Data Protection Bill [HL]

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 10th October 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to be moving the Second Reading today and look forward gratefully to the help of my right honourable friend the Minister of State at the Home Office and my noble friends Lady Chisholm and Lady Vere.

New technologies have started innumerable economic revolutions, and the pace of change continues to accelerate. It is 20 years since we passed the last Data Protection Act, and since then we have seen the explosive growth of the world wide web, the rise of social media and faster and faster connectivity, powering new devices like the smartphone. The nature of developing technologies such as artificial intelligence and machine learning suggests that continuing transformation and change is the norm.

This has not escaped the notice of your Lordships’ House. Earlier this year we debated many of these issues in the new Digital Economy Act. We have a new Select Committee to examine artificial intelligence, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, who is not able to be in his place today as the committee is hearing evidence this afternoon. In March, the Communications Committee published a timely report on growing up with the internet, and just before the Summer Recess the EU Select Committee gave us a very helpful report on data protection. Just yesterday I moved the Second Reading of the Telecommunications Infrastructure (Relief from Non-Domestic Rates) Bill, which will help pave the way for a full-fibre future and 5G. Personal data is the fuel of all these developments. Data is not just a resource for better marketing, better service and delivery. Data is used to build products themselves. It has become a cliché that data is the new oil.

Twenty years ago data protection rights were used to obtain a copy of your credit record or to find out what information about you a public authority had collected. Today we worry daily about cyberattacks, identity theft and online crime. But we are fortunate that our existing laws have protected us well. For all the technological change I have described, we have successfully preserved our rights and freedoms, and we have strong oversight in the shape of an internationally respected Information Commissioner.

Looking ahead, we have three objectives. First, with all this change we need to maintain trust. Data must be secure, with transparency over how they are used and a proportionate but rigorous enforcement regime in place. Secondly, we must support future trading relationships. The free flow of data across international boundaries, subject to safeguards, must be allowed to continue. Thirdly, we must ensure that we can continue to tackle crime in all its guises and protect national security, making sure that our law enforcement agencies can work in partnership domestically as well as internationally.

The Data Protection Bill meets these objectives. It will empower people to take control of their data, support UK businesses and organisations through the change, ensure that the UK is prepared for the future after we have left the EU, and, most importantly, it will make our data protection laws fit for the digital age in which an ever increasing amount of data is being processed. The Bill meets and exceeds international standards, and, with its complete and comprehensive data protection system, will keep the UK at the front of the pack of modern digital economies.

The Bill makes bespoke provision for data processing in three very different situations: general data processing, which accounts for the vast majority of data processing across all sectors of the economy and the public sector; law enforcement data processing, which allows the effective investigation of crime and operation of the criminal justice system while ensuring that the rights of victims, witnesses and suspects are protected; and intelligence services data processing, which makes bespoke provision for data processed by the three intelligence agencies to protect our national security.

The reform of protections for the processing of general personal data will be of greatest interest to individuals and organisations. We are setting new standards for protecting this data in accordance with the general data protection regulation, known as the GDPR. Individuals will have greater control over and easier access to their data. They will be given new rights and those who control data will be more accountable.

In our manifesto at the general election we committed to provide people with the ability to require major social media platforms to delete information held about them, especially when that information related to their childhood. The new right to be forgotten will allow children to enjoy their childhood without having every personal event, achievement, failure, antic or prank that they posted online to be digitally recorded for ever more. Of course, as new rights like this are created, the Bill will ensure that they cannot be taken too far. It will ensure that libraries can continue to archive material, that journalists can continue to enjoy the freedoms that we cherish in this country, and that the criminal justice system can continue to keep us safe.

The new right to data portability—also a manifesto commitment—should bring significant economic benefits. This will allow individuals to transfer data from one place to another. When a consumer wants to move to a new energy supplier, they should be able to take their usage history with them rather than guess and pay over the odds. When we do the weekly supermarket shop online, we should be able to move our shopping list electronically. In the digital world that we are building, these are not just nice-to-haves; they are the changes that will drive innovation and quality, and keep our economy competitive.

The Bill will amend our law to bring us these new rights and will support businesses and others through the changes. We want businesses to ensure that their customers and future customers have consented to having their personal data processed, but we also need to ensure that the enormous potential for new data rights and freedoms does not open us up to new threats. Banks must still be allowed to process data to prevent fraud; regulators must still be allowed to process data to investigate malpractice and corruption; sports governing bodies must be allowed to process data to keep the cheats out; and journalists must still be able to investigate scandal and malpractice. The Bill, borrowing heavily from the Data Protection Act that has served us so well, will ensure that essential data processing can continue.

Having modernised our protections for general data, in Part 3 the Bill then updates our data protection laws governing the processing of personal data by the police, prosecutors and other criminal justice agencies. The Bill will strengthen the rights of data subjects while ensuring that criminal justice agencies can continue to use and share data to investigate crime, bring offenders to justice and keep communities safe. The Bill does not just implement the recent directive on law enforcement data protection; it ensures that there is a single domestic and transnational regime for the processing of personal data for law enforcement purposes across the whole of the law enforcement sector.

People will have the right to access information held about them, although there are carefully constructed exemptions to ensure that investigations, prosecutions and public safety are not compromised. People will always have the right to ensure that the data held about them is fair and accurate, and consistent with the data protection principles.

