Polish Jewish Holocaust Victims: Stolen Property

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 25th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Deech]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of progress made at the International Terezin Declaration Conference in November 2022 towards securing from the government of Poland (1) restitution, (2) compensation, or (3) commemoration, of property stolen from Polish Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, it is this Government’s assessment that there has been no progress on these important issues in Poland itself following legislation passed in 2020 which closed the door to any restitution or compensation claims. However, we continue to urge the Polish Government to take steps to ensure that claims are addressed. My noble friend Lord Pickles, the UK Special Envoy for Post-Holocaust Issues, raised this in a meeting with the Polish ambassador on 3 August. He will raise it again during his visit to Poland this week.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

Continuing the theme of breaches of human rights, Poland is the only modern European country not to fulfil its moral and legal duty in relation to property. I have been asking this question for 14 years: asking the Government to take action on behalf of thousands of dispossessed victims, both Jewish and non-Jewish, and Poland has responded by putting more and more obstacles in the way of claims by legislating against them and even making it an offence to discuss Poland’s involvement—if it was—in the Holocaust. New Prime Minister Tusk promises to restore the rule of law and take Poland forward to liberal democracy, so, rather than just attending conferences with supporters, will the Government reopen direct negotiations with Prime Minister Tusk and raise at the Council of Europe Poland’s human rights failure to honour the obligation to restore property? It is a stain on Poland’s record.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will also recognise, as I did when I was preparing for this particular Question, exactly how her sentiments were similar to my sentiments, in that I have had to respond on a number of occasions in different ministerial portfolios on this question. The new Government are being formed. Obviously, the results are still being taken forward and different parties and alliances are coming together. The clear indication is very much that Mr Tusk may well emerge in forming the new Government. We will of course continue to prioritise it.

I would say to the noble Baroness that it is not just about attending meetings or conferences. The noble Baroness will know of the direct leadership of my noble friend on this issue. We take a strong stand on the issue of property restitution, in line with our unwavering commitment to supporting Holocaust survivors and families, and we will continue to do so in the months and years ahead.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, three years ago, the noble Baroness raised the question of the US legislation, and the Minister gave a sort of equivocal reply then. Clearly, this is something that should be reported on a regular basis. I ask the Minister to examine what the US was able to do in 2017, five years ago, and ensure that this Parliament can take up its responsibilities. We should not forget that the declaration requires us to do something; it is not simply a matter left to Poland.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, equally, the noble Lord will recognise, first of all, that I agree with his sentiments, but the Terezin Declaration was signed by 47 countries. It puts obligations on each country, including us, and I have given assurance again today about the importance of restitution and the United Kingdom Government’s position on this. We will also have a moment of focus next year when we take on the presidency of the IHRA, which will allow us again to prioritise this particular issue. Of course, we look at countries and the legislation they have proposed. Let us not forget also that Poland has signed this declaration. It is of course non-binding: nevertheless, I assure the noble Lord that we are looking at all avenues to see how we can make the case most effectively. One hopes that the new Government in Poland will reflect on their responsibilities again.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the persistence of the noble Baroness. The Commission for Looted Art in Europe, whose work I commend, has been lobbying very hard for the implementation of the legal agreements that have been made. There has been European Union legislation, which Poland should be held to account to implement. What mechanisms are there when it comes to the United Kingdom, not only for public collections to make sure that they are properly audited, but also the private sector trade, sometimes far too regrettable, in looted goods? What mechanisms are there within the TCA with the European Union that we negotiated that will ensure that there are full audit trails for any goods? When we are negotiating bilateral trade agreements going forward, I have not yet seen any mechanisms in place through which this will be able to be reported on. I am very happy to discuss this separately with trade Ministers, but this surely is an area where there should be no loopholes.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord about identifying where we can strengthen our legislation and legislative approach. Also, when it comes to issues of agreements, I will follow that up with our colleagues in the Department for Business and Trade. The noble Lord makes a more general point about how we can hold countries also to their responsibilities. One does hope for this. As I said, it is a non-binding declaration: nevertheless, the countries that have signed up have taken action. When it has come to issues of culture and books—there was a particular issue with the Library—we ourselves as a Government have ensured that those artefacts are fully protected and sustained, and indeed, where we can find true ownership, are returned.

[Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, after years and years of pressing Polish Administrations to move on this issue, as Poland is the only country that has not in Europe, out of those discussions the Government must have some idea of what objections the Poles have got to acceding to their obligations. I wonder whether the Minister could enlighten the House and tell us what the arguments are that Poland is putting forward and has done over past decades as to why it refuses to accept its obligations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, many agreements were signed after the Second World War. Often, different Governments in Poland have sought to point to these issues having been settled. This declaration makes sure that the legacy that remains is kept at the forefront of Governments’ minds; as I said in my Answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, Poland passed legislation to the contrary in 2020. Of course, it remains at the behest of the Polish Government to look at legislation once again. There is a new Government in place and we will certainly once again make the case to them directly.

Israel/Gaza

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House takes note of the situation in Israel/Gaza.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the importance and timeliness of this debate is self-evident. The number of speakers is testament to not just the strength of feeling in your Lordships’ House but to the deep insight, wisdom and expertise. I am sure that, over the next few hours, as we listen carefully to each and every contribution, we will hear differing perspectives; we will have differing insights; at times, we will have, I am sure, a divergence of views and opinions. But what defines an effective, strong, resilient and progressive democracy is its openness, its ability to debate in a reasoned and sharing manner, respecting contrarian opinion, and then move forward in the best interests. I know for a fact that noble Lords speaking today will do so from a degree of principled passion on a particular issue. I am sure that today’s debate will also inform the Government, who are navigating this crisis which, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said, in all my time as a Minister is perhaps—no, not perhaps; it is—the most testing and challenging issue that we face. I am sure that many will reflect that sentiment in their contributions.

I take us back to 7 October. It was a Saturday—Shabbat—and the evening before had changed the trajectory not just of Israel but of many commentators, reporters, Governments and perspectives, as well as the many within Israel whose lives would never be the same. The attacks in Israel on 7 October not only shocked a country, they shocked the world. As His Majesty’s Government have made clear repeatedly, the United Kingdom, at that time and today—I am sure that I speak for all noble Lords—stands with Israel, a nation in mourning.

I am a Muslim by faith, as all noble Lords know, and on hearing of the death of any person, the prayer we recite is:

“Inna Lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji-un”,


simply translated as “To God we belong and to God we return”. When we see the innocent lives taken that day, we pray for those souls. I know that people of all faiths and none were shocked by the inhumanity of the brutal murder of so many innocent people in Israel. Therefore, we should, irrespective of faith, community, belief and religion, condemn unequivocally the terror attacks committed by Hamas against Israel and, indeed, many international citizens. Simply put, these attacks were driven by hatred.

We are also clear—this is important, and I hope that during today’s debate it will echo from this Chamber—that it is Hamas, the proscribed terrorist organisation, that our focus is on. It is Hamas that is responsible for that violence, not the Palestinian people or the Palestinian Authority. It is Hamas that is responsible for those abhorrent acts of terror.

The ramifications of that attack continue to unfold, sadly and tragically, as I stand before your Lordships today. When we look at the sheer scale of the human cost, it is sobering. As I look behind me to noble Lords on my own Benches, and particularly towards the Bishops’ Benches—I am delighted that we are joined by voices today who will speak from a deep insight into the issues of what many of us of Abrahamic faiths term the Holy Land, which is called that for a reason—and then I look opposite me, to my side, to my right and left, and I know that all noble Lords are very much focused on not just that tragedy but the human cost that was suffered. In Israel itself, over 1,400 people were killed. When we reflect on the history of Israel in the last 75 years, we see that this was the most lethal attack against it.

There were some who drew comparisons with the shock and horrors of the Holocaust, yet that was then and this is now, with the brutality of an appalling act of terror. We should not for a moment be distracted. Again, as I look around, I remember the tragic events of 7/7 right here in the UK, as many noble Lords do. We can never allow terror attacks to disrupt the incredible diversity and strength of our nation, which is a united United Kingdom when it comes to issues of terrorism. I pay tribute to many noble Lords across this Chamber who have not only consistently raised their voices but come together in a voice of unity against terror. I hope —indeed, I believe this will be the case—that that voice of unity will again resonate from this Chamber today.

The attacks were both indiscriminate and unconscionable. Those missing come from over 40 countries, including the United Kingdom. I had a meeting just before I came into the Chamber, along with my dear and right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, James Cleverly. We were with some of the relatives of those who were killed or remain missing—being held hostage in Gaza. I thank them for sharing their important stories, but the significance of their testimonies, as the information is still being shared, also reflected that the youngest person being held hostage is as young as nine months and the eldest of those who shared their testimony about the people being held—the eldest in that incredible group of people who we met—is 93. The pain and unbearable torment they are suffering will, I am sure, stay with them, but it is also, rightly, reflected in the thinking of policymakers. We stand with Israel during its time of challenge and we are working with Israel to support the families who are suffering this pain.

While the picture is extremely bleak, I am sure that all noble Lords will join me in welcoming the release of two hostages in Gaza yesterday. But, as the Prime Minister made clear in his Statement in the other place yesterday, the UK will continue to do everything in its power, working with all our partners, to free those held hostage and to bring those British nationals home. I acknowledge the strong co-operation that we are receiving from key partners, including countries such as Egypt and Qatar, which are playing important roles in this respect.

Since that terror attack, a violent and vicious sequence of events has unfolded that continues to reverberate across the region and further afield. We have seen, as the Prime Minister said only yesterday, 4,000 Palestinian deaths in Gaza, and a growing and already challenging humanitarian catastrophe. Many people, right now, are likely to still be trapped under rubble. Let me be clear—and I hope I speak for every noble Lord, irrespective of whether they are Israeli, Palestinian, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, or of no faith—we, together, mourn the loss of every innocent life, of every faith and nationality.

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made clear Israel’s right to defend its borders and people, and to act against terrorism. In doing so, as I am sure noble Lords recognise, both he and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary have been engaged directly with Israel, as have I, urging it to take all possible precautions to minimise harm to civilians in Gaza.

I will come to the grave humanitarian situation and the UK response shortly, but first I want to focus on the British nationals caught up in this conflict. Supporting our nationals and providing support to their grieving families is a key priority. I assure noble Lords—many have asked—that diplomatic efforts are under way to free all the hostages; I have referred to a number of cases. The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has great expertise; I have seen that working in many ways across the globe over several years. On this occasion again, we will leave no stone unturned in bringing our people back safely. We have facilitated flights for those British nationals wishing to leave Israel, bringing out more than 950 people. We are working with Egypt, Israel and other international partners to ensure that British nationals can leave Gaza safely via the Rafah crossing into Egypt. I can share with noble Lords this afternoon that we have now deployed a UK Border Force team in Egypt, working with our embassy, to help citizens cross as soon as they can. The safety of British nationals will remain our utmost priority and I urge all noble Lords, when they get inquiries or people seeking information, to ask those people to look at our continuously updated travel advice.

British nationals currently in Israel or the Occupied Palestinian Territories, including Gaza, should register their presence via the Foreign Office’s travel advice page. We will then be able to share important updates, including information to help them to leave the country. We will also continue to keep in close contact with British nationals in Gaza and update them on the latest status of the Rafah crossing.

Many noble Lords have said to me privately—it was noted in the repeat of the Statement by my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal yesterday—that this tragic act of terror and the continuing situation in Gaza fuel further instability and violence across the region. The outbreak of protests in several cities reflects how strongly people feel about the conflict.

Before I set out the actions the UK is taking, I make it absolutely clear that we are not only acutely aware of the contagious nature of this conflict but acting in this respect. We are aware, for example, that violence in the West Bank is rising. This year has become the bloodiest for West Bank violence since UN records began in 2005. As I said earlier, and I am sure we will hear it repeated time and again in the debate today, all loss of civilian life is tragic, but it is also avoidable.

I turn to the specific action that the United Kingdom Government are taking. While support to British nationals remains our priority, and rightly so, there are, as the Prime Minister set out, three distinct areas where the UK is helping to shape wider events.

First, we are redoubling our work with the international community to prevent escalation in the region and further threats against Israel. As the Prime Minister has said, in Israel’s fight against Hamas, we are of course with Israel. But, importantly, hope and humanity must win out against the scourge of terrorism, aggression and hate. We will work to rescue our hostages, to deter further incursions and to support Israel as it seeks to do so from Hamas, and, importantly, to strengthen security for the longer term.

