Burma

Lord Swire Excerpts

Tuesday 8th April 2014 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

I am making a joint statement with my right hon. Friend the Minister of State for International Development. Together we wish to inform the House that the Government are today publishing a summary of the UK’s activities in Burma.

The last three years in Burma have seen remarkable change. Burma is undertaking a complex transition: from an authoritarian military regime to democratic Government; from a centrally directed to a market oriented economy; and from decades of conflict to peace in the border areas.

British engagement has grown rapidly since Burma embarked on its path of reform. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the Department for International Development (DFID), UK Trade and Investment (UKTI), the Ministry of Defence (MOD) and the British Council are all now established and active in Rangoon. We work closely with the Burmese authorities, Aung San Suu Kyi and the opposition, civil society, businesses and communities to encourage a stable, democratic and prosperous Burma and to urge Burma to play a constructive role in the international community.

My visit to Burma from 28 to 30 January 2014 was an opportunity to see the positive developments since my first trip in 2012, and to urge progress on the many challenges which remain. In meetings with Government Ministers, the military, Aung San Suu Kyi, ethnic and community leaders, I underlined the UK’s commitment to supporting further reform, not least to address the many outstanding human rights concerns. As I made it clear in a speech at the British Council in Rangoon, 2014 will be a critical year for Burma—particularly for the prospects of constitutional reform and the peace process, both of which will be vital to Burma’s future. I also emphasised that Burma must take concerted action to tackle the humanitarian situation and the continuing inter-communal tensions, including those affecting the Rohingya community in Rakhine state in particular.

DFED has recently allocated an additional £5.8 million of humanitarian funding to help meet the emergency needs of both communities in Rakhine state, bringing the UK’s total allocation for emergency humanitarian work there to £12 million since 2012. In 2014, DFID has also allocated a further £8 million of assistance to Burma’s peace process.

We know there is considerable parliamentary interest and expertise in Burma, given the deep and historic links between our two countries. Today, therefore, the Government publish a summary of the UK’s activities in Burma, to set out as clearly as possible our main activities there. I will place a copy of this document in the Library of the House. It is also available on the gov.uk website.

Our main activities in Burma focus on democracy and human rights, tackling inter-communal tensions, peace-building, development, trade and investment, and wider international co-operation. They are carefully calibrated to ensure transparency, value for money and a balanced approach: our aim is to support reformers in Burma, while pressing for further progress on issues of continuing concern. The summary makes clear the strength and breadth of our commitment to this. The UK remains determined to play its part in Burma’s transition, to the benefit of all Burma’s people, its neighbours, and the wider international community.

LGBT Rights (Uganda)

Lord Swire Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd April 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela Nash) for securing this debate. I am aware from having done my research that she has a great affinity with Uganda and has family and friends there, and she has often visited, including as a Commonwealth Parliamentary Association member.

Members on both sides of the House share a commitment to protecting minority rights, not only in Uganda but all around the world. As we have just heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert), alas, the lack of such protection it is all too prevalent and widespread around the world.

The depth of feeling on the issue is reflected in the way it has been the subject now of two debates in the House in as many months. Regrettably, other ministerial commitments prevent the Minister with responsibility for Africa, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mark Simmonds), from being here today. But in the debate on 12 February he emphasised that combating violence and discrimination against LGBT communities forms an integral part of our tireless efforts to protect and promote human rights internationally.

We share the concern about the discriminatory legislation passed by the Ugandan Parliament late last year and signed into law by President Museveni on 24 February. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary was clear in his statement that same day that the United Kingdom strongly opposes discrimination on any grounds and questions the compatibility of the anti-homosexuality Act with Uganda’s constitution and international treaty obligations, which I understand are being looked at in that country at the moment.

We have left the Ugandan Government in absolutely no doubt about how strongly we feel about this issue, as well as the significant damage done to Uganda’s reputation internationally. My hon. Friend the Minister for Africa raised the issue with the Ugandan Foreign Minister on 28 January, with the Deputy Foreign Minister on 13 February and with the Ugandan high commissioner on 18 March. He hopes to meet the Ugandan Foreign Minister at the EU-Africa summit in Brussels, which began today. Our high commissioner to Uganda discussed the issue at length with President Museveni on 11 March. In recent weeks she has also met the Ugandan Minister for Justice, the Inspector General of Police, the Foreign Minister and the Deputy Foreign Minister to seek assurances on the protection of individuals and the impact of the legislation.

We are also making representations through the EU. At a political dialogue meeting on 28 March, the EU called on Uganda to repeal the Anti-Homosexuality Act, to reconfirm its commitment to human rights and to ensure protection and equal treatment under the law for citizens. We fully endorse those calls. Ugandan Ministers present included the Ministers for Foreign Affairs, Finance, Planning and Economic Development, Internal Affairs, Ethics and Integrity and Information.

I join in the condemnation we have heard from hon. Members today of the contemptible journalism, if it can even be described as such, in both Red Pepper and Rolling Stone. At every stage of our contact with the Ugandan authorities, they have given us assurances that their intention is not to undermine the personal security of the LGBT community. When we have informed the police about the persecution of individuals, they have responded immediately to ensure their security. However, I absolutely take the point the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts made. We will certainly want to look at any project designed to protect the LGBT community very closely and in great detail when it is presented to us.

[Pamela Nash]

Is the Minister saying that the UK Government’s advice to LGBT people in Uganda who feel at risk because they are LGBT is to call the police so that they can protect them, because the police will be enforcing a law that means they could be imprisoned because they are gay?

[Mr Swire]

I can only explain what has happened to date. I was responding to the hon. Lady’s request in the second part of what I was saying. I repeat that we will certainly want to look at any project designed to protect the LGBT community very closely and in great detail if it is presented to us. We will continue to hold the authorities to their assurances to investigate any attacks fully and to urge the Ugandan Government to protect all their citizens from discrimination. The hon. Lady also talked about monitoring human rights abuses. We have a human rights report, of course, but we will certainly consider her very relevant point and see what more we can do.

We have listened carefully to calls, in this debate and elsewhere, for us to consider sanctions against those who have supported the anti-homosexuality law. The United Kingdom has already ended budget support payments to the Ugandan Government following concerns about corruption last year. Our development programme to Uganda goes through a variety of channels, including private sector organisations, non-governmental organisations and multilateral agencies. As my hon. Friend the Minister for Africa said in the debate on 12 February, we do not believe that imposing travel bans or any other sanctions on supporters of the Bill would be effective in promoting a rethink.

It is worth bearing it in mind that there is widespread support for the legislation in Uganda. We must therefore be mindful of the requests made to the international community not to make well-intentioned public statements and threats that many activists in Uganda fear would be counter-productive and likely to worsen the situation of LGBT individuals or harm efforts to promote LGBT rights. That is also our assessment. In that regard, I note that the guidelines issued on 3 March by the Ugandan Civil Society Coalition on Human Rights and Constitutional Law, which includes LGBT groups, including Sexual Minorities Uganda, do not call for travel bans or other sanctions.

[Crispin Blunt]

It is a bit strange, then, that the chairman of Sexual Minorities Uganda, who has been here and has met my hon. Friend’s colleagues, including the Foreign Secretary—we are profoundly grateful to the Foreign Secretary for giving the time to see him—has asked for these travel bans. I am not quite sure what is going on, and different interpretations appear to be being placed on it. I urge my hon. Friend to take this up, because it is absolutely not the message that we are receiving.

[Mr Swire]

It is certainly not the message that we are receiving. I repeat that the Ugandan Civil Society Coalition on Human Rights and Constitutional Law, which includes LGBT groups, including SMUG, does not call for travel bans or other sanctions. However, I am happy to discuss this with my hon. Friend, and the door of my hon. Friend the Minister for Africa is open to him if he has other information.

[Pamela Nash]

I am grateful to the Minister for being so generous with time; he is probably here a little later than he expected. Let me clarify this point. There have been calls not to implement travel bans for all Members of Parliament and all Government officials who have been involved, but a very specific list exists—I am sure that the hon. Member for Reigate (Crispin Blunt) and I could share it with the Minister—of certain politicians who have actively been promoting the Bill. The hon. Gentleman read out a list of those working for the newspaper, Red Pepper, and several other activists. SMUG had previously asked that not all Government officials and Members of Parliament be given travel bans because that would not be helpful.

[Mr Swire]

I commit my absent hon. Friend the Minister for Africa to having a meeting, at which I shall also want to be present, to go through this and look at the information to which the hon. Lady alludes.

What we should be doing is to continue, first, to make it very clear where we stand on this Bill, and on discrimination and harassment against individuals on any grounds; and, secondly, to engage with NGOs and civil society groups on how best to support their efforts to promote LGBT rights in Uganda—something to which the Government remain committed. For example, on 11 February my hon. Friend the Minister for Africa met the executive director of SMUG, Dr Frank Mugisha, at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to hear first hand the challenges faced by the LGBT community in Uganda. Dr Mugisha also met the Under-Secretary of State for International Development, my hon. Friend the Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Lynne Featherstone), and the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker). On 12 March, Dr Mugisha met my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and my noble Friend Baroness Warsi to discuss latest developments following the introduction of the law, the LGBT community’s next step, and how we can continue to work closely together in this even more difficult environment. These meetings with, and access to, senior Ministers demonstrate just how seriously the Government take this issue.

Our high commission in Kampala is working extremely closely with Ugandan civil society groups on the ground to promote inclusivity, diversity and tolerance, in co-ordination with our international partners. We have supported training, advocacy, and legal cases related to the protection of LGBT rights, and have recently supported a Kaleidoscope Trust project working with the LGBT community in Uganda. United Kingdom officials have also engaged extensively with UK and Uganda-based NGOs, including Stonewall, the Kaleidoscope Trust and the Human Dignity Trust, to explain our approach.

Our objective is clear: to improve respect for and protection of LGBT rights. That will involve long-term cultural change, not just legislative fixes, important as they are. And our focus is not only on Uganda—we are only too aware of countries of concern elsewhere in the world. My right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have therefore asked officials across Whitehall to have a fresh look at our global approach on LGBT rights. That review is now under way.

The hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne), who is not in her place, raised the issue of the Commonwealth. Speaking as the Minister for the Commonwealth, I am deeply concerned that over 40 of the 53 countries in the Commonwealth continue to criminalise homosexuality, despite signing up to the Commonwealth charter, which, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs said, includes language opposing “all forms of discrimination”. He mentioned article 4, which is about promoting mutual understanding and respect. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has also written to the Commonwealth secretary-general to seek his support to address that worrying trend in a number of Commonwealth countries.

Over the past three days I have hosted a conference at Wilton Park on the future of the Commonwealth with politicians, diplomats and civil society groups from across its 53 countries. This morning, we invited the Kaleidoscope Trust to run a session on LGBT rights as an integral part of the values expressed in the Commonwealth charter. My absolutely excellent Parliamentary Private Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), was also there throughout. The secretary-general’s recent statement calling for Commonwealth values to be upheld in respect of sexual orientation and gender identity is a welcome step.