Part 4 protects personal data processed by our intelligence agencies. We live in a time of heightened and unprecedented terrorist threat. We are all grateful for the work done to protect us, especially by those whom we see every day protecting us in this House. The intelligence services already comply with robust data-handling obligations and, under the new Investigatory Powers Act, are subject to careful oversight. My noble friend Lady Williams signed the latest commencement order in August to bring into force provisions relating to the oversight of investigatory powers by the Investigatory Powers Commissioner and the other judicial commissioners.

Data processing by the intelligence agencies requires its own bespoke data protection regime, not least because the GDPR standards were not designed for this kind of processing and data processing for national security purposes is outside the scope of EU law. That is why this part of the Bill will instead be aligned with the internationally recognised data protection standards found in the draft modernised Council of Europe Convention for the Protection of Individuals with Regard to the Processing of Personal Data.

Noble Lords will be familiar with the role of the Information Commissioner, whose role is to uphold information rights in the public interest, promoting openness by public bodies and data privacy for individuals. The Bill provides for her to continue to provide independent oversight, supervising our systems of data protection, but we are also significantly enhancing her powers. Where the Information Commissioner gives notices to data controllers, she can now secure compliance, with the power to issue substantial administrative penalties of up to 4% of global turnover. Where she finds criminality, she can prosecute.

The Bill modernises many of the offences currently contained in the Data Protection Act, as well as creating two new offences. First, as recommended by Dame Fiona Caldicott, the National Data Guardian for Health and Care, the Bill creates a new offence of the unlawful re-identification of de-identified personal data. To elaborate, huge datasets are used by researchers, as well as by those developing new methods of machine learning, and these are often pseudonymised to protect individual privacy. We need to ensure that those who seek to gain through re-identification are clear that we will not tolerate assaults on individual privacy, nor on the valuable data assets that are fuelling our innovative industries.

Secondly, the Bill creates a new offence of altering or destroying personal data to prevent individuals accessing it. Such an offence is already in place in relation to public authorities, but now it will apply to data controllers more generally. We are equipping the commissioner with the powers to deal with a wider range of offending behaviour.

Cybersecurity is not just a priority for the Government but a deep running concern of this House. Effective data protection relies on organisations adequately protecting their IT systems from malicious interference. Our new data protection law will require organisations that handle personal data to evaluate the risks of processing such data and implement appropriate measures to mitigate those risks. Generally, that means better cybersecurity controls.

Under the new data protection framework, if a data breach risks the rights and freedoms of an individual, data controllers—both for general data and law enforcement purposes—are required to notify the Information Commissioner within 72 hours of the breach taking place. In cases where there is a high risk, businesses must notify the individuals concerned. This landmark change in the law will put the need for serious cybersecurity at the top of every business priority list and ensure that we are safer as a nation.

As we move into the digital world of the future, the Data Protection Bill will both support innovation and provide assurance that our data is safe. It will upgrade our legislation, allowing the UK to maintain the gold standard in this important field. Of critical importance, strong protections of personal data are the key to allowing free flows of data to continue between the EU and UK as we build a new partnership. I look forward to hearing noble Lords’ comments on the Bill. I beg to move.

Telecommunications Infrastructure (Relief from Non-Domestic Rates) Bill

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, I am very pleased to be able to assist my noble friend Lord Bourne in moving the Second Reading of this short but vital Bill.

In our modern world, businesses and individuals depend on being connected, and the ways in which this happens are becoming more and more diverse. We are fast moving beyond mere mobile phones to increasingly digital communications, and in the future this will include ultrafast broadband technology and 5G—the next generation of mobile connectivity. Fibre is crucial to both of these. The Bill will support that progression for both fixed and mobile or wireless networks by delivering a vital part of the Government’s package on fibre investment. The Bill will provide the framework to implement the Chancellor’s promise in the Autumn Statement 2016 to allow 100% business rate relief for new fibre up to 2022.

Many noble Lords have raised the problems of slow internet or poor mobile phone services. These matters are important to people. They affect the enjoyment of their lives and the success of their businesses. By delivering world-class connectivity we can transform our public services, bringing efficiencies to business and improving the lives of individuals. Central to this challenge is providing the digital infrastructure that can support these demands. All these connections rely on more fibre-optic cable. Fibre is the gold standard, and we are committed to delivering it, but we have heard concerns from operators that business rates acts as a barrier to that investment.

The commitment given at the Autumn Statement in 2016 will mean that new fibre investment made after April 2017 will not be subject to business rates until 2022. Telecom operators will continue to pay rates on their existing network, alongside all other ratepayers who pay business rates on their business properties, but by providing a temporary relief for new fibre we will give this sector the boost it needs to meet demand. The sector has been calling for this and telling us it will make a difference in the delivery of new fibre. We have made great progress in the last few years to improve connectivity across the UK. Superfast broadband is already available to 93% of homes and businesses; we are on track to reach 95% by the end of the year. We want to go further and providing rate relief on new fibre will help achieve this goal.

We will have the opportunity to discuss the Bill in more detail in Committee but I will briefly outline what it does. This short Bill contains six clauses and, essentially, gives us the powers we need to deliver the relief through regulations. The first three clauses contain the powers for those regulations covering occupied and unoccupied properties on local rating lists, and those on the central rating list held by the Secretary of State. The remaining three clauses deal with consequential and financial matters, allowing the relief to be backdated to 1 April 2017.

