Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(3 years, 11 months ago)
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Simon Hart
Not only my hon. Friend’s sheep farmers but sheep farmers in constituencies across the House can feel confident that the Government are on their side. One way we can demonstrate that is the fact that we have guaranteed the £337 million of funding across the lifetime of this Parliament. People said we would not do it, but we have done it, and we are committed to ensuring that there is a healthy future for the farming industry, particularly livestock in Wales.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
Diolch yn fawr, Lefarydd. It was interesting to hear the reference made to Welsh fishing previously, but I am sure the Secretary of State is aware that 90% of the Welsh fleet is made up of small boats, under 10 metres in length, which catch shellfish and non-quota fish species such as bass. Between the prospect of no-deal tariffs to their markets in Europe and the covid closure of hospitality, fishermen such as those in Porthdinllaen near where I live see no Brexit bonanza on the horizon. As Nelson might have put it, “Wales expects that every Secretary of State for Wales will do his duty.” Can the Secretary of State explain how his Government’s vainglorious Trafalgar posturing with warships in the channel helps our small fishing vessels?
Michael Fabricant [V]
May I join the Prime Minister in those good wishes for Christmas and add my own good wishes to you, Mr Speaker, and to the Prime Minister and hope that you both have a peaceful and safe Christmas period?
Look, on the subject of Christmas, my constituents in Lichfield and Burntwood and those in the rest of the country have had a torrid year with the covid pandemic, and we have this very small break over Christmas. People must use common sense, of course: do not start hugging granny; do not go wild over Christmas; and, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister previously said, let us be jolly careful over Christmas. I want to say to my Prime Minister that it would not be helpful if some smarmy lawyer, or somebody now at this late stage, were to argue for a change in the laws. May I ask my right hon. Friend, here and now, who is neither smarmy nor a lawyer—
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. He is right in many ways, but right to stress the importance of people taking care this Christmas, because although some things are unquestionably going well—I am very pleased to tell the House that we have had a good start with the roll-out of the vaccination programme and in just seven days 108,000 people in England and 138,000 across the whole of the UK have received their first vaccination—we must remember that transmission takes place asymptomatically in so many cases: one in three people are currently asymptomatic with covid. That is why my hon. Friend is absolutely right that we should exercise extreme caution in the way we celebrate Christmas. We can celebrate it sensibly but we have to be extremely cautious in the way we behave.
Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con)
The Prime Minister
Mr Speaker, the whole of the country and the taxpayers of this country play that role; it is our job to make sure that we spend the money sensibly, and that is what we were doing. I am delighted that, thanks in part to the campaigning by my hon. Friend, his constituency is attracting an average of 3.8% more per pupil next year compared with this year through the national funding formula—a total of £4.8 million more, in addition, of course, to our commitment to pay every teacher a starting salary of £30,000.
Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP) [V]
Mr Speaker
Order. I am not responsible; the hon. Member keeps saying “you”, and honestly, I do not want to be responsible for any of this.
Ronnie Cowan
My apologies, Mr Speaker. I am obviously addressing my question to the Prime Minister. There are obstacles that exist across the United Kingdom to the creation of drug consumption rooms, and those obstacles can be removed at Westminster. Previously the UK Government have held an ideological view that drug consumption rooms encourage drug taking. Will the Prime Minister engage with me and allow me the opportunity to help him do a good thing?
Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) (Con)
The Prime Minister
Thank you, Mr Speaker—I share your enthusiasm for what Kevin Sinfield—
The Prime Minister
For what Sir Kevin—thank you, Mr Speaker—and Leeds Rhinos have done. MND is indeed a devastating condition. I congratulate Sir Kevin on his actions, and the Government are certainly in full support.
The Prime Minister
The hon. Lady is of course right to draw attention to the hardship of parents who have had to cope with kids coming home from school because of self-isolation rules. One of the things that we are trying to do now is roll out lateral flow testing on a grand scale for schools, so that we reduce the size of the bubbles that have to self-isolate. We are doing whatever we can to support families throughout the crisis, as she knows, with big uprates in universal credit and all manner of support that we are providing, in addition to free childcare for 30 hours a week.
The best answer for this crisis is to keep our kids in school, to test them and to roll out that programme of mass community testing, which I am sure the hon. Lady supports in her neighbourhood, in order to drive the virus down, allow the vaccine time really to kick in, and protect our elderly and vulnerable so that we can all move forward together as a society. That is what this Government are aiming for, but in the meantime I fully appreciate the problem that she has raised, and we will do our very best to address it.
Mr Speaker
Order. In order to allow the safe exit of hon. Members participating in this item of business, and the safe arrival of those participating in the next, I will now suspend the sitting for three minutes.
Speaker’s Statement
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(4 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Speaker
It has come to my attention that, owing to an oversight in the Public Bill Office, the Government were not invited to signify Queen’s consent last night on Third Reading of the Fisheries Bill. I am satisfied that Queen’s consent is required and that it has been obtained, as it was signified for the Bill in the House of Lords on Wednesday 15 July this year. If a Privy Councillor will now signify formally that the Queen’s consent was obtained for this Bill, I will direct that the appropriate entry be made in the Journal for yesterday’s proceedings.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(4 years, 2 months ago)
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Liz Saville Roberts
There was a Senedd in Machynlleth. The year 2020 saw the renaming of the Assembly as Senedd or Welsh Parliament. [Interruption.] Maybe the significance is lost on a certain Welsh MP; maybe the significance is lost in translation. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. We are not having a debate across the Benches. Please have the discussion outside afterwards, and let me know the result of that discussion.
Liz Saville Roberts
Maybe even the debate is lost entirely here or lost in translation, but how can the Secretary of State reconcile this historical serendipity with this Government’s brazen power-grab?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (David T. C. Davies)
High street banks have been at the forefront of lending to firms impacted by covid-19. They have provided support to Welsh firms through more than £1.1 billion-worth of loans under the Government’s bounce back loan scheme and £300 million of loans under the Government’s coronavirus business interruption loan scheme. There has also been an additional £100 million of lending through the Development Bank of Wales, which has been a useful contribution.
Geraint Davies [V]
Thank you very much from over here in Wales.
The Development Bank of Wales has been found by the Welsh Affairs Committee to be much more effective in the delivery of coronavirus loans to business than high streets banks, which have been found to be unresponsive, delayed and risk-averse, and not to understand local businesses. Will the Secretary of State and the Minister impress on the Chancellor the need to provide more funding for the Development Bank of Wales and to import this excellent idea into England to help all British business?
James Daly (Bury North) (Con)
The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson)
Today marks 400 years since the sailing of the Mayflower, a reminder to us of the beginning of an enduring alliance between our two nations. Around 35 million Americans today trace their ancestry to a Mayflower passenger, and I am sure that the whole House will want to join me in marking this historic anniversary.
This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.
The Prime Minister
I strongly echo my hon. Friend’s congratulations and thanks to teachers, and just say that I believe passionately in the tutoring programme we are launching. We expect the first group of tutors to be supporting schools from November, with provision ramping up through the remainder of the autumn and spring term.
Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)
Many people in the Chamber will think that the battle of Britain is today, but actually we marked the 80th anniversary of those veterans yesterday, and I want to put on record our thanks to all those who fought for our country in the past.
I want to start by reading to the Prime Minister a message that I have received from a man called Keir. Keir was not able to go to work today and his children could not go to school because his family had to wait for their coronavirus test results, despite the Prime Minister’s promise of results within 24 hours. Keir was able to do the right thing and self-isolate and work from home, but other people are not in this position, and many of them are the very people who were getting us through this crisis, such as the care workers, who I used to work alongside before I was elected to this House. The Prime Minister once earned £2,300 an hour; can he tell us the average hourly rate of a care worker in this country?
The Prime Minister
I will have to study the judgment in detail. I will be happy to write to the hon. Member.
Mr Speaker
In order to allow the safe exit of hon. Members participating in this item of business and the safe arrival of those participating in the next, I suspend the House for a few minutes.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(4 years, 4 months ago)
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Simon Hart
We really should take some time to reflect on that. As far as I can remember, that is the first time ever that a major representative body, the Welsh Association of Visitor Attractions, has not only passed a vote of no confidence in the First Minister, but also said that his Government are “destroying the survival chances” of an industry in Wales. That, surely, must be the most shameful description of a devolved Government that we have heard in this Chamber.
My hon. Friend is right that 160,000 jobs are dependent on the industry—9.5% of the workforce of Wales. It deserves far better treatment than it has so far had at the hands of the Welsh Government, and I welcome his ability to raise it in the House—
Mr Speaker
Order. I appeal to the Secretary of State: we have a lot of questions to get through; let us have shorter questions and answers.
Scott Benton
My right hon. Friend will appreciate the interdependency between the economies of north Wales and north-west England. We often see holidaymakers travelling between both regions, and in Blackpool, we are always pleased to welcome visitors from north Wales. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to improve transport links between the two regions, which will boost not only tourism, but the economy more generally in a post-covid-19 world?
David T. C. Davies
I hope the hon. Lady and everyone in this House will join me in congratulating the United Kingdom Government on bringing forward a furlough scheme that has protected 300,000 jobs in Wales and a self-employment scheme that has protected 100,000 jobs. In addition, we have had bounce back loans, the coronavirus business interruption loan scheme and the coronavirus large business interruption loan scheme. Last week, we protected another 800 jobs—
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
I welcome some of the wartime-socialism policies of this Government, based on Gordon Brown’s rescue packages under the last Labour Government, which were then cruelly undermined by the Tory Government who followed. But there is room for more fiscal measures, including perhaps looking at VAT on events as a way of trying to stimulate that industry. When the Chancellor sits down next to him, will the Minister whisper in his ear and tell him to do that?
Beth Winter [V]
The unprecedented flooding this year disproportionately affected Welsh communities, including my constituency of Cynon Valley. The Government have now acknowledged the flooding problems caused and indicated that UK Government support for Welsh communities will come from UK reserve. However, in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones), the Government informed the House on 15 June that the support would be subject to the Barnett formula. Will the Secretary of State confirm that UK Government funding for flooding in Wales will come from the UK reserve in line with the ethos of support and solidarity central to our Union and that it will not be subject to the Barnett formula? Will he also clarify the amount that will be—
Simon Hart
Mr Speaker, thank you. In the interests of brevity, may I inform the hon. Lady that discussions are ongoing on this subject and she will be hearing more from the relevant bodies in the near future?