Let me conclude by saying that I believe the Government’s record on promoting LGBT rights is second to none. This week we have seen the first gay marriages in the UK take place. I am proud that last Saturday I attended one of the first same-sex marriages in the UK, between the excellent mayor of Exmouth, John Humphreys, and his long-term partner, David Marston—in fact, it is possible that I can lay claim to being the first Minister to attend a same-sex marriage.

Before we pat ourselves on the back, however, it has taken us long time to reach this point, and we need to recognise that it will also take time for others. Nevertheless, universal rights, including for LGBT individuals, are something on which we will not compromise. Free, tolerant and inclusive societies are better able to fulfil the aspirations of their people, and are more resilient and forward looking. Some work needs to be done on the claims made by my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Crispin Blunt) about the adverse effects on GDP for countries that enact regressive legislation of the sort we are discussing. A country that is accountable—

[Pamela Nash]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Swire]

I was just reaching my peroration. The hon. Lady has ruined it, but of course I will give way.

[Pamela Nash]

My deepest apologies to the Minister, who has said that he was concluding. I asked specific questions about DFID funding. I appreciate that DFID is not his Department but I have serious concerns about its money being spent on organisations that are promoting the Bill in Uganda and doing other such work elsewhere. Will he undertake to have a conversation on that with DFID and ask it to put that expenditure on record with an explanation?

[Mr Swire]

There have been a number of questions to DFID Ministers on that point. The hon. Lady will no doubt have seen those and will want to review them. If she has any remaining specific questions about particular aspects of DFID funding, I would advise her to raise those with colleagues in that Department.

As I was saying, a country that is accountable and treats its people with dignity is more likely to foster creativity, ingenuity, economic opportunity and harmony—all prerequisites for long-term stability and security, not least with regard to neighbouring countries. That is a message that the British Government will continue to carry forcefully and ceaselessly around the world and one that, through her eloquence and by securing tonight’s debate, the hon. Lady has helped to ensure will continue to be heard.

Question put and agreed to.

UN Commission of Inquiry (Democratic People's Republic of Korea)

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2014 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

On 28 March the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) passed a resolution on the situation of human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK). I would like to update the House on this resolution and the role the UK has played in its passing.

Unlike in recent years, the resolution was not adopted by consensus. In part this reflects the current composition of the Human Rights Council, which is less supportive of country specific resolutions. But it also reflects the fact that this year’s resolution was much stronger, following the horrific findings of the Commission of Inquiry (COI) into human rights violations in the DPRK and the comprehensive recommendations set out in the inquiry’s report. I am pleased to report that the final text of the resolution supports the report and makes clear the need for violators of human rights and perpetrators of crimes against humanity to be held to account. This includes a specific request that the UN Security Council consider referral of the situation in the DPRK to the appropriate international criminal justice mechanism.

The resolution also proposes concrete measures to ensure the work of the COI is continued. The mandate of the special rapporteur is extended and the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) is requested to provide the rapporteur with increased support, including through a new structure to strengthen monitoring and documentation of the situation of human rights in the DPRK, as well as through engagement and capacity building of others working to address this issue. These measures will ensure that whenever and however the DPRK regime is brought to account, the material will be there to build a strong case against those responsible for violations.

The UK played an active role in negotiations on the resolution, working with EU partners and Japan to ensure a strong first draft, with clear language on accountability. Officials lobbied hard to ensure the resolution would pass, as did I both during my own visit to Geneva at the beginning of the Council and subsequently.

The reports of human rights violations in the DPRK that are documented by the COI are systematic and deeply disturbing. It is incumbent on the international community to respond. This resolution is a good start.

On 31 March 2014, during a pre-planned and pre-advised live-fire exercise, a small number of DPRK artillery shells landed in waters south of the Northern Limit Line (NLL) in the Yellow sea. The South Korean military responded with its own artillery fire into waters on the northern side of the NLL. There were no reported casualties. We would urge both sides to exercise restraint and not to retaliate further. We do not believe this incident is connected to the COI.

Tamils (Sri Lanka)

Lord Swire Excerpts

Tuesday 25th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Mr Scott) for securing this timely debate on the situation of the Tamil people in Sri Lanka, and I pay tribute to him for his tireless work as chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on Tamils in raising the profile of human rights issues in Sri Lanka and seeking progress on accountability for the events that took place during the war, both of which are vital if Sri Lanka is to put its past behind it, thrive in future and achieve lasting peace. I also thank him for acknowledging this Government’s work to secure a strong resolution on Sri Lanka at the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva this week. As he knows, I was in Geneva a few weeks ago and made a speech there in support of the motion with which we are closely involved.

As my hon. Friend knows, human rights in Sri Lanka is an issue that has rightly occupied a great deal of my time since I took over the Sri Lanka portfolio from my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt); it took up a lot of his time too. The decision to attend the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Sri Lanka last November, although criticised by the Labour Opposition at the time, was absolutely the right thing to do, as it brought the concerns of many Sri Lankan people into sharp focus both here in the United Kingdom and around the world.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister saw the situation for himself when he visited the north, as the first Head of Government to do so since 1948. People came out in force to make their voices heard, tell their stories and demand the truth following Sri Lanka’s appalling war. Separately, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and I met civil society and religious leaders and heard about continuing impunity for human rights violations including, as the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) said, disappearances, sexual violence and attacks on religious minorities.

While there, we were also reminded that Sri Lanka is a beautiful country, with the opportunity to build a strong, peaceful and prosperous future. But to do so, the Government of Sri Lanka need to show magnanimity and build the foundations for successful reconciliation. That means going beyond the important steps of reconstructing areas badly affected by the war, reintegrating child soldiers, resettling internally displaced people and de-mining. Incidentally, I am pleased that the United Kingdom contributed an additional £2.1 million last year to support de-mining work in Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka also needs to establish the truth for those who seek it, restore livelihoods to those who have lost them, deliver a sustainable political settlement, ensure an end to impunity, and ensure the independence of the judiciary and space for freedom of speech.

Much of that was reflected in the remarks made by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting, where he raised the United Kingdom’s concerns directly with President Rajapaksa, which he would have been unable to do if he had not gone there in the first place. The Prime Minister made it clear that if Sri Lanka had not properly begun a credible, independent domestic investigation by March, he would use the UK’s seat on the Human Rights Council to call for an international investigation.

[Siobhain McDonagh]

I was always taught that self-praise is no praise. There are many people who must be praised for struggling since 2009 to bring to light the evidence of the terrible atrocities that happened in Sri Lanka. One of them is the film producer Callum Macrae, whose film “No Fire Zone” is up for a documentary award in the One World film festival. Will the Minister congratulate Callum Macrae and extend his thanks to the other people who fought nobly when nobody was prepared to listen?

[Mr Swire]

I pay tribute to all those who have lifted the veil over what has gone on in Sri Lanka, including Channel 4, whose programmes have been dismissed by some elements in the Government in Sri Lanka. A lot of people have been campaigning for the investigation, which I hope will achieve support in the next 48 hours.

The time has come to address these things. The 24 February report of the UN high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, bore out the concerns expressed to us in November. Its assessment was that human rights concerns continue, including compulsory land acquisition, shrinking space for civil society and media, rising religious intolerance and the undermining of independent institutions such as the judiciary. The report also assesses that the Government of Sri Lanka have

“failed to ensure independent and credible investigations into past violations of international human rights and humanitarian law”

on both sides during the war, which Ms Pillay attributes to a lack of political will.

The British Government strongly support that assessment. It is of deep concern that yet again the Government of Sri Lanka have failed to implement the recommendations of a Human Rights Council resolution. Additionally, Ms Pillay’s remarks during her visit to Sri Lanka last year that the country is

“showing signs of heading in an increasingly authoritarian direction”

are also of great concern to us.

Sri Lanka’s failure to investigate human rights violations is the reason why, when I represented the UK at the high-level segment of the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva on 3 March, I called for the international community to act and strongly encouraged the Human Rights Council to unite in supporting the call for an international investigation contained in the draft resolution on Sri Lanka. We are determined to win the council vote, which will take place later this week. The UK has taken a forward-leaning position and provided leadership, and will help break new ground if the council is successful in establishing an international mechanism. That is why my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, my ministerial colleagues at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and I have personally engaged with the majority of Human Rights Council countries. On 21 March, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister led a call for European Council conclusions that put the EU’s full support behind the resolution.

We have been encouraged by the responses, but will continue to press hard for support right up until the vote takes place. We are taking nothing for granted. We have been working extremely closely with non-governmental organisations and other interested groups and listening to their views and aspirations. I take this opportunity to pay tribute again to all the individuals in this House and outside it who have campaigned for this moment. The time has come for a genuinely credible investigation with an international dimension to assess once and for all what went on. It will only help all the people of Sri Lanka move forward.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Swire Excerpts

Tuesday 4th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

4. What steps he plans to take in support of the recent report of the United Nations commission of inquiry on human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

I welcome the recent United Nations report, which exposes shocking human rights violations in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, and I urge the DPRK authorities to respond to its contents. The United Kingdom is actively supporting a strong UN Human Rights Council resolution on the DPRK. Yesterday I was in Geneva, working to deliver a resolution that makes it clear that there can be no impunity for human rights violators.

[Andrew Selous]

As the United Nations has found North Korea to be committing crimes against humanity on a scale unparalleled in the modern world, will the Government refer those responsible to the International Criminal Court and lobby the BBC to broadcast the World Service into North Korea, given the increase in demand for the so-called immoral devices of small radios, the ban on which eased last month? We can no longer say we do not know—it is time to act.

[Mr Swire]

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend’s last comment. On the International Criminal Court, in principle it could be an appropriate forum, although the DPRK has not signed up to it. We strongly agree that there should be no impunity for crimes of this sort, so we need to look at the most effective way of holding the DPRK to account.

On the BBC, my hon. Friend will know that I have been in correspondence with and have attended the all-party group on North Korea to discuss the issue with my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) and the noble Lord Alton. We have approached the BBC and are waiting for its detailed response. I must stress, however, that the BBC World Service is operationally, managerially and editorially independent.

[Diana Johnson]

Does the Minister think that the UN Security Council will agree to a referral to the International Criminal Court, and have there been any discussions about possible targeted sanctions against those responsible for crimes against humanity?

[Mr Swire]

I remind the hon. Lady that I was in Geneva yesterday for the opening day of the UN Human Rights Council. The commission will formally present its report on 17 March, so these are very early days. The annual resolution led by the European Union and Japan will then be taken at the end of the Human Rights Council and we will work with colleagues there to ensure that we have the best possible mechanism to hold the DPRK to account. Incidentally, I believe that when the curtain is finally lifted on that country, we will see evidence of human rights violations that surpass anything we have seen in any other country in the past 50 years.

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that the international community’s response to human rights violations in North Korea has been wholly inadequate to date and that we must now challenge that country with the same emphasis placed on security issues?

