Draft Electronic Commerce and Solvency 2 (amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

John Glen Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2019 General Committees

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Electronic Commerce and Solvency 2 (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Mr Bailey.

As the Committee will be aware, the Treasury has been undertaking a programme of legislation to ensure that if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period, there will continue to be a functioning legislative and regulatory regime for financial services in the UK. The Treasury is laying statutory instruments under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to deliver that, and a number of debates on statutory instruments have been held in this place and the House of Lords. This statutory instrument is part of that programme.

These draft regulations will fix deficiencies in UK law on the financial services elements of e-commerce, to ensure they continue to operate effectively post-exit. The statutory instrument also fixes deficiencies in an EU Commission delegated regulation that sits under the EU securitisation regulation and sets out further detail of the Solvency 2 regime. The approach taken in that legislation aligns with that of other statutory instruments laid under the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to provide continuity by maintaining existing legislation at the point of exit, but amending it where necessary to ensure that it works effectively in a no-deal context.

On the substance of the statutory instrument, currently the electric commerce directive 2000 implements a regime to facilitate greater cross-border e-commerce activity in the EEA. E-commerce refers to commercial activity that takes place online only. The regime allows EEA firms to undertake online-only activity in an EEA state other than their home state, without being subject to regulation in that EEA country, on the basis that such firms will be subject to relevant regulation in their home state. In the field of financial services, that means that an EEA firm, excluding Solvency 2 insurers, can undertake online-only activity in the UK without needing authorisation from the Financial Conduct Authority. That is implemented in UK legislation through a provision in the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) Order 2001, which excludes EEA e-commerce firms from needing FCA authorisation.

In a no-deal scenario, the UK will be outside the EEA and not subject to the e-commerce directive. As a result, the reciprocal arrangement that permitted EEA e-commerce providers to operate in the UK without being regulated in the UK will no longer be valid. The exclusion in the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) Order 2001 will therefore be revoked, to prevent EEA e-commerce financial services providers from being able to undertake online-only financial services activity in the UK without the appropriate authorisation from the FCA.

This statutory instrument amends an EU Commission delegated regulation that provides further detail on the provisions of Solvency 2. One provision of that delegated regulation sets out requirements for investments in securitisations that no longer comply with the risk-retention and qualitative requirements. Those requirements relate to changes introduced by the EU securitisation regulation —a piece of legislation that is being domesticated through an earlier statutory instrument.

With regard to the e-commerce directive, these draft regulations therefore revoke article 72A of the Regulated Activities Order, where the exclusion for EEA e-commerce financial service providers from the UK regulation lies. In addition, this statutory instrument revokes the bulk of the regulations in the Electronic Commerce Directive (Financial Services and Markets) Regulations 2002, which gave the FCA rule-making powers pertaining to incoming EEA e-commerce financial services providers. Those will no longer be relevant post-exit.

However, to help protect the interests of UK customers of EEA financial services firms, and those firms themselves, it is also necessary to implement a regime that allows contracts taken out under the current exclusion to continue to be legally serviceable. As such, this statutory instrument will implement a run-off regime, to allow EEA e-commerce firms legally to service financial services contracts that were taken out before the commencement of the instrument, and which utilise the exclusion in the Regulated Activities Order for a limited period of time.

Pre-existing financial services contracts taken out under the e-commerce exclusion will continue to be excluded from the scope of regulated financial services activities under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000. The run-off regime is similar to the contractual run-off established by the Financial Services Contracts (Transitional and Saving Provision) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, which was debated by this House. This will enable EEA providers of e-commerce activity of a financial services nature to wind down their UK operations in an orderly manner. That will provide certainty and fairness to both providers and users of financial services, and demonstrate that the UK remains open for business and takes legal certainty and business continuity seriously.

The draft regulations also make minor changes to a Commission delegated regulation related to Solvency 2, to reflect changes introduced by the securitisation regulation. Specifically, the regulations correct a cross-reference and add references to the UK regulators. Those changes are necessary as they were not included in the statutory instrument related to the EU securitisation regulation. The Treasury has been working very closely with the Financial Conduct Authority in drafting this instrument, and February it published the instrument in draft, along with an explanatory policy note to maximise transparency to Parliament and industry.

In conclusion, the Government believe that the proposed legislation is necessary to ensure that online-only e-commerce financial services contracts taken out between EEA firms and UK consumers can continue to be legally serviced, and that the legislation, including retained EU law, will continue to function appropriately if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period. I hope colleagues will join me in supporting these regulations and I commend them to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Member for Oxford East and the right hon. Member for North Durham for their questions, which I will endeavour to answer.

As has been the norm, we have exchanged an analysis of the nature of this process, and the desirability of it. I think it was back in October that the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) asked what the point of it was. I must admit, I have had some reflections on that myself. However, we are getting to the end, with the 54th statutory instrument and the 33rd Committee today. We have systematically brought SIs to Committee under the powers of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and, as the hon. Member for Oxford East has shown, we have constructively scrutinised them. We have not agreed on every occasion, but I have sought to do that in as professional a way as possible in the circumstances. I will now examine the points that she has made.

On how the SI is named, I recognise the issues with Google but, as is the case with other pieces of legislation under this programme, it is necessary to group certain provisions together. I am not familiar with precisely how they are named. It is not a process that I have been involved in personally, but I imagine that there is a certain set of protocols, and I recognise that it is rooted in legal language. I cannot say more than that.

On the impact of no deal on e-commerce providers, those established in the UK will lose their exemption from other EEA countries’ laws that fall within the co-ordinated field as defined in the e-commerce directive. UK e-commerce firms will therefore want to prepare by checking for any compliance issues or additional legal requirement that they need to comply with in each EEA country in which they operate. UK providers of online services to EEA countries will need to continue to comply with a range of EEA countries’ individual legal requirements relating to online activities that already fall outside the scope of the directive.

The purpose of the directive was broadly—I think this touches on another point that the hon. Lady raised—around the alignment between different regulators. The purpose was to say that the domestic national competent authority regulator in an EEA country was sufficient in order to conduct financial services trade online with a UK consumer. That has been the broad understanding to this point. Obviously, if we entered into the undesirable no-deal situation, further legislation will be needed to safeguard UK consumers.

The hon. Lady asked why the changes to the Commission delegated regulation were not introduced in the securitisation regulations. The changes that needed to be made to the delegated regulation required further analysis which, due to timing constraints, the Government were unable to complete by the time those regulations were put before Parliament. To ensure that all relevant amendments were captured the Government therefore decided to spend more time on that analysis, and to introduce the changes through a further SI.

I have never said that this is a perfect process. We always envisaged, when we timetabled the SIs, that there would be a few at the end that would allow us to make provision where there would be some degree of aggregation. I recognise the hon. Lady’s point that the neatness, suitability and desirability of it at this stage is not as clear as it could have been, but that was an inevitable consequence of laying 1,000 pages of SIs in this condensed period.

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am sorry to rewind the Minister a bit, but I was not sure when he had finished his previous point. Just to be absolutely clear, we have been able to get some agreement, as I understand it, from the EU-level regulators that there would be reciprocal provisions on some other areas of financial services. Is the Minister suggesting that in this area we do not yet have that kind of agreement, and therefore that there could be problems with the continuation of contracts unless agreement is reached with those other regulators?

[John Glen]

In terms of reciprocity in a no-deal situation, actions taken in recent days and weeks give us that equivalence assessment. The scope and effectiveness of those going forward would not be fully compliant. We would then be in a situation, in the case of no deal, where we would need to undertake considerable examination and further legislation in that context.

On registration, EEA firms will need to notify the FCA but they will not need to register. That will not incur a fee. The right hon. Member for North Durham raised a number of points about evaluation and the time of the run-off. The maximum length of the run-off is five years. It is that long because of the scope of the contracts that could be involved.

The hon. Member for Oxford East asked about the assessment the Treasury had done of the number of contracts between UK consumers and EEA firms. It is very small because most UK consumers would not be comfortable entering into that sort of contract with an online-only company in the EEA. Our assessment and that of the FCA is that that number is, therefore, very small.

The right hon. Member for North Durham mentioned the territorial application of the legislation with respect to overseas territories. The SI does not affect the law in Gibraltar or the Crown dependencies, being Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man. I do not know about the overseas territories. I do not know whether Gibraltar is a proxy for all of the overseas territories—I imagine so. I will write to clarify that matter because I do not wish to mislead the right hon. Gentleman.

We had a de minimis impact assessment because we anticipated very few contracts due to the limitations of the online activity and online-only business that exists. We expect EEA firms to use passporting instead of the e-commerce exclusion. I am happy to examine the matter in more detail. I will write to the right hon. Gentleman on that point and acknowledge that my answer is not adequate.

I hope I have answered hon. Members’ questions. I recognise this has been a long and arduous process. I would like to put on record my respect and thanks to the hon. Member for Oxford East for the constructive and thorough way in which she has taken the matter on and how we have engaged in these Committees.

I would also like to acknowledge the considerable support I have had from hon. Members on the Government side of the Committee, in particular the Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Calder Valley, who has been with me on every single one, and the various Parliamentary Private Secretaries who have supported me.

I am not taking for granted that the Committee will agree the SI this afternoon but, in conclusion, I would say that we do need it to ensure that EEA firms providing e-commerce of a financial services nature can continue legally to service their contracts, and that the legislation functions appropriately if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period. The SI also ensures that retained EU law remains accurate if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. I hope the Committee found my answers and explanation satisfactory and will agree the regulations.

Question put and agreed to.

Clydesdale Bank and SMEs

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Economic Secretary to the Treasury if he will make a statement on Clydesdale Bank’s treatment of small and medium-sized enterprises.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

The Government are committed to ensuring a strong, diverse and dynamic economy, where small businesses can access the credit they require in order to prosper and grow. As such, we expect the highest standards of behaviour across the financial sector, which is why a number of necessary changes have been introduced to restore public trust in financial services, such as the senior managers and certification regime. Although it would be inappropriate for me to intervene in individual cases, particularly when they are subject to ongoing legal proceedings, we must always remember the human element to each case. That is why the Government have been consistently clear that, where there has been inappropriate treatment of SMEs by their bank, it is vital that those businesses can resolve their disputes and obtain fair redress.

At the Budget last autumn, the Government set out their support for the Financial Conduct Authority’s plans to expand eligibility to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service to small businesses and micro- enterprises. This will ensure that, from 1 April 2019, well over 99% of all UK businesses will have access to fast, free and fair dispute resolution. The Government have also been clear that banks need to work hard to restore businesses’ trust in their institutions, and have welcomed the banking industry’s commitment to establish two independent voluntary ombudsman schemes to resolve SME disputes.

I am extremely pleased that last week my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) agreed to sit on the steering group responsible for implementing these schemes, alongside Nikki Turner from the SME Alliance. That follows several months of intense engagement with the all-party parliamentary group on fair business banking. Although eligibility for the scheme to address historical complaints will need to be determined on a case-by-case basis, I encourage all SMEs that believe that they are eligible to apply once the scheme is up and running in September.

