Kazakhstan

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sheikh (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. I declare that I am a vice-chair of the APPG for Kazakhstan.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom is deeply concerned by and condemns the violence and destruction of property in Kazakhstan during the past week, particularly in the city of Almaty. We greatly regret the loss of life and send condolences to the families of all the deceased. I spoke directly with the Kazakh ambassador to the United Kingdom on 6 January and then with Deputy Foreign Minister Alimbayev on 7 January. As the situation stabilises, we will continue to engage directly with our Kazakh counterparts to gain insights into the chain of events.

[Lord Sheikh (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for his response. On 2 January, there were demonstrations in Kazakhstan; President Tokayev responded positively and took appropriate measures to rectify the situation. He also made some political changes. It would seem, however, that there were rioters, and violent action was taken by the Government against them. As members of the CSTO, they have asked for help from that organisation. I would add that President Tokayev has announced reforms in the Parliament there today. Will my noble friend comment on what I have said? Furthermore—

[Noble Lords]

Too long!

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise the role that my noble friend plays in the region and with Kazakhstan. Of course, as I have already said, we condemn the acts of violence and destruction of property. We have noted, as he did, President Tokayev’s recent speeches, including his recent statement to Parliament and his speech to the virtual summit of the CSTO in which he described the events in Almaty and other cities across Kazakhstan as an attempted coup and gave a detailed outline of the very serious violence perpetrated. We continue to press for ensuring, through the intervention of the CSTO, the territorial sovereignty and integrity of Kazakhstan and the return of all other troops from the CSTO at the earliest opportunity.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in light of the bloodshed and loss of life in Kazakhstan, should we not be more cautious about being too admiring of what Mr Tokayev has been saying? Has the Minister seen the reports of the orders given by him to the 2,500 mainly Russian soldiers in the Collective Security Treaty Organisation to shoot without warning?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree, and assure the noble Lord that in my engagement directly with the Deputy Foreign Minister the importance and centrality of respecting human rights, including the right to peaceful protest, was a point I certainly emphasised. The noble Lord is right to raise the statements that have been made. We are calling for calm and respect for and a return to full rights of protest for citizens in Kazakhstan.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, Kazakhstan’s President said he expected Russian-led forces to leave in the next 10 days. Bearing in mind what the noble Lord just said, what is the department’s assessment of that statement? Last night, I asked the noble Lord about the public register of beneficial owners of overseas entities that buy and sell property in the UK. A recent Chatham House report showed that the Kazakh elite own over half a billion pounds in luxury property in the UK. When will we act on corruption in this country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s first question, of course it was through the CSTO, of which Kazakhstan is an integral part, together with Russia, Belarus, Tajikistan, Kurdistan and Armenia, that the President invited those troops in. We have been reassured, through our engagement with the ambassador, that there is a scaling down and that a return will begin very shortly. On the noble Lord’s point about those who use London as a safe haven, I assure him that we continue to be very vigilant to this. As he may be aware, we have cracked down on illicit finance through, for example, the Criminal Finances Act 2017 and we have already published our ambitious economic crime plan for 2019-22. We will be going further in tackling dirty money. The National Crime Agency, for example, has increased the number of its investigations into corrupt elites, as he termed them, and the Government are reviewing all tier 1 investor visas granted before 5 April 2015.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the deaths in the anti-corruption protests are truly tragic but, as was said, the Chatham House report, The UK’s Kleptocracy Problem, highlights in very stark detail the fact that the corruption reaches as far as here in London. It also says that the Government have failed to act. In its fifth summary point, it says that:

“Westminster—and the Conservative parliamentary party in particular—may be open to influence from wealthy donors who originate from post-Soviet kleptocracies, and who may retain fealty to these regimes.”


When will the Government act, and why does Chatham House draw its conclusion about the vulnerability of Westminster and the Conservative Party in particular?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, our own democracy is protected and robust, and there are specific rules that govern any kind of donations to any party. All parties need to be vigilant and adhere to those. As I have already indicated, the Government have taken direct steps on tackling illicit finance and will continue to do so.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, have Her Majesty’s Government made any assessment of the impact of this instability on the wider region, particularly given Kazakhstan’s proximity to China, its very strong cultural relationships with Turkey, and its importance for the stability of the southern republics and those nations that lie below it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is right to draw attention to the location of Kazakhstan and the impact of the situation on its near neighbours. I have recently assumed responsibility for central Asia in the FCDO and I am seeing how we can work with others, directly and bilaterally with other key alliances and partners, to ensure greater stability not just in Kazakhstan but in the wider region.

[Lord Cromwell (CB)]

Does the Minister agree that this is an example of how regimes that suppress all opposition and brand it terrorism end up creating dangerous and violent outcomes, which are the only opportunity left for dissent?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have said, we have made very clear through our direct exchanges with my Kazakh counterparts the importance of upholding human rights—the right to free protest and the right to challenge Governments. We have been reassured by statements and comments made recently but, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, pointed out, it is about not just statements but actions. We are observing the situation very closely.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, wishes to speak virtually. I think this is a convenient point to call him.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is not one of the drivers behind Kazakhstan’s unacceptable aggression America’s unrelenting desire to foment trouble in former Soviet satellite states? If our policy is to promote democratic values in Kazakhstan, would it not be more effective to foster a very different policy approach from that adopted by the Americans and challenge many of the decisions they are now taking in eastern Europe?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my job is to speak not for the American Government but for Her Majesty’s Government. We are engaging constructively on the principles of democracy, and thriving democracy means that all human rights are respected—the rights to media freedom, to freedom of religion and to protest. We make those points consistently in international alliances and directly with countries, as we are doing today with Kazakhstan.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, where is our moral compass? These are Soviet-style atrocities, yet we are propping up the commercial law regime through our senior judges. The Minister does not appear to be clear enough in recognising that ordinary people are being murdered on the streets of Almaty by a corrupt regime. Should we not be standing against this Soviet-style authoritarianism?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to disagree with the noble Lord. We have been very clear; in my statements I have highlighted, most importantly and centrally, the engagement on adherence. Kazakhstan recognises itself as a democracy, which means protecting human rights and the rights of citizens to protest. We have made that point very clearly. The situation remains fluid, if somewhat more stabilised today, and we are observing it very closely. We will continue to exert maximum influence in our relationship with Kazakhstan and build on it.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, Vladimir Putin suggested that the protesters were external forces. Does the Minister think that Vladimir Putin knows something that the rest of us do not? What does he think the causes of the protests really are?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to point this out. Various descriptions have been given of the protests. As she will be aware, they started because of the energy crisis and fuel prices in Kazakhstan. That perhaps demonstrates —the facts are still emerging—other reasons and concerns that the citizens of Kazakhstan have. As to what the protesters’ reasoning is and who they are, we have noted quite carefully the statements made and I have pressed directly that, if there is evidence of that kind of interference, we should be informed accordingly.

Russia

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 10th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, we also welcome the opportunity to ask the Government questions on its current position regarding Ukraine. Like many noble Lords, I have visited Ukraine on a number of occasions. From our Benches, we recognise and respect its sovereignty and its borders. It is worth noting that it is a border that has seen over 13,000 casualties over the last few years.

The Lords International Relations Committee report, UK Foreign Policy in a Changing World, published when I was a member of the committee, along with my noble friend Lady Smith, stated in paragraph 84:

“Russia is a declining power that is increasingly willing and able to use both traditional and new capabilities—such as cyber capabilities—to act as a disrupter in international relations.”


We have seen this in the Middle East, Central Asia and, especially, in Ukraine, but I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Collins: we have also seen it at home.

Over the Christmas break, I reviewed the annual report of the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament, a committee of which my noble friend Lord Campbell had been a member. Of Russia, the committee said:

“The Report questioned whether the Government took its eye off the ball with regard to Russia, because of its focus on counter-terrorism. The previous Committee found that until recently the Government had badly underestimated the response required to the Russian threat and is still playing catch up.”


When will the recommendations of that committee be met in full? This House has acted to change our rules and procedures; when will the Government act on the other recommendations?

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to the Foreign Affairs Committee's report, Moscow’s Gold: Russian Corruption in the UK, which highlighted the estimate that one-fifth of the 176 properties worth £4.4 billion in the UK that have been bought with suspicious wealth have been from Russian individuals. I asked the noble Lord, Lord Agnew of Oulton, when we would see legislative proposals. He replied:

“I am the counter-fraud Minister, and I am pressing hard to get that commitment.”—[Hansard, 25/11/21; col 1108.]


Will the Minister give an update now on when we will see those legislative proposals, which have been much promised but also much delayed? If the Minister who is responsible cannot give that commitment, what is the block?

With regard to the Ukrainian situation, can the Government update us on the UK’s specific approach to the various talks which are now happening? There has been the French and German initiative, as referred to, with Jens Plötner, the envoy of Olaf Scholz, and his French counterpart, Emmanuel Bonne, travelling there last week. Does the UK have a specific named envoy who is participating in any of these discussions? Are we approaching the discussions purely through NATO, or do we have a bilateral strand of diplomacy?

When was the last time the Foreign Secretary spoke to Annalena Baerbock, the German Foreign Minister? We know from the Foreign Secretary’s reply to the Statement last week that she had taken part in G7 and NATO discussions, but what about our discussions directly with the German and French Foreign Ministers? Has the Prime Minister spoken since Christmas to the German Chancellor about the German initiatives?

Parliament last week debated the proposed ratification of the UK agreement with the Government of Ukraine on their naval capacity. As was referenced in the Foreign Secretary’s Statement, the UK now has an agreement to provide offensive capabilities, including missile equipment and technology, to Ukraine, but if reports are correct, part of the discussions on the table this week are about NATO members and their missile capability with regard to Ukraine and Russia. Is this agreement now part of those discussions, and is our agreement with Ukraine covered within any of the NATO discussions?

On sanctions that could be brought in—a situation which we do not wish to see but may be necessary—what contingencies are in place for UK businesses which are currently operating legitimately with Russia but may then be in a position where, without notice, they are carrying on illegitimate business? We know from previous US actions as a result of decisions made about Iran that wide economic sanctions from the United States can have considerable impact on the UK. Regardless of the merits of these, including the decision on SWIFT payments or transactions through the City of London, how many companies are currently conducting business that may have to dramatically change their approach to trade with Russia?

