Sport: Drugs

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 3rd December 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Addington, for introducing this debate on image and performance-enhancing drugs. I think that it has moved on beyond that to a certain extent, and the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, ended up with a more generic view of children. I shall come back to some of those points.

This is a reasonably easy debate to answer because I agree with practically everything that all noble Lords have said. I hope that I shall be able to show not only that we agree with many of the points that have been made but that we are doing something about them. When I say we, I mean we as a Government, because UK Anti-Doping is an arm’s-length body of the DCMS, which is how we promote work in this area.

Like all noble Lords who have spoken, we recognise how important it is not only to protect the integrity of sport, which includes our commitment to keeping sport free from doping, but to protect people from the negative influences outside sport that could cause them harm. As the noble Lord, Lord Addington, mentioned, many young people who watch shows such as “Love Island” could be influenced by images of—how shall I put it?—apparent aesthetic perfection. These unrealistic portrayals of how the average healthy person is supposed to look could well be a reason for the increase in the use of image and performance-enhancing drugs. I will come back to “Love Island” in a minute.

The growth of social media has played a part in making young people feel under more pressure than ever about how they look and to perform at the highest level possible. UK Anti-Doping, an arm’s-length body of DCMS that is widely thought of as one of the world’s leading national anti-doping organisations, is working closely to combat this new trend. As has been said, the majority of anti-doping rule violations in the UK arise as a result of IPED use, particularly steroids. Of the 27 violations published by UKAD, 19 were related to IPEDs. Rugby union players were involved in the largest number of cases, which was as many as boxing and athletics combined.

Tackling the use and sale of IPEDs is part of the Home Office drug strategy, which states that it will take,

“coordinated action working with key partners … and independent experts to better understand the IPED using population”.

In relation to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Addington, it goes on to say that it will,

“raise awareness of the risks of IPED use, including the spread of blood borne infections; support local areas to respond effectively; and take action as necessary to disrupt the supply of IPEDs and any associated criminality”.

In direct answer to the Question on the Order Paper from the noble Lord, Lord Addington, perhaps I can mention some of the measures being taken by UKAD to tackle the use of IPEDs through its various educational programmes. Earlier this year, DCMS led a tailored review of UKAD. One of the outcomes involved UKAD looking further into the health harms associated with the abuse of IPEDs. This was movingly mentioned by my noble friend Lord Moynihan, who gave a specific example. I am therefore delighted that we managed to secure additional funding of £6.1 million to help UKAD carry out the recommendations in the tailored review.

Education and promoting a culture of clean sport in youth sport is important, as was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths. UKAD had a presence at this year’s School Games, attending with national trainers to educate on the values of sport, anti-doping rules and responsibilities, and to give young athletes an insight into the testing process via a mock testing scenario. In accordance with UKAD’s clean games policy, all British athletes attending the Youth Olympic Games and the Commonwealth Youth Games undertake mandatory specific education to support them through the anti-doping procedures during major games. As the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, mentioned, UKAD has other schemes for even younger audiences, such as Get Set for the Spirit of Sport, a classroom-based education syllabus for children aged 10 to 14, and Think Real, a more advanced scheme for 11 to 16 year-olds. I take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths: the fact that we are having to provide such schemes for children of that age is itself worrying.

UKAD offers a free online accredited adviser course, which is promoted through the national governing bodies, to provide those working with junior and amateur athletes the training required to be able to support athletes and their coaches in their anti-doping responsibilities. For a broader audience, Clean Sport Week in May was a public awareness campaign with the objective to educate athletes on the risks of using sports nutrition supplements. As has been highlighted in the debate, uneducated use of supplements is prevalent in amateur sport and presents heightened risks to amateur athletes. The campaign also used social media to better engage younger athletes. It was a partnership with national governing bodies and sports bodies, including the Rugby Football Union.

Several noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Addington, and my noble friend Lord Moynihan talked about gym culture. UKAD recently agreed a research project partnership with ukactive, aimed at giving a clearer understanding of image and performance-enhancing drug use in gyms and leisure centres.

We believe that responses and action from a range of stakeholders are required to make an impact. That is why the Government have set up a working group for agencies to come together for the co-ordination of a prevention strategy. The group has a strong cast list, including devolved public health agencies, the National Crime Agency, the Home Office, the police, the Department of Health and the Department for Education among others. A meeting was held in September, and included a session on sharing activities, initiatives and the views of partners on IPEDS to help gauge the next steps on how best to integrate information and education on the associated health harms and risks. The Home Office, Public Health Wales and the Scottish Government agreed to share data on IPED use, which UK Anti-Doping will analyse to give the working group a steer on how best to target users and potential users outside sport.

I realise that there is a surprising interest on the Liberal Democrat Benches in “Love Island”. Noble Lords will remember the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Storey, about smoking on “Love Island” after which it was banned in public places on the island, so it is true that highlighting the problems can have beneficial effects. But more seriously, because there is a valid point here, my answer to the noble Lord, Lord Addington, is the same as I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Storey. Editorial decisions such as drug testing on future contestants is up to the individual broadcaster. But broadcasters should be aware—I am sure they are—that they must adhere to Ofcom’s broadcasting code, which includes standards to ensure that under-18s are protected in relation to content dealing with drugs, smoking, solvents and alcohol. The illegal use and abuse of drugs,

“must not be condoned, encouraged or glamorised in other programmes likely to be widely seen, heard or accessed by under-eighteens”.

As the noble Lord, Lord Addington, said, UK Anti-Doping wrote in support of co-operation with the producers of these shows. I have seen a copy of the letter. I believe that noble Lords have not received a reply. Of course, is not for us to tell ITV how to answer letters, but it is a common courtesy to reply to a letter. I am sure that it will pay attention to that view.

My noble friend Lord Moynihan talked about UKAD’s clean sport accreditation, which I am aware of. I certainly agree with my noble friend that it is another example of positive work from UKAD in this area. It is for UKAD to decide where to allocate its funding, but I have taken on board my noble friend’s point and I will take it back. He also mentioned that we should ban imports. UK Border Force seized 5.2 million doses of anabolic steroids in 2016-17, an increase on the 4.9 million seized in the previous year. I mentioned the controlled drugs strategy published by the Home Office, which is reflective of the IPED challenge.

I nearly always agree with my noble friend, but we have talked about criminalisation before. The Sports Minister commissioned a review into the criminalisation of doping, which reported last year. Following the period of consultation, the review ultimately found that there was no compelling case to criminalise the act of doping in the UK. That reflected the strong consensus of those interviewed. But I accept and agree with his suggestion that it constitutes fraud on other competitors and probably sponsors, which may be a way forward.

My noble friend also asked whether I would agree that athletes should be involved in the process and in particular he mentioned Beckie Scott in WADA. I broadly support my noble friend’s comments regarding taking the views of athletes more seriously. Athletes know their sport and they know what is going on in many cases, and they should at the very least be part of the drive for clean sport. It is important that WADA is doing all that it can to restore faith in clean sport for both athletes and fans around the world.

The noble Lord, Lord Goddard of Stockport, mentioned role models. I also mentioned that in response to a Question from the noble Lord, Lord Campbell. I agree that role models are important and it is important for athletes to be encouraged to educate and inform young people about clean sport.

The noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, raised the question of children, not just in sport but in the Data Protection Act, gambling and advertising. In a way, it is beyond the scope of this debate and of this Minister to decide whether to look again at the Children Act, but I take his point. There are many areas of policy in which children are very important. I have another Question about children tomorrow, so I am sure that he will be in the Chamber for that.

I am grateful for all contributions. In outlining the Government’s actions, I hope that I have assured noble Lords that the Government will be working closely with all the necessary stakeholders to ensure that work is done to prevent, educate and, I hope, to protect.

