Welsh Affairs

David T C Davies Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

As we have said, we will respond as quickly as we possibly can. However, the hon. Lady will recognise that this is quite a dynamic environment. The price of renewable energy has plummeted over that period and the numbers from the tidal lagoon company have also changed, so perhaps the delay will prove to bring better value for money for the taxpayer. As I have said, the current proposal is twice as expensive as Hinkley nuclear power station, and I am sure the hon. Lady wants to see good value for money for the taxpayer, whatever the outcome.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that if Opposition Members were serious about getting the project off the ground, they would recommend to the First Minister of Wales that he accept the invitation to appear before the Welsh Affairs Committee and explain the apparent gift of £200 million that he briefed the Western Mail on, instead of hiding behind the excuse that he will not come for some reason?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for highlighting the need for hard negotiations and discussions about what the facts are. Many claims have been made, but ultimately it comes down to whether the case provides value for money. As I have said many times, we must ensure that large-scale projects provide value for money for taxpayers and consumers. My hon. Friend will remember the very difficult decision the Welsh Government faced when they decided to cancel the Circuit of Wales in Blaenau Gwent. Despite wanting to do something, they knew ultimately that it was not good value for money, as the numbers proved.

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[Christina Rees]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, with which I agree. Sometimes, I think the Government just do not get it.

[David T. C. Davies]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Christina Rees]

Very tentatively.

[David T. C. Davies]

I am grateful. Let me agree with the point that the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) made and emphasise the importance of politicians of all parties respecting the results of referendums.

[Christina Rees]

And we do, and I will see the hon. Gentleman in the gym in the morning.

The law derived from the full Welsh Government Bill was introduced in the Welsh Assembly on 7 March 2018, but the Welsh Government are clear this is not their preferred option. What the Bill categorically does not do is to block or frustrate Brexit. The Welsh Labour Government respect and accept the outcome of the EU referendum. However, the vote to leave the EU was not a vote to reverse devolution. The current devolution settlement in Wales has been backed by two referendums, in 1997 and in 2011. Brexit is not an excuse to ignore those votes.

I repeat that serious matters confront us. I doubt there has been a St David’s day since the second world war when there was so much at stake for Wales. The future of whole sectors of industry, as well as the ability of families simply to get by, hangs in the balance. The people of Wales have a right to see a UK Government acting in their best interests: protecting their jobs and investing in the public services they rely on and the infrastructure we desperately need to secure Wales’s future.

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[Mr Jones]

That, too, is one of the paradoxes of devolution. Many hon. Members find their constituencies served by hospitals on the Welsh side of the border and, because of devolution, they are unable to make representations on behalf of their constituents.

[David T. C. Davies]

My right hon. Friend makes the point very well indeed. A lot of people living in the Forest of Dean are served by the Welsh NHS and are taking legal action because they are desperate to be served by Jeremy Hunt’s Conservative-run NHS in England. That is absolutely true. They have no say over what Labour Ministers are doing, despite being inflicted with the Welsh Labour-run NHS.

[Mr Jones]

I do believe that my hon. Friend, in his own manner, is agreeing with what I have just said, but I am straying from the subject I want to discuss—improving the synergy between north Wales and the north-west of England.

One of the most important areas in which that can be achieved is transport, specifically rail transport. It is a sad fact that the rail network in north Wales is, frankly, not up to dealing with the employment conditions that prevail on both sides of the border. We have previously debated the Wrexham to Bidston railway line in the House. That line is incredibly important to the people of north-east Wales, and its importance is growing, as it now links the two enterprise zones at Deeside and Wirral Waters. As north Wales Members will know, the sad fact is that if someone wants to travel from Liverpool to Wrexham, they have to get off the train at Bidston. That is an incredible inconvenience—actually, it is more than an inconvenience, as it is holding back the north Wales and north-west economy—so I was very pleased when we recently had the launch in this House of the “West and Wales Strategic Rail Prospectus”, which was attended by the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew). I was also pleased that it was attended by the Secretary of State for Transport.

It is important that we aim for a much more closely integrated transport system in that part of the world. I believe that the prospectus that was put forward at the meeting earlier this month in the House lays out a very sensible blueprint for travel in north Wales. Furthermore, it provides connectivity to the new HS2 hub that will be constructed at Crewe. My plea to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is that he works very hard with the Secretary of State for Transport on pursuing the vision of the prospectus and achieving something that will provide for the sort of rail transport that we require in north Wales.

