of the publishers were hidden and used that anonymity to spread lies and disinformation.
With that, the onerous costs that lawfare brings to newspapers, and the hollowing out of their business model by the ad platforms that distribute their content for nothing, there is an urgent need to have some sort of compensation mechanism for news organisations, so that local newspapers, national newspapers and magazines get fair compensation for the free distribution of their content across the web. Those are the challenges we face now, and those were things that were never envisaged at the time of Leveson.
As the hon. Member for Aberdeen North has said many times in the debate, things move pretty fast between media Bills. This is another example of how things have moved fast again. This amendment to the law and removing section 40 from the statute books reflects the need for us to change the law to reflect the media world that exists today.
Stephanie Peacock
When Leveson produced his report over 10 years ago, he attempted to strike a careful balance between two important competing objectives: enforcing press standards and protecting the free press. As such, although the inquiry paved the way for the existence of an approved press regulator, it was decided that membership in such a regulator would be voluntary rather than mandatory for news publishers, with incentives put in place to encourage active take-up of membership. One of the major incentives to encourage membership was introduced in the form of section 40. Where papers had not signed up to an approved regulator, they would be vulnerable to paying their legal opponents’ costs where the judge considered it reasonable to do so, even if they were to win the wider case. If they were signed up to a recognised regulator, however, they would be protected from that.
Despite being introduced in the Crime and Courts Act 2013, section 40 has never been commenced and would be repealed by clause 50. We appreciate that section 40 is not a particularly well-drafted piece of legislation. Representatives from and of the press, including the NMA, have long argued that it is morally wrong to attempt to persuade them to sign up to external regulation on the basis that they would have to pay the legal fees of both sides, even when they had won the case. They say if the section was commenced, it would prove financially ruinous to them as on principle they would never sign up to such a regulator.
With over a decade passed, the media landscape has changed significantly since the Leveson report was published, as we have discussed. Almost every major press news outlet has introduced some form of regulation, whether individually or through the Independent Press Standards Organisation, which was not anticipated when the law was drafted. Publishers face significant new challenges that threaten the ability of the industry to carry out its vital work, from inflation and falls in advertising revenue to the rise of social media and the ability to share disinformation more easily online.
Amendment 41, tabled by the hon. Member for Aberdeen North, acknowledges what we will do when section 40 is repealed. It remains important that we have a press that is accountable for its reporting and meets the highest ethical and journalistic standards, but given the poor drafting of section 40 and the fundamental imbalance of costs, I believe that those questions are best answered outside the matter of repeal itself. On that basis, I will not stand in the way of this Bill as a result of the Government’s decision to repeal section 40.
Sir John Whittingdale
My hon. Friends the Members for Folkestone and Hythe, and for Aylesbury, set out some of the background to this issue in two extremely well argued speeches. This is an issue that my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe and I have been living with for over 10 years.
The Leveson inquiry came out of what was undoubtedly a serious abuse by the press, which resulted in criminal prosecutions and some convictions, and a general acceptance that the existing system of press regulation by the Press Complaints Commission had failed. However, the royal charter and section 40 were constructs of the then Liberal-Conservative Government; they were an attempt to find another way of dealing with the issue that would be acceptable to the press but did not represent state regulation. A royal charter was created, and the Press Recognition Panel was created, which would authorise an independent regulator and confer on it the advantages that section 40 gave.
The understanding was that the vast majority of the press would sign up to the independent regulator, and that perhaps one or two of the more recalcitrant, hard-line—probably red-top—tabloids might stand out and would need persuasion, as the hon. Member for Aberdeen North said when speaking to her amendment. Section 40 was about persuading those one or two remaining outliers to join the system. I must say that I still feel slightly ashamed, because I was persuaded to support the establishment of section 40 after a long discussion with the then Prime Minister.
What none of us, or at least hardly anybody, anticipated was that there would be unanimity across the whole of the media—across all the national newspapers, including those that were certainly not sympathetic to the Government, nor had committed any particular sins of the kind being looked at by Leveson. The Financial Times, The Guardian, The Independent—none of them was prepared to go along with that. It was not just the national newspapers that did not join, but all the local and regional papers; the big groups such as Newsquest, Reach and Johnston Press did not join.
The number of publications that chose to sign up to the regulator, which was created in order to qualify for recognition by the panel, was and is pretty small as a proportion of the industry. I think that the hon. Member for Aberdeen North said that there were 200 publications now signed up. Most of them are niche and very small. There is nothing wrong with them; they are doing a good job, and it was their choice to join, but I am afraid that the system has failed to persuade the vast majority of publications to go along with it.
The opposition of the vast majority of publications meant that the system had failed to deliver what was intended. It was my choice, when I was Secretary of State, not to implement section 40. We announced that the Government would not bring in the order required for the powers in section 40 to come into effect. Ever since then, it has been sitting on the statute book unused, and in its place we have a new system of self-regulation.
The hon. Member for Aberdeen North kept talking about the need for independent regulation. Some may have criticisms of IPSO, but IPSO is an independent regulator. It is a self-regulator, and it is outside the statutory framework. There will be decisions taken by IPSO that I do not agree with, as there were by the Press Complaints Commission, and one will never be entirely satisfied, but as I think my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury pointed out, IPSO has been considered quite carefully by an independent assessor, and was found to be independent and delivering the kind of principles in the editors’ code that it was set up to enforce.
Stephanie Peacock
It is curious that the Minister is critiquing the Opposition’s position. The Government might be in trouble on the vote in the main Chamber today, but we are not yet in government. I think I outlined quite clearly in my speech that we do not oppose the repeal of section 40, and we appreciate that it has not worked. I also acknowledge that the media landscape has significantly changed, and any future consideration of the challenges of the press should take into account advertising, misinformation and the real challenges for local news. As much as the Minister tempts me to go into more detail, I remind him that he is still in government.