I noted this afternoon that the Department for International Trade is still, despite the Foreign Secretary’s Statement last week, promoting trade and investment with Russia. Indeed, there are events planned for 18 January for online trade and gaming, for example. What contingency arrangements is the Bank of England or, indeed, the Government providing as advice for British businesses that may be in this position?

Finally, without a clear statement of the UK’s bilateral position, including on the situation in Ukraine, we will not be as strong a partner as the Foreign Secretary’s Statement said we would be. We all support the integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, and I hope that the UK’s actions will deliver on those.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, for their contributions. I reiterate the point that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, made about the importance of coming together within Parliament in standing against Russian aggression. It is regrettable but obvious that we have seen Russia, not just in the context of Ukraine but in other parts of Europe, exercising all measures, as the noble Lord, Purvis, referred to. Indeed, we have seen challenging situations arise, in terms of technology, through cyber, and through the current continued occupation of Crimea.

The build-up of Russian forces within eastern Ukraine, on the borders of eastern Ukraine and in Donbass also adds to the point the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, made about Russian aggression. Let us be very clear that the current challenges and issues that we face come about because of Russian aggression.

In taking some of the questions, I will read Hansard and the specific questions of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, in particular, and respond accordingly. Picking up on some of those questions, first, in terms of our contributions, we are working very closely with our NATO partners. The noble Lord asked about specific conversations with French and German counterparts. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, as has been noted already, has participated directly in the meeting of NATO Ministers. This week is a major week in terms of diplomacy—I stress the importance of diplomacy—and I will come on to the meeting conducted today between the United States Deputy Secretary of State and the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister.

As noble Lords will know, and as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, pointed to, the NATO-Russia Council will be taking place. We are certainly looking to attend at ministerial level to ensure there is that engagement, which also picks up the specific point about engaging with US counterparts. We are doing so directly at Foreign Secretary level and with other colleagues. My right honourable friend James Cleverly has assumed responsibility for our relations with the US and how best to approach those. On 13 January—this Thursday—the OSCE Permanent Council will also take place and it is right that in this week, which is a crucial week, diplomacy is put at the forefront of our engagement to seek to de-escalate the current situation on the borders of Ukraine.

On the outcome of the discussions today, like the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I have, during the course of this afternoon, been seeing some of the statements that have been made by both the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister and Wendy Sherman, the Deputy Secretary of State. I think we have certainly seen a constructive tone but, in terms of substantive decision-making, that has not been the case, nor was it intended. What was important was that dialogues take place.

It has been very clear, picking up some of the strands of what the noble Lords asked me, that membership of NATO and indeed the future direction of that alliance—a defensive alliance, of course—is a matter for the alliance and for member states seeking to apply it. There should be no conditionality put on the security of Europe as a whole or, indeed, the current situation with Ukraine and the de-escalation of the situation on the borders of Ukraine. We are very clear that the sovereignty of Ukraine, a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, should be fully protected and upheld. In this regard, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has made it clear that any further Russian aggression will be met with that unity of action.

Both noble Lords raised the issue of sanctions. Again, I have previously made it clear that where we have acted—in unison with our key partners, most notably the European Union and the United States—we have acted against Russia directly, not just in terms of human rights abuses, but specifically on issues that have arisen in the areas that noble Lords have pointed to, such as anti-corruption, with sanctions in that respect.

Both noble Lords will note, as I am sure will your Lordships’ House, that we have introduced the global anti-corruption sanctions regime and have already sanctioned 14 individuals involved with the $230 million tax fraud in Russia, perpetrated by organised crime groups and uncovered by the brave Sergei Magnitsky. We will continue to review all sanctions in that respect.

Noble Lords rightly pointed out the continuing challenge faced by the City of London. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about open registers of interests. The challenge remains very clear, and London continues to suffer the consequences of the actions of those who seek to use it as a base. We need to continue to be vigilant and to act accordingly. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked specific questions that I believe he has also raised with the appropriate Minister. I do not have that detail, but I shall reply to him and seek to respond accordingly about the actions that my noble friend is taking in that respect.

As for defence capabilities, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked specific questions about our agreements in support of Ukraine, together with the overall agreements we have reached with NATO. What I can share with the noble Lord is that we, of course, co-ordinate very closely with NATO, and our agreements on increasing the defence capabilities of Ukraine are made in concert with our colleagues within NATO, making sure that they are fully aware of the support that we are extending. The United Kingdom was at the forefront of recognising and supporting Ukraine, and we continue to stress to all parties, especially Russia, that its continued aggression on the borders of Ukraine is unacceptable, as is its continued occupation of Crimea.

The issue of the ISC came up again. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, has previously raised that issue, and I have sought to provide the details of the actions the Government have taken. I have placed a copy of that letter in the Library. If there are subsequent questions on the detail that I have provided, I shall of course look to answer them.

Clearly, what we find in the situation on the Ukrainian border is a lack of recognition, so we again implore Russia to look at what has historically been agreed by itself and by Ukraine. We can go back to previous agreements that have been signed, whether those be the Helsinki, the Budapest or the Minsk agreements, and we ask Russia to abide by those. As for the future direction of talks, we are, as I said, looking forward to further discussions this week. Of course, I give an assurance, and recognise that whatever the outcomes of those future discussions, we will report them back to your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, on the subject of Crimea as a casus belli for the United Kingdom, did I hear the Minister correctly when he twice referred to Crimea in that way? Of course, that is history, going back well over 10 years, is it not? There is a long history. As we know, Sebastopol, the Russian naval base, is not the same as the issue of Crimea generally, but it is surely a question distinct from what we might call future threats. Will the Minister comment? Have I understood him correctly?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

If I have understood the noble Lord correctly, Crimea is occupied. It is sovereign territory of Ukraine—

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Non-Afl)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I am seeking to respond. Whether this is historical or current, when an action has been undertaken by Russia, in entering the region of a sovereign state, occupying it and annexing it, the fact that that has been done previously, or historically, should not deter us from ensuring that we continue to stand by Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty and integrity. Crimea remains part of that territorial sovereignty and integrity.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

Does the Minister not agree that the object we are all pursuing is effective deterrence? Does he not think that the deterrent capacity of the western alliance would be greater if we could specify more precisely what economic sanctions would be imposed if Russia crossed the red line we are drawing regarding the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine? At the moment, the Russians can delude themselves—perhaps actually believe—that we will not be able to agree anything in those circumstances. If we were to state now some of the specifics of what would happen, that might be an effective deterrent.

Secondly, does he not agree that we need to go into these talks—heaven knows, they are not going to finish this week—with a détente approach that talks about the things we believe should be done to increase strategic stability, reduce the tension and de-escalate, such as arms control and measures in the conventional forces in Europe agreement concerning notification of military exercises and so on? We need to have that. Perhaps the Minister could say something about what NATO will go in with in its hand.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the question of specific action, as I have already said in response to the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, we will of course look to co-ordinate any actions. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has been very clear that a Russian incursion into Ukraine would be a strategic mistake. There should be no doubt that Russian military aggression will be met with massive economic consequence through co-ordinated —I stress that again—economic sanctions by allies and partners, specifically targeting Russian financial transactions, assets and, indeed, individuals. Beyond that, it would be speculative and inappropriate for me to answer with any more detail, but rest assured that we will act in co-ordination with our allies in this respect.

On the noble Lord’s second question, I agree with him: it is important that we look to de-escalate. As I said, I have seen the early reports of the discussions between the United States and Russia, and the tone of those discussions, from both sides, irrespective of the differing positions—of course, we align ourselves with the position of the United States—was constructive. I also note the comments of the Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov, who said that Russia certainly does not intend to make further incursions. Through these talks, which have taken place through the US, but also further talks this week, we have and will emphasise once again Russia’s own obligations to agreements they have signed, including the Budapest memorandum.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the Foreign Secretary made a very eloquent comment the other day about a “network of liberty” being necessary to contain, curb and undermine the authoritarian regimes. Can the Minister explain how, over and above the obvious NATO alliance, this concept can be developed in relation to Ukraine? Does he agree that the really important message to get into the public debate and the Russian debate is that invading Ukraine will do neither the Russian people nor their leaders the slightest good in terms of prosperity or security, whereas the path to diplomacy might bring considerable benefits for Russia, including maybe a more peaceful old age for Vladimir Putin, and freedom to write his memoirs in peace?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

It may well be that Mr Putin’s memoirs are some way off at the moment, but I totally agree with my noble friend, and that is why it is right that the United Kingdom stand squarely behind the efforts of the United States. Obviously, we will be joining in further discussions, both through NATO and the OSCE, to ensure that diplomacy is given priority; it must be the way forward. Equally, I agree with my noble friend that it is in the interests of not just Russia and Ukraine or, indeed, other parties, but the world that there be a diplomatic solution to the current crisis.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I am all for constructive engagement, but it is worth remembering that this constructive engagement was preceded by the deployment of 100,000 troops, with modern armaments and more than a capacity for invasion, if one can put it that way. It is no secret that Mr Putin’s strategy has been the undermining of the unity of the European Union—in which we have actually aided him by our withdrawal—and the testing of NATO by intimidation. As I have said already, I am all for rational discussion, but it is important to remember that NATO should stand fast as an organisation for defensive purposes only that is open to any country which shares our democratic values and our recognition of human rights. These principles must not be allowed to be watered down in any way in the course of what might appear to be constructive negotiations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Suffice it to say that I totally agree with noble Lord. The NATO alliance is a defensive alliance and it is for countries to make the case to join that defensive alliance. Wendy Sherman, the Deputy Secretary of State, has said today that one of our red lines is very clear: there will be no shutting the door to future membership of NATO. That point has been made very clear in the discussions that have taken place today.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my entry in the register of interests, particularly my association with the Nuclear Threat Initiative and my work for the European Leadership Network.

I welcome this Statement and I agree that Russia’s aggression and actions are a threat to Ukraine and beyond. I also welcome meaningful and robust dialogue with Russia. Having called for this for years, I am delighted to see that, at last, this “no business as usual” policy is no longer defined as meaning that dialogue is somehow a reward for bad behaviour and not a necessity in the circumstances that we have found ourselves in since 2014.

So, having called for it for years, I am delighted that the United States and Russia are having this extended and robust dialogue. I am delighted that the NATO-Russia Council with convene later this week. I am delighted that the permanent council of the OSCE will meet, and I hope that there will soon be talks in the Normandy format. I am pleased to say all of this.