I turn to some of the assets we have deployed, because it is important that we clarify that position as well. We have deployed a significant package of support to the eastern Mediterranean, including two Royal Navy ships, RAF surveillance aircraft and a company of Royal Marines. We are bolstering our forces in Cyprus and across the region. However, I make it clear to your Lordships’ House that the Royal Navy ships and personnel are not being sent there to fight. We are there to support the humanitarian response and prevent the outbreak of a regional conflict.

Intensive diplomatic engagement is also ongoing since those attacks on 7 October, as I know personally as the Minister for the Middle East. My right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have both visited Israel and, importantly, the wider region. They took with them a message of support for and solidarity with the whole region, in unification against terrorism and in doing all we can, with the different equities possessed by different countries, to avoid a wider regional conflict. They remain, as I do, in close daily contact with counterparts across the Middle East and beyond. Earlier today, for example, I had a very constructive call with the Deputy Foreign Minister of Kuwait. The Foreign Secretary has spoken to many of his peers on his travels, which have taken him to many parts of the Gulf and the Middle East.

Since the outbreak of the conflict, I have engaged with regional counterparts from Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and the UN—all coming together to seek to prevent regional escalation, while also focused on the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

Last Saturday, the Foreign Secretary and I attended the Cairo peace summit, at which we reiterated the need for us all to work together to prevent instability engulfing the region and claiming yet more lives. Whatever perspective different countries brought, all were focused on the importance of peace, security and stability in the region, and a collective effort towards, ultimately, a two-state solution of Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace and security. Our partners in the region have welcomed our role and believe that we have a constructive and important role to play in preventing further escalation, and we will continue to do so.

We have also made it clear in these engagements that all precautions must be taken to minimise, limit and mitigate against harm to civilians in Gaza, and to allow safe and unhindered humanitarian access. It is imperative that the window for relocation remains open and, if civilians are asked to relocate, they do so voluntarily and safely. Yet the challenges remain immense.

Secondly, we are providing humanitarian aid directly to the Palestinian people. The opening of the Rafah crossing this weekend to allow vital humanitarian aid into Gaza is testament to the power of diplomacy. It may seem—and it is—a small symbol, but it shows the art of the possible. The opening of the Rafah crossing was no small feat and required a diplomatic push from many countries. So far, more than 50 trucks containing aid have now crossed the border, but I would be the first to say that it is not enough. It is imperative that this continues and increases substantially if it is to have the desired impact of saving the lives of Palestinians in Gaza.

We have been clear also that Hamas is a terrorist organisation which, as we have seen, neither speaks for nor acts in the interests of the Palestinian people. It does not stand for the future that Palestinians want or desire. The conflict is exacerbating a situation that is already dire: six out of 10 Gazans were in need of humanitarian assistance before Hamas attacked Israel. But now, a greater humanitarian crisis is unfolding before us.

On 16 October, the Prime Minister announced £10 million in humanitarian funding to help civilians in Gaza and, as noble Lords will have heard, my right honourable friend announced an additional £20 million yesterday, more than doubling our previous support to the Palestinian people. That funding will provide essential relief items, including food, water and emergency shelter, depending on needs on the ground. The uplift increases our aid commitment for the Occupied Palestinian Territories from £27 million to £57 million this year. This makes the UK one of the largest bilateral donors in this current humanitarian crisis.

I know that some noble Lords may express concern, as others have in the other place, but I assure them that all UK aid undergoes rigorous oversight, and multiple safeguards are in place to prevent UK funding from going to Hamas. Any UK assistance will be channelled through trusted partners, including key UN agencies, which have been playing an important role. As I said—I underline this important point—it is because of the strength of our partnership and relationship with Israel that we can make the case to ensure that it takes every possible precaution to minimise civilian casualties. As such, we welcome the commitment of the Israeli president, President Herzog, who has vowed that Israel’s armed forces will operate in accordance with international law.

However, we cannot equate the two: through our lens in this country, Hamas is, by definition, a terrorist organisation. We must have moral clarity when we approach these issues. Yes, Israel is defending its borders and citizens, but, as a state, our role, as a friend and partner, is to work with Israel on the importance of acting within international humanitarian law and of alleviating the suffering of innocent civilians.

Thirdly, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said, we are working hard to sustain the long-term prospects of peace and stability in the region. The Prime Minister has spoken to the Israeli Prime Minister and the Palestinian president. The UK’s message has been clear: we must work together to chart a way through this particularly challenging and trying period for Israelis and Palestinians. The UK wants to see Israelis and Palestinians living safely and securely in peace. I have visited the region numerous times, and I know that many within Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories have that desire for peace and stability.

I reiterate what the Prime Minister said only yesterday: the United Kingdom and this Government remain committed to making progress towards a two-state solution, for which the need is more acute now than ever. The UK’s long-standing position has been clear: yes, we support a negotiated settlement, leading to a safe and secure Israel living alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state. I would go further: ultimately, as they are close neighbours, there will inevitably be an interdependency between people—that is an important vision to keep in mind. I accept that it may be difficult to look at that vision and opportunity right now, but we cannot allow terror and hate to win and to kill the prospects for this two-state solution and, importantly, for peace, security, normalisation and stability in the region.

As the Prime Minister also said yesterday, we must keep alive that vision of a better future against those who seek to destroy it. We cannot, at home or abroad, allow terrorism to divide us or to prevail—it cannot prevail.

We stand with Israel as it seeks to restore security to its borders, a country which was shocked to its core. As I said, that shock was not limited to Israel or to its people. It is a shock we all shared: the immediate shock of those innocent lives destroyed, the hostages taken, but also, as we have seen now, the terrible and continuing deeper suffering of the Palestinian people. Let us be clear, and many Israelis in Israel, that the Palestinian people are not the enemy: terrorists are, and the people who can be termed as such.

I assure noble Lords of my good offices and those of the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister and indeed across government. We will continue to work tirelessly on the four strands that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has laid out. First, we are supporting British nationals and their families affected by these events, both in Israel and Gaza. Secondly, we are working to prevent escalation in the region and further threats against Israel. Thirdly, we are providing humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people. Finally—probably one of the most challenging issues that we face—we are striving to sustain the long-term prospects of peace, stability and security in the region.

It sometimes takes a shock to focus minds. This was an attack of terror on an ally of the United Kingdom, and therefore it is right that the United Kingdom continues to stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel at this important time in its history. However, we are at a crossroads. There is an opportunity here. As I said right at the start, I know that many noble Lords across your Lordships’ House possess incredible insight and wisdom and have experienced themselves the issues of mediation and conflict resolution. Therefore, I assure noble Lords, as I have already done with a number, that I seek their insights, not just today in your Lordships’ House but on how we can work together and focus on the equities we possess. Irrespective of whether that person is currently in Gaza, in the West Bank, or in Israel, the message that must go to them is one of hope. That hope means that hate will not prevail.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I first thank all noble Lords for their contributions—strong, focused, passionate, thoughtful, insightful, principled and at times emotional. But one thing was clear: these were expert insights from various perspectives. As I said in my introduction, there are some uniform and united messages that leave no doubt about the unity of your Lordships’ House this evening. I reflect the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in saying that, when it comes to important issues, such as how we stand against terror and those who seek to divide us, His Majesty’s Government, the Opposition, representatives of other parties and individual Peers in your Lordships’ House are very much at one.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, yehi zichra baruch—may their memory be a blessing. We join her and many other families who have sadly and tragically been impacted. Every life lost on this issue is a tragedy. As I said in my opening remarks, we stand united with Israel as it seeks to strengthen its response and to ensure that it secures its citizens, for security is the first duty of any responsible Government.

I also note the incredibly valuable and insightful contribution by the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury. I know I speak for the whole House when I say to him that, when we saw the tragedy unfold at the Al-Ahli Arab Hospital, we all recognised its particular link to the Anglican communion. Our sincere condolences go to all involved with that institution.

The ramifications of Hamas’s attack on Israel which, as we have heard from many noble Lords, was a terrorist attack, continue to unfold. As I said in my opening remarks, many in Israel, including from within, made comparisons to the Holocaust. While the world has moved on—this is 2023—the brutality of that appalling act of terror, which many noble Lords talked about, resonates.

The noble Lord, Lord Austin, talked of survivor testimony and many noble Lords talked of the importance of standing strong in the face of the challenge and the terrorism of Hamas. I associate myself with the thoughtful comments and great expertise shown by the noble Lords, Lord Turnberg, Lord Reid and Lord Bilimoria, all of whom talked about the Hamas threat, as did the noble Lord, Lord McCrea.

I will be very clear. I have noted and will come on to the issue of a ceasefire. A ceasefire is important for both sides, but when dealing with an organisation that is terrorist in its ideology—scratching the surface, comparisons were made to Daesh this evening; and I have visited parts of the region, including Iraq—it might at times be defeated on the battlefield or in the theatre, but the perverse ideology of such organisations remains. We should never lose sight of this. Hamas’s reason for being is the destruction of Israel. Its actions, terror, division and hate are reflected in what it did to innocent civilians.

Again, there was unity on the important issue of the taking of hostages, irrespective of the noble Lord contributing. The clear, unequivocal message from your Lordships’ debate this evening is: release them now and release them unconditionally.

When I met some of the families directly impacted, it affected me as a father. The youngest child of one family is nine months old; the oldest member of that family is 93. That shows the depravity of the organisation that is Hamas. I commend all noble Lords, irrespective of the strength of the views and emotions they expressed; we are at one on this issue.

I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, and to my noble friend Lord Howard for his illustration of the strength of Israel. He talked about the diversity in its football team. My noble friend Lord Polak reminded noble Lords that I am a Liverpool fan, as is my noble friend Lord Howard.

I will share a personal anecdote. When those attacks happened, the first call I received was from the Israeli ambassador. Very soon that morning, calls started rapidly coming in. Because of a family bereavement, my wife was not there. I was on paternal duties as well. I was standing on the side of a hockey pitch watching my son in his debut performance as a goalkeeper. As I watched my son play, the gravity of the unfolding situation dawned on me. Therefore, when my noble friend Lord Polak talked of that young child in his Liverpool shirt, I wiped a tear from my eye—I mean that sincerely. That could have been my nine year-old, although he would have been wearing a Tottenham shirt; I am not quite sure how that happened.

The importance of life and of the dignity of life should not be lost. When the attacks happened I made three calls, though not deliberately to show how faith matters to me personally. One of the first was to my noble friend Lord Polak, because I knew he was in Jerusalem. The second call was to Imam Sharif Odeh in Haifa; I have been in discussion with him this evening. Tomorrow he is hosting people, including the Mayor of Haifa, who are all of different religions— Muslim, Christian and Jewish together to ensure a unity of response from the community. It is important to recognise that 20% of the population of the State of Israel are non-Jewish—Israeli Arabs made up of Christians and Muslims. As several noble Lords pointed out, Jerusalem is the Holy City, the Holy Land that brings together these three Abrahamic faiths. The poignancy of the contribution from the most reverend Primate is not just acknowledged but recognised for the strength of the Spiritual Benches and their importance to your Lordships’ House.

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, talked in a strong, principled manner. When I am dealing with him on legislation, I often have to look at the technicalities of the law. I admit this with a high degree of trepidation because I know how the noble Lord—my dear friend David, if I may say that—operates. I was humbled by his gracious invitation to his home. I remember that evening very well. This evening he shared with us his abhorrence of Hamas’s ideology. Other noble Lords referred to it, including my noble friend Lady Warsi.

Let me make it absolutely clear: this organisation seeks not just to misrepresent but to hijack a noble faith. Its actions and ideology are nothing to do with the faith that I, and several other noble Lords who have spoken today, follow. It is no kind of religious ideology. It is the hijacking of a noble faith. But it is equally important that, when we see acts of terror—irrespective of who the perpetrators and victims are—we call these out quite directly. This debate has been reflective of that issue. Other noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Gold and the noble Lord, Lord McCrea, mentioned the absolute abhorrence of the Hamas ideology.

It is interesting that we have had debates on anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim hatred, and I will come on to the community response. But what is it when you as a Muslim stand up for the Jewish community and you receive hate? How do we describe that? Is that anti-Muslim hatred or is that anti-Semitism? I would say it is a vile combination of both. That is also something many noble Lords in this Chamber and honourable and right honourable Members of the other place have to face. However, it is absolutely essential that we make our views even clearer. We should not be cowed in any sense.

