Oral Answers to Questions

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Tuesday 4th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

It is absolutely right that we increased and stepped up the sanctions last week. Also, under the loan agreement we made with Ukraine last week, the loan will be repaid with the profits on foreign sovereign Russian assets. Russia should pay for the damage it has done.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

My constituent is one of hundreds of people who suffered from the collapse of Collateral. While the Financial Conduct Authority has apologised to investors for failing to act faster to stop Collateral’s fraudulent activities, I am concerned that, without internal changes, the FCA will make similar mistakes again. Should there not be an investigation into the FCA’s handling of the case?

[Emma Reynolds]

I am happy to meet the hon. Lady and look at the case she mentions, because I need to get more detail.

Christmas Adjournment

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Thursday 19th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

This week marks the end of Disability History Month, which has given us all a chance to highlight the experiences of disabled people and to support disability rights. In Bath, 30% of all households include at least one person with a disability.

I recently visited Carrswood day service to learn more about the incredible work it does to support adults with learning disabilities in the city. The service also provides respite for unpaid family carers, who are often the primary caregivers—where would we be without our unpaid carers? The visit also highlighted the Rake Up and Grow initiative—a vocational project that helps adults with learning disabilities gain practical skills through community gardening projects. The project not only helps build skills, but promotes social inclusion and community engagement. By working with local organisations, such as the Royal United hospital, Bath Rugby Community Foundation and others, Rake Up and Grow provides fantastic opportunities for disabled people and people with learning disabilities.

Bath and North East Somerset Third Sector Group—3SG—is a voluntary, community and social enterprise infrastructure network for around 250 charities, providing one-to-one support, training, events and wider advocacy work in the sector. Charities are the ever-constant, extra support going above and beyond every single day. Now more than ever, charities are needed to pick up those waiting for statutory services, or just those who are falling through the cracks. They employ highly skilled workers and strategic thinkers, many of whom are delivering daily lifesaving interventions and deserve to be equal partners in any conversation with the Government and the NHS.

The work of the third sector cannot be overstated, but charities are now at breaking point. For too long they have been asked to do more for less. The third sector applauds better wages for all but urges the Government to reconsider its non-exemption from national insurance increases. I know that 3SG BaNES has surveyed its member charities in Bath and north-east Somerset, and those affected by the Budget will need to find between £4,000 and £400,000 in extra costs every year. Those are big amounts of money for organisations that already have to survive on dwindling resources. So 3SG urges the Government to consider the pressure that they will put on the third sector, including hospices, if they do not lift the NIC increases. I and the Liberal Democrats urge the Government to consider that again. As someone has said, the Government always say no before they say yes, so I am hopeful.

When I think of all our local charities and the good they do, I wonder where we in Bath would be without them and all the wonderful services they provide. I thank all those who work in the charitable sector and in voluntary organisations, all family carers and all those who look after people who are sick and need our support this Christmas. I wish them all a very merry Christmas.

I wish you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and everybody across the House, a merry Christmas.

National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Committee of the whole House & 3rd reading
Tuesday 17th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Joe Morris]

I have never turned down an opportunity to slag off the Opposition. I am always happy to do so.

The ultimate reason that the Budget was necessary was to raise the extra money to invest into the NHS. The extra infrastructure investment will support our rural communities, our rural GPs and our care homes. That is the fundamental point of the Budget. It is a reset moment to properly support our public sector once more, which the Conservative party failed to do, as the right hon. Gentleman well knows. We need to restore faith in our NHS and our small businesses that were so badly let down. I have spoken to many across my constituency who share my optimism about this Government and who are convinced of the need for that investment. [Interruption.] Opposition Members can chunter all they like, but it is true. Ultimately, those businesses know that we need to invest in the state in order to drive up standards and confidence and provide the stability that the country so desperately needs.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

The hon. Gentleman mentions public trust; we all understand how important it is to restore that, but how can that happen if the very things needed to support the public and restore trust—our hospices and the charitable sector—are being hit by this Government’s measures?

[Joe Morris]

As the hon. Lady well knows, when one inherits a difficult context, one has to take decisions that one did not want to take. The public understand that the NICs rise was important and was needed because of the circumstances that we inherited and to repair the black hole that we found in the public finances. Spending the national overdraft three times and not telling anyone about it is what has fundamentally undermined public trust.

Finance Bill

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Committee of the whole House
Tuesday 10th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we are asking oil and gas companies to make a fair and reasonable contribution towards our transition to clean energy. That transition is under way, and it is important for oil and gas companies to make a contribution, but that should happen in a way that protects the jobs and industries of today and tomorrow.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

The oil and gas giants were making eye-watering profits when the Conservative Government finally introduced a levy, although it had a loophole that let the oil and gas companies off the hook. The Government should support the Liberal Democrat amendment, which demonstrates how much of a missed opportunity that was, and how much money we could have raised, had the loophole been closed earlier.