But I am surprised that a Statement made by the Foreign Secretary on 6 January did not include any reference to the fact that, on Monday 3 January, our Prime Minister, President Putin and the leaders of the other three nuclear-armed states issued a rare but welcome joint statement on preventing nuclear war, with a common commitment to diplomacy and avoiding nuclear catastrophe. We have now committed ourselves to that, and I welcome it very strongly. But can the Minister tell us some concrete steps that our Government plan to take to invigorate efforts to avoid the risk of nuclear conflict, as a consequence of that commitment which we have now made?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first of all, I agree with the noble Lord. That statement, which was made at the start of this year by the five countries concerned, was important and welcome and of course in itself represents a step forward.

The underlying purpose of such statements, and the discussions that are currently taking place on de-escalation, is the importance and the central pivot of diplomacy. We cannot at any time stop discussions, even with our greatest foes, if I can put it that way. Discussion is important. Whether it is done through the meetings that are taking place this week or on other challenges and disagreements that we have, including those with Russia, we must continue to engage directly and bilaterally. On the broader point, the UK has of course been at the centre of this. Indeed, on Ukraine specifically, my right honourable is certainly seeking to visit Kiev in the very near future.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I might start by pointing out that it is often a good idea to understand what your opponent actually wants. Last week, it was stated in the other place that recently declassified documents from the US made it clear that, in February 1990, Secretary of State James Baker gave President Gorbachev a categoric assurance that NATO would not, and had no plans to, move east. I do not want to disaggregate that statement, but the fact of the matter is that the Russians feel very aggrieved.

The country of Finland has lived next to Russia for many years without needing to join NATO. Recently, just before Christmas, a man called Jack Matlock, who was the US Ambassador to Russia, published a document about Ukraine in which he pointed out that the Minsk agreements have never been ratified by the Verkhovna Rada. So I say to the Minister: please also recognise that, when we are threatening them with sanctions, there are still things that they could ramp up to cause us damage. The net effect is: please try to cool this thing down and negotiate in good faith to try to get an easing of tension rather than following the line of always ramping things up.

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I listened very carefully to what my noble friend said, but I do not agree. We have not ramped this up, and nor has Ukraine. It is Russia that has ramped this up. I referred earlier to the entry into the sovereign territory of another country, Crimea, and the annexation of that region against international law. That goes totally against the agreements that Russia itself has signed up to. So this is not about ramping up; it is about responding. It is right that we work with NATO and our allies to ensure that Russia understands very clearly that it is Russian aggression that is at the root of this, and this week—we continue to invest in this—we are seeking to ensure that diplomacy is at the centre of finding sustainable solutions to this crisis.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Statement also mentions the western Balkans and the fact that the Prime Minister has appointed Sir Stuart Peach as special envoy. What assessment have the Government made of relations between Russia, Serbia and Republika Srpska, and of the future of Bosnia?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to point that out. Of course, the appointment of Sir Stuart Peach, which she referred to, underlines our commitment to ensuring that we are at the forefront of ensuring the territorial sovereignty and integrity of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Our noble friend Lord Ashdown, who was respected greatly and whom we miss greatly, made some notable efforts, but I repeat what he said when we discussed Bosnia previously: that this was just the bottom line, not the top line, of what we sought to achieve through the creation of Bosnia-Herzegovina, and it is important that we not only sustain but protect it.

We are deeply concerned that we are in the middle of three days of so-called unofficial celebrations in Republika Srpska, which is currently celebrating with Mr Dodik its creation as a republic. It has not been sanctioned; it is unofficial. Indeed, the scenes that we are seeing unfold are adding to the insecurity. As I said previously, again, it is deeply regrettable that this has been spurred on by support directly from Moscow.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, I note that the Statement refers several times to the rule of law, and I am delighted to hear the commitments made by the Minister and the Government. However, it has not gone unnoticed in the Russian press that there have been threats to the rule of law, not least by the Government here proposing legislation that might undermine international treaties. The Statement says:

“The free world must rise to meet the moment. Britain is stepping up and leading by example.”—[Official Report, Commons, 6/1/22; col. 170.]


That is not necessarily how it is seen elsewhere. Perhaps the Minister can comment on that. I do not ask the question to be awkward; I am simply concerned about it.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate raises the issue of the rule of law. As someone who regularly stands up and talks about the protection of the rule of law, I say that when we look at the global stage and Britain’s role on it, it is important that we are also at the forefront of ensuring that, domestically, we are doing everything to uphold the rule of law. We can make the case effectively only if our record also speaks strongly at home. Of course there are comments and challenges on the UK’s domestic position, but I am proud to represent a country where the rule of law prevails and we seek to protect the rights of individuals and communities—indeed, of every citizen—in our country.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is absolutely right to draw attention to Russia’s failure to honour its obligations under the Budapest agreement. Does he agree that we would be in a stronger position if we came to the table with clean hands and did not ourselves fail to adhere to our obligations under our treaty with the European Union?

I have just returned from Odessa, where I was the only UK parliamentarian at a defence conference. I emerged convinced that Ukraine will put up very strenuous resistance to any Russian invasion; indeed, there would be enormous damage to its international reputation. Russia must know this, so why do the Government think that Russia has put forward maximalist demands which it knows cannot be met? Is it an attempt to extract at least some concessions? If there is to be dialogue, there clearly has to be some give and take, but any concessions which we make in response to Russian posturing and threats surely cannot let down Ukraine and cannot give any succour to the ambitions of Mr Putin. So what concessions can there possibly be which can provide a ladder down which President Putin can climb which do not also add to the misery of Ukraine and to the aspirations of Putin?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is not my job to speak for Mr Putin or Russia, and I will not do so. It is clear that we present a united alliance against Russian aggression and we will continue to work with partners in that respect.

[Lord McDonald of Salford (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, reminded the House that the Foreign Secretary’s Statement was a very tough Statement using very tough language. I wonder whether there is a danger that it may mislead people in Kiev and Moscow, because, in the end, Ukraine is not an ally of the United Kingdom and is not covered by the Article 5 guarantee of NATO. Will the Minister confirm that his formulation—massive economic sanctions—is the extent, and that we are not talking about any kind of military deployment to Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks with great insight and experience of foreign policy. I agree that it is important to underline the consequences of further Russian aggression. I have already alluded to the fact that my right honourable friend pointed specifically to the economic cost and challenge, as I have done again today. As a more general point, I concur that one of the cardinal rules of diplomacy I have learned in the past few years is that tone and content both matter.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (CB)]

My Lords, the Foreign Secretary mentioned Nord Stream 2 and the efforts of the UK Government to discourage European countries’ overreliance on Russia for their energy supplies. Have the Government had any talks directly with the German Government about that in recent months?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Baroness will know that the German Government have just gone through a change and that there is a new Chancellor and Foreign Minister. The statements that have been made by the new Administration reflect the concerns that we have constantly reiterated on Nord Stream 2 and the instability it is giving rise to about energy supplies across Europe.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Fookes) (Con)]

My Lords, the time for Back-Bench questions has now elapsed.

Vaccine Distribution

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 6th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Vaccine Taskforce is in constant communication with vaccine manufacturers to carefully manage UK vaccine supply. Due to commercial sensitivities, we are unable to comment on the details of these discussions. The UK manages our vaccine supply so that all procured doses are either used in the domestic programme or shared internationally. We continue to ensure that any vaccine that the UK does not need is, wherever possible, reallocated to other countries that require it.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, how do we justify a vaccination programme that leaves the third world innocently unable to stop disease spread to the unvaccinated in the developed world? If the answer is vaccine supply shortage on the one hand and refusenik human rights on the other, then why not respond by challenging patents, increasing vaccine manufacture and now, while resisting mandatory vaccination, selectively isolating refuseniks where they risk spreading the disease? Or is it that refusenik rights outweigh those of the vulnerable millions who are now forced to work from home, as I am having to do, as the disease spreads?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is important to recognise that, as has been said repeatedly, there is a global response to this; that is why the UK led on supporting the COVAX Facility. The noble Lord refers to the developing part of the world, and he will be aware, for example, of the additional donations promised by the Prime Minister. Some 20% are going bilaterally, and this includes countries such as Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Jamaica and Mozambique. We are also working on technical support, which has ensured the manufacture of vaccines within, for example, South Africa.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister has referred to the commitment we made in the summer of 100 million surplus doses to the world. How many of those 100 million have now been distributed? Are the Government working with companies such as the Serum Institute of India, the largest vaccine manufacturer in the world and producer of over a billion doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine? India has allowed vaccine exports since November, having previously stopped them. Are we using facilities such as that to fulfil our commitment?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we are working with our partners. To date, the UK has delivered 23.3 million doses to countries in need, of which 17.8 million have been delivered via COVAX and a further 5.5 million donated directly. We are aiming to complete the promise of 100 million doses by the summer, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister stated. The Government are directly involved and continue to work with India, particularly the Serum Institute, on the distribution and continued manufacture of the AZ vaccine.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, is it not the case that some vaccines need to be distributed in refrigerated facilities, and is this not a restricting consideration?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right. That is why the Government have worked directly with key countries, because the issue is one not just of supply but of final supply, in terms of the final hour of the vaccine. So, we are working with key countries, including South Africa, to ensure a whole of supply chain response to that issue.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister just told the House that at this time of great urgent need in developing countries around the world, less than one-third of what the UK committed has been distributed to those countries. According to Our World in Data this morning, the percentages of people fully vaccinated are 77% in Canada, 74% in Italy, 73% in France and 70% in the UK, but in Africa it is 9.5%. When will this discrepancy end, and when will the developed world act on a moral basis to ensure that the whole world, especially the developing world, has the kind of access that we have here?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we are working with the developing world. The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, just pointed to our partnership with India, which has been crucial in terms of distribution and manufacture. But we have provided, for example, technical support to develop business cases for the Biovac company to manufacture vaccines in South Africa, to the Institut Pasteur in Dakar, Senegal, and directly to the Moroccan Government. We are also ensuring that our bilateral donations are targeted to the developing world.

[Baroness Lawrence of Clarendon (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from the question from the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, do Her Majesty’s Government consider that vaccine manufacturers should release the IP of the vaccine to help reduce transmission and possibly prevent further variants developing, which would eventually affect the UK in the long run?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I believe the noble Baroness is referring to the continuing discussions at the WTO on the intellectual property rights waiver proposed by South Africa and India. In this regard, we are continuing to engage directly with key partners at the World Health Organization, but the one caveat I would share is that there is no evidence that an IP waiver would help us meet that goal. The reality is that the proposal for the TRIPS waiver would actually dismantle to a certain extent the very framework that has helped produce Covid-19 vaccines at an unprecedented pace.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

Can the Minister give us any good news about the supply of vaccines to places such as Gaza and the West Bank of Palestine and other refugee situations, which are particularly vulnerable because of overcrowding and general squalor?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can share that we are looking particularly at issues of dense populations in countries and at the point the noble Lord raises about refugees. In this regard, we are working very closely with the World Health Organization, and indeed UNICEF, through the COVAX Facility.

