Oral Answers to Questions
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 3 months ago)
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Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
8. What estimate he has made of the likely effect on the level of child poverty of the fiscal measures in his autumn statement.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
When measured against previously announced policies, there will be an estimated increase of 100,00 in children living in households with less than 60% of median income in 2012-13.
Sheila Gilmore
We are constantly told by the Government that the way out of poverty is work and that work must pay. Is the Minister prepared to reconsider the decision not to uprate working tax credits this year in terms of inflation while at the same time uprating out-of-work benefits by inflation?
Miss Smith
The reason for that decision was to prioritise the resources we have available on those perhaps least able to deal with the difficulties of the cost of living.
Kate Green
The Chancellor announced in the autumn statement an increase in the number of child care places for disadvantaged two-year-olds, but at the same time we are hearing of cuts to local authority funding for child care, and places are closing. How will the Government guarantee that these new places for disadvantaged children will be additional places and not simply a matter of money being moved out of one pot to pay for another?
Miss Smith
We expect that that policy will be additional in the sense that it is extending it to disadvantaged two-year-olds. We expect 130,000 disadvantaged two-year-olds to be assisted by the 15 hours of free child care, and we certainly expect local authorities to take sensible decisions with the limited resources that they also have.
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)
With 2 million children living in workless households, does the Minister agree that the essential steps include not only the additional child care places, but the universal credit and the fact that every hour of work will count towards increased reward for the household? That is an essential part of those fiscal measures.
Miss Smith
I certainly do agree with my hon. Friend, and on a couple of counts. First, poverty is not about income: it is about work. I am sure that she will agree that it is a crying shame that under the previous Government the number of children in workless households reached one in every six. I also agree with the chief executive of The Big Issue, who says in The Times today that
“You don’t help the poor by making them dependent on handouts”.
Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)
Grandparents often play an important role in supporting their children’s children. So why is it that the Government’s welcome commitment to a more generous state pension bizarrely has the effect of increasing the number of children statistically said to be living in poverty? What is the sense in that?
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If I can, I would be happy to provide him with the workings that create that situation. That measure can have perverse effects, but we believe in measures that genuinely take children out of poverty, such as early intervention policies, rather than moving them over an imaginary line.
Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)
7. What steps he is taking to encourage banks to charge competitive rates for loans to small and medium-sized businesses.
Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab)
11. What assessment he has made of the Office for Budget Responsibility’s most recent estimate of the size of the deficit in 2015.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
The OBR forecast in November that borrowing in 2015-16 would be £53 billion, which is 2.9% of gross domestic product. That compares with £156 billion last year and £127 billion this financial year.
Mr Sharma
I thank the Economic Secretary for answering the question. Can she tell us why the Government are now forecast to borrow £37 billion more than the more balanced plan Labour set out before the election, despite the pain of £40 billion more spending cuts and tax rises?
Miss Smith
This Government are engaged in a credible deficit reduction plan. I would like to hear the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues tell us what their plan is and whether it veers towards credibility or the policies of the delusional left.
Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks) (Con)
What lesson should we draw from Standard & Poor’s warning that the UK’s rating could come under downward pressure if, against its expectation, the commitment to fiscal consolidation wavers? Should not that warning be addressed to those who want us to cut more slowly and to borrow even more as a result?
Miss Smith
My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. Our policies have kept the UK ahead of the curve. He and others in our House need only look to the French downgrade last week to see the value of the credibility we have restored to the UK economy.
Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab)
Is not the Minister aware that the figures show the total failure of the Government’s economic policy—not only on the deficit, but on all the contributory factors? Employment is down, way below their target, and so are growth and private sector employment. On every key index, their policies have failed. They own this policy, they are failing—when will they change it?
Miss Smith
We have a plan A, to which we are sticking because it is working—unlike the policies proposed by the Opposition, which have yet to emerge in any credible detail whatsoever.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
12. What recent estimate he has made of the level of the UK’s current account balance with the EU.
Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
13. What assessment he has made of the likely level of economic growth in 2012.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
The Office for Budget Responsibility forecast 0.7% economic growth in 2012 and that the economy would grow every year after that within the forecast.
Mr Hanson
With unemployment at a 17-year high, with growth having flatlined over the past 12 months, and with targets for future growth having been missed in every month so far to date, may I gently suggest to the Minister that she should look positively at some of the alternative suggestions that have been made, such as for a cut in VAT on construction, which is supported by the Federation of Small Businesses, to help growth in the next 12 months?
Miss Smith
Like recoveries from all deep recessions, this one has been choppy, and we are facing subdued growth, as the Office for Budget Responsibility has laid out. There are many reasons for that, one of which is that the Labour party simply turned on the taps when it came to spending and left them running. What the right hon. Gentleman has to recognise is that in policies that deal with business we do not pick ones that have an extra £20 billion price tag that cannot be sourced. Perhaps it is his leader who needs to take a lesson in understanding business, as his adviser has said that he
“doesn’t understand business…there was always something missing.”
Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)
Will my hon. Friend congratulate Jaguar Land Rover, BMW, B&Q and John Lewis, among others, on driving down long-term unemployment in Tamworth by a whacking 22%? Does not that demonstrate that it is through the private sector’s developing sustainable jobs that we will build sustainable economic growth?
Miss Smith
I certainly will join my hon. Friend in congratulating those firms. It is exactly through the private sector that we will find a more balanced recovery. I would also like to place on record my interest in the record numbers of apprenticeships in which such firms are participating, such as 440,000 more this year—up by half on the year before.
Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)
15. On what basis HM Revenue and Customs calculates surcharges levied for handling payments made by credit cards.
Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
T5. Can the Minister update the House on lessons learned from the Fiscal Forum on how to maximise investment in jobs in UK oil and gas production?
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
I certainly can, and I welcome my hon. Friend’s interest in this policy area, based on his constituency experience. The Government have been clear that they want to see the oil and gas industry thrive, given its importance for jobs and growth around the country. Ministerial colleagues, officials and I continue to engage the industry in ongoing constructive dialogue to understand the challenges facing it.
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
The Minister confirmed today that 100,000 more children will be put into poverty as a result of the changes to tax credit. Can the Minister explain to the House, the country and my constituency why it is fair that three times as much will be taken from tax credits as will be raised in additional taxes on the banks?
Miss Smith
What the hon. Gentleman needs to acknowledge is that we have a sustainable way of including the banks in our public spending and public taxation plans; under his party’s plan, that revenue would have been spent five times over, if not more, and that is if it were done over multiple years, as ours is.
Regional Pay (Public Sector)
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 4 months ago)
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The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
Happy new year, Mr Chope. I am sure that it is an honour for us all to take part in the first debate of 2012, so let us enjoy ourselves for that reason. I thank the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) for securing what has been a thorough and interesting debate. It might not be a new debate, as my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) said, but it is extremely important none the less.
The policy is not about saving money—I shall pause for the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) to draw breath—but about supporting economic growth, and I will go through the reasons why the Government believe that the policy could do that. A simple fact of life that needs to enter the debate is that public and private sector organisations compete for employees in different markets across the UK. There is no way around that fact. Equally, there is no way around the fact that private sector pay is, on the whole, set locally and that public sector pay is usually set nationally. I will set out two effects that those differences can have before going on to the meat of the debate.
The differences can do three things. First, they can hurt private sector businesses that have to compete in certain places with higher public sector wages. Secondly, they can also lead to unfair variations in the quality of public services—something on which I am sure that we would all have more to say, had we another hour and half in which to debate it. Thirdly—this is crucial—if a higher than locally desirable wage bill is set, public sector money is not always allocated as effectively as it could be within local areas. That has a knock-on effect on what the public sector can do with its remaining budget, which has a further knock-on effect on the number of jobs that the public sector can support.
Hywel Williams
To the contrary, given the problems of mobility of public service workers that would inevitably arise with regional pay, what consideration are the Government giving to the direction of labour in the public sector?
Miss Smith
If I have understood that correctly, it is about what definition the Government are giving to labour in the market. I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon—
Hywel Williams
The direction of labour. It is a good old-fashioned socialist policy.
Miss Smith
Absolutely—which I am clearly not ready for at 10 to 11 on a Tuesday morning.
The point that I was going to make, which is the most important one that I want to leave behind in this debate, is that the Government have set out no detailed proposals at this stage. As I think all hon. Members know, the proposal that has been made so far, through the autumn statement and subsequently, is only to ask the experts how public sector pay might better reflect local markets. I, for one, do not have a problem with that being done by letter. I hear what hon. Members have said about that. However, I am also particularly delighted that the hon. Member for Pontypridd changes his mind when facts change. I hope that in this case also he will wait for the evidence.
Owen Smith
Does the Minister accept that the Chancellor has clearly indicated that he is in favour of the reform? He spoke before the Treasury Committee, and no one can be in any doubt that he thinks it is a good idea.