In order to calculate how much relief should be awarded on telecom networks, the regulations made under these powers will require the valuation officer to issue a certificate of the rateable value attributable to the new fibre. This will then be used by the local authority to calculate the amount of relief which should be awarded, ensuring that we will give relief only on the new fibre and not on any existing networks. We have already published draft regulations, in August, explaining how this will work and started discussions with the sector on its implementation. Consultation on the draft regulations will run for 12 weeks. The Valuation Office Agency will also hold discussions with the sector on how the relief will operate in practice. So I hope noble Lords will appreciate that we have already explained how the powers will work, thereby ensuring that the scheme operates smoothly.

More widely, the Bill is just one of several measures we are taking to boost Britain’s connectivity, including our ambition for more fibre. Over the summer we announced more details of the universal service obligation, so that every household will be able to get acceptable broadband by 2020. This will provide a vital safety net to ensure that no one is left behind. In the Digital Economy Act we reformed the Electronic Communications Code, which regulates agreements between site providers and communications operators, to make it easier to deploy, maintain and upgrade electronic communications infrastructure. We are also forming a dedicated team to look at how government can remove barriers to deployment, which will work with other departments and industry.

We will see a more competitive market as a result of the agreement between BT and Ofcom to separate out Openreach. A legally separate Openreach will serve not just all its customers but the whole of the United Kingdom. We are supporting fibre rollout through a £400 million Digital Infrastructure Investment Fund. This will help accelerate the rollout of fibre by providing better access to commercial finance for alternative developers of full-fibre infrastructure. In turn, that will help smaller operators compete with larger players. The Government’s investment will be at least matched, on the same terms, by private sector investors. As a result, we expect to see private sector investment into full-fibre broadband reach around £1 billion overall. We are also investing £200 million in our local full-fibre programme, supporting local bodies to stimulate new fibre development.

In total, our efforts are worth £1.1 billion to support the sector, and once this Bill receives Royal Assent the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Valuation Office Agency will move quickly to implement the rate relief for new fibre retrospectively to 1 April 2017. We want to see a country where people are better connected, where everyone can get online and reach their full potential and where no one is left behind. This Bill provides a step on that journey. I beg to move.

Gaming Machines

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clement-Jones]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made with their Review of Gaming Machines and Social Responsibility Measures.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, the review generated a lot of interest from the general public, as well as from a variety of interest groups, local authorities, trade bodies and industry. As the Minister for Sport and Civil Society made clear in the other place before the Recess, any announcement will not be made until October at the earliest.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, that is not an unexpected reply. Does the Minister accept that the NatCen report published last month provides clear evidence that 43% of FOBT users are either problem or at-risk gamblers? In that light, does he accept that it is high time that the Government end their internal debate, override the Treasury objections and act to reduce the committed stake and slow the speed of play on these dangerous machines without any further delay?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, the noble Lord has misunderstood several things. First, the Chancellor has said publicly that he fully supports the work of the DCMS to ensure that the UK’s gambling regime continues to balance the needs of vulnerable people, consumers who gamble responsibly and those who work in this sector. Of the 2.38 million who are at risk, 1.4 million are at low risk, and I completely understand the noble Lord’s point about 430,000 problem gamblers being 430,000 too many. That is exactly why we are having the review, which we hope will be published soon. We will then be able to do something about it, depending on what the options are.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab)]

In his Answer, the Minister referred to October. October of which year?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Actually, I said not before October, and I meant 2017.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, younger gamblers, aged 18 to 24, have a greater propensity to develop problem gambling and mental health issues. They do it mostly online, which is very quick and easy. What will the Government do to reduce the volume of gambling advertising, particularly at sporting events? In many cases, the tone of this advertising is very clearly aimed at young people.

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[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is a valid point. Although there is a watershed protecting young children, it does not apply to live sporting events. Advertising—as well as other social responsibility issues—is included in the review, which will be published soon.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, one has only to walk down the high street in some of the very poor areas in our cities to find that every other shop appears to be a gambling place. Will the Minister look at planning laws as part of the review, to ensure that some of these gambling shops, or casinos or whatever they are, can be limited in number?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am pleased to say that the review includes in its scope the numbers and locations of gaming machines within shops. But this is not a review of planning law—that was not included

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the fact is that this review is long overdue. The Minister has reassured the House on previous occasions about when it will be published. In the meantime, thousands of people suffering from problem gambling are left vulnerable. The Government need to act, and act promptly, on this matter. There must be a holistic approach. It is not just FOBTs, although they are a great problem, but the issue of how easy it is now to bet, particularly online. With mobile phones you can be anywhere in the world and bet a fortune. The Government must act.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is exactly why, within the review, the issues of social responsibility and advertising are covered, including online gambling. We agree that there are issues to be dealt with. That is why we have the review and why it will be published. But there must be an evidence-based approach. There will be a consultation to make sure that, for example, action cannot be subject to judicial review.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I speak as a former Home Office Minister responsible for these matters. In this area of gambling in particular and its effects on society, does my noble friend not agree that, however well he may be performing these responsibilities in his department, it might be a good idea for the Government to transfer them back to the Home Office, where proper regulation can be applied?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I had not considered that issue, I must admit, but I do not think it is for me to comment.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, talking of gaming machines and games of chance, Lady Emma Hamilton enjoyed games of chance and 224 years ago yesterday she met Nelson—an affair of the heart. On Nelson’s heart was engraved “lack of frigates”. He had some 284 of them. Today, the Government are committed to maintaining only 19 escorts. Does the Minister think we should have a somewhat better aspiration, or it may be engraved on all our hearts?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am afraid I had not thought about that.