Sir John Whittingdale
I am not sure that has cast any greater light on the Opposition’s position, but it was helpful to hear more from the hon. Lady about her position. At least we know where the SNP stands; the hon. Member for Aberdeen North made it absolutely plain that the SNP is happy to support our removing this pressure on newspapers to join a state-approved or recognised regulator, but only if we put in its place another mechanism that will put equal pressure on them, and that might prove more successful, as she said, in persuading them to join up to the recognised regulator. She and her party may accept the criticism of the existing position, but at least we understand that she still wants Government pressure on newspapers to join a state-recognised regulator. That is the principle we cannot support. I am afraid that in my view her amendment is no better than the existing system. It removes one point of leverage on the press, only to replace it with a yet unspecified alternative.
I do not think it is right that Government should be involved in regulation of the press; I think it is very dangerous. Even the rather convoluted and complicated mechanism of the royal charter still represents state involvement. That flies in the face of belief in the importance to democracy of the freedom of the press, which we on the Government side regard as paramount. I am therefore absolutely committed to supporting clause 50 and the repeal of section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013.
Sir John Whittingdale
The clause introduces schedule 12, which sets out minor and technical amendments to existing broadcasting legislation in relation to retained EU law. These are straightforward fixes to ensure that legislation does not become inoperable following the UK’s exit from the EU.
Part 1 of this schedule removes references to the audiovisual media services directive from the Broadcasting Act 1990 and the Broadcasting Act 1996. Part 2 of schedule 12 amends part 4A of the Communications Act 2003 to remove references to the European Commission, obligations under the audiovisual media services directive, and to other European legislation.
Stephanie Peacock
It is important that our legislation addresses issues of retained EU law. As such, I have no particular issues with the contents of the clause or with schedule 12.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 51 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule 12 agreed to.
New Clause 1
Delivery of public service content on relevant television services
“After section 264A of the Communications Act 2003, insert—
“264B Delivery of public service content on relevant television services
(1) Ofcom must monitor the extent to which the public service remit for television in the United Kingdom is met in respect of relevant television services.
(2) If Ofcom considers that the public service remit for television in the United Kingdom is not being met in respect of such services, it may set whatever programming quotas it considers necessary to ensure that the remit is met.
(3) For the purposes of this section, ‘relevant television services’ means—
(a) the television broadcasting services provided by the BBC;
(b) the television programme services that are public services of the Welsh Authority (within the meaning of section 207);
(c) every Channel 3 service;
(d) Channel 4;
(e) Channel 5.””—(Stephanie Peacock.)
This new clause would give Ofcom powers to measure the delivery of public service content on the linear services of the public service broadcasters, and set quotas if it considered the current level to be unsatisfactory.
Brought up, and read the First time.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.
Stephanie Peacock
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
I am very pleased to speak to this new clause. As the shadow Secretary of State outlined in her speech on Second Reading, the Bill is welcome but misses the opportunity to consider how we can secure the future of UK public service media for school-age children. The issue was brought to my attention by the Children’s Media Foundation, which I have been pleased to meet more than once. It has done a huge amount of work on understanding patterns of media consumption by children, and how those patterns might impact their chances of viewing public service media. I place on record an explicit thank you to the foundation for that work, and I hope that it will be picked up further as a result of the new clause.
If we all agree that public service content is important for adults, as I believe we have done time and again throughout the Bill’s passage, I think we can agree that it is equally, if not more important for children. Certainly, the kind of high-quality public service content that our public service broadcasters can provide for children has powerful potential and has, for the last 75 years, been the envy of the world. It can promote wellbeing, give children an understanding of where they live, teach them British values of tolerance, provide entertaining forms of education that supplement their learning at school, and show a diverse range of role models. Ultimately, public service media can encourage children to value culture and crave knowledge—valuable characteristics for citizens to have when they come of age.
However, due to several connecting factors, this sort of content is under threat. As technology has rapidly evolved, the children’s content landscape has fundamentally changed forever. Children as young as toddlers have access to new devices and platforms. They can navigate apps on tablets and choose content that they would like to watch. That gives them access not only to video on demand services such as Netflix and Disney+, but to platforms such as YouTube and TikTok. The popularity of these forms of content are such that Ofcom estimates that less than half of 3 to 17-year-olds now watch live television. Similarly, there are potentially 9 million school-age viewers, but the top-rated programme on CBBC in any one week may have as few as 50,000 viewers, and similar numbers will request that programme on iPlayer. That number is a fraction of what we would hope it to be, given the importance of children’s public service content, which has been outlined.
As well as declining viewership, there has arguably been a decline in the amount of children’s content produced that could genuinely be considered to be public service. When there are budget constraints, UK-focused dramas or documentaries that reflect the unique lives and concerns of British children are often the first to go. The volume of first-run, UK-originated children’s programming on PSB channels dropped to its lowest level in 2022; it was down to 518 hours, compared to 640 hours in 2019. Furthermore, producers can save money by localising animated and puppet shows; what might initially appear to be a British programme with wider societal value may in fact be an international production, with personalised snippets to attract a bigger pool of funders.
It is not that the industry is unaware of the problems surrounding children’s public service content. Certainly in 2022, when the Government brought the young audiences content fund to an end, more than 750 creatives and executives from the UK children’s content industry signed an open letter, and campaigned to extend the fund for another three years. The likes of Channel 5 and Paramount are also working hard to keep up their Milkshake! offering. They are increasing their spend on children’s programming year on year, just to keep provision at the same level, but where there is a need to meet commercial demands, valuable children’s content will inevitably continue to suffer.