[Mr Swire]

I do and I congratulate my hon. Friend on all the work she has been doing. She has arranged a briefing by Open Doors this afternoon—I have asked officials to attend it—to highlight the plight of Christians in the DPRK. I also commend—this is not a plug—a book I have just read by the noble Lord Alton called “Building Bridges”, which is the most shocking account of what has been going on in that country.

[Mr Speaker]

Lord Alton is indeed a great man.

[Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)]

20. What conversations are the UK Government having with China, specifically about the report’s recommendations on the forced repatriation of North Koreans, which is having a devastating impact on Christians who defect to China?

[Mr Swire]

We have had discussions with our Chinese opposite numbers on refoulement—that is, the repatriation of those who have escaped from DPRK to China. We had a UK-China strategic dialogue last week and I raised the issue with my opposite number, as did my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary with his opposite number.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

2. What recent assessment he has made of the political situation in Ukraine.

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[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

10. What discussions he had during his recent visit to Burma.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

During my second visit to Burma in January, I met Aung San Suu Kyi, key Ministers, the Speaker, and the Commander-in-Chief. I discussed the need for constitutional reform and continued progress in the peace talks, and I raised in strong terms our concerns about human rights and about the situation in Rakhine state. I was also the first British Minister to visit Kachin state since Burma gained independence in 1948. Among other things, I met a group of Kachin world war two veterans, and paid tribute to their exceptional and brave service during the war.

[Valerie Vaz]

I thank the Minister for his response, and pay tribute to you, Mr Speaker: if you had not raised the issue of political prisoners with the General and Ministers during your recent trip, they would not have been released.

May I urge the Minister to press the Burmese Government? There is still concern about the census. Many people have been displaced, Médecins Sans Frontières has been suspended from Rakhine, and there needs to be constitutional reform by 2015 if there are to be free and fair elections.

[Mr Swire]

We approach this issue in a spirit of agreement, and, in accordance with the pledge that I had given the hon. Lady previously, I was able to raise the issue of political prisoners. I believe that there are still 30 whose cases are disputed.

As for the census, the hon. Lady will be aware that we are providing funds for it, and that it is the first census to take place for a very long time. There are issues surrounding it, but we believe that it is the right course. I believe that our engagement with Burma is on the right lines, but serious issues remain, not least the continuing problems in Rakhine.

[Sir Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD)]

I welcome what the Minister has said, and his engagement with Burma. Of course there are many challenges within the country, but does he not accept that the steps towards peace and democracy deserve our support and wholehearted engagement while the opportunity presents itself?

[Mr Swire]

Yes, I do. I have been able to discuss the situation with Baroness Amos, the United Nations under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs, in the last couple of weeks. I also discussed it yesterday in Geneva with António Guterres, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, and last night with Peter Maurer, the president of the International Committee of the Red Cross.

We are all extremely concerned about aspects of what is still going on in Burma, but we believe that, with our support across the board, the Burmese Government need encouragement on the path towards democracy. It was never going to be easy, but we must redouble our efforts to ensure that they deliver on the pledges that they have made.

[Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op)]

On Friday I met representatives of the Karen community who have been settled in Sheffield for some period now. They expressed great concern about Karen people in Burma, despite the peace talks. What is the Foreign Office doing to look at the situation of the many ethnic groups in Burma, not just the Rohingya Muslims, and to ensure there really is peace and that they are given support to integrate properly into society throughout Burma?

[Mr Swire]

The hon. Lady is right to raise that. We are extremely concerned about allegations of human rights violations and inter-communal violence. We have discussed this right across the board with Burma’s leaders and with Aung San Suu Kyi herself. The census is an important step. Whatever kind of Government then come about in Burma will, to my way of thinking, have to recognise some of the differences in the different parts of that country. Human rights are universal; we cannot pick and choose them, and everyone in that country is entitled to the same protection as everyone else, regardless of their ethnicity.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Knowledge is key in promoting democracy. Does my right hon. Friend therefore welcome the assistance this House is giving in setting up the library in the new Burmese Parliament?

[Mr Swire]

Yes I do, and you, Mr Speaker, and others at all levels in this place are trying to show best practice. In effect, we are trying to build a democratic country in a country that has not been a democracy. We are trying to embed democratic institutions and that requires a lot of work, and I pay tribute to those right across this House—officials, civil servants, Ministers, Opposition MPs. All of us have a part to play in this, given our long-standing close affinity and history with that country.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

11. What steps his Department is taking to provide protection for British civilian personnel currently working in Afghanistan.

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[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

T2. The coalition Government have set great store by encouraging stronger economic, cultural, religious and tourism links with India. With that in mind, there is constant lobbying for the reintroduction of direct flights from London to Gujarat, and especially Ahmedabad. What diplomatic efforts can Ministers launch to assist that campaign and get that much needed reform in place?

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

Of course the issue of direct flights between London and Ahmedabad is ultimately a commercial decision for airlines, but India hosts the largest UK diplomatic network in the world and we now have a British trade office there. I visited Gujarat and met the state’s Chief Minister Modi in March 2013, and we would welcome such direct flights because a huge section of the population travels to and does business with that thriving and vibrant part of India.

[Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)]

T5. What impact will our worsening relations with Russia have on our ability and that of our NATO allies to bring military equipment from Afghanistan back home via the overland route through Russia?

--- Later in debate ---

[Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con)]

T4. On Saturday, more than 100 people were injured and, tragically, 29 were killed as a result of the brutal mass stabbing in the Chinese city of Kunming. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, whatever the underlying issues, that horrific attack is no solution to the problem? Will he join me in expressing our condolences to the families of those affected?

[Mr Swire]

I strongly condemn the brutal terrorist attack at Kunming train station on 1 March. My thoughts and sympathies are with the families of the victims and those injured. Our consular team responded immediately to reports of the incident, speaking to local police and hospitals where the victims were taken for treatment. The Yunnan authorities have confirmed that no British nationals were caught up in the attack. We remain in touch with the local authorities and receive regular updates.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

T7. One of the main reasons given to this House in 2001 for our involvement in Afghanistan was that 90% of the heroin consumed in Britain came from Afghanistan. Thirteen years later, and after the tragic deaths of 447 of our brave soldiers, 90% of the heroin on the streets of Britain is still coming from Afghanistan, where the heroin crop is at a record level. Helmand is controlled by the Taliban. Can this be described as “mission accomplished”?

UN Commission of Inquiry (Democratic People's Republic of Korea)

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2014 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

On 17 February the United Nations Commission of Inquiry on Human Rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) published its final report. I would like to inform the House of the commission’s findings and to explain how the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is responding on behalf of the Government.

The Commission of Inquiry (COI) was established by a unanimous decision of the UN Human Rights Council in March 2013. Its mandate is to investigate independently the reports of systematic, widespread and grave violations of human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. These include violations of the right to life, the right to food, freedom of expression and freedom of movement; violations associated with prison camps, torture and inhuman treatment, and arbitrary detention; and enforced disappearances, including in the form of abductions of nationals of other states. The commission was also tasked to conduct its investigation with a view to ensuring that those responsible for human rights violations will be held accountable for their crimes. The UK has actively supported the work of the commission. In October 2013, we arranged a visit by the Commissioners Justice Kirby and Sonja Biserko to the UK, where they took evidence from North Korean refugees and from NGOs. The Commissioners also met me as FCO Minister of State, as well as other parliamentarians.

The commission has systematically collected detailed and damning accounts of appalling human rights violations in a way that has never been done previously. Their findings are horrifying. They include: torture, rape, executions and disappearances; using deliberate starvation as a means of control and punishment in detention facilities; a virtually absolute ban on ordinary citizens travelling abroad; and severe punishments for practising Christianity. While the COI acknowledges it is neither a judicial body nor a prosecutor, it believes its findings constitute reasonable grounds to establish that crimes against humanity have been committed. The commissioners have found that the DPRK is a state where human rights violations and crimes against humanity are ingrained into the institutional framework, pursuant to policies established at the highest level of the state. These crimes against humanity are ongoing and occur as part of a systematic and widespread attack of the state against anyone who is considered to pose a threat to the political system and leadership of the DPRK. The report finds that the DPRK’s isolationist mindset, aversion to engagement with the international community, all-encompassing indoctrination policies, and brutal security institutions protected by impunity are without parallel in the contemporary world.

On behalf of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office I have issued a statement welcoming the spotlight the commission has shone on these shocking human rights violations, which have gone on for far too long. I have urged the DPRK authorities to respond in detail to the contents of the report and to address the violations that it documents. UK officials have ensured the DPRK is aware of this statement.

We are now studying the recommendations of the report in detail. Although the commission has now concluded its work, the UK believes that this should be a beginning and not an end. The international community must respond to the report’s findings. On March 17 the commission will formally present its report to the UN Human Rights Council. As in previous years, the UK will be supporting a Human Rights Council resolution on the situation in the DPRK. We will work closely with the EU and other like-minded partners to ensure the Council sends a strong message to the DPRK that there can be no impunity for human rights violators.

Deep Sea Mining Bill

Lord Swire Excerpts

Friday 24th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sheryll Murray]

I thank the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), who, along with her colleagues the hon. Members for Brent North (Barry Gardiner), for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley), for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark), for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie) and for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz), and the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), tabled the amendment. I know that they all feel strongly about the need to protect the environment.

Coming, as I do, from what I consider to be the beautiful county in Cornwall, I of course sympathise strongly with those hon. Members. [Interruption.] The Minister indicates that I might come from the second most beautiful county, so perhaps I should have referred to the wider south-west. Furthermore, I come from a fishing background, so I know well the impact that pollution can have on fishermen and their livelihoods. I also know that in some of the areas that the Bill relates to it would be very difficult to fish for species such as orange roughy, as the hon. Member for Bristol East indicated.

Since I have been in charge of the Bill, I have learned a lot about deep sea mining. In particular, I have become very conscious of the importance of environmental conditions, which will have to be taken into account once deep sea mining becomes a reality. Of course, we are looking only at exploration. I understand that the UK has issued one licence for exploration, and another one is going through, but exploitation, as the hon. Lady mentioned, is a long way off. I know that the Government are very aware of environmental issues and am sure that they will keep to their commitment to ensure the application of the highest environmental standards. I can assure Members on both sides of the Chamber that I, too, will be very astute to ensure that happens.

Section 5 of the 1981 Act will not be amended by the Bill, except for technical changes to include references to Scottish Ministers. I believe that that is a real benefit to Scotland and the United Kingdom. Section 5 already includes provisions to ensure that protection of the marine environment is taken into account, and indeed is at the forefront of the Secretary of State’s mind, when licences are issued. While I sympathise with the hon. Lady’s concerns, I do not think the amendment is necessary. I understand also that the Minister will raise some technical objections to it and that the Government will not support it. In those circumstances, I hope that she will not press the amendment, so that the Bill can make progress.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

I was interested to hear some of the suggestions made this morning, as I have attended some, although not all, of the consideration of the Bill as it has made progress. The Government completely understand the sentiments that have led the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) and the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) to table the amendment —the hon. Gentleman is not in his place today, but he has been an assiduous attendee previously. The Government are committed to ensuring that the highest environmental standards are followed when exploration and exploitation of the deep sea bed take place. As the hon. Lady said, we are often—pardon the pun—in uncharted waters: this is new and exploratory, so environmental considerations need to be at the forefront of our proposals.