The Prime Minister
First, it is this Conservative Government who set out laws against modern slavery. It is this Conservative Government who massively increased the living wage—not only instituted the living wage, but massively increased it. We hoped that it would be the Labour mayor of Leicester who would stand up for the interests of the workforce in his community. That is what we will do.
Mr Speaker
We are heading to the shadows of Lichfield cathedral with Michael Fabricant.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con) [V]
It is not just the 800-year-old Lichfield cathedral that we have; we also have the beautiful leafy lanes, wonderful restaurants and bars. But I will tell you what we also have: the Lichfield Garrick, which is a major theatre in the area, and The Hub at St Mary’s. This is what I would like to know: I welcome the £1.7 billion grant that is being given to support our theatres and performing artists, but are we going to see any of it at all outside the west end, and here in Lichfield?
The Prime Minister
I have seldom met anybody who was more boosterish for the future of Wales than the Secretary of State for Wales, and that is because this Government are absolutely committed to levelling up throughout the whole UK—in Wales and everywhere—with infrastructure and investment in education and in technology. We will do the things, by the way, that the Welsh Labour Government have failed to do, such as unblocking the Brynglas tunnels and allowing that proper M4 bypass, which has long been needed. We will provide the Vicks inhaler to the nostrils of the Welsh dragon and get Wales moving.
Mr Speaker
Are you trying to put the fire out of the dragon, Prime Minister?
In order to allow the safe exit of hon. Members participating in this item of business and the safe arrival of those participating in the next, I suspend the House for three minutes.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(4 years, 5 months ago)
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Simon Hart
If there had been a little bit of earlier consultation, we might have been able to advise the Welsh Government on how that problem could have been overcome. We have made some suggestions to them about how that gift to care workers is properly made, without the need for primary legislation, which is where we are at the current time. I also urge the hon. Lady, if she is concerned about the matter, to make sure that everybody in the care sector receives a similar act of generosity from the Welsh Government.
Mr Speaker
We have now come to an end. I am going to suspend for a minute to allow those who do not need to be in the Chamber to make way for those who need to come in.
Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)
I hope that the Prime Minister will join me in standing together not only in grief at the killing of George Floyd but in determination that we will work together against racism, both in the US and here in the UK. In Putney, black teachers have told me that they are scared of going back to school because of the higher rates of death, and today’s figures from the Metropolitan police show that more than a quarter of lockdown fines have been for black people, although they are an eighth of our London population. Will the Prime Minister condemn the actions of the American police, will he freeze sales of tear gas and rubber bullets, will he review the lockdown fines, and will he act on the report on covid deaths, so that there are not more black people dying than white?
Mr Speaker
Sorry, we are not going to get other people in. We have got to be fair to each other.
The Prime Minister
The hon. Lady raises a very important series of points. I certainly condemn the killing of George Floyd, and we will certainly make sure that everything that we export to any country around the world is in accordance with the consolidated guidance on human rights.
The Prime Minister
That depends, I am afraid, on the outcome of our negotiations, as my right hon. Friend knows well, but I am absolutely confident that our friends and partners will see sense and the great mutual benefit in continuing to collaborate in exactly the way that we do.
Mr Speaker
We now come to the end. In order to allow the safe exit of hon. Members participating in this item of business and the safe arrival of those participating in the next, I suspend the House for five minutes.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
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Simon Hart
I suppose this was inevitable in a way. My experience of businesses and residents in Wales is simple: they have an exciting future and are keen to get on with the new opportunities that face them. They do not request or want extra opportunities to reminisce about the past.
Mr Speaker
I call the Secretary of State to reply to Question 7. [Interruption.]. Minister or Secretary of State? [Hon. Members: “Get on with it!”] Someone answer the question. It is Question 7 from John Spellar.
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman asks what this Government have been doing in the past few days, so let me tell him. Not only have we been investing massively in flood defences and compensating those who have suffered from flooding, but we have been stopping the early release of terrorists; we have restored the nurses’ bursary; we are beginning work on 40 new hospitals; and we are recruiting 20,000 more police officers. We can do that because we have a strong and dynamic economy, with employment at record highs, unemployment down to the lowest levels since the early ’70s, wages going up and home ownership up. What are the Opposition doing? They are still deciding—[Interruption.] Listen to them jabbering away.
The Prime Minister
Quite right, Mr Speaker. They are jabbering away, because they still cannot decide whether or not they want to be in the European Union, and the hottest topic of debate in the Labour party is what job the right hon. Gentleman should have in the shadow Cabinet after the leadership election. They are engaging themselves in narcissistic debate about the Labour party. We are getting on in delivering on the people’s priorities.
Welsh Affairs
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(6 years, 8 months ago)
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Chris Elmore
I got carried away, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise, and I withdraw those words.
David T. C. Davies
I welcome the fact that everyone feels passionately about this issue, but I suggest that the hon. Gentleman look at what his own Labour Education Minister is saying about Labour’s education record in Wales.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
The hon. Gentleman prompted me to intervene at this point. I wish everyone a belated happy St Patrick’s day for Saturday. We know that when the Blarney stone is turned the right way, we will have the opportunity for good weather, and we had a great victory on Saturday as well. The Irish team do their talking on the pitch, unlike the England rugby coach, who does his talking—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. Mr Shannon, I am the most lenient at letting you in, but I think the world already knows about the Irish team and how successful they were. We do not need it to be echoed again.
Albert Owen
I am glad to hear the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) supporting the united Ireland in its grand slam victory.
I want to talk about our historic links with the Republic of Ireland. Dublin is the nearest capital city to my constituency, and we have had trade for many decades—hundreds of years—between the Republic of Ireland and Wales. Much of that will be put in jeopardy if we do not get the Brexit deal right. We need a special arrangement, and I am appealing to the Secretary of State because he has been to my constituency to see the port of Holyhead and the problems that could occur. It is no good his repeating what the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union says about a frictionless border, which is meaningless. We need proper policies and partnerships, because Irish firms are already doing direct trade and are proposing further direct trade between the Republic of Ireland and continental Europe, bypassing the ports of Wales, Scotland and Ireland, so we need a special relationship.
We have a common travel area with the Republic of Ireland, and the Prime Minister has told me on several occasions that it would continue, but the reality is that it was set up based on our historical links and formed part of our special relationship when we were both in the European Union—we joined at the very same time. Now that the UK has decided to leave the European Union, that puts strain on the relationship. Unless we have a customs union of sorts—an arrangement or agreement—it will be impossible not to have tariffs and barriers at Welsh ports. The reality is that jobs will be lost in those ports. Holyhead and Fishguard are also railway towns, and they rely on the trade that comes from Ireland, so if we lose that vital link due to high tariffs, people will go elsewhere and jobs will be lost. It is hugely important that the Secretary of State listens to what the people of Wales, the Welsh Government and what many Welsh Members are saying. It is no good repeating the mantra of frictionless trade; we need practical things. The Irish Government want to see practical arrangements, as do Members of this House.
Turning to the Welsh economy, I agree with the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) when he talked about the north Wales growth deal. I am as frustrated as he and my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (David Hanson) are, because we have been told for a long time that the process will be bottom-up. Now is the time to shape that growth deal and to deliver on those arrangements. I want north-west Wales and the rest of north Wales to benefit. We need to put pressure on the Treasury to come up with a figure that can match the deals that are coming up from the local level to deliver jobs and prosperity in north Wales.
Time is limited, but I want to talk briefly again about the low-carbon economy and how Wales and north Wales can benefit and lead in this area. There are two marine energy projects in my constituency, and I know that the Secretary of State for Wales and the other Secretaries of State are aware of them. They need a kick-start, and the Welsh Government and the European social fund are providing the essential investment. Minesto, a Swedish company, is investing in my constituency, and Morlais, a local social enterprise, is working to develop marine and tidal energy.
New nuclear is on its way, and I congratulate the Secretary of State and his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Clwyd West, on the continuity they have provided in that project, which started in 2007 to 2009, because we could be world leaders in the low-carbon economy.
Like many Members, I again want to raise the issue of the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, because it is not good enough for the Government to keep saying, “We want value for money.” Of course we want that, but we also want ambition from this Government. They talk about an industrial strategy for the whole UK, and they now have to put their money where their mouth is. If they want Wales to prosper, they will find that Wales has an on-the-shelf project that can be rolled out across the whole of Wales in tidal lagoon technology. It will benefit the steel industry in Wales, and the supply chain in Wales and across the UK. We can be that first of a kind. Yes, first of a kinds are expensive, but if we had not invested in other first-of-a-kind technologies, we would never have anything in this country. It is time this industrial strategy came to life.
I want to finish by saying a few things more. I wish this debate had been held on 1 March, and I want to carry on campaigning for a public holiday—a bank holiday—on St David’s day. This was in our manifesto. If the Prime Minister decides to go for another walk in north Wales, I am sure we will have that opportunity to deliver a public holiday. The people of Wales are unique, but we are proud members of the United Kingdom, an equal nation—we are a nation and a proud one. When we come to this next year, as the biggest party in Wales, we will get another debate—we hope it will again be in Government time, not in Back-Bench time—because the people and the Members of this House of Commons from Wales deserve it.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. People are not going to get equal time now. If we want to be fair to each other, can we do no more than nine minutes, to share out the time as best we can?
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will try very hard to do that.
Jessica Morden
I wanted to start my contribution by talking about steel, because this Friday, 23 March, President Trump’s 25% tariff on steel imported into the US will kick in, unless the Government and the EU can force some movement on the decision announced on 8 March.
I am very proud to represent a constituency with significant steelmaking: at Llanwern, where, among other things, we have Tata’s Zodiac plant, which produces high- quality finished steel for automotive customers, including Jaguar Land Rover and BMW; at Cogent Orb, a global supplier of electrical steels; and at Liberty Steel whose footprint is growing and growing in the UK and beyond and whose green steel vision could see major expansion in Newport in the future. The steel industry and steelworkers in my constituency have been through tough times, and the recovery we have seen is still fragile.