I am pleased that the sale of loan portfolios to third parties is now covered by the standards of lending practice—overseen by the Lending Standards Board—to which Clydesdale is a signatory. That means that it is now committed to ensuring that third parties that buy loans have demonstrated that customers will be treated fairly, and to allowing customers to complain to the original lender if there is a dispute that cannot be resolved. I can also confirm that Andrew Bailey of the FCA has spoken to Clydesdale about the case in question.

The Government are not complacent about this serious matter. We will monitor the implementation of these new or expanded dispute resolution schemes, and we will continue to remind banks of the importance of restoring SMEs’ trust in them.

[Angela Crawley]

I asked for this statement on Clydesdale Bank’s treatment of SMEs in the light of my constituent John Guidi’s hunger strike in protest at his treatment by Clydesdale Bank and Cerberus Capital Management. I am aware that aspects of Mr Guidi’s case are sub judice, so I do not intend to refer to the specifics in any way that would prejudice the case.

In 1998, John Guidi built a business in the west of Scotland with a portfolio of almost 150 properties. Clydesdale Bank backed that business from the very beginning. Mr Guidi has told me that he was treated by bank chiefs as “a model customer”, and in only 15 years he built a property business worth £16 million. He never missed a payment, was in regular communication with bank bosses and appeared to have a great relationship with the organisation.

My constituent informed me that Clydesdale Bank changed the structure of his loans in 2002, introducing him to the tailored business loan. In 2014, Clydesdale Bank sold its tailored business loans to Cerberus Capital Management—an American private equity business. Mr Guidi says that this organisation aggressively pursued the debt and subsequently put his company into receivership a few months after purchase. As a result of my constituent signing a guarantee, he has personally been made bankrupt, and the company is pursuing his family home. He only has a few weeks before he is evicted and has taken the decision to start a hunger strike in protest.

This tragic case brings attention to the vulnerability of UK businesses to abusive treatment by lenders and vulture funds, and the inadequacy of current regulation in preventing it. Sadly, John is not alone. There are hundreds of people across the UK whose tailored business loans were sold by Clydesdale Bank to Cerberus Capital Management. Since 2010, Cerberus has acquired more than 1.2 million distressed or non-performing loans, worth more than $80 billion. Simply put, Cerberus is the world’s largest debt collector.

As we all know, so-called distressed loans are often anything but. Since the banking crisis of 2008, we have seen a sorry catalogue of thousands of instances in which banks have forced legitimate borrowers into distress through no fault of their own, and because loans to SMEs are not regulated properly, the customers have little or no redress. John now finds himself in that category. All he wants is a fair say before he loses his family home. He has requested that his case go to an independent arbitrator for a review.

Will the Minister join me in calling on both Clydesdale Bank and Cerberus to engage with my constituent urgently, and will he meet John to discuss how the lack of regulation in the banking industry has destroyed his business? Finally, is now not the time to pursue an independent financial tribunal to ensure that my constituent can receive adequate remedy from the dispute resolution of his case?

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Lady for her points, and I will try to address them all. The decision to develop the dispute resolution service was taken carefully, after a lot of engagement with the industry. I am obviously aware of the press coverage around the case and of the extremely difficult circumstances faced by her constituent. I understand that enforcement action is currently on hold as legal proceedings have been brought against Clydesdale and Cerberus. I also understand that Clydesdale and Cerberus have offered to meet Mr Guidi.

The hon. Lady raises a number of points about a preferred alternative mechanism for resolving such situations. It is common across all jurisdictions for banks to sell off parts of their portfolio of debt at times. The question becomes what the appropriate mechanisms and safeguards are in those cases. The sale of debts to third parties is covered under the standards of lending practice, to which Clydesdale is a signatory. That means that it is committed to ensuring that third parties that buy loans have demonstrated that customers will be treated fairly, and to allowing customers to complain to the original lender if there is a dispute between the business and the third party that cannot be resolved.

I am very happy to meet the hon. Lady to go through the full extent of her outstanding concerns on the matter. I take the issue and this case very seriously.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) on raising this urgent question. As somebody who was involved with the all-party parliamentary group on fair business banking back in 2012 and 2013, the fact that we are still talking about businesses that were sold TBLs which have not received redress is somewhat shameful. I appreciate the very constructive comments made by the Minister. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) on his work as chairman of the all-party group. Is it not the case that these issues could have been resolved much earlier if, for example, the FCA had included TBLs in its original redress scheme, and would that not have resolved some of the issues now being faced by constituents of Members across this House?

[John Glen]

I acknowledge my hon. Friend’s long-standing efforts in this area. Before I was a Minister, I was a member of that APPG. The whole range of dispute resolution mechanisms that have taken place over the past 10 years all seem to have a very different story. As the Minister responsible, I was keen to ensure that we had a meaningful historical redress mechanism that would give discretion for the banks to examine these individual cases. I was also very keen that this House should be represented on that group. That is why having my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton, with representatives from the SME Alliance, involved will allow full scrutiny of all the cases that have not been resolved adequately.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) for securing this urgent question and for being a firm advocate on behalf of her constituent.

All people and all businesses in the UK deserve a mechanism that provides them with access to justice in the event that they end up in dispute with their financial services provider. Under your guidance, Mr Speaker, I will not comment on the specifics of the Guidi case. However, as many Members are aware, the issue of redress for SMEs against banks and other financial services providers is one that we have discussed in this place many times. At present, too many businesses are caught between the threshold for using the Financial Ombudsman Service and the cost and difficulty of using the full legal process to pursue a claim. So this issue is about more than just one case.

We must take decisive action to draw a line under historical cases like these, as well as ensuring that we have an adequate system of redress going forward. If we do not, then we have no hope of restoring the trust and confidence in business banking that this country so desperately needs. The debates that we have held so far have revealed a substantial coalition across the House for a full tribunal system, alongside a historical case review, that would look again at cases that have been settled by internal bank review processes. The Labour party, the Scottish National party, the Liberal Democrats, the Democratic Unionist party and many individual Conservative MPs certainly hold that view; it is only the Government who do not.

I therefore have some questions for the Minister. First, do the Government agree with the Opposition that where there is evidence from complainants, the historical review process should be willing to consider cases going back to 2000? At present, only those going back to 2008 would be eligible. Secondly, are the Government willing to reconsider their view on the establishment of an independent tribunal system for dispute resolution in order to level the playing field between businesses and their banks? Thirdly, have the Government listened to those people arguing that the expansion of the ombudsman service alone will not solve the problem, as it does not have sufficient resource and capacity to get to the root of the problem, and the mooted compensation cap by the Government looks far too low?

Most of all, do the Government acknowledge that MPs want to see some real action and progress on this? It is disappointing that despite many hours of parliamentary debate and consensus on what must happen next, with agreement stretching across the Treasury Committee, the Opposition, the Financial Conduct Authority, the major banks themselves, such as TSB and Metro, and the all-party parliamentary group on fair business banking, the Government are still reluctant to join this consensus. We all want to be able to tell our constituents that these issues are resolved and simply will not be allowed to happen again.

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I always listen very carefully to the constructive way that he presents his case.

Let me address the hon. Gentleman’s three core questions. First, the historical review process has been as set out, but there is discretion within that. I know that there will be a lively discussion at the first board meeting about how the handling of past cases will be considered. In terms of the disputes over how to resolve this, the role of the Financial Ombudsman Service is being expanded. Its representatives were in Parliament last week offering access to colleagues across the House, and I have visited them to examine what they are doing to recruit the extra resources needed to deal with this extra category. I think that this will work; I would not have made the decision otherwise. The other key consideration I have to balance is about the rapidity and efficiency with which the vast majority of cases—we are talking about 99% of businesses with a turnover of up to £6.5 million—will be able to get a resolution. That is why I think that the ombudsman service is the right way to go forward.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I thank the Minister for all the work he has done in this area. I do feel that we are making progress, but, understandably, the jury is out until we get to the place we need to be. I also thank the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) for tabling such an important question today. There are many issues with this. The case concerned follows a typical pattern. Over 10,000 of these tailored business loans were sold to businesses. It may be impossible for these businesses to refinance because of the exit fees. Personal guarantees were then required, and finance was withdrawn despite the fact that the businesses had never missed a payment. The FCA has looked at this and has said that these cases should be considered by the new dispute resolution scheme, which is good news for many people. I ask the Minister to impress on UK Finance that it makes sure that it suspends any proceedings in any of these cases until they have been reviewed.

[John Glen]

Again, I thank my hon. Friend for the work he has done in this area. I met representatives of UK Finance just a few hours ago, and I am aware of his correspondence overnight on this issue as he joins the board imminently. The key concern I would have is the extrapolation of one case, or a few celebrated cases—tragic cases—to say that they are normative of practices across the sector as a whole. He smiles because he knows that is a conversation we have had frequently. This historical dispute resolution mechanism is not designed as some sop, but as a meaningful mechanism to interrogate wrongdoing in the past and seek resolution for those individuals who remain dissatisfied.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) on securing this urgent question.

The issue of transferring funds to an organisation such as Cerberus is far from the only one. The hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) mentioned businesses that did not have any debt issues whose loans were restructured and who were offered incredibly high and arbitrary repayment terms with incredibly high interest rates. That was completely inappropriate. The restructuring of debt should be tackled in the first place, and not just the transferring over. Nobody should be in the situation in which my hon. Friend’s constituent found himself.

The Minister said that these cases are not necessarily indicative of how everybody has been treated, but we have seen enough of them coming forward, and enough people losing their homes, losing their families, and, in some cases, losing their lives as a result. We know as parliamentarians that we see only the tip of the iceberg in the cases that come into our offices, and that there are probably many, many more that we have not seen and have not raised here.

It is clear from cases like the one that my hon. Friend describes that any system of voluntary redress is not working, and is probably not working in many of the cases that we see coming into our offices. I am concerned that the issue with voluntary redress schemes will also happen with the ombudsman scheme given that it is voluntary and not as all-encompassing as it could be. The Government can still take action and save face. What the Minister has said about the ombudsman system is interesting, but it is not the independent tribunal that we on the fair business banking APPG have been calling for. It does not go far enough on that basis.

The other thing that the Government have failed to do so far is to bring forward a massive, comprehensive review of banking culture to ensure that nothing like this happens again in future so we know that SMEs will not be treated in the same way as they were previously. It is incredibly important for our economy that SMEs can borrow, and they will not be able to do so if they do not trust the banking sector to treat them fairly. If the Government have to step in and ensure that this happens, then that is what needs to happen.

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. There are two things there, and one is the adequacy of the voluntary mechanism. To be fair, it is unclear how it will play out, because it has only just been established. I see from my engagement with the chief executives and chairmen of the banks a massive desire to ensure that this has teeth and can deliver. This is not about the Government saving face. It is about ensuring that this process is effective. I will have deep engagement with and take a close interest in this process, because it must be effective and thorough in its examination of these cases.

I take the wider point that the hon. Lady makes about banking culture. A lot has changed in the last 10 years, and many of these cases arose before that. We now have a very different regulatory environment, with the Prudential Regulation Authority and the FCA, which has changed things considerably, but I will reflect carefully on her comments.

[Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) on securing this urgent question. I had the opportunity recently to meet her constituent John Guidi, and I express my strongest concern for his welfare. Does the Minister accept that just one such example makes the case for introducing a financial services tribunal, to allow business owners to challenge financial institutions and have confidence that they will always be treated on the basis of fair play and justice?

[John Glen]

I have extreme sympathy for everyone who has had the sort of experience that this constituent has had, but I do not think it is right for any Government to make policy on the basis of one case. It is incumbent on Government to set out a framework and a policy that will deliver real answers to complex questions. I do not accept that the regulation of bank lending would be a good step forward. I understand the argument that it would give certainty to small businesses, but my view is that it would discourage a lot of lending, because there would not be the same appetite for lending if that regulation was as onerous as it would likely be.

[Martin Whitfield (East Lothian) (Lab)]

I join others in congratulating the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) on securing this important urgent question. We license and regulate banks to protect customers and because our economy requires SMEs to work as well as they do, but we also need to level the playing field of power between banks, SMEs and individual customers. There is overwhelming evidence that the banks have abused their position of power in the past. If I was at my most sympathetic, I would say that trust in the banking system is at breaking point. I actually fear we have gone beyond that. Is the Financial Conduct Authority really the answer to this, or has the time not come to have a financial services tribunal that SMEs, individual customers and banks can trust to resolve these problems, so that we can move forward?

[John Glen]

I have listened carefully to the hon. Gentleman a number of times. As I have said to him previously, we need an effective mechanism that small businesses can get reliable and efficient access to and answers from. I have seen the investment that has gone into the expanded provisions of the ombudsman service. I know that he is not convinced, but this matter is not set in stone forever. Obviously the service needs to deliver. In my conversations with the chief executive of the ombudsman service, as in my conversations with UK Finance and the chief executive of every bank, I have said that this is the top priority in this area of my portfolio.

[Paul Masterton (East Renfrewshire) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting this urgent question. I have met too many individuals in my constituency who ran serious, sensible businesses and were a model in their borrowing but whose lives have been ruined by the behaviour of unscrupulous banks. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to air this on the Floor of the House.

I understand from my constituent Ian Lightbody that, despite the tireless efforts of him and his CYBG Remediation Support Group, they have not had the courtesy of a response from the CEO and chairman of CYBG, which sums up the complete contempt and disregard of Clydesdale Bank’s senior management for small business owners. Will the Minister join me in demanding that the bank, as a first step, shows some courtesy to these individuals and at least engages with them?

[John Glen]

Yes. I am happy to take up the case of Mr Lightbody and ensure that he gets a conversation with the right people.

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

It is not just in calling for a financial services tribunal that the Treasury Committee has joined the consensus. We have also echoed the concern, based on widespread evidence we received, that the regulatory perimeter needs to be looked at in respect of commercial lending. We urged the Government not to adopt a “wait and see” approach. Having looked at the Government’s response to our inquiry into SME lending and listened to the Minister this afternoon, I think the Government do indeed appear to be taking a “wait and see” approach. When will we see more concrete action to give all business owners the confidence they need that whenever malpractice occurs—it does occur, and it is too widespread—they will see justice and accountability?

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I have set out the expanded remit and role of the ombudsman service and the extension of the money that can be provided. I have also set out the engagement I have had with UK Finance on historical cases. I respectfully say to him that these are very early days—it is only two months since this decision was made, and I look forward to seeing urgent progress.

[Norman Lamb (North Norfolk) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) on asking this important question. Along with effective dispute resolution, a properly functioning banking and financial services sector that commands the trust of the British people relies on brave individuals who are prepared to blow the whistle on wrongdoing within the institutions where they work. Does the Minister agree that it has become increasingly clear that we need enhanced protection so that people feel able to speak out and a regulator that is prepared to stand up for, support and protect whistleblowers when the going gets tough?

[John Glen]

I recognise that we need in the Financial Conduct Authority and the PRA regulators that are able to take appropriate action in a timely way to deal with disputes where they have responsibility. I have regular conversations with the FCA and encourage it to look at different matters. I will obviously be concerned about how the expanded ombudsman service and the redress mechanism work, and nothing is ruled out in the future.

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) on securing this important urgent question. Like many Members, I have constituents whose businesses were successful and would not have gone under had the banks not mistreated them. Does the Minister agree that the FCA should issue strict guidance that the banks should not destroy any documentation relative to ongoing disputes before the historical compensation scheme is established, and if they do so, they should be sanctioned?

[John Glen]

The hon. and learned Lady makes a reasonable point. It would be perverse to shred relevant materials in the context of a provision that they have entered into freely, showing a lot of good will, to try to find resolution and get to a better point of trust between the public and themselves.

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

This is not just about one case. The description that the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) gave of the sale of tailored business loans is identical to the case of my constituent. Furthermore, that constituent has clear, documented and contemporaneous evidence of deliberate false representation by the bank to the Treasury Committee, the Financial Ombudsman Service and the FCA. I venture to say to the Minister, for whom I have a lot of respect, that this is widespread across the banking sector. We have seen the activities of the Royal Bank of Scotland Global Restructuring Group in attacking SMEs. Much as I support the idea of a tribunal, surely now is the time to go further and have a full public inquiry into the character of banking.

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. The key issue for many of these people, who have been waiting for a very long time—sometimes up to 10 or 11 years and longer—is to make sure they can get access to a mechanism that interrogates the evidence and deals with it swiftly. I was not indicating to my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) that we should not say there are not parallels or themes, but I just feel that we have to look at the evidence on a case-by-case basis. I am certain that there is good will in the dispute resolution mechanism to interrogate thoroughly past cases that are unresolved.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

We acknowledge the work that the Government have done to date, and the point the Minister made about the need to strike a balance between banks being able and encouraged to lend and, at the same time, meeting the interests of their customers. Does he agree with me that an equally important balance is that between powerful financial institutions that have all the resources—and sometimes the resources of the state—behind them and small businesses that have been damaged economically by the actions of those banks and very often do not have the resources to fight back? Despite all the measures undertaken, 10 years down the line many are still seeking redress, still finding themselves blocked by the actions of the banks and now, ahead of the historical compensation scheme coming in, finding themselves forced into the courts and perhaps having their cases dealt with before the scheme comes in. Does he not agree that now is the time for an independent financial services tribunal, and for the FCA to make it clear to the banks that, ahead of the historical compensation scheme coming in, no further court action should be taken against individuals?

[John Glen]

I believe the dispute resolution service that has been set up gives the scope to go back over 10 years of disputed cases, and there is a desire to provide quick access. As the right hon. Gentleman points out, some of these cases have been going on for far too long. The situation is that the banks were in a very bad place with respect to the power they wielded over individuals and small businesses. They want to sort this out, and that is why they have engaged constructively in the construction of this dispute resolution service.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

Like other Members who have spoken, I have a number of constituents whose businesses were ruined by the actions of the banks. I think this is a much larger-scale problem than the Minister perhaps implied in some of his earlier answers. It is about an imbalance of power in the relationship between the banks and their customers. The banks have had years to provide redress and they have had years of a voluntary system in that regard, so how is a new voluntary tribunal system going to provide the redress the banks need to provide? Surely the time will come when the Minister will need to make this a mandatory system to provide the justice needed by small business customers who were ruined?

[John Glen]

We have not in recent times had a system set up to give quick access in relation to disputes over the past 10 years, and my concern was to provide something that is effective and deals with all the issues that have been raised over the time I have been in office.

[Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)]

Given the personal cost of this—destroyed businesses, personal bankruptcy, mental health pressures, suicide and now a hunger strike—many of these people will not have the ability or the stomach for a historical review. Moving forward, may I tell the Minister that there is little confidence, including from the Treasury Committee, that the FOS has the ability, capacity or expertise to do the work it has been asked to do? I hope the Minister will listen—I am sure he will—to those in all parts of this House who are saying there is now an unanswerable argument for an independent financial services tribunal.

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, and I have responded to I think nine debates in this Chamber and in Westminster Hall on this matter. I am very aware of the pitch and the breadth of concern that exists on this matter and the urgency in getting some outcomes that actually deliver for our constituents, and I will continue to work towards that aim.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

I think the hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) hit the nail on the head. Let me give the House an example. A couple of years ago, when the Clydesdale proposed to shut its branch in my home town of Tain, I had a meeting with it and representatives of a highly successful local fish-processing business, and the Clydesdale was at pains to say, “Yes, we’re going to shut the branch, but you can use the post office locally.” Well, a fat lot of good that was, because the post office was too small, and I have raised that several times in this House. Now, in the next few days, that post office is going to close, and we will have no Clydesdale branch and no Royal Bank of Scotland branch in my home town. What good is that to SMEs? It is useless for business. I back the hon. Gentleman all the way: the time has come for a full inquiry into these banks, which, in my opinion, are completely out of control.

[John Glen]

As has been discussed in numerous debates, the changing face of the high street bank causes considerable concern for our constituents. We have a protocol in place on the relationship with the Post Office and, from memory, I think something like 97% of people in this country live within three miles of and have access to a post office. I think the hon. Gentleman needs—

[Jamie Stone]

Not in my constituency.

[John Glen]

The hon. Gentleman needs to reflect on the fact that there will not be a one-size-fits-all approach across the whole of the United Kingdom, and the banks are willing to look at individual solutions in different circumstances. I would be very happy to meet him to discuss that further.

[Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)]

There is probably no more appropriate Member to have raised this than my hon. Friend the Member for Lanark and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) because, as Members will appreciate, Clydesdale is in fact the historical name for a great part of the constituency that she represents.

Does the Minister accept that no form of redress can ever be good enough once a business has gone bust and the owners of the business and their families have been put through 10 years or more of hell? What assurances can he give us that any future scheme of redress will become active and effective when there is still time to save businesses that, in the vast majority of cases, have operated lawfully within the rules and have been successful businesses? These businesses would not have been targeted if they had not been successful.

[John Glen]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. He expresses exactly why I think it is so urgent that we get on and get the banks to engage in this historical dispute resolution mechanism and look at the detail, so that they are in a position to give compensation urgently. People have been waiting too long, and where such evidence exists, the banks need to respond appropriately and swiftly.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I thank the Minister for his response on these issues. As he knows, I have met him on a number of occasions with my constituents to do with their problems, and I just want to put on the record the desperation that they feel. Yesterday, some of them attended the Irish schools— St Patrick’s Day—cup final to protest about Danske Bank, with “Shame on you” on their yellow hi-vis vests to highlight the issue. The Minister quite clearly knows that their story is dreadful—he has seen it—as it all too often involves health issues. When it comes to financial redress, it is compensation we are after. Has the Minister had any opportunity to address the issue of compensation, particularly the issues of the Danske Bank in Northern Ireland, which has false-changed my constituents?

[John Glen]

I do not personally have investigative powers, but I do recognise the need to have compensation. That is why we have an increased compensation threshold in the Financial Ombudsman Service, and nothing is ruled out with respect to the resolution mechanism. I would like to acknowledge the work that the hon. Gentleman puts in, and I thank him for his email at 9 am on Boxing day, but I was just surprised he had a day off.