As hon. Members will know, the Government were approached 18 months ago by a major commercial company, Lockheed Martin, to sponsor its application to explore for minerals on the deep sea bed. When we received that approach, we took great pains to ensure that the environmental standards were the best that could be devised. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs was closely involved, as were two eminent scientists from outside the Government. When the application reached the council of the International Seabed Authority, the environmental aspects were generally praised by delegations. At the meeting of the council last year, when the first discussion of the possible shape of future regulations took place, the Government made it clear that they would expect those regulations to incorporate environmental provisions of the highest standards.

The British Government have already spoken and acted in a manner that will ensure that the highest environmental standards are adhered to, and I know that the need to protect the natural environment has universal support across the House. However, the Government cannot support the amendment, and I shall try to explain why.

Section 5 of the 1981 Act, to which the hon. Member for Bristol East and my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) referred, already includes clear provisions on the need to protect the marine environment. I know that on Second Reading the hon. Member for Brent North suggested that section 5 might not be sufficiently up to date, but we do not believe that to be the case. Section 5 is worded in a general manner and can accommodate changes to environmental perspectives.

[Kerry McCarthy]

The point that my hon. Friend the Member for Brent North and I have been making is that post 1981 it has been clearly established that the precautionary principle, agreed at Rio, should apply, and it is missing here. It is the reversal of the burden of proof that will be missing if we stick to the 1981 Act. It is important to reflect in the Bill the extent to which the precautionary principle has been accepted.

[Mr Swire]

The hon. Lady is right, but we also want companies to come here, and therefore we want to ensure that our environmental protections are the best and are in place. We are convinced they are and that section 5 of the 1981 Act is worded in a general manner that can accommodate changes to environmental perspectives. We do not believe that the amendment would add anything to the legislation.

On Second Reading, the hon. Member for Brent North referred to the precautionary approach in principle 15 of the Rio declaration. But the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea made it clear in its 2011 advisory opinion that sponsoring states should comply with the terms of principle 15, as well as best environmental practices. In exercising his functions to issue licences under the Act, the Secretary of State would have to comply with those provisions.

In addition, by replacing the whole of the current section 5, the amendment would lose two key elements. The requirement at the end of subsection (1) for the Secretary of State to consider any representations would be lost, as would the power in subsection (2) for the Secretary of State to include in licences provisions about protection of the marine environment. On those two technical grounds alone, the amendment cannot be supported.

More substantively, the amendment would require a full environmental impact assessment, even before exploration is carried out. However, as the hon. Member for Bristol East conceded, exploration of the deep sea bed involves minimal disturbance of the marine environment and no commercial company would be expected to undertake a full environmental assessment in those circumstances. The Bill should not be about preventing responsible companies from undertaking responsible exploration. On the contrary, the Government believe that we should actively encourage exploration of the deep sea bed. That is because the scientific information obtained through exploration will be an essential element in considering the environmental aspects of mining when it does take place. As the hon. Lady acknowledged in Committee, mining on the deep sea bed will eventually take place.

The amendment refers to a number of other international instruments. The Government are entirely conscious of the current developments in international environmental law, and have for example been at the forefront of international action on climate change—as is well recognised. It is clear therefore that international developments will be, and will have to be, taken into account when decisions on whether to issue licences are eventually made. But we should not limit ourselves in this way. There may be national developments, or developments in the European Union, that should also be taken into account. The current text of section 5 of the 1981 Act already allows for this and indeed, in this respect, is wider in its ambit than the amendment. For that reason, the Government do not support the amendment.

[Kerry McCarthy]

I remind the Minister that the amendment says

“including but not limited to”.

We were conscious when drafting the amendment that we did not want to limit it to just those treaties cited, so that other laws and treaties agreed over time would be included.

[Mr Swire]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for clarifying that point.

Of course the Government will continue to expect that the International Seabed Authority, in its decision-making process, should work towards meeting agreed international standards with respect to protection of the environment, and should utilise the latest information about the importance of marine areas. The Government recognise that the work being carried out under the convention on biological diversity to identify ecologically and biologically significant areas, along with the identification of vulnerable marine ecosystems, provide authoritative information that needs to be taken into account within the processes of the International Seabed Authority. Furthermore, let me assure hon. Members that the secretariat of the ISA is highly expert and, in particular, well aware of international developments in the environmental field. I think, therefore, that the House can have confidence that these developments will not be overlooked.

In conclusion, the Government sympathise with the reasons that have led the hon. Members for Bristol East and for Brent North to table the amendment. We have had an interesting debate, but as I have said, the Government cannot support it and are satisfied that section 5 of the 1981 Act is sufficient. In the light of this, I hope that the hon. Lady will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

[Kerry McCarthy]

I thank the Minister for his response, although he has not entirely set my mind at rest. I would have liked the Bill to build on the environmental protections set out in the 1981 Act, given that we have moved on considerably since then, and I would have liked the precautionary principle firmly established in the Bill, because that is where we are at now with environmental protection internationally, but I do not intend to press the amendment. With respect to the Minister, however, he is the third Minister to deal with the Bill—there was one Minister on Second Reading, one in Committee and now another on Report and Third Reading—and there will be yet another Minister in the Lords. Furthermore, I am the second Labour spokesperson to deal with it. I hope in the Lords, therefore, there will be an opportunity for detailed scrutiny to ensure that we tie things together and take the Bill forward properly.

[Mr Swire]

The hon. Lady ought to be a little more positive. The result will be a widespread understanding of the Bill virtually across the whole of Government.

[Kerry McCarthy]

Certainly, we have moved on from the stage when probably not a single Member knew what was meant when we referred to hydrothermal vents, polymetallic nodules, a cobalt-rich crust or any of the other things we have been discussing, so we have been significantly enlightened. Nevertheless, I hope that the Lords will further scrutinise the environmental provisions and perhaps pull some of this together and table some amendments. As I have said, however, I do not intend to press the amendment to a vote. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Third Reading

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Swire]

I wish to put on record my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray)—and not, as she was erroneously called, the hon. Member for North East Cornwall. I think North Cornwall currently belongs to our coalition partners, but I am sure that at the next general election she, like all of us in the south-west, will be doing everything to ensure that if she does not actually personally occupy that part of Cornwall, there will be a member of the same party who does. It is worth putting on the record that it is the only seat in Cornwall—[Interruption.] There is of course St Ives, which is extremely vulnerable to the Conservative surge.

[Sheryll Murray]

My right hon. Friend will wish to know that, currently, our coalition partners hold St Ives, St Austell and Newquay, and North Cornwall. The Conservatives currently hold—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. The hon. Lady will resume her seat. Before the Minister continues, let me say that that has nothing to do with the Third Reading of this Bill. I know that it is Friday and that the right hon. Gentleman and the hon. Lady are looking forward to getting back to Cornwall, so if we could concentrate just on the Bill I would be a very happy Deputy Speaker.

[Mr Swire]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I apologise. I share your agitation and excitement. Mine was only the excitement about May 2015 and what might happen thereafter. I will certainly not be tempted further down that exciting route.

I also thank other right hon. and hon. Members who have served their time on this Bill. The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) referred to the fact that it has been handled by a number of different Ministers throughout its passage. That is a factor of life here sometimes, but, as I said to her, it does mean that there will be a wide understanding of the legislation. As it is new and quite complicated, the more people who understand what it is about—the new technology and the new exploration way below the sea—the better.

It is of course entirely appropriate, as hon. Members have said, that it should be a Back Bencher from a constituency in Cornwall, which is the second most beautiful part of England after Devon, who has brought the Bill to the House. Cornwall not only has been involved in mining for generations—indeed, from before Roman times—but is of course a great maritime county. My hon. Friend has always been a strong advocate of her native county. Certainly, the fishing industry and her constituents are represented extremely well by her. I do not know anyone here who has a greater understanding of the marine environment, from which she has derived both pleasure and tragedy.

I am pleased that my hon. Friend has taken the Bill forward with such aplomb. She has the distinction, as we have heard, of having been in charge of private Member’s Bills in two consecutive Sessions, which is certainly an unusual achievement. As to her revealing the secret of how she was balloted for two Bills, she gave the figure “336”, but said that she did not want people to know that it was her secret number. I remind her gently that recordings of this place are, as we speak, being broadcast to the four corners of the world. Who knows, one day they might be broadcast to the sea bed as well, so Captain Nemo can watch them. Quite a lot of people will remember 336 now and, with her indulgence, I shall be tempted to use some of those numbers when I next fill in my national lottery form as they have brought her such luck in the past.

Why is deep sea mining such a prominent issue just now? One or two comments have been made to the effect that the Bill is in some way premature and that the industry is in its infancy, and some have asked why we are doing this now. It is worth recalling that in the 1980s there was a great deal of interest in deep sea mining, although I must confess that I was not aware of that myself. There were expectations then of a major boom in deep sea mining and pessimism in many quarters that an internationally agreed regime could not be achieved. It was against that background that the Deep Sea Mining (Temporary Provisions) Act 1981 was passed.

The addition of the words “Temporary Provisions” to that Act now seems ironic, as here we are 33 years later and the Act is still in force. That, presumably, gives a new definition to the word “temporary”. Let us hope that the same use of the word does not apply when we talk about other parties “temporarily” holding on to seats that should be ours in the south-west—we do not envisage that going on for 33 years, Madam Deputy Speaker. In recognition of the fact that deep sea mining is here to stay, we will remove those words from the short title. I imagine that that is probably the most uncontentious thing I could say.

Going back to the 1980s—and many of us would like to—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. With respect, we do not need to go back to the 1980s. We are on the Third Reading of a Bill that apparently has support in the House and the debate is about the provisions of the Bill. We have moved beyond needing context from the 1980s. There are a lot of Bills still to come this morning, so I would be grateful if the Minister referred to this Bill and its provisions.

[Mr Swire]

I am making as much haste as I possibly can, Madam Deputy Speaker, given the complexities of some parts of the Bill. I was alluding back to the ’80s because of the commercial side of the issue. The commercial companies that showed an interest in deep sea mining at that time ceased to do so and although the idea lived on, it did not seem likely to become a reality any time soon.

[Mr Nuttall]

Does the Minister know why, over the intervening three decades, cross-party agreement has arisen on these matters? If we look back to the debates on the 1981 Act, we can see that it was pretty contentious, with Divisions on Second and Third Readings.