This move will have not only a direct impact on our exports, but the indirect impact of others countries’ displaced steel trying to find a home. We had a statement on this tariff last week, when the International Trade Secretary laid out both the Government’s approaches to the US and the work being done at an EU level as part of a unified response. Will the Secretary of State for Wales ensure that he is playing his part in speaking up for Welsh steel at the Cabinet table and that the Government do all they can to work with the EU on a response to this? May we have a report back from the International Trade Secretary on how he has got on this week in his discussions in the US?
On steel dumping, Opposition Members have not forgotten that it was the Conservative Government in 2016 who sought to block EU plans to impose tougher targets on Chinese steel imports. Clearly, this US decision is not about national security, and we ought to remind the US that when they last tried this in 2002 economists estimated that it cost the US economy 200,000 jobs. Clearly, we all do not want to see these tariffs imposed, but if they are, what practical help will the Government be offering the steel industry? For instance, our energy prices continue to be much higher than those of other countries and Ofgem’s targeted charging review could produce even higher charges, so will the Minister look at that specifically? The Government have been slow to act on some of the issues challenging the steel industry in the past, but we need robust action now.
The second issue I wish to raise is Severnside growth. Newport East is changing. Before the term “Severn bridge tolls” is consigned to history, I should acknowledge that the Government have acted after a strong and sustained local campaign about the impact of the tolls. [Interruption.] I had to get that in. That is good news for commuters in my constituency, local businesses and the economy of south-east Wales.
It was reported last week that Newport and Severnside are experiencing a housing boom, with many people choosing to move across the Severn. However, there are clearly challenges as well, and we will need councils, the Welsh Government and UK Government Ministers to work together to address them. For example, last week an estate agent in Caldicot said that a three-bedroom former council house in Caldicot would have been on the market last year for £150,000, but they are now on sale for around £230,000 or more. We will need more affordable housing and the accompanying infrastructure, and we need all levels of government to work together to address the challenges.
The Secretary of State has previously talked quite rightly about the importance of cross-border transport links. I reiterate to him that one important thing the Government could do for commuters in my constituency is to address the lack of capacity on cross-border Great Western services to Bristol and beyond, which is making it really difficult to access cross-border jobs. That is a daily complaint, so I would be grateful if the Secretary of State took that up.
There are lots of positive developments in our part of Wales, a few local examples of which are the excellent collaborative work of local authorities such as Newport through the city deal and the great western cities initiative and the excellent support from the Welsh Labour Government. We are looking forward to the potential of the metro. We have the semi-conductor cluster facility, the National Cyber Security Academy and the National Software Academy putting south-east Wales at the heart of the UK digital sector.
I attended a recruitment fair for CAF—the Secretary of State mentioned the company earlier—at Coleg Gwent today. CAF is a Spanish train manufacturer that is bringing 200 high-quality jobs to the constituency this year and 100 next year. We are really grateful for that. There are plans for the renovation of the Chartist tower, the city centre regeneration and the new international convention centre at the Celtic Manor, so there is plenty to be positive about, but in uncertain times, particularly in respect of Brexit we have to keep our eye on the ball. The Government have a role to play in that.
My hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), who is no longer in his place, mentioned Megan Lloyd George. Over the past few weeks, I have been at many events to celebrate International Women’s Day, and in this Vote 100 year this debate is an excellent opportunity for me to name just some of the excellent local women in my area who are leading the way in their fields. We have Pam Kelly, the deputy chief constable of Gwent police; Nicole Garnon, the editor of the South Wales Argus; Debbie Wilcox, the leader of Newport City Council; Susan Gwyer-Roberts, the excellent headteacher of Caldicot comprehensive, whom I wish well in her imminent retirement; and Trudi Marsden, the commercial supply chain director from Cogent Orb.
Those are all women of whom the famous Lady Rhondda from Llanwern, who was imprisoned in Usk for blowing up a post box for the suffragette cause, would be rightly proud. Lady Rhondda’s story is one of which we in Newport are proud. She fought a valiant campaign for women to take their seats in the House of Lords, was the first women president of the Institute of Directors and even survived the sinking of the Lusitania. Her story is rightly becoming more well-known this year and is the subject of an opera and a brilliant biography by Angela John. I wish to record our gratitude to her and acknowledge the fantastic leadership of the women I have mentioned. We have come a long way since Lady Rhondda’s times. There is still much more to do, but I know that the women who are leading the way in our communities today will act as an inspiration for young women in my constituency.
Stephen Kinnock
I agree absolutely that if the Government are serious about rebalancing the British economy, which is grossly skewed towards London and the south-east, that has to start with infrastructure investment. The difference between the per capita sums that are spent in London and the south-east and those that are spent in the rest of the country is a chasm that has to be filled.
When the Prime Minister famously declared in Wrexham that “nothing had changed”, she did so in front of a sign claiming that she had a plan for a “strong and prosperous future”. But building that future requires investment, not platitudes; action, not warm words. More than a year ago, the Hendry review—a Government- commissioned review, carried out by a former Conservative Minister, no less, reported back, calling for the Swansea bay tidal lagoon to get the go-ahead. It is a groundbreaking project that would power 150,000 Welsh homes for 120 years, creating thousands of jobs and using Port Talbot steel. Yet nothing has happened. Fourteen months on, and the Government have not even bothered to respond to the review. It is just like the sector deal for steel. For six months, a comprehensive plan for how we can turn our steel industry from one that is surviving into a sector that is thriving; a plan that would allow our communities to fulfil their potential, has sat on a shelf, gathering dust. The plan would mean an additional £1.5 billion of investment over the next five years, increasing production by 40%, creating 2,000 more jobs, training 200 more apprentices a year and increasing investment in R&D. It has the support of all the steel companies and unions, but to unlock that investment, the Government need to act to cut energy prices, which are, on average, 50% higher than those of our competitors.
The steelworkers of Port Talbot, Llanwern, Trostre and right across Wales have shown the lengths they will go to to save our steel industry, but when they agreed to changes in their pensions to save the industry the Government did nothing. They ignored our calls for changes to deemed consent that would have helped many to maximise their savings, and they did nothing when dodgy pension advisers—vultures—swept in to rip off our steelworkers.
Since the 2015 election, Labour MPs have called on Ministers over 700 times to stand up and support our steel industry. While the Business Secretary was on a jolly in Australia, I was in Mumbai with Community union fighting for the future of our steelworks and our industry. How much longer is this meant to continue? On the tidal lagoon and steel, we seem to have a Government incapable of making any decision, a Government frozen by their own ineptitude and shortcomings. While the Westminster Tories have stood by and done nothing, Welsh Labour has gone to the very limits of what it can do, announcing tens of millions of pounds of support for the Welsh steel industry and a plan for millions to support the lagoon. While the Tories stand by, Welsh Labour stands up.
Without more powers, however, there is only so much we can do. That is why powers must be given to Cardiff Bay, not hoarded by Westminster after Brexit. We have seen that we cannot trust the Tories with those powers. They promised electrification through to Swansea. It was in their manifesto. The then Welsh Secretary not only assured me, but promised when I challenged him at Question Time back in 2015 that we would have electrification. However, the day before learning of millions in new investment in London with Crossrail 2, we were told the electrification would be cancelled and that instead we would get hybrid diesel trains. As the Secretary of State experienced—it is a pity he is not in his place so I could remind him—those trains are not so reliable. After his finely balanced photo op with the Transport Secretary, the train broke down and started leaking on its inaugural journey.
The people of Wales deserve better than that. And we deserve better than a Government forcing a prison on Port Talbot, against the wishes of the community, in a totally inappropriate site. I agree that we should be investing in better and newer prisons, but they must be in appropriate sites, not right next to schools and retirement homes on marsh land with poor communications. It must be done with the consent of the local community. We need a Government who listen and a Government who will not try to build our future on the cheap. Since 2008, some £78 million has been cut from Neath Port Talbot’s annual budget and it is expected to find an additional £60 million over the next five years. If it manages to achieve that, it will be the equivalent of it scrapping the entire social services budget. It is a textbook example of the Tory strategy of the devolution of blame: Westminster cuts budgets and forces local councils to cut services or to break the law.
As the central Government budget cuts have grown deeper, it has been impossible to sustain many services, but in Aberavon we are a community and we stand together. Residents, service users and the council workforce have all played their part in meeting those savings. Council staff took a voluntary pay cut and the community banded together to take on responsibilities, volunteering their time and experience to keep facilities open, such as the libraries in Taibach, Briton Ferry and Cymmer. Volunteers have worked hard to keep open the Noddfa community centre in Glyncorrwg, the Gwynfi miners hall and the Afan Valley swimming pool and to take control of bowling greens and sports pitches. When the Government have stood by, our community has stood up, but they should not have to. Community action should be in addition to the state, not in place of it.
There are times when I worry for the future of our country. We have a Government short-changing the present: a Government who claim to know the cost of everything, but know the value of nothing, and a Government who seem incapable of taming the Brextremists, whose reckless, hard Brexit would devastate steel communities like those in my constituency. But then I remember the steelworkers willing to make personal sacrifices to save their industry, community and way of life, to save our steel. I remember people standing by the tidal lagoon, despite Government delay and incompetence. I remember the residents standing up for their services.
Above all, I think of the young people in my constituency, in particular the incredible young women of LEAD— the leadership, enterprise, activism and development programme—delivered by RECLAIM. Through LEAD, those 12 and 13-year-old girls from Aberavon are engaging with the issues that face our community and are gaining the confidence and skills, so that they too can be change makers, leading change and making a difference in Aberavon. The girls of PT Perfect have put together their manifesto of the issues that are important to them, such as homelessness, supporting local businesses and giving girls the opportunity to be seen and to be heard. They have campaigned tirelessly on those issues and have engaged actively with a range of community figures about them. Last month, they were in Parliament to mark the centenary of women receiving the vote. This month, they have been selected to appear on stage at the WOW—the Women of the World—festival at the South Bank.
It is for these girls and for the cohort of boys that will start the LEAD programme in a few weeks’ time and for the thousands of youngsters across Aberavon that we need the Westminster Government to change their attitude towards Wales. Labour understands the potential that we have in Wales and is willing to do what is required to allow us to fulfil that potential. The people of Wales deserve better. The people of Port Talbot deserve better and all in our country deserve better, because we have much to give and much to achieve, but to do that we need support from a Government that believe in Wales and will invest in our people.