[James Murray]

I am not entirely clear that that is what the Liberal Democrat amendment does. We have been clear that our intention is to end unjustifiably generous allowances. That is exactly what we are doing by abolishing the core investment allowance, which was unique to oil and gas taxation and is not available to any other sector in the economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Harriet Cross]

Absolutely; sometimes there is a complete disconnect in this place between how much we can tax and squeeze something dry and what that does to investment. These companies, especially the global ones, do not have to invest in the UK—they can invest across the world. They are choosing to invest here at the moment, and therefore we get jobs, opportunities and employment. That investment can go abroad, and if it does, it will take jobs with it, to the detriment of all of us, but particularly us in north-east Scotland.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Does the hon. Lady not recognise that we are in a transition period, which we need in order to get to net zero? Of course, we need to protect jobs, but the transition to net zero is essential.

--- Later in debate ---

In closing, I ask the Minister to address this point directly: what impact assessments have the Government made of the investment horizon for oil and gas in the North sea?

[Wera Hobhouse]

I rise to speak briefly in support of new clause 2. I welcome the Government finally scrapping the unfair investment allowance loophole for the oil and gas giants, which the Liberal Democrats have advocated for and called for since the previous Government introduced the levy—too late, and half-heartedly—in May 2022. Oil and gas companies made eye-watering profits off the back of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and global supply chain problems that caused energy prices to soar. While the oil and gas giants saw record profits, my constituents in Bath and others across the country faced a cost of living crisis.

The previous Government have a lot to answer for. They sat and watched as the oil and gas giants lined their pockets off the back of people struggling with their bills. It did not have to be that way. [Interruption.] Conservative Members do not want to hear it, but it did not have to be that way. Those were the political choices the previous Government made.

The measures announced by the Government in this Bill are welcome, in particular the removal of the 29% investment allowance except for investments on decarbonisation. This has been a Liberal Democrat policy, and I am pleased the Government have picked up on it and that it will now become a reality.

We Liberal Democrats were the first to call for a tax on oil and gas windfall profits back in October 2021. While the previous Government did eventually introduce the energy profits levy, they did so half-heartedly and woefully late in May 2022. It matters that we repeat that again and again: it is something that the previous Government failed to do. That Government let the oil and gas giants off the hook by putting in place a massive loophole in the form of the investment allowance. It was thanks to that allowance that in 2022, Shell admitted it had paid zero windfall tax, despite making the largest global profits in its 150-year history of £31 billion. That cannot be right while our constituents have been struggling to pay their bills.

My hon. Friend the Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper) has tabled new clause 2, which would require the Government, as we have already heard, to produce a report about the fiscal impact of the Bill’s changes to the EPL and relief for investment expenditure. We cannot lose sight of the bigger picture. To avoid a repeat of the energy crisis, we must end our reliance on oil and gas. Investing in renewables would mean cheaper energy across the country. We would no longer be reliant on dictators such as Vladimir Putin who use natural gas as a weapon. As well as being more affordable, renewables are the best route to energy security. It is very disappointing to hear Conservative Members advocate for business as usual. We need to transition away from oil and gas.

[Harriet Cross]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way. At what point does she believe we will be fully reliant on renewables?

[Wera Hobhouse]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. It is absolutely by putting in place the measures for transition that we will meet net zero. If we continue with business as usual and continue to listen to people who ultimately do not understand that unless we get to net zero our whole economy will suffer, then people will suffer. We will also have big, big problems with issues such as huge migration if climate change can rule unchallenged. This is why the Liberal Democrats believe the transition to net zero is important and why we need to put measures in place to make that happen. It is disappointing that the Conservatives, as the previous Government and now the Opposition, still do not understand how urgently we require climate action.

[Dave Doogan]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. What is her understanding of what will happen to domestic consumption of oil and gas products in the United Kingdom if the domestic industry atrophies but domestic demand still exists? What will happen in that scenario? Where will the oil and gas come from, or will we just give it up overnight?

[Wera Hobhouse]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. The whole argument is that we will continue to rely on oil and gas for the time being, but unless we start to change something, on the current projection we will not get to net zero as urgently as we need to. Progress has been too slow, so the longer we hesitate the more difficult it will become. The new Government have understood that urgency, and the Liberal Democrats support them in dealing with this issue with more urgency than we saw from the previous Government. I therefore repeat that we support the measures, but we would like the Government to support our new clause 2. As I said, it will show what we can raise by closing the loophole. It would by extension, as my hon. Friend the Member for St Albans clarified, show what has been squandered by the previous Government—money that could have been invested.