Treasury

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2019 Ministerial Corrections

The following is an extract from the First Delegated Legislation Committee on the draft Packaged Retail and Insurance-based Investment Products (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

Any amendments to fix the exit deficiencies would have to be made known to the Treasury, and any new binding technical standards derived from this ongoing review will also have to come from the Treasury and will have to be laid under the affirmative procedure.

[Official Report, First Delegated Legislation Committee, 20 February 2019, c. 9.]

Letter of correction from the Economic Secretary to the Treasury.

An error has been identified in my response to the hon. Members for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) and for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds).

The correct statement should have been:

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

Any amendments to fix the exit deficiencies would have to be made known to the Treasury, and any changes to binding technical standards derived from this ongoing review will also have to be made known to the Treasury.

Draft Financial Services (Miscellaneous) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2019 General Committees

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Financial Services (Miscellaneous) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

May I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bailey? As the Committee will be aware, the Treasury has been undertaking a programme of legislation to ensure that, if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period, there continues to be a functioning legislative and regulatory regime for financial services in the UK. The Treasury has been laying statutory instruments under the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to deliver that, and most of them have now been debated and approved and are in place for exit day should they be needed. The SI being debated today is one of the final parts of the programme. I believe it is the 51st SI and the 31st debate in which I have taken part.

The instrument revokes a number of pieces of UK domestic law and retained EU law that it would not be appropriate to keep on the statute book after exit. It also makes amendments to a number of financial services EU exit SIs to reflect other instruments that have been laid as part of the wider legislative programme, corrects minor errors identified in legislation after making and makes amendments to ensure consistency between EU exit instruments.

Turning to the substance of the SI, it has five main components. First, the SI amends UK domestic law to ensure continuity with other legislation that has been amended under the 2018 Act. Specifically, it makes amendments to primary and secondary legislation that does not fall within the remit of changes made by other instruments. Specifically, the SI removes references to EU institutions and regimes in four Acts of Parliament: the Insolvency Act 1986, the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, the Income Tax Act 2007 and the Corporation Tax Act 2009. The amendments will ensure that provisions that are irrelevant in a UK-only context are not retained on the UK statute book. The SI also makes minor technical amendments to seven pieces of secondary legislation to reflect changes made by other legislation. For example, it updates the definition of “credit institution” as introduced by the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

Secondly, the SI makes minor technical amendments to 12 other financial services EU exit instruments that have been previously debated by the House. A number of the amendments are being made in this instrument because they are consequential on other instruments that have only recently been made, such as the Equivalence Determinations for Financial Services and Miscellaneous Provisions (Amendment etc) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. A minority of the amendments correct drafting errors and improve the clarity of drafting. For example, a duplicate provision is omitted from the Bank of England (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018, as the same amendment is made by the Deposit Guarantee Scheme and Miscellaneous Provisions (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018.

At this point, it would be appropriate for me to acknowledge the enormous amount of work done by my colleagues in the Treasury to minimise the number of amendments that have been necessary. We are talking about 10 or 12 in 1,000 pages of SIs.

Thirdly, the SI revokes three UK statutory instruments that relate to EU regimes that will not be applicable to the UK in the event of a no-deal exit, given that they implement EU law that is being revoked at exit day under separate instruments.

Fourthly, the SI makes amendments to or revokes retained EU law to ensure consistency with other EU exit instruments that have been made and to remove references to EU institutions that will no longer be relevant post-exit. For example, part of regulation 33 revokes EU regulations providing for functions and administration of the European Central Bank.

Finally, the SI makes transitional and saving provisions to address deficiencies that arise from the UK’s withdrawal from the EU and to limit disruption to the financial services industry if the UK leaves without a deal. For example, a minor change is made to article 7 of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) Order 2001, which excludes deposits held in lawyers’ client accounts from being regulated under financial services law, as they are already regulated by the Law Society. European-registered lawyers are currently included in the exemption, and the SI ensures that the exemption will continue for a limited period after Brexit. A transitional regime is also made for group supervision under the Solvency 2 and Insurance (Amendment, etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, so that where a group is supervised by an EEA supervisor, the relevant provisions that impose requirements on the Prudential Regulation Authority as a group supervisor do not apply for a period of two years after exit day.

The Treasury has worked closely with the financial services regulators in the drafting of the EU exit instruments amended by the instrument. We have also engaged extensively with the financial services industry on the instruments to which the SI relates. In summary, the Government believe that the proposed legislation is necessary to ensure that the UK has a coherent and functioning financial services regulatory regime once it leaves the EU, and that the legislation will continue to function appropriately if it leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period. I hope hon. Members will join me in supporting the regulations, which I commend to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde for his comments. I acknowledge the courteous and thorough way in which he has gone about his work. Where there have been differences between us, he has raised them in the spirit of constructive scrutiny, and he has worked extremely hard with his team. As someone who was responsible for supporting the shadow Chancellor in a previous era, I know how challenging it is to do that sort of work, so I pay tribute to his office and those who have supported him. I will thank my hon. Friends at a later point, because I still have more to do.

The hon. Gentleman raises significant and substantive points. I cannot assist him with respect to the timing of the Financial Services (Implementation of Legislation) Bill. I acknowledge that the Bill is outstanding, but at this point in time I am not in a position to give him the information he seeks.

The hon. Gentleman referred to the move from negative to affirmative process. I undertake to write to him about that. My understanding is that it was moved in that direction because of the sheer volume of small amendments. I reassure him that it was always envisaged when this process was designed, and when I saw that spreadsheet back in October, that there would be mop-up measures given the nature of the complexity of the exercise.

I reassure the hon. Gentleman that there have been no meaningful policy changes through this SI. These are technical changes, often to remove reference to the EU, and the drafting errors are a significant minority. Nevertheless, I will reflect fully on his comments and where I can offer him some more substantive words of reassurance I will do so.

Having given that response, I hope that the comments I made on the necessity for this SI in ensuring a functioning and coherent legislative and regulatory regime for financial services have been heard. I commend this regulation to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Child Trust Funds

John Glen Excerpts

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Westminster Hall

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) on securing this debate; I recognise that she has taken a keen interest in the issue and has been a doughty campaigner on matters of childcare and child poverty, following her 11 months as a Minister in the last Labour Government. I also acknowledge and will try to address the points made by other hon. Members.

The Government share the commitment of hon. Members of all parties to supporting people to save at every stage of life, irrespective of income or background. Financial inclusion is one of my key priorities as Economic Secretary, and in the past year I have met many organisations and experts in the field. I strongly believe that learning financial skills at a young age equips young people to make better decisions when they are older, so I am pleased to have this opportunity to set out the Government’s view.

The Government introduced junior individual savings accounts in place of child trust funds in November 2011, providing continued tax incentives to encourage families to put money away for their children’s future. Under legislation introduced in 2015, existing child trust fund accounts can be transferred into a junior ISA, providing families with the flexibility to choose the right option for their child. The Government also sought to make specific provision for children in care; as the hon. Lady pointed out, we contracted the Share Foundation to work with local authorities to open a junior ISA account on behalf of looked-after children.

The Government currently pay £200 into the accounts of children who have been in care for at least one year. The Department for Education has provided the Share Foundation with funding totalling £531,624 for that administration, and 120,000 payments of £200 have been made to children in care since 2012. We want those children to leave care with money to their name and the means to continue saving as they become independent. I should stress that junior ISAs are just one element of our work to promote financial education among young people. We want all children to enter the world of work understanding the importance of budgeting and saving, so financial literacy is now taught as part of the citizenship curriculum for 11 to 16-year-olds.

Let me turn to the so-called lost child trust funds, which were the core of the hon. Lady’s speech. There are many complex and overlapping reasons for the lack of engagement, but the Government are working with industry to actively seek holders of the accounts. Child trust fund providers are required to send regular statements to the child’s last known address and are taking steps to trace those who have moved. They have a statutory obligation to send such statements on the child’s seventh, 10th and 15th birthday, but in line with Financial Conduct Authority guidance, most do so annually.

The national insurance notification letter that HMRC sends to all 16-year-olds has recently been amended to include details about how child trust funds can be located; the hon. Lady referred to the size and colour of the font used, which is clearly a matter that I can take on board and examine. I also draw hon. Members’ attention to HMRC’s online tracing tool, which is available via gov.uk. Of course, people can still contact HMRC by telephone or post if they so choose.

[Chris Ruane]

May I put to the Minister the same question that I put to my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman)? The Share Foundation was able to give her statistics on the distribution among socioeconomic groups, but when I tabled questions to the Treasury asking for exactly the same information, it was not available. When I asked for estimates by nation and region, that information was not available. When I asked what additional resources had been allocated to assist in locating child trust fund accounts, that information was not available either. Can the Minister supply it today?

[John Glen]

I am grateful for that question about the regional and income breakdown of the distribution of child trust funds. Such information is published by HMRC and discriminates by region and county and by whether additional contributions were made; no income distribution data is collected by HMRC. I am happy to look into the matter further; if I can give the hon. Gentleman any more information, I will write to him.

Looking to the future, approximately 6 million child trust funds have not yet been transferred to junior ISAs. The first of those accounts will mature next September, and a further 55,000 will mature every month thereafter until 2029. What young people choose to do with their money is ultimately a matter for them, but we want them to engage in the process so that they can make the best decision for their individual circumstances.

[Helen Goodman]

As I have explained to the Minister, the problem is that people cannot use the Government website to access their accounts if they do not have a payslip, a P60 or a passport. Will the Minister address that point? Hundreds of thousands of young people will be in that situation.

[John Glen]

The key question is how an individual child knows what they have. The hon. Lady’s allegation is that this money is lost, but it is not lost; it is just that the individuals have not come to the point at which they can engage with it, which will happen at age 16 when they get a letter with their national insurance number. At 16, they are allowed to make decisions about their investment choices for that fund, and at 18 they can access it. They get the letter, along with their national insurance information, at 16, the age when they can start making individual decisions about that money. I think it has been suggested that the Share Foundation should interrogate data from the Department for Work and Pensions, cross-reference it with HMRC’s, and somehow write to these individuals—

[Helen Goodman]

That is not what I said.

[John Glen]

Well, that point has been made in other forums. I am just trying to respond completely to the points that have been raised generally.

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

What plans does the Minister have to encourage eligible parents, and children when they turn 16, to access this money? Is it not the responsibility of the Government to do some kind of public awareness campaign to say, “Hey, look—here’s your investment that the Government made for you. This is how you access it.” Let us make this a can-do exercise.

[John Glen]

The key point is that children have access to this money when they are 18, but can influence decisions about it from the age of 16, when they are paying tax and have a national insurance number. They will gain that access mechanism when they secure their national insurance number. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland made a point about how this issue should be depicted on the form when 16-year-olds get their NI number, but that number provides the key to unlock awareness of, and access to, the fund that has been invested for them.

[Helen Goodman]

I do not like to denigrate my former profession, but I do not think the Minister has been very well briefed. According to the Share Foundation, the lost accounts of the most wealthy number 54,000, the middle income 560,000, and the poorest 444,000. Those are not families in which the child is already 16 to 18; it includes all families. It means that the addressee has gone away. We do not know whether the address we have got is the right address for that group of people.