There is almost nothing in the Bill to show that this combination of concerning trends—declining viewership alongside declining content quality—has been identified, and there are no meaningful measures to stop the problem escalating. Children’s content is included in the new simplified remit in the very first clause, but that does little to increase accountability or individual channels’ contribution to creating children’s public service content, or to recognise changing trends in how children consume their media.
It is for all those reasons that the Children’s Media Foundation argued that we must urgently accept that children’s public service media are under threat and rethink how we can best protect them as part of the passage of the Bill. As a result, I propose that the Government conduct a review to better understand how we can secure children’s content long into the future.
Such a review would be an opportunity to ask bigger questions than the Bill currently allows for. For example, do we need to go to where the children are and broaden our concept of public service media for children, encouraging and promoting such content on the likes of Netflix, YouTube and TikTok? Do we need to learn the lessons from the ambition of the Online Safety Act 2023 and consider how algorithms serve content to young people, perhaps adjusting them to ensure that they promote diversity of thought rather than simply more of the same? Should we set targets for PSBs to hit a number of hours consumed rather than a number of hours produced when it comes to public service media for children?
I do not claim to have the answers to all these sorts of questions, but I do believe that they need to be explored. The UK must address the reality of the matter and accept that a new approach will be needed if we are to ensure that valuable content reaches the eyes and ears of young people across the country. I hope that is something that the Minister can acknowledge and I look forward to hearing his response.
Sir John Whittingdale
I suspect that the entire Committee agrees that it is important that children have access to public service broadcast content. The educational value of children’s television is hugely important, and it is indispensable for happy parenthood. It is for that reason that proposed new subsection 264(5)(c) of the Communications Act 2003 puts children’s television front and centre of the public service broadcasting regime. That will ensure that the public service remit can be fulfilled only by the public service broadcasters collectively producing a wide range of children’s content, including original content that reflects the lives and concerns of children and young people in the UK, and helps them to understand the world around them. The inclusion of children’s content as part of the remit will ensure that the needs of children feature prominently in Ofcom’s regular reporting. That will also complement its strengthened powers in respect of under-served content areas.
Although the provision of public service children’s programming is key, children—and especially older children—do of course watch other kinds of public service content as well, whether with their parents or on their own. As the hon. Member for Luton North set out, children access public service content via a wide range of devices. The Government agree that internet access and streaming services have fundamentally changed how audiences access TV, and that certainly applies to younger audiences, perhaps even more so than for any other group. On online advertising, I have recently been chairing a separate initiative—the online advertising taskforce—whose purpose is to ensure that online advertising does not advertise illegal products, and that children do not see advertising of inappropriate products.
The Bill tries to create flexibility by allowing our PSBs to deliver their remits across a wider range of services, including in new on-demand and short formats. We have made it clear that our PSBs must serve all audiences, and that extends not just to the content they make, but to how they choose to distribute it. These changes will ensure that our public service remit stays relevant and continues to reflect how audiences, including children and young people, are accessing PSB content.
We have to remember that PSB content has to be funded. All speakers paid tribute to the BBC’s output in this area, including CBBC and CBeebies, which are a core part of its output. Of course, the BBC receives public funding and is required under the charter to deliver content of that kind. It is more challenging for commercial television, as those broadcasters are dependent on advertising funding. I merely observe that the more we impose restrictions on what can be advertised to children, the more there is a detrimental impact on the amount of revenue gain by commercial broadcasters, which will influence their decisions about how much they invest in children’s programming.
That was one of the reasons why we previously established the young audiences content fund, which was designed to address the fact that almost all the children’s content was being produced by the BBC. The fund was there to support the commissioning of children’s content on other channels, and it proved very successful. It was a three-year pilot, but the Government continue to remain committed to the principle. I hope that, one day, it might be possible to resurrect something of that kind.
Stephanie Peacock
If it was a successful pilot, why did the Government not continue it?
Sir John Whittingdale
It was a successful pilot funded by the BBC, because it was licence-fee funded. Personally, I would have liked it to continue, but the BBC obviously was under financial pressure and put up a strong case that it could not continue to fund it. The principle that it was seeking to address remains an important one, and the Government have tried to provide alternative support, through things such as tax relief, for the production of children’s content. I share the hon. Lady’s sadness that it was brought to an end after three years, but it was always intended to be a pilot, and viewers will still be able to see content produced by the fund for some years to come.
Sir John Whittingdale
I hope that the sitting can end very soon in any case; I think we have pretty much concluded the debate, and the remaining clauses are relatively technical.
I think the best people to conduct the review that the hon. Member for Barnsley East has called for are Ofcom. Ofcom has given a commitment in its planning work to take an in-depth look at how the market is best serving the interests of children, which I think will give us the insight that she wants. For that reason, I do not think her new clause is necessary.
Stephanie Peacock
I appreciate the Minister’s point about it being harder for commercial stations than it perhaps is for the BBC—of course, I made a point of praising Channel 5 and Paramount in my comments. I asked a number of quite broad questions about children’s television. I hope that Ofcom will consider them, but I am not sure that the Bill mandates it to do that. For those reasons, I would like to push the new clause to a vote.
Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.
Sir John Whittingdale
I do not intend to detain the Committee at great length. Clause 52 gives the Secretary of State a regulation-making power to make amendments to other existing legislation, which is needed as a result of changes contained in the Bill. If the proposed changes are to other primary legislation, the regulations will be subject to debate in both Houses. If the proposed changes are to secondary legislation, the regulations will be subject to the negative procedure.
Clause 53 authorises expenditure from the Bill. It covers the possibility that increased spending by Ofcom might require the payment of grants to incur or meet liabilities in respect of capital and revenue expenditure, or the possibility that the Secretary of State makes a grant to S4C.