Welsh Affairs
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(7 years, 8 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
We now come to the Backbench Business debate on Welsh Affairs. I remind hon. Members that the debate is very oversubscribed. If we can try to start off with five-minute speeches, I will try to give everybody equal time. If there are interventions, I will have to drop that straight away.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. The hon. Gentleman mentioned that I go to Wales; that is true, and I do like Trearddur Bay—I put on record that Ynys Môn is one of my favourite islands, and Holy Island as well.
I should also say that the Wales Rugby League came to Parliament this week to increase the profile of the Welsh rugby league and of this being the week for Wales. I want to make sure that everyone is aware of how important rugby league is, as well as rugby union.
I call David T. C. Davies, and introduce a five-minute limit on speeches.
Wales Bill
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(8 years, 2 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I know the Secretary of State has a lot to tell us, but I am sure he is aware that quite a lot of other Members would also like to speak. Will he bear that in mind?
Kevin Brennan
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. If we are under a severe time constraint, I wonder whether you could tell us how long we have for this debate?
Alun Cairns
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will of course make swift progress, as you have requested.
Amendment 61 seeks to devolve legislative competence to the Assembly over Welsh language broadcasting and other Welsh language media. The Welsh language is a critical part of our cultural heritage in Wales, and the Government’s continued commitment to Welsh language broadcasting is a key element of preserving the language. It is a source of great pride for me that S4C was established by a Conservative Government over 30 years ago, and I note the welcome from a number of stakeholders for the statements made by the BBC on the funding of the channel. This demonstrates our commitment to the Welsh language. The proposal is not recognised by stakeholders and operators in this field, and neither was it called for by the Silk commission or the St David’s day agreement.
Amendment 66 would remove the requirement for the Assembly to seek the consent of UK Government Ministers for an Act of the Assembly that would modify the functions of a reserved authority if such an Act related to a Welsh language function. It is obviously right that the Welsh Government should have the freedom to act in the interest of the Welsh language, but it is also right that when those policies or obligations extend to reserved matters, a UK Government Minister should also approve them. This means that the UK Government have the responsibility to see the Welsh language protected in reserved areas too. That is not the sole preserve of Members of the Welsh Assembly; we all have a responsibility towards the Welsh language.
Amendments 68 and 69 seek to provide that future Assembly legislation altering the specification or number of constituencies or regions, or the number of Members they return, would be subject to agreement by a majority of Assembly Members rather than a super-majority. I think the hon. Member for Newport West is being rather mischievous in tabling these proposals, particularly in the light of the news—which Members heard about today and which will be made public tomorrow—about the potential changes to constituencies that send Members to this place.
The Smith commission recommended a two-thirds majority for Scottish Parliament legislation seeking to change the franchise, the electoral system or the number of constituency or regional Members. This was provided for in the Scotland Act 2016 and the UK Government committed in the St David’s Day agreement to implement the same arrangements for Wales. I believe that I have explained clearly why I cannot support the Opposition amendments and, on that basis, I urge Opposition Members to withdraw them in due course.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
It may seem pretty good to some hon. Members, but we are drifting a little from where we should be. I know we are encompassing everything we need to, but I do not want to open up a full-blown debate on the House of Lords.
Stephen Doughty
I agree with many of the points my hon. Friend has made about the democratic deficit we could be heading towards. He said that the boundary review is to the Government’s advantage, and clearly that is their intention. But it is clearly not to the liking of all those on the Government Benches, as we saw from some of the points of order and comments coming from Conservative Back Benchers last week. Does he agree that the Government might well be stoking up trouble on their own side with this democratic atrocity?
Guto Bebb
I met the Welsh Language Commissioner in August. We have subsequently written to her, highlighting the fact that the concerns raised in relation to the operation of the 2011 Measure have no grounds. In other words, the 2011 Measure is not affected by the Bill. There will be an impact if a subsequent Welsh Language Measure is passed by the Welsh Assembly, but it does not affect the way in which the legislation—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. In fairness, I let the first one go on far too long. If you do not want to sum up at the end, do not try to sum up halfway through. Interventions have to be short. There are still another three speakers to come. I am very tolerant, but I am being tested.
Hywel Williams
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. This matter will probably be addressed again when the Bill goes to another place. Perhaps we could have some discussions with the Welsh Language Commissioner in the meantime, to see whether her concerns are still justified.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
New clause 1—Maritime and Coastguard Agency—
“(1) In section 1 of the Coastguard Act 1925 (transfer of the coastguard to the Board of Trade), at the end insert—
“(4) The Secretary of State must consult the Welsh Ministers about the strategic priorities of the Secretary of State in exercising functions under subsection (1) in relation to activities of Her Majesty’s Coastguard in Wales.
(5) In subsection (4) “Wales” has the same meaning as in the Government of Wales Act 2006.”
(2) In section 292 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 (general functions of the Secretary of State) at the end insert—
“(5) The Secretary of State must consult the Welsh Ministers about the strategic priorities of the Secretary of State in exercising functions under subsection (1) in relation to the safety standards of ships in Wales and protecting the health and safety of persons on them.
(6) In subsection (5) “Wales” has the same meaning as in the Government of Wales Act 2006.””
This new clause would amend the Coastguard Act 1925 and the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 so as to require the Secretary of State to consult the Welsh Ministers on the Secretary of State’s strategic priorities in relation to the activities of the Coastguard in Wales, including as regards health and safety on ships in Wales.
New clause 6—Tax on carriage of passengers by air—
“(1) In Part 4A of the Government of Wales Act 2006, after Chapter 4 insert—
“Chapter 5
Tax on carriage of passengers by air
116O Tax on carriage of passengers by air
(1) A tax charged on the carriage of passengers by air from airports in Wales is a devolved tax.
(2) Tax may not be charged in accordance with that provision on the carriage of passengers boarding aircraft before the date appointed under subsection (6).
(3) Chapter 4 of Part 1 of The Finance Act 1994 (air passenger duty) is amended as follows.
(4) In section 28(4) (a chargeable passenger is a passenger whose journey begins at an airport in the United Kingdom), for “England, Wales or Northern Ireland” substitute “England, Wales or Northern Ireland”.
(5) In section 31(4B) (exception for passengers departing from airports in designated region of the United Kingdom) for “England, Wales or Northern Ireland” substitute “England or Northern Ireland”.
(6) Subsections (3) to (5) have effect in relation to flights beginning on or after such date as the Treasury appoint by regulations made by statutory instrument.””
This new Clause would make air passenger duty a devolved tax in Wales, on the lines of section 17 of the Scotland Act 2016.
New clause 7—Assignment of VAT—
“(1) The Government of Wales Act 2006 is amended as follows.
(2) In section 117 (Welsh Consolidated Fund), after subsection (2) insert—
“(2A) The Secretary of State shall in accordance with section 64A pay into the Fund out of money provided by Parliament any amounts payable under that section.”
(3) After that section insert—
“117A Assignment of VAT
(1) Where there is an agreement between the Treasury and the Welsh Ministers for identifying an amount agreed to represent the standard rate VAT attributable to Wales for any period (“the agreed standard rate amount”), the amount described in subsection (3) is payable under this section in respect of that period.
(2) Where there is an agreement between the Treasury and the Welsh Ministers for identifying an amount agreed to represent the reduced rate VAT attributable to Wales for that period (“the agreed reduced rate amount”), the amount described in subsection (4) is payable under this section in respect of that period.
(3) The amount payable in accordance with subsection (1) is the amount obtained by multiplying the agreed standard rate amount by—
10
SR
where SR is the number of percentage points in the rate at which value added tax is charged under section 2(1) of the Value Added Tax Act 1994 for the period.
(4) The amount payable in accordance with subsection (2) is the amount obtained by multiplying the agreed reduced rate amount by—
2.5
RR
where RR is the number of percentage points in the rate at which value added tax is charged under section 29A(1) of the Value Added Tax Act 1994 for the period.
(5) The payment of those amounts under section 64(2A) is to be made in accordance with any agreement between the Treasury and the Welsh Ministers as to the time of the payment or otherwise.”
(4) The Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005 is amended as follows.
(5) In subsection (2) of section 18 (confidentiality: exceptions) omit “or” after paragraph (j), and after paragraph (k) insert “, or
(l) which is made in connection with (or with anything done with a view to) the making or implementation of an agreement referred to in section 117A(1) or (2) of the Government of Wales Act 2006 (assignment of VAT).”
(6) After that subsection insert—
“(2B) Information disclosed in reliance on subsection (2)(l) may not be further disclosed without the consent of the Commissioners (which may be general or specific).”
(7) In section 19 (wrongful disclosure) in subsections (1) and (8) after “18(1) or (2A)” insert “or (2B)”.””
This new Clause would allow the payment into the Welsh Consolidated Fund of half the receipts of Value Added Tax raised in Wales, on the lines of section 16 of the Scotland Act 2016.
New clause 8—Youth Justice—
“(1) Youth justice is a devolved matter.
(2) The Assembly may establish a non-departmental body accountable to the Assembly to be called Youth Justice Board Cymru to carry out all the existing functions of the Youth Justice Board in relation to youth justice in Wales.
(3) The Assembly may make provision in relation to youth justice in Wales concerning any of the subject matter of—
(a) sections 8 to16, 37 to 42, 47, 48, 65 to 79, 97 and 98 of the Criminal Disorder Act 1998, and
(b) the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999.”
This New Clause would establish a separate youth justice system for Wales, in line with the recommendations made by the Silk Commission.
New clause 9—Apprenticeship levy—
‘(1) In Part 4A of the Government of Wales Act 2006, after Chapter 4 insert—
“Chapter 5
Apprenticeship levy
116O Apprenticeship levy
(1) The Treasury must make separate provision in regulations for apprenticeship levy charged to a person in Wales with a pay bill.
(2) The Treasury must lay an annual report before the Assembly and the House of Commons on the amount of apprenticeship levy raised in each tax year from persons in Wales.
(3) The Treasury must consult the Assembly before setting a levy allowance or a relevant percentage applicable to persons in Wales.””