I wish to touch on two other issues, one of which has been raised by the hon. Member for Neath: the question of the Swansea tidal lagoon. I fully accept my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State’s point about the importance of achieving value for money in a project of this scale. I also appreciate that it will be an expensive development, but it is fair to say that the technology that could be developed if the lagoon were constructed would give the United Kingdom, and Wales in particular, a world lead. We need an answer fairly soon on when the Government will respond to the recommendations of the Hendry report. The lagoon not only would provide a hugely important facility in terms of the generation of clean energy in Swansea, but would be a pathfinder for similar developments right around the western coast of Britain, not least in my constituency and that of the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane), where a proposal for a lagoon with five times the generating capacity of Swansea is being considered. It would be possible to work this up into something that would be genuinely valuable for the United Kingdom, and I really hope that the Government will not miss this opportunity.

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[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady). I did not agree with much he said, except for his comments about real ale, but I support the fact that all Members of this Parliament can be proud to be part of one great United Kingdom and be welcome to speak, which is why I am proud to be wearing my Union Jack cufflinks today.

I am grateful to all members of the Welsh Affairs Committee, past and present, not least because we all have worked diligently to reach consensus on a range of issues. Over the past few years we have examined many topics, from defence and the care of veterans in Wales to agriculture, transport, which I will return to, and the state of the economy. I have noticed that members of the Committee always get promoted extremely quickly, and it is remarkable how many are now sitting on the various parties’ Front Benches, with the exception of myself, of course, but—who knows?—the call may one day come.

Labour Members have raised their concern that they cannot discuss certain issues that affect their constituents because they are now dealt with only by English MPs. I recognise their concern, but of course that has come about because of the devolution settlement that they championed. Nobody can have their cake and eat it in a devolved fashion: they cannot, on the one hand, stop MPs in London having any say over what happens to the health service or education in Wales and, on the other hand, have that influence over what happens in England.

I share the concern, however: many constituents in the Forest of Dean have to have their primary health services delivered by Welsh GPs and are taking court action because they are unhappy with the state of the health service in Wales. They are taking court action because they want to be treated by Jeremy Hunt’s national health service. [Interruption.] Hon. Members may boo and yah, but it is a fact. They all have smartphones—they can whip them out and have a look themselves if they wish to. The reality is that where people have the choice of being treated by a Conservative-run NHS in England or a Labour-run NHS in Wales, they want to be treated by the NHS in England. It is not in the least bit surprising, because in Wales we wait longer for ambulances and in accident and emergency units; we wait much longer for surgery—26 weeks as opposed to 18 weeks; and we do not have the same access to cancer drugs.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

The hon. Gentleman makes a disingenuous argument. It is not a matter of being treated in England; the problem in Wales is with being treated by a health service run by the Labour party.

[David T. C. Davies]

That is actually a very fair point, and it cannot be put down to money either, because more money is spent per head on the population in Wales than in England. Of course, Members of all Opposition parties want to talk about what they call austerity. I call it trying to balance the books. I call it a recognition that, when we have a debt of £1.7 trillion and are adding to that by borrowing £50 billion a year, the Government are quite right to get spending under control. They have done so very successfully and have reduced the deficit from £100 billion a year in 2010 to just £50 billion a year now. Every time they suggest spending reductions in any area, of course everyone jumps up and complains, and then when it turns out that the national debt has grown a little, hon. Members want to complain about that as well.

[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Gentleman share with the House how many women in his constituency are affected by the 1950s pension debacle and what kind of representations he has made on behalf of those women, who I am sure would be interested to hear him supporting his Government’s stance on cuts when they are absolutely destitute?

[David T. C. Davies]

It is a bit unfair to suggest that anyone is destitute, but the hon. Lady is right: many women have been affected by the changes to pension law. They say they were not contacted by the previous Labour Government, who were in power for 13 years, when many of these changes we introduced. I do not know whether Labour Ministers contacted them—there are different sides to the story—but certainly many people have been affected. But of course we do not have unlimited money. If she wants to offer pensions to everyone—of course, it would have to be for men and women under the changes to EU legislation—she has a responsibility to say how she would fund the money. Would it be through extra taxes, even though they probably would not raise any extra money, or through extra borrowing or cuts to other Departments? We would all be interested to hear how these promises would be funded.