Clause 54 sets out the Bill’s territorial extent. The Bill will extend and apply to the United Kingdom, except for the repeal of section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013, which will extend and apply to England and Wales.
Clause 55 provides for the commencement of the provisions in the Bill. The majority of the provisions will be brought into force by regulations made by the Secretary of State. The provisions that come into force on the day on which this Bill is passed will be the regulation-making powers in relation to the prominence of television selection services and the general provisions in the Bill, such as the clauses dealing with the power to make consequential provisions, financial provision, extent, commencement, and the title of the Bill. Clause 50, which repeals section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013, will come into force two months after the Bill receives Royal Assent. The rest of the Bill will come into force when the Secretary of State decides.
Finally, clause 56 establishes the short title of this legislation, which, when enacted, will be the Media Act 2024. I commend clauses 52 to 56 to the Committee.
Stephanie Peacock
I am pleased to have reached the final stages of our Committee. I have no issue with the clauses in this group. Perhaps I could seek your guidance, Mr Vickers, on whether it would be appropriate to say a few words in conclusion, or perhaps on a point of order.
The Chair
There will be an opportunity later.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 52 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 53 to 56 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Question proposed, That the Chair do report the Bill, as amended, to the House.
Stephanie Peacock
I would like to make some concluding remarks. Overall, the Media Bill is a piece of legislation that we very much look forward to seeing on the statute book as soon as possible, and I hope there is no further delay in its passage. There are, of course, some areas where I would have liked further progress, but I am really pleased to have welcomed through many of the measures, from the prominence regime to the establishment of the first video-on-demand code and rights.
I conclude by putting some thank yous on the record. I thank the Chairs, the hon. Member for Cleethorpes and my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford South, the Clerks of the Committee and all members of the Committee. It is particularly worth noting the work done before the Bill was introduced, by the CMS Committee and all the stakeholders, and in particular by Anna Clingan from my office, who has worked incredibly hard on all the speeches. I look forward to continuing the process of scrutiny on the Floor of the House, probably after Christmas.
Media Bill (Fifth sitting)
Stephanie Peacock ExcerptsTuesday 12th December 2023
(1 year ago)
Public Bill CommitteesRead Full debate Media Act 2024 View all Media Act 2024 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 12 December 2023 - (12 Dec 2023)
Kirsty Blackman
I absolutely agree. It is really important for voice activation. It is also really important for physical activation as well in terms of on-screen navigation, because of that massively high proportion of listening that takes place in the car.
For an awful lot of people, that is the only way that they hear news. They are not listening to the radio to hear news; they are listening to the radio to hear music, but they catch news bulletins on commercial radio. By the way, commercial radio stations put an awful lot of time, effort and journalism hours into ensuring that they have accurate news bulletins and that they are providing updates. For a significant proportion of people, that is the only form of news that they hear, and they hear international and national news as well as local news on those services. Therefore, it is important not just from an entertainment point of view, but from a resilience and an information point of view.
We have talked already about democracy and access to democracy and democratic services. Some people only get those updates from the radio; they only know that a general election has been called because local radio has told them. [Interruption.] Don’t worry, a general election has not been called this morning—I am sure that Government Members would know before I did, anyway. [Interruption.] I am sure that some Government Members would know before I did, anyway.
I would like the Minister to be very clear that he attaches importance to radio and to commercial radio and that he understands the ways that people use it. I would also like him to commit to giving some consideration to how this Bill could be future-proofed to ensure that those screen and button navigations also allow people to get the service that they want and that they do not have to use voice activation. If he can give me that reassurance, I may not push the amendments to a vote.
Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)
As I mentioned on Second Reading, part 6 is one of the most contentious parts of the Media Bill. The Culture, Media and Sport Committee picked up on it immediately and published a dedicated report on the radio clauses prior to its report on the Bill more broadly. The report highlighted issues with the drafting as well as with the content, which I will speak about in more detail as we debate the various aspects of, and additions to, this part. It also expressed full support for the inclusion of measures intended to protect our treasured radio services. I wanted to mention that at the beginning of my remarks.
I have been extremely supportive of radio and the principles of inclusion, but I know that platforms are extremely concerned. A few weeks ago, I hosted a roundtable with radio services and platforms and we had a really constructive discussion about the Bill. It was one of the first times that stakeholders had been invited together to have a discussion, albeit a virtual one. During the discussion, it was clear that platforms were largely happier, albeit to varying degrees, with the latest version of the Bill compared with the draft. That is to the credit of the Committee and the Department, which took seriously the matter of rectifying some of the problems with the Bill while maintaining a commitment to the importance of the part and radio as a whole. I believe the Bill is all the better for it. We are now on a much better footing for discussing some of the remaining issues in the clause. We can focus on the nuances, rather than discussing whether our radio services should be protected.
I therefore approach the amendments today keeping in mind the fact that a good balance has been struck. My overwhelming priority is to ensure that radio services get the protections they have been waiting for. I do not wish to cause any major further disruption to a part of the Bill that has been fine-tuned, to the benefit of both radio and platforms.
To address amendments 42 to 44 specifically, as with the smart speakers explicitly included in the Bill, car entertainment systems are a platform that have the potential to make it hard for users to find radio services. Some sophisticated car entertainment systems, for example, have the ability to preference their own content over radio services, to force users to swipe through pages of options to find their favourite radio station, or indeed to refuse to offer radio, full stop. Radiocentre claims that some recent models of Tesla cars do not have a broadcast radio at all, and though it is theoretically possible to stream radio through an interface on such models, no protections are in place to ensure that that will remain the case in a genuinely accessible and convenient way.