[Tristan Osborne]

According to the New Economics Foundation, the previous Government’s levy raised £10.6 billion for the oil and gas industry, but the industry invested only £3.6 billion of that in new capital projects, taking the remainder as sheer profits. Does the hon. Lady agree with me that that is exactly why it was a foolhardy proposal? The profits made did not go into investing in new capital assets, but largely went into shareholders’ pockets.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wera Hobhouse]

Indeed. I could not agree more and I thank the hon. Gentleman for clarifying the figures. That is why something needed to change and something needed to give. I repeat that I hope Government Members can support our new clause 2, because it matters. It will lay open what has been squandered and what difference we could make if we close the loophole.

[The Chairman of Ways and Means]

I call Yuan Yang.

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[Sammy Wilson]

It is not just that they have not been tried and tested. There is also an acceptance—indeed, it is the Government’s own stated position—that even with those technologies, we will be reliant on, and will need, oil and gas not until 2030 and not even until 2040, but beyond 2050. If we do not extract as much oil and gas from our own resources here in the United Kingdom, where will we get it from? We will get it from abroad, which brings us to the issue of energy security.

The places where energy is likely to be produced will not be stable countries, countries that will always be favourable towards us, or countries that are ruled by rational rulers. It will come from countries where rulers are irrational, and take political decisions about who they do or do not trade with on a whim. The idea that we will rely on fossil fuels until well beyond 2050 but not produce them ourselves—in fact, we are going to discourage companies from producing them in the United Kingdom, even though we know that we have the resources—and somehow or other we will still guarantee security of supply, and security of energy, for our constituents is just madness.

[Wera Hobhouse]

I have a very simple question to ask the right hon. Gentleman: does he believe that climate change is happening and that we need to get to net zero by 2050, or does he believe it is all a hoax?

Economy, Welfare and Public Services

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Monday 22nd July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

The shift to a green economy represents the most significant transformation for centuries. We must reverse the damaging rhetoric by the failed Conservative Government that the economy will suffer if we are uncompromising in our ambition to get to net zero. This is not an either/or of economic growth or investing in the green economy—the green economy is at the heart of economic growth.

We must end our reliance on oil and gas. Renewables would mean cheaper energy bills across the country, and we would no longer be reliant on dictators such as Vladimir Putin who use natural gas as a weapon. As well as being more affordable, renewables are the best route to energy security. Under the Tory party, renewable projects faced long delays and costs skyrocketed. The new Government’s reversal of the de facto ban on new onshore wind is welcome. We are also glad restrictions on new solar have been reversed.

The Liberal Democrats share the ambitions of the Government’s climate agenda, but we will also ensure that these projects have local buy-in. Local authorities must play a leading role in delivering climate action, and the communities that host the new infrastructure must directly benefit from it. For example, there is huge growth potential in community energy. The Liberal Democrats are calling for small-scale renewable energy generators to receive a guaranteed fair price for the electricity they sell back to the grid. Community benefit and individual economic incentives are crucial to securing support and active participation in our energy transition.

In both the Labour and the Liberal Democrat manifestos there was a clear commitment to tightening energy efficiency standards for private landlords. National Energy Action has warned that the statutory fuel poverty target cannot be met without doing so. The King’s Speech provided an opportunity for the new Government to set that as a priority in their new renters’ rights Bill, but it was missed out. I hope the Government will hear this and ensure that improvements to energy efficiency for renters materialise before the situation worsens.

Under the previous Conservative Government, the cost of living crisis was exacerbated by rises in travel costs, particularly for commuters. It is not clear how Labour’s plans for nationalisation will do anything to alleviate the high cost of travelling by rail. We urge the new Government to freeze rail fares and simplify ticketing to ensure that regular users are paying a fair and affordable price. For too long, decisions over local transport have been centralised. Liberal Democrats have long argued for lifting the ban on local authorities franchising buses. It is reassuring to see that the Government recognise the importance of local decision making. However, councils will need adequate resourcing to expand services. We are yet to see a strategy for that. We would also like to see a long-term plan from the Government for further electrification of the rail network. Not providing one would be a dereliction of duty to reduce emissions and improve air quality.

I look forward to working together constructively with the new Government to turbocharge our energy to get to net zero, and to make sure we really improve our green public transport and grow the huge opportunities of a green economy.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Siobhain McDonagh)]

I call Andrew Lewin to make his maiden speech.

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[Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I say what a pleasure it is to follow the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Andrew Lewin)? He spoke with great eloquence, and also with passion about his constituency. I know what a wonderful moment it is when we give a maiden speech. We all have that honour when we enter the House. I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place, and look forward to working with him in the years to come. Of course, Hertfordshire is next to the county where my own constituency is located—Essex and Hertfordshire are twin counties, so we are neighbours in some senses—and I also look forward greatly to hearing more from him in the months and years ahead.