[Stephen Doughty]

The hon. Gentleman is talking about borrowing. I wonder what he made of Treasury analysis showing that, as a result of the Brexit scenarios that the Government are pursuing, public sector borrowing will go up massively over the next 15 years, completely wiping out any of the claims that were made on the side of that infamous red bus.

[David T. C. Davies]

I look forward to seeing whether those predictions are any more accurate than the many other predictions that have been proved completely inaccurate since the referendum.

Let me return to matters that we are not allowed to discuss in the Welsh Affairs Committee. I should very much like to have the right to discuss education, for instance.

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman is right: his own party’s Government have now put aside an extra £39 billion for the Brexit divorce bill. Did he advertise that fact when he was campaigning for us to leave the European Union?

[David T. C. Davies]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we were paying about £18 billion a year to be a member of the European Union. Even if the £39 billion Brexit divorce bill figure is correct—I am prepared to accept that it is—it represents about two years’ membership of the European Union. If that is the price that we have to pay for a good deal, and if other Members support it, I am willing to support it as well. I would probably be willing to walk away and, effectively, say “Get stuffed”, but I am a man who likes to work with other people, and if I can encourage other Members to get behind the Government and compromise a little bit, I am all for doing that.



Let me now return to education for a minute. I think it very important for members of the Welsh Affairs Committee, and Welsh MPs in general, to consider the state of education in Wales. We often hear comparisons between the Welsh and the English national health services, but I do not think we hear enough comparisons between the Welsh and the English education systems. I want to know why my children, who attend state schools in Wales, have less chance statistically of getting good GCSE results and A-level results, less chance of getting into the best universities, and less chance of getting first-class degrees, and I want to know whether Labour Members agree with the judgment of the former Labour Education Minister in Wales who announced that it was time for the Labour Government in Wales to apologise to learners and parents for the mess that they had made of education.

[Chris Elmore]

I think I have raised this issue with the hon. Gentleman before. When his own county’s education services were put into special measures while being run by a Conservative administration, he said nothing. I will tell him what is good about the Welsh education system: record investment in school buildings, record GCSE results, record A-level results, and some of the best universities in the United Kingdom, if not the world.

The hon. Gentleman is doing a great disservice to the people of Wales and the people of Monmouth. He needs to get his facts straight rather than making misleading statements on the Floor of the House.

[David T. C. Davies]

I am certainly not doing—

[Chris Elmore]

I got carried away, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise, and I withdraw those words.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Thank you very much.

[David T. C. Davies]

I welcome the fact that everyone feels passionately about this issue, but I suggest that the hon. Gentleman look at what his own Labour Education Minister is saying about Labour’s education record in Wales.

[Chris Elmore]

rose—

[David T. C. Davies]

I have been given only 10 minutes, and I would like to move on to the subject of Brexit, which, after all, is a matter of some interest to all of us at the moment.

I commend my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union for the enormous amount of extra power that he will give the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament, although, if I were anything less than a man who likes compromise, I would be slightly worried about it. I was on the losing side of a referendum in 1999. I remember what it was like to wake up the next day and realise that we had lost, and to have a great discussion about what to do next. What we decided to do was respect the fact that the people of Wales had voted for a Welsh Assembly, albeit by a very narrow majority, and with a much smaller turnout than the one that we saw for the Brexit referendum. We in the Conservative party decided—and I think that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales was among the people who were thinking about this—that the thing to do was simply to respect the decision and get on with it.

We did not say, “Well, there was only a small turnout and a tiny majority, so let us have a second referendum.” We did not say, “Let us see if we can find some dubious hedge fund managers and challenge the whole thing in the courts on a technicality.” We did not go off to the House of Lords and say, “Let us see if we can delay the whole thing”, or whip up a load of scare stories about what it was likely to do to the economy—although I must admit that the scare stories that remainers are coming out with are not particularly good. One minute they say that Brexit will crash the economy, and the next minute they are complaining that there will not be enough people to fill the thousands of job vacancies that are currently available as a result of the good handling of the economy by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State.

We did not do any of that. We recognised the fact that the people of Wales had voted in a certain direction, and we respected that. We respected devolution and we respect it now, and we respect the voice of the Welsh public, who voted overwhelmingly to leave the European Union. I commend my right hon. Friend and the Government for listening to the people of Wales. Ours is the only political party that is willing to deliver the Brexit for which those people voted.