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford (Con)]

My Lords, vaccine supply is just one part of the picture. We know from this country that rollout and vaccine confidence are just as important, and the UK has extensive experience in some of the countries with the lowest uptake. Can the Minister say what steps we are taking with the COVAX programme and others to improve uptake?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend speaks with great insight on this issue; let me assure her that we are working on the very basis that she outlined. It is important to recognise what the issues preventing vaccination are. It is not just about supply; it is about distribution, infrastructure and vaccine hesitancy. We are working quite closely, as I said, with the likes of UNICEF but also with NGOs on the ground. Recently, for example, we have also met the Anglican Communion to see what its network can do. I will be convening a meeting of faith NGOs to ensure that we can leverage the networks they have across the world.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the things we could have more of is greater transparency on this issue. Last month, the noble Lord, Lord Sharpe, was unclear on, or did not know, whether Gordon Brown was correct in stating that the UK had 33 million vaccine doses that we could immediately deliver to the rest of the world without impacting our own vaccine programme. The noble Lord also spoke about manufacturing and supporting the Partnership for African Vaccine Manufacturing. Can the Minister tell us today about that road map announced in December? Just how much progress will be made? How many new manufacturing facilities will be open in Africa by the end of the 12 months promised?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the specific issue within Africa, we are working, for example, with the African Union as well as with key countries—South Africa being one of them, as I have illustrated—in opening up those manufacturing facilities. For example, we have given £20 million to the AU fund on the Covid-19 response, which constitutes about 7% of the overall response of the African Union to the Covid-19 vaccine. That includes all issues of supply chain and manufacture. On the issue of excess vaccines which the noble Lord alluded to, I can assure him that there are no excess vaccines that we sustain. Of course, we need to ensure that we secure our domestic supply, but also, at the same time, both bilaterally and through COVAX, that there is a global distribution.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, the WHO and the Africa Centres for Disease Control and Prevention have asked that vaccines have a minimum shelf life of two and a half months on arrival and that countries receive at least a month’s notice. Can the Minister reassure the House that our Government take on board those eminently sensible requests and are acting on them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that the Government always listen to eminently sensible requests and will continue to co-operate accordingly.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

It is time for a non-affiliated question.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, will the Minister give an absolute assurance that in any new creation of vaccines and in all distributions, Northern Ireland will be treated as part of the United Kingdom’s distribution and not be subject to any EU disagreements over the protocol?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness will know, the FCDO has taken on the responsibility of the Brexit negotiations. The very point the noble Baroness raises will be paramount to my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary.

India: Missionaries of Charity

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 6th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of India about the blocking of overseas funds for the Missionaries of Charity and other non-governmental organisations.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are aware of some non-governmental organisations that face difficulties in India due to the use of the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act by the Indian Government, and that some have recently had applications to renew their foreign funding licences rejected. We support a wide range of local NGO partners in India, including through programmes directly. A vibrant civil society is central to any democracy. Officials have discussed issues facing NGOs with the Indian Government, and the British high commission in New Delhi will continue to monitor developments in this respect.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. The work of Mother Theresa and the charity she founded, the Missionaries of Charity, is renowned throughout the world. It works among some of the poorest and most destitute people on earth. What possible reason could the Indian Government have for wanting to hinder and block its work? The rumour, I am afraid, is that it is continuing pressure from Hindu nationalism, because people might come into contact with Christianity and eventually convert to it. We need to know from the Indian Government precisely, in writing, what their reasons are so that we can examine the validity of their reasoning.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I share the noble and right reverend Lord’s view on the important work the Missionaries of Charity has done among particularly vulnerable populations within India. On the issue of the licence in India, I have looked into this specifically, and we do not know why its applications were rejected. I have asked and pressed to see the kinds of numbers that currently exist. Among the 12,580 organisations whose licences have ceased to exist, some ceased to exist because they did not submit their applications in time, and others were rejected for other reasons. There are Christian NGOs, but there are also 250 Hindu NGOs and more than 250 Muslim NGOs, so whether this is specifically against Christian organisations is not shown by the data, but I am requesting further information in this respect.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, civil society organisations provide a lifeline in many societies, including in India, where among their invaluable contribution they have helped to sustain communities and individuals during the pandemic. They are a bulwark against populism, and they defend human rights and freedom of the press. Any and all attempts to curb their powers or indeed crush them have to be condemned. Will the Minister join me in praising the National Foundation for India for the work that it does in strengthening civil society? I am proud to be a distinguished fellow of the NFI.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness will know, in my capacity as not just Minister for South Asia but Minister for Human Rights, I see the issue and important role of civil society organisation as key. I share with the noble Baroness the view that civil society has a central and pivotal role to play in not just standing up for but defending human rights within countries. India is a very good example of a massive democracy where the institution of human rights is key. A key pillar of human rights is ensuring that civil society is not just sustained but able to prosper. That will certainly continue to be part of my engagement with the Indian Government.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, may I pin the Minister down somewhat? This is an issue which has come up repeatedly and over a period of time, so he will be very familiar with it. He mentions officials taking action here. Does he think it right that organisations such as Amnesty International and Oxfam are, in effect, being starved of funds? If he does not, what are we doing at ministerial level to engage with the Indian Government to seek to have these funds unblocked? Is this not what global Britain was supposed to be about: promoting UK values, including human rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness rightly raises specific issues. She mentioned Amnesty International and I can assure her that I have taken that issue up directly with the Indian authorities, including the Indian high commissioner, as well as the Government in Delhi. That issue continues to provide challenge. However, because of our lobbying and representations, we welcomed the recent High Court decision in Karnataka which allowed Amnesty to access some of its funds. We remain in direct contact with Amnesty International and other organisations. I meet with them quite regularly on these and other matters.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I have written to the Minister, copying in the Indian high commissioner, specifically about the life-saving work of Mother Teresa’s community in Calcutta, which I have seen first-hand. I have registered with the Minister my concern about the withdrawal of FCRA licences. Has he studied the list of organisations which have now lost their licences—the number of which some put as high as 3,000, not the 1,200 he just mentioned? It includes Oxfam, which says that its work will be severely affected, and the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative, which has had its bank account frozen. When he says that he and his officials have contacted the high commission and Mr Modi’s office, what response has he received to date? Does he not agree that there will be appalling consequences for some of India’s most vulnerable people unless this iniquitous decision is reversed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are raising these issues quite directly. Because of the constructive nature of our engagement, we are able to raise this not just with the Indian high commission here in London but in a constructive manner with the Indian Government directly. The noble Lord points to specific numbers. As I alluded to earlier, I have asked specifically for a drill-down on the numbers over a period, so that I can analyse directly which organisations are impacted and the reasons why these licences have been revoked, to allow us to make much more qualified representation.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, constructive dialogue with an ally such as India is important. Last year, I raised with the noble Lord, and the noble Lord also raised, the situation of caste discrimination in India and the impact that was having. He said to me then, in relation to the G7 meeting that had taken place, that this issue would be raised on an ongoing basis, so that the dialogue was not limited just to the UK and India but became a much broader dialogue on how we can support human rights in India. Can he tell us whether that dialogue has continued and whether we are working with other allies to ensure that democracy in India is maintained and human rights are supported?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I alluded to in my response to the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, India is a key partner and ally. It is also a democracy with a constitution and that constitution provides protection for all communities, including those of different faiths and, as the noble Lord pointed out, the Dalit community. I assure the noble Lord that we continue to make the case for strengthening human rights constructively with the Government of India. We believe we are strong partners and friends of India, which allows us to make these representations in a constructive manner and strengthen the work we do ourselves with NGO partners in India, to ensure that representation of those such as the Dalits is supported, particularly through specific funding programmes funded by the British Government.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, how does the Indian respect for human rights tie in with the caste system?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as someone who knows that part of the world well, what we have seen in India over time is increased representation of different castes and communities within different parts of the Government and in society. Human rights is never a done deal or a completed job; we need to be ever vigilant across the world and stand up for the human rights of all communities.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, the Government of India have had considerable success in reducing poverty in recent years, but government and indigenous agencies do not reach many of the poorest people in India. In their dialogue with the Indian Government, will the Government ask them to explain how those people will be reached if the agencies currently serving them are withdrawn?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said, I am looking into the figures, but a lot of NGOs continue to operate across a range of different areas across India. India is a very diverse country, with great strengths, and it is very multi-religious, as well as multi-community. We will continue to work and raise issues constructively where we have concerns, including on issues raised in your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, as well as bilateral representation country to country, which can sometimes be misunderstood, will the Minister and the Government explore the possibility of using multilateral organisations, particularly the Commonwealth, to make representations? In this instance, would he have discussions with the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, at the Commonwealth Secretariat and Stephen Twigg, the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, to see how they can help? Sometimes multilateral representations can be better than getting a lecture from the United Kingdom.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s final point, I think we are well away from the time when the UK should be perceived as lecturing others. When we approach the issue of human rights, I do so with a domestic lens. Our own journey on human rights was not an easy one, when we look at the equality that people enjoy across different communities in the UK today. It is that experience that we should share in a constructive and friendly, but in no sense condescending, manner with other partners across the world. The noble Lord talks about the secretary-general of the Commonwealth Secretariat and Stephen Twigg, people with whom I often discuss various issues.