[Lord Smith of Hindhead (Con)]

My Lords, will the Minister update the House about what the Government are doing to make online gambling safer for consumers, particularly in relation to operators based outside of the UK with British customers?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Online gambling was brought under the regulatory regime in 2014. One of the main ways of dealing with this is to approach the payment providers. If an unlicensed gambling operator is not obeying the regulations, they will be prevented from operating with the payment providers. There is not much point in them operating if they cannot get paid.

Digital Understanding

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Baroness and everyone who has contributed to the debate. I have 10 minutes and about 50 minutes’ worth of material, so I will speak fast and hope I will be able to answer some questions.

This is obviously an extremely important subject, as demonstrated by the contributions around the House. I have certainly enjoyed the debate. As everyone has said, there are good things and bad things about our digital world, but the genie is well and truly out of the bottle. The noble Lord, Lord Sugar, expressed it more succinctly: “Get over it”, he said. We will have to cope and I will try to explain how we will.

We have three overarching goals for digital technology. First, we want the country to continue to be what it is today—a world-leading digital economy and the best place in the world to innovate with technology and to start and grow a digital business. Secondly, we want all the benefits of digital to be enjoyed by everyone, rather than be the exclusive preserve of tech professionals. Thirdly, we are committed to making the UK the safest place in the world for users to be online. I will come to the point that the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, mentioned.

The noble Baroness, Lady Lane-Fox, is right to highlight the importance of awareness and understanding in accomplishing these goals, but we need the skills to be in that position. I do not have time to outline them, but we are making enormous efforts to develop and enhance these digital skills. If I have time, I will come to some of the educational areas that we are looking at. If not, I will certainly write to everyone who has asked a question which I have not managed to get to.

Thanks to these efforts, we are in a position of relative strength on digital skills internationally. However, that is just one part of the story. Increasingly, people need digital skills in every aspect of their lives: shopping, doing their taxes and getting the best healthcare. So we are taking action on every category of digital skills: basic skills, the general skills needed in most jobs, and advanced skills for specialist roles such as cybersecurity. I will not go through those now, because it is important to focus on what the noble Baroness outlined in her very good opening speech.

The technology promises bountiful opportunities and rewards, but it comes with challenges and threats. These threats are to our security, privacy, emotional well-being, mental health and safety—especially the safety of children. Society’s norms, rules and institutions must all evolve so that technological progress delivers a better world for everyone. That is the underlying thinking behind the digital charter that the UK Government will introduce. It will set out a framework for how businesses—including the huge digital corporations mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Giddens—individuals and wider society should act in the digital world. This is absolutely not just a task for the Government. Over the coming months we will work with businesses, academics, charities and the wider public to build consensus around what this framework should be.

An important part of that work will be the publication of the internet safety strategy Green Paper. This will ask for views on a range of options to counter internet harms. We talked a lot about that in the progress of the Digital Economy Bill last year. Through the strategy, we want to agree the balance of responsibilities shared by technology companies, teachers, parents and the Government in keeping people safe online.

I turn to the difficult issue of social media. The Digital Economy Act requires the establishment of a code of practice, to be issued and reviewed if necessary by the Secretary of State. This will offer guidance to providers of social media platforms on action it may be appropriate to take against users of the platform who engage in intimidating or insulting behaviour. We expect online industries to ensure that they have relevant safeguards and robust processes in place and to act promptly when abuse is reported. The data protection Bill will give individuals more control over their data. We are working also towards an international consensus, which is so important in this area.

I return to the concept of digital understanding. The Government have put forward the idea of establishing a data use and ethics body, which will I believe address some of the examples given by the noble Lord, Lord Janvrin. This will establish a sound ethical framework for understanding how data can and should be used. It will address both the needs of the present and the challenges emerging on the horizon as data use becomes ever more sophisticated. Importantly, it will ensure that the public have confidence that their data are being handled properly, that businesses have the assurance that they are handling data with integrity, and that regulators and Parliament are equipped to identify and guard against abuse. We will be very interested in people’s views, and the body will consult widely. Since we mentioned it in a debate in this House in July, we have been working with stakeholders such as the Nuffield Foundation, the Royal Society and the British Academy to identify the roles and functions. So the Government are working with the public, tech companies, education and training providers, and charities such as that of the noble Baroness, Lady Lane-Fox, Doteveryone, on this vital agenda.

I will quickly come to as many of the questions as I can. The noble Lord, Lord Janvrin, asked if digital was a priority of this Government. I confirm that it is a priority—which is reflected in the fact that my department has now been renamed the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport. The noble Baronesses, Lady Lane-Fox, Lady O’Neill and Lady Kidron, asked whether we would make a clear articulation of values online. We absolutely agree with the importance of articulating those, which of course is why we are going to introduce a new digital charter and set out a framework, as I mentioned. Our starting point is that the delicate and careful limits that we have honed over generations for life offline should apply online, too.