This New Clause paves the way for apprenticeship levy introduced in Part 6 of the Finance Bill 2016 to be a devolved tax.
New clause 11—Duty to keep the devolution of policing under review—
“(1) The Secretary of State and the Welsh Ministers must keep the functioning and operation of policing in Wales under review, including keeping under review the question of whether policing should be devolved to Wales.
(2) In exercising their duty in subsection (1) the Secretary of State and the Welsh Ministers must have regard to—
(a) divergence in policing as between England and Wales,
(b) the need to treat the Welsh and English languages on the basis of equality, and
(c) any other circumstances in Wales affecting the operation of policing, the maintenance of public order and the prevention and detection of crime.
(3) The Secretary of State and the Welsh Ministers may appoint a panel to advise them on the exercise of their functions in this section.
(4) The Secretary of State must make an annual report on policing in relation to Wales to the Welsh Ministers.
(5) The Welsh Ministers must lay the report before the Assembly.
(6) The Secretary of State must lay the report before both Houses of Parliament.”
This new clause would require the Secretary of State and Welsh Ministers to keep policing in Wales under review and, in particular, the need to devolve policing.
Amendment 70, in clause 36, page 29, line 18, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
This and related amendments would lift the limit on the Welsh Government’s legislative competence in the field of energy from 350 megawatts to 2000 megawatts.
Amendment 71, page 29, line 22, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Amendment 72, page 30, line 3, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Amendment 73, page 30, line 17, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Amendment 74, page 30, line 38, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Amendment 75, page 30, line 43, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Amendment 76, page 30, line 48, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Government amendment 23.
Amendment 77, in clause 38, page 32, line 17, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Amendment 78, page 32, line 18, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Government amendment 24.
Amendment 79, page 32, line 32, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Amendment 80, page 32, line 34, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Government amendments 25, 45 to 47, 50, 53, 54, 56 and 58.
Amendment 81, in schedule 6, page 111, line 7, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Amendment 82, page 111, line 10, leave out “350” and insert “2000”.
See amendment 70.
Government amendment 59.
Guto Bebb
I will speak first to the Government amendments in the group, before turning to the amendments tabled by Opposition Members. Most of the Government amendments deal with technical changes to the energy and environment provisions in the Bill; I will discuss those first.
Clause 36 delivers the St David’s Day agreement on the devolution of energy consents, giving the Assembly and Welsh Ministers a substantially greater degree of autonomy in determining the shape of devolved energy policy in Wales. We implemented the decentralisation of consenting responsibilities for all onshore wind projects earlier this year. The Bill will devolve to Wales specific consenting responsibility for all other electricity generating projects up to and including 350 MW in size.
It is important that the Welsh consenting authority has the ability to take measures to ensure the safety of offshore renewable energy installations and those who might come in contact with them. Discretionary powers already exist in the Energy Act 2004 for the Secretary of State to designate safety zones around such installations and to determine the conditions that will apply to the operation of such zones. New clause 5 extends those designation powers to Welsh Ministers in respect of offshore installations up to and including 350 MW in size in Welsh waters—that is, territorial waters up to the 12 nautical mile limit, and beyond, into the Welsh zone—and establishes appropriate arrangements for managing instances where an intended safety zone is likely to extend beyond Welsh waters.
Amendments 50 and 59 make consequential changes arising from new clause 5. Amendment 50 amends the 2004 Act to establish that regulations made under the new clause will be subject to the negative resolution procedure in the Welsh Assembly. Amendment 59 introduces tailored transitional provisions for the purposes of the offshore renewable energy safety zone provisions in the new clause. It provides that applications for the determination of safety zones received prior to the commencement of the devolution provisions will continue to be the responsibility of the Marine Management Organisation.
Government amendments 45, 46, 53 and 58 make consequential changes to ensure that the new consenting regime put in place by the Bill operates smoothly. The Bill devolves to Welsh Ministers the ability to use the consenting regime that already exists under section 36 of the Electricity Act 1989 for the purposes of granting consent for electricity generation projects up to and including 350 MW in scale in Welsh waters. We recognise that, in due course, Welsh Ministers may wish to modify and improve the offshore consenting regime and, in doing so, apply a consistent regime between territorial waters and the Welsh zone, where the Assembly does not exercise legislative competence.
Amendment 45 will give Welsh Ministers the ability, through a regulation-making power, to make modifications that can apply in territorial waters and the Welsh zone, avoiding any inconsistencies between the two areas and providing more clarity for developers. In establishing regulation-making powers to enable Welsh Ministers to modify and improve the offshore consenting regime in due course, we are keen not to encumber them with restrictions and requirements that might frustrate them in doing so. Amendment 46 therefore serves to disapply in Wales certain aspects of the 1989 Act, leaving Welsh Ministers with greater flexibility for the future.
Amendment 53 makes technical changes consequential on the new devolution boundary that will operate between Welsh Ministers and the Secretary of State once the devolution of electricity generation consenting powers in Welsh waters and marine licensing functions in the Welsh zone is in place. The changes cater for the fact that a marine licence might in future be deemed by Welsh Ministers to be part of a development consent order under the Planning Act 2008.
Amendment 58 introduces tailored transitional provisions for the purposes of the devolved electricity generation consenting provisions of the Bill. In effect, it provides that applications received prior to the commencement of the devolution provisions will continue to proceed to a final decision by the Secretary of State.
Amendments 23 and 24 make technical drafting changes to clause 38 to reflect the fact that, in the onshore context, devolved electricity generation consenting in Wales will be carried out within the regime of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. To avoid ambiguity, the inclusion of the concept of “planning permission” simply reflects the language of that Act.
Clause 42 provides Welsh Ministers with further executive responsibilities in the Welsh offshore region. However, we need to ensure that licensing functions that are reserved activities under the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 remain with the Secretary of State in the Welsh offshore region. Amendments 25 and 54 to 56 modify the 2009 Act to clarify the devolution boundary so that, for example, enforcement officers appointed using devolved powers have no powers to enforce part 4 of the 2009 Act, relating to petroleum production or exploration; the amendments also exclude the Welsh inshore and offshore regions from waters in respect of which the Marine Management Organisation exercises certain consenting and safety zone functions.
Amendment 56 modifies the 2009 Act to give Welsh Ministers powers to make regulations about the application procedure when they are both the marine licensing authority and the harbour order authority or generating station authority. Finally, amendment 47 simply removes an obsolete reference to Assembly measures.
The Government amendments are all sensible and necessary, and serve to deliver a clearer devolution boundary, one of the key aims of the Bill.
Wales Bill
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(8 years, 4 months ago)
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Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)
I beg to move amendment 118, page 2, line 28, after “7A)” insert
“and is not ancillary to another provision (whether in the Act or another enactment) that does not relate to a reserved matter”.
Clause 3 establishes the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales. This amendment makes clear that the Assembly has power to make provision touching upon reserved matters for the purpose of enforcing provisions in Assembly Acts that do not relate to reserved matters or otherwise making them effective.
The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment 148, page 2, line 33, leave out “subsection (2)(b) does” and insert
“subsections (2)(b) and (2)(c) do”.
The amendment restores the Assembly’s competence by enabling it to legislate in an ancillary way in relation to reserved matters.
Amendment 149, page 2, line 34, leave out from “provision” to end of line 6 on page 3 and insert
“which is within the Assembly’s legislative competence (or would be if it were included in an Act of the Assembly).”
The amendment restores the Assembly’s competence by enabling it to legislate in an ancillary way in relation to reserved matters.
Clause 3 stand part.
Amendment 2, in schedule 1, page 41, line 24, at end insert
“(that is, the property, rights and interests under the management of the Crown Estate Commissioners)
‘(3A) Sub-paragraph (1) does not affect the reservation by paragraph 1 of the requirements of section 90B(5) to (8).”
This amendment is consequential on new Clause (The Crown Estate) which would transfer executive and legislative competence of the Crown Estate in Wales to the Welsh Government and the National Assembly for Wales.
Amendment 6, page 41, line 30 , at end insert—
“2A Paragraph 1 does not reserve the consolidation in English and Welsh of the principal legislation delineating the powers of the National Assembly for Wales and the Welsh Government, including (but not limited to) the Government of Wales Act 2006, the Wales Act 2011 and the Wales Act 2016.”
This amendment would allow the National Assembly for Wales to consolidate in both English and Welsh the statutes bills containing the current constitutional settlement affecting Wales.
Amendment 155, page 42, line 20, leave out “prosecutors” and insert “the Crown Prosecution Service”.
The amendment clarifies the reservation so that “the Crown Prosecution Service” is reserved, rather than “prosecutors” more generally, as this could prohibit Assembly legislation enabling devolved authorities to prosecute, such as local authorities.
Amendment 119, page 42, line 26, leave out sub-paragraphs (2) and (3).
This amendment seeks to allow ancillary provision by removing the exception in paragraph 6(2) and the related definition in paragraph 6(3), so that reliance can be placed on the general power to make ancillary provision made clear by the amendment to clause 3 proposed by amendment 118.
Amendment 83, page 47, line 32, leave out Section B5.
This amendment removes the reservation of crime, public order and policing from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 122, page 48, line 9, leave out
“The subject matter of Parts 1 to 6”
and insert
“Anti-social behaviour injunctions under Part 1”.
This amendment is intended to narrow the reservation to the system of anti-social behaviour injunctions provided for by Part 1 of the 2014 Act.
Amendment 84, page 48, leave out line 11.
This amendment removes the reservation of dangerous dogs and dogs dangerously out of control from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 85, page 48, line 15, leave out Section B8.
This amendment removes the reservation of prostitution from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 86, page 48, line 24, leave out Section B11.
This amendment removes the reservation of the rehabilitation of offenders from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 117, page 49, leave out lines 5 to 10.
This amendment will remove the reservation of knives from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 123, page 49, leave out lines 24 to 29.
Paragraph 55 of the new Schedule 7A to be inserted into the Government of Wales Act 2006 by Schedule 1 would reserve the licensing of the provision of entertainment and late night refreshment from the Assembly’s legislative competence. Paragraph 56 would reserve the sale and supply of alcohol. This amendment removes both reservations.
Amendment 116, page 49, leave out lines 24 to 26.