Uighurs in Xinjiang

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and in doing so declare that I am a patron of the Coalition for Genocide Response and vice-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Uyghurs.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we have followed the Uyghur Tribunal’s work and are studying its conclusions carefully. I welcome the tribunal’s contribution to international understanding of the deeply disturbing situation in Xinjiang. The UK has led international efforts to hold China to account at the UN, imposed sanctions and announced measures to help UK organisations avoid complicity in human rights violations. We will continue to work with our partners to increase pressure on China to change its behaviour.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his, as ever, helpful reply. Does he agree that International Court of Justice jurisprudence is clear on when a state has an obligation to prevent genocide? It is, and I quote:

“the instant that the State learns of … a serious risk“

of genocide. Given that the Uyghur Tribunal, led by Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who prosecuted Slobodan Milošević, has conducted easily the most comprehensive examination of the Uighur crisis, having reviewed hundreds of thousands of pages of evidence and declared in a very tightly drawn judgment there to be a genocide, will the Minister, instead of perhaps telling the House again that genocide determination is a matter for courts, tell us whether the Government have performed the required assessment under the genocide convention of whether Uighurs are at serious risk of genocide and, if not, whether they will now do so?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will know my response. Obviously, the British Government’s position on genocide and the declaration of genocide has not changed, but I believe that the tribunal—he will know this from our own exchanges—has again provided what I would describe as the most harrowing evidence of what has happened and continues to happen in Xinjiang, and we are looking at that very carefully.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, what contact have the Government had with Sir Geoffrey and the tribunal? Have there been official meetings? If not, will my noble friend undertake to ensure that he meets Sir Geoffrey at an early date?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can assure my noble friend that we have met Sir Geoffrey Nice—indeed, I have met him on several occasions over various reports and work he does. Our officials followed the tribunal very closely and engaged directly with Sir Geoffrey Nice.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister says that we have led the way, and I certainly appreciate the actions of the United Kingdom’s Government. He has also stressed before that sanctions really become effective when we act in concert with our allies, so can he explain why the United States is able to sanction more people and a broader range of people to stop this genocide than the United Kingdom? Why can we not match the actions of the United States on this important issue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that it is important to work with our allies: the US is one, as are other countries. When we did act together—indeed, we acted with 29 other countries with the sanctions we announced in March—that sent the clearest possible signal. Of course, I am very mindful that the United States has further sanctioned additional individuals, and we will continue to look at the situation on sanctions, but I cannot speculate any further.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Government have accepted that the human rights abuses against these people is carried out on an industrial scale, but in response to a question I asked the Minister on 23 March, he confirmed that no preferential access arrangements for Chinese trade to the UK and access to our financial services have been suspended or notified to be suspended. One of those would allow a state entity in Xinjiang to own more than 50% of a UK pension fund, so why have the Government not even signalled their intent to suspend any preferential access to Chinese finance companies to the British market?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I welcome the noble Lord back and we will catch up on his travels. On 8 December, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Trade announced, via a WMS, a package of measures to update the UK’s export control regime. This included an enhancement to our military end use control that will allow the Government to better address threats to national security and human rights and completes the review of export controls as they apply also to Xinjiang that was announced to Parliament. The point he makes on financial services is a specific point and I will continue to engage with him on that issue, but we are sending quite specific signals and the announcement made on 8 December is a good example of that.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I understand that the BBC has film evidence of the atrocities that have been addressed in the Uyghur Tribunal, but has been reluctant to show the programmes to date, having set the evidential test so unrealistically high that it cannot be met. Will the Minister ask for these films at least to be available for a private viewing to inform parliamentarians, so that people may be better informed in their own thinking and have another source of information?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will certainly reflect on and take back that suggestion. I often see the written details of reports which come through, some of which are quite detailed, and they are harrowing—I use the word deliberately. I can only imagine what some of these pictures would depict, but I will certainly reflect on what the noble Baroness has said.

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

My Lords, I think the vast majority of the population welcomes the Government’s decision to diplomatically boycott the Olympics along with other countries, but do they really believe that Coca-Cola and other major multinational corporations should be sponsoring the Beijing Olympics and thereby indicating support for a Government who are willing to commit the atrocities to which the noble Lord, Lord Alton, referred?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as someone who worked in the private sector, I think it is important that companies look at the responsibility of their own actions. I am sure they will take note of the decision not just of the UK but of other countries to announce that diplomatic boycott.

[Lord Shinkwin (Con)]

My Lords, these findings clearly have major implications for businesses’ ESG policies. When do the Government plan to follow the lead of the US and produce an investment ban list of firms known to be exercising or participating in the worst human rights abuses?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, presenting specific lists is always a challenge, though I hear what my noble friend has said. Certainly, the announcement of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Trade reflects our continued concern in looking at this very carefully and systematically. Equally, I feel that companies, as I just said to my noble friend Lord Hayward, need to reflect on their actions and the business they are conducting.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, given the importance that the FCDO has attached, for example in the Trade Bill debates, to securing unrestricted access to Xinjiang for the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, what steps has it taken to support her in seeking that access? What progress has been made since this was last discussed in Parliament, which I believe was in March?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we championed that proposal and suggestion; it was in my meeting with Michelle Bachelet that we proposed that directly to her. We have been very supportive. She has been challenged by the Covid crisis, which has prevented her travelling. I know that she has agreed in principle and we will continue to make the case, as we have since March, that the first step—I know the noble Lord, Lord Collins, is seized of this—must be for Michelle Bachelet, in her capacity as UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, to be given rights of access to Xinjiang.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, turning a blind eye or looking the other way is no answer; we know that from history. We know what is going on and I welcome the Government’s announcement of the diplomatic and political boycott of the Winter Olympics, but that should just be the start. Do the Minister and the department have a list of activities through which we can keep the pressure on the Chinese Government?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with my noble friend. I assure him, as he will know all too well from our conversations, that it is not a question of turning a blind eye. We are very clear-eyed in our relationship with China; we accept that it makes some important contributions on the global stage, particularly on climate change, but all options remain on the table in what we are considering. As I have said, we have exercised leadership at the UN and resorted to exercising sanctions as and when necessary.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, what assessment have Her Majesty’s Government made of kitemarking products which originate in Xinjiang province so that people can be informed that they may be produced by slave labour? That would help the economy take action in this important area, where we face such atrocities.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate makes an important point on supply chains, ensuring that the sourcing of particular products is clearly identified. This was a matter specific to supply chains which we discussed during the recent G7 meeting of Ministers. I will certainly write to him on his point about identifying products from specific sources.

Bosnia-Herzegovina

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join all other noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth for tabling this debate. I totally agree with the noble Lord, Lord Collins. The quality of this as the final debate today is a reflection of the deep wisdom, expertise and insight of your Lordships’ House.

I can say with great humility and pride that I am the Minister of State responsible for foreign and development affairs in this House, which gives me a unique perspective and insight. We really do draw on the expertise of your Lordships’ House. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, spoke poignantly of his experience of civil society leadership, and we are fully aware of his expertise on some of the challenging situations faced by different communities, particularly the LGBT community. I very much valued his voice, advice and counsel on certain issues and how to resolve them. That reflects the tone of the debate.

Perhaps I may first turn to my noble friend Lord Bourne. He continues to play an important role on this agenda, these issues and their impact, and on standing up for the citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina. He remains vice-chair of the APPG and is president of Remembering Srebrenica.

My dear noble friend Lady Helic is someone who, perhaps I may say on a lighter note, often keeps me on my toes—and rightly so. I pay tribute to her valuable work as a senior adviser to my noble friend Lord Hague, playing a significant role on this issue, which I will move on to in a moment, and setting up the important initiative on preventing sexual violence in conflict. That word, “preventing”, is key as we approach the issue of conflict resolution. I know that other noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, talked of that significant issue.

I am also grateful to other noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Hannay—whose specific questions I will come on to—as regards the United Nations and the insights that he provided on strengthening alliances. They are much valued here. My noble friend Lady Mobarik spoke of her early insights and my noble friend Lord Randall of his early visit as an 18 year-old. Among other things, I began to calculate how long ago that was. Although we are not here to talk about ages, he mentioned his experience. He illustrated valuably the vital importance of Bosnia-Herzegovina. My noble friend Lady Mobarik spoke poignantly about communities living together, learning from each other and coming together. That is indeed what our country—which I am, with all its challenges, still proud to represent—is all about. That was a theme of my recent visit to Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Equally, I pay particular tribute to my noble friend Lady Warsi. She has a unique insight, given her previous role—one that I now conduct. I always have a degree of trepidation when I take on a subject that I know my noble friend has taken on and charge forward with it. Along with my noble friend Lady Helic, I pay tribute to her dedication and devotion. It is not often said but I thank my noble friend Lady Warsi for ensuring that the Remembering Srebrenica initiative was set up. Anyone who has served in government, in your Lordships’ House or the other place, knows how difficult it is to set up an initiative and sustain it. I pay tribute to her. I was there and I saw the dedication and devotion that she put in. It is a live initiative that we as the British Government and the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office are proud to support and is led so ably by my noble friend Lord Bourne.

This debate has highlighted, as the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, said, the importance of your Lordships’ House in bringing insight and experience. Like my noble friend Lady Mobarik and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, I remember seeing that conflict unravel. I was a younger man at that time as well; I had just started a career in the City of London but, together with two charities—one was Save the Children and the other, which I helped to set up, was Humanity First—I embarked on a visit to the western Balkans in response to the crisis. At that age, you do not know what to expect. Little did I know that those two charities would epitomise what was needed and required in that conflict.

My noble friend Lady Mobarik spoke with great emotion and dedication about the work that she carried out. Perhaps I may have a moment of reflection, which I know will resonate with my noble friend Lady Helic, as well as my noble friends Lady Mobarik and Lady Warsi. I remember returning from that conflict and sitting down with my late father, God bless his soul, to recount my experiences of conflict and division. What I had seen was friend turning on friend, neighbour turning on neighbour and even, in some cases, family members who were taken by the divide turning on each other. That was one of two occasions that I saw a tear in my father’s eye—for it was at that moment, 45 years on, that he opened up to talk about the conflict of Partition that he had witnessed. When my noble friends Lady Mobarik and Lady Warsi and others in your Lordships’ House speak of that, it is perhaps a reflection of our own family heritage to realise the importance of avoiding conflict and standing up for the rights of others.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, talked about those issues of conflict. The troubles that people go through run deep through the generations. As I look towards my noble friend Lady Helic, that holds true for many people. It is therefore vital that we keep on the front foot on this important issue.

Noble Lords have rightly shone a light on the serious risks that Bosnia-Herzegovina faces to its stability and integrity. After the devastating conflicts of the 1990s, notwithstanding differences, it was beginning to build peace, stability and prosperity. The Dayton peace agreement, referred to by noble Lords, provided the basis for much of this but it has required co-operation and support from all sides and partners. The late and much-missed Lord Ashdown—I join others in remembering him—described the peace agreement as

“the floor, not the ceiling”—

a base on which to build progress on issues of concern to all its citizens. Sadly, politicians who are more focused on maintaining their own positions have exploited that agreement over the years. At my recent meeting with him, Christian Schmidt recalled referring to the current situation as a “de facto secession”.