It is true that I went to inspect my noble friend Lord Cathcart’s broadband, which I would describe as slow but sure. However, being serious, this is difficult. We are on track to reach 95% superfast broadband. For the 5%, there are problems, but I assure my noble friend and the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy, that, in her words, there has been real government support for this. More than £24 million of central government funding has been allocated to better broadband for Norfolk. That has been matched by local council funding, which means that more than 173,000 additional homes and businesses are able to access superfast broadband in Norfolk. I accept that, for people who do not have it, this is a real problem—I have experienced it myself. But I also commend what the right reverend Prelate said about WiSpire fixed wireless providers. They would be particularly appropriate in Norfolk—which, as we know, is very flat.

[Baroness Murphy]

Could I just ask the Minister whether he has seen trees in Norfolk?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I did not quite hear that.

[Baroness Murphy]

Trees.

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[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I realise there are trees in Norfolk. I would have mentioned to my noble friend Lord Cathcart the work we have done on bringing forward 5G, but as he does not have a mobile telephone, there is no point.

The noble Lords, Lord Maxton and Lord Baker, talked about joined-up government activities on education. I cannot go into all the details now—I would be happy to write to the noble Lord—but the DfE is working closely with the DCMS in improving communication and coherence in digital skills. As an example of that, we have DfE officials in the Box today. We were the first country to mandate computing sciences in both primary and secondary schools. As I have said, I will write further to the noble Lord on our whole education provision.

The noble Lord, Lord Maxton, will remember that in the Digital Economy Act we took some time to talk about data in government departments and how they could be used, subject to relevant safeguards. We are making progress with that, but it is very difficult and we have to be careful with the safeguards. None the less, we have made a lot of progress. ID cards are a separate subject, which is probably out of date: it is much easier to microchip the noble Lord than to give him an ID card.

I am coming to the end of my time; I am sorry that I did not have the full amount of time. Lastly, I must add that we are giving attention to lifelong learning, which we take very seriously. As announced in the 2017 Budget, we are spending £40 million to deal with it. My time is now up. I will of course reply to all noble Lords who I did not even begin to answer. I wish I had had more time. These are vital issues, and the Government are working hard to address them, but we need to do so in partnership with academia, business, charities and other stakeholders. I also look forward to many more contributions from your Lordships on this vital subject.

BBC: Equal Pay

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Thursday 20th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions or consultations have taken place between Her Majesty’s Government and the BBC regarding equal pay.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have not discussed equal pay with the BBC. However, the Government believe in transparency, which is why we have required the BBC to publish the salary details of its staff and talent. Employers with more than 250 staff, including the BBC, are now required by law to publish their gender pay gap and will do so for the first time at the end of this financial year.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, given that it is nearly 50 years—half a century—since the Equal Pay Act, that is quite a disappointing Answer. We should all be immensely proud of the BBC as a standard bearer and a standard setter for high-quality drama, entertainment, factual programmes and news. The publication of salary levels has received considerable comment, some perhaps unfair. As other media outlets are not as open and transparent as the BBC, we do not have any information on the competitive context.

However, on the issue of gender pay equality within the BBC, the criticism appears justified—and while Eddie Mair’s reference to the male anatomy on Radio 4’s “PM” programme last night might be a bit much for your Lordships’ House on the last day of term, it is hard to understand why the male Y chromosome justifies a higher salary. It is significant how many of our most senior, well-qualified and experienced women presenters and journalists are paid so much less than their male counterparts. So I have two questions for the Minister: given that he specifically referred to transparency in his Answer, is it not time for the Government to ensure that all employers publish gender pay audits; and does he share the concerns that the disclosures yesterday could lead to the loss of experienced, talented women from the BBC?

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[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I think there is a slight confusion here. On the one hand, the accusation is that publishing these figures will lead to talent being attracted elsewhere; on the other hand, we are able to see the position in the BBC. I agree with the noble Baroness that it would appear that, based on this sample of 96 employees out of the 19,000 BBC employees, there is a roughly two-thirds, one-third split. I am very pleased that the director-general of the BBC has admitted that this is not good enough and is committed to narrowing the gap to make it equal by 2020. So I am pleased that we did this. We have learned some lessons. It remains to be seen whether the gloomy prognostications of those who think it will harm the BBC come to pass.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, clearly the publication of these figures has been a wake-up call for the BBC. I note that other media organisations have gleefully criticised it. Well, we will see what we will see when they have to publish their pay gap figures next year. Will the Minister confirm that, with effect from next year, all organisations with 250 or more staff will be required to publish their gender pay gap figures, thanks to the work of the Liberal Democrats and specifically Jo Swinson in the dying days of the coalition?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am certainly not sure about the last part of that question. However, I can confirm that the regulations came into force on 31 March this year for the public sector and on 6 April for the private sector. Organisations with more than 250 employees have 12 months to publish their gender pay gap figures for the first time, and will have to every year thereafter. That means that the BBC will need to publish its overall figures by April 2018. That is a much more important measure, which will look at all the employees in the organisation, not just some of the top-paid stars.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, drawing attention to the gender pay gap in the BBC is extremely important, and I was shocked to see that neither Jenni Murray nor Jane Garvey, who are excellent broadcasters, were even mentioned—which means they earn less than £150,000 a year. Closing the gender pay gap by 2020 is, frankly, too late. I would also ask about the black and ethnic minority pay gap. It is shocking to note that Chris Evans earns more than every person of colour who is employed at a high level in the BBC. What are the Government doing to make representations to the BBC on that aspect of the pay gap?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I did note the comments that Jane Garvey made about the differential in salaries. This illustrates the problem when you look at specific individuals, because the comparison between them is not necessarily obvious just from the figures. They may work at different periods, for one day a week or five days a week. It may include some parts of their remuneration but not others, which may come through BBC Studios or other commercial arms of the BBC. But the general point is made. We take diversity seriously and have put diversity in the BBC’s new public purposes in the charter renewal to make sure that it delivers for everyone in the UK. Our position is clear: the BBC should be leading the way in diversity, both on screen and off screen, in equal measure.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