I think that one of our colleagues who spoke earlier forgot to welcome the hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Sarah Sackman). I know that constituency well. I campaigned for Mrs Thatcher in 1983 as a young Conservative, at the age of 17; I know Ballards Lane very well, and I have often been to Margaret Thatcher House. I must commend the hon. Lady on her kindness and the generous words that she spoke about not only Margaret Thatcher but my friend Mike Freer, whom we were sad to lose in the election. I know that she will be a fine champion of Finchley and Golders Green, which is a proud constituency with a great identity, and I look forward to visiting Finchley again while the hon. Lady is in place as the Member of Parliament.

[Wera Hobhouse]

I do apologise to the hon. Member for Finchley and Golders Green, and to the whole House, for not recognising my duty to thank the hon. Lady for her wonderful speech. This means that even after seven years in the House one sometimes forgets to do certain things. It is very good to see the hon. Lady in the House, and I particularly enjoyed what she said about the rule of law.

[Andrew Rosindell]

I am deeply proud to have been elected for the seventh time as the Member of Parliament for Romford. I am now the longest-serving MP for Romford since 1885, when the constituency was created. I am here because I believe in things. I am here not because I seek titles and positions, but because I believe in this country, and I am also passionate about my constituency, because it is where I am from. I think that those of us who come from our constituencies know how important it is to represent a place where we have lived all our lives, and I will always be proud of being the MP for my home town.

As I have said, I believe in things, and I believe first in this country. Let me say to Ministers, whom I congratulate on their election to power, that things change and Governments come and go, but the one thing that we must never give away is the freedom and liberties of the British people. I say to them, “Whatever you do, please do not reverse the biggest democratic decision that the British people made.” We want to have sovereignty; we want to have the right of self-governance; but we also want prosperity, and that means free enterprise, low taxes and smaller government. It does not mean creating a larger centralisation of power. Margaret Thatcher taught us that if we have lower taxes and free enterprise, if we give people the freedom to prosper and make their own decisions in life, in the end we create more prosperity and more opportunities for all. That, I am sure, is what all of us, in all parts of the House, want to see, so let us learn from past mistakes.

I respect the fact that we have different opinions on many issues, and I also understand that all of us here want the best for our country and our constituencies. However, I believe that if we want economic prosperity, we need Governments to stay out of people’s lives. We need to allow business to flourish. We need less regulation, and we need to cut unnecessary public expenditure, so that people are not paying high taxes which disincentivise work and put people off from investing in our country. I hope that the Government, having taken office, will pay heed to that. I also say to them that, yes, we want to protect our environment, but we have to think very carefully about the evangelism of net zero. We do not want to make our country cold and poor, and to give competitive advantage to other countries that do very little about climate change and have not met their targets. I am afraid the policy that the Government have adopted will deliver more power to China, so I warn them about going too far in that direction.

I believe that we should be a Parliament that makes decisions, so I disagree with more and more quangos, committees of experts and bodies that are not democratically accountable having so much say. Why are we effectively giving the Office for Budget Responsibility a veto over the rights of this Parliament to decide economic policy? Surely that is something that the Government should think again about.

Before I have to end, I would like to say that if we are serious about devolution, we should give all parts of the country greater control over their local communities. Boroughs such as Havering would rather be independent. We do not want to be under Greater London; we want power devolved back to our local communities. Historically, we are part of Essex, and we do not like being controlled by City Hall—and certainly not by the current Mayor of London. I represent the people of Romford, and they would agree with what I have said. Let us have free enterprise, true devolution and, above all, prosperity for the British people, but let us also stand up for our country abroad and at home.

Oral Answers to Questions

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Tuesday 7th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gareth Davies]

I know that my hon. Friend is a great champion of all businesses in Morley and across Leeds because I have seen it at first hand. I point out to her as well that the Government have reduced taxation on small businesses, we have increased the VAT threshold, and we have a 75% rate relief for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses, which she alluded to. It is this Conservative Government who are on the side of hard-working people and businesses across Morley and around the country.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

In the last decade, more than one music venue closed every week, including Moles in Bath. That has resulted in the loss of 4,000 jobs, 14,250 events, over 190,000 performance opportunities, £9 million of income for musicians and £59 million in lost direct economic activity. What are the Government doing to support small music venues?

[Gareth Davies]

We are doing a lot. We are increasing the VAT threshold, and we have a rates relief package. The recent spring Budget was one of the biggest packages supporting our cultural industries that this country has ever seen, and I encourage the hon. Lady to look at it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gareth Davies]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The pharmaceutical industry is worth some £14 billion to our economy. I am pleased to tell him that the industry has seen a twelvefold increase in equity financing in just the past decade, and I would be pleased to meet him to discuss that further.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

Soaring rent costs are the biggest reason why my constituents in Bath are struggling. The average monthly rent in Bath and north-east Somerset has risen by more than £200 in the past three years. What support will the Government give to people who rent in the private sector?