This amendment will remove the reservation of the licensing of the provision of entertainment and late night refreshment from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 87, page 49, line 27, leave out Section B17.
This amendment removes the reservation of alcohol from the list of reserved powers.
Government amendments 53 to 58.
Amendment 88, page 55, line 5, leave out Section C15.
This amendment removes the reservation of Water and sewerage from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 89, page 55, line 28, leave out Section C17.
This amendment removes the reservation of Sunday trading from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 90, page 55, line 32, leave out Section D1.
This amendment removes the reservation of generation, transmission, distribution and supply of electricity from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 91, page 56, line 27, leave out Section D3.
This amendment removes the reservation of coal from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 92, page 57, line 2, leave out Section D5.
This amendment removes the reservation of heat and cooling from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 93, page 57, line 17, leave out Section D6.
This amendment removes the reservation of energy conservation from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 94, page 57, line 24, leave out Section E1.
This amendment removes the reservation of road transport from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 161, page 57, line 35, leave out from “roads” to the end of line 36 and insert—
“107A Speed limits
107B Road and traffic signs”
This amendment would make speed limits and road and traffic signs reserved matters.
Amendment 95, page 58, leave out line 36.
This amendment removes the reservation of railway services from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 96, page 59, leave out line 21.
This amendment is consequential on amendment 61 to Clause 28 which would remove the exception to the devolution of executive functions in relation to Welsh harbours of “reserved trust ports”.
Amendment 140, page 59, line 21, leave out “Reserved trust ports and”.
Section E3 of the new Schedule 7A to be inserted into the Government of Wales Act 2006 by Schedule 1 would reserve certain marine and waterway transport matters from the Assembly’s legislative competence. Paragraph 119 in that Section would reserve trust ports. This amendment removes this reservation.
Amendment 97, page 59, leave out line 23.
This amendment removes the reservation of coastguard services and maritime search and rescue from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 98, page 59, leave out line 24.
This amendment removes the reservation of hovercraft from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 141, page 59, line 28, leave out “, reserved trust ports or”.
This amendment is consequential upon amendment 140.
Amendment 142, page 59, line 37, leave out
“that is not a reserved trust port”.
This amendment is consequential upon amendment 140.
Amendment 143, page 60, leave out lines 4 to 5.
This amendment is consequential upon amendment 140.
Amendment 100, page 61, line 21, at end insert—
“Benefits entitlement to which, or the purposes of which, are the same as or similar to those of any of the following benefits—
(a) universal credit under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2012,
(b) jobseeker’s allowance (whether contributions-based or income based) under the Jobseekers Act 1995,
(c) employment and support allowance (whether contributory or income-related) under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007,
(d) income support under section 124 of the Social Security and Benefits Act 1992,
(e) housing benefit under section 130 of that Act,
(f) child tax credit and working tax credit under the Tax Credits Act 2002.
The benefits referred to in paragraphs (a) to (f) above are—
(a) in the case of income-based jobseeker’s allowance and income-related employment support allowance, those benefits as they existed on 28 April 2013 (the day before their abolition),
(b) in the case of the other benefits, those benefits as they existed on 28 May 2015.”
This amendment devolves all working age benefits to be replaced by Universal credit, and any benefit introduced to replace Universal credit.
Amendment 101, page 61, line 21, at end insert—
“Benefits entitlement to which, or the purposes of which, are the same as or similar to those of any of the following benefits—
(a) guardian’s allowance under section 77 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992,
(b) child benefit under Part 9 of that Act.”
This amendment devolves to the National Assembly for Wales, child benefit and Guardian’s allowance including conditionality and sanctions regimes.
Amendment 102, page 64, line 17, leave out Section H1.
This amendment would remove employment and industrial relations from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 108, page 64, line 17, leave out Section H1 and insert—
“H1 National Minimum Wage
The subject-matter of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998.”
This amendment would devolve employment rights and duties and industrial relations, except for the national minimum wage, to the National Assembly for Wales.
Amendment 124, page 64, line 44, at end insert—
“Terms and conditions of employment and industrial relations in Wales public authorities and services contracted out or otherwise procured by such authorities.”
Section H1 of the new Schedule 7A to be inserted into the Government of Wales Act 2006 by Schedule 1 would reserve employment rights and duties and industrial relations from Assembly’s legislative competence. This amendment provides an exception to ensure that the Assembly retains its legislative competence over terms and conditions of service for employees in devolved public services and industrial relations in such services.
Amendment 99, page 65, line 7, leave out Section H3.
This amendment would devolve employment support programmes to the National Assembly for Wales.
Amendment 109, page 65, line 24, leave out Section J1.
This amendment removes the reservation of abortion from the list of reserved powers, to bring Wales into line with Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Amendment 103, page 66, line 31, leave out Section J6.
This amendment would remove Health and Safety from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 105, page 67, line 14, leave out Section K1.
This amendment would remove broadcasting form the list of reserved powers
Amendment 107, page 67, line 17, at end insert—
“Exceptions
The regulation of:
(a) party political broadcasts in connection with elections that are within the legislative competence of the Assembly and
(b) referendum campaign broadcasts in connection with referendums held under Acts of the National Assembly for Wales.”
This amendment would devolve competence to the National Assembly for Wales in relation to party political broadcasts for Welsh and local elections.
Amendment 106, page 67, line 29, leave out Section K5.
This amendment would remove sports grounds from the list of reservations
Amendment 110, page 68, line 2, leave out Section L1.
This amendment removes justice from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 111, page 69, line 25, leave out Section L11.
This amendment removes the reservation of prisons and offender management from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 104, page 72, line 14, leave out Section N1.
This amendment would remove equal opportunities from the list of reserved powers
Amendment 112, page 73, line 24, leave out “bank holidays”.
This amendment, along with amendment 85, will devolve to the National Assembly for Wales, competence over bank holidays.
Amendment 113, page 73, line 27, at end insert “bank holidays”.
This amendment, along with amendment 112, will devolve to the National Assembly for Wales, competence over bank holidays.
Amendment 114, page 74, line 7, leave out Section N8.
This amendment will remove the reservation of the Children’s Commissioner from the list of reserved powers.
Amendment 115, page 74, line 11, leave out Section N9.
This amendment will remove the reservation of teacher’s pay and conditions from the list of reserved powers.
That schedule 1 be the First schedule to the Bill.
Amendment 120, in schedule 2, page 77, line 17, at end insert—
“1A Paragraph 1 does not apply to a modification that is ancillary to a provision made (whether by the Act in question or another enactment) which does not relate to reserved matters if it is a modification of the law on reserved matters in paragraph 6 or 7 of Schedule 7A.”
This amendment provides an exception for ancillary provision about certain justice matters that is not subject to a necessity test.
Amendment 121, page 77, line 18, leave out “a” and insert “any other”.
This amendment is consequential upon amendment 120.
Amendment 156, page 77, line 21, leave out from “matters” to end of line 26.
The amendment removes the necessity test in relation to the law on reserved matters.
Amendment 157, page 78, line 2, leave out paragraph 4 and insert—
“4 (1) A provision of an Act of the Assembly cannot make modifications of, or confer power by subordinate legislation to make modifications of, the criminal law. (See also paragraph 6 of Schedule 7A (single legal jurisdiction of England and Wales).)
(2) Sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to a modification that has a purpose (other than modification of the criminal law) which does not relate to a reserved matter.
(3) This paragraph applies to civil penalties as it applies to offences; and references in this paragraph to the criminal law are to be read accordingly).”
The amendment inserts a restriction so that the Assembly cannot modify criminal law unless it is for a purpose other than a reserved purpose. This would bring it into line with the private law restriction.
Amendment 34, page 79, line 29, leave out from “Assembly” to end of line 39.
The amendment removes the requirements relating to the composition and internal arrangements of the Assembly Committee with oversight of the Auditor General and/or their functions.
Amendment 35, page 80, line 41, at end insert—
“(i) subsection 120(1) as regards a modification that adds a person or body;”
The amendment will enable the Assembly to amend sections 120(1) of the 2006 Act which provide for ‘relevant persons’ which receive funding directly from the Welsh Consolidated Fund.”
Amendment 36, page 80, line 42, at end insert—
(iii) subsection 124(3) as regards a modification that adds a person or body;”
The amendment will enable the Assembly to amend sections 124(3) of the 2006 Act which provide for ‘relevant persons’ which receive funding directly from the Welsh Consolidated Fund.
Amendment 37, page 81, line 22, leave out from “taxes” to end of line 23.
The amendment removes the requirement for Secretary of State consent for the Assembly to amend the provisions of Part 5 of the 2006 Act which are not specifically referred to in paragraph 7(2)(d) and section 159, where the amendment is incidental to, or consequential on, a provision of an Act of the Assembly relating to budgetary procedures.
Amendment 128, page 82, line 30, leave out paragraph (c).
This amendment is consequential upon amendment 127.
Amendment 127, page 82, line 44, at end insert—
‘( ) Paragraph 8(1)(a) and (c) does not apply in relation to the Water Services Regulation Authority.”
This amendment would extend the existing exception for the Water Services Regulation Authority to include the matters that would otherwise be outside competence by virtue of paragraph 8(1)(c) of Schedule 7B.
Amendment 129, page 83, line 42, leave out paragraph (c).
This amendment removes the restriction in paragraph 11(1)(c) of the new Schedule 7B to the Government of Wales Act 2006 to be inserted by Schedule 2 to the Bill which would prevent the Assembly from legislating to remove or modify functions of a Minister of the Crown exercisable in relation to water and sewerage matters (including control of pollution) and matters relating to land drainage, flood risk management and coastal protection.
That schedule 2 be the Second schedule to the Bill.
New clause 7—Levies in respect of agriculture, taking wild game, aquaculture and fisheries, etc.—
“(1) In Schedule 7A to the Government of Wales Act 2006, section A1 is amended as follows.
(2) In the Exceptions, after the exception for devolved taxes insert—
““Levies in respect of agriculture, taking wild game, aquaculture and fisheries (including sea fisheries) or a related activity: their collection and management.”
(3) After the Exceptions insert—
“Interpretation
“agriculture” includes horticulture, fruit growing, seed growing, dairy farming and livestock breeding and keeping, and the use of land as grazing land, meadow land, osier land, market gardens and nursery grounds.