Television Licences: Over 75s

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Tuesday 27th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they will take to maintain free television licences for those over the age of 75.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, we know that people across the country value television as a way to stay connected with the world. The Government have guaranteed free licences for those over 75 until 2020. We agreed with the BBC that responsibility for the concession will transfer to it in 2020. It confirmed that no decisions will be taken until the public have been fully consulted, but we have been clear on our expectation that the BBC will continue the concession.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, in its manifesto the Conservative Party actually promised free TV licences for the over-75s until 2022. However, the BBC is currently consulting on “what, if any” licence fee concession should be in place for older people from June 2020. The ONS classifies the BBC licence fee as a tax. Will the Minister point to the section in the royal charter that gives the BBC the power to levy taxes? He will recall that he said, on 29 March 2017:

“I reiterate that taxation is a matter for the elected Government”.—[Official Report, 29/3/17; col. 624.]


Does he still stand by that statement and will he join me in calling on the BBC to withdraw this disgraceful consultation?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The BBC is doing exactly what it agreed when the settlement was put in place in 2015. We agreed at that time to provide a continuous licence fee, increasing by inflation, for five years. That had never been done before. We agreed to close the iPlayer loophole, which was what it wanted. In return, the BBC agreed to take on this concession. However, we have been clear that we expect the BBC to continue with this important concession. It was agreed by the BBC, Parliament and the Government.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Speaking as one who declares an interest as I was 82 last Sunday, should the director-general not look at his own house? For instance, why should he not look at the Peacock report, which proposed that the BBC should take advertisements in certain circumstances? After all, the BBC World Service takes them and—your Lordships may study this—there are about three minutes of propaganda for forthcoming programmes in every hour of BBC programmes, ad nauseam.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The director-general of the BBC should be proud when he looks at himself in the mirror. The BBC is a national institution and the Government support it. We made a deal with it when the new charter was put in place. It is a £5 billion organisation and is more than capable of delivering on this agreement.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, in this age of multichannel provision, our public service broadcasters—not least the BBC—are crucial in ensuring the provision of high-quality, British programming and news that we can rely on. Yet if the BBC does not go ahead with cutting the over-75 licence fee concession, its own content will be dramatically cut. Why should the BBC be forced to make a social policy decision that should be the remit of government? If the Government want the fee concession for over-75s protected then surely they should pay for it, not the BBC.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Lord talks about news but other public service broadcasters have the same duty to provide impartial news. I completely agree with him that what the BBC produces is a benefit, and it is a tribute to it. Other public service broadcasters have the same duty but they do not have a £3.8 billion head start from the taxpayer.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I am not sure that the Minister answered my noble friend’s question. If it was a manifesto commitment of the Conservative Party that the licence fee concession would continue until 2022, why have the Government subcontracted it to the BBC to break that manifesto commitment? Does he regard the licence fee as a tax and, if so, do the Government subcontract taxes to other people?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I think that the noble Lord misunderstands the position. We made it absolutely clear to the BBC that we expect it to continue with this important concession, and in October the Secretary of State also made that clear to the House of Commons committee. However, the Digital Economy Act, which was passed before that, also made it clear that the Government retain the power to maintain the concession until 2020, which we will do, after which full responsibility will transfer to the BBC. Therefore, the settlement took place before the manifesto was written.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Would it not be good if the director-general of the BBC occasionally came to this House, of which he is a Member, to assist us in discussions of this kind?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am not sure that that would be helpful—for a number of reasons but mainly because it is very important that the BBC’s director-general, who is the editor-in-chief of the BBC, stays clear of politics as much as he can.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I do not think I am alone in struggling to understand exactly what the Minister is telling us. Can he confirm that, when the settlement with the BBC was made, it was made clear to it by the Government that it would receive the five-year funding uplift on condition that it continued to maintain the free licence for over-75s? If that is the case, effectively the BBC’s licence fee income was cut. Can he confirm that that is the case? If it is not, presumably the BBC has the autonomy to do as it pleases and determine the outcome of the licence for the over-75s.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Baroness is quite right: the BBC has the autonomy to do as it pleases. Responsibility in this area was handed over to it in the Digital Economy Act with Parliament’s agreement. So far as the first part of her question is concerned, it is true that that was agreed in the settlement, and that is why the director-general of the BBC said:

“The government’s decision here to put the cost of the over-75s on us has been more than matched by the deal coming back for the BBC”.

Gambling Industry

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Tuesday 27th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the sufficiency of current industry contributions to efforts to reduce gambling-related harm.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, protecting vulnerable people from harm is central to gambling regulation. Operators must prevent underage gambling and train staff to intervene if a person is in difficulty. They must provide information on accessing help. The Gambling Commission also requires a financial contribution to research, education and treatment. Our review set out measures to strengthen protections across the industry, as well as a system for funding support. Donations this year are well on track to meet targets.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

I thank the Minister for his reply and am glad that the Government will increase the remote gaming duty next year. But in a year in which Simon Stevens pointed out that problem gambling is costing the NHS between £260 million and £1.2 billion a year, and the gambling industry made a total return of £13.9 billion, is it not time that we moved away from the voluntary levy to a compulsory levy which significantly contributes to research and treatment?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, there are a number of issues there. First, the figures quoted by the right reverend Prelate apply to the total cost of gambling, not just to the NHS. Of course, he did not mention the other side of the equation, which is the £2.86 billion in gambling taxes, apart from national insurance, corporation and income tax, which the gambling industry raises to help pay for the NHS. We recognise the need for reliable evidence on the wider impact of gambling-related harm, so work is under way to bill this. On the funding itself, for treatment, it is our priority to strengthen the voluntary system and build our understanding of what is needed. We have always said that we want to see operators step up, and I am glad to say that donations are on track to meet GambleAware’s targets. If the actions to improve the voluntary system do not bring results, we will consider other options, but we do not consider it necessary at this stage.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, when I was responsible for gaming in the Home Office back in 1995, the rule was that firms could not do anything to stimulate demand. Casinos had a 48-hour membership and gambling companies were not even allowed to advertise in Yellow Pages. Given the disastrous consequences of this deregulation, with ads appearing on daytime television and in sport, is it not time that we reverted to when we had a workable and efficient policy?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, for most people—the vast majority of people—gambling is not a problem; problem gambling is less than 1%. But I take my noble friend’s point that, for a small number of people, gambling can be a problem, and advertising could contribute to it. There is no reliable evidence on the extent to which it contributes, but we are putting tough new guidance into advertising to protect vulnerable people, including children. A large advertising public service campaign is being put out to promote responsible gambling. But advertising is one of the things we are considering, so I shall take my noble friend’s point on board.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, on previous occasions when we have looked at gambling and fixed-odds betting terminals were considered, there was a perceptible measure of support for the rather humble measures we proposed, which have now been accepted. I suspect that the mandatory rather than the voluntary levy would command equal support from all Benches. Although I am repeating the Question asked by the right reverend Prelate, I ask again: how long do we have to wait for studies in an industry that generates an enormous amount of money—so much so that one person can have a pay rise of £45 million? It would not be onerous to ask for a mandatory rather than a voluntary levy, which I am sure is the next step that as a House we should responsibly be advocating.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The question is why you would want to introduce a mandatory levy. At the moment, GambleAware gets more than the money it asks for. It says it needs £10 million a year, and it is getting an extra £5 million from penalty payments, so it is getting more than it asks for. As I said, if we find that there is a need for more money and the voluntary system is not producing it, we will consider other options.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, I think the House will be somewhat surprised that the noble Lord is suggesting that more money is not needed. There are 430,000 problem gamblers in this country, and currently only 2% of them are getting help. Does the Minister not find it odd that we have a compulsory horse-based levy that brings in £70 million to help horses, and we have a voluntary levy that brings in £10 million to help people?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

It is a mistake to say that the racing levy is there to help horses, although a small proportion of it is for veterinary reasons. It is there to help the racing industry and the people who work in it. By the way, a lot of people complain about that levy too. We have asked the industry to contribute, voluntarily, to research, education and treatment. We have said that if it does not produce enough, we will look at other options. Just because the industry has a large gross gambling yield—not profit but yield, which is different and before payment of expenses—that does not mean that we should, for the sake of it, increase the levy and have a compulsory one.

Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Wednesday 21st November 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made yesterday in the other place by my honourable friend the Minister for Digital and the Creative Industries. The Statement is as follows:

“Mr Speaker, with permission, I would like to make a statement on the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation. The UK has a proud history of supporting the use of open data. Indeed, there has been a huge programme of work in recent years to make sure we are promoting the open and transparent use of data. The Government are in a privileged position, as we collect a vast quantity of high-quality data while delivering public services. As the UK moves rapidly towards a data-driven economy, we have an opportunity to improve decision-making in many areas.

The Government have already published over 44,000 datasets. This unprecedented openness has created many benefits. First, it has made the Government more accountable and transparent. Secondly, it can improve the effectiveness of public services. Thirdly, it has created the potential for new businesses to thrive. By making our data available to the public, we have been able to fuel businesses and applications that make life better and easier. All this has paid dividends.

We are now ranked joint first in the world on the open data barometer, an achievement of which we can justly be proud. While open data is something we must aspire to, we also need to use it in a safe and ethical manner. The rise of artificial intelligence-driven products and services have posed new questions that will impact on us all. What are the ethical implications of using technology to determine someone’s likelihood of reoffending?

Is it right to use a programme powered by AI to make hiring decisions? Can it ever be right to have an algorithm influence who should be saved in a car crash? These are no longer questions for science fiction but real questions that require clear and definite answers, where possible from policymakers. That is why we have established the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation, because ethics and innovation are not mutually exclusive. Strong ethics can be a driver of innovation. It is our intention that the centre become a world-class advisory body to make sure that data and AI deliver the best possible outcomes for society, in support of their ethical and innovative use.

Following a consultation over the summer on the activities and work of the new centre, we are pleased to publish our response today. This is the first body of its kind to be established anywhere in the world and represents a landmark moment for data ethics in the UK and internationally. Throughout the consultation, respondents recognised the urgent need for the centre and there was widespread support for its objectives: to advise government on the necessary policy and regulatory action and to empower industry through the development of best practice.

In turn, we can build public trust in data-driven technologies and make the most of the opportunities they present for society. We have announced that Roger Taylor will chair the board. Roger has a background in consumer protection, founded Dr Foster—a healthcare data company—and is a passionate advocate for using data to improve lives. I know that he will do an excellent job. We have today announced the board members who will support Roger in this essential work. The board will include: Lord Winston, a world-renowned expert in fertility and genetics; Kriti Sharma, vice-president of AI at Sage and a leading global voice on data ethics; and Dame Patricia Hodgson, who was chair of Ofcom and brings a wealth of experience of regulatory affairs.

The board will bring together some of our greatest minds and their immense and varied experience to tackle these important issues. Data is the fuel of any digital economy, and trust in that data is fundamental. As a nation we have always been pioneers and advocates of transparency and freedom, and we will keep applying these values as we look at how we can make the most of the data that is multiplying in scale and sophistication.

The great challenge of the digital age is to ensure that data is used safely, ethically and, where possible, transparently. If we do that, we can help to power new technologies that will make life better and solve issues that are currently of grave concern. This is truly within our grasp and if we work together, we can make it happen.

I commend my Statement to the House”.

I follow the Statement by saying that I think the House will be pleased to know that, in addition to the noble Lord, Lord Winston, the board will include my noble friend Baroness Rock and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford, who were members of the House of Lords Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. He was missed in the debate on Monday. I have had the benefit of reading the Government’s response to the consultation on the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation. I share the enthusiasm for the centre’s creation, as did the Select Committee, and, now, for the clarification of the centre’s role, which will be very important in ensuring public trust in artificial intelligence. I am also enthusiastic about the appointments—described, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, as “stellar” in the Government’s own press release. In particular, I congratulate Members of this House and especially the noble Baroness, Lady Rock, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford, who contributed so much to our AI Select Committee. I am sure that both will keep the flame of our conclusions alive. I am delighted that we will also see a full strategy for the centre emerging early next year.

I too have a few questions for the Minister and I suspect that, in view of the number asked by me and by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, he will much prefer to write. Essentially, many of them relate to the relations between the very crowded landscape of regulatory bodies and the government departments involved.

Of course¸ the centre is an interim body. It will eventually be statutory but, as an independent body, where will the accountability lie? To which government department or body will it be accountable? Will it produce its own ethics framework for adoption across a wide range of sectors? Will it advocate such a framework internationally, and through what channels and institutions? Who will advise the Department of Health and Social Care and the NHS on the use of health data in AI applications? Will it be the centre or the ICO, or indeed both? Will the study of bias, which has been announced by the centre, explore the development of audit mechanisms to identify and minimise bias in algorithms?

How will the centre carry out its function of advising the private sector on best practice, such as ethics codes and advisory boards? What links will there be with the Competition and Markets Authority over the question of data monopolies, which I know the Government and the CMA are both conscious of? In their consideration of data trust, will the government Office for Artificial Intelligence, which I see will be the responsible body, also look at the benefits of and incentives for hubs of all things? These are beginning to emerge as a very important way of protecting private data.

What links will there be with other government departments in giving advice on the application of AI and the use of datasets? The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, referred to lethal autonomous weapons, which emerged as a major issue in our debate on Monday. What kind of regular contact will there be with government departments—in particular, with the Ministry of Defence? One of the big concerns of the Select Committee was: what formal mechanisms for co-ordinating policy and action between the Office for Artificial Intelligence, the AI Council, the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation and the ICO will there be? That needs to be resolved.

Finally, the centre will have a major role in all the above in its new studies of bias and micro-targeting, and therefore the big question is: will it be adequately resourced? What will its budget be? In the debate on Monday, I said that we need to ensure that we maintain the momentum in developing our national strategy, and this requires government to will the means.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am tempted to say that I will write, but I will try to answer some of the questions, and I will write regarding some that I do not get around to. I was in at the beginning of the debate on AI and I listened to the noble Lord’s speech.

[Lord Clement-Jones]

My Lords, that is all that he needed to listen to.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Not everyone would agree with that, but I did indeed listen to it. I have read that AI is a joint responsibility with BEIS, and my noble friend Lord Henley coped more than adequately, so I do not think that I really was missed.

There was a great deal of support for this innovation—the centre—both in the response to the consultation and, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, in proceedings on the then Data Protection Bill, so I am grateful for that today, but I accept the very reasonable questions. On the centre’s independence as it stands now and its statutory establishment, I say that we have deliberately set this up as an advisory body so that it can consider some of the difficult issues that noble Lords have raised. Policy is the Government’s responsibility, so there should not be any confusion about who is held accountable for policy—and it is not the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation. When this has been established, when we have seen how it has worked and when we have addressed the questions of the crowded space that both noble Lords mentioned, it is our intention to put this on a statutory basis. Then we will see how it has worked in practice. When it comes to putting it on a statutory basis, I have no doubt that there will be lots of back and forth in Committee and things like that on the exact definitions and its exact role.

There are some differences from the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, although of course that was a particularly successful body. One of the main differences was that a lot of those things were considered in advance of the science, if you like, and before the science was put into place. With AI, it is here and now and operating, so we do not have a chance to sit back, think about it in theory and then come up with legislation or regulation. We are dealing with a moving target, so we want to get things going.

As far as I am aware—I will check and write to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson—the centre has no specific powers to demand information. That is, of course, something that we can look at when it comes to being on a statutory basis.