Miss Smith
It is perfectly possible to think that something is a good idea and then to ask experts how it could happen.
Helen Goodman
Does the Minister therefore accept that all that has happened is that the Chancellor has asked how the idea could be implemented and how it would work and that no consideration is being given to the proposal’s overall economic impact?
Miss Smith
The best possibility of dealing with the overall economic impact will be when facts and data have been received. That is the point of the process that the Chancellor has laid out.
To move on to the content that we need to get through, hon. Members should be in no doubt about how important the public sector is and about the fact that the Government share that view and the desire for all parts of the economy to do well in the coming years. However, fiscal consolidation is a vital precondition for growth and part of the sustainable foundation that will let all sectors and all parts of industry do well and do what they need to. It is also part of achieving even growth across the country. It is right that public sector pay restraint should play a part in that fiscal consolidation. Public servants do a crucial job in delivering the high-quality services that we all look for, and it is right that we continue to offer the kind of rewards that attract the most skilled people to the public sector. However, it is incontrovertible that public sector wages on average continue to compare extremely generously to those of private sector workers. The Institute of Fiscal Studies, which has already featured in the debate, suggested that there is on average a 7.5% premium to working in the public sector over comparable jobs in the private sector. That makes a strong case for public sector pay bill restraint.
I want to discuss the rationale for the policy suggestion that has been made and the Chancellor’s effort to seek views on how it can be carried out. We must ensure that public sector pay is set at the right level for each labour market in the long term. I want to make it clear again that the proposals are not about generating savings, but about supporting economic growth by ensuring that wages are set at the level in individual localities. Indeed, a significant reason for the disparity between public and private sector pay is due, as I have mentioned, to the difference between pay that is set locally and pay that is set nationally. Typically, private sector pay is more subject to the rates paid by local competitors, the local cost of living and perhaps, in some cases, local turnover rates. However, public sector pay is usually set on a one-size-fits-all basis nationally. Accordingly, public sector workers can often be paid more than private sector workers in similar jobs in the same area. That has potentially damaging consequences for the economy. For example, private sector businesses, perhaps such as the one that my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire once ran, which are looking for staff to help them to set up or grow, need to compete with much higher public sector wages in the same area. That is the ultimate crowding-out argument within the debate.
I want to refer briefly to the system of zonal pay in the Courts Service, which has been mentioned. It demonstrates that it is possible for pay to be responsive to local labour markets within a national bargaining framework. Of course, those zones did not simply conform to regional boundaries, but took into account the local economy by, for example, putting Norwich, Exeter and Newcastle in the same zone. The debate has a misnomer at its heart. In the autumn statement, the Chancellor announced local pay, not regional pay, so we are not talking about something that might take effect at the level of Wales. We are talking about something that may, depending on what the experts say, happen at a lower level.
Miss Smith
I will just have to repeat myself on this point: depending on what the experts say, it will be at a more local level. That is what I, for one, look forward to from those experts, as, no doubt, do all those people who like facts.
The Government are not setting out detailed and prescriptive proposals. The hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) would no doubt like me to give a quote, but I shall not give him that pleasure this morning. Public sector work forces have a variety of pay structures, as has been mentioned. The Chancellor has therefore written to the independent pay review bodies to ask them to consider how to make public sector pay more responsive to local labour markets. They will report back with interim findings by July. That will include union evidence, to answer the question of the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman). I shall be absolutely clear about who will be included in the scope of the relevant body: it will be the NHS, excluding doctors and dentists—again, to respond to a point made by the hon. Lady—and it will include teachers, prison officers and the senior civil service. To respond to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop), it will not include the police, who, as he knows, will be subject to the Winsor review.
The Minister for the Cabinet Office will co-ordinate and assist Secretaries of State in exploring how local, market-facing pay could be introduced in civil service Departments. As to the devolved Administrations, public sector pay in devolved areas is a matter for them, except for those areas where workers are covered by a national pay review body. That said, we are keen to see local market-facing pay introduced across the UK, and we urge all devolved Administrations to consider issuing separate remits for the relevant pay review bodies within devolved areas.
The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr asked me about an impact assessment on how the approach taken in the Courts Service turned out. Very speedily, I can offer him a couple of points about what happened across that experience. First, staff adoption was at 97% over a year later. Secondly and more broadly, analysis conducted after the reforms showed that the majority of locations had a healthy turnover and that the Ministry of Justice was able to recruit and retain staff throughout the country. He also asked me about the Office for Budget Responsibility costs of the public sector work force. If he would let me have that question in writing, in more detail, so that I can answer him as accurately as I can, I would be happy to do so; but I must finish a couple of other points in a very short time.
Public sector pay restraint and reforms to local pay policy are a key step to supporting local economic recovery and growth. Indeed, supporting regional private sector growth has been at the heart of the Government’s growth strategy. Hon. Members may want to consider, for example, the £30 billion of investment in infrastructure projects across the UK set out in the autumn statement, enterprise zones and the regional growth fund. We need to look at the aims and the areas and communities that are dependent so far on the public sector to support them in making the transition to private sector-led growth and prosperity.
Hon. Members have rightly talked about the need for fairness. As we all know, many families face difficult prospects. That is why the Government have taken practical steps to provide support, including—as the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) will welcome—having gained more from a tax on bankers every year than the previous Government did in a single year. She will also welcome the protections for the lowest paid during the public sector pay freeze, the deferring of January’s scheduled fuel duty increase and the decisions that have lifted more than 1 million out of income tax altogether.
The Government have already taken considerable action to achieve strong, sustainable and balanced growth that is more evenly shared across the country. By moving towards local public sector pay, we can ensure that we have high-quality public services across the UK and do not crowd out private sector recovery.
Red Diesel
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 4 months ago)
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The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
I am today announcing that, following an internal review of the use of rebated fuel or “red diesel” for community and charitable activities in rural areas, HMRC is launching a formal consultation exercise on extending the use of red diesel to allow tractors to grit roads in rural communities.
HMRC’s review examined the scope for extending the use of red diesel by farmers to allow them to undertake a range of community-based activities, including allowing farmers to use their tractors to undertake gritting in rural communities. Following an informal consultation exercise, HMRC will now consult formally on permanent changes to the Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979 to allow farmers to use their tractors to grit roads in rural areas.
This change builds on HMRC’s temporary relaxation of its enforcement procedures during the last two severe winters, and will provide much-needed support to rural communities that are often too remote to benefit from municipal gritting activities and may find themselves cut off during periods of extreme weather. While the consultation is carried out, HMRC will continue to stand ready to temporarily relax enforcement procedures in the event of severe weather this winter.
For other community activities, the review concluded that it would not be possible to extend the use of red diesel to accommodate other community activities in a way that would be consistent with EU legislation (Directive 2003/96—the energy products directive).
However, the Government are clear that HMRC should take a pragmatic approach when farmers undertake community activities. To reinforce this approach further, HMRC intends to issue revised guidance to remind its officers that a degree of common sense should be used when dealing with these types of cases. If there is sufficient evidence to suggest someone has mistakenly breached the rules governing the use of red diesel, a warning should normally be given. The Government also recognise that the best way to minimise instances of mistaken use of red diesel is to increase awareness. To assist farming communities to comply with the law, HMRC will also refresh its internet guidance on the use of red diesel for grass cutting, to remove any confusion that may exist.
HMRC will launch the formal consultation exercise on its website early in the new year.
Alcohol Taxation
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) on securing the debate. I recognise that, as a general practitioner, she can draw on direct experience on dealing with the adverse effects of alcohol on health. I also acknowledge her reference to the contribution in The Daily Telegraph today from other professionals in the field.
I can assure all hon. Members who have spoken—it is a pleasure to hear so many—that not only GPs have such concerns about the effect of alcohol on the welfare and well-being of society; that concern is shared by the Government. It is clear that alcohol abuse causes serious harm to health and leads to considerable costs to the NHS and that many towns and cities are affected by alcohol-related violence and crime, as my hon. Friend has said. Like her, of course I abhor behaviour such as that in the example on which she finished her speech.
For all those reasons, the coalition Government are committed to tackling problem drinking across a range of fronts. I shall set out a few points on which action has already been taken. I shall try to do so quickly, to get on to minimum unit pricing, as my hon. Friend has requested. I will begin by trying to tackle a couple of points made by other hon. Members. Irresponsible drinkers, rather than responsible drinkers in pubs and other places of safety, are the problem.
I shall try to tackle a couple of the specific questions. If I do not do get there in time, I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me if I write to her on a couple of points. With regard to measures that the Government have already taken, I hope that they will demonstrate and reassure her that the Government are committed to an evidence-based approach. I specifically reassure her of that today. It is, of course, a subject on which data speak clearly. It is a complex subject that requires much analysis of evidence.