We must not be complacent—I assure noble Lords that the Government are not—about the risk posed to peace and the long-term future of the country. The situation is as serious as we have seen since the Dayton accords. Milorad Dodik, the Bosnian-Serb member of the tripartite presidency, continues to threaten to withdraw Republika Srpska, one of the country’s two constitutional entities, from the important state-level institutions.

I know that the decisions taken recently, on 10 December, which my noble friend Lady Mobarik pointed to, cause even greater concern. As my noble friend Lady Warsi said so eloquently, this will undo 26 years of hard-won progress made since that conflict ended. It would significantly harm the state—the symbol of that hard-fought peace that so many people have worked so hard to build and maintain. The state’s integrity must of course be respected, and Mr Dodik’s dangerous plan cannot be allowed to proceed. In this regard, I assure all noble Lords that the people of Bosnia-Herzegovina demand a better future—yes, and we will play our part and ensure that we commit ourselves to just that.

The Prime Minister’s special envoy was referred to and welcomed by several noble Lords. My right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary decided to appoint a very experienced individual in Sir Stuart Peach as the UK’s Special Envoy to the Western Balkans. Indeed, we announced that during the visit my noble friend Lady Goldie and I made to Sarajevo. Sir Stuart is well known to many as a former Chief of the Defence Staff and chairman of the NATO Military Committee. He brings all the necessary skills, experience and gravitas to influence change in the region, working with our networks and Ministers.

I can share with noble Lords that Sir Stuart is actually in Sarajevo as we hold this debate. He is there as an immediate outcome of the Lancaster House meeting, which I will come on to. It is his first visit in his new role. He met a wide range of political, defence and civil society actors. During his visit, he has called on all three members of the presidency and stressed the seriousness of what is happening and unravelling in the country. He was clear that the UK cannot and will not allow conflict in Bosnia-Herzegovina to happen again. Sustained engagement will remain through Sir Stuart and our other senior figures. That will be an important part of ensuring not only that the political dialogue continues but that we head off any signs of conflict.

I fully accept that there are other influences, as noble Lords raised. I will come on to those in a moment. I am sure that noble Lords will join me in welcoming Sir Stuart’s appointment, which many noble Lords alluded to. However, as my noble friend Lady Warsi highlighted, that is just one of the actions. I hope that, with some of the areas I will list, I will give the assurances noble Lords have sought about the action Her Majesty’s Government are taking.

As noble Lords will know, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary convened a meeting on Monday. We spoke directly about the stability and security of the western Balkans. My right honourable friend brought together the Foreign Ministers of all six countries of the western Balkans to boost our close co-operation on trade and security, and to ensure that, through this, we prevent the horrors of conflict returning and together build enduring stability. I assure the noble Lords, Lord Hannay, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins, that we are working directly with the EU. The EU’s high representative on foreign affairs, Mr Borrell, was also present at that meeting.

On other actions, I have already alluded to, and noble Lords mentioned, the recent visit. The commitment not just of the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office but of my colleagues in the Ministry of Defence was shown through a joint visit I had last month to Sarajevo with my noble friend Lady Goldie. We separately met our respective counterparts, but we also met President Komšić directly to discuss how, together, we can safeguard the country’s sovereignty and integrity. I also had a meeting with the chairman of the Council of Ministers, who is himself a Bosnian Serb. He once again assured me, together with the ambassador, of his commitment to ensuring the unity of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

However, there is deep concern. It was perhaps pre-planned, but it was noticeable that, during our visit, Mr Dodik was on his way to Moscow via Belgrade. It was quite clear that he was seeking further support and reassurances from Russia.

My noble friend Lady Goldie marked Armed Forces Day, together with members of the military. We visited EUFOR. We also met troops who are being deployed in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

The noble Lords, Lord Collins, Lord Purvis and Lord Hannay, mentioned the role of civil society. I was privileged to meet members of the Forgotten Children of War Association and Medica Zenica. It was a particularly poignant visit. I remember visiting the very centre that, together with two other Members of your Lordships’ House among others, we helped, through our own relative skills, to decorate and renovate back in 2013. It was quite poignant to return there. I also met once again the courageous survivors of the conflict in the 1990s. They continue to be incredible campaigners.

As my noble friend Lord Bourne mentioned, I too have visited various parts of the country during various times as a Minister. I have also gone directly to places such as Srebrenica. You cannot help but be moved and horrified by what unravelled there. We pay tribute to the Mothers of Srebrenica, as my noble friend did, who continue to this day to ensure that the genocide against the Bosnian people is not forgotten.

Perhaps there is hope. My noble friend Lady Helic is better placed than I to judge, but that it happens to be Srebrenica in that part of the country, which falls within the Bosnian Serb entity of the current country—

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con)]

I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way. I thank him for what he has said so far, but will he say something specific about two issues that came up repeatedly: the commitment of more troops—I appreciate he might not want to indicate exactly where or how many—and sanctions? Those are two very positive things we can give an indication of. I appreciate he might not want to be specific, but something general on that would be welcome.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Of course—my noble friend is right to point that out. We continue our work in that respect; if noble Lords will bear with me, I will come on to those specific points in a moment or two.

I underline our continued commitment on the community side. During our recent visits, we met civil society leaders and the youth of the country. It is important that we continue to engage on all these fronts and show our unrelenting support for the people.

I turn to the specific points referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, which my noble friend has just highlighted. On EUFOR, we are supporting the bodies created by the Dayton peace agreement. We have worked hard in the UN Security Council with our allies to renew the mandate. Questions were asked about the high representative; I met Christian Schmidt while I was in Sarajevo. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, and others talked of their recent meetings; the Foreign Secretary met him during his visit to London. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, that we continue to ensure that we are fully behind the mandate of the high representative. We will not allow those who wish to cause harm to Bosnia and Herzegovina to undermine his authority. While he did not address the Security Council directly, all his briefings were fully provided.

My noble friends Lord Bourne and Lady Helic asked specific questions on NATO. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has said very clearly that NATO must play an enhanced role in Bosnia and Herzegovina and the western Balkans. At the NATO Foreign Ministers meeting in Riga, the Foreign Secretary called on all allies to contribute personnel to the NATO headquarters in Sarajevo. She also urged them to support work to counter disinformation and strengthen defence reform. Many noble Lords—my noble friend Lord Bourne in particular—have called for an increased number of UK troops to be sent to Bosnia and Herzegovina. I can say at this juncture that we will use all UK expertise and resources to support NATO in the country. The fact that I visited it with my noble friend Lady Goldie, Minister of State for Defence, underlines our commitment in that respect.

I will say a word about Russia, which my noble friend Lady Helic and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised. We are seeing a concerning pattern of Russian behaviour, attempting to stop Bosnia and Herzegovina moving closer to NATO and Europe. I assure all noble Lords that the UK Government take an extremely serious view of this and will continue to call out aggression. It is very true that we are seeing assertiveness and added Russian aggression across the European continent.

The noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins, and my noble friend Lord Bourne talked about the important issue of sanctions. I have listened very carefully to noble Lords; if it helps, I also hold the portfolio of Minister for Sanctions at the FCDO. Sanctions are an important part of our toolkit for the western Balkans, to address corruption and destabilising activities. We are in close touch with partners and are discussing all aspects of our response to the current challenges. As I have said repeatedly, we work very closely with our key partners; sanctions work when we work together with the likes of the United States and the European Union.

To conclude, I join others in paying tribute to my noble friend once again for tabling this debate. In doing so, I also pay tribute to the contributions we have heard from across your Lordships’ House in this final debate before Christmas. It underlined the strong commitment across the House and across parties and the unity of purpose and action we have seen. I assure noble Lords that that is shared in the intent and actions of Her Majesty’s Government. I fully accept, as my noble friend Lady Helic said, that there is no short-term solution. We are very much in it for the long term—and we need to be. We owe it to the citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina, who want and deserve peace, security and hope for the future.

I hope that in closing this debate I have underlined that the UK does not just believe that it has a vital role but is already playing a key role in ensuring a co-ordinated and focused international response, as my noble friend Lady Warsi said. I thank noble Lords once again for their valuable contributions, and I assure the House that Her Majesty’s Government will continue to remain committed to the success of Bosnia and Herzegovina for all its people. I will continue to update noble Lords on progress in this respect.

FCDO Staffing

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I take it that the Minister is not going to read out the Statement.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, my apologies—I was just checking what the latest convention is.

“My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has been clear that there will be no 10% staff cut. Internal work has taken place which we are looking at in the light of preparations, but that has not been signed off by Ministers. We are investing massively in overseas aid. At £10 billion a year, the UK remains one of the largest ODA spenders in the world and well above the OECD average. The FCDO must continue to promote a positive, confident, outward-looking global Britain deploying its diplomacy and development expertise to advance freedom, democracy and sustainable enterprise around the world.

To do this, the department needs to ensure its resources, both its funding and its people, are aligned to its priorities. Over the next three years, some areas of the department will see staffing resources increase, reflecting the need to align our people to our priorities. The FCDO will continue to retain one of the largest overseas diplomatic networks of any nation, while also ensuring value for money for the taxpayer. There will not be a 10% staff cut, and Ministers will make decisions on workforce changes in the spring.”

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement.

In the other place, James Cleverly was quite categorical, as was the Minister in repeating the Statement, that there will be no 10% cut, but, as Tom Tugendhat said, this is not a just question about a 10% cut, but about the investment in staff numbers needed to meet the aims of the integrated review and, we hope, next spring’s development strategy. Recent whistleblower revelations about the failures in the Afghan withdrawal point to an FCDO that is overstretched and under-resourced. Which high commissions and embassies around the world will receive more resources and which will see fewer? Which of the desks in the FDCO will be strengthened to meet the strategic threats this country now faces? What we need from this Government is greater transparency and actions that match their words.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note what the noble Lord said but, in planning to 2025, it is right that the department reviews its workforce and capabilities to ensure it has sufficient resources in the right places to deliver both ministerial and integrated review priorities. That is our focus. Some areas of the department will see staffing and resources increase, as I have said, reflecting the need to align our people to our priorities. We will also look to move resources to the department from other areas to meet these priorities.