I am sorry that the application for membership by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, was not accepted. There can be only one reason: he spends so much time on the Front Bench that he would not have time, because we expect the directors to spend two to three days a month attending this, so it is a very large work commitment.

As noble Lords will know, the work plan includes two initial projects, which were announced in last year’s Budget: micro-targeting and algorithm bias. We expect the centre, in discussion with the Secretary of State, to come up with a work plan by spring 2019. As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, mentioned, there is a tension, if you like, between ethics and innovation, but we are very keen that it consider both because we have to be aware of the potential for innovation, which is constrained in some cases. We would not want a situation where the opportunities for AI for this country are avoided. As the report by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, made clear, there are tremendous opportunities in this sector. We are aware of the tension, but it is a good tension for the centre to consider.

Both noble Lords talked about the crowded space in this area. We expect the centre to produce memorandums of understanding to outline how it relates to bodies such as the AI Council, which has a slightly different focus and is more about implementation of the AI sector deal than considering the ethics of artificial intelligence. We understand that they need to work together and expect the centre to come back on that.

The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, asked about accountability. The centre will be accountable to the Secretary of State for the DCMS. That is clear. He will agree its work plan. Of course, in terms of independence, once he has established that work plan, what the centre says will not be up to him, so there is independence there. We included in our response that the Government will be expected to reply within six months, so there is a time limit on that. It will apply to all government departments, not just the DCMS. The Ministry of Defence and the department of health have obvious issues and the centre can provide advice to them as well.

The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, asked whether the centre, when it considers bias, would include audit mechanisms. It absolutely might. It is not really for us to say exactly what the centre will consider. In fact, that would be contrary to its independence, having been given the subject to think about. In our response we said some of the things that might be considered, such as audit mechanisms.

There is an obvious issue about competition, which the House of Lords Select Committee mentioned. Work is going on. The Chancellor commissioned the Furman review to look at that and we expect the centre to come up with a discussion on how it will work with the Competition and Markets Authority, but obviously competition is mainly to do with the Competitions and Markets Authority.

At the moment, the body is resourced by the DCMS. In the 2017 Budget, it was provided with £9 million in funding over three years. We expect that to be sufficient but, clearly, we will have to provide adequate resources to do an adequate job.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I thank the Minister for the Statement and his responses. I am delighted that one of my successors as Bishop of Oxford has been appointed to the centre’s board. I know that with his experience and background he will make a very valuable contribution to it.

Is there an academic moral philosopher on the board? I ask as a former member of the Nuffield Council on Bioethics and the HFEA. It was always thought valuable, particularly with the Nuffield Council on Bioethics, to have a philosopher or two on board. It is not that they will come up with a better answer than anybody else—their judgment is neither better nor worse than anybody else’s—but an academic philosopher can tease out unexamined assumptions. So many of these agreements and disagreements on ethics are about the assumptions that need to be teased out and looked at. I have not had a chance to look at the document yet, I am afraid, but perhaps I could ask that question.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am glad to say that there will be. Professor Luciano Floridi is Professor of Philosophy and Ethics of Information at the University of Oxford—so another Oxford man.

[Lord Maxton (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not correct that the centre’s name is the wrong way round? It ought to be the advisory committee on digital innovation and ethics, because the innovation will drive the ethics rather than the other way round.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The board of the centre will be able to cope with whichever way round the wording is. It will deal with the balance and the tensions between ethics and innovation—and indeed innovation and ethics.

[Baroness O’Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

My Lords, yesterday evening the British-American Parliamentary Group and Ditchley met to discuss these topics. It was an interesting meeting, but it did reveal how readily innovation drives ethics. I say this as an academic philosopher, and it is quite important. The innovation questions are of great importance, but they are not the only questions, and I hope that steps will be taken to ensure that there is suitable rigour in the analysis of the ethical issues. The debate is full of pitfalls and inadequacies, including phrases such as “communication ethics” and “data ethics”, which ultimately mean nothing. Ethics is about what you do: it is not about data and communication. So I hope that there will be room for that sort of rigour on this advisory—and ultimately statutory—body.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree with the noble Baroness. In dealing with modern technology, we often forget the very important point she makes. Ethics is about how you live your life and deal with things in a way that has a moral basis. I absolutely accept that, in dealing with modern technology and especially things such as AI, ethics is a very important component. That is precisely why they have also included not just technical people but parliamentarians and professional philosophers, to consider and to make sure that those aspects are given sufficient weight.

Social Media Services

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 12th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, that was brief but fun. As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, it is nice to have a sort of flashback to the many interesting debates we have had. Although not many noble Lords are in the Chamber, these are important issues and in a way I feel that I could answer the points made by all noble Lords by saying, “This is very important. I agree that the status quo is not acceptable. We understand that. The points raised will be actively considered. We have not made any final decisions and we will reach an answer in the White Paper”. I could then sit down, but I shall try to be a bit more reassuring and helpful than that.

The temptation is always to try to get the Minister to commit to things that he should not. However, the fact is that the White Paper is not finished and we have not made decisions in a lot of these cases. We are actively considering everything that has been brought up in this debate and we are certainly ready and willing to talk to all noble Lords. The noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, will have heard the Minister give evidence at the session of the Lords Communications Committee earlier today. She talked about these issues, and in a sense the noble Baroness is probably ahead of me. However, we are very happy to continue talking.

As I say, we will be publishing the White Paper on online harms this winter. Although the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said generously that perhaps we should suggest the spring, we mean the winter—I think we all know what winter means. That is the current plan and it will be a precursor to legislation if it is required. We will set out our plans to ensure that social media platforms take more responsibility for online harms, which is what we are all aiming for. It is a complex area and we are considering carefully all the options, including but not limited to a statutory duty of care and a regulator.

However, we have to bear in mind that the internet offers huge benefits. We sometimes spend our lives talking about the problems and the harms, but it is important to note that not only here in this country but in developing countries the internet makes a tremendous difference to growing economies, making us more productive and raising living standards. In many cases it enhances the quality of life. It is also true that the industry has taken significant steps with existing industry-led initiatives, in particular through the application of technology. We are not saying that it is perfect, which is why we are producing the White Paper. We know that in some cases legislation may be needed, but there are technological solutions and it would be wrong not to acknowledge that.

In part because of the influence of noble Lords and parliamentarians more widely, there has been a movement towards a “Think safety first” approach, which has been mentioned. In that, the safety considerations are embedded into the product development. For example, Facebook, Instagram and Apple have all recently brought in tools for users to monitor and limit their screen time. That shows the clear role that technology has to play in tackling online harms. However, we agree that more can be done and we will set out our plans in the White Paper to support the development and adoption of safety technologies, and more importantly to empower and educate users.

We have already said that as a Government we will bring forward legislation if that is necessary. We have pointed to a social media code of practice and transparency reporting as areas where we think that legislative action may be required. We are also exploring whether additional measures are needed. We know that there is public concern about a broad range of online activity ranging from terrorism to child sexual exploitation, along with children’s access to inappropriate but legal content. Of course, the boundary between the legal and the illegal is not always easy to define. We will set out a clear and coherent framework to tackle these issues in a proportionate and appropriate manner, but which importantly will also support the continued growth and innovation of the digital economy. We also do not want to stifle legitimate free speech or prevent innovation, where the UK is a significant global leader.

The White Paper will also address public concerns and ensure continued confidence in the digital economy. We know from a joint report by Ofcom and the ICO that eight out of 10 internet users have concerns about going online. Noble Lords will be aware that the Communications Committee, to which I have just referred, is undertaking an inquiry in this area and we look forward to its conclusions. We support and accept the range and openness of the debate taking place. A great deal of research is being done and we are engaging with industry as well. We have read a lot of the proposals which have been put forward but we are also engaging face to face with stakeholders. For example, the Home Secretary was in Silicon Valley just last week talking to tech companies with particular reference to child sexual exploitation as well as looking at the role of advertising, which was mentioned by the noble Baroness.