The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, talked about the Government. I always say, and I will defend this to the hilt, that of course we have issues and challenges in the United Kingdom but this country—our country—is a rich tapestry of communities, people and faiths. Its diversity is its strength. We must not just challenge those who seek to divide but tell them absolutely straight that they are wrong, that we are united, and that their perverse ideology will be defeated. That has to be clear in everything we do.

We mourn the loss of every innocent life in this tragic conflict. The picture changes with each hour. I have been sitting here, as all noble Lords have, for several hours, being constantly updated about the current situation in Israel and Gaza. As I said earlier, the Prime Minister has said very clearly that, notwithstanding the challenges and issues we face, we will work distinctly on the four key pillars.

The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, talked about the warning of conflicts. We should look at that very carefully. It is shocking that, depending on how you define conflict, anything between 40 and 60 conflicts are raging across the world in 2023. The issue of contagion of this conflict is very real. We need to ensure that we understand that our relationship, friendship and alliance, and the strength of unity we have with Israel, also means that we have a valued position. When we talk with various Israeli interlocuters, as my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary and I have done, it is not just a gesture of diplomacy; they listen. Why? Because we stand with them at this time of great challenge. I am appreciative of His Majesty’s Opposition and the Liberal Democrat Benches, and in this House the Cross Benches, for their strong united stand in this case.

I turn to some of the specifics on the hostages. All noble Lords talked of the need to release them, and not just the British nationals. I was with the Foreign Secretary, who made it absolutely clear that while of course we defend British interests and look towards British hostages, this is about every innocent person taken, irrespective of whether they are a man, woman or child and irrespective of age or nation. We want all hostages released. That is the message.

My noble friend Lord Howard talked about Qatar, as did the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, and several other noble Lords. I assure noble Lords that we are talking to Qatar and that Egypt is also playing an important role. I join others in commending the role of the ICRC and the Red Crescent, which are playing important bridging roles. I assure my noble friend Lord Leigh that this is not a one-off. We are in regular contact with these key players to ensure that those with influence exert that influence and make sure that it is counted. We should not in any way cease our activities, and I will continue to update your Lordships’ House in this respect.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about British nationals. I can share that all British nationals who have registered and want to leave Israel on government flights have been allocated seats. We are also working on the very difficult and fluid situation in Gaza. I talked about the 900 people we brought back from Israel to the UK. Commercial flights operate and continue to operate from Tel Aviv, but we are cognisant of our wider responsibilities and that is why we changed the travel advice for Lebanon. We also introduced, in advance of the challenges we are currently seeing on the northern border of Israel and the southern border of Lebanon, a register of presence to ensure that those who are in-country can register. I assure noble Lords we are seized of this.

Many noble Lords have talked about the issue of contagion, including my noble friend Lord Sterling and the noble Lord, Lord Stevens. I always saw him as coming from a health perspective, so to see him as an insightful foreign policy expert is very welcome; I am sure there will be many debates in this respect. I welcome both his challenge to the Government and his contribution. The noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, also mentioned it—I almost called him my noble friend because we have worked on many initiatives together—as did the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, and others.

Let me be very clear: we want this conflict to end tomorrow, but that needs Hamas to stop throwing rockets into Israel and to stop holding innocent hostages. We are true to our word, standing up and providing that humanitarian lifeline. Yes, I pay tribute to our friends and partners, the United States and Egypt, in the negotiation, but I know for a fact that this is not some media policy. Your Lordships have it on record from the Minister for the Middle East about the diplomacy and the leadership shown by my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, who were in the region at the same time—there was almost a baton exchange. When I travelled to Cairo last Saturday, that reflected this strength; the messaging to key partners was candid. I hope noble Lords will recognise that the United Kingdom Government are taking our responsibilities in this respect very seriously.

The issue that the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, raised about ensuring that we prevent wider conflict is very much at the forefront of our mind. We are engaging directly. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised specific issues. Let us be clear: over the course of the weekend, as the Pentagon reported, there was an attack by Iraqi militia on a US base. There should not in any way be a decrease in vigilance; this is about increased vigilance. We also know that Bashar al-Assad is now in a different place from where he was before, even six or 12 months ago, so we need to be very clear about the issue of contagion, whether that is Lebanon or the situation in Iraq. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that we are engaging directly with the Iraqi Government in this respect. Over the last few days I have been in touch directly with the Foreign Minister of Iraq.

We will continue to be vigilant. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has played its role, but there was also an attempt—it was symbolic but nevertheless a real threat—coming from the Houthis. We had seen some real progress being made on the issues in Yemen, but it was Houthi drones pointed towards Israel that were recently shot down, so it is important that we stay vigilant in this respect.

We are also intensifying diplomatic engagement guided at the principle of standing with Israel. As I said, we want Hamas to give back the hostages, stop its incursions and look towards security for the longer term.

Thirdly, we are providing humanitarian aid to the Palestinians now. I pay tribute to the IDF soldier Yosef, who the most reverend Primate mentioned. I also recognise the points made by my noble friend Lady Morris about the incredible bravery of so many workers working for NGOs within both Israel and the Palestinian Territories, who play a vital role. I acknowledge the important role of the United Nations and the UNRWA teams. I spoke directly to the Secretary-General and commend his visit to the Gaza border. It is important that we recognise that senior members of the UN team, including Secretary-General Guterres, Rosemary DiCarlo and Martin Griffiths, were also in attendance at the Cairo meeting.

The most reverend Primate asked specifically about our support for the reconstruction of hospitals and other parts of Gaza. We are committed to that. We have already seen my right honourable friend increase funding over the last few weeks. I remember doubling the funding at the UN high-level week—which was only in September but seems like a long time ago now—and our funding for this year now stands at £57 million. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, that we have made all efforts to mitigate any misdirection of aid to ensure that it reaches the most needy and vulnerable and those for whom it is intended. We therefore work with trusted partners, including UN agencies and other key international NGOs, to ensure that we can fulfil that obligation.

We will continue to assess the situation on the ground and, as I said earlier, we will continue to update noble Lords in that respect. The noble Baronesses, Lady Janke and Lady Blackstone, asked about the distribution of aid. We are working with key partners. With regard to protecting some of those partners, I am sometimes reluctant in conflict zones to name them, but UK aid specifically has started arriving; I believe the first plane arrived yesterday. We want to keep the Rafah crossing open. I say quite directly to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that I said right at the outset that it is good that we have started some trucks going in but that is not enough to sustain the innocent civilians who are currently being used in Gaza by Hamas. So funding has been delivered through key partners, and of course we are closely monitoring its delivery.

The noble Baroness Lady Ramsay, my noble friend Lord Leigh, the noble Lord, Lord Grabiner, and other noble Lords—in fact, just about everyone—asked about the proscription of the IRGC. The malign influence of Iran is very clear. I cannot give what the noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked for today, but of course we are observing closely Iran’s continued influence, the escalation and its support for organisations within the region. We are clear that Iran poses an unacceptable threat to Israel, as my noble friend highlighted, including through its long-term support for Hamas, Hezbollah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group. We have long condemned its destabilising influence. I will share the strength of views in many contributions in your Lordships’ House with my right honourable friend and others within government. I am sure noble Lords recognise that at this time I cannot go further.

However, we are working on sanctions. The noble Lord, Lord Stevens, asked me about the JCPOA sanctions. I have written in advance to several noble Lords to say that, as these sanctions are coming off, we are working with our EU partners and the US to make sure that, as they expire, they will come into UK law directly so there is no break from the sanctions currently being applied. We believe that is a legitimate response in order to limit Iran’s malign influence.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ramsay, my noble friends Lord Wolfson and Lord Polak and the noble Lords, Lord Stevens and Lord Verdirame, raised another issue. I commend the influence of the noble Lord, Lord Verdirame, and the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, may perhaps have a conversation with him about the law when it comes to conflicts. Of course we are raising directly with Israel the issue of proportionality and ensuring that it takes all necessary steps to prevent civilian casualties. We are impressing that upon Israel, and we would not be having this number of trucks carrying deliveries if Israel did not recognise the importance of opening the crossing at Rafah. We have stressed to Israel the importance of protecting civilians and facilitating safe and unhindered access to humanitarian and medical aid for Gaza. I assure the noble Baronesses, Lady Sheehan, Lady Hussein-Ece, Lady Gohir and Lady Smith, and others who raised these issues that that is a live issue right now, and we will continue to press it. I hope that noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, will recognise the UK’s efforts in this respect.

On the issue of how we deal with conflicts, one of the things that I have learned with all the—how can I put this politely?—challenging responses that I get on some of my own social media, which my noble friend Lord Wolfson pointed to, is that this is now a different kind of conflict. We have to deal with things live.

Lots of people ring me and say, “Tariq, what are you doing here?”, sometimes using rather choice language. I say to them that at a time of conflict, you need calmness —a calm, considered response. Evidence matters; facts matter. On the reporting in certain media channels—the noble Lords, Lord Grabiner and Lord Verdirame, and my noble friend Lord Polak, among others, raised this—I can do no better than repeat the Prime Minister’s words:

“When things are so delicate, we all have a responsibility to take additional care in the language we use and to operate on the basis of facts alone”.—[Official Report, Commons, 23/10/23; col. 592.]


Whether that applies to a Minister, a parliamentarian or, indeed, our media colleagues, it is very important that we have that moment of reflection.

We have not been silent on illegal white phosphorus. The noble Lord, Lord Singh, raised this, as did my noble friend Lord Leigh, and I will answer it directly. The accusation made against the IDF regarding the use of white phosphorus is, in its words, categorically false. Israel recognises its responsibilities under international law. Yesterday the Prime Minister called for us to speak on the basis of facts alone. We need to recognise that there is a lot of misinformation out there and we need to verify the facts.

Several noble Lords, such as my noble friend Lady Warsi, the noble Baronesses, Lady Hussein-Ece, Lady Gohir and Lady Bennett, as well as my noble friend Lord Shinkwin, provided an alternative perspective on ceasefires. As I said earlier, ceasefires will also involve Hamas ceasing hostilities. It has demonstrably shown that it is not willing to do so. However, we are opening up those access points for humanitarian corridors, which is where our current focus is. I believe that most noble Lords will agree that it is right to do so.

I am conscious of time and seek your Lordships’ indulgence on two key points. The noble Baroness, Lady Deech, my noble friends Lord Godson and Lord Polak, and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, among others, mentioned the Abraham accords. They are part and parcel of our response. I am always taken with the contributions by the noble Lord, Lord Stone—they are succinct, brief, and to the point. Of course I will continue to work with him in this respect, because we have to bring hope.

We will sustain the long-term prospects of peace and stability in the region—we cannot lose sight of this. Hamas’s abhorrent actions must not be allowed to dictate the fate of the region. If we give up, collectively —and that applies to Palestinians and Israelis—then Hamas has won. Therefore, it is right that we step up even more strongly in support of bringing about peace. As I have said, we remain committed to a negotiated two-state solution—a safe and secure Israel living alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state, a just and lasting solution that ends occupation and delivers peace for both Israelis and Palestinians. This has gone on for far too long. Many noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, spoke of reconciliation—of course it is possible, and we will continue to focus on that.

I was taken by the very personal contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Oates. Again, it is not that we are not taking on board the calls for a ceasefire, but a ceasefire is called for when it will be most effective. Of course we want humanitarian windows, and those are being delivered. We will continue to call out those issues which are obstacles to peace, such as illegal settlements, which were mentioned—barriers which gravely undermine the prospects of a two-state solution. I assure all noble Lords that we will continue to be seized of that issue.

The final point I want to make is on the rising tide of hate which we have seen. On the work of the CST and Tell MAMA, we have, as I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, acknowledges, increased funding to the CST, which provides vital support. The noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, my noble friends Lord Harrington, Lady Altmann, Lord Gold and Lady Eaton, the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, as well as others, all talked of the protests. We celebrate our democracy for its right to protest but that protest must be without incitement to hatred. That is important. I celebrate the fact that I am still able to pick up my file and cross the road to the Foreign Office from this place. We should be protecting these things. They are a vital part of our democracy.

I echo the call made by the noble Baroness, Lady Deech. I remember going to Auschwitz-Birkenau with a group of students when I was a Communities Minister. I still remember that, as we turned into the camp, the silence of that bunch of 16 year-olds was total. At that moment, there was silence in the coach. Why? Because the dawning of their historical learning was very real. It is therefore right that we invest in such initiatives. I pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Warsi for her initiative, Remembering Srebrenica. These genocides happen and they are happening today. We need to stand united against them and call them out. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, also focused on these issues.