I shall start that process with what the Government have done. My hon. Friend will know that the Treasury published the review of alcohol taxation in November 2010, which among other things identified a problem with so-called super-strength lagers, about which others have spoken today. The Government confirmed in the 2011 Budget that action would be taken to discourage consumption of those drinks, introducing two new additional duties, which should help. There are also targeted approaches on other types of drink—for example, a minimum juice content for products that qualify as cider. I note my hon. Friend’s point about ciders.
Andrew Griffiths
The Minister has clearly got up to speed quickly on her brief. With regard to cider, does she agree that it seems completely incongruous that the 4% duty paid on a pint of beer is twice that paid on cider—2%—at exactly the same strength?
Miss Smith
I am aware of that specific point, and I am sure that my hon. Friend and his colleagues will be even more aware of that tonight at the all-party parliamentary beer group’s Christmas party, if I have that correct. If he will forgive me, I will focus on minimum unit pricing in this debate, to deal with points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes. I shall briefly note that she raised the wider impacts of alcohol. Of course, it is not just the duty system that is important. I direct her to the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011, which I hope will help with the late-night economy. To make an important point, I direct her to a forthcoming paper from the Department of Health, which, with the Home Office, is responsible for this area, that will consider the wider social and health impacts of alcohol. I have no doubt that she will look at that in some detail.
Guy Opperman
A simple question: when assessing taxation in the alcohol strategy document, working with the Department of Health, will there be a difference in the views on taxing supermarket sales compared with the pubs that we all cherish and that are so affected by this?
Miss Smith
If my hon. Friend will allow me to come to that, I shall attempt now briefly to answer a number of the questions asked. First, as my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes explained, the Scottish Government have recently introduced a Bill that seeks to bring in a 45p per unit minimum price. She asked why this Government believe that that would be incompatible with EU law, when the Scottish Government do not. If I may quote the specific point: we believe that it could be incompatible with article 34 of the treaty of the functioning of the European Union. I should be delighted to go into more detail on that if she required. That is the position.
I should like to deal with the important point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman). No one wishes to hit pubs unnecessarily. I take the examples about the behaviour of supermarkets that have been given. Like hon. Members, I am wary of those. If an indirect tax were introduced, it would be difficult to distinguish between points of sale. I am happy to come back to hon. Members in more detail on why that is difficult, but it is not as straightforward as saying that we want to hit supermarkets and not pubs; it is about how to set up an indirect tax.
On that note, as hon. Members will have heard in other debates, it is difficult to find ways to vary VAT on similar products. Again, I am happy to come back with more detail on that if required. On price distortion and perhaps distasteful practices at the border, the UK Government will look into that closely. My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes asked whether we will discuss matters with the Scottish Government. We will be watching the situation extremely closely in the service of seeing what works and what we can assess among these complex policy and legal issues.
I will go briefly to a couple of other questions that my hon. Friend asked me: have we received representations from public health representatives on the duty plus VAT measure? I regard that measure as a starting point, as a first step. She rightly notes that it introduces a principle and a starting point. Treasury officials are very closely involved in discussing such matters with the Department of Health and, as I have already mentioned, the Home Office, which is also responsible in part for alcohol. I hope that reassures her.
We have mentioned supermarkets. I shall briefly turn to whether a windfall profit tax could be introduced as a method of trying to tackle some of the harms. First, this is about evidence. It is questionable whether windfall profits are likely to arise, and therefore whether there would be something to tax, as a viable approach. That question rests on carefully analysing the evidence, policy and legal issues and what is possible.
Finally, I hope that I have set out that the Government have taken some action and made some starting points. The Government are keen to hear evidence on the matter and will observe carefully what is going on in Scotland and elsewhere.
Question put and agreed to.
Working Tax Credits
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
First, may I congratulate the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) on securing this debate, and thank him for his kind words about my role at the beginning of his comments? He has asked me a number of specific questions, which I shall be happy to address. In addition, I would like briefly to set out the various reforms to tax credits. I will talk a little about child poverty and, of course, about work incentives, before addressing fully his main point about the 16 to 24 hours change.
Bill Esterson
In her reply, will the Minister deal with the central issue of fairness? Does she think that targeting the poorest families by cutting tax credits is a fair approach as a deficit reduction measure, or does she think that this is wrong, and that the Government should target the bankers?
Miss Smith
I will happily tackle that. In fact, the hon. Gentleman brings me straight to the main point with which I must preface my comments, which is that we are in a very difficult position, economically speaking. That cannot have escaped the attention of anybody sitting here, least of all the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), who I know is very alive to all such matters. However, the fact is that when faced with a very difficult economic situation, we have to make very difficult choices. We must be mindful of the fact that to leave the country struggling under an enormous debt burden does not help anybody; normal working households would not thank us for failing to deal with that situation. So that is one view of fairness to which I shall return throughout my speech.
Mr Andrew Smith
I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way. If we accept for a moment the premise of her argument—tough times, difficult choices—is it not all the more important to have the closest regard to fairness, the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) was making? How can it be fair to target these working people in the way the Government are doing?
Miss Smith
I am unsure from his comments whether the right hon. Gentleman accepts the premise that we are in difficult economic times. I do not know which parallel universe he is living in, but if he is in the same one as I am, he will know that, yes, of course we must do what we do as fairly as possible. He will also know that our bank levy is raising more every year than his party raised in one year, and with that I shall, I hope, lay that topic to rest, unless the hon. Lady would like to take it further.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
Would the Minister confirm that 100,000 extra children will be pushed into poverty as a result of the reduction in working tax credit that was announced yesterday? Will she confirm that that was what the OBR says the additional number of children in poverty will be?
Miss Smith
I can confirm that that figure relates to the measures of child poverty as set out by the Child Poverty Act 2010 and by the current debate. No doubt, the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) is already rubbing her fingers with glee about that. I will come on to that in my comments as well. I wish to introduce the idea that we need to move on to tackling the causes of poverty rather than the statistical method of counting poverty.
Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab)
As we realised from the autumn statement yesterday, the Chancellor seems quite fond of giving with one hand and taking away with the other. We can see what has been taken away: up to £4,000 from these families. Is there anything that these families will get in return that would help to fulfil the Government’s promise that they would be the most family-friendly Government in history? From what we have heard today so far, there is not, but could the Minister enlighten us?
Miss Smith
I thank the hon. Lady very much for her consideration in the sequencing of interventions and I will come on to exactly that point.
I will continue to speak briefly about the high level need for action which drove yesterday’s announcements. As hon. Members will know, the UK economy is recovering from the biggest financial crisis in generations. June 2010’s Budget set out the Government’s plans to reduce the deficit and rebuild the economy. However, since then—and this is the crucial point from yesterday’s analysis which accompanied the OBR’s figures, and both must be taken together in my view—the UK economy has been hit by a number of shocks. The OBR names three: first, higher than expected inflation, which the OBR calls an “external shock”; secondly, ongoing instability from the euro area crisis; and; thirdly, the full and permanent damage done by the 2008-09 financial crisis.
It is unwise not to recognise those three major factors. It is absolutely vital that we tackle our debts. It is absolutely vital that we react appropriately and wisely to the economic situation presented to us, and I think that households know that. No household would thank a Government who, instead of dealing responsibly with that situation, carried on spending, carried on borrowing and carried on racking up the debt to do so.
Debbie Abrahams
That still does not explain—to pick up a point one of my hon. Friends made—why the Government are choosing to punish honest, hard-working families instead of taxing bankers. It is about a four-times greater punishment in terms of taking away money from these families, compared to what the Government are taking away from bankers.
Miss Smith
Let me reiterate, first, the incontrovertible point that we are taking more from bankers every year than the Labour party did in one year of operation. Furthermore, I must point this out and, I hope, lay the matter to rest: the distributional allowances published alongside the autumn statement yesterday clearly indicated that it is the top 10% of the income band that is contributing.
Let me turn briefly to a summary of what was announced yesterday and previously. The Chancellor said that we will uprate the disability elements of tax credits in line with prices, and increase the child element of the child tax credit by £135 in line with inflation too. We will not, however, uprate the other elements of the working tax credit this coming year. Hon. Members have highlighted the fact that, given the size of the uprating this year, we will no longer go ahead with the planned additional £110 rise in the child element over and above inflation.
I must make a further comment, which is that of course the Government believe that the welfare system must remain fair and affordable while protecting the most vulnerable. We must also note within the figures I have just given that by April 2012 the child tax credit will have increased by £390 since last May, and that is of course per child.
A number of reforms to tax credits were announced in the June Budget and the spending review. The point is that the previous Government spent more than £150 billion on tax credits since 2003. This was unsustainable in many ways, and I will give an example before moving on. Under the previous system tax credits were available to families earning up to £58,000. If households had an increase in income of up to £25,000 in the year then they could have earned up to £83,000 and still benefited from tax credits. Taking on board the principles raised by hon. Members, that means to me that we had to act in a situation that appeared to be very unfair, in that people in the top income decile were eligible for tax credits. That is unjustifiable, unfair and very unsustainable in the current economic climate.