Would my noble friend not take any sauce from opposition parties on this matter? After all, none of the opposition parties has ever seen fit to have a woman leader. This party—our party—has had two women Prime Ministers. Let them put their actions where their mouths are and elect a woman leader.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I always listen to my noble friend. As far as I am concerned, I am in an interesting position. I serve a female Prime Minister and a female Leader of the House. I am answering a Question from a female Leader of the Opposition. In my department, there is a female Secretary of State, a female Permanent Secretary and a female Government Whip. When I recover from that—I mean, when I go home after a very pleasurable day—I go home to a wife and four daughters.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

Does the Minister agree that some of these salaries are not just large but extraordinarily large, by any standards? When you contrast that with those of public servants who are dealing with life-and-death issues day by day, does it not seem that our priorities have got seriously out of order at this time? Could the Minister use his influence to indicate to the BBC that, frankly, when it comes to talk about how we could lose these fantastic talents—well, why not?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I completely agree. This is a sort of philosophical question that should really have a debate. It is a question of cost versus value and priorities. I would point out that the Labour Party, in the discussions on the proposal to require these issues to be published, thought that it was a bad idea and that the proposal should be withdrawn.

[Lord Steel of Aikwood (LD)]

Does the Minister not agree that it is outrageous that any individual is paid more than £2 million from licence fee money?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

It is a very large amount—but why draw the line at £2 million as opposed to any other amount?

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on serving so many women masters with such good grace and fortitude. Further, I congratulate the Government on introducing Ofcom as the first external regulator and for advising it to introduce an operating framework for the BBC. Should equal pay not be one of the first models that the operating framework should cover?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I do not agree with my noble friend. Diversity and equal pay are management issues for the BBC. The board of the BBC should be obeying the law and should be paying people on an equal basis, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or anything else. The BBC knows full well what our view is, and the director general of the BBC is committed to doing something about it by 2020.

Rural Areas: Superfast Broadband

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what proportion of the Digital Infrastructure Investment Fund is expected to be available to support the provision of superfast broadband in hard to reach rural areas.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, the digital infrastructure investment fund aims to support industry investment in full fibre networks, which are the next generation of digital infrastructure. The Government are committing £400 million, which will be at least matched by private sector investments on the same terms. It will be up to the selected managers of the fund themselves to make investments.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Fibre alone may not be sufficient to reach the final 5%; that is, those who will not have access to superfast broadband by the end of this year. In the light of that, what is being done to encourage the use of alternate or mixed technologies? In particular, when is BDUK expected to publish its report into superfast broadband market test pilots, which we were promised was to be published at the end of last year?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is absolutely right. We are now not prescriptive about any particular technology to reach the final 5%, as 95% will be covered for superfast broadband by the end of this year. Therefore, any procurement supported by BDUK is done through open tenders on a technology-neutral basis. Projects supported since 2016 have included fibre to the cabinet, fibre to the premises and fixed wireless access. As regards his question about superfast broadband market test pilots, the report is scheduled to be released shortly.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend give the House an assurance that 95% of the digital infrastructure investment fund will be spent in the 5% hardest-to-reach areas? Does he agree that it is unacceptable that doctors’ surgeries, schools, rural businesses and farms are deprived of speed and good access to infrastructure in the 21st century?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The digital infrastructure investment fund is purely for fibre projects. There may be hard-to-reach areas where fibre is not the answer—where, for example, it may be satellite or fixed wireless. Therefore, I cannot give my noble friend the assurance she seeks. The Government are working hard to reach those areas but the digital infrastructure investment fund is purely for fibre, which, of course, is very important for ongoing technology such as 5G.

[Lord Gordon of Strathblane (Lab)]

Given that the Government have now made the provision of fast broadband a universal service obligation, does the Minister recognise the need to create another fund which will focus on technologies other than fibre to reach the most difficult parts?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Actually, fibre is crucial because it underlines every other technology as, sooner or later, when you are on wireless, you get to a router, and the data come via fibre-optic cable. 5G, which will reach a lot more places and has more bandwidth, relies on fibre for all the extra masts that will be required.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister talked very broadly on the fibre front, but in rural and indeed less rural places like Leominster, people currently endure upload speeds of less than 1 megabit per second. Can he tell us when these people will be invited to join the digital economy?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

At the moment, anyone with a connection of less than two megabits per second is entitled under the better broadband scheme to have subsidised access to it. If they are above that but below superfast level, the universal service obligation will be in place by 2020, which will give them 10 megabits per second, and that will allow them to do normal things such as emails and streaming TV.