[John Glen]

The point I am making is that all individuals, no matter what their background is, will gain access to the funds at the point when they can gain their national insurance number, by reference to the letter that has been provided. I have had extensive conversations with my officials, and I note the hon. Lady’s reference to bureaucrats. She worked for over 20 years at the Treasury—I have the highest regard for it and the accuracy of the material it has given me.

No funds or accounts have been lost. All child trust funds have been managed by child trust fund providers—either by the original provider with which the account was set up, or by a subsequent provider to which the funds have been transferred. There are 69 providers currently managing child trust funds, and the Share Foundation’s analysis appears to be based on accounts held with just one provider: the Share Centre, which represents only 1.5% of the number of accounts. The hon. Lady might want to contradict that by extrapolating the data to all of them, but the Government are working together with the industry to encourage child trust fund holders to re-engage with their accounts.

As I said, we have developed an online tracing mechanism and recently amended the national insurance notification letter to 16-year-olds to include a reference to child trust funds. That happened in January in order to take into account the points raised. Any account holders who are unable to retrieve their account details online are encouraged to contact HMRC directly.

[Helen Goodman]

I have just explained to the Minister that to get through to the website, people must have other documents that—by definition—16-year-olds do not and cannot have. The system is not working. The Minister needs to rethink how the website works!

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen]

I do not think that the hon. Lady’s raising her voice in an aggressive manner is going to help anyone. I have just set out the Government’s position and explained the detail of the provision. The hon. Lady has extrapolated some figures from one piece of analysis by one of the providers, which is not a reliable way of carrying on. I have told her about the action we took in January.

The issue is not just about the online portal, but about being able to call up HMRC. Last year’s Budget included a commitment to consult on draft regulations that will ensure that investments currently held in child trust fund accounts can retain their tax-free status after maturity. The consultation will take place later this spring, when the Government will lay regulations before the House, well in advance of the first accounts maturing in September 2020.

In summary, both junior ISAs and child trust funds allow parents and guardians to save on behalf of their children, tax free. People have the option to convert their child trust fund into a junior ISA, and we are working with providers to reunite dormant accounts with their intended owners. However, all remaining child trust funds will continue to enjoy tax-free status, even after they mature. The amount that young people can save in child trust funds and junior ISAs will increase by the rate of inflation in April—it is currently £4,260 a year.

[Chris Ruane]

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland that the system is not working. As a way out, would the Minister consider meeting people who have sufficient knowledge—I would include my hon. Friend—or perhaps citizens advice bureaux, the Share Foundation and a panel of parents, so that some answers can be given to the questions that have been raised?

[John Glen]

On behalf of the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi), who is the Minister responsible for this area and is currently before a Select Committee, I would be very happy to offer a meeting with hon. Members to discuss this matter further. It is his responsibility, and I am sure he would be very happy to attend.

We have made efforts to provide young people with savings to draw on as they reach adulthood, and we hope this encourages further saving at every stage of life. The points made by the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland on access have been comprehensively addressed by the Government’s sending a letter to 16-year-olds.

[Helen Goodman]

They have not!

[John Glen]

I understand that the hon. Lady is not satisfied with my response. Meeting with the Minister would probably be the best way forward.

[Helen Goodman]

Will the Minister take on board my suggestion of writing to the recipient of the child benefit when the person turns 18? The Government writes to every mother across the entire nation, and that would be an opportunity to catch them in the net.

[John Glen]

The key point here is: when does somebody have access to make investment decisions as a young person? It is when they turn 16, and then they can access it when they are 18. Trying to overlap the letter with the mother when actually it is about the beneficiary, who is the child, is not the route to go down.

[Helen Goodman]

indicated dissent.

[John Glen]

The best way forward would be for the hon. Lady, who is clearly shaking her head and dissatisfied, to meet my colleague from the Department for Education. Hopefully, that will provide her with the answers she needs.

Question put and agreed to.

Draft Uncertificated Securities (Amendment and EU Exit) Regulations 2019

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2019 General Committees

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Uncertificated Securities (Amendment and EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

It is a pleasure to serve once again under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma.

The Treasury is laying this statutory instrument under both the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and the European Communities Act 1972. The Treasury has been undertaking a programme of legislation to ensure that if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period there continues to be a functioning legislative and regulatory regime for financial services in the UK. This draft SI is part of that programme. It has been debated by the House of Lords and was approved on 25 February. The SI also uses the powers in section 2(2) of the European Communities Act to amend UK law as necessary to ensure that the directly applicable EU central securities depository regulation, or CSDR, operates effectively in the UK.

The draft regulations amend the Uncertificated Securities Regulations 2001, or USRs, which concern the registering and transfer of securities such as bonds or shares electronically on computer-based systems. Certain requirements within the USRs are also subject to the CSDR, which creates a common authorisation, supervision and regulatory framework for central security depositaries, or CSDs, across the EU. The SI makes the necessary changes to UK legislation to ensure that the EU regime operates effectively in the UK. The instrument also contains provisions to address deficiencies in UK law and retained EU law that arise due to the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union.

The changes to the USRs that implement CSDR will come into effect on the day after the draft regulations are made in Parliament in any scenario. However, the changes made under the EU (Withdrawal) Act to fix deficiencies in the legislation arising as a result of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU will only come into effect on exit day in the event that the UK leaves without a deal or an implementation period.

First, the draft regulations make amendments to ensure that the USRs align with both the EU regulation and the UK implementing legislation concerning the CSDR. That includes authorisation and recognition of CSDs and article 49 of the CSDR. Article 49 allows issuers the right to issue securities into a CSD in any European economic area member state. Accordingly, amendments have been made to ensure that no provisions in the USRs are incompatible with that right. By removing the duplication between CSDR and USR requirements for operators of relevant systems, the instrument provides clarity to the industry in the area. Further, USR operators now gain operator status by virtue of gaining authorised CSD, EEA CSD or third-country CSD status for CSDR purposes, not via the USR recognition regime, which will be revoked by this SI.

Secondly, the SI will provide transitional provisions for UK operators of systems that were approved under the USRs before 30 March 2017, when the period for CSDs to apply for authorisation or recognition under the CSDR began. That transitional power ensures that operators can continue to operate under the previous USR regime, pending their authorisation or recognition as a CSD under the EU CSDR regime. The SI also inserts a provision into the UK’s Central Securities Depositories Regulations 2014 that grants the Bank of England the power to charge fees to third-country CSDs. That is considered necessary in relation to its new role in recognising third-country CSDs following exit day. That role was granted by the Central Securities Depositories (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018, which have been agreed by this House.

Finally, the draft regulations amend article 15 of the EU short selling regulation to change its scope from the EU to the UK. The change ensures legal certainty on the scope of that provision after exit day. To maximise transparency, the Treasury has worked closely on the instrument with the Financial Conduct Authority, the Bank of England and industry. The Treasury consulted on changes to the uncertificated securities regulations as part of implementing the CSDR in 2015, and undertook an informal consultation with industry in October 2018. The current form of the instrument, which includes EU exit changes, was laid on 17 January 2019.

Provisions relating to the consultation are dealt with in parts 1 to 4. Part 5 of the instrument deals with the EU exit changes.

[Mr Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire) (Con)]

On the consultation that the Treasury has undertaken, I note that the instrument provides for a requirement for a statutory review within five years. Does the Minister have a position on how soon it may be necessary to review the instrument?

[John Glen]

I am sorry, but I do not have a position on that at this point in time.

[Mr Jayawardena]

What discussions have there been between the FCA, the Treasury and the Bank to determine the level of the fees the Bank can charge other than to meet the expenses incurred?

[John Glen]

I am sure that my hon. Friend will understand that the Bank of England routinely issues fees under many financial services regulations. This power is consistent with that general responsibility and will be exercised in consultation with those subject to the fee, as in all the other areas of regulation the Bank engages with.

Regulators and industry have welcomed the Government’s approach to the SI. The Government believe that the proposed legislation is necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of UK financial markets if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period. Relevant parts of the SI are also needed in any scenario to ensure the effective functioning of the CSDR. I hope that colleagues will join me in supporting the regulations, which I commend to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Members for Stalybridge and Hyde and for Glasgow Central for their observations, and I welcome their broad agreement with the main elements of the SI. Both made significant observations on the fees. Why does this SI contain a provision on the Bank of England fees? As a result of the UK leaving the EU and the changes made by the Central Securities Depositories (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018, the Bank of England will have the power to recognise third-country CSDs. On why the Bank of England collects fees for the FCA, this SI concerns the Bank of England fees only. The assessment of other countries charging fees is a decision for other jurisdictions, so I do not have any clear observations on that.

The hon. Member for Glasgow Central asked how the SI had changed since the 2015 consultation draft. A central aim of this instrument is to implement the right, under article 49 of the EU CSD regulation 2014, for issuers of securities to use a CSD established in any EU member state. The 2015 consultation draft instrument contemplated that the uncertificated securities regulations might be extended to apply to securities governed by a foreign law.

Following industry feedback, the Treasury changed its approach so the uncertificated securities regulations would not be extended to foreign law-governed securities where article 49 is used. In order to avoid duplication and to provide legal certainty, the 2015 consultation draft instrument removed provisions from the existing uncertificated securities regulations, which are now governed by the EU central securities depositories regulation 2014. This element has not changed.

The hon. Lady asked about the regulators’ resourcing and the impact of taking on provisions of this SI. We are confident that the regulators are making adequate preparations and are effectively allocating resources ahead of the end of March. They have considerable experience and technical expertise. We have participated in a large number of groups with them and I am confident they are well resourced and ready for all outcomes.

I acknowledge the broader points made by all three Members about the Bank of England’s fee-raising powers. I will evaluate thoroughly what has been said, and where I can bring greater clarity following discussion with officials, I will write to the Committee if that is appropriate.

The Government believe that the proposed legislation is necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of financial markets in the UK if it leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period. Relevant parts of this SI are also needed in any scenario to ensure the effective functioning of the CSDR. I hope my comments clarify matters sufficiently and that the Committee will be able to support these regulations.

Question put and agreed to.

Draft Mortgage Credit (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Financial Services (Distance Marketing) (Amendment and Savings Provisions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 11th March 2019 General Committees

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Mortgage Credit (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to consider the draft Financial Services (Distance Marketing) (Amendment and Savings Provisions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

[John Glen]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon. As the Committee will be aware, the Treasury has been undertaking a legislative programme under the auspices of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to ensure that if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period, there continues to be a functioning legislative and regulatory regime for financial services in the UK. A number of debates—some 29, I believe—have been undertaken in this place and in the House of Lords about statutory instruments that are part of that programme.

That figure includes the two SIs that are to be debated today, which fix deficiencies in UK law relating to the regulation of consumer buy-to-let mortgages and the distance marketing of consumer financial services. These two SIs were debated and approved in the House of Lords on 5 March 2019. The approach taken in this legislation aligns with that of other SIs that have been laid before the House under the withdrawal Act: to provide continuity by maintaining existing legislation at the point of exit, but amending where necessary to ensure that the regime works effectively in a no-deal context.