[Jeremy Hunt]

That is why we need to build more houses. The hon. Lady will be reassured to know that we are building record numbers of houses—in fact, more in the last year than in any single year under the previous Labour Government.

UK Economy

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Bim Afolami]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question—I would say that the loss of large retail groups in Norfolk is the House’s gain. His point about the international context is serious and important. Although Labour Members do not like to hear it, facing a once-in-100-years pandemic and Putin’s illegal war in Ukraine, which caused energy prices to skyrocket, will have adverse impacts on the economy. The country understands that and the House understands that; the Labour Front Bench should also understand it.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

This recession is a direct result of the choices that this Government have made. Years of potential growth have been missed, and the Government have failed particularly to capitalise on the green transition. Green investment will be worth £1 trillion globally by 2030, including half a million jobs in this country. When will the Government bring forward a green investment programme to match the ones in the US or in Europe?

[Bim Afolami]

First, our record on decarbonisation beats anywhere else in the G7, so we do not take lessons from the United States or any other country in that regard. In relation to the green investment plan by 2030, the hon. Lady should direct her ire at those on the Labour Front Bench for not being clear as to what their plan is. The Leader of the Opposition says—[Interruption.] Well, it is important because politics is a contest of ideas, as indeed it is a contest between two parties. If Labour Members believe they can spend an extra £28 billion without that having an impact on taxes and borrowing, they are trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the British people.

Hospitality Sector: Fiscal Support

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Wednesday 31st January 2024 Westminster Hall

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Ms Bardell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Stirling (Alyn Smith) on securing the debate, and I welcome the Minister to his place. I remember his visit to Bath; in Bath, we consider him a friend.

My Bath constituency has a thriving hospitality sector that caters to local people and to visitors from all over the world. However, our businesses have had to deal with Brexit, covid and now high and rising costs. Bath’s visitor numbers are recovering from the pandemic, yet many of our cultural attractions and hospitality venues are still struggling, with fewer visitors and increasing costs.

The difficulties that the sector faces are widespread. A survey by the Night Time Industries Association revealed a staggering 40% increase in total operating costs last year because of rent increases, energy costs, inflation and business rates. Businesses are trying to manage increasing costs while keeping prices affordable for customers, and it is smaller, independent hospitality venues that bear the brunt. Our high street is kept vibrant by the variety of pubs, restaurants and other businesses to choose from, but without financial assistance from the Government, only large chain companies are insulated from the cost rises.

The hospitality industry employs 3.5 million people nationally and contributes more than £50 billion in tax receipts to the Treasury. By employment, it is the UK’s fourth largest sector. Many owners fear that they may have to close permanently in the coming year; many others have already shut their doors. In Bath we are still reeling from the closure of Moles, a small music venue that was loved and known across the UK for nurturing young and up and coming musical talent. Last year, 3,000 hospitality businesses closed. Among UK businesses that filed for administration in 2023, the third-highest sector was the hospitality industry, which accounted for more than 10%. The figures have nearly doubled in two years and owners are afraid that they could continue to rise, so it is important that the Government take note. Every single closure means the loss of people’s livelihoods and of valuable community institutions.

Many businesses in my constituency have expressed disappointment that the Government decided to remove energy bill support. One pub’s energy bill went up by £35,000. If the energy bill support scheme that was in place until April last year had continued, that bill would have been reduced to £5,000. The Chancellor’s decision to replace the scheme has meant that the pub now receives only £3,000. Under Liberal Democrat proposals, small and medium-sized businesses would have been offered Government grants covering 80% of the increase in their energy bills for one year, giving small hospitality businesses the stability that they need to get through these difficult times.

It is impossible to talk about energy without discussing the role of the green transition. The Government must accelerate the review of electricity market arrangements so that households and businesses alike can benefit from lower-cost renewables. That should involve decoupling electricity from wholesale gas prices. Renewables are now the cheapest source of energy, but their price is artificially linked to expensive natural gas. The Federation of Small Businesses has suggested a help-to-green scheme, which would provide direct financial support and advice to companies. That would include a grant to allow small businesses to invest in energy efficiency or microgeneration. The independent review of net zero also championed that idea. Have the Government looked at that?

The Government must provide the temporary help that small businesses need now, as well as long-term solutions to stabilise rising costs. We must act now to protect all the well-loved businesses in our constituencies from difficult times in future.

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[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Ms Bardell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Stirling (Alyn Smith) on securing the debate, and thank everybody who has contributed. Everyone contributed in a very constructive manner—until a few minutes ago. Many hon. Members graciously commented on my previous role. As tourism Minister, I had the real pleasure of visiting the vast majority of their constituencies, and it has been fantastic to have a tour of the UK today. We have heard about the fantastic hospitality, tourism and leisure offerings in everybody’s constituencies, including some absolute gems that make us very proud of this industry.