Stephen Timms
I know that the Minister was a member of the Welfare Reform Bill Committee, and so is very familiar with the advantages of universal credit set out to the Committee, which include it being available to people working just two, three or four hours a week. The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions frequently draws attention to that advantage, yet with this measure her Department is moving in the opposition direction by limiting the availability of tax credits only to those working more than 24 hours as a household. That is the opposite of what her right hon. Friend is doing.
Miss Smith
Regrettably, I thought that the right hon. Gentleman wanted to respond to why higher earners would have received tax credits under the previous system, but I will come to his point in the bulk of my comments.
Jonathan Reynolds
May I bring the Minister back to the specific move from 16 to 24 hours? The figures I have from the Treasury estimate that this change will save £380 million a year. Yes, that is a substantial sum, but the context is one of a Government now borrowing £158 billion more over this Parliament than they said they would just a year ago. If a family’s income goes from £18,000 a year to £14,000, based on this change, will they not feel some angst at a statement that focuses only on higher earners having their tax credits taken away and the wider economic impact? To go from £18,000 to £14,000 is a very big change for a family in my constituency.
Miss Smith
Let me move on to the change that the hon. Gentleman highlighted, which is the move from 16 to 24 hours. As he explained, under the current system couples with children can claim working tax credit if one partner works 16 hours a week. The hon. Gentleman will know that at the moment lone parents must also work at least 16 hours to qualify for the working tax credit. As he said, however, under the 2010 spending review, from April next year couples with children will have to work 24 hours between them, with at least one partner working 16. In response to the interventions made, this change makes the system fairer by reducing that disparity between couples and lone parents. I would not like to stand here to defend why those two groups should be treated differently. I can see the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde twitching but I must move on in order to tackle two of the points he specifically asked me to address.
There are exemptions where couples may have a limited capability to work. That means that couples with children will continue to qualify for working tax credit where one member works at least 16 hours a week and that person is eligible for the working tax credit disability element. In addition, there will be an exemption for some couples with children where only one member works at least 16 hours a week and the other adult does not work, for example where one adult is incapacitated. A couple with children will continue to qualify for working tax credit at 16 hours if one partner is in receipt of disability living allowance.
Moving on to how else we can increase support for lower and middle income earners and improve the rewards to work. On work incentives, which I said I would cover, universal credit has already been mentioned and it is in that area—
Cathy Jamieson
I thank the Minister for giving way. Before she moves on to work incentives, will she address the point about low-paid workers who would find it difficult to get that extra eight hours to stay on the working tax credits, and who will potentially see their incomes drop from £18,000 to £14,000 in a year? What consideration has the Minister given to transitional arrangements or help for that particular group?
Miss Smith
The point I was about to make was that the introduction of universal credit is where the Government anticipate making the most major transitional arrangements, and I note the hon. Lady’s points—and those of other Members in earlier interventions—in particular in relation to retail sector work, for example. Everybody appreciates that the economic climate is hard at the moment—the ideal world is not out there for everybody. I take her point.
Moving on very briefly to the work incentives provided by the universal credit, the phrase has already been used that work must always pay and be seen to do so. One of the key features of universal credit—the hon. Lady will know this—is that it will be paid in and out of work, and that the hours rule will disappear to smooth the transition into work and ensure that that it pays.
Stephen Timms
The Minister’s Department is making the hours rule worse now. It will be better in the future; why is she doing the opposite in her Department?
Miss Smith
We need to move in one direction in this economy, which is to tackle the deficit. I made that point very strongly up front. We must also look to major reforms such as the universal credit, and perhaps before that the Work programme in some cases. There are a number of examples that I look forward to the Government delivering. I have given some; let me give some more that will also answer the points made about what people might get in return.
The Government are investing a further £380 million by 2014-15 to extend the offer of 15 hours of free education and care a week for disadvantaged two-year-olds, which will cover an extra 130,000 children. That is only one element of what the Government will do to help working families. Support has been focused on those on out-of-work benefits—this is a key point that I have no doubt the right hon. Member for East Ham will appreciate. They need greater protection against rising prices than people on working tax credit who are, of course, not solely reliant on this income; they also have income from work, which is key. I do, though, take the points made regarding the difficulty of getting a job in the palm of one’s hand before asking for it.
The Government, however, remains committed to making work pay. As the Chancellor made clear yesterday, the best way to help working people is by taking them out of tax altogether. In April 2012 we will make a £630 increase in the income tax personal allowance, taking it to £8,105. This is in addition to the £1,000 increase in April this year. Together, these increases will benefit 25 million individuals and take 1.1 million low-income individuals out of tax from April 2012.
As I started to articulate, there is then the reform to which I look forward. Universal credit will unify the complex current system of means-tested out-of-work benefits, tax credits and support for housing into one single payment. The award will be withdrawn at a single rate, with the aim of offering a smooth transition into work and encouraging progression into work.
For parents currently on working tax credit, and in the future, the Government continue to provide support for 70% of child care costs—I am conscious that hon. Members have mentioned child care today. That goes up to a weekly limit of £175 for families with one child and £300 for two or more children. Under the universal credit this support will be extended to those working fewer than 16 hours, which will allow 80,000 additional families to receive help with child care costs. That will give second earners and lone parents, typically women, a stronger incentive to work, and I am proud of all those measures.
I shall deal briefly with child poverty and the way in which the Government see it before concluding. Poverty is about more than income; it is about a lack of opportunity, aspiration and stability. We are keen to tackle its root causes, and ensure that children born in low-income families realise their full potential. I have suggested measures that will help, both in the short and long term, but policy in this area has been distorted by a preoccupation with counting the number of children below a certain line, rather than moving families over a real line, as opposed to an imaginary one.
Jonathan Reynolds
Surely, that is the purpose of working tax credits. As has been said, with universal credit, the Government are going in the opposite direction from the policy that the Minister is pursuing; it disincentives people who wish to go out to work, which goes against what she said about the wider impact and causes of poverty. Incentivising people to go into the workplace is the best solution, but this policy moves in completely the opposite direction.
Miss Smith
Indeed, we need to incentivise people to go into the workplace. However, we have less money than we thought, and we have less money than any previous Government cared to highlight. We have to prioritise who we spend that money on. I would rather give it to people who have no other source of work—in other words, those on out-of-work benefits, rather than those on in-work benefits. That is a sensible principle.
To conclude, the Government have had to take urgent action to tackle what is unsustainable in broader economic terms as well as an unsustainable Welfare Reform Bill. Spending on tax credits has increased from £18 billion in 2003-04 to an estimated £30 billion last year, which is unsustainable and unfair, given the examples that I have mentioned. If we look at the cumulative impact on households of tax, tax credits and benefit reforms introduced both yesterday and before, the top income decile sees the largest reduction in income, both in cash terms and as a percentage of net income. I will take no lectures from the Opposition on believing in more spending, more borrowing and more debt, spent unsustainably and spent unfairly across the income range. I do not think that any working household will thank them for that.
Taxation Freedom Day Bill
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) on securing this debate and those who have spoken in it. By way of a preamble, you, Mr Deputy Speaker, may know that, like Kettering, my Norwich North constituency has a fine history of shoe factories, which sits alongside a history of manufacturing chocolate, mustard and many other fine products that Members are welcome to come and enjoy on their holidays.
The House will be aware that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor will make his autumn statement on Tuesday, so I will not set out the Government’s plans for the future in this debate. However, with that caveat, I will address—or attempt to address—the extensive points made by my hon. Friend and others, with reference to the principles for good taxation, tax simplification and transparency and, of course, the public finances and public spending.
In many ways, tax freedom day is an absolutely excellent idea. We all insist on knowing what we are paying for our goods and services, whether they be chocolates, shoes or anything else. Where we have ongoing payments, we adjust our direct debits so that we know what we owe and pay only that. Understanding the value of paying tax in some simple way should not be sniffed at. To quote the HMRC slogan—I cannot quite believe I am doing this on the Floor of the House—“Tax doesn’t have to be taxing”. Tax and our understanding of its value to the Government should be simple. None of us wants tax to be imposed sneakily, through the back door. We want tax to be proudly transparent.
There is a problem, however, which is that our lives are not that simple. If I paid only income tax, perhaps a basic “money in, money out” assessment could be made, but we have a variety of taxes in this country, which helps to maintain a balance for the individual and the state. Tax provides carrots for some activities and sticks for others. Talking of sticks, I suppose I should note what my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) said, which surprised me somewhat, because I am told that he told the Finance Public Bill Committee in 2010 that he was giving up. Perhaps he would like to confirm that—or not—in the remainder of this debate. [Interruption.] I beg my hon. Friend’s pardon.