[Mr Swire]

I think that is for two reasons. First, such ideas are becoming a reality, whereas in the 1980s they were a distant prospect, and, secondly, our understanding of the management of the environment, not least the marine environment, has improved in leaps and bounds. Marine conservation zones and ecological balancing mean that we are way ahead of where we were then. No doubt you would rightly stop me going down memory lane to the 1980s, Madam Deputy Speaker, so I shall not continue along that line, but I hope that I have answered my hon. Friend’s questions as best I can.

The other part of the prediction also turned out to be incorrect. We were able to achieve an internationally agreed regime for deep sea mining. However, the road to achieving that was not straightforward. When the United Nations convention on the law of the sea was first adopted, the United Kingdom, in common with other industrialised countries, could not accept the provisions on deep sea mining. Those were included in part XI of the convention and were not attractive to commercial companies. The industrialised countries stood aloof from the convention, even though—apart from part XI—the provisions were satisfactory. Indeed, they were of great advantage to industrialised countries.

As the date for the convention’s coming into force grew closer, the developing countries appreciated that a convention with no participation from industrialised countries would not be to their advantage. Negotiations began to revise part XI or, in the diplomatic speak of the time, to set out how it would be implemented. I am pleased to note that United Kingdom representatives played a prominent role in those negotiations. The result was the so-called part XI agreement, which met the concerns of the industrialised countries and paved the way for the United Kingdom and other industrialised countries to ratify the convention.

Let me say now that the British Government consider that the convention, read with the part XI agreement, represents an excellent platform for the future development of deep sea mining. There is a need to ensure that the commercial terms encourage commercial companies, which are rightly hard-headed about the process, to invest the large sums necessary to make deep sea mining a reality. My hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) elegantly made the point, in a well-balanced argument, that there is a balance to be struck. We want to encourage deep sea mining and ensure that companies come here to register for the licences, but we do not want to give them false expectations; they can spend huge amounts of money before they mine anything. That is one reason why we were unable to accept the amendment.

Ultimately, the deep sea is, as the convention says and as the hon. Member for Bristol East said, the common heritage of mankind; that is the phrase that has been universally used. It is a ringing phrase, which means a great deal to many people around the world, particularly those who are nervous about the concept of touching the sea bed. Ultimately, the benefits of deep sea mining should be shared with all members of the international community. That is recognised by the convention, and we are happy to endorse it.

The hon. Lady and my hon. Friend talked about profits and which country should benefit from any money made, which is perhaps slightly putting the cart before the horse. Apart from the licence fees, the issue of what direct benefits will accrue to sponsoring states is one of the many that will need to be considered during the development of the exploitation regulations. However, the indirect benefits are likely to be substantial. Deep sea mining is a significant opportunity for UK industry, especially in the light of the technological advances made during the development of the oil and gas industry in the North sea. We look forward to UK industry making full use of that opportunity.

As for the International Seabed Authority, its council will have to produce in due course rules about the

“equitable sharing of financial and other economic benefits deriving from activities in the Area”,

taking into particular consideration the interests and needs of the developing states. In other words, the ultimate intention, although we are probably a long way away from this, is that the economic benefits of deep sea mining should, rightly, be shared with developing countries. Talk of the precise nature of how the money will be held and disbursed, and of where sovereign wealth funds should be located and who should be involved with them, is somewhat premature.

Nevertheless, a balance is needed between the requirements of the commercial companies and those of the beneficiaries in the international community as a whole. It would be counter-productive to fix payments to the international community at a level that would deter the commercial companies. In other words, we must ensure that the international community secures a reasonable rate of return without putting off the commercial companies without which there would be no mining at all—ergo no revenue, no sovereign wealth fund and no ability to share any profits with developing countries because, by definition, there would be no profits to share.

I am perhaps getting a little ahead of myself because, at present, there is no mining on the deep sea bed—that is a statement of fact. There have been only applications to explore for minerals. So far the International Seabed Authority has approved 19 such applications. Four more were held over from its 2013 session, and at least three new applications will be considered during the coming year.

The pace of applications has increased markedly in the last few years, as we might expect. There may well be many reasons why, but there is no doubt that there are two in particular: first, the development of technology, much of it by British companies that have been working in the North sea for many years, as their unrivalled expertise in deep sea drilling has a knock-on effect for their understanding of deep sea mining; and, secondly, the exponential economic growth in certain countries, which I need not name, that has fuelled a significant increase in their demand for metals and precious minerals. It follows that deep sea mining for mineral deposits on the sea bed is close to becoming technically and economically viable. It is also a truism that, with an increasing world population and finite resources, we will need to look to the oceans to provide additional sources of support for our growing needs and demands. We need to be acutely aware of changes in our ability to produce energy and extract minerals. I refer the House to the need for a serious look, from an environmental perspective, at the exploitation of shale gas, which has had hugely beneficial effects, especially regarding the cost of energy, in countries such as the United States that are well ahead of us on that practice.

Perhaps I should explain to the House how the system set out in the United Nations convention on the law of the sea works. Any application to explore for mineral resources on the deep sea bed requires sponsorship by a state party, which must be able to exercise sufficient jurisdiction over the company it is sponsoring. It is worth saying that an advisory opinion in 2011 by the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea helpfully elucidated the duties cast on a sponsoring state by the convention, which include a requirement to adopt a precautionary approach to environmental issues.

Once a company has secured the sponsorship of a state, its application goes to the International Seabed Authority. I am pleased to note that the authority’s headquarters are in Kingston in Jamaica, a fellow Commonwealth country. I am the Minister for the Commonwealth, so I have a further excuse to go and inspect the headquarters personally—if the cold weather continues, I shall be going sooner rather than later.

The application will then be considered by the legal and technical commission of the International Seabed Authority, which is composed of experts from across the world and gives technical advice to the ISA’s council. Once approved by the commission, the application is forwarded to the council, which is composed of a number of member states that have a particular interest in deep sea mining. It is then for the council to approve the application.

The final step is that the contractor and the International Seabed Authority enter into a contract that has a number of standard provisions, including on the reports that the contractor must make to the authority. Effective regulation of the contractor will be secured through a combination of those provisions and the domestic law of the state sponsoring the application. The authority is at present concerned only with the exploration of the deep sea bed.

[Mr Nuttall]

The Minister may be aware that the original convention on the law of the sea established a body called the Enterprise, the purpose of which was to serve as the authority’s mining operator. As far as I am aware, no steps are being taken to bring the Enterprise into operation. Is he aware of any moves in that direction? Will the ISA take control of this itself?

[Mr Swire]

I am not aware of any such rules, but I commit to writing to my hon. Friend once I have clarified that point. I am pleased that the ISA’s secretariat is thinking about the regulations that will be necessary once exploitation begins. The United Kingdom delegation at the authority’s most recent session made clear the importance that we attach to the development of those regulations, which will be an important step for the authority and one in which the United Kingdom is determined to play its full part. There are important environmental issues to be resolved, but there is also a financial issue relating to the amount of any payment to the ISA, to which I have already alluded.

What of British involvement in deep sea mining, which is really what the Bill is about? I am pleased to say that the United Kingdom has now sponsored two applications. The first was approved by the ISA’s council in 2012, and consequently a British company will cover an area of sea bed twice the size of Wales and 4,000 metres deep. Disappointingly, the legal and technical commission did not have time to consider the second application at its sessions last year, but we hope it will approve the application at its session beginning in February, and that the council will approve the application when it meets in July.

Deep sea mining is a very exciting and pioneering industry, and the Government are pleased that the United Kingdom is at the forefront of its development. Last year, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister spoke at an event in London to celebrate the signing of the contract between the United Kingdom’s sponsored contractor, UK Seabed Resources Ltd, and the ISA. Our colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills organised an industry day at which more than 80 British companies participated. British companies have developed expertise and technology through their activities in the North sea, much of which is transferable to deep sea mining. We hope that significant benefits to the British economy will be forthcoming over the next 30 years. We have heard figures of anything up to £40 billion bandied around this morning. In the Government’s view, it is essential that the United Kingdom does not ignore these potential benefits. As I have said—it is also the assessment of the International Seabed Authority—we are at the threshold of a new era of deep sea mining. This new frontier presents a valuable opportunity to contribute to the prosperity of the British people, of British companies, and of the United Kingdom as a whole.

Polymetallic nodules, as I am sure we are all now fully aware, contain a higher concentration of valuable metals—up to 28% more, or 10 times the proportion usually found on land. Many of the metals contained in these sea bed deposits are considered to be valuable “technology metals”, which are increasingly important in high-technology industries that benefit us all, including electronics, clean technologies such as hybrid cars and wind turbines, and the construction and aerospace industries. The strategic importance of this source of minerals and metals should not be underestimated, not least as they contain trace metals such as rare earth elements used in electronics, where it is important that land-based sources should face competition from potential sources on the deep sea bed. Such an amount of previously untapped wealth can create vital jobs for the British economy, not only in deep sea mining but in the supply chain supporting the industry, such as the engineers developing machines to harvest polymetallic nodules in an environmentally sensitive way.

As my right hon. Friend the Minister for Universities and Science has pointed out, this new industry plays to the UK’s strengths as a world leader in maritime engineering and innovation—which, incidentally, is of increasing importance to us in the south-west, as my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall will be well aware. As I mentioned, last year my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister attended and spoke at an event to welcome the award of an exploration licence to British company UK Seabed Resources, secured with the support of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. There can be no greater demonstration of the Government’s commitment to this rapidly developing industry.

Turning to the Bill, I would first like to emphasise—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. The right hon. Gentleman has been speaking for some considerable time now. We have covered everything. We have covered the international authority, prime ministerial speeches and agendas for Government Departments. I would now like him to focus specifically, and briefly, on his comments with regard to the Bill.

[Mr Swire]

Of course, Madam Deputy Speaker. If I may, I will just say why the Bill was needed, because there was some discussion as to whether it was appropriate to have it now or whether it was premature.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. With respect, the right hon. Gentleman covered that right at the beginning of his speech when he outlined the originating of the 1981 Act, the fact that it was temporary, the fact that it did not need to be temporary now, and the increased interest in deep sea mining. I think we have covered why it is important; we have covered the money and the jobs. The Minister just needs to finish off on the Bill.

[Mr Swire]

Indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. In that case, I will abbreviate my concluding remarks to address a specific point that was raised about Scotland, on which I owe the House an answer.

I am pleased that we were able to reach agreement with the Scottish Government to extend the Bill to Scotland. Amendments to that effect were moved in Committee by my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall, supported by the Committee. This was a very technical change that took some time to sort out, but we got there. As with other British companies, Scottish companies are well placed to take advantage of the opportunities presented by the development of deep sea mining. Many of them have been active in the North sea and can therefore adapt their expertise and the technologies they have developed into the new and exciting world of deep sea mining.

We have enjoyed—at least, I have enjoyed—an informed and productive debate that has demonstrated a real understanding of the economic and strategic importance of this Bill for the United Kingdom, balanced with the need to ensure safeguards for the environment. One of the important issues we have rightly discussed is the environment of the deep sea and the potential impact of mining on the species living on the sea bed. All of us—Governments, parliamentarians and private companies alike—must be conscious of our shared responsibility for the stewardship of the deep sea bed.