The noble Lord asked specifically about the network. As he is aware, we have actually increased our footprint in increasing our missions overseas. That reflects equally our ambition, in the strength of what we wish to achieve on the world stage, and the importance of our excellent diplomats and development professionals who, now together as one unit, represent Her Majesty’s interests through high commissions and embassies around the world.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I think that everyone knows that morale in the FCDO is low, that the merger of the two departments was handled poorly and that the report of the whistleblower mentioned is only one example—a public example—of the reality. The Minister wants us to believe that, in two years, that department will be able to plan, implement and deliver an extra £5.2 billion of development spend if we return to the legal 0.7% of GNI. In her Chatham House speech, the Foreign Secretary said:

“The Office itself is a national asset”,


but we know that there are reductions in the capability of that national asset.

Will the Minister now provide public, baseline information on staffing—local and UK staff—the network itself, and roles and responsibilities, so that we can judge the results of this review properly and avoid a situation in which the Government obfuscate on roles, responsibilities and scale? Baseline information would be helpful now and necessary to hold the Government to account.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the FCDO Minister responsible for operations, I can say that we are currently going through our planning both for the next spending review and, as the noble Lord is aware, for the workforce, specifically to ensure that the very priorities he listed are fully resourced. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, talks of greater transparency, as did the noble Lord, Lord Collins. We will certainly provide more details as these plans are finalised.

The noble Lord also mentioned morale. I can perhaps talk with some insight and experience, and I have read the report to which the noble Lord refers, but the fact is that we have some of the best diplomats in the world and incredible development professionals. In preparing for this Question, I asked quite specifically about the level of staff turnover, through the merger, the reductions and the difficult challenges we have had in respect of ODA and, recently, Afghanistan. I can share with noble Lords that, at this time, there is nothing different from the standard level of turnover we have seen over many years, both in the FCO and DfID. That means we are retaining our professionals not just in the Diplomatic Service but in the development sphere.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, my question follows neatly from the response that the Minister just gave, because I note that a freedom of information request, sent by Devex, revealed that 212 former DfID employees have left the department. The response given to Devex at the time was that this was a normal level of turnover, but that is heading towards 10% of centrally employed staff who were formerly with DfID. DfID was very well known for its expertise in global public health, sexual and reproductive rights, and water and sanitation issues. That seems a large loss of people. Will the new, merged department be able to attract the same kind of people with the same levels of expertise, given that it does not have the same focus?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the final point of focus, of course when you have two separate departments, they run two separate mission statements in terms of key priorities. However, through the merger that created the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office the element of development has remained a key priority of the department’s focus. The noble Baroness rightly points out the importance not just of retaining staff but of attracting new staff. I have been looking specifically at the figures for senior management and others. We want to attract the best and brightest into the FCDO, but equally we want to retain the expertise.

I have looked very closely at the issue of development and our development professionals. Even in the challenges that we have had through the ODA reduction, we have sought to retain that professionalism in terms of both programmes and people. As we return to 0.7%, which we intend to do, we need not just the expertise to ramp up the programme but the people to be able to deliver it.

International Day of Democracy

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, democracy and freedom are at the heart of the Foreign Secretary’s vision for a “network of liberty” that would use partnerships, technology, trade and security to promote democratic values. We will be working closely with international partners and civil society, including around the International Day for Democracy in September, to advance the frontiers of freedom.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, last week my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said that she was sure she would be able to succeed in setting up the new

“network of liberty that spans the world.”

What progress do the Government believe will have been made in forming that network by the next International Day of Democracy in September 2022, and what progress do the Government expect members of that network to make in preventing further aggression by Russia against Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend, of course, is correct on both points in terms of the detail she asks for. First, on the network of liberty, it is very much what we all stand for: the principles of democracy, freedom and liberty. The UK can show quite direct leadership over the next year through the various events we are hosting; for example, on human rights, ranging from the FoRB conference to the LGBT conference. There is also our leadership on media freedom as we build towards strengthening democracy and key pillars in the build-up to the next democracy summit.

Secondly, on Ukraine, my noble friend will be aware of the recent meeting convened by my right honourable friend of key Ministers on the issue of Ukraine and standing together against Russian aggression. However, as I have said before from the Dispatch Box, right now in Europe, particularly with the concerns around Ukraine and recent concerns in a country that my noble friend knows well—Bosnia-Herzegovina—Russian aggression needs to be curbed and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said as such in his conversation with President Putin on 13 December.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in advance of this weekend’s sham elections in Hong Kong, will the Minister call for the release of Hong Kong’s legitimate and democratically elected representatives, who are incarcerated in prison? Following what the Foreign Secretary calls China’s “ongoing breach” of the British-Sino declaration, when do the Government intend to raise an objection under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties—and would not that send a much stronger signal about how to safeguard liberty and democracy than allowing states to trash treaties with no consequences whatever?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, which is why we have consistently called for adherence to the agreements that China has signed. Indeed, the one that it signed when it came to the issue of Hong Kong was an agreement that has been lodged with the United Nations —and it needs to stand up and fulfil its international obligations. On the issue of calling out for the full release of those who have been detained, I agree with the noble Lord, and we consistently do so publicly and bilaterally with China.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

Not to take away too much from anything that has been said, before we look too much at the mote in other people’s eyes, might we just look at the beam in our own? The attempt to undermine our human rights legislation will not be received well around the world. We have two reports here written by Members of our House with between them 500 years’ service in Parliament, one called Democracy Denied? and the other Government By Diktat. Can we do something about our own democracy before we preach too much to others?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that, when it comes to the world stage, we have nothing to preach about. I often say that we need to ensure that we make it clear, when we talk to others on a range of the key pillars of democracy, that our own journey was something of a struggle, to get to where we are in 2021. The job is never done. One needs always to reflect on one’s own backyard before we start talking about the importance of democracy elsewhere. That said, I believe that the United Kingdom is and remains a real beacon of democracy around the world, and we continue to share our experiences, lessons and history with others to see how we can strengthen democracy globally.

[Lord Oates (LD)]

My Lords, it is fitting that we should discuss the International Day of Democracy as we remember the legacy of Nelson Mandela, who was laid to rest eight years ago today. Does the Minister agree that we could best honour his memory by supporting democratic Governments in southern Africa and standing with those in the region and across the world who strive for democracy against repressive regimes? Will he urge the Prime Minister to send a clear and unmistakable signal of that solidarity by visiting Zambia at the earliest opportunity to meet its recently elected President and visibly demonstrate our support for the people of Zambia and its democracy?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord. It is vital that we stand with democracies, particularly fragile or infant ones around the world, to see how best we can support them. The noble Lord talks about Zambia, and of course we have worked very closely with other key partners in ensuring that democracy not only prevails but is sustained. Indeed, there are notable achievements; most recently, for example, further afield in Africa, in Sudan, the continuing lobbying has resulted in a sense of the restoration of the legitimate Government—but you can never take your eye of the ball, and the noble Lord makes some very valid points.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

The network of liberty is an extremely powerful concept, but does it not exist to some extent already? Is not the growing Commonwealth co-operation on security and defence, which is developing all the time, already part of that network—and is it not an important part of the future story?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. Indeed, my noble friend Lady Anelay and I had a brief discussion on this very question about 24 hours ago. The United Kingdom has been over time a strong beacon in supporting democracy around the world, and the Commonwealth network is a huge example of how we strengthen democracies and human rights.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Does the Minister agree that the Council of Europe is an important agency for promoting democracy? Is it not significant that Belarus is the only country in Europe not a member of the Council of Europe? Following the illegitimate election of President Lukashenko, what are the Government doing to try to ensure the return of democracy in Belarus?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s first point—it is not often that I say this to him—I totally agree with him. He knows my views on the Council of Europe. On Belarus, the United Kingdom has worked very strongly and closely with key partners, including the G7, in calling out the flagrant betrayal of democracy and the continued reliance on Russia. It comes back to the point that my noble friend Lady Anelay raised about Russia and Russian support. It is therefore important that we build alliances, strengthen coalitions and co-operation, and send a clear message to Russia that its aggression, particularly in Europe—but also elsewhere around the world—will not be tolerated. In doing so, however, we must build alliances and partnerships.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister tell the House whether we were consulted before last week’s summit of democracies about the division between the democratic sheep and the undemocratic goats? Did we endorse the choice made by the United States?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, while the United States played the role of the shepherd, I assure the noble Lord that we were very much not just part of the flock, but part and parcel of the decision-making and setting of the agenda of the democracy summit. I myself met with Uzra Zeya, the lead Under-Secretary of State for this summit, and discussed in detail issues of media freedom and illicit finance, which were very much part and parcel of the discussions at the summit.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, in her speech, the Foreign Secretary said she would be launching the new development strategy in the new year and that this will focus on providing women and girls with the freedom they need to succeed. Malnutrition is the single largest cause of death in women worldwide and is linked to 45% of the deaths of all children aged under five. Can the Minister explain the Government’s failure to make any financial commitment to this month’s Nutrition for Growth Summit? This is a summit that this country initiated and led on, but it is not now providing leadership on it.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s point about the international development strategy, yes, that is being worked on and we are looking to publish it early next year. The points that the noble Lord raised about nutrition will be very much integrated into our strategy. The noble Lord talks about the important leadership we have given on the agenda for the summit on nutrition. I accept that, whereas previously we have been able to give quite specific financial support, on this occasion—due to some challenges that we faced with the reduction in ODA spending—we have not been able to provide support in the manner that we have done previously. However, that does not take away from the fact that nutrition will part and parcel of our integrated strategy on development across the world.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the rule of law must apply in a democratic country, along with the freedom of the press. That does not happen in Zimbabwe. Will the Minister and the Government condemn the fact that Covid is being deliberately used in many countries, particularly Zimbabwe, to stop by-elections and the normal democratic process?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I absolutely condemn such actions. The use of the Covid pandemic as an excuse to suppress human rights and democratic rights around the world is all too apparent. That is why we need the kind of alliances that I have just talked about and that my right honourable friend illustrated in her recent speech. Specific to Zimbabwe, as the noble Baroness will be aware, we have also used our new, autonomous sanctions regime to ensure that those who commit egregious abuses of human rights are held to account.