That issue is only more worrying when coupled with the reality that listening via car entertainment systems is on the rise, in particular among younger people. Ofcom reports that 9% of people listen to a streaming service via an in-car system, rising to 19% in the 16-to-24 age group. I therefore ask the Minister why such car systems were not considered for inclusion in the initial definition in the Bill alongside smart speakers. The CMS Committee report said that
“the Government may have overestimated the extent to which listeners are easily able to find their preferred stations in in-car systems.”
I agree with that statement and with the Committee’s recommendation to the Minister and Ofcom that they keep the issue under “close review”.
The Government agreed to that in their response to the Committee report, so how do they actively plan to do it? At what threshold will they consider extending the regime to cars or to any other device that poses similar problems? While I am in favour of exploring the inclusion of car entertainment systems, given the scope in the Bill to extend the regime, I think it is important that any extension is properly consulted on; in particular, car manufacturers themselves will need to be consulted.
Similar to the prominence regime for public service broadcasters, , it is right the Bill should be future-proofed so that new technologies can be accounted for, not just with cars, but further into the future. I hope that the Minister will consider that and will explain with clarity how we can be sure the Bill does enough to protect radio not just in today’s world, but in the years to come.
The Minister for Media, Tourism and Creative Industries (Sir John Whittingdale)
I apologise to the Committee for croaking a little. I also declare that on Sunday I attended the Jingle Bell ball with Capital Radio, which is organised by Global Media. In between some excellent performances, we talked briefly about the Media Bill.
The hon. Member for Barnsley East described part 6 of the Bill as perhaps one of the more contentious ones, although in fact I think that there is widespread agreement in Committee. On Thursday, we spoke about the importance of radio and how it continues to achieve a significant proportion of listening, despite having been written off a number of times in the past years. Part 6 of the Bill relates to the recognition that the way in which people access radio is changing. We spoke for a bit of time about updating the regime governing broadcast television to take account of the move to digital so, similarly, this part of the Bill is concerned with the fact that a growing proportion of radio listening is done through smart speakers.
The amendment moved by the hon. Member for Aberdeen North relates to cars in particular, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South pointed out, listening to the radio in cars represents a significant proportion of radio listening. Research carried out in 2021 by WorldDAB Forum, which is the international standards and co-ordination body for digital radio, showed that more than 90% of prospective car buyers across a range of international markets say that a broadcast radio tuner should be standard equipment in every car. Research has also found that 82% of potential car buyers say they would be less likely to buy or lease a vehicle that is not equipped with a built-in radio tuner. Consumer demand for new cars to have a radio installed as standard remains powerful.
Kirsty Blackman
I accept and understand the Minister’s reassurances. I am pleased to hear his support for radio, and his understanding of its importance, particularly in relation to car and van use. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Stephanie Peacock
I beg to move amendment 32, in clause 48, page 89, line 21, at end insert—
“(4A) A statutory instrument containing regulations under subsection (1) may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.”
This amendment would ensure that regulations which designate and specify descriptions of radio selection services are subject to the affirmative procedure.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 33, in clause 48, page 89, line 25, at end insert—
“(5A) Before making regulations under subsection (5), the Secretary of State must consult—
(a) persons who appear to the Secretary of State to represent providers of radio selection services;
(b) persons who appear to the Secretary of State to represent providers of internet radio services;
(c) such other persons as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.”
This amendment would ensure that the Secretary of State would have to consult before making regulations adding or removing a condition that must be satisfied before a radio selection service may be designated.
Stephanie Peacock
I will speak in much more detail about my support for clause 48, and for protecting radio services, in various other debates on this part of the Bill, but here I will focus on two areas where increased scrutiny is needed, both of which will be important for the integrity of the regime. In the initial drafting of the Bill, there were many areas in which the Government had not incorporated sufficient scrutiny of powers to create secondary legislation. That was picked up by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, which made various recommendations to do with strengthening scrutiny requirements and ensuring that power was not concentrated in the hands of the Secretary of State where that was not necessary.
Many of those suggestions were accepted by Government, but in the area of designated radio selection services, the Government chose not to follow the relevant recommendations. Indeed, it is understandable that the Government have chosen not to determine in the Bill which radio selection services will be regulated, and are instead leaving the definition broad, so as to include those that are
“used by a significant number of members of the public”.
That will ensure that the decision on which platforms are in scope can be informed by the recommendations of Ofcom, and that the list can be amended in the future to fit the needs of the regime.
Kirsty Blackman
These amendments would ensure that the regulations were subject to the affirmative procedure when they were first created, and advance consultation on any changes to those regulations. Have I got that correct? If so, I am happy to support the hon. Lady.
Stephanie Peacock
Yes. We understand why the Bill is not prescriptive in setting out designated radio selection services, but if that is to change, there should be further parliamentary scrutiny.
Sir John Whittingdale
On amendment 32, the hon. Lady and I have debated the secondary legislation provided for in this Bill, and in other Bills in the past. In this case, we do not agree that the affirmative procedure is appropriate. As the Bill sets out, the designation of a radio selection service will reflect the fact that it is used by a significant number of people who access radio services. Advice on what level of use is significant, and which services cross that threshold, is a matter for Ofcom in its role as independent regulator.
As is set out in proposed new section 362BB(3) to the Communications Act 2003, the Secretary of State must have received a report from Ofcom before making the relevant designation regulations. The framework for designation is therefore set by this Bill, and advice on which services are used by significant numbers of people will be provided by Ofcom. On receipt of Ofcom’s advice, the Secretary of State must consult with radio selection services and the radio industry, as well as others whom they consider appropriate, in accordance with proposed new section 362BB(4), before coming to a decision. They can disagree with Ofcom’s recommendation, as provided for in proposed new section 362BC(6), but must provide reasons for doing so.