I hope I have answered the majority of points raised. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has shown how this issue is an example of the UK leading the way—both in legislation for the awarding of licences and in the support we will give—in an exciting new industry. The industry is expected to be worth up to £40 billion to the British economy over the next 30 years. The United Kingdom is open for business, competing in the global race.

This Bill has been improved by amendments and has been met with general approval from Members throughout the House. I am confident that when future generations look back at what we have done, they will see that we have done everything we can to strike the right balance between protecting the environment and exploiting this valuable resource in support of our country’s prosperity.

I thank all those who have taken an interest in and contributed to the excellent discussions as the Bill has progressed. In particular, I reiterate my warmest congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall on introducing the Bill. I hope the House will join me in supporting the Bill’s Third Reading and wishing it a speedy and successful passage through the other place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Swire Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

2. What recent assessment he has made of the UK’s relations with Pakistan; and if he will make a statement.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

Our relations with Pakistan remain strong, and we pay tribute to the people of Pakistan in their struggle against recent terrorist violence. Last June, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was the first foreign Head of Government to visit Pakistan after its new Government took office.

[Mr Bellingham]

Does the Minister agree that Pakistan’s long-term economic future depends not on more aid, but on more trade and, especially, on improved European Union market access? Does he also agree that Pakistan’s recent joining of the generalised system of preferences plus—GSP plus—is excellent news, as it will open up duty-free access to much of the EU market? However, is he confident that Pakistan will sign up to the international conventions on labour and on good governance?

[Mr Swire]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. Pakistan’s joining the GSP will drive better governance, as it grants vulnerable countries duty-free access to the EU on two thirds of tariff lines if they implement 27 international conventions on human rights, labour standards, sustainable development and good governance. That is good news for Pakistan and for the EU. Pakistan stands to gain an estimated $500 million and 1 million new jobs from this agreement. It is a sign of a deeper and more effective relationship that benefits both our two countries, given that the UK was at the lead on it.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

23. Many of us are deeply fearful about the chasm between the official Government position in Pakistan on religious freedom for Christians, Hindus and other religious minorities, and the reality on the ground. Has the Minister had any discussions with the Pakistani Government on the vexed and vexatious blasphemy laws?

[Mr Swire]

As the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Hugh Robertson) just said, we raise issues of religious tolerance, particularly in respect of Christian minorities, wherever we go. Baroness Warsi repeatedly raised the issue of religious freedom and minority protections at the highest level during her visit to Pakistan in October 2013, and she referred to the issue in an open letter on 25 December. It is worth saying that she had a frank and open discussion with the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Nawaz Sharif, in the margins of the United Nations General Assembly in New York in September.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

The principal area of concern for many of my constituents of Pakistani origin is the problem of the disputed area of Kashmir. Will my right hon. Friend explain to the House what the latest position is on encouraging both Pakistan and India to work together to give the people of that disputed region the right to decide their future for themselves?

[Mr Swire]

I could with your indulgence, Mr Speaker, as I am coming to that question later on this morning. We are heartened by greater communication between India and Pakistan. The lines of communication are now better, but the problems in that region can be solved only by the two Governments of Pakistan and India and the people of Kashmir themselves.

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

May I draw the right hon. Gentleman’s attention to the work in Stoke-on-Trent of the Andrhal Welfare Trust, which is licensed in Pakistan and in the UK? It does vital work to ship out educational material and equipment, and information and communications technology equipment. Shipments are being detained for a lengthy time in Karachi, so, in the interests of education, will he examine how the process can be speeded up?

[Mr Swire]

I pay tribute to that trust; anything that further improves education in Pakistan is manifestly a good thing from the UK perspective. If the hon. Lady would like to draw any problems with customs to my attention, I will ensure that officials look into them.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

3. What recent progress has been made on securing a comprehensive agreement with Iran on its nuclear programme.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

9. What recent reports he has received on human rights violations in the Jammu and Kashmir region.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

We are aware of allegations of human rights abuses on both sides of the line of control. We are clear that allegations of human rights abuses require proper investigation, and we regularly raise concerns through our missions in Islamabad and Delhi, as appropriate.

[Gavin Shuker]

The number of civilian deaths attributed to the Indian forces is now greater than the number attributed to terrorist attacks in the region. Will the Minister assure me that these issues are being raised not only in our official discussions but at ministerial level, given the number of delegations and trips to India in recent years?

[Mr Swire]

Indeed. The hon. Gentleman will know that in the past few years India and Pakistan have made progress on trade, with both countries agreeing to double bilateral trade by 2014. India has lifted a ban on direct investment from Pakistan, and both sides have implemented a new visa regime. Ultimately, we want to encourage progress between India and Pakistan. Our position, as is well known, is to allow both sides to decide the pace of dialogue, as any direct involvement or international intervention would not be welcomed—by India, certainly.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware of the petition signed by thousands of my constituents —and, I believe, people in other constituencies —asking for a debate about human rights in Jammu and Kashmir, and can he assist by giving us such a debate in Government time?

[Mr Swire]

I was not aware of the petition to which the hon. Lady alludes, but her comments will certainly have been noted, not least by the Chair.

[Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab)]

10. What recent discussions he has had with his Afghan counterpart on security arrangements after 2014; and if he will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Lavery]

On 4 January, Francisco Toloza, another leading member of the Patriotic March political movement in Colombia, was arrested and charged with the usual accusation of rebellion. Given that 25 of that group’s leading members were murdered last year alone, do the Government still insist that Colombia is a democratic country that allows opposition political participation?

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

The answer is yes, we do. Human rights continue to be an important part of our relationship with Colombia. They were discussed with President Santos during his visit to the UK from 6 June last year. We have never hidden our concerns about human rights in that country. Equally, we are supportive of the mass improvement in the general well-being of Colombians under the president and his negotiations with the FARC guerrillas. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will have an opportunity to raise those matters when he visits Colombia shortly.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

T4. Holocaust memorial day takes place next Monday. Will the Secretary of State join me in commending the role that British veterans played in defeating the Nazis in the second world war, and in liberating the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp almost 70 years ago?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

T5. Further to the case raised by the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) on Colombia, will the Minister address the case of Huber Ballesteros, who will face trial in a number of weeks, also on a contrived charge of rebellion? Will he address these human rights issues in a way that does not just send a signal to the Santos regime that they somehow fall within a margin of tolerable excess in the context of a peace process?

[Mr Swire]

That is not the case. We are, of course, aware of the detention of Mr Ballesteros on 25 August. Our ambassador to Colombia wrote to the Colombian prosecutor general on 28 August to highlight our interest in the case and to request information on the charges. Staff at our embassy in Bogota are seeking permission to visit Mr Ballesteros in prison. It is simply not the case that we turn to one side and avert our gaze to what we regard as human rights violations in Colombia.

[Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend will be alarmed, as I was, at the release of documents last week on the attack at the Golden Temple in 1984. The Prime Minister made a swift response in terms of the Cabinet Secretary. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on the timeline for the inquiry and for a possible statement to this House?

--- Later in debate ---

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

T8. A number of individuals and charities in my constituency have contacted me about the difficulties they have encountered in funding legitimate humanitarian action in the disputed region of Kashmir. Will the Secretary of State allow a Minister to meet me briefly to discuss these concerns?

[Mr Swire]

Either I or my noble Friend Baroness Warsi, who has responsibility for these matters, will, I am sure, be happy to meet the hon. Gentleman.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

Will the Foreign Secretary update the House on what is happening to his constituent, my constituent and others arrested from a vessel off Tamil Nadu? Can anything more be done to expedite their release? Given that they were only obeying orders, should it not be the captain who faces the charges, and should these men not be freed?

--- Later in debate ---

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

May I ask the Minister on his next visit to Burma to raise the letter that Mr Speaker has written to Minister Soe Thein with a list of political prisoners and to ask for their unconditional release?

[Mr Swire]

I am travelling to Burma very shortly. I raised some individual cases with some success when I was last there, last year. I should be delighted to take the list to which the hon. Lady refers and raise it with the authorities when I meet them in the coming days.

[Mr Speaker]

I genuinely apologise to colleagues whom I was not able to call, but we did proceed relatively slowly today, which did not greatly assist matters. However, this is a box-office occasion and I shall try to bear in mind those who were not able to contribute today for subsequent occasions.

Bilateral Relations: Kurdistan Region of Iraq

Lord Swire Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Colne Valley (Jason McCartney) on securing this debate. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Hugh Robertson), would have been delighted to respond, but he is travelling on ministerial duties. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) referred to me as the new Minister and this was compounded by the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) doing so. I have been Minister of State in the Foreign Office since September 2012, but this part of the world is not my responsibility particularly, which is why there may have been some confusion. It is none the less my pleasure to respond on the Government’s behalf.

The knowledge and insight with which hon. Members have spoken today says much about the strength of our relations with Iraqi Kurdistan, the reasons for which and the significant advantages it brings I will come on to discuss. I pay tribute to hon. and right hon. Members from all parties—and in both Houses—for their work over many years to build relations with the Kurdistan region, not least to the great efforts made by the all-party group.

The hon. Member for Wrexham said that it was up to hon. Members to familiarise themselves with the region. I have not had the advantage of travelling to the region, but having done extensive research for today’s debate, including reading the previous, extraordinarily distinguished debate in the House, I should love to go there and see it for myself—and perhaps even have a similar haircut to the hon. Member for Wrexham, not that the creator of his hairstyle will receive an MBE any time soon. You never know.

APG members have observed great changes—because there have been great changes—in Iraqi Kurdistan, including in its relationship with the UK, and they have made a significant contribution to realising them, which I acknowledge and for which I thank them. It does our Parliament great credit and their efforts do not go unrecognised. We welcome the group’s latest report, which is launched today.

The links between Britain and Iraqi Kurdistan are historic and deep, as we have heard. The recent strength of those links is founded in no small measure on our country’s role in establishing the no-fly zone in 1991, which helped to protect the population from Saddam’s murderous threat. The region is now a stable and prosperous area within a volatile region. I will return to that point, but first I shall say a little more about opportunities to strengthen our relations further, echoing many comments made hon. and right hon. Members.

The people of Iraqi Kurdistan and its Regional Government are ambitious, and opportunities in the region are, as we have heard, striking. Its economy continues to grow impressively. More companies from Britain than from any other EU country are registered in the region and we hope more will follow. British companies are helping to realise its potential in the energy sector. In recent months, two major trade missions have visited the region, led by my noble Friend Lord Marland and by Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne respectively.

We recently welcomed the first inward investment mission from the region to London and another will follow this month. As ever, these links benefit from the contribution of the Kurdish community resident in the UK, which now numbers many thousands, and the Kurdistan Regional Government representation here in London.