We will stand strong against anti-Semitism. I assure the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of York that I will take back some of his suggestions. There were suggestions from my noble friend Lord Godson about engagement and I assure him that our policy has not changed when it comes to our engagement. I will certainly take back some of the points he wanted to share with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Levelling Up. I say to the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of York that, yes, we want to strengthen the faith initiatives. We cannot let hate divide communities or spill into our streets. We need to stand firm, whether that is against anti-Semitism or anti-Muslim hatred.

On our universities, I acknowledge the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and my noble friend Lord Wolfson. It should not be the case that he is worried about his daughter. I have a daughter as well; I want her to be safe and his daughter to be safe. I want all daughters and sons, all children, all people to be safe in our country. That is what our country is all about.

As a Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Minister, I assure your Lordships that we are using our levers of development and diplomacy to best effect. That does not mean we are getting everything right immediately, with the changing circumstances, but we stand to build alliances and unity of purpose. Maybe this is the window of opportunity that brings us a first step to lasting and sustainable peace.

I recognise the strength of feeling in your Lordships’ House this evening but today this is perhaps more important than ever. The heavy toll that has been paid by innocents, as the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, said, demonstrates the urgent need to make progress towards peace. We should not lose sight of that. We should rekindle the spirit of President Sadat and Yitzhak Rabin: that peace is possible. We should all strive for that and say that we will do our part to ensure that hope transcends over despair, peace over conflict and love over hate.

I end my remarks with words which I am sure some noble Lords will recognise. There was a very revered person who understood the Middle East—as my noble friend said, blessed are the peacemakers, and this person was one of those. He said that the only

“radical means of sanctifying human lives”

is

“Not armored plating, or tanks, or planes, or concrete fortifications. The one radical solution is peace”.


That was the revered, respected and late Yitzhak Rabin, Nobel Peace Prize winner, in his lecture of December 1994. We were reminded by the noble Lord in his earlier contribution about prayers for peace and coming together. I join others in saying that, in our respective ways and homes, and our respective faiths and religions, that kind of faith is needed now and those prayers for peace are needed now. In our own way, let us work towards ensuring that it becomes a sustainable peace for people across the Holy Land.

Motion agreed.

Gaza: Al-Ahli Arab Hospital Explosion

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister said earlier, we—the Opposition and the Government—are at one, united in support of Israel against terrorism, and we mourn the deaths of Palestinians and Israelis, and particularly the loss of life at the Al-Ahli Hospital. President Biden made it clear that he believed the main achievement of his trip to Israel was to persuade Israel to allow humanitarian relief deliveries across the Egypt-Gaza border. After speaking to Egyptian President al-Sisi, Egypt agreed to open the Rafah crossing to allow 20 trucks with humanitarian aid to enter—obviously, a limited number. As President Biden said, the roads and the infrastructure to get that aid in has been badly damaged and need repairs. The real issue of the next few days and weeks is: will aid get through, is fuel getting through, and is the United Kingdom helping to facilitate that? My specific question is—I heard what the Minister said earlier today: what are we doing to support Egypt to get that aid through as well as support for those people who are in such desperate need of assistance?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his remarks, which are very reflective of the contributions of many across this Chamber. Humanitarian aid getting through to Gaza is a key government priority and we are working with key partners. President Biden’s visit recently was very much focused on that, and progress has been made. As I came into the Chamber I checked again; although the situation is fluid and the border is not yet open, the noble Lord is correct that the convoys are ready. We are engaging quite directly. I mentioned earlier that both my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are in the region. The Foreign Secretary was in Egypt this morning and had a detailed discussion with Foreign Minister Shoukry, who I am also in touch with, on these very issues and some of our key priorities, including the hostages and the departure of British nationals from Gaza. It is also important that we look at the inward flow of humanitarian support. It is not yet operational but I assure the noble Lord and indeed all in your Lordships’ House that this is a key government priority, and with the Foreign Secretary’s meeting today in Egypt we are engaging quite directly and bilaterally at the highest level in terms of diplomacy.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I also welcomed the Minister’s measured tone at Questions earlier today in the Chamber in response to this truly terrible incident. There needs to be a proper investigation as to the source of the tragedy. Does he agree with me, however, that we need a humanitarian cessation of hostilities to ensure that life-saving aid, food and water are provided and restored to Gaza and to allow for intense diplomatic activity to be carried out to prevent a wider escalation? I am sure that he agrees with that final element, and I pay tribute to the work that he has been doing with regional powers. That pause would also allow continuing support from these Benches and across the House for Israel’s absolute right to self-defence under international law against Hamas terrorism and to recover hostages.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, again I thank the noble Lord for his contribution and for the important message that is going out in our united front, as well as our united front in recognising the suffering of ordinary Palestinian civilians in Gaza, made all the worse by Hamas’s abhorrent actions. I assure him that we are prioritising that. There are moving parts to it. Yes, there is Egypt and Israel, but a majority of Gaza is still controlled by Hamas, and that is one of those areas of concern with regard to the security logistics for those who will be taking such support through. The other issue, which I know other noble Lords have been seized of as well, is the previous diversion of aid and support which has gone into Gaza. All these factors add to the complications on the ground but it is important that we look to prioritise humanitarian support, which we are doing, and we will also focus on ensuring that this is done in the most secure manner possible.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I must have been mistaken, but I thought this Question was about the explosion at the Al-Ahli Hospital. Can the Minister confirm that the facts that have now come out establish that this was not an Israeli-induced explosion at all and came from an internal rocket that failed, according to the current detailed arguments which been put forward and confirmed? Does he deplore that the Hamas version of this story, which was that 500 had been killed by an Israeli rocket, rattled around the world for quite a long time and was carried, regrettably, by British and American publications, including the BBC? Is this a matter where some move could be taken, while these are independent and free press organs, to encourage organisations such as the BBC News department to take a more cautiously impartial approach rather than regarding it as having two sides, between the butchers and the butchery, and those who suffer and have their throats cut and killed and those who do the killing? There are not two sides in this matter: it is bestiality and evil versus the public and international and world good. Can those sort of views be gently—perhaps privately—put to those who just seize on the latest propaganda for Hamas, which is a very evil organisation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is correct. We are of course looking at the tragedy which has befallen the Al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza. As I said earlier, it is a hospital with strong connections to the Anglican community and has provided, over many years, an important service. On the issue of attribution, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said yesterday, we are working with all key partners, as well as internally to make our own assessment, to establish what happened there. I am not going to speculate any further at this time: work is under way on attribution.

The important point within all this is that the people who have suffered are those who were in the hospital: those who were seeking urgent assistance and support, and among the most vulnerable. It is therefore important that, in establishing the facts, we also do not lose sight of the issue of humanitarian support, which noble Lords have mentioned. On the wider point of not jumping to conclusions, my noble friend was himself a Minister in a distinguished capacity, and one thing you learn clearly—not just as Ministers but as Governments and parliamentarians, and even our friends—is that we vitally defend media freedom in the United Kingdom. It is an important thing that we lead on. But, in all these areas, responsible reporting and responsible assessments are important, and that is what the Government are currently doing.

[Lord Stirrup (CB)]

My Lords, further to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, does the Minister agree that the rapid and largely uninformed responses to this tragedy underscore the importance of the information war in this conflict, and that while nothing is likely to move the majority of public opinion in many Arab countries, nevertheless in the context of the wider world, it is crucial that credible evidence on the cause of this disaster is put into the public domain as soon as possible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble and gallant Lord; that is why my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said as much yesterday during Prime Minister’s Questions. As I said, we are assessing the facts and the noble and gallant Lord will know of the importance of assessment and evidence. It is right, I believe, that we take time to ensure that the narrative that prevails is one which is based on the evidence that we ourselves have assessed. On wider reporting, I personally think it extremely tragic that we live in a very information-based world today where there are many people commenting on every utterance, including those of government Ministers. I assure the noble and gallant Lord that while everything which is said is being assessed and interpreted in a particular way, we want to ensure that, as far as possible, the facts are established and then, as my right honourable friend said, we will of course share them.

[The Lord Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham]

I am grateful to the Minister for highlighting the very real connections that there are between the Anglican Church and the hospital. The Al-Ahli hospital is run by the Anglican province of Jerusalem, as he knows, and built around the sacred and historic St Philip’s church, which was subject to such an horrendous incident on Tuesday. We grieve with all those who grieve the suffering and the innocent deaths in Israel and Gaza arising from the atrocious attack by Hamas.

The Archbishop of Jerusalem, Archbishop Hosam, called on people in a press conference yesterday to pray for peace, but also paid particular tribute to the extraordinary dedication and bravery of the nurses, doctors and administrators working in the hospital in such desperate conditions. Can the Government continue to impress upon the Government of Israel how essential it is, in particular, that fresh medical supplies reach the hospitals of Gaza, while also ensuring maximum protection for those buildings? Does the Minister also agree that such incidents, whatever the cause or intention, are very detrimental to the longer-term security and peace that Israel and the Palestinians deserve, in that they risk perpetuating the cycle of violence for generations to come? Protecting the hospitals in Gaza should therefore be a very high priority.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the right reverend Prelate and pay tribute to the incredible courage and bravery of the doctors and nurses around the world who play a pivotal role in providing medical support, often in the most trying of circumstances. That was exactly the case in the Al-Ahli Arab hospital. I agree also about the important role that faith has, particularly when we look at the current situation in Israel and Gaza. I know Archbishop Hosam very well. We were working directly with many faith communities prior to this conflict; that will continue to be the case.

I am also reminded that I have said at the Dispatch Box that I represent His Majesty’s Government. The head of faith—the head of the church—and the head of our Government is His Majesty, and I was very taken by the poignant tone and substance of a speech he made at Mansion House. He himself said that we are a country defined by our communities. That is the strength of the rich diversity in our nation. When something is celebrated in many parts of the world, including in Israel and by the Palestinians, we should not forget that this is not just about Islam and Judaism, as some people claim, since 20% of the Israeli population are Arab. Many of them are Muslim, yes, but many are Christian as well. The right reverend Prelate mentioned prayers for peace, so perhaps we should end with that word: peace; shalom; salaam.

Gaza: Post-conflict Reconstruction

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to coordinate action to rebuild Gaza after the war.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, rebuilding a safe and stable Gaza will be a high priority for the international community but the United Kingdom’s immediate focus is on helping to co-ordinate immediate humanitarian assistance. On Monday, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced an increase of £10 million of support to the Occupied Palestinian Territories. We are working closely with the UN and partners in the region to ensure that humanitarian support urgently reaches civilians in Gaza. As the Prime Minister said, we are stepping forward with humanitarian support, working to protect civilians from harm and straining every sinew to keep the flame of peace and stability alive.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that update. I agree with everything he said and give my whole support to the Government in their efforts. I declare an interest as a long-standing member of the Labour Friends of Israel. I pray daily for the safe release of the hostages, as I am sure many others in the Chamber do, and for an end to the hostilities the Minister has described.