The first SI, the draft Mortgage Credit (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, concerns the regulation of consumer buy-to-let mortgages. Many members of the Committee will be familiar with the Mortgage Credit Directive Order 2015, which implemented the 2014 mortgage credit directive in the UK. That order established a national framework regulating consumer buy-to-let mortgage contracts. A consumer buy-to-let mortgage is a loan that can be offered to a borrower who is letting out their home, but not for the purpose of business or as an investment. In the event of a no-deal exit, the UK would be outside the European economic area and the EU’s legal, supervisory and financial regulatory framework. The mortgage credit directive order therefore needs to be updated to ensure that provisions work properly in a no-deal scenario.

This SI makes three main changes to the regulatory regime of consumer buy-to-let mortgages. First, it amends the territorial scope of regulated consumer buy-to-let lending, so that in future it applies only to lending relating to property in the UK, not in the EEA. That change will apply to a very small number of loans, and will not affect consumer buy-to-let lending relating to land in the EEA that was entered into before exit day, which will continue to be covered by Financial Conduct Authority regulation.

Secondly, the SI amends the rules on consumer buy-to-let foreign currency mortgages. A foreign currency mortgage is a loan denominated in a different currency to that of the borrower’s income or assets. The SI equips lenders who lend to UK borrowers through a consumer buy-to-let foreign currency mortgage with the option to allow borrowers to convert their loan into pounds sterling, in order to meet the requirement to protect borrowers from exchange rate risk. Under current arrangements, the 2015 order prescribes that when a lender protects a borrower from exchange rate risk by allowing that borrower to convert the loan into a different currency, that currency must be that of the EEA state in which the borrower is resident, or the currency in which the borrower holds their main income or assets. Once the UK leaves the EU, the pound sterling will no longer be an EEA currency, and this provision has been made to ensure that UK borrowers with those types of loans can continue to convert them into pounds sterling.

Thirdly, the SI transfers from the European Commission to the Treasury the responsibility to update the remarks and assumptions that accompany the calculation of the annual percentage rate of charge. The APRC is a standardised calculation of the cost of credit that provides the borrower with the total cost of the mortgage over its full term. It is necessary to confer this power on the Treasury to ensure the APRC remains accurate post-exit. On 22 November 2018, the Treasury published this SI in draft form, along with an explanatory policy note to maximise transparency for Parliament and the industry.

Turning to the draft Financial Services (Distance Marketing) (Amendment and Savings Provisions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, this statutory instrument will fix deficiencies in UK law related to the distance marketing of consumer financial services, such as by telephone, email or fax, to ensure the regime operates effectively post exit.

The UK’s regulatory regime for the distance marketing of consumer financial services stems from the EU’s distance marketing directive. Currently, EEA financial services firms that carry out distance marketing from an EEA establishment to UK consumers are not subject to the UK’s distance marketing regime. This is on the basis that such firms are subject to equivalent regulation in their own EEA state, as the distance marketing directive operates on a country of origin basis. As a result, the UK’s distance marketing regime, which consists of both FCA rules and the distance marketing regulations, applies only to firms undertaking activity from a UK establishment. Broadly, firms operating from an establishment in the UK, and which undertake regulated activity, are subject to FCA distance marketing rules, and firms undertaking unregulated activity from an establishment in the UK are subject to the distance marketing regulations. Nevertheless, some of the distance marketing regulations apply to all activity, whether regulated or unregulated.

Should the UK leave the EU without a deal, retained EU and domestic law relating to the regulation of distance marketing and financial services needs to be amended to ensure that such provisions operate effectively. By making these changes, we will ensure firms continue to supply consumers with the information that they need to make decisions about financial services products.

To address deficiencies stemming from exit, the regulations will remove EU references that will no longer have legal effect. However, they will maintain the distance marketing regime as set out in the distance marketing directive. More materially, and to ensure that consumers continue to receive the appropriate information from firms undertaking distance marketing, they expand the scope, where necessary, of the Financial Services (Distance Marketing) Regulations 2004, which will now cover certain EEA firms that will operate in the UK post exit under one of the temporary permission regimes that have previously been debated by the House.

Passporting EEA firms operating in the UK are regulated to the same standard in their home state, as they will be subject to the distance marketing directive and, as a result, the UK’s distance marketing regime does not apply to them. However, the onshored distance marketing regulations will now cover certain EEA firms that will operate in the UK post-exit under a temporary permission. FCA rules will also be amended where appropriate, ensuring that such firms will be subject to the UK’s distance marketing regime and that consumer protection is maintained.

The Treasury has worked closely with the Financial Conduct Authority in the drafting of the regulations. It has also engaged with the financial services industry, and will continue to do so going forward. On 12 December 2018, the Treasury published the distance marketing regulations in draft, along with an explanatory policy note to maximise transparency for Parliament and the industry.

In summary, the Government believe that the proposed legislation is necessary to fix deficiencies arising as a result of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, both to maintain compliant practices for UK mortgage lending activity and so that the UK distance marketing regime continues to protect consumers, and to ensure that the legislation continues to function appropriately if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period. I hope colleagues will join me in supporting the regulations and I commend them to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde for his questions, which I shall seek to address. On the mortgage credit regulations, the amendments to the territorial scope of regulated consumer buy-to-let lending and the effect they will have on contracts, lending relating to land in the EEA outside the UK that was entered into after the implementation of the mortgage credit directive but before exit day, and which is currently supervised under the consumer buy-to-let regime, will continue to be covered by FCA regulation under that regime. The regulatory status of post-exit lending to consumers relating to any property outside the UK will be decided under the regulatory regime for consumer credit, as is the case currently for lending relating to property outside the UK. The hon. Gentleman referred to the impact assessment. A de minimis impact assessment was undertaken for both draft instruments and found that the changes made are technical and will have minimal impact on business.

The hon. Gentleman referred to assumptions concerning the APRC. Assumptions behind the APRC cover a wide range of influences that affect credit agreements, ensuring that the APRC reflects the commercial situation of the UK mortgage market, and that it is calculated in a uniform manner. I am not quite clear about his point on further comments that might be made, but I will endeavour to examine his comments carefully, and where I can offer further substantiation, I will do so.

The hon. Member for Feltham and Heston, in her interaction with the shadow Minister, made observations about consumer protections. The changes proposed in the draft regulations do not affect existing consumer protections and the FCA will continue to regulate consumer buy-to-let loans taken out in relation to an EEA property outside the UK before exit day. The regulatory status of post-exit lending to consumers relating to any property outside the UK will be decided under the regulatory regime for consumer credit, as is currently the case for property outside the EEA.

On the draft distance marketing regulations, the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde referred to a review launched within the EU in December 2018. The Treasury will take a close interest in that in all circumstances. Obviously, if we leave with a deal, we will face a different scenario in how we onshore the regulations, which will ultimately depend on the passage of the in-flight files Bill. However, no reduction in our regulatory oversight is intended as a consequence of the draft regulations.

I will look very carefully at the text of the hon. Gentleman’s speech, and if he raised any other points that I have not responded to, I will seek to get back to him, but I do not think I can add anything else at this point. In conclusion, the regulations are needed to ensure that legislation concerning consumer buy-to-let mortgages continue to function appropriately if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or implementation period, and that consumers continue to receive the appropriate information in distance marketing about the financial services products that they might seek. I hope the Committee finds those explanations at least adequate, and that we might now be able to agree the draft regulations.

Question put and agreed to.

DRAFT FINANCIAL SERVICES (DISTANCE MARKETING) (AMENDMENT AND SAVINGS PROVISIONS) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Financial Services (Distance Marketing) (Amendment and Savings Provisions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(John Glen.)

Draft Investment Exchanges, Clearing Houses and Central Securities Depositories (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 11th March 2019 General Committees

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Investment Exchanges, Clearing Houses and Central Securities Depositories (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Davies. The Treasury has laid this statutory instrument under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and the European Communities Act 1972. The Treasury has undertaken a programme of legislation to ensure that if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period, there will continue to be a functioning legislative and regulatory regime for financial services in the United Kingdom. This statutory instrument, which was debated and approved by the House of Lords on 25 February, is part of that programme.

The regulations address legal deficiencies in parts of the domestic legislation that outline certain regulatory requirements for recognised investment exchanges, European economic area market operators, central counterparties and central securities depositories operating in the UK. Those entities facilitate the trading, clearing and settlement of financial instruments, and are therefore significant for the functioning of the UK’s financial markets. Amendments introduced through the instrument are generally technical and do not intend to make policy changes, other than where appropriate to reflect the UK’s new position outside the EU and to ensure a smooth transition.

I will describe the key amendments that the instrument makes to the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000. First, as a consequence of the UK exiting the EU, the European Securities and Markets Authority will no longer carry out functions to determine whether third-country CCPs and CSDs can provide services in the UK post-exit. Those responsibilities are being transferred to the Bank of England through other statutory instruments that have previously been debated in Committee. To ensure that the Bank of England can carry out those new functions effectively, the instrument contains appropriate consequential amendments to reflect that in domestic law.

As the definition of a third-country CSD will change—to refer to any CSD located outside the UK, rather than any CSD located outside the EEA—the instrument deletes redundant references to the term “EEA CSD”. The instrument also provides the Bank of England with the appropriate supervisory powers over third-country CSDs, such as the power to require information and to inspect any UK branch of a third-country CSD.

Secondly, in line with those changes, a provision within FSMA that currently applies to the Prudential Regulation Authority is being extended to the Bank of England. The relevant provision places a duty on the Bank of England to take such steps as it feels are appropriate to co-operate with other persons, whether in the UK or elsewhere, who have similar regulatory or financial stability functions. That provision is being extended to the Bank of England to ensure that co-operation continues in relation to the new functions that it is taking on as part of the legislation.

Thirdly, the instrument removes the FSMA provisions that relate to the exercise of EEA passporting rights by EEA market operators into the UK, and the provisions that allow recognised investment exchanges to make passporting arrangements into EEA states, given that the UK will be a third country in a no-deal scenario. That means that any EEA market operator currently operating in the UK via a passport could no longer do so from exit day, just as UK-recognised investment exchanges could no longer passport into EEA states.

Instead, EEA market operators that currently make use of passport rights can, if they wish, make use of the third-country regimes for investment exchanges that are provided for in UK law to carry on their activities in the UK. For example, they may seek to apply to the Financial Conduct Authority to become a recognised overseas investment exchange. The FCA published information that outlines how firms can do that on its website on 14 September 2018.

Fourthly, the statutory instrument removes obligations that relate to information sharing and co-operation with EU authorities, again to reflect the UK’s position outside the EU in a no-deal scenario. That is consistent with other statutory instruments previously approved by Parliament under the EU (Withdrawal) Act, and does not preclude the UK authorities from co-operating with their EU counterparts in the future.

Specifically, this instrument removes the obligation for the FCA to inform ESMA and the competent authorities of EEA member states when it suspends or removes a financial instrument from trading on a venue that falls under its jurisdiction. However, the FCA will still be required to make such decisions public. In addition, the FCA will no longer be obliged to require venues under its jurisdiction to suspend or remove a financial instrument from trading if the FCA becomes aware that the same instrument has been suspended or removed from trading in an EEA member state.