Let me return to the more serious content of the debate. Tax rightly provides carrots and sticks, and people will experience taxation differently, depending on their circumstances and choices. For example, my personal tax freedom day may vary if I go out for dinner tonight or drive an extra 30 miles—my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) will remember what I said in a debate with him only a few days ago. If my daily income varies depending on my daily work, my personal tax freedom day might also be different. In summary, if, like some television personalities, I was a supercar-driving, spirit-consuming, cigar or cigarette-smoking, house-buying, asset-selling additional rate payer, I would experience an entirely different tax freedom day from many others.
If our intention is to bring about a better understanding of what happens to our income and how much tax we pay, let us try to do that by striving to improve the perception and interaction of our taxes. We need to be clear about what tax revenue does and about the value of the interaction between the individual and the state. These are complex issues, which sadly are not captured in the calculation of tax freedom day, as set out in the Bill.
Let me work through some of the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering and others. I applaud his championing of the great British taxpayer, and I absolutely applaud his drive for transparency. One strong point of the Bill is that it turns to the independence of the Office for National Statistics. At this point, Mr Deputy Speaker, you would expect me to underline the independence of the Office for Budgetary Responsibility, too, and the benefit it can bring to the way we look at taxation and public spending.
I have heard the point that national tax freedom day has moved by more than 30 days. I was extremely interested to hear the historical point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) who noted, if I recall correctly, that in 1900, it was 22 days —[Interruption.] Does my hon. Friend want to intervene?
Mr Nuttall
I do not have the figures with me, but I think the Minister is giving the figures for America. There was, however, a clear link between them and the figures for here, demonstrating that there has been a massive increase in the tax burden since the turn of the 20th century.
Miss Smith
I thank my hon. Friend for that clarification. I was briefly about to exercise my mental arithmetic by suggesting that while it was 22 days in 1900, it was 19 days in 1910, demonstrating that these figures, like all good things in life, can go down as well as up.
I particularly note the birth date of my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering. May I briefly wish him a happy birthday—with, dare I say it, his 50th birthday falling only the year before the next general election? What a miserable time to have one of one’s major birthdays—in 2004 and 2014! We must do our best to give him a happier birthday in this place than he would otherwise look forward to.
My hon. Friend rightly pointed out that the Government have no money of their own. Taxation is not the Government’s money; it is never that. Taxation is people’s money pooled for the common good. That is my view of taxation. I should note that we spent a good deal of time earlier this morning talking about the value of society in debating the previous Bill. Margaret Thatcher spoke about there being “no such thing as society”, but only individuals. The current Prime Minister has moved the point forwards by saying that there is such a thing as society, but it is not the same as the state. I put myself in both those traditions and, I hope, alongside the views of my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering in feeling myself to be on the side of people who work hard, want the Government off their backs and want to be left with as much money as possible in their pockets to spend according to their own choices.
I was interested to hear the debate about whether tax freedom day would be better under a Conservative or a Labour Government. I note that there might be a cricketing correlation here. I suspect that my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) is a cricketing fan, as am I. He might be interested to think about the successes of the national side in 1981-82, when I regret to have heard tax freedom day might have been at its peak. He is interested in fours and sixes and not singles, so let us see what we can achieve now that England is once again at the top of the cricketing league. Let us hope that Britain is at the top of other leagues.
My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley wishes, I think, to oblige the Government to make tax freedom day as early as possible. I note briefly that his comparison to the United States could be unfortunate, given that a number of American politicians have recently pledged never to increase taxes, which has led to some gridlock in the US political system. I am not sure that we would want to see that here, given the attendant impact on the credit rating of that great country.
Some interesting points of difference have emerged, which it would no doubt be delightful to iron out in Committee. One is about how we might celebrate tax freedom day: should we have a bank holiday or achieve it in some other way? An additional bank holiday will always impact on the economy. Many business people in my constituency and doubtless elsewhere express concern at the idea of having an extra bank holiday.
Philip Davies
Thanks to organisations such as the Adam Smith Institute, we are aware that tax freedom day this year is on 30 May. Does the Minister think she could get the combined brain power of the Treasury on to the case to work out when, if the Government were planning to collect enough in taxes during this year to finance all their spending, tax freedom day would fall?
Miss Smith
I am sure that the combined brains of the Treasury could make those calculations, but I regret to say that my brain, combined or otherwise, is not agile enough to engage in such mental arithmetic on the spot for my hon. Friend’s benefit.
I think that learning of the existence of a “tax app” has enhanced all our lives today. I have only recently acquired a more sophisticated phone. I could not possibly reveal the brand name, but Members should note that I am now tweeting. They may wish to begin following my tweets, as no doubt others will.
As I have said, I noted what was said about taxation on items such as cigarettes and fuel.
Regional variation has been mentioned. My hon. Friends clearly do not want centralised uniformity in any shape or form, and I do not imagine that they would want taxpayers in London, by dint of legislation, to have to pay the same as taxpayers in Wales, or vice versa. I am sure that they support the Government’s actions in not only rebalancing the economy in the direction of a thriving private sector everywhere in the United Kingdom, but creating a thoroughly localist agenda to give people as much freedom locally as possible.
My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley mentioned Belgium and Cyprus. He will be aware that Belgium has had no Government at all for the past 528 days. He might welcome that in principle, but regrettably I am not sure that the average Belgian punter does.
My hon. Friend the Member for Bury North took us for a canter through many different types of tax. He cited Twain, mention of whom, as a lover of literature myself, I always welcome in any debate. He also succeeded in teaching me about the crystal and glass industry—and perhaps you as well, Mr Deputy Speaker. I do not know whether you knew that the stems of some glasses are hollow, but I had no idea that that was the case. In the words of Abba, if I had a little money in a rich man’s world, I might know more about expensive glass and crystal.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. Had I heard a filibuster I would have stopped it, as the hon. Gentleman knows.
Miss Smith
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I had assumed that my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) would appreciate a Minister’s taking the points made by Back Benchers seriously and dealing with them individually, which is what I am endeavouring to do.
Let me return to the subject of tax freedom day, as it is right for me to do in the remaining minutes that are available. My hon. Friend the Member for Kettering invited me specifically to rebut four points. He felt that an aspersion had been cast on the methodology proposed in the Bill. The aspersion that I would cast is that there is no such thing as the average person. That is what chiefly concerns me about the calculation establishing when tax freedom day should fall: I do not believe that it would represent the average citizen in a meaningful way.
My hon. Friend asked me to deal with the way in which the proposed methodology does or does not regard or disregard public benefits. I am glad that he welcomes the fact that taxation has another side, namely what can be done with the money once it has been collected. I shall say more about that in a moment.
My hon. Friend also asked me to discuss whether tax freedom day had or had not varied very little in the last decade. I think that that has been covered by earlier remarks, and by the clarification offered by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North. The numbers do go up and down by small amounts. Like other Members, I have reservations about whether we should burden the Office for National Statistics with this further task—and, indeed, whether we should burden the Treasury, which, as Members will know, is one of the smaller Departments in terms of the number of people who work there. No doubt Members welcome that, and do not wish it to become any larger.
Philip Davies
Given that the Economic Secretary has made such great play of the burden this would impose on Government, will she tell us what estimate the Treasury has made of the increased costs the Government would incur by introducing this measure?
Miss Smith
Unfortunately, I do not have that figure to hand, but I will be happy to look into the matter.
As I suspect my hon. Friend has often argued, both small and large businesses find regulation burdensome, as do citizens. The Government have therefore endeavoured to reduce the amount of regulation, and I question the need for this measure as it is an extra piece of regulation. My hon. Friend also noted that as we can spend on Europe, we should be able to spend on this measure. I agree with his point: we all wish to keep firm control on what we spend in respect of the European Union.
In the March Budget, the Chancellor set out the Government’s principles of good taxation. Our taxes should be efficient and support growth. They should also be certain and predictable: they should be simple to understand and easy to comply with. The tax system should be fair, and should reward work, support aspiration and ask for the most from those who can afford it most. Those are the principles to which we are committed, and against which our tax system should be judged.
In trying to meet those principles, our taxes will necessarily become clearer, a goal to which we all aspire. In debating tax in general, its role in our economy and why the burden of taxation may be felt more keenly at certain times, we must bear in mind our current economic situation. Britain had endured the longest and deepest recession in living memory, we were borrowing £1 for every £4 we were spending, and we had the largest budget deficit in our peacetime history—one of the largest in Europe, and the largest in the G20—yet following the 2010 general election no detailed plan to deal with all that had been left in place by the previous Government.
That was not the end of the story. In the preceding decade Britain had slipped down the international league of competitiveness, falling from fourth to 12th. We had seen our share of world exports decline. We were considered to be a worse country in which to start a business than many of our European neighbours. That was this coalition Government’s inheritance.
We have therefore set about restoring confidence and stability to our economy, with a clear strategy for growth. At the heart of that strategy is a credible plan to tackle the enormous budget deficit, which we are already implementing.