Looking beyond that, can the Minister confirm that he believes in the existence of a viable Gaza after we find a peace of some sort? To secure that peace, does he agree that we must try to bring into play all possible actors in the region, including some of those who have hitherto declined to get involved in any settlement? In that context, does he recall the debate in this Chamber led by the noble Lord, Lord Polak, on the Abraham accords and some of the positive ideas suggested in it about how we can improve the economic circumstances of Gaza and the surrounding area? In particular, my colleague the noble Lord, Lord Stone, suggested that there should be a complete change in economic approach, bringing in the Saudis. As a result, the Saudis—

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I know this question is long, but this is very important. The Saudis responded to the noble Lord’s suggestion, but I found that the Government have not followed that up. Will the Government pursue this with the Saudis as a basis on which something might be built for peace?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the hostages are a priority. Irrespective of whatever faith we follow, or no faith, I am sure that all our prayers and thoughts are with them. We want their safe return and peace and calm restored. A stable Gaza is in the interests of the whole region, but it is clear that the leadership of Hamas—if you can so call this abhorrent terrorist group, which is proscribed in the United Kingdom—is not the future for Gaza, the Palestinians or the people of the region. Of course the Abraham accords are important. We are working with key partners and, as the noble Lord is aware, my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are currently in the region.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Prime Minister’s visit to Israel, which is an important statement. Does my noble friend agree that, before we can talk about the construction of a new Gaza, there must be a destruction of all the terror infrastructure underneath Gaza, which is causing the problem?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, while the situation in Gaza was extremely challenging prior to this conflict, it is an inescapable truth that Hamas as an organisation, through what it subscribes to and its actions in Israel—the killing, murder and maiming of so many, including innocent women and children—does not represent the interests of any people who are like-minded about our common humanity. I agree with my noble friend that Hamas should be something that we talk about as the past—that it was defeated and the infrastructure was put to rest—because even now, in the most desperate situation in which Gazans find themselves, missiles continue to land in Israel.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the first step in rebuilding Gaza is to stop the US-backed Israeli destruction of its infrastructure and the merciless killing of its inhabitants, including the sick in hospitals, in collective punishment for the sins of Hamas? Does he also agree that the USA, which has given support to Israel to invade Gaza, should not only meet the financial costs of reconstruction but pay reparations to survivors?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I speak not for the US Government but for the British Government. However, we both stand by the provision of humanitarian support around the world—a proud tradition irrespective of political leadership that continues today for the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. As I have said, the Prime Minister has announced additional funding and support. We are focused on that vital humanitarian support, but I am sure that the noble Lord recognises that Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. This is a very fluid situation. It is time for calm heads. Everyone was shocked to their core by the devastation we saw at the Al-Ahli Hospital—I pay particular tribute to the Lords spiritual for the strong Anglican tradition associated with that hospital—but we cannot jump to conclusions. At a time of conflict, we must ensure that there is patience, resolve and calm before we look at attribution. I assure noble Lords that the United Kingdom Government, as my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary have said, are looking at this very carefully.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that a Hamas-free Gaza, if we can ever get to that point, will provide an enormous opportunity for the case to be made strongly for a possible Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza? Does he agree that, with Hamas there, that is impossible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I reflected the noble Lord’s sentiments in my earlier responses. We are engaging with all key partners, including the Palestinian Authority. Earlier this morning I had a meeting with Hussein al-Sheikh, a senior member of the Executive of Mr Abbas. The Prime Minister has engaged directly with President Abbas, I have spoken to Foreign Minister al-Maliki, and the Foreign Secretary has been fully engaged. We have done so because the PA represents those who represent the interests of the Palestinians. In the future of that region, the rights and protection of all citizens, irrespective of faith or community, must be upheld. For the long-term horizon, that means a sustainable, two-state solution with Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace. However, at this moment we must ensure the return of the hostages, that this threat from Hamas is put to bed and, ultimately, that sustainable peace can be achieved. We all wish and pray for a future in that region without Hamas.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, on Tuesday, just hours before the terrible incident at the hospital to which the Minister referred—I agree with his remarks about that—an UNRWA school was hit. Fourteen UNRWA staff have been killed since 7 October and half a million Palestinians are currently sheltering in UNRWA facilities. I welcome the extra £10 million to the OPT, but this March I raised concerns that UK support to UNRWA has been more than halved since 2018, from over £70 million to £28 million. Does the Minister agree that there is now an urgent need for the UK fully to replenish our support for UNRWA, which will save lives?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I was at the UN in September. Two countries often come in for criticism around the protection and defence of Israel—the United Kingdom and the United States. The biggest new pledge to UNRWA, of $73 million, came from the United States and the second-biggest came from the United Kingdom, doubling our support of £10 million. This new money is in addition to that. I accept that we have had to make reductions to ODA programmes around the world, but I am sure the noble Lord accepts that, when it really matters, it is countries such as the United Kingdom and the United States that stand up for those people who need the greatest level of support.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is absolutely right that it has been the United Kingdom and United States standing up for UNRWA, although we have had severe cuts there, but the Question is about the future and how we are working. James Cleverly said yesterday that the Palestinians are victims of Hamas as well. We must remember that. How do we ensure that we do not just rely on the United States but work with countries such as Saudi Arabia so that the proper funds are put back into Palestine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord, and put on record His Majesty’s Government’s recognition of the strong support from His Majesty’s Official Opposition, and indeed all other parties represented here, in the united voice on this issue. All of us care about people suffering around the world and the issue of the Palestinians is no exception. I recognised that engagement in the meetings I had this morning. Prior to this, as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, said in his Question, we were working with key partners. I was extensively engaged on new memorandums of understanding that we have signed with Gulf partners on issues of development. This needs not just the US and the UK. We should get away from “the East”, “the western world” and the “Islamic world”. I am a Muslim of the West. Am I conflicted? No, I am not. I am proud of the traditions of this country—my country—because we stand up for the people when they need us the most. We are working with Israel; of course we are a steadfast partner, but we are also working to ensure that the Palestinians see a future horizon which is bright and in which they recognise that they can live their lives in peace, in a sustainable way with their neighbours.

UN General Assembly September 2023

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 18th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the outcomes of the High-Level Meeting of the United Nations General Assembly held in September 2023.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, high-level week was a critical collective moment to tackle the growing interconnected challenges that we face by listening to the concerns of our partners, particularly in the developing world. We saw important progress made to accelerate delivery of the sustainable development goals. Importantly, the world also heard President Zelensky make the case for a just and sustainable peace in Ukraine, and the UK Government, alongside partners, led in broadening the vital international conversation on artificial intelligence.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord the Minister for his Answer and I look forward to the publication of the White Paper, which I understand is planned for November, on the sustainable development goals. Can I ask more widely? This is perhaps directly related to the non-attendance of our own Prime Minister but also a number of other national leaders around the world—indicating, I think, a feeling of impotence at the moment on the ability of the United Nations to influence the conflicts that we see, and the persecution and violence against individuals in so many countries. Given the failure of the international community to protect civilians in Syria, Sudan, Ethiopia, Ukraine and most recently, of course, Israel and Gaza over recent years, does the UK now recognise that there is a need for fundamental reform of an institution that is still built around the outcome of the Second World War and is not fit for the challenges and conflicts of the 21st century? Will the Government set out at some point their intentions to take a lead in that debate?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the question of attendance, there was high-level attendance from the United Kingdom, led by the Deputy Prime Minister. As the noble Lord may well be aware, it is not the first time that has happened and it is not uncommon. The Deputy Prime Minister led the delegations in 2010 and 2013, and the Foreign Secretary did so between 2001 and 2004 and in 2006 and 2007.

The important element was the discussions and some of the outcomes. The noble Lord is right that conflicts persist around the world. I argue that we are seeing a record number of conflicts around the world, certainly in my time as a Minister. There is a need for early intervention and prevention but also engagement and conflict mediation. The structures are there but they need reform, and the United Kingdom has been at the forefront of that, including supporting Secretary-General Guterres’s common agenda for the future. It is important that we get the sustainable development goals back on track, because they are important to deliver. When you see progress being made there, it needs not just the focus of one country or two countries but a collective unity to ensure that we meet the challenges we currently face.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the SDGs are a vital agenda that, it was agreed, would be completed in 2030. World Food Day was on Monday, and it is a reminder that conflict and climate change threaten the progress that we have made and that this country has led on. The global food summit being held on 20 November is a chance to put this back in the leadership race and make sure that other countries take seriously the nutrition challenge, which is a multiplier in delivering on the SDGs. Can the Minister tell us that he will work with other Governments to ensure that next year’s Nutrition for Growth summit, which is scheduled to be in Paris, will be an opportunity to put things back on track so that we are able to deliver that 2030 agenda?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise the important role the noble Lord plays on this important issue. I agree with him on the SDGs; only 15% of the current SDG targets for 2030 are on track. Many have gone into reverse or stalled. Therefore, they require those important commitments.

I agree with the noble Lord on the food security summit, and the UK delegation highlighted hunger during high-level week. The UK has previously hosted the global food security summit and we are focused on delivering those important outcomes. I know the noble Lord agrees with me on this. Summits alone do not deliver outcomes. We have COP 28 coming up and we know the climate challenges. It requires promises and commitments that have been made to be fulfilled, particularly for countries that cannot help themselves. It is important that we stand up and help them.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend remind the House of the Government’s key priorities for the reform of the United Nations organisations? As the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, reminded us, they have been in their present form since the Second World War.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend is right to bring focus to that. One practical example is the current status of the UN Security Council, which was built on the pillars of the post-Second World War settlement. We have seen the Security Council not working effectively, particularly as one P5 member—namely, Russia—has interjected quite directly on its illegal war against Ukraine, a founding member of the United Nations. We need reform to reflect the global dynamic of the world today. There are many reforms. The rules-based system needs reform on how we interject when natural disasters hit different parts of the world, for example. These rules were made more than 40 years ago. They need reform to reflect the modern world we live in.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

The main reason we are off track with the goal on poverty, as well as the others the Minister referred to, is that the richest nations on earth are not making the contributions they said they would, including the United Kingdom with its unlawful ODA cut. As the Independent Commission for Aid Impact highlighted in its recent report, the UK provided £3.3 billion for multilateral ODA in 2022, but £3.7 billion was spent within the United Kingdom on refugee costs. Will the Minister agree with me that official development assistance for the world’s poorest should be spent overseas and not here in the UK?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the principle the noble Lord articulates, but he will be aware that it is within the ODA rules. The reduction we had to make was reflective of the challenges that the United Kingdom is facing, as all countries are. We remain one of the largest donors when it comes to ODA. It is also right that, as the United Kingdom has done with Ukraine and other conflicts around the world, we look to support those seeking protection here in the United Kingdom. It is within the rules to spend on that within that first 12-month period. He will know that my right honourable friend Andrew Mitchell, the Minister for Development, is very seized of the importance of ODA spend globally. That is why the White Paper referred to earlier will also define our future way on ODA spending and our priorities in the years to come.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, when approaching the issue of UN reform—and I agree with both him and the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, that reform is needed—it is probably wise to approach this in an incremental way and not to try to fashion together one single, overall package? In the light of the state of the world at the moment, that would look to me singularly unlikely to make progress.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord has wise insights from his time as our permanent representative at the United Nations. I agree with him about the reform that is needed, but I am sure he would agree with me that it has to go beyond words and papers being produced, and that we need practical delivery of the reforms. I want to move away from the division that is sometimes put forward about the global North and the global South. This should be a comprehensive review of understanding the equities, the strengths, the opportunities and also the challenges we have, and how we work in terms of partnership, particularly for developing nations. I talked about climate earlier; let us be quite real there. Climate change matters in certain respects to certain countries. If you are Vanuatu or Tuvalu—countries in the Commonwealth—climate change is an existential threat. It is vital that we look at the global impact of the decisions we make, but that needs fundamental reforms in the international rules-based system.

[Lord Woodley (Lab)]

My Lords, the Secretary-General of the United Nations has today called for a humanitarian ceasefire in Israel. We need the hostages home safely to their people, and we need to stop the unnecessary bombing of innocent men, women and children. Does the Minister agree?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have been very much engaged and quite heavily involved in the diplomatic efforts since the abhorrent crimes that were committed against the Israeli people and the Israeli nation. Let us be very clear from this House: Hamas itself is a proscribed organisation and its tactics, antics and impact on Israel shook that country to the core. Equally, I assure the noble Lord that we are engaging in all diplomatic efforts. He will have heard the statements of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, and indeed those of the right honourable leader of the Opposition, that we as a country are at one. We do not want to see innocent lives lost, be they Israeli or Palestinian. I assure the noble Lord that we are working all diplomatic channels—bilaterally and collectively in the region—to ensure that this conflict, which has cost so many lives already, can be brought to a halt. We need the hostages back and we need humanitarian aid to enter to help the desperate people in Gaza.

Western Balkans: Dayton Peace Agreement

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I join noble Lords in rightly praising and recognising the expertise and insights that have been brought by my noble friend Lady Helic to this debate and also her continued commitment not just on this issue but on the wider impact of the region and issues of security. My noble friend and I have had extensive discussions and debates on this. I pay tribute to her efforts, which ensure that this is at the forefront of the Government’s thinking. In this regard—I will come on to it in a moment—I had a very constructive meeting with the Minister for Armed Forces earlier today, and I will certainly pick up on a couple of my noble friend’s suggestions.

The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, and my noble friend Lord Cormack reminded us of the history of the issues in the Western Balkans. I have said before, and I say again, that I remember visiting Bosnia-Herzegovina right at the start of my professional career, and then we saw Slovenia, then Croatia and Serbia. The war in Bosnia was etched in people’s memories. My noble friend Lord Cormack reminded us of the tragedy that remains the legacy of Srebrenica. I am proud that, over many years, the United Kingdom Government have remained one of those Governments who mark that particular event, that tragedy, the genocide that took place against the Bosnian people quite specifically, and it is right that we do so.