Finally, this instrument makes a number of amendments and consequential amendments to other legislation, principally the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Recognition Requirements for Investment Exchanges, Clearing Houses and Central Securities Depositories) Regulations 2001. These amendments make various necessary changes to those instruments, such as amending definitions to ensure consistency with definitions used in other EU exit SIs, including the Markets in Financial Instruments (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018, the Central Counterparties (Amendment, etc., and Transitional Provision) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018 and the Central Securities Depositories (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018, all of which have previously been debate in this place.

The Treasury has been working closely with the FCA, the Bank of England and industry in respect of these instruments, to maximise transparency. Regulators and industry have welcomed the Government’s approach to this SI. This instrument was first published, with accompanying explanatory notes, for sifting on 30 November 2018. Following a recommendation from the European Statutory Instruments Committee, it was re-laid under the affirmative procedure on 17 January 2019.

In summary, the Government believe that the proposed legislation is necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of financial markets in the UK, if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period. I hope that colleagues will join me in supporting these regulations, which I commend to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Member for Oxford East for her questions. She opened in familiar fashion, with respect to the challenge of volume, flow and transparency. I am sympathetic, to a point, about the volume, which we have both had to tolerate. However, this process was set out in earlier legislation. I accept that there is a dispute over the appropriateness of this mechanism, but these SIs are scrutinised prior to being laid. She made several points on the powers of transfer; the resourcing, preparation and workload of the Bank of England; advice and assistance regarding the EEA; and the requirement for co-operation. I shall endeavour to answer them thoroughly.

On whether the Bank of England will have adequate resourcing to take on the new responsibilities granted to it by the draft instrument, I am confident that it is making adequate preparations and effectively allocating resources ahead of 29 March 2019. It has considerable experience and technical expertise in regulating financial services to high standards, has actively participated in a wide range of groups to develop technical policy and regulatory rules, and has chaired several committees and taskforces. My officials have expressed no doubts with respect to that process. Although I accept that these changes are a burden on the Bank, it is very qualified to deal with them. On resourcing, the transfer of functions from ESMA to the Bank is provided for in separate SIs. I have been in regular contact with the Bank and am satisfied that its resourcing issues are resolved through its budgeting process. It has mechanisms to increase that when necessary.

The hon. Lady said that the impact assessments do not take account of the wider impact of no deal, but the impact assessments for these SIs focus narrowly on the changes they make and how businesses will need to respond. It is perfectly reasonable for the hon. Lady to assert that the wider impact of leaving the EU without a deal has not been assessed as part of this impact assessment, and I recognise that that impact is a contested space. However, an impact assessment for the EU (Withdrawal) Act deals with the impact of the parent Act, and the Government also published in November 2018 an analysis of the potential economic impact of that range of scenarios. I must stress that these SIs mitigate the impact of leaving the EU without a deal. If they were not in place, industry would face substantially greater disruption and greater cost if we left without a deal.

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation, but the point I was trying to get at was not about the scope of the impact assessment in terms of different types of no-deal scenarios. I was asking why it is believed that this SI would not impact on an overseas investment exchange. The impact assessment states that any cost would be triggered by that overseas operator’s deciding that it still wants to operate in the UK, rather than by the requirements of this SI. That strikes me as a little bit peculiar.

[John Glen]

The issue of hypothecating the cost of a decision made by an entity in another jurisdiction as a consequence of this SI is arguably stretching the range of what would be appropriate and in scope. I think we have assessed that the cost of making this application is £50,000, if I am not mistaken, but I will look into that further and write to the hon. Lady if I can provide further clarification.

It is worth my exploring two further points regarding the co-operation requirements. The PRA has an existing duty under FSMA to co-operate with other authorities, whether in the UK or elsewhere. The SI applies that duty so that the Bank of England is subject to a duty to co-operate with other bodies that undertake similar functions in connection with the Bank’s functions under the European market infrastructure regulation, the central securities depositories regulation and the securities financing transactions regulation. The Bank has discretion in how it carries out that duty. Clearly, the Treasury cannot bind how other countries co-operate with UK regulators, but the duty did not exist previously, so we have put that in for those three dimensions.

On the application process, the hon. Lady cited what the European regulators have done. As I think I have said, the FCA published on 14 September 2018 a direction clarifying the way in which an application to become an ROIE would be made. That direction states that the application should be made as soon as possible and not later than six months before the applicant wishes an ROIE recognition order to take effect. The length of the application process varies on a case-by-case basis and depends to a large extent on the quality and timeliness of the information that each applicant provides. There is no mandated application form; the FCA looks to firms to provide written evidence that they are held to requirements in their home jurisdiction that have equivalent effect in the UK regime.

[Anneliese Dodds]

That is enormously helpful. Can the Minister clarify whether any of them have actually applied in this case? If they need that designation before they can operate and we are in theory leaving on 29 March, surely they need to have started by now.

[John Glen]

From memory, I think 55 could have applied and I believe 10 have successfully applied in the previous three or four months. If I have made an error, I shall correct it promptly. Regarding why we have not recognised EEA CCPs, this SI does not deal with recognition of overseas CCPs, but I will write to the hon. Lady to clarify the situation.

I hope that deals with the points raised. The Government believe that this legislation is necessary, and I hope the Committee has found my points of clarification sufficiently illuminating to allow us to pass these regulations.

Question put and agreed to.

Draft Financial Services (Gibraltar) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 Draft Gibraltar (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

John Glen Excerpts

Thursday 7th March 2019 General Committees

[The Chair]

Hon. Members will have recognised that there are in fact two instruments to be discussed today. If it is the will of the Committee to consider the two together, the Minister will move the first instrument now and the second one later.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Financial Services (Gibraltar) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to consider the draft Gibraltar (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

[John Glen]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. As the two instruments are to be taken together, I will also speak to the draft Gibraltar (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

As the Committee is aware, and as with the previous statutory instruments we have debated, these SIs are part of the legislative programme under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 that aims to ensure that, if the UK leaves the EU with neither a deal nor an implementation period, there will continue to be a functioning legislative and regulatory regime for financial services in the United Kingdom.

Gibraltar holds a special place within the British family, because of not only our shared history, which stretches back over 300 years, but the priorities and values that we share today. The UK Government are steadfast in their commitment to maintaining our close relationship, which will remain unchanged following the UK’s and Gibraltar’s parallel withdrawal from the EU.

The instruments deliver on the commitment made at the Joint Ministerial Council with the Government of Gibraltar in March 2018. The UK guaranteed that the access of Gibraltar’s financial services firms to UK markets will continue until 2020 in any scenario. In a no-deal scenario, both the UK and Gibraltar will be outside the European economic area and outside the EU’s legal, supervisory and financial regulatory framework. Since the current market access arrangements between the UK and Gibraltar are underpinned by the EU framework, the UK-Gibraltar framework would become deficient without the SIs.

The SIs update existing UK legislation and make amendments to other EU exit legislation to make special provision for Gibraltar, ensuring that UK legislation relating to Gibraltar operates effectively in a no-deal scenario. The draft Financial Services (Gibraltar) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 deal primarily with the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Gibraltar) Order 2001, known as the Gibraltar order. Along with section 409 of FSMA, the legislation modifies EU passporting rights to allow market access for authorised financial services firms between the UK and Gibraltar. It applies to a range of authorised firms and, importantly for Gibraltar, includes those in the insurance industry.

Subsequently, since domestic legislation is derived from EU law, in a no-deal scenario, passporting arrangements between the UK and Gibraltar will become deficient. The draft SI amends domestic legislation, including the Gibraltar order and section 409 of FSMA, to retain existing passporting arrangements between the UK and Gibraltar until at least 2020 after we leave the EU. That is in line with the Government’s previous commitment. The provisions are therefore sunsetted and will cease to have effect at the end of 2020.

At the JMC in March 2018, the UK Government also announced that they will work closely with the Government of Gibraltar to design a long-term permanent framework for market access beyond 2020. That will similarly be based on shared high standards of regulation enforcement and regulatory co-operation. Although the duration of market access in the SI is contingent on the introduction of a replacement framework, the UK Government are committed to preventing a potential cliff edge in Gibraltar-based firms’ access in 2020 and to providing clarity to Gibraltar’s market. Accordingly, the SI includes a power to extend existing market access arrangements by one year at a time from the end of 2020. This will be supported by a ministerial statement on progress towards the replacement framework between the UK Government and the Government of Gibraltar.

Currently, EEA firms passporting into Gibraltar also have the ability to onward passport into the UK, and vice versa. Consistent with the general removal of EEA passporting provisions in the event of our leaving without a deal, the SI also removes provisions enabling such access. It will have no impact on UK or Gibraltarian firms.

The draft Gibraltar (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 relate to non-passporting arrangements between the UK and Gibraltar in financial services that support the market access arrangements. Various references across legislation in retained EU and UK law treat Gibraltar as if it were an EEA state in relation to such arrangements. For example, Gibraltar, like other EEA states, has home-state responsibility in the event of a Gibraltar-based firm becoming insolvent in the UK. Gibraltar-based firms are also included within existing treatments for policyholder and deposit protections, as well as in the EU payments regime for euro transactions.

As a result of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, the arrangements between UK and EEA states will change to reflect the new relationship, but we need to ensure that our existing arrangements with Gibraltar are not affected. The draft regulations therefore make bespoke amendments to EU-derived financial services legislation and to other EU exit SIs to maintain the current treatment of Gibraltar. The draft regulations also make a set of broad provisions that save relevant matters in remaining EU-derived and EU exit legislation that relate to Gibraltar so that regulatory arrangements between the UK and Gibraltar can be treated as they were before exit.

The provisions specifically ensure that Gibraltar-based firms, UK-based firms, Gibraltar trading venues, and provisions related to the arrangements between the UK and Gibraltarian regulators continue to be treated in UK law as they were before exit day. Additionally, these broad savings provisions allow the rights or obligations that are dependent on the function of an EU body to instead be performed by the appropriate UK regulator or the Treasury.

Lastly, the SI makes minor amendments to the Prudential Regulation Authority’s existing powers of intervention over Gibraltarian insurers operating in the UK. That will allow the PRA, where necessary and appropriate, to address risks of disruption that could threaten the financial stability of the UK. No changes are being made to the Financial Conduct Authority’s powers in relation to Gibraltar-based firms.

The Treasury has been engaging closely with the Government of Gibraltar on the legislation, and it supports the approach taken in the SIs. It has also engaged with the PRA and the FCA in drafting the SIs and has shared with the financial services industry drafts of them ahead of their publication. On 19 December 2018, the Treasury published the draft Financial Services (Gibraltar) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. The draft Gibraltar (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 were published on 7 February 2019, with an updated explanatory policy note on the two Gibraltar SIs.

The Government of Gibraltar are also undertaking their own contingency preparations for Gibraltar’s withdrawal from the EU to ensure that UK firms currently operating in Gibraltar retain their market access in the event of our leaving the EU without a deal and to maintain current regulatory arrangements.