The hospitality and leisure sector is formidable. Definitions can sometimes be difficult; sometimes when people use the term “hospitality”, they are just talking about pubs, bars and restaurant, but we are thinking more broadly about the tourism, hospitality and leisure offering. To respond to the hon. Member for Ealing North (James Murray), I can say that we engage with the sector all the time. Just yesterday, many of us attended the UKHospitality reception, at which the formidable Kate Nicolls articulated the sector’s asks very well. We hear them all the time, and we are always listening to ideas.

[Wera Hobhouse]

The Minister mentioned a range of hospitality businesses. Will the Government please look at ensuring the survival of struggling businesses such as small music venues, which will close if they do not get the support they need?

[Nigel Huddleston]

In this debate we have heard an ongoing request for simplification in recognition of these challenging times—we did, of course, spend £350 billion on the pandemic—and a series of requests for additional relief here, there and everywhere. Everybody recognises—the Welsh and Scottish Governments are also struggling with this—that financial times are tight and that every single one of those requests comes at a cost: either other people would pay more tax or spending would be reduced somewhere else.

We absolutely hear the requests, but as my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double) pointed out, over the past few years—certainly during the pandemic—the Government have recognised how vital the sector is and have been absolutely committed to it. It rightly received the immense support that it needed during the pandemic, including through the culture recovery fund to help music and heritage. So many sectors contribute to our tourism and hospitality offering. If we had not made those interventions during the pandemic, many businesses that are here today would otherwise not be. Ongoing asks during the period of recovery, when we need to start paying back that £350 billion, are very difficult because there would be massive consequences for taxpayers and the whole of the economy. I understand the challenges, but I think everybody recognises that every one of those asks comes at a cost.

Loan Charge

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sammy Wilson]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I hope that the point I was making about Tony Lloyd was picked up. I want to pass on the condolences of our party to his family, and I pay tribute to the work he did as shadow Minister for Northern Ireland.

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting the debate. It is a timely debate and I know that the many thousands of people across the United Kingdom who have been affected by the loan charge in a very detrimental way will be glad that it is being considered in this House. Over the past two weeks, we have been looking at the dramatic fallout of the Horizon scandal at the Post Office and, quite rightly, we have been focusing on what belatedly can be done to repay and to deal with that great injustice. I say to the House—I do not think that I am being overdramatic when I say this—that we are looking at another Horizon scandal, and the parallels are frightening.

First, because of the actions of a Government Department, 10 people in the United Kingdom have committed suicide and many others have attempted to take their own lives because of the pressure they were put under by officials and by statute passed by this Parliament. We have heard time and again in evidence to the loan charge and taxpayer fairness all-party parliamentary group of the disruption and disaster this has caused in many families.

Secondly, despite the fact that alarm bells should be ringing in the Treasury, no action has been taken. Indeed, some Ministers have even refused to meet the group. Others have simply put out the party line and regurgitated the excuses of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs for what is happening.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it seems to be the case yet again that people acting in good faith are being prosecuted and pursued, whereas the people who absolutely knew what they were doing are getting away scot-free?

[Sammy Wilson]

That is a point I want to come to.

We are seeing that once again Ministers are turning a blind eye, and these lessons should be learned. Apart from two examples of Ministers that I can think of, one of whom—a former Minister—is present, Ministers turned a blind eye for years. We then had the result, but it was not until an ITV programme brought this matter to the nation as a whole that action was taken.

We have had attempts by HMRC to justify what it has been doing. In the past, postmasters and postmistresses who had unblemished records for years were accused of being thieves. We are now being told that the people who HMRC is chasing today are—to use its words—“serial tax evaders”. Minister, I have to say that when I read the letter that you—

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

My hon. Friend makes an incredibly powerful point with which I entirely agree. Part of the ask of this debate and of the all-party parliamentary group on the loan charge and taxpayer fairness is a fair settlement that people can actually afford to pay; that takes into account—dare I say it—reality; and that understands what people actually earn and that they acted in good faith and took the professional advice that I mentioned a few moments ago.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Greg Smith]

One more time.

[Wera Hobhouse]

The hon. Gentleman is being generous. Is it not the case that what we need is proper transparency in how Government bodies operate? When so many people see these problems again and again, that really undermines trust in Government.

[Greg Smith]

I agree with the hon. Lady. Of course we need transparency across all walks of life—Government or otherwise. The right hon. Member for East Antrim referred to the Horizon scandal and the Post Office. There is a clear similarity, and there needs to be an inquiry and serious action. How can a body of the state—the Post Office in the case of the Horizon scandal, and HMRC in the case of the loan charge scandal—be autonomous in being judge, jury and executioner at the same time? We simply have to take that away. Checks and balances must be built into HMRC if we are to see justice for the loan charge victims, as well as for victims of any other scandal that might well come about.