The problem with the duty of care model is that while in some cases it seems to be an easy and good answer to the problem, it is not as straightforward as it sounds and needs careful thinking through. We are not against it. We are certainly considering the different models of duty of care because it does not have a fixed meaning in English law. There are different areas, such as health and safety, environmental protection and common law; we are looking carefully at all those. Of course, that includes the model mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and others, which was put forward recently by Professor Woods and Mr Perrin at the Carnegie Trust. In fact, their proposal applies only to social media companies and focuses on the processes put in place by companies to protect users. We are certainly looking at that and have not written it off in any way.

That is not the only regulatory model that might be appropriate to tackle online harms. We are looking more broadly at a range of options and examples from a wide range of sectors. I cannot be more specific than that at the moment except to say that we are keeping an open mind. We are considering the whole spectrum, from self-regulation on the one hand to a duty of care, a regulator and prescriptive statutory regulation on the other; there are several ways in which that might be put in place. I acknowledge the point made by noble Lords that a duty of care has the benefit of an element of future-proofing, which is another thing we have to consider rather than specific statutory regulation.

The other factor to bear in mind is the international aspect of this. We are working closely with like-minded countries as we design solutions. We are among the leading countries in trying to tackle this issue. Obviously, we have looked at and are considering measures such as the e-safety commissioner in Australia, an ombudsman-like model that can issue fines. The possible problem with an ombudsman is that it is a complaints-based solution and things may need to be done quicker than that; we are looking at that. Similarly, the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, talked about the German rules on taking down illegal content. We think that there are possible conflicts there with EU law but, again, we have not written that off and we are studying it carefully.

I want to take up a number of specific questions. I will allow myself a little more time—not too much longer, do not worry—because we have a whole hour and there are only four of us. The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, asked about who is in the lead on this. The publication will be a joint effort between the DCMS and the Home Office. Despite what the noble Lord said about the lack of success, the Data Protection Act, which was a joint effort with the DCMS, worked well. Obviously, the wide range of harms that we are looking at are relevant to the Home Office and the DCMS; we are also working closely with other departments.

The digital charter is part of a rolling programme of work. The online harms White Paper is part of the digital charter, which we will continue to update and which includes things such as the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation Consultation, our age-verification work—that will come before your Lordships’ House very soon—and the White Paper itself.

Noble Lords have asked to whom companies owe a duty or responsibility. We think that platforms should be responsible for protecting their users from experiencing harms through their services. However, defining that in an online environment is complex. We are thinking carefully about the problem of how this might look in an online environment where half a billion people, say, are online, if we say that there is a responsibility in that environment. We have to look at the theory behind this as well as the practicalities. We are considering that.

How will we enforce compliance with whatever regulations we propose? We think that we will need a proportionate suite of graduated, effective sanctions, with the aim of securing future compliance and remedying the wrongs. That comes with a variety of challenges, such as international enforcement. We are considering regulation in other areas, including with international partners in forums such as the G20 and the OECD.

On the companies that are in the scope of the proposed regulatory framework, we are looking methodically at the platforms that will be affected and on which platform users are exposed to the greatest risk. We accept that looking at a risk-based approach would be sensible. That will include, but may not be limited to, social media companies because we want this to be future-proofed and not limited to today’s business models. We are exploring how we might develop a future-proofed approach. We will seek to take a proportionate approach depending on the size of businesses and the risks associated with their activities.

I was asked whether we are looking beyond platforms and about operating systems. We need to influence the development of new and emerging platforms. As part of the design process for any new website or app, all companies should actively ensure that they build a safe experience for their customers. We will promote a “think safety first” approach for all companies and in the forthcoming White Paper set out how we will work with industry to ensure that start-ups, SMEs and other companies have the practical tools and guidance they need.

As for harmonisation of legislation, we have said—and noble Lords have repeated it—that what is illegal offline should be illegal online. As has been mentioned, the Law Commission’s recent review of abusive and offensive online communications reported on the parity between legislation offline and online. It concluded that,

“for the most part … abusive online communications are, at least theoretically, criminalised to the same or even a greater degree than equivalent offline offending … Practical and cultural barriers mean that not all harmful online conduct is pursued in terms of criminal law enforcement to the same extent that it might be in an offline context”.

Therefore we welcome the second phase of the Law Commission’s review.

The scope of online harms in the White Paper has not been finally settled, but we are looking to address the full range of harms, from the clearly defined illegal to the legal but harmful. Boundaries between such harms are sometimes hard to define. We are taking a pragmatic approach. There is clearly a place for technology in educational efforts as well as legislation. We will set out a clear and coherent framework that tackles that.

On what I said on the previous Bill about the Secretary of State’s commitments on parity, safety by design, accountability and enforcement, I see no reason to detract from that, albeit we have a new Secretary of State. I have no reason to believe that anything has changed and we will certainly look at those questions.

I repeat to noble Lords that we are trying to keep a very open mind; it is not settled. We welcome all input from noble Lords, particularly those here tonight. We look forward to the Communications Committee’s report on safety on the internet.

Our approach will be guided by some key considerations, including the responsibilities that tech companies should have to prevent and protect against online harms, the importance of innovation to the digital sector, upholding a free and open internet, and the international scale of this challenge. We will set out the details of our approach this winter.

House adjourned at 8.27 pm.

Pornographic Websites: Age Verification

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 5th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Benjamin]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what will be the commencement date for their plans to ensure that age-verification to prevent children accessing pornographic websites is implemented by the British Board of Film Classification.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, we are now in the final stages of the process, and we have laid the BBFC’s draft guidance and the Online Pornography (Commercial Basis) Regulations before Parliament for approval. We will ensure that there is a sufficient period following parliamentary approval for the public and the industry to prepare for age verification. Once parliamentary proceedings have concluded, we will set a date by which commercial pornography websites will need to be compliant, following an implementation window. We expect that this date will be early in the new year.

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer. I cannot wait for that date to happen, but does he share my disgust and horror that social media companies such as Twitter state that their minimum age for membership is 13 yet make no attempt to restrict some of the most gross forms of pornography being exchanged via their platforms? Unfortunately, the Digital Economy Act does not affect these companies because they are not predominantly commercial porn publishers. Does he agree that the BBFC needs to develop mechanisms to evaluate the effectiveness of the legislation for restricting children’s access to pornography via social media sites and put a stop to this unacceptable behaviour?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I agree that there are areas of concern on social media sites. As the noble Baroness rightly says, they are not covered by the Digital Economy Act. We had many hours of discussion about that in this House. However, she will be aware that we are producing an online harms White Paper in the winter in which some of these issues will be considered. If necessary, legislation will be brought forward to address these, and not only these but other harms too. I agree that the BBFC should find out about the effectiveness of the limited amount that age verification can do; it will commission research on that. Also, the Digital Economy Act itself made sure that the Secretary of State must review its effectiveness within 12 to 18 months.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, once again I find this issue raising a dynamic that we became familiar with in the only too recent past. The Government are to be congratulated on getting the Act on to the statute book and, indeed, on taking measures to identify a regulator as well as to indicate that secondary legislation will be brought forward to implement a number of the provisions of the Act. My worry is that, under one section of the Digital Economy Act, financial penalties can be imposed on those who infringe this need; the Government seem to have decided not to bring that provision into force at this time. I believe I can anticipate the Minister’s answer but—in view of the little drama we had last week over fixed-odds betting machines—we would not want the Government, having won our applause in this way, to slip back into putting things off or modifying things away from the position that we had all agreed we wanted.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I completely understand where the noble Lord is coming from but what he said is not quite right. The Digital Economy Act included a power that the Government could bring enforcement with financial penalties through a regulator. However, they decided—and this House decided—not to use that for the time being. For the moment, the regulator will act in a different way. But later on, if necessary, the Secretary of State could exercise that power. On timing and FOBTs, we thought carefully—as noble Lords can imagine—before we said that we expect the date will be early in the new year,

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that good health and sex education might be a way to counter some of the damaging effects? Can the Government make sure that is in place as soon as possible, so that this strange fantasy world is made slightly more real?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Lord is of course right that age verification itself is not the only answer. It does not cover every possibility of getting on to a pornography site. However, it is the first attempt of its kind in the world, which is why not only we but many other countries are looking at it. I agree that sex education in schools is very important and I believe it is being brought into the national curriculum already.