The order-making power relates to orders confirming the Secretary of State’s decision to designate a platform or platforms. The order will be laid before Parliament and follow the negative procedure. We felt that the affirmative procedure, which would trigger a debate in both Houses, was not appropriate, given that the exercise of this power relates to decisions affecting one or more companies. I hope that the hon. Member for Barnsley East will accept that in this case, a negative resolution is sufficient.
I am extremely grateful to the hon. Member for Barnsley East for tabling amendment 33, and I absolutely recognise the intention behind it: to ensure that the Secretary of State consults before making regulations adding, removing or altering a condition that that must be satisfied before a radio selection service may be designated. A similar consultation requirement is imposed by proposed new section 362BB(4) before the Secretary of State can make regulations designating a radio selection service.
I acknowledge that it is reasonable to seek an equivalent requirement with regard to making any changes to the conditions that need to be satisfied before a service may be designated. However, the full impact of the amendment’s wording will need to be looked at by parliamentary counsel. In particular, the hon. Lady’s proposal will need to be considered in the context of subsection (4) of proposed new section 362BB to the Communications Act 2003. I hope that she is willing to withdraw the amendment, on the understanding that the Government will consider the matter further before Report.
Stephanie Peacock
I thought for a moment that the Minister was going to support my amendment. However, I am happy with his explanation, and so am willing not to move amendment 33. On amendment 32, I am afraid that once again we disagree on the statutory instrument, and once again I am not comfortable with the fact that Ofcom’s recommendations can be ignored, with no subsequent debate. For that reason, I will press the amendment to a vote.
Kirsty Blackman
I will be fairly brief. Amendment 45 is about the scope of regulation of the selection services, and about internet radio services, including on-demand and internet-only content provided by the BBC or Ofcom-licensed radio stations.
There are some issues with the definition, given the changing nature of radio and listening; the fact that people listen to services on demand and to internet radio; and the possibility of a time lag between internet or digital radio broadcasting, and broadcasting on analogue services. Some services are in scope only if they are broadcast on digital radio at the same time as being broadcast on the internet. If there is a time lag between the two, then they are not broadcast at the same time—and they may be broadcast only a few seconds apart. I would like clarity from the Minister on whether “at the same time” means “sort of at the same time.” If someone accidentally listens to the radio via two different methods at once, they may find that what is being played is slightly out of sync. I might do that when I move between the car and the house, or move between listening on my mobile phone to listening on my television. I may have different ways of listening to a service.
To be fair, I do not differentiate between listening on the internet and listening to digital audio broadcasting radio. If someone asked me whether what was coming through my car speakers was being streamed through the internet, coming from DAB or on an analogue service, I probably could not say. All I know is that I am listening to Northsound Radio, or BBC Radio Scotland; the method I am using does not make a difference to me.
There is also some stuff here about Ofcom-licensed radio that is broadcast only on the internet. That is also important, because again, people listening to Classic FM have no idea whether the programme is available only on DAB or on the internet. They just know that they are listening to Classic FM. For those people, the definitions do not matter; nor do they matter for licensing. Classic FM and BBC radio are licensed in the same way, through Ofcom, whether people listen to them online or via DAB. They are held to the same standards. The question is therefore whether the Bill does what the Minister and the Government intend: ensure that regulations and protections are in place, whether programmes are broadcast via digital radio, the internet or analogue services.
Stephanie Peacock
I will begin by addressing amendments 45 to 47 and new clause 3, which I tabled. I am disappointed that on-demand and podcast listening appear to have been excluded from the new radio protections. As the BBC points out, it is somewhat unusual that the Government have recognised the need to legislate in the Bill for on-demand TV content, and acknowledge its growing role in people’s viewing habits, yet have neglected to recognise the same patterns emerging for audio content and the rise of podcasts, and are failing to provide appropriate protections as a result. Some 10 million adults listen to podcasts every week, and there are estimates that in just 3 years’ time, there will be more than 28 million podcast listeners in the UK. Likewise, of BBC Sounds’ 417 million plays between October and December 2022, 193 million were on demand. It seems somewhat counterintuitive, therefore, that the Bill tries to protect the future of radio through a clause that does not pay any attention to one of the fastest growing ways of listening to audio.
To use an example provided by Radiocentre, under the current system, a user would be able to tune in to the LBC breakfast show with Nick Ferrari but could not be guaranteed access to the hugely popular podcast “The News Agents”. The same applies to on-demand radio: a user could listen to “World at One” or “Today in Parliament” live, but cannot be sure of catch-up access. Of course, given the breadth of podcasts available, it makes sense that any change might begin with ensuring access to podcasts associated with Ofcom-regulated stations. That would give a reasonable limit, so that platforms are not given the extra burden of onboarding a number of unregulated services that are not already within scope of the Bill. However, given the popularity of podcasts and the Government’s intention to protect valuable UK audio content, excluding podcasts altogether seems like missing a huge opportunity. I hope that the Minister understands that that is a contradiction, and will lend his support to some of the amendments.
My new clause 3, and amendments 45 to 47, make very similar requests of the Government on this topic, though new clause 3 is less prescriptive. If the Minister chooses not to support these amendments, it would at least be a good opportunity for him to explain why podcast services have been excluded. I point out again that the last chance we had to create media legislation was 20 years ago. What if another opportunity does not arise for 20 years? Does he not think that it will seem rather out of place for there to be no protection for on-demand audio content? Many measures in the Bill were crafted specifically to allow for future-proofing and a forward-looking vision. This is one area where such a vision has unfortunately been lacking, and I hope to rectify that through the amendments, with the support and co-operation of the Committee; I know that many of its members are in agreement with me on this.