I could say much more on this subject, but I am mindful of the time limit that you have set, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am incredibly grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister for his letter yesterday offering a meeting with the all-party parliamentary group. I hope that we can get that meeting in the diary as soon as humanly possible so that we can have meaningful dialogue on how to get to a settlement, a review of HMRC practices and justice for the loan charge victims. Given the colleagues whom I have seen bobbing, particularly from the Conservative Benches, I suspect that we will hear many more powerful stories and testimonies from victims of the loan charge, whose lives we should see as totally valuable and deserving of our attention and of justice.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

What I am going to say will echo what has already been said this afternoon, but I want to add my voice to those of all Members, and particularly to those of my constituents, because Bath constituents have been affected, and I want to help them as much as I can.

The loan charge has destroyed lives. Of course businesses and individuals should pay their fair share in tax; however, much damage has been done to people who acted in good faith. They have been punished in an entirely inappropriate way, while those who were behind the schemes have got away scot-free. We must defend individual taxpayers, even if we think that they might have been ill advised in the first place. As we have heard, many were forced into the schemes and did not have a choice.

The Morse review concluded that the loan charge was not an appropriate or fair response to the use of payroll loan arrangements. It focuses on loans made many years ago. They were not taxable under the law as it was understood at the time, and HMRC did not act against them. As enacted, the loan charge means that income tax must be paid as if the outstanding amount were part of the income taxed in the current tax year. That does not account for changed financial circumstances, which is particularly relevant for freelancers. Those taxpayers pay much more than they would have if they had paid tax on the loan at the time.

The loan charge’s stated aim is to end tax avoidance schemes, which is understandable. We all want to ensure that people pay their share; however, the central injustice is that HMRC has pursued only the users of the schemes, who acted in good faith, instead of those who recommended, promoted and operated them. As a result, the loan charge is not even a deterrent. There has never been a conviction of those promoting loan schemes that are now subject to the charge. The people who were compliant and disclosed information on their tax returns have been hit the hardest. Nearly all respondents to a survey by the loan charge and taxpayer fairness APPG reported that the risks of payroll loan arrangements were not explained to them. Now some face tax bills as high as £400,000.

Families have broken down, and there have been suicides. People were made to feel like criminals, despite having entered into the arrangements following professional advice. Many have said that as contractors they had little or no choice but to enter the schemes. Many small and medium-sized company owners and directors were also impacted after following professional tax advice. Their staff now face redundancy. As well as the awful mental health impacts, which the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned, tax bills of hundreds of thousands of pounds leave some with no option but to go bankrupt. In many cases, being declared bankrupt will prevent people from working again or paying tax.

None of that would have happened had HMRC identified the issue earlier, publicised the risks of payroll loan schemes and penalised those behind them. The nightmare now unfolding has echoes of the Post Office scandal, where individuals with no intent of wrongdoing were left with impossible choices. Livelihoods and lives are being destroyed while those running the schemes, who knew what they were up to, are getting away with it. In addition, Government bodies are magnifying the injustice, pursuing people with intimidation and making them fearful. We should put that right, rather than making this wrong even more wrong.

We urgently need a genuinely independent review of the whole loan charge, and a fair and final resolution for all. It is clear there is huge cross-party interest. It is in everyone’s interest to finally resolve this, not just for those facing overwhelming tax bills but for HMRC and the Government. The loan charge has not even achieved its intention. Instead, it represents a policy failure that has left thousands suffering. It is for all of us to act, and act quickly.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the spokesperson for the Scottish National party.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

I would also like to thank the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Greg Smith) and others for securing the debate, and I am grateful for all the contributions from hon. Members across the House. I would like to name them all, because it is important that we get on the record all those who have contributed. They include my right hon. Friends the Members for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith), for New Forest West (Sir Desmond Swayne), for North East Somerset (Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg) and for Haltemprice and Howden (Sir David Davis); my hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk (Duncan Baker); the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell); and the hon. Members for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones), for Chesham and Amersham (Sarah Green), for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Neale Hanvey), for Arfon (Hywel Williams), for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for Bath (Wera Hobhouse); and, indeed, others who have contributed to the debate.

There is no doubt that we have heard today the strength of feeling on the issue. Of course, I stand at the Despatch Box as not only the Minister—Financial Secretary to the Treasury—but a constituency MP who has also had representations on these issues from my constituents.

The loan charge, alongside the wider issue of the use of disguised remuneration schemes, is a complex subject that is deeply impactful for many of our constituents. I can assure hon. Members that the Government take the issue incredibly seriously and recognise the impact the loan charge has had. I will endeavour to address the points that have been raised in the debate, but I also wish to reassure colleagues that many of the questions they have asked, about disguised remuneration, Government policy, the loan charge and the approach and tone taken by HMRC, are precisely the questions that I have been asking officials, for the very reasons they have outlined.