“aquaculture” includes the breeding, rearing or cultivation of fish (of any kind), seafood or aquatic organisms.
“related activity” means the production, processing, manufacture, marketing or distribution of—
(a) anything (including any creature alive or dead) produced or taken in the course of agriculture, taking wild game or aquaculture, or caught (by any means) in a fishery,
(b) any product which is derived to any substantial extent from anything so produced or caught.””
This new clause would give the National Assembly for Wales general legislative competence in respect of agricultural, aquacultural and fisheries levies.
New clause 10—Water Services Regulation Authority—
“(1) In section 27 of the Water Industry Act 1991 (general duty of the authority to keep matters under review)—
(a) in subsection (3), after “may” insert “subject to subsection (3A),”;
(b) after subsection (3), insert—
“(3A) The Secretary of State must obtain the consent of the Welsh Ministers before giving general directions under subsection (3) connected with—
(a) matters in relation to which functions are exercised by water or sewage undertakers whose area is wholly or mainly in Wales,
(b) licensed activities carried out by water supply licensees that use the supply system of a water undertaker whose area is wholly or mainly in Wales, or
(c) licensed activities carried on by sewerage licensees that use the sewerage system of a sewerage undertaker whose area is wholly or mainly in Wales.”;
(c) in subsection (4), in both places where it appears, after “Secretary of State” insert “, the Welsh Ministers”.
(2) In section 192B of the Water Industry Act 1991 (annual and other reports)—
(a) in subsection (1), after “Secretary of State” insert “and the Welsh Ministers”;
(b) in subsection (2)(d), for “as the Assembly” substitute “or activities in Wales as the Welsh Ministers”;
(c) in subsection (4), for “Assembly” substitute “Welsh Ministers”;
(d) after subsection (5) insert—
“(5A) The Welsh Ministers shall—
(a) lay a copy of each annual report before the Assembly; and
(b) arrange for the report to be published in such manner as they consider appropriate;
(c) in subsection (7), omit “the Assembly,””.
(3) In Schedule 1A to the Water Industry Act 1991 (the Water Services Regulation Authority)—
(a) in paragraph 1—
(i) in sub-paragraph (1), after “Secretary of State” insert “and the Welsh Ministers acting jointly”;
(ii) in sub-paragraph (2), omit paragraph (a);
(b) in paragraph 2(2), after “Secretary of State” insert “and the Welsh Ministers acting jointly”;
(c) in paragraph 3—
(i) in sub-paragraph (2), paragraph (a), after “Secretary of State” insert “and the Welsh Ministers”;
(ii) in sub-paragraph (2), paragraph (b), after “Secretary of State” insert “and the Welsh Ministers acting jointly”;
(iii) omit sub-paragraph (3);
(d) in paragraph 4—
(i) in sub-paragraph (1) and (2), in each place where it appears, after “Secretary of State” insert “and the Welsh Ministers acting jointly”;
(ii) in sub-paragraph (3), for “determines” substitute “and the Welsh Ministers acting jointly determine” and at the end insert “and the Welsh Ministers acting jointly”;
(e) in paragraph 9(3)(b), for “Assembly” substitute “Welsh Ministers”.”
This new clause would amend the Water Industry Act 1991 to confer functions relating to the Water Services Regulation Authority (OFWAT) (which exercises functions in England and Wales) onto the Welsh Ministers and it would adjust the functions of the Secretary of State to better reflect the current devolution of water matters to Wales.
Amendment 61, in clause 28, page 23, line 32, leave out from “Wales” to the end of line 33.
This amendment removes the exception to the devolution of executive functions in relation to Welsh harbours of “reserved trust ports”.
Amendment 134, page 23, line 38, leave out subsection (4).
Clause 28(4) provides an exception to the general transfer of functions by clause 28 so that where a function relates to two or more harbours the function is transferred only to the extent that both or all of the harbours to which it relates are wholly in Wales and are not reserved trust ports. This amendment is partly consequential upon amendment 61, but it would also ensure that the Welsh Ministers retain functions where one harbour is in Wales and the other is not.
Amendment 62, page 23, line 40, leave out “and are not reserved trust ports”.
See amendment 61.
Amendment 63, page 24, leave out line 6.
See amendment 61.
Clause 28 stand part.
Amendment 64, in clause 29, page 24, line 13, leave out
“, other than a reserved trust port,”
See amendment 61.
Amendment 65, page 24, line 17, leave out
“, other than reserved trust ports”.
See amendment 61.
Amendment 66, page 24, line 21, leave out
“or a reserved trust port”.
See amendment 61.
Amendment 67, page 24, line 25, leave out
“other than a reserved trust port”.
See amendment 61.
Amendment 68, page 24, line 26, leave out subsection (5).
See amendment 61.
Amendment 69, page 24, line 31, leave out
“other than a reserved trust port”
See amendment 61.
Clauses 29 to 31 stand part.
Amendment 137, in clause 32, page 25, leave out lines 34 to 39 and insert—
(a) will be wholly or partly in England or in waters adjacent to England up to the seaward limits of the territorial sea, and.””
This amendment is consequential upon amendment 61.
Amendment 71, page 25, line 39, leave out “a reserved trust port”.
See amendment 61.
Amendment 138, page 25, line 41, leave out from beginning to end of line 3 on page 26 and insert—
(a) the harbour facilities are wholly or partly in England or in waters adjacent to England up to the seaward limits of the territorial sea, and.””
This amendment is consequential upon amendment 61.
Amendment 72, page 26, line 2, leave out from “and” to end of line 3.
See amendment 61.
Amendment 73, page 26, line 4, leave out subsection (4).
See amendment 61.
Clauses 32 to 35 stand part.
New clause 1—The Crown Estate—
“After section 89 of the Government of Wales Act 2006, insert—
“89B The Crown Estate
(1) The Treasury may make a scheme transferring on the transfer date all the existing Welsh functions of the Crown Estate Commissioners (“the Commissioners”) to the Welsh Ministers or a person nominated by the Welsh Ministers (“the transferee”).
(2) The existing Welsh functions are the Commissioners’ functions relating to the part of the Crown Estate that, immediately before the transfer date, consists of—
(a) property, rights or interests in land in Wales, excluding property, rights or interests mentioned in subsection (3), and
(b) rights in relation to the Welsh zone.
(3) Where immediately before the transfer date part of the Crown Estate consists of property, rights or interests held by a limited partnership registered under the Limited Partnerships Act 1907, subsection (2)(a) excludes—
(a) the property, rights or interests, and
(b) any property, rights or interests in, or in a member of, a partner in the limited partnership.
(4) Functions relating to rights within subsection (2)(b) are to be treated for the purposes of this Act as exercisable in or as regards Wales.
(5) The property, rights and interests to which the existing Welsh functions relate must continue to be managed on behalf of the Crown.
(6) That does not prevent the disposal of property, rights or interests for the purposes of that management.
(7) Subsection (5) also applies to property, rights or interests acquired in the course of that management (except revenues to which section 1(1) of the Civil List Act 1952 applies or are to be paid into the Welsh Consolidated Fund).
(8) The property, rights and interests to which subsection (5) applies must be maintained as an estate in land or as estates in land managed separately (with any proportion of cash or investments that seems to the person managing the estate to be required for the discharge of functions relating to its management).
(9) The scheme may specify any property, rights or interests that appear to the Treasury to fall within subsection (2)(a) or (b), without prejudice to the functions transferred by the scheme.
(10) The scheme must provide for the transfer to the transferee of designated rights and liabilities of the Commissioners in connection with the functions transferred.
(11) The scheme must include provision to secure that the employment of any person in Crown employment (within the meaning of section 191 of the Employment Rights Act 1996) is not adversely affected by the transfer.
(12) The scheme must include such provision as the Treasury consider necessary or expedient—
(a) in the interests of defence or national security,
(b) in connection with access to land for the purposes of telecommunications, or with other matters falling within Section C9 in Part 2 of Schedule 1,
(c) for securing that the management of property, rights or interests to which subsection (5) applies does not conflict with the exploitation of resources falling within Section D2 in Part 2 of Schedule 1, or with other reserved matters in connection with their exploitation, and
(d) for securing consistency, in the interests of consumers, in the management of property, rights or interests to which subsection (5) applies and of property, rights or interests to which the Commissioners’ functions other than the existing Welsh functions relate, so far as it affects the transmission or distribution of electricity or the provision or use of electricity interconnectors.
(13) Any transfer by the scheme is subject to any provision under subsection (12).
(14) The scheme may include—
(a) incidental, supplemental and transitional provision,
(b) consequential provision, including provision amending an enactment, instrument or other document,
(c) provision conferring or imposing a function on any person including any successor of the transferee,
(d) provision for the creation of new rights or liabilities in relation to the functions transferred.
(15) On the transfer date, the existing Welsh functions and the designated rights and liabilities are transferred and vest in accordance with the scheme.
(16) A certificate by the Treasury that anything specified in the certificate has vested in any person by virtue of the scheme is conclusive evidence for all purposes.
(17) The Treasury may make a scheme under this section only with the agreement of the Welsh Ministers.
(18) The power to make a scheme under this section is exercisable by statutory instrument, a draft of which has been laid before, and approved by resolution of, the National Assembly for Wales.
(19) The power to amend the scheme is exercisable so as to provide for an amendment to have effect from the transfer date.
(20) If an order amends a scheme and does not contain provision—
(a) made by virtue of subsection (12) or (19) of that section, or
(b) adding to, replacing or omitting any part of the text of an Act,
then, instead of subsection (18), the instrument containing the legislation shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.
(21) For the purposes of the exercise on and after the transfer date of functions transferred by the scheme under this section, the Crown Estate Act 1961 applies in relation to the transferee as it applied immediately before that date to the Crown Estate Commissioners, with the following modifications—
(a) a reference to the Crown Estate is to be read as a reference to the property, rights and interests to which subsection (5) applies,
(b) the appropriate procedure for subordinate legislation is that no Minister of the Crown is to make the legislation unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by resolution of, each House of Parliament,
(c) a reference to the Treasury is to be read as a reference to the Welsh Ministers,
(d) a reference to the Comptroller and Auditor General is to be read as a reference to the Auditor General for Wales,
(e) a reference to Parliament or either House of Parliament is to be read as a reference to the National Assembly for Wales,
(f) the following do not apply—
(None) in section 1, subsections (1), (4) and (7),
(None) in section 2, subsections (1) and (2) and, if the Welsh Ministers are the transferee, the words in subsection (3) from “in relation thereto” to the end,
(None) in section 4, the words “with the consent of Her Majesty signified under the Royal Sign Manual”,
(None) sections 5, 7 and 8 and Schedule 1.