[Lord Harrison (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister knows rural Cheshire well. Will he ensure that superfast broadband will aid and abet small businesses to establish themselves in the countryside so that they can strengthen the countryside for the benefit of all those who live there?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Lord is correct; I know that area well. I point out that there has been a tremendous improvement in rural connectivity. In 2010, only 15% of rural premises were getting 30 megabits per second; by April 2016 that had risen to 72%, and since that, many more have received the coverage. But I accept that it is important for businesses. When we talk about getting to these targets of 95% and more, we mean premises—which includes business premises as well, not just households.

[Baroness O'Cathain (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate’s Question links very nicely with the Question from the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, about care and consideration for older people in rural areas. We are failing them, and in doing so we are losing a big opportunity to lessen mental health problems, to keep elderly people in contact with their children overseas, to make them see local television and what is going on—in fact, to do away with the isolation that is so prevalent in rural areas for elderly people. What is the date when every part of England, Scotland and Wales will have some broadband as a right?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

By 2020.

Data Ethics Commission

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Harding of Winscombe (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and draw attention to my digital interests as set out in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, data governance and the effective and ethical use of data are vital for the future of our economy and our society. The Government are committed to creating a sound ethical framework in the UK that will give people confidence in how their data are being handled and used. We are working closely with industry, civil society groups and academia to examine how we can best achieve this.

[Baroness Harding of Winscombe]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for his Answer. It is encouraging to hear his enthusiasm, but the scale and scope of data usage is growing fast. Just in the past couple of weeks, parents have been scrambling to work out how to protect their children’s location from Snap Map, and we have heard that Vodafone has been using robots to screen candidates in advance of interviews. Just because you can does not mean that you automatically should. The technology world will not wait for us. Will my noble friend say when a commission will be set up?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for raising this because we agree that these issues are vital. It is critical that we get the rules right so that we can give the public confidence in how their data are being used. I completely agree with her that things are moving very fast. I can be more specific about the timing when we have consulted various groups that will be set up or have been set up, and when we have looked at the reports, particularly the Royal Society and British Academy report. When we have considered those reports we can be more specific, but we aim to update our thinking later in the year.

[Baroness Lane-Fox of Soho (CB)]

My Lords, the necessity of an ethics component in a structural engineering degree is well known: you cannot become one unless you have completed an ethnical component to the course. Would the Minister consider the other points at which we could insert an ethics course in our computer science degrees or other points of learning?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is a very good idea. This affects many areas of work and our society: data are part of everything. Many degrees, not just the ones the noble Baroness mentioned, should consider the ethical issues surrounding this. A careful consideration of ethics is part of any good education.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, Matt Hancock from the other place said that, fundamentally, intelligent systems will take off only if people trust them and how they are regulated. I understand and totally agree with the noble Baroness’s suggestion that we must have a clear timetable for this commission, but what steps are the Government going to take to properly engage with the public to ensure that we gain their trust?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

We are going to liaise with civil society groups, as I have said, and academia. The Nuffield Foundation, for example, is going to develop plans in partnership with the Royal Society, the British Academy, the Royal Statistical Society and the Alan Turing Institute to establish an independent convention on data ethics. This is something we support and will contribute to, and I think the public will be able to learn from such conventions. As I say, we will update our thinking later in the year.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, will this commission cover not only ethics but the use and application of data, for example through machine learning and development of algorithms? Can the Minister also explain how this commission will interrelate with the new data protection regulations starting in 2018 and the digital charter announced in the Queen’s Speech?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The data protection Bill, which will come before Parliament in the autumn, is to give effect to the general data protection regulations and the law enforcement directive. It will obviously include things to do with privacy, but data ethics covers many other things, such as artificial intelligence, which the noble Baroness mentioned. So it is not specifically a regulatory thing, although regulation may come out of it. It is to consider the new issues that come with this new technology.

[Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab)]

My Lords, artificial intelligence has the potential to significantly empower us as humans, but comes with the worries that have been expressed. The noble Baroness, Lady Harding, mentioned parents. What plans do the Government have to engage children in this discussion about their data and their rights to the privacy of that data?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is of course important, and the data protection Bill will include measures to protect children and to allow data which is held by social media companies, for example, to be deleted. As for engaging children in considering these ethical issues, that is something that the data commission can consider but, as I said, we have not yet been specific about the structure, function and remit of the commission.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chair of the ethics and governance council for UK Biobank. Does the Minister agree that the potential value in health of the use of big data—in the development of new medicines and other fields—is enormous? In view of that, will he ensure that the interests of medical research are included in the commission’s terms of reference, given that it is essential that the public have trust in the systems governing the use of their information?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. One issue that the commission can consider is whether, as data increases exponentially and individuals give data which can be used by data-mining companies and others, what is considered private data, even if it is anonymised, can be used for the greater good. We have to consider exactly such things. The Royal Free Hospital, for example, was in trouble under the Data Protection Act for allowing data, although anonymised, to be used by another company. We have to consider such things because a tremendous amount of benefit can be obtained for the general public from that data.