[The Earl of Erroll (CB)]

Why is there so much wriggle room in section 6 of the guidance from the DCMS to the AV regulator? The ISP blocking probably will not work, because everyone will just get out of it. If we bring this into disrepute then the good guys who would like to comply probably will not; they will not be able to do so economically. All that was covered in British Standard PAS 1296, which was developed over three years. It seems to have been totally ignored by the DCMS. You have spent an awful lot of time getting there, but you have not got there.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

One of the reasons this has taken so long is that it is complicated. We in the DCMS, and many others, not least in this House, have spent a long time discussing the best way of achieving this. I am not immediately familiar with exactly what section 6 says, but when the statutory instrument comes before this House—it is an affirmative one to be discussed—I will have the answer ready for the noble Earl.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the possession of a biometric card by the population would make the implementation of things such as this very much easier?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

In some ways it would, but there are problems with people who either do not want to or cannot have biometric cards.

Armistice Day: Centenary

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 5th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, we have had a most moving, measured and dignified debate and I am most grateful to all noble Lords across the House for their contributions, which appropriately reflected the gravity of the subject under discussion. I thank noble Lords for their kind words about the efforts of DCMS. The credit absolutely belongs to the officials in the department, whose energy has been remarkable, even to the extent of being hospitalised on one occasion. This was not due to some ghastly accident, but was actually due to bedbugs: there was an infestation in one of the hotels they were staying in. Such is life in the Department of Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

I think the speeches this afternoon and this evening stood on their own merits and need no summary from me, even if I were capable of giving one, so I hope that noble Lords will forgive me if I do not pick out and comment on all individual speeches. To me, a number of themes came through. The first, mentioned by many noble Lords, is that of India and the contribution made by soldiers from the Indian subcontinent, of many religions, who came to our aid. I said in my opening remarks that we have taken care to recognise the participation of all our Commonwealth allies. I hope that I can provide reassurance to the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, and my noble friend Lord Sheikh about some of the things that have taken place which have recognised that. Much of the Government’s wider programme reflected that contribution, as I said.

There were examples such as “The Unremembered”, delivered by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, which told some of the lesser-known stories of those who volunteered, such as the Indian Labour Corps. In 2016, 14-18 NOW produced the “Doctor Blighty” exhibition in Brighton, a spectacular light projection showing the experience of Indian troops recuperating at the Royal Pavilion Military Hospital that I was very pleased to see. I also managed to attend the “Stories of Sacrifice” exhibition in Manchester, specifically marking the contribution of Muslim soldiers in the First World War and delivered by the British Muslim Heritage Centre. We tried to include representatives, both culturally through 14-18 NOW, as I said before, and through specific events, not only nationally but in many local events around the country.

Another theme that registered with me and was repeated in many speeches was learning the lessons of the war and the incompleteness of the peace. I think we all agree with that, even if we may not all agree on the lessons. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, has given us an excellent starter for 10. What this leads to is the question of legacy and what will be left behind after this 1914 period. We decided early on that we were going to stick with the two key dates, 1914 and 1918, but we hope that there will be a legacy. I hope that it may reassure noble Lords that, according to the Government’s recent Taking Part survey, over 70% of people asked said that the centenary events had helped them to understand what was experienced by people who lived at the time of the war. We are trying to build on this success. There are a number of projects, brought about as part of the centenary commemorations, which will continue to provide educational and cultural benefits beyond the centenary period.

For example, the Heritage Lottery Fund has awarded more than £96 million to more than 2,200 First World War projects, many at a local level. The Heritage Lottery Fund will continue to support projects that help communities engage with and learn more about their First World War heritage. These include such things as the First World War Memorials Programme, a Historic England project that has added 2,500 war memorials to the National Heritage list for England and repaired more than 400 war memorials in the UK. My noble friend Lord Black and I have already mentioned the Imperial War Museums. Their Lives of the First World War project is an online resource which records the stories of individuals from across Britain and the Commonwealth who served in uniform or worked on the home front.

Through this project, and the refurbishment of its First World War galleries, which he mentioned, Imperial War Museums—which was of course founded in the middle of the First World War—has been a key partner to the Government over the centenary period. It was also intimately involved in the 14-18 NOW project with Peter Jackson in digitising and colouring World War I films. I recommend the programme “They Shall Not Grow Old”, which is on BBC2 at 9.30 on 11 November. Anyone who has seen it will know that by taking old World War I films, digitising them and colourising them, an amazing change has been made—it makes it appear as if you were there.

The Government have supported a number of other projects. This includes £40 million for the First World War Centenary Cathedral Repairs Fund and the £5.3 million battlefield tours project, which allowed nearly 6,000 students and teachers to visit the battlefields. Over 1,700 schools have taken part and I am delighted that the Chancellor found another £1 million to secure the continuation of this legacy project.

However, I take on board that we are not talking about just education or raising awareness, and that we ought to consider that we may be on the edge of another, potentially very dangerous, shift in the global order. I will make some exceptions here and mention the speeches of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, and the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, as well as those of my noble friends Lady Helic and Lord Balfe. As politicians, we must think about the lessons of the past in relation to our current position in the world, and the future policy that that entails, all within a moral dimension. I will certainly reread those speeches, along with many others.

On a different topic, no debate on this subject would be complete without mentioning the work of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Many thousands of casualties from the British Empire are buried in some 23,000 CWGC sites in more than 150 countries around the world. These moving and sensitively maintained sites are a permanent reminder of enormous sacrifices. In 2017, the commission launched the centenary internship, which was supported and funded by a Libor grant from the Government.

It is striking that the First World War still has the power to engage us, young and old alike. It lives with us daily in so many ways: in memorials, in our culture, in our family lore and in our national psyche. We now know—this has been mentioned by many noble Lords—that the Armistice was not the end of the conflict. The challenges of the peace negotiations, the birth of new nations and the all too brief hiatus between the wars were all still to come. Despite that, it is right that we recognise that 11 November 1918 was a monumental moment in the history of the United Kingdom, her Commonwealth and her allies.

Surprisingly, in uncertain times, the First World War can still unite us. It brings us together in awe and horror, respect and gratitude. This is a war which started over a century ago yet it seems almost tangible and within our grasp. There is no way we can make amends. We have no recourse to change history to prevent the bloodshed, nor can we ignore the scars. The facts will never change: millions of lives were ended, millions of families were torn apart, and the world was never the same again.

However, I firmly believe that we can tell ourselves, and future generations, that over the last four years we have saluted those who served, and we have done justice to their bravery. Bearing in mind the words of the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, I am certain that, for years to come, we will remember them.

Motion agreed.

Armistice Day: Centenary

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 5th November 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House takes note of the centenary of the Armistice at the end of the First World War.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, it is a privilege to open this debate, as it has been a privilege to be the Minister responsible for the First World War commemorations. The last four years of First World War centenary commemorations have both reflected and galvanised the nation’s desire to honour those who sacrificed so much for our freedom, while also helping people to understand and connect with the experiences of our forebears.