I hope that during the course of my response I can provide some additional reassurance because, particularly in the light of recent circumstances, I want to make sure that I am making the right decisions and asking the right questions. Tax authorities and tax Ministers are never popular—it is the nature of the work—but I want to make sure that we act in a way that is reassuring, correct and fair to all taxpayers. I take that duty and responsibility very seriously. For example, I have had discussions and conversations with Jim Harra, the chief executive of HMRC, in the light of the Post Office scandal, about whether there are commissions or perverse incentives for people that may lead to distorting behaviour, and I have been reassured that there are not. This debate and these conversations are very useful, because they enable me to ask the right questions of my officials.

I will not be able to give everybody the answers they want, and I am going to disappoint some people with this response, because I believe we have taken the right approach. There are certain areas where I will continue to ask questions. I am aware that I will not be able to satisfy everybody today, but that will never stop me from continuing to ask the right questions.

Briefly, by way of context, because not everybody who is listening to this may be aware, the purpose of the loan charge was to ensure that users of disguised remuneration schemes paid their fair share of income tax and national insurance contributions. Disguised remuneration schemes are contrived tax avoidance arrangements that seek to avoid income tax and national insurance on income by disguising it as some other type of payment, typically in the form of a loan that is wrongly alleged to be non-taxable. Hon. Members should be in no doubt that, as has been recognised across the House, those schemes cost the Exchequer and other taxpayers hundreds of millions of pounds a year. Indeed, the total burden is to the tune of billions of pounds.

It is therefore right that, when we identify these completely inappropriate schemes, we take action. From the earliest days of the schemes, HMRC opened thousands of inquiries into their use and challenged their operation through the courts. In 2017, the Supreme Court agreed that the schemes did not work and have never worked to legitimately avoid tax, so tax is due on these payments. However, as I have heard very clearly in this debate, many questions have been raised about how we recover that tax due and who has paid it.

In 2022, the Court of Appeal ruled that, even where other parties may have obligations to withhold tax under PAYE, the liability for income tax is always that of the individual, fully endorsing a long-standing position of HMRC and of Governments of all colours. That is a key point: the individual is ultimately primarily responsible for the tax they owe and for their own tax affairs.

[Wera Hobhouse]

Does the Minister not recognise that quite a lot of people who used the schemes, who were made contractors against their will, are often just individuals who are not tax experts, who paid the tax they were asked to pay at the time and did not think anything was wrong until years later, when suddenly HMRC came to pursue them? Does he not recognise that he is doing the wrong thing to those people who really did not know better?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comment and I understand completely where she is coming from, but there are multiple points to discuss there. The schemes were never legitimate; they were always tax avoidance, and therefore there was always a clear path that tax was owed. With respect to who then pays, I will mention that in a moment, but, if we move away from the underlying principle that individuals still have personal responsibility to check their tax affairs, it is very difficult to move back to it. I will also come on to the point she raises about further Government action in a moment, because there are some people are being deceived and forced into errors that are completely inappropriate.

The early stages of such loan schemes involved the very wealthy and people who, I think we can all agree, knew exactly what they were doing, but as the schemes evolved and got more sophisticated, and more people were drawn into them, there was a long tail of people who were acting in good faith, and theirs are many of the cases that we have heard today. Although we keep the principle that ultimate responsibility lies with those individuals, it is important that we do the right thing in ensuring that tax affairs are straightened.

Oral Answers to Questions

Wera Hobhouse Excerpts

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East) (Lab)]

2. What assessment he has made with Cabinet colleagues of the potential impact of climate change on the economy.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

16. What assessment he has made of the potential impact of climate change on the economy.

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

The Treasury’s 2021 net zero review noted that unmitigated climate change damage has been estimated to be the equivalent of losing between 5% and 20% of global GDP each year. The costs of global inaction significantly outweigh the costs of action, and McKinsey estimates that there is a global market opportunity for British businesses worth £1 trillion.

[Gareth Davies]

It is important to point out that we are the fastest decarbonising economy in the G7. Since 1990, we have decarbonised by 48% while growing our economy by 65%, but the hon. Lady is right: this will take a balanced approach involving both public spending and private investment, including pension fund investment. The recent pension fund reforms, for example, should unlock some new assets for green infrastructure.

[Wera Hobhouse]

I agree with the question about the Carbon Tracker report. It has found that policy decisions are being based on 1990s literature. That is 30 years old. Will the Chancellor review the data and the thinking that the Government are using to make sure that all strands are in line with the climate science of the 21st century?

[Gareth Davies]

The data that I look at shows that last year 40% of our electricity was generated from renewables. That is an amazing achievement, but we are alive and present when it comes to decarbonising our economy. We have great plans and we are building on our great track record. We will continue to do that.