Covid-19: Vaccine Donations

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many of the 100 million COVID-19 vaccines they have committed to donate to the rest of the world have been delivered and where they have been sent.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom has delivered over 21.2 million doses to recipient countries. Some 16.6 million have been distributed through COVAX, a further 3.4 million doses are with COVAX for allocation and distribution and another 6.3 million will be delivered to it directly from AstraZeneca in the coming weeks. In addition, 4.6 million doses have been delivered bilaterally to 17 countries, including Jamaica, Kenya and Indonesia.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, unvaccinated populations will mean more variants and we must redouble our efforts to help to vaccinate the world. Will my noble friend agree to update the House in writing at the end of this calendar year, and at the next deadline of June next year, with details of how many vaccines the UK has shipped and indeed delivered? Responsibility for global vaccines seems to sit across multiple departments: FCDO, DHSC, BEIS, DIT and of course the Treasury. We have seen the success of our domestic vaccine efforts, thanks to a focused and dynamic Minister, so will the Government consider giving one Minister responsibility for global vaccination?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s first point, yes, of course, and I shall write to her with an update. We have already responded to the Foreign Affairs Committee’s report on this issue. I will take her suggestion of one single dynamic Minister for global vaccines back and share it with the department.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, what progress has been made so far on helping countries to provide their own capacity to build their own vaccines so that it is not left to other countries to donate but, instead, they would be able to manufacture their own?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point. The UK has engaged and continues to engage thoroughly on the issues around the TRIPS waiver, which has been discussed. We have certainly seen how we can work though transferring technology, for example. Indeed, early on in the pandemic, that same working together aided the world, in bringing together India and the UK on the Serum Institute of India initiative with the University of Oxford.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, in the wake of the new omicron variant, which undermines existing vaccination efforts, will the Minister support the temporary TRIPS waiver proposed by South Africa and India to the WTO and supported by more than 100 countries, including the US? This would allow for widespread manufacturing scale-up regionally, ensure that all countries could get access to the vaccines they need to protect their populations and reduce the risk to all of us of new variants emerging.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I share the noble Baroness’s concern. We are engaging pragmatically on the TRIPS waiver. However, when looking into some of the hurdles that developing parts of the world have faced, we see that the main issue is still a lack of skills, in terms not just of health infrastructure but physical distribution of the vaccine even once it is in country. Vaccine hesitancy is also a large barrier. As I have said, we are engaging on the TRIPS waiver, but we are very clear that any negotiation should not lead to a reduction in the quality of the vaccine.

[Lord Flight (Con)]

My Lords, who decided that this country would donate 100 million Covid vaccines to the rest of the world and who chose which countries should be the beneficiaries?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the 100 million vaccines, as my noble friend will be aware, this was very much part of our drive during our leadership at the G7 and it was announced by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. On distribution, we are looking at key factors. Ultimately, we look at our own ability to provide vaccines, both through COVAX and bilaterally. We then make a decision on the availability of those vaccines as well as the ability to distribute them across the world. That decision is taken by the FCDO.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, as we have heard, the two key issues in reaching the target of 70% of the global population being vaccinated are delivery mechanisms and manufacture. At the Foreign Ministers meeting at the G7, Liz Truss stressed the importance of strengthening health systems, which is vital to ensuring that vaccines are administered. What she did not address is how we are going to do that. Can the Minister commit his department to giving us a strategy of implementation so that we are confident about reaching the target in June of 70% of the global population?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very practical point, and I share his view on the importance of having the necessary infrastructure around the world to ensure equitable and safe distribution of vaccines. We are working closely through the COVAX facility as well as the World Health Organization to ensure that we can support that principle fully. Equally, prior to our bilateral donations being made, we go through quite thoroughly the infrastructure in a given country and its ability to ensure the safe and equitable distribution of the vaccine once it arrives.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, it is not just a matter of quantity, supply and logistics but, as the Minister indicated, of vaccine hesitancy. What consideration have the Government given to working with partners such as the Anglican Communion, which is well placed at local level to work with local leaders to use the right language and to persuade local people to take the vaccines?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate will know what a strong supporter I am of the Anglican Communion and other faith-based institutions in different countries as key partners on not just vaccine issues but civil society issues. I will certainly take back what the right reverend Prelate has said, but let me assure him that we are working with the Anglican Communion and other faith communities to tackle vaccine hesitancy. Indeed, we experienced it here in the UK as well, and the churches and faith groups played a sterling role in ensuring that it could be overcome.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, this country is in the midst of a damaging and costly response to a new variant of Covid-19. If we are to avoid a constant stream of disruptions of this sort, is it not in our country’s strategic interest that we work urgently to ensure the vaccination of the rest of the world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Baroness.

[Lord Oates (LD)]

My Lords, in response to my question on vaccine equity on 2 December, the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Sharpe of Epsom, said:

“I think, actually, the first duty of a Government is to protect their own population.”—[Official Report, 2/12/21; col. 1456.]

Does the Minister recognise that omicron demonstrates that Governments cannot protect their own populations unless they first understand that, in a pandemic, acting in the global interest is the only way of protecting the national interest? If he does recognise that, why are the Government cutting support for African health services at their time of greatest need in delivering vaccines to their people?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, we allocated specific support for African nations and have continued to support them in that respect. On his first point about my noble friend’s response, it is important to secure domestic vaccinations, but I agree with what he has put forward: we are only as safe as everyone else is. Therefore, we must support other countries, but this is not a binary choice; we can do both. We can secure our own populations and help those elsewhere in the world as well.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, is it any wonder that we face a tidal wave of omicron when we have provided only one-fifth of the vaccine doses promised to countries overseas? Did the Minister hear the evidence given by an expert to the Select Committee in another place that it was very short-sighted of the Government not to support the facility at Livingston in Scotland which was ready to provide hundreds of millions of doses that could be sent overseas? Will he ask his colleagues in the departments concerned to think again about keeping that facility open?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, one thing that the challenge of Covid-19 has shown is our interdependency and the need to work together. We have certainly demonstrated that. On the noble Lord’s first point about short-sightedness, on the contrary, when my right honourable friend the Prime Minister returned from his own challenge with Covid-19, the first thing he did was to spearhead the COVAX facility. That is doing exactly what the noble Lord suggests in ensuring that the most vulnerable are supported. I shall follow up on his specific question about the Livingston facility.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, there have been reports in the press that the problems in sub-Saharan Africa relate not to supply but distribution. Which is the difficulty, supply or distribution of vaccines?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there is a need to do more on supply to ensure equitable distribution of vaccines. However, as I have said in earlier answers, there is equally a real challenge with infrastructure in developing parts of the world to ensure that, once vaccines arrive, they can be distributed around the country.

Nepal

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made towards their commitments to providing (1) health services, (2) water and sanitation, and (3) access to justice, for marginalised communities in Nepal, including Dalits and Adivasis.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK targets our development support at the most marginalised communities in Nepal, including Dalits, Adivasis, Janajatis and people with disabilities. The United Kingdom provides significant support to the Ministry of Health to strengthen systems and ensure universal health coverage, particularly for the most vulnerable. We provide £45.5 million in targeted security and justice assistance, and in 2021 we also repurposed our support to ensure that water, sanitation and health facilities reached 400,000 people, prioritising the most vulnerable in light of Covid.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. The Dalits and Adivasis comprise about 14% of the population of Nepal, and they suffer the same kind of extensive humiliations as they do anywhere. In theory, the constitution acknowledges the rights of Dalits, but nobody has yet been appointed to the National Dalit Commission that was set up, and although a National Human Rights Commission has been set up, there are no representatives from the Dalit communities. Will he please press the Government on these issues?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble and right reverend Lord’s work in his role as chair of the APPG for Dalits. I think there are some encouraging signs from Nepal. He will be aware that in 2017, when local elections took place, about 22% of those elected to official local government positions were from the Dalit communities, so there is some progress. But he makes a very valid point and of course we will continue to lobby on strengthening human rights, not just for the Dalit communities but for all vulnerable communities in Nepal.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as Colonel Commandant of the Brigade of Gurkhas. I am very grateful to my noble friend for the 100% renewal of the WASH programme delivered by the Gurkha Welfare Trust, as I am for the donation of ventilators, other medical supplies and some vaccines by COVAX. When will we fulfil our duty of care to the 30,000 Gurkha veterans who live in Nepal, through a bilateral donation of vaccines to Nepal to enable them to be vaccinated as well?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I pay tribute to my noble friend’s work and, indeed, that of others in your Lordships’ House who drew specific attention to the plight of Nepal during the crisis in the summer. I assure my noble friend that we continue to prioritise help through the COVAX Facility for Covid. Also, the UK recently made a bilateral donation of 131,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, Helen Grant, the Prime Minister’s special envoy on girls’ education, visited Nepal in October, and she met activist women and girls on education and climate change. Did that include representatives of the Dalit community, and did she use that opportunity to press the Government of Nepal to ensure that we leave no one behind and that everyone is included in dialogue on the future?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the specifics of my honourable friend’s meeting, I will certainly make sure that that was included and write to the noble Lord. On the more general point, in all our engagement—including on the importance of girls’ education and preventing gender-based violence—all communities, including the most marginalised, are of course included.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I urge the Minister to return to the question asked by my noble and right reverend friend Lord Harries of Pentregarth, specifically about the two bodies which have been established—the National Human Rights Commission and the National Dalit Commission—on which there are no Dalits. Will he undertake to raise that specifically with the Nepalese Government and to ascertain why these constitutional promises have not been met? On the issue of Covid, what percentage of the 14% who are Dalits or Adivasis in Nepal have been vaccinated? What do we know about the number of fatalities that have occurred in line with the rest of the population? Is it not time that untouchability and caste were made history in the 21st century?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already made clear, I will follow up on the noble and right reverend Lord’s earlier point, specifically on representation. But I sought to illustrate that we are seeing some positive examples of inclusivity, albeit at a local level thus far. On the issue of the Covid-19 response, I can confirm that 24% of our support targeted particular vulnerable groups, including Dalits, Janajatis, Madhesi and Muslim minorities in Nepal.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is aware of the SAHAJ programme—Strengthening Access to Holistic Gender Responsive and Accountable Justice; it is delivered by Voluntary Service Overseas in Nepal as part of the UK aid programme and has worked very successfully with hundreds of thousands of men and women and girls and boys. Many of those, particularly the women and girls, are from the Dalit community. Programmes such as this are in jeopardy if the Government do not sort out their UK aid funding. VSO found out about its funding after the last programme had ended. It needs to know that the money will be continued, and it needs to know in time so that it can work with its partners effectively in Nepal.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that I am engaging directly with VSO on the priorities. I value it, and I am sure that all noble Lords acknowledge its valuable work. On the specifics of the programme in Nepal, I assure the noble Baroness, both as Minister for South Asia as well as Minister for civil society organisations, that I will look at that very closely.