In six days’ time, on the centenary of the Armistice, the Government will conclude these important commemorations, while inspiring, we hope, individuals and communities to continue to learn about the impact and legacy of the war. On Sunday, the nation will, as usual, pause to remember all those who died during the First World War and in every conflict since. But we will also give thanks for the end of that war, and to all those who returned to their families. We will reflect on the price which was paid and continued to be paid generations after the first shots were fired in 1914—shots which were followed by a war so bloody, and on such an unprecedented, industrial scale, that even today it is difficult to comprehend.

There can be no doubt that the First World War is inescapably linked in the nation’s collective mind to death and suffering. Over the centenary, we have reflected on the sacrifice, bloodshed and horror of war. But it is also right that on this historic date we recognise the importance of a hard-won victory. That victory was due in no small part to the significant contribution of our allies from the Commonwealth and beyond. We have worked with them throughout the centenary period to mark some of the key battles and campaigns. On 4 August 2014, events were held in Glasgow, Westminster Abbey and Saint-Symphorien, Belgium, to commemorate the outbreak of the war. Later, my department led the delivery of emotionally charged international events to mark the centenaries of the Gallipoli campaign and the battles of Jutland, the Somme and Passchendaele. Tens of thousands of people with familial or emotional connections to these events joined members of the Royal Family, diplomats and senior military figures, along with representatives of our allies and our former enemies. Millions more watched on television.

In August of this year, I attended a service in Amiens Cathedral to commemorate the Battle of Amiens. This battle was one of the turning points of the war, and heralded the start of the Hundred Days Offensive which lasted from Amiens to the Armistice. Our international partners, the Governments of France, Canada, Australia and—for the first time—the United States, helped us to deliver this event. In an echo of the successful coalition of 100 years earlier, it was a moving and memorable experience. We were pleased to welcome His Excellency Joachim Gauck, former President of the Federal Republic of Germany. The German Government have been hugely supportive of our commemorations, and I am delighted that the current German President, His Excellency Frank-Walter Steinmeier, has accepted Her Majesty’s Government’s invitation in this special year to lay a wreath at the Cenotaph next Sunday and to attend the event at Westminster Abbey that evening. That spirit of friendship and reconciliation was also reflected in our commemorations of the Gallipoli campaign, where we welcomed the participation of the Turkish Government and armed forces.

These high-profile ceremonial events have, importantly, been complemented by an extensive programme of cultural and educational activities. Our stated themes, as set out by the then Prime Minister David Cameron in 2012, were remembrance, youth and education. Indeed, youth has been a key theme of the centenary programme since it was announced in 2012. All the Government’s First World War programmes have been designed to engage children and young people, including, for example, school battlefield tours, the Great War school debate series, and the 14-18 NOW cultural programme. Schools and organisations working with young people can also join the Imperial War Museum’s centenary partnership and get involved in events taking place near them. Young people from the National Citizen Service, the National Youth Choir of Scotland and the National Youth Choir of Great Britain had prominent roles in our commemorative events in 2017 and 2018.

The Government established the 14-18 NOW cultural programme in 2012 to work with artists in order to tell new stories through the mediums of culture and art. We have since seen the emergence of a new model for learning about heritage and the complexities of conflict through the arts with, we hope, an important legacy, especially in connecting young people with the centenary. 14-18 NOW has engaged more than 35 million people in the centenary, including 7.5 million young people under the age of 25. In doing so, it created new memories and helped explain the nature and impact of the war to people from all walks of life and of all ages. Works by an extraordinarily diverse range of artists from the UK and abroad have helped to highlight the contributions to the First World War of people from many different countries and backgrounds. Poets from the Caribbean and the Caribbean diaspora, visual artists from India and Bangladesh, performers from South Africa and musicians from Syria, among others, have all highlighted in their different ways the global reach and impact of war.

In addition to large-scale national events, we have sought to highlight the enormous contribution made by those Commonwealth nations who came to Britain’s aid. Some 2.5 million men and women from the Commonwealth and Empire answered the call to fight, with 200,000 laying down their lives. They left their homes in the Indian subcontinent, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Newfoundland, Africa and the Caribbean to serve the Allied cause. Commonwealth nations will rightly be represented at the Cenotaph and in Westminster Abbey on Sunday. I said “men and women”, and we do not forget the role of women in the First World War. All government commemorative events have recognised the role that women played in the war effort, be it as factory workers, nurses on the Western Front and at home, or as loved ones sending letters to the battlefield. Of course, last year marked the historic landmark of the first women getting the vote in this country.

Nor have we forgotten the role of Ireland. When the then Prime Minister and the then Taoiseach met in 2016, they reaffirmed that the UK and Irish Governments would continue to mark key First World War events in a spirit of mutual respect, inclusiveness and friendship. This was demonstrated in the shared approach to the Battle of Messines Ridge, commemorated on 7 June 2017, which was attended by the Duke of Cambridge and the then Taoiseach, Enda Kenny.

On 11 November 1918 the news of the signing of the Armistice was celebrated on these shores with music, street parties and parades, and with the ringing of church bells. On Remembrance Sunday at the Cenotaph this year, when we salute all those who died in conflicts since the First World War, we will share our usual sombre moment of remembrance. We will, of course, have the two-minute silence. We will reflect on what we have learned since 1918 and on the damaged lives of those who are affected by war.

The 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 was an iconic moment in our history. In writings and recordings, soldiers often struggled to articulate how they felt at the moment the guns stopped firing. They reported a mixture of joy, relief, grief and often a sort of exhausted numbness—but there was also, for many, a sense of achievement and justice at what they understandably regarded as a significant and, despite everything, popular victory. Accordingly, after the service of remembrance we will move toward a spirit of thanksgiving for victory and toward the care and celebration of, and concern for, those who returned. And let us not forget the perhaps underreported fact that 88% of those who fought for the Allied cause returned home alive, if not always whole in body or mind.

So this year, the traditional Royal British Legion parade of veterans will be followed by an additional procession of 10,000 members of the public who wish to pay personal tribute and give thanks to the generation who served. The procession will be complemented by the nationwide ringing of bells from 12.30 pm, and at various times throughout the rest of the world—often the very same bells which rang out after four years of silence 100 years ago. In the evening, there will be a national service of thanksgiving in Westminster Abbey. Her Majesty the Queen and the President of Germany will be joined by guests who have contributed so much to commemorative projects of all types in communities across the country since 2014. Similar services will take place in Llandaff Cathedral, Cardiff, Glasgow Cathedral and St Anne’s Cathedral, Belfast.

I will take this opportunity to pay tribute to the work of the devolved Administrations to ensure that the particular contributions of Scottish, Welsh and Irish soldiers have been properly recognised. They have worked closely with us throughout the centenary period to complement our national commemorations and ensure that every part of the United Kingdom has had opportunities to engage with the stories and experiences of the war. In recent months, there has been an unprecedented amount of locally organised commemorative activity up and down the country, as the nations come together as never before to remember the events of a century ago.

The Government have been expertly supported throughout the centenary programme by its advisory group, consisting of highly regarded historians, former senior members of the Armed Forces, parliamentarians, writers, academics, journalists and others, some of whom are participating in today’s debate. I thank them all for devoting their time to advise us. I also extend my thanks to the Prime Minister’s special representative for First World War commemorations, Dr Andrew Murrison MP, whose work since 2013 in guiding these commemorations has been exceptional. Finally, the commemoration team at DCMS has organised events both here and abroad, and showed diplomacy, energy, sensitivity and enthusiasm that were a credit to this country. I thank them all.

I hope that it is not disrespectful to say that, although there have been moments of worry and emotion, I have enjoyed taking part in the last half of the four-year commemoration. In that vein, I greatly look forward to listening to your Lordships’ speeches today. I beg to move.