(22) Subsection (7) is subject to any provision made by Order in Council under subsection (9) or by any other enactment, including an enactment comprised in, or in an instrument made under, an Act of the National Assembly for Wales.
(23) Her Majesty may by Order in Council make such provision as She considers appropriate for or in connection with the exercise by the transferee under the scheme (subject to subsections (5) to (8)) of functions transferred by the scheme, including provision taking effect on or before the transfer date.
(24) An Order in Council under subsection (23) may in particular—
(a) establish a body, including a body that may be nominated under that section as the transferee,
(b) amend, repeal, revoke or otherwise modify an enactment, an Act or Measure of the National Assembly for Wales, or an instrument made under an enactment or Act or Measure of the National Assembly for Wales.
(25) The power to make an Order in Council under subsection (24) is exercisable by Welsh statutory instrument subject to the affirmative procedure.
(26) That power is to be regarded as being exercisable within devolved competence before the transfer date for the purposes of making provision consequential on legislation of, or scrutinised by, the National Assembly for Wales.
(27) In this section—
“designated” means specified in or determined in accordance with the scheme,
“the transfer date” means a date specified by the scheme as the date on which the scheme is to have effect.””
This new clause mirrors the Scotland Act 2016 in transferring executive and legislative competence of the Crown Estate in Wales to the Welsh Government and the National Assembly for Wales.
Paul Flynn
Since we met in Committee last week, we have had the wonderful celebration of the Wales team’s great achievement in the European cup, which is a matter of enormous pride to us as a nation. I was delighted to see the celebrations on Saturday, which were the biggest thing to happen in Cardiff since VE-day and VJ-day, which I am sure we both remember, Mr Hoyle, if not since when Cardiff won the FA cup in 1926. These events will bring many benefits for the people of Wales. We feel pride not just in the skills of our team, but in the behaviour of our fans.
I saw a performance by the Secretary of State on television yesterday in which he was dancing with a ball on his head and foot. It seemed to be a wordless message; I did not quite get the point. Given these uncertain political times, he might have been auditioning for a future job as a circus performer, but perhaps there was a subliminal message that had he been substituted for Aaron Ramsey, the result of the Portugal game might have been different. None the less, we have had a moment of great happiness for our country. It is a joy to think that the beautiful national language in our anthem was probably heard by more people than at any time in its 3,000-year history. That intrigued many people, and Wales has been given a much sharper identity that will bring about practical benefits.
The Bill’s is proceeding in a consensual way. A great political tumult is going on about our ears, in various forms, but here is an oasis of calm and good sense, as all parties support a beneficial Bill that will give Wales further devolution. Progress on that is slow and endless, but the Bill is a step forward.
I will speak first to amendments 118 and 119. Amendment 118, together with consequential amendments to paragraph 6 of proposed new section 7A to the Government of Wales Act 2006 under schedule 1, and to paragraph 1 of proposed new schedule 7B under schedule 2, take us back to issues flowing from the Government’s insistence on retaining the single legal jurisdiction of England and Wales. In accepting that position, as we must following last Tuesday’s Division, we must now ensure that the Assembly has, within the single jurisdiction, powers that enable its legislation to be enforceable and effective, which is what amendment 118 would achieve.
In our view, the Bill as drafted would restrict the Assembly’s legislative competence inappropriately and reverse the competence given to the Assembly under the 2006 Act, section 108(5) of which allows the Assembly to make what might be termed “ancillary” provisions. At present, the Assembly has competence to legislate on matters relating to one or more of the listed subjects in part 1 of schedule 7 to the 2006 Act. That Act also provides that the Assembly has powers to make provision about non-devolved matters when that is done to make a devolved provision effective or to enforce a provision if it is otherwise consequential or incidental to the devolved provision. My understanding is that this is not the UK Government’s intention, meaning that our old friend unintentional consequences might well apply.
I am sure that the Government do not, in common with all parties in the House, intend to prevent the Assembly from making provision to enforce or to make effective devolved legislation. However, the Bill currently either prevents that, or is unclear about whether the Assembly will have the same ability as at present. Under the reserved power model, an Assembly Act will be outside competence if it relates to a reserved matter in proposed new schedule 7A. There is no express equivalent in the Bill to section 108(5) of the 2006 Act. Provisions relating to reserved matters will be outside competence and will not be law even if the intent of the provision in question is confined to making legislation effective or to enforce it. Other provisions are designed to address this issue, but Welsh Government officials have provided the Wales Office with several examples of when the Bill as drafted would have prevented uncontentious provisions in Assembly Acts from being included in that legislation.
These are not hypothetical problems. We have a strange history of the consequences of legislation. We have sometimes had legislation that was cumbersome and slow, while we have also seen judge-driven legislation involving Acts that were subject to adjudication by people outside Wales. Unless the Bill is amended as we propose, the Assembly’s ability to make its legislation enforceable and effective will be inappropriately constrained, and I do not believe that that is the Secretary of State’s intention. We shall not press the amendments to a Division, but I urge the Secretary of State to give very careful consideration to the issues that they raise, to instruct his officials to discuss them further with Welsh Government officials and to table amendments on Report that reflect an agreed position on this important issue.
Let me mention some of the general principles that should apply to our consideration of the schedule of reserved matters. In a reserved power model, it is for the UK Government to explain why the relevant subject matter must be reserved to the centre—to the UK Parliament and Government—for decision. Much of the schedule’s content is uncontroversial. It is common ground that matters such as foreign affairs, the armed forces and the UK’s security system should be determined at a UK level. On other matters, however, the situation is more contested. If reservations affect the Assembly’s existing competence, it is vital that the case for them is made explicitly and that the drafting of the relevant provision is precise and specific. That is essential to protect the Assembly’s ability to legislate coherently and within its competence.
Amendment 83 deals with policing, which is an interesting subject area in which change is desirable. The UK Government’s own Silk commission recommended devolution of policing on the basis that it is a public service that is a particular concern to people in their daily lives, and therefore similar to health, education and the fire service. That conclusion was reached in the light of extensive evidence, including from professional police bodies, chief constables and police and crime commissioners. I understand that the four present PCCs in Wales are in favour of such a change, and opinion polls show clear public support for it.
Silk noted that devolution would improve accountability by aligning police responsibility with police funding, much of which already comes from devolved sources. In short, he argued that devolution would allow crime and the causes of crime to be tackled holistically under the overall policy framework of the Welsh Government. As Silk noted, present arrangements are “complex”, “incoherent” and “lack transparency”.
Policing is the only major front-line public service that is not at present the responsibility of the devolved institutions in Wales. That anomalous position means that it is significantly more difficult to achieve advantages of collaboration with other blue light services, which is strongly advocated for England in current Government policy, as well as with other relevant public services. Deleting the reservation would address that anomaly, but responsibility for counter-terrorism activity should not be devolved—I would continue to argue that it should be reserved under paragraph 31 of new schedule 7A. The Assembly would be able to legislate in respect of bodies such as the National Crime Agency and the British Transport police only with the consent of UK Ministers, because they are “public authorities” within the meaning of paragraph 8 of new schedule 7B, which restricts the Assembly’s powers in respect of such bodies.
After reflecting on the Silk commission’s recommendations, what is envisaged is the devolution of responsibilities predominantly for local policing. The key point is that devolution would enable police services in Wales to work even more closely alongside other devolved public bodies, with greater opportunities to secure improved community safety and crime prevention.
In England—this is a fine example on which we can base our recommendations—the UK Government are pushing forward the devolution of policing and justice powers with the greatest enthusiasm. Only last week, it was reported that the Minister responsible for prisons—the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous)—declared himself as
“a firm fan of devolution”.
Having signed over new powers to the mayor of Greater Manchester, he hailed
“a new dawn for the justice system”
that is
“run by locals, for locals”
and is an effective justice system that meets the needs of local people. However, in a reserved power model of devolution for Wales, there is an overriding imperative to keep the control of these matters in Whitehall. Where is the consistency and fair treatment for Wales? If something is good enough for Manchester, surely it is good enough for Wales.
Amendment 122 deals with antisocial behaviour. Whatever the outcome on policing, it is imperative that we do not reduce the Assembly’s existing competence for dealing with antisocial behaviour in devolved contexts. That is why there needs to be an amendment to paragraph 41 of new schedule 7A, which relates to antisocial behaviour. As drafted, the Bill would reserve matters that are currently within the Assembly’s legislative competence, such as antisocial behavioural matters relating to housing or nuisance. That would represent a significant reduction of the Assembly’s existing competence, so the Welsh Government amendment would narrow the reservation to more closely reflect the current situation.
Amendment 123 is on the vexed subject of alcohol. As drafted, the Bill would reserve the sale and supply of alcohol, and the licensing of provision of entertainment and late-night refreshment. The amendment would delete the reservations and allow the Assembly to legislate on those matters.
Alcohol misuse is a major public health issue and a principal cause of preventable death and illness in Wales. It can lead to a great many health and social harm problems, in particular for a significant minority of addicts and people who drink to excess for other reasons. Given those impacts and the direct link with devolved responsibility for public health and the NHS, there is a pressing need to tackle alcohol misuse, so the Assembly and Welsh Government must have the full range of tools at their disposal. Policies that control the way in which alcohol is sold and supplied are widely acknowledged to be among the most effective mechanisms for tackling alcohol-related harms. Regulating the availability of alcohol is an important way to reduce the harmful use of alcohol, particularly by tackling easy access to alcohol by vulnerable and high-risk groups. Licensing controls are an essential tool which must form part of the Welsh Government’s strategy to tackle alcohol- related abuse. The reservations place unnecessary and inappropriate constraints on action to tackle alcohol availability in Wales. Those powers are devolved in Scotland and in Northern Ireland, where similar public health challenges were faced, and they should also be devolved in Wales.