I assure noble Lords that the Western Balkans matters to His Majesty’s Government. Its security is critical to our security. We want to see all six countries become stable, inclusive and resilient democracies, no longer scarred by the legacy of conflict. My noble friend Lord Dundee made that comment extremely well. We want to see them making progress to Euro-Atlantic integration, which, from the Government’s perspective— I am sure noble Lords agree—is the surest route to the security and prosperity that their citizens deserve.

However, as we have seen from recent events, many remain vulnerable from within and from outside their borders. A small handful of powerful people profit from stoking ethno-nationalist sentiment and exploit vulnerabilities within their system for their own ends. Russia was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and others. It stokes those very flames of division, plays on the local tensions and uses them as a distraction from its illegal war in Ukraine and as a way to obstruct Euro-Atlantic integration. Any return to conflict could spread across the region, with serious political and humanitarian consequences.

Several noble Lords referred to the current conflict in the Middle East and contagion. That is why I, the Foreign Secretary, and, importantly, the Prime Minister, have been engaged in ensuring that when a conflict occurs, particularly in that part of the world, there are lessons to be learned elsewhere so that we contain conflicts, because the danger of them spreading is very real. The Government share the concerns expressed by my noble friend in her opening remarks and others, including the noble Baroness, Lady Goudie, about the growing instability that we are seeing.

Turning to Bosnia-Herzegovina, the president of Republika Srpska, Mr Dodik, is escalating his rhetoric around secession. That is very clear. These threats are accompanied not just by rhetoric alone but by sustained efforts to undermine the legitimacy and authority of the state. In the same way, he continues to confront the high representative, at times almost disabling his impact and effect, whose executive powers represent the greatest challenge to Mr Dodik’s ambitions.

I share the sentiments expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, as he reflected on the important role of the late, much respected Lord Ashdown. I remember many a discussion on this issue with the noble Lord. The leadership that the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, mentioned is needed now to be able to engage in a direct manner to ensure that those who seek to divide are challenged quite directly.

Recently, we have seen Mr Dodik sign into force legislation to block decisions by the high representative and by the BiH Constitutional Court in Republika Srpska. This stands in direct contradiction to the constitutional order of Bosnia-Herzegovina as set out in the Dayton accords, a point emphasised by the noble Lord, Lord Browne, and my noble friend Lady Helic. He has also threatened directly to ban the high representative entering Republika Srpska, stating that he would be arrested and deported if he did so. Within Republika Srpska, Mr Dodik continues to tighten his grip on power. Recent legislation has reduced the space for independent media by recriminalising defamation.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, focused on civil society, and I agree with him totally. The Republika Srpska National Assembly is considering a new law that would prohibit political activity by NGOs which receive foreign funding, with troubling and disabling implications for civil society.

We also see tensions rising in Kosovo following the shocking events of 24 September. We strongly condemn the violent attack against the Kosovo police. I am sure this House’s thoughts are with the family, friends and colleagues of the fallen police officer Afrim Bunjaku. It is crucial that the full facts are established and that those responsible face justice.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, also talked about the importance of ensuring that we act against Russia. I have already talked about how it is seeking to distract. While it is welcome that the Serbian president has announced reduced numbers of forces near the border, the build-up in the first place sent an unwelcome and destabilising signal. Serbia needs to complete the return of its troops to their usual bases without delay, co-operate fully with the investigation and play its part to disrupt disinformation and inflammatory rhetoric.

Many noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Purvis, Lord Alderdice and Lord Collins, focused on the UK response. I agree about the importance of peacebuilding. The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, reflected on the inability of the UN today to impose itself in ensuring that peacebuilding plays a role. I have been talking on other matters with the UN leadership, including the Secretary-General, but I assure my noble friend that, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, we are working with international partners to deter further secessionist action from Mr Dodik. Alongside members of the Quint and the Peace Implementation Council, we have been vocal in condemning Mr Dodik’s actions and reiterating our firm support for the high representative.

As noble Lords mentioned, Mr Dodik is already subject to UK sanctions, and we will consider designating others who support his drive for secession. On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, it is a matter of regret that, because of pressures within the European Union, it has not followed suit. That is something that we continue to advocate for because it allows a degree of free rein for Mr Dodik.

I turn to other specific measures we have been taking. At our instigation, the Media Freedom Coalition published a statement expressing its concern at declining media freedom in Bosnia-Herzegovina and at recent legislative changes in Republika Srpska. Over 20 countries have given their support to this statement.

We are also helping to maintain a secure environment by developing the capacity of the Bosnian armed forces; I know that my noble friend Lady Helic is very much focused on that. In addition to bilateral training and donations of equipment, we have contributed £1 million to NATO’s defence capacity-building initiative. The presence of EUFOR Operation Althea remains vital to peace and security; the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, focused on this, as did my noble friend. I assure all noble Lords that we will work with allies to see the executive mandate renewed at the UN Security Council in November.

I am aware that my noble friend has written to the Secretary of State for Defence. In my meeting with the Minister for the Armed Forces I raised these issues directly. He assured me that we continue to support security and stability in Bosnia-Herzegovina and our contributions to NATO HQ, to which I have referred. We are keeping the UK position on rejoining EUFOR under review, but we have not yet formally engaged with the EU; as my noble friend is aware, this would require approval from all member states.

However, at the invitation of the Bosnian Government, I can confirm today that next week the UK will be deploying up to 80 personnel from the First Royal Anglian to train alongside the Armed Forces of Bosnia and Herzegovina personnel. I emphasise that this deployment is part of our bilateral defence relationship with Bosnia-Herzegovina, not an operational deployment, but it again sends a strong signal from the UK. The deployment presents a good opportunity for capacity building and developing interoperability between UK and Bosnian forces. I know that the Secretary of State will be writing to my noble friend in response to her letter specifically.

We are taking further steps. Noble Lords mentioned the wider region, Serbia directly, the situation in Kosovo and the need to avoid further escalation. The Prime Minister reinforced this message with both President Vučić of Serbia and President Osmani of Kosovo at the European Political Community on 5 October. This will be key to moving beyond the current situation and finding acceptable solutions. We also continue to make it clear to the Serbian authorities that they need to co-operate fully with Kosovo’s investigation, now under way in co-ordination with EULEX, and fully reverse the build-up of troops. We are likewise clear with the Kosovo authorities on the need to communicate positively and effectively with citizens from minority communities.

Our engagement with the Western Balkans is not limited to addressing these immediate concerns. We have a political relationship with all six countries. Ministers from the FCDO have made over a dozen trips to the region since 2021; in the last month alone, the Minister for Europe has visited Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina and Serbia, as well as Croatia and Slovenia. Most recently, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary visited Tirana for the Berlin process Foreign Ministers’ and leaders’ meetings on 6 and 16 October respectively—a key opportunity to engage with the political leadership of all six western Balkan countries.

We engage directly with the provision of troops in support of KFOR. The Prime Minister’s Special Envoy, our noble and gallant friend Lord Peach, is frequently in contact with regional Governments. In August, together with the noble and gallant Lord, I attended the Bled Strategic Forum where the future of the Western Balkans was a central theme. I spoke at the Western Balkans breakfast and had bilateral meetings with the deputy Foreign Minister of Bosnia-Herzegovina as well as meeting with the Serbian and Bosnian Foreign Ministers.

There is much happening in this area. My noble friend Lord Dundee focused on some of the economic opportunities. The UK is providing up to £14 billion for major projects through UK Export Finance, as well as looking at the current situation. We are also working with transatlantic partners. I attended an event hosted by Secretary Blinken in New York last month, during which I underlined the need for the international community to use all its tools to put the Western Balkans back on the path towards greater stability and progress.

We are undertaking several other initiatives but, in closing this debate, I assure noble Lords that we are fully committed to ensuring the long-term security, stability, sovereignty and integrity of the different countries of the Western Balkans. We are also aware of the current challenges and those forces that seek to cause further division. The Government are fully committed to the security and stability of that region, and we will continue to focus in this respect by working with our international partners, as my noble friend suggests.

We are also working directly with the Governments of the Western Balkans to build those inclusive, sustainable, democratic societies that have resolved the grievances of so many in the past. We will remain focused in this way on ensuring that the current instability is replaced by stability and that the current insecurities are dealt with by co-operation. Together, and working together, we can ensure a prosperous future for the citizens of the wider Balkans.

National Cyber Security Centre

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 16th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what is the role of the National Cyber Security Centre in monitoring and preventing cyber attacks.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the NCSC, as the UK’s technical authority, is the UK Government’s authoritative voice on the cyber threat, providing independent assessments and improving cybersecurity across the United Kingdom. The NCSC provides protection at scale and drives improvements to resilience and security to mitigate threats from our adversaries and reduce cyber harms in the UK. Through tailored expertise to protect citizens, businesses and organisations, the NCSC works to make the UK the safest place to live and work online.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer, and for the White Paper that the centre has produced. What advice would my noble friend and the Government give to a firm in North Yorkshire that underwent a cyberattack a year ago and had its systems restored only by the payment of a rather large ransom in cryptocurrency? The White Paper focuses on prevention but, in the midst of an attack, what can a company possibly do other than pay the ransom?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises a couple of important points. First, on ransom demands, as she will be aware, it is the firm position of the Government and UK law enforcement that we do not encourage, endorse or indeed condone the payment of ransom demands. For example, if you pay a ransom after your computer has been affected or your systems have been impacted, there is no guarantee that you will not be targeted in the future by criminal groups. In that regard, Lindy Cameron, the CEO of the NCSC, and the Information Commissioner have written to the Law Society and the Bar Council.

However, the Government offer specific support, including to small businesses. There are the 10 Steps to Cyber Security and the Small Business Guide; there is also a ransomware portal that provides fresh advice, as well as the NCSC’s assured cyber incident response scheme. It is ever evolving, but the Government are very robust, and we are working across departments to ensure that we give the best information and response possible.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, of course, I refer to my interests in the register. I suspect that the excellent schemes that the Minister has outlined are very useful but that they do not address the question that the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked. If a company or organisation is subjected to a ransomware attack, can it get tailored help as to what to do in real time from the NCSC, and how do people know how to access that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, if the noble Lord reflects on the answer that I gave, he will see that I answered the question quite directly. The first point is, “Don’t pay”, because the experience is that there is no assurance. Of course, a small company will have limited resources, and some of the portals, information and websites, as well as the response that I have outlined, are designed to help exactly those kinds of small businesses in their response. However, one thing is very clear, whether it is within my department or the Home Office: that by paying such demands there is no assurance, for a small or a large company, that a ransom attack will not happen again.

[Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (CB)]

I declare an interest as the chair of Wilton Park, an executive agency of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Small organisations, while they are not completely part of government, nevertheless provide some back-door entrance to government by some people with malign intent, and they carry quite disproportionate costs to ensure their cybersecurity. Have the Government given any thought to how they could support ALBs and executive agencies across government more comprehensively?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise the vital insights of the noble Baroness. In working across government, we also work to ensure that government systems, structures, departments and agencies are fully protected. As I said in my Answer, this is an ever-evolving and ever-challenging threat—what is good today needs to be adapted for tomorrow’s threats. Where specific issues arise, be they for small businesses or for agencies, we seek to provide the necessary focused support.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I have visited the centre and greatly admire the work of the whole team. The public and the private sector should adhere to its advice. The Government have consulted on prohibiting payments to ransomware. The Minister and I well know that the source of many such attacks is Russia and, currently, Iran. Does it not sit ill that businesses are only being told not to pay ransomware, rather than having a legal prohibition, when that money will end up in Tehran or Moscow?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite correct and we have often discussed these issues and challenges. The mitigations we have put in and the advice we provide are all part of an overall package but, as I am sure he will agree, the challenge is that we also need sharp-end sanctions against these states. As I know from my experience at the Foreign Office over the last few years, we never used to call out or challenge state actors for cyberattacks. We now do so. The two countries the noble Lord named—Russia and Iran—are very much part of our focus. I am sure he will acknowledge that we have imposed cyber sanctions on Russia.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, to take the Minister back to prevention, he will be aware of the increase in the number of ransomware issues—the incoming Costa Rican Government last year and the Irish healthcare system the year before were both hit by ransomware attacks. Can he tell the House more about what we are learning through international co-operation? Prevention is obviously better than having to deal with a significant problem afterwards, so I hope that we are learning something from other countries that have had to deal with this and that we can extend that to public bodies and private organisations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Baroness and assure her that we work very closely with our key international partners in calling out some of these cyberattacks against companies or even government websites and systems. We seek to act together and have done so. She will be aware that at the beginning of next month we will host an AI summit, which the Prime Minister is overseeing, very much aimed at exactly what she articulates—how we can learn from each other while improving our responses. I always say that, for cyber and many of the other challenges we face, as good as mitigations or mechanisms may be, those who seek to cause us harm—be it to business or directly to the Government—are looking at new ways to overcome them, so we will continue to share and co-operate with our key partners and allies on this.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, a few weeks ago, the National Cyber Security Centre issued a warning about the risks of “prompt injection attacks” on the new large language models such as ChatGPT when used in the workplace, which enable them to be open to manipulation. What are the Government doing to ensure that they mitigate that risk in their own workplaces?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have said, we are working across government and internationally. I think we all recognise the catch-up element with the evolution of these new methods. There are transformational elements with new innovations—that is why I referred to the AI summit, which is intended not just to avail us with the opportunities these new technologies present, as the noble Lord articulated, but to address the challenge and high risk presented to government, industry, sectors and individuals.