On amendment 51, there have been various concerns, during the Bill’s formation, about the definition of an internet radio service, and the reference to programmes being provided in the same way and at the same time as the broadcast service. I am therefore glad that since the draft Bill, tweaks have been made to ensure that adverts are disregarded when it comes to considering whether a programme is being provided at the same time as a broadcast service. That change will have come as a great relief to providers of radio services that rely on a certain level of customisation when it comes to adverts. However, I know that Radiocentre and others still have concerns that the Bill does not account for minor differences in output, or time lags. Will a small difference, such as a time lag between a broadcast and an online radio station’s output, be considered a breach of the definition, and exclude a station from being designated as an internet radio service? At the very least, I hope that that was not the intention of the wording. It is important to clarify that explicitly in the Bill.
Stephanie Peacock
I appreciate what the Government are saying about drawing the line, but does the hon. Gentleman accept that that leaves us with a contradiction between audio and visual? For a Bill that is aiming to future-proof, it fails to do that.
Sir John Whittingdale
The regime that the Bill introduces for TV public service broadcasting has slightly different objectives from the regime that we are introducing for radio. In the case of radio, as we have debated, it is much more to do with ensuring that things like advertising are still supplied by the broadcaster, rather than being replaced by the platform, so that, for instance, there is no possibility of the platforms charging radio stations. They are slightly different objectives. It could always be said that there are distinct differences between the regime for audio and the regime for visual, and I think that is going to be inevitable. As I say, this is something where consumer habits are changing and we will of course keep the matter under review. There are powers to make amendments, should they prove necessary in future.
The Chair
Before we vote on amendment 45, may I check Stephanie Peacock’s intentions for new clause 3?
Stephanie Peacock
It depends somewhat on what happens with the amendment; I know the vote will come later. The hon. Member for Aberdeen North made the case in some detail and, in my intervention, I also made the case on this contradiction. I completely accept that there is a slight difference between audio and visual content, but, again, I am concerned about the lack of future-proofing. My intentions therefore depend somewhat on this vote.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
Stephanie Peacock
All the amendments in this group refer to the relationship between internet radio stations and radio selection services. As I have mentioned previously, striking the right balance between the two groups will be integral to the success of the regime as a whole. It is with that in mind that I will address amendments 48 and 49 together, before looking at amendments 52, 50 and 53.
On amendments 48 and 49, data is among the, or possibly the most, highly valued assets in our modern, tech-forward society. I am well aware of that, having served as shadow Minister for Data not too long ago and, having sat opposite the Minister for a lengthy discussion on the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill, I know he is too.
Data is key to innovation, unlocking benefits for users and growing an organisation more broadly. It is also crucial for creating the mutually beneficial advertising partnerships on which commercial radio naturally relies, alongside many of our other creative industries. I realise the vital importance of radio stations being able to access data for their audiences, regardless of the fact that such audiences might be listening through a smart speaker. I therefore appreciate the intent of amendments 48 and 49, which seek to ensure designated radio selection services provide stations with user data.
It was my understanding, however, that the need for data was one of the primary reasons for including preferred routes as part of the clause. Indeed, the BBC told the Culture, Media and Sport Committee that
“having the ability to play out through our preferred service means that we then get that data to allow us to improve our services. That is why it is such an important provision that should remain in the Bill”.
I am therefore keen to understand from the Minister whether it is his understanding that the requirement for smart speakers to provide a service through a preferred route inherently includes a guarantee that data will be accessible to radio stations as a result. If not, I hope the Minister can take on board what the amendments are trying to achieve and provide us with a comprehensive reassurance that radio stations will have access to user data as they deserve.
I turn to amendment 52. Unlike the draft version of the Bill, the published version signals that pre-roll advertising might be allowed, subject to the agreement of a station. That means that an advert or branded message of the smart speaker’s choosing could play on a smart speaker before the requested radio station begins playing. That is one of a number of changes from the draft version that I believe has helped alleviate some of the strong concerns tech platforms held about this part of the Bill.
On the other hand, Radiocentre, which represents commercial radio, has worries about the new addition. In particular, it cites the difference in bargaining power that radio stations may have in comparison with a tech firm, fearing that may result in the phrase “subject to the agreement of a station” being abused through effective coercion. That would effectively mean that radio stations are forced to take on adverts before their content starts playing.
I understand the concern and am supportive of the way the part as a whole has sought to redress the power imbalance between radio and platforms and secure a healthy future partnership between the two. However, I hope that Ofcom’s ability to enforce the regime more broadly as a result of the Bill will provide protections against abuse of the system, so long as Ofcom is appropriately empowered. There should be protections against any situation where a radio station is forced to allow a pre-roll advertisement against its will.
Can the Minister confirm whether the Bill does enough to ensure that will be the case and provide assurances that the protections for radio stations to refuse will be properly enforced? If he can—and I hope he will—I believe the amendment may not be necessary. After all, it is hard to imagine a situation where a radio provider would freely request a pre-roll advertisement, and I worry that, as a result, the amendment may have the counterintuitive effect of disrupting tech platforms’ precarious acceptance of the part more generally in its published version, compared with its draft.
Amendment 50 seeks to remove the restriction that would mean radio stations cannot charge smart speakers for their services. Conversely, amendment 53 seeks to extend the equivalent restriction on platforms to cover non-financial charges. It is my understanding that the premise of the relevant sections of the Bill is quite simple: to ensure that neither party charges the other. That seems fair to me, as it applies both ways. Can the Minister confirm whether this part looks to ensure that neither radio services nor smart speakers can charge the other when carrying out their duties under this part? If that is the case, any change to that arrangement, as sought by these amendments, may cause an unfair imbalance where it is currently an equal measure.