We have only just begun to realise the commercial potential for the UK and the Kurdistan region, and we cannot take success for granted. That is why we have increased staffing at our consulate general in Erbil and will move to a new permanent building, which, I am glad to report to my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi), we plan to open in the second half of 2015.

We continue to look for new opportunities in the region. UK Trade and Investment worked with the London office of the Kurdistan Regional Government to host a conference in July 2013 dedicated to tourism in the region. We continue to build strong links in higher education. On her recent trip, Baroness Nicholson took representatives from a range of UK universities to that part of the world.

Some 1,600 postgraduate students came to the UK last year, supported by the Kurdistan Regional Government. As Minister responsible for the Chevening scholarship programme, I am delighted that one of its scholars, Minister Falah Mustafa, is now the head of the Kurdistan Regional Government’s Department of Foreign Relations and recently met my right hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent.

Recognising the relative safety and security of this region, our travel advice makes a distinction from the rest of Iraq. We are one of the few countries that do not advise against travel to the Kurdistan region. We have also taken steps to make it easier to obtain a UK visa. During his visit in September last year, my noble Friend Lord Marland opened a visa application centre in Erbil, so that applicants no longer have to travel to Baghdad or outside Iraq to submit their applications, although I accept that it is still relatively expensive to submit applications.

Hon. Members spoke about direct flights. I have ever more calls for direct flights around the world, particularly with my responsibilities in Latin and central America; everybody wants direct flights to the UK, and the Kurdistan region is no exception. We share the ambition to see direct flights between London and Erbil and other destinations in Iraq. That requires work to satisfy our security assessments, but I am pleased to say that officials from the Department for Transport visited Erbil in November and we are making good progress with the authorities. It is our hope that Erbil airport, designed by a British architect, will welcome British carriers in the near future.

As I have noted, the security situation in Iraqi Kurdistan compares favourably with much of Iraq and the wider region, but it is not immune from threats. We recognise the ongoing bravery of the security forces who counter the threats of terrorism, and pay tribute to those who lost their life in September in that deplorable act of terrorism in Erbil—thankfully, the first such atrocity for several years. The hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) rightly spoke about the complex situation in the region regarding refugees.

[Meg Munn]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Swire]

If the hon. Lady will allow me, I am about to address the points that she made.

The hon. Lady asked what the British Government were doing for the refugees. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow also commented on that. As a result of the horrors in Syria, Syrian refugees continue to flee across the border. I pay tribute to the Kurdish and federal Iraqi authorities, and to the people of the region, for their support to the many people whose lives have been threatened and who have been left displaced and dispossessed. The Department for International Development has given £14.2 million to international efforts supporting Syrian refugees in the Kurdistan region. The UK will make a major contribution to the new UN appeal for Syria at the pledging conference being held today in Kuwait, and we urge other countries to be equally generous. We also welcome the efforts of the leadership of the Kurdistan Regional Government to encourage Syrian Kurdish groups to agree on participation in Geneva II.

The hon. Member for Wrexham asked specifically about allowing in refugees from that part of the world. He will know that there has been a lively debate about asylum for Syrian refugees, and I will not change the established Government position. I remind him of our major commitment to alleviating suffering in that part of the world. The UK is right at the forefront of this. Following the pledging conference in Kuwait, I am sure that we will maintain that position.

[Meg Munn]

I want to ask about security, because the Minister moved on a little bit too quickly, hence my agitation at that point. When we visited in November, the Interior Minister responsible for security spoke to us about his difficulty in getting support for help and advice about non-lethal security measures. I should like to press the Minister, if not now then perhaps later, to say what more we could do to help with a difficult security situation and to help a Government who are working hard to keep the region safe and who are successful for most of the time.

[Mr Swire]

I hear what the hon. Lady says, and she and other hon. Members will be aware that sales of non-lethal equipment may be subject to the UK’s export licensing controls. Applications for export licences are considered on a case-by-case basis against the criteria, taking into account the circumstances at the time.

Following on from what the hon. Lady says, Iraqi Kurds have a vital role in the stability of Iraq, where terrorist violence claimed nearly 9,000 lives in 2013. We are extremely concerned about the current violence in Anbar province in western Iraq. This Government will stand alongside the Iraqi Government in combating that threat and other terrorist threats across the region. We have made it clear that addressing the threat of terrorism requires support from the local community and an inclusive political process for all Iraqis. We urge Iraqi Kurds to play a full part in Iraq’s democratic future, ensuring that federal elections take place in April on time, fairly and freely. We also hope that overdue provincial elections for the Kurdish region will be held at that time.

We welcome the efforts in 2013 to improve relations between Erbil and Baghdad, including reciprocal visits, which were asked for by a number of hon. Members, by President Barzani and Prime Minister Maliki. We urge both sides to find agreement on how to administer the country’s energy resources and on how to share oil export revenues, and to finalise the 2014 federal budget. Resolving those issues is vital to unlocking much needed investment throughout Iraq. We also hope that a new Kurdistan Regional Government will continue to make progress on human rights in the region. The recent murder of a journalist was a brutal reminder that journalists continue to be targeted, and we call on authorities to bring those responsible to justice.

The hon. Member for Cheltenham raised the murder of Kawa Germyani, about which we have expressed serious concern. He was the editor-in-chief of Rayal magazine and a correspondent for the Sulaymaniyah-based Awena newspaper. He was assassinated outside his home in Kalar on 5 December, which is a brutal reminder that journalists in the region continue to be targeted for reasons related to their work. It is important that the KRG honour their commitment to investigate the attack and to bring those responsible to justice.

The people of the region know only too well the horror of violence and abuse, having suffered at the hands of Saddam Hussein. Members have spoken eloquently today and in the past about the Anfal campaign against Iraq’s Kurds. I am pleased to hear that my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) has accepted the vice-chairmanship of the all-party group, and our debate on the subject in February 2013 is an example of the House at its best. As he noted on that occasion, the Government have a long-standing position of following a legal process to ascertain whether such atrocities should be designated as an act of genocide, but I reiterate our sympathy for the victims of the Anfal and confirm that we will work with the Kurdistan Regional Government and representatives here on how we can mark Anfal day on 14 April in an appropriate way.

[Robert Halfon]

Will my right hon. Friend do what he can to ensure that the British Government do everything that they can to bring to justice the perpetrators of the genocide if they are living in Europe? Will he do the same for the companies that supplied the chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein? Fortunately, the companies are not British; they are from other parts of Europe.

[Mr Swire]

Indeed, we should and will do everything we can to bring to justice perpetrators of any atrocities anywhere in the world, and the companies that have been supplying them illegally. That is what we do as a Government, and we will certainly continue to do so. Reflecting on those past tragedies only emphasises the progress made by Iraqi Kurdistan. We urge Iraqi Kurds to use the example of their history and progress to become a voice of moderation in Iraq and to show what they have done to address discrimination, to protect minorities and to rejuvenate their economy.

In the closing moments I will address the other questions that have been raised. My hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon is a fantastic example of someone from that part of the world. He said that he is the first British Member of Parliament of Kurd ancestry, which is a remarkable achievement. There is a lot more he can do, and I would not be surprised if there were some wonderful opportunities for Erbil in Stratford-on-Avon. If we can export “War Horse,” the Michael Morpurgo play, to China, I am sure he can probably export “Wolf Hall” to Erbil. “Wolf Hall” is a play that runs for eight hours and is on in Stratford-on-Avon as we speak, and I know that my hon. Friend is experiencing considerable difficulty in obtaining tickets.

The hon. Members for Cheltenham and for Wrexham talked about women’s rights, particularly in relation to FGM. Since I have been in the House we have not done enough about FGM, which is one of the most abhorrent, despicable things to happen to women, and the thought that it still continues in the UK is absolutely unacceptable.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

The Minister is addressing an important topic. Does he agree that we need to send out a clear message not just in the region but across the developing world that the practice of female genital mutilation is totally and utterly unacceptable to try to move those societies away from such a barbaric practice?

[Mr Swire]

Yes, I absolutely do. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the Foreign Secretary’s wider initiative to prevent sexual violence in conflict, particularly against women. FGM is different, and there is a big initiative in the House, not before time. We have continued to fund various projects run by the Westminster Foundation for Democracy to increase participation by female parliamentarians in the Kurdistan Parliament. We continue to support efforts to improve the position of women in Iraqi society, and we are working closely with the UN, the EU and other international partners, but he is right. I find the practice of FGM absolutely abhorrent wherever it is perpetrated. It seems to me to be an ultimate act of violence against very young women and girls who have no choice, and we should continue to be strong wherever in the world we find the practice.

I do not run the Foreign Secretary’s diary, but I am certain that he will have noted the point on high-level visits. The then Minister with responsibility for the middle east, my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire, visited Erbil in February 2013, and Lord Marland has also visited. Various hon. Members called for more ministerial visits and trade missions—yes, absolutely. I would point out that Ministers under this Government are travelling much more than ever before, and that part of the world should certainly be on their agenda. I welcome the idea that we should invite President Barzani to the UK, and we will factor that in. We heard from the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) about President Barzani’s visit to Northern Ireland at the invitation of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister in February 2013 and the signing of the memorandum of understanding, which was a very successful trip.

My hon. Friend the Member for Colne Valley asked about a UK trade envoy for Iraqi Kurdistan, which is probably under consideration. Such appointments are made by No. 10, which is aware of the opportunities in Iraqi Kurdistan. We have spoken about visas, Anfal and flights. This is one of those remarkable occasions on which I have addressed every single question raised by hon. Members. This debate has been entirely consensual. There is no party political divide, and we agree that the work of the all-party group has been superb and continues to be so. We agree that we need to do much more in the area on education, cultural links and business opportunities. We need to do a lot to remind the world of the horrendous suffering of the Iraqi Kurds, and we need to do more to raise awareness and to alleviate the suffering of many refugees from Syria. The extraordinarily complicated mix in the area is the fallout from what is going on in Syria. On human rights, we need to ensure the safety and freedom of journalists. We want free and fair elections. We want good relations with all the disparate parts of Iraq, and we want to end barbaric practices such as female genital mutilation. We are in a good place and we are doing a lot, but we can always do a lot more. With such an active all-party group, we are in a pretty good place.

Access to Justice (British Citizens Abroad)

Lord Swire Excerpts

Monday 6th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

Let me say at the outset that both the hon. Ladies who have spoken have taken exactly the right approach in representing their constituents. If I were in their position, I would do the same. That is what MPs are there for. The two hon. Ladies may be representing different sides of the argument—one represents the accused and one represents the person against whom the crime was perpetrated—but they are both absolutely within their rights to come to the House to raise these issues on behalf of their constituents.

We must manage expectations. I do not agree with the view that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is not doing enough. I will expand on that in the following minutes. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) for securing a debate on this important issue.