Noble Lords may recall the sad occasion when this very Parliament was attacked physically. I remember the emotional exchanges and statements made at the time, including by my noble friend Lady Evans. There was another attack at that time, on the parliamentary emails of many Members of this House and the other place. The knowledge base available for mitigation was limited, as was awareness. I think most Members and colleagues were concerned about getting their machines and devices up and working rather than about the data loss. The more learning, education and information we can share, the better we will be at mitigating some of these risks.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, a company which is the subject of a cyberattack may not wish to be publicly identified, but they may have suffered severe financial problems. How is HMRC taking this into account and giving those companies some breathing time to put right what may have happened to them? It is all very well saying it in one section, but is there a cross-government approach to this issue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we do have a cross-government approach to this. He raises a very important point about both risk and the cost associated with cyberattacks, and we are very much seized of this. I have already outlined specific schemes and support. It is very important that we share this, however, so in the interests of full information, I will write to my noble friend and put on record in the Library the number of schemes that are available for information sharing and the support that can be offered to those impacted.

Libya Floods

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I appreciate that the Minister has been focused on the huge disaster in Libya, and of course the situation is incredibly complex. Last Thursday, David Rutley said that

“the UN is … finalising its needs assessment”,—[Official Report, Commons, 14/9/23; col. 1002.]

and that the UK stood ready to assist in is response. I take it that that assessment has now been received, so can the Minister update us on what the UK’s support will be for the disaster response team and whether this includes technical and expert advice and support? Finally, I know the Minister is on his way to UNGA at some point. Can he reassure the House that the UK will be mobilising global support for the disaster relief efforts in Libya?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure I speak for all of us in your Lordships’ House as I extend the condolences of the Government and the whole House to the people of Libya and, if I may, to the people of Morocco. Two absolutely shocking events have taken place and the human suffering has been immense.

I assure the noble Lord that we have been very much seized of the situation. Two days ago, I spoke directly to the OCHA co-ordinator, Martin Griffiths, to understand fully the work of the UN. We are routing our support through the UN agencies on the ground because of the complexity of the situation. Over the weekend, the United Kingdom’s Foreign Secretary immediately announced £1 million of funding to provide life-saving assistance, based on a needs assessment. I announced a further package of £10 million to bolster UK support in the region to cover the situation in Libya, as well as in Morocco. I can report to the House that the first flight carrying UK-funded support landed in Benghazi on the morning of Monday 18 September, including shelter items, portable solar lanterns and, importantly, water filters.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I associate myself with the sympathies from the Minister to the people of Morocco and Libya. Regarding the UK response, the Government depleted the humanitarian relief fund to less than 10% of its previous levels—has that now been fully replenished, to ensure that we can respond to natural disasters such as these going forward? On the specific response to Libya, the Minister will be aware that there have been reports of warnings which could have potentially saved thousands of lives. Which institutions within Libya do the British Government trust to ensure that any reconstruction and humanitarian relief work will be done in a corrupt-free way, to ensure that people do not have their suffering prolonged?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure the noble Lord would acknowledge that the response to the crisis in Morocco and in Libya has ensured that we have stood up funding based on the needs assessment and in line with the conversations we have had through UN agencies and, importantly, with the Libyan Administration. I spoke to the head of the Presidential Council, Mohamed al-Menfi, and extended the condolences of the United Kingdom. His Majesty the King has also sent a note. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has spoken to Prime Minister Dabaiba in this regard. I am also looking to meet the appropriate Libyan Minister on the ground in New York when I depart for the UN later today.

We have ensured immediate, life-saving funding. As the noble Lord recognises, the situation in Libya is extremely complex. There are two warring sides. I have spoken directly to our chargé on the ground in Libya to ensure there is good co-ordination with all sides. We are hearing some reports, in this desperate situation, of good co-ordination, but so much more needs to be done. The main issues are of access and logistics. On the eastern side of the country, from Benghazi, aid to all the affected areas has been hindered by people who are stopping it being delivered. They are hindering the important humanitarian work as well.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister referenced the role of the United Nations. He will have seen reports that UNICEF says that some 300,000 children have been affected and that the number is rising. Is he able to give the House any more information about this? He will have also seen that UNICEF has launched its own appeal. Can he tell us whether the disasters appeal in the United Kingdom is concentrating on both Libya and Morocco? Is he confident that the aid needed in Morocco is now reaching its desired intentions and purposes at first hand? As the Minister knows, there were complaints about how slowly it was being taken up.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s latter point, on the Saturday evening and overnight into Sunday I engaged directly with the Moroccan Foreign Minister to ensure we knew exactly what was required. I pay tribute to our emergency response teams, which mobilised overnight to ensure that the required assistance went out on two RAF planes. I am grateful to my colleagues in the Ministry of Defence for their strong co-operation. Those planes landed and the aid got through to the key parts of Marrakesh, which many noble Lords will know well, and the Atlas Mountains. We are also working with key agencies on the ground. I know that the Moroccan ambassador has embraced the NGOs which stand ready to assist, and which are working with local partners.

The UN has launched a flash fund for Libya. There are several UN agencies on the ground such as the World Health Organization and UNICEF, as the noble Lord said, and the World Food Programme has begun delivering food assistance. It is very difficult, particularly in Derna, which has been totally and utterly devastated. Once the assessments that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned are made and materialise, we will be able to stand up further support according to need.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, Libya is an oil-rich country. Surely the problem is not just one of money but of governance and neglect of the infrastructure over a long period. Is there any prospect that this tragedy might bring together the two warring factions in Tripolitania and Cyrenaica? Can the international community bring pressure on both sides and their sponsors at least to recognise the problem and try to reconcile it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Lord and his premise that Libya is economically very rich. Since the disputes broke out, which continue to plague the country, there has been corruption and a lack of co-ordination and administration. Some reports suggest that that led to the collapse of the infrastructure—particularly the two dams which directly impacted and devastated Derna. I can assure the noble Lord that we are working with the UN. Prior to this crisis, I had engaged with SRSG Bathily on reconciliation and bringing the two sides together. I hope to meet him again when I am in New York later today and during the next two days.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, the apocalyptic floods in Libya are now estimated to have killed 11,000 people, with 10,000 still missing. Their intensity and impact have been aggravated by global warming. Since 2020, the UK’s aid budget has fallen from 0.7% to 0.5% of GNI. I implore the Minister to think again, particularly as the original aid budget was set before the world had to respond to regular climate disasters.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

We have talked many a time about the need for aid, and the Government are committed to returning to 0.7% at the appropriate time. I am sure the noble Earl would acknowledge that the United Kingdom has been at the forefront of support in both Libya and Morocco, and we continue to engage in this respect. I am sure the noble Earl has been following media and other reports and will know that this is not just about climate. There are some serious issues around accountability, particularly about the maintenance of the dam. We are awaiting a full assessment in that regard. There is an acute responsibility on the part of those who administer this part of Libya.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that these two things coming together is a terrible warning for the rest of the world? The mixture of climate change and inadequate protection, as well as inadequate dealing with the maintenance of infrastructure, ought to be a clarion call throughout the world, including in this country. Would he undertake to make sure that our adaptation report, which the Climate Change Committee said was entirely inadequate, can be looked at again?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I shall take my noble friend’s suggestion, because I know that he makes it in a very constructive way. Certainly, I think that we need to. The discussions that have taken place in the UN over the past couple of days have been focused very much on climate and the environment. I am delighted that His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales has been directly involved with this matter. It is important to note that we are only half way towards the fulfilment—or lack of fulfilment—of the SDGs. The performance is very low, and we need a concerted effort to ensure that the SDGs get back on track. I am sure that the report to which the noble Lord referred serves as an important contributor in this respect.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest, as I have had a lot to do with setting up medical schools in Libya. I would be very interested to know whether the Minister has any information on the original construction of the two dams.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can share with my noble friend that the dams were actually constructed by Yugoslavia, which in itself reflects how dated they are. Of course, any infrastructure that was built requires regular maintenance. The early reports that have come out, particularly with the complex situation in the eastern part of Libya, suggest that those dams had not been sustained in the way that was required. There are lots of reports of early warning signals and cracks in the dams, and we will assess those. What is required now is a concerted effort on the ground, and for the two sides in Libya to come together in the interests of the Libyan people.

Abraham Accords

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2023 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join others in thanking my noble friend Lord Polak for tabling this debate. I put on record my sincere thanks to him for what he has done, not just since the accords were signed but, in advance of that, in strengthening security and stability. I share very much the belief of those, including my noble friend and the noble Lords, Lord Bilimoria and Lord Mendelsohn, who say that stability and security lead to economic prosperity. That can only be good for the region and the world as a whole.

I join those who have expressed their thoughts and prayers for the people of Libya. I have spoken to the Libyan President and, this morning, to Martin Griffiths at the UN. We are co-ordinating our efforts. I know we will discuss that in the Chamber next week.

I join others in saying that we stand in absolute solidarity with Morocco. For most of Saturday night and Sunday morning I was working through the logistics of our response to the earthquake. I am delighted that, through the co-ordination we have and our investment in those relationships—it is not just the Government; many noble Lords here today have played their part in that—we were one of the few countries that were first in to make assessments. I pay tribute immediately to our search and rescue teams, which are doing such a sterling job. I assure noble Lords that we have other offers in place in place for both of those tragedies, and I will update the House accordingly.

Today we are discussing the Abraham accords. I was taken by my noble friend Lord Hannan’s contribution, when he reminded us of what looks over us and, indeed, that God minds over us. I totally align myself with his comments because that is something that we as people of faith—whatever faith we follow, but particularly those who follow the Abrahamic faith—should always reflect on.

My noble friend’s Question is equally poignant today, on the third anniversary of the historic Abraham accords. Regarding the UK role, I can put this simply to my noble friend. He rightly challenged the Government, but a lot has been done. I took on this brief in November last year and, by the sheer count of visits to those countries that are within the Abraham accords, Israel and the Palestinian territories, but equally to those countries that have not joined them and which are necessary to ensure stability and security, I can say that the Abraham accords are very much central to our dialogue.

As several noble Lords have pointed out, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has just completed his visit to Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. I have not had a chance to speak to him because he is currently in Turkey, but I hope to catch up with him tomorrow morning on the outcomes of his visit.

I assure my noble friend and indeed all noble Lords that the accords that were signed unblocked new relationships: they were truly historic. We always talk about the real conflict between Israelis and Arabs, but we are seeing that narrative change, and these accords have been central. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, and my noble friend Lord Polak that the work being done by Liam Fox and his team is very much part and parcel of our thinking. The accords formed the discussions in bilateral conversations I have had with Bahrain, Morocco and the UAE. Equally, I assure noble Lords that we have had strategic dialogues with all these countries, either in that country or here, led by either the Foreign Secretary or me. In all these respects, the Abraham accords have been pivotal to where we stand and the role we play.

Several noble Lords raised the issue of the Negev courts. This has indeed been part and parcel of our engagement and conversations with the United States and all those participating, including the likes of Morocco, which is to host the next key meeting. We have also scoped where the UK can really add value, including on common areas relating to climate. I confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, that we can use the opportunity of COP 28 in the UAE to again demonstrate our commitment in this respect.