Public Sector Television Content

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Thursday 25th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure that public sector television content is easily discoverable regardless of how viewers access such content.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government recognise the value and importance of high-quality public service content and the need for it to be widely accessible to viewers. That is why, in the Digital Economy Act 2017, the Government required Ofcom to publish a report looking at the ease of finding PSB content across all platforms. Ofcom published its first report on the discoverability of PSB content in July and has consulted on proposed changes to the linear EPG code and the future of the prominence regime. The consultation closed on 5 October. We look forward to its findings in due course.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Given Ofcom’s clear support for a legislative update, does the Minister not agree that there is an urgent need to modernise the rules that help to guarantee prominence for PSB linear and associated on-demand services? Global technology players should not be the gatekeepers to what we watch. They have little interest in supporting UK content and culture or ensuring that the news they supply access to is accurate. Unless the Government act, they will bury public service TV.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I pretty much agree with that. The Secretary of State said last month that,

“the government will support PSBs to ensure they continue to thrive, and stay prominent, as part of a healthy, sustainable and dynamic media landscape”.

If Ofcom, which is the expert on this, makes it clear that there is a problem that needs fixing by legislation, we will look to bring that forward.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I have the same quote from September 2018 in front of me, and I am delighted to hear that the Government are aware of the urgency of this. Three months before that report, Ofcom indicated that legislation would be necessary to achieve the objectives we have all agreed about. Post Brexit, where will such legislation figure in the queue of legislation ganging up on us, in order to do justice to the sense of urgency that has already been accepted?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I would like to say that it will have prominence, but obviously I cannot give a guarantee today. Brexit will involve a lot of legislation. The fact is, we understand the urgency, that the media landscape is changing and how technology is changing. The old linear EPG is not fit for purpose. It is not for me to say where it will fit in the legislative programme because that is not my responsibility, but we understand the issues. We are waiting for the Ofcom report following its consultation, which has now finished; I believe it is due early in 2019.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, will the Minister give an assurance to the tens of thousands of Welsh speakers living in England that the Welsh language channel S4C will be afforded reasonable prominence on the electronic programme guide?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is likely to be the case, but we are obviously waiting for Ofcom’s report. However, I understand the point, and I think it will have suitable prominence.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

I refer to the register of interests. Is the Minster aware that the concerns reflected in the noble Baroness’s Question are shared by many on these Benches as well? Can he send a strong message to Ofcom about the need for speed, given the pace of technological change, which is overtaking us every day? When does he think the Government will be able to announce concrete progress on this road?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I have outlined that things are moving fast. The consultation finishes on 5 October. Ofcom has said it will report at the beginning of 2019. Then, as the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, alluded to, it is up to the business managers—if Ofcom decides that legislation is necessary; you will have to look at the report. This is a complex area. The new technologies do not make it simple. It is not just like an old, linear EPG. But we understand the urgency and we know that the commercial interests do make it difficult for public service broadcasters. The key is that we support public service broadcasting.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, we have heard from my noble friend and other noble Lords about the urgent need to change the EPG regulations, but is there not another aspect? The chief executive of Channel 4 has pointed out that there is no regulation at all of so-called smart voice search controls, which are increasingly being introduced by the major television manufacturers. That aspect is barely covered by the Ofcom report. Will the Minister guarantee that it will be covered in any new regulations?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I accept, as I said before, that this is a complex area. We are talking about not only linear, satellite and aggregators, but about TV and videos which are just on the internet. As noble Lords will know, as well as looking at the prominence regime, we are looking at online harms generally. We expect to publish a White Paper on that in the winter.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

Should any further evidence be required, was not the powerful support for and huge importance of the five main channels demonstrated by the colossal viewing figures during the World Cup? Some 26.5 million people, 40% of the population, were watching this listed event. It is a long time since the last review. Is it not time for another review of the listed events, which have been steadily eroded over recent decades, because they are hugely important to and popular in the country as a whole, and very unifying, in that people talk about them?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I completely agree about the unifying aspect of these events, and it is worth bearing in mind what the noble Lord has said. We should not be under the illusion that the PSB viewing figures are unimportant. Together, the PSBs command a 55% share of all TV viewing, and they spend £2.6 billion a year on original UK content.

Online Anonymity

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, online anonymity is an important part of a free and open internet, but being anonymous online does not give anyone the right to abuse others. The Government have made it clear that social media companies should have processes in place to tackle anonymous abuse on their platforms. The joint DCMS/Home Office White Paper will be published in the winter, detailing legislative and non-legislative measures to tackle online harms and setting clear responsibilities for tech companies.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. I am sure that, like me, he is appalled at the way electronic media has been used to send threats of death as well as physical and often sexual violence to people, and disproportionately to women. We know the possibility now exists to track down the senders of such messages. Can the Minister assure me that in the review currently being undertaken, serious consideration will be given to legislation providing for the unmasking and criminal prosecution of those sending hate messages?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, my noble friend raises an important point, and of course we all agree that online abuse is distressing and unacceptable. The issue is where this abuse becomes criminal and unacceptable. There is a balance to be struck. As far as anonymity is concerned, when it becomes criminal behaviour there are means by which people who do this anonymously can be traced. In fact, the vast majority of people who think they are doing these things anonymously are actually traceable. It is only the most devious and malevolent people who use technology to avoid being traced, but they are a very small minority. As far as the online harm review is concerned, we will be looking at a number of online harms, including abuse, and looking at where legislation or other non-legislative measures are necessary.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to be helpful for a change, and I hope that I shall get a positive response from the Minister. Can I pass on a suggestion that I picked up, along with the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe? Will the Minister consider following the example of some other countries in Europe and appoint an internet ombudsman?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am grateful for that positive suggestion, which we will certainly consider. I do not know what our position on that is; I am not completely clear about what the role of an internet ombudsman would be. Normally where questions about how to regulate the internet are concerned, they become much more complicated than they first appear.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

Will the Minister take this chance to confirm that the liberal principle, that you can do what you like until it affects somebody else, will be written into any further legislation? Will the Government make sure that that is a key consideration? If they do, much of the concern will go away and reassurance will be given.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

“Do as you would be done by” is a sensible basis for progressing. However, there are people who would not subscribe to that—I think “evil” is the correct word for them—and we have to take those into account. The Law Commission is looking at the body of law which allows the authorities to trace people to make sure that it is effective. It will publish its first report at the beginning of November. We will make sure that the law is capable of pursuing those who will not follow the precept mentioned by the noble Lord.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, in such instances as we are imagining in a Question like this, there are the individuals who, under the cloak of anonymity, use the internet for purposes that may be legitimate or not, but there are also the platforms that host those messages. I believe that in Germany a mechanism is used to make it mandatory on the part of platforms to shut down harmful messages within a certain time beyond which fines are imposed and measures taken. Might the Minister and Government consider such a device?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Lord is right. I believe that the law in Germany is that one has to take down abusive content within eight hours once the host has been informed of it. There is some doubt whether that complies with EU law. Nevertheless, it is something we will look at, because the social media code of practice also includes such measures, which at the moment are voluntary. Many of the large and well-known media sites try to comply with such things; the problem is that new sites appear and gain huge scale very quickly and do not always behave in the same way. The whole point of the White Paper which will be published in the winter is to look at areas where we might need legislation.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, we seem to take it as read that anonymity is a necessary and virtuous element of the web. Should we not question that assumption? It seems the only real necessity for it is to allow people in a totalitarian state to challenge their Government; otherwise, I cannot see why in a free and open society we should not have free and open communication. People would then be shamed out of the terrible conduct that is now going on.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I say with all due respect that I do not think that it is quite as simple as my noble friend suggests. For example, in an abusive relationship, should a woman—it is usually but not always women—not be able to ask for advice and have discussions with other people anonymously? Similarly, people could report crime anonymously. There are occasions where being able to go online anonymously may be a good thing.