I will deal straight away with the points that were made by the hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander). It is worth saying at the outset that the case is now at the judicial investigation stage, which means that the police have handed it to the courts, which will now decide whether further investigation is required or whether they have enough evidence to proceed. In Greece, that can be a very long process, and we are doing all we can to ensure that Ms Matthews and others have as much information as possible. It is also worth pointing out that all the men involved in the incident and their families are receiving consular assistance. We repeatedly advise them, however, to speak to their lawyers about anything of a legal nature. We met three of the families in particular at their request, and we offered to meet Ms Matthews at any time.

Providing assistance to British nationals who are the victims of serious crimes overseas and their next of kin is a core priority for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. To put the matter into context, in 2012 alone, FCO staff dealt with more than 1 million consular inquiries and 100,000 consular cases and provided consular assistance to more than 20,000 people as they endured the trauma of being a victim of crime with the additional challenge of being in an unfamiliar country whose language, culture and judicial systems can be very different from ours.

We can and do provide support, experience and assistance and put those in need in contact with charities and other organisations, several of which we help to fund. We can and do also use our diplomatic network to put pressure on foreign Governments to make changes or improvements to their processes. We are committed to delivering support of the highest standards and, as our consular strategy makes plain, to improving continually our service and offering the most vulnerable the greatest level of support.

However, in such circumstances there are also clear limitations to what we can do—this is where we come back to the management of expectation. For instance, we cannot become involved in the competent judicial process of another country or ask the taxpayer to fund legal cases in foreign courts. I know that the hon. Member for Walthamstow has been deeply concerned about the case of Tyrell Matthews-Burton, who was tragically killed in Crete last year. I, too, would like to take this opportunity to extend my deepest sympathies to Tyrell’s mother, Ms Matthews.

From the moment we were informed of Tyrell’s death, officials have provided extensive support to Ms Matthews. In the immediate aftermath, consular staff in Crete spent time at the police station, hospital and court to offer support. The hon. Lady shakes her head in disagreement, but I am stating the chronology of what happened. It might not have been enough, but it is what actually happened in the aftermath.

In London, teams were in daily contact with the families of those involved to provide assistance and referrals to organisations such as Victim Support. Ms Matthews was assigned a caseworker and quickly issued with a passport, and with the support of one of the charities that the FCO helps to fund, Missing Abroad, flights to Crete and accommodation were arranged at no cost to the family. We have continued to provide full support to Ms Matthews, from repatriating Tyrell’s body to liaising with Her Majesty’s coroner following Ms Matthews’s request to see the post mortem report.

One of the greatest challenges for victims of crime at home and abroad is gaining access to information. Of course, in the case of crimes committed overseas, geographic distance, language and procedure are all added barriers. I know that a lack of information can lead to extreme frustration, compound anxiety and result in a loss of confidence in the judicial process of the country involved. That is entirely understandable. We therefore do what we can to get updates as soon as possible as well as providing guidance on local systems and procedures. In Tyrell’s case, consular staff were on hand from the outset to help liaise with the authorities and provide a range of important information explaining the local police and legal systems and giving details of local lawyers and interpreters. Consular officials at the British embassy in Athens have also lobbied for information the Greek Ministries of Foreign Affairs and of Justice, as well as the Greek police and judiciary, and have attended some initial meetings. We stand ready to continue to do that as the family navigates the local system, and to attend the first day and verdict of any future trial.

Systems overseas are often different from our own, and unlike in the UK, it may not be possible for individuals to obtain information directly. Investigating authorities and courts may refuse to answer inquiries from third parties, including foreign Governments or consular officials. For those reasons, we always advise victims of crime overseas to instruct a local lawyer who can access detailed information on their client’s behalf, and judge whether an investigation is conducted in line with local laws. From the outset, we and the Greek authorities have recommended that Ms Matthews obtain legal representation.

I understand, of course, that appointing a lawyer can put a huge financial burden on a family—something to which the hon. Member for Walthamstow alluded. However, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office cannot fund legal representation. We are simply not resourced to offer such funding, and in the case of Ms Matthews we have done all we can to explore alternative legal aid options in the United Kingdom and Greece, including offering advice on the EU compensation scheme. Following the meeting between the hon. Lady, Ms Matthews, and my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, I am pleased that work to identify a lawyer and funding from Victim Support has enabled Ms Matthews to appoint a Greek lawyer.

I also wish to address the concerns raised by the hon. Lady that the UK police could do more, and that a senior investigating officer and family liaison officer were not appointed at the outset. In 2012 the British Government agreed a memorandum of understanding with the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Coroners’ Society of England and Wales regarding support in murder/manslaughter cases. It sets out Government support to the next of kin, including what we can do to ensure a proper and thorough investigation. The MOU is clear that the UK police cannot investigate a crime overseas unless invited by a foreign Government to do so. Even in cases where a suspect is British, the jurisdiction of the country where the crime took place takes precedence.

The UK police get involved only exceptionally where there is a genuine operational need, such as securing forensic samples or conducting formal inquiries on behalf of foreign police in the UK, and that was not the case following Tyrell’s death. It is an operational decision for the police whether to appoint a senior investigating officer or family liaison officer. In this case, the police initially decided to identify an officer as the single point of contact. Following the intervention of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the Greek police assigned an individual to liaise with the Met police and, as a result, a senior investigating officer and family liaison officer were duly appointed. However, as the investigation in Greece has been completed and the file now lies with the judicial authorities, as I said at the outset of my remarks, there is little information to be shared through that channel.

The British Government cannot interfere in trials or legal processes in other countries. We would not accept other countries doing that in the UK, and we therefore need to respect their systems. In some circumstances, however, we will continue to make representations to local authorities where appropriate. That includes cases where there are concerns that the investigation is not being carried out in line with local procedures. We stand ready to do that in this case should the need arise. Meanwhile, we will continue to raise the case more generally through normal diplomatic channels.

The British ambassador to Greece first raised Tyrell’s death with the mayor of Malia and the chief of police last summer, and as the hon. Member for Walthamstow knows, we are facilitating a meeting between her and the Greek ambassador to London in the near future, to discuss the case and the issues it raises.

We have a consular service that many countries envy and of which we are rightly proud. However, we cannot always meet every need and expectation. Of course we want to improve; we seek to learn from every case, and continually review our consular policy, guidance to staff and training.

[Stella Creasy]

I thank the Minister for intervening and I am pleased that the Foreign Office will be assisting my office in arranging a meeting with the Greek authorities. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office had specifically told my office that that was for me to organise, so I am pleased that there has been a change of mind. May I press him on the point about the EU framework on the decision on the rights of victims of crime, which has been fully in force since 2006? I appreciate that the way in which it applies in the UK with regard to the Greek authorities’ behaviour towards the Matthews family is a technical point of EU law. However, can he and his officials give me an assurance on that specific point? Will he clarify that the conduct of the Foreign Office in the matter—it failed to ensure that Ms Matthews had legal representation in that trial—is in accordance with that legislation, which our nation has ratified?

[Mr Swire]

Let me say two things to the hon. Lady. First, we have done everything we can, and continue to do everything we can, in compliance with every international obligation. I have tried to articulate that in what I have said in the past 10 or 15 minutes. Secondly, to answer her other question, it is my understanding that the Foreign Office has arranged access to the Greek ambassador in London. Indeed, the consular department of the Foreign Office intends to accompany her to the meeting. I hope she is reassured on that point.

As I have said, we do not imagine that we get it right the whole time. I have tried to contextualise the matter and to explain to the House not only the complexity but the size of the issue. We are always asked to fund things that we simply are not funded for. No party in government or opposition plans to change the policy—if any party did, it would be a significant change and one we should be aware of. We do everything we can within the existing guidelines, but, as I have said, we do not always get things right. We want to improve and learn from experience; we are human. In this case, we are doing everything we can.

As I have said, we continually review our consular policy, our guidance to staff and our training. As part of that, in 2014 we will evaluate the impact of the memorandum of understanding on murder/manslaughter and our internal guidance to consular staff on helping next of kin. We are making changes to our services so that they focus more effectively on the needs of British nationals. That will include better and clearer information —information is key—on local services such as lawyers and legal aid.

We are currently exploring what more we can do to build on the legal guides that Fair Trials International has developed—it has done so with Foreign and Commonwealth Office funding. For instance, we are working with Justice Across Borders and identifying pro bono legal advice providers for victims of crime overseas. That is part of a strategy to establish more partnerships with specialist organisations, which goes alongside increasing funding for those with which we already work. Finally, we have introduced flexibility in our policy on our staff translating and interpreting when British nationals need to talk to local authorities.

Therefore, after three and a half years, the Government are seizing the issue and dealing with it in a more realistic way than has perhaps been the case in the past. If the hon. Lady has any concerns, I would be more than happy for her to come to me or for her to see the Under-Secretary of State. I have come to the case fresh—I read the reports at the time, but it has not been on my desk for a long time—and have gone through it with officials in some detail today. I have a fresh set of eyes. Of course, I do not share the hon. Lady’s views—I do not represent her constituent, and I would probably have a different view if I did so—but I am convinced that we are doing everything we can. In fact, I believe we have done more than can be expected in offering to fix up a meeting between her and the Greek ambassador.

We face many challenges as we try to help victims to get justice overseas. Cases can be complex and move slowly through foreign legal systems that British nationals find hard to understand. British MPs can find them hard to understand or will not understand them. Our remit does not extend to foreign countries. Things often do not work abroad in the way we would expect them to work here. Translating what happens here to systems abroad serves no purpose because we cannot change those systems. We must operate within them.

[Stella Creasy]

I thank the Minister for letting me intervene. I will try one more time. I would be ever so grateful if he could clarify, in writing, that he believes that in this matter the current Government have met their obligations under EU law on victims of crime and their treatment. I appreciate that he believes what he has been told by officials. I invite him to meet the families to understand the other side of the story about what has happened. On the particular point about access to justice and the requirements under that legislation, will he give a commitment to the House to investigate the legal ramifications of the failure of this Government to ensure legal representation for the Matthews family in the trial?

[Mr Swire]

There has been no failure by this Government on any point. I entirely refute that and it is not helpful for the hon. Lady to suggest that when we are doing everything we can for the hon. Lady’s constituent. However, I will certainly ensure in writing, if I have not made myself clear verbally, that our position remains clear: we are absolutely certain that we have followed the existing guidelines in every single way—in fact, more so.

I concede that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office may not always meet the full expectations of victims and their families. Indeed, it would be impossible for us to do so, because expectations exceed capability and that would be the same however much resource we threw at this problem. That makes it even more important to have under constant consideration what we can offer, and to find new ways to provide it.

I respect the hon. Lady’s position in bringing this matter to the House, but she is a Member of Parliament and she has to respect what all parties are signed up to. If she feels in any way that the Government have been derelict in their duties towards her constituent she is right to raise that, but I have heard nothing tonight to suggest that that is the case. On whether the Government have been compliant with existing laws, I will ensure that she is written to, to explain that to her. In the meantime, we must all await what happens in Greece. She will be in a good position when, with the assistance of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, she meets the Greek ambassador shortly.

Question put and agreed to.