As I said, this week, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary visited Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Importantly, the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and the right reverend Prelate reflected on this. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, it was an opportunity to mark the 75th anniversary of the strong UK-Israeli bilateral relationship and our close collaboration across a range of priorities. My right honourable friend engaged with both the Prime Minister of Israel and my dear friend the Israeli Foreign Minister, Eli Cohen. The relationship includes extensive security and defence co-operation, which continues to safeguard the UK and Israel’s national security, as well as our ambitious science, technology and sustainability partnerships, epitomised by our UK-Israel tech hub. I have a really positive story from when I visited Israel. One city that I think the noble Lord, Lord Collins, did not get to was Haifa, where there is a real demonstration of technology and community cohesion working so well.

The right reverend Prelate reminded us about the challenge we all face not just internationally but domestically. What happens in that part of the world—in the Middle East—plays out in the United Kingdom. I put on record my absolute abhorrence of those who seek to use anti-Semitism or Islamophobia and divide communities. That is not our way, and it should not be the way anywhere in the world. We will continue to stress that. That rhetoric has rightly been condemned by this Government—by me and my colleagues.

During his visit to Israel, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary met key leaders but also community leaders. He also made clear the UK’s position on the Middle East peace process and called on both Israelis and Palestinians to take meaningful actions and steps forward, first and foremost, to reduce tensions and secure peace. If we do not reduce tensions, we will see a continuation of the current tragic trajectory of loss of life on both sides. Stability leads to security, and security feeds economic prosperity.

As I said, the Abraham accords were historic and remain so. In March this year, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary signed the UK-Israeli bilateral road map with his counterpart, Foreign Minister Cohen. The historic significance of the Abraham accords is rightly in that document—their potential to nurture profound advancements for security, coexistence, prosperity and peace for the region and all its peoples. The road map also sets out our shared ambition to strengthen our partnership with Israel, boost our economic, security and technology ties, advance our co-operation on the environment and climate change and leverage our combined strengths to address global health challenges.

The UK also continues to work with other Abraham accord countries on some of these priorities. We work with partners across the region, including those who are yet to join or sign agreements with Israel. We believe that we need to build on the positive and historic progress made at the Negev summit in March 2022. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about his visit. I am always keen to meet, so we will of course schedule in a meeting with the delegation that went.

However, we are negotiating positive relationships with all countries. In Israel alone, we have started negotiations on an upgraded trade agreement and our tech hub has now facilitated hundreds of innovative partnerships. Today, Israel supplies one in seven of all medicines to the NHS.

While my noble friend Lord Polak is a great advocate for dedicated resources in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, I assure him of two things immediately. He has a very dedicated Foreign Secretary and I hope, with all humility, he would also recognise a dedicated Minister who is absolutely committed to the Abraham accords. Equally, from today’s debate we can see the dedication across your Lordships’ House to ensuring that the Abraham accords are not just sustained but strengthened, and that they deliver. My noble friend Lord Godson sought to interject, and I regret that he arrived late; but I know that he, too, is committed to the important actions we see with the Abraham accords.

Whenever I hear the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Stone, he gives a positive picture and his experience is well documented. He remarked that the Abraham accords are a great opportunity for the region. I agree. He said that we want to explore these opportunities for regional co-operation and development. I agree. We can all commit to this co-ordinating with the emerging regional architecture in the areas of security, stability and economic progress. We continue to work with Israel through the British Israel investment group, exploring opportunities to combine UK and Israeli expertise to tackle technological and sustainability issues across the Middle East.

On the other Abraham accord countries, I have already alluded to the extensive programmes, visits and engagements we have had. In December 2020, the UK Government warmly welcomed the normalisation of relations between Israel and Morocco. We also value the normalisation of relations with the UAE, Bahrain and Sudan that the accords enabled. The accords have led to a substantial increase in trade, as my noble friend Lord Polak highlighted, between all the countries. Just this month, Israeli Foreign Minister Eli Cohen visited Bahrain further to strengthen economic and cultural tries.

I can report to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, who has had to leave, the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, that we are very much committed to this. Earlier today, I had a very good meeting with the Deputy Foreign Minister of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and part of our wide-ranging discussion was on the important support that the United Kingdom lends to normalisation between Saudi Arabia and Israel. We are working very closely in several respects.

However, we must not forget the importance of current Israeli peace agreements, such as those with the Kingdom of Jordan and Egypt, which are crucial partners and neighbours of Israel. We have seen great benefit to all these countries. Great courage and conviction were shown by the leaders of Israel, Egypt and Jordan in signing peace agreements, and we must ensure that they too deliver. That is part of the security and stability for resolving the Palestinian issue.

My noble friend Lord Polak and the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, talked about encouraging other countries. Of course, we are committed to that. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, that we are equally committed to finding a lasting solution to the current conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. This month is the 30th<sup>anniversary of the Oslo accords, a moment of hope that showed us what is possible in the peace process, and we are committed to that.

I thank all noble Lords for their insightful and expert contributions. We believe that the Abraham accords have generated new momentum and have brought greater stability and security to so many. The UK is committed to ensuring that normalisation delivers benefits for the Palestinian people. It was a historic milestone that brings us closer to the goal of shared prosperity and peace throughout the region.

I shall end with a personal anecdote which my noble friend Lord Polak knows all too well. My noble friend Lord Hannan talked about the prophet Abraham. I remember as a born-and-bred Brit Muslim by faith attending a Church of England school, returning home looking rather confused and asking my mother “What is Judaism?” Like all good mothers, she gave me something to eat, and after food for the stomach, she gave me food for thought. She said: “Tarik, when we build a house, we lay a foundation, then we put in the walls, and then we lay the roof on top of that house. As Muslims, we believe the foundation of our faith is Judaism. Without the foundations of Judaism, the walls of Christianity would not have been erected and without the walls of Christianity, the roof of Islam would not have completed what we call the house of Abraham. The other doors and windows represent other faiths and beliefs and how, ultimately, to find peace, security, stability and progress, we must come together in the house of God”. In that spirit, on the occasion of the Jewish new year, Rosh Hashanah, I, too, wish everyone of the Jewish faith here in the UK and across the world shanah tovah u'metukah.</sup>

Mr Jagtar Singh Johal

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I can confirm that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister raised Mr Johal’s case with Prime Minister Modi on 9 September in Delhi, on the margins of the G20 summit. We will continue raising Mr Johal’s case and any related concerns directly with the Government of India, including his allegations of torture and his right to a fair trial. I regularly raise Mr Johal’s case directly, including with External Affairs Minister Jaishankar on 29 May.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his reply, but neither it nor the Prime Minister’s response to Questions in the Commons yesterday showed any sense of the outrage expressed by more than 100 Members of the Lords and Commons over India’s abduction and six-year arbitrary detention and torture of Jagtar Singh Johal, a British citizen. Does the Minister agree that it does nothing for Britain’s standing in the world when a British Prime Minister, looking for a favourable trade deal, expresses admiration for a man who was barred from entry into the United States and the UK for atrocities against Muslims in Gujarat, whose Home Minister refers to Muslims as “termites” and whose party is committed to turning India into a Hindu state, to the detriment of minorities?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we raised Mr Johal’s case. We have a wide-ranging relationship with India, and in that regard we have a very constructive dialogue, including, as I have raised directly on a number of occasions, on a wide range of human rights issues. I am sorry, but I do not subscribe to the noble Lord’s description of either India or the Prime Minister of India. I declare an interest as someone who has Indian heritage and is Muslim by faith.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, did the Prime Minister, and indeed the noble Lord the Minister, ask for Mr Jagtar Singh Johal’s release? What actions did they ask the Indian Prime Minister to take?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

As I said in my Answer, we raised the specifics of the allegations that Mr Johal’s family have raised with us directly. We engage with Mr Johal directly through our consular support. We do not believe that publicly asking for his release would be productive or constructive. There is a natural process and a legal process to be followed in India. However, we are raising allegations of mistreatment when they are made. We are also working on ensuring that the family can directly access Mr Johal. Indeed, I visited Scotland only last month, where I met directly with Mr Johal’s father, his wife and his brother.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, following on from that point, we have been here before with the cases in Iran and the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Commons emphasising that the Government needed to have a zero-tolerance approach to the arbitrary detention of British citizens. Do the Government agree and acknowledge that Mr Johal is arbitrarily detained? I think that previous Prime Ministers did. Is that still the case, as not just Mr Johal’s family but the UN working group has declared him to be? How can Mr Johal expect a fair trial, as the noble Lord has sort of indicated, after a confession was extracted from him by torture?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I did not sort of indicate; I was quite specific: a fair trial is required. It is protected by the constitution of India and the independence of its judicial system. The noble Baroness is quite right that the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention has issued a specific opinion about Mr Johal. We take that very seriously and have consistently raised those direct concerns about Mr Johal’s treatment with the Indian authorities. However, as the noble Baroness will know from her own experience, it is now for India to reply formally to that particular opinion.

[Lord Sahota (Lab)]

My Lords, after the Prime Minister raised the issue of Mr Johal with the Indian Prime Minister, have the Government given any feedback to Mr Johal’s family in Scotland? Secondly, do the Government think that Mr Johal is a political prisoner?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am not going to speculate on or respond to the noble Lord’s second question. This is not about politicising; it is a matter for the Indian authorities. They will be following a due process. As I have said before, I have directly raised the issues and concerns raised by the Johal family. It is not just me; my right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister have done so. As I said in my Answer, the important thing is to ensure that there is a fair trial. Where allegations are made of mistreatment, we will raise them directly. We have a constructive engagement with the Government of India, which allows us to raise these key points and messages directly and candidly.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the fact is that until now there has not been due process and there are clear accusations regarding the way Mr Johal has been treated. In the Minister’s letter to Mr Johal’s MP, he said there are risks and benefits to calling for his release. Can he outline what the risks are? That is critical in our relationship with India and its Prime Minister.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord is well versed in this. There are risks in any issues or challenges we face with any country. They are based on an assessment of what that balance will be and how it will impact the relationship, but equally on non-interference in its legal process. If a judicial process were under way here in the UK, we would not expect countries publicly to call for the release of an individual or to interfere in the legal process; nor do we seek to do that where a due process is being followed. If there are concerns—I fully accept that there have been delays to various hearings—I assure the noble Lord that I have raised them, because to our mind the various delays are causing further grief to the detainee as well as to the family. It is important that this process be completed as soon as possible.

[Baroness Bryan of Partick (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is aware that it is widely believed that intelligence sharing with the Indian authorities contributed to Mr Johal’s detention and torture. Will the Government now acknowledge and apologise for any role that the UK played in his detention and take responsibility for securing his release?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Baroness, in asking the question, is aware that Mr Johal has an active civil litigation case against His Majesty’s Government on this matter and that this is an issue before the court. We must let that process take its course. I am sure the noble Baroness will appreciate that I cannot comment further on the case because of that material fact.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

My Lords, my noble friend mentioned the trade deal which has been going through with India. Can he reassure the House that the human rights dialogue continues and is unaffected? Can he give other examples of cases we have taken up?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can give that direct assurance. As well as being Minister for our relationship with India I am also, as the noble Earl knows, Minister for Human Rights. We have a very structured engagement on human rights. I am not going to go into specific cases, in order to protect some of those individuals, but we have a very productive exchange. We raise a number of cases as well as broader human rights issues, including the key aspects often raised in your Lordships’ House.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, I rise to raise again the issue of arbitrary detention. I know it is rather difficult for us because we are now facing huge delays in our own criminal justice system, but six years is a long time to wait for due process. We keep being told this by the Indian authorities—when the issue was raised by Boris Johnson some years back, he was given the same reassurance that there was going to be a trial very soon. Here we are, six years on and there has not been a trial, so not surprisingly the family have very little confidence in those kinds of reassurance. The international community has confirmed that Mr Johal has been detained in conditions which suggest that he has been seriously tortured. It really is coming to a point where one is expecting something more than polite conversations with the Indian Government. Were we having more than polite conversations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Baroness that whatever the nature or substance of a conversation, I would regard any engagement we have as polite, but politeness does not mean that we cannot be straight and candid in those exchanges. The engagement we have with the Government of India is a constructive friendship; it is a partnership. As I have already said from the Dispatch Box, I fully accept that Mr Johal’s case has continued over a number of years, and I have been engaged directly on this. That is why it is important that we keep it very much on the front burner, and that is exactly why in the bilateral engagement my right honourable friend had with the Prime Minister of India, he raised this.