One part of that plan is making changes to taxation. We must understand the changes this Government have made in order to see that a tax freedom day does not fully accord with what we want to achieve. For any taxation, we must, of course, make it clear why we are asking for a contribution, what we are doing in terms of public spending to balance changes in taxation, and why it is important to strengthen the public finances.
Growth is a key component of a strong economy; all parties agree on that. In the Budget we set out four economic ambitions: that Britain should have the most competitive tax system in the G20; that Britain should be the best place in Europe in which to start, finance and grow a business; that we should seek to be a more balanced economy by encouraging exports and investment; and that we should have a more educated work force, who should be the most flexible work force in Europe.
For the past decade Britain has been losing ground in the world economy. Other nations have reduced their business taxes further and faster, and some have removed barriers to enterprise, while ours have grown higher still. We cannot afford for that to continue.
Our plan for growth is based on private sector enterprise, not public sector borrowing. It is based on growing businesses, not growing debts, and on securing sustainable long-term investment. An essential aspect of that is creating a competitive tax system that enables our businesses to compete on the global stage and that gives value to businesses in ways that this Bill would struggle to measure.
Mr Hollobone
claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36), but the Deputy Speaker withheld his assent and declined to put that Question.
Miss Smith
I shall briefly move on to something that will be of significant interest to hon. Members and to the businesses that I have just begun speaking about, which is modernising the administration of the personal tax system and creating proper tax transparency for individuals. I note that a fine document is being given out by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs at the moment. Hon. Members could encourage businesses and individuals in their constituencies to respond to it and help in the effort that we all want to see to improve the understanding of taxes—
Fuel Prices
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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Owen Smith
I presume that the hon. Gentleman could confirm—I am not going to give way to him once more to give him a chance to do so—that he spoke to the Whips beforehand. I say that because the motion does not reflect what he wanted in his e-petition. What the motion rather coyly says is that the Government should
“consider the feasibility of a price stabilisation mechanism”,
thereby conceding that what the Chancellor said he was delivering is fiction. It is not a stabiliser; it is merely a gimmick, as we have come to expect from this Government. Why should anybody trust the Tories on fuel tax? Similarly, we should not trust them on VAT because they always say that they are not going to put VAT up and when they get in, they do.
At this point, I must give Government Members a bit of a history lesson, because we have heard such rot this afternoon about the Labour Government’s record on fuel tax. Between 1979 and 1997, during the last period of Tory government, the Tories increased fuel duty fivefold—not a five-point plan but a fivefold increase in fuel duty, which went up from 8p to 45p by the time they left office. During the ’90s, when they invented the fuel duty escalator, fuel duty increased from 59% to 75% of the price per litre. That is what we inherited when came to government. It was left to Labour effectively to stabilise prices by freezing successive—[Laughter.] Hon. Members may laugh but they really ought to read the facts before they come into the Chamber and speak. Let me quote from the House of Commons note that was prepared for this debate:
“Duty rates were cut or frozen for around six years from early 2000…By autumn 2008 duty was lower…in real terms”
than at any point since 1996.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Owen Smith
In a moment. What is the reality of what the Government did—[Hon. Members: “Stop pointing!”] I think she is worth pointing at. What is the reality of what the Government did in the Budget? It merely takes us back to where we were in 2008. Far from it being a substantive change, this is once again smoke and mirrors from the Government. They say there is nothing they can do but there is a choice—there is always a choice in politics.
Miss Smith
Did the hon. Gentleman vote against the Finance Bill measures? Did he vote for the fuel duty cut that we proposed?
Owen Smith
We have heard that utterly specious remark all the way through. We voted against the entire Budget, which we feel is choking off growth in this country. There is a choice the Government could take—they could choose to act. They should act today and implement a plan—plan A or plan B, we do not mind what it is called. They should just do something.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
I very much welcome the opportunity to debate this motion and I shall happily correct a few points that the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) has just made. Most importantly, this is a chance to listen to and consider the contributions of hon. Members on both sides of the House. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on securing the debate and moving the motion and I apologise to him for missing a few minutes of his speech initially. Let me take this chance also to congratulate the Backbench Business Committee and the 100,000 and more petitioners who have put this issue forward for debate today. Unlike many Opposition Members, I do not disparage the motion. I respect this as an avenue of democracy.
Even though average pump prices have fallen over the summer, there is little doubt that the cost of fuel remains a very difficult issue and a concern to many families and businesses across the country—and, indeed, to young people. The hon. Member for Wells (Tessa Munt) mentioned students and the Youth Parliament. Let me say for the record and for the hon. Members for Pontypridd and for East Lothian (Fiona O'Donnell), that both my primary and secondary schools were comprehensives. I fully respect the needs of all those across the whole of society.
Elizabeth Truss
Does the Minister agree that many people in rural Norfolk where she grew up will struggle to find an alternative to using their car, and that we need to reflect that in our policies?
Miss Smith
I welcome that point from my hon. Friend and near neighbour. I should like to reassure her constituents, as well as motorists up and down the land, whether they are in rural, suburban or urban areas, that this Government have listened to their concerns and will continue to do so. However, today is not the day to try to change taxes—that is for the Budget. Today is to listen.
From our first Budget last year—indeed, from when we were in Opposition, when we said, as the hon. Member for Pontypridd has pointed out, that we would introduce a fair fuel stabiliser—this coalition Government have listened and acted. In the Budget in March, we announced a £2 billion package to support motorists at a time of record pump prices. However, the Labour party, including the hon. Gentleman, whom I do not believe was there at 4 am when many of the rest of us were, failed to support that package, which was supported by the Federation of Small Businesses on behalf of, for example, van drivers.
Before I come to specific points raised in the motion, I will explain why the Government took the action that they did in the Budget.
Owen Smith
Does the hon. Lady agree that the price stabiliser is not what it was described as being by the Chancellor and the Prime Minister when they were in opposition? It does not link pump prices to oil prices.
Miss Smith
It is the Labour party that wants a price stabiliser, and I shall come to that. Our fair fuel stabiliser aims to do other things, and I shall deal with that in due course.
Motoring is an essential part of everyday life for many households and businesses, and the cost of fuel affects us all. The Government recognise that the price of petrol is a significant part of day-to-day spending. We know that high oil prices are causing real difficulties with regard to the affordability of motoring. It is important that a responsible Government listen, consider and act.
It was the previous Government who, in the 2009 Budget, introduced a fuel duty escalator. That involved planning for seven fuel duty increases after the 12 that they had already made. None of those planned increases was subject to either oil price or pump price movements. Despite what Labour Members may claim now, and the synthetic anger referred to earlier in the debate, the previous Government had no plans whatever to support motorists. The right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) said, “We are where we are.” It is regrettable that the previous Government did not act to prevent us from being where we are. From the very beginning of this coalition Government, we have looked at how we could ease the burden on motorists. We acted with a £2 billion plan to ease that burden.
Miss Smith
I am terribly sorry, but I am very short of time. I need to explain how we acted. We acted by cutting fuel duty by 1p per litre from 6pm on Budget day.
Miss Smith
Time is short; hon. Members will appreciate that I need to press on. We acted by cancelling the previous Government’s fuel duty escalator for the rest of the Parliament. We acted by introducing a fair fuel stabiliser that will better share the burden of high oil prices between motorists and oil companies, and we acted by ensuring that there are no fuel duty increases at all this year.
Miss Smith
No. I am sorry, but there is not time.
I need to explain to the hon. Lady that we deferred the inflation-only increase that was planned for April 2011 to January 2012, and deferred the 2012-13 increase to 1 August 2012.
Miss Smith
No, I will not. I need to press on.
There have been calls for the Government not to go ahead with those two duty increases. I can understand that, and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor understands that, but let us not forget that those increases remained in the Budget so that we can deal with the record deficit that we inherited. This is a time of international instability, and the difficult decisions that the Government have taken to tackle the deficit have made Britain safer for householders. Our reduction plan has led to low interest rates, which help householders through their mortgages.
Miss Smith
The hon. Lady will appreciate that I need to leave time for Back Benchers to respond to the debate. In addition to the cut in fuel duty, which hon. Members have, of course, welcomed today, the Budget announced further support that will benefit motorists. Our fuel duty cut came on top of the freeze in vehicle excise duty for hauliers that hon. Members mentioned.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. The Minister has made it absolutely clear that she is not giving way for the duration of her speech.
Miss Smith
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.
I need to explain that our fuel duty cut was on top of an increase in approved mileage allowance payments; that helps employees and volunteers who use their own cars. I think that, in the light of their speeches this afternoon, my hon. Friends the Members for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), and for High Peak (Andrew Bingham), will welcome that. That is all on top of the increase in the personal allowance, cuts in corporation tax, above-inflation increases in child tax credits, and the triple guarantee for pensioners. That is real help for motorists, businesses and families, as my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) said.