Before I conclude, I draw the Committee’s attention to a small mistake that has been discovered in the draft Gibraltar (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019—unfortunately, mistakes happen from time to time. Where they are found, I have always been transparent about the need to put an explanation on the record. Shortly after the draft SI was laid, a small typographical error was found in regulation 10(3), which inserts proposed regulation 4C into the Solvency 2 and Insurance (Amendment, etc) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. Paragraph 2(a) of that proposed regulation refers to

“UK law which implemented or the Solvency 2 directive”.

It should read, of course, “UK law which implemented the Solvency 2 directive”. That typographical error will be corrected before the draft SI is made.

The draft regulations are necessary to ensure that Gibraltar-based financial services firms can continue to passport into UK markets as they do now and that existing regulatory treatments in relation to Gibraltar continue to function effectively after exit day if the UK leaves the EU without a deal or an implementation period. I hope colleagues will join me in supporting the regulations, and I commend them to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Member for Oxford East for the thoroughness of her scrutiny, and will endeavour to answer the questions she has raised. On the general points that we have rehearsed a number of times, I remind the Committee that everything we have done through these SIs has been within the scope of the withdrawal Act. I understand that having 30 debates in three months has been unusual; it has not been a desirable process, but it has been a necessary one.

The hon. Lady made a number of points about the delay following the Joint Ministerial Council in March last year. That delay did not cause problems for Gibraltar, and the financial services industry in Gibraltar has welcomed these SIs. There has been a lot of dialogue over the year, and the Government of Gibraltar have been closely engaged with the SIs and are content with the approach we have taken.

The hon. Lady raised concerns about the overall regime in Gibraltar. Gibraltar complies with EU and global standards on tax transparency. It has received the same rating for tax transparency from the OECD’s global forum as Germany, the United States and the United Kingdom, and because of its status within the EU, it follows all EU directives relating to tax avoidance and tax transparency. I recognise that there are bigger issues about the final regime we end up with, which will be scrutinised outside of the scope of this Committee.

We have undertaken consultation throughout the EU exit process, and have been committed to engaging with the Gibraltar Government. On a ministerial level, that engagement has been structured through the JMC on Gibraltar-EU negotiations. As for contingency preparations, the Government of Gibraltar have received both SIs positively, and we have had deep discussions over the past year at official and ministerial levels.

Some other points were made about the nature of the fix for insurance. Of course, the vast majority of the financial services industry in Gibraltar relates to insurance. We did things this way because it was a pragmatic solution that did what was necessary, based on conversations with the PRA and the FCA. The second statutory instrument is essentially a horizontal fix that deals with all the deficiencies in terms of references to Gibraltar.

As I have acknowledged in previous debates in recent weeks, there is no one way to do this. Given the resources and timetable available, and given that it is a contingency arrangement for no deal, we have taken pragmatic steps that are in line with the expectations of the Gibraltarian Government and that deal with the risks that existed. Obviously, we hope that we will enter an implementation period and have time to develop a fuller solution for the long term, beyond the end of 2020. One in six UK motorists has insurance contracts from Gibraltar, so it was important to put an emphasis on insurance.

I do not think any other specific issues were raised. I have dealt with the degree of co-operation. In the light of that, I hope the Committee will support the regulations as being necessary in the circumstances that I have set out.

Question put and agreed to.

DRAFT GIBRALTAR (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Gibraltar (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(John Glen.)

Oral Answers to Questions

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

2. What recent steps he has taken to tackle money laundering.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

The Government have made a very strong commitment to tackling money laundering. Recent initiatives include the creation of the economic crime strategic board and the National Economic Crime Centre. We have also strengthened anti-money laundering supervision through the creation of the Office for Professional Body Anti-Money Laundering Supervision, and we are reforming suspicious activity reports and tackling the abuse of Scottish limited partnerships.

[Alison Thewliss]

The Economic Secretary to the Treasury knows better than most of us about the nefarious impact of Russia, and I send my best wishes to his constituency, to the Skripals and, most of all, to the family and friends of Dawn Sturgess, one year after the Salisbury attack.

Yesterday, Prince Charles ended up being drawn into the troika laundromat scandal, with money linked via a maze of shell companies back to the Magnitsky case. Criminal and legitimate money is sloshing around together in our banking system. What are the Government doing to close the loopholes and stop legitimising the proceeds of kleptocracy?

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Lady for her kind remarks about my constituency. I am familiar with the reports that appeared in The Guardian yesterday evening about the case to which she has referred. Following the response by the Financial Action Task Force to a two-year review of our standards in the United Kingdom, the Government recognise that we are world leaders in this regard, but there are some outstanding concerns about reports of suspicious activity in the banking sector. Work is ongoing, and I will take a close interest in it.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Can the Minister quantify the amount of extra tax that the Government have collected since 2010 that would otherwise have been unpaid, as a result of the measures they have taken to tackle money laundering?

[John Glen]

I cannot give my hon. Friend the exact figure, but we are anxious to crack down on suspicious activity when reports give us reason to believe that further measures are necessary. We have taken action in improving cross-governmental co-ordination, and we are working closely with the Home Office on the suspicious activity reports.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

The Financial Secretary was unable to answer this question yesterday, so I shall ask it again. Can the Economic Secretary explain why, although the call for evidence on extending corporate liability for economic crime closed two years ago, we have yet to receive a response or see any action?

[John Glen]

The Ministry of Justice is looking at that, and will present its response to the call for evidence later this year.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

May I suggest that the answer to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) is £185 billion?

[John Glen]

I always take my right hon. Friend’s words very seriously, and I am sure that he must be right.

[Sir Vince Cable (Twickenham) (LD)]

Britain is now a world leader in financial transparency and dealing with money laundering owing to the public register of beneficial ownership. What action do the Government propose to take to stop those standards being undermined by Crown dependencies, which rely on the British passport and British defence protection, but operate in a much more opaque manner?

[John Glen]

We are committed to introducing those registers by 2023. Since 2017, we have worked closely with law enforcement agencies through the mechanism of the exchange of notes with the overseas territories, and that has led us to unexplained wealth orders and the forfeiture of bank accounts.

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[Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)]

11. What fiscal steps he is taking to increase (a) the number of jobs and (b) economic growth.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

The Government have worked hard to build a stronger, fairer economy. The economy has grown continuously for the past nine years, employment is currently at a record high, unemployment is currently at its lowest rate since 1975 and real wages are rising.

[Chris Philp]

It is welcome that 75% of those new jobs are full-time and only 3% are zero-hours contracts. It is also welcome that the minimum wage has gone up by 38% since 2010, but what assurance can the Minister give that the policy of dramatically increasing the minimum wage to help the poorest in our society will continue?

[John Glen]

I can confirm that the national living wage will rise again this year, to £8.21. I can also tell my hon. Friend that later this year the Low Pay Commission will be set a new remit for beyond 2020. We want to be ambitious, with the ultimate objective of ending low pay in the UK while protecting employment for lower-paid workers.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I suspect the Minister knows that it will be more difficult to increase jobs in services businesses if we replace single market membership with a free trade agreement. Will he set out for the House what estimate he has made of the scale of the difficulty, particularly that facing financial services businesses that want to increase jobs in the current Brexit situation?

[John Glen]

Financial services are well protected and ready to engage on arrangements for beyond the implementation period, but the Government are not complacent in respect of the whole economy. We have made a series of interventions through our productivity fund to meet the challenges of the next generation.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Whenever the Government table self-congratulatory questions like that one, there is a need to put on record what is really happening out there. Six million jobs in the UK pay less than the real living wage, 3.8 million people are in insecure employment and 2.5 million people work less than 15 hours a week. Economic growth, where it exists, is so geographically unequal that it does not reflect the reality of what people see around them. Let me ask, on behalf of those people: what is this Government’s strategy for in-work poverty and insecure employment?

[John Glen]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. This Government’s strategy is to relentlessly pursue growth in the economy and opportunities for all. We have seen 18.3% growth since 2010, and a record 32.6 million people in work. We will continue to prioritise interventions around technical education, cuts in business taxes and support for new technologies to recognise the new jobs that need to be provided for.

[Mr Speaker]

Well done.

[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

13. What assessment he has made of the effect of the freeze on benefits on the level of personal debt of benefit recipients.

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

The decision to freeze most working-age benefits for four years from 2016-17 was one of a number of difficult financial decisions that were taken, but to assist claimants who are affected by debt, the Government announced, as part of the 2018 Budget package, a reduction from 40% to 30% in the maximum rate at which deductions can be made from universal credit awards. That change will help 290,000 claimants.

[Neil Coyle]

I thank the Minister for his reply. This morning, the Select Committee on Work and Pensions visited Charles Dickens Primary School in my constituency to talk to parents, children and teachers about the impact that the benefits freeze and other welfare cuts have had on local families, many of whom have been pushed into debt, poverty and destitution as a direct result of Government policy. Will the Government listen to the Select Committee and lift the benefits freeze one year early?

[John Glen]

The Government have been very responsive to representations over the last two Budgets. There are 637,000 fewer children in workless households than in 2010. We made a number of interventions in the last Budget to increase the availability of interest-free advance loans to those who need them. We are listening, and continue to listen, to the concerns of the sector.

[Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con)]

14. What fiscal steps he is taking to increase economic productivity.

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[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

The Treasury Committee will today publish the Economic Secretary’s letter to me of 30 January on the current solution to problems faced by mortgage prisoners. This solution requires the private sector to be receptive to providing new mortgages to mortgage prisoners currently trapped with inactive lenders. What update can Ministers provide on the promised Treasury officials’ work with those lenders?

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

I can tell my right hon. Friend that I am in conversation with the Financial Conduct Authority about its move to a relative rather than an absolute test. I note that there are a range of views out there about how this problem can be dealt with. The FCA has said that it will come back later this spring with its response, and I am happy to meet my right hon. Friend to discuss her concerns further.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

This morning, the Financial Times entitled its editorial, “UK territories need to embrace transparency”, prompted by the Government’s decision to pull a vote they knew they were going to lose last night. Does the Chancellor of the Exchequer not feel that he is completely out of kilter with the spirit of the modern age?

[John Glen]

Some amendments were tabled on Thursday, and given the constitutional implications of those amendments, I think it is right that the Government work across Departments—with the Ministry of Justice and the Foreign Office—and have dialogue with the Crown dependencies and overseas territories to resolve the matter as the amendments suggested.

[Ms Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con)]

Adding to the calls of colleagues, may I ask the Chancellor to ensure that more money is provided for schools? Schools across the country desperately need it, particularly in Cheshire, which is the lowest funded.

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[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Personal debt is now higher than it has ever been in British history. Household debt is now also higher than it has ever been and has increased by nearly £1,000 in the past year alone. How sustainable is that?

[John Glen]

That is why the Government are concerned that the establishment of a single financial guidance body should happen quickly this year. Some £56 million is spent on debt advice to 530,000 people. This is an area I take very seriously, and I will be going to the credit union conference on Saturday to outline some more policy initiatives.

[Several hon. Members rose—]