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

My Lords, much of this data is held outside the UK. In fact, we are not sure where quite a lot of it is held. How will we be able to regulate people when we do not know where they are?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The best way is to get international agreement. It was discussed—

[Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab)]

In the EU.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I think it has been discussed in many multinational organisations—including the EU, I completely agree. One point of the data protection Bill is to try to get equivalence in data flow across borders after Brexit, but the point that the noble Lord makes is right: it is not always easy but we have to lead the way to show that an ethical regime is the way forward.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, are all non-classified reports or reports back compiled by officials—for example, reports back on trade missions around the world—in the public domain?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I do not know the answer to that, but I am sure that not every report is in the public domain.

Youth Services

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 3rd July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the need for youth services and how they propose to fund those services.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, local authorities are responsible for assessing local need for youth services and allocating funding. The Government recognise the importance of activities and services outside formal education settings that can help young people develop skills, improve well-being and participate in their communities. The Government are investing up to £80 million through the Youth Investment Fund and the #iwill fund in voluntary and community organisations that work with young people and are continuing to back the National Citizen Service.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Of course, I do not think that that is too little, but local authorities are all cutting back. The Avenues youth centre on Harrow Road has been in existence for 40 years. For the first time, the council has cut all grant to that body. Not only is this a time when young people need to have their outlooks broadened and some joy in life, but we and they need to be protected from knife carrying and the terrible occupations that can easily fill in work for idle hands. How does the Minster think the voluntary sector will cope with that?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

As I said in my previous Answer, local needs are best addressed by local authorities. It is not the ideal position of central government to look at local needs such as those to which my noble friend referred. However, it is not just a question of local authority spending. That is why we are spending £200 million on the National Citizen Service, £40 million on the #iwill fund—looking after a third of its running costs—£40 million on the Youth Investment Fund and £10 million from LIBOR fines for uniformed youth groups. Importantly, we are spending £700,000 on the Delivering Differently for Young People programme, which gives local authorities technical and legal support to help them develop new models for delivering youth services.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, it is all very well saying that decisions are best made locally, which of course they are, but if the Government reduce the funding to local authorities by more than two-fifths, it is inevitable that youth services and other non-statutory mainstream services will suffer. The Government have a responsibility. What are they going to do about the fundamental issue underlying the noble Baroness’s Question, which is that there is a problem in terms of activities for young people which should be properly resourced and funded?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

When local authorities have to make difficult choices, who would noble Lords rather did that—the local authority or central government? We have provided additional money to enable local authorities to look at sustainable models. There are very good examples of local authorities which have grabbed the opportunity, looked anew at how to provide youth services and done it with local partners. I can give the example of Knowsley.

[The Earl of Listowel (CB)]

My Lords, I welcome what the Minister said about additional investment, but going beyond the local and thinking about national security—in terms of preventing the radicalisation of young people and the creation of gangs—does he not think it vital that we invest in youth services? These have been cut to ribbons in the recent cuts arising from the economic crash—they have been decimated. I welcome the money, but so much more work is needed. Will he and colleagues consider putting youth services on a statutory basis so that they are protected over time?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Earl may be aware that such services are on a statutory basis, and local authorities have a statutory duty to provide them. If we just take specific examples from recent years, Unison reported on the cuts to local youth services. For 2014-15, it reported that £85 million was cut. In the meantime, the Government spent £170 million on NCS, £10 million on the Uniformed Youth Social Action Fund, £300,000 on the British Youth Council, £500,000 on Delivering Differently and £270,000 on the Centre for Youth Impact. That is some £128 million against £85 million of cuts. My central point remains that difficult decisions should be made locally. It is not true that, for the reasons that the noble Earl expressed, the Government are doing nothing—let alone the National Citizen Service, which the coalition started in 2011 and which now has about 100,000 young people going through it.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, it has long been clear that voluntary agencies deliver more effectively and at lower cost youth services such as those discussed and as a result keep children out of crime. What are the Government doing to encourage and support the voluntary sector in this vital area?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

For example, there is the National Citizen Service, which I keep mentioning—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I do so because I think it is vital. When the National Citizen Service Bill went through the House, it received virtually unanimous support because it was regarded as a good thing. I encourage noble Lords to visit the NCS during the Summer Recess. They will be impressed. We deliver 80% of that service through local community action groups. The money that central government allocates is spent through local charities, authorities and voluntary groups in the various regions of the country.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that cuts to youth services, public health, libraries and education all hit hardest young people in the poorest and most vulnerable communities? What assessment have the Government made of the impact of these cuts in such communities? What are they going to do about that?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The Government looked at these particularly disadvantaged areas and set up the Youth Investment Fund, funded by DCMS and the Big Lottery Fund. It will award £40 million to the most disadvantaged areas in the country.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)]

My Lords, would the Minister accept that those of us who believe in local government in England despair at the way Westminster and the Government appear to be determining priorities? It is no good saying that local authorities have a statutory duty to provide when there is no quantity attached to that. The Minister keeps referring to local authority choice, but there is none in England: Westminster decides what can be spent and therefore determines what is needed. When will those of us in the English local authority system get the sort of money the Government appear to be spending per capita in Northern Ireland?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

It is not true that it is just a question of local authority cuts. That is why central government is spending £40 million on the Step Up To Serve #iwill fund, £40 million on the Youth Investment Fund and £200 million on the National Citizen Service. They are providing real money to help youth services all around the country.