Let us not forget that although the Opposition have talked so much today about helping motorists, they could not even bring themselves to offer their support for the fuel duty cut, or the increase in the supplementary charge on oil and gas companies to fund it, in the Finance Bill debates.
Miss Smith
No; I am terribly sorry. Today, average pump prices are approximately 6p per litre lower than they would have been if we had continued with the previous Government’s planned escalator, which the Opposition are so keen to airbrush out of history. That means that a typical Ford Focus driver would have been £56 better off in 2011-12, and an average haulier £1,700 in 2011-12. [Interruption.] Opposition Members are chuntering and trying to suggest that motorists would be better off under their plans for an escalator and a VAT rate of 17.5%. We know that the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) was planning to increase VAT.
The Opposition cannot say where £12 billion of extra expenditure would come from, and it is simply not true that motorists would at present be better off under the previous Government’s plans. When comparing the changes that we announced in the Budget with the previous Government’s fuel duty and VAT plans, pump prices are approximately 3p a litre lower. By the end of the Parliament, average pump prices will be 3.5p a litre lower. Cutting fuel duty and scrapping their escalator will more than offset the impact of the increase in VAT.
I shall quickly address the issue of whether oil price falls this summer have been passed on at the pump, which is a matter of concern to hon. Members who have participated in the debate and to many of our constituents. For motorists to realise the benefits, as we all wish them to do, retailers need to pass those on at the forecourt. Individual pricing decisions are for retailers—we have heard about competition from my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker) and others—and the Office for Fair Trading is not aware of any evidence that would allow it to launch an investigation.
The Chancellor has made it clear that although the Government can control the duty rate it cannot control the world oil price. After such a good debate, I hope that I speak for Members from all parts of the House in saying that we all want motorists to benefit as much as possible from falls in oil prices. A number of complexities mean that pricing is not the same at every petrol station in every part of the country, but overall prices today are lower than they were at the beginning of the summer, just as they were lower at 6 pm on Budget day after we cut prices by 1p. They are 6p a litre lower because of the actions taken by this Government.
Furthermore, I regret to say that the motion is wrong about fuel duty receipts, which have not fallen by £1 billion since 2008. Official receipt data show that receipts have increased in recent years. Let me deal briefly with the fair fuel stabiliser. The support we are providing to the motorist needs to be paid for. My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) referred to sound Conservative principles, and this is one of which I am proud—things must be paid for—and it is fair that companies make a higher contribution. Only in that way can we support the motorist in a way that is fair, affordable and transparent. Updates on the introduction of a rural fuel duty rebate will be available to hon. Members who are interested in that, and we must do what we need to do in a sustainable manner.
Treasury
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)
4. What assessment he has made of the effects of the 2011 Budget on unemployment amongst women.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
The Office for Budget Responsibility published its unemployment forecasts in March 2011, taking full account of announcements at Budget 2011, but it does not publish forecasts by gender. The Government are committed to tackling unemployment and helping support women into work. The hon. Lady will be aware that female employment has remained broadly steady since the start of 2008. Employment among women aged 25 to 64 is up more than 100,000 since the start of 2008, and has risen by 15,000 in the last three months.
Fiona Mactaggart
I was welcoming a young woman to the Front Bench, and I am glad to see young people representing people in this Parliament, but I do think it is shocking that we currently have the highest level of unemployment in more than 20 years—
Miss Smith
I have a number of things to say to the hon. Lady, none of which would include any personal questions, of course.
I can assure the hon. Lady that the Government are reducing the deficit fairly, and I would point out in particular that we are taking 1.1 million of the lowest-paid workers out of tax entirely, and the majority of them are women. She will welcome that as much as I do. Furthermore, she should know that unemployment rose to its level of 30% under her party’s Government.
[Official Report, 1 November 2011, Vol. 534, c. 745.]
Letter of correction from Miss Chloe Smith:
Errors have been identified in the oral answers given on 1 November 2011. The correct answers should have been:
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
The Office for Budget Responsibility published its unemployment forecasts in March 2011, taking full account of announcements at Budget 2011, but it does not publish forecasts by gender. The Government are committed to tackling unemployment and helping support women into work. The hon. Lady will be aware that female employment has remained broadly steady since the start of 2008. Employment among women aged 25 to 64 is up more than 100,000 since the start of 2008, and has risen by 15,000 in the three months to August 2011.
Miss Smith
I have a number of things to say to the hon. Lady, none of which would include any personal questions, of course.
I can assure the hon. Lady that the Government are reducing the deficit fairly, and I would point out in particular that we are taking 1.1 million of the lowest-paid workers out of tax entirely, and the majority of them are women. She will welcome that as much as I do. Furthermore, she should know that female unemployment rose by 30% under her party's Government.
Oral Answers to Questions
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)
4. What assessment he has made of the effects of the 2011 Budget on unemployment amongst women.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
The Office for Budget Responsibility published its unemployment forecasts in March 2011, taking full account of announcements at Budget 2011, but it does not publish forecasts by gender. The Government are committed to tackling unemployment and helping support women into work. The hon. Lady will be aware that female employment has remained broadly steady since the start of 2008. Employment among women aged 25 to 64 is up more than 100,000 since the start of 2008, and has risen by 15,000 in the last three months.
Fiona Mactaggart
But with both women’s unemployment and the retail prices index at a higher level than at any time since the Chancellor left university—which was probably when the hon. Lady left primary school— [Interruption.] I do not—[Interruption.]
Miss Smith
I have a number of things to say to the hon. Lady, none of which would include any personal questions, of course.
I can assure the hon. Lady that the Government are reducing the deficit fairly, and I would point out in particular that we are taking 1.1 million of the lowest-paid workers out of tax entirely, and the majority of them are women. She will welcome that as much as I do. Furthermore, she should know that unemployment rose to its level of 30% under her party’s Government.[Official Report, 3 November 2011, Vol. 534, c. 6MC.]
Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend also agree that one of the most important steps this Government have taken is to exempt from the pay freeze the lowest-paid workers in the public sector, 80% of whom are women?
Miss Smith
I certainly do welcome that, and it is important to combine that with taking women out of income tax, as I have already mentioned.
Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co-op)
May I genuinely welcome the hon. Lady to her new post? I have no doubt that we will have many exchanges across the Chamber, and I hope we will focus on policy.
Back in May, the Minister claimed that the Government’s approach to the economy was working because there were 14 fewer unemployed claimants in her constituency. What is she saying now that women’s unemployment in the UK has risen to its highest rate since 1988, and, more importantly, what is she going to do about it?
Miss Smith
I will tell the hon. Lady what I am certainly going to do about it, which is join the rest of this Government in working on welfare reform, tax reform, child care reform and many other measures that will take women’s unemployment down from its record level, where her Government left it.
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)
5. What recent estimate he has made of the size of the structural deficit.
Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)
8. What plans he has to bring forward fiscal measures to support green growth.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
The Government are committed to supporting green growth, as is demonstrated by the green investment bank, which was allocated £3 billion in the spending review, by the carbon price floor, which is designed to drive investment in low-carbon power generation, and by the green deal, which supports households and businesses in increasing their energy efficiency at no up-front cost.
Andrew George
May I, too, extend a very warm welcome to my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary?
In the Budget, the Chancellor pledged to consider incentives to encourage take-up of the green deal. One idea is to have a stamp duty particularly for the least energy-efficient homes. How does my hon. Friend intend to advance those incentives and is she prepared to meet me and industry representatives to find a way forward with the Chancellor’s incentives?
Miss Smith
May I take this opportunity to thank my hon. Friend and others for their kind words regarding my role?
As I have mentioned, the green deal is a key part of supporting such green growth and the Government are taking a range of actions to help people to gain control of their household energy bills. I certainly note my hon. Friend’s suggestion and I am happy to meet him to discuss options within public finance constraints.
Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
May I also welcome the new Minister to her post? She will be aware of the importance to the UK economy of energy-intensive industries such as the steel, chemicals and ceramics industries. German competitors in such industries are benefiting from rebates worth more than €5 billion a year; will she consult the Chancellor and make sure that the pre-Budget report includes a special package of measures for those industries so that rising energy costs do not simply result in jobs being exported abroad?
Miss Smith
I know that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor is looking into exactly this and we shall be reporting back on it.
Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)
9. How many firms have participated in the national insurance holiday for new businesses.
Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)
15. What fiscal measures he is taking to encourage job creation in the private sector.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
In Budget 2011 the Government put in place a wide range of measures to support job creation, including supporting business growth by aiming to create the most competitive tax system in the G20, and helping to ensure that it always pays to work, by increasing the personal allowance.
Laura Sandys
I would like to add my welcome to my hon. Friend at the Dispatch Box.
Having run two small businesses, I understand the pressures that small businesses in South Thanet face. How much less will we tax small businesses in the coming years as a result of our tax cuts and the national insurance freeze?