However, by way of reassurance for radio services that may be concerned about their bargaining power, I hope that the Minister will outline explicitly the protections in place throughout the Bill to ensure that the regime will be enforced with integrity. It is, of course, important that radio stations can be carried by platforms regardless of any power imbalance, and without having to face any unnecessary charges or burdens. That will provide certainty for radio stations and clarity for platforms, both of which need to accept and understand of the regime if it is to work as intended.
Sir John Whittingdale
I will start with amendment 50. As the hon. Member for Barnsley East has set out, the whole purpose of the regime we are putting in place is to ensure that the provision of live radio via smart speakers or similar devices is not monetised by either party and that there are protections for radio stations from having to sadly face charges imposed on them by platforms. At the moment, we agree that it is very unlikely that a station would be in a position to extract charges from a platform; the reverse is the case. However, in the widespread consultation we had—the hon. Lady has also referred to the discussions she has had with platforms—it was felt that nevertheless there did need to be some fall-back protection in place. If the hon. Lady’s proposed amendments were to be made, there would be no ability for the regime to be updated in the future, were the market to develop in such a way as to make it a realistic prospect. We think it is important to have that safeguard power should we one day encounter a situation where radio stations sought to extract charges from a platform.
Any exercise of the power within the Bill is subject to consultation, as set out in proposed new section 362BH to the Communications Act 2003, and it would also need to be approved by each House through the affirmative procedure. We nevertheless think the power is an important one, and I therefore hope that the hon. Member for Barnsley East will consider not pressing her amendment.
Turning to amendment 52, we do not think there is a need to change the wording of the current provision. There are a number of ways through which a station can reach its listeners via their connected devices. They can do so directly, through the use of a service operated by the platform; there are, in particular, means such as the Amazon Alexa radio skills kit, which offers an extremely effective way—particularly for small stations—to provide their content via the internet. Some of the aggregators, such as Global Player or BBC Sounds, act as a portal through which a number of different stations provided by the same operator can be made available. Others, such as TuneIn, bring together a range of different stations from different providers.
It will be for each station to decide the option that best fits its needs and to take advantage of the protections offered by the Bill. Some of those options may involve the inclusion of a short period of advertising before the radio station is played. However, the provisions in proposed new section 362BI are clear that advertising cannot be imposed on a station—it must be agreed to. This will ensure there remains scope for mutually beneficial arrangements, while ensuring that radio maintains control over the content that reaches its listeners. For that reason, I do not think the amendment, as the hon. Member for Barnsley East suggests, is necessary.
Stephanie Peacock
I appreciate the argument the Minister is making, and I did not really want to interrupt, but for clarity, these amendments are in the name of the hon. Member for Aberdeen North, not mine.
Sir John Whittingdale
I do apologise. I am not sure whether the hon. Lady was endorsing them, but I will direct my remarks particularly to the hon. Member for Aberdeen North.
Stephanie Peacock
If the Minister was listening to my speech, he would know that I am more sympathetic to his position than to that of the hon. Member for Aberdeen North, but it is a fine balance between both the platforms and the radio.
Sir John Whittingdale
And indeed a fine balance between the Government and the SNP. I am grateful to the hon. Lady for clarifying her position; I direct my remarks particularly to the hon. Member for Aberdeen North.
The Government absolutely recognise the intention behind amendments 48 and 49, but we do not think it appropriate to include such provisions within the Bill. We absolutely acknowledge that it would be of benefit to radio stations to be assured of access to listener data above and beyond the data that radio stations collect themselves, from monitoring their own streams or from surveys such as those by Radio Joint Audience Research. The provisions in the Bill are being put in place to address issues specific to radio, namely securing BBC and Ofcom-licensed commercial and community stations’ ability to access their listeners. As my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South made clear, the issues raised in the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Aberdeen North could apply across a wide range of sectors and are therefore more appropriately addressed in the context of the Government’s wider work on competition in digital markets.
I hope that the hon. Member for Aberdeen North will, to some extent, be reassured by the provisions in proposed new section 362BI that allow radio stations to nominate a preferred route for their service to be delivered to listeners, provided that the route is not unduly burdensome for the platform to deliver. I take the point from the hon. Member for Barnsley East about the importance that some stations attach to the ability to designate a preferred route. These measures do provide scope for a route through which—subject to a listener’s consent, for example through logging in—a broadcaster may be able to access valuable data to enable it to further improve its service. For those reasons, we do not support the amendment; I hope that the hon. Member for Aberdeen North will not press it.
In addressing amendment 53, it may be helpful to set out the context of the overall regime. At the moment, platforms and radio stations both benefit from carriage: the platforms provide radio with another way to reach its audiences, and listening to radio is one of the main reasons why people buy devices such as smart speakers. At this stage, there is no evidence to suggest that the platforms are seeking to charge stations for access, but as more and more listening shifts online, there is a risk that the balance will shift in favour of the platforms, creating an economic incentive for them to monetise the content to which they provide access.
Proposed new section 362BI will address the issue by limiting the scope for platforms to use their position to monetise the carriage of radio in the future. In the event that they seek to do so in ways that might not be covered by these provisions, or indeed by the ongoing work within Government on competition in digital markets, the new provisions will provide the Secretary of State with powers to intervene. In particular, proposed new section 362BP(2) will enable the Secretary of State to make provision by regulations
“about the terms and conditions that may be offered by the provider of a radio selection service to the provider of a relevant internet radio service for or in connection with the use of the service to access the relevant internet radio service”
and
“about the charges that may be imposed by the provider of a radio selection service”.
On that basis, I hope that the hon. Member for Aberdeen North will not press her amendment.