Miss Smith
My understanding is that, compared with the plans of the previous Government, businesses will pay £3 billion less in employer national insurance contributions and more than £1 billion less in corporation tax, as a result of changes announced in Budget 2010.
Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)
Small businesses have been frequent attenders at my regular Friday surgeries, and they tell me that business is hard. Now that the hon. Lady’s party’s Chancellor has presided over the slowest economic recovery since the first world war, will she explain to small businesses in Wirral how they are supposed to get out of this mess?
Miss Smith
This has been one of the deepest recessions on record, and it is no wonder that times are very hard for people. The hon. Lady must take note of the fact that overall, more than two jobs have been created in the private sector for every one lost in the public sector, which is very clear progress on what her Government left behind.
Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)
I know that VAT is a somewhat sensitive subject in this place, but has the Minister made an analysis of the costs and benefits and the jobs that would be created by reducing VAT on building refurbishment materials?
Miss Smith
It is indeed a very good question. I am, sadly, aware that many costs are associated with such a policy, but I would be very happy to discuss such things with the hon. Lady.
Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
16. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on funding for the regional growth fund.
Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)
17. What recent assessment he has made of the potential effect on household spending of an increase in interest rates.
The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
The Bank of England is responsible for monetary policy, as my hon. Friend knows, and setting the bank rate to meet its inflation target. Action by this Government in the comprehensive spending review and the Budget put the public finances on a sustainable footing and has supported low and stable interest rates. The higher interest rates seen in other countries highlight the risks when financial markets lose confidence in a Government.
Oliver Colvile
Home owners clearly benefit from having low interest rates, but inflation damages savers and consumers. Will my hon. Friend explain how the Government’s inflation target is set, and the criteria used to review it?
Miss Smith
I shall, by reference to correspondence, that my hon. Friend will be well able to delve into, between the Chancellor and the Governor of the Bank of England, but I note at this point that the Government believe that low and stable medium-term inflation is a prerequisite for economic growth, and that is what drives our policy.
Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Air Passenger Duty
Chloe Smith Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Smith)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley (Henry Smith) on securing this debate and thank him for his response to the air passenger duty consultation earlier this year.
I will address the content of my hon. Friend’s speech and some of the specific points raised by hon. Members in a moment. First, let me say as the new Minister responsible for APD that not only did it fall on my desk with a thump in my first week, but the main challenge is to get the policy right for the long-term benefit of passengers, the industry, the economy and those who have responded to the consultation. I very much agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of the aviation sector. That goes without saying for all of us here in the debate. It employs substantial numbers of people—my hon. Friend’s constituents and others—directly or indirectly in the UK and is among the most productive sectors of the economy. I recognise that aviation is also an enabler and a catalyst for many businesses in the UK. The hon. Members for Belfast East (Naomi Long) and for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) pointed out the vital need for joined-up government so that we can get taxation and regulation functioning sensibly together and contributing to growth in the economy.
Let us be very clear: we all want UK aviation, and sectors such as the travel industry that rely on aviation, to succeed. That was the starting point for the APD consultation launched at Budget. It is why my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Justine Greening), spent a lot of time over the past year talking and listening to airports, airlines and various organisations, including those overseas, to understand their concerns, and I hope to do the same. I note that she will be spending more time on transport issues than she might have anticipated only a few days ago. It is because we understand the pressures facing consumers, as my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley has outlined very capably, that the Chancellor froze APD in the Budget in March.
Despite that, some people have called for a cut in APD. We must be frank about the situation in which we find ourselves, as my hon. Friend has said. When we came to office last year, we inherited a fiscal deficit of historic proportions, and action has been necessary to try to steady the ship, if you will forgive another transport pun, Mr Deputy Speaker. If we are to put the economy back on the path to sustainable growth, it is imperative that we tackle the deficit and that we take contributions from all parts of society. Unfortunately, I cannot promise the House that APD will be cut in the near future. I know that many hon. Members are concerned about other aspects of APD, including the changes that the previous Government made to the structure of APD in 2009. My hon. Friend has referred to some of those changes and their impact on our Commonwealth partners.
Many stakeholders have complained about the previous Government’s changes to the banding structure of APD. Some have pointed to the anomalies created by that structure, including my hon. Friend, and we have received a number of representations from those who feel that flights to Caribbean destinations are unfairly penalised. Following in my predecessor’s footsteps, I will hold a series of meetings with stakeholders on that subject.
Mr Slaughter
I congratulate the Minister on her appointment, although she has been handed a bit of a poisoned chalice.
My constituents who travel regularly to the Caribbean are concerned about the anomaly. Before the election, the hon. Member for Putney (Justine Greening), who was then shadow Economic Secretary, often posed in photographs with Ministers from the Caribbean and gave assurances about those anomalies. We understand that many other assurances will not be kept, including on the move to per-plane duty. Will the Minister at least give us the comfort that the Caribbean anomaly, if I can put it that way, will be addressed, whatever the Government propose?
Miss Smith
I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman an assurance that I shall carry on meeting representatives from the Caribbean and, indeed, from Australia and New Zealand very shortly, to discuss those concerns. I am afraid, however, for reasons I shall come on to, that it is rather difficult at this precise moment to give him further assurances, because the Government are due to respond to the consultation. I shall shortly deal with the detail of that, and with his points about per-plane duty.
The good news is that the consultation enabled Ministers to go into all those issues in more detail. The hon. Gentleman will know that in the Budget, the Chancellor announced that, for the first time, as my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley described, APD would be extended to passengers flying aboard business jets, which is another important feature that we have made clear. That addresses a clear unfairness in the system, and the consultation invited views on how that should be addressed.
I cannot promise the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter) or anyone else that we will meet everyone’s wishes, but we will try to deliver an APD system that is fairer, simpler and more efficient, and the Chancellor will set out those details in due course. On the hon. Gentleman’s point about per-plane duty, to make the position clear, the UK’s international obligations in that area include air service agreements with more than 150 countries, including the 1944 Chicago convention. We will not introduce per-plane duty at present because of concerns about legality and feasibility. We will, however, work with international partners to continue building consensus.
Gavin Shuker
I want to make just a small observation. Before the election, the Conservatives campaigned on moving to a per-plane duty. Given the complexity that the Minister mentioned, can she shed some light on why they said that they would do so?
Miss Smith
The glory of coming into government is that one realises that all sorts of things are worse than one imagined, and that is a case in point. As I have said, the legality and feasibility of that approach have been clarified quite extensively.
I will touch briefly on the question of the devolution of APD. As hon. Members will know, the Chancellor announced that from 1 November 2011 the rate of APD for direct, long-haul passengers departing from Northern Ireland will be cut to the short-haul rate, which I hope we all agree is good for constituents in Belfast East and elsewhere in Northern Ireland. That measure was in response to the unique challenge facing Northern Ireland and is designed to ensure that local airports remain competitive. However, in order to provide a permanent solution to the issue, the Government have launched a process for the devolution of APD to the Northern Ireland Assembly. We are working in close consultation with the Executive to take that forward. I would also like to offer my thanks, and those of my predecessor, to members of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee for the diligent and helpful input they provided on the issue.
Let me also say a few words about APD and the regions, which hon. Members may be interested in. We received around 500 responses to the APD consultation, many of which related specifically to the question of regional APD rates. It is certainly fair to say that there is no consensus on the matter. Some regional airports have asked us to consider lower APD rates for the regions, but several airlines and hon. Members have asked us to consider the opposite. I note the views of my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley in this regard. On that question, and on the broader reform of APD, the Government aim to publish a full response to the consultation later this autumn. We will of course take into account the views expressed in this debate.
There is one other issue that has been raised which I must address quickly: the environmental impact of aviation. We must recognise the scale of the challenge that confronts us. Since 1990, CO2 emissions from UK aviation have more than doubled. In 2010 they accounted for around 6% of total UK CO2 emissions. As other sectors decarbonise over the coming decades, aviation emissions are likely to make up an increasingly large proportion of total UK emissions. The Government’s approach to this problem is a pragmatic one. The international nature of aviation requires an international response, which is why we support the inclusion of aviation in the EU emissions trading system from 2012. At the same time, the Department for Transport, in true joined-up fashion, is considering the best way to tackle local environmental impacts as part of its aviation policy review.
I know that some have called for the abolition of APD once aviation enters the ETS, but I must point out, as others have done, that APD is fundamentally a revenue-raising duty and currently raises around £2.5 billion a year. The forecast revenues that will result from aviation joining the ETS are only around £0.1 billion a year, reflecting the fact that under the relevant EU directive most of the allowances for the system will be given to airlines for free. In looking forward, however, the Government will assess the revenue requirements from aviation taxes, including those from the ETS, in the round.
In conclusion, I hope that we can continue to have constructive debates in a way that helps deliver a tax system for air transport that is fair and sustainable for the long term and puts us on a positive footing in the world. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley again for bringing this matter to the attention of the House.